How is the repair of the Admiral Kuznetsov Tavkr. Why are photos published in Chinese Weibo?

Photos from the site where the heavy aircraft carrier "Admiral Kuznetsov" is being repaired are published online. We are talking about a branch of the Zvezdochka Ship Repair Center "35-th ship repair plant." It was there that repair work is carried out on the only Russian aircraft-carrying cruiser - which, as is known, not so long ago carried out a long hike to the shores of Syria.

It is noteworthy that the photographs from the Admiral Kuznetsov repair site appeared - not on the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, not on the specialized military-technical resources of the Russian Federation and not even on the Runet. The first publication was made by the Chinese user Weibo under the nickname Hua Lucheng Shi (花落 成 蚀).

In particular, in the photo you can see the process of unloading the steam shipboard boiler KVG-4. This boiler is from the project itself, which in 90s could have been finally closed due to problems with burning pipes. However, then the situation was corrected, which ultimately increased the steam output of the units.

As a boiler, it has been a species, although for such type of boilers, the external state is quite typical.

What will be replaced? There are suggestions that modernized boilers with pneumatics computer control mode. This is instead of what was created about half a century ago (with hydraulic automatics), and that is no longer being done today.

Other photos of the same user in Chinese Weibo:

Is it worth it to consider these photos as something secret - a separate question. By and large there is nothing that could be counted as "special secrecy", there is no photo material. And without the "Chinese user" photos "Kuzi" walk on the Internet. These could easily have been filmed by the employees of the ship repair plant itself with further distribution over the web.

Comments

[Vard]

As for pneumatic drives ... it's unlikely ... now there are very good electric drives with frequency converters ...

[kpd]

And what are they better in conditions of high humidity and high temperature?

[Mountain shooter]

In China, they really DO NOT LIKE the mention that Russia is able to do something better than China. And photos of sooty cauldrons - them a balm for the soul. How then they "drooled" photographs of the scratched side of our DRYING.

[bouncyhunter]

Here it is: simple envy?

[Vladimir 5]

Serious matters - to squeeze out from the Chinese memory the Russian elder brother and his superiority ...

[bouncyhunter]

This is familiar: information war and propaganda. The bad is remembered better than the good.

[Evgeny Strygin]

dividing into older and younger is idiocy. Especially in the case of China.

[DimerVladimer]

Quote: Vladimir 5

Serious matters - to squeeze out from the Chinese memory the Russian elder brother and his superiority ...

Throw enmity to kindle - this is bestiality!

In China, there are many monuments to the Russians - who helped in the struggle against the Japanese invaders - everyone is well-groomed and revered!

Of 3665 Soviet volunteers, pilots, and technicians, 214 remained forever in China in dozens of mass graves. The largest mass grave in Wuhan is just 29 people.

... Material taken from the site (C) http://davailaowai.ru. Read more at the link http://davailaowai.ru/pamyatnik-sovetskim-letchik
am-v-uxane-istoriya-i-adres /.

China fully complies with the intergovernmental agreement on the care of military graves, including the transfer of monuments and military graves.
In this country there are 79 military memorial sites, including 58 military graves and 21 monuments. The remains of 24779 Soviet and Russian military personnel who died in China since 1904 are buried in military graves, of which 17843 are buried as unknown.
Recently, restoration work at 5 military memorial sites has been completed.
14 memorial plates with the names of volunteer pilots were installed at the memorial complex to Soviet volunteer pilots in Wuhan, the monument and the mass grave of Soviet soldiers were repaired in Wansu Park in Heihe City, Heilongjiang Province.
At the expense of the funds of the Hero of Russia A. Kadyrov Russian Regional Public Fund, a memorial was restored to the fallen soldiers of the Fatherland on Qinyunjie Street in Dalian, Liaoning Province.
Thanks to the financial support of the Russian-Chinese Chamber of Commerce, the cemetery of the fallen heroes of the Soviet Army in the Anansi area of ​​Qiqihar was brought into proper condition.
The latest example of a reverent attitude of the Chinese to the memory of Soviet soldiers who died for the freedom and independence of their country is the ceremony of reburial of the remains of military adviser captain I.M. Babashkin and transfer to a new, more worthy place of the monument in the Xishan park of Guilin, Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region at the expense of the Chinese side.
Source: https://fishki.net/1674046-v-kitae-berezhno-hranj
at-pamjat-o-sovetskih-voinah.html © Fishki.net

[DimerVladimer]

Monument to the Fallen Soviet Soldiers in Port Arthur

it is the largest foreign cemetery in China, there rest approx. 20.000 of our compatriots (there was a reburial in one place) - mostly the dead soldiers of the Russo-Japanese War (defense of Port Arthur), the war with Japan in 1945 and the Korean War (as well as members of their families).

https://nosikot.livejournal.com/1620410.html

[Vedzmin]

To understand the trends, you need to know where this monument was moved from.

[Vedzmin]

Everything is not so beautiful and cloudless. The implementation of the intergovernmental agreement is largely the result of pressure from the Russian Foreign Ministry. The Chinese squint a lot in this matter, inserting different sticks into the wheels.

[Vedzmin]

There is such a trend in China. If possible, carefully lower the influence of the USSR on the development of post-war China

[Paranoid50]

Quote: bouncyhunter

simple envy? wink

Not easy - Chinese. Paul,

[g1v2]

Somehow I came across an article in the Chinese press. There, the author was perplexed and indignant that the Russian Federation did not buy Chinese drones. Then another, where the Chinese author demanded that Russia start buying ships from the Chinese. Plus, according to the Chinese press, it is noticeable that they are being promoted that their technologies are the best. Arms purchases from Russia are carefully circumvented. Well, besides c400 - they are recognized as a trendsetter. But at the same time, there is always an advertisement of some of their own air defense systems nearby.

[antivirus]

why in Chinese there were photos --- OUR EASY TO MAINTAIN THE PRC FOR OPPOSITION IN A QUIET OK AND IN GENERAL WITH THE USA. THAN YOUR OWN BLOOD IN THE IRON TO TINN - 2 and 3 aircraft carrier Shoigu requires

[g1v2]

Firstly, I saw these photos not in the Chinese press, but in ours a couple of days ago. It is possible that the Chinese reprinted them.
Secondly, why did you decide. what Shoigu some aircraft carriers require? The budget of the fleet is not rubber and there are a lot of problems for which it is worth spending. Aircraft carrier - from the category of luxury. That is, if you donate from your money, the fleet will thank you. And obviously no one wants to spend a lot of money on this when there are a lot of ships necessary for the fleet to be built. Well, if only for "fingerprints and prestige." But the MO certainly has no desire to throw such money.

[antivirus]

The budget of the fleet is not rubber and there are a lot of problems for which its
- because elephants do not fly
- it’s easier to look at the tigers fight - I read “wise” comments many times

[Moore]

Already dismantled on bmpd: the photos are screenshots from the webcam of the icebreaker "50 Years of Victory", which is standing tank in the tank with the Kuzey.

[Vedzmin]

In China, they are rather trying to smoothly bypass this topic, leveling their achievements.

[Yrec]

There is a likelihood that Kuzyu began to slowly disassemble for scrap. No noise. A trip to Syria has shown low efficiency amid high costs. It is unreasonably expensive to rivet ship planes and train crews for them. Kuzya is alone, but the costs of such an air wing are huge. In the near and medium term, we will not build aircraft carriers. Kuzya is retiring.

[loft79]

Unlikely. Money allocated like. To cut Kuzyu means to lose personnel, school, prestige. No, they won’t. The presence of a flag is always paid.

[WATCH_OFFICER]

I agree with you. Definitely not sent to rest. To have an aircraft-carrying ship, even an old one, is first and foremost a prestige ... I think that Kuznetsov will serve another 10 years, though by then he will not be replaced ...

[Yrec]

Everyone will laugh at such an "aircraft carrier". Already laughing.

[Sergey Medvedev]

Yeah. Syrian barmaleys especially laughed, and then bombs dropped on them by ridiculous grasshoppers - airplanes from Kuzi.

[loft79]

How do you rate the participation of the "funny" British aircraft carriers in the Falkland War? For lok. Kuzya’s conflict is quite possible, but in the global, don’t care what Kuzya or Ford)

[vredlo]

yeah they laugh, and then the Queen of England, who is not funny from herself, let's say things are not so smooth, but they can

[Normal ok]

Quote: WATCH_OFFICER

I agree with you. Definitely not sent to rest. To have an aircraft-carrying ship, even an old one, is first and foremost a prestige ... I think that Kuznetsov will serve another 10 years, though by then he will not be replaced ...

Purely for the "demonstration of the flag."

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Having an aircraft carrier, even an old one, is primarily prestige ...

No, he is not old ... What is outdated there ?! An aircraft carrier is primarily an aerodrome, and a little simpler than the United States, but planes take off from it, the ship’s defense means are modern and even have guided missile weapons (although this type of weapon is most likely superfluous for an aircraft carrier). Such ships do not go on their own, and for an aircraft carrier the presence of a missile defense is extra costs during construction and operation ...

I think it’s better to just have an aircraft carrier and another destroyer than all this in one ship ...

And as a whole, it’s a completely modern aircraft carrier, now it’s a substitute for boilers and maybe something else we will have a wonderful aircraft carrier. And the pilots will train and the adversary has something to threaten until it comes to new aircraft carriers ...

And most importantly, the experience that was and will be gained during the operation of this aircraft carrier will be necessarily taken into account in new similar ships, which will make them even more effective ...

[Zhelezyakin]

Kuzya is not an aircraft carrier! He is, aircraft carrier cruiser.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Zhelezyakin

Kuzya is not an aircraft carrier! He is, aircraft carrier cruiser

The title of the Tavkr “Kuznetsov” was given not so much in technical terms, but in military-political and ideological motives. “Kiev” - yes, they were XNUMX% TAVKRs, “Kuznetsov” is still an aircraft carrier, albeit an original one (it has strike weapons).

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

An aircraft carrier is primarily an airfield, but simpler than the United States, but planes take off from it

Only fighter / fighter-bombers. You can forget about AWACS and transport vehicles.
Moreover, unlike a full-fledged AB, at 11435 take-off with a full mass is possible from only one starting position (No. 3). This position is located in the middle of the corner deck (that is, simultaneous landing is impossible), and the take-off trajectory runs through position No. 2.
Classic AB has the ability to launch a plane with a full mass from any of 4 starting positions. In this case, two starting positions are located outside the corner deck - that is, it is possible to simultaneously take off and land operations. In addition, not one take-off path passes through another starting position (pairwise approach is only on the final section, but it does not interfere with the preparation of machines for take-off at the very beginning of the path).

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

the ship’s defense facilities are quite modern and there are even guided missiles

It would be better if the Navy exchanged PU KR for a more spacious hangar.

[abc_alex]

. It would be better if the Navy exchanged PU KR for a more spacious hangar.

Why would it be better? In its current form, Kuzya can guaranteely send almost 9 tons of explosives to enemy ships with a supersonic express train with the highest probability of successful delivery. At a distance of 500 km. Or by the same train send about 6 megatons of heat and light to targets on the shore. How many planes does he need to add to achieve a similar result with an air wing? Another fifty?
Why doesn't it come to many that TAVKRs simply implement shock functions differently? Think for yourself why to shift the shock functions on airplanes, if this is perfectly implemented by missiles? Because it is so with the staff? Or because it is beautiful? :)

[Dart2027]

Quote: abc_alex

Think for yourself why to shift the shock functions on airplanes, if this is perfectly implemented by missiles?

Probably because then it is not clear why aircraft are needed at all.

[abc_alex]

Air defense reconnaissance. The interception of aircraft AUG at distant frontiers, which do not finish missiles.

[Dart2027]

Quote: abc_alex

at far borders, where missiles are not finished off.

But to strike with missiles at distant frontiers, where missiles cannot be reached?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: abc_alex

Why would it be better? In its current form, Kuzya can guaranteedly send almost 9 tons of explosives to enemy ships with a supersonic express train with the highest probability of successful delivery. At a distance of 500 km.

To do this, he still needs to approach these 500 km. Because for the American AUG back in the 80s, 600 miles were considered the standard long-range distance for hitting an airborne air group.
Moreover, a strike by “Granites” is possible only if there is a normally functioning satellite reconnaissance and target designation system, because it is too naive to rely on RC planes and helicopters for an AUG attack.

Quote: abc_alex

How many planes does he need to add to achieve a similar result with an air wing? Another fifty?

Why add cars? You can modify the deck cars under the CD with SBC.

Quote: abc_alex

Why doesn't it come to many that TAVKRs simply implement shock functions differently? Think for yourself why to shift the shock functions on airplanes, if this is perfectly implemented by missiles?

Because 95% of the time TAVKR drags these KR dead weight - and due to the number of avikaryl. And in those 5% when the TAVKR will need to apply them, he will need to somehow go over 600 km in the radius of the USA AUG drums to reach the launch range. And somehow discover this very AUG, having on board at best a helicopter AWACS.
If you want to strike KR - build RKR, the displacement of which with a comparable salvo is much less. But do not arrange "Mur and Meriliz" from an aircraft carrier, cutting its main armament in the name of auxiliary. The connection in the composition of the RRC + AB + escort has much greater stability than the connection with one TAVKR - at least due to the larger air group AB covering the connection.

[abc_alex]

To do this, he still needs to approach these 500 km. Because for the American AUG back in the 80s, the standard long range for hitting an airborne air group was considered 600 miles.

Where did you read this? 600 miles - or 1200 km, an F-18 can only fly one way. Or did you mean other miles? Can you not show off, but write in kilometers?
Further, what is difficult to approach in AUG for 500 km? Or is it assumed that you have notified the command of the enemy group of your arrival in advance and sent you all deck aircraft to meet you? Or that you, as a liberal, went there alone against all? In the end, you have a certain number of MiG-29 and Su-33 in the hangars that can easily meet the enemy’s planes at the turn of these 500 km. Of course, in battle they will not bring down all the attackers, but it is likely that the rest will simply return to the ship. After all, charged with "Harpoons" and Super Horn bombs are somewhat less suitable for aerial combat than the Su-33.
In addition, if you are not a complete liberal, you will organize a “Hokai hunt” in advance, involving, for example, MiG-31 links with anti-radar missiles or with standard long-range missiles. So to discern when you will come from, AUG will most likely be simply nothing.
That is, if you are not a complete liberal :)

Moreover, a strike by “Granites” is possible only if there is a normally functioning satellite reconnaissance and target designation system, because it is too naive to rely on RC planes and helicopters for an AUG attack.

In the same way, the action of the AUG air wing is possible only if there is a normally functioning satellite reconnaissance system and deck-based AWAC. Without them, no one will fly anywhere. To expect that deck-based and other flying AWACS will shine unobstructedly with half-sky radars, too, you know, is not too realistic.

Because 95% of the time TAVKR drags these KR dead weight - and due to the number of avikaryl. And in those 5% when the TAVKR will need to apply them, he will need to somehow go over 600 km in the radius of the USA AUG drums to reach the launch range. And somehow discover this very AUG, having on board at best a helicopter AWACS.

Ha! So the Nimitz also operates only 28 cars on the upper deck. The rest of the aircraft carries dead weight. By the way, to the detriment of missile weapons, which does not have :)
With flying AWACS - a problem, here you are right. But having disarmed “Kuznetsov” it cannot be solved. There are simply no aircraft AWACS. You can’t even restore the Yak-44 - there are no engines. So, you need to solve the problem due to satellite constellation.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: abc_alex

Or because it is beautiful? :)

or because it’s so right) You’ll make the aircraft carrier chase submarines like a corvette or destroyer. An aircraft carrier is a floating airfield, and its most important task is to ensure the most efficient operation of aviation. Everything else for him is secondary, this is the lot of escort ships. Keep in mind that the air group needs not only hangars, but also workshops, spare parts warehouses, fuel, ammunition for any kind of autonomous action. This is all - volumes and mass. A ship is not a land aerodrome, every meter counts, and spending huge spaces under attack missiles is impermissible luxury and damage to the ship in terms of its value as an aircraft carrier

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Gregory_45

or because it’s so right) You’ll make the aircraft carrier chase submarines like a corvette or destroyer. An aircraft carrier is a floating airfield, and its most important task is to ensure the most efficient operation of aviation. Everything else for him is secondary, this is the lot of escort ships.

Ahem ... chasing every submarine in order to hit it with airborne armament of the PLO AB certainly will not. But here, providing PLO on the KOH transition route, at the PLO border, or in a given area, until recently was one of the typical tasks of the US CGS. This was done as part of the solution to the main task of the first stage of the great war in Europe - the fast and safe delivery of reserves and supplies from the United States to Europe via the Atlantic. And for this it was necessary at all costs to neutralize the Soviet submarine fleet.
It was planned to involve not only AB allies in NATO and all UDCs and old AB PLOs, but even large ABs, for which anti-submarine air wings were formed.
But in the main, you are right - even the AV PLO solves the tasks with the forces of its air group. Which is his main weapon.
Moreover, it is unacceptable to reduce the size of the AB air group due to the deployment of other types of weapons, if only because the AB is the only ship in the ASG that can carry aircraft. KR, SAM and PLUR can carry escort ships. But airplanes are only AB. But the strength of AUG is determined precisely by airplanes.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Alexey RA

providing PLO on the KOH transition route, at the PLO boundary, or in a given area has recently been one of the typical tasks of the USA AUG

exactly AUGAnd not aircraft carrier. Air defense support is assigned to aviation and escort ships, the aircraft carrier itself, as a ship (unlike domestic helicopter carriers like Moscow or TAVKR), has neither a powerful hull nor means of destruction of submarines - the same PLUR) AB again acts as a floating airfield.
Actually, even this refinement did not make much sense, because everything is clear from the context of your comment. In this case, our opinions strongly agree)

[abc_alex]

This is in the US Navy concept. They do not carry Eminets anti-ship weapons, so now, too, to launch rockets from our ships? :) There is a Russian fleet. He has the function of attacking ships assigned to the RCC. If you re-sharpen it under the AUG’s state concept, you need to build the entire fleet from scratch. And neither Russia nor the United States can maintain a fleet that will be both missile and aircraft carrier.

[ver_]

... those frames that were made by * Kuzyu * have long been gone ..

[loft79]

Quote: ver_

..the staff

Meant of pilots and sailors.

[Vladimir 5]

The main thing here is to support the pants so that the backside is not bare, and you will begin to look at the flag of the aircraft carrier raised. it’s as if naked in the ports the flag will have to be given honor ...

[MPN]

Quote: Yrec

There is a likelihood that Kuzyu began to slowly disassemble for scrap.

As I understand it, they begin to dispose of boilers, and the armament will come later, if anyone suddenly needs to?

[Yrec]

The question is, did the boilers before going to Syria or after? If before, then do not send them to the scrap. And if after, then while Kuzya has not been written off.

[figwam]

Yrec

New boilers for Kuznetsov have long been manufactured and shipped last year for replacement.

And the Chinese are spying on everyone, of course they are interested in what kind of modernization work we are doing.

[donavi49]

And for myself too.

Here 956 already finish - with a detailed calculation of everything.

[donavi49]

Recently merged 052E - in construction (enhanced version of 052D - which the PLA Navy refused in favor of 055). Now everyone is wondering - where? To Pakistan? Or another friend? Or in the trial operation of the PLA?

14-052D is also being prepared to be lowered. This is the first 052D mod + 5 meters in length (mainly to the helipad) and other changes.

[yehat]

it seems like China is in a hurry to form a group of 5-7 URO cruisers for its strategic goals. As I understand it, for targeting air defense away from the coast and ensuring the operation of the AUG, as well as for working as flagships and headquarters, as the Americans use the old URA cruisers.

[Aristarkh Lyudvigovich]

New boilers for the aircraft carrier cruiser "Admiral Kuznetsov". (in white package)

[Yrec]

Did you make boilers before going to Syria?

[hrych]

Quote: Yrec

There is a possibility that Kuzyu began to slowly disassemble for scrap

There is a possibility that you are a young man trolling. And if our pilots are still training right now and deck aircraft are working on Nitka, he says that you are a young man who also sins with logic. Provocations, throws and trolling need to be done better, your curators will fire you for the discrepancy

[Yrec]

The maintenance of one ancient pre-aircraft carrier and 2 dozen carrier-based aircraft with crews, Thread and other facilities is not justified from an economic or military point of view. Thread, wherever it went. With a distant sight, it can be used slowly, chasing on it crews on ordinary aircraft. And Kuzyu will be repaired for a long time and, most likely, will not be repaired. It makes no sense; his concept is dead. And you, if you declared yourself a "troll hunter", so respect the opinions of others - do not take your truth in the last resort. This is the lot of idiots.

[The Siberian barber]

Quote: Yrec

The maintenance of one ancient pre-aircraft carrier and 2 dozen carrier-based aircraft with crews, Thread and other facilities is not justified from an economic or military point of view. Thread, wherever it went. With a distant sight, it can be used slowly, chasing on it crews on ordinary aircraft. And Kuzyu will be repaired for a long time and, most likely, will not be repaired. It makes no sense; his concept is dead. And you, if you declared yourself a "troll hunter", so respect the opinions of others - do not take your truth in the last resort. This is the lot of idiots.

Do you think that when creating / building / maintaining weapons, the main criterion is the economic justification?
Then, in your opinion, you should abandon the Army and Navy, for it is expensive!)))

[Imobile]

You believe that when creating / building / maintaining weapons, the main criterion is economic justification?

This is the first battle, the most important. Usually it determines the further course of the war.

[The Siberian barber]

Undoubtedly! But guided by a purely economic approach is also wrong!
And then ... What does the concept of dead mean ??)) (previous post)
Yes, in Syria, it was not needed, rather, as a strike unit. But besides striking at ground targets, there are other tasks)))
Ah .. Well, I completely forgot - the boats can shoot back, right at the pier

[antivirus]

Ah .. Well, I completely forgot - the boats can shoot back, right at the pier

-It's easier to carry containers around the world to "Maersk"

[Ivanchester]

How can one forget this - this is the mantra of all local flotophobes! )))

[Yrec]

Read to the end: "and military." You can recall “Huud”, “Bismarck”, “Tirpitz”. Did they fight a lot? What military effect? Yes, small children will come down. Barmaleev too. Isn't this a scarecrow expensive? Weapons must be effective above all. If it is expensive and inefficient - its place in a landfill.

[The Siberian barber]

"Bismarck", with a fellow, died due to tactics of use, probably ...
Without 1st rank ships, Russia will slide into the category of minor naval powers.
If you want, then my post, you can consider it a slogan, even))
With joy, I would have talked yet, but deeds ... Have a nice day!

[Vladimir 5]

For the coming decades, the fate of the dreadnoughts promises aircraft carriers. Do not be late to submit to the museum the one and only (for high spending and low efficiency) our beloved TAKR. But to demonstrate the flag, you can’t do anything - even lay the last pants on and refuse the necessary ships .. The sea power needs reasons and possibilities, for the next 50 years, they will not be seen and marked for the Russian Federation ... This is how the story with TAKR looks. ..

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Yrec

You can recall “Huud”, “Bismarck”, “Tirpitz”. Did they fight a lot? What military effect?

lot. And the effect was considerable. "Hood" before his death managed to excel, however, according to recent allies - the French. This is not counting the demonstration of the flag before the war and the escort of convoys with its beginning. “Bismarck” exchanged himself for “Hood” and the fallen “Welsh”, “Tirpitz” kept the British at bay for half the war, forcing those, in turn, to keep half the heavy fleet of the Metropolis in the waters of the Atlantic, and not to steal it with a clear conscience for the Pacific and Indian oceans, where it would be very useful. See wider)

[antivirus]

1 saber = 100% efficiency - 100 goals “Whack” and efficiency above Kuzi (only barley and a bath + allowance for the loss of the breadwinner)

[vredlo]

Well, a German couple drank so much blood in one existence, both shaved and us (insolent because they justified their behavior with the northern convoys by the presence of a German in the fjords)

[demiurg]

Do Americans know that they have more than half of the ancient aircraft carriers? Google the timing of commissioning Nimitsev.
A full-fledged wing of Kuznetsov can have about fifty aircraft, of which 3 dozen fighters.
Do not confuse soft with warm. The fact that now there is no full-fledged air wing is not a cause but a consequence.
That AWACS and electronic warfare is not full, this is a problem.

[Imobile]

That AWACS and electronic warfare is not full, this is a problem.

This is also a consequence of the lag in microelectronics. The lag in microelectronics is a consequence of inefficient economic policies. Ineffective economic policies are a consequence of the wrong course. So you can get to the reasons. I have finished at the age of 17, but I think 17 is a consequence. The question is how to break this causal relationship

[demiurg]

That is, do you think that if Russia buys a radar from Raytheon or BAE, then the carrier for it will be ready in a month? And all the MiG-39 KUB equipment has been tested for compatibility with electronic warheads?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Imobile

This is also a consequence of the lag in microelectronics.

nonsense, sorry. There is no AWACS plane because it (at least the Hokkai analogue) simply cannot fly without catapults. EW - a different matter, who interferes with hanging containers? Or, you want to say, they are not for land aircraft, do we buy in Israel?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Imobile

This is also a consequence of the lag in microelectronics.

This is a consequence of the perversity of the original concept of non-catapult AB. There is no catapult - there is no full-fledged AWAC, whatever microelectronics are.
Moreover, the designers initially offered to put two and then one catapult on the future Riga - for AWACS and to launch fighters with full mass regardless of the speed of the ship, wind direction, etc. But a couple well known to fleet enthusiasts cut down all the work on the catapult at the stage of factory tests - and 11435 was left only with a springboard. The catapult managed to break through only at 11437.

[yehat]

a full-fledged wing is created not only by number, but also by quality.
without heavier AWACS aircraft, transports, and other aircraft wings, it will never be complete, and due to the springboard scheme 40+ ton cars on Kuznetsovo simply will not appear.
therefore, the wing originally with trimmed functions and this can not be changed.

[abc_alex]

. without heavier AWACS aircraft, transports and other aircraft wings will never be complete, and due to the springboard scheme 40+ ton cars on Kuznetsovo simply will not appear.

And why did you get the idea that LA Aircraft Drone can only be an airplane and even heavier than 40 tons? Because it is so in the USA? :)
For starters, a non-catapult take-off of a heavy machine is possible, for example, on disposable solid fuel boosters.
But not necessarily AWAC is a plane. Why not tiltrotor? Not a helicopter? Or not a link of machines connected to each other by a digital communication line, as is done with the MiG-31? By the way, the AWACS functions are partially implemented on the Su-30, though for the level of the fighter link. After all, why should radio intelligence be conducted at all according to the archaic Hokai scheme? You thought what would happen if a technologically equal adversary set out to burn the hell-luminous chandeliers to hell and fire towards them, for example, barrage anti-radar interceptor missiles. We have just one such on the approach with unlimited range. :)
Those who talk about the archaic concept of the TAVKR can think, but is the aircraft carrier concept much more outdated?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: abc_alex

And why did you get the idea that LA Aircraft Drone can only be an airplane and even heavier than 40 tons?

because you need a powerful radar with a range of at least higher than the radius of action of carrier-based fighter and strike aircraft of the enemy. Otherwise, the sense of him is a little more than no

Quote: abc_alex

But not necessarily AWAC is a plane. Why not tiltrotor? Not a helicopter?

for the above reason. Just at Kuznetsovo, the Ka-31 helicopter performs the functions of AWACS, and it’s possible inferior specialized aircraft. On this already ate a bag of bitter radish, and we, and the British

Quote: abc_alex

After all, why should radio intelligence be conducted at all according to the archaic Hokai scheme?

Radio intelligence is conducted in many directions. Aircraft AWACS - this is the "personal property" of the aircraft carrier, its own "eyes." There are other ways besides her, but they are complementary, but not mutually exclusive.

Quote: abc_alex

and will launch towards the AUG, for example, barrage anti-radar interceptor missiles. We have just one such on the approach with unlimited range

You mixed something up. Cruise tactical and anti-radar missiles are slightly different things. About like the X-31 and the Tomahawk

[yehat]

I did not say anything about archaic tavkr, because I do not know. I say limiting its use. As for accelerators, etc., the lack of a catapult is more serious than it seems. The first is overload. The catapult smears them, which makes it possible to make less durable aircraft with a larger payload and it is easier for them to land. And the payload is the power of the equipment and the range, the duration of the flight. And this significantly expands the capabilities of the air group. Refueling in the air begins to be effective. A scheme like TAVKR, in fact, provides only near air cover.

[demiurg]

Firstly, the acceleration on the catapult is higher. It is shorter than the long position two times, and the speeds are comparable.
And secondly. There are enough short positions for the eyes to fly to intercept.
And thirdly, all of a sudden, with the maximum mass, the hornets from the catapult of the Nimitans do not take off.
And in the fourth, from the third position, the su-33 took off with the maximum possible weight.
I am the son of a sailor and a pilot, on Kuznetsovo not everything is as clear as it seems.

[yehat]

son of a sailor and pilot

uh, unconventional marriage?
just have a sea pilot, but a sailor and a pilot is something else.

[demiurg]

Quote: yehat

uh, unconventional marriage?

Eeee, sarcasm.

[yehat]

rather a hint to express your thoughts more clearly

[Alexey RA]

Quote: demiurg

Firstly, the acceleration on the catapult is higher. It is shorter than the long position two times, and the speeds are comparable.

But on the catapult there is no vertical component of acceleration, which on the springboard can reach 6g. And the pilot should not manually keep the car on the take-off path.

Quote: demiurg

And secondly. There are enough short positions for the eyes to fly to intercept.

2 starting positions on TAVKR against 4 on AB.

[demiurg]

1. Something is doubtful to get 6g on the Kuznetsov ramp.
2. Of which two are located on the landing deck, and cannot be occupied permanently.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: demiurg

2. Of which two are located on the landing deck, and cannot be occupied permanently.

Like the third launch at 11435 - the only position that allows take-off with full weight.
And the classic AB always has 2 positions for take-off with full weight, located outside the corner deck and does not interfere with landing.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: Alexey RA

But on the catapult there is no vertical component of acceleration

it is more a minus than a plus. A loaded car, when leaving the catapult, “falls through” a little, which again requires the actions of the pilot to fend off the moment. The catapult is also not sinless, although it is more advantageous in terms of the totality of indicators in relation to all other methods of launch.

Quote: Alexey RA

2 starting positions on TAVKR against 4 on AB

It depends on which AB. If you take the "Frenchman", then he has 2 starting positions, and when using them, simultaneous landing operations is impossible. The “de Gaulle” situation is even worse than that of “Kuznetsov” (this one can even use positions No. 1 or No. 2, or both at once), if you take “Nimitz” or “Ford” - then everything is much more more competent, but the ship, so to speak, is bigger

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Gregory_45

A loaded car, when leaving the catapult, “falls through” a little, which again requires the actions of the pilot to fend off the moment.

There is such a moment. But there is also this “peck” during the springboard takeoff (it’s enough to see how Sushki falls off the edge of the springboard ... then to reappear above it).

Quote: Gregory_45

If you take the "Frenchman", then he has 2 starting positions, and when using them, simultaneous landing operations is impossible.

Duc ... it all comes down to size and displacement. To put the catapults outside the landing deck you need to have a minimum of 60 tons:

Yes, this could be AB. If it weren’t for the instructions of the well-known couple: rely on the basing of KVVP, throw out the catapults, the displacement limit is no more than 10000 tons more than that of 11434.

[NN52]

Yrec

Nobody will respect your "personal and incompetent" opinion here .. Do not try ..
And the concept is not for you to tell, and not for me ..
And have respect, no one in the army calls Kuznetsov such a diminutive word as you ..

[Setrac]

Quote: Yrec

The maintenance of one ancient pre-aircraft carrier and 2 dozen carrier-based aircraft with crews

In what place is he a "pre-carrier"? And who then has a "pre-carrier"? Maybe the British? Or the French? Or the Chinese? Or maybe the Indians with the Brazilians?

[yehat]

Normal aircraft carriers are now only in the United States.
French, English, Chinese, Indian and others are unreliable and often provide much less service to the air group.
And I say this not because I am a fan of the United States, but because they have accumulated a lot of experience in operating and technical solutions on aviks. And serial carriers are operated, where most of the technical problems are solved.

[Setrac]

Quote: yehat

Normal aircraft carriers are now only in the United States.

That is, you agree that the Russian aircraft carrier is quite at the level?

[yehat]

not. I agree that no one except the United States has so much money to make a series of good Aviks and actively exploit.
Therefore, these aviks have less favorable conditions for basing an air group.
And most generally only have avics for the poor - with a springboard or vertical.

[hrych]

Let's just say that the concept is very, very correct, it’s a Self-sufficient Cruiser, the presence of strike weapons, now it will certainly be Calibro-Onyxo-Zircons, but in the northern latitudes, where there is often bad weather, a stupidly floating airfield is not the right concept, and Kuzya is ready to carry out tactical and strategic issues even without an air wing, with great success, now the Kyrgyz Republic flies a couple of thousand kilometers, and if they put on a laser Peresvet and let them launch Burevestnik from the deck, then his role as a missile multi-purpose cruiser will only increase. Now with the new Secrets of Uncle Vova, all the concepts of using weapons are reformatted, and fundamentally.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: hrych

the concept is very, very correct, it is a Self-sufficient Cruiser

yeah, put another C-400 on it, and there will be a Lafa in general) Who needs a ship with three planes studded with missiles? What kind of frankensten did you come up with? By the way, the insolvency of the concept of an aircraft carrier-cruiser was proved as far back as World War II (“Lady Lex”, recall). Apparently, history teaches only that which teaches nothing

Quote: hrych

Now it will certainly be Calibro-Onyxo-Zircons

about dreams, dreams ..) There will not be them on Kuznetsovo. Never

Quote: hrych

Kuzya is ready to carry out tactical and strategic issues even without an air wing with great success

here already in the comments gave a competent answer, why can not. But then again, fantasy and dreams are our ffso .. Then build RKR, it will be much cheaper. What for planes in general?

Quote: hrych

let them launch from the deck Petrel

so what there, immediately put "Satan" and "Sarmatian", pieces of 10 each, what are the little things then? If you sculpt - then wunderwafl))
Py Sy. And so that as a submarine could sink - then finally your nishtyak will be))

[hrych]

Firstly, there are already 12 launchers on the Kuz, under the giant Granite and in these launchers anything will enter, for the length of the Granite is 10 meters and the width is almost 900 mm. The caliber, with its 6-8 meters long and 533 mm wide, will sink in PU Granita, like a pencil in a glass. That's how some bloggers are morally obsolete when they cite World War II as an example. still throwing cool phrases such as "concept", "insolvency", etc. Still rowing galleys, give an example with your concept Were anti-ship cruise missiles in WWII? Were there guidance and tracking satellites in the WWII like the Lian system and GLONASS-type positioning? Were ZGRLS type Wave and Container? I'm not talking about nuclear weapons. When you answer this question, then soberly think about the piston planes of the American troughs, but remember the battleships. Not only that, our fleet strategists in the USSR must have been wiser, more educated, and more knowledgeable, since they took Krechet as a basis. According to the S-400, there will certainly be a naval option, of course, the over-horizon missile of the complex, which does not require target illumination, can be stupidly installed in launchers, as available for strike weapons, it can also be placed in additional devices, there is a fire engine on duty on the deck, you can and put the whole complex, it is mobile and compact, for your information, and short-range air defense systems like the Dagger on Kuz are present in large numbers. Therefore, the head of some bloggers is not keeping pace with our engineers. Nowadays, versatility, modularity and external target designation are in honor. But more universal than Krechet, an attack ship simply does not exist in nature, and I repeat, its wing is not the main thing. I repeat that in the northern latitudes where it is attributed, flying weather is rare in the year and it is impractical to have a stupid trough there in the north. American aircraft carriers do not sail there, but why? Yes, because. And Kuzya has both anti-aircraft defense, air defense, and strike weapons, which will undoubtedly be strategic in the form of the Kyrgyz Republic, and yet has an air wing with fighters and helicopters. Therefore, when you want to criticize Kuzyu or his Creators, then if you please Create something like that, and then bay from the couch

[Grigory_45]

Quote: hrych

when they give an example of World War II

it was nice to understand what they’re giving you, i.e. to hear the interlocutor and not only yourself deeply beloved and solely respected. It was World War II that proved the cruelty of the concept of an aircraft carrier cruiser and the Americans never returned to it, and their experience in building and using the AB is much more than ours. Sometimes you need to learn from the enemy, and not break through the stone walls with your head. By the way, domestic shipbuilders later came to the same conclusion that they needed a clean AB, and the atomic Ulyanovsk of project 1143.7 was to become the embodiment of that. Only the collapse of the country did not allow to complete the already laid ship
So

Quote: hrych

bay from the couch

the rest is without comment, because initially delirium

[hrych]

Quote: Gregory_45

and the embodiment of this was to be the atomic Ulyanovsk project 1143.7.

Zdraste Ulyanovsk had to carry 12 as well as Krechet, anti-ship missiles Granit, and also thought about increasing them to 16 pieces. The only thing is that the YaSU, well, the displacement is greater than the Gyrfalcon, and the CONCEPT is the same and nothing else Its PLO and air defense, the same Dagger and Dagger, as on the Gyrfalcon. Well, a couple of steam catapults, actually the whole difference.

Quote: Gregory_45

And then goof off again

Now it’s clear who got the goofy

Quote: Gregory_45

Rockets can be shoved on escort ships

You would have to shove everything. The cruiser, because the cruiser, because he does not need an escort. And unlike the whole AUG, around the American trough, the Cruiser is ready to complete all the tasks himself. And one Cruiser carrier, cheaper than the whole AUG definitely, since you are going to the bookkeepers, consider it.

Quote: Gregory_45

It is aviation that is the main weapon of the AB, and this is the value of AB for ship connection

I repeat for the third time, our Kuzya of the northern home registry, there most of the time of the year for the wing is vacation. Also the AUG of the USA for colonialism, for their system and doctrine of life. The West has no resources, they must be robbed in third countries. We have our own resources and firmament. We are the continental power of the Heartland, they are the maritime Rimland. Read the doctrines and understand. Therefore, we need so, and they are such. And the apostasy here is inappropriate, but with the Petrel and Poseidon, in general, the AUG is just a walking victim. Clear?

[Alexey RA]

Quote: hrych

The cruiser, because the cruiser, because he does not need an escort.

Yeah ... on "Abukir", "Hoge" and "Cressi" also thought so. And on the "Koreans" too.
I’m afraid that your statement was 100 years late. The armament of our TAVKR is suitable only for self-defense as part of a compound - for it is focused exclusively on the gunned missiles of the anti-ship missiles and torpedoes in the near zone of the ship.

Quote: hrych

And one Cruiser carrier, cheaper than the whole AUG definitely, since you are going to the bookkeepers, consider it.

The use of TAVKR "alone" is the shortest way to the bottom. In this case, no matter how much it costs, it will still cost more than AUG. Because AUG performs tasks, but a lonely TAVKR does not.

Quote: hrych

I repeat for the third time, our Kuzya of the northern home registry, there most of the time of the year for the wing is vacation.

Do you propose using TAVKR as the RKR? To drive a 60000-ton colossus, which is even capable of self-defense with limited ability, instead of a 25000-ton RRC with a full set of self-defense and defense units? A great solution is to use an electron microscope to drive piles.
And the stories about the impossibility of using Avikryl in high latitudes are for the most part composed of stories from the series "green grapes" for complacency.

Quote: hrych

Also the AUG of the USA for colonialism, for their system and doctrine of life.

Heh heh heh ... half of the tasks of the USAG in the global conflict are purely defensive.

[hrych]

Quote: Alexey RA

You suggest using TAVKR as RRC

I suggest you do something important, for example, animal husbandry or plant growing, you can put yourself in the service sector Joke. TAVKR includes RKR with giblets, because it has PU. When Krechet was designed, there were no strategic missile defense systems, but there were powerful Granit anti-ship missiles, the time of which passed, because they are replaced by more long-range and universal KR. Including promising supersonic and hypersonic. The same Caliber, in the anti-ship version, goes on subsonic, reaching a greater range, and at the final stage switches to supersonic. Etc. Also, the modularity and versatility of the weapon led to the fact that the mobile Iskander became an aviation dagger, insiders say that Zircon is a marine modification of Iskander. And it would be foolish not to consider this supercomplex in a marine version. PU Petit and Kuzi are suitable for this. This is the direction of our military science. Satellites and ZGRLS are ready to give target designation for thousands of kilometers and it’s a sin not to use it when there are missiles at this range. Therefore, engineering is going in a certain direction, and Varshavyanka, Antey, Krechety, Atlanta, Orlans, BOD, etc., including RTOs and Watchdogs, are strictly subordinate to it. If the TAVKR has an air wing, then for God's sake, but since it is a missile carrier, then firstly it automatically becomes a strategic carrier, it becomes a more powerful strike complex. This rule, a longer-range and more powerful weapon is a priority. Strategic CR is a priority. Therefore, the purely torpedo Varshavyanka became a strategic nuclear carrier through the Caliber and will hit targets in the neighboring sea without entering the enemy’s PLO active zone at all. Kuzya is also ready to hit the enemy’s bases and cities without entering the active zone of the enemy’s PKO and so on. And the air wing will also deal with air defense and anti-aircraft defense, maybe we will bomb the Papuans sometimes, but now the main task of all other TAVKR systems is to ensure the conditions for the successful use of strategic weapons, and these are rockets. Not only that, except for boilers, of course Kuzyu is armed and this is correct.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: hrych

TAVKR includes RKR with giblets, because it has PU.

But at the same time it does not have any long-range air defense (except for the air group that you have bracketed) and the anti-aircraft defense. Moreover, in terms of the number of PUs, it is half as small as the RRC.

Quote: hrych

If the TAVKR has an air wing, then for God's sake, but since it is a missile carrier, then firstly it automatically becomes a strategic carrier, it becomes a more powerful strike complex.

Not. He becomes useless AV and useless RKR. A huge ship with a displacement of 60000 tons with an air group is worse than that of the ancient Fosha of 33000 tons, and inferior in number to the conventional TARKR with a displacement of 26000 tons. Neither fish nor meat.
If you want a CD carrier, build RKR that does not carry a load that is useless for it in the form of an air wing, a hangar, and a take-off deck. If you want an aircraft carrier - build an AB. Otherwise, we will get another useless LK-AV Ise.

[hrych]

Score in the search engine Zircon (rocket) to Wikipedia and it is written in white and black that Kuznetsov after modernization will receive 3C14 universal launchers. Next, follow the link to ZS14 and read that this PU is designed for all types of Caliber, including the strategic ZM14, Onyx, Bramos and Zircon. Therefore, do not argue with me, but with our General Staff strategists, who are arming Kuzyu with Calibro-Zircono-Onyxes. Also PU SAM Dagger, can be upgraded to analogues of S-400, etc. Polyment-redoubts. Across the Atlantic, the stupidity of supplying the European grouping of NATO with American convoys may be relevant until the creation of thermonuclear weapons and ICBMs. The EU will last about 5 minutes, and the USA about 25 minutes and evaporate. Who will supply reinforcements and cola to whom? The task of our fleet and coastal defense is to prevent the enemy carriers of the Tomahawks from launching distance to Moscow, or rather our main military-economic-political centers of the Volga-Oka basin, where the ridge of Russia. The boundary is 400-500 km from the coast in the Barents Sea, further Tomahawks simply cannot reach the target. It's enough. And no Atlantic, etc. Also, apart from ICBMs, we had Poseidon for the destruction of naval bases, the fleet, and the coast as a whole at an intercontinental range. We have a Petrel (in memory of the Tempest rocket) at an intercontinental range. Therefore, even more so, the time of the AUG is nearing completion. Not only that, the Petrel opens a Pandora’s box, where manned aircraft will also be equipped with nuclear warheads, planes will fly for an unlimited time, for an unlimited range with Daggers, a shift method is possible where there is no refueling in the air, but docking and crew change. And this is no longer a fantasy, but a very distant future.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: hrych

Therefore, do not argue with me, but with our General Staff strategists, who are arming Kuzyu with Calibro-Zircono-Onyxes.

Here, rather, the reason is not tactical, but constructive - since there are already PUs on the ship, they must be used somehow (there are not so many PUs of "caliber"). Moreover, their dismantling will not give special benefits - PUs do not border the hangar, so it will not be possible to extend it (it was necessary to think earlier - at the design stage).

Quote: hrych

Also PU SAM Dagger, can be upgraded to analogues of S-400, etc. Polyment-redoubts.

Yeah ... and the Iskander launchers are analogous to the Yars and the Maces.
If in place of the PU "daggers" put S-400, then the TPK will hang from under the sponsons directly into the sea. That is the problem, that with the available length of the TPK SAM air defense systems, they can be installed only within the hangar and adjacent premises.

Quote: hrych

Across the Atlantic, the stupidity of supplying the European grouping of NATO with American convoys may be relevant until the creation of thermonuclear weapons and ICBMs.

Then the whole fleet is stupid. And the army too. Enough Strategic Rocket Forces - and for any sneeze immediately issue a Start command.

Quote: hrych

The task of our fleet and coastal defense is to prevent the enemy carriers of the Tomahawks from launching distance to Moscow, or rather our main military-economic-political centers of the Volga-Oka basin, where the ridge of Russia.

The task of our fleet is to give 30 minutes of life to our SSBNs. No alternatively gifted person will attack a nuclear country with conventional weapons, without ensuring the impossibility of a retaliatory strike by strategic forces. For the option "well, how are they?" in this case should always be provided.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: hrych

Not only that, the Petrel opens a Pandora’s box, where manned aircraft will also be equipped with nuclear warheads, planes will fly for an unlimited time, for an unlimited range with Daggers, a shift method is possible where there is no refueling in the air, but docking and crew change. And this is no longer a fantasy, but a very distant future.

And it already was. Missiles will replace aviation and artillery, a surface fleet is not needed - we’ll get along with nuclear submarines, nuclear warheads on planes ... huge plans, operating prototypes and small-scale ones. And it all ended with a return to traditional systems.

[hrych]

Quote: Alexey RA

Well, you don’t need to troll oily - put the S-400 kit on the deck.

There is a joke in every joke

[hrych]

Quote: Alexey RA

The task of our fleet is to give 30 minutes of life to our SSBNs.

So it’s true to say the truth, though according to the last doctrine of the SSBN, they are patrolling under the ice cap. And to prevent the Tomahawks from approaching the line of attack - it is precisely to prevent the disarming strike, including non-nuclear means at our missile mines, strategic aviation aerodromes and locations of mobile strategic complexes. ZS14 is available in the modification of the inclined deck installation 3C-14PE (for 2 missiles) - it is installed on the deck.

[Stena]

Quote: Alexey RA

The task of our fleet is to give 30 minutes of life to our SSBNs.

и

Quote: hrych

So it’s true to say the truth, though according to the last doctrine of the SSBN, they are patrolling under the ice cap.

There is an opinion (and not only mine, but, in particular, Maxim Klimov (the nickname on the site was - mina)) that the Americans under the ice are able to use torpedoes with SSN, and we (the Russian Federation) still cannot do this - then is, we can "shoot torpedoes" - only "by eye". Therefore, the possibilities of guaranteed destruction of the enemy are not high here. Moreover, at all depths available to them. Here we (RF), unfortunately, are far behind ...

[Grigory_45]

Quote: hrych

The cruiser is ready to complete all tasks himself.

complete and utter nonsense. Immediately visible shpishialist with stools

Quote: hrych

An aircraft carrier cruiser, it’s definitely cheaper than the whole AUG, if you are going to bookkeepers, consider it.

how many times is a single cruiser less effective AUG? Yes, you are even more wooden than it seemed at first. You don’t know anything at all, don’t understand and don’t want to know and understand. Well, to hell with you.

Quote: hrych

our Kuzya northern home registry

who told you such nonsense that Soviet ABs had to act exclusively in the North? You yourself invent a bullshit, then on its basis build even more delusional conclusions. First of all, Kuznetsov and his ilk, as well as Ulyanovsk, were assigned the fight against enemy aircraft, i.e. air defense functions. TAVKR were supposed to be a means of covering the deployment of NK and PL in the ocean

Quote: hrych

Ulyanovsk was supposed to carry 12 as well as Krechet, anti-ship missiles Granit,

they remained on it by pure chance, this anachronism, like a shock RC, should have been removed on the second ship of the project. Once again, how much taut, I repeat: even the Soviet admirals understood the flawed idea of ​​carrying unnecessary strike missiles with them.
Everything else, again, I will not comment, like nonsense.
Thank God that there are not many people like you in VO yet

[Grigory_45]

you still do not understand the main thing. Missiles can be shoved on escort ships, and these same ships are more efficient and cheaper than AB or TAVKR, but you can’t shove planes on other ships. It is aviation that is the main weapon of the AB, and this is the value of the AB for naval connections, and not in missiles or torpedoes. Sometimes a misunderstanding of the essence and logical errors, as in your case, lead to the creation of all sorts of monsters.
As for the domestic shipbuilders, they literally imposed a missile system on the ship, for the concept of using AB in the USSR fleet was somewhat different, vicious, so to speak. And initially, “Kuznetsov” was supposed to look completely different. First study the materiel and the history of the ship, then ... teach. And then goof off again

[Grigory_45]

you described yourself perfectly)) As if standing at the mirror, write a self-portrait)

[hrych]

Go already nice man You’re stuck in World War II junks, what else can you say. Why is it the North, and there is our main marine component of the nuclear triad of force, where the enemy can come up with his strategic missiles to strike at our centers. Of course, we also have the Pacific coast, but the North is the priority, there the most powerful nuclear cruiser in the world and our aircraft carrier cruiser there. Once again I urge you to get in Hartland and Rimland, they need to attack the ground from the sea, and we must defend the ground and the whole concept of building a fleet is like that. Because of this, they refused diesels, they do not need them because we need to work far, and we just need to act in the inland seas. Fershteen? All go, tired. You still can’t prove anything, like you. Well, about Ulyanovsk it’s better to read the materiel and don’t get disgusted anymore Accident however While

[Grigory_45]

Quote: hrych

there the enemy can come up with his strategic missiles to strike at our centers.

oh mine goth ... AB turns out to be called upon to defend against strategic missiles? How? Su-33 will intercept warheads? Why are you constantly accepting such a picky thing, you may ask that, time after time, you give out even more utter nonsense?
It is clear that you can not even talk about other, more important theater of operations, such as the Atlantic, the Mediterranean Sea and the Pacific. Not in the subject.

Quote: hrych

North, there is the world's most powerful nuclear-powered cruiser, and there is our aircraft carrier cruiser.

they just have nowhere else to base, what's not clear here? Where would you drive from, into the Black Sea puddle or into the Baltic neck, to certain doom? Well, yes, he’s also a strategist, damn it ..

Quote: hrych

Go all tired

you tell your wife.

Quote: hrych

You still can’t prove anything, like you.

this is the point, tight as you can’t prove anything. I won’t throw the beads anymore, you’ve got the wrong level to competently lead the discussion. Yes, and rudeness is so rushing, but it is the first indicator that there are no real arguments and will not be

[hrych]

If he were full of wisdom, he wouldn’t have missed the interception of ICBMs (although the C-500 transatmospheric missile on Kuz can fit in and still be able to carry out missile defense functions. Why do your thoughts work so limited? Ajis put in Tomahawk PU, but we are worse ), there is a triad of the enemy, there are nuclear submarines of the enemy, the fight against them, i.e. carriers, including carrier-based aviation, or rather, this is the main task of Kuzi, namely in the Freezing Sea. It was in Syria that they wanted to test carrier-based attack aircraft and fighter-bombers. In the North, for the fourth time I repeat, they have almost no work, but the AWACS and PLO helicopters, of course, are constantly in operation. We have a lot of aircraft carriers. Even if the wing consists of one helicopter. Almost all ships from the corvette to the cruiser. Project 1164 “Atlant” cruisers (Moscow, Varyag, Ustinov) are carried by helicopter, Project 1144 “Orlan” cruiser (Peter, Nakhimov) carry three helicopters each, Project 956 destroyer destroyers “Sarych” (Ushakov, Persistent, Fast), are carried by one helicopter, BOD of project 1155 (Kulakov, Tributs, Levchenko, Severomorsk, Vinogradov, Panteleev, Kharlamov) and project 1155.1 (Chabonenko) carry two helicopters, Corvettes of project 20380 (Steadfast, Boyky, Stereguschiy, Reasonable, Perfect) carry one helicopter each , Project 11356 frigates (Makarov, Essen, Grigorovich), carry one helicopter each. Etc.

[Grigory_45]

Quote: hrych

Why do your thoughts work so limitedly?

I would like to ask you the same question

Quote: hrych

The S-500 on the Kuz can fit and still be able to perform missile defense functions

tell me, are you a troll or do you really believe in the nonsense that you write? a system of the S-300 type sweeps a healthy below deck volume, and the air group and facilities for its maintenance (hangars, storages, etc.) are counted even more. Do you offer TAVKR with a displacement of 50 thousand tons with five planes, but studded with missiles like a tree with needles? You yourself are not funny?

Quote: hrych

this is the main task of Kuzi, in the Freezing Sea

this is a mistake, TAVKRs should not operate in the North Sea (or rather, not only there, but also in the Atlantic and the Mediterranean) If the ships are based in the North, then only because they have nowhere else to base - well Russia has no other ports for such large and valuable ships. Is it so hard to understand?

Quote: hrych

We have a lot of aircraft carriers. Even if the wing consists of one helicopter.

aaaaaa, it finally killed me)) Destroyers and corvettes (I won’t even say how many of them are on the move, especially Sarychev) with a single helicopter set flush with AB or TAVKR? Do you even know why helicopter carriers such as Moscow built? Because BOD is not able to provide even PLO itself, not to mention something more serious. In your opinion, will helicopters fight enemy naval aviation? Will they cover the SSBN deployment areas? Will they shoot down fighters and missiles? Are you out of your mind? Everything is clear with you. Thank God that we do not have admirals like you, and, I hope, never will be)) And if there is, they will immediately drown his own)
Take your potion further, further conversation with such Eksperd is simply meaningless

[hrych]

What tasks should Tavkr perform in the Atlantic? We have nothing to do there, as in the Indian Ocean and in most of the Pacific, except for coastal waters. SIMPLY TO DO THERE ANYTHING. When the range of the submarines was small and it was required to break into the Atlantic, there was a need, now this is not necessary. We do not have allies there to defend them; there is no ideological bloc and World Revolution. There are no our bases, etc. In short, we have nothing to do there, period. We must protect our firmament and our trade routes, and we have them in the North, that's all. There are interests in the Mediterranean, in the Baltic, in the Sea of ​​Japan and all. Such ships are needed accordingly. How many 12 PU Granit subdecks occupy the underdeck and what can be placed there instead of Granite without touching other compartments? Here is a photo with the dimensions of the granite PU. You just can’t imagine how huge they are and you can place a bunch of Caliber - analogs of Tomahawk, and atmospheric missiles - analogues of SM-3 Aegis. There, the Iskander BR penetrates the Granite pipe and three more meters remain in reserve along the length. And if you want to put the entire S-400 complex, Carapace or the same Iskander on deck, it won’t take up much space, the deck is gigantic, you just can’t imagine the scale of this structure.

Quote: Gregory_45

Take your potion further, further conversation with such Eksperd is simply meaningless

You're the famous expert, as I look.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: hrych

What tasks should Tavkr perform in the Atlantic? We have nothing to do there, as in the Indian Ocean and in most of the Pacific, except for coastal waters.

Just in the Atlantic, the Navy of the USSR was to fulfill its main task in the great war. The very one for which the "boots" generally allowed its existence. Namely - the disruption of transportation from the USA to Europe l / s, weapons and supplies. And since the breakthrough to the Atlantic, the ICAPL and the SSBN alone were close to suicide, the surface ships of the Northern Fleet were supposed to provide a breakthrough in the boundaries of the PLO.

Quote: hrych

How many 12 PU Granit subdecks occupy the underdeck and what can be placed there instead of Granite without touching other compartments?

Extend the hangar by the length of the PU block.

Quote: hrych

Here is a photo with the dimensions of the granite PU.

Ah ha ha ... this is not the dimensions of the launcher, but a horizontal section of the inclined launcher. Here is a diagram by which you can evaluate the dimensions of the PU unit:

Quote: hrych

And if you want to put the entire S-400 complex, Carapace or the same Iskander on deck, it won’t take up much space, the deck is gigantic, you just can’t imagine the scale of this structure.

Well, you don’t need to troll oily - put the S-400 kit on the deck.
After this, takeoff and landing operations can be definitely stopped - the planes between the cockpits and the launcher simply do not maneuver. Although ... in a week the kit can be written off - due to the effects of salt fog and sea water - and continue to take off and land.

[ver_]

... something will go to scrap ...

[SOF]

Quote: Yrec

There is a possibility that Kuzyu began to slowly disassemble for scrap

... which then, however, the demolitioners are "smart" .... etzh need a huge ship to be dismantled from the power plant ... from the inside, so to speak ..... not otherwise radioactive boilers .....?

[Grigory_45]

Quote: SOF

not otherwise radioactive boilers

yeah, the fuel oil reactors ..))

[Sweetheart]

Quote: Yrec

Kuzya is alone, and the costs of such an air wing are huge. In the near and medium term, we will not build aircraft carriers. Kuzya is retiring.

You’re writing nonsense. Russia needs to have aircraft carriers. As long as we have others, so leave your funeral songs for Internet users from Ruin, I’m glad to hear such dubious news.

[Fkjydjckfrgh]

Anyone who could handle old uzho with pens cannot be taken out. Young people are just "affective menagers"

[NordOst16]

Here it is not necessary to drive youth and management in general. For even now there are “hand-willed and big-headed” youth, but they are not ideological and are looking for the most profitable jobs for themselves. And effective management of time and resources is extremely important skill and trouble only that some laying between the chair and the table are called managers.

[aszzz888]

And without the “Chinese user,” Kuzi’s photos surf the Internet. These could well be filmed by the employees of the shipyard itself with further distribution on the Web.

... discuss the fact of repair "KuzI", or where did the photos appear on the Internet ???

[The Siberian barber]

I agree! Passage yard, some kind, at sensitive facilities

[Larum]

China has again shown that its intelligence is the coolest.

[Pimokat]

Quote: Fkjydjckfrgh

Anyone who could handle old uzho with pens cannot be taken out. Young people are just "affective menagers"

It’s for sure that at our factory the average age of workers is 50-55 years, which is at the neighboring ones. There are almost no youths, miners, and other machinists, they are already offering jobs in the plant that they will learn from scratch, but still no one is aspiring to this job ....

[Hagalaz]

There is a problem. But we have much better. Among this category of workers, the average age is about 40-50. At least from scratch it’s like learning to twist your nose. Everything is different everywhere.

[next322]

Quote: Yrec

There is a possibility that Kuzyu began to slowly disassemble for scrap

fortunately, this will not happen yet, for 10 years, for sure ....... the boilers will be replaced, they will return their second youth

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Repair and Thank God !!! The aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is second only to US aircraft carriers in its capabilities, and surpasses all other aircraft carriers of the NATO countries both in size and capabilities ... Even a heavy Su-33 fighter can take off from it.

In general, it will serve as long as it comes to new ones ...

[Normal ok]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is second only to US aircraft carriers in its capabilities

You forgot to add: "not having any analogs"

[demiurg]

Quote: Normal ok

"not having any analogs"

This phrase is not a Russian invention. Read about any US weapon on its manufacturer’s website.

[Setrac]

Quote: Normal ok

You forgot to add: "not having any analogs"

Liberals are in a hurry to fuck all Russian

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Aircraft carrier Admiral Kuznetsov is second only to US aircraft carriers in its capabilities

That is, the vast majority of AB in the world.

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Even a heavy Su-33 fighter can take off from it.

For the time being maybe - until they were written off.

[Normal ok]

These could well be filmed by the employees of the shipyard itself with further distribution on the Web.

Yeah, selling their photos to the Chinese.

[Imobile]

In the states there is a forum, if I remember, I will give a link. So there are millions of high-resolution photos. In Syria, for example, we wondered about the events, and there are thousands of photos from our base and not from satellites.

[Imobile]

https://www.americanmilitaryforum.com/forums/thre
ads / russian-forces-in-syria. 1358 /
It seems this

[GibSoN]

https://www.americanmilitaryforum.com/forums/thre
ads / russian-forces-in-syria. 1358 /

An interesting picture .. That is, it turns out everything that is secret in the Russian Federation, first of all and, first of all, secretly from its own population ?! And everyone else knows everything ..

[Imobile]

I was told the case when a person arrived, it seems from the United States with a map of Russia bought in an ordinary store with a million copies and put him in, the scale is too large.

[gregor6549]

And it always has been

[akmoa781]

Any information, any information related to the military industry producing, repairing, or servicing military equipment or weapons for the Russian Armed Forces is information not subject to distribution through any media. If such information has become known to a wide range of interested parties, then of course we are talking about a threat to Russia's national security! This means that respected state security bodies must work more carefully!

[cerbuk6155]

The fact that China has become a cut above us is a fact, with our liberals and with our capitalism we will soon slide to the level of Papua New Guinea. Already, 105 million people want to put on 1 million each and send as soon as possible to the cemetery. But this is still the flower-berries in front. Everything has long been coordinated with the West.

[Xnumx vis]

Quote: figvam

Yrec

New boilers for Kuznetsov have long been manufactured and shipped last year for replacement.

And the Chinese are spying on everyone, of course they are interested in what kind of modernization work we are doing.

The boiler in the photo is very similar to the heart. Aorta, valve ... The heart of the ship! "

[WATCH_OFFICER]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Having an aircraft carrier, even an old one, is primarily prestige ...

No, he is not old ... What is outdated there ?! .

Launched at the end of 1987. This is not a new building at all ... Much has become outdated. Part of course replace, but not all. Once again, I’m repairing it only for prestige and preserving personnel, but I’m sure that he will not wait for the receiver unfortunately ... He is already 31 years old, and when the replacement is built, God knows!

[tolmachiev51]

"Children's boat" was transported to China. Why stir up water with all kinds of crap.

[Black sniper]

Quote: Zhelezyakin

Kuzya is not an aircraft carrier! He is, aircraft carrier cruiser.

Consecrated, but we did not know

[Zomanus]

Very good photos, thanks for the Chinese showing them to us.

[nikvic46]

Quote: loft79

Quote: ver_

..the staff

Meant of pilots and sailors.

I read somewhere that "Admiral Gorshkov" was sold. Is this true?

[nikvic46]

Quote: Yrec

The maintenance of one ancient pre-aircraft carrier and 2 dozen carrier-based aircraft with crews, Thread and other facilities is not justified from an economic or military point of view. Thread, wherever it went. With a distant sight, it can be used slowly, chasing on it crews on ordinary aircraft. And Kuzyu will be repaired for a long time and, most likely, will not be repaired. It makes no sense; his concept is dead. And you, if you declared yourself a "troll hunter", so respect the opinions of others - do not take your truth in the last resort. This is the lot of idiots.

All the same, it seems to me that ships of this type were built for aircraft with a vertical take-off such as Yak.

[nikvic46]

Quote: Siberian barber

I agree! Passage yard, some kind, at sensitive facilities

I suspect this is the case.

[nikvic46]

Quote: Larum

China has again shown that its intelligence is the coolest.

One photo does not mean anything concrete.

[Dezinto]

The Chinese have our cruiser Varyag, (now Liaoning), a copy of the Kuznetsov sold by Ukraine. Project 1143 "Gyrfalcon".
I think they have upgraded it so far, dismantled the cogs thirty times. So there is nothing secret in these photos for the Chinese.
And the cruiser "Admiral Gorshkov" was sold to India.



So I want to add - "I'm sorry Jura, we all ..... sold."

[Grigory_45]

Quote: DEZINTO

The Chinese have our cruiser Varyag, (now Liaoning), a copy of the Kuznetsov

only Liaoning is far from a copy of Kuznetsov, although it looks similar. "Chinese" - a "clean" aircraft carrier. Exactly like the former Gorshkov converted to Vikramaditya (the former former Krechet 1143.4)
What did you sell? Who needed Gorshkov without planes? And why did Ukraine, which does not have carrier-based aviation, need an unfinished Varyag?

[Lone wolf]

At first I couldn’t believe my eyes .. what looks like a flask

[Lone wolf]

Quote: GibSoN

https://www.americanmilitaryforum.com/forums/thre
ads / russian-forces-in-syria. 1358 /

An interesting picture .. That is, it turns out everything that is secret in the Russian Federation, first of all and, first of all, secretly from its own population ?! And everyone else knows everything ..

This has happened since the days of the USSR ... although the locals always knew everything ... but they didn’t merge strangers, not like now.

[Santor]

Well, they would go to a guy’s blog .. By the way, he posted a link to the source from where he got the photos - https://www.gricen.com/a/1697066/

But on this site they already write that the new boilers for Kuzi were delivered to the plant in August 17 of the year. And they call them brand -"it should be an automatic automatic high-resolution steam boiler KVG-6М, developed by the Special Design Bureau (SKBK) of St. Petersburg in 2011 year."


I’ve already uploaded the photo above - I’ll add it from the Chinese forum. By the way, there they themselves write that they have the same boilers on Liaoyang as on Kuz, and they are interested in getting new boilers.



And I did not notice any envy there - the article as a whole is benevolent.

[Antares]

In Russia, traditionally everything is secret.
Features of a national character - we will die but we will not surrender a secret, even where there was no secret.
Therefore, information is easier to see from a "non-Russian source"
Kuzi boilers are the weakest point.

[Aleksandro]

"Kuzya" was launched about half a century ago from the shipyard of Nikolaev Shipbuilding Plant. The other day, this plant was declared bankrupt, like all shipbuilding is non-blocking. As the saying goes, "an apple from an apple tree ...". Very symbolic

[Severok]

For those who do not know:
they do not even let their own into the territory of the 35th shipyard with tablets, laptops, cameras;
the Chinese fell on the territory of the region, it is not surprising that the Chinese took pictures;
a question to counterintelligence, how are foreign subjects allowed to shoot a secret object?
And yet, for fun, it is forbidden to carry on the territory of the plant CUTTING or PECK knives with a clumsy blade.

[demiurg]

Alexey RA,
And there and there it is uncritical. For an urgent interception, the full mass is not needed, drive 2-4 missiles and kerosene 400-500 km from the aircraft carrier and vice versa.
The third position is needed for take-off with maximum load, and this is either take-off with a groove or take-off to hit targets on the surface. In any case, this is a planned operation.
The main trouble is the lack of an AWACS aircraft, and the absence of overhead containers of electronic warfare type ALQ-99.

[ver_]

Quote: SOF

Quote: Yrec

There is a possibility that Kuzyu began to slowly disassemble for scrap

... which then, however, the demolitioners are "smart" .... etzh need a huge ship to be dismantled from the power plant ... from the inside, so to speak ..... not otherwise radioactive boilers .....?

... that neither - scorched porridge scorched from the boilers, - they guessed all the red-hot soot ..

[Oleksiy]

Is it true that after the drowning of the dock, Kuznetsov was dragged to be repaired in China, and in exchange for repairs we sell Baikal and the remnants of Soviet technology?