Kappelevtsy take Kazan

100 years ago, 6-7 August 1918, the troops of the People’s Army KOMUch (Committee of the members of the All-Russian Constituent Assembly) under the command of a talented military leader Vladimir Kappel and the Czechoslovakians who helped them seized Kazan.

General situation on the Eastern Front

The uprising of the Czechoslovak Corps in May 1918 in the Volga region, the Urals, Siberia and the Far East created a favorable situation for the elimination of Soviet power, the formation of anti-Soviet governments and the beginning of large-scale armed actions of the White Guard troops against the Reds in the east of the country. With the support of Czech troops in May - June, the Soviet government was overthrown in Novonikolaevsk, Penza, Syzran, Tomsk, Kurgan, Omsk, Samara and Krasnoyarsk.

8 June 1918 year in the Samara-liberated Social Revolutionaries by the Social Revolutionaries was established Committee of the Constituent Assembly (KOMUCH, Komuch). He declared himself a temporary authority, which, according to the plan of its creators, had spread to the whole territory of Russia, transfer the administration of the country to the legally elected Constituent Assembly. Komuch created his own armed forces - the People's Army. At the same time, on June 23, the Provisional Siberian Government was formed in Omsk.

He led the troops Komucha lieutenant colonel V. O. Kappel. Under his command, a white squadron in the middle of June 1918 took Syzran, Stavropol Volzhsky. 21 July Kappel took Simbirsk, defeating the superior forces of the city’s defensive Soviet commander GD Guy, for which he was promoted to colonel and appointed commander of the People’s Army. In July, the White and Czechoslovak detachments also occupied Ufa (July 1918), while the Czechs under the command of Lieutenant Colonel Wojciechowski, July 5, also took Yekaterinburg. To the south of Samara, a detachment of Lieutenant Colonel F. Makhin took Khvalynsk and approached Volsk. The Ural and Orenburg Cossack troops joined the counter-revolutionary forces of the Volga region.

As a result, by the beginning of August 1918, the “territory of the Constituent Assembly” extended from west to east on the 750 versts (from Syzran to Zlatoust), from north to south - on the 500 versts (from Simbirsk to Volsk). In addition to Samara, Syzran, Simbirsk and Stavropol-Volzhsky, he also controlled Sengiley, Bugulma, Buguruslan, Belebey, Buzuluk, Birsk, Ufa.

Soviet Command Actions

The critical situation in the east of Russia forced the Soviet government to turn all its attention to the Eastern Front. The Eastern Front, created by 13 on June 1918, was partially demoralized and temporarily lost control during the insurrection of Commander-in-Chief M. Muravyov. For a while the troops remained without definite leadership, while the enemy was actively developing the offensive. On July 11, I.I. Vatsetis was appointed the new front commander. During World War II, he was promoted to colonel, commander of the 5-th Zemgale rifle regiment as part of the 12-th army. After the October Revolution, he went over to the side of the Bolsheviks, from April 1918 of the year - the commander of the Latvian Rifle Division. One of the leaders of the suppression of the Left Socialist-Revolutionary insurrection in Moscow in July 1918 by Latvian riflemen.

The Soviet command did its best to restore order on the Eastern Front. Reinforcement went wide on the Eastern Front from central Russia. So, many centers of formation, such as Kozlov, Kaluga and Nizhny Novgorod, gave their first ready formations to the Eastern Front. True, the fighting qualities of these troops, their size and organization, left much to be desired. These were still mostly volunteer units, and they acted in the spirit of partisan units. Therefore, the Red Army could not immediately give a decisive rebuff to the enemy.

28 July 1918, Vatsetis reported to military commissar Trotsky: "I decided to strike a decisive blow to the enemy in the near future and throw him from the Volga to the east." 1-I army received the task of restraining the enemy and prevent his breakthrough to the west of the line Syzran - Simbirsk. In the future, the army at the right time had to go on the offensive and throw the enemy into the Volga. 4-I army had to take Khvalynsk, and then attack on the Samara direction. 3-I army received the task to take Yekaterinburg and then act on the front Chelyabinsk - Zlatoust. The 2 Army set the task of taking Ufa and seizing the Chishmy hub station, advancing on Bugulma in one group. 5-I army, which was created in the area of ​​Kazan, was to go on a decisive offensive on the Simbirsk front - Bryandino station.

Thus, the essence of the Vatsetis plan was to seize the Czechoslovak group and the People's Army, operating on the Simbirsk-Syzran front, with a double blow to the left bank of the Volga: from the north, from Chistopol to Simbirsk, and from the south, from Urbach to Samara. Three armies (1-i, 4-i and 5-i) were to solve this task, the other two armies (2-i and 3-i) were to deliver auxiliary attacks on Ufa and Yekaterinburg. However, to fulfill this plan, it was necessary to concentrate large forces, especially on the right flank of the Eastern Front, which could be done later.

Red troops tried to attack, but because of the insignificance of forces and poor organization, low discipline of a number of units, without success. Thus, the 2 Army for the operations in the area of ​​Bugulma was able to identify a small detachment - about 1 thousand bayonets, 140 sabers, 17 machine guns, 6 guns. This detachment slowly moved to Bugulma, occupied by a company of Czechoslovak legionaries and the emerging white battalion, and on August 5 attacked her. The enemy not only fought off the attack, but also launched an offensive, forcing the Reds to flee. The remaining troops of the 2 Army also did not fulfill their tasks. Some parts were cast on the road and came back; others did not want to speak at all. The troops of the 3 Army went out to Ekaterinburg and started a battle for the outskirts of the city. However, the instability of one of its divisions forced the Reds to roll back. 5-I army had so insignificant strength that could not even successfully keep the defense.

Eastern Front Commander I. Vatsetis with adjutant in 1918. Front headquarters

White Command Strategy

The White Command chose Yekaterinburg - Perm - Vyatka for the main operational direction, seeking to establish a connection with the Entente troops, advancing from the White Sea. Apparently, this plan came from the Entente - the British representative in Siberia, General Knox. This idea was supported by the command of the Czechoslovak Corps. General Gaida wanted to avoid a long journey to Vladivostok, and then around the world, and to conduct the Czechoslovak echelons in a shorter way through Perm, Vyatka, Vologda and Arkhangelsk. As a result, this plan was carried out throughout the summer and winter campaign 1918 - 1919. Entente powers in the future, already in the summer of 1919, pressed on the command of the white Siberian army, so that it continued to develop an offensive in the Perm direction.

This plan was in the interests of the Entente and the Czechs, who did not seek to be on the front lines of the war in Russia. The masters of the West sought to kindle the flames of a fratricidal war in Russia, and to get all the benefits from the collapse and destruction of Russian civilization. But in general, in the interests of whites, the plan was unsuccessful. The main operational direction could not lead to victory in the war, since it did not lead to vital centers for Soviet Russia or the counter-revolution (Don). The terrain was relatively uncrowded, with a very harsh climate, especially in winter. The territory could not feed numerous troops. From a military and strategic point of view, the implementation of this plan led to the concentration of forces and resources on the right flank of the White Eastern Front, in the Perm direction. The Reds, on the contrary, concentrated their forces on the left flank of the Whites and the Czechs.

In order to strengthen the position on the main operational direction, the whites decided to take Kazan after occupying Simbirsk. Here was the last permanent railway crossing over the Volga (Red Bridge near Sviyazhsk). A wide breakthrough of the Eastern Front of the Reds was also carried out, the 1-I and 2-I Red armies were divided. Hence the opportunity for a shorter operational direction to threaten Moscow.

In this case, the choice of the direction of the new strike caused a dispute. The headquarters of the white forces in Samara in the person of the Commander of the Volga Region Front of the People’s Army Komucha S. Chechek, Colonel N. A. Galkin and Colonel P. P. Petrov proposed to direct the main attack on Saratov. A strike on Saratov could have led to the collapse of the entire southern flank of the Soviet defense, the fall of Tsaritsyn and Astrakhan, the unification with the Don Cossacks of Krasnov, the creation of a united front with them against the Red Army. What created the prerequisites for a further attack on Moscow. Col. V. O. Kappel, A. P. Stepanov, V. I. Lebedev, B. K. Fortunatov insisted on hitting Kazan. They argued that a rebellion had been prepared in Kazan, so the city, where the enormous reserves needed for the troops were concentrated, would be taken without difficulty. Chechek banned Kappel and Stepanov from advancing on Kazan, allowing only a demonstration to the mouth of the Kama, after which they should return to Samara with their units for further advance on Saratov. However, they ignored the ban and decided to take Kazan on their own initiative. The White-Czech detachment numbered about 3 thousand fighters.

One of the most famous and talented white commanders Vladimir Oskarovich Kappel

The fall of Kazan

The troops of the 5 Red Army in the battles from 1 to 5 of August, which had just begun to concentrate near Kazan, in the battles against the enemy could have restrained the onslaught. Soviet troops in Kazan numbered about 10 thousand people, but most of them had low combat capability. The main burden of the fighting lay on the most combat-ready units of the 4 and 5 of the Latvian rifle regiments. But their efforts only delayed, and did not avert, the fall of Kazan.

By the evening of August 5, the whites reached Kazan. River flotillapassing Kazan, she went up the Volga to the Romanovsky bridge and started a firefight with red coastal batteries there, landed a Kappel detachment on the right bank of the Volga near Verkhny Uslon village. Thus, the Volga was intercepted above Kazan. The Czechs at this time landed near the Kazan marinas (five kilometers below Kazan) and, turning around in battle formation, with the support of artillery launched an attack on the city. The Reds, mostly fighters of the 5th Latvian Regiment, fiercely fought back and even pressed the whites.

In the morning of August 6, Lieutenant Colonel Kappel, having landed with a part of his detachment on the left bank of the Volga above Kazan in the area of ​​the village of Bolshaya Otar, entered the city from the rear, causing panic in the ranks of the defended Reds. The Serbian international battalion, which defended the Kazan Kremlin, moved to the side of the People’s Army. Meanwhile, the Czechs, taking advantage of the fact that the most combat-ready units of the Reds were sent to the northern outskirts of the city against Kappel, landed in the Admiralty settlement and, with the support of artillery and machine-gun fire, overturned weak Red Guard units. The landing of this landing also served as a signal for an officer uprising inside the city. By the evening of August 6, the city was surrounded by white from the 3's sides. In the evening of August 6, the remnants of the red garrison divided into two parts. One part with battles began to make its way to Sviyazhsk, the other to the north - to Arsk. However, most of the break from the environment could not and was captured. Vatsetis himself, with his staff, barely escaped captivity. The 5 Latvian Regiment surrendered, which was the only case of the surrender of the Latvian riflemen for the entire Civil War. All of them, as "foreign mercenaries", were shot white. In addition, the moral instability on the ships of the Volga Military Flotilla contributed greatly to the success of whites near Kazan. Not having accepted the battle with the enemy’s armed steamships, the vessels of the red flotilla ran up the Volga.

On the night of August 7, the white units occupied the city completely. White's losses were minimal. Kappel noted that his losses were 25 people, but the trophies taken in the city "did not give in to counting". In addition to the huge amount weapons and military property (the rear warehouses of the old army were located here), the stocks of medicines were in the hands of the whites half of Russia's gold reserves (the other half were kept in Nizhny Novgorod). White captured 650 million gold rubles in coins, 100 million rubles by credit signs, gold bars, platinum, and other valuables). Subsequently, this gold went to the Ufa directory and the Supreme Ruler of Russia Alexander Kolchak. From the reserves of the “Nizhny Novgorod” gold, the Bolsheviks made reparation payments to Germany under the terms of the Brest Peace. Subsequently, according to the conditions of the Versailles peace, this gold was transferred by Germany to the countries of the Entente as part of the German reparations.

Also, the full headquarters of the General Staff Academy in Kazan (in July 1918 was renamed the Red Army Military Academy) moved to the side of the whites. The majority of teachers and students refused to speak out against the whites and Czechoslovaks attacking Kazan and went over to their side. In this regard, October 7 1918, the Revolutionary Military Council issued an order on the formation of the Academy of the General Staff of the Red Army. Thus, during the Civil War from 1918 to 1922, two academies of the General Staff, “white” and “red”, simultaneously operated in Russia at the same time. In the ranks of the White movement, the Academy continued its work, first in Yekaterinburg, then in Tomsk and Omsk. At the end of 1919, the city was evacuated to Vladivostok. The latest edition of its listeners took place at the end of 1921, in Vladivostok, on Russky Island. In the spring of 1923, part of the teachers, the library, the printing house and the property of the academy were returned to Moscow as part of the Soviet Academy.

Immediately after the capture of Kazan, Kappel at a meeting of officers of the General Staff in Kazan proposed to develop an offensive against Moscow through Nizhny Novgorod, since long-term positional defense in a situation that had developed immediately after the capture of Kazan was not possible. Kappel suggested that Nizhny Novgorod be taken at once, and with it the second part of Russia's gold reserves, which certainly worsened Moscow’s position at negotiations with Germany. But the Social Revolutionaries, as well as the Czechs, referring to the lack of reserves for the defense of Samara, Simbirsk and Kazan, spoke out strongly against the plans of the colonel. Instead of an offensive, the SR government preferred a limited defense, which was Komucha’s major strategic mistake. White soon lost the strategic initiative. In addition, despite all the appeals, the influx of volunteers into the People's Army was weak (the social base of the whites was small). Samara did not give additional reserves, saying that Kazan should keep on its own. The decision of the leadership of the Social Revolutionary Party, “First secure the conquered, and then move on,” turned into a defeat.

As a result, the capture of Kazan was the last major victory of the counter-revolutionary forces at the beginning of the campaign on the Eastern Front. Already in September, the troops of the Soviet Eastern Front would go on the counteroffensive and beat off Kazan and Simbirsk, and in October Samara, inflicting a heavy defeat on the People’s Army Komucha.

Comments

[rkkasa xnumx]

General Gaida wanted to avoid a long journey to Vladivostok, and then around the world, and lead the Czechoslovak echelons a shorter route through Perm, Vyatka, Vologda and Arkhangelsk. As a result, this plan was carried out throughout the summer and winter campaigns of 1918-1919.

Two or three weeks of a relatively calm ride to the Far East, for the Czechs you see it was a long way to go, and for months fighting with the fights in the North-West is normal. It’s ridiculous. It is unlikely that the hoteliers of the Czechs greatly bothered the Entente.
Everything is much simpler - the Czechoslovak government was formed in France during the WWII, and the Czechoslovak corps, from the end of 1917, was subordinate to the Entente. Therefore, the Czechs did what their Western masters ordered them to do.

[bober1982]

Quote: rkkasa 81

Therefore, the Czechs did what their Western masters ordered them to do.

Therefore, the Bolsheviks did what the Germans ordered them not to let the Czechs evacuate through Murmansk.

[Basil50]

The author and his admirers somehow suddenly begin and end their stories and comments only with fragments, confirming their theses, omitting both the prehistory and subsequent events.
About Komuch, why so bashful how the mobilization was carried out and how the * seizures * of what was needed from the local population were carried out?
And about the Socialist-Revolutionaries who participated in the creation of Komuch, * they collaborated * with the interventionists, and much more was done in passing, as a minor nuance.
The Socialist-Revolutionaries managed to be in the SOVIET government and lead the riots and create all kinds of * interim governments * and call on the interventionists.

[bober1982]

Quote: Vasily50

About Komuch why so bashful how the mobilization

The mobilization crashed completely, the authority of COMUCH was zero, neither the workers nor the peasants did not want to participate in the fratricidal war.
The Socialist-Revolutionaries were ordinary demagogues, talkers, and all this LITTLE, the All-Russian government, congresses and gatherings, and their amusing army - all this, could be called something buffoonish, if it had not shed blood, and it was not so bloody ..

[Han Tengri]

Quote: bober1982

Socialist-Revolutionaries were ordinary demagogues, talkers

Lovely talkers like that ...

On April 2, 1902, S.V. Balmashev mortally wounded Minister of the Interior D.S. Sipyagin ....
.... After Sipyagin, the victims of the Socialist-Revolutionary terror were the Kharkiv and Ufa governors Obolensky and Bogdanovich, assistant bailiff Kulishov and Colonel Metlenko (the last two assassinations were the work of fighting squads in Berdichev and Bialystok), and on July 15, 1904 the bomb dropped by Yegor Sazonov, In St. Petersburg, Minister of the Interior V.K. Pleve was killed [4]. Then came a surge. Party statistics recorded in 1905 - 54, in 1906 - 78, in 1907 - 68, including after June 3 - 30 (according to updated data, in 1905 - 59, in 1906 - 93 , in 1907 - 81) attempts. And - immediately a sharp decline, in 1908 - 3, in 1909 - 2, in 1910 - 1, in 1911 - 2 assassination attempts [5].

They’ve only been engaged in demagogy all their lives ... And then, "suddenly", some kind of "blood" ... And from where, one asks?

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: bober1982

do not let Czechs evacuate through Murmansk

Again - The Czechoslovak government was formed in France during the WWII, and the Czechoslovak corps, from the end of 1917, was subordinate to the Entente.
That is - on our territory there is a hostile military formation, subordinate to the Entente. The reluctance of the Bolsheviks to let him closer to the center is entirely justified, since there is every reason that, by good, they themselves will not leave. Actually in the future, this is exactly what happened - the Czechoslovak Corps had to be transported with battles.
If the Czech Slovaks really only wanted to get out of Russia, and if they were really independent, then they could well get to the Far East in a couple of weeks. They preferred to go in the opposite direction, hold on and rob.

[bober1982]

The Czechs, fed up with the order, but Samara was four months a free city, a kind of capital of a free and democratic state, with its bizarre characters and orders.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Kappel notedthat his losses amounted to 25 people, but the trophies taken in the city “could not be counted”

Kappel noted It was actually Kappel’s telegram to Colonel Chechek. That is, in essence - the white litter reported to its Czech master.
But as the article says correctly - White’s social base was smalltherefore, despite the captured gold reserves of Russia, despite the help of the West, the Reds eventually knocked out all this evil spirits from the country.

[Olgovich]

defeating the superior forces defending the Soviet city the commander G. D. Gaya

A fascist spy, terrorist, traitor to the Motherland - recognized as such in 1935, was shot.

July 11 new tofrontman Was assigned I.I. Wacetis

.Spy German and British intelligence, terrorist, traitor to the Motherland, recognized as such in 1938, shot.

commander in chief M. Muravyova

shot like a traitor

military drug addict Trotsky

recognized as a German spy and Gestapo agent, hacked.
Most "commanders" and other fronts of the Grazhd. the wars from the Reds were shot as traitors to the motherland
"Elite", yes .....

[Diminisher]

They were shot in the thirties. Do not confuse soft with warm. During this time, much has changed.
By the way, many officers (and persons of a higher rank) RIA went over to the Reds. So why didn’t they be shot, are they "traitors" if you follow your comment?
The elite is ...

[Olgovich]

Quote: Diminisher

They were shot in the thirties. Do not confuse soft with warm. During this time, much has changed.

Are they made of soft ... warm?

Quote: Diminisher

By the way, many officers (and persons of a higher rank) RIA went over to the Reds. So why didn’t they be shot, are they "traitors" if you follow your comment?

Dear, the Bolshevik "heroes" I have named (like many thousands of others) are recognized as traitors to the Motherland ..... by the communist regime itself, and not by me.
Moreover, the traitors were of the highest rank: FIRST Commissars of Defense Bolsheviks Krylenko, Dybenko, A-Ovseenko were shot like traitors to the Motherland, and it is recognized that they began to change since WWI (Dybenko shot as recruited back in 1915 a German spy and USA)
So the claim is not for me.

[naidas]

Dear you do not know the story.
Let me remind you that the French respected Robespierre was executed as a rebel and recognized as a rebel by the revolutionary Convention, and not by me or you.
And many revolutionaries were executed by dissenters by Robespierre himself.
Learn history. And do not bring nonsense, no revolution does not cancel the struggle for power.

[Olgovich]

Quote: naidas

Dear you do not know the story.

What exactly, dear?

Quote: naidas

Let me remind you that the French respected Robespierre was executed as a rebel and recognized as a rebel by the revolutionary Convention, and not by me or you.

What does it mean ... Robespierre?

Quote: naidas

And many revolutionaries were executed by dissenters by Robespierre himself.

Executed millions at all times. AND?

Quote: naidas

Learn history. And do not bring nonsense, no revolution does not cancel the struggle for power.

1. Your advice is for yourself, yes.
2: Stop talking nonsense: read newspapers and Court Sentences 1937-38: did not have during these years there was no "revolution" but (according to the Sentences) traitors to the Motherland, spies and bandits.

[Han Tengri]

Quote: Diminisher

They were shot in the thirties. Do not confuse soft with warm. During this time, much has changed.

Don’t be so cruel with Olgovich. And then, all of a sudden, he will begin to think about it ... Will go crazy yet, what good. He has the same brain, is not adapted for such complex things.

[Victorio]

Quote: Olgovich

"Elite", yes .....

===
type "The policy of revolutionary terror. 1789 - 1794", the author is your fellow countryman

[Olgovich]

Quote: Victorio

type "Policy revolutionary terror. 1789 - 1794 ", the author is your countryman

Type “The Great Terror of 1937–38” and where “revolution” is indicated (via 20 years after the thief). : The revolution is endless? There was no mention of a “revolution” anymore, but a sociadist state was ALREADY built — read the leaders!
And in 1956, the “revolution"? And in 1964 too? ?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

There was no mention of a “revolution” anymore, but a sociadist state was ALREADY built — read the leaders!

The revolution triumphed, but the class struggle continuesXia. It will subside when a completely classless society is built. And before that, the dictatorship of the proletariat must be preserved, otherwise there will be a restoration of capitalism, which was confirmed by the experience of the USSR. As soon as Khrushchev and his brothers in 1961 in the new party program declared the USSR a nation-wide state (abolished the dictatorship of the proletariat), and the CPSU - the party of the whole people (opened the door to the party to all crooks), and the restoration of capitalism began, completed in the early 90's

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Revolution won but class the struggle continues. It will subside when a completely classless society is built.

Classes DESTROYED in 1917, then calm, and the class struggle ... escalates in ... 1937? There are no classes for a long time!
What are you carrying?

Quote: Alexander Green

And before that, the dictatorship of the proletariat should be preserved, otherwise the restoration of capitalism will occur, which was confirmed by the experience of the USSR.

What kind of "dictatorship", what kind of "proletariat" that you bear again, read at least Stalin's CONSTITUTION: who and how should choose and lead

Quote: Alexander Green

As soon as Khrushchev and his brothers in 1961 declared the USSR a nation-wide state in the new party program

Already in the Constitution of 1936 there is no so-called the "dictatorship of the proletariat", which also never existed, was the dictatorship of the party, which no one ever chose

Quote: Alexander Green

а CPSU - party of the whole people (opened the door to the party to all crooks), and so began the restoration of capitalism, which ended in the early 90's.

So, the Communist Party-was NOT the party of the whole people before Khrushchev ?! It's a pity you didn’t say that under Stalin. Very sorry.....
Although this is true: the Communist Party-NEVER was a party of the people, as proved in 1991, when it was eliminated without the slightest squeak, scattered at the speed of light., Incl. and the greens today crying for forever gone.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

Classes DESTROYED in 1917, then calm, and the class struggle ... escalates in ... 1937? There are no classes for a long time!

Do not show your ignorance, at least read the work of Marx's “Critique of the Gotha Program” and Lenin's “State and Revolution”.

Quote: Olgovich

So, the Communist Party-was NOT the party of the whole people before Khrushchev ?! It's a pity you didn’t say that under Stalin. Very sorry.....

And you didn’t read Stalin either, completely dark.

Quote: Olgovich

kpssa-NEVER was a party of the people, as proved in 1991, when it was eliminated without the slightest squeak, scattered at the speed of light., including and the greens today weeping forever gone

The party did not disappear, but was cleansed of enemies and ballast, the class struggle continues, the second edition of the socialist revolution is ahead. Moreover, good prospects for the world revolution.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Alexander Green

Quote: Olgovich

...... she, without the slightest squeak, was liquidated, scattered at the speed of light., including and the greens today weeping forever gone

.... The party did not disappear, but was cleansed of enemies and ballast, the class struggle continues, the second edition of the socialist revolution is ahead. Moreover, good prospects for the world revolution.

Now, if she had already perished like that forever, then now the Olgovichs, and the warriors, and the tethers, would not try to blacken the USSR. Especially from abroad. Would not pay them for this salary.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Do not show your ignorance, at least read the work of Marx's “Critique of the Gotha Program” and Lenin's “State and Revolution”.

Nonsense called "state and revolution" read-the most naive dumbest CHUSHI -did not meet. None of what he “predicted” there came true.
Where, by the way, is there about the aggravation of the "class struggle in 1937?

Quote: Alexander Green

And you didn’t read Stalin either, completely dark.

He, too, like you said that VKPBE is NOT a party all people?!

Quote: Alexander Green

Party not gonebut cleared of enemies and ballast

Not gone? Then where is she? Judging by the number of "members in the PCRF (162 thousand hours) and the CPSU (18 million people), the CPSU party consisted, basically. Of enemies and ballast.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

Nonsense called "state and revolution" read-the most naive dumbest CHUSHI -did not meet.

All pygmies say so.

Quote: Olgovich

Where, by the way, is there about the aggravation of the "class struggle in 1937?

It was after the bourgeoisie was overthrown that the class struggle took on the most harsh forms (V.I. Lenin, PSS, T.38, S.351)
As long as classes exist, class struggle is inevitable (V.I. Lenin, PSS, T.44, S.343)
The abolition of classes is achieved not by extinguishing the class struggle, but by strengthening it (I.V. Stalin, SS, T. 13, S.211)

Quote: Olgovich

Not gone? Then where is she? Judging by the number of "members in the Communist Party (162 thousand hours)

The number does not matter, in February 1917 the Bolsheviks totaled only 24 thousand, and six months later they turned the world upside down.

Quote: Olgovich

CPSU (18 million people), the CPSU party was, BASICALLY. from enemies and ballast.

Unfortunately - YES, this is the result of revisionism, opportunism and the compromise of the Khrushchev clique and its followers.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

All pygmies say so

Closer to the body, yes. : WHERE in this so-called "work" on the class struggle in 1937 (20 years after the BOP)?

Quote: Alexander Green

Exactly after the struggle of the bourgeoisie is overwhelmed by the class struggle

WHERE "foresight" that the class "struggle will be through 20 years?! (NO classes for a long time)

Quote: Alexander Green

classes exist, class struggle is inevitable (V.I. Lenin, PSS, T.44, S.343)

Quote: Alexander Green

Destruction of classes is not achieved by extinction class struggle, and by strengthening it (I.V. Stalin, SS, T.13, S.211)

NO classes in 1937: with whom to fight?

Quote: Alexander Green

The quantity does not matter.

Of course, it doesn’t: there is no quantity — NO and lots.

Quote: Alexander Green

Unfortunately - YES, this is the result of revisionism, opportunism and the compromise of the Khrushchev clique and its followers.

For the hundredth time I ask: WHERE did the real Bolsheviks go ?!
The Trotskyists are weak, depraved, stupid people. And then who is the present. Bolsheviks, if their Trotskyists - humiliated?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

Closer to the body, yes. : WHERE in this so-called "work" on the class struggle in 1937 (20 years after the BOP)?

Do not engage in sophistry.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alexander Green

Do not borrowXia sophistry.

1. Learn first what "sophistry" is.
2. Answer the direct question.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Olgovich

1. Learn first what "sophistry" is.
2. Answer the direct question.

On your part, this is pure sophistry, which you so unscrupulously apply in discussions to achieve victory in any way. You use concepts that formally seem correct, but essentially they are based on the deliberately incorrect selection of the starting points. So you act now.
IN AND. Lenin is neither Nostradamus nor a fortuneteller to write in 1920 about the concrete construction of the class struggle in 1937. The class struggle will continue until the classes disappear completely, and they will disappear when the distinction between city and village is erased, and there will be no separation between mental and physical labor.

[Victorio]

Quote: Olgovich

And in 1956, the “revolution"? And in 1964 too? fool?

===
http://renotes.ru/post-108/usa-military-action. демократия?

[igordok]

To illustrate his passages, the author should have put these shots.

[bober1982]

Quote: igordok

To illustrate his passages, the author should have put these shots.

Kappel people mental attack, cheap sovdepovsky agitprop.
How could the Kappel people be dressed in the form of “Markov” fighters, who were part of the south of Russia.

[Weyland]

Quote: igordok

To illustrate his passages, the author should have put these shots.

a movie Soviet... There were even more ridiculous shots when the Kappel people flipped somersault, kicking in the air with their feet. But they were cut out at the personal direction of Stalin, who stated that "to laugh at courage is unworthy. "!
And the Kappelites went into the “psychic attack” for a very simple reason - there were no rounds. Absolutely.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Weyland

There were even funnier shots when the Kappel people flipped somersault, kicking in the air with their feet. But they were cut out on the personal instructions of Stalin, who declared that "laughing at courage is not worthy!"

Did Stalin personally tell you this?

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

Did Stalin personally tell you this?

that is, a "barking tigan" you consider incapable of respecting valor in the enemy?

[kalibr]

That's how interesting the power of the word is. "The Serbian international battalion defended the Kazan Kremlin on the side of the People’s Army." That's the way it is written by the author and it's true! But ... how was it in reality, how did he move on? In other words, this can be described as follows: During the attack on Kazaz, the Serbs were in the ranks of the fighters fighting the Kappel people. And suddenly with a cry, "At the knife! They rushed at the Red Army men and began to kill them. There was a panic, the Reds fled, and the Serbs rushed after them and, in fact, were the first to go to Kazan ..." So it was. Oh, what a pity that I can’t publish my novel "Pareto Law" in Russia. There is a whole chapter about this in detail.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Well, the Serbs have always been those little brothers. They then looked askance before WWII, and after it they swayed, and even did not join the Warsaw Pact Organization.

[Nick_R]

So they were not red brothers, but Russian.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Nick_R

So they were not red brothers, but Russian

And the red ones, aren't they mostly Russians? Or do you think the red ones are Martians of some kind who, from nowhere, have fallen on our heads?

[Nick_R]

And white is not Russian to you? These are just the descendants of those officers who helped liberate Serbia from the Ottoman yoke.
But the Jewish international, led by Lenin and Trotsky and with the support of Latvian riflemen, can hardly be called Russian.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Nick_R

And white is not Russian to you? These are just the descendants of those officers who helped liberate Serbia from the Ottoman yoke.

Among the descendants of the officers liberating Serbia, the Reds were also. And the officers did not release the "little brothers" alone, but along with ordinary soldiers. And among the descendants of those liberating soldiers, the Reds also were.
Well, do not forget the role of the Red Army in the liberation of the Serbs during WWII.
However, the Serbs did sway. Well, cho, the Austrian Germans became impossibly peaceful, and the West was such a darling in general, not like these scum scum. And then the Soviet Union did not become, and peaceful Germans came to visit again.

Quote: Nick_R

the Jewish international, led by Lenin and Trotsky and with the support of Latvian riflemen, can hardly be called Russian

Oh, that almighty Jewish international How many people were there in him that he managed to defeat in a multi-million Russia?
Yes, by the way - but are Kappel, Kolchak, Miller, Wrangel, Keller, Diterichs - are they exactly Russian?
PS About the behavior of Serbia during the famine of the early 20's:
The delegate from Serbia Spalaykovich yelled that his government would not give a dime to help Russia! His Government would prefer to see how the whole Russian nation will perish, than will help the Communists!
https://d-clarence.livejournal.com/89287.html

[Nick_R]

Well, do not forget the role of the Red Army in the liberation of the Serbs during WWII.

I believe in 1918. the Serbs did not yet realize the role of the red army in WWII.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Nick_R

I believe in 1918. Serbs have not yet guessed about the role of the red army in WWII

Really stupid, or pretend to be?

[RUSS]

Quote: Nick_R

But the Jewish international, led by Lenin and Trotsky and with the support of Latvian riflemen, can hardly be called Russian.

I will add.
Of considerable importance to the Red Army were military units created from internationalists (they also replenished the usual regiments of the Red Army). So, according to Soviet historians, the number of Chinese volunteers in the Red Army alone during the Civil War was approximately 40-50 thousand.

[voyaka uh]

", the number of Chinese volunteers alone" ////
-----
The Red Command trained them in military affairs with the help of unemployed personnel officers (who were paid) and paid regular salaries to Chinese soldiers.
And at the end of the Civil War, the Chinese with all honestly earned money returned to their China.
If the white command had guessed to do the same, they fought just as well for the whites.

[Each other]

Have you seen any payments? And what was the salary of the Chinese contractors? But why didn’t they pay Latvians and Hungarians?

[Each other]

You tell us how the Chinese found themselves on the territory of the Russian Empire. And most importantly, on which transport did the Chinese return home?

[voyaka uh]

They worked at the Ural military factories. During World War II there were not enough workers and guest workers arrived. When the war abruptly ended, the Chinese were unemployed and stuck. Eaten accumulation. They returned to their homeland after the Civil; they were taken out along the Trans-Siberian Railway.

[Each other]

Yes, yes, and their "huge" earnings in euros were received by transfers to credit cards.

[voyaka uh]

They paid with royal rubles. They were quoted in China. And they were stored in individual soldier chests.
They had to carry with them in a convoy of regiments.
I will explain, although you seem to just be angry, and history does not interest you at all.

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

And the red ones, aren't they mostly Russians?

Mostly not. Poles, Latvians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, not to mention those who cannot be called, to avoid accusations of Nazism

[naidas]

But white, as fans of the Echo of Moscow now, are ready to sell Russia to the West.

[Senior seaman]

Seems to me TE white the current "ehomoskovtsev" pretty quickly identified the lantern. All the same, on their banners it was written: "One and indivisible Russia."

[RUSS]

Quote: Senior Sailor

Seems to me TE white the current "ehomoskovtsev" pretty quickly identified the lantern. All the same, on their banners it was written: "One and indivisible Russia."

And what is wrong with the Echo of Moscow?

[Senior seaman]

And what is wrong with the Echo of Moscow?

From the point of view of whites?
It’s inconvenient to answer a question with a question, but what do you think would be the reaction of, say, Wrangel, who suddenly found out that Crimea is not Russian territory?

[Walking]

Quote: Senior Sailor

Seems to me TE white the current "ehomoskovtsev" pretty quickly identified the lantern. All the same, on their banners it was written: "One and indivisible Russia."

Funny, you really think that the Entente needed a united and indivisible Russia.

[Weyland]

Quote: naidas

white, it's like fans of the Echo of Moscow now,

do not smack nonsense, it hurts! For the most part, whites are Imperials, while liberals and other dissidents from the ear of the matzo are the descendants of the party bonuses repressed in the 37th party!

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Weyland

Mostly not. Poles, Latvians, Hungarians, Ukrainians, not to mention those who cannot be called, to avoid accusations of Nazism

Everything is as usual - for the anti-Soviet, Russians, this is such a stupid and cowardly flock that obeyed a miserable bunch of foreigners.

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

for the anti-Soviet, Russians, this is such a stupid and cowardly flock that obeyed a miserable bunch of foreigners.

not cowardly - but it really turned out pretty dumb (and even now, judging by the percentage of those who vote for PZhiVchikov, there are enough dumb ones!)

[Koshnitsa]

fought for five years, unlike the millions of Soviet in 1991, so the Russians are not stupid and not cowardly

[Each other]

And what, in those days, Ukrainians were no longer Russian?

[kalibr]

Quote: rkkasa 81

Reds eventually knocked out all this evil from the country.

They fought, they fought, but only they themselves crashed ...

[rkkasa xnumx]

Do you doubt the victory of the Bolsheviks in the Civil War?

[kalibr]

No, of course, but the result is important to me. What is the use of the Reds winning the Civil, and even the Second World War. It is important that we have the result now. And now - the flag of General Vlasov over the Kremlin and a two-headed eagle on coins.

[Olgovich]

Quote: kalibr

And now - the flag of General Vlasov over the Kremlin and a two-headed eagle on coins.

Over the KremlinState Flag of Russiawhat he was and to the thief and even after the legal authorities of Russia, VSYUR and the Russian Government.
The flag of St. Vlasov’s army was the St. Andrew’s flag, but therefore to call it “Vlasov” is an insult to this flag, which has a much more ancient history

[kalibr]

No, Andrey, I saw the photo and published drawings on them with the image of the tricolor on tanks of the Vlasov division in the Tankmaster. And yes - White had the tricolor and there is a photo where it is depicted on armored trains and chevrons of "colored regiments", but one does not interfere with the other!

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: kalibr

What is the use of the Reds winning the Civil, and even the Second World War

I don’t know about you - apparently a descendant of the policemen, but I really have the sense that the Reds won Civil and Great Patriotic War.

Quote: kalibr

now - the flag of General Vlasov over the Kremlin and a two-headed eagle on coins

The fact that the bailers at this stage get the upper hand is understandable without flags with coins. Rising prices for housing and communal services, pension tricks, the degradation of education, science, medicine, drug addiction, embezzlement, etc., etc. - all this is yours.

Quote: kalibr

important outcome

Are you sure that this condition is the result? I’m sure of the opposite - the current power of the bogeyers, it is temporary.

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

The fact that the bailers at this stage get the upper hand is clear even without flags with coins

Whiteware to do with it? They are all in exile! 99% of the oligarchs are former party and Komsomol bonzes. Read Orwell's Animal Farm - he predicted all this back in 1944!

[naidas]

Quote: Weyland

Whiteware to do with it?

The country is reborn, the revolutionary spirit is waning. The bourgeois rebirth, which the first generations of revolutionaries were so afraid of, is becoming a reality. The USSR ceases to exist. The most important factor in the defeat of the Soviet project is integration into the global peace system.
The ideas of the whites are party and Komsomol bonzes, Chubais to help you understand.

[Weyland]

Quote: naidas

White dei carry party and Komsomol bonuses

Audible nonsense! These are the ideas of red, red and red again: "if there is no God, then everything is allowed! " Honor, conscience, patriotism? "The proletariat has no homeland!"

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Weyland

Whiteware to do with it?

Despite the fact that the boilers just wanted such a Russia.

Quote: Weyland

99% of oligarchs are former party and Komsomol bonuses

Seriously ? And you forgive me, do not you breach for an hour? Is MB still just the former members of the CPSU and the Komsomol?

Quote: Weyland

Read Orwell's Animal Farm

You need to read. First of all, the history of their country. And on any heresy, such as Orwell - hammer.

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

Despite the fact that the boilers just wanted such a Russia.

did they tell you personally?

[rkkasa xnumx]

The bailers fought for the power of the capitalist bourgeoisie. It is precisely this kind of power that exists in Russia now.

[kalibr]

After me, even a flood!

[Reptiloid]

Quote: kalibr

..... What is the use of the Reds winning the Civil, and even the Second World War. .

Even WWII ?? What an interesting thought! There is a desire to review the results of 2MB.
The USSR won the victory. What a dismissive tone ?! Or it is not known that the Russian Federation is the legal successor of the USSR.

[Alexander Greene]

Dmitry do not be surprised, you see with what slogan he lives: "After me, even a flood!", i.e. after his death perish even the whole world.
With these words, expressed by the Marquise de Pompadour, today the entire present bourgeoisie and its minions are guided, this is the quintessence of the attitude of the current pseudo-elite to their country, to their people.
This once again confirms that there were many enemies and ballast in the Communist Party.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Alexander Green

Dmitry do not be surprised, you see with what slogan he lives: "After me, even a flood!", i.e. after his death perish even the whole world.
In these words, .... today, the entire current bourgeoisie is guided ...
This once again confirms that there were many enemies and ballast in the Communist Party.

HA HA HA !!!!!! However, I do not agree with you, Alexander !!!!! After all, if literally ---- it’s kind of like spitting on direct descendants, because they live and live then. I think this is the floor and

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Reptiloid

...... I think this is the floor and

Of course, I did not think about any floors !!!! I wanted to write the word EATAGE, and the inscription appeared ---- the site is temporarily disabled! Well, I think everything is gone! How to live further ???? I did not believe the word ---- temporarily. Everything is back!

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Reptiloid

Everything is back!

Unfortunately, not all, previously unread comments stood out on the upper red bar, now they don’t, and therefore you have to run through the page several times with your eyes. Significant inconvenience.

[Reptiloid]

EVERYTHING --- meant the site. And as for the comments ---- yes, there is such a thing and I asked this question in another article, it will gradually return and this, inconsistencies will gradually correct

[bober1982]

Call Kappel talented general, the language does not turn, with all the deep respect for it, it sounds too creative, in the spirit of the present time. Vladimir Oskarovich headed People's Army due to the fact that there was simply no one who wanted to stand at the head of this very peculiar army.
I must say that the Socialist Revolutionary experience in organizing the army was unsuccessful, the People’s Army itself reminiscent of the army of the times of Kerensky: commissars, Socialist Revolutionaries, citizen soldiers, cancellation of shoulder straps, comradely disciplinary courts, commanders and commanders had power only in battle, and many others. " democratic "features. Therefore, this People’s Army had nothing to do with the White Guard armies.
Kappel, being a convinced monarchist, behaved decently, he gave the floor to be loyal to KOMUCH, this rather “muddy” organization.

[Olgovich]

Quote: bober1982

Calling Kappel a talented commander, the language does not turn, with all the deep respect for him, it sounds too creative, in the spirit of the present time.

In order to smash huge hordes with such small forces, one really had to have talent.

[Each other]

And the hordes still go and do not know that they were defeated by "talent"

[Olgovich]

Quote: Saling

And the hordes still go and do not know that they were defeated by "talent"

One should look at the State Flag of Russia over the Kremlin more often. And knowledge will come!

[Alex_59]

Quote: Olgovich

One should look at the State Flag of Russia over the Kremlin more often. And knowledge will come!

And some more often need to listen to the anthem of the Russian Federation, the music of which was written by a member of the Union of Composers of the USSR, twice the Stalin Prize laureate, and the text by the Lenin, three Stalin Prize laureate, Hero of Socialist Labor. )))
This is so, for balance)))
Well, you can still watch the parade. Where the Victory Banner is not a tolerant red communist color. The official symbol, approved by law and protected as a relic, quote "symbol of victory Soviet of the people and its Armed Forces over fascist Germany in the Great Patriotic War of the 1941-1945 years, the state relic of Russia. "

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alex_59

And some more often need to listen to the anthem of the Russian Federation, the music of which was written by a member of the Union of Composers of the USSR

I listen with pleasure to the beautiful words of the Anthem:

Russia is our sacred state
Russia is our favorite country.
Mighty will, great glory -
Your wealth for all time!

Glory Country our free
The brotherly peoples of the union age-old,
Ancestors given wisdom of the people!
Be glorious, country! We are proud of you!

Great words! And no words about

And Lenin gave us a great path.

Quote: Alex_59

Well, you can still watch the parade. Where the Victory Banner is not a tolerant red communist color. The official symbol, approved by law and protected as a relic, I quote "a symbol of the victory of the Soviet people and their Armed Forces over Nazi Germany in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, the state relic of Russia."

Victory Banner is an assault flag of the 150th Order of Kutuzov, II degree, by the Idritskaya Infantry Division, a sacred relic of the country, I agree. What did you want to say?
State flag of Russia- the same as before the Thief.

[Weyland]

Quote: Olgovich

Great words! And no words about
And Lenin gave us a great path.

ICHSH, "Lenin dawned upon us the great path" the same author. The infamous family - all modes licked!

[RUSS]

Quote: Weyland

Quote: Olgovich

Great words! And no words about
And Lenin gave us a great path.

ICHSH, "Lenin dawned upon us the great path" the same author. The infamous family - all modes licked!

One of the representatives of this family was in the election campaign of Yeltsin in the 90s, and now he is throwing mud at him in his broadcast on TV.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Olgovich

The national flag of Russia is the same as it was before the Thief

Yes, it was approved by decree No.2126 of the 11.12.1993 of the year Boris Yeltsin, a member of the Communist Party of the USSR since the 1961 of the year. Do not expect anything good from these commies, right? ))))

Quote: Olgovich

What did you want to say?

That the pre-revolutionary flag was returned, but "God save the king" - no. Left the Soviet anthem with minor corrections. Those. its communist origin does not bother anyone in Russia. And the banner of victory, in the form adopted in the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army in red, is a relic in modern Russia.
However, you do not understand, it's me, having fun))

[Olgovich]

Quote: Alex_59

Yes, it was approved by decree No. 2126 of December 11.12.1993, 1961, Boris Yeltsin, a member of the Communist Party of the USSR since XNUMX. Do not expect anything good from these commies, right?

Do you propose now that you hate the construction site since the EBN was a foreman?

Quote: Alex_59

That the pre-revolutionary flag was returned, but "God save the king" - no. Left the Soviet anthem with Small edits.

What is the matter, dear people? The salt of that hymn is thrown out completely: no commute. not a single leader of the command movement,

Quote: Alex_59

Those. its communist origin does not bother anyone in Russia.

WHAT is there "communist", I ask again?

Quote: Alex_59

And the banner of victory, in the form adopted in the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army in red, is a relic in modern Russia.

"Victory Banner" - with a BIG letter is written, have respect. It is a relic, yes. Say something you want, I ask again?

Quote: Alex_59

However you don't understandb, that's me

How to understand you if you do not say ANYTHING?

[naidas]

Quote: Olgovich

One should look at the State Flag of Russia over the Kremlin more often. And knowledge will come!

Are you talking about the talent of Boris Yeltsin?

[Olgovich]

Quote: naidas

It is you about Boris Yeltsin's talent?

Didn’t get the “what” right away? I repeat: About State Flag of Russia over the Kremlin.
Repeat again?

[bober1982]

Quote: Olgovich

In order to smash huge hordes with such small forces, one really had to have talent

That's right, the Kappel brigade was the only combat-ready formation, and in my opinion, talented can be called an actor, football player, vocalist and so on, but not a general, pilot, tanker.

[Olgovich]

Quote: bober1982

talented, in my opinion, you can actor, soccer player, vocalist and so on, but not a general, pilot, tanker.

"Military talent" is a commonly used expression

[voyaka uh]

Later, Kappel was defeated by the Chinese battalions of the Red Army. Migrant workers who, after an intensive course of a "young soldier", were thrown into battle against a career officer regiment. And the Chinese mercenaries won. This does not indicate Kappel's military leadership.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: bober1982

Kappel, being a convinced monarchist, behaved decently, he pledged to be loyal to KOMUCH, this rather “muddy” organization

Yeah, VERY "decent" - to be a convinced monarchist, but to accept the February Revolution, and swear allegiance to the Provisional Government (unlike Keller for example). And then, go to the side of the muddy KOMUCH, and fight against their own people. Decency just rolls over.
Kappel also noted in the first revolution, in Perm.

[bober1982]

Kappel was a real Russian general, everything else is empty talk.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: bober1982

Kappel, was a real Russian general

And?
The Russian general does not automatically mean the presence of any positive qualities, for example, intelligence, courage, decency. And with decency, Kappel was so-so.
Yes, and most likely he wasn’t very smart either - if he had been smart, he would have chosen the side of the Reds, or at worst, he would have simply fallen from Russia. If he did not have enough conscience and honor to sincerely take the side of the Bolsheviks, he could at least guess that he could not defeat all of Russia, even with the help of foreign patrons. And so - popakostil, but dead.

[bober1982]

Quote: rkkasa 81

if he were smart, he would choose the side of the Reds, or at worst, he’d just dump him from Russia

After all, you yourself set Keller as an example, but he, by the way, didn’t take the chase, from the market (selfish) interests to red did not overturnme and nowhere dump he didn’t, and Kappel didn’t blame him either, nor did he hide.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: bober1982

You yourself set Keller as an example

Firstly, I spoke about Keller’s behavior only in February. And secondly, you wrote about Kappel.

Quote: bober1982

Kappel also did not blame

So I’m talking about this:

Yes, and most likely he wasn’t very smart either - if he had been smart, he would have chosen the side of the Reds, or at worst, he would have simply fallen from Russia. If he did not have enough conscience and honor to sincerely take the side of the Bolsheviks, he could at least guess that he could not defeat all of Russia, even with the help of foreign patrons. And so - popakostil, but dead.

[bober1982]

During the February Revolution, Kappel was just a modest staff officer, unlike Keller, there was a big difference between them. We can be confused with you - who, why, where you dumped, or vice versa is not, or who had a conscience or was absent. Both the general received death, they could also sit out.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: bober1982

During the February Revolution, Kappel was just a modest staff officer

A humble staff officer, it is not necessary to have honor and decency? OK.

Quote: bober1982

We can be confused with you - who, why, where you dumped, or vice versa not, or who had a conscience or was absent.

No, I won’t get confused.

[bober1982]

For your reasons, service in the Red Army was a guarantee of decency and honor of those who served there, although it can be assumed that there were more than enough scumbags in its ranks.

Quote: rkkasa 81

I'm not, don't get confused

An alien soul is always a darkness for others, and you are confidently speaking with all party principles.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: bober1982

For your reasons, service in the Red Army was the guarantee of decency and honor of those

?

Quote: bober1982

The alien soul is always the darkness for others, and you speak with confidence, with all the party principles

Man fought on the side of the interventionists, against his own people. Therefore, there is nowhere to get confused.

[Koshnitsa]

But Kappel and Trotsky belonged to different nations, khe-khe.

[Korsar4]

And so the disaster continued throughout the country.

Kappel himself is a curious figure.

But what can a simple person do - just like Bumbarash’s:

"Front ambush, rear trap.
White, green, gold mining.
And Everyone has one head, like mine "(c)

[midshipman]

Yes, the Russian people got it at that time. What a tragedy it was. How our ancestors survived is incomprehensible to the mind. Then 1941 was repeated. Then tagged and drunk.

[Alexander Greene]

Samsonov signed up. The number of his articles does not translate into quality. For him, for the Reds, one word “escaped”, even the Volga red ships and those he “escaped”.
Further about the 5th Latvian regiment. According to Samsonov, during the defense of Kazan, he surrendered. But what was he awarded then? But for the defense of Kazan in August 1918, the 5th Latvian regiment was the first regiment in the Red Army to be awarded the All-Russian Central Executive Committee Honorary Revolutionary Red Banner. Really for the fact that he "surrendered"?
It’s just the opposite. When the red units retreated, it was the 5th regiment of the Latvian riflemen who did not let White break through the front and go to Moscow, and the surrender of the Latvian regiment was a complete invention. Not a regiment was captured, but 137 people surrounded and surrendered after they ran out of ammunition.

[Korsar4]

So I think - with what speed can articles be written?
Of course, the popular ones are different from the original ones.

But he was always impressed by the working capacity of the literary Martin Eden or the real Maugham.

[RUSS]

Quote: Alexander Green

Samsonov signed up.

It seems that Samsonov is a group of people writing under the same surname

[BAI]

seeking this way to establish contact with the Entente landing, advancing from the White Sea.

Someone recalls in the comments with foam at the mouth that the White Guards fought against the interventionists.

[BAI]

Something the author bent 5 Latvian regiment.
1. Not a regiment was captured, but 137 people surrounded and surrendered, as it should be when the cartridges ran out. By the way - the information that prisoners were shot was also false. 120 of them returned to the regiment after the liberation of the prisoner of war camp, the fate of 17 is unknown, but they could die from wounds, not be in the camp, just refuse to return to the regiment. Finally, if they (or part of them) were shot, this is still far from “all captured Latvian arrows”.
2. If the entire regiment was shot, then it is interesting how the author will explain his military operations against Wrangel, when it comes to 1920?

[Alex_59]

In the comments as usual shit. It is equally unpleasant to read how both sides of the tragic civil war are being watered. Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers made many mistakes, because they are people. There were villains on both sides of the conflict, and worthy personalities. Each side, in its own way, saw a better future for its homeland and fought for this future as best it could. Both sides were right and wrong at the same time. What is the use of calculating who first spilled blood, who killed more? There is no point in this. And especially there is nothing useful for our future.
I can’t imagine that in the United States or France, they mocked or mocked one of the sides of a civil war or revolution. Why are their ancestors respected there? Why do they understand the reasons why this or that side of events acted in this way, and not otherwise? And they treat this with understanding. Calm, with respect.
Well, do not say that the red commander was "shot"! Well, you can’t talk about the white general "dead"! When will we begin to respect ourselves finally?
Shame and disgrace...

[bober1982]

Quote: Alex_59

In the comments as usual shit.

So after all, they specially push their foreheads, if anyone says ....... that's enough, let's put up ...., begins a real howl ........ do not forget, do not forgive ..... , all this is strictly monitored.

Quote: Alex_59

Why do they understand the reasons why this or that side of events acted in this way, and not otherwise? And they treat this with understanding. Calm, with respect.

They don’t understand anything there, and they don’t have any respect, they are real lumpen, marijuana and gay parades - that’s all their understanding. We, all of us, are still not so much corrupted.

[Alex_59]

Quote: bober1982

So after all, they deliberately push their foreheads, if anyone says ....... that's enough, let's put up .... the real howl begins ........ we will not forget, we will not forgive ..... , all this is strictly monitored.

I think this comes from the mental imbalance of the participants in the process. Their obvious desire is to see the future of our country, arranged according to a chosen favorite model of the past. Otherwise, it is difficult to understand why, for example, constantly pushing for the fact that we have exactly the flag that was before the revolution over the Kremlin. Any adequate person understands that with the rejection of the leadership of the Communist Party, the flag could not remain red, and inventing a new flag was already complete nonsense - therefore, they chose the old, traditional Russian symbol without an obvious political coloring. But here these people are looking for in this fact a symbol of the victory of monarchism or even of the white movement. That is, they really want it to be "like then." This is a clear departure from the medical department. If you like a certain era with its mores, customs, uniforms and others - what does this have to do with the reality of the present? Nothing.
And most importantly - no desire to take an objective balanced point of view is not observed. To compromise for the sake of a common, strong, friendly future for the whole country - too.
It looks from the side is not very adult. It seems that some infantile overgrown play in the "gentlemen of the officers", others in the "commissars." It is enough to look out into the street to understand that the country will not be like not the Republic of Ingushetia, not the USSR. It will be (and is) another country. It would be better to do something useful in reality than to grind this past from empty to empty.

Quote: bober1982

They don’t understand anything there, and they don’t have any respect, they are real lumpen, marijuana and gay parades - that’s all their understanding. We, all of us, are still not so much corrupted.

I think your idea of ​​the West is greatly distorted by our propaganda.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Alex_59

Each side, in its own way, saw a better future for its homeland and fought for this future as best it could. Both sides were right and wrong at the same time.

With this - everyone was right in his own way - anything can be justified. For example, Krasnov, or Vlasov - they were also right in their own way, weren't they? And what, we will not condemn their deeds too?

Quote: Alex_59

I can’t imagine that in the United States or France, they mocked or mocked one of the sides of a civil war or revolution. Why are their ancestors respected there? Why do they understand the reasons why this or that side of events acted in this way, and not otherwise? And they treat this with understanding. Calm, with respect.

Of course, I don’t know exactly why they relate to their past more calmly (and whether they relate at all), but I assume that this is for two reasons:
1 - much more time has passed since those events than after our Civil;
2 - their events did not divide people as fundamentally as ours.
And about understanding. Understanding and justification are two different things.

[Alex_59]

Quote: rkkasa 81

For example, Krasnov, or Vlasov - they were also right in their own way, weren't they? And what, we will not condemn their deeds too?

Krasnov and Vlasov are war criminals and traitors. There can not and could not be a discrepancy, both from a legal and a moral point of view.
I am talking about something else. About our internal showdowns. For example - reprisals against local residents by the whites, over those whom they considered accomplices of the Bolsheviks and so on. From the point of view of an ordinary person, I can not justify such actions in any way - this is a crime. But from the point of view of the historian, I understand why such a phenomenon (undoubtedly bad) occurred. Because war is not a forum to scribble. Jammed them with anger - and away we go. The same with the Reds. So what's next? Let's consider who killed more, is he worse? Well, excuse me, kindergarten. In the style of "my dad is a policeman ... etc.".
Or Stalinist repression. There is nothing good in them. It is a crime. From the universal point of view. You can’t just put a crowd of people on a fabricated case against the wall. But from the point of view of the historian - I understand why this happened. Because in the framework of those revolutionary upheavals and the way of thinking of those people, nothing was more important than the struggle against the enemies of the people. And it’s understandable why - Stalin was tired of messing around with those Kamenev and Trotsky who repent, then again pull the blanket over themselves. So they arranged a purge - in a revolutionary, cruel way. The country had to be raised, there wasn’t any time for talk. As it was - it was so.
Life is a tangle of stupidity, mistakes, victories, luck, and more. Everything is interconnected. Everything follows from one another. There would be no repression if the Bolsheviks had not won. The Bolsheviks would not have won if the civil war had not begun. The civil revolution would not have begun if it had not been for the October revolution. There would have been no October revolution if there had been no February revolution. It would not be February if the king of the rules is better than he could. And so on. For centuries.

[Alex_59]

Quote: rkkasa 81

And whom did Krasnov betray?

Let's turn off the brakes, all of you perfectly understand what it is about. Krasnov is a Russian man who went to serve those who considered his goal the maximum possible extermination of Russians.

Quote: rkkasa 81

And what did you want to say with this passage - xs ...

Thank you, I understand you.

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Alex_59

Let's turn off the brakes

I agree, it's time for you to do this.

Quote: Alex_59

Krasnov is a Russian man who went to serve those who considered his goal the maximum possible extermination of Russians

And if he were not Russian, could he have exterminated the Russians? Or - and if he killed only non-Russians, would this also be normal? And in my opinion, nationality is the tenth thing.
And what about the fact that Krasnov also killed Russians (and not only Russians) in the GV? Why the extermination of Russians (and not only Russians) during the Second World War is bad; and the same acts during the GV - do you see this, you need to be treated with understanding?

Quote: Alex_59

Thank you, I understand you

First, take your foot off the brake

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

For example, Krasnov, or Vlasov - they were also right in their own way, weren't they?

And what, Vlasov also fought for white? What is characteristic, of the many dozens of white generals who found themselves in exile, they collaborated with the Nazis, EMNIP, only Krasnov and Shkuro (Well, Semenov also worked with japs).Typically, all three are Cossacks (Krasnov is a nobleman, but also from the Cossacks who have served the nobility)

[rkkasa xnumx]

Quote: Weyland

And what, Vlasov also fought for white

In the sense of ?

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

In the sense of ?

Krasnov was not a citizen of the USSR and did not take the oath to him - therefore purely legal is not a traitor (unlike Vlasov). Although, in addition to the legal aspect, there is a moral

[rkkasa xnumx]

Why did you ask this question at all:

Quote: Weyland

And what, Vlasov also fought for white?

?

[Weyland]

Quote: rkkasa 81

Why did you ask this question at all:

Quote: Weyland

And what, Vlasov also fought for white?

?

Then, that you put him on a par with Krasnov

[Koshnitsa]

99% of the traitors in the Second World War were Soviet Communist people, Komsomol members and trade union members.
Many fought in the war as Vlasov, Voskoboinik, Kaminsky for the Reds.

[naidas]

Quote: Alex_59

I can’t imagine that in the United States or France, they mocked or mocked one of the sides of a civil war or revolution.

And it was understandable that one could get an article for anti-American activity, loss of citizenship (like Chaplin), and there activities like Echo of Moscow are impossible there.
There are almost all Charlie Ebdo. To predict not so much as they please, but to receive a shock answer.

[Alex_59]

Quote: naidas

and there activities like Echo of Moscow are impossible.

Offhand - Michael Moore. By the way - I recommend its documentaries for viewing. Very useful.

[naidas]

Offhand: Satyric, with films like Where else to invade. Banned from showing in the US. Democracy however.
Moscow is not drawn to the Echo, a wimp can’t drench his country like ours.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Alex_59

It is equally unpleasant to read how both sides of the tragic civil war are being watered.

In this you are right, the adversary must be respected.
But let me disagree with this:

Quote: Alex_59

Each side, in its own way, saw a better future for its homeland and fought for this future as best it could. Both sides were right and wrong at the same time.

Civil war is a class struggle in its acute phase. The two sides fought the oppressors and the oppressed. The oppressors, with the help of the White Army and intervention, sought to regain the privilege of parasitizing the working people, the oppressed with the help of the Red Army fought to free themselves from parasites. thereforeTruth is always on the side of the oppressed.

[Alex_59]

Quote: Alexander Green

The two sides fought the oppressors and the oppressed.

Already by the fact that you use the terminology characteristic of only one of the parties to the events, I can assume that objectivity is not your ultimate goal. Perhaps you use it for a different reason - it's easier and more familiar. May be. But still, to reduce the multifaceted complex conflict and its causes to the “oppressor-oppressed” formula is not very plausible. In my province, for example, the oppressed for some reason in the initial period of the war were not eager to overthrow the oppressors, but even actively helped them, as a result of which (but not only this, but also for a number of reasons) the city was taken without white fight. True, during the reverse process the whites arranged in the city “liberated” by them such that all the oppressed, for reasons completely far from “oppression,” joyfully greeted the Reds. Everything is complicated, in short.

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: Alex_59

In my province, for example, the oppressed for some reason in the initial period of the war were not eager to overthrow the oppressors, but even actively helped them, as a result of which (but not only this, but also for a number of reasons) the city was taken white without a fight. True, during the reverse process the whites arranged in the city “liberated” by them such that all the oppressed, for reasons completely far from “oppression,” joyfully greeted the Reds. Everything is complicated, in short.

In your case: the dark masses learn from their mistakes.

[voyaka uh]

"it is unpleasant to read how both sides of the tragic citizen are being poured with mud" /////
---
I completely agree with you. Everyone saw their "truth".
Both sides committed cruelty. 100 years have passed. This is history, not ideology. It's time to reconcile.

[Each other]

Quote: Olgovich

Quote: Saling

And the hordes still go and do not know that they were defeated by "talent"

One should look at the State Flag of Russia over the Kremlin more often. And knowledge will come!

And I thought, where so much nonsense is in your head, and it turns out from a long look at the flag over the Kremlin.
We are all the old fashioned way, in books or archives we are looking for knowledge. And here is new technology. He lifted his head - and that’s it!
Does the neck hurt?

[Aviator_]

[/ quote] governing the country legally elected Constituent assembly [quote]

All this is interesting, however, why the founder of the author is legally elected, and the Soviets of workers, soldiers and peasants' deputies, therefore, are illegal from his point of view. Class contradiction.

[Catfish]

Quote: bober1982

Quote: igordok

To illustrate his passages, the author should have put these shots.

Kappel people mental attack, cheap sovdepovsky agitprop.
How could the Kappel people be dressed in the form of “Markov” fighters, who were part of the south of Russia.

Quite right, they are dressed in the uniform of the “color” division of General Markov. But this is not "propaganda": one of the directors of this magnificent film, i.e. one of the two Vasilyevs (they are not brothers) himself fought as a lieutenant in the “Markovtsy”. So he immortalized his favorite form, and himself with a cigarette in his teeth and with a stack in his left hand. I remember when we were boys, they laughed at the exact determination of the place of the best representatives of the Russian intelligentsia in the civil war.

[Mikhail Matyugin]

Quote: Sea Cat

But this is not "agitprop": one of the directors of this magnificent film, i.e. one of the two Vasilievs (they are not brothers) himself fought as a lieutenant in "Markovtsy". So he immortalized his favorite shape, and himself with a cigarette in his teeth and with a stack in his left hand. I remember that when we were boys we laughed at the precise definition of the place of the best representatives of the Russian intelligentsia in the civil war.

An amazing fact, I did not know about it ...

[Koshnitsa]

Bezrukov really looks like Kappel.

[kalibr]

Alexander Green,
And between a man and a woman. Professor Vybegallo also said ... yes?

[Alexander Greene]

Quote: kalibr

And between a man and a woman. Professor Vybegallo also said ... yes?

I have already answered you this question: in the questionnaires, instead of two columns "male" - "female" gender, the third column "third sex" or "it" will soon appear. This is the achievement of your favorite capitalism, in which you enjoy today ..

[voyaka uh]

There are tribes in which 3 genders are fixed and have names, and there are 5 genders.
This does not bother parents and members of the tribe. Capitalism has nothing to do with it. All gays and transvestites, and the like, were and are among all peoples at all times. And in the animal world from which we descended, it is very close.

[Each other]

Are you now telling us about your captivity?

[Each other]

voyaka uh,
Dreamers like you are not angry. You yourself made up everything about anger. Like about the Chinese mercenaries.
Firstly, with the collapse of the Republic of Ingushetia, the Tsar’s rubles turned into worthless candy wrappers,
secondly, everyone knows that the Chinese fought for the idea, like all the Bolsheviks. Apparently, due to your limitations, you cannot even understand how to fight for an idea. So you come up with "royal rubles", which no one in China accepted and carts with chests.

[Koshnitsa]

Quote: Saling

with the collapse of RI, the royal rubles turned into useless candy wrappers

Gold rubles is gold coins

[kalibr]

Quote: Alexander Green

at which you kicks today ..

Yes, and I really like it! Do you feel sorry for the dark masses? Well, pity them further. They will crawl out onto the barricades - otherwise there is no way to take power - then they will be met not by maxims, but by six-barreled machine guns.

[kalibr]

Quote: Saling

that the Chinese fought for the idea

Mala-mala eat it ... really eat it! That’s all their whole idea!