Faustpatrone (Faustpatrone) - RPG "Panzerfaust"

44
If in the first period of the Eastern campaign the German army, given the relative weakness of its own anti-tank artillery, the main emphasis was on the use of specials. shells, allowing to increase the armor-piercing effect when firing from anti-tank guns and the use of guns having a low initial speed for destruction tanksthen from mid-1942, the massive use of the Red Army KB-1 and T-34 tanks forced the Wehrmacht to begin the search for fundamentally new means for their destruction. In close combat, the German infantry with enemy tanks remained virtually face to face, since the 50-mm anti-tank guns PAK.38 and 37-mm PAK.35 / 36, German anti-tank rifles, hand grenades, and also Molotov cocktails could not hit on minimum distances even medium tanks.

Faustpatron 1, Faustpatron Small (klein), Faustpatron 30 or, later, Panzerfaust 30 was called (here 30 index is the effective firing range in meters). In the Red Army, the name Faustpatron was fixed as the cumulative designation of all German disposable anti-tank grenade launchers.


German rocket launchers with RPG "Panzerfaust" 30M in ambush. June 1944 g


Faustpatrone (Faustpatrone) - RPG "Panzerfaust"
Faustpatron small


In this regard, the German designers continued research in this direction. The main condition for the new weaponsIn addition to armor penetration of more than 150 millimeters, it was a combination of lightness and high power inherent in recoilless systems. In addition, they sought to reduce the cost of production by means of the widespread introduction of non-deficient materials and stamped-welded structures. A real breakthrough in this area was the proposal of an engineer, Dr. Heinrich Langweiler from the HASAG company (Leipzig), who worked on reactive and dynamo-reactive weapons. In the spring of 1942, Langweiler formulated a schematic diagram of a new anti-tank hand weapon that had no recoil at the time of the shot. This weapon was named Faustpatrone 1 ("Faustpatron" - fist cartridge). This name later became common to all samples of dynamo-reactive anti-tank grenade launchers (RPGs) of Germany. In addition, a new weapon for a long time called him the unofficial nickname "Gretchen." Faustpatrone 1 was one of the first in the series of so-called "miracle weapons", developed by the designers of the gunsmiths of Germany during the Second World War.

For the first time in one design, a fairly effective warhead of the cumulative 3,7 cm Stiel-Gr cumulative grenade was connected. Patr.41 and rocket engine (powder charge), placed in the barrel. The use in this weapon of ammunition having a low initial speed and a reduction in recoil to an acceptable level for the shooter allowed us to create a sample that allowed steady fire, both from the machine tool and from the hand. This one-shot grenade launcher, which is essentially a reactive anti-tank grenade, consisted of two parts (mainly manufactured by cold forming): an over-caliber cumulative grenade with a tail stabilizer and a hollow tube open to both sides (length 360 mm) containing gunpowder propellant charge. The grenade was inserted into the trunk from the front. On the trunk going trigger. Part of the powder gases during the shot at the open barrel was retracted, thus creating a forward-directed reactive force balancing recoil force. "Faustpatron" served by one person. But since when firing a beam (force) of a flame from a burning charge arose, the grenade launcher had to hold a new weapon at arm's length. This situation significantly reduced the accuracy of aiming. This design affected the accuracy of the weapon. The first version of the RPG was unsuccessful because of the shortcomings of a grenade, a short range of flight and extremely low accuracy. But despite this, the unification of low-speed cumulative ammunition in one weapon and the lack of recoil during the shot promised that this maneuverable and light infantry anti-tank weapon, which allows you to fire from your hand, cheap and easy to manufacture, can revolutionize the military, so as has great potential reserves for further improvement.



In the fall of 42 - in the winter of 43, Langweiler continued to upgrade his grenade launcher. Already in March 43, the company HASAG handed over to HWaA (Wehrmacht Arms Directorate) an improved version of the Faustpatron - a dynamically active 101-mm hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher Panzerfaust Klein 30M (“armored fist”). The designer made a modification of his grenade launcher, extending the barrel to 800 millimeters, which allowed him to take his arm. The grenade was inserted in the front. The changes were mainly made to the cumulative action of the above-caliber grenade: its caliber was reduced, the head fairing got a new shape, which was more successful, the grenade tail core was replaced with a stem (tube with a wooden tip) with elastic plumage attached to it. The plumage consisted of four folding stabilizers. The stem was threaded with the grenade body. In the body of the grenade there was a discontinuous shaped charge (a mixture of TNT and RDX in the proportion of 40 / 60%). The metal parts of the grenade were made by stamping. 33-mm barrel was a smooth-bore metal pipe. With the help of welding on the barrel fixed shooting spring push-button mechanism and sighting stand. The structure of the firing mechanism includes a tube of a percussion mechanism, a trigger button, a retractable stem with a screw, a sleeve with a primer-igniter and a return spring. The percussion mechanism was installed in two basic positions - on a battle platoon and on a safety device. A propellant charge, consisting of fine-grained smoked gun powder in a cardboard charge of a cylindrical shape, was fastened in the barrel with a screw. A projectile charge was separated from the grenade by plastic wad. Sights - rear and front viewfinder. Instead of a fly, the upper edge of the grenade shell was used. The rear scooter was a figured slot in the sighting flap, hinged to the USM case. For firing in the dark, the front sight and sight were covered with luminescent paint. In the stowed position, the flap, attached to the eye of the grenade by a check and adjacent to the barrel, served as a stop for the grenade and the percussion mechanism. In this position of the aiming bar it is impossible to cock the drummer, since the shutter-release button was closed, and, therefore, the shot was impossible. Grenade launchers were painted yellow-brown or dark green.

The overall appearance of the RPG "Panzerfaust" 30M


Grenade launchers were handed over to the troops assembled, but for firing a shot, it was necessary to first load the Panzerfaust, while loading was done just before combat use. For charging it was necessary, without removing the safety check, to turn the anti-clockwise direction of the grenade body to separate the head part from the stem of the grenade. The stem remained in the barrel of the grenade launcher. A metal cup having a bottom inertial fuse of a non-safety type and a standard detonator kl was inserted into the body pipe. ZdTg.34 Np, 10. Grenade and stabilizer connect the reverse movement. Before the shot, a safety check was removed, which was in front of the barrel. After that, the aiming bar was raised and the impact mechanism was cocked. For cocking, the stem inside the case was fed forward, while the capsule was led to the pilot hole. Then he was pulled back, turned to 90 degrees counterclockwise, removing the mechanism from the fuse. When the shutter release button was pressed, a ray of fire was transmitted from the primer-igniter to the expelling charge. The expelling charge, igniting, threw the grenade out of the barrel.

In order to make a shot, the barrel was wrapped with two hands and, tightly held under the arm, aiming and pressing the trigger was carried out. After the grenade was thrown out of the barrel, the folded stabilizer blades were opened. A jet of powder gases that burst from the open rear end of the barrel and the length of which reached 4 meters, created a danger for the shooter. In this regard, in order to avoid the rebound of the reflected flame of the shooter and other people, as well as combustible materials and ammunition, there should be no obstacles at a distance of 10 meters behind it. The warning “Warning! A strong ray of fire! ”Placed on the trunk. Thus, the use of this weapon had certain restrictions, including the prohibition of use from closed premises. At the moment of the shot, the percussion mechanism of the fuze was activated, which worked during the meeting of the head of the grenade and any obstacle. When fired, the grenade thrower almost did not sense the impact of recoil. After the shot, the launch tube was thrown away, as it was not subject to reloading. If after the drummer was cocked and the trigger was removed from the fuse, there was no need for firing, the grenade launcher could be removed from the platoon and put on the fuse. To do this, you need to lower the aiming bar to the barrel and insert the check back into the cutout at the end of the aiming bar and the eye of the grenade.

From left to right: Panzerfaust RPG grenade. 60M; The sight and impact trigger RPG "Panzerfaust" 60M; Sights (front sight on a grenade and a sight) RPN Panzerfaust 60M, painted with luminous paint for firing at night (drawings from the German 1944 manual, published)


The Panzerfaust Klein 30M grenade launchers were transported on 4 pieces in wooden boxes in a not fully equipped form, that is, without detonating devices and fuses placed in cardboard cases separately.

With a grenade launcher mass equal to 3,25 kilograms, its armor penetration on 30 meters was up to 150 millimeters. This was one of the best results for the time, which allowed the German infantry to destroy almost all types of enemy tanks. However, the short range of the grenade made it difficult for Panzerfaust Klein 30M to fire, since the grenade launcher could have perished under the tracks of the armored vehicle. As a result, a new tactic to combat armored vehicles appeared - flank fire was fired at tanks: in settlements - because of structures, in field conditions - from light shelters or trenches.

The RPN “Panzerfaust” 60M sealing box in separate packaging stores bottom inertial fuses and kl-igniters kl.zdlg.34


In August, HASAG 1943, having mastered the mass production of Klein 30M hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers, produced 8,7 thousand pieces. For the first time, Panzerfaust was successfully used in a battle on the Eastern Front on the territory of Ukraine in November 1943. By October, the production of this cheap and at the same time very effective weapon was already 200 thousand pieces. per month. The following figures indicate the success of this anti-tank weapon: in the period from January to April 1944, German infantry on the Eastern Front destroyed 520 tanks in melee combat. In this case, the share of the dynamo-reactive RPG Panzerfaust accounted for 264 units, while of the Ofenrohr RPzB.XNNX hand-held grenade launchers only 43 tanks.

Langweiler grenade launchers had a rare feature - the potential for their further improvement was very broad. The need of the army for more powerful weapons has led to the creation of a modernized 149-mm RPG Panzerfaust 30M. The grenade, whose mass was 2,4 kg, made it possible to penetrate armor with a thickness up to 200 millimeters, with the same firing range - 30 meters. At the beginning of 44, the Faustpatrons were subjected to a radical modernization. This greatly improved the fighting qualities of the grenade launcher, simplified manufacturing, and increased the range of aimed fire to 60 meters. The changes made to the Panzerfaust 149M 60 mm grenade launcher were as follows:
- diameter of the launch tube-barrel increased to 50 millimeters;
- an increase in the wall thickness (throwing tube) of the barrel increased resistance to mechanical damage during transportation and combat operations. In addition, it allowed the use of more powerful powders and also increased the weight of the propellant charge. This increased the initial speed of the grenade from 45 to 60 meters per second;
- a grenade of new construction was connected to the stem with a spring latch, and not a threaded connection. This simplified the loading of weapons and made it possible to install the front sight on the rim of a grenade, allowing more targeted fire from a grenade launcher;
- the push-button percussion mechanism of the early Faustpatrons, which was not entirely successful, was replaced with a simple lever. It installed a new primer-type igniter Zhavelo, which reliably acted in adverse conditions;
- redesigned sight. Now it was designed for three fixed firing ranges - 30, 60 and 80 meters (the first models of grenade launchers had only one fixed range of the sight);
- while maintaining armor penetration (200 millimeters at an angle of 30 degrees), a grenade of increased mass (2,8 kg) could hit armored targets at a distance of up to 80 meters. In addition, an anti-tank grenade launcher could now be used to destroy defenses;
- the mass of the upgraded grenade launcher was 3,3 kg, and the assembled grenade launcher (with a grenade) increased from 5,35 kg to 6,25 kg.

Aiming methods from Panzerfaust


As the experience of the combat use of Panzerfaust increased, the views of the Wehrmacht command on this weapon also changed. In 1943 and at the beginning of 1944, while hostilities were being conducted on the territory of the USSR with its vast territories, the effectiveness of this weapon was insufficient, since the short firing range (up to 60 meters) did not allow the RPG to be widely used in the field. In this regard, the Panzerfaust was in service only with tank destroyers, which ambushed in fortified areas, at bridges, roads, in settlements, etc. And only in the spring and summer of 1944, when the Soviet army entered the territory of densely built-up Eastern Europe, the "Faustpatrones" began to enter service with the German infantry en masse. This dramatic change in the situation was also facilitated by the deployment of large-scale production of RPGs. By the fall of 44, the German military industry was able to establish an ever-growing production of Panzerfaust. In April 1944, production of the Panzerfaust 30M reached 100 units. and Panzerfaust 60M - 200 thousand units. In May - October of the same year, their monthly output was already 400 thousand units, in November - 1,084 million units, and in December this figure was already 1,3 million units. At the same time, the consumption of Panzerfaust 30M and Panzerfaust 60M in November 1944, during the battles in Poland, Prussia and Hungary, amounted to only 209 thousand units. In January - April 45, German enterprises produced more than 2,8 million Faustpatron grenade launchers. Apart from all HASAG factories in Schlieben and Leipzig, other companies were also involved in the production of Faustpatrone. The explosives for these RPGs were produced by: Rheinische Gummi- & Celluloid- Fabrik, Buhrle & Co and Oerlikon, and Volkswagen is one of the largest automobile factories in Germany. Moreover, the need of the German troops for this weapon was so great that the guides of the Panzerfaust, which was a single-use weapon, were not thrown away after use. In combat units, their collection was organized to be sent for reloading with grenades at the factory.

In 1944-1945, Faustpatron was the main TCP of the infantry divisions, the people's grenadier divisions, and also the battalions of the Volkssturm. For example, in the fall of 1944, per kilometer of the front accounted for up to 90 anti-tank grenade launchers Panzerfaust. German infantry companies for each soldier had several grenade launchers, which allowed to significantly strengthen the anti-tank defenses and significantly increased the loss of Soviet troops in armored vehicles. A good example is the fighting on the territory of Poland, Hungary and Germany in the autumn of 44 - in the winter of 45. 26 January 1945, the Supreme Commander of the German Armed Forces A. Hitler ordered the creation of a "tank-fighter division", which were supposed to include companies scooters (cyclists), armed with Panzerfaust.

Photo and scheme of grenades


The difficulties of fighting the enemy’s tanks, which the Soviet and Anglo-American forces were fighting to combat the grenade launchers armed with Panzerfaust, again forced the HASAG engineers to upgrade the grenade launchers. In this case, the designers did not focus on the increase in armor penetration, which was 200 mm (quite sufficient for its time), but on the increase in the range of use. In November, the Wehrmacht 1944 received a new RPG model - the 149-millimeter Panzerfaust 100M. In this anti-tank grenade launcher, developers were able to increase the firing range to 100 meters.

The original feature of the Panzerfaust 100M is the presence of a container of propellant charges successively placed in the barrel with an air gap between them. This placement of charges ensured an increase in the pressure of the powder gases, which arose during the ignition of the first charge, influencing, by creating a closed volume with a second charge, an increase in the range of throwing grenades. When shooting grenades, powder gases of the second charge, moving back, balanced the system. Thus, the designers managed to achieve greater stability when shooting, which was reflected in the improvement of accuracy during the battle. Simultaneously with the increase in the range of fire, its armor penetration (up to 240 mm) increased, albeit slightly, which allowed Panzerfaust 100M to become a really serious opponent for all Allied heavy tanks at the final stage of the war.

Drawing of the educational version of the RPZ "Panzerfaust" 60M


The high effectiveness of Panzerfaust in the last months of the war significantly increased the losses of allies in armored vehicles, which led to the adoption of countermeasures - the most vulnerable places of combat vehicles were shielded, a new tactic was used to conduct joint actions by infantry and tank units. These changes have significantly reduced the damage inflicted by Hitler’s grenade launchers to armored forces. After the war, Marshal of the Soviet Union I.S. Konev, commander of the First Ukrainian Front, wrote the following about it: “... In an effort to reduce the number of tanks destroyed by faustpatrons, we introduced a simple but very effective means — they created a so-called screen around the tanks: sheet metal or sheets of tin were hung over the armor. Getting to the tank, the faustpron punched at first this insignificant obstacle, however there was a void behind it, and the grenade ran across armor having lost its reactive force. She most often ricocheted, and did not cause damage ... Why did this remedy start to apply so late? This is probably due to the fact that we practically did not encounter such a wide use of faustpatrons during street battles, and we did not take this into account in open areas. ”

But his opponent, Wehrmacht Lieutenant Colonel E. Middeldorf, spoke about this in his memoirs: “A large number of tanks, shot down with anti-tank infantry, speaks for itself ... Most of the downed tanks in the account of Panzerfaust. But “Panzerfaust”, which has a rough guide and great dispersion, gave a good result only when used at a distance of no more than 80 meters ... This fact speaks of the courage of the German soldiers, which they displayed in close combat with tanks. However, you should not overestimate the value of melee. The sharp decline in the results of the fight against tanks with the help of Faustpatrone, which has been observed since January 1945, is primarily due to the introduction by the Russians of new tactics of protection against tank destroyers. It consisted in the protection of armored vehicles during the battle by individual arrows, which moved at a distance of 100 - 200 meters from the tank. If the nature of the terrain did not give the tank destroyer favorable conditions for shelter, the melee became impossible ... This tactic was a response to increasing the effectiveness of anti-tank defense, which was achieved through the use of the new RPGs “Panzerfaust” and “Ofenror”.

A front-line officer teaches the treatment of RPN "Panzerfaust" 100 of volkssturm militias. Germany, November 29 1944 g


The last support of the regime according to the idea of ​​the leadership of the Third Reich was to be the people's militia, which is better known as Volkssturm. More than 4 million people had to get under the gun. For their equipment required a huge number of weapons, which was supposed to be easy to use and cheap to manufacture. At the same time, the weapon must be very effective, such as, for example, Panzerfaust. Under these conditions, the Wehrmacht command faced an almost insoluble problem. On the one hand, it is necessary to encourage and arm a mass of people who have not passed the drill, on the other hand, it was necessary to train them in basic knowledge in military affairs. Naturally, the question arose of how to teach the use of disposable grenade launchers if there is a shortage of them in combat units at the front. Therefore, it was necessary to urgently create an educational version of Faustpatron. 20 November 1944 of the year in all military units of the German army went together with the Chief of the HWaA Armament Service and the Inspector General of the Tank Forces on self-production (according to the attached drawings) a device that allows you to train from Panzerfaust. The training version of Panzerfaust was a barrel-pipe from the 60M grenade launcher, equipped with a special device for shooting a mock-up grenade and a "ray of fire". The device was a chamber under the idler 7,92-millimeter rifle cartridge M.ZZ, which was vertically inserted into the barrel of a grenade launcher. When fired, gunpowder gases pushed the wooden mock-up of the grenade from the barrel-pipe forward and worked on the drummer of the second blank cartridge, which was inserted into the wooden beam of the "ray of fire" that served as anti-mass for the grenade. This device has made its own, though not as significant as it was intended, contribution to the training of the Volkssturm aiming, shooting and choosing a position.

Installation scheme of an improvised anti-tank mine from the Panzerfaust RPG


An unambiguous assessment of the use of Panzerfaust’s Volkssturm units in the battles of the last period of the war was given by I.S. Konev: “The battalions of the Volkssturm, in whose ranks teenagers and the elderly prevailed, were especially abundantly supplied with the Faustpatrons. Faustpatron was one of the means that could create a sense of confidence in untrained people and physically untrained people that, only after becoming soldiers, they could do something today. It should be noted that in the majority of cases these faunters fought to the end and showed much greater stamina than the well-worn species, but the German soldiers, cracked by many years of fatigue and defeat. ”

The deterioration of the situation at the front, and the new tactics of the motorized rifle and armored forces of the enemy, which now took into account the wide use of the Wehrmacht Panzerfaust, again demanded that the Germans take measures to neutralize the Allied attempts to minimize losses in tanks and armored vehicles. Therefore, in November 1944 of the year, the HWaA department for the development of jet weapons commissioned HASAG to re-modernize the Panzerfaust design to expand the combat capabilities of the anti-tank grenade launcher. When designing this weapon, new tactical and technical requirements should be taken into account, which included:
- increase the firing range while maintaining the charge and launch tube-trunk Panzerfaust 100M;
- Saving explosives with increasing armor penetration grenades;
- the use of surrogate explosives;
- use in the manufacture of arc and spot welding;
- the possibility of using grenades, both for the destruction of armored targets, and enemy manpower.

Learning to shoot from the Faust-Changer of the Volkshturmist. Xnumx


In these tactical and technical requirements, in addition to the already established requirements to improve the combat qualities of weapons, as well as reduce the cost of their manufacture, a completely new requirement was voiced - they first formulated the concept of creating a combined cumulative fragmentation grenade (in many countries this concept was approached later by 10 - 15 years). First of all, HASAG engineers began working with a grenade. To increase the firing range, an additional jet engine was introduced into the grenade design. In spite of the fact that this decision allowed to significantly increase the throwing range, a sharp decrease in the accuracy of fire negated all the achieved results. The use of nitrocellulose powders as a propellant charge did not give a positive result either. Measures to reduce the cost of Faustpatron taken by designers, forced them to turn to light metals for the manufacture of trunks, pipes, but these works also did not give positive results. After several unsuccessful experiments, without refusing to make various improvements in his design that did not affect the very foundations of the weapon, the German engineers approached the non-traditional side to solve the problem, giving the Faustpatron a new breath. The designers proposed to make a completely new model - reusable RPG. This solved many problems related to the acute shortage of materials necessary for the production of Faustpatron in the face of the loss of a part of the raw material base and the disintegration of production ties in the Third Reich, and to some extent removed the question of increasing the production of these weapons, so necessary in defensive battles. In the first place, the grenade itself was almost completely recycled. In the new grenade, the warhead, the stabilizer and the bottom fuse were assembled into a single whole (the grenades of the former Panzerfaust consisted of two parts - the warhead and the shank with a feather). This allowed to change the principle of loading a grenade launcher. The stabilizer tube had a retainer which, when loaded, entered the recess of the grenade launcher. This ensured a firm fixation of the combat charge in a hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher and made it possible to safely discharge the weapon if the need for firing was no longer necessary. The launch tube-trunk in this form allowed multiple reloading. Thickening of the barrel walls made it possible to withstand grenade launchers up to 10 shots. The solution to the problem of increasing the firing range also turned out to be quite simple - they improved the aerodynamics of the grenade.

The new hand-held anti-tank grenade launcher, known as the Panzerfaust 150M, but better known as Splitterfaust (fragmentation fist), used a cylindrical conical grenade, with stabilizers and longitudinal grooves on the ballistic cap ensuring its steady flight. Aerodynamics also improved due to the reduction in the diameter of the grenade body from 149 millimeters (in Panzerfaust 100M) to 106 millimeters (in Panzerfaust 150М). Due to this, the maximum firing range of the Panzerfaust 150M was 300 meters, and the effective range was about 150 meters. At the same time, due to minor changes, the efficiency of the grenade has significantly increased. The grenade was equipped with a cylindrical part of the corps with a flip-up front sight, which greatly improved the ability to conduct aimed fire. A grenade wore a steel cylindrical shirt (copied from a RGD-33 hand grenade made in the USSR) with transverse cannels applied to its surface to create slaughter elements that increased the destructive effect of the fragments. This made it possible to wage a successful fight, both with the enemy’s armored vehicles and with his living strength. The new grenade retained the same armor penetration (220 -240 millimeters), which was sufficient to destroy any tanks of that time. In March, 45 of the year HASAG began production of the first installation batch of these anti-tank grenade launchers in the amount of 500 pcs. It was planned that their monthly release in the near future will reach 100 thousand pieces. However, the American troops, capturing Leipzig in mid-April, where the production of the Panzerfaust 150M was launched, stopped the last attempt by the Germans to use the so-called “miracle weapon” and thus increase the number of victims of the war.

Column of Soviet tanks EC-2 on the road in East Prussia. 1 Belarusian Front. Left on the side of the road - abandoned German grenade launchers "Panzerfaust" (Panzerfaust)


The problem of increasing the effectiveness of Panzerfaust was not only to increase the firing range and armor penetration, but also to improve the accuracy of their combat. In this regard, simultaneously with the creation of the Panzerfaust 150 PTG designers, work was carried out on the next, more powerful, Panzerfaust 250 model, the aimed range of which was 250 meters. Achieved through the use of an elongated launch tube trunk and a larger mass of expelling charge. The use of an electric nozzle instead of a lever trigger made it possible to achieve greater reliability of operation under adverse conditions, especially in the cold season. For the grenade launcher they created a new starting barrel-pipe, on which they fastened with the help of union clamps: the trigger mechanism assembled in a stamped control handle; the frame humeral emphasis made of threw; additional handle hold grenade. Shooting led from the shoulder, similar to the Panzerschreck and Ofenrohr grenade launchers. Such simple adaptations significantly improved the weapon's handling when fired, which, in turn, increased the accuracy of shooting from these grenade launchers. However, the experiments with Panzerfaust 250М, like other similar works, were not brought to the end due to the surrender of Germany.

In January, 1945, Reichsforschungsrat (RFR), the Reich Research Council, and WASAG made another attempt to improve this weapon. The new grenade launcher, known as the Verbesserte Pz.Faust ("improved Panzerfaust"), had a 160-mm grenade with an improved fuse. Already in February, Heber was planning to set up its production in the city of Osterode, but the Allies' rapid offensive prevented the implementation of these plans. However, in the same January of 45, a number of new designs of grenade launchers appeared, including those that can be safely considered fantastic: the Grosse Panzerfaust project - a barrel-pipe from 250M and a new enlarged garnet with armor penetration up to 400 millimeters; Brandfaust - an incendiary Pz.Brandgranate grenade was used; Gasfaust - pomegranate filled with toxic substances; Flammfaust is a disposable flamethrower. The most promising project was the Schrappnell-Faust anti-personnel grenade launcher, with a fragmentation grenade and a range of fire up to 400 meters. The charge was undermined by a mechanical remote fuse at a height of 2 - 3 meters, contributing to the formation of a continuous zone of destruction of enemy forces at a distance of 20 meters. The weight of this weapon was about 8 kilogram. By the spring of 45, a batch of these grenade launchers in the amount of 100 pcs was sent to the military trials. But Schrappnell-Faust was not brought to mass production.

The British tanker from the 11 armored division and the captured German "tank destroyers" from the Hitler Youth. The tankman is armed with a STEN Mk.III submachine gun, with a German assault rifle StG 44 “confiscated” from teenagers on his shoulder. In the foreground and to the right are bicycles with pairs of “faustpatrons” fixed on them (Panzerfaust). Similar cycling units of tank destroyers were widely used in the last months of the war in Germany.


This weapon inflicted huge losses on the Soviet forces in the capital of the Reich, where the Panzerfaust RPGs were in service with all German units and subunits of the Wehrmacht, Volkssturm and SS defending Berlin.

Later I.S. Konev, who was directly involved in these bloody battles, wrote in his memoirs: “... The Germans were preparing Berlin for a tough and solid defense, which was designed for a long time. The defense was built on a system of high fire, resistance nodes and strong points. The closer to the center of Berlin, the denser the defense became. Massive stone buildings with a large thickness of walls, adapted to the long siege. Several fortified buildings thus formed a knot of resistance. To cover the flanks, strong barricades were erected up to 4 meters thick, which were also powerful anti-tank obstacles ... Corner buildings of which could be fired with special targeting and flank fire strengthened especially carefully ... In addition, the German defense units were saturated with a huge number of fausttron cartridges that street fighting became a formidable anti-tank weapon ... Also, Berlin had a lot of anti-aircraft artillery, which during street fighting played a significant role in the VET. If you do not take into account faustprony, then we suffered most of the losses among tanks and self-propelled guns in Berlin from the enemy’s anti-aircraft installations. During the battle for Berlin, the Nazis destroyed and destroyed more than 800 our self-propelled guns and tanks. In this case, the bulk of the losses fell on the battles in the city.

If to evaluate RPGs according to the main criterion “cost-effectiveness”, then Panzerfaust occupies a leading place in the class of infantry weapons of the Second World War. German scientist Hans Curl, a specialist in the military industry, gave these grenade launchers the most accurate assessment: “Perhaps the only weapon in Germany that met the requirements of maximum efficiency with minimal expenditure of funds and forces for its production was Faustpatron.” German rocket launchers were not only the most massive type of Wehrmacht weapons, but the cheapest. 8 man-hours were spent on producing the Faustpatron, and the cost price ranged from 25 to 30 marks, depending on the modification. According to the data compiled by the German Central Statistical Office on the instructions of the Ministry of Armament in 1945 in the period from August 43 to March 45, the total release of Faustpatrons was 9,21 million, of which Panzerfaust Klein 2,077М and 30М were 30 million and 7,133 million 60M and 100M. According to the OKN data on 1 in March 45, in the German armed forces, the troops numbered 3,018 million. Dynamo RPG Panzerfaust of various models, and 271 thousand more - in the arsenals.

Dismantled, prepared for undermining by sappers of the US Army, German Panzerfaust anti-tank grenade launchers, modifications M60 and M100. (The 60 and 100 indices indicate the effective range in meters). As an explosive (on top), two hundred grams TNT bollards (TNT 1 / 2 pound block) coiled up between themselves are used.


The effectiveness of the use of these weapons is indicated by the numbers of losses suffered by the Soviet tank armies in the battles at the last stage of the Second World War. For example, in April, 1945 was lost from Panzerfaust in battles on the approaches to Berlin from 11,3 to 30% of tanks, and in time for street battles in the city itself to 45 - 50%.

In general, Panzerfaust during World War II fully justified all the hopes placed on them by the command of the German armed forces. The crisis of anti-tank weapons for infantry was the reason that gunsmith designers found a fundamentally new solution to this problem - they created a complex of anti-tank weapons: RPGs and cumulative grenades. German designers thus opened a new direction in the development of weapons. Extremely effective, but at the same time cheap and simple weapons, such as grenade launchers, allowed German infantrymen to fight on equal terms with any enemy tanks in a modern, maneuverable battlefield. Although the Germans themselves, including Erich Schneider, Lieutenant-General of the Wehrmacht, believed that: "During the war, the infantry of all countries was confronted with anti-tank weapons ... However, there was no anti-tank weapon that would meet all the requirements of the infantry . The infantry needs a single person to use the anti-tank weapon, so that it can be used to destroy a tank from the 150 distance, and even better from the 400 subway. ”

But this statement can be attributed to Panzerfaust with a very big stretch, since it was they who had all the opportunities for their further improvement, and the latest models of this weapon - Panzerfaust 150 and 250М - met the requirements. It was they who became the prototypes for the creation in many countries, including the Soviet Union, of the newest type of weapons for infantry - hand-held anti-tank grenade launchers.

Based on the materials of the Third Reich Infantry Weapon Part VI. Wehrmacht Jet Weapons "The Weapon" special issue for 11 / 12 2003 of the year


Melee with tanks

"Close battle with tanks" - an action movie from the command of the Wehrmacht. (Hollywood is resting). Cast - the brave Aryan guys, stupid Russian tank crews and their useless tanks. Year of manufacture - 1943. The purpose of this masterpiece is to demonstrate to housewives and boys from the Hitler Youth methods of destroying Russian tanks and their crews. Everything looks easy, understandable, simple and affordable.

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    1. +4
      17 May 2012 08: 53
      What can I say ... for its time, an outstanding thing ... spoiled a lot of blood ... plus article ...
      1. father tudy-syudy
        -2
        17 May 2012 11: 47
        A wonderful thing in defense, especially in urban conditions. She chopped down Soviet tanks together with tankers "at once"! Another example of German engineering
        1. 755962
          +6
          17 May 2012 15: 33
          Quote: Father Tudy-syudy
          Wonderful little thing

          It’s even useless to argue. The Germans set our tanks on fire. It should be noted. that the design of the Panzerfaust 150M experimental grenade launcher had a significant impact on the design of the first Soviet post-war RPG-2 anti-tank grenade launcher.
    2. Sergio
      -1
      17 May 2012 09: 13
      If you say ... there is nothing special ... better at all ... not to write anything ... minus you ...
    3. +6
      17 May 2012 09: 27
      A significant weapon of the end of World War II. It entailed a change in the tactics of using BTT. Unfortunately, not all parts were able to react quickly.
      1. +6
        17 May 2012 13: 14
        And not only tanks of the USSR were dispensed artisanously. Although the cumulative shells have been used since 1942, only the Germans equipped their BTT with factory-made sets of screens.
        1. Kibb
          +1
          17 May 2012 16: 06
          Quote: Kars
          only the Germans equipped their BTT with factory-made sets of screens.

          Except 68 "Sormovsky" T-34
          1. +2
            17 May 2012 18: 58
            Quote: Kibb
            Except 68 "Sormovsky" T-34

            I didn’t hear. The stream did not come across?
            1. Kibb
              +1
              17 May 2012 19: 26
              Svirin has a photo of only the layout, on the network he met only pictures and models which causes some doubts, but he met the mention of these tanks several times with different authors and with different numbers, hoping that you could clarify the issue a little
              http://tank-t-34.blogspot.com/2010/10/34.html
              1. +2
                17 May 2012 19: 35
                Quote: Kibb
                http://tank-t-34.blogspot.com/2010/10/34.html

                looked. I’m not quite talking about ---- Yes T-34 tried, and screened many times. But this is an increase in the thickness of the armor, not posted reservation - and has no special relation to anti-cumulative means of protection. This is a topic for another discussion. Although I think we have the same information.

                By the way, this is one of my favorite photos of the German four. A complete set of anti-cumulative screens and a hitch from the tracks, and not only spare ones.
                1. Kibb
                  +1
                  17 May 2012 19: 42
                  Quote: Kars
                  exploded booking

                  Actually, I was talking about this http://alternathistory.org.ua/ekranirovannyi-t-34-sssr-1943-g
                  1. +2
                    17 May 2012 19: 54
                    Anyway, not about that ---- the Germans have screens with a thickness of 5-7 mm, with a gap of tens of centimeters.
                    But the capital overbooking itself - I like the forehead of a triple with a spaced reservation impresses - withstood the hit of 122 mm gun IS-2 / ISU 122
                    1. Kibb
                      +1
                      17 May 2012 20: 18
                      Quote: Kars
                      hit 122 mm gun IS-2 / ISU 122

                      Kamorny yes, did not take. Although I think perforated
                      Quote: Kars
                      Anyway, not about that ---- the Germans have screens 5-7 mm thick, with a gap of tens of centimeters

                      Well, this is already someone in sho much. and so they did just to protect against cumulative
                      According to Baryatinsky, Zalogi and Kolomiyets were shot down by ordinary shells from PaK40
    4. Dust
      +4
      17 May 2012 09: 33
      Scary weapon!
      Simple and highly efficient, especially for its time ...
    5. +7
      17 May 2012 09: 41
      Interesting article. I learned a lot of interesting new things. For its time, the Faustpatron is really a necessary and effective weapon. It is only a pity that the two great continental states were pulled into a meat grinder to the joy of the United States and England.
    6. Tirpitz
      0
      17 May 2012 09: 49
      2 tank armies were destroyed only in Berlin, not counting the tanks that stormed the Zeelow Heights. It was with the use of such weapons that the question arose about the effectiveness of the use of tanks in the city.
      1. +6
        17 May 2012 10: 12
        Quote: Tirpitz

        2 tank armies were destroyed only in Berlin,


        Do not misinterpret this nonsense.
        Quote: Tirpitz
        It was with the use of such weapons that the question arose about the effectiveness of the use of tanks in the city.


        This question arose after Spain 1936
        1. Tirpitz
          -3
          17 May 2012 12: 18
          This data was taken from the book "Shadow of Victory"
          1. +5
            17 May 2012 12: 59
            Quote: Tirpitz
            the book "Shadow of Victory"


            These are your personal problems, and Rezun
      2. +1
        17 May 2012 10: 55
        Grandfather Kovpak used to say: "Nowhere do they cheat like in the hunt and in the war." lol
        Quote: Tirpitz
        2 tank armies were destroyed only in Berlin, not counting the tanks that stormed the Zeelow Heights.
    7. schta
      +3
      17 May 2012 10: 52
      The effectiveness of panzerfaust consists only in its penny value and simplicity. In a short time, the Nazis stamped them a little over 8 million!

      A bazooka or panzer shrek is much more serious and effective.

      In the photo from the IS-2, the host machine does not have a DShK anti-aircraft machine gun. About this very DShK, oooooochen often saved the life of the crew in Berlin, revealing places of shelter for Volksturm soldiers trying to destroy the tank.
    8. +1
      17 May 2012 12: 11
      "For the first time in one design, they combined a sufficiently effective warhead of a cumulative 3,7 cm Stiel-Gr. Patr.41 barrel grenade and a rocket engine (powder charge) placed in the bore." simple and ingenious ... "All thoughts that have huge consequences are always simple."

    9. Tirpitz
      +5
      17 May 2012 12: 35
      The losses of tank armies in the battles for the city can be estimated as moderate, especially in comparison with battles in the open area against tanks and anti-tank artillery. So, the 2nd Guards Tank Army of Bogdanov lost about 70 tanks from the Faustpatrons in battles for the city. At the same time, she acted in isolation from the combined arms armies, relying only on her motorized infantry. The share of tanks knocked out by the “Faustniks” in other armies was less. In total, during the street battles in Berlin from April 22 to May 2, Bogdanov’s army irretrievably lost 104 tanks and self-propelled guns (16% of the number of combat vehicles at the beginning of the operation). During the street battles, the 1st Guards Tank Army of Katukov also irretrievably lost 104 armored units (15% of combat vehicles that were in service by the beginning of the operation). The 3rd Guards Tank Army Rybalko in Berlin itself from April 23 to May 2 irretrievably lost 99 tanks and 15 self-propelled guns (23%). The total losses of the Red Army from the Faustpatrons in Berlin can be estimated at 200–250 tanks and self-propelled guns out of nearly 1800 lost during the operation as a whole. In a word, there is no reason to say that the Soviet tank armies were burned by the “Faustians” in Berlin. Author: Alexei Isaev - Ph.D. in History, author of many books on the history of the Great Patriotic War

      I take my words back to 2 armies. feel
      1. +4
        17 May 2012 13: 01
        Quote: Tirpitz
        SPGs from almost 1800 lost for the operation as a whole.

        I hope that under the whole operation no one understands only the STORM of Berlin?
    10. Hauptmannzimermann
      +2
      17 May 2012 13: 28
      Dear Tirpitz. I found other information: "The 2nd Guards Army alone lost 204 tanks in a week of fighting in Berlin. Half of them were hit by faust cartridges." Source-Military chronicle series "Armored Museum" issue 9. AGONY REIKH. With respect.
      1. Tirpitz
        +1
        17 May 2012 13: 40
        Well, the information is almost the same. You have 204 tanks indicated half of the Faustpatrons (102). I have 70 tanks from the Faustpatrons. The truth is somewhere near. wink
    11. Kostyan
      -2
      17 May 2012 13: 30
      and our plebeians did not understand the meaning of these weapons ...... idiot as always ... and yes .. that's right ... 2 tank armies laid on Zeelow and Berlin ... this is finally the height of idiocy and insanity .. . neglect of the commanders of the commanders to the gray soldier's cattle ...... however, and so in the army .....
      1. Tirpitz
        +2
        17 May 2012 13: 41
        Why didn’t they understand this? RPGs began to develop.
        1. Kostyan
          -3
          17 May 2012 13: 43
          they didn’t understand ... or they used their chances with 43 .. and our dumbheads only scratched turnips in the 50s .....
          1. 0
            23 October 2020 02: 55
            You're a complete stupid person and degenerate. It looks like you don't have any brains at all.
      2. 0
        17 May 2012 13: 57
        Well, don’t tell us rubbish, we actively used this weapon, the Americans supplied bazookas .... while the Germans borrowed a lot of technical solutions from us ... well, in the article .. The cylindrical part of the grenade’s body was equipped with a reclining front sight, which greatly improved the ability to aim fire. A steel cylindrical shirt was worn on the body of the grenade (it was copied from a hand grenade RGD-33 made in the USSR). You can recall the appearance of the panthers;), Nebelwerfer, FOG and anti-tank hedgehogs ...
        1. +3
          17 May 2012 14: 11
          Quote: viruskvartirus
          Nebelwerfer

          The Nebelwerfer chemical rocket mortar was built independently by the Germans and used a different stabilization method. To .. Katyusham. he has no relationship.

          As for the panthers, one can also argue --- a very similar version was rejected before the pilot construction stage.
          1. 0
            17 May 2012 14: 26
            I admit, but ... "the myth is connected with the fact that the" Nebelwerfer "is a copy of the" Katyusha "and appeared in 1942 in response to the appearance of multiple launch rocket systems. This is not so - the" Nebelwerfer "began to be developed in 1928 and was first adopted on armament in the form of heavy 280-mm "Wurfrahmen", which were originally a wooden frame for 6 missiles of 280 mm caliber, and later a frame made of iron and adopted for service in 1940. In 1940, the prototype "Nebelwerfer" was also adopted, but only under gas jet mines, and in the middle of 1940 under high-explosive jet mines.It was used first against France, then on the island of Crete together with recoilless guns, at the beginning of the campaign on the Soviet front it was used from the first days of the war under the cover of heavy guns. on the territory of the USSR on June 22, 1941, during the assault on the Brest Fortress, this was a month earlier than the first use of the Katyusha near Orsha of the same year. By order of Himmler, the engineers of the Czech Zbroevka enterprise did create an analogue of the Soviet rocket projectile RS-82, but this was done deliberately later. The German “analogue” of the RS-82 surpassed the original in both the accuracy of the shot (the Czechs effortlessly got rid of the eccentricity of the thrust caused by the uneven combustion of the powder checker by twisting the projectile stabilizer, forcing the rocket to rotate around its axis), and in terms of the weight of the warhead load. The rotation speed compared to turbojet mines was very low, but this disadvantage was completely eliminated). Thus, "Himmler's Organs" were not an exact copy of Stalin's Organs. It was a much more sophisticated system focused on production with a very high culture. "
            1. +3
              17 May 2012 18: 57
              Quote: viruskvartirus
              Himmler’s Organs


              but they are not Nebelwerfer, tell me about them immediately the question would not have arisen.
              Quote: viruskvartirus
              acryc stabilizer projectile causing the rocket to rotate around its axis

              Ours also used this method, but I don’t know whether they copied it, or we thought of it ourselves.
              1. +2
                17 May 2012 19: 20
                Interesting ... "The Katyusha rocket mine weighs 45 kg, of which 22 kg is explosive (TNT), that is, twice as weak in high-explosive action as Nebelwerfer. It is worth considering that the fuel in Soviet-style rocket mines is designed for a maximum of 5 seconds ( more often 3,2), and in a German mine for 10 seconds and when a Soviet mine falls, only the warhead explodes - while in a German mine, due to the design features, the remnants of the fuel are also undermined due to the fundamental feature of detonation of Katyusha rockets (counter detonation (when the explosive is detonated from two sides, that is, front and rear, and when two detonation waves meet, they create much higher values ​​of gas pressure), the fragments had a much higher initial velocity and were very hot. Therefore, the Katyusha RS had such a high an incendiary effect (the fragments sometimes reached a temperature of 800 ° C) and a very high traumatic effect (according to eyewitnesses who fell under the fire of the "Katyusha" the fragments, after entering the human body, continued to "burn" the tissue for up to half a minute). Until the end of the war, German engineers did not manage to achieve this. In addition, a German mortar rocket mine was detonated after it was buried in the ground, as a result of which a significant part of the fragments went into the ground (for the RS-132, due to the nose sensitive fuse, the epicenter of the explosion was actually above or at ground level). Quite often the Germans were the first to explode the jet engine buried in the ground, it exploded, throwing up the tail container of the warhead and scattering its blazing remains around in a cloud. "- Glory to our gunsmiths chemists ...
                1. 8 company
                  0
                  17 May 2012 19: 42
                  Quote: viruskvartirus
                  Glory to our weapons chemists ...


                  You are right, the Germans really wanted to create such a chemical mixture, but could not. Somewhere I read that part of the raw material for her was some kind of animal fat, and in huge quantities. So I had to eat, but the Germans were burned qualitatively winked
                  1. +2
                    17 May 2012 20: 43
                    THE FAMOUS KATYUSHA ...

                    (rne.ru)

                    When in July of 1941, Captain Flerov’s battery fired a volley of 112 incendiary rockets at the Orsha railway junction, the Germans were horrified - where the shells fell, everything burned to the ground. The Hitlerites believed that the Russians had a multi-barreled flamethrower automatic gun firing with an electric charge. For installations BM-13, which we gave the affectionate nickname "Katyusha", intensified hunting began. The command of the Red Army took all possible security measures. At the slightest threat of direct contact with German troops, the installations were destroyed at all costs - and the calculations were responsible for this head. Nevertheless, several dozen Katyushas, ​​together with the ammunition, fell into the hands of the enemy. However, although the mysterious weapon was declassified, nothing of the kind appeared during the war at the Wehrmacht. Why?

                    The correspondent of Truda asked Yury Velichko, the former chief engineer of the Soyuzkhimpromproekt Institute, laureate of the USSR State Prize, who, by the nature of his activity, had a chance to produce charges for Katyushas, ​​answered this question. Yuri Velichko is a front-line soldier. Partisan in the Bryansk region. Then he went to the West with parts of the First Belorussian Front. For the first time I saw rocket artillery at work in the 1943 near Gomel. Then he did not think that his whole future life would be tightly connected with this formidable miracle weapon with such a gentle name "Katyusha".

                    - Yuri Alexandrovich, I read about how German experts perplexed the composition of the powder charge of rockets - they did not encounter anything like that, the explosive mixture could not even be called gunpowder.

                    - The thing is this. Mass production of special ballistic powder for Katyushas was created at the Petrovsky plant in Ukraine. With his loss, the Katyushas were virtually left with no branded charges. Serial production of the installations themselves was already in full swing by that time, but there was nothing to shoot. The situation is critical. In his memoirs relating to this period, Marshal of the Soviet Union Georgy Zhukov wrote that due to the lack of ammunition for rocket artillery, it had to be partially sent to the rear. Stalin gave the command to immediately organize the production of missile charges at any enterprises, by any means. We chose one of the Moscow research institutes and the Kazan powder factory - a special technical bureau was created here - OTK 40. Specialists worked day and night, conducted a lot of tests, but they could not get the desired product on equipment designed for pyroxylin powders. In general, it turned out to be a surrogate. Range, of course, decreased, more frequent cases of ruptures of rocket engine chambers. It was with this infernal mixture that the Katyusha shells began.

                    - You want to say that it was these ersatz charges that came to the Germans?

                    - Probably. By itself, the "native" gunpowder for the Katyushas was of the highest quality - there were no analogues in the world. Moreover, phosphorus was added to the shells that Flerov’s battery shot - the burning effect was enormous ... And at that time in Perm the production of ballistic gunpowders was urgently created on the basis of the Petrovsky plant evacuated from Ukraine, but it was clear that, despite all efforts, to establish in the near future release in the right volumes will not succeed. And then Stalin decided to turn to the Americans for help. True, they did not have their own base for obtaining such powders - they had to hand them our documentation, equipment drawings, and formulations. But I must say that gunpowder for Katyusha, which our remarkable chemist Alexander Bakayev had developed in Leningrad in the prewar years, was unique in its characteristics.

                    The mission was entrusted to a major specialist in this field, Major General S. Frankfurt. Here is what he told me after the war: “First, a two-year term was negotiated. But during the negotiations I asked the representatives of the American side: “Is it possible for one and a half?” - they consulted, made calculations. "It is possible, but it will cost more." Mindful of Stalin’s order - at any cost, I say: “And in a year?” - “There are no problems, only the price will be completely different.” On that and put an end to. After a couple of months, I ask you to show me the construction site.

                    Arrived, and there, an honest mother, overgrown with weeds wasteland!

                    - “When will you begin assembling the enclosures?”
                    “And we are not going to build them: we will put up powerful power substations, put machines on the foundations, and begin to produce products.”
                    - "And the temperature, waterproofing!"
                    - “We will cover the units with tarpaulin, we will supply warm air. Everything is OK!"

                    “Americans are Americans, they immediately realized that the order is temporary, why build capital facilities?”

                    - And what, did the partners in the anti-Hitler coalition fail?

                    - Everything was done as agreed. But, when the Perm plant worked to its fullest, deliveries were noticeably reduced. This order was carried out in an atmosphere of such strict secrecy that even many years after the war I had to explain to the appropriate authorities how the leakage of powder technology “over the hill” became possible ...

                    - Well, if the Germans fell into the hands of shells with American or Permian drafts, would they be able to copy them?

                    “I don't think so.” Purely mechanically, without its own research and production base, proven technology, numerous tests, “repetition” of this powder was not possible. The installation itself, the guides, the warhead - please, there is nothing super complicated. But as for the “stuffing” of rocket charges - everything is not so simple ... Moreover, throughout the war, our designers continued to improve rocket weapons, trying to make them as convenient to use as possible. Already in the summer of the 42, powerful M-20 turbojet shells were used - they were launched from the upper "slides" and could even destroy reinforced concrete fortifications. In parallel with the field mobile “Katyushas”, individual means of defeating the enemy in street battles were produced - these “Katyusha” fighters, one might say, carried on their hands: the factory packaging corners served as guides for the projectile — it was enough to put the M-31 out the window and aim it at the target and set fire to the fuse. During the assault on Berlin, these hand shells proved to be very effective in duels with faust chamber.

                    Incidentally, rockets were successfully used by our pilots in the battles at Khalkhin Gol. Air-to-air missiles, when hit in an airplane, turned it to dust. The Japanese then were also in shock - from the downed plane there were not even debris left.

                    When you read about ballistic, it seems like nothing complicated, but you’re .... and about the charge itself, my modest chemistry knowledge says that such a quick heating of the shell can be obtained ... by making it part of the explosive charge of tobish using metal combustion ... and here with the help of phosphorus is unlikely ... well, plus the detonator is the most important.
                    1. +1
                      18 May 2012 21: 37
                      Still interesting is such a memory.

                      Seventeen Shermans of the 45 mechanized brigade under the command of Major Troshin were ordered to secretly approach the city of Mogilev-Podolsky and cut off the enemy’s escape route beyond the Dniester River.

                      The tanks of Lieutenant Yevgeny Shapkin and Junior Lieutenant Yuri Orekhov, being side guarded, approached the city along a long ravine with sloping slopes, with difficulty moving along the muddy, viscous soil. At one of the turns of the log, Shapkin’s tank was stuck. The paratroopers immediately dismounted and began to advance in order to take up positions and cover tanks from both ends of the ravine. Orekhov’s car approached Shapkin’s “Sherman” in trouble, and assistants to the drivers quickly threw towing cables onto the hooks. Yuri, standing in front of his "Emcha", with his hands gave commands to the driver. Towing has begun. Suddenly, the paratroopers, ascending to the left crest of the ravine, shouted: “The Germans!” And immediately opened automatic fire, retreating to their tanks.

                      Crews instantly took up combat positions. Managed to jump into the towers "Emcha" and the ran up tank paratroopers of the left guard group. And soon, about a hundred and fifty German soldiers and officers approached the “bound” tanks to throw a grenade. It was too late to shoot at them ... After a second, the Nazis, like ants, stuck around the Sherman. They covered the cracks with mud, covered the aiming holes in the tower with black soil, completely blinding the crew. We knocked on hatches, tried to open them with bayonets of rifles. And they all bawled: “Rus, kaput! Give in! ”

                      The right guard group, firing back, began to retreat to the highway. Having lost two people killed and three wounded, with great difficulty she still managed to reach the highway. Fortunately, here the soldiers saw two Katyushas approaching combat vehicles. Their commander, guard junior lieutenant Ivan Krivtsov, after listening to the story of the machine gunners, did not hesitate, deciding to fire a volley at the enemy who was clinging to tanks. Nothing else could be done. Overwhelming superiority was on the side of the enemy, and procrastination threatened the death of tankers. "Katyusha" front wheels quickly went down into the ditch and gave a direct salvo volley. Bright fiery arrows with hissing and whistling rushed into the hollow. After a moment, a blinding flame danced around the Emch. When the smoke from the rocket explosions dispersed, the tanks stood, at first glance, unharmed, only the hulls and towers were covered with thick soot. Tankers fired on the surviving fascists, who had scattered in different directions. At this time, the rear units of the 233 Tank Brigade approached. In a short attack, the security soldiers dispersed the Germans, capturing about forty prisoners.

                      ... "Emchists" appeared in the opened hatches of the freed tanks. Fighters ran up to them. “How do you feel after such a fiery“ font ”?” They asked excitedly. Shapkin just spread his hands, then pointed to his ears and, after a pause, said: “One hundred bells ringing in the head. I do not advise any of you to fall under this treatment. Even hiding in the armor of a tank. ”

                      Ivan Krivtsov came up. Apologized for ... blow on his own. There was no other way out in this dangerous situation. Eugene Shapkin hugged and kissed an artillery officer. “Thank you, buddy, for your help!” A little uneasy from your work, but what can you do. Anything can happen in a war. ”

                      1. 0
                        20 May 2012 18: 59
                        Doubtful story ... everything described takes a lot of time and after 150 infantrymen approached "to throw a grenade" I can almost say for sure that the crew is dead ... considering that the infantry then had a fair amount of experience fighting tanks. Alternatively, just put thick checkers on the hatches and blow them up, or blow up the hatches with hand grenades or set them on fire from a flamethrower.
                2. +1
                  17 May 2012 19: 43
                  Yes, there are many different rumors that I have not heard about burning up to half a minute before.
                  I think that the effect is that from ours that from their rocket artillery was devastating.
                  1. -1
                    18 May 2012 10: 35
                    Unlike the German Nebelwerfer, it is a low-precision arena weapon with a large spread of shells in the area. As a result, accurate strikes, like the Nebelwerfer, were pointless to strike. When the explosive charge was twice less than that of the Nebelwerfer rocket, the damaging effect on unarmored equipment and manpower was much stronger than that of the Nebelwerfer. This was achieved by increasing the gas pressure of the explosion due to the oncoming movement of detonation. Explosion was detonated from two sides (the detonator was only slightly shorter than the length of the cavity for the explosive) and when two detonation waves met, the gas pressure of the explosion at the meeting point increased sharply, as a result of which the fragments of the shell had much greater acceleration, were heated to 600 — 800 ° C and had a good incendiary effect. In addition to the hull, a part of the rocket chamber bursting hot from the powder that was burning inside was also bursting, this increased the fragmentation effect by 1,5-2 times in comparison with artillery shells of a similar caliber. That is why the legend of the "termite charge" in the Katyusha ammunition arose. A “termite” charge was tested in Leningrad in the spring of 42, but it turned out to be redundant - after a volley of “Katyusha” everything was burning. (from the collection "Katyusha Guard" "). The combined use of dozens of missiles at the same time also created the interference of blast waves, which further enhanced the damaging effect.
              2. Kibb
                -1
                17 May 2012 22: 46
                Quote: Kars
                but I don’t know, they copied, or they thought of it themselves

                Copy from ChZ, but the solution itself is not new
                1. -1
                  18 May 2012 09: 23
                  "Our designers are no worse than German ones, and considered the option of creating rotating shells from the very beginning (in the 30s), but the range turned out to be very childish, the warriors were indignant, and therefore decided to make them feathered, relying on accuracy."
    12. Hauptmannzimermann
      -1
      17 May 2012 13: 42
      Some sources indicate a large shortage in the infantry during the Berlin operation, probably these are the main reasons for such losses of armored vehicles, there were cases when fighters stood out from the tank crews to cover their tanks. But despite everything, the assault on Berlin is an outstanding operation.
    13. SectoR
      0
      17 May 2012 16: 35
      Quote: Tirpitz
      2 tank armies were destroyed only in Berlin. It was with the use of such weapons


      Rave. The high losses from the Faustpatrons are only due to the fact that at the end of the war the Germans had nothing more to defend, which is why there are high numbers on them. And losses are considered moderate.


      The Soviet troops have already accumulated sufficient experience in countering the "faustists" for the effective use of armored vehicles in the city. Faust cartridges are still not RPG-7s, and their effective firing range was only 30 meters. Often our tanks just stood up a hundred meters from the building where the "faustists" had settled and shot him point-blank. As a result, in absolute terms, their losses were relatively small. (from another article)
    14. +2
      17 May 2012 16: 56
      Faustpatron is an iconic weapon, the founder of a new class of infantry weapons. The article is interesting. Even if the figures for the loss of armored vehicles are not accurate, but there is no doubt about the effectiveness of panzerfausts.
    15. 8 company
      0
      17 May 2012 19: 33
      Our cumulative gunman Kurchevsky was shot in 1937, and if we had been allowed to work normally, maybe we would have created our own RPGs earlier and burned German tanks already in 1941. He already created non-recoil vehicles, but they were recognized as “sabotage”.
      1. +2
        17 May 2012 19: 49
        Quote: Company 8
        Our cumulist Kurchevsky was shot

        Accurately cumulative? And not recoilless?
        Quote: Company 8
        He had already created "non-rollbacks", but they were recognized as "sabotage"

        and rightly recognized, it brought him a bit --- I didn’t bring a single one normally, but got to the caliber in 12 inches. And all his samples that got into the troops turned out to be rubbish.
        1. 8 company
          -1
          17 May 2012 21: 04
          Quote: Kars
          and rightly recognized, it brought him a bit --- I didn’t bring a single one normally, but got to the caliber in 12 inches. And all his samples that got into the troops turned out to be rubbish.


          Wow, and you, apparently, of those who always perform complex engineering and technical tasks efficiently, accurately and on time, without alterations and intermediate samples! That is why you have a license to shoot those designers who are not so successful?
          1. +1
            17 May 2012 22: 19
            Quote: Company 8
            That is why you have a license to shoot those designers who are not so successful?


            Why do I need it? These were the NKVD.

            And so Kurchevsky and Tukhachevsky regularly burned folk money without any result.
            And yes, I bring the task to ... signature .. on the acceptance certificate or order.

            And according to Kurchevsky Shirokorad described everything perfectly, can you dispute it?
          2. Insurgent
            0
            19 May 2012 13: 07
            Yes, and an automatic taubin gronotomet could have also shot the designer
    16. 8 company
      +1
      17 May 2012 23: 29
      Quote: Kars
      And according to Kurchevsky Shirokorad described everything perfectly, can you dispute it?


      To argue that the need for the physical destruction of specialists in defense industry? I do not know in world history another ruler, except for Stalin, under which specialists from various fields, including defense, would have been purposefully destroyed. And you and Shirokorad can repeat at least a million times: Kurchchevsky was shot correctly, and others are also not in vain, but the idiocy of such a policy will not cease to be idiocy. fool
    17. +2
      17 May 2012 23: 42
      Quote: Company 8
      To argue that the need for the physical destruction of specialists in defense industry?


      The fact that Kurchevsky was a PROJECTEr, and dullly ditched the people's money, and
      almost ruined the real artillery. For which ordinary soldiers were BLOOD.

      In total, in 1931 – 1935. factories produced over 5000 land, sea and aviation guns of Kurchchevsky, that is, from 30 to 50% of the number ordered. Military envoys received from the industry no more than 2000 guns, and only about 1000 fell into the troops. However, the tools that entered the service were quickly written off or transferred to the training category. By November 1 1936, the army had 563 Kurchevsky guns (BOD, SPK and RK), and in the fleet there were several dozen 76-mm CPC boat guns.

      As a result, by the 22 of June 1941, there were not a single Kurchevsky gun in the troops. And this despite the fact that before the war, our gunners tried to save everything that could be. For example, the fortified areas were armed with hundreds of guns of the 1877 type.

      What happened? All of Kurchevsky’s guns, in fact, were prototype models. None of them would have passed military tests if they had been presented with the same requirements as for classical guns. But because of the pressure from above on the defects, the DRPs at the polygons looked through their fingers. The most honest paints in the test reports recorded a bunch of cardinal flaws, and in the end they wrote a positive review - "Everything is fine, a beautiful marquise."

      The paper tiger of Tukhachevsky and Kurchevsky cost the country dearly. The government could not honestly tell the people about such a grandiose scam, as this would be a serious compromising evidence of the Soviet system. Therefore, Kurchevsky was arrested and charged with the fact that he and 1933 G. on the instructions of Tukhachevsky created unpromising weapons. During the investigation, Kurchevsky admitted this.

      Almost simultaneously with Kurchevsky, Tukhachevsky, Pavlunovsky and almost all the leadership of the Red Army Art Directorate, led by comcor Efimov, were arrested. And even earlier, February 18 1937, died or was shot dead by the People's Commissar of Heavy Industry Sergo Ordzhonikidze. Naturally, this whole company was not arrested at all for Kurchevsky’s adventure, but all of them are personally responsible for what happened.

      A lot has been written about the events of 1937 since 1956, but, alas, these were all assumptions. In my opinion, it is most likely that Stalin decided to remove the naughty and incompetent military leadership, there could also be a military conspiracy. [60] But I am writing a documentary study and do not want to touch on issues for which I do not have reliable data.

      It is only worth noting that our authorities are not in vain hiding the archives of the NKVD for 1936 – 1939. The excuses that this is being done for the sake of the process participants themselves and their families are ridiculous. Victims, executioners, and scammers have long died, and their children are now old and deeply understanding little of modern life. Let's look at the West, which we so love to nod. There are killers such as Prince Felix Yusupov, and the children of the victims, the same Matren Rasputin, and the grandchildren of Mussolini, not at all embarrassed, write memoirs, sell the circumstances of the crimes and, by the way, live quite well by the way. The point is different. The authorities are afraid of the opening of the NKVD archives like fire, and, presumably, not without reason.

      But back to our main character. The Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR on November 25, November 1937, L. V. Kurchevsky was convicted under Articles 58 – 7, 58 – 8 and 58 – 11 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR and was sentenced to death with confiscation of property.

      The next day the sentence was carried out. However, retired Colonel Tumansky claims that Kurchevsky “lived in prison until 12 on January 1939”, referring to the VIMAIV and Armed Forces fund, inventory number 19 / 3037 – 3. I. E. Chutko, referring to the designer K. K. Glukharev, wrote that allegedly Kurchchevsky was seen at the front in 1943 in the form of a colonel and “escorted” and that he was repairing Katyusha. [61]

      One way or another, Kurchevsky was rehabilitated on February 29 1956 by the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR. “The verdict of the Military Collegium of November 25 of November 1937 against L. V. Kurchevsky was canceled due to newly discovered circumstances and the case was dismissed for lack of corpus delicti.”

      What kind of newly discovered circumstances are these - it is not supposed to know. The Kurchevsky case is still top secret.

      Writing about Leonid Kurchevsky in open literature began only in the 1970's, but, alas, only according to the scheme: the great designer is a victim of the NKVD. And only journalists and retired colonels wrote. The Ministry of Defense, however, occupied a blank defense - not a single word about Kurchevsky either in numerous open works on the history of artillery, or in similar closed publications. The Ministry of Defense, as it was silent under Brezhnev, is also silent under Putin.

      In conclusion, I would like to say about the statements of not too conscientious journalists that the villains of the Germans had stolen the documentation of Kurchevsky and created his recoilless guns according to his drawings.

      Indeed, in 1930, Krupp and Rheinmetall began designing recoilless guns. Both firms created rifled guns with a loaded barrel.

      The German recoilless guns were loaded using a wedge bolt rigidly connected to the nozzle. When loading the gate-nozzle block moved to the right.

      Outwardly and in their structure, German recoilless guns were very close to the 76,2-mm dynamo-reactive guns of the BOD system of L. V. Kurchevsky. This gave rise to some of our writers to argue that the Germans stole the documentation of the Kurchevsky guns.

      Actually
      1. 8 company
        0
        18 May 2012 00: 51
        Quote: Kars
        The fact that Kurchevsky was a PROJECTEter and mediocrely ruined the people's money, and almost ruined the real artillery. For this, ordinary soldiers rallied in BLOOD.


        Almost killed it ... Sounds scary. So you can imagine how Kurchevsky, under cover of darkness, in a mask, sneaks into the artillery parks and drills the barrels of real artillery with a twist. What you can think of to justify the monstrous mass shootings of 1937-1938. and the defeat of the summer of 1941. By the way, Kurchevsky was not the only one engaged in "sabotage". Tukhachevsky in 1933. issued an order on the creation of the Jet Research Institute (RNII), where the development of jet engines and missiles. In 1937, the creation of the first combat RS-82 and RS-132 was completed, as well as launchers for them. In the presence of Tukhachevsky, these RSs were fired from ground-based machines and from aircraft. The shooting was successful, and already in 1938. the first domestic combat jet systems could be adopted. However, after the arrest of Tukhachevsky, practically all the leadership of the institute and the most prominent specialists were arrested. The reason for the arrests was a series of denunciations of A. Kostikov, an employee of the institute, to various authorities about "sabotage activities" in the RNII. As a result, almost all the leadership of the RNII and the most prominent designers were arrested. Kleymenov, Langemak and three other people were shot. Korolev ended up in a camp in Kolyma; Glushko, Grave and other employees - in Beria's "sharashka". And the vigilant comrade Kostikov in 1938. became the director of the institute transformed into NII-3, received the Hero of Socialist Labor, and for a long time he was considered the sole creator of Katyusha.
        After coming to the leadership of Kostikov, work started at the institute: the "enemies of the people" were being identified. Only at the end of 1939 did the directive of the General Staff of the Red Army appear, requiring the intensification of work on the creation of rockets. NII-3 subordinated weapons of arms to Boris Vannikov, who replaced the director, secured the release of I.P. Grave and other employees, and also involved three enterprises of his people's commissariat in the preparation of production. In a short time, the completion of rockets was organized, which received the names M-82 and M-132. Launchers were also designed for using rockets on airplanes and on a car chassis - the BM-13 installation (which became the famous Katyusha). However, the first production cars were assembled much later. The reason was another case of “sabotage” in the People’s Commissariat of Arms, as a result of which the entire leadership of the People’s Commissariat and People’s Commissar Boris Vannikov themselves fell into the Lubyanka cellars. The work of the institute was once again frozen, and by the beginning of the war they were able to release only one Katyusha battery, which was first used near Orsha.
        And in 1991 I.T. Kleimenov (executed in 1938), G.E. Langemaku (executed in 1938), V.N. Luzhin (sentenced to 1940 years in 8, died in custody) were awarded the title Heroes of Social Labor. Mistake came out, excuse me, citizens shot!
        1. -1
          18 May 2012 10: 47
          Quote: Company 8
          So you can imagine how, under the cover of darkness, Kurchevsky sneaks into the artillery parks and drills the trunks of real artillery with a whirl.


          Yes, it looks very much to the article.

          And he has nothing to do with Katyushas, ​​so don’t need to be spread.
          And the fact that he was not alone, a searchlight - which the people's money spent is a fact - there are adventures with polygonal shells.
          Quote: Company 8
          Shooting was successful, and already in 1938.

          A German before.
          During the Second World War, German artillery turned out to be much more effective than the Soviet, and the contribution to this of Tukhachevsky with his universalization, and Kurchevsky with his dynamoactivities is invaluable - but it was not possible to shoot two or three times.
          about Korolev, Langemak --- I don’t know, the missiles do not interest me and I was not interested in this issue. But for Tukhachevsky and Kurchevsky everything is clear.
    18. 8 company
      0
      18 May 2012 13: 18
      Quote: Kars
      During the Second World War, German artillery was much more effective than the Soviet,


      Here you wrote a complete nonsense, I don’t even know how to comment on this. And the recoilless ones already in the Second World War were in service with both Germans and Americans.

      Quote: Kars
      but they couldn’t shoot two or three times.


      I have already noticed that there is a stable group of so-called "gunmen" at the forum and in Russian society as well. Only recently have I seen statements like:
      "800 thousand officials must be shot", "my grandfather's family was dispossessed and exiled, but that dispossession for the sake of industrialization is considered normal", "eh, we should return Stalin!" etc. I think in 1937 there were no less such people, it was they who were engaged in mass denunciation, torture investigation, extrajudicial conviction according to lists and executions. It was not Stalin and Yezhov who did this personally. Even now you would have flooded the country with blood, and with burning eyes and a fierce faith in your own righteousness. Only hands are short today, but you are so offended ... It seems so simple: he interrupted all the "enemies" and there are no problems, as they say, no man - no problem. Babbling ... True, we know from history that everyone who was directly involved in the repression under Yagoda, Yezhov and Beria in the NKVD-MGB was killed by their replacements. Here is such a difficult and stupid fate for them.
      1. +1
        18 May 2012 13: 33
        Quote: Company 8
        Here you wrote a complete nonsense, I don’t even know how to comment on this.


        What can’t you comment? Why is it so? The fact that the Wehrmacht possessed the best artillery is one of the reasons for its effectiveness. And even the ZIS-3 mantra is not necessary to repeat the best gun.
        Quote: Company 8
        I have already noticed that there is a stable group of so-called "gunmen" at the forum and in Russian society as well. Only recently have I seen statements like:

        and let's move away from the raster topic - and do the facts on at least Artillery?
        Quote: Company 8
        And the recoilless ones already in the Second World War were in service with both Germans and Americans.


        But 305 mm were “automatic” on airplanes? What the Americans invented in Russia even under the tsar, and Kurchevsky brought it to UTOPIA.
        The same Stalin --- (well, they say so) said about this that they spilled out a child along with water. And this is also the fault of Kurchevsky.





        http://www.duel.ru/publish/duel_sb/glava04.html

        Take a look and give your assessment. Maybe a discussion and get a constructive form.
        1. 8 company
          -1
          18 May 2012 14: 15
          [quote = Kars] and let's move away from the raster theme - and get down to the facts on at least Artillery? [/ quote]

          Yes, I do not advise you to promote your thesis "that the Wehrmacht possessed the best artillery, this is one of the reasons for its effectiveness", because any elementary request on the Internet will give a lot of examples of the high efficiency of Soviet artillery in WWII, even the Germans' statements confirming this are quite a few. Better not even start.

          [quote] http://www.duel.ru/publish/duel_sb/glava04.html
          Take a look and give your assessment. Maybe a discussion and get a constructive form. / Quote]

          About your link: read, stupid thing. Stalin purged the army in the summer of 1937 (Tukhachevsky was shot in June) and until the summer of 1941 was 4 years old. These 4 years should have been spent correcting the mistakes made, if any. But according to the results of summer 41, it is clear that the errors were not only not corrected, but also exacerbated. Apparently, it was necessary to shoot 500 generals each year, if we acted according to Stalin's methods.
          1. +1
            18 May 2012 14: 34
            Quote: Company 8
            yes, I do not advise you to promote your thesis "that the Wehrmacht possessed the best artillery, this is one of the reasons for its effectiveness",


            Honestly, I’m ready to prove my point, and not only the point of view. So let's get an elementary request.
            Quote: Company 8
            Stalin purged the army in the summer of 1937 (Tukhachevsky was shot in June) and before the summer of 1941 it was 4 of the year. These 4 years should have been spent correcting the mistakes made, if any.

            And so it was, but time was lost. And with the universal triplexes of the Tukhachevsk Red Army left without effective heavy artillery. And Leningrad and Stalingrad were saved only by naval artillery (I can directly see your surprise at the mention of Stalingrad)

            And again - I'm not interested in your raster theme, you can not strain it.
    19. 8 company
      0
      18 May 2012 14: 58
      http://asww.org/content/blogsection/7/32/6/0/

      Here is a good site, everything is visible.
      Tell us in more detail about how "Stalingrad was saved only by naval artillery."
      In turn, when I get home and rummage through books, I will give some interesting quotes on the effectiveness of owls. artillery.
    20. +1
      18 May 2012 15: 11
      Quote: Company 8

      http://asww.org/content/blogsection/7/32/6/0/

      Normal, weak review site.


      We somehow got into the habit of believing that our artillery during the war was better than German. At least, unlike airplanes and tanks, the formal numbers in the technical data tables of specific guns and systems look good and the number of gun barrels in the rifle divisions of those times looks impressive. But according to the recollections of the Germans, not only generals, but also front-line officers who fought on the battlefields, the Wehrmacht artillery, especially at the beginning of the war, significantly exceeded ours and not only because they had the best artillery reconnaissance and communications. What's the matter?

      Of course, Tukhachevsky nearly ditched our entire artillery. Already dispersal of the only design bureau of artillery (GKB-38), without any equivalent replacement, is sufficient for a sentence. But the matter is not only in Tukhachevsky, in his fool recoilless guns or universal cannons. Simply and in the field of artillery, it seems that people ordered it, poorly imagining a real battle... The chief of the German General Staff of the Ground Forces F. Halder, for example, wrote in his diary about the German artillery designers on December 7.12.1941, 3: "800. Dora (high-power gun) 7 mm caliber, shell weight - XNUMX tons. This work art, however useless. " It feels like our artillery designers tried to create works of art, and there were very few generals in the Red Army who could separate the useful from the useless.

      Vasily Gavrilovich Grabin, an outstanding Soviet designer who deservedly enjoyed the support of Stalin, created the 76-mm gun, which, in its own way, is a work of art. It was intended for arming artillery regiments of rifle divisions and therefore was called a division. It is interesting that both marshals who were responsible for the armament of the Red Army — Tukhachevsky and Kulik — were unhappy with it, moreover, from diametrically opposite positions.

      Tukhachevsky demanded that the divisional cannon be universal (he had previously read that the United States was going to equip its divisions with universal cannons), that is, in addition to firing at infantry and enemy fortifications, it could penetrate tank armor and shoot down aircraft. To fulfill the last two purposes, the gun had to have a high projectile speed - to be a large specific (calculated per caliber) power.

      And Kulik was dissatisfied with the large power of the divisional gun and for this reason he demanded to reproduce the combat characteristics of the Russian three-inch model 1902 d. This gives rise to various writers to pass Kulik as a retrograde, although Grabin himself never expressed doubts about Kulik's professionalism. But, as a reaction to criticism, he was dissatisfied with both marshals and he nevertheless made the gun, although not universal, but powerful. Everything is clear with Tukhachevsky, but nowhere is it explained why Kulik wanted to reduce the speed of the shell of a divisional gun, why he wanted to reduce its power. Let's try to explain it ourselves.

    21. 8 company
      -2
      18 May 2012 16: 20
      Do you feel a deep personal dislike for Tukhachevsky, perhaps, that you are in his place and out of place for vanity? Let me explain again: the marshal was shot in June 1937, until June 1941 another 4 (four) years. In 1935, the Germans held the first exercises of their only tank division at that time, and after 4 years they had already started a world war and tore the armies of Europe like Tuzik a heating pad. Do you know what GAU is? So write about the successes and shortcomings of the GAU in relation to artillery. How did it use these 4 years, when the army "freed itself" from the "stupid" Tukhachevsky.

      And what about naval artillery near Stalingrad?
      1. +1
        18 May 2012 18: 52
        Quote: Company 8
        You to Tukhachevsky

        Do you think his idol?
        Quote: Company 8
        How did it use these 4 years, when the army "freed itself" from the "stupid" Tukhachevsky.
        it’s easier to break up than to build.
        Quote: Company 8
        The Germans in the 1935 year held the first exercises of their only then tank division,
        And in ..CAME..they drove the teas?
        Quote: Company 8
        And what about naval artillery near Stalingrad?

        Quote: Company 8
        because any elementary request on the Internet will give a ton of examples of the high efficiency of Soviet artillery in WWI,

        will it be so or not?
        1. 8 company
          -2
          18 May 2012 19: 39
          Quote: Kars
          Do you think his idol?


          Not an idol, but I pay tribute to his military talent, which surpassed all the Voroshilov-Timoshenok-waders-Mehlis combined.
          It was Tukhachevsky who commanded one of the most combat-ready armies of the Eastern Front in the Civil, the Southern Front, which defeated Denikin, and if a bunch of stupid people trampled under Lvov had fulfilled the order of the RVS to transfer the First Horse to Tukhachevsky, he would have defeated the Poles. In addition, he created the first large mechanical units in the Red Army, founded the RNII - the developer of Katyusha, promoted the radar and much more.

          Quote: Kars
          four years is not enough.


          Well, the Germans had 4 years behind their eyes, but how much do you need for complete happiness?

          Quote: Kars
          And in ..CAME..they drove the teas?


          Are you hinting that the Soviet state really helped revive the military power of Germany?

          Quote: Kars
          will it be so or not?


          It will be, I will answer for my words.

          Let's turn to the book by E. Middeldorf "Tactics in the Russian Campaign":

          "During the Second World War, the Russian artillery had in its armament a VERY GOOD MODERN MATERIAL PART ... Both in terms of the quality of the gun steel and the design characteristics, it FULFILLED THE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT TIME ... The main types of guns of the divisional artillery and howler were 76 mm The 122mm cannon with a high initial velocity of the projectile was most suitable for the tasks of direct support of the infantry and the fight against tanks ... Russian artillery, using 76mm howitzers, achieved a powerful fire effect on German troops ... 122mm and 152mm howitzers were in service with the artillery of the RGVK and had great firepower ... 203mm and 82mm rocket launchers had a strong moral impact and were especially effective when used on a massive scale ... Russian SPGs had powerful armor protection and were used in the same way as German assault guns ... The Russians were able to form a large the number of mortar units and subunits that inflicted largelosses to the German infantry ... The Russian artillery, in spite of some shortcomings, was a branch of the army that possessed tremendous firepower and high combat qualities. "

          Well, will arrange such a source?
          1. +2
            18 May 2012 20: 06
            Quote: Company 8
            but I pay tribute to his military talent,

            This insignificance failed with his .. skating rink .. Polish company. All that was enough for him was to poison the Tambov peasants with gas. And as a theoretician, he completely failed the Red Army’s weapons, starting from BT tanks, universal artillery, ending with the breakdown of communications and heavy artillery.
            Quote: Company 8
            Well, the Germans had 4 years behind their eyes, but how much do you need for complete happiness?

            With what joy is it four years old? Yes, and the Polish and French companies could be won without much use of armored vehicles. And the artillery was also improved under the Treaty of Versailles.
            Quote: Company 8
            Are you hinting that the Soviet state really helped revive the military power of Germany?

            I don’t mean anything. The USSR and the Weimar Republic fruitfully cooperated in the military sphere and MUTUALLY BENEFICIALLY.
            Quote: Company 8
            Let's turn to the book by E. Middeldorf "Tactics in the Russian Campaign":

            Why do you really want otmazatsa with such general tales of a beaten general?
            Quote: Company 8
            76mm gun with a high beginning. the speed of the projectile was best suited for the tasks of directly supporting infantry and fighting tanks ...
            For example, this is complete nonsense, it is best suited to support infantry guns with a variable initial speed, and anti-tank properties only made this weapon heavier.
            Say, a projectile of an 76-mm gun weighs about 6 kg, and 152 mm - 48 kg. But to say that the second is more effective than the first simply in 8 times is impossible. This is another quality. For example, 20 shells of 76-mm gun with a total weight of 120 kg can get into a concrete bunker and not cause the slightest harm. And one shell of the 152-mm gun will destroy him. It is not always economical to shoot large-caliber shells at small targets, but such shells are always more effective than smaller ones. We should take this into account in order to understand why the Germans considered their artillery more efficient.

            Secondly, there are things that few people take into account. This is the effectiveness of a fragmentation projectile depending on how it contacts the ground at the target, how it is located in relation to the ground at the time of the explosion. If the shell at this moment is parallel to the ground, (lies on the ground), then it will give very little debris to the enemy. Most of them will go into the ground and into the air, there will be almost no fragments flying above the ground and hitting the enemy.

            The most effective projectile is falling from above, which at the time of the explosion, as it were, stands at its sharp end. For such a shell, the overwhelming mass of fragments will be lethal, and artillery firing such shells at the enemy’s manpower will always be more effective than the same caliber of artillery, but firing shells flying along the ground. This is the second thing to consider.

            But in order for the projectile to fall to the ground almost from above, it is necessary that the gun shoot up. Take the Grabin’s divisional cannon ZIS-3. If she lifts the trunk with a maximum elevation of 37о, then her shell will fly away for 13 km and there it will fall close to the vertical. This is good, but if the target - a group of enemy soldiers - is seen only 1 km from the front, which most often happened, then what should I do? Either shoot at it so that shells fall flat on the ground and give few fragments, or take the gun to your rear 12 km from the front line and shoot from there. In relation to ZIS-3 you can imagine no other.

            But if you reduce the power of the divisional cannon — shorten the barrel, reduce the weight of the powder in the charge — this will lead to a decrease in the velocity of the projectile and to an increase in the steepness of its flight path, even when firing at a short distance. The gun will become more effective when firing at enemy manpower. But it's not only that.

            The earth is flat only on the staff maps of strategists. In life, it is almost always wavy, has skyscrapers, ridges, troughs, beams, etc. If there is a height or a hollow in front of the front and the enemy is accumulating there (on the return ramp), then you cannot get it with a high power density gun. The projectile flying out of the barrel at high speed flies in a straight line for a long time. And it will explode either on the front slope or fly far away. And the enemy will be safe. But with a low power density gun, you can easily get it on the return ramp due to the steepness of the projectile flight path.

            If you take our 76-mm ZIS-3 cannon, a German light field 105-mm howitzer and put them side by side, it turns out that their firing range is approximately the same (13,2 and 12,3 km), that is, they can fire around the same area. But the German howitzer (a weapon specially designed for firing along a steep trajectory) will not have a single point in this area where it could not send its 14,8 kg projectile. And the ZIS-3 cannon will have many "dead" zones (behind the forest, houses, on the back slopes, in the beams, etc.) where it will not be able to send its 6,2 kg projectile.

            Guns with a high initial velocity of the projectile are indispensable when firing at open rapidly moving targets (tanks, planes, etc.) and when firing at very long distances. But in the divisions for tanks and aircraft, specialized artillery fires - anti-tank and anti-aircraft. And for distant purposes, divisional artillery simply does not shoot - for this there is corps artillery and artillery of the reserve of the main command (RGK).


            Quote: Company 8
            Russian self-propelled guns had powerful armor protection

            And these in nature were not in 1941
            Quote: Company 8
            Russian artillery, despite some flaws,

            How culturally written.
            Quote: Company 8
            Well, will arrange such a source?

            Summary - you didn’t even try to understand artillery, probably because the ears of the strategist you love so much stick out behind almost every mistake.
            1. 8 company
              -2
              18 May 2012 20: 44
              Quote: Kars
              All that was enough for him was to poison the Tambov peasants with gas


              And how much he hunted, give the amount, since you are such a connoisseur of the Tambov uprising.

              Quote: Kars
              Yes, and the Polish and French companies could be won without much use of armored vehicles.


              Infantry, or what? Thanks, neighing laughing

              Quote: Kars
              I don’t mean anything. The USSR and the Weimar Republic fruitfully cooperated in the military sphere and MUTUALLY BENEFICIALLY.


              And who learned more from this collaboration?

              Quote: Kars
              Why do you really want otmazatsa with such general tales of a beaten general?


              And you are not fundamentally interested in the opinion of the Germans? Ah, I forgot, you are a fan of the strategist Mukhin, I understood everything wink

              Quote: Kars
              And these in nature were not in 1941


              And who ever spoke about 1941? You did not say, here is your phrase that you are trying to prove:
              "The Wehrmacht possessed the best artillery and this is one of the reasons for its effectiveness."

              Quote: Kars
              Summary - you haven’t even tried artillery robbery,


              Well, if for you the main specialist in artillery is Mukhin, then where am I with a pig's snout and in the "general's" row recourse

              I don’t ask about naval artillery near Stalingrad anymore, I'm tired of it.
              1. +3
                18 May 2012 21: 08
                Quote: Company 8
                And how much he hunted, give the amount, since you are such a connoisseur of the Tambov uprising.

                And what is not enough?
                Quote: Company 8
                Infantry, or what? Thanks, neighing

                Please, like without tanks for thousands of years did not fight.
                Quote: Company 8
                And who learned more from this collaboration?

                And why this question? I wrote mutually, and who brought up the most difficult question. I can say that the USSR received quite a few.
                Quote: Company 8
                And you are not fundamentally interested in the opinion of the Germans? Ah, I forgot, you are a fan of the strategist Mukhin, I understood everything

                And where does it happen, a German, not a German --- they already disgraced themselves with the T-34. At first everything was normal, and then the T-34 was not a super tank, we would have it all broken.
                And even in your .. help .. there are instructions about the shortcomings. For example, about how many types of shells were to German guns, and how many to Soviet ones. And about the ZIS-3, did you have any questions? our soldiers had to bear losses in the offensives. And something that was mostly praised by artillerymen, and the infantry by the M-30 howitzer
                Quote: Company 8
                And who ever spoke about 1941? You did not say, here is your phrase that you are trying to prove:
                "The Wehrmacht possessed the best artillery and this is one of the reasons for its effectiveness."

                yes, he possessed it, but now we are considering Tukhachevsky’s contribution more, and if you are interested in self-propelled guns, then the USSR didn’t make a good self-propelled artillery self-propelled guns, but he did everything he wanted to do. ZIS-122
                Quote: Company 8
                Well, if for you the main specialist in artillery is Mukhin, then where am I with a pig's snout and in the "general's" row

                Rather, Shirokorad - and for you, who?
                Quote: Company 8
                I don’t ask about naval artillery near Stalingrad anymore, I’m tired

                But it’s difficult to see for yourself what was difficult, for example, about marine transports.
    22. 8 company
      -1
      18 May 2012 22: 10
      Quote: Kars
      And what is not enough?


      In short, there is no answer.

      Quote: Kars
      Please, like without tanks for thousands of years did not fight.


      Cool argument. Apparently, tanks for you are not the main striking force of the Second World War, but a means of supporting infantry, as in the First World War.

      Quote: Kars
      And about ZIS-3, did you have any questions?


      Not. The Germans were afraid of her, but ours praised. And she really was a universal cannon, capable of effectively fighting armored vehicles, and bunkers, and infantry.

      Quote: Kars
      USSR did not make a good self-propelled gun


      By the way, the main designer of self-propelled guns before the war, Syachintov was also shot, rejoice.

      Quote: Kars
      Rather, Shirokorad - and for you, who?


      For me - front-line soldiers. By the way, I recommend the memoirs of frontline gunners Pyotr Demidov "In the Service of the God of War", Pyotr Mikhin "The Gunners, Stalin Gave the Order", Mansur Abdulin "From Stalingrad to the Dnieper".

      Quote: Kars
      Is it hard to see for yourself?


      What then to discuss if you are not able to give Old as an argument?
      1. 0
        18 May 2012 22: 29
        Quote: Company 8
        In short, there is no answer.

        Your version?
        Quote: Company 8
        Cool argument. Apparently, tanks for you are not the main striking force of the Second World War, but a means of supporting infantry, as in the First World War.

        Can you refute it? French, and especially Polish companies could be won without the help of tanks. An analysis of the Polish company of the Wehrmacht revealed many shortcomings.
        Quote: Company 8
        Not. The Germans were afraid of her, but ours praised. And she really was a universal cannon, capable of effectively fighting armored vehicles, and bunkers, and infantry.

        When were the Germans afraid of it? (That they were very fearful --- as soon as they reached the Volga) And her universalization only gave her the average ability to cope with all kinds of actions, especially the struggle against entrenched infantry.
        Quote: Company 8
        By the way, the main designer of self-propelled guns before the war, Syachintov was also shot, rejoice

        I didn’t hear about this, but what did he design? And when was he shot? By chance not at the direction of Tukhachevsky?
        Quote: Company 8
        For me-the front-line soldiers.

        What are you? Directly and front-line soldiers? Of course I respect them, but this is an individual opinion (by the way, you do not give any specifics), but they can perfectly compare B-4 and 21 cm Mrs 18
        Quote: Company 8
        What then to discuss if you are not able to give Old as an argument?

        Do not want to study the effect of artillery of the RVGK near Stalingrad yourself? What if I discovered you, maybe the Volga flotilla was not mentioned?
    23. 8 company
      -1
      18 May 2012 23: 05
      Quote: Kars
      Your version?


      No one. At that time, the arsenal of the spacecraft did not have effective military warfare agents. Peasants could in the worst case be scared.

      Quote: Kars
      Can you refute it?


      Why will I refute what even schoolchildren know?

      Quote: Kars
      When was the Germans afraid of it?


      Every time received from her. I brought you the opinion of a German. By the way, your unloved ZIS-3 has become the most massive WWII gun, and in some countries was in service until recently.

      Quote: Kars
      I have not heard about this


      It is sad.

      Quote: Kars
      What are you? Right and war veterans


      Yes, like that, only practitioners, not inquisitive theorists.

      Quote: Kars
      maybe the Volga flotilla was not mentioned?


      So you equipped the Volga flotilla with sea guns. I hope the battleships did not get stuck on the Volga shoals?
      1. 0
        18 May 2012 23: 28
        Quote: Company 8
        and one. At that time, the arsenal of the spacecraft did not have effective military warfare agents. Peasants could in the worst case be scared.


        In addition to the brutal repressions, the rebels were brought down by the full power of the regular Red Army: artillery, aviation, armored vehicles and even chemical weapons (E56 chlorine). Documentary evidence has been preserved regarding the use of chemical weapons. In particular, in the diary of the combat operations of the artillery battalion of the Zavolzhsky Military District brigade, it is written that on July 13 of the 1921 of the year the battle was spent: three-inch grenades - 160, shrapnel - 69, chemical grenades - 47. On August 3, the battery commander of the Belgorod artillery courses reported to the artillery chief of the 6 combat section that when shelling the island on Lake Kipets, 65 shrapnel, 49 grenades and 59 chemical shells [24] were fired. The chemical shells used by the Bolsheviks in May-June of the 1921 of the year led to the deaths of not only the rebels, but also the civilian population [1].
        Good scarecrows
        Quote: Company 8
        Why will I refute what even schoolchildren know?
        What exactly the students know is just interesting.
        Quote: Company 8
        Every time received from her. I brought you the opinion of a German. By the way, your unloved ZIS-3 has become the most massive WWII gun, and in some countries was in service until recently.

        What are you? Really? What you brought is just an excuse, but I’ll give you a quote, the German apparently tried to somehow be honest.
        Quote: Company 8
        Russian artillery, despite some disadvantages
        Can voice what the German had in mind.
        The fact that ZIS -3 has become the most massive gun is small, which means, in addition to the fact that Grabin was able to create a technological tool.
        trunk gun F-22USW had excellent ballistic characteristics and manufacturability. T.O. the designers needed to lay the F-2USV barrel on the ZiS-22 carriage. To absorb approximately 30-35% of recoil energy, the barrel was decided to be equipped with a muzzle brake. In parallel with the design of ZiS-3, questions of the technology of its production were resolved, testing of the manufacture of its parts by casting, stamping, and welding was carried out. Compared with F-22USV, labor costs decreased by 3 times, and the cost of one gun by one third.

        Do you know what the Germans had to do with them captured to rid them of universality?
        Quote: Company 8
        It is sad.
        Probably did nothing good? By the way, all the same, what?
        Quote: Company 8
        Yes, like that, only practitioners, not inquisitive theorists.

        Well, I already wrote that the infantrymen (for the sake of which artillery is trying) loved the M-30 howitzer after which the Germans did not shoot, and not the most massive ZIS-3 which could not perform high-quality work to suppress the enemy. And sorry, but I will repeat again that the front-line soldiers it is individual, and about 8 millions of them they couldn’t tell anything about the artillery’s effectiveness, but they proved the German’s effectiveness.
        Quote: Company 8
        So you equipped the Volga flotilla with sea guns. I hope the battleships did not get stuck on the Volga shoals?

        And what about sea guns only on battleships? Now you made me laugh. But this is still an indicator that the Red Army was much inferior in long-range artillery
        the Wehrmacht, and there was almost nothing to shoot through the Volga, while German artillery could afford it.
      2. -1
        19 May 2012 00: 34
        Quote: Company 8
        I hope the battleships did not get stuck on the Volga shoals?

        wassat
    24. 8 company
      -1
      19 May 2012 00: 47
      Okay, talking to you was fun, your views are very original, especially about the weak role of tanks in the Second World War and the superiority of German artillery over ours, but the discussion came to a clear impasse. Hi Mukhin and Shirokorada! lol
      1. -1
        19 May 2012 09: 12
        Quote: Company 8
        Hi Mukhin and Shirokorada!


        I will tell you. But you did not succeed in showing off your knowledge.
        If you are so confident in yourself, then for what reason there are no facts?
        Quote: Company 8
        Aboi role of tanks in the Second World

        Strange interpretation - I'm talking specifically about the French and Polish companies.
        Quote: Company 8
        superiority of German artillery over ours,

        So let's categorize
        PT artillery
        Tank guns
        long-range
        Self-propelled guns
        PT SAU
        Artillery self-propelled guns
        Infantry support
        But in principle, of course, everything is clear with you - you know little about the topic.
        1. 8 company
          +1
          19 May 2012 10: 57
          Quote: Kars
          So let's categorize

          If the average throughout the war:
          Fri - equivalent
          Tank - is equivalent.
          SAU is equivalent.
          Medium howitzers - our 122mm were significantly superior to it. 105mm.
          Long-range - slight German superiority.
          Conventional mortars - 4's Soviet superiority.
          Reactive - 10 times the superiority of the Soviet, if not more. Only Soviet "Katyushas" in the Second World War could create a continuous zone of destruction of a large area.
          Summary: in the field of the effectiveness of Soviet artillery operations, it significantly exceeded the German one. This is understandable to anyone who is seriously interested in the history of WWII.
          1. -1
            19 May 2012 11: 40
            Quote: Company 8
            Fri - equivalent

            Completely lost --- something equivalent to 8,8 cm PaK 43 did not work out. BS-3 hooked at the very end of the war and is inferior.
            Your favorite ZIS-3 as anti-tank is inferior to the PAK-40 by 500 mm 45 mm armor penetration.
            Quote: Company 8
            Tank - is equivalent.

            Yes it can’t be, is it?
            Q-34 and 7.5-cm KwK 40 are equivalent? on the same 500 (maximum value) 92 and 120, respectively?
            And about the comparison of 88 and 85 mm guns and say nothing.
            Or will we compare the D-25T with the 12.8-cm KwK 44 in terms of armor-piercing and rate of fire?
            Quote: Company 8
            SAU is equivalent.

            But what can you really call the Soviet Artillery self-propelled guns? Or an assault gun? Even the tank destroyers that turned out to be pretty good win only in the category of manufacturability.
            Quote: Company 8
            Medium howitzers - our 122mm were significantly superior to it. 105mm.

            Is that just that, but what about the light German 6 inch howitzers?
            Quote: Company 8
            Long-range - slight German superiority.

            Total German superiority in both long-range and heavy artillery is one comparison of the B-4 and 21 cm Mrs 18
            Quote: Company 8
            Conventional mortars - 4's Soviet superiority.

            unless numerical.
            Quote: Company 8
            Reactive - 10 times the superiority of the Soviet, if not more. Only Soviet "Katyushas" in the Second World War could create a continuous zone of destruction of a large area.

            By the way, very low accuracy and application culture made Boyats katyushas not only Germans, but also Soviet soldiers. German Analogs were also quite effective when using non-woofers both towed and on the chassis of armored personnel carriers and tanks.
            Quote: Company 8
            Summary: in the field of the effectiveness of Soviet artillery operations, it significantly exceeded the German one. This is understandable to anyone who is seriously interested in the history of WWII.


            for a seriously interested in the history of the Great Patriotic War, it is clear that the destructive influence of Tukhachevsky almost ruined the Soviet artillery, which especially suffered from the quality of ammunition, the lack of good instrumental reconnaissance and communications. But this does not apply to you.
            By the way, on the basis of what kind of literature have your conclusions been drawn? And it is strange that you so want to belittle the heroism of the Soviet soldier while trying to attribute the art of the Red Army to almost total superiority.
            1. -2
              19 May 2012 11: 43
              Maybe you decide to somehow restore the gaps
    25. 8 company
      +1
      19 May 2012 11: 47
      You have a specific bzik in your head for Tukhachevsky. I repeat once again: GAU was engaged in the development of artillery in the absence of Tukhachevsky for 4 years before the war. During this time, Germany created ALL HIS STRIKING FORCES: from 1935 to 1939. What can you talk about if you do not notice completely obvious facts.
      About "bad" Katyushas and "good" Nebelwefers och. liked it, laughed for a long time laughing laughing laughing
      In short, don't make me laugh anymore with your wild interpretation of WWII. Ambets.
      1. -1
        19 May 2012 12: 05
        Quote: Company 8
        I repeat once again: GAU was engaged in the development of artillery

        Quote: Kars
        Of course, Tukhachevsky nearly ditched our entire artillery. Already dispersal of the only design bureau of artillery (GKB-38), without any equivalent replacement, is sufficient for a sentence.

        Quote: Company 8
        4 years before the war.

        It is not enough.
        Quote: Company 8
        During this time, Germany has created ALL HIS STRIKING FORCES: from 1935 to 1939.

        This is not true. Germany and under the Versailles commissions improved artillery and created tanks. It’s not at home in the USSR and Sweden.
        Quote: Company 8
        What can you talk about if you do not notice completely obvious facts at point blank range.

        C'mon, you don’t even know basic things about artillery, but you are telling something. Almost all the artillery of the conquered countries of France, Czechoslovakia, Poland, and Norway were armed with 1941.
        Quote: Company 8
        About "bad" Katyushas and "good" Nebelwefers och. liked it, laughed for a long time

        In vain, by the way, laughing.
        Quote: Company 8
        In short, don't make me laugh anymore with your wild interpretation of WWII. Ambets.

        And you show her complete ignorance --- Hitler Kaput, detachment detachments, border battle lost because Tukhachevsky shot.
        So what about kancretics? Will you bring the Soviet Artillery self-propelled guns? At least the Vespe level?


        A day or two later, tanks from another unit came to the aid of the brigade, and, having overcome the mud on the roads, the Katyush regiment (BM-13) approached. This regiment is associated with losses in the personnel of the brigade. The regiment brought down its fire not only against the enemy, but also against the 2th battalion and the 3th company of our battalion, which for some reason were in the trenches in the field, and not in the city, like our company. Apparently, they could not break into the city; and Shakulo and I were lucky. 30 – 35 people died from one volley. During the month of fighting, they did not suffer as many losses as from a single Katyusha salvo! It painfully pains for the fallen soldiers - young, healthy and necessary for further battles. And even more painful when they die from their own fire,
        Evgeny Bessonov
        Tank landing. 3800 km on tank armor
        1. 8 company
          +1
          19 May 2012 12: 45
          Quote: Kars
          ridge detachments, border battle lost because Tukhachevsky shot.


          Why are you stooping to such outright lies? Neither about the detachments, nor about the fact that the border battle was lost due to the absence of Tukhachevsky, I did not say a word. Behave dishonestly, with a frank liar I have nothing more to talk about.
          1. -1
            19 May 2012 12: 56
            Quote: Company 8
            ? Neither about the detachments, nor about the fact that the border battle was lost due to the absence of Tukhachevsky, I did not say a word. Behave dishonestly, with a frank liar I have nothing more to talk about.


            But what are you? Really? Or maybe in the elementary specifics of the artillery fighter snapped?

            What I wrote
            Quote: Kars
            Hitler Kaput, detachment detachments, border battle lost because Tukhachevsky shot.


            It simply characterizes your knowledge - a wild mixture of old Soviet dogmas, with the new Solonikov / Rezun trend without the slightest attempt at analysis. Not to mention that when you quoted the Tambov uprising and chlorine, they brought in silence, do not bring any wisdom from where. you about Katyusha two memories.
    26. 8 company
      0
      19 May 2012 13: 53
      Quote: Kars
      Neglecting already that when you cited a quote about Tambov uprising and chlorine-silent,


      So I did not deny the Tambov uprising and chlorine, I clearly asked - how many people were persecuted? And you are silent, and now the arrows have thrown at me, as if I would deny the Tambov uprising and chlorine. I did not say a word about the Solonins / Rezunov, but about the front-line soldiers I have brought you three books of memoirs of artillerymen, and you are silent. Well, you and the master lie and distort, here you are definitely a great specialist !!! fellow
      1. 0
        19 May 2012 13: 58
        Quote: Company 8
        So I did not deny the Tambov uprising and chlorine, I clearly asked - how many people were persecuted?

        Quote: Company 8
        No one. At that time, the arsenal of the spacecraft did not have effective military warfare agents. Peasants could in the worst case be scared.


        Strange is not denial.
        Quote: Company 8
        About front-line soldiers I brought you three books of memoirs of artillerymen

        Quote: Company 8
        Well, you and the master lie and distort, here you are definitely a great specialist !!!

        And to catch weak lies? I’m constantly on incompetence.

        As for the memories ---- highlight specific phrases confirming your words.
        Pyotr Mikhin "The artillerymen, Stalin gave the order," I read this one, nothing special? What can you say about it? For example, about the PT artillery?
    27. 8 company
      0
      19 May 2012 14: 18
      Quote: Kars
      A catch on lies weak?


      Your true lie:
      1. what I said in the detachment;
      2. what I said about the connection of Tukhachevsky with border battles;
      3. that I deny the use of gases in the Tambov uprising by Tukhachevsky;
      4. that I allegedly refer to Corned Beef-Rezun.


      Your specific stupidity:
      1. on PT "completely lost";
      2. for "Katyusha" - see only the negative and quote only the negative;
      3. "The French, and especially the Polish companies could have been won without the help of tanks."
      4. about marine art. near Stalingrad blurted out and very good. stupidly left to the side, like, look for it yourself.

      The picture is clear.
      1. 0
        19 May 2012 14: 39
        Quote: Company 8
        Your true lie:
        1. what I said in the detachment;
        2. what I said about the connection of Tukhachevsky with border battles;
        3. that I deny the use of gases in the Tambov uprising by Tukhachevsky;
        4. that I allegedly refer to Corned Beef-Rezun


        I'm wildly sorry, but this is not a lie. THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS
        Quote: Kars
        And you show her complete ignorance --- Hitler Kaput, detachment detachments, border battle lost because Tukhachevsky shot.

        Although Hitler’s kaput isn’t a lie. Or did you write this too? And you may not deny the use of gases, but are trying to diminish their effectiveness, is it really true that only a few chemical shells cited in combat diaries did not kill a single person with chlorine?
        Quote: Company 8
        1. on PT "completely lost";

        And what not? The main Soviet PT gun for some reason appears to be a divisional ZIS-3, and it is inferior in terms of armor penetration to the PAK 40
        powerful PT guns were never made, the PAK 43 remained unsurpassed.
        45 ka in 1941 turned out to be overloaded with shells, and could not prove its tabular characteristics.
        Quote: Company 8
        for "Katyusha" - see only the negative and quote only the negative;

        Positive quotes without me are enough --- everywhere .. SEA OF FIRE .. and for some reason I don’t want to perceive reality, each system has its drawbacks, and hiding it is silly.
        Quote: Company 8
        3. "The French, and especially the Polish companies could have been won without the help of tanks."
        Could, the Germans almost did it in 1914. The Polish armored forces in 1939 were not particularly strong, the French themselves were also indistinguishable by effectiveness. So, just the German infantry landed on trucks together with artillery could decide the outcome of those companies.
        Quote: Company 8
        about marine art. near Stalingrad blurted out and very good. stupidly left to the side, like, look for it yourself.

        And you are too lazy? They would know about the Volga canal boats and floating batteries. About the sea rail conveyors and the Kane naval guns mounted on armored trains, who could at least somehow conduct counter-battery fire.
      2. 0
        19 May 2012 14: 59
        Quote: Company 8
        2. what I said about the connection of Tukhachevsky with border battles;

        Well, I’ve not only seen your comments here, for example, such


        Quote: Company 8
        The author of the article writes nonsense, trying not to notice that the Red Army was beheaded, there were almost no worthy, highly professional commanders in it. In the rank of brigade commander, the marshal before the war was shot more than 500 people! Having tanks 3 times more than the Germans, including the KV and T-34, whose analogues even the Germans did not have, we at 1941 suffered one catastrophic defeat after another under the leadership of the genius Mehlis, Tymoshenok, Voroshilov and Dzhugashviley. We were saved only by the fact that Stalin, under the threat of complete defeat and loss of his power, changed his personnel policy, stopped political purges and executions, and in the war commanders of a new formation began to grow: the Rokossovskys, Katukovs, Baghramyans, Gorbatovs ... Shame on Russian liars and perverters stories!

        Tukhachevsky, of course, doesn’t occur, but it means, especially if you read your other comments. An angel with wings directly.
        Tukhachevsky noted [21] [22]:
        Nothing happens without executions. Executions in one village do not apply to another until the same measure is taken.

        So why blame if the same and finished.

        And yet Isn't Katukov at war since the beginning of the war? And was Bagromyan from the repressed?
    28. 0
      27 September 2021 10: 39
      On July 27, 44, the Narva Isthmus. 30 Soviet tanks attacked the Blue Mountains. In 300 meters, the trenches and the Germans with faust cartridges. They burned 15 tanks, 15 tanks returned to their original. Before that, 5 tanks broke through. At night, the faustists burned them. Until August 10, ours tanks circled around the mountains and destroyed the Nazis. But they could not finish off. Here the Germans did not allow 150 Soviet tanks to pass. Tanks 2 U.A. was knocked out by artillery and grenade launchers. There was only one battalion of their own self-propelled guns.

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