The unexpected war of Hitler's Germany with the USSR (part 16)

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The unexpected war of Hitler's Germany with the USSR (part 16)


Before continuing to analyze the chain of events, you will need to consider several documents. On June 19, the order of the People’s Commissar of Defense “On camouflaging airfields and major military facilities” was prepared. Some authors argue that on the basis of this order Aviation the western border districts were to disperse and mask by dawn on 22.6.41. Are they right?



Order of the Commissioner of Defense of the USSR №0042 19.6.41: "Nothing significant has been done so far to disguise airfields and major military facilities.

The airfield fields are not all planted, the take-off stripes for the color of the terrain are not painted, and the airfield buildings, standing out sharply in bright colors, attract the observer’s attention by tens of kilometers.

The crowded and linear arrangement of aircraft on airfields in the complete absence of their masking and poor organization of airfield service with the use of unmasking signs and signals finally unmask the airfield.

A modern aerodrome must completely merge with its surroundings and nothing at the aerodrome should attract attention from the air.

Artillery and mechanized units display a similar carelessness for disguise: the crowded and linear arrangement of their parks represents not only excellent objects of observation, but also targets that are advantageous for air strikes.

Tanks, armored vehicles, command and other special vehicles of motorized and other troops are painted with colors that give a bright reflection, and are well observed not only from air but also from the ground.

Nothing has been done to disguise warehouses and other important military installations.

I order:

1. TO 1.7.41 sow all airfields with grass to the color of the surrounding terrain, paint the runways and simulate the entire airfield environment according to the surrounding background.

2. Airfield buildings to the roofs inclusive paint over one style with the buildings surrounding the airfield. Gas storage bury in the ground and disguise very carefully.

3. Strictly prohibit the linear and crowded location of the aircraft; dispersed and disguised location of the aircraft to ensure their complete observability from the air.

4. Arrange to 5.7 in each airborne 500 km of the 8 – 10 border strip of false airfields, equip each of them with 40 – 50 aircraft mock-ups.

5. TO 1.7 to paint tanks, armored vehicles, command, special and transport vehicles. For camouflage coloring apply matte paint in relation to the location of areas of location and action. Strictly prohibit the use of paint, giving a reflection.

6. For districts within the threatened zone, to carry out the same measures to disguise: warehouses, workshops, parks and 15.7.41 ensure their complete observability from the air.

7. To carry out a masking of airfields, warehouses, combat and transport vehicles to check from the air by observing the responsible commanders of district headquarters and taking photographs. All defects revealed by them immediately eliminate.

8. Execution to convey 1.7 and 15.7.41 through the head GSh.

People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR Marshal of the Soviet Union S.Timoshenko.
Chief of General Staff, General of the Army Zhukov
».

First of all, we note that the order contains the dates 1 July, 5 July and 15 July, which do not match the date 22 June 1941 of the year. On the same day, the decree of the People's Commissar of Defense is approved in the resolution of the Council of People's Commissars. At the same time, the order of the People's Commissar of Defense to disguise the lanes sets the date for July 1, and the resolution of the CCN - July 20.

Resolution of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) "On the masking color of airplanes, runways, tents and airfield facilities»19.6.41:

«... 4. To oblige the chief of the State Air Force, t. Zhigareva:

a) to July 20 1941 of the year to paint all the planes in service with masking paint, in accordance with paragraph 1 of this Resolution, with the exception of the lower surface, which should be left with the same color;

b) to July 20 1941 of the year to disguise runways;

VC July 1 1941 of the year to mask the tents;

d) to July 30 1941 of the year to disguise airfield facilities.

5. Approve the order of NGOs - On the masking color of the aircraft and the camouflaging of the runways, tents and airfield facilities in the air force units ...

8. Charge Air force... to July 15 1941 years to make offers about the winter masking color of aircraft.

9. To oblige the NKVD after the construction of the runway, taxiways and anchorage of aircraft to disguise them by painting in relation to the background of the surrounding terrain.

Oblige nach. Air Force t. Zhigareva to July 10 1941 Mr. hand over to the NKVD technical conditions for masking runways, taxiways and anchorage of aircraft ...

Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR and General Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) I. Stalin
»

The next day comes the clarifying order Commissar of Defense.

Order of the Commissioner of Defense of the USSR №0043 20.6.41: "Airplanes that are in parts of the air force, runway, tents and airfield facilities throughout the color do not meet the requirements of modern disguise. Such an attitude to camouflage, as one of the main types of combat readiness of the Air Force, can no longer be tolerated.

I order:

1. TO 20.7.41 the aviation units, with the involvement of the aviation workshop workers, produce a masking coloration of all existing aircraft in accordance with the enclosed color scheme, with the exception of the lower surface, which is left with the same color.

2. TO 10.7.41 to mask all existing runways, concrete taxiways and anchorage of aircraft in relation to the background of the surrounding area.

3. TO 1.7.41 make masking of all airfield structures in relation to the background terrain.

4. TO 1.7.41 camouflage tents in the camps of aviation parts.

5. At the airfield aerodromes, the aircraft should be dispersed under natural and artificial shelters along the edges of the airfield, preventing them from being arranged in straight lines.

6. Responsibility for the implementation of all camouflage activities both in quality and in terms of time I assign to the Military Councils and personally to the commanders of the District Air Force.

7. Event Plan Report on 23 Jun 1941 Mr.

On the course of painting the aircraft to the commanders of the Air Force of the districts, report daily on the HF chief of the Main Command of the Air Force of the spacecraft from 21 hours to 23 hours.

People's Commissar of Defense of the USSR
Marshal of the Soviet Union S. Tymoshenko.
Member of the Main Military Council Secretary of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b) G. Malenkov.
Head of General Staff, General of the Army G.Zhukov
».

And again mismatched deadlines ... And they say the tyrant of all spread rot! We see that the military set deadlines that they want (they also show their initiative):

- in the resolution of the Council of People's Commissars on the masking of the bands, the date of July 20 is set, and in the new order of the People’s Commissar of Defense - July 10;

- In the resolution of the Council of People's Commissars on the masking of airfield facilities, the deadline is July 30, and in the new order, July 1;

- in terms of masking tents and applying a masking coloration, the terms in both documents coincide.

The question arises: when will both orders reach the air force units for execution? For example, the literary figure O. Yu. Kozinkin argues that if there are no deadlines, then this means immediately. Immediately - how is it? In a minute, in an hour, in a day or a month? A very incorrect explanation ... It is interesting, and when these orders were to reach the responsible persons?

Order Commissar of Defense from 19.6.41. Since the order concerns the Air Force, the ABTU, artillery units, warehouses, etc., then the order will be required to familiarize the Military Council of the District: the commander, the NSH and the EMF. Since the commander and the CWS often travel in parts and civil organizations, the order should be addressed to the deputy. commander and head of the political department (to make a decision in the event of the absence of the above-mentioned persons).

Further, the order will be addressed to the chiefs of the Air Force, ABTU, artillery and deputy. Commander for the rear. We understand that the chiefs themselves will not directly execute the orders of the People's Commissar, but will forward them to their subordinates. At the same time to report to the General Staff will have NSH district. Therefore, he additionally addresses this document to the Chief of Operations, who will appoint a responsible commander for collecting information from various services and preparing a reporting document for the District High School.

We have not yet reached the point of sending a military aircraft with an order in the army, where we have our own air force, armored vehicles and vehicles, artillery and warehouses. Then more instructions will go to the MK, CK, and Air Division ... Interestingly: for how long should everyone be familiarized and given orders?

With the order of the Commissar of 20.6.41 even worse - the application to the order is a coloring scheme. Therefore, this order will be sent not by STA, but by courier mail. And when he comes, for example, at least to the command of the districts?

Let's look at the order of the commander of the Kharkov VO, which also enters the threatened zone.

Note on masking objects of the Air Force, military units and warehouses: "1. By Air Force facilities. 1. A modern aerodrome must completely merge with its surroundings and nothing at the aerodrome should attract attention from the air.

2. At all aerodromes, the aircraft at anchorage are located dispersed along the boundaries of the airfields, with intervals of at least 100 meters between the aircraft. The linear arrangement of the aircraft, even when dispersed, does not allow ...

3. Aerodromes camouflage under the general background of the terrain, which is why before planting airfields with special varieties of grass, apply artificial camouflage for gardens, areas covered with bushes and individual trees. To build artificial roads through the airfields ...

District commander Lieutenant-General Smirnov.
ChVS districts corps commissioner Nikolaev.
NS District Major General Kolpachi
».

Document prepared by 22 Jun. Thus, the order of the People's Commissar of 19.6.41 reached the HVO only in the morning of June 22. And it is required to acquaint a long list of persons and prepare an order for the district. Well, in any way until the dawn of 22 June, the order of the People's Commissar could not be executed ... The People's Commissar of Defense and the head of the General Staff should have known, unlike the rear workers ...

The next day, prepared a new order on the HVO. Please note that after the start of the war in the order on the HVO and the word "immediately". Military people are well aware that if there are no deadlines, this does not mean immediately. And if immediately, then this particular word is added.

Order of the troops of the Kharkov VO № 0011 23.6.41 d. (22.6.41 printed): "In pursuance of the order of the National Commissioner of Defense against 19.6 № 0042,
I order
Immediately carry out air-masking activities based on the following:

1. Masking should be performed in accordance with the attached instructions (Annex No. 1).

2. All airfields and airfield buildings, gas storage facilities, military camps, camps and warehouses, artillery, tank fleets, as well as passenger and transport vehicles are subject to disguise.

3. To proceed to the camouflage activities immediately and finish:

... c) Camouflage coloring of combat, transport and passenger cars - to July 1 this year.

d) warehouses and military camps - to 15 July sg ...
»

It turns out that the orders of the People's Commissar of Defense from 19.6.41 and 20.6.41 could not reach the aviation units by dawn of 22 June and, consequently, lead to the dispersal of aircraft on airfields. Only in the event that the commander of the VO was concerned about what was happening on the border could he give the order to the commander of the Air Force about the dispersal of aviation. We considered such a situation earlier in PribOVO and saw that they had acted on their own initiative long before the preparation of the above orders of the People's Commissar of Defense. In OdVO, repeated exercises on the dispersal of aviation took place on the personal initiative of the NSh district, which also had not yet seen the said orders of the People's Commissar. In the LVO - the aircraft was not dispersed - orders did not reach the district commanders. Events in the Air Force ZOVOVO and KOVO will be covered in other parts of these districts.

Thus, it is impossible to associate the considered orders with the expectation of the top leadership of the SC of a full-scale war from the dawn of 22 on June 1941 of the year ... Therefore, when it comes to the betrayal of generals who did not follow orders from Moscow, the authors are cunning in their interests or they could not understand what is happening. ..

RM RO SOVOVO. In order to consider further events, attention should be paid to intelligence information of the RO of ZOVOV headquarters. Previously I want to bring a fragment of the book A.E. Golovanova, who had previously been used quite often when discussing the negligence of General Pavlov. Many readers in various forums were indignant at the carelessness or criminal negligence of the commander of ZAPOV, reading these lines: “...A few minutes later he was already talking to Stalin. He didn’t have time to say that he was calling about the submission of Golovanov, who is now with him, as from his answers I understood that Stalin was asking counter questions.

- No, Comrade Stalin, this is not true! I have just returned from the defensive lines. There is no concentration of German troops on the border, but my intelligence works well. I will check it again, but I think this is just a provocation. Well, Comrade Stalin ... What about Golovanov? Clear.

He put the phone down: “Not master in the spirit. Some bastard is trying to prove to him that the Germans are concentrating troops on our border
... »

Who among us could have thought then that in less than two weeks, how would Hitler bring down his main forces just to the area where Pavlov was at the head of the leadership of the troops? .. How could Pavlov, having intelligence and warnings from Moscow in his hands, to be in pleasant delusion remains secret... "

The conversation took place less than two weeks before the start of the war. Perhaps somewhere around the 10 number. The commander of Zapov was right about something - his intelligence worked no worse, and even better than the intelligence of other districts ... Let's try to figure out the RM.

From the materials given in the previous part, you already know that, according to the RU GSH, against ZOVOVO troops in the border zone From mid-May to the start of the war there were 30 German divisions. (including 1 md, 1 td and 6 tp (total 4 td)). Four so-called conditional TD was formed from TP without special and other parts. In addition, since 15 in May, the rate of concentration of German troops throughout the entire length of our border has sharply decreased.

You already know that intelligence posts of the GSG regularly come to the headquarters of ZOVOVO, and reports from the RO ZOVOVO also regularly leave for the GSH RU. Therefore, the distortion of the RM is simply impossible even theoretically, since additionally still receives information from the intelligence services of the NKGB and the NKVD. 1-2 times to distort more information can be risked, so to speak, health and life. But there were no traitors in the intelligence agencies...

Why did the author raise this question? This is due to the fact that some literary figures are putting forward their new version: RU GSH deliberately provided the wrong RM on the number of German divisions, but now RO ZAPOV correctly evaluated everything! The “traitor generals” are to blame ... And the memory is given as an example L.M. Sandalow: "At the end of the first week of June, the headquarters of our 4 Army, stationed in Kobryn, received information from the district headquarters that by June 5 concentrated more than 40 German divisions on the border of Belarus and that 15 rd, 5 etc., 2 md and 2 cd were concentrated on the Brest direction... »

How easy it is to be such a figure: I found a quote, and you can build any version on it - it will come to mind. The author of this cycle is more difficult: you have to somehow check the information ...

With RM, supplied by RO headquarters Zapovo, in fact, something is not right. The lack of complete texts of the Republic of Moldova does not allow to understand everything - the conclusions from them are not enough. Initially, we will try to construct the dependence of the change in the number of connections at the border according to the few data from the RO ZOVOVO. In the figure, the information on the RO SOVOVO is added to the dependencies you already know.



The figure shows that the number of divisions estimated by the RO of ZOVOV headquarters:

1) exceeds the same number of compounds according to RU GSH: in February-March - by 16%, at the beginning of May - by 30% and by the middle of June 1941 of the year - by 47%;

2) is more than 1 / 3 of the total number of divisions concentrated at our border;

3) has nothing to do with the change in the actual number of units in the border area opposite Zapovo troops. Perhaps RO ZAPOVO takes into account divisions for 400-500 km from the border? It is difficult to disprove the data of the Republic of Moldova.

For almost five months, RO VO overestimates the number of compounds as compared with the RG GSH data, and neither the RO nor RU nor change their data. And the data of the RS GSH are supported by the information of the NKGB and the NKVD. How can this be? Anarchy does not reign in subordinate headquarters ... This is possible only in one case: when these data are fairly close.

But how can the data be close, if they diverge strongly? This is possible if the PO of the headquarters Zapovo considers the territory of its responsibility to be larger than that considered by the GS GS. In this case, the total number of divisions defined by the RU and RO remains the same, but their number increases in the area of ​​responsibility of ZOVOVO. The district simply increased its area of ​​responsibility.

For example, the area of ​​responsibility of the RO of PribOVO headquarters was: on the left - Suwalki, Lykk, Allenstein and in depth - Konigsberg, Allenstein. ZOVOVO, on the other hand, “chopped up” a large area of ​​responsibility for itself: on the right — Suwalki, Heilsberg; on the left - Vlodawa, Deblin. If you look at the reconnaissance information of the RO ZOVOVO, you can see that they contain information on German troops stationed in Koenigsberg, in Danzig, in the Czech Republic, against KOVO troops and even in Romania. The cities of ~ód (~ 280 km to the border) and Poznan (~ 424 km to the border), as well as other settlements located more than 150 km from the border or in the PribOVO area of ​​responsibility are mentioned repeatedly. The figure shows the specified areas of responsibility of districts and settlements, which are marked in the Republic of Moldova RO ZOVOVO (some points are outside the map).



Attention is drawn to the “cover” of the responsibility zones of RO PribOVO and ZOVOVO, as well as the absence of a depth limit for ZOVOVO. Is this right or not? It is difficult to say why RU GSH did not specify the specified limits ...

According to the General Staff, from the Suwalki bulge, the most critical areas (directions of possible strikes) were:

a) towards ZOVOVO: Suwalki - Lida and Suwalki - Bialystok;

b) in the direction of PribOVO: Suwalki - Olita.

Thus, in the direction of Zapovo, two times more possible strikes were considered from the ledge and, therefore, twice more troops could be required to invade. PribOVO “slaughtered” part of the territory from which German troops could approach for two strikes against ZOVOVO. At the same time, ZOVOVO attributed part of the formations that the RUGHG attributed to the troops opposing PribOVO to the forces opposing themselves.

The first reason for the increase in the number of troops against Zapovo (regarding the reports of the GS GS) is the increase in the zone of their responsibility on the front, the second reason is the increase in the zone in depth. What else is alarming in RM RO ZOVOVO? This is incorrect information, as well as from all other intelligence services. Perhaps this is the result of German disinformation.

For example, the intelligence service RO ZOVOVO 20.4.41: "The German command made a significant redeployment of troops against Zapov, pulling troops from the Mlava-Warsaw meridian directly to the state border line, reinforcing the grouping with mostly motorized and tank units... "

The problem is that massively German troops from the said “meridian” began to be moved to the border only after mid-May, but not since mid-April, when the RM received for the report. It is hard to say what kind of transportation the district intelligence service recorded, but this is not the transfer of divisions to the border. And especially not a massive transfer ... Ie the information provided by RO ZOVOVO could have been as erroneous or thrown up by the German command, as was the information of the GS GS.

In other parts of the cycle, we saw how incorrect information was provided by the intelligence services of NGOs, NKGB and NKVD. Is it so possible that everyone is mistaken, and ZapovO’s intelligence with “x-ray vision” revealed the entire German grouping and provides only truthful information? Of course not. RM, which the Germans throw up, should also have been reflected in the information of RO ZOVOVO.

Intelligence Service RO Headquarters ZOVOVO 5.6.41: "According to agents and other sources ... the grouping of German troops in the area against ZOVOVO ... on 5 June 1941 is defined in 29-30 pd, 2-4 md, one cd and two cavalry brigades, .. and, presumably, two armored division of the SS...

Marked the arrival of new parts: in Suwalki - two selected armored divisions SS (requires verification)... »

Two selected td SS. This is a good result for intelligence and should be, checked as soon as possible! Why? Because as of 1.5.41 against the troops, Zapovo (according to its RM) counted: “28-29 rd, 7-8 tank. regiments, 3-4 md, up to three cd ... "

Again we see several TPs and not a single tank division! We have repeatedly discussed the issue of the presence of German tank battalions and regiments in bulk, which are quite simply converted by scouts into conventional ones without headquarters, special units, artillery, communications, support units, etc. etc. Does anyone really believe that our generals will guess by means of a fortune-telling on the cards that the uk and the indicated conditional TDs will turn into real high-grade uk and tank groups? Interesting: how quickly clarified information about the arrival of full-fledged SS?

In the last peaceful intelligence headquarters of RO ZOVOVO (21.6.41) states: "In the range ... presumably two SS divisions ..."In addition to these two td ss against troops, Zapovo is listed as 5 td, four of which evolved from 7-8 mn. Those. With the arrival of the SS divisions, the number of full-fledged units increased threefold, but it was not possible to confirm their presence by reconnaissance services of the Zapovo and Pribovo guards, the GS GS, the NKGB and the NKVD border guards. Was it possible to believe in Moscow data that is not confirmed by any other source, including the intelligence itself Zakovo? Of course not. Intelligence does not believe data that is not confirmed by other sources and is contrary to common sense. It turns out that RM ZOVOVO caused doubts in its credibility in Moscow ...

In addition to inaccurate information (according to the RS GSH), in the area of ​​responsibility of Zapovo (as well as in the areas of responsibility of other districts), substantial transfers of German troops took place and it was very problematic to track all their movements. But in ZOVOVO they were tracked ...

Intelligence Service RO Headquarters ZOVOVO 1.5.41: "Presumably, during the period of movement of troops (March — April), separate units and formations departed from the strip against Zapov, and therefore the deployment of units in the garrisons of Suwalki, Sedlec, Biala Podlaska, Warsaw requires careful rechecking ... "

Intelligence Service RO Headquarters ZOVOVO 1.4.41: “Over the past month, the German command has increased the grouping of troops against ZAPOVO by two or three PD, two TP and one motorcycle battalion, at the same time replacing a number of units - the 12 and 217 PD headquarters; 86, 93, 103, 125, 203, 235, 500, 504, 506, 507 PP; 27, 45, 211 an and 94 CP, descending to the south, by the new arrivals: headquarters 9, 11, 34 front; 5, 12, 23, 134, 135, 136, 316, 402, 514, 903 PP and up to five PP, not set numbering; 18 and 248 ap, 28 regiment of communication, 616 mp, 11 sappolk ...
»

The accuracy is striking: in addition to five items, all numbers of parts and connections are installed. Either reconnaissance works perfectly or the German servicemen walk with posters ... But if the RO leadership is “not put in place”, then in general the information they supply should not contradict the information of the General Staff.

Let us consider the question of the reliability of the RM RO ZAPOVO from the reverse. If the RO correctly reflected the information in its area of ​​responsibility for a long time, then in the last intelligence report the information should be reliable. The last intelligence service of the RO of ZOVOVO headquarters was drawn up on the last peaceful Saturday. Consider only information about the presence of motorized and tank forces.

Intelligence Service RO Headquarters ZOVOVO 21.6.41: "1. East Prussian direction ... Two MD (data PribOVO) ... presumably two SS divisions.
2. Mlavskoe direction. ... Until one MD; up td ...
3. Warsaw direction. ... Two etc ...; one md ...; four armored regiment ...
4. Deblin direction. ... Until two td, ... five armored regiments, ... up to two md ...
».

Simplified distribution of German troops in front of Zapovo in the areas before the start of the war is shown in the figures.







According to the RO against troops Zapovo is available up to 13 td and md, as well as 9 armored regiments. Did you notice anything strange? In the direction of Warsaw - Brest in two directions according to the RO there is 4 TD and 9 armored regiments...

And how many TP and so on actually was in this direction? 2-I tank group on 21.6.41 consisted of 24 MK (3 td (6 tp), 4 td (35 tp), 10 md, 1 cd), 47 mk (17 td (39 tp), 18 td) tp), 18 md) and in reserve 28 micron (20 td (46 tp), md SS "Das Reich", pp "Grossdeutschland"). In total, the entire 2 tank group had 6 TP, and according to intelligence data ZOVOVO there were at least 13 (if we consider one tp in each division). What kind of credibility of the RM after that? Once again, it should be noted that neither the tank groups nor the MK were detected by the intelligence agency RO Zapovo.

According to intelligence data, there are four TDs and 9 TPs in the Brest region, but even from the location of these moto-tank forces, according to the General Staff, two strikes could be made in the directions of Brest-Baranovichi and Sedlec-Volkovysk.



Those. the mobile forces were to be divided into two groups. Only we do not know whether these groups were identical in composition, in the opinion of our GSH or not. And in the directions of these blows they stand on one of our microns, and in the depth of one more micron they counteract this threat. And one moment. The specified tank divisions and regiments can be subordinated only to the headquarters of the army corps. After all, there are no other headquarters for their leadership near the border, and the AK does not have structures to support these divisions. And much more is not necessary for mobile groups ...

Let us return once more to the memories of L.M. Sandalova about RM, which dated 5 June. The material for this report should have been received somewhere on June 3-4. We know that almost all MD and so on began to move to the border since June 6 (of course, not all at the same time). Those. at the time of receipt of materials for the report, these compounds were located at a distance of hundreds of kilometers from our border, because they were located much further than the Mlava-Warsaw meridian. According to the General Staff, there are four directions of strikes by the German troops on ZOVOV: two on the front and two near Brest. Where the troops were supposed to move from the RPD, this is a question, the answer to which until June 5 was unknown not only to our intelligence service, but also to the majority of the officers of the German army ...

We will continue consideration of materials received from intelligence services.

16.6.41 handed over the British leadership to the Soviet ambassador in London, I.M. May map with the scheme of the German grouping near the Soviet borders. According to these data, there were 76 divisions in Poland (of which 2 tank and 2 were motorized), in Romania, Hungary and Slovakia, 29 divisions (of which 4 tank and 2 were motorized), the transfer of 2 divisions in Baltic and 2 divisions was still assumed. Northern Finland. The diagram shows the total 109 of the German divisions.

It is impossible not to recognize the high accuracy of the data of British intelligence on the total number of German troops in the East, but their information about the number of tank and motorized divisions was significantly underestimated. It is not clear whether the British intelligence also was not able to "reveal" the German MD and so on, or deliberately provided the USSR with disinformation, replacing the so on with the DD ...

At that time, this information was considered misinformation from the "sworn friend". If we recall the text from the diary of Gebels on disinformation on the invasion of England, it is clear that the leadership of the USSR found it difficult to believe in these RMs ...

Consider intelligence data on the number of enemy troops on the southern flank.

P.A. Sudoplatov: "We overestimated the grouping of German troops opposing us in the south-west, as a result of which the law firm was forced to withdraw in early July. Despite the very serious network of agents we had in Romania, mythical information was obtained about the considerably superior forces of the Germans and Romanians in the South, consisting of 40 front and 13, etc.

The incorrect assessment of our intelligence situation in Bessarabia, as the People's Commissar of State Security of Moldova self-critically told me, later the head of the special department of the Law Faculty N. Sazykin, at the critical moment of the start of the war led to the low effectiveness of the actions of the law forces of the LF, despite the fact that the enemy was not superior . Undoubtedly, this had an adverse impact on the development of events in the entire South-West direction ...
»

According “Note on the action plan of the OdVO troops” (June 1941 of the year): "In total, on the territory of Romania is available on 31.5.41: 40-45 pd and md, 4 cd, 4 gsbr and 2 etc., of which (data require verification) Germanic 17 pd and md and 2 td... "Just before 19 German divisions. In accordance with Intelligence RU GSH on 1.6.41 in Moldova and Northern Dobrudja there were 17 German divisions (including 4 md and 2 etc.).

The figure shows a schematic map with a ratio of forces to 17.6.41. According to these materials in Romania, there were 14-16 German divisions at the border, including up to 7 md and so on. In fact, it was 9 PD, of which 2 was in the 1 echelon. We see that from 1-th to 17-June, the German group, according to intelligence, remained virtually unchanged.



According to RU GSH, the transfer of German divisions from Bulgaria to Romania began in June with 19-20. After the start of the war, updated materials were received on the number of troops in Romania. For example, the number of enemy groupings in the area of ​​Stefaneshty was determined in the 9-10 divisions (including 5-6 etc. and md), although in reality there were only 5 front and 5 brigades (including TBR). Intelligence counted 900-960 tanks in the area. In fact, there were about 60. The strike of the “discovered tank group” was waited until the beginning of July ...

We considered the mythical grouping on the southern flank of our border. And now consider the undetected grouping on the northern flank.

Intelligence headquarters PribOVO (a summary is given in the 7 part) from 18.6.41: "On 17.6.41 v. PribOVO ... installed: army headquarters - 2, AK headquarters - 6, pd - 12, md - 5, td - 1, tp - 5 and up to 9 individual TB - just at least td, kn - 6-7 , Sat - 17, airplanes - over 500... "In more detail this grouping is shown in the two figures below.





From the pictures you can see:

- Directly close to the border of PribOVO, only a small part of the troops are concentrated in the form of a certain number of PB and four regiments in the zone of the Suvalki lug. The bulk of the troops is located at a sufficiently large distance from the border;

- the city of Suwalki has three divisional headquarters and a total of up to 8 regiments at a distance of 20-25 km from the border. These troops should be distributed in three strike groups, forces for which is not enough. Consequently, additional troops must still approach the area;

- one more grouping of troops is concentrated near the city of Gumbinnen (the distance to the border is about 30 km);

- a large group of troops stationed in Tilcite (distance to the border 20-25 km);

- The reinforced divisional group is deployed in Memele.

In order to concentrate troops remote from the border on the initial lines for an attack, it takes up to two days for infantry formations and theoretically a day for TD and MD, located in the area of ​​responsibility of RO PribOVO. Given the huge number of vehicles in md and td and a limited number of roads - one day may not be enough ...

It should be noted that the reconnaissance detected only one full-fledged TD and not a single MK headquarters, tank groups, and the headquarters of Army Group North were found.

In the above report, 18 of the German divisions is noted, and taking into account the individual battalions and regiments, their total number can be estimated to 20. In accordance with the Republic of Uzbekistan, the number of German divisions against PribOVO is 29. Missing divisions are located west of the PribOVO area of ​​responsibility. According to the RS GSH near 17.6.41 / 1, groups of German troops planned for military operations with PribOVO are deployed on 3 deployed at a depth of more than 100-120 km.

There is one more document of the Regional Office of the PribOVO headquarters, which is blamed for the NSH of the PS district. Maple. The indictment states: "In sabotage activities caught testimony... "Among the witnesses are three intelligence officers of PribOVO headquarters. The document is called: "On the grouping of forces and means of German troops in East Prussia to 18-00 21.6.41". Ten hours before the start of the war ... Many saw him, but did not work hard with him ...



It seems to be true, there are significant forces and a large number of tanks - 2473. In the 18 th army, in the 3 th and 4 th tank groups there were about 1735 tanks. Of course, intelligence data may differ from real ones. Please note that the report does not indicate the direction of possible enemy strikes, and in the RO calculations, all German forces are “smeared” on the front, i.e. are given on 1 km front. Among other things, "spread" on the front and the main military equipment of the shock groups: tanks and armored vehicles. In fact, there are no mobile groups ...

Do you know how many tanks are in a German tank regiment according to this document? You can’t guess exactly, although you are well versed in such documents ... Look at the figure below for the number of tanks in TP, and if you don’t believe your eyes, look at one more picture below. How can this be?





Let us recall the old RMs with an indication of the presence of 133 tanks in TB, as well as information from illegal agents on the inclusion of individual TB in the MD. And then we will carry out simple calculations (shown in the figure below) using the above-mentioned document "On the grouping of forces ..."



According to intelligence from 18.6.41, in East Prussia it was reported: md - 5, td - 1, tp - 5, 9 individual TB. In the picture above we have one td, four md, which include one TB each. The fifth MD is divided in three directions on one MP. Not enough five tb. I wonder where are they? And they are hidden in the notes to the document: "Note: 1. Tank corps battalions were not taken into account."And according to the Republic of Moldova, we have six AKs in East Prussia. One of them was not lucky - did not get the battalion of tanks. According to the results of calculations, everything is the same. We even know: how many tanks in a German armored division - even 291. Bad that this is completely untrue. Even worse, this document distorted the picture for the PribOVO command.

See for yourself. The first enumeration of the enemy troops: more than three PD, MP, TP, CP and artillery units. We have an infantry grouping of three divisions, reinforced by one MP and one TP. How much will this group stomp on the depth, for example 250 km? Remember this figure, we talked about it in the first parts of the cycle? The document only confirms that the Germans do not have large mobile groups and will move slowly or in a couple of directions quickly in our territory, but not for a long time ....

This and this document is bad, in which there is no micron and, accordingly, there are no powerful mobile groups. Peter Semenovich Klenov did not sign this “tuft” document. He even regretted the scouts when he signed intelligence on 21 on June 1941. He simply instructed them to verify intelligence information without waiting for the start of the war at dawn the next day. There are no large groups of Germans near the border!

Intelligence No.02 to 20-00 21.6.41 PribOVO headquarters. The text of the summary was given in the 8 part. Below are presented in the pictures of the location of the German parts according to this report.



[/ Center]

From the figures it is clear that 8 hours before the start of the war:

- the concentration of German troops near the border with PribOVO was not noted again. At a distance of about 10 km from the border, there are only four TB. Another part of the motorcycle and armored units is located in 15-20 km;
- again there are no pronounced shock groups near the border. The grouping concentrated near the city of Gambinnnen can also be redeployed to the Suwalki bulge, which corresponds to the concept of attacking Germany against the USSR in the opinion of the General Staff;

- the headquarters of the MK and tank groups were not found again;

- near the border with PribOVO there are no headquarters of German troops at all. An exception is the possible location of the 61 headquarters in 10 km from the border. The nearest AK headquarters is located in 20 km. If there are no headquarters near the attacking troops, then how can these troops be led? The number of aircraft has not changed significantly (on 17.6.41 - more than 500, on 21.6.41 - 583).

A significant part of the regiments and formations disappeared somewhere from the zone of attention of our intelligence, but intelligence was instructed to sort out this question: “...Do the parts that are not indicated in this report continue to be noted earlier (our intelligence report No. 15 from 18.6.41 g. "

If you look again at the dislocation of the German troops shown in the figures, then you can only conclude about the possible provocations of the German troops in the area of ​​Klaipeda and the Suvalka outcry against PribOVO. In other places, the German units near the Baltic border are too few. There are also few of our troops near the border.

According to the disposition of the German troops shown in the figures, nothing can be said about the possible the beginning of a full-scale war through 8 hours...

We have already considered the presence of the German motorcycle tank divisions near the border of Zapovo. There is also no large groups.

We now turn to KOVO, against which there is the last tank group. What did intelligence find there?

The best thing about intelligence information can tell the staff officer of the 5-th army, concentrated against this group.

A.V. Vladimirsky (Head of the 1 Division of the Operations Division of 5 A Headquarters):On the concentration of large German fascist forces on the border with KOVO, the bulk of which concentrated on the Tomashevsk-Sandomir direction, i.e. in front of the front of the 5 Army, it was also noted in the intelligence reports of the KOVO headquarters, but the conclusions about the objectives of this concentration were wrong. Thus, in the intelligence survey of KOVO headquarters No. 3 from 20 of June 1941, it was stated that “a large movement of all branches of the armed forces and transports ... pursues some kind of demonstrative purpose or is connected with the holding of exercises».

The composition, numbering and location of enemy formations were not precisely and fully revealed by our intelligence. So, before the 5 th army, only 15 enemy divisions, including only 2 td. In fact, it was 21 division, including 5 TD. Concentration of the 1 Tank Group in front of the 5 Army, as well as the headquarters of Army Group South and the 6 Army in front of KOVO not noted at all... »

The author came to the similar conclusions of General A.V. Vladimirsky, which he did a few decades ago, independently. It turned out that it has long been known, but nobody needs it ...

How to sell your books? Looking for a sensation, the highest person in the state and mystery.

For example, there is a mention of reconnaissance flight in June 1941 of the year in the book GN. Zakharova “I am a fighter”: “Somewhere in the middle of the last prewar week — it was either 17 or 18 on June 1941 — I received an order from Zapov’s aviation commander to fly over the western border. The length of the route was about four hundred kilometers, and was to fly from south to north - to Bialystok.

I flew to the U-2 with the navigator 43 th Major Rumyantsev. Border areas west of the state border were clogged with troops. In the villages, on the farms, in the groves stood poorly camouflaged, if not completely camouflaged tanks, armored vehicles, guns. Motorcycles darted along the roads, cars — apparently, staff ones — cars. Somewhere in the depths of the vast territory, a movement was born, which here, near our border, was slowed down, resting on it, as if it were an invisible barrier, and it was just about to overlap through it.

The number of troops recorded by our eyes, at first glance, did not leave me any other options for reflection, except for one thing: the war is near. Everything that I saw during the flight was layered on my previous military experience, and the conclusion I made for myself could be formulated in four words - “from day to day” ...

We flew then a little more than three hours. I often put the plane on any suitable site, which might seem random if the border guard did not immediately approach the plane. The border guard appeared silently, silently took the visor and waited for a few minutes while I wrote a report on the wing. Having received the report, the border guard disappeared, and we again rose into the air and, having traveled 30-50 kilometers, sat down again. And again I wrote a report, and the other border guard waited silently and then, with a salute, disappeared silently. By evening, thus, we flew to Bialystok and landed in the location of the Sergey Chernykh division.

In Bialystok, the deputy commander of Zapov, General I.V. Boldin analyzed the recently completed exercises. I briefly reported to him about the results of the flight, and that same evening, on the fighter plane provided to me by Blacks, flew to Minsk ... "


Martirosyan and Kozinkin came up with a fantastic version without a single confirmation: you can find out more in the article "Repetition".

Their creation: "And now do not think for burdensome work to think deeply into the essence of what Stalin and Beria actually did. After all, before you is a brilliant description of lightning carried out aerial reconnaissance along the entire borderline of ZOVOVO! And not just aerial reconnaissance, but carried out in real time. Because every 30 – 50 km Zakharov planted an airplane and wrote an urgent report, and the border guards who knew in advance about the arrival of such an aircraft silently received and sent Zakharov’s report. Moreover. In real-time, but within one daylight, integrated intelligence information was collected about the Wehrmacht’s military preparations for an attack on the USSR in the most dangerous direction from the point of view of the Soviet leadership - Belarusian! The scale of the entire border SOVOVO!»

What can the author add to what is written about them in this article? First of all, this: German td and md were located behind 20-30 km from the border, disguised in the forests and landings. In the multi-colored paint tanks are not painted to facilitate our intelligence detection capabilities. Perhaps the rear men simply do not know ...

In the area of ​​the village of Korolino (in 6 km southwest of the city of Grodno), the 10-th separate aviation squadron subordinate to the border guards of the NKVD BSSR was stationed. The squadron consisted of four air lines of three P-10 reconnaissance aircraft each. Aircraft 10-nd Dep. The squadron of the NKVD Border Guards flew daily around the border in the north almost to Klaipeda and in the south within KOVO. Daily back and forth. It was not possible only to find out whether the same crew was returning back, or he stayed overnight at the end point of the route.

The next oddity is the frequent landing of the commander of the 43 iad Zakharov every 30-50 km. The figures came up with a fantastic version that information was transmitted online to Stalin. Cool, no one wrote. Das East Fiction ... It turns out that such frequent landings were in the practice of flying pilots, border guards. During the landings, they wrote reports that were delivered to those responsible for intelligence in the commandant's offices and border patrols. Further, they were included in the Republic of Moldova and were sent at the instance, being included in the generalized new intelligence materials. These reports were not sent to Stalin, and after the boundaries went to the State Border Guards of the NKVD and then to Beria. In the accepted procedure for conducting reconnaissance and clearance, Zakharov also took part. Zakharov was probably involved in this flight at the request of the leadership of the Belarusian border area (to support his observations by the commander of the spacecraft). Therefore, he handed over secret reports to the border guard - a soldier of another department, as was previously accepted. After arriving in Bialystok and then in Minsk, he did not make reports for the RO district. So fool the readers ...
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  1. +12
    9 August 2018 05: 30
    Thanks to the author for an interesting article.
    1. +4
      9 August 2018 10: 58
      Thank you, very nice)))
      1. 0
        12 January 2019 13: 57
        As for the completeness of the Red Army divisions, in military units, artillery and equipment, these indicators were closest to the approved states in 1941 than in 1945. The average number of first-line rifle divisions in 1941 was approx. 8000, and 1945 - approx. 6000. In artillery, the shortage was also large, but the mech gear was in much better condition, and the ammunition was worked out, the shells were better and in full set, the sights were better, the training of commanders and crews was much better, air cover, communications and engineering support, etc. .P. The main thing - coordination of combat interaction was an order of magnitude better. And betrayal, most importantly, was not!
      2. 0
        13 January 2019 20: 53
        12 MK - Hull headquarters and hull parts - Soltsy. As of 8.7.41, all over the corps we have the dead, wounded and missing:
        Commanding officers of 755 people
        Junior commanders 1 213 people
        The rank and file of 9 973 people
        Total 11 941 people
        Among the missing there are whole groups taken at the front from the units by separate orders of senior commanders.
        Hull headquarters and hull parts - Soltsy.
      3. -22
        6 January 2022 13: 06
        Quote: aKtoR
        Thank you,


        Simplified distribution of German troops in front of Zapovo in the areas before the start of the war is shown in the figures.

        All your drawings and stunning conclusions about the data of our intelligence, based only on the summary of the ZAPOVO for June 21, and a penny do not stand in front of a genuine map of the grouping of German troops for June 20 on the entire border.
        When you were composing your opuses, you didn’t know that the archives of the presidential library would be digitized and published in the public domain, and therefore they presented your fantasies as facts.
        Enlighten yourself, even now you will find out that our intelligence has definitely revealed the entire grouping of German troops and the General Staff knew about it:

        https://www.prlib.ru/item/1320066?mode=rusmarc
        By the way, as I have said many times, the General Staff is only interested in divisions, armies and their groups. On the map of the General Staff, everything is exactly like that, so your groans that some regiment is not indicated or not found, and it is not worth a damn.
        1. +4
          6 January 2022 17: 05
          First of all, you took the map given by you, as well as maps about the 16th army from the links from my article. So why should I be educated about the materials that I have carefully studied ??
          Try to prove that you discovered these cards before posting links in my article!

          Second. The data shown on the map practically coincided with my calculations, which are also given in the article before the publication of the maps and a year and a half ago in the article on intelligence. You just can't analyze and count ...

          Third. Our intelligence was unable to obtain accurate data on the German groupings and this follows from the map. You, as a person who do not have military knowledge, simply cannot figure it out.
          For example, from the sheet attached to the map, it follows that a total of 41 tank and motorized divisions could be used against the USSR. Of these, in Romania and in the southern part of Poland, according to the data on the map, there are 28 of these divisions, which is 69% of the German tank and motorized divisions.
          In fact, in southern Poland and to the south, there were 9 tank and motorized divisions as part of the 1st Panzer Group. Intelligence was wrong more than 3 times. This is a gross mistake!

          Against the PribOVO and ZAPOVO, reconnaissance counted to the maximum 13 tank and motorized divisions. In fact, there were up to 24 of them. And this is also a gross mistake!

          At the place where the 4th Panzer Group entered, reconnaissance discovered one tank and two motorized divisions, and there were six of them! Another blunder!

          At the place where the 3rd tank group entered, the reconnaissance found two motorized divisions and a tank battalion. In fact, there were 7 divisions at the point of entry of the tank group! A gross mistake that led to the defeat of our troops in the sector of the entry of German mobile troops!

          At the place where the 2nd tank group entered, the reconnaissance found 2 tank regiments and a tank brigade. Tanks into two tank divisions according to intelligence, but without motorized artillery and motorized infantry.
          In fact, there were 9 armored motorized divisions!
          An unforgivable mistake that led to the encirclement of the ZAPOVO troops !!!

          At the place where the 1st tank group entered, the reconnaissance found one tank division and three motorized divisions. In fact, there were 9 of them! Incorrect intelligence data led to the defeat of the mechanized corps of the South-Western Front ...
          An unforgivable mistake!

          Do you consider the intelligence data reliable, which led to the defeat of our troops at the border? !! Then our European and overseas partners will be happy to applaud you!

          You write that “I have repeatedly said that the General Staff is only interested in divisions, armies and their groups. On the map of the General Staff, everything is exactly like that, so your groans that some regiment is not indicated or not found, and it’s not worth a damn .. . "

          I replied that your knowledge does not allow you to draw any conclusions.
          The inscription "tank battalion" is clearly marked on the Suvalka ledge, to the west, in different regions, there are four more "tank regiments".
          A similar situation is with Brest - there are no tank divisions there.
          1. -19
            6 January 2022 17: 26
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            First of all, you took the map given by you, as well as maps about the 16th army from the links from my article.

            This once again confirms that you are a forger and a liar, since you knew about this map and lied about the route of the 16th Army. The degree of your lies will not change from this, wherever I find this card.
            And your articles are too illiterate and primitive for me to believe you, knowing how you can lie to please your point of view.
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            Try to prove that you discovered these cards before posting links in my article!
            I discussed these cards with Kozinkin long before you - you thought too much of yourself, although I have already told you more than once that you are too illiterate for me to refer to your fantasies. But the point is not in this, but in the fact that when you lied about the route of the 16th Army, you did not see these maps, and now you cheaply fell for lies along with Chekunov and Isaev.

            Quote: AsmyppoL
            Third. Our intelligence was unable to obtain accurate data on the German groupings and this follows from the map.

            This is a heinous lie, because the map shows not only divisions, but also armies and army groups of the Wehrmacht with reference to the terrain. The General Staff does not need any other data - they are interested in the general picture, and not in your fantasies about some battalion.
            Quote: AsmyppoL
            Do you consider the intelligence data reliable, which led to the defeat of our troops at the border? !! Then our European and overseas partners will be happy to applaud you!

            You are just a pathetic falsifier of our military history, and now you are trying to get out after you and your group were caught in yet another lie.
            Will you refute the map that I brought?
            How about your lies that the General Staff did not have any information about the German groupings on June 22 from the General Staff of the General Staff, but there was only one intelligence report No. 5? How will you dodge with this card?
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. +3
    9 August 2018 08: 58
    Transfusion from empty to empty: Soviet intelligence (even incorrect) at all levels testified to the Wehrmacht’s readiness for the June 1 to attack the USSR at any time - testified; what was done tactically by the High Command and the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces to repel the invasion’s mobile groups — nothing.

    Then why write 16 articles about the details of doing nothing?
    1. VS
      -2
      9 August 2018 09: 38
      Not this way))))
      ALL that is NECESSARY - it was completely done)))

      Anonymous Madame, which is essentially a reason, is stupid and tries to impose the idea that nothing was really done because the attack on June 22 was not expected, and if someone did it, it was solely on the PERSONAL initiative of fearless heroes and simply good Kuznetsov people that the tyrant would then shoot in batches for that apparently the initiative))) And our madame is hiding behind a clique because in essence - she’s Razun’s nonsense here and she puts it in the end - they did not wait for the ATTACK on June 22 because they were the first to attack in August - for example - as halders later claimed in Nuremberg )))
      See what nonsense she is talking about about camouflage directives NOT ONLY the Air Force, but ALL equipment and troops !!! Which went after the camouflage directives that left the troops since spring - "" Nothing has been done to camouflage warehouses and other important military installations. "

      And here is what our anonymous cheers carry:
      - the attack on June 22 was not expected because it was ordered to paint the planes green already by July 20 !!
      Our anonymous cheer stupidly does not understand that TO DYE THOUSANDS of airplanes a couple of days before the attack is DIFFICULT !! And the fact that the period of painting (and airplanes and grass))) is worth a month in advance, this is a primitive period of REAL opportunity to paint these aircraft and no more)))

      This cheer writes - "Some authors argue that, on the basis of this order, the aviation of the western border districts should have been dispersed and masked by dawn on 22.6.41/XNUMX/XNUMX. Are they right?"

      But her head doesn’t come to her to carefully read the TEXT of the directive - the order part))) In which there are points for execution with dates and there are - WITHOUT dates !!

      And any military man will tell you - if the date is not indicated in the order, then IT IS NECESSARY to execute - IMMEDIATELY !!!)))

      Especially SUCH)))):
      "" 3. Strongly forbid the linear and crowded layout of aircraft; dispersed and camouflaged arrangement of aircraft to ensure their complete unobservability from the air. "")))

      And then Madame and carries nonsense))

      . "" For example, the literary figure O.Yu. Kozinkin argues that if there is no deadline, then that means immediately. Immediately - how is it? In a minute, in an hour, in a day or in a month? A very incorrect explanation ... I wonder, when did these orders reach the responsible persons? ""

      Unlike Madame, I served in the army and I am not a literary figure like she hiding behind a clique, but a military pensioner - and immediately - it means IMMEDIATELY. And to the commander that the idiot will turn on the type he did not understand what it means - the military prosecutor and the security officer will then explain everything in the basement of the NKVD)))

      Kopets at 1.30 on June 22 reported to Pavlov - ALL of his planes ACCORDING to Timoshenko’s directives and are dispersed and disguised !!))) That is, unlike an anonymous lady, Kopts understood what this means - immediately)))

      The rest of her anonymous attempts to explicitly prove that Germany’s attack was not expected in Moscow, but apparently they themselves wanted to attack July 20 — they were already tired of commenting))) here, in general, nobody especially reads her ladies' nonsense)))

      But pay attention - the lady KNOWLEDGE does not want to show - and WHAT really happened in the number districts since June 10)) She pops the bulletins and rubs them stupidly who there "thought" in the Kremlin or the General Staff but what was done in those days on these bulletins - DOES NOT SHOW and does not want to show in haste.

      In general - you want Daragoy Anedrey to find out what REALLY HAPPENED IN THESE days - I can drop fresh research on your mailbox - that the owners of this site did not want to publish))) preferring anonymous attempts to dump it on the average man)))
      1. +6
        9 August 2018 10: 08
        Mussia, the author of the articles, is absolutely right at the base: in the minds of the military-political leadership of the USSR there was a complete mess as of 22 on June 1941.
        1. VS
          0
          9 August 2018 13: 23
          and WHO told you that there was a mess and - WHO did he have?

          Or maybe it’s still easier to act - to look at what HAS really been done and was done by June 21 instead of thinking up on the reports - who was there who “thought” in the Kremlin and the General Staff?
        2. +2
          10 August 2018 22: 24
          there was no mess that they could-did
          this was not enough.
          "the level of development of productive forces and production relations" is lower now
          SM MERCEDES-VW and viburnum-Gazelle
      2. +9
        9 August 2018 10: 50
        I don’t understand what you’re trying to prove.
        the density of troops at the border guaranteed unstable defense, even in ideal conditions
        Apparently, Shaposhnikov and other leaders of the headquarters forgot about the lessons of 1812, when a divided army with torment was gathered together for several weeks.
        motorized parts are guaranteed to break through with the surroundings and other joys of the blitzkrieg. This was aggravated by the fact that there were no resources to train the army, which grew about 2 times at the expense of recruits and could not train the army in a short time, the situation was worse with the commander link - the lack of experience was quite experienced - about 2/3. In addition, there was a massive shortage of funds that directly affect combat effectiveness - shells, fuel, equipping with FITNESS pieces of equipment, and even somewhere with the organization of allowances. There were problems in the technology - the endurance of tanks, tractors and their reliability, the completeness of anti-tank equipment and tanks with high-quality armor-piercing and anti-caliber shells, aircraft engines, high-octane fuel, even paint - it was impossible to carry out an order to mask and paint aerodromes even by half, communications (especially low quality batteries , stock of lamps, poor quality of cable insulation).
        All this, if collected, the difference in the STRENGTH (not the list number) of troops at the border was about 10 times, if not more. And what orders do not give, the defeat of the border forces was inevitable, especially if we take into account the inertia of the troops, even with timely orders. But there was no tactic and plan that would rely on these conclusions. This is the main reason for the collapse in the 41st year. And measures, orders, clarifications of dates are trifles that would not change the outcome, although they could affect, for example, the fact that the Germans could not reach Kerch and would be stuck on the territory of Belarus and Ukraine without moving deeper into the territory of the USSR, seriously destroying the country's infrastructure. The issue price is about 8-10 million dead.
        I would understand if we underestimated the Germans' blow in 2 times. But they were underestimated once every 8. Who is responsible for this and whether they could even conduct a more accurate analysis is a question. Personally, I consider it obvious that such a strong discrepancy could not have appeared without obvious negligence and complacency. The material part, despite its obvious insufficiency, was relatively well prepared by June 1941. Could do better, but not by much.
        The main problem is people, ideas, fermentation in the minds, habits, decisions and orders.
        A simple example - at the very beginning of 41 years, experimental data were obtained that most of our light tanks with a 45 mm gun do not pierce half of the German tank forces in the forehead (the latest Pz-III, part of PzIV, StugIII, Czech-38 (t) , even some modifications of PzII). This became especially obvious when prototypes of equipment from Germany were brought in and just looked what kind of armor there was.
        Conclusions were made? What about the measures? It all ended with the fact that after half a year the Germans simply mowed down our forces without any problems in 2 large tank counterattacks of the Red Army in the Western Military District. I do not believe that Pavlov did not know about real combat capability. Stalin could not understand this, after all, not a professional military man, but Zhukov, Pavlov, Shaposhnikov and others should have understood quite clearly on the basis of the experience of Halkin-Gol, the Finnish Winter War, Spain, and reports from Europe on the blitzkrieg.
        The only thing to which there are no complaints is the strategic preparation of society. Ideology, OSAVIAHIM, shooting training, the growth of rural mechanization and the training of tractor and machine drivers, an increase in the number of sufficiently educated personnel, an increase in industrial production, an active external position that allows you to accumulate experience and technology (Italy, Germany, France, England, USA, the USSR received a large number of modern equipment and technologies, licensed samples), new friendships - all this is beyond criticism.
        1. +5
          9 August 2018 17: 31
          Quote: yehat
          Conclusions were made? What about the measures?

          And measures were also taken. The 45 mm caliber anti-tank pistol was discontinued, and in exchange it is planned to switch to the 57-mm caliber divisional anti-tank system, for which ZiS-2 was put into production. To strengthen the divisional anti-tank defense system, 107-mm anti-tank guides were developed.
          A line of artillery tanks with 57-mm, 85-mm and 107-mm guns is also planned.
          As a safety net, work is underway on the "long" 45 mm - the future M-42.
          Quote: yehat
          It all ended with the fact that after half a year the Germans simply mowed down our forces without any problems in 2 large tank counterattacks of the Red Army in the Western Military District.

          The defeat of MK ZVO has an extremely weak relation to the low armor penetration of our guns. Our mechanized corps regularly fell into the prepared anti-tank forces of the German infantry divisions, which turned out to be where according to our intelligence there were either bare flanks of German TDs, or a thin line of cover for these flanks.
          1. +2
            9 August 2018 18: 35
            According to the video from the exercises of 37 years, this “prepared VET” was deployed literally in a few minutes, because the 37mm guns were very mobile and compact.
            therefore, no matter what part, excluding the guard, attacking it, one could be sure that the anti-terrorist operation was deployed.
            as for rearmament by 57mm, before the war itself, production of ALL new promising anti-tank guns was curtailed; intelligence myths about the clouds of heavy tanks that the Reich stamps in the rear were influenced.
            1. +4
              9 August 2018 20: 25
              Quote: yehat
              as for rearmament by 57mm, before the war itself, production of ALL new promising anti-tank guns was curtailed; intelligence myths about the clouds of heavy tanks that the Reich stamps in the rear were influenced.

              Since when is the battalion-anti-tank 45 mm gun developed in the early 30's and the divisional gun for firing a three-inch steel new and promising? Because it was them who were discontinued - due to the full filling of the states and mobilization reserve, as well as based on the results of well-known tests of the 45 mm and small power of the 76 mm OFS.
              There were a lot of new promising anti-tank guns before the war that began to be developed - from 23 mm anti-tank anti-aircraft anti-aircraft anti-aircraft guns (never brought by Taubin) and 57 mm anti-tank guns ZiS-2 to 107 mm towed monsters M75 (photo below) and ZIS- 24, as well as the heavy tank destroyer SU-B-13 (yes, it was with her - from the sea B-13).
          2. +2
            10 September 2018 11: 03
            increased VET is an inadequate conclusion. Firstly, the problem of artillery maneuverability was not solved. Secondly, the basis of the defense strategy of the early stage is the counterattacks of the mechanized corps and very little has been done to improve this element in the calculation for the summer of 41 years. The prospects were good, but very late and therefore inadequate to the moment, because it was necessary either to change the doctrine, or to improve massively the performance characteristics of light tanks and the structure of mechanized corps. Neither one nor the other was done.
            1. +2
              10 September 2018 12: 36
              Quote: yehat
              Firstly, the problem of artillery maneuverability was not solved.

              Not resolved. It all came down to the fact that all the 30s practically did not deal with this problem - for example, the ChTZ design bureau was almost completely occupied with servicing mass production. As a result, at the end of the 30s there were only 2 tractors in the artillery that met the requirements of the Red Army - "Komsomolets" and "Voroshilovets".
              The problem was solved, but "nine women in a month can not give birth to a child". As a result - as always."if the war had timed ...".
              Quote: yehat
              Secondly, the basis of the defense strategy of the early stage is the counterattacks of the mechanized corps and very little has been done to improve this element in the calculation for the summer of 41 years. The prospects were good, but very late and therefore inadequate to the moment, because it was necessary either to change the doctrine, or to improve massively the performance characteristics of light tanks and the structure of mechanized corps. Neither one nor the other was done.

              You always consider the situation from the point of view of possession of the leadership of the USSR afterglow: the war of 146% will begin on June 22, 1941. The problem is that the leadership of the USSR did not have this aftertaste. And she planned to rectify the situation with MK by mid-1942.
              Please tell me - what can be done to rectify the situation with mechanized corps if banal co-ordination at the battalion level is planned to end in August 1941? And the Red Army’s first staffed mechanized corps will be received only in September - and immediately send it to the exercises to determine the compliance of the OSh with the practical tasks facing the corps.
              How to massively improve the performance characteristics of light tanks, if the plants evade the conclusion of contracts even for the supply of spare parts?
              1. +2
                10 September 2018 15: 25
                Well, the army was able to increase from one and a half to 4 million in just a couple of years.
                probably could take care of more appropriate actions in the attack of the Germans.
                already make mixed horse-mechanized brigades to counter the blitzkrieg could in the 36-37 years.
                1. +2
                  10 September 2018 15: 57
                  Quote: yehat
                  already make mixed horse-mechanized brigades to counter the blitzkrieg could in the 36-37 years.

                  Check out the actions of such a team during the liberation of Western Ukraine and Belarus. Even with minimal opposition to the remnants of the Polish army in eastern Poland, considerable losses were suffered due to an organizational mess. And some tank units Marshal Budyonny had to transfer fuel through the air.
                  I no longer stutter about the conflict on Lake Hasan, where the command of the Red Army in the form of Comrade Blucher was disgraced in full.
                  From 1939 to 1941, the Red Army more than doubled its strength. And by whom, do you think, did the newly formed units replenish, even if they were deployed on the basis of combatant units?
                  And what about the "reformatting" of rifle regiments into mechanized units, when not only the profile, but also the materiel changed?

                  The Red Army met on June 22, 1941, not only not fully mobilized and underdeveloped. Most of the formations and formations were not cobbled together into combat units, the command experienced an acute shortage of commanders of all levels - from the command unit to the battalion, the battalion commander. In tank units, no more than 50% of the payroll tanks could be ready to leave the parks. on the balance sheet "hung" tanks from the beginning of the 30s. They were "on paper", they were in the ranks, but they were in a state that required even minor (or medium) repairs: worn out tracks, engines that had worn out and needed replacement, a failed suspension or transmission, etc.
                  The newest T-34 and KV-1 units that entered the units from the end of 1940 in increasing volumes suffered from both "childhood diseases" and were never studied by the tankers ....
                  So is there any surprise at the gigantic tank losses of the summer of 41, when half of the lost tanks were listed under the "technical malfunction" column. When tank corps, not having a sufficient number of fuel tankers and vehicles for transporting used supplies, attacked the Wehrmacht anti-tank defense equipment without air cover and artillery support? When Ju-87 literally knocked out thin-armored T-26 and BTs with impunity bombing both at the transitions and at the initial positions?
                  And according to the charter, the main type of tank battle was an offensive.

                  The tank guard was born from those tankers who went through the hell of bombing and executions of their vehicles in the summer of 41.
                  1. +2
                    10 September 2018 16: 30
                    I know all this. By the way, about u-87 an interesting remark.
                    they, like the ME-110 with great difficulty, could definitely hit the tank,
                    but armor bt5, bt7, t26 and the like made their way through the fragments of the sc250, sc500 and sc1000 bombs, and also suffered very simply from the effects of a close high-explosive explosion, which made air raids effective. By the way, they somehow forget that in the summer of 41, along with the Yu-87, the Germans actively used the he-51 whatnot to attack.
                    1. +1
                      11 September 2018 00: 47
                      I will say more - during the Kutuzov operation, it was the Ju-87s that stopped the offensive of tank units in the Oryol direction in the zone of action of the 1st Guards TK.
                      And this is only one special case when, in the absence of anything else, tank breakthroughs were stopped by aircraft.
        2. +3
          9 September 2018 20: 03
          The author does not prove, but investigates (in a womanly emotional way) the tragedy of the defeat of the Red Army in June 1941, introducing a mass of previously secret documents and evidence into the factual history of events, looking for the reasons for the defeat - both mistakes and treason. In the actions and decisions of marshals and heroes Tymoshenko and Kulik, I see it, for example, and the author reinforces my suspicions. There was a conspiracy against Stalin and the USSR, this is a fact, and this is the political background of bitter events. Only now we have the right to think about "Ukrainians" and its role in the events in Great Russia from February 1917 to 1941, and to study this topic, which was previously completely banned, as deadly. The author's factology is not fictional, but documentary, for which she is honored and praised!
      3. BAI
        +1
        9 August 2018 13: 12
        Anonymous Madame

        And why so sure that the author of the articles is a woman?
        Why is the author touched this question?

        As far as I understand, the author positions himself as a man.
        1. VS
          -4
          9 August 2018 13: 26
          alas - a lady and anonymous besides)))
        2. +1
          9 August 2018 16: 06
          The word "author" is masculine. Therefore the word is used "touched".
          In fact, the materials were prepared by the minimum team of authors))))
          However, sometimes very interesting people write - thanks to them ....
          1. BAI
            -1
            9 August 2018 16: 27
            Then "the author touched", we are talking about Merkel, "the chancellor saidа (made) “etc., and not,” Chancellor Merkel said. ”This is true of the president and the prime minister too.
          2. +2
            9 September 2018 20: 06
            The author’s factology is not fictitious, but documentary, for which she is honored and praised!
      4. +1
        9 August 2018 17: 26
        "Our anonymous cheer stupidly does not understand that it IS IMPOSSIBLE TO PAINT THOUSAND airplanes a couple of days before the attack !! And the fact that the term of painting (both airplanes and grass))) costs a month in advance is a primitive period of REAL opportunity to paint these airplanes and no more) )) "
        This is true, but why did the aircraft paint in such colors at the plants? And why didn’t they think about disguise at the airfields?
        1. VS
          -3
          10 August 2018 06: 52
          Disguise orders - repainting has been going on since winter))) Where in the army the mess starts there) There where the mess begins in the army there)) - nobody canceled the old army jokes from the times of the SSR)))
          1. +2
            10 August 2018 12: 05
            And this is not ridiculous from the word at all - what kind of army is this, the Red Army, if the orders of the command are not followed? And who created it like that? request
            1. VS
              +1
              10 August 2018 13: 44
              alas ..))) Trotsky is to blame))))
              1. +1
                10 August 2018 22: 31
                ... and Tukhachevsky?
                and GKZH and Tymoshenko?
                1. VS
                  -1
                  11 August 2018 07: 09
                  yes you cho - it’s holy people)))
          2. +2
            10 September 2018 15: 31
            this joke is sad because according to the charter, fighter and attack aircraft simply could not fight.
            And all that is not in accordance with the charter is a mess. And there were no resources for mass training of personnel in aviation, so the mess in aviation is a consequence of a weak economy, and not a property of the military branch.
            If half the crews went to tanks at least familiar with the subject (many were drivers or machine operators), then aviation was absolutely not connected with ordinary life.
    2. +1
      9 August 2018 11: 07
      Hi Andrew)))
      Not 16, but more ... Another one on exploration and further across all districts in detail - you will probably be bored)))
      Individual commanders did it locally, and that is what all the material is about.
      And there will be no traitor generals in the literal sense. Of course, I’m going to walk along the nearby Musya Basil, who, after a few years of studying the problem, does not understand anything. Maybe his stock bag with dropped cartridges fell? What do you think))))
      1. VS
        -3
        9 August 2018 13: 31
        so maybe all the same you will finally show - WHAT did individual commanders and type on a PERSONAL initiative in the districts?
        1. +2
          10 September 2018 15: 32
          Quote: aKtoR
          Maybe a bag with spent cartridges fell to him in a warehouse? What do you think))))


          and the bag drove on and on through his miserable head ... crying
      2. +5
        9 August 2018 18: 20
        Quote: aKtoR
        Maybe a bag with spent cartridges fell to him in a warehouse?

        A big request for you is to fight the flood, rub every single comment with mousy in your topics, this should be accessible to you as an author of articles.
        1. +6
          9 August 2018 18: 49
          I have no such opportunity. Yes, and this is contrary to my concept. I do not insist on the authenticity of my version. I only provide information and my thoughts for independent conclusions or subsequent research of other users ...
          Think, my dear forum users, and I am leaving for the sea))))
          Opinion Kozinkina, someone supports - this is correct. How many people - so many opinions. But most of all I would like readers to read different opinions - think, search for materials and come to someone's opinion on their own. But support is always pleasant))))
          1. VS
            -1
            10 August 2018 07: 09
            and what are your considerations - WITHOUT ANALYSIS AND ANALYSIS OF REALLY CARRIED OUT ACTIVITIES on the PREWAR days - maybe ??))) You grabbed a few pictures and reports and started to think up who they thought “in the Kremlin and NGOs with GSh)) YOU, however, that de Chekunov has already said - you are full of nonsense)))
            DO NOT have to compose what anyone thought there - according to RU reports)) SEE WHO WHAT - DID IN THESE DAYS - WHAT events were held. And according to your ravings, it turns out that the reports were fake and NOBODY did ANYTHING therefore. And if cho was done, then in spite of the tyrant and on the PERSONAL initiative of certain good people)) And THIS is a LIE and STUPIDITY)))
            MADAME - BEGIN FINALLY STUDYING EVENTS of the pre-war days.)) LEARN WHAT HAS BEEN DONE - ask yourself a simple question - WHAT THE FUCK in the divisions of the railway began to write on June 18 in the Baltic states and there they wrote on June 20 - there was no fighting on that day, but on - On June 12, railways began to be conducted in the BORDER divisions !!!
            I will promptly tell you a hint for stupid people - at PEACE TIME railways and even more so in the BORDER divisions do not lead))
            But I am glad that you are not so stupidly categorical in assessing your nonsense about good people, that on a PERSONAL initiative they did something in the districts - contrary to the tyrant))) Although your obstinacy is a woman who DOESN'T WANT to study what others have found and shown before YOU - touches also)))
        2. VS
          -3
          10 August 2018 06: 58
          the simplest test is to offer the reader to read something else)) And if the reader REFUSES then he is either an idiot or a believer))) I suggested to you - read what was REALLY in the pre-war days - if you want to find out what was and was done really in the pre-war days - what the hell’s initiative for individual commanders from June 12 - by what orders did they begin to carry out CREATIVE PLANS - HOW DO THEY COME BACKGROUNDS that WON'T START in peacetime they WRITTEN to write from June 12 !!!! BUT YOU DID NOT WANT TO KNOW IT. Those. - YOU ravings anonymous ladies nicer - NOBODY attack did not wait in him did not believe and did NOTHING, and if they did then contrary to the tyrant and on the personal initiative of good people in the districts))) With what I congratulate you)))
  4. VS
    -4
    9 August 2018 09: 52
    It’s worse when Batans are admitted to MILITARY docks and those who don’t understand what they see in front of them begin to give nonsense - but even worse when women try to “analyze” them ((((
    That's interesting - the head of an anonymous madame will come to get into medical documents and materials and get clever there - how to understand them and treat people ??)))
    1. +8
      9 August 2018 11: 12
      Olegovich, what kind of military are you ?! Warehouse you ... Tylovikk. Where did the warehousemen learn to understand the military ???
      So you think tanks are tanks like shells. But not to you, that the tanks alone, without anything else, will not reach Minsk ...
      And if I'm a nerd, then you are up to my batanei level, as before China is crawling ...
      You're in intelligence data, like a creature in front of a new gate)))
      1. +4
        9 August 2018 11: 19
        Look, tylovik-Olegovich, for eight years you have not figured out the issues:
        1) why po zapovo bulletins were different from ru
        2) how frontier troops of the NKVD and Rugsh lines meet. You always wrote that the border guards reported exactly without a single fact, a swindler. Does anyone here on the forum believe you?
        3) about a huge amount of TB and TP, about the absence of MK and TGP.
        4) it was right to think of the Germans ’ppd on the map, it’s right to think, you haven’t been given ... You have only three clever books, and there it wasn’t written
        And much more that will not pass in two years, as you in my books sneak my thoughts nerd. In another way you do not allow the head to work ....
      2. VS
        -3
        9 August 2018 13: 28
        madam - are we already switching to YOU ​​??))) I hope you will not offer sex?))

        I - never considered tanks at all))) and - my military school will be more than merry culinary specialists)))

        And - so why are you so afraid to show WHAT REALLY happened in the districts in the pre-war days - WHAT divisions, how many were withdrawn according to the Cover Plans from June 12 in the districts?)))
        Are you afraid that your ladies' ravings that the attack did not wait and therefore did NOT do ANYTHING in the Kremlin and the General Staff and if something was done, then on the personal initiative of good commanders will fall apart ??))

        and - God forbid, use your "thoughts"))) I just didn’t have enough nonsense from women in my books)))
  5. +9
    9 August 2018 11: 35
    The author is very grateful for the work done: generalization, systematization and analysis of the source documents of those days. hi
    Do not pay attention to the spitefulness of some characters and the completely untenable “criticism”!
    1. VS
      -3
      9 August 2018 13: 29
      Yes, there’s no generalization and analysis here - anonymous lady collected the reports and instead of stupidly asking them about WHAT REALLY did in the pre-war days in the okrugs and according to WHOSE directives, she began to think up who was thinking “in the Kremlin” and the General Staff )))
      1. +3
        10 August 2018 08: 42
        Quote: V.S.
        began to invent

        An example of "fiction" is on the table!
        1. VS
          -2
          10 August 2018 12: 01
          ALL her attempts to compose that there who "THINKED" and all the more for Stalin - nonsense)))
    2. +3
      9 August 2018 16: 03
      Thank you, very nice))))
      1. VS
        -1
        9 August 2018 16: 23
        this is what distinguishes you from those who really want to understand the topic - you are only pleased with what you like from readers)))

        So with the answer from you to my question - So why are you so afraid to show WHAT REALLY happened in the districts in the pre-war days - WHAT divisions, how many were withdrawn according to the Cover Plans from June 12 in the districts?)))
        Are you afraid that your ladies' ravings that the attack did not wait and therefore did NOT do ANYTHING in the Kremlin and the General Staff and if something was done, then on the personal initiative of good commanders will fall apart ??))
        1. 0
          10 August 2018 12: 08
          if not a secret - your opinion - why didn’t the troops leave the Brest Fortress? feel
          1. 0
            10 August 2018 12: 25
            Where, if they were stormed immediately after the bombing began. Surrounded before noon on the 22.
            1. VS
              0
              10 August 2018 14: 02
              NOT WHERE - WHEN)))
              Pavlov was tortured in all protocols - why didn’t these squads get out of Brest beforehand - if you received all the orders on time !! ?? ((((
          2. VS
            0
            10 August 2018 14: 00
            moreover - from the barracks of THREE divisions of Brest a week before June 22, cartridges were seized - a portable stock which was laid there by order of the General Staff))
            From June 18, in PribOVO, 7 border divisions (out of 9) were withdrawn according to Cover Plans, and two approached the border from Riga and Dvinsk, starting withdrawal from June 15-16.
            In KOVO, from June 12, in UR, according to PP, by June 22, 10 precisely border ones were withdrawn, out of 17 of which were deployed far from the border, about which this was written off in the railways of these divisions.
            Since June 8, all of their 5 border divisions have been withdrawn to OdVO according to Cover Plans.

            Total - 22 border divisions of the 41st in the western districts were withdrawn by the BCP accurately, in the Urals. At the same time, it was a limitation for all of them - not to occupy the very positions on the border - the very same foregrounds. While some divisions of these so-called there were no forelands)))
            They were placed in camps in the area of ​​their main line of defense, which gave them the opportunity to signal a combat alert - the so-called deer 1 in a few hours to take their positions at the border.

            But in Belarus - only a few second-tier divisions were withdrawn, one md from the 6th MK and reserve divisions - from June 11.
            Their frontier troops were stationed directly on the border and they did not seem to need to twitch ahead of time. BUT!
            Being deployed at the border - the same Brest - they had to carry 30-50 km along their borders ALONG the border and that wasn’t done - ALL the frontier divisions of ZAPOVO and especially in Brest - slept to the last ... None in the frontier ZAPOVO did not display at all ...

            Well, then already on the night of the attack began a madhouse.
            EVERYTHING deciphered the text of the so-called Dir. 1 - to full BG. with the employment of firing points at the border at 1.30 for sure but EVERYWHERE except for OVDO SLEEP up to 3 hours EXACTLY ... I.e. alarm time was stolen from the frontier Tymoshenko and they were beaten by sleeping or - on a march to their positions in the morning ... LETTER it is TYMOSHENKO, who gave permission to Admiral Kuznetsov at 23.00 - this is a war and fire can be opened on Germans if attacked - rubbed Pavlova at 1 am - you if cho happens in the MORNING troops awake ....

            Did I answer your question? If you want - I’ll throw off a new book on these events)))
            I have a test - if I suggest and people take it to read - then they’re normal on the head, and if, as an anonymous madame, they refuse to study what they don’t know, it's not my problem)))
            1. 0
              11 August 2018 07: 31
              Quote: V.S.
              If you want - I’ll throw off a new book on these events)))

              Go ahead, take off.
  6. -2
    9 August 2018 16: 31
    Something in the structure of the articles is not very. Here the conclusions in the last paragraphs, or something, would not hurt.
    And I somehow missed, in what part was it said about the most important thing - politics? Did this happen before the Second World War, so that country A, which is at war with country B, suddenly attacks country B? Suddenly - in a sense not like usual, when at first some provocation ensues, which immediately flows into a border conflict, which, in turn, has grown literally within a week into a full-fledged war. What our command seems to have expected and tried to prepare. And just as the Germans did, they simply attacked on a signal, and before that they either ignored our requests or were broken off by fables.
    1. +6
      9 August 2018 17: 19
      Quote: brn521
      And I somehow missed, in what part was it said about the most important thing - politics? Did this happen before the Second World War, so that country A, which is at war with country B, suddenly attacks country B?

      Only the occupation of Denmark and Norway comes to mind.
      However, the attack on Norway was not so sudden. The only thing that was sudden in him was the party that carried it out - because the Norwegians were actively pressed by the British, and a British landing was awaited in the country. Limes were late with aggression for just a day. smile
    2. VS
      -4
      10 August 2018 07: 12
      Be lenient - it’s a lady who writes articles on MILITARY topics)) God forbid, she’ll figure it out in the reports .. that she slipped something to her so that she “voiced”)) After all, a woman walking in the forest and at the same time chewing nuts is contraindicated - forehead hurt against a tree right there)))
    3. VS
      -4
      10 August 2018 07: 15
      There was no suddenness or surprise of an attack for Stalin, all the more)) Madame herself brought his words to Churchill about this - we knew and were waiting ..) We hoped to delay the attack by diplomatic efforts, but they took measures, but as Molotov said, the military turned out to be always hats - some obeyed the order and brought their troops to the battlefield. but the same Pavlov - no ...
      1. +1
        10 August 2018 09: 58
        Quote: V.S.
        There was no suddenness or surprise for the attack for Stalin.

        It is clear that there was no surprise. We did not just build the Stalin line, and then the Molotov line. But we were counting on normal diplomacy. Or the Germans make demands and give time for their implementation. Then we will have at least a month. Or the conflict grows out of some kind of provocation, but even then we have at least a week, because Germans will have to pretend to be unjustly offended, not wanting war.
        Actually, the warning about the start of the war on June 22 was clearly a provocation. The only adequate response to such intelligence is a preemptive strike to thwart or weaken the future offensive of the enemy. But in this way our country would become an aggressor.
        1. VS
          -2
          10 August 2018 12: 04
          And how do you know who cho was “calculating” there - WHO said something to you that the Kremlin was waiting for “requirements” and there will be a month to fulfill them?))
          YES BEGIN TO FINALLY EXPLORE THE EVERYTHING OF THE EVENTS OF THE PRE-WAR days)) HOW MUCH TO SAY TO ME - that the Railways that DO NOT LEAD IN PEACE TIME in principle - began to be conducted in the same KOVO from June 12 !!! ??)))

          DON'T BE SO SUCH RESISTANT THAT)))
    4. +2
      10 August 2018 08: 45
      Quote: brn521
      Did this happen before the Second World War, so that country A, which is at war with country B, suddenly attacks country B?

      An example of WWI to help you: first, an attack on Russia, and only then on France.
    5. +3
      10 August 2018 12: 10
      a reasonable remark - without conclusions everything is drowning in details ... request
      1. VS
        -3
        10 August 2018 14: 15
        not drowned but - CONFUSED)) And at the same time "details" are given that contradict each other and madam's conclusions)))
  7. +6
    9 August 2018 17: 12
    Do you know how many tanks are in a German tank regiment according to this document? You can’t guess exactly, although you are well versed in such documents ... Look at the figure below for the number of tanks in TP, and if you don’t believe your eyes, look at one more picture below. How can this be?

    That's right - this is the number of tanks in German tp according to our intelligence.
    If you take the notorious "Report of the Chief of the GABTU KA on the organization, armament and means of combat of the BT and MV KA and foreign armies", then on page 2 it is indicated that 1 German infantry fighting vehicle is included in a German combat vehicle. And the total number of tanks in a German military vehicle is 170 medium and 410 light. That is, 580 tanks for 2 military vehicles and other divisional structures.
    So 275 tanks in tp according to our intelligence - quite normal.
    By the way, this same document removes many questions from the series "why do we need such monstrous MK" And "what tanks were we waiting as an enemy".
  8. +3
    9 August 2018 18: 17
    Quote: yehat
    the density of troops at the border guaranteed unstable defense, even in ideal conditions

    Was it weak to exchange your territory for identifying the directions of the main attacks and the formation of a stable defense in the depths of the territory?
    1. +3
      9 August 2018 18: 32
      Quote: Operator
      Was it weak to exchange your territory for identifying the directions of the main attacks and the formation of a stable defense in the depths of the territory?

      Given that our intelligence, even in conditions of direct contact with the enemy, lost entire tank groups, but at the same time found tank divisions where they were not born - weakly.
      And do not forget that the mobility of German mechanized units is much higher than that of our MKs, and German soldiers regularly overtook our rifle units, dissecting them and pressing them against natural obstacles. That is, reserves for the directions of the main strike may simply not be in time.
      1. +3
        9 August 2018 20: 50
        In any case, the pulling of Soviet troops from the border would significantly increase the ability of the Red Army to uncover the actual directions of the attack of the Wehrmacht attack groups, and the location of the mechanized corps even deeper in the rear would help them advance towards the enemy when lower mobility is not significant.
        1. VS
          -1
          10 August 2018 08: 13
          and you try the plans yourself to study GSh-Zhukov - you will understand WHY our units stuck out SO in the districts))) Hint - read Sudoplatovat that Madame brought - too))) He clearly showed the essence of GSh-Zhukov's plans)))) This was the reason the pogrom of the Red Army as a result)) The main reason)) However, as I understand it, it’s easier and more accessible for you to read Madame's ravings anonymous than to delve into and what REALLY was the cause of the June 22 tragedy)))

          Escho I will prompt - the words of Sudoplatov the ESSENCE of Zhukov’s plans are clearly shown))))

          “Chapter 10.
          GERMAN SPECIAL SERVICES AGAINST THE USSR ON THE EVE OF ATTACK
          ...
          In the nineties, the publication of various “documentary” materials began on the development of plans for an offensive operation of the Red Army in the initial period of the war. I must say, however, with all responsibility that the plan of the so-called preventive war with Germany did not exist. Zhukov and Vasilevsky proposed to preempt the Germans in the strategic deployment of troops in the event Germany began military operations. This is a famous handwritten document dated May 15, 1941.
          It is now being overlooked that these considerations about the battle between Stalin and the People’s Commissar of Defense Tymoshenko formed the basis of the directive to the troops on the afternoon of June 22, 1941, when an attempt was made to counter the Germans with a counter strike and deliver them the main strike in the south-west direction. In my opinion, Zhukov is betrayed by his memory when he writes in his memoirs that the directive of the Headquarters on conducting a decisive counterattack was completely unexpected for him. After all, it was a question of carrying out those activities that he, as the chief of the General Staff and Major General Vasilevsky, proposed to Stalin to carry out if the war broke out more than a month before the German attack.
          Moreover, the May considerations of Zhukov and Vasilevsky were actually our first draft of the plan of military operations in the event of a war with Germany.
          Now it’s obvious that this document was very imperfect, moreover, the design of the offensive operations was not much different from the plans of the offensive campaign of the Russian army in Galicia and Southeast Poland, developed by the tsar’s general staff back in 1913 and partially implemented with failures in August-September 1914 of the year". (P. Sudoplatov. "Chronicle of the Secret War and Diplomacy. 1938-1941," M. 2017. Available on the Internet. This book is a reprint of Sudoplatov’s book, "Different Days of the Secret War and Diplomacy. 1941," M. 2001.)
          As you can see - Sudoplatov directly accuses Marshal Zhukov of lying - that Zhukov was not involved in writing the directive No. 3 on the evening of June 22 - to implement the pre-war plans of GS-Zhukov. And also he shows that it was the implementation of the actual plan for an immediate retaliatory (“counter”) strike converted from the Zhukovsky plan of the preventive strike “of May 15”! And also that it was a stupid copy of the failed plan of the tsarist General Staff in case of war with Germany in 1914 yet! Now it’s clear about what “experience of the First World War”, which was unsuccessfully copied and formed the basis of our plans for the event of a war with Germany in the 41st, Zakharov spoke and in general did Zhukov himself acknowledge?
          At the same time, Sudoplatov seems to blame Stalin for the appearance of directive No. 3, and, in fact, almost for the idea of ​​developing this plan for the “oncoming battle”, which was the basis for directive No. 3, “when an attempt was made to stop the Germans with a counter strike and deliver the main strike in the southwest direction. " But Sudoplatov often comes across moments addressed to Stalin that clearly do not correspond to reality. Directive No. 3 was, of course, “approved” by Stalin, but she wrote from the submission of the military, who brought Stalin fake reports from the border, who tried to approve this directive from Stalin. At the same time, the same Zhukov, whom Sudoplatov accused of the appearance of this directive, did not dare to blame Stalin for her composition. Zhukov, trying to relieve himself of responsibility for her appearance, assuring that he had left Moscow for Kiev by Stalin’s order at 2 p.m., called directive No. 3, written in Stalin’s office at 16 p.m. “the people's directive”. However, it is worth considering that Sudoplatov himself did not write his books. As far as he knows, he either dictated the texts, like the same Khrushchev in his “memoirs”, or Sudoplatov’s books were written from certain draft copies of Sudoplatov by some “literary Negroes”. And Sudoplatov’s sometimes strange remarks about Stalin could well have come from these excessively clever “blacks” ...
          However, in any case, as they say, not a brow, but a security officer punched between our eyes between our military ...))))
    2. VS
      -3
      10 August 2018 07: 17
      Who told you that the directions of the main attacks did not know in the General Staff until June 22?
    3. +1
      10 August 2018 10: 14
      The Molotov line was under construction. Subsequently, she just had to fulfill this task - to prevent the enemy from gnawing off a large territory at once, identifying the directions of the main strikes and providing a protected bridgehead for counterattacks.
  9. +7
    9 August 2018 18: 53
    Quote: V.S.
    I never even considered tanks


    How so? Here are your words on the militia form: “...It was more important for sandalwood - HOW MUCH ONLY tanks found against them let alone what groups the Germans call them - yes, spit in the long run. They will tramp on one road - Brest-Minsk... ”The author apologizes to Sandalov, who did not think so, as a literary figure wrote above ...
    And perhaps you will be able to submit a document of pre-war time, where it was said that German tanks would reach Minsk. I could not find such a ....
    1. +8
      9 August 2018 19: 07
      Very often my articles are commented by O.Yu. Kozinkin.
      In the 4 part, he argued that there were no encryption machines in the SHO GSH. Then he argued that they were not used when transmitting PCs with the text of Directive No. 1. Since this message of a literary figure was removed for insults - I can not quote. Perhaps someone who reads - he remembers ... But now he can speak about cipher machines with the air of an expert ... Perhaps Kozinkin can confirm with documents that he wrote about cipher machines when passing Directive No. 1 before June 2017 of the year? I then apologize to such a wonderful literary figure ...

      Later all his comments on border districts boiled down to answers like read the answers of the divisional divisions. These replicas can be found in abundance in the comments to the 4-10 parts. The author was not lazy and you in the part about the border districts will be presented (among others) ALL the memories of the divisional divisions. I do not think that I will present to you what Kozinkin read there ...

      By analogy with the above statements, Kozinkin had a new idea: “...Both the data and the GRU were later brought to the division commander. COMDIVES refer to this — they were given both district intelligence reports and the General Staff. And a generalized analysis of ALL the data and shows - “Both the RU GSH and the intelligence of the NKVD and the NKGB — all that was necessary — was given to the military. Learn the answers of the divisional command as well as - the June events themselves 41-that was done according to intelligence data, including - what measures were taken... »

      Well, you know almost everything about intelligence data - except for the June 22 RU summary, which we will look at in the 17 part.
      Also, all the "answers komdiviv" about intelligence you will also be presented in the part 17. The words that all intelligence that must be given are incorrect. You should see with numerous examples that this is not true. Intelligence, unfortunately, drove misinformation ... It is strange that a literary figure of EIGHT years dealt with this problem and could not illuminate it.

      No could, but only with the help of an absurd idea: "... The reports of the RU GSH which we know are the disinformation of the RU itself - the disinformation for Stalin ...»

      "...About the fact that it was known that the RU GSH distorted INTELLECTLY the information pushing it under the idea that the main attack will be south of the woodland - I have been writing for years already and in the new book it will also be about... "As the saying goes, Shiz was mowed down their ranks or in a madhouse vacation ...

      We learned about the RM RM of the ZOVOVO headquarters in the 16 part. But the opinion of a man who boasts that eight years engaged in the period of the outbreak of war. These are the lines of May 2018.

      «... Did you read Sandalov ?? It shows that they were given the data on 5 of June - against BREST ONLY. against 4 army revealed - before 15 PD, 5 td, 2 md and 2 cd Germans !!!! And Sandalov also showed that on June 21 they knew that against the ZOVO more Germans 45 divisions were expected !! T..e - PRACTICALLY ALL German divisions that were there... »

      "...What kind of intelligence had the headquarters of the German tank units not been opened ??? And from where and how Sandalov 5 (FIFTH !!) even June gave data about - FIVE etc. , TWO md, 2 cd and 15 gn Germans - ONLY against only Brest - from 30 Germans' divisions identified against ZPOVO ????... "

      "...And on June 21, Sandalov reveals that they were given the 45-47 divisions of the Germans against ZOVOV, and this almost coincided with reality.... »

      "...On 5 June, Sandalov was told that THESE tanks - are determined against Brest))) And where is the headquarters of Guderian - it doesn’t matterabout"

      I will not comment, dear readers. you have plenty of information ...

      And this statement of the rear worker about tank groups: “...At least for us, these "tank groups" were not such - some separate compounds. For us, it was in the reports of the tank divisions, and whoever commands them as “associations” —the Germans — was not particularly important to us... "I understand, and whether there were groups and a micron is also not important ...

      In the next part you will be presented with the implementation of the GSH spacecraft on the 10-00 22.6.41. About her Kozinkin writes: “...By the way, Zhukov knew perfectly well what directions the tanks would be and trample on - he kicked from the left wing (for us) PribOVO to Minsk immediately calculated ...
      The fact that this is a real threat is he immediately scored on a summary of the GSH on 10.00 22 June
      ... »

      You’ll read part of 18; remember, the figure wrote for eight years who studied the problems of June 22 ...

      Why am I writing about this author? Recently was the museum "Russia" at the Exhibition of Economic Achievements in Moscow. I didn't like everything there. When I got out, I saw middle school students after the halls about the war rushed to the gift shop and with blessing they held the books of this figure in their hands. books with delusions, and children believe adults ...
      1. VS
        -4
        10 August 2018 08: 04
        madam - STOP lying to deal with opponents that FROM THE FIRST YOUR attempts to offer you HELP - they offered you new information on the topic where you climbed but in you - REFUSED self-confidently believing that you already understood better than others on a couple of RU GSh reports)))) )

        "" Very often my articles are commented by O. Kozinkin.
        In the 4th part, he argued that there were no cryptographic machines in the SHO GS ""

        - 1st - so there is NO anyone who could, and even more so would like to comment on your nonsense - about good initiative people that contrary to the tyrant who did not expect the attack, what they did in the pre-war days in the districts)))
        2nd - DO NOT LIE - I HAVE NEVER SAYED such that there were no encryption machines in the SHO GSH))) For lying - one hit with a candelabrum in the head for you)))

        "" Then he argued that they were not used in the transfer of PT with the text of Directive No. 1. ""

        - You also have a candelabrum - I NEVER SPOKED THIS all the more so - because the machines did not use the so-called deer when transmitting. 1))))

        "" Since this message of a literary figure was deleted for insults, I can not quote. Perhaps who read - he remembers ... ""

        - a convenient position but YOUR LIES it will NEVER confirm)) THERE are my books and THERE IS NOTHING from what you are talking about me here)))

        "" But now, with the air of an expert, he can talk about cryptographic machines ... ""

        - Yes, I FIGURE - I NEVER got into THESE details at all - and this does NOT play ANY role in understanding the process of events of the night of June 22)) I showed the time - TIME when they started sending and when the text was accepted in the districts and the rest - the details NOT NEEDED in principle)))

        "" Perhaps Kozinkin can documented that he wrote about cryptographic machines when transmitting Directive No. 1 until June 2017? I will then apologize to such a wonderful literary figure ... ""

        - And FOR HORRY I would have to write about these encryption machines ?? I about MANY things about which I did not write in details and the most important thing - AND WHY was it to download info books about cars if there are more important points for understanding the essence of processes and events ??)))

        "" Later, all his comments on the border districts came down to answers like read the answers of the divisional commanders. These replicas can be found in abundance in the comments on 4-10 parts. The author was not too lazy and in the part about the border districts you will be presented (among others) ALL the memories of the divisional commanders. I don’t think that I will present to you what Kozinkin read there ... "

        - that is, you simply and stupidly ignore what I showed - and only to rub your uneducated readers your nonsense - that they did not wait for the attack in the Kremlin and did not take action, and if something was done contrary to the tyrant and on the personal initiative of good blacksmiths ??))

        And yet, yes - read the ANSWERS carefully to the divisional commanders and especially - what REALLY was done in those days in the districts - HOW the PPs started to be executed and most importantly - WHEN and on whose team)))

        "" Study the answers of the commanders and also - the events of June 41st — what was done according to intelligence, including - what measures were taken ... "
        Well, you know almost everything about intelligence data - except for the June 22 RU summary, which we will look at in the 17 part.
        Also, all the "divisional commanders' answers" about intelligence will also be presented to you in part 17. The words that all the intelligence that you have to give are incorrect. You should have seen from numerous examples that this is not true. Intelligence, unfortunately, drove disu ... It is strange that a literary figure has been working on this problem for EIGHT years and was unable to cover it. ""

        - that is, you will keep IGNORING the MOST important advice from me - LEARN WHAT HAS REALLY BEEN DONE in the districts and according to what directives ??))) and then wonder why military people consider you ..ura to be ???)))

        "" Also, all "divisional responses" about intelligence will also be presented to you in part 17. ""

        - do not forget those words where they showed - they gave them the data that was then fully confirmed ...)))

        "" of the absurd idea: "... The reports of the General Staff of the General Staff that we know are misinformation of the RU itself - disinformation for Stalin ..." ""

        - And according to YOURSELF - Stalin IM believed one hundred percent - this dese ??)) Show how he reacted to the delirium of "Petty Officer" and his "source" at the Luftwaffe headquarters about auto repair shops under MOSCOW as the main target of the Germans during the attack ??)) )

        "" "... About the fact that the RU GSh misrepresented INTENTIONAL information, driving it under the idea that the main blow will be south of Polesie - I’ve been writing for more than a year already and in the new book will also be about it ..." holiday… ""

        - alas - this is a fact))) Study Zakharov’s books and “lessons and conclusions”)) yes Sudoplatov what you brought here))) .. You will understand the essence of the plans of GSh-Zhukov - maybe you will understand what Golikov was doing - a native of KOVO )))
        in the meantime - what the hell are you giving out to that truth — your crazy ideas who thought there according to the RUGB reports))) You do less spiritualism - who cho thinks there, make it easier)))

        "" About the RPM of the ZapOVO headquarters, we learned in part 16. But the opinion of a man who boasts that he has been engaged in the war beginning period for eight years. These are the lines of May 2018.
        “... did you read Sandalov ?? He shows that they were given data on June 5 - only against Brest i.e. against 4 army revealed - up to 15 pd, 5 td, 2 md and 2 cd Germans !!!! And Sandalov also showed that on June 21 they knew that against the ZAPOV more than 45 German divisions were expected !! That is, practically ALL German divisions that were there ... "
        “... WHAT intelligence did not reveal the headquarters of the tank units of the Germans ??? And where and how did Sandalov 5 (FIFTH !!) still give data on June - FIVE so on. , TWO md, 2 cd and 15 pd gnemtsev - ONLY against Brest only - out of 30 Germans divisions identified against the ZAPOV ???? ... "
        “... And on June 21, Sandalov shows that they were given 45-47 German divisions against the ZAPOVO and this almost coincided with reality ...”
        “... On June 5, Sandalov was informed that THESE tanks were determined against Brest))) And where is Guderian’s headquarters - it’s not important”
        I will not comment, dear readers. you have plenty of information ... ""

        - that is, YOU are accusing Sandalov of LIES?))) famously))) SO by any SPECIFIC summary you caught him in a lie, then you are our ANONYMOUS Madame ???))

        "" In the next part, you will also be presented with the GS-KA opersvodka at 10-00 on 22.6.41. Kozinkin writes about her: “... By the way, Zhukov knew very well in which directions the tanks would be trampled - he immediately calculated the blow from the left wing (for us) of PribOVO to Minsk ...
        The fact that this is a real threat, he immediately scored in the General Staff Report at 10.00:22 on June XNUMX ... "
        You will read part 18, remember, wrote a figure eight years studying the problems of June 22 ... ""

        - and there I also showed Zhukov - SILENCE in Brest)) And according to this report GSh-Zhukov and also on the report for 14 .00 - the deer is written. 3, ... Zhukov assures that SILENCE in Brest and when he arrives in Ternopil, Bagramyan reports that BREAST is already in Brest)) The question is to the lady with nuts - and HOW Zhukov found out that in Brest BUM is already if he writes a deer in 16.00. 3 and in Brest SILENCE, then he leaves for Kiev by plane and at 23 o’clock, upon arrival in Ternopol, he already knows about the ass in Brest ??? Hint - there were NO mobile phones in those days and NO ONE about Zhukov sent Brest delegates separately on the road)))

        "" Recently there was a museum "Russia" at VDNH in Moscow. Not everything I liked there. When I left, I saw how middle school students, after the halls about the war, ran to the souvenir shop and held the books of this figure in awe. books are nonsense, and children believe adults ... ""

        - finally call YOUR SURNAME - AND HOW ONLY I WILL SEE YOUR BOOKS WITH NON-FILES ABOUT THAT THE STALIN ATTACK did not wait because the Germans believed, and IF CHE did it in the districts, I did it)) read YOUR delusional conclusions - but I will take a look)))
        SO how is your "name sister"))) ??))) name))) Or to snatch you like that anyway - stupid ..ura ??)))
      2. +2
        9 September 2018 21: 35
        I share your opinion about the aplomb of VS, about his claims to know-it-all - he also snarls at me. like an academician. But he also works out factology, if only he would not misinterpret it. His opinions, even perverse ones, are also worth something. They reveal his own contradictions. On the one hand, he considers living troops to be almost morons, without even blinking without orders, and on the other hand, he knows that answering fire from the shells and coming out of shelling, and constantly guarding himself is an indispensable right of any troops. Therefore, do not particularly dig into the directives - any commander is required to mask his equipment and military personnel in a combat situation without any order. To 7.00 22.6.41. it was time for all our 1st-line troops to fight, and they ALL understood that. If you want to live - dig trenches, repel enemy attacks - that’s the whole truth. But it is also true that the troops were not given what to fight, or were not given, or given worthless.
      3. -2
        23 September 2018 11: 30
        Quote: aKtoR
        Then he argued that they were not used in the transfer of PT with the text of Directive No. 1.

        In fact, you have already been told that the encryption machines were not used to transmit the Directive b / n, because they are used to encrypt the text of the directive itself. But the encrypted text was transmitted to the districts by telegraphy Bodo or ST-35. But it seems to you that this is a Chinese letter, even though you have aplomb above the roof.
    2. VS
      -4
      10 August 2018 07: 26
      do you need a document that the Germans will reach Minsk on the 5th day ??? !!!))) Look for shitty .. Despite the fact that you can’t look and most importantly - and DO NOT WANT to look for anything and show that to YOUR bullshit that the attack is at 22 June did not wait and did NOT DO ANYTHING on the orders of Stalin)))
      The fact that the German tanks will reach Minsk is actually something they had in the PLANS originally PLAYED)))) Do you think they were going to Minsk in carts on the FIFTH day ???

      As for the tanks - you somehow could already refute Sandalov's words - to prove that he LATED about that information at the beginning of June ???))) He also wrote - by June 21 they knew exactly the exact figure - that about 45 German divisions were against ZAPOVO there is)))

      And madam - maybe it’s not worth misinterpreting my words then ??)) I didn’t consider the tanks bringing Sandalov’s words — and only what they knew about these etc.))) Do not be like rezuners who come up with crap for opponents - which they didn’t say and they didn’t say, and then they debunk it)))
  10. +3
    11 August 2018 05: 50
    Quote: V.S.
    Kopec in 1.30 22 June reported to Pavlov - ALL his planes ACCORDING to Tymoshenko's directives and dispersed and disguised !!))) Ie, unlike anonymous lady, Kopets understood what it meant - immediately

    The lie, the worker of the rear again did not understand. Rear, one word ...
    Of course, he has a "rotten childish excuse" - and this is not I said, but Kopec.
    But you brought her and did not even analyze why he said so. This is beyond the ability of "human-quote".
    We will see later that this was not the case.
    1. VS
      -3
      11 August 2018 07: 11
      Well, right now, the babs will tell us how the military should understand what they write in the orders)))
      1. +2
        11 August 2018 07: 58
        Right. For tylovikov everything is not clear. This is not the cartridge case to count - there is all the heck of it.
        Look carefully, without straining your head, what the general wrote in the HVO. And he wrote "immediately" about the dispersal of aircraft. And there you figure out for yourself that everything must be done immediately without deadlines. This is not a toilet bowl by order of the general from the warehouse to his dacha quickly drag. Here you have to think. Do you know how, actually?
        So why did the general write "immediately", but in other districts you will not find such a word?
  11. +4
    11 August 2018 05: 52
    Quote: V.S.
    you need a document that the Germans will reach Minsk on 5 day

    Do not turn on the fool. We are talking about our materials before the war. Show any of our documents, which indicate that the enemy can reach Minsk?
    1. VS
      -3
      11 August 2018 07: 12
      Madame - that YOU understood - what YOU are talking about - be legible in the statements)))
  12. +3
    11 August 2018 05: 55
    Quote: V.S.
    As for tanks - you somehow could already have refuted the words of Sandalov - to prove that, that was DEMONAL about those data at the beginning of June ???))) He also wrote - by June 21 they knew exactly the exact figure - that against Germans XVUMX divisions there is)

    If you couldn’t grasp the meaning of the text, then read it in syllables.
    In part, it has been proved that the increased number of divisions, according to RO Zapovo, is associated with its increased area of ​​responsibility compared to the SS GSH cut to it. It's not even strange for me that you do not understand this - the rear, one word ...
  13. +2
    11 August 2018 05: 59
    Quote: V.S.
    and there TAM Zhukov showed - in Brest SILENCE

    Right. And now, try to understand the curvature and try to understand that by 10-00 the whole GSH did not find the German grouping at Brest. And since they did not specify on all channels (including the NKVD), they DON'T WORRY about this direction.
    Elementary, but for warehouse it is like a system of differential equations ... and who only reads its nonsense. In addition to children, no silly and no one .....
    1. VS
      -3
      11 August 2018 07: 16
      girl - so we are at YOU already?))
      TIGHTEN the gyrus maids - if you have any strain - GKZH lies about the absence of the Germans against Brest. MOVED?)))

      He doesn’t see the Germans against Brest at 10 and 14 o’clock and at 22 o’clock - NOT HAVING a connection on the way to Ternopol already KNOWS what’s the ass in Brcet?)))

      Vorpochs ..ure - HOW HE at 22 = 23 hours on June 22 found out about the fact that Brest had an ASS and told Bagramyan about this?))

      STOP compose who is there cho "THOUGHT")) ..ur ..))
      LEARN to compare DIFFERENT FACTS and you will be happy)))
  14. +4
    11 August 2018 06: 06
    Quote: V.S.
    YES START FINALLY STUDYING THE SAME FACTURE of the events of the pre-war days)) HOW MUCH to tell me - the CID that DO NOT LEAD in peacetime in principle - began to lead in the same KOVO from June 12!

    And again a lie ... or not an understanding of events ... Well, how can you bring something to your readers, if you don’t understand basic things! Perhaps this flood rushes to prove something.
    1) is a lie that the border divisions of all divisions began to maintain the CWD a few days before the war. Give proof of your fantastic idea.
    2) it is a lie that all retractable units without exception were leading ZhBD a few days before the war. For example, the connections sent by railway transport did not lead them!
    3) a lie that it happened in all districts. Olegovich, refers to KOVO for one reason that 15 sd. I saw the phrase and the cfb - and again the opening for the rear man.
    And why were separate ZBD in the compounds? Answer, Olegovich? Flooding and not specifying an exact answer is a sign of the falsity of your assertion or your incompetence as a literary figure.
    Until the evening, I can still wait for you to bear there ... Clever - hardly! Cannot, something clever to write. Convince me that I was wrong, children's writer, Blinn
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        11 August 2018 10: 47
        for liars, I repeat where is the evidence that the logs of the indicated connections were due to the introduction of cover plans? You don’t even know what else to invent, liar kozinkin. The orders were dated June 12, and the divisions went already on the 18th, some from 13-14 - but not enough. And they already knew that they were going according to cover plans, although they were not even seen in their eyes. and they learned about the war on the radio, and Olga Kozinkina lies that they knew and therefore kept magazines. that’s a ram, God forgive me
        The liar Kozinkin does not know why they began to keep magazines if they were not following the cover plans. To do this, you need to think, you know, have a mind !!!!!!!!!
  15. +3
    11 August 2018 06: 08
    Quote: V.S.
    Don't be like rezunam

    On the Militari website, user Patriot convincingly proved that you are worse than Rezun. Whose dollars went abroad, confess children's writer?))))
    1. VS
      -3
      11 August 2018 07: 27
      you wouldn’t show so actively - that the cutters are prettier to you and you are from their shobls)))
    2. VS
      -3
      11 August 2018 07: 31
      you, as befits Rezunikhze, in principle, are not able to understand what you see in front of you)) WHAT did you take that I went abroad? Although - if you are from Ukraine, for you SOCHI was talking about this next rezun, a patriot who is hiding as a cliche - abroad for sure)))
  16. +4
    11 August 2018 06: 17
    Quote: V.S.
    YOU blame Sandalov in LIE?

    Have you ever seen the movie "Dumb and Dumber"?
    Even a child would understand what it was about ....
    Have you studied physics? There is a law of world wideness. Probably you know. If there are few convolutions, then thoughts are attracted to the ground and flow down from the hemispheres of the brain. try to play chess - they say it helps to increase mental capacity))) And, your literary work, on the contrary, aggravates senile processes ...
    I don’t blame General Sandalov for lies, I’m talking about different areas of responsibility for intelligence agencies.
    I'll try to write easier. Here you have a warehouse with spent cartridges and you are responsible for it.
    And in front of your neighbor's warehouse and he is responsible for them. All the same. Ok, bye?? I'm not hurrying?
    There is another warehouse, the responsible person went on vacation and the warehouse was temporarily given under the responsibility of your neighbor, which is opposite. While the third is on vacation, your neighbor has TWO warehouses. So with the intelligence, they took into Zapov territory more territory and more divisions, but decreased against PribOVO.
    You will ask why? And I will answer with your one more "rotten excuse" - well, nonterrahow do i know why
    But, you understand everything perfectly, and you are engaged in fraud in order to make more sensations in book books and to cut the money out.
    1. VS
      -3
      11 August 2018 07: 28
      Sandalov clearly showed - about DIVISIONS shown against HIS army on June 5, and your verbiage is Rezunsky - it makes no sense)))
      1. +1
        11 August 2018 10: 43
        Where is any German data or map, what is the truth? or any link in documents or memoirs? How much can you lie. Or are the storekeepers lying like they steal?
  17. +3
    11 August 2018 07: 51
    Quote: V.S.
    your verbiage rezunskoe

    Oh you, old crook and liar! The traitor Rezun wrote about the first Soviet attack on Germany.
    Find me a wordwhere it is written about the attack of the USSR on Germany
    So make up your book, turning everything in the world ...
  18. +3
    11 August 2018 07: 52
    Quote: V.S.
    you as it should be

    Oh you, old crook and liar! The traitor Rezun wrote about the first Soviet attack on Germany.
    Find me a wordwhere it is written about the attack of the USSR on Germany
    So you make your books, reversing everything ...
  19. +4
    11 August 2018 07: 53
    Quote: V.S.
    You wouldn’t be so active in showing that the rezuns are nicer to you and you are from their shobli


    Oh you, old crook and liar! The traitor Rezun wrote about the first Soviet attack on Germany.
    Find me a wordwhere it is written about the attack of the USSR on Germany
    So you make your books, reversing everything ...
  20. +2
    11 August 2018 07: 55
    Quote: V.S.
    and your verbiage rezunskoe


    Yes, your intelligence level is below the baseboard. Rezun also wrote about the first attack of the Soviet Union on Germany.
    And you, a crook and a liar, find at least a word about this in my material.
    If you misinterpret everything in front of users, how do you raise your hands to lie in books for people ??
  21. 0
    11 August 2018 10: 42
    Quote: V.S.
    Sandalov clearly showed - about DIVISIONS shown against HIS army on June 5 and your verbiage is Rezunsky - it makes no sense

    Did you come tonight? This is a delirium tremens .. Have you ever drunk abroad? stop liar kozinkin
  22. -3
    23 September 2018 11: 21
    Author:
    aKtoR writes:
    You already know that reconnaissance reports of the General Staff of the General Staff regularly arrive at the headquarters of ZAPOVO, and reports from RO Zapovo also regularly go to the General Staff of the General Staff.

    The author, as always, "forgot" to indicate how often intelligence reports are sent from the districts to the General Staff's Directorate, and how often intelligence reports are received from the General Staff in the districts, and this is a very important detail in order to understand why there were discrepancies in the assessment of the enemy. For example, the well-known intelligence report No. 5 of the Russian General Staff of the General Staff of 15 June fixes the grouping of German troops on June 1, 1941, and not on June 15. So the author, absolutely without delving into the essence of the documents, draws illiterate conclusions about what the districts knew about the enemy, and what operational information they received from the General Staff of the General Staff, taking into account the fact that, due to the secrecy regime, the underlying structures are not informed about everything. And it becomes obvious that the author never learned how to seriously evaluate the documents of those years, apparently due to the lack of objective knowledge about the armed forces.

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