Military Review

Grachev-94 and Kiriyenko-98: similar roles?

38
In the film TVC “Pavel Grachev. Power Strike ", posted on 15 September 2015 on YouTube, the contradictions are obvious in matters on which I have long had a strong opinion.


Grachev-94 and Kiriyenko-98: similar roles?


At the 26 minute of the film, the announcer said: “Even before the storming of Grozny, Pavel Grachev met several times with Dzhokhar Dudayev. They have been familiar since the days of Afghanistan. Grachev tried to convince the leader of Ichkeria to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. ” Further - S.V. Stepashin: “And Dzhokhar says to him:“ I can do nothing. I am a hostage to the situation. I will fight to the last. ” Paul says to him: “What are you, stupid, or what? This is the army! This is not a joke! "". Announcer: “But the leader of Ichkeria wanted Yeltsin personally to negotiate with him with respect.” Then - journalist E. Kirichenko: “It was enough just one phone call. Dudayev himself spoke about this to Poltoranin when they met. Dudayev would have turned into a dog of the same kind as Grachev. And Chechnya would never break away from Russia. ” Next, journalist V. Baranets: “What did he say, Yeltsin? “So that this stinking shepherd shook my hand in the Kremlin?”

First, why did the announcer decide that if Dudayev admits himself a hostage to the situation, he wants to negotiate with Yeltsin? What's the point of this? M.N. Poltoranin, in 1990-1992 - Minister of Press and Information of the Russian Federation, and in 1992 - Deputy Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation, in his memoirs, this is how Dudayev sent his request to Yeltsin: “Tell Boris Nikolayevich that I earnestly ask you to meet him. Meetings without any noise. I have some serious suggestions. We had a long conversation with Dudayev. It's amazing how frank he was. So much so that I had a doubt: did Johar sleep our vigilance? Not for the sake of meeting with the president to speculate on this fact? "(Poltoranin M. Power in TNT equivalent. The legacy of Tsar Boris. M., 2010, p. 231-232).

Poltoranin confirms that Dudayev really was under the control of his own entourage: “I noticed: at the talks, when Yandarbiyev was next, Dudayev behaved tough, intractable, and changed without him, he became a prudent interlocutor, as if he were freed from the press . True, it was impossible to break away from Zelimkhan: Dudaev and I went outside to breathe — he was near, we, talking too much, stopped on the stairs — he immediately hurried to us (after the murder of Dzhokhar, Zelimkhan would immediately become Ichkeria’s president) ... Zelimkhan was stuck in networks special services of Turkey, Jordan and God knows what other countries. Literally before his eyes, he was reborn as an implacable enemy of Russia and became the main ideologue of separatism in the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. With ferocious zeal, he played the role of overseas politicians in the North Caucasus entrusted to him by foreign chefs. And managed the finances that came “from there” to warm up Vainakhia ”(p. 223-224).

Secondly, apparently, Dudayev spoke to Poltoranin not about a phone call from Yeltsin, but about a personal meeting. Where did E. Kirichenko think that after this conversation “Dudayev would have turned into the same devoted dog as Grachev,” even if Yeltsin had agreed with Dudayev on conditions most favorable to the latter for the future? Doesn't the journalist understand that Dudayev really didn’t belong to himself, and that he needed a conversation with Yeltsin as a trump card against the local opposition? Moreover, Chechnya has already begun to break away from Russia!

Third, with regard to the words of Baranza: but then Yeltsin had already pressed Dudayev’s hand in the Kremlin by that time. By the way, where did he get the quotation about “stinking shepherd”?

To confirm my words, let me give two quotes from the memoirs of two more statesmen of the time in question.

R.S. Mukhamadiev, in 1990-1993 years. - The head of the permanent commission under the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR on culture and national issues, gave a capacious description of the state disintegration under Yeltsin: “At the beginning of the 90, when the collapse of the Soviet Union began, after Russia and the Union republics, yesterday’s autonomous states were involved in the sovereignty parade. of the republic. Yes, I emphasize, they were drawn. The desire for self-determination of the republics was provoked from the center, namely the leaders of democratic Russia. I happened to be a witness when a young, handsome Soviet General Dudayev was being held in the reception room of Boris Yeltsin, who was then the chairman of the RSFSR Supreme Soviet. He stood beside him when Burbulis reassured him, advised him not to worry, and for the first time took Yeltsin into the office. And just a few days later, a coup took place in the city of Grozny, as a result of which “the place of the conservative communist Zavgayev was taken by the democratically-minded young general Dzhokhar Dudayev”. It was literally written, almost all Moscow newspapers stated. I remember how the democrats were happy about this event, sent congratulatory telegrams to Grozny.

Dudayev was specially invited, persuaded in Moscow and given to him weapon, promised full support. This is the work of Yeltsin and his team, he is their product. It was then that he became interested in independence, was out of control of Yeltsin. If they had not found Dudayev then, they would have found another and would have provoked him. This war was invented by militant democrats to solve their more important strategic goals of the economic plan. In muddy water, the fish is well caught, so they robbed the whole country ”(R. Muhamadiev Wreck Chronicle of rabid days. M., 2002, p. 116).

Muhammadiev's words are confirmed by Yu.M. Voronin, in 1991-1993 - Deputy Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Russian Federation: “Since Chechnya, under Dudayev, was one of the first to support the elimination of the Supreme Council of the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic (read: the regional committee of the CPSU, since the posts of first secretary of the party and the chairman of the Supreme Council were combined), ”, Encouraging the process of sovereignty, of course, took an active part in the destruction of the Supreme Council of the autonomous republic. G. Burbulis, M. Poltoranin, G. Starovoitova, F. Shelov-Kovedyaev worked most actively in the collapse of Chechnya. At the first stage, they openly put on D. Dudayev, against the current leadership of the Supreme Soviet of the republic, and especially the regional party committee, but at the same time tried to reach an agreement with him and other local politicians on ways to achieve a peaceful, “democratic” solution to the issue of power in Chechnya. Soon they had to make sure that Dudayev was an extremely absurd, ambitious, non-constructive and, most importantly, insincere partner. He easily changed positions and defiantly did not fulfill his obligations ”(Voronin Yu.M. Strapped Russia: political and economic portrait of Yeltsinism. M., 2003, p. 406).

With the help of rather large quotations, I tried to keep the context of the thoughts of the above authors. From Mukhamadiev’s quotation, we can conclude that Dudayev “threw” Yeltsin not for that, in order to return to his hand again. And Voronin clearly points to the inconsistency and rogue Dudaev. It would be extremely naive to believe that Dudayev saw himself as a Yeltsin’s man even for a minute and that he could become for Yeltsin what R.A. Kadyrov for V.V. Putin's

The same Poltoranin writes: “I cannot help saying ... about the role of the trinity - Yeltsin, Khasbulatov, Gaidar - in instilling a regime hostile to Russia in the Caucasus. How did it happen that not the Vainakh adat gave way to the laws of civilization in our country, and the country took the wildest norms of adat as a rule of life? ”(P. 193). I can clarify that the adat (local Caucasian customs) has always stood above the provisions of the Shari'a - general Muslim legal norms.

The most disgusting thing to admit is that the Chechen conflict of the beginning of the 90s, with its escalation into war, was conceived in Moscow. Why Chechnya? The Chechens themselves played along with the Moscow “democrats” by staging persecution of non-Chechens, that is, ethnic cleansing, at the beginning of the 90's: this did not happen in other regions of post-Soviet Russia, including in other Caucasian republics. Poltoranin: “For some reason, it is believed that the anti-Russian orgy in Chechnya began with the arrival of Dudayev. No, Dudayev got up just on this wave. Having received an indulgence from the Khrushchev team, the mountaineers set to work on their own and began to build their lives according to the inhuman norms of the adats, from which Kazakhstan had weaned them. Anti-Russian propaganda was long held in the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic at the official level. I have been to this republic many times and observed how the officials themselves persistently raised the degree of hatred of the Vainakhs towards all foreigners ”(p. 219).

There were, of course, other reasons for the situation in the Caucasus at the beginning of the 90s, but this is a topic for another big conversation.

Nevertheless, the analogy of the situation with Chechnya in the military sphere (as the most painful for the people) and the situation with the default 1998. Suggests itself. As in the war, the enemies of Russia earned, so they earned a default. As ps Grachev was not fit for the post of Minister of Defense, and S.V. Kiriyenko was no good for the post of prime minister. Someone must have been in 90-s. here and there become extreme ...
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On the training of biennial officers who fought in the first Chechen
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  1. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah 9 July 2018 05: 25
    +5
    Dudaev was not a shepherd. His teip was from warriors-mercenaries. But Kadyrov was really from the teip of shepherds. So the Chechens said to me anyway. I agree that both Grachev and Kiriyenko were chosen as the most odious personalities ready for a career to do anything. There are even now ..
    1. Grandfather
      Grandfather 9 July 2018 06: 06
      +10
      Grachev-94 and Kiriyenko-98: similar roles?
      not ... one: Pasha Mercedes, and the other Kinsurprise ...
      1. Tatyana
        Tatyana 9 July 2018 06: 45
        +6
        Like P.S. Grachev was not suitable for the post of Minister of Defense, and S.V. Kiriyenko was not suitable for the post of prime minister. Someone was supposed in the 90-ies. there and there become extreme ...

        S.V. I personally saw Kiriyenko alive, in my opinion, in the fall of 2001 in Nizhny Novgorod. There, at that time, the Nizhny Novgorod Fair was held for Russian enterprises and entrepreneurs to produce new goods and promote new technologies on the Russian market.
        For participants of the fair for special. For the invitation tickets on the very first day at 9 in the evening, a very decent banquet was organized with various dishes. With an opening welcoming speech, S.V. Kiriyenko. I sat in the feather row and saw him at a distance of 3-5 meters from me.
        The impression on me S.V. Kiriyenko produced a very controversial one.
        An elegant, intelligent-looking young man - not at all as impudent as, for example, Nemtsov - completely without charisma spoke in a liberal-reformist spirit with some optimistic and fantastic "bends" about the development of the Russian economy. By that time I had already familiarized myself with the exhibition and the goods. It was, in principle, an ordinary trivial exhibition, of which there were many in Moscow, St. Petersburg. and other cities and which did not "weather" in the plundered privatized country. The enterprises and the people had no money.
        And from all this, I caught myself thinking. That Kiriyenko is not a completely independent politician and economist, but a thief driven “upstairs” from someone’s light arm, and represents the very cohort of “Russian” young reformers “in short pants” that I had the chance to see alive at that moment. And that Kiriyenko is more of a whipping boy.
        Having finished his welcoming speech, Kiriyenko immediately left the “feast” meeting of the fair participants. Questions and answers were clearly not intended.
      2. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 9 July 2018 13: 41
        +8
        Mercedes Pasha was a brother-in-law for his wives (married to Naina Yeltsin’s sister), that’s the whole reason for taking off to the commander in chief. His fault in the execution of the Parliament of the Russian Federation is like a black spot in Russian history. Not to mention the death of the first Chechen soldiers who were put under slaughter ... (famous: we will restore order in Chechnya with one regiment of airborne troops) .. A servant, not a warrior, died and forget it ...
    2. 210ox
      210ox 9 July 2018 06: 09
      0
      C'mon .. Kinderurprise at that time was already an "odious" person? .. It was necessary to substitute someone, and set them under attack ..
      Quote: Mar. Tira
      Dudaev was not a shepherd. His teip was from warriors-mercenaries. But Kadyrov was really from the teip of shepherds. So the Chechens said to me anyway. I agree that both Grachev and Kiriyenko were chosen as the most odious personalities ready for a career to do anything. There are even now ..
      1. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 9 July 2018 06: 31
        +4
        Quote: 210ox
        . It was necessary to substitute someone, and framed under attack ..

        In order to expose someone to a blow, it is necessary that he fully arrange both the power and the oligarchs. Here they were found. I am not sure about the setup, somehow Kiriyenko was thanked, and he remained in the clip. In cream and chocolate.
        1. 210ox
          210ox 9 July 2018 06: 36
          +1
          Yes, Oleg. I agree .. Although I personally do not feel dislike for him. He leads the industry, which is developing well in the current difficult conditions .. And then I think that he was just a lightning rod .. And then thanked everyone ... So there everyone those involved didn’t divide anywhere .. Maybe someone already died .. Like the same "Pasha Mercedes"
          Quote: Mar. Tira
          Quote: 210ox
          . It was necessary to substitute someone, and framed under attack ..

          In order to expose someone to a blow, it is necessary that he fully arrange both the power and the oligarchs. Here they were found. I am not sure about the setup, somehow Kiriyenko was thanked, and he remained in the clip. In cream and chocolate.
          1. Mar.Tirah
            Mar.Tirah 9 July 2018 06: 42
            +1
            Quote: 210ox
            .Although I personally do not feel hostility towards him.

            Similarly, he walked along the path beaten by Gaidar Chubais, Nemtsov. It was unpleasant as a man to choose this path to go in a cage with the liquidators and robbers of my country. And then he did not make harsh statements like Nemtsov, Gaidar, and Chubais in defining the Russian people who did not agree with Yeltsin’s course. He scored points ..
    3. cariperpaint
      cariperpaint 9 July 2018 06: 32
      +1
      And how then can this be connected with the fact that Kiriyenko’s candidacy has been wrapped up twice before? what was not needed, and then they suddenly decided to do something extreme ?! In my opinion, everything is more prosaic. They didn’t do it as an extreme, but rather there simply were no others. His decision about default was the only correct one. In my absolution, it would not go to default but to pay debts. And then it would still be possible to write off everything for a bunch of years.
      1. Mar.Tirah
        Mar.Tirah 9 July 2018 06: 36
        +1
        Quote: cariperpaint
        And how then can this be connected with the fact that Kiriyenko’s candidacy has been wrapped up twice before?

        Everything can be. What is fortune telling on the coffee grounds? One way or another, he became the chairman of the government, and then they gave him a quiet, promising place for his loyal service.
        1. cariperpaint
          cariperpaint 9 July 2018 06: 52
          +3
          And where he showed himself quite decently. But yes. You're right. Now it’s just fortunetelling) just recently recall Kiriyenko chamto and in my opinion this person did not deserve a particular negative for himself. He doesn’t say anything stupid; he does not give promises to the left. He doesn’t scribble.
    4. The comment was deleted.
    5. Megatron
      Megatron 10 July 2018 00: 29
      +1
      And the other day, Kinder was given the hero. And secret right away. The current government is Yeltsin’s nesting doll and is also robbing the country.
  2. aszzz888
    aszzz888 9 July 2018 06: 03
    +2
    G. Burbulis, M. Poltoranin, G. Starovoitova, F. Shelov-Kovedyaev worked most actively on the collapse of Chechnya.

    ... the author stirred up the skeletons in the closet ...
  3. wooja
    wooja 9 July 2018 06: 23
    0
    it’s quite possible that it’s not a matter of words and ambition, it’s the mess that has created the collapse of the union that we are still disintegrating. It’s a pity that the true culprits will never be touched, I think they are known, money is made, life is settled ...., but it is necessary to remind of this, naturally, all this was done not for thanks, some died and others died.
  4. Snail N9
    Snail N9 9 July 2018 06: 35
    +5
    A lot about Dudaev, a little about the "role of Grachev" - I didn’t see at all about "his role", but about "Kiriyenko" - in general, one "half-phrase" at the end ... However, the "weak" Kiriyenko is still since, like "that which never drowns", safely floats on top .... they even write that the "hero of Russia" received "secretly" .... the "hero" - what’s there ....
  5. odometer
    odometer 9 July 2018 06: 43
    +1
    Under Shamil, not adat, but Sharia and its extreme form of tariqa, were "more authoritative."
  6. parusnik
    parusnik 9 July 2018 07: 39
    +3
    And literally a few days later, a coup d'etat took place in the city of Grozny, as a result of which "the place of the communist-conservative Zavgaev was taken by the democratically inclined young general Dzhokhar Dudayev." Literally, they wrote, stated almost all of the Moscow newspapers.
    ...... How well I remember that, they wrote excitedly, saliva flew from the newspaper pages ... Kiriyenko, now the hero of Russia ....
  7. Dormidont
    Dormidont 9 July 2018 10: 02
    +3
    The article is like a review of shit varieties
  8. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 9 July 2018 10: 04
    +1
    It has long been clear to everyone that for P.S. Grachev the ceiling was the division commander ... Kiriyenko was exclusively in 98 a button and a drain tap that defaulted, but he didn’t bring the country to default, the GKO started long before it ..
    Hero? And who saw the Decree? They say closed .. well, they say that the chickens are milked .... and maybe if they gave it, then perhaps the revived title of Hero of Labor ..
    1. The comment was deleted.
  9. Captain45
    Captain45 9 July 2018 10: 16
    +7
    Article Title - Grachev-94 and Kiriyenko-98: similar roles?. An article about Dzhokhar Dudaev and how various figures perceived him. Where is the story about the role of Grachev in the 94 year, Kiriyenko in the 98 year. What is their similarity and difference? Why are these so different personalities being compared? Just because Kiriyenko was awarded the title Hero of Russia, just like Grachev. Then where is the story for which high ranks are assigned to both? Either the author needs to change the title of the article or adjust the content under the title. I can’t say that the article is about anything at all. Still, Dudaev’s estimates are given, but they have the same relation to the title of the article as a ballerina to Volga movers.
    1. Mstislav
      Mstislav 9 July 2018 17: 03
      0
      Grachev, being the commander of 103 Airborne Forces, received the Hero of the Soviet Union (and not Russia) in Afghanistan in 1988. for Operation Highway.
  10. Snail N9
    Snail N9 9 July 2018 11: 53
    -1
    I found something about Kinder, something "newer": https://publizist.ru/blogs/108984/25860/-?utm_sou
    rce = politobzor.net
  11. Larum
    Larum 9 July 2018 12: 03
    +1
    What all the experts gathered ...
    The main thing - Putin said: Kiriyenko suits me, he is a professional ...
    Those. insider....
    1. Semen1972
      Semen1972 9 July 2018 16: 27
      +1
      Quote: Larum
      Kiriyenko suits me, he is a professional ...
      Those. insider....

      And what are some doubts? Did you work with him? I have been familiar from the structures of military factories, intersected with Kiriyenko. They say that he is a very competent man. And Putin’s image is excellent. Imagine that this is exactly the same power, but at the helm ... Sergey Ivanov for example .. and the people will not choose them. But Putin chooses. Despite the pensions, gasoline, VAT, war and so on. Kiriyenko real specials.
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 9 July 2018 23: 02
        0
        Similar information. And the person who communicates closely with Kiriyenko deserves respect.
  12. aloleggry
    aloleggry 9 July 2018 14: 38
    +4
    Grachev was my division commander. Another colonel. He did not require combatant stride and salute at the meeting. Soldier shore, as he could. Kiriyenko stupidly framed. Chernomyrdin quietly dumped, all the cones went to Kiriyenko.
  13. Parsec
    Parsec 9 July 2018 14: 54
    +2
    Quote: Vladimir 5
    The servant died, not the warrior, so forget him.

    "Pashka ...". Who were you at the time when Grachev was deputy commander-in-chief of the VDD so that like that on the sidelines, huh?
    Grachev was in Afghanistan twice, once the commander of a paratrooper regiment, the other commander of a paratrooper division. Not at the grocery store ate up.

    Boast that you have a similar one, you are a chatterbox rattling to judge "a servant, not a warrior."
    1. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 9 July 2018 19: 57
      +3
      You walked under the table when I was already serving as an officer, I know more about Pasha G., and his service in the 7th Airborne Division of Kaunas and the service in Afghanistan when he went to bed at the first shots, causing the smiles of others. The officer of the division level, but they trampled on the clavcoms, he helped his brother-in-law, he served his brother-in-law in full, disgracing the Tamansky Panzer Division and the USSR Armed Forces forever, scored five idiot crews, Yelnitsa's headquarters ordered ten, everyone refused !!! ... And if propaganda, so a hero - it’s true that the tribunal was laid down for Chechnya with the deprivation of everything ...
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 9 July 2018 19: 59
      0
      Pasha of those about whom Filatov wrote "... I would have a saber and a horse / yes to the line of fire ..." Do not stick his Afghan affairs here, there, beyond the river, Dudaev was a completely successful Soviet general. And the beginning of the 90's put everything in a different way: both the one and the other cost each other.
  14. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 9 July 2018 18: 27
    +3
    Kiriyenko and then what? He was asked to become a whipping boy, and he became. But then: Presidential Envoy in N. Novgorod, Minister of Nuclear Industry. So he's in chocolate ...
  15. tank66
    tank66 9 July 2018 19: 44
    +2
    Or maybe this crypto-scientologist is the future president? laughing
    how cute they are while crushing their forehead ..
    1. Vladimir 5
      Vladimir 5 9 July 2018 22: 02
      +1
      Strange, and all the Israelites are sons and a daughter, but with a Japanese touch ......
  16. DED_peer_DED
    DED_peer_DED 9 July 2018 21: 00
    +1
    SCHMUCK.
    "The text of your message is very short ..."
    What is there to lengthen?
  17. Glory1974
    Glory1974 9 July 2018 21: 19
    +2
    Chechnya could indeed be taken in one regiment. But for this it was necessary to think with his head, work and prepare the appropriate conditions. When we were in Grozny in 95, not far from the ruins of the Dudaev Palace, Chechens came up to us and started talking. One of them introduced himself as a police major, the other is also a policeman. It was their man 10. I was surprised to learn from them that the Chechens have been fighting with each other for more than two years, that Dudaev is from a weak teip and everyone wants to remove him, because he is a protege of Moscow.
    But suddenly the troops began to enter and Dudaev announced that the Russians want to deport the Chechens again, and whoever is not with us is against us. Under these conditions, all of them were forced to fight on the side of Dudaev or to flee. No one wanted to go against the people.
    By the way, Dudaev, just like Yeltsin shot his parliament out of tanks, only a couple of years earlier. When Yeltsin also acted, Dudaev sent him a congratulatory telegram.
  18. nikvic46
    nikvic46 9 July 2018 22: 20
    +1
    Quote: Semen1972
    Quote: Oleg Zhepalov
    I don’t quite understand what benefit Moscow was from unleashing the conflict in Chechnya? What goals did Yeltsin set?

    The same as in the Donbass. Preserve the integrity of the country.

    At first he signed the Bialowieza Agreement, but tried to preserve what was left of the territory of the great state?
  19. Karenius
    Karenius 9 July 2018 23: 01
    +1
    I recall the words of Pasha 14.12.94/XNUMX/XNUMX.
    "What are they doing ?! Tanks are good in the field, not in the city ..."
  20. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 10 July 2018 12: 11
    0
    Quote: glory1974
    Chechnya could indeed be taken in one regiment. But for this it was necessary to think with his head, work and prepare the appropriate conditions. When we were in Grozny in 95, not far from the ruins of the Dudaev Palace, Chechens came up to us and started talking. One of them introduced himself as a police major, the other is also a policeman. It was their man 10. I was surprised to learn from them that the Chechens have been fighting with each other for more than two years, that Dudaev is from a weak teip and everyone wants to remove him, because he is a protege of Moscow.
    But suddenly the troops began to enter and Dudaev announced that the Russians want to deport the Chechens again, and whoever is not with us is against us. Under these conditions, all of them were forced to fight on the side of Dudaev or to flee. No one wanted to go against the people.
    By the way, Dudaev, just like Yeltsin shot his parliament out of tanks, only a couple of years earlier. When Yeltsin also acted, Dudaev sent him a congratulatory telegram.

    Regarding the regiment ... Grachev meant Grozny, and not the republic itself, in my opinion ...
  21. 16112014nk
    16112014nk 10 July 2018 16: 47
    0
    Quote: Tatiana
    S.V. I personally saw Kiriyenko alive,

    Quote: Tatiana
    Elegant, intelligent looking young man

    Sechina personally saw at a meeting of shareholders of Rosneft. And not only him - Kudrin, Belousov, Gref. Also not to say maniacs or cannibals.
    All of them are good, while, as they say, they sleep with their teeth against the wall. But only when they wake up and start doing good deeds - then the horror begins! negative