Rally in the dying city of pensioners

The article you are currently reading is not an analyst, not an opinion, not news. This is an article expressing feelings. You may ask, how can a story about a trade union rally evoke any feelings?

A meeting of local trade unions took place in the city of N. on such a date, at which questions of "blah blah blah" were raised ... Ivanov, Petrov and Sidorov spoke ... At the end of the rally, a resolution was passed approving (condemning) this very " blah blah blah"...

But I did not have the task to attend this meeting. Yes, and I did not know about him, to be honest. Just considered the next official of the local Duma. Considered a question. Made a decision. Allocated to ... Rutin. Except one message! Omsk Regional Duma refused to discuss the draft pension reform - as anti-people!

If you read like a human being, it turns out that Omsk Duma, for the most part United Russia party, spat on its own chairman and his reform project! This means that the Omsk Speaker should already pack suitcases and take out personal belongings from the office office. A and. about. the governor should urgently dismiss these rebels ...

Especially since at the July 1 rally, about the reform project, there were about 5000 people who also sent the Kremlin draft and its authors. And here ... Meeting of the Federation of Trade Unions! In 2 hours. 1500 participants scheduled. And how to sit still? How not to know the opinion of these same union members?

In general, I rushed to knock around among people. To listen. Understand the state of the very abstract people through the state of people, the state of each person. The people in Siberia is simple. Emotions expressed by these, Russian emotional words! What can you do, such a sensitive people ...

So, sports and concert complex named after Blinov. Omsk. 18 July 2018 of the year. Air temperature under 30. The sun burns grass and people. Future protesters pile in the nearest bushes in the shade. Several policemen toil near the frame.

Some women report to a middle-aged man for poorly sending information to enterprises about the rally. That languidly justifies. Nearby several men, judging by the jacket of one, airport workers, argue about the effectiveness of the impact of such a rally on the government in Moscow.

In the other handful of "podkustovikov" hand out black balls. 20%, 65% and 63% ... Selectable. It is clear that with subtext. Retirement age and VAT rate. And they say, they say, they say ... But, he gave the word - keep it up. I had to listen. Although so wanted to argue!

In general, it is strange. Accustomed to rallies of political parties and movements, one is struck by the degree of the trade unions. Probably, such self-confidence comes over the years. More precisely, with dozens of years of struggle. Next to me are men, obviously not from office plankton. Kilograms on 600 total weight for five ...

Calm as boas. And I’m drawing a picture in my mind, when in front of them activists from the pioneer organization would have started to kick the bucket. It’s somehow hard to imagine how they convince guys to act humanly for more than 5 seconds. As well as standing on the legs "kids" in 10 seconds ... Kindness, she is here with her fists ... Siberians.

Rally. The beginning was not impressed at all. Neither you the national anthem and the hands of the heart. Neither you contribute the national flag and the flag of the federation of trade unions. Scene. With a dozen men and women. Several flags. And just people act.

Do not even speak, no. Just talking to the crowd. Doctor about the problems of treating people. That the doctor cannot treat for 3 minutes. The fact that we have men even today do not live up to retirement, life expectancy 56 years. The fact that they can not be treated in rural areas. No one and nowhere.

Performs a rural teacher. Tells about 60 and more hours of stress on the teacher. On faulty buses. On the "type of manned" school. But most striking, he speaks simple truths. “I’m working for wear. I’m not likely to see my own pension certificate. But today I’m paying money to a retirement fund. Give me the money I’ve saved!

Actress Is this something missing? Pits do not dig. "Chemistry" do not breathe. We, psychos, in public transport do not carry. But it turns out there are problems there ... They also have “mines digging there”. Only others ...

Speaking, performing, speaking ... And you know, it turned out that it is difficult to be impartial. I clapped along with everyone. I was not around. I was with them. I stopped being a journalist and became a member of the rally.

You know, I looked at these people, those who stood close by and on stage, and understood that they were not just like that. Do not yell, do not wave posters, do not leave the room. They are really sick. They do not want anyone to decide their fate without their consent.

And the rally ended the same way it started. Without pathos and beautiful tinsel. The chairman of the trade unions came out and announced the end of the rally. Everything!

It is clear that Omsk, albeit a million-plus city, but not Moscow. One of the centers of the dying region. It is still a large city, from which young people run even faster than old people die. City is the opposite. City growing back. The city where the population is constantly aging.

The region, which is about 1 percent of the territory of Russia. The area where 1 900 000 live with over the people, of which 72% in the city. An area in which 450 000 is officially residing today. A city that is tired.

It became terrible after the rally. It is terrible when people walked in silence. You know, there is such silence. Not aggressive, not sinister. Just a terrible silence.

Summer. Heat. The sun is frying. Nature is smiling around. And walking people. Not serious, not gloomy, not aggressive. Just people. People who invisibly boil. It is terrible.

Comments

[S_Baykala]

At 2016 in Belarus, the retirement age was simply raised. On 3 of the year. And no one asked anyone. That's right - that's all.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

It became terrible after the rally. It is terrible when people walked in silence. You know, there is such silence. Not aggressive, not sinister. Just a terrible silence.

Omsk respected, everyone needs to react, let them think ...

[prapor55]

We also had a second rally, they just covered up quickly, I think on a single voting day the people will no longer be barbecue in the morning, but first they get off and spoil the statistics of the edra.

[210ox]

Prapor, well, you’re like a child straight ... The same will be three hundred with a hook ... I already wrote about talking with employees before the election and the presidential and the Duma and what is now. They will go and vote again in unity for my mother .. . Do you think our salaries are great, why do we vote so? Thirty ... This is Russia.

Quote: prapor55

We also had a second rally, they just covered up quickly, I think on a single voting day the people will no longer be barbecue in the morning, but first they get off and spoil the statistics of the edra.

[prapor55]

Well, there is a childish immediacy in me, just hope dies last. Omsk has always been in opposition, especially after the registration of Gazprom in St. Petersburg, believe me it is insulting to breathe disgust from the refinery and look at the blacks at Zenith. But Our Crimea raised the rating of the guarantor into space and a record turnout in March. In the fall, either the failure of edra, or 15% of the turnout as it was before.

[210ox]

Alexander, of course, and I hope ... I just look at the people around me. Yes, full of those who have disbelieved in Putin. But this is his last term and does not threaten him. After about four years, the OH receiver will move into the prime minister's chair. an action was carried out in the media and the matter is in the hat and so on ad infinitum. The system is worked out.

Quote: prapor55

Well, there is a childish immediacy in me, just hope dies last. Omsk has always been in opposition, especially after the registration of Gazprom in St. Petersburg, believe me it is insulting to breathe disgust from the refinery and look at the blacks at Zenith. But Our Crimea raised the rating of the guarantor into space and a record turnout in March. In the fall, either the failure of edra, or 15% of the turnout as it was before.

[prapor55]

Yes, according to their logic, it should be so, but what about genocide and in general I don’t understand how they want to crank it up ???!

[sabakina]

Dim, and employees under white handles lead under the escort to the ballot box or directly in the service fill out ballots under the watchful eyes of the head?

[210ox]

Hello, hello! I don’t go into this “kitchen” like whatever they think. I just look at the people around me, my colleagues .. "Well, that’s the way it is necessary" -the most common answer to the question. Up to 70 years they will raise- they will agree. We work until the very end, until we completely glue the fins .. I wrote comments below at our place of work, a sunflower processing plant. The work is hard and physical. Okay, we’re technicians there, we’ll be fifty in three hundred ten people. There is one pensioner-electrician. So he was taken to the janitors for twelve thousand .. That would not go to night shifts, you never know .. There is no other work in the village. Now they will begin to squeeze closer to sixty. And it will, believe me .

Quote: sabakina

Dim, and employees under white handles lead under the escort to the ballot box or directly in the service fill out ballots under the watchful eyes of the head?

[karabas86]

Their principle is important not just how they vote, but as they think, in Yaroslavl the bucket is constantly in the crap, but the first ones were counted, and the gene chews neither lawsuits nor indignation, although his party’s voices steal.

[AK1972]

Quote: prapor55

and first comes down and spoils the statistics edru.

It does not work, and this will ruin the statistics of the edru.

[ARES623]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Omsk respected, everyone needs to react, let them think ...

Exactly. And let them think, THEY. But we do not want to think, we cannot, we do not want to. Give us terrible tales. Like - "I work for wear and tear. I will most likely not see my own pension certificate. But today I pay money to a pension fund. Give my children the money! My children!" - Do not work for wear, go to another job, upgrade your qualifications and go to the one that does not wear out. There are not many options, but there are. But you need to THINK about it. And we also like fairy tales - "I pay to a pension fund." Who pays in PF? Show me the “payroll” with the line “listed in the FIU”. This is the employer for the right to open a full-time unit, to which he invites the employee, pays to the Pension Fund and other funds "social load". And in order to live to retirement, you just need to carefully consider your lifestyle and make adjustments - drink a couple of glasses less, smoke half a pack less, walk more often and more. According to the proposed reform, those who are today 54-55 years old fall into the "five years". Create your own fund for the next five years and you can well go on vacation when you want - in 60-62 years. After all, no one is being driven to work from home. I looked at the photo in the article. Those who are aged - they are already retired, what is it ..... what is needed at this meeting? (a lot of those who are not pensioners have such excess weight ..., apparently from wear and tear). But after all, they invited for someone’s account made posters. For whose? Who is financing the rally? I remember that in the 90s miners went on strike, they did not have such an abundance of posters ... but there was a real misfortune of their own. Today, foam is raised by structures that need to be profitable to promote on this topic, and they use illiterate plebs in the dark. For these purposes, they will buy journalists who will swing, "evoke some feelings", mind you - not thoughts, but feelings. Then on on
that wave will appear concrete people who on these "feelings" seep into the official seats. And as you cried, you will cry. And let them think .... I will think too. Itself. Without feelings, but with math.

[prapor55]

I’ll be correct, I suggest that you come to Omsk, improve qualifications and get a highly paid job, to complete the picture of Tolstoy’s work of the same name, you can video, at least Nika is provided with you.

[ARES623]

Quote: prapor55

I’ll be correct, I suggest that you come to Omsk, improve qualifications and get a high-paying job,

I will be correct too. I already did it in due time. He changed his profession, place of residence for 4000 km, lived in apartments, in the gym. Today, reforming various industries does not hurt me. Nick does not interest me; she is interesting to those who live on emotions. I prefer to have a simple calculation in priority. You’ll call Putin to Omsk, otherwise they won’t even be able to fill in the mayor’s place (as a free offer).

[MPN]

Quote: ARES623

He changed his profession, place of residence for 4000 km, lived in apartments, in the gym.

Still got to the deputies? Do not wash so with petroleum jelly?

[ARES623]

Quote: MPN

Still got to the deputies? Do not wash so with petroleum jelly?

I didn’t guess .... By the way, the deputies of the local Duma work for free, in their free time, exclusively on a voluntary basis. They even pay for telephone calls from their own salaries. And is it difficult for you without Vaseline? Yes, we have such a country, it is difficult for Vaseline addicts.

[MPN]

Quote: ARES623

By the way, deputies of the local Duma work for free, in their free time, exclusively on a voluntary basis.

Poor little ones, I feel sorry for you ...

[ARES623]

Quote: MPN

Poor little ones, I feel sorry for you ...

You mixed me up with someone. This is your deputy chair - the measure of commercial success and happiness. And our deputies are normal guys with their own outlook on life and trying to realize themselves in socially useful work. You take pity on yourself .... envy eats away.

[MPN]

Quote: ARES623

You mixed me up with someone

Judging by your statements, it’s unlikely, because in our country the life of others is taught only by one “caste” and not by teachers of the secondary school now.

Quote: ARES623

You take pity on yourself ....

Dear I am retired (military pensioner) since 1998 and it’s not up to you to judge how she earned and what I regret, but you still have to grow up to the teacher. The defender of the offended poor deputies from you is really not bad and the whole party of United Russia prays for you which, being elected by the people and a priori, should express the opinion of the voters, unanimously (UNANIMOUSLY! Karl!) Complied with the DAM instructions. What kind of deputies are you rubbing into me about local ones? But is it not a step to where the sun shines with all the deception that has erupted, and where it will be possible to give a damn about this people with a free soul ...

[ARES623]

Quote: MPN

Judging by your statements, it’s unlikely

I myself am a "military pensioner" since 2002. I work. I’m not going to teach anyone, I just share my own experience. You do not need? For God's sake!!! In the East they say: "You can bring a camel to a watering place, you can not make it get drunk." Exactly here.

Quote: MPN

elected by the people and a priori should express the opinion of voters, unanimously (UNANIMOUSLY! Karl!) Fulfilled the instructions of DAM.

And you weren’t “UNIFIED” in your life? Or "the remnants of the bloody communist regime" were finally eradicated within themselves. Maybe they did not belong to the CPSU? Anyway ... The lyrics are everything. To me, in general, before the lamp, how your pension was earned, but the fact that you designate yourself with the capital letter "I" says a lot about you. Your idea of ​​"castes" and "steps" broadcast by your comment says that your outlook on life is primitive. What did you command, if not secret?

[RaptorF22]

Honest deputies It is fantastic Isn't Tuleyev your best friend?

[ARES623]

Quote: RaptorF22

Honest deputies. This is a fantasy. Tuleyev is by chance not your best friend?

Are you more honest than deputies?

[prapor55]

On Friday, one of us was sent to places not remote for 4,5 years. 50 mln. stole, a fine of 900 thousand and the general regime, well, at least that.

[prapor55]

Duc called, this is not a royal matter. New acting Guber promised a sun of the kind in August, but judging by the road from the airport it was not fate again. He changed two places of residence, I was from Semipalatinsk.

[ARES623]

Quote: prapor55

Threat I changed two places of residence, I come from Semipalatinsk.

There are errors in the directions, we must make a correction and try again. Omsk today is a real hole. But there is Tyumen and Khanty nearby, there is a “sleeve” problem.

[prapor55]

No, dismiss the number of people of Caucasian ethnicity in these cities has already exceeded their number in the mountains. And the work of the engineer practically equates me to the oligarchy, there is a faint hope of surviving to retirement and poking around in the country. They are simply afraid of raising our age, although the thirst for money sometimes disables the self-preservation instinct.

[ARES623]

Quote: prapor55

No, dismiss the number of people of Caucasian ethnicity in these cities has already exceeded their number in the mountains

Well, yes, well, it’s not with the hand of this white master ... Does Aryan blood interfere?

[prapor55]

It seems that the person is no longer young, and even older in age according to legend, but .. well, I say goodbye to you political officer.

[ARES623]

Quote: prapor55

It seems that the person is no longer young, and even older in age according to legend, but .. well, I say goodbye to you political officer.

My education profile is team. I have been working with people throughout my active life. Including and with LCN. Nothing, I carry out the production program, without stabbing and in Russian. If the fifth point is covered with shells and scared to move, then who is to blame !?

[sabakina]

Quote: prapor55

Alexander

Sasha, he is the same military retirement as archpriest of me!

[ty60]

feed the aliens.

[ARES623]

Quote: ty60

feed the aliens.

These "aliens" are the same citizens of the Russian Federation as you. Their fathers in Western Siberia discovered and developed oil and gas fields from which your social guarantees are financed. Being thankful is not beautiful .... It smacks of social racism.

[naidas]

Quote: ARES623

There are errors in the directions, we need to make a correction and try again

Then it’s better to go to Germany.

[sabakina]

Quote: ARES623

I will be correct too. I already did it in due time. He changed his profession, place of residence for 4000 km, lived in apartments, in the gym. Today, reforming various industries does not hurt me. .

As I understand it, you are a businessman, but not of a small scale, but bigger, but you can’t reach the oligarch, otherwise you would not be sitting on this site. Hence the conclusion. You are a simple trader who will sell us, then he will buy us, then he will sell us again, but much more expensive. You know what, you trade without a loss, and okay. WHAT ARE YOU CLICKING HERE ???

[ARES623]

Quote: sabakina

As I understand it, you are a businessman, but not of a small scale,

With your analytical skills, only last year’s snow can predict.

Quote: sabakina

WHAT ARE YOU CLICKING HERE ???

None of your business! Where I want, I’m climbing there! They didn’t grow up to ask me questions in that tone. It’s better to whine about retirement ....

[ARES623]

Quote: Rust

As an installer of pipelines and process equipment, I say that it’s not easy to earn a decent life by honest work. With rare exceptions.

And I'm not saying that everything is simple. But if you plow all the time, then the emergency workers are not needed. And you can insure your future. In most cases. Bearing in mind the possibility of some completely unusual situations. And I'm not at all sharp and categorical, healthy men who shed tears about their missing state are not very nice to me. You worked at 2-3 jobs, I worked, those who today work in this mode do not sit on sites, so the question about shells on the fifth heat is not for them and not for you. We must strive, seek and protect what we find. That's the whole recipe, as you say, of a decent life.

[ty60]

I would love to predict a financial collapse. And in life, I shot in a duel

[ARES623]

Quote: ty60

I would love to predict a financial collapse. And in life, I shot in a duel

Why are you so bloodthirsty? Come on, I don’t manage your money and don’t intersect. Ali familiarity with reality is so painful? It happens ... I'm from idleness, between books, working days are gummy, and since I'm white and fluffy ...

[a housewife]

Have you done all these manipulations at 56? Did you spend the night in the gym with your wife? Has the profession changed a turner to a banker?

[ARES623]

Quote: housewife

Have you done all these manipulations at 56?

I am not 56 today, but 54. What makes you think that I turned from a turner into a banker? When it became impossible to live in St. Petersburg with the Sobchak + GDP management in the 90s, I left the Moscow Region, I was unemployed, a mechanic, a machine operator at a woodworking factory and moved to a small random town in the region equal to the Far North. He entered the Ministry of Internal Affairs. Since there were no contacts or acquaintances here, he rented an apartment, lived for 3 years in a gym in one enterprise, worked, worked and improved to the current state. I am a pensioner but work in a budget institution. No tricks. As with Vysotsky, "he helped his head with his own hands." For 37 working years, only the last few “know” a 5-day week and “Friday”. I do not seek to teach people who are far from me. I share what I have lived myself. I see what I can change in my life and what not, I express my opinion in public correspondence and, of course, it does not have to coincide with someone else's. Do not agree - your right. There is something to share with me, I will accept with pleasure. Something like this.

[a housewife]

I was just trying to understand how such tricks can be twisted, having a family. If one - then, of course, anything is possible.

[ty60]

He became the owner of the guard. Served !!!

[ARES623]

Quote: ty60

He became the owner of the guard. Served !!!

Oh my God! Something familiar breathed. Long lay back? Here, some have harmful illusions? Not worth it. There was the experience of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, he caught punks and bandits with rapists on the street. For ten years Makarov has been a part of my body. So do not get excited with duels. You, obviously, the "rose" with the "feather" is more to the topic ...

[Rey_ka]

Well, every 5 years I go to improve my qualifications or confirm. plus I myself teach at these courses for free! and didn’t go wrong in his 52 years!

[Was mammoth]

Quote: ARES623

Give us terrible tales.

Quote: ARES623

I looked at the photo in the article. Those who are aged - they are already retired, what is it ..... what is needed at this meeting? (

Here is another scary tale for you. No, true. Of the 12 people in my first brigade, two survived to retirement. The rest are on the graveyard. I am a pensioner, one of two traitors to the motherland and the FIU. And I need my children and granddaughters to live happily, and not survive. Is it hard to understand?

[ARES623]

Quote: There was a mammoth

And I need my children and granddaughters to live happily, and not survive. Is it hard to understand?

It is completely clear, and I support it at 100. The whole question is how many grandchildren you have. If in place of the “departed” 10 comrades twenty young and strong come to your first brigade, this is one situation. Then change would not be required. And today, ten retired people are replaced by a much smaller number of young people. And this is completely different. Women today give birth much less, and the health of infants, including through the fault of parents, is much worse. In 20-30 years, 5-3 out of 4 born survived, but they were healthier. And today, young growth is sometimes left out of 500 grams of birth weight. That's all the math. Is it hard to consider? “It is necessary” and “perhaps” are sometimes mutually exclusive concepts.

[a housewife]

Now I do not know how much they give birth. But in the 90s they hardly gave birth. Guilty, apparently, women, for which they 8 and cheated. Guys are not forced to give birth. For that they are 5! And what was such a life in those years - not our state is to blame, but some other? And instead of supporting the people with all their might, they are trying to destroy it altogether. His guilt shifted to the people.

[ARES623]

Quote: housewife

And what was such a life in those years - not our state is to blame, but some other?

Our state is us. We rejoiced when the “governing and directing” was removed from the constitution, in August 1991 we did not allow the GKChP to take power and today we cannot understand whether this is good or bad. In the end, we decide to go to the meeting for our child or not, drink bitter or save on a tutor, plow at work or play a fool with a sore head from a hangover, take responsibility. your boss or sit out without worries. We are responsible for our life and our family. For this, the children will ask us. No need to look for outsiders. All the same, there is no demand from them.

[a housewife]

No, sorry. Is the state us? Almost "I" ... The state is a mechanism of violence. You can, of course, put it more beautifully, but the essence is one. If the state is us, it somehow smacks of masochism. And again - we don’t need everyone to fit in one comb. Someone was happy, someone was upset, someone just worked, while something was happening in the capital, it was incomprehensible to most people. Still, the state - the head, the government and two armies, one - officials, the other - armed. Is not it so? And in fact, an armed army is a real force. It is not for nothing that only armed coups are successful all over the world. I was wrong?

[freddyk]

ARES623, I read here your argument, let me insert my five cents. No offense, your position is understandable, and probably right for today. But here, for the most part, people with the right Soviet upbringing are when a person works for the good of society. And you have the position of a sole man, a tradesman and a careerist, a person alien to a normal Soviet person. Therefore, you will never understand each other.
All the best.

[ARES623]

Quote: freddyk

let me insert my five cents

My position is not to wait for mercy from nature, but to strive to influence our future on our own and, as far as possible, to help others become stronger and smarter. When everyone takes care of themselves and their loved ones, society will not need someone else's help, or the need for it will significantly decrease. And here is your position - the position of a dependent waiting for social prosperity at the expense of the state, and when it reduces soldering, then you (in general, specific importance) are ready to raise the government by pitchfork. You have forgotten the civil war in 1917 and are ready for new coups. One thing is encouraging, you are not capable of real actions, you are not the creators of your future, make noise and calm down. And every time you retire, you will consider it beggarly and always someone else will be to blame for your troubles. This is a change for you from five cents.
ps I'm not looking for someone else's support in my opinion, the "pluses" to me a damn. Each of the interlocutors will remain with his own opinion. If someone has prompted reflection, it is enough for me. The rest can continue to wait by the sea for weather. But judging by the state of the economy, the clouds are gathering. The government has more gifts, I think there will be new tears.

[Oleko]

Quote: ARES623

ARES623, I read here your argument, let me insert my five cents. No offense, your position is understandable, and probably right for today. But here, for the most part, people with the right Soviet upbringing, this is when a person works for the good of society

Here are people who for the most part did not live under socialism, but read lacquered tales about the USSR and how well they lived there. I am 66 and how I lived there I know. “With a feeling of deep satisfaction, the entire Soviet people accepted the historic decisions of the next plenary session of the Central Committee of the CPSU on the correct Soviet upbringing. Party meetings were held at the primary party organizations of collective farms, educational institutions, military units, where members of the primary organizations warmly approved the plenum materials. Members took the initiative. Party organization of the collective farm “Ilyich’s Way”: to introduce a new discipline in the primary grades of the comprehensive school: “proper Soviet education.” The initiative was fully approved by the district committee and regional committee and sent to the Central Committee of the CPSU for consideration at the next meeting of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the CPSU “So what?

Quote: ARES623

Quote: freddyk

let me insert my five cents

My position is not to wait for mercy from nature, but to strive to influence our future on our own and, as far as possible, to help others become stronger and smarter. When everyone takes care of themselves and their loved ones, society will not need someone else's help, or the need for it will significantly decrease. And here is your position - the position of a dependent waiting for social prosperity at the expense of the state, and when it reduces soldering, then you (in general, specific importance) are ready to raise the government by pitchfork. You have forgotten the civil war in 1917 and are ready for new coups. One thing is encouraging, you are not capable of real actions, you are not the creators of your future, make noise and calm down. And every time you retire, you will consider it beggarly and always someone else will be to blame for your troubles. This is a change for you from five cents.
ps I'm not looking for someone else's support in my opinion, the "pluses" to me a damn. Each of the interlocutors will remain with his own opinion. If someone has prompted reflection, it is enough for me. The rest can continue to wait by the sea for weather. But judging by the state of the economy, the clouds are gathering. The government has more gifts, I think there will be new tears.

But I like this position. I thank the Almighty for taking me by the scruff 30 years ago and bringing me to a yoga school, giving me the right to decide to stay there or leave. I stayed. Now I can treat myself without resorting to the help of doctors. I have neither a policy nor a medical card. I do not need them. I am healthier than myself at that time, the 25-year-old is 66 years old. I drank. The phenomenon is quite common in the yoga environment when a certain level is reached. I drank 8,9, 10 thousand from my pension almost every month (pension 12 tr), but a few months ago I got drunk to the point that I smelled the asphalt at the entrance with physics, covered the entrance to the apartment with blood. My wife washed the floor while I was lying drunk. When I looked at myself (a face-bloody mask with a scar), I realized that I "drank my tank." Now I restore all the functions of the body that were lost in the process of drinking. He removed arthritis, angina pectoris, normalize blood pressure and ... other. I don’t need a pension increase at the expense of those who will work until 65 and 63. I will earn it myself. “Not a man is looking for money, but money is looking for a man”, if the person is not a whiner and does not sit with his mouth open, counting with anger and envy money in other people's wallets. "Age is not given for decrepitude, but for the accumulation of strength," reads the postulate of the combat yoga of the Dharma-Margot. “Don’t be shy before the enemy, the man’s most terrible enemy is himself” are the words of the greatest thinker of all times and peoples of Kozma Petrovich Prutkov. That's all

[Rey_ka]

Irina Do you still live in a social state? Wake up! Outside the window, capitalism and NOBODY came out to defend socialism neither here nor in Libya. Because everyone with their cunning decided that they certainly won’t work! So get it!

[Was mammoth]

Quote: ARES623

Is it hard to consider?

I think not very much.
Landed My uncle worked as a blacksmith when I started working in a team of which only two are alive. The hammer was one of his tools. There was a talent. You will not find such ones in the afternoon with fire. Maybe you know where "blacksmiths" are found today in production? We will not consider the increased productivity?

Quote: ARES623

You come to the real production ....

I wonder why so? And, well, your children didn’t "rush" into a locksmith? I think it’s dirty, not prestigious and they pay little. Better graduate school. Or maybe you are a supporter of the “Paretto law”, which is advertised by a certain historian.
The problem of retirement age, the size of pensions does not lie in the plane of demography and is not even financial for the state, but social. The Putin government is consistently eliminating social commitments made in the USSR. Imperialism, however.

[ARES623]

Quote: There was a mammoth

Better graduate school.

Yes, graduate school is better, more interesting, of course, allows you to keep your family in a decent form. It was for this purpose that I brought him up so that he would be competitive in the labor market, in the academic language.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: ARES623

It was for this purpose that I brought him up so that he would be competitive in the labor market, in the academic language.

In the sense, is it easy and a lot of "grandmother to nail up"?
You already have problems at the enterprise with working professions. We die, who will stand behind the machine? Lumpen or ludd? Or buy everything in China? Already even buy nails there.
Perhaps, after all, to make the correct diagnosis? What is Russia sick with?

[ARES623]

Quote: There was a mammoth

In the sense, is it easy and a lot of "grandmother to nail up"?

Well, if it’s easy, then why aren’t you boiling up? Maybe you convinced your children with gold medals from high school and honors to go to "hegemony"? I'm not capable of that. I confess ... I adhere to the line - you can take the height, so you have to make every effort to take it. But it’s mine personally, I don’t advise anyone ...

[Was mammoth]

Quote: ARES623

Well, if it’s easy, then why aren’t you boiling up?

I chose my profession in Soviet times. By vocation, and not for the "grandmother to cut." By the way, my diploma is red.

[ARES623]

Quote: There was a mammoth

By the way, my diploma is red.

Well, how easy are your grandmothers? Free from the sky .......? Ali have to strain somewhere?

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Was Mammoth

Of the 12 people in my first brigade, two survived to retirement.

Hello Mammoth! My relative, too full of strength, unexpectedly left much earlier. Recently, I recalled an article on this topic, here for a long time somehow, about the inheritance of pension accumulations by relatives in such cases.

[Was mammoth]

Hello Dima! The fact that people do not live up to retirement is not uncommon. It was before. That's life. But, the fact that the current "pension reform" is cannibalistic, for me there is no doubt. And, the fact that it will take power, too. Putin's hypocritical regret yesterday is "crocodile tears." However, he has already signed a change to the budget, reducing funding for the FIU.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Was Mammoth

...... He, however, has already signed a change to the budget, reducing funding for the FIU.

And there were about such words that you can do nothing for another 10 years .... Why then rush then? How much of everything needed is not being done .... So let it not be done, if possible.

[Was mammoth]

Quote: Reptiloid

So let it not be done, if possible.

There were. But, you can’t do it, Dima! So much dough! And, all this is ownerless did not stick to the handles! Read the classics of Marxism-Leninism.

[ty60]

Officials who have raised their retirement age need to be sawed out of something. They have to feed the pension of not-so-grandchildren in England! Therefore, we are in addition to the deadline .. We are well-fed, we need to fill it

[Rey_ka]

Well, this is now not only in the insurance part, but it seems in the funded

[c3r]

At 50 we upgrade our qualifications and go to Gazprom or ... or where? Where is the production, where to leave? What are you smoking?

[Rey_ka]

Aleksey all designers MUST be trained once every 5 years! and even in a private office, even in Gazprom!

[tank64rus]

Ah, good lord. Maybe enough stories to tell people. One word plebs gives you a head. One I can’t understand, our bureaucratic-criminal elite has become insolent to the extreme. The fact that there is a struggle of groups within the government is a fact, that the government is not capable of developing the state is a fact, that the mafia solved its problems in the usual way by another robbery of the people, a fact. Tell me, how does this reform combine with a speech on the development of the country of the President, and indeed nothing. On the contrary, pure wrecking. One statement about prolonging life causes a bitter grin, as well as assurances about control over layoffs. There is no development of industrial production, and these are statistics. Where is the development of science, new technologies, the introduction of inventions, etc. According to the same Federal State Statistics Service, less than 3% of inventions are being introduced in our country, and they have from 50 to 70% in the West. But while Rusnano is led by Chubais and the like, there will be nothing else besides similar “reforms”. Is it the great upheavals that we don’t even need at all, the impression is that there are “revolutionaries” in the government.

[AK1972]

Quote: ARES623

This is the employer for the right to open a full-time unit, to which he invites the employee, pays to the Pension Fund and other funds "social load".

The employer does not pay me the same 22% of the salary. The capitalist will necessarily shift his obligations to the employee. The same applies to VAT. Watch your hands. Tax on what? Value added. Who gets the added value? Answer: Seller. Question: why is VAT included in the cost of goods and who pays VAT as a result? Answer: Buyer, i.e. me and you.

[ARES623]

Quote: AK1972

The employer does not pay me the same 22% of the salary.

Those. Have you been hired to work for some kind of salary, but you get paid 22% less? What are you doing at this job? In principle, you have the right to work for free ... if that suits you.

[AK1972]

Quote: ARES623

Those. Have you been hired to work for some kind of salary, but you get paid 22% less? What are you doing at this job? In principle, you have the right to work for free ... if that suits you.

I work in my specialty, in a managerial position with a good salary (white) by our standards. You just did not understand the thought. If the employer did not pay 22% in the PFR, then by these 22% he could raise the salaries of employees. In this case, employees could save this money in a bank account and the FIU is not needed at all. However, I have already had 24 years of white work experience. All this time I pay personal income tax, the employer transfers money to the PFR that I did not pay extra.

[ARES623]

Quote: AK1972

If the employer did not pay 22% in the PFR, then by these 22% he could raise the salaries of employees.

Are you laughing? Well, damn it, you give !? You were hired for 100 rubles a month, and you think that he will start to pay you 122? Well, this is not even science fiction .... And "it is not a matter of pessimism or optimism, ..." ask Chekhov further, he will tell.

[ARES623]

Quote: AK1972

However, I have already had 24 years of white work experience. All this time I pay personal income tax, the employer transfers money to the PFR that I did not pay extra.

Because, as your comment was deleted, I understood its general mood. I explain the previous thought. The employer, announcing to you when you employ a salary of 100 rubles, appointed her exactly to hire you, on the basis that you won’t go for less, and the profitability of your work does not allow you to pay more. And your relationship with him is built on the basis of this amount. Social tax on the employer was imposed by the state, and if it refuses this amount, it will go to the income of the employer. You are not in an employer-state relationship. With what fright does the employer begin to pay you money not taken by the state? By the way, it’s useful to look at the deductions that have fallen on your share in the FIU. There are many cases when employers have "saved" on this.

[Bad_santa]

At our place, Duma deputy Smolin said everything in clear text. Under Putin, Omsk began to be heavily infringed: at first Sibneft was taken away by raider seizure, then industry was destroyed, then Mostovik was derailed. They are there in the Kremlin completely for the idiots of people are kept. Sometimes it seems that Putin thinks every day how the United States bends and puts Omsk on its knees. Just two thoughts.

PS How the bridge collapsed the whole Omsk probably knows. And the fact that they showed you on KisilevTV open lies. At first they wanted to drive the company into debt and bankrupt with the help of Sochi construction projects. When the state frankly threw the company without paying the agreed funds from the construction of the facilities. Shishov began to demand earned money and he was sent to the bunk. Now he is creating a new one from scratch. In his Bridge, people went to work as whole families, his company built a new building in SibADI (road institute), sponsored the Bridges and Tunnels department, took students from this department to practice (a relative when he studied there went to practice in Mostovik and as a student a student earned a foreign car).

[Olgovich]

Quote: S_Baykala

At 2016 in Belarus, the retirement age was simply raised. On 3 of the year. And no one asked anyone. That's right - that's all.

In Moldova, as early as 2 years, the retirement age is 63 g.
In Germany, 67 years old.
And there’s simply no other way out - the population is aging catastrophically quickly

[Cube123]

Quote: Olgovich

Quote: S_Baykala

At 2016 in Belarus, the retirement age was simply raised. On 3 of the year. And no one asked anyone. That's right - that's all.

In Moldova, as early as 2 years, the retirement age is 63 g.
In Germany, 67 years old.
And there’s simply no other way out - the population is aging catastrophically quickly

You do not understand the economics of the process. Labor productivity is growing. At the beginning of the last century, more than 80% of the population had to work in agriculture. Otherwise, the country could not be fed. But one farmer with a tractor and a combine cultivates many times more area than a thousand peasants with a plow and a horse. Now in most countries, less than 2% of the population produces more food than the country's population needs. They don’t know what to do. In the same Europe, they pay extra to farmers to reduce sown areas.

Talk that one employee cannot feed one pensioner is also not economically speculated. The average pension is several times less than the average salary. The average pensioner pays contributions for 40 years, and lives on retirement only 10. This means that the money of the pension fund is simply used inefficiently.

Talk that retirees cost trillions to the budget is also debatable. Pensioners do not put this money into capsules, but spend it. So most of this money will return to the budget in the form of taxes. And contribute to the development of the necessary industries. People buy what they personally need, so the money spent by the population goes mainly to what the population needs directly. This distinguishes the spending of the population from the spending of officials.

And most importantly: nowhere in developed countries, there is no shortage of workers. There is a shortage of jobs. Therefore, there is absolutely no need to detain pensioners at work.

Order needs to be put in place. Deal with a bunch of benefits for payment and receipt. Then the balance will come together.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Cube123

You do not understand the economics of the process. Labor productivity is growing.

Aging faster than that growth.

Quote: Cube123

Now in most countries less than 2% the population produces more food than the population of the country needs.

In Western Europe, 23% of the population is rural.

Quote: Cube123

But one farmer with a tractor and a combine cultivates many times more area than a thousand peasants with a plow and a horse

A combine with a plow are born from the air? And the numerous chemistry, equipment, etc.?

Quote: Cube123

Talk that one employee cannot feed one pensioner is also not economically motivated. speculation. The average pension is several times less than the average salary. The average pensioner pays contributions for 40 years, and lives on retirement only 10. This means that the money of the pension fund is simply used inefficiently.

Yes, yes, everywhere there are “speculators” —in Germany, and in the USA, etc. Do not forget, by the way, that depopulation started here earlier than in all developed countries of the West — from 1964

Quote: Cube123

Talk that retirees cost trillions to the budget is also debatable.

The scary thing is not what the pensions cost today, but what they will pour out tomorrow, because the number of pensioners is growing rapidly, and the working ones are being reduced ..

Quote: Cube123

the main thing: nowhere in developed countries, there is no shortage of workers. There is a shortage of jobs.

There is one thing and how paradoxical it sounds: the Germans launch rabies not only because they are Tlerasts, but also because there are fewer and fewer young people.
The same in France, in Canada, Australia.

Quote: Cube123

Order needs to be put in place. Deal with a bunch of benefits for payment and receipt. Then the balance will come together.

I agree, it is necessary. You can pinch the oligarchs, etc., but this will only delay the decision, but will not cancel the tendency to aging and, accordingly, raising the penny. age.

[Cube123]

Quote: Olgovich

this will only postpone the decision, but will not abolish the tendency of aging and, accordingly, the raising of pensions. age.

I don’t believe that the aging of the population and raising the retirement age are somehow connected. Understand that an elderly person is physically unable to work on a par with a young person. Those. the elderly are simply uncompetitive compared to the young. And the latest technology is much more difficult for the elderly to master. Where dozens of machine tool workers used to work, now one CNC machine is doing it. And two or three operators can serve a whole workshop of such machines. But a person, after forty, is no longer able to master the work of such an operator. And what he studied in his youth is already simply often outdated.
So it turns out that the elderly are less productive than the young. And the attempt to secure them by force in production will lead only to one thing - a slowdown in the country's economy. And the benefit of such a fixation is very doubtful. At least until I see the queues of employers who want to hire exactly 60+, I will not believe in the need for such a reform.

[ARES623]

Quote: Cube123

Understand that an elderly person is physically unable to work on a par with a young

You come to the real production, look at the turners and locksmiths, with rare exceptions from 55 to 70 years. Engineers AZ-37 (APRS-40) worked in my transport workshop as whole teams at the age of 60 years. And quite successfully. If today all 60+ would have left production at once, it would have collapsed overnight.

[Cube123]

Quote: ARES623

Quote: Cube123

Understand that an elderly person is physically unable to work on a par with a young

You come to the real production, look at the turners and locksmiths, with rare exceptions from 55 to 70 years. Engineers AZ-37 (APRS-40) worked in my transport workshop as whole teams at the age of 60 years. And quite successfully. If today all 60+ would have left production at once, it would have collapsed overnight.

No need to flip. This is not about the right to work, but about the obligation to work longer. Work longer and now no one forbids. But many will not have such an opportunity after the reform. The government just wants to make life easier by throwing the need to take care of the elderly on their own shoulders.
All my friends were out of work at 50-55 +. He himself was unemployed and interrupted by casual earnings from 54 to 57 years. Therefore, I understand people of this age well.

[ARES623]

Quote: Cube123

This is not about the right to work, but about the obligation to work longer.

There is no such obligation. As there is no obligation to think. Some think, others think what they think, others do not think at all, and they are all within the same legal framework. In our country there is no prosecution of parasitism, as in the USSR. Then many cried from the “totalitarian regime”, then they all chose to run the EBN, now - the tears from “free capitalism”. What we have is not stored ...

[Cube123]

Quote: ARES623

Quote: Cube123

This is not about the right to work, but about the obligation to work longer.

There is no such obligation.

You at least think a little before you write. Extending the retirement period is precisely the obligation to work longer.

[ARES623]

Quote: Cube123

it is the duty to work longer.

Duty is an imperative requirement that must be fulfilled. An obligation is always accompanied by a force forcing one to fulfill. This was in accordance with the Criminal Code of the RSFSR, article 209. Today, a lot of people live with illegal rent of hereditary apartments, while receiving insurance under the MHIF, as a non-working population. In our case, it is the need to obtain a living income. I think there is nothing to add.

[AK1972]

Quote: ARES623

Today, a lot of people live with illegal rent of hereditary apartments, while receiving insurance under the MHIF, as a non-working population.

I totally agree. But such incomes to live on rent receive only in Moscow and some other large cities. and beyond the Moscow Ring Road at least some pension from a working pensioner is an opportunity to help children and grandchildren (for example, pay a son or daughter a mortgage).

[210ox]

But didn’t you think why it collapsed? Women don’t give birth?! Or doesn’t the youth go to the “dirty and not prestigious”!?. Who is being trained after school now? Machinists and machine operators, well, probably now operators?. Managers, lawyers, etc. That's why not only production, taxes and the Pension Fund are in decline

Quote: ARES623

Quote: Cube123

Understand that an elderly person is physically unable to work on a par with a young

You come to the real production, look at the turners and locksmiths, with rare exceptions from 55 to 70 years. Engineers AZ-37 (APRS-40) worked in my transport workshop as whole teams at the age of 60 years. And quite successfully. If today all 60+ would have left production at once, it would have collapsed overnight.

[ARES623]

Quote: 210ox

youth does not go to "dirty and not prestigious

And these young people are all foundlings? Or are these our children?

Quote: 210ox

Managers, lawyers, etc. That is why not only production, taxes and the Pension Fund are in decline

Where we “kicked” them, they went there ... It’s their own fault. Here we are raking.

Quote: 210ox

Women do not give birth ?!

Childless families approx. 20%, with one child - 65%. Anything else to think about?

[210ox]

By the way, about work after 60. We have no work at the main production with that age, we would not have pulled. There is an electrician who was immediately transferred to a lower-paid job. That would not be responsible for him at night, you never know. Age and health .Now the office is sweeping with a broom. And he needs it? By hook or by crook, the employer will get rid of age-old workers. And there is no other job, well, not all businessmen have accumulated millions. And about the children. I have four. One graduated from high school- a cook, but there’s no work. That's all taxes and a pension fund. We need to think about (not for us of course) to give people work and development opportunities, and not just to swallow it. For thought, I do not need to give an example of the West. We are in Russia By the way, in the same all of us, the oath of Ukraine did not go to raise the age .. This is better for you to think or to ponder

Quote: ARES623

Quote: 210ox

youth does not go to "dirty and not prestigious

And these young people are all foundlings? Or are these our children?

Quote: 210ox

Managers, lawyers, etc. That is why not only production, taxes and the Pension Fund are in decline

Where we “kicked” them, they went there ... It’s their own fault. Here we are raking.

Quote: 210ox

Women do not give birth ?!

Childless families approx. 20%, with one child - 65%. Anything else to think about?

[ARES623]

Quote: 210ox

It’s better you should think or ponder

I have two children. One has already graduated from a university with graduate school and is working in a specialty far in our city. The second graduates from school next year, for which specialty they have not yet decided to go, but the direction is already visible. And we are specifically working in this matter with the involvement of additional assistants. We strive to choose a popular specialty. In the near future, the state will not be concerned about the employment of an individual, therefore parents are more responsible for the device of their child.

[ty60]

Mostly officials and deputies. Their children will always be satisfied.

[Vadim237]

With one child - 65% - In Moscow with two, probably more than half.

[ARES623]

Quote: Vadim237

In Moscow, with two, probably more than half

I am not in Moscow, but I think that the situation there is no better. Sources differing from those given earlier give the following: childless - 48%, with one child 34, with 2 - 15%, large children - 3%. The picture is also not joyful.

[Vadim237]

In my house, three have four children, in the one where the mother lives, five have two families.

[Oleko]

Quote: Cube123

Understand that an elderly person is physically unable to work on a par with a young person. Those. the elderly are simply uncompetitive compared to the young. And the latest technology is much more difficult for the elderly to master.

Even as it can. A real example in front of my eyes. The wife is an experienced designer. In the design business (she is a network designer) we need experience that comes only over the years. And she is 67 and the director of the company told her: "I am very glad that you work in my company." I once asked her: “Well, and if you quit, then ...?” “Came out and came in,” answered the spouse - “they will accept without talking.” So, not in all professions, youth is the trump card.

[Cube123]

Quote: Oleko

Quote: Cube123

Understand that an elderly person is physically unable to work on a par with a young person. Those. the elderly are simply uncompetitive compared to the young. And the latest technology is much more difficult for the elderly to master.

Even as it can. A real example in front of my eyes. The wife is an experienced designer. In the design business (she is a network designer) we need experience that comes only over the years. And she is 67 and the director of the company told her: "I am very glad that you work in my company." I once asked her: “Well, and if you quit, then ...?” “Came out and came in,” answered the spouse - “they will accept without talking.” So, not in all professions, youth is the trump card.

There are always exceptions that only confirm the rules.

Well, let's, according to your logice, recruit a soccer team of 60+ athletes. We’ll put a 90-year-old at the gate, there is no need to run much there. The experience of these athletes hoo. And put up such a team for the World Cup. What will be the result - do you need to explain? You can still train at that age, but running around the field is gone. But trainers need at times less. What to do with the athletes who are out in circulation?

Laws are written not for exceptions, but for the majority of the population. What to do with pilots and drivers who cannot pass the medical examination. IT people with eyes set to 50 years old. Let's make ballet dancers retire not at 45, but at 55. Let Romeo and Juliet play sixties. In many professions there is an age qualification. Do you think he just appeared?

In order to understand what the artificial detention of the population at work leads to, just look at Zyuganov and Zhirinovsky. And remember what they were ten years ago. Now they are already a brake on the development of the country and to detain such people in power is a crime. This is just a good example.

Sadly, the elderly are not competitive. And their artificial detention at work will slow down the development of the country. And reduce its competitiveness. The example of a football team was not just taken from the air.

[Sergej1972]

A little correction. In the West, the majority of rural residents are not employed in agriculture.

[Igor V]

. But one farmer with a tractor and a combine cultivates many times more area than a thousand peasants with a plow and a horse

Someone else believes in a fairy tale about a farmer !!

[210ox]

I believe, because I live next to them. The truth is not just one farmer, but at least two or three on his grab, and on the hacienda they are somewhat guarded and keep an eye on cattle.

Quote: Igor V

. But one farmer with a tractor and a combine cultivates many times more area than a thousand peasants with a plow and a horse

Someone else believes in a fairy tale about a farmer !!

[97110]

Quote: Cube123

Then the balance will come together.

I doubt it. In your balance sheet under what article do the hosts go? And their children? Which did not hold anything heavier than a glass in a hand, but what passion is useful for production? This is the issue of PF deficiency. If you measure in yachts, how many yachts do they not need? Or in the "geldings", confiscated from Mary? Maybe the other riders can be taken away? How will this affect the balance sheet? And then after all, they will burn up, as in Paris this morning.

[saigon]

Sly mister, they simply didn’t look for a good way out of the lack of weight. I do not care deeply about Germany and Moldova, I live in Russia and I don’t like it when citizens of my country try to engage in banal theft under the guise of pension reform.
It turns me off when adults are lied to by all sorts of characters about the great benefits of reform, probably considering the citizens of my country as wicked as they are.
For which the government of losers will not undertake everything will fail, they will fail this venture too.
And then the guarantor deigned to give a subtle hint - you guys went for a drive. Oh about the skins, it shakes at the edrosnya. and how they didn’t please their zeal not for the main reason, but soon the elections, and there the hell will come out just the hell people will forgive him this vote.
We are waiting for the second act of the Marlezon ballet with changing shoes on the fly performed by edrosnya.

[Zadayvoprosy]

And then the guarantor deigned to give a subtle hint - you guys went for a drive. Oh about the skins, it shakes at the edrosnya. but how did they not please with their zeal not according to the main reason?

Well, what is it like small children? The scheme is as old as the world ... The main one tearfully asks to vote for edro before the elections, and after the elections, he rejects them in every possible way, they say I don’t know who they are, I see them for the first time, but at the same time they are all hit by negativity accept.
And the main one - a knight on a white horse with his finger threatens right and left and everyone groans with admiration.
Do not whitewash those who are in the same harness, they just cunningly assigned roles ...

[saigon]

We look forward to new notes with a trembling voice from the edrosny began to distribute with a realization screwed up in front of the Knight on a white horse.
We are waiting for a guarantor there about 10 years, deigned to say, we look at how it will turn. It is how people come out, they have angered faith in the government and so they have not trampled a great thing into a badly called substance. I say losers why they won’t undertake the result. One didn’t get hands and brains are visible, curves or such karma. )))))))

[97110]

Quote: saigon

We look forward to new notes with a trembling voice from the edrosny began to distribute

But the owners of Russian life, suffering in London and Miami under the yoke of class friends from the United States and the UK, did not receive your attention? Well, thanks to their efforts, pension reform became necessary before the cut, clowns from edra fulfill their order. Money in the PF is a seductive thing, well, real bourgeoisie cannot pass by. Why give them to retirees? It is possible to master through capitalist customs. And enough for pensioners - they’ve lived, it's time and honor to know.

[common man]

Quote: Olgovich

And there’s simply no other way out - the population is aging catastrophically quickly

Sorry, do not confuse soft with round. Look at the statistics, analyze the speeches of the same officials. We do not have the life expectancy of older people growing. We just have a demographic pit of 20-30 year olds. due to falling birth rates in the 90s, zero years. The number of potentially working for retirees is reduced. First of all, our government is guilty of this. And now they solve their mistakes as always. Instead of working to increase the incomes of the PFR (and there are a lot of reserves there), we decided to reduce the number of pensioners, i.e. expenses. That's just when the demographic pit straightens out, (at least when the current young people become pensioners), and the retirement age will not be lowered,
Maybe at least they will make pensions 2 times higher than the average salary?

[edasko]

In Germany, the process of raising the retirement age began in 2012 and will end in 2029. The retirement age will increase from 65 to 67 for men and women. Authorities are planning an increase of one month per year, then two. The right to early retirement are citizens of 63 years old, with a work experience of 45 years. Why are we so brutal? Immediately after the election and during the World Cup? In the States, Reagan also announced an increase in age in my opinion over 20 years. Well, the guarantor would say before the election that will increase the retirement age. Was it annoying? And now everyone’s brainwashes - yes, I am against, but I don’t like it, but everything will collapse.

[Sergej1972]

So with us the process will be stretched to the turn of the 20-30s.

[edasko]

"In the United States in 1983, President Ronald Reagan said that due to the increase in life expectancy and the number of pensioners, a gradual increase in the retirement age will begin, and also by 2 years. Moreover, he made a reservation: it will begin only in 2000, that is, only after 17 years . " There is a difference? He announced this essentially to the next generation, so that people can plan their lives.

[edasko]

And what a wonderful one, this Reagan. He made an unpopular decision in the middle of his first presidential term. And he was not afraid that the voter would send him. Moron, in short.

[Fungus]

The same is with us. There was no noise. Although we have demography normally shows. So for other reasons they raised it?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Fungus

Although we have demography normally shows.

"The population of Kazakhstan aging with fertility decline"https://www.kt.kz/

[sapporo1959]

In Belarus, only three, and then immediately five, and therefore asked. But the guarantor has already dispelled doubts! It is necessary to accept while the PRF is still alive. So Russians can already be congratulated on joining the centenarians ....

[Zadayvoprosy]

Perhaps, in one with you, the author does not agree:

Actress Is this something missing? Pits do not dig. "Chemistry" do not breathe. We, psychos, in public transport do not carry. But it turns out there are problems there ... They also have “mines digging there”. Only others ...

I don’t think that people should be silent if specifically them don't concern the problem. After all, many express solidarity to those who are difficult and right to do, you can’t always plug your ears and shout, "but I'm fine, nothing has touched me la-la-la."

[Egoza]

Well done! Now another people in other cities would rise. And the government would think about other sources of replenishment of the pension fund. For example, about non-working “golden youth” like Mary Bogdasaryan. We must, we must return to the slogan "who does not work, he does not eat" for such "fluttering". Employment without fail! What? No jobs available? Oh, I doubt it. And employers must oblige, first of all, Russians to provide work, and then "visitors"

[olimpiada15]

I put a plus, but there is one caveat about Mary. If she spends time fumbling, it does not mean that she "does not work." It is possible that she is an "effective manager" with a salary of ~ 1-2 million, it is clear that her job responsibilities began and ended with a single signature in a job application,

[Vadim237]

She just sits on someone's neck.

[Reptiloid]

Quote: Egoza

...... "who does not work, he does not eat" for such "fluttering". Employment without fail! ....

Sorry, Elena, I do not agree with you. Let them continue to hang out, drink and thump ..... Only ---- The main thing is not to let cars in .... Can they even work? Only spoil everything or worse, for bribes, any lawlessness in their thieves will commit ....

[Egoza]

Quote: Reptiloid

How can they even work? Only they will ruin everything, or even worse, for committing bribes, they will commit any lawlessness in their thieves ..

So I'm not talking about thieves. It is necessary to "arrange" such wipers. They won’t work - they’ll pay the entire salary to the pension fund, and they won’t count the length of the “employee”. But then there will be an increase in the pension fund. Although, if they wanted to, they would come up with a “what and how”

[mark1]

"... Brothers flayer,
why are you me !?
why are you me, for what? ... "
Agatha Christie

[pafegosoff]

Yeah! That is still a hole ... I live in three hours of a slow drive to this settlement (Distant Place of Exile of Convicts).
Housing costs a million miles cheaper than in our village.
I don’t know how Khrunicheva will fly there ...
And all their radio engineering, engine building, aircraft manufacturing, tank building ...
Kharkov, however!

[prapor55]

The tank moves, sort of and everything else slowly shows signs of life asking for an injection for every breath. Omsk is the only city where there is a metro bridge, but there will be no metro, where the airport is within the city, there are still trolleybuses but no trolleybus depot sold it.

[midshipman]

Omichi, victory for you to prevent this reform. In the 80s, a very powerful Electrotechnical Plant named after To Marx. He belonged to the MCI of the USSR. He worked in 3 shifts (the director was Karteshkov N.A., Chief engineer G. Solopov). Often you had to come to you, it was necessary to launch new special products and consumer goods. At the factory, the average age of specialists was 33 years. And now I read youth flees from the city. Where?

[prapor55]

Trade there now, the center all the same.

[free]

Quote: midshipman

Omichi, victory for you to prevent this reform. In the 80s, a very powerful Electrotechnical Plant named after To Marx. He belonged to the MCI of the USSR. He worked in 3 shifts (the director was Karteshkov N.A., Chief engineer G. Solopov). Often you had to come to you, it was necessary to launch new special products and consumer goods. At the factory, the average age of specialists was 33 years. And now I read youth flees from the city. Where?

It’s not for you, for us! The whole country must rise as Omsk did. Only together with a united front can the bourgeoisie abandon his cannibalistic plans.

[kotvov]

now I read youth is running out of town. ,,
Dear midshipman, you don’t know where. They’ve corrupted the people beautiful films where they just sit (or fly) the loot. I’m far away from Omsk, but we have the same picture, we don’t have jobs, that is, does not generate income ( break off and only) that’s where the young run away, who does. where is our abstruse government, like the senior citizen above.

[prapor55]

And everyone is striving for non-rubber Sobyaninsk for the same work, they get more and they say enough.

[a housewife]

Yuri Grigoryevich! To the best city on Earth! The same paradise is being built on earth. There is a lot of work, beautiful streets, everything is lit day and night. And what holidays! And how many benefits of civilization! From shops to MSU. There is a Muscovite magic card, there is medical care, there are benefits. True, those who came to Muscovites "came in large numbers", but according to KVN - "the limit with ambitions is a terrible force!" And when the entire population gradually moves to non-rubber, then they will call the country New Muscovy, and we will live! - Wow !!!! And we, an endangered species - pensioners, will for some time be called the population of Russia.

[parusnik]

Omsk, albeit a million-plus city, but not Moscow. One of the centers of the dying region.

... It is somehow sad ... Omsk, a dying city ... With its industrial enterprises ... The district center Sidelnikovo, probably already died ...

[Vadim237]

Yes, this is the city of garbage, the local administration and the head of the region do not care

[parusnik]

And where is the rubbish written in my comment ...? ... My town is also becoming prettier ... The shopping center is already 6, the streets are clean, landscaping ... But one thing, those enterprises that were before democratic Russia, 90% disappeared either works half-heartedly on imported raw materials, or is engaged in something that is not necessary in order to survive .. Young people are leaving the city, state enterprises have been reduced in winter, more massive ones will still be in September ...

Omsk, albeit a million-plus city, but not Moscow. One of the centers of the dying region. It is still a large city, from which young people flee even faster than old people die. The city is the opposite. A city growing back. The city where the population is constantly aging

..... Convince the author who lives there ... Why did you write this to me? ... For what purpose ...?

[prapor55]

I don’t have to convince me, the city is not a dump, and the people here are normal.

[Vadim237]

You do not restrain yourself - serve.

[Dzafdet]

Quote: S_Baykala

At 2016 in Belarus, the retirement age was simply raised. On 3 of the year. And no one asked anyone. That's right - that's all.

Your economic situation is different. Here we are talking about the fact that instead of raising taxes on the rich, putting things in order with imports, budget expenditures, they stupidly go into the people’s pocket. A person, for example, will pay dues for 40 years and die. And the money is bye bye, only officials and thieves will get it ...

[In h]

It’s beautifully written, it’s a direct tear, it can only ask the protesters ... how is it that a third of the working population does not pay taxes to the same pension fund and how many of those among the protesters. For years, often getting a good salary, they don’t want to pay anything, but everyone wants a pension and a big one. And we all know such people. But even because of them, those who have worked all their lives and honestly paid everything receive not large pensions. This part that doesn’t pay is sitting on the others’s neck, but they are ready to hold a rally in the forefront. A mechanic working at a factory with a salary of 25 thousand pays his taxes .. and minibus drivers who get 2 times as much .. just often and really aren’t they don’t pay anything to anyone .. builders .. sellers .. truck drivers .. but give me the pension! Let at the expense of others. And yet ... maybe you need to think about your children .. if there is no reform .. what should I get? There’s a lot of other things in the country that we don’t want to, but we need to solve problems and not get away from it. In the late 80s and early 90s, after listening to the drunken delirium of the giant of thought .. many wanted a capitalist paradise and the majority decided to become "free" and work only on "MYSELF." It only quickly became clear that all this was far from true .. and freedom doesn’t mean that you don’t have to pay taxes, which have become more .. and the SCM will work only for YOURSELF .. it won’t work out.

[The Siberian barber]

About taxes, you correctly noticed!
BUT .. What do you think: our taxation system corresponds to the rate declared by the "party and government"?))
Why, in tax law, a huge number of "windows and doors"?)
I humbly keep silent about the progressive scale, for the question is not in it (although it would not hurt, either)
And, the main question: why do people go "into the shadows"?

[Fox]

Omsk ... Togliatti is the leader in unemployment and outflow of the population.!

[Rurikovich]

People, the dream of any state is a healthy working citizen, regularly paying taxes and who died on the day of retirement!

[military pensioner]

Dimon Ayfonka reads this and says: “Dogs bark, and the caravan creeps, that is, it will still be my way”
And this is really scary when the ruling class of PEDROSni people considers for the silent bydityatnoy.

[tank66]

Directly imagined. As the tadpole checks the toilet smile in the mirror, straightens his tie, and humming under his breath: "I'll leave to live in London .."

[Normal ok]

Union Federation rally!

Trade unions are completely controlled by the authorities. Therefore, the authorities will in every way help them to "fight" with themselves. To eventually drain everything slowly into the sewer.

[voile]

From 1990 to 15 years to work in the forestry industry, in the winter for tomatoes in the snow, in the summer for enti the most in the water on the rafting, from 2014 to the Russian Railways, the benefit did not work for her, but the medical commission as in space, and how to finalize until retirement when doctors they’ll say you can’t plow-scat with Russian Railways and all the hell work worthwhile find (((

[common man]

Quote: Wojpel

and how to finalize until retirement when the doctors say you can’t plow, shave with RZD and all the hell

That you just do not work there. Drop everything, retrain, move to Moscow, get into the office as a “manager”, get a good salary, lead a healthy lifestyle, play sports and will live up to a hundred years and grumble "why retirement is 65, not 85. I'm so I want to work.
PS the opinion of the author of this opus does not coincide with the nonsense given here

[voile]

yeah in Moscow they are waiting for a limit from the north) I'm used to working with my hands and not selling what others have created, but as for sports, our life in the north is cooler than your sports

[prapor55]

Don’t be afraid of their campaign this year they gave the command to heal everyone, they signed me in April with wide eyes, because this madhouse has not endured youth for a long time, it’s better to work in a taxi than to work in a locomotive for 12 hours all night.

[konstantin68]

Why aren't all these people at work? Especially which are on the top photo?
Maybe there would be no deficit in PF then?

[iouris]

Quote: konstantin68

Why aren't all these people at work?

Yes, where is the government looking? Why aren't all these people digging ditches “from this pillar to lunch” in Norilsk?

[prapor55]

Everything just July 1st is Watson Sunday.

[naidas]

Quote: prapor55

Everything is simple July 1st is Sunday

It's just that this is a government flaw. Wait 12 hours at work and cancel the weekend.

[iouris]

The actual problem is eating up the “top” income, which has shown the inability to ensure the development of the state through the emancipation of productive forces. They are interested in emergency action and simply provoke the population to perform.

[kitt409]

Quote: ARES623

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Omsk respected, everyone needs to react, let them think ...

Exactly. And let them think, THEY. But we don’t want to think, we can’t, we don’t want to. Give us terrible tales. Type - "I work for wear and tear. I will most likely not see my own pension certificate. But today I pay money to a pension fund. Give my children the money! My children!" - Do not work for wear, go to another job, upgrade your qualifications and go to the one that does not wear out. There are not many options, but there are. But you need to THINK about it. And we also like fairy tales - "I pay to a pension fund." Who pays in PF? Show me the “payroll” with the line “listed in the FIU”. This is the employer for the right to open a full-time unit, to which he invites the employee, pays to the PFR and other social security funds ....

You are offering us to think, but many have already thought - you are offering to retrain, not for wear and tear - and is it always possible? Very often not, for various reasons - the town is small, the age is already considerable, moving is impossible ... continue to continue?
And about the fact that the employer pays - it’s not even funny if he didn’t pay it, the employee would get more, so ultimately the employee pays, it’s his money ...
It reminds the indignation of individual employers that "the bastard aunts become pregnant, give birth, and I pay for them," when you tell such a person that he does NOT pay in the end, he is so surprised)

[sabakina]

Probably, such self-confidence comes over the years.

Yes, there is one. It was more accurate. Imperial link, penal servitude, Cossacks nagayki, city ....

[voile]

Quote: Wojpel

From 1990 to 15 years to work in the forestry industry, in the winter for tomatoes in the snow, in the summer for enti the most in the water on the rafting, from 2004 to the Russian Railways, the benefit did not work for her, but the medical commission as in space, and how to finalize until retirement when doctors they’ll say you can’t plow-scat with Russian Railways and all the hell work worthwhile find (((

[prapor55]

sabakina,
Well, maybe I don’t pretend to. My profile is honest.

[bandabas]

And they will decide without us.

[APASUS]

You guys live in a capitalist country where the main factor in doing business is the rate of return! What guarantees, what employment?
THERE, people already do not see the peaks due to zeros in their pockets !!!

[Ivan Petrov-Vodkin]

Meanwhile, our government continues to broadcast that pension reform is good for us. In this whole situation, this is what angers me the most. Their blatant lies, hypocrisy. Their blind faith is that the people are brainless. That they can promise them anything, they will believe.

[tank64rus]

It's time to bring down in the USSR-2 and that's it.

[Vadim237]

So bring down in the USSR 2 - what is the problem.

[tank64rus]

In people like you

[Signaller]

I actually eat ear. . What does the pensioners have to do with ??. They ALREADY receive everything. They want to see more, not otherwise

[A.]

Putin-Chubais liberal aligarchic elite resigned. Down with the anti-people government and the president.

[Sasha_Sar]

ARES623,
Excuse me, are you by any chance not due to the political leaders?

[ARES623]

Quote: kitt409

Very often not, for various reasons - the town is small, the age is already considerable, moving is impossible ... continue to continue?

But what, eyes just opened today? There are things that need to be done on time, i.e. early. So you go retired? What are the worries about?

[ARES623]

Quote: kitt409

And about the fact that the employer pays - it’s not even funny if he didn’t pay, the employee would get more,

Regarding your pension, sorry, got excited. Judging by naive reasoning, you are not yet a graduate of the United States.

[Strategia]

That person wrote well about retirement.
"There is an opinion that in Russia the state pays pensions to citizens. Monstrous misconception. There are no pensions in Russia.
Again, you are too lazy to consider and everything will have to be done for you. The average salary in Russia is 36000. The average pension is 13000.
Suppose a person has been working since the age of 21 and his seniority at retirement at 60 was 39 years. We presume that all his life he consistently received an average salary of 36 thousand. For all his work, his contributions to the pension fund will amount to 468 months, multiplied by 22% of the salary (7920 rubles) is 3 706 560 rubles. Just to get only your money back, a person needs to live 23 years after retirement. Only in the 84th year of his life will he begin to receive money from the state.
Everyone who did not live up to 84 years of age, the state fooled and robbed.
Given the average life expectancy of 66 years, it becomes obvious that the state does not pay pensioners a ruble of state money. Only robs.
After raising the retirement age to 65 years, a man will have a chance to receive the first state ruble at 93 years old.
The state does not pay any pensions to people in our country. This is just a mathematical fact.