Military Review

Vietnam Air Defense System (part of 2)

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Vietnam Air Defense System (part of 2)



After the conclusion of an armistice in March 1968, the combat capability of the air defense forces of North Vietnam was seriously increased. By the second half of 1968, the air defense troops of the DRV had 5 air defense divisions and 4 separate radio regiments. The Air Force formed the 4 Fighter Regiment, which operated 59 MiG-17F / PF, 12 J-6 (Chinese version of the MiG-19С) and 77 MiG-21F-13 / PF / PFM. From 1965 to 1972, the X-NUMX SA-95M and 75 anti-aircraft missiles were delivered to the DRV in the DRV. The role and intensity of the use of the air defense missile system in repelling American air strikes can be judged based on the fact that at the time of the end of the war, 7658 missiles were spent or lost.

Among the new fighters were MiG-21PFM with improved take-off and landing characteristics, more advanced avionics, a KM-1 ejection seat and a suspended gondola with an 23-mm gun GSH-23L. Shortly before the end of the Vietnam War, the MiG-21МФ with more powerful engines, the built-in 23-mm cannon and the RP-22 BRLS entered the VNA air force. These fighters already had the ability to mount four air combat missiles, including those with radar seeker, which increased the combat capabilities in poor visibility conditions at night.



Also, Vietnamese pilots mastered Chinese-made supersonic fighters J-6. Compared to the MiG-17F, armed with two 30-mm guns, the supersonic J-6 had great potential when intercepting tactical and carrier-based American attack aircraft aviation. According to Western data, until January 1972, 54 J-6 fighters were sent to Vietnam.


Fighter J-6


The Vietnamese J-6 first joined the battle on 8 in May of 1972. That day they went up to intercept the Phantom F-4 four. The Vietnamese said they won two aerial victories, but this is not confirmed by American data. According to the memoirs of the American pilots who participated in the fighting in Southeast Asia, Chinese-made MiG-19 were even more dangerous than the more modern MiG-21, armed only with missiles. In 1968 — 1969, Vietnam received the 54 F-6, which was armed with the 925 th Fighter Wing. During the hostilities, the air regiment suffered significant losses, and in 1974, China handed over the DRV to the 24 F-6.

Until December 1972, the North Vietnamese radio engineering divisions underwent significant quantitative and qualitative enhancement. In 1970, the P-12MP radar appeared in the air defense system, which could operate in the flicker mode to protect against Shrike anti-radar missiles. The existing P-30 radar and the PRV-10 radio altimeter were also upgraded to improve noise immunity. received surveillance radars P-35 and highly mobile P-15, designed to detect low-altitude targets.

As of the end of 1972, the number of anti-aircraft artillery at the disposal of the Vietnamese People’s Army and the Viet Cong units had reached 10 000 guns. Approximately half of the Vietnamese anti-aircraft guns were 37-mm 61-K and Sparky B-47 assault rifles. Despite the fact that the 61-K was put into service in the 1939 year, and the B-47 shortly after the end of the Great Patriotic War, these anti-aircraft guns shot down more enemy aircraft and helicopters in Southeast Asia than all the other anti-aircraft guns.


Vietnamese calculation 37-mm anti-aircraft gun 61-K


Judging by the available photographs, a number of open-top anti-aircraft towers with 37-mm paired guns were delivered to the DRV. Apparently, these were sea 37-mm installations В-11М, which were mounted on stationary positions in North Vietnam.



Unlike the 61-K and B-47 guns, designed to be placed on the deck of the ship of the turret, the B-11M were protected with splinter armor and equipped with a forced water-cooling system for the barrels, which made it possible to conduct long firing.

From the middle of the 60's, in North Vietnam, 57-mm C-60 anti-aircraft guns were used to protect important objects. In practical rate of fire, they were slightly inferior to 37-mm machine guns, but had a large slant firing range and reach in height.


Fixed position 57 mm C-60 guns


The target designation of the six-gun battery was centrally carried out by PUAZO-6 in conjunction with the SON-9A gun-tracking radar. Numerous fortified positions were built around Hanoi and Haiphona for anti-aircraft guns of caliber 57-mm and above. Some of them have survived to this day.

During the Vietnam War, virtually all 85-K and KS-52 anti-aircraft guns were stored in the DRV from the Soviet Union. By the middle of the 1-x these guns are hopelessly outdated, but in the warehouses there were very significant stocks of shells to them. Although the 60-mm guns did not have centralized gun-drive drives and were mainly firing anti-aircraft guns, they played a certain role in repelling American air raids. At the same time, the consumption of anti-aircraft missiles of all calibers was very high. During the period of intense American air raids, at least one train with shells arrived daily in Chinese airways through the Chinese territory.

In the 60-s, the 100-mm anti-aircraft guns of the KS-19 available in the DRV air defense forces were considered quite modern. The fire of the six-gun battery was centrally controlled by the CON-4 radar station. This station was created in 1947 year on the basis of the American radar SCR-584, supplied during the Second World Lend Lease. Although the TTN battery 100-mm anti-aircraft guns could fire air targets flying at altitudes up to 15000 m at speeds up to 1200 km / h, the active jamming generators available on American aircraft that were actively used from the 1968 of the year often paralyzed the work of gun stations and the guns fired anti-aircraft fire or according to data obtained from optical rangefinders. Which significantly reduced the effectiveness of shooting. However, the same applied to the SON-9, used in conjunction with C-57 60-mm guns.


Vietnamese ZSU-23-4 in firing position


At the final stage of the war, low-altitude C-125 SAM systems appeared in the VNA, used mainly to cover airfields, self-propelled anti-aircraft guns ZSU-23-4 Shilka and towed twin anti-aircraft gun ZU-23. However, data on how modern it is by the standards of those years weapon proved to be effective in the conditions of Southeast Asia, in the open press there is practically no.


ZU-23


Appear C-125, Shilka and 23-mm towed pairings in North Vietnam by how many years earlier, the losses of American and South Vietnamese aviation could have been significantly higher, which, of course, could have an effect on the timing of the end of the conflict. Many historians who write about the Vietnam War pay attention to the fact that the USSR, at about the same time interval, supplied the Arabs with much more modern equipment and weapons of the air defense forces. For example, the export version of the Cube-Kvadrat SAM system appeared in Vietnam only at the end of 70-x, the same applies to the RPK-1 VAZ radar system, which had significantly greater capabilities than the gun-laying station DREAM-9A and DREAM-4. This was due to the fact that the Soviet leadership rightly feared that modern high-tech weapons would end up in China, which at the end of the 60s in many respects behaved openly hostile towards the Soviet Union. The Soviet representatives in the DRV, responsible for the delivery of equipment, weapons and ammunition, repeatedly recorded cases of loss of goods sent from the USSR while passing them by rail through the territory of the PRC. First of all, this concerned the stations targeting anti-aircraft missile systems, anti-aircraft missiles, surveillance radars, radio altimeters, radar stations and MiG-21 fighters. Thus, China, without disdaining outright theft, after the cessation of military-technical cooperation with the USSR, tried to pull up its own Air Force and air defense forces to the present level. In this regard, many samples of equipment and weapons were delivered to North Vietnam by sea, which was associated with a high risk. American aviation regularly bombed Haiphong, mined the port waters, and underwater saboteurs operated there.

The VNA leadership, which had the experience of partisan warfare itself, paid great attention to increasing the capabilities of small-scale air defense forces operating in isolation from the main forces. In the middle of the 60-ies, the Vietnamese side requested the leadership of the USSR to provide them with an easy anti-aircraft system capable of effectively fighting American aircraft in guerrilla warfare in the jungle and suitable for carrying as separate packs. After receiving the Vietnamese order, the 1967-mm anti-aircraft mining installation ZGU-14,5 was successfully launched into production in the 1 year, which successfully passed field testing as early as the 1956 year. With a mass in the combat position 220 kg, the installation was disassembled into five parts with a mass of no more than 40 kg. It is also possible to transport ZGU-1 in the back of a truck. As the experience of combat use of the ZSU-1 has shown, it can fire directly from the vehicle. The Vietnamese very often used improvised ZSU to escort transport and military convoys and anti-aircraft cover at the troop concentrations.


14,5-mm quad machine gun type 56


Simultaneously with the ZGU-1 folding and suitable for carrying over long distances, several hundreds of quad 14,5-mm ZPU Type 56 were shipped from the PRC to North Vietnam. This installation was a complete copy of the Soviet towed ZPU-4, which were also available in the air defense units of the VNA. The Chinese equivalent of 14,5-mm Sparky ZPU-2 supplied to Vietnam is known as Type 58.



In addition to 1971-mm, PGI-14,5 and 1-DShK, small infantry units of the VNA in 12,7 received at their disposal Strela-2 MANPADS with a launch range of up to 3400 m and reachability of 1500 m, which dramatically increased their ability to combat low-altitude aerial targets.

Seriously strengthened air defense system of North Vietnam was subjected to rigorous testing in the second half of December 1972. Due to the breakdown of the peace talks, the delegation of North Vietnam 13 December 1972 left Paris. The main reason for the termination of the dialogue was the unacceptable demands made by the leadership of South Vietnam and supported by the United States. In order to force the DRV government to return to negotiations on favorable terms, the Americans launched an air operation Linebacker II (eng. Linebacker - midfielder). The X-NUMX strategic bombers B-188, 52 F-48A fighter-bombers, capable of carrying low-altitude throws and more other types of 111 aircraft, were attracted to it. That is, almost the entire group of US strategic, tactical and carrier-based aviation, based on this theater of operations. The operation began on the evening of December 800, 18, with a simultaneous attack on the main home airfields of North Vietnamese fighters and the well-known positions of the air defense system. Subsequently, the main efforts of the American military aviation were focused on the destruction of important industrial facilities, the capital of the DRV, Hanoi, the main seaport of Haiphong and the industrial region Thinghuen were subjected to intensive raids. The air operation lasted 1972 days. During this time, 12 carried out massive strikes: 33 - strategic aviation, 17 - tactical and aircraft carrier, 16 made sorties, including 2814 - strategic bombers.


B-52G at Andersen airbase, 1972 year


For the first time, the United States Air Force engaged B-52 Stratofortress strategic bombers to strike the DRV territory in April 1966. Then they struck two blows at the “Ho Chi Minh Trails” section bordering Laos. Before 1972, B-52 regularly bombed supply lines and Vietcong positions in South Vietnam. Bombers operated from Andersen bases in Guam and Upatao in Thailand. The main burden of the struggle with the “Stratospheric Fortresses” fell precisely on the calculations of the air defense system. By that time, there were about 40 anti-aircraft missile divisions armed with CA-75M in the DRV.



Already at the end of 60, Vietnamese calculations were carried out on CA-75M, which learned quite a bit of sophisticated equipment, learned how to mask their complexes in the jungle, and make ambushes on the flight routes of American aircraft. Often, the Vietnamese almost in their arms dragged complexes along the glades laid out in dense tropical vegetation. At the same time, the airfield system often operated with a trimmed lineup: the 1-2 launchers and the CHP-75 guidance station. The search for the target was carried out visually, since the P-12 radar unmasked the position with its radiation and was too burdensome when traveling off-road.


The moment of defeat by the anti-aircraft missile of the American reconnaissance aircraft RF-4C


The victims of the North Vietnamese air defense systems, leading the "free hunt", often became Drones, single tactical reconnaissance aircraft or strike vehicles that broke away from the main group. During one of these raids, on November 22, in the area between the demilitarized zone and the 20th parallel, the first American strategic bomber was shot down. The B-52D received critical damage as a result of a close rupture of the warhead of the B-750B missile, the crew managed to reach Thailand and parachute out.


B-52D bombing South Vietnam


The largest number of sorties in Southeast Asia was made by the B-52D modification bombers. This bomber was able to carry 108 227-kg bombs Mk.82 with a total mass of 24516 kg. Usually, bombing was carried out from a height of 10-12 km. At the same time, a zone of continuous destruction of 1000 on 2800 m was formed on the ground. Given that up to a hundred bombers simultaneously participated in the raids, they were capable of inflicting enormous damage on the economy and defense potential of North Vietnam.

In order to eliminate losses from VNA air force fighter aircraft and to minimize the effectiveness of anti-aircraft artillery fire, B-52 raids against the DRV were carried out exclusively at night. However, it was not possible to completely avoid losses. On the night from December 19 to 20, when repelling raids on Hanoi and Haiphong, anti-aircraft missile divisions launched American bombers around 200 missiles. In this case, there were cases when 10-12 missiles were used almost simultaneously by one bomber. By the end of 1972, most of the American “strategists” had very powerful broadband active jamming stations, and the guidance operators, often unable to accompany the target, put the missiles at the center of the interference. As a result, six B-52 were shot down that night, and several more were damaged. It turned out that when using a significant amount of missiles on one plane, EW stations do not guarantee its invulnerability. Substantial losses incurred by the bomber wings of the strategic aviation command caused a break in the bombardments, the American command quickly developed a new tactic during two days, the experts refined the electronic warfare equipment, and the radio reconnaissance aircraft detected the position of the air defense missile system and radar for further suppression or destruction. The Americans temporarily abandoned their actions in large groups, sending bombers on 9-30 missions. The next massive air attack took place on December 26. The B-78G 52 bomber group and 42 B-52D bomber climbed from Andersen airbase, and Utapao airbase also joined them. Ten sites located in the vicinity of Hanoi were bombed. This time, a new tactic was tested - seven waves of five or six triples in each went to the targets along different routes and at different heights.

The vulnerability of strategic bombers of various modifications was different. So, experts note that B-52D, equipped with ALT-28EM jamming equipment, turned out to be much less vulnerable than D-52G, which did not have such equipment. Tactical and carrier-based aircraft for self-protection were forced to carry suspended containers with EW equipment, which reduced the bomb load.


F-105 Thunderchief bombing fighter jets, leader of jammer EB-66 Destroyer

Often enough to cover the fighters of bombers, loaded to the eyeballs with bombs, the planes of electronic intelligence and EW B-66 Destroyer were allocated. In addition, dozens of tons of aluminum foil were dropped on the routes of the impact machines. Dipole reflectors formed a curtain that made it difficult for American radars to detect American aircraft and escort their missile guidance stations.

The interception of American "strategists" by fighter aircraft also proved to be very difficult. It would seem that the slow, bulky “Stratospheric Fortresses”, reaching large groups, should have been light targets for supersonic MiG-21 fighter jets. However, MiG pilots failed to achieve results that would have forced the American command to abandon the use of B-52.

The first attempts to intercept the B-52 using the MiG-21PF were undertaken in March of the 1969 year. But the Americans quickly found North Vietnamese fighters at a field airfield near the demilitarized zone and bombed them. In the first half of 1971, the MiGs repeatedly launched unsuccessful attacks. However, the interception of the Stratospheric Fortresses at night was extremely complicated by strong electronic countermeasures. The Americans not only interfered with the P-35 ground surveillance radars, but also jammed the fighter targeting radio channels. Attempts to use airborne radar MiG-21PF were also unsuccessful. When the RP-21 radar was turned on, its indicator was completely illuminated due to the high level of interference. In addition, the radiation of the MiG radar was recorded by warning stations mounted on bombers, which unmasked the interceptor. After that, the B-52 arrows and US escort fighters immediately activated. For the first time, MiG-21PF successfully attacked B-52 20 on October 1971. The fighter, induced by the bombers on commands from the ground, after briefly turning on RP-21, specifying the position of the target, fired the P-3C rocket from the maximum distance. IR GOS rocket captured heat-emitting engine B-52, but one hit of a relatively light melee UR designed to defeat tactical aircraft was not enough for a heavy "strategist" and the damaged American bomber was able to reach its airfield.

During the operation Linebacker II, interceptor fighters managed to shoot down two US strategic bomber. This time there were more advanced MiG-21МФ. Good luck smiled to the pilot of the 921 th Fighter Aviation Regiment Pham Tuan at night 27 December. Thanks to the coordinated actions of the guidance service, the Vietnamese pilot missed with the escort fighters and accurately entered the top three B-52, going with aeronautical lights on. A volley from two missiles launched from the 2000 m, he destroyed the bomber and was able to safely return to his airfield. After one B-52 was shot down, the other bombers, the next ones in the group, quickly got rid of the bombs and lay back. For this feat, Pham Tuan, who later became the first Vietnamese astronaut, was awarded the Golden Star of the Hero of Vietnam.

The second B-52 Vietnamese interceptors managed to shoot down the next night. Unfortunately, the Vietnamese pilot By Haun Thieu did not return from a combat mission. What actually happened was not known for certain. But on the ground next to the wreckage of the downed B-52 fragments of the MiG were found. Most likely, the pilot of the MiG-21МФ fighter during the attack collided with a bomber or fired missiles from too close a distance and was killed by a bomb blast.


Debris In-52, shot down during the operation Linebacker II


The B-52 raids continued until January 28 and 1973, and stopped just a few hours before the signing of the Paris Peace Accords. During the Linebacker II operation, the B-52 bombers on the 34 target dropped approximately 85 000 bombs with a total mass of more than 15 000 tons. During the bombing of the territory of North Vietnam, the American strategic bomber aircraft destroyed and seriously damaged 1600 various engineering objects and buildings. Storage facilities for petroleum products with a total capacity of 11,36 million liters were destroyed, ten airfields and 80% of power plants were disabled. According to official Vietnamese data, civilian casualties were 1318 people killed and 1260 injured.

According to Soviet sources, the enemy's 81 aircraft, including 34 B-52 strategic bomber, were destroyed during the repulse of the “New Year air offensive”. The VNA anti-aircraft missile forces shot down an 32 of this type of aircraft, and fighter aircraft recorded two B-52 at their own expense. Americans give other statistics: according to their data, they irrevocably lost 31 aircraft, of which 17 are considered shot down during hostilities, 1 bomber is written off due to combat damage as non-recoverable, 11 crashed in flight accidents, 1 was written off due to non-recovery combat damage and 1 burned out at the airfield. However, among those “crashed in flight accidents” there must be cars damaged by missiles or anti-aircraft guns. There is a case when, during landing at an airfield in Thailand, heavily damaged by a close rupture of the Z-V-52 missile, rolled out of the runway and exploded on mines installed around the airfield to protect against partisans, only the side gunner in the tail section survived . Subsequently, this aircraft was recorded as "crashed in a flight incident." All in all, the United States believes that the CA-75M air defense system in Southeast Asia shot down American aircraft 205.

After the raids on the territory of the DRV, the air war in Southeast Asia did not stop. Although the Americans withdrew their ground forces as part of the “Vietnamization” of the conflict, combat aircraft of the US Air Force and Navy continued to deliver bombing and assault attacks on the advancing battle formations of the North Vietnamese army and transport communications. At the end of the 60s, detachments of South Vietnamese partisans actually joined the regular units of the Vietnam People’s Army. Along the "Ho Chi Minh Trail", along which columns were moving south along with trucks tanks and artillery, batteries of anti-aircraft guns and even positions of anti-aircraft missile divisions appeared.

However, from the very beginning of the liberation movement of the Vietnamese people, French and then American combat aircraft were even fired from flint-shotguns. This episode is even featured in Air America's 1990, with Mel Gibson and Robert Downey Jr. starring.


North Vietnamese militia learn to fire at air targets


All the South Vietnamese partisans and military personnel of the North Vietnamese army were required to practice their fire skills on air targets. For this, they even created special handicraft "simulators".


Vietcong fighter aims from M2 carbine to American helicopters


Partisans operating in the jungle, as a rule, did not miss the opportunity to fire at planes and helicopters that were within reach. For this purpose, the most diverse small arms of Soviet, American and even German production were used.


Vietcong fighters firing at air targets from the American machine gun M60

Oddly enough, until the overthrow of the South Vietnamese regime in the VNA, MG-34 anti-aircraft machine guns, delivered from the USSR in the 50-s, were used. This is confirmed by numerous photographs of those years.


Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners with MG-34


But at the same time, no mention was made of the use of Vietnamese anti-aircraft gunners with captured Japanese 13,2-mm anti-aircraft 13,2-mm 93 and 20-mm artillery 98 anti-aircraft guns in combat. The same applies to the Hotchkiss M13,2 and M1929 1930-mm machine guns, although they were supposed to go to the Vietnamese as trophies from the French contingent.


Vietnamese calculation 12,7-mm machine gun DShK


But there are a lot of photos of anti-aircraft calculations with 12,7-mm machine guns of DShK and DShKM of military and post-war release and their Chinese copies of Type 54, which externally differ in muzzle flame arresters and sighting devices.


The machine gunner is ready to open fire with a machine gun DShKM


Very often, the Vietcong and VNA fighters fired from Soviet and Chinese rifle machine guns at air targets. Of the Soviet machine guns, these were most often SG-43 and SGM. At the beginning of the 70-x in service with the Vietnamese, the Chinese Type 67 appeared, which constructively had much in common with the Goryunov machine gun.


VNA fighters firing at air targets from SGM easel machine gun


However, in North Vietnam there were some very rare anti-aircraft machine-gun installations. So, for the air defense of stationary objects was used the installation of the arr. 1928 g. Under the machine gun system Maxim arr. 1910


Vietnamese calculation of anti-aircraft machine gun arr. Xnumx


It is noteworthy that by the year 1944 practically all anti-aircraft installations of this type in the Red Army were driven out by large-bore DShK heavy machine guns. Yes, and before the end of the Second World War ZPU arr. 1928 has lived very little.



Anti-aircraft fire from small arms and anti-aircraft machine-gun systems was particularly destructive for helicopters, which were very widely used by the American and South Vietnamese armed forces. Since 1972, the Strela-2 has appeared at the disposal of the North Vietnamese military and partisans operating in South Vietnam.


Fighter VNA with MANPADS "Strela-2"


According to information from domestic sources, in the period from 1972 to 1975, the year in Vietnam produced 589 MANPADS launches and shot down 204 American and South Vietnamese airplanes and helicopters. However, this information is likely to be greatly overestimated. According to American data, the Strela-2 missiles in reality destroyed no more than 50 aircraft, which, in general, is consistent with the statistics of the use of Soviet first-generation MANPADS in other conflicts. At the same time, in the book of Chris Hobson “Losses in the air in Vietnam”, taking into account actions in Cambodia and Laos, the portable Strela-2 complexes could have hit about a hundred airplanes and helicopters. At the same time, many observers noted that the warhead of the missile of the portable complex was relatively weak. Its power was quite enough to destroy helicopters UH-1 Iroquois and AN-1 Cobra, as well as light attack aircraft A-1 Skyraider and A-37 Dragonfly. But the larger cars, often getting hit, returned safely to their airfields. In addition to helicopters and attack aircraft, the ganships and military transport planes in the Southeast Asia were often hit by military transport aircraft, which were involved in supplying the besieged South Vietnamese garrisons.


Combat damage caused by hitting a MANPADS missile by safely returning to its airfield with the AC-130 Specter ganship

Among the survivors of the strike "Arrows-2" were even two South Vietnamese fighter F-5 Tiger II. At the same time, the Strela-2 MANPADS, despite the not always sufficient power of the warhead, together with the anti-aircraft guns played a very prominent role at the final stage of the Vietnam War, preventing the air forces of South Vietnam from slowing down the offensive of VNA units. So 29 on April 1975 of the year, on the penultimate day of the war over Saigon, MANPADS were shot down by the A-1 Skyraider attack aircraft and the “ganship” of the AS-119K Stinger.


Piston attack aircraft A-1, made an emergency landing


Regarding the losses incurred by the air force, navy, army and aviation of the USMC during the Vietnam War, the controversy has not ceased until now. As shows story Wars, loss counting is always hampered by incomplete information, official mistakes made by documents or researchers during material collection and analysis, and sometimes by deliberate distortions of objective data. Detailed consideration of this topic requires a separate publication, but based on the analysis of various sources, it can be concluded that the Americans in Southeast Asia lost about 10 000 aircraft: approximately 4000 aircraft, more 5500 helicopters and 578 reconnaissance drones downed over the Northern Vietnam and China. Here you should also add the losses of American allies: 13 aircraft and helicopters of the Australian Air Force and more 1300 South Vietnamese aircraft. Of course, not all airplanes and helicopters lost by the United States and its allies were shot down in battle. Some of them crashed during flight accidents or were destroyed on the airfields by partisans. In addition, North Vietnam in 1975, at the South Vietnamese air bases, managed to capture 877 aircraft and helicopters. The ZSU American-made M42 Duster, armed with an 40-mm pairing and towed four-way 12,7-MM55, which were actively used at the final stage of the war for firing at ground targets, also became trophies of the DRV army. In 1965, the Americans, fearing the attacks of the North Vietnamese IL-28 bombers, deployed MIM-23 HAWK anti-aircraft missiles around their airbases, but they did not transfer the South Vietnamese armies and all the Hoki returned to the United States after the withdrawal of American troops.

In turn, the DRV Air Force lost the 154 fighter, including during the air battles: 63 MiG-17, 8 J-6 and 60 MiG-21. Also, radio engineering units and anti-aircraft missile forces of the Vietnamese People’s Army lost more than 70% of the available radar and air defense systems. Nevertheless, it can be stated that the air defense forces of the DRV, relying on the assistance provided by the USSR and the PRC, managed to inflict damage on the US military aircraft, which was the main striking force of the United States in the Vietnam War, which were unacceptable to Americans. What ultimately forced the American leadership to look for ways out of the conflict and led to the unification of North and South Vietnam into a single state.

To be continued ...

Based on:
http://army.lv/ru/PVO-v-lokalnih-voynah-i-vooruzhennih-konfliktah-Vetnam/2632/4716
http://www.plam.ru/transportavi/tehnika_i_vooruzhenie_2003_04/p2.php
http://www.airaces.ru/stati/sovetskie-specialisty-vvs-i-pvo-vo-vetname.html
http://www.uhlib.ru/voennaja_istorija/zrk_v_lokalnyh_voinah/p5.php
http://www.afa.org/magazine/Sept2004/0904vietnam.pdf
https://newsland.com/community/14/content/obozhzhennye-napalmom/3645306
http://artofwar.ru/p/ponamarchuk_e/text_0200.shtml
https://dfat.gov.au/international-relations/security/non-proliferation-disarmament-arms-control/conventional-weapons-missiles/Documents/MANPADS_countering_terrorist_threat.pdf
http://chientranhvietnam.com/2018/03/25/ten-lua-sa-7-strela-2-9k32-trong-chien-tranh-viet-nam/
http://www.airwar.ru/history/locwar/vietnam/b52/b52.html
https://www.airforce.gov.au/history/vietnam.aspx
https://www.bringingjerryhome.com/
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Vietnam Air Defense System (part of 1)
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  1. Vard
    Vard 7 July 2018 06: 50
    +10
    Key ... Inflicted losses that discouraged the continuation of the war .... Thanks to the author ... Very interesting ...
    1. Vard
      Vard 7 July 2018 07: 10
      +5
      By the way, it was said that at first the Vietnamese pilots could not withstand the overloads ... I had to feed them first ...
    2. Hole puncher
      Hole puncher 7 July 2018 07: 51
      +3
      Quote: Vard
      We inflicted losses that discouraged the continuation of the war .... Thanks to the author ... Very interesting ...

      Somewhat exaggerated. Losses in aircraft were not serious, the US industry made up for them easily, but losses in people were much more noticeable to society, which was the reason for leaving Vietnam. But the US Armed Forces suffered casualties on earth, so I repeat the influence of Vietnam’s air defense on the outcome of the war was scanty.
      1. Bongo
        7 July 2018 11: 05
        +10
        Quote: Puncher
        Somewhat exaggerated. The losses in the aircraft engineering were not serious, the US industry easily replenished them, while the losses in people were much more noticeable to society, which was the reason for leaving Vietnam.

        Nor should we overestimate the power of the American economy and industry and think that the resources of the United States were infinite. Losses, including material losses, became one of the main reasons for the US withdrawal from the conflict.
        Quote: Puncher
        Vietnam’s air defense influence on the outcome of the war was scanty.

        It was American military aviation that was the main strike force of the United States in Southeast Asia, and it is at least strange to say that the DRV air defense system had a "meager" effect on the outcome of the war. request
        1. Cherry Nine
          Cherry Nine 7 July 2018 11: 40
          0
          Sergey, you are mistaken in this.

          It is impossible to such theses that it became the main, that the main, that could shorten the war, that could not, forward in passing, in passing. Mountains of literature are written across Vietnam, this is a huge topic, it requires serious knowledge of intra-American realities.
          You have repeatedly criticized some of the regular authors of the VO for superficiality. Do not be like them. As far as iron is concerned, there are no questions for you, but you are obviously not close to the activities of Lyndon Johnson.
          1. Bongo
            7 July 2018 11: 48
            +5
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            Sergey, you are mistaken in this.

            I am always open for constructive dialogue, and you know that. hi
            Quote: Cherry Nine
            You have repeatedly criticized some of the regular authors of the VO for superficiality. Do not be like them. As far as iron is concerned, there are no questions for you, but you are obviously not close to the activities of Lyndon Johnson.

            In my purely amateurish opinion, the matter is not even in the American political kitchen, but in the fact that despite the enormous efforts and serious losses, the American aviation did not manage to completely solve the tasks. Despite a fairly successful drive-in of the DRV "into the Stone Age", this had little effect on the pressure exerted by North Vietnamese troops on South Vietnam and the successes of the communists in Laos. Although the Khmer Rouge ended up quarreling with the Vietnamese, but the United States also did not keep Cambodia. And numerous and quite tough air raids did not help.
            1. Cherry Nine
              Cherry Nine 7 July 2018 12: 15
              +2
              Quote: Bongo
              and the fact that despite huge efforts and serious losses, the American aviation failed to fully solve the tasks.

              Sergey, you look at the situation from your point of view of the Pvoshnik. American aircraft could solve any problems. The trouble is that the tasks that were set for her before Linebacker did not relate to the victory in the war. To win the war, it was necessary to isolate the theater, and Kadyrov (Pak Chon Hee). Neither the Americans were ready to provide. Were not ready to provide at the political level, above all.
              Quote: Bongo
              The United States did not deter Cambodia either. And numerous and quite tough air raids did not help.

              Sergey, it is not difficult, it seems, to find out what kind of person Polan was. If such a figure could come to power in the country, then something in the country was very wrong. And the bombing of such a country can not be fixed.
              1. Bongo
                7 July 2018 12: 33
                +3
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Sergey, you look at the situation from your point of view of the Pvoshnik. American aircraft could solve any problems. The trouble is that the tasks that were set for her before Linebacker did not relate to the victory in the war. To win the war, it was necessary to isolate the theater, and Kadyrov (Pak Chon Hee). Neither the Americans were ready to provide. Were not ready to provide at the political level, above all.

                This is not about this, but about the fact that I fundamentally disagree with the fact that:
                Quote: Puncher
                Vietnamese air defense influence on the outcome of the war was miserable
                I am deeply convinced that the air defense weapons had a huge impact on the outcome of the war as a whole.

                The Americans did not need an escalation of the conflict because of the fact that this could mean drawing in it regular Soviet and Chinese military units. After the Caribbean crisis, the parties tried to avoid such clashes.
                Quote: Cherry Nine
                Sergey, it is not difficult, it seems, to find out what kind of person Polan was. If such a figure could come to power in the country, then something in the country was very wrong. And the bombing of such a country can not be fixed.

                I'm not badly informed about what he was. Nevertheless, the Americans did not help their invasion and the South Vietnamese troops in Kampuchea and the bombing. If the United States did not hope for success, they probably would not have tried.
                1. Cherry Nine
                  Cherry Nine 7 July 2018 12: 53
                  +2
                  Quote: Bongo
                  I am deeply convinced that the air defense weapons had a huge impact on the outcome of the war as a whole.

                  You are absolutely right when you consider war as a complex of military operations. You are fundamentally wrong when transferring war to the political level. The course of hostilities affects the political outcome of the war only in one case - when one of the parties receives a crushing defeat. In Vietnam, this was not, at least while the Americans were there. Next is the work of politicians. The army of the USSR / RF did not lose either Afghanistan or the 1st Chechnya. And the countries lost.
                  Quote: Bongo
                  The Americans did not need an escalation of the conflict because of the fact that this could mean drawing in it regular Soviet and Chinese military units. After the Caribbean crisis, the parties tried to avoid such clashes.

                  Sergey, you are stepping on a crooked path of altistory. No need to do this, there are so many specialists. Okay, still in the comments, he himself is sinful, but in the article - it is not necessary.
                  Quote: Bongo
                  If the United States did not hope for success, then probably they would not try.

                  That indicates the failure of US foreign policy in the SEA direction. That is, the fakap of the State Department, as usual. Nothing more.
                  1. Amurets
                    Amurets 7 July 2018 15: 53
                    +1
                    [quote] That speaks about the failure of American foreign policy in the SEA direction. That is, the fakap of the State Department, as usual. Nothing more. / quote] General Haig, then a military adviser to the president, called for strikes using B-52 aircraft north of the 20th parallel for the reason that “only a strong shock can make Hanoi return to the negotiating table.” Nixon followed Haig's advice. The political goal was achieved - North Vietnam withdrew part of its requirements (for example, the prohibition of flights of all South Vietnamese aircraft or the complete removal of American technical specialists from the country, which led to the impossibility of repair and maintenance of the South Vietnamese Air Force) and expedited negotiations. However, in the long term, the agreement “did not work” for the Americans - it allowed the North Vietnamese forces to remain in the South and the reunification of Vietnam two years later did not happen by peaceful means, as provided for in the agreement, but as a result of the military victory of the North. The United States did not intervene in this anymore, because by that time Congress had banned the use of American forces, including aircraft, in Indochina, and the Watergate affair had eliminated the decisive Nixon scene. The former president, who loves a beautiful phrase, said later: "we won the war, but then lost the world."
                    1. Cherry Nine
                      Cherry Nine 7 July 2018 21: 21
                      +2
                      Quote: Amurets
                      Political goal has been achieved

                      Nixon's political goal was to end the war without apparent defeat. He achieved it. And then what happened to Vietnam - and the dog with him. Vietnam lost - China found (Nixon’s 72nd visit).
                      Now, by the way, Vietnam is friends with the USA against China. Yes, and with socialism somehow did not ask. So "in the long run" is just all the rules.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 7 July 2018 23: 01
                        +1
                        But in one of the documentaries about Vietnam, an interesting phrase was said about the character of the Vietnamese - they remember EVIL very well ... And they try to pay for it ...
                        "EAST IS A THIN THING ...", and ASIA all the more ...
        2. avt
          avt 7 July 2018 11: 42
          +5
          Quote: Bongo
          Do not exaggerate the power of the American economy and industry and think that US resources were infinite. Losses, including material ones, became one of the main reasons for the US to emerge from the conflict.

          good Actually, they and Linebackers strained exclusively to “soften” the Vietnamese in the negotiations, otherwise South Vietnam would have ended right away based on their results. It’s impossible and simply stupid to hold such air forces without any real advancement on earth for a long time. there already, as in Korea, there was a question about the use of Y. O. to roll the whole Viet Cong into the melted glass.
          Quote: Bongo
          It’s at least strange to say that the DRV air defense had a “meager” effect on the outcome of the war.

          Well, actually STUPID. bully It is enough to analyze the losses by the factor “cost-effectiveness” in the whole spectrum, starting with the training of personnel and the pilot in particular, ending with the notorious “logistics” -the rear support and the cost of airplanes.
      2. Mikhail Matyugin
        Mikhail Matyugin 7 July 2018 11: 09
        +1
        Quote: Puncher
        Somewhat exaggerated. Losses in aircraft were not serious, the US industry made up for them easily, but losses in people were much more noticeable to society, which was the reason for leaving Vietnam. But the US Armed Forces suffered casualties on earth, so I repeat the influence of Vietnam’s air defense on the outcome of the war was scanty.

        In general, you may be right, indeed, the manpower losses were much more significant for the United States, but even after the loss of a certain number of aircraft, including heavy strategic bombers, the issue of continuing the "limited local war" became quite acute.
      3. EvilLion
        EvilLion 7 July 2018 14: 13
        +4
        It’s bad to be stupid. Destruction of aircraft both directly increases the loss of infantry, deprived of air support, and allows its troops and industry to produce, deliver and use more resources on the ground, which also increases losses in the enemy infantry.

        And making up for losses does not mean that they do not matter. To replenish, too, resources are needed.
      4. Bogatyrev
        Bogatyrev 8 July 2018 01: 46
        +2
        How so.
        See how many air operations were interrupted due to losses, for example, Linebaker2. If it weren’t for the air defense actions, their bombing would have been much stronger and probably would have led to victory, agree?
  2. igordok
    igordok 7 July 2018 08: 01
    +6
    There is a known case when, during landing at an airfield in Thailand, it was heavily damaged by a close gap of the warhead of the B-52 missile launcher, rolled out of the runway and detonated on mines installed around the airfield to protect against partisans, only the airborne gunner in the tail survived from the crew . Subsequently, this aircraft was considered as “crashed in a flight accident”.

    Thank you. Interesting.
    And about the MG-34, I think we should not exclude the French trace.
    To be continued ...

    But this is especially pleasing.
    1. Bongo
      7 July 2018 11: 06
      +2
      Quote: igordok
      And about the MG-34, I think we should not exclude the French trace.

      A large number of captured German small arms, mortars and 75-mm VET were delivered to the USSR in the DRV in the 50-60-s.
  3. evil partisan
    evil partisan 7 July 2018 08: 24
    +5
    these were 37-mm 61-K assault rifles
    Production of my own factory (named after Kalinin) wink
  4. Amurets
    Amurets 7 July 2018 08: 46
    +6
    However, in North Vietnam there were some very rare anti-aircraft machine-gun installations. So, for the air defense of stationary objects was used the installation of the arr. 1928 g. Under the machine gun system Maxim arr. 1910
    Thanks, interesting. First, on these ZPU. Now I do not have these memoirs at hand, but according to the recollections of our pilots from the USSR in the 30s, Gomiindan and Chiang Kai-shek delivered such weapons. Basically, to cover the airfields on which the planes of our pilots - volunteers were based. In detail, I no longer remember what and when. IMHO, here from China these ZPUs could get into Vietnam.
    Now that the goods from the USSR disappeared, the next ones to Vietnam through the PRC were afraid that the secret equipment would fall into the hands of the Chinese, so it fell into it, but in a different way, through Chinese volunteers and instructors who served in the VNA. N.N. writes very well about this. Kolesnikov in his book "The War in Vietnam. How It Was. In this book you can find many interesting points about that war and not only about air defense.
    1. phair
      phair 9 July 2018 04: 31
      +1
      http://rus-guns.com/schetverennaya-zenitnaya-pule
      metnaya-ustanovka.html # more-76
      Only a machine gun in the photo of almost that system :) A wide neck (for stuffing with snow) appeared after the Finnish one (sorry for the tedium).
      In Vladivostok, on the Central Square, at the monument to the Fighters for Soviet power, the same blunder.
  5. bloodsucker
    bloodsucker 7 July 2018 08: 59
    +1
    The article is valid, but I’m more interested in the current state of Vietnam’s air defense, hopefully in the following sections.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 7 July 2018 09: 50
      +9
      Quote: bloodsucker
      I'm more interested in the current state of air defense of Vietnam

      The current state of Vietnam’s air defense is very "diverse"! wink In service is still available 85-mm and 100-mm anti-aircraft guns (and 57-mm with-60 ...), past the "cool" upgrade ... Now this is a "computerized" system! fellow
      1. Bongo
        7 July 2018 11: 19
        +4
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        In service is still available 85-mm and 100-mm anti-aircraft guns (and 57-mm with-60 ...), past the "cool" upgrade ... Now this is a "computerized" system!

        Concerning 57 and 100-mm I agree. Yes But 85-mm anti-aircraft guns are most likely already written off. Automatic tracking drives on them never had. However, still in the ranks 37-mm anti-aircraft guns.
    2. Bongo
      7 July 2018 11: 08
      +3
      Quote: bloodsucker
      The article is valid, but I’m more interested in the current state of Vietnam’s air defense, hopefully in the following sections.

      By all means Yes
  6. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 7 July 2018 09: 30
    +7
    As always, solid material! Praise and thanks to the Author! The claims to the author are dumb .... Yes . Is that a little remark-notes .... winked
    1. Compared to the MiG-17F, armed with two 30-mm guns, the supersonic J-6 had great potential when intercepting American tactical and carrier-based strike aircraft
    Judging by the "... two 30-mm cannons ...", this is J-6I (MiG-19P). The speed of this fighter didn’t exceed the speed of sound much; and then, most likely, not for a long time approximately-averaged "/ - 1450 km / h ....). Compared to the MiG-17-step forward, but can not be compared, for example. with the F-4 can not.
    2.According to Soviet sources, during the repulse of the “New Year’s air offensive”, the enemy’s 81 aircraft was destroyed, of which 34 strategic bomber B-52.
    In fact, it was going to infa that the Americans recognized the loss of 15 strategists B-52 ...
    3. For the first time, the ZU-23-2 installations "appeared" in photographs in the press during the spring attack of 1972 in the vicinity of Unlock .... (if I am not mistaken, then the North Vietnamese first used the 130-mm M-46 guns .. .)
    4. The first use of the Strela-2 MANPADS by the Viet Cong was recorded by the Americans in March 1971 (!) In Laos during Operation Lamshon-719
    5. In South Vietnam was captured (I do not remember: by Americans or South Vietnamese ...) a "home-made" North Vietnamese-made anti-aircraft self-propelled gun based on the T-34 (37 mm) like the Chinese Type63 .. The Americans decided that this was a large-scale production and even appropriated it its own "nominal" index ... but it turned out that "anti-aircraft guns" were produced 2 pcs. ! Something did not grow together with comrade Ho Chi Minh! (The reliability of the information I have, in fact, is in doubt ... !!!)
    6. It was the request of the "Vietnamese comrades" that Kolos "Kolos" owed its appearance to ...
    1. Bongo
      7 July 2018 11: 17
      +3
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Judging by the "... two 30-mm cannons ...", this is J-6I (MiG-19P). The speed of this fighter didn’t exceed the speed of sound much; and then, most likely, not for a long time approximately-averaged "/ - 1450 km / h ....). Compared to the MiG-17-step forward, but can not be compared, for example. with the F-4 can not.

      Thanks for the comment! hi
      But still for the J-6 surprise attacks suited more than the MiG-17F. And at high supersonic speeds, the air battles were not conducted.
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      In fact, it was going to infa that the Americans recognized the loss of 15 strategists B-52 ...

      On soviet according to The following publication provides US loss statistics. hi
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      It was the request of the "Vietnamese comrades" that owes its appearance to "MANPADS" ,, Kolos "...

      This model was not accepted for service and was not mass produced. No.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 7 July 2018 13: 19
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        This model was not accepted for service and was not mass produced.

        Well, yes ... but I didn’t say that it was "accepted and produced"! As an "example" ,, MANPADS ",, Kolos" is often mentioned ... But "Kolos" ,, killed ,, MANPADS "Strela-2" ...
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 7 July 2018 16: 26
      +3
      Quote: Nikolaevich I
      Judging by the "... two 30-mm cannons ...", this is J-6I (MiG-19P). The speed of this fighter didn’t exceed the speed of sound much; and then, most likely, not for a long time approximately-averaged "/ - 1450 km / h ....). Compared to the MiG-17-step forward, but can not be compared, for example. with the F-4 can not.
      For a number of reasons, the speed of supersonic interceptors at low altitudes is limited to 1320–1380 km / h. Not necessarily specified types. And yet, V. Ilyin. Bombers:
      “The Americans bombed most airfields in North Vietnam and MiG-21 aircraft could take off only from taxiways and unpaved runways of limited size using SPRD-99 powder accelerators. The aircraft were delivered to suitable take-off platforms by Mi-6 helicopters with external load. The MiG-21 flew to intercept from a duty position on the ground after receiving a signal from a long-range radar warning system organized by Soviet specialists, which made it possible to detect B-52s flying at high altitude at a distance of up to 350 km. " It probably became clear in what difficult conditions the Vietnamese had to use their aircraft, and here, at low altitudes, MiG-17 aircraft showed themselves excellently as low-altitude interceptors, and to 30 mm shells the Americans could not deliver active and passive interference.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 8 July 2018 10: 33
        +2
        Quote: Amurets
        the speed of supersonic interceptors at low altitudes is limited by 1320-1380 km / h. Optional types

        At low altitudes? But what about the actions against the stratospheric B-52? Maybe it’s not for nothing that only the MiG-52 acted against the B-21 (airplanes capable of "speed" on equal terms .... or almost "on equal footing" with "phantoms"), but for some reason there are no examples of MiG- 17 or J-6 wink
        And from what unpaved runways did the MiG-21 take off? what From the steering tracks of the "stationary" airfields, yes ... The "dumb" (as M. Zadornov claimed) Americans, having bombed the main strips, considered the combat mission accomplished, and the steering tracks had zero attention! And it was from them that the “blinks” took off on SPRD-99 ... from the “stationary” airfields! And they sat down where it would be “suitable” .... already without ammunition, with almost empty fuel tanks (in general, lightened ... And if there wasn’t a suitable one, then catapulted ...). And then, on the Mi-6, they “drove”, “blink” back to the “stationary” airfields!
  7. sevtrash
    sevtrash 7 July 2018 10: 18
    +5
    During Linebacker I, the Americans practically suppressed the air defense system of Vietnam - the advanced radar detection points were destroyed, the runway of the airdromes was destroyed by raids, and as it was restored, the following raids were carried out. Having opened its position, the air defense system, having not had time to leave its position within 40 minutes, was destroyed. The pendant station for active jamming via the missile control channel, adopted in January 1968, made it possible to reduce the combat effectiveness of the S-75 complex in some cases from 0,8 to 0,19. A feature of the Linebacker I operation was the massive use of precision weapons - guided aerial bombs with laser or television homing heads. The probable circular deflection of these ammunition was only 10 m, which sharply increased the effectiveness of strikes against small and well-protected targets. The mining of Haiphong, the main seaport of Vietnam (85%), the activity of this port was practically stopped. And through Haiphong it was possible to supply more modern weapons without fear that the Chinese would grab it for themselves, as they did on the railways.
    As a result of Linebacker II, carpet bombing, all major enterprises and military installations of Hanoi and Haiphong were destroyed.
    As a result, the Vietnamese entered into negotiations. In the end, Vietnam won anyway. A parallel with Iraq suggests itself, but moral and volitional qualities from the lowest to the highest echelon are incomparable. As well as landscape features, supply options, restrictions for the United States in the use of forces and means of a political nature.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 7 July 2018 12: 00
      +5
      Quote: sevtrash
      The parallel with Iraq begs

      Uh-huh.
      After Vietnam, the Americans carried out gigantic work, both within the army and political. At the slightest sign that the U.S. Army was entering a foreign civil war, a decisive leap into the bushes usually followed. In the year 91, an operation was carried out with enormous forces with strictly limited goals. By 2003, Vietnam had already forgotten, climbed to overthrow Saddam. The result - having lost less than 200 people during a military operation, the Americans and allies gained more than 5000 200s during the occupation + removed the main enemy of Iran + ISIS (banned in Russia) + a very distant option of democracy in Iraq from Switzerland.
      Now, I must admit, in Syria, Americans have returned to the concept of good cannibals and bad cannibals, which has repeatedly proved its effectiveness.
  8. Fayter2017
    Fayter2017 7 July 2018 11: 38
    +7
    I read the memories of one anti-aircraft gunner:
    They were given a maximum of half an hour of time in order to turn around, shoot and flush. Otherwise, the Americans covered the square with fire. He regretted that no one needed their experience returning home. At home everyone was busy according to plan, they spent up to two hours of time.
    When he fell ill with some kind of tropical fever, then the Vietnamese for two days put him on his feet with folk remedies.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 7 July 2018 13: 31
      +6
      Quote: Fayter2017
      He regretted that no one needed their experience returning home.

      Is it just the “Vietnamese experience”? I read the "regrets" of the Afghans about the fact that the "Afghan" experience is ignored and not studied! And the "embarrassment" of the first stage of the "Afghan" war is connected, in large part, with the fact that the "mountain" experience of the Great Patriotic War was forgotten !
  9. vindigo
    vindigo 7 July 2018 14: 03
    +1
    Interestingly, North Vietnam’s air defense was more effective than North Korean air defense? You read about the war in Korea, it feels like there was complete UN dominance in the air. Only over Yaluzyan, the Americans received a rebuff and suffered heavy losses. And how were things in Vietnam? Did the Americans clean out the cities too? It is clear that a different technological level, but still interesting.
    1. Karenius
      Karenius 7 July 2018 14: 12
      0
      He told already ... In Vietnam, it happened that the Yankees in just a couple of days could destroy all the antennas of our radars ... this is when they equipped their missiles with "memory"
      ... Well, I want to remember that anti-aircraft gunner from the Moldavian SSR that was treated here. According to him, he warned his superiors in Vietnam that he would begin to shoot down his planes if he was not given a vacation home :)
  10. EvilLion
    EvilLion 7 July 2018 14: 10
    +1
    With a mass in the combat position of 220 kg, the installation was disassembled into five parts weighing no more than 40 kg.


    What about arithmetic? Or patron caps are considered separately?
    1. Bongo
      7 July 2018 15: 17
      +3
      Quote: EvilLion
      What about arithmetic? Or patron caps are considered separately?

      Most likely not only the "patron", but the sight. In any case, in all sources, including here: Mining anti-aircraft machine gun unit PGI-1 say:
  11. Lebedev Sergey
    Lebedev Sergey 7 July 2018 18: 51
    0
    Hands off Vietnam
    Music: Boris Karamyshev Words: Onegin Gadzhikasimov


    1. RomanRoman
      RomanRoman 8 July 2018 22: 13
      +1
      Tears flow from this propaganda song. Hello.
      The singer believes in what she sings. In which country we lived recourse But still this is our story.
  12. faiver
    faiver 7 July 2018 19: 06
    +4
    as always, it’s a pleasure to read, to the author a few pluses good
  13. sivuch
    sivuch 8 July 2018 10: 22
    +6
    Sergey, hello
    As always, I won’t write about what’s good in an article smile
    some clarifications:
    It is possible that a flicker mode was introduced on the P-12MP (I remember it was like that on the P-18), but certainly not against the Shriyks - there were no PRRs operating in the meter range then, and now they don’t. More precisely, with an active head, but this, in fact, is no longer a PRR, but a multi-purpose missile.
    Maybe I missed, but not a word was said about the application of the Standards in the version of the PI, and they were much more effective than the Shrike.
    Shilki, NYA, appeared in 75, when formally the war had not yet ended, but everything was clear to the court.
    And the more important factor, in my opinion, was the complete absence of automatic control systems - for example, there was a case when as many as 8 SA-75 divisions were fired by Firebi alone, with the first shooter shooting down, and the rest finishing off with fragments.
    1. Bongo
      8 July 2018 10: 30
      +3
      Quote: sivuch
      Sergey, hello

      Hi, Igor!
      Quote: sivuch
      It is possible that F-12MP introduced a flicker mode (remember, this was the case with the P-18), but it certainly didn’t contradict the Shrayks - the PI, who worked in the meter range, did not exist at that time, and now it does not.

      Yes, I somehow didn’t think about it, although I knew about the fact that the PRR was not induced on the meter band. When you write, sometimes wedges. request
      Quote: sivuch
      Maybe I missed, but not a word was said about the application of the Standards in the version of the PI, and they were much more effective than the Shrike.

      Curtain used. Yes
      Quote: sivuch
      Shilka, NNZ, appeared in 75, when the war was not formally ended

      According to my data in 1973, i.e. approximately simultaneously with Strela-2 and C-125.
      Quote: sivuch
      And the more important factor, in my opinion, was the complete absence of the ACS - for example, there is a case when Firebie fired as many as the 8 divisions of the CA-75 divisions, and the first gunman shot down, and the rest finished off the fragments

      With this I fully agree! Yes
  14. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 9 July 2018 10: 33
    +1
    But the US Armed Forces suffered casualties on earth, so I repeat the influence of Vietnam’s air defense on the outcome of the war was scanty.

    For the United States, aviation heavily replaced artillery and land transport, so its role in the war cannot be called miniscule. This is very ineffective, but the US fought in Vietnam like that. Air defense not only caused the disease of the loss of air transport in South Vietnam, but in addition to the losses, the accuracy of tactical air strikes interfered, which is no less important.
  15. Kostadinov
    Kostadinov 9 July 2018 10: 47
    0
    In turn, the DRV Air Force lost 154 fighters, including during air battles: 63 MiG-17s, 8 J-6s and 60 MiG-21s.

    1. Is it Vietnamese data on their losses or a statement about the "victories" of US pilots?
    2. Air defense interceptors and ZURS - large losses (as cost) and less than 30% downing of enemy aircraft. Anti-aircraft artillery and small arms - minimal losses as cost (old weapons and ammunition from stocks) and 70% of downed planes and helicopters.
    The same thing struck in Korea. But all attention is always paid to pilots, airplanes, ZURS and this is normal. The planes and missiles are more interesting to the public.
  16. Imobile
    Imobile 9 July 2018 11: 59
    +1
    Very, very interesting. Waiting for more! I’m looking for answers why, with the complete superiority of the characteristics of our aircraft and the use of our pilots, we are the ones that cleaned the air, but also played a role not even in the background. Did the Soviet leadership draw conclusions?
    1. Bongo
      9 July 2018 13: 13
      +1
      Quote: Imobile
      I am looking for answers why, with the complete superiority of the characteristics of our aircraft and the use of our pilots, we have cleaned the air, but also played the role of not even the second plan. Did the Soviet leadership draw conclusions?

      The MiGs had no decisive superiority. No. Our vehicles outperformed the F-4 in maneuverability. But the Americans on the Phantoms had excellent radar and medium-range missiles for that time. In addition, American aviation has always had numerical superiority and better information awareness thanks to DRLO aircraft.
      1. Imobile
        Imobile 9 July 2018 13: 17
        0
        But what about the new MIGs?
        1. Bongo
          9 July 2018 13: 46
          0
          Quote: Imobile
          But what about the new MIGs?

          Compare the characteristics of RP-22, which stood on the MiG-21МФ and AN / APQ-72, that stood on the F-4В. And also the rocket armament of these planes. However, the heavier and less maneuverable "Phantom" also had greater thrust-to-weight ratio.