Perspectives of Soviet and Russian wheeled tanks

81
The use of such an exotic type of armored vehicles as wheeled Tanks, in the armies of different countries takes place, but in the Soviet and Russian army this type of combat vehicles somehow did not take root. In the Soviet Union and in modern Russia, attempts have been repeatedly made to create a wheeled tank, but with all the variety of armored vehicles, it never came to its adoption.





According to unofficial classification, a wheeled tank is a lightly armored fighting vehicle on a wheel track with heavy armament. In fact, this is a heavy armored car, usually weighing 16-25 t, with cannon armament capable of destroying enemy armored vehicles. In some armies of the world, this combat vehicle is used to support infantry on the battlefield, as a tank destroyer and quite often in local conflicts and counter-terrorist operations.

According to its characteristics, this type of armored vehicles can be attributed to the main and light tanks, assessed by firepower, protection and maneuverability. On protection, a wheeled tank will always be inferior to the main tank due to weight restrictions and the load on the chassis; its protection can only be at the level of a light tank from a rifle weapons and shell fragments.

By firepower, wheeled and light tracked tanks have already approached the main tanks and tank guns are often installed on them. That is, the firepower of all three classes of tanks with modern technology can be made equal, and such samples already exist, for example, the Sprut-SD.



The most interesting question is the throughput and mobility of wheeled tanks, in fact, because of what they can in some cases be in competition with their two fellows. In terms of operational mobility and maneuverability, the wheeled tank has high road performance and advantages in terms of travel range and speed on the highway, solid ground, in lowland conditions, not muddy dirt roads, in areas of developed road infrastructure and urban development.

A wheeled tank can be quickly and easily deployed over fairly long distances under its own power without drastically reducing its resource. Compared to tracked armored vehicles, this is a major advantage. Moreover, they are often floating and can overcome water obstacles without preparation. In this case, the wheeled tank is seriously inferior in terrain to caterpillar brethren in off-road conditions, in autumn and spring thaw, in mountainous and wooded marshes.

Estimating the operational mobility in the columns, especially those consisting of different types of equipment, it is necessary to bear in mind that the speed of movement of the column will be significantly lower than the capabilities of the wheeled tank. In this case, the speed of movement during the day will be 30-40 km / h, and at night, the order of 20-25 km / h. That is, when moving as part of a column, the advantage of a wheeled tank in speed is practically lost.

Therefore, it is necessary to evaluate the characteristics of a wheeled tank in comparison with other types of armored vehicles and its advantages in operational mobility in specific conditions of combat use and in a particular theater of military operations.

As examples of the implementation of the wheeled tank concept abroad, the Rooikat heavy armored car, equipped with an 1990-mm cannon and two 76-mm machine guns, was adopted by the South African army. The combat vehicle was intended for reconnaissance, combat armored vehicles, counterguerrilla operations.

The French heavy armored car AMX-10RC was made from 1976 to 1994 year and was in service with the French army. Equipped with a 105-mm cannon and a twin machine gun caliber 7,62 mm. Designed for reconnaissance, combat armored vehicles, used in peacekeeping operations.

The Italian heavy-duty combat vehicle Centauro was manufactured from 1991 to 2006. It was in service with the Italian and Spanish armies. Designed for reconnaissance and combat armored vehicles. It was equipped with a 105-mm cannon, was an option with a 120-mm cannon and two machine guns caliber 7,62 mm.



Received the greatest fame when used in peacekeeping operations in Somalia. Numerous defects were identified, after which the machine has undergone a number of improvements. A batch of these machines was tested in the USA, and in Russia, in 2012, two such machines were tested. They showed low performance and found no further use in the Russian army.

In the Soviet Union, work was also carried out in this direction. The base used Soviet armored personnel carriers. In 1976, a wheeled self-propelled anti-tank gun 70С2 "Sting-S" caliber 14 mm was developed on the basis of the BTR-85. By 1980, the gun successfully passed the full cycle of tests, but was not accepted for service.

By the time the works were completed, this gun did not allow to effectively deal with the new tanks of the enemy. By this time, the Cobra and Reflex guided munitions had already been created for tank guns of the 125 caliber mm, and the Sting-C gun caliber was not suitable for this type of weapon.

In the middle of the 80's, a second attempt was made to create a wheeled tank. In 1984, the development and testing of the Sprut-SD self-propelled anti-tank cannon began. As part of this work, two modifications were developed for the ground forces, the Sprut-CER on the MTLB and 2C28 Sprut-K tracked chassis on the wheeled chassis based on the BTR-90 Rostock.

All modifications of the combat vehicles were to be equipped with an 125-mm tank gun, the most advanced at that time tank sighting system "Irtysh" and guided weapons along the laser beam "Reflex". They all had the opportunity to fire tank ammunition.

This BTR for almost 20 years, was officially adopted, but never launched in the series. Due to the fact that the base chassis did not appear, the work on the Sprut-K was discontinued.

The Sprut-SD airborne self-propelled artillery was more fortunate; after 20 years of development and a test cycle, it was adopted by the Airborne Forces in 2006. This combat vehicle is firepower at the level of the main T-72 and T-90 tanks and is in no way inferior to them, while it was floating and parachuted from an airplane.

For the ground troops "Sprut-K" on a wheeled chassis has not reached, and such a combat vehicle clearly would not hurt. The use of the Sprut-SD for this purpose is hardly advisable, since the machine is complicated due to the specific requirements associated with its airborne landing.

The experience of the self-propelled gun "Sprut-K" and "Sprut-SD" proved the possibility of creating a combat vehicle with heavy armament on a wheeled course with firepower at the level of the main tank. The third attempt to create a wheeled tank was undertaken already in our time on the basis of a new unified wheeled platform "Boomerang", adopted by 2015 in the year to replace the previous generation of armored personnel carriers. On the basis of this platform, tests of the K-16 armored personnel carrier and the K-17 infantry fighting vehicle were developed and are being completed.



Apparently, the concept will be based on the development of the Sprut-K with the use of a cannon and the armament complex of the main tank, which allows it to fire tank ammunition. Such a machine will have the firepower of the main tank, surpass it in maneuverability and speed, while giving in on protection and terrain.

In assessing the need to develop such a machine, first of all, the need of the army for such equipment and its place in the structure of troops should be assessed. According to its characteristics, the wheeled tank cannot replace the main tank on the battlefield as the main striking force of the ground forces, since it does not provide the same protection and maneuverability as the main tank.

It has advantages - it is maneuverable, high-speed and can immediately overcome water obstacles. Therefore, its place in the niche where the main tank can not be effectively used. A wheeled tank is not a battlefield machine, because of poor security and low maneuverability in difficult terrain, it will quickly become easy prey for the enemy.

Due to such advantages as operational maneuverability, high speed of movement on the highway and solid ground, the ability to quickly force water barriers without prior preparation of the reservoir and rapid transfer of armored vehicles over long distances, wheeled tank in certain conditions of application can be effective.

A wheeled tank is unlikely to become a massive war machine. He has a rather specific range of tasks, where his advantages can be used. These are applications in low-intensity local conflicts, participation in peacekeeping and counter-terrorist operations, in reconnaissance, patrols, combat guarding, the elimination of local enemy breakthroughs and threats, in conditions of flat terrain and developed road infrastructure.

Foreign models of wheeled tanks were used in a number of local conflicts and have already shown their strengths and weaknesses. Much clarified the conflicts in the Middle East and especially in Syria, where in conditions of flat terrain mobile groups armed with light-armored vehicles and vehicles with small-caliber guns and machine guns mounted on them showed the greatest efficiency.

Under these conditions, light armored vehicles such as a wheeled tank can really show high efficiency. In addition, light armored vehicles are used there for conducting combat operations in the conditions of urban development, with attendant destruction and debris. Here the wheeled tank is easily defeated due to poor protection. Therefore, it is most advisable to use it in tandem with such armored vehicles as the "Terminator". The combination of maneuverability, powerful weapons and strong protection of these objects of armored vehicles will allow them to be effectively used in combat operations in such specific conditions.
  • Yuri Apukhtin
  • tankistador.ru, zonwar.ru, bastion-karpenko.ru, tankolet.ru
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  1. +15
    26 July 2018 07: 27
    With so many conventional tanks, we hardly need to spend money on the production of something else (it’s better to bring these from storage bases to mind and cheaper and much more efficient)
    1. +5
      26 July 2018 07: 44
      I completely agree. Let the author give at least one example of the successful use of CT against MBT.
      1. +1
        26 July 2018 17: 56
        Quote: Bad
        will give at least one example of the successful use of CT against MBT.

        The steppe part of Afghanistan, the flat part of the former Yugosl.
        1. 0
          27 July 2018 02: 21
          Well, let's get the layout .. where exactly which machines were used, what losses, etc ...
        2. 0
          30 September 2018 17: 56
          In Afghanistan, conventional tanks are almost useless.
      2. +2
        26 July 2018 18: 09
        Quote: Bad
        I completely agree. Let the author give at least one example of the successful use of CT against MBT.

        ==========
        Well so they and the tasks are TOTALLY OTHER !!!! The American "Stryker" in the version of the wheeled tank does NOT have in the ammunition armor-piercing shells !!!!! wassat
        1. +7
          26 July 2018 23: 03
          But South Africa's armored vehicles quite fought against the Angolan T-54!
      3. +8
        26 July 2018 20: 37
        Quote: Bad
        Let the author give at least one example of the successful use of CT against MBT

        I am not the author :) but there is still an example: the use of South African armored vehicles with heavy cannon weapons against the T-55/62. South African cars were armed with even weaker guns than medium tanks, but nonetheless achieved success.

        As for CT, etc. For example, CT would be useful for the Airborne Forces. I am not an opponent of the Airborne Forces, but the idea that the paratroopers “played up” with their obligatory requirement to ensure airborne landing of all their equipment (in conditions when the TA cannot transfer more than one division) because of which the security of their vehicles suffers, directly begs. And so it would be quite reasonable to equip the same airborne assault formations with airborne transport vehicles (CT and K-BMP) and increase their number due to paratrooper assault forces, and reorganize the latter into two or three brigades and use only as a strategic reserve.
        CT and the Marine Corps and SV would be suitable as a fire support vehicle and replace non-self-propelled and few mobile rapiers, respectively.
        You just need to understand that a CT is not a tank, namely a fire support vehicle or a PT weapon.
        1. 0
          11 October 2018 08: 08
          They also compared the ancient T-54, which was not even MBT, with Angolan blacks, against more modern wheeled tanks. Which have surveillance equipment and SLAs for a generation or two higher + foreign mercenaries.
      4. +3
        26 July 2018 23: 02
        In the south of Angola, the South African armored vehicles Eland Mk7 and Ratel FSV-90 armed with a 90-mm cannon were serious opponents for the Angolan T-54.
  2. +3
    26 July 2018 07: 46
    Useful machine
  3. +4
    26 July 2018 07: 53
    Somehow superficially, one could go deeper with drawings and diagrams.
  4. 0
    26 July 2018 09: 13
    gun 2S14 "Sting-C" 85 mm caliber.

    Are there any parameters for penetration with BPS? There the unitary shell and the "arrow" should be on the whole sleeve.
    1. +2
      26 July 2018 13: 43
      250mm at a distance of 2 kilometers
  5. 0
    26 July 2018 09: 18
    So for thought.
    Take the chassis with the transmission and the engine from the four-axle KamAZ-63501, book it, you can go to Paramount Kazakhstan Engineering - very close connections and add a tower from the Sprut SD, than not Rukikat. Self-propelled fire-fighting self-propelled guns.
    Pysy, I can wash the carpets in the evening, probably it will be possible to discuss with somnoy. As in anecdote, My brother and I are for firewood and we all go laughing
    1. +1
      26 July 2018 20: 42
      But will it withstand the impact? With a tower, armor and mediocre engine power (for such a heavy car) this "gankar" will be very noticeable, clumsy and unreliable. Still, the “Ruikat” was made both based on the survival of the machine after the detonation of anti-tank mines and on a breakthrough into the enemy’s rear, and taking into account that it would have to fight medium tanks with at least equal weapons.
      1. 0
        26 July 2018 20: 50
        Quote: Blackgrifon
        But will it withstand the impact? With a tower, armor and mediocre engine power (for such a heavy car) this "gankar" will be very noticeable, clumsy and unreliable. Still, “Ruikat” was made and based on the survival of the machine after the detonation of anti-tank mines and on a breakthrough into the rear of the enemy, and given that he would have to fight medium tanks with at least equal weapons

        These are the points Paramount, South Africa, can solve. And Kazakhstan Engineering has another problem, where to get everything and put it together.
        Barys for example.
        1. +2
          26 July 2018 22: 42
          It is doubtful. If it works out, it will rather be something like an art installation on a wheeled chassis, but not a CT. And with BA Barys, the example is unsuccessful because it is a full-fledged armored car and its chassis is not civilian (although I could be wrong). And then, doesn’t the version with 57 mm gun exist already?
      2. 0
        11 October 2018 08: 10
        And where are the medium tanks?
  6. +1
    26 July 2018 09: 19
    "cars with small-caliber guns and machine guns mounted on them."
    So, do something on the basis of an armored personnel carrier with a semi-automatic cannon of 76-105 mm feces and sell it to "Africa" ​​- drive all kinds of gangs there ...
    Even the S-60 on a truck in Syria shows itself well ...
  7. +5
    26 July 2018 10: 30
    A wheeled tank using ammunition MBT has the right to life for use in specific conditions due to the high maximum speed on the highway - the capture and retention of airfields, crossings, etc. It’s like a tachanka in a civil war, captured and held up to the approach of the main forces. In other combat situations - urban conditions, oncoming combat, the offensive on a well-trained defense, the use of a wheeled tank is problematic due to the low armor protection and therefore the production of such vehicles will be insignificant. Export potential is also small, as in addition to low armor protection, the CT also has insufficient cross-country ability on weakly bearing soils (swamp, sand), and the price will slightly differ from the MBT price due to the use of perfect KUO.
  8. +3
    26 July 2018 10: 34
    hi ... the heavy-duty combat vehicle Centauro was produced from 1991 to 2006. It was in service with the Italian and Spanish armies.
    CIO - Centauro II 120/105 MGS 8X8 Armored Vehicle ... Dec 9 2016 year
    ... That would be on the MKAD on such a drive laughing
    1. 0
      27 July 2018 11: 29
      And what didn’t suit our army in Centaurio ....?
  9. +2
    26 July 2018 10: 49
    A wheeled tank can easily and quickly be deployed under its own power over fairly large distances without drastically reducing its resource

    hi .... Almost in the subject, there was a mortar option, based on the same Centauro.
    AMC Mortar Carrier .... recourse
    The platform is equipped with a rifled semi-automatic 120-mm mortar capable of using the same ammunition that is commonly used in light infantry units to support medium-infantry fire.
    ...... Tests of self-propelled guns, here ... recourse
    31 Mar. 2017 g
  10. +1
    26 July 2018 11: 19
    It’s better to put the same “Chrysanthemum” on wheels, it would be more sense
  11. +1
    26 July 2018 11: 25
    About the very prospects of these tanks in which place to read the article?
    1. +5
      26 July 2018 11: 30
      But there are no combat wheeled vehicles weighing under thirty tons and prospects in Russia. Winter is an infection, there is no developed road network. Yes, and many rivers of all sizes. MTLB has a future.
      1. 0
        26 July 2018 20: 19
        Quote: demiurg
        But there are no combat wheeled vehicles weighing under thirty tons and prospects in Russia. Winter is an infection, there is no developed road network. Yes, and many rivers of all sizes. MTLB has a future.

        Absolutely!
  12. +2
    26 July 2018 11: 52
    Conflicts in the Middle East and especially in Syria have clarified a lot, where in the flat terrain, mobile groups armed with lightly armored vehicles and using vehicles with small caliber cannons and machine guns have shown the greatest efficiency.
    Under these conditions, light wheeled tank armored vehicles can really show high efficiency.

    Just the efficiency of light tanks will be low. The price is high because of the tank filling - communication systems, surveillance, SLA, heavy turret, etc. Maneuverability is low - in order to cover this very filling from small-caliber cannons, machine guns and RPGs, a lot of armor will be required. The rate of fire of a large-caliber gun is also low. As a result, in order to justify the investment, our unfortunate tank will have to fulfill the role of MBT. And then things will turn out to be even worse with him than with tracked light tanks, because he has not only weak armor, but also a vulnerable chassis.
    In general, if you do something with a cannon, but on wheels, then it should be self-propelled guns. And such self-propelled guns should be as cheap as possible, i.e. no extra stuffing. Something like an armored personnel carrier with a gun, and even without a tower. Only strengthen the muzzle and push the driver out of it as much as possible. You won’t even need a tower - if the gun is powerful enough, then it’s ok to shoot from it only along the hull.
  13. 0
    26 July 2018 11: 56
    Probably, it should be equipped with a 125-152 mm caliber howitzer. Then the relatively short barrel will not interfere, but the requirements for the chassis are simplified. To combat serious armored vehicles, you can use guided missiles, and you can work with a sniper with a short barrel.
  14. +3
    26 July 2018 12: 23
    An APC with a Sting-S cannon can now be seen in Kubinka, it looks like this
  15. +1
    26 July 2018 13: 22
    If only for sale in southern countries
  16. +2
    26 July 2018 14: 50
    What prospects can there be for what is not yet? Is there a prototype, or at least R&D, R&D? Just dream up on the theme of "cross a hedgehog and a hedgehog"?
  17. 0
    26 July 2018 15: 01
    I remember there was a BT wheeled-tracked tank. And ........ wink
  18. +2
    26 July 2018 15: 45
    The author was bustling, it is not clear - for what. If he wanted to uncover the theme of the "wheeled tank", he would open it to health, starting with the Ansaldo Armored Car (1925).

    Next, you can count a dozen samples, starting with the USA and the USSR, ending with Japan and South Africa.
    Regarding the wheeled tank, Kozma Prutkov clearly said: "Everyone necessarily benefits, used in its place. On the contrary: the exercises of the best dance master in chemistry are inappropriate; the advice of an experienced astronomer in dances is stupid."
    For South Africa or Indonesia, this option is relevant. With whom South Africa fight, except for the partisans. Same Indonesia. Or the Armed Forces of the Republic of Madagascar. Why do they need Abrams, and even more so Armata?
    1. 0
      26 July 2018 20: 44
      Quote: Curious
      With whom South Africa fight, except for the partisans.

      In fairness, before the local "perestroika," they fought with the enemy, who had modern tanks, and aircraft, and trained l / s (the same Cubans should not be discounted).
      1. 0
        26 July 2018 21: 45
        What kind of tanks were there? Chinese versions of the T-55 in Zimbabwe and T-54, T-55 and Mozambique?
        So in South Africa, Olifant is present.
  19. +2
    26 July 2018 19: 25
    A wheeled tank, in my opinion, is needed. And maybe not even floating (with a small armored volume of the Panar 90 type, but 6 ty.8 mi wheels). The convoy escort vehicle, infantry fire support ... Light weapons -2A70 + 2A72 + pktm. With a mass of 18-24 tons, reservation and patency will be sufficient. The same Panar 90 with a mass of 4-5 tons had 15 mm armor resistant to KPVT in the forehead point-blank. With the right approach, cross-country ability will be at the level of tracked vehicles. The main disadvantage of CT is the weakness of the wheeled chassis even from small-arms fire, here is a caterpillar mover. as they say taxis. But ... nevertheless, CT has prospects.
    1. +1
      26 July 2018 19: 30
      But the BTR-90 with 30 mm, coupled with the PCT, AGS 30 and PTKR cornet (and can swim) than it didn’t please ?? By the way, if you like 2A70 (for those who don’t know the 100mm gun) then there’s an option on the BTR-90 with her.
      1. +2
        26 July 2018 19: 40
        For me, the BTR-90 with a 45 mm cannon, the coaxial 12,7 mm coaxial machine gun and the 40 mm AG Balkan, naturally with the most advanced filling, remote detonation, non-contact detonation, a new SLA, and of course the four launchers of the latest modification ATGM, and voila , an excellent tool for the apocalypse barmaley in slippers.
        1. +3
          26 July 2018 19: 53
          Quote: merkava-2bet
          For me, the BTR-90 with a 45 mm cannon, the coaxial 12,7 mm coaxial machine gun and the 40 mm AG Balkan, naturally with the most advanced filling, remote detonation, non-contact detonation, a new SLA, and of course the four launchers of the latest modification ATGM, and voila , an excellent tool for the apocalypse barmaley in slippers.

          We have Barys, while in the form of a model with BM Baikal AU220M, such as an infantry fighting vehicle or an armored personnel carrier, it may not be as bad as a fire support vehicle if 57 shells become programmable.
        2. +2
          27 July 2018 02: 53
          I would prefer a BMP-3m with a kaz Arena E (the main weapon of the barmaley against the RPG-7 technique, just the arena will be the topic) 100 mm missile launcher, twin 30 mm cannon, pkt + on some machines there is still ags- beauty ! Patency is higher than that of a wheeled vehicle (a harp with a mass of 2-3 times less than the tank is a miracle, you can go where the tank gets stuck on soft soils) In general, I am convinced that in terms of price-performance ratio the BMP-3m is the best BMP in the world ( firepower, kaz, which are not put anywhere in NATO, because there is no brain to bring to mind, the ability to swim, most your same strikeers are deprived of such an opportunity, but let’s say in Indonesia you can transfer bmp so you can transfer from island to island, water cannons give a normal move afloat)
          1. +1
            27 July 2018 11: 31
            BMP-3 need to replace a 100mm gun with 125-152mm with low ballistics. ATGM 100mm is already frankly weak.
            1. -1
              1 August 2018 01: 26
              A 100 mm gun in such a small tower is quite normally equipped with shells, but a 125 mm separate-shell shot is already a headache. Now about the “weak” ptur, it’s tandem, the nose pierces 60 mm (initiates the detonation of the DZ, or breaks the screen of the spaced armor) main warhead -600 mm breaks through, 660 in total is perfectly fine in any projection against the Chinese Type 59 (they are still the vast majority in the PLA), in addition, since the Ptur is controlled, then at a distance of 4000m as you approach a couple of BMPs in the Kazakhstan steppe will burn a dozen types, ost The people are fleeing in horror. Personally, I believe that the main opponent of the Russian Federation is not NATO, but China. To listen to some, any weapon should be flashed at least abramically in the forehead, except for the USA (with which I don’t believe that there will be a war they’ll cherish themselves " beloved ") we have other potential opponents for these BMP-China with typiks, Turkey with M-60 (by the way those Leopards2a4 that they are armed with, have armor quite penetrated for this ATGM, which by the way the bassoons destroyed 10 Leopards in Syria and destroyed ) and against the Dagestan fighters BMP-3m during In general, the dream is to shoot a house where they are not only dug in with a high-explosive gun, but will also sew through a 30 mm twin gun, constantly throwing grenades from a course AGS into the yard, and at the expense of the Arena it’s not afraid of rpgshk.
              1. +1
                1 August 2018 08: 17
                And how many of our BMP-3s with the Arena are in service? "Taipa" will be alone, without infantry? The Chinese infantry now also have ATGMs. So in the best case, they will have time to damage a few pieces.
                1. -1
                  1 August 2018 08: 26
                  Our infantry fighting vehicles will also of course be infantry and take the battle from the tank trench (one tower sticks out, let them try to get in) But the presence of KAZ is really a disaster, there are not many of them (even the birds aren’t afraid of it)
      2. +1
        27 July 2018 11: 25
        Well, the BTR-90 isn’t produced, from the word at all. The development of the Soviet era, the code "Taxi", at first there was no engine, then money, then it was completely considered unnecessary to have such a barn.
    2. +1
      26 July 2018 19: 39
      For the steppes and semi-deserts, that’s it.
      Yes, yes, where there is no railway and AvD network of roads. For the quick transfer of anti-tank weapons, using virgin lands and country roads where car trawls will be useless, for the delivery of MBTs. For large open spaces where you can get lost by half.
    3. +3
      27 July 2018 00: 05
      About 15 mm Panar armor resistant to the KPVT machine gun point-blank, you got excited, the BS-41 bullet penetrates 21,2 mm armor at a distance of 800 meters, and takes into account that this is a machine gun, then a short burst of 3-5 rounds is guaranteed to turn it into scrap metal, muzzle energy of a machine gun bullet 31 kJ, we conclude. The NATO standard of protection against this machine gun is not less than 35-45 mm steel armor, as you see everyone wants to live.
      1. 0
        27 July 2018 02: 11
        for a 14.5mm machine gun there is a wide range of cartridges - our 32 mm pierce at 300 meters, and there is a Finnish sub-caliber awl-shaped cartridge for KPVT, so that pierces up to 50mm
    4. 0
      27 July 2018 03: 00
      just now drew attention to 15 mm armor - um you know a 12.7mm Russian sniper rifle A burglar pierces just 800 mm armor at a distance of 15 meters, so this protection is no longer quoted (even the Su-34 war veteran’s cabin thickness is 17mm and didn’t but titanium)
  20. +1
    27 July 2018 00: 04
    BTR90 of course a thing. But this armored personnel carrier is a voluminous car, so it’s big and therefore floating. By the way, all wheeled tanks cited as an example are similar to tanks. It was not for nothing that I remembered the Panar 90 - it is compact. You can EBR 75 as an example (but there is an extra volume - the rear driver). 2A70 is 2,3 Kg of TNT in the offs and the ability to bullet with a gun with a gun weight of 330 kg. Well, from 2a72, it’s clear. Brody can be overcome on the tank. Somewhere like that.
  21. 0
    27 July 2018 00: 11
    A wheeled tank is clearly a niche car. He will not be able to play on equal terms with MBT, the sole purpose is infantry fire support, and the only plus is high operational mobility. It took them in the neighboring village to support, for half an hour, and tama, without any fuss with conveyors and wrecked roads. In this sense, a tank gun is too much for him, a howitzer or a large mortar is enough. But we already have such a machine, Nona is called :)
    It only makes sense to strengthen her forehead so that she can play direct fire with fashionable nonche carts and keep autocannons at 14.5-23 mm even with her forehead.
    1. 0
      30 September 2018 18: 01
      14,5-23 mm will not be enough, it is advisable to keep 30 mm.
  22. +1
    27 July 2018 05: 26
    Quote: nikoliski
    I would prefer a BMP-3m with a kaz Arena E (the main weapon of the barmaley against the RPG-7 technique, just the arena will be the topic) 100 mm missile launcher, twin 30 mm cannon, pkt + on some machines there is still ags- beauty ! Patency is higher than that of a wheeled vehicle (a harp with a mass of 2-3 times less than the tank is a miracle, you can go where the tank gets stuck on soft soils) In general, I am convinced that in terms of price-performance ratio the BMP-3m is the best BMP in the world ( firepower, kaz, which are not put anywhere in NATO, because there is no brain to bring to mind, the ability to swim, most your same strikeers are deprived of such an opportunity, but let’s say in Indonesia you can transfer bmp so you can transfer from island to island, water cannons give a normal move afloat)

    Regarding that the BMP-3 is the best in the world, in which world, it already loses in many respects, first of all in terms of protection and armament. In the 80-90s, it was something exotic and powerful in terms of the "Troika" weapon complex, but no one took this path, you can not shove in something that is not stuffed. Abroad went by increasing the caliber of the main weapon and improving ammunition, FCS, ATGM, etc. Regarding the KAZ Arena, in another branch on the active protection of tanks, where there was a hot battle over the KAZ, I explained reasonably that KAZ Arena on a mobile platform is not effective, for stationary objects still
    maybe it will work but not on tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, for example, KAZ Meil ​​Raukh (Vetrovka) on which mobile or guided means of destroying approaching ATGMs are installed, and by the way the Americans are already buying it for at least two tank brigades and will probably produce it under license, and this is despite the extensive programs on KAZ that they have carried out since the time of King Gorokh, as well as participation in other foreign programs.
    1. +3
      27 July 2018 14: 22
      Quote: merkava-2bet
      Regarding that the BMP-3 is the best in the world, in which world, it already loses in many respects, first of all in protection and armament.
      Of course, the BMP-3 is not a Merkava or Namer, and, most importantly, the concept of this car is mobility, maneuverability and versatility. Israel is half the size of the Moscow region, you have no problems for forcing a multitude of water obstacles, the need for many kilometers of marches. In its class, the BMP-3 (like the BMD-4M) is indeed the best car in the world. As for the "heavy BMP", by and large this is nonsense, since such a machine will be weaker than the already created BMPT in terms of specialized fire support and general protection, and will lose a heavy armored carrier in terms of its transport function. To all, such a BMP loses the whole essence of its original concept, losing its universality, and by specialization yielding BMPT in armament, a heavy BTR in the transport component. Also, in addition to the geography of the use of technology, it is necessary to distinguish between technology created as a police, anti-guerrilla, for anti-terrorist operations and regional conflicts against terrorist terrorists, and technology against a full-fledged army, in the defense of a country like Russia, not Israel. There are also different types of combat, where one of the most difficult for any equipment is the battle in the city. Therefore, the ideal is seen as a “heavy BMP” tandem of BMPT and heavy armored personnel carriers, and the classic BMP is used for marching throws, forcing water obstacles, complementing and supporting heavy equipment, where there will be such a need.
    2. 0
      27 July 2018 20: 07
      do you even know how to read? I wrote on price-effectiveness, if I didn’t understand what this means, then for this money (about a million dollars) it’s impossible to buy a BMP better, I read how much all the new NATO BMPs cost there, the prices are sky-high about 5-7 million euros apiece (the price of two t-90 by the way) As for your "explanation" of the inefficiency of the Kaz Arena, it was completely redesigned under the letter E now meets all the requirements, in tests in Chechnya the tank with the Arena shot down 18 grenades from an RPG! and quietly left, this is your "inefficiency", your trophy once knocked down a grenade, and the second time wounded his- e officer, there is Jews shout that trophy imbalanced, no better, and why would? from the fact that you stole the Soviet Thrush?
  23. -2
    28 July 2018 01: 57
    Quote: nikoliski
    do you even know how to read? I wrote on price-effectiveness, if I didn’t understand what this means, then for this money (about a million dollars) it’s impossible to buy a BMP better, I read how much all the new NATO BMPs cost there, the prices are sky-high about 5-7 million euros apiece (the price of two t-90 by the way) As for your "explanation" of the inefficiency of the Kaz Arena, it was completely redesigned under the letter E now meets all the requirements, in tests in Chechnya the tank with the Arena shot down 18 grenades from an RPG! and quietly left, this is your "inefficiency", your trophy once knocked down a grenade, and the second time wounded his- e officer, there is Jews shout that trophy imbalanced, no better, and why would? from the fact that you stole the Soviet Thrush?

    I liked the phrase "during tests in Chechnya, a tank with an Arena shot down as many as 18 missiles", it was the crew from the penalty boxes, since they allowed themselves to be shot. And why a tank, and not an BMP-3, I heard such a story, and most importantly what kind of tank and facts in the studio, we all continue to believe in hunting tales, just as many still believe that the T-72 tank fought against the Merkava-1 tank and the Abrams tank in Lebanon in 1982.
    For you regarding the KAZ Meil ​​Ruach (Vetrovka), at least 12 officially successful missile intercepts in combat conditions, not training or test but combat ones, have been officially confirmed at the moment, you can see some of them on YouTube. And how many real missile intercepts in combat conditions showed KAZ Arena and Drozd-1,2 and the same Afghanit?
    And nobody didn’t steal KAZ Drozd, nobody needs it, in Israel there are enough specialists and engineers, Israel’s example has already adopted three (3) KAZs, Karl, can you imagine three, and how many you have, moreover, no less three systems are tested, including a laser one and for military aviation and combat helicopters. Not many details can be found on the Waronline website, it is Russian-speaking, so go for it.
    1. +2
      28 July 2018 04: 05
      Where were your engineers before the collapse of the Union? you were sitting on Western technology (in general, nothing of his own — even Galil is Kalashnikov), and as brains ran out of the USSR, then suddenly Jews began to make such breakthroughs in technology.
  24. -1
    28 July 2018 05: 48
    Quote: nikoliski
    Where were your engineers before the collapse of the Union? you were sitting on Western technology (in general, nothing of his own — even Galil is Kalashnikov), and as brains ran out of the USSR, then suddenly Jews began to make such breakthroughs in technology.

    So they were yours and, to be more precise, our engineers, and for the future, let’s get tired of rotten racism and thoroughly, already tired of it. Since the beginning of the 1960s, Israel has made a strategic decision to reduce its dependence on foreign equipment, primarily military, not everything was possible but much has been achieved in short.
    1. +3
      28 July 2018 07: 11
      Where is racism? Are Jews trying to prove their “chosenness” to everyone, and even in the next world I’m just lowering you to the sinful earth or are you used to thinking that Jews are the best in everything? upset you blacks anyway *** longer smile
      1. -1
        28 July 2018 07: 51
        Regarding the “chosen ones,” see the speech of ex-US President Barack Obama, where he said to the whole world that Americans are an exceptional nation in the world, there is reason to think.
        1. +1
          28 July 2018 08: 00
          ABOUT! about those "celestials" in general, a separate conversation
  25. -1
    28 July 2018 07: 37
    Quote: nikoliski
    Where is racism? Are Jews trying to prove their “chosenness” to everyone, and even in the next world I’m just lowering you to the sinful earth or are you used to thinking that Jews are the best in everything? upset you blacks anyway *** longer smile

    What I’m talking about is what you’ve returned to. And who is trying to prove your chosen name, first name, last name, address to the studio? You are very unsubstantiated, do not argue any of your statements, believe naive tales and rumors. And what led you to the idiom about blacks with their genitals.
  26. 0
    28 July 2018 09: 01
    And with whom and where will such a wundermobile fight? Cannon armored cars came up with another 1 MB. The French came up with their Panar Aboriginal with bows in Africa to drive. And as soon as they changed their flintlocks to Kalash, so all the Panars ended.
    1. 0
      28 July 2018 09: 10
      I agree that the tank should be a tank (that is, with armor), otherwise they riveted in front of the Patriotic BT-7, thinking about hitting cities, they say mobility decides speed, only all BTs were knocked out at 41 (and there were more of them, by the way, than all German tanks together taken on the eastern front) But armored tanks, as it turned out, can do things-in Africa, 2 tigers for two filled hundreds of English light tanks and at the end of the war in Germany alone one Jagdtiger destroyed 28 Shermans in one battle, just standing between houses so as not to go around and tanking with a 250 mm wheelhouse (nothing at that time mja such armor would not have struck even the last sample Faust cartridge maximum 200mm took)
    2. 0
      28 July 2018 17: 13
      For example, Japan implies coastal defense. The local Centaur is able to move along a developed system of roads at a speed of at least 100 km / h. It is planned to be applied on all islands except Hokkaido.
      1. 0
        28 July 2018 17: 33
        And then with whom will he fight?
        1. -1
          28 July 2018 19: 14
          When China will squeeze Primorye to itself, then the Japanese hope to chop off the smokers (well, or return, as you like)
          1. +1
            28 July 2018 19: 44
            Well, they can hope, but a wheeled tank will help them in this? Or does he, moving at a speed of 100 km / h (see the previous author), scare away all the birds, thereby hampering the action of aviation?
        2. 0
          29 July 2018 04: 23
          Japan, according to its constitution, is the most peace-loving country. And not going to fight with anyone. However, it has a serious army (self-defense forces), which is well equipped including BTT and others, aviation and a serious fleet (no less than 140 main types), which has gone far from our Pacific Fleet. And the Japanese centaur is really good and imprisoned for the local theater.
          1. 0
            29 July 2018 08: 08
            And the Japanese centaur is really good and imprisoned for the local theater.

            There is no such thing, there is efficiency, rationality and opportunity. The same thing was said about the Merkava tank, such as a shed, such as not a tank, but now all the tanks of the West, and Russia is also starting, are turning their tanks into sheds, hanging armor, equipment and weapons. Japan made a powerful revolution in its armored forces, over the past 25-30 years it has adopted two new tanks, completely new, without any roots with previous BTT models, at the moment only two countries have been able to, Japan and Israel. interesting, then let reads on this site about tanks Type 90 and Type 10, and compare.
            1. 0
              29 July 2018 12: 00
              There is such a thing! And from this they are calculated: "efficiency, rationality and opportunity." Although wait, wait, what is there according to your text ..... but it is clear. Sorry, but the conversation with you is futile. You have two nonsense in each line, I will not refute your writings.
            2. +1
              29 July 2018 15: 16
              The same was said about the Merkava tank, such as a shed, such as not a tank, but now all the tanks of the West, and Russia, too, are starting, turning their tanks into sheds, hanging armor, equipment and weapons


              In the "West" (if you count Germany as the West, of course), "tracked harnesses" have been conducted since the times of the Tiger.
              What's new here?
              Russia just went on a "different trajectory".
              And yes: Denmark is a prison; Abrams is a barn ...
              1. 0
                29 July 2018 22: 16
                Russia also sins, for example T-90> T-90MS, T-14: dimensions are only growing. Even the new layout of the T-14 has not reduced its dimensions in comparison with the T-90.
  27. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  28. 0
    29 July 2018 22: 44
    Quote: merkava-2bet
    Russia also sins, for example T-90> T-90MS, T-14: dimensions are only growing. Even the new layout of the T-14 has not reduced its dimensions in comparison with the T-90.

    For clarity

  29. 0
    25 August 2018 23: 34
    And remember about 64 units of armored vehicles, mostly tanks that Gorbachev and Yeltsin simply left in the countries of the former Warsaw Pact
  30. 0
    8 September 2018 10: 49
    In the reconnaissance battalion of the division (any) there must be a STRENGTHENED company of the STRENGTHENED wheeled tanks. They are faster and quieter, and this is very good for intelligence. significant. But their wheeled chassis should be similar to the heavy KAMAZ tractor shown at Army-2018, i.e. on a wheel arrangement of 8 by 8 or even 10 by 10, allow turning on the spot and moving obliquely. Weighing about 30 tons (floating) or up to 40 tons (non-floating). Mass is important as scouting and bridges need to be checked.
  31. 0
    18 September 2018 02: 17
    I’m already reading an article in VO signed by Apukhtin and still can’t understand how such a well-deserved uncle can write such superficial and ill-conceived articles? Maybe he doesn’t write? Or is he, but treats this matter as a burdensome hack?
  32. 0
    30 September 2018 18: 07
    A wheeled tank can be good as a convoy, patrol car, for counterguerrilla work or ambush operations ... In other cases, thick-armored vehicles are better.
    1. 0
      7 October 2019 21: 46
      As a highly maneuverable anti-tank gun, quickly moved to the desired location, in an anti-tank ambush or to destroy columns. And a "long arm" to support your infantry from long range. In the same way, BA-10 was used in WWII. So there is no need to reinvent the wheel, you just need to give it to literate people in "non-crooked" hands! )))

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