Northern latitudinal way: just one spoonful of tar

91


In Russia, there is another "building of the century." Quietly, without much pomp, work began on the construction of the so-called Northern Latitudinal Railway. This, if in brief, is the railway that will have to connect the west and east of the Yamalo-Nenets Autonomous District. The project plans to connect the Northern Railway with the Sverdlovsk Railway, having laid and reconstructed railway tracks almost from Vorkuta to the Korotchaevo station.



It would seem, nothing serious: the length of the path will be 686 km (previously called the figure 707 kilometers). In both cases we agree: for the Russian scale this is not very much, and it seems that some of the epithets given to this project in the media (such as “building the future” or “strategic breakthrough”) are at least somewhat excessive. Moreover, this project is the first in Russia stories implemented on the terms of a concession agreement, and the direct participation of the Russian state in it is not so great.

However, things are not so simple, and the Northern Latitudinal Railway does deserve to be distinguished from just a series of large infrastructure projects. And that's why.



The most obvious: the construction will be carried out in the conditions of the Arctic. Cold, permafrost, difficult soils, huge (without exaggeration) rivers - all this builders will have to overcome, and in a fairly short time. One bridge across the Ob, in the lower reaches of this mighty river, almost at the entrance to the Gulf of Ob, is already quite drawn to a small "national project." And all this is scheduled to end in the 2023 year. You can judge whether this is a lot or a little, for example, by the fact that a strategically important section of the railway, bypassing Ukraine, was built for about three years. And this is under incomparable climatic conditions.

Expected cost of the project - 236 billion rubles. Moreover, the state will have only 30 billions, which will be allocated for guarantees on borrowed funds. It is clear that the funds of the government of the YNAO are also not private, and Russian Railways, which allocate 105 billions to the project, is also not a private shop. But all the same, we have to agree - the load on the federal budget is expected to be minimal, and with the calculation of the five-year project implementation period, it is almost imperceptible at all. Especially considering the expected benefits from it, which is so far even difficult to measure with a ruble.

It is expected that about 24 million tons of cargo will be transported annually by the new railway. Basically, of course, it is gas condensate and oil - the resources traditional for this region. Back will go building materials, equipment, supplies and supplies, products and more. Also, the new expensive will make it profitable to develop several large fields in the region, which are now considered difficult to access.

This project is also important from other points of view. First, it will connect the Northern and Sverdlovsk railways, making it possible to freer cargo maneuvering, unloading the already heavily loaded Transsib in some situations, as well as giving new impetus to ports on the Arctic Ocean.

Secondly, in case of successful implementation of the project, the lower currents of the great Siberian rivers Ob and Yenisei will be interconnected, which, among other things, also has some military strategic importance.

Thirdly, it will literally be easy to get to Igarka, Dudinka and Norilsk. This is a few hundred kilometers in the most difficult polar conditions. And yet the likelihood of such construction is considered now. If the experience of laying the Northern Latitudinal Railway is successful, the construction of its continuation to Norilsk and Dudinka is expected no later than 2030.

Well, there, probably, it will be possible to think about the huge throw through the permafrost to Lena, Yakutsk and, probably, Magadan. Does it look fiction now? Far from it! If we assume that the construction of a kilometer of a polar railway costs not much more than the construction of a high-speed railway, then the experience of China, which has already hit 20 000 kilometers of naval forces, shows us that everything is real ...

But let's not get too far ahead. So far we are just stating: the NL project has both a serious economic rationale at the moment, and the prospect of turning into an extremely important strategic “bridge” between the west and east of our country over time. Moreover, it will be held at a considerable distance from the border with China, which will ensure both its own high resilience compared to Transsib and the higher geopolitical resilience of our state to the challenges it may face in two or three decades.

The only fly in the ointment is a rather strange and not very clear scheme of participation of the subjects of the concession agreement in the construction of separate sections of the NL. The fact is that each major project participant is assigned a separate section of the road, which he will have to erect.

On the one hand, it seems logical: each company has its own area of ​​work and its responsibility. But we understand perfectly well that in our conditions everything is a little different: our site, and therefore our contractor. And where there is a "own" contractor, a "rollback" is not excluded, which can go into the pockets of a narrow circle of "interested persons".

Perhaps this practice is too common for modern Russia. And many will give up: “if only they would do the work”. And nevertheless I will allow myself to disagree: in the end, Gazprom is not exactly a private shop, and the money he spends supposedly out of his profit could partially end up in the country's budget. But there are still several “concessionaires”, each of which to some extent belongs to the state.
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  1. +11
    31 July 2018 05: 19
    Now this is a common thing ... A lot of money is being spent on projects that will never make a profit ... The total debt of the same Gazprom is three times its capitalization ... From the point of view of a normal economy, this is impossible to explain ...
    1. +22
      31 July 2018 07: 35
      The National Guard was built, now those who disagree will be sent not to Magadan, but to Vorkuta in stages by piece of iron. It remains to wait for the Law on the prohibition of criticism of the Government and its ruling party, and forward - "nah nord"! belay
      1. +1
        31 July 2018 10: 42
        And zk, how do you think they still deliver to Norilsk? You will not believe my colleague, after dispersing the division, served in the Ministry of Internal Affairs as civilian aircraft ?!
        1. +1
          31 July 2018 18: 22
          And who is stopping now to build a railway in Norilsk? The construction of the school does not bring Norilsk closer to the "Big Earth". What goods are going to be transported from Vorkuta to Urengoy? Why connect them to railway. It seems to me that the railway to the Yenisei is significantly IMPORTANT.
          1. +4
            2 August 2018 14: 56
            Quote: Vard
            Gazprom’s total debt is three times its capitalization ... From the point of view of a normal economy, it is impossible to explain ...

            Look not at capitalization, but at revenue and gross profit. Then you will have a different picture in your head. And everything will fall into place. hi
      2. +1
        31 July 2018 14: 30
        The main criterion, they still build in Russia, and do not steal and buy palaces in London .. As for corruption and theft, so the investigating committee and other prosecutors should work ...
        1. -1
          31 July 2018 17: 17
          Quote: Vladimir 5
          The main criterion, they still build in Russia, and do not steal and buy palaces in London

          But doesn’t it interfere with one another, or doesn’t they cut budget money from us now, and have everyone become honest? Something has changed??
    2. +17
      31 July 2018 07: 57
      Quote: Vard
      Huge money is spent on projects that will never make a profit ...

      And when you make repairs in your apartment, does it pay off like that?
      1. +8
        31 July 2018 08: 41
        Apartment renovation is done in order not to live in pigs and to equip your life, comfort, or for further sale at a higher price. But this has nothing to do with the economy, just as your wife bought herself a new fur coat and boots, and you have a pair of socks and a tie for your own moneywinked
        1. +9
          31 July 2018 11: 39
          Apartment renovation is done in order not to live in pigs and to equip your life, comfort, or for further sale at a higher price. But this has nothing to do with economics
          - i.e. Does your family budget affect repairs? laughing Does heavenly manna help? laughing People live in northern cities and the lack of railway and infrastructure greatly affects the lives of these people, including the ruble, too.
          I live in Yakutsk, the city is located on the banks of the Lena River, the absence of a bridge actually cuts off the city and more than half of the republic twice a year in spring and autumn from the mainland, only an airplane remains ....
          1. +1
            31 July 2018 13: 54
            You will not pass through the republic in spring and autumn ...
          2. 0
            31 July 2018 19: 50
            Quote: faiver
            I live in Yakutsk, the city is located on the banks of the Lena River, the lack of a bridge actually cuts off the city and more than half of the republic twice a year in spring and autumn from the mainland, only an airplane remains ....

            Railway, for example, from Norilsk or Magadan will help you?
            1. +1
              31 July 2018 19: 59
              railway from BAM was brought to us, approximately 30km from the city, but again on the other side of the river .... hi
              1. -1
                1 August 2018 15: 36
                For the leadership of your country, the construction of a bridge to annexed Crimea turned out to be more important than the construction of a long-standing bridge across the river. Lena in the region of Yakutsk. As they say, if it is added somewhere, it will be taken away somewhere ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. +3
                  1 August 2018 17: 15
                  My dear, you don’t drag Crimea here, it was Russian is Russian and will be Russian ...
                3. +2
                  3 August 2018 20: 37
                  Quote: Keith Land
                  For the leadership of your country, the construction of a bridge to annexed Crimea turned out to be more important than the construction of a long-standing bridge across the river. Lena in the region of Yakutsk. As they say, if it is added somewhere, it will be taken away somewhere ...


                  For the leadership of “your country”, the most important thing was to break and destroy everything that had not yet been destroyed or broken. And Crimea over time will be able to receive more and more tourists, and Russians will not leave small money there, but not in Turkey.
        2. 0
          31 July 2018 19: 09
          Moreover, it will take place at a considerable distance from the border with China, which will provide both its own high stability compared to the Trans-Siberian Railway, and higher geopolitical stability of our state against the challenges that it may face in two to three decades.

          WILL BE UNDER THE STRIKE OF THE AMERICA NPS
      2. 0
        31 July 2018 18: 24
        If the repair is not done for the show off, then it will naturally pay off.
    3. +4
      31 July 2018 11: 53
      Quote: Vard
      Now this is a common thing ... A lot of money is being spent on projects that will never make a profit ... The total debt of the same Gazprom is three times its capitalization ... From the point of view of a normal economy, this is impossible to explain ...


      In the North, in general, building something like this capital in today's realities is astronomically expensive and risky. Permafrost degradation makes any complex and precise construction unstable. According to modern research, most of our North is not even land, but sand and ice. When the temperature rises, it all just floats away into the ocean. Although the money can be mastered through a concession, the more they are pumped from state-owned companies - consider the same from the budget. In such conditions, only the shift method and temporary construction are economically justified. The cities there are a big problem so far. They are very difficult to maintain and extremely expensive.
    4. 0
      31 July 2018 12: 24
      yes well)) they won’t give directly ?? .. you probably thought the letters))))
    5. +5
      31 July 2018 12: 46
      Quote: Vard
      Now this is a common thing ... A lot of money is being spent on projects that will never make a profit ... The total debt of the same Gazprom is three times its capitalization ... From the point of view of a normal economy, this is impossible to explain ...

      Sorry, but did you read the article to the end or stopped on the 5th paragraph? The author, for example, lists the solid pluses from this project, but it seems to you that the total amount of the project stood across and blocked the desire to read the article to the end.
    6. +8
      31 July 2018 13: 15
      At one time, the tsar, who just didn’t “kick” for the Transib, and then 1941, and this probably saved Russia.
      It's time to realize that for such a huge country as Russia, roads (albeit seemingly unprofitable) are the first thing good , without them, the development and existence of Russia is impossible. Suppose that something seems unprofitable, that it is stolen, it is more important that the road that will sew our country together remains forever. For yes, our country falls apart if there are roads, but if there are no roads, incentives are created for both collapse and degradation. Thus, this implicit opposition to the creation of conditions for the collapse of Russia.
    7. The comment was deleted.
  2. +9
    31 July 2018 06: 28
    Quote: "The fact is that each major project participant is assigned a separate section of the road that he will have to build."
    The author forgot to add "for my money." Therefore, there are several concessionaires - one cannot do this. In this option, kickbacks do not matter - this is not budget money, but the money of specific investors, and therefore the investor should worry about their fair use and subsequent payback.
    1. +2
      31 July 2018 10: 52
      The fact is that each major project participant has a separate section of the road that he will have to build.
      This is a bad example. Omsk Arena was built with the participation of private capital (Abramovich, a company from Switzerland, etc., etc. all super-duper expertise). As a result, after 10 (ten) years there is a question about the demolition of the emergency building. Entrusting the construction of a private company is a direct cut of the dough. As an example, the space center does not have money, they put a couple of switchmen to divert their eyes a bit, but where is the final result?
      1. +1
        31 July 2018 11: 42
        ALL builders ALWAYS brazenly sawed-stolen, found sophisticated methods. Including during the USSR. The experiments were never interrupted. And in private construction companies there is now more order, at least workers are afraid to steal directly, and the bosses do not take them into their share - they are mocking the hegemon.
        1. +1
          31 July 2018 11: 46
          Railway should build specialists from private owners only money according to estimates.
      2. -1
        31 July 2018 18: 22
        For such construction, there is construction supervision (municipal or state). Here they are the main culprits of the marriage, demand from them, to plant them in full, because the kickbacks clearly received, once accepted and signed acts of acceptance for each constructive structure ...
  3. +8
    31 July 2018 06: 48
    First, the author agrees that the project is economically calculated, the road is necessary and has strategic importance, then suddenly there are doubts about the financial activities of the project participants. So doubts about “kickbacks”, not intended use, arise during the implementation of any large (and not only) project and often find confirmation. But this does not mean that in this case not to build.
    1. +5
      31 July 2018 11: 58
      Dear, rotmistr60 (Gennady). "... But that doesn’t mean that in this case you don’t build." - Your phrase raises a lot of questions.
      1. Why?
      2. Whose money is it? (Of the 236 billion rubles, the state’s share will be “only” 30 billion, the funds of the Yamal-Nenets government are also not private, and Russian Railways, which allocate 105 billion for the project, are from the author’s article. It turns out that the state invests more than 50% in this project.)
      3. Who are these subjects of the concession agreement in the construction of individual sections of the secondary school?
      4. Who will be the main Beneficiary?
      5. How will the allocated money be returned to the budget of Russia and for how long?
      I think everyone understands that the Northern Latitudinal Railway is not being built to create products with high surplus value, but to export natural resources from inaccessible regions of Russia. The author did not answer the most important question: WHAT WILL THE PEOPLE GET FROM THIS?
      P.S. Let us recall the PROJECT "Yamal LNG", which is not particularly advertised.
      "... Yamal LNG" (the first private LNG plant in Russia, being built on the basis of the South Tambeyskoye field.) Is far from the only gas mega-project receiving large tax breaks, the benefits of which are not obvious for the Russian economy .... Putting the plant into operation is a merit not only of shareholders, but also of Russian taxpayers who generously subsidized them.The South Tambeyskoye field, which serves as a resource base for Yamal LNG, will be exempted from MET for gas in the first 12 years of production, provided that it the total volume for this period will not exceed 250 billion cubic meters.On the same conditions, exemption from property tax and income tax benefits is provided, which will be not 18%, but 13,5%. Until the end of the construction of the plant, shareholders are exempt from payment VAT on the purchase of equipment that has no analogues in Russia, and upon its completion they will be able to use the zero duty on LNG export.The project received direct subsidies: in 2015, the government approved purchase of bonds of Yamal LNG for 150 billion rubles. from the National Welfare Fund. At the expense of the state, three-quarters (71 billion of 96 billion rubles) were funded for the construction of the cargo port of Sabetta. ... Strange, it turns out, raw dependence: it’s not the gas industry that supports the budget, but rather, taxpayers subsidize gas producers ... "
      More details at RBC: https://www.rbc.ru/opinions/business/11/12/2017/5
      a2e37599a79476b576c3f91
      1. +4
        31 July 2018 12: 06
        More at RBC
        Sorry, but the link to this resource is not for me. Regarding the questions you asked - this is not for me, but ask the government for a project and economic calculations for it.
        1. +3
          31 July 2018 12: 30
          You said you need to build. I tried to find out why? To export natural resources? And you send me to the government. So you yourself do not know why the school is being built. Here's the link. It works for me.
          https://www.rbc.ru/opinions/business/11/12/2017/5
          a2e37599a79476b576c3f91
          P.S. Try searching for an article - Gas Benefit: How the State Held Build Yamal LNG
          1. +1
            31 July 2018 20: 52
            I recall the project of the Transpolar Railway, conceived by Stalin. Construction began in 1947, and ended almost immediately after his death. In 1954, the cost of incomplete capital construction was estimated at 1.800.000.000. Rubles.
            1. +4
              1 August 2018 10: 06
              Quote: Reptiloid
              I recall the project of the Transpolar Railway, conceived by Stalin. Construction began in 1947, and ended almost immediately after his death. In 1954, the cost of incomplete capital construction was estimated at 1.800.000.000. Rubles.

              Yeah ... and 15 years after that, they began to rebuild the "useless road". Because it turned out that helicopters are good, but a piece of iron is better.
  4. 0
    31 July 2018 07: 13
    Latitudinal, sprat, scruff of which they just can’t come up with here.
  5. +11
    31 July 2018 07: 14
    That's interesting, China since the reign of Den Xiaoping, this is the beginning of the 80s of the last century, built 20000 km of railway roads in 40 years. In a year it turns out, the Chinese build 500 km of high-speed roads. We bypassed Ukraine - 160 km, they built 3 years: 56 km / year. A simple calculation, 700 km of secondary school will be built for at least 10-15 years, and maybe more. By then, either the padishah will die, or the donkey.
    The Moscow-Kazan High-Speed ​​Railway should have started to build 5 years ago. There are also about 700 km. Where is this road?
    Railway construction is the direct responsibility of the government and Russian Railways. If the government and Russian Railways can not cope with this task, then maybe it’s the government ...
    1. +2
      31 July 2018 07: 37
      In July, the Chinese set a world record - in 7 hours (work shift) they built over 300 km of high-speed rail tracks, for our efforts in 3 years 160 km of ordinary railway bypassing Ukraine, the country's leadership and the railways should be ashamed.
      1. +15
        31 July 2018 07: 44
        And how many people in China did IT build? And we have one military unit. And built on time. With stations and railway stations. Housing for workers and driveways ... Why be vicious? They built the Crimean bridge, and even surrendered the car part ahead of schedule. What not to criticize?
        1. +1
          31 July 2018 08: 14
          According to reports - 500 people. Previously, 1500 workers with 30 pieces of equipment in 9 hours built a railway interchange in Fujian with the installation of semaphores, signs, lighting, and traffic controls.
          1. +4
            31 July 2018 10: 57
            ] According to reports - 500 people. Previously, 1500 workers with 30 pieces of equipment in 9 hours built a railway interchange in Fujian with the installation of semaphores, signs, lighting, and traffic controls. Sorry, but as a person related to the railway I will answer with the words of a classic, I DO NOT BELIEVE!
            1. +4
              31 July 2018 11: 44
              More precisely, this is not about the full construction cycle, but only about laying the canvas, and this is the second way, parallel to the existing first. But still impressive.
              1. +2
                31 July 2018 15: 30
                Quote: KelWin
                More precisely, this is not about the full construction cycle, but only about laying the canvas, and this is the second way, parallel to the existing first. But still impressive.

                That is, this is the same record for the construction of the railway as the record time for the construction of Liberty transports - there, too, the "construction period" took the time from the start of the assembly of the ship from pre-prepared blocks to launch. Preliminary work on the preparation of these same blocks from the construction time was crossed out - and as a result, the ship formally It was built in a few days. smile
            2. 0
              1 August 2018 12: 23
              You can watch the video, on YouTube it is.
            3. 0
              3 August 2018 22: 30
              Quote: prapor55
              with setting semaphores

              Semaphores are long outdated and have not been used anywhere since about the 50s of the last century ..
          2. +1
            31 July 2018 11: 57
            Quote: cobalt
            in 9 hours they built a railway interchange in Fujian with the installation of semaphores,

            I’m embarrassed to ask, semaphore - is such a hand protruding on a post? So you need to pull the cable there, the cable will be stolen, the semaphore will not work. What are you pouring!
          3. +1
            1 August 2018 18: 26
            Quote: cobalt
            According to reports - 500 people. Previously, 1500 workers with 30 pieces of equipment in 9 hours built a railway interchange in Fujian with the installation of semaphores, signs, lighting, and traffic controls.

            It is physically impossible. There are certain periods during which the upper structure of the path should simply lie down. For nine parts (which is also doubtful), you can build rooms, alarm systems, but not the denouement itself.
      2. +1
        31 July 2018 11: 05
        We will never understand the Chinese; they have a different mentality. But for some reason they needed dozens of new cities - ghosts for millions of inhabitants, but nobody lives there at all! And along the high-speed railways there are not even dead people with braids.belay
        1. +1
          31 July 2018 11: 51
          Quote: siberalt
          But for some reason they needed dozens of new cities - ghosts for millions of inhabitants, but nobody lives there at all!

          They didn’t dare that VAT could be introduced - and there would be no overproduction of ghost towns. The Chinese, duck. Urgently send him the economic unit of our government to exchange experiences!
        2. 0
          31 July 2018 15: 02
          Most likely you exaggerated a little. But the whole micro-districts empty in them are actually built in many cities - this is due to the fact that they have a largely planned economy, and planning errors lead to such interesting effects. Under the union, too, half of the country was in unfinished. What got into the plan was built. The next year did not fall into the plan. Thrown unfinished went to build a new unfinished. Then, after the third unfinished building, the first one was completed if they did not forget to pawn the money. (I exaggerate a little naturally)
      3. +2
        31 July 2018 12: 01
        Quote: cobalt
        world record - in 7 hours (work shift) over 300 km of high-speed railway lines were built,

        List of work please. Did they also make a ballast prism in 7 hours, or did they just throw the grate?
      4. 0
        31 July 2018 16: 39
        And how many people were involved there? And the technology? There is no need to compare the Chinese approach with ours, although the notes of the past “must be put to the N-number” also slip through us - and there are three days left ... Will you go to work at such facilities for 20 hours a day? Yes, for payment of 8 hours? Well, the motherland said - it is NECESSARY ...
    2. +2
      31 July 2018 08: 29
      Quote: The Truth
      The Moscow-Kazan High-Speed ​​Railway should have started to build 5 years ago. There are also about 700 km. Where is this road?

      These five years are such (oil in 2014 has fallen in price by 2,5 times !!!), we should be glad that we could do so much - it took a lot of money to Crimea (Most, 2 TPP, the new airport Simferopol - handsome), the 2018 World Cup (9 stadiums were built and 2 were reconstructed) and much more.
      1. 0
        31 July 2018 11: 48
        Quote: vlad007
        The 2018 World Cup was held (9 stadiums were built and 2 were reconstructed) and much more.

        And our men are finding jobs in FC Monaco, again Mr. Rybolovlev’s money is being returned to his homeland. They won’t let Abramovich let Chelsea steer, and here Monaco will import substitute!
    3. +1
      31 July 2018 10: 25
      And what do you think, for three years, in Russia they built only a railway bypassing Ukraine - you are very mistaken.
      1. +2
        31 July 2018 11: 42
        Quote: Vadim237
        What do you think, for three years, in Russia they built only a railway bypassing Ukraine

        Yes, that's exactly what we think. Tsar Nikolashka shoved the whole empire off the road at the end of the 19th century, and we - how many kilometers? Is this an average of 40 km / year? In the 21st century? Didn’t we take into account permafrost, treacherous Hunhus? Or what prevented us? Did people build a summer house for the general from the road? Or what? There was no Old Year's lattice; did you have to do a new one? Sleepers creosote after sawing? Carried them (sleepers) from the Angarsk timber factory? Or did they hope that the President of all Ukraine would be scared and ask for pardon? And we don’t have to do anything?
        ,
        1. +1
          31 July 2018 15: 58
          Quote: 97110
          Tsar Nikolashka cut the whole empire off the road at the end of the 19th century

          In order to build this road, the king introduced a bunch of additional taxes and attracted foreign capital in an amount far exceeding his contribution:
          The Siberian Railway was built under state leadership and with state funds. An important source of these was taxes, many of which were introduced or raised from the late 1870s to the early 1890s. These steps allowed the budget to receive up to 15 billion rubles over the course of 1,5 years. [1, p. 97]. In addition to this, in the first ten years of the construction of the Trans-Siberian Railway, a housing tax was introduced, the tax on taxes was increased, the taxation of alcoholic beverages was extremely strengthened, the taxation of sugar, tobacco, many imported goods, kerosene, matches was increased, and stamp duty was increased [4, p. 323]. As a result, in 1903, during the post-crisis depression at a meeting of the State Council, Witte S. Yu was forced to admit that “direct and indirect taxation of the population has reached the extreme limit of its tension ... Further burdening of taxes would be a measure ... hardly even generally admissible under the existing economic situation of the country ”[1, p. 95].
          However, there was not enough private budget funds for large-scale investments. This is confirmed, for example, by the fact that immediately after his appointment as Minister of Finance, Witte S. Yu. Planned to conduct an additional issue of paper money (“Siberian” rubles) and pay for a railway construction in Siberia with them. More experienced financiers dissuaded him from this step [1, p. fifteen]. In this state of the domestic economy, government foreign loans were the most important source of capital.
          Modern calculations by V. I. Bovykin show that in 1893 in the Russian economy there were 2,1 billion rubles. foreign capital, 70,6% of which were state railway loans. Twenty years later, foreign investment reached an amount of 3,7 billion rubles, 76,5% of which were government loans [calculated from: 2, p. 105]. According to the data cited by this researcher, in the period 1893-1913. total investment in railway construction increased from 2,7 to 4,9 billion rubles, i.e. almost 2,3 billion, of which the treasury's own funds covered only 0,7 billion, and the remaining 1,6 billion accounted for foreign capital.

          Gilko M.A. TRANS-SIBERIAN HIGHWAY: FOR WHOM AND AT whose expense // Actual problems of social sciences: sociology, political science, philosophy, history: collection of books. Art. by mater. XI Int. scientific-practical conf. - Novosibirsk: SibAK, 2012. https://sibac.info/conf/social/xi/27733
    4. 0
      31 July 2018 11: 49
      Ek, you, my friend, famously distribute responsibility! Why does the government SHOULD deal with the piece of iron? Whoever needs to carry arises, let him do it himself. Or negotiates with Russian Railways. Let’s be responsible for our work, to carry out as it should - this is a lot, but not everyone is able to be able to.
  6. +3
    31 July 2018 07: 41
    A necessary and very difficult matter. Concessionaires do not ask for money from the budget ... Well, the fact that concessionaires are partly state-owned companies is, in the first place, partly. And secondly, the prosecutor’s business is to catch “schemes” of kickbacks. Too thin line between “profit” and “rollback”.
  7. 0
    31 July 2018 08: 19
    And will the ports on these rivers develop?
  8. +1
    31 July 2018 08: 25
    Some kind of stupid fly in the ointment. According to this logic, it is necessary to ban all construction projects in the country due to the fact that kickbacks are possible there. Schools, hospitals, roads, but why build them? "Your" contractor is potentially possible there
    And where there is an “own” contractor, a “kickback” is also possible, which can go into the pockets of a narrow circle of “interested parties”.

  9. +8
    31 July 2018 08: 29
    the experience of China, which has already drunk 20 000 kilometers of the Navy, shows us that everything is real ...
    The experience of China shows that if you have an economy like China, a government like China, the fight against corruption like China, industry like China, then you can build railways like in China. And the experience of Russia shows that Russia is not China.
    1. 0
      31 July 2018 11: 54
      Well said, Alex! Respect! Let’s do better at home than in China! Who's stopping ?!
  10. +3
    31 July 2018 08: 31
    The main objective of this project is to provide human resources. Even the railways that exist in
    the Norilsk region require a lot of money for their maintenance. So the main thing is not to build a railway, but its
    still need to be kept in original condition.
  11. BAI
    0
    31 July 2018 09: 01
    For some reason, Miller did not say anything about this construction site at the annual meeting of shareholders.
    1. +2
      31 July 2018 10: 28
      Its continuation will be Salekhard - Igarka - along the path of the Stalin construction.
      1. 0
        31 July 2018 11: 00
        Not Igarka, the road ended in Ermakovo, this is to the south. A depot has already been built there and steam locomotives have been delivered.
        1. 0
          31 July 2018 11: 44
          locomotives delivered.
          - under Stalin? laughing
          1. 0
            31 July 2018 21: 06
            Yes, under Stalin.
  12. +1
    31 July 2018 10: 05
    Quote: vlad007
    In this option, kickbacks do not matter - this is not budget money, but the money of specific investors, and therefore the investor should worry about their fair use and subsequent payback.

    Even as they have. You see, oddly enough, the participation of concessionaires and the state extends to the financing of all types of work. Everything is done very simply, the budget is inflated and the work on it is paid by both a private investor and the state, but only the investor pays for himself the money not included in it, but much less, based on real costs, and already wins, but to the heap receives superprofits from the state. And believe me, as soon as an investor tries to argue and point to double and triple cost accounting, he runs to the appropriate curator-official and everyone (technical supervision, expertise, etc.) immediately wring their hands and oblige them to pay according to the estimate that the investor pushes " “based on the social significance of the object” and blah blah blah. This is the answer to why some “especially close to the emperor” have a craving for such “national projects”, 200-300% of the profits come from here. in some kind of eating from what’s happening, because it’s not about the need to build serious state facilities, but about determining their priority and, accordingly, the order of construction, a reasonable approach in choosing design solutions (for example, few know but the Union of Metro Builders of Russia at one time was calculating options for a tunnel to the Crimea, which would be both cheaper and safer in terms of all kinds of threats, and even more tenacious in time). And the price plays an important role. For such money, which is oversized, one can build several serious projects or at least minimize losses from the fact that the country tightens the belt by another hole, abandoning other socially significant objects (schools, kindergartens, etc.).
    1. +1
      31 July 2018 10: 31
      "Crimean tunnel survivable in wartime" - One hit of an anti-bunker bomb and the entire tunnel will be flooded.
      1. +1
        31 July 2018 11: 21
        Objects such as bridges and tunnels are, in principle, the most vulnerable in wartime, there is already a very conditional difference: which of them is more survivable, with modern means of destruction, and that will survive until the first massive strike. It’s at least easier to reconstruct the bridge, you’ll have to pump water out of the tunnel, and on the bridge it’s enough to throw a temporary bridge over the collapsed span.
  13. 0
    31 July 2018 10: 55
    Quote: Vadim237
    "Crimean tunnel survivable in wartime" - One hit of an anti-bunker bomb and the entire tunnel will be flooded.

    One free-falling 250 kg or a close gap of 1 ton is enough for the bridge. Tunnels of this kind are built in parallel double-track, the destruction of one does not affect the neighboring. A good example is the Channel Tunnel; by the way, it is 39 km in the underwater part.
    But at the same time, it is not possible to ram in a dry cargo ship, crash into a shahid boat, drop a bomb on it from any plane, or damage a falling plane, it is very difficult to undermine saboteurs, etc.
  14. 0
    31 July 2018 11: 08
    It turns out interestingly. This northern highway has already been built. Novy Urengoy was founded as a village of road builders. At the same time, a tunnel was being built on Sakhalin. But the death of the leader stopped these constructions. For some reason, they are now surfacing at the same time. Is this economic feasibility, or is someone wanting to be on a par with the political giant?
    1. 0
      31 July 2018 11: 29
      Quote: Igor V
      Is it economic feasibility, or is someone wanting to be on a par with the political giant?

      It does not interfere.
    2. +1
      31 July 2018 12: 46
      Quote: Igor V
      stand up to the political giant?

      Dwarfs will never equal the giant!
    3. +1
      31 July 2018 13: 55
      Quote: Igor V
      Is it economic feasibility, or is someone wanting to be on a par with the political giant?

      This is once again economic feasibility. The Stalin Trans-Polar Railway is being restored for the second time - for the first time it was partially recreated (in the lightened version) in the 70s of the last century, when oil and gas workers needed a railway connection to develop fields. Then came perestroika and the collapse of the USSR - and the restored plots fell into decay.
    4. 0
      25 November 2018 17: 16
      Libera, in the person of Nikita and others like him, cheated on the project, spoiled it in every possible way, killing the labor of many thousands of people, then hushed up all this for many years.

      Bleformatorist liberalism in the so-called perestroika and after the coup d'etat of 1991 - 93. she created the myths about the SSh as a “dead road” and a “road to nowhere” that she used to justify her vile actions - driving, in Chubaisyatinsky terms, nails into the coffin of communism, that is, the destruction of the country's economy, created by the work of many generations.

      But this is not the only project hacked by both Khrushchev and the young bla-formators.

      And now they have come to their senses, returned to the project, to the construction. Moreover, without advertising that it was a Stalinist initiative.

      If the road was built at least by the beginning of the sixties, what development would the North of Siberia receive, and with it the whole country - the Soviet Union? And what would be the “bleformer ”’s chances for a 1991-93 coup in this case?
  15. 0
    31 July 2018 11: 20
    You need to unload the Transsiberian, this is a fact, but whether there will be sufficient loading for such a branch is another question. It is necessary to develop Yamal, maybe from this branch active development will begin just?
  16. +4
    31 July 2018 11: 25
    Construction materials, machinery, supplies and supplies, products and much more will go back.
    I hope the author will take the trouble to explain to us how it is to transport bulk goods by train, and back - general cargoes? My knowledge obtained at the end of the 20th century is still valid in the 21st century. Only empty containers are transported back: empty tanks there, and open wagons, covered wagons and platforms - back. If the feasibility study of the project is so deeply thought out, then - sadly take off our hat! The turnover of cars doubles!
    1. 0
      31 July 2018 11: 36
      They will report on an increase in the turnover of cars! laughing
      1. +2
        31 July 2018 15: 56
        And with them, and new locomotives will go into a series - gas turbines, liquefied gas
        1. +1
          31 July 2018 19: 21
          2te10 that Budenny's horse is getting older will ride there, how it will unload the Trans-Siberian Railway is unclear: from this point of view, Belkamur is more practical
          1. +1
            3 August 2018 21: 16
            I suggest that you pray for 2te10 in the Soviet version, having six years of experience in operating the TEM18DM, I can confidently say that in the menacing period the Russian Railways will get a stake. And a herd of managers will rush through the landfills to look for everything that they did not have time to "upgrade"!
            1. +1
              4 August 2018 00: 37
              Relighting didn’t get along with us, but 2 also didn’t see 70 for a long time ....
  17. 0
    31 July 2018 15: 16
    nasty voice, but in general informative.
  18. +1
    1 August 2018 09: 33
    Secondly, in case of successful implementation of the project, the lower currents of the great Siberian rivers Ob and Yenisei will be interconnected, which, among other things, also has some military strategic importance.
    Thirdly, it will literally be easy to get to Igarka, Dudinka and Norilsk. This is a few hundred kilometers in the most difficult polar conditions. And yet the likelihood of such construction is considered now. If the experience of laying the Northern Latitudinal Railway is successful, the construction of its continuation to Norilsk and Dudinka is expected no later than 2030.
    In fact, if you look at the map, you can immediately see that Korotchaevo from the Yenisei is located in hundreds of kilometers of off-road taiga and tundra. Therefore, it is not necessary to carry nonsense about the "unification of the Ob and Yenisei by transport". And to build a bridge in the lower reaches of such a wide and giant river as the Yenisei, this is a very expensive task. Yes, and there isn’t much point in building this bridge, since the Norilsk people fly to Moscow by plane, no one will shake on the train for a week. Well and most importantly, ore is exported from Norilsk and imported products and other goods through the NSR, it is cheaper than by rail.
  19. +2
    1 August 2018 19: 53
    Quote: Alex_59
    the experience of China, which has already drunk 20 000 kilometers of the Navy, shows us that everything is real ...
    The experience of China shows that if you have an economy like China, a government like China, the fight against corruption like China, industry like China, then you can build railways like in China. And the experience of Russia shows that Russia is not China.


    If taxes were introduced in Russia as in China, pensions as in China, fertility policies as in China, working hours as in China, restrictions on the Internet and free speech as in China, then at least 90 percent of VO users would have hanged on the first day laughing And those who go to rallies and are somehow dissatisfied with the authorities in China will be put to the wall, and not just those who steal, as some here think. Whizers. You are whining about the retirement age, which is one of the lowest in the world, and which is not yet they raised it, you’ll whine about VAT, forgetting who made it to you 18 percent in 2004, and then they were the same as you whined, that Putin lowered it for the rating, and that it’s a penny, and now it hasn’t been returned yet, but everything is working fine they whine at a carbon copy. Why the hell do you need such a country? Are you really ballast? Natural selection. The weak will die under the most ideal conditions, and the strong will survive under the most severe.
  20. 0
    2 August 2018 03: 16
    Yes, it is of great importance construction.
    After all, the Russian railway is like a skeleton of a herring: something in front of the Urals, and then the naked Trans-Siberian Railway. It turns out that to go from Vorkuta to Norilsk, you must go through Moscow! Connecting latitudinal branches are very, very necessary. And SSH is a radical project of the global latitudinal connection.
    I would suggest to think about this. Is the railway adequate to northern conditions? Say, one inventor back in the 30s offered a train. Wouldn’t it be better to let some fly-over ball-trains cross the tundra? And carry containers (easily overloaded)?
    1. ZVO
      0
      2 August 2018 07: 11
      Quote: M. Michelson
      Yes, it is of great importance construction.
      After all, the Russian railway is like a skeleton of a herring: something in front of the Urals, and then the naked Trans-Siberian Railway. It turns out that to go from Vorkuta to Norilsk, you must go through Moscow! Connecting latitudinal branches are very, very necessary. And SSH is a radical project of the global latitudinal connection.
      I would suggest to think about this. Is the railway adequate to northern conditions? Say, one inventor back in the 30s offered a train. Wouldn’t it be better to let some fly-over ball-trains cross the tundra? And carry containers (easily overloaded)?


      Why go from Vorkuta to Norilsk?
      For example..

      All passenger flows are definable .. and predictable.
      Passenger traffic "City-Village" - we predict. computed and stable.
      For example
      From the village of Gorshki to the village of Tupitsa - there will be 1 person for one year ...
      But in the central Perm region - constantly stable then from each of this village ...

      Do you understand the meaning of my words?
      And yes. I directly say that both Vorkuta and Norilsk are villages ...
  21. -1
    3 August 2018 18: 32
    Quote: Mih1974
    Suppose that something seems unprofitable, that something is stolen, it’s more important that the road that remains forever ...

    will be washed away by the shower the day after the solemn calculation of losses and stolen money!
    "The whole people have fun and rejoice!
    The whole people have fun and rejoice! "
    (Eternal Russian folk writing)
  22. 0
    4 August 2018 11: 29
    Afraid of kickbacks-- you don’t have to do business ..., you don’t need to demonize the rollback ..., rollback is one of the pillars of the liberal economy ... you just need to legalize it ... as is done in liberal countries ... call it by its beautiful name , in short: if it’s impossible to suppress, then it’s necessary to lead, in the end, multistructure in the financial sphere has its advantages, the question is that the Power is overpowered by a persecution mania ..., (pun intended), the world will not be one ... so money, it’s better to lead this process and have dividends from it than to fight and bear the costs ...
  23. 0
    20 October 2021 19: 53

    I am not an expert on railway, but on the Internet you can find a photo of a road after several years of operation in permafrost conditions. Let's just say it's not impressive. From the conversations of suppliers working in Norilsk Nickel, where the railway between the plant and Dudinka has been in operation for a long time, I heard that trains move along it at a speed of 20-30 km / h. At higher speeds, the train may slope. Information for thought.

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