Military Review

Poor Ukrainian "Oplot" - not a "Oplot"

74
Poor Ukrainian "Oplot" - not a "Oplot"



A lot has already been written about the last place of Ukrainian tankers on the Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 tank biathlon in Germany. But the explanation of the reason for such a disastrous result on the part of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine is the inexperience of crews ("Lenta.ru") I was very surprised.

The impressions of the direct participants of the biathlon, who were accused of being unprofessional, are always the most interesting, because this is the opinion of people from the “field” who sit directly in the car and evaluate it in a specific situation. Appeared video biathlon participants and their assessment tanks explained a lot.

I was interested in two points: what tanks did Ukraine present at biathlon and the reasons that prevented effective firing from the tank?

According to official reports, Oplot tanks were sent to biathlon in Germany. The photographs of the tanks clearly show that this is not the “Stronghold”! This tank is easily recognizable by the cylindrical panoramic sight towering above the commander's hatch. There are other tanks in the photographs that are not similar to the “Stronghold”. What are these tanks?

Tankers opened this secret. It turns out that these are really not “Strongholds”, they were made back in 2001 year! Perhaps these were the first modifications of the tank, which later became the “Stronghold”. There was never a “Oplot” tank in the Ukrainian army, they hardly produced the entire 49 units under the Thai contract and were sent to Thailand.

It turned out that four tanks were sent to biathlon from a single batch of ten tanks made for the Ukrainian army during the entire existence of Ukraine. More in the Ukrainian army did not receive. As I recall, there was a scandal that the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine refused to pay them. It is probably for this reason that six tanks from this lot were stored at the Malyshev plant, where there are no conditions for long-term storage of tanks.

Four tanks have disappeared somewhere. There are reliable versions that they have long been sold in the United States, because they really needed money. After years of 17, they remembered these tanks and decided to demonstrate them on German biathlon as a miracle of Ukrainian armored vehicles. Now this batch of tanks is called differently T-84, T-84U, the first version of the "Bastion". In fact, this is a further development of the Soviet T-80UD.

I was surprised by the approach of the Ukrainian military and industry to the preparation of tanks and crews for biathlon. Tankers describe in detail how they were “handed over” to these tanks at the Malyshev plant and how the crews were trained. After seventeen years of storage without proper conditions and without carrying out routine maintenance, the tanks decided to send to the biathlon. At the same time, they did not even bother to carry out acceptance tests and check the characteristics of the systems and components. After such a long storage without meeting the necessary conditions, many defects could appear on them, which was already the case in Germany.

The plant Malysheva did not care what will happen to these tanks. As tankers said, the plant was not “paid” for the training of the crew, probably they were also offended for the long-time non-payment of these tanks, and the plant did not train the crews. They are like beggars, all the time they were asked to do something on these tanks, and they were dismissed from them as if they were bothersome flies. With such an untested technique, without crew coherence, they were sent to biathlon.

According to their characteristics, the tanks presented on biathlon were at the level of the last Soviet tank T-80UD, as well as T-72 and T-90. On these tanks there was a perfect fire control system, which even today is inferior to very few people. With good training of tanks and crews, they had to show themselves well at the biathlon.

But the tanks were in poor condition and, in principle, even with good training, the crew could not claim a good result. Faults rained down one after another, starting with such “trifles” as leaks in the fuel system, inoperative sensors of the engine systems, sparking terminals on the batteries. Much more serious problems were with the fire control system.

The main reason for the failure of the biathlon was the inability to shoot from the tank due to the constant failures of the loading mechanism and the gun stabilizer. For many years, with my specialists, I was engaged in tank-based fire control systems and approximately imagine what could have happened there.

According to the crew, when the MSA was turned on, the cannon “shook” all the time in the tank, and they barely aimed it at the target. By indirect evidence, this is observed due to the high rigidity of the stabilizer due to the lack of configuration of this circuit or a defect in the control unit. They changed blocks, but this does not always help. In each tank, the control unit must be adjusted to the individual characteristics of the tank. Without this, the defect cannot be eliminated, and this should be handled by trained specialists. These are only available at the factory and in the repair battalions at the level, in my opinion, of the tank division. Tankers do not know how to do this and do not have the right to engage in such work.

After a long storage tanks could change the parameters of the gun and turret (moments of resistance). The stabilizer had to be reconfigured, and this was not done. It is highly probable that defects have appeared in the control units due to aging of the element base, especially as tank equipment in Ukraine is manufactured by non-specialized enterprises and without strict control of the element base used.

The second serious malfunction was the failure of the loading mechanism due to the blocking of further operations by the sensors during the loading cycle of the gun. The sensors should work this way, they ensure the safety of the tank and the crew, while the cannon is still being charged with a blank, and an explosive projectile with a sleeve. The cause of the blockages could be a sensor failure, which is unlikely, or unacceptably large backlashes and defects in the nodes of the loading mechanism, leading to a false positive or a failure of the sensor.

Apparently, the way it was. The tanks were stored for a long time and were not serviced. At the tank factory, the necessary technologists have already been lost, there are no specialists with relevant qualifications and there is no demanding military acceptance. Parts and components of the tank are made of "improvised" metal, which over time can lose its characteristics. Manufactured and assembled without technology, the nodes eventually cease to function. There are many such nodes in the loading mechanism, and with its super-dense layout, the tolerances on parts and assemblies are very tight. Therefore, any liberties with their manufacture can lead to serious consequences.

So tankers on biathlon had to be nervous. In a stressful situation, when it is impossible to make a shot, you will not only use obscenities to evaluate the equipment and those who made it, but also require the introduction of an additional crew member to load the gun.

The tank, exhibited by Ukraine on biathlon, is an analogue of the T-80UD tank with a small degree of modernization, several hundred of which were delivered under a contract in 1996 — 1998 to Pakistan. For twenty years of operation on this tank there were no special complaints, that is, the tank made on the Soviet backlog showed good characteristics. Later made almost the same tanks - of a completely different quality, and even in the conditions of the summer range they are practically incapable.

All of this suggests that the Ukrainian tank industry has degraded so much that not only did it produce ten tanks for its own army in a quarter of a century, because these tanks were of the lowest level in quality and only disgraced the country in international competitions.

In addition to the quality of the tanks, it is worth noting the preparation for participation in the biathlon. Degradation also occurs at the highest level of command of the army and defense industry. The preparation of tanks and crews for biathlon could not be carried out either at the technical or organizational level. The elementary logic prompted to carry out maintenance work for a long time stored tanks, debug them, test and conduct a full cycle of crew training. None of this has been done.

According to the stories of tankers, they were not needed by anyone, neither to their own command, nor to the Ukroboronprom structures responsible for the quality of the preparation of the equipment. With this approach and the corresponding result. This pitiable experience should always be borne in mind: there are no trifles in the preparation of serious events, and any business can be ruined without preparing it.
Author:
Photos used:
https://visti.pro
74 comments
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  1. Vard
    Vard 4 July 2018 06: 11
    +9
    I recommended that the Ukrainian Armed Forces do construction of the pie instead of the IRAs .. it looks like instead of tanks they need to start building carts ... Not those ... On pick-ups ... And on carts with horses ...
    1. cost
      cost 4 July 2018 19: 09
      +2
      A lot has already been written about the last place of Ukrainian tankers at the Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 tank biathlon in Germany. But the explanation of the reason for such a deplorable result on the part of the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine by the inexperience of the crews (Lenta.ru) surprised me very much.

      Why is it so surprising? If a respected author first participated in the competition of Papuan folk dances, he would also take the last place. And why not be ashamed and complex. Especially gloating. Experience is a matter of gain
      1. Laughtermaster
        Laughtermaster 4 July 2018 22: 22
        +4
        Experience is a matter of gain

        This phrase implies progress in business, and the reality is that the newer the tank, the worse the result. This is not their first performance in Germany, on the old 64s the result was better.
        1. cost
          cost 4 July 2018 23: 24
          +1
          Andrey, this is how I write that for the first time they performed on a new tank
          Best regards, Dmitry
  2. svp67
    svp67 4 July 2018 06: 22
    +11
    In the presented photographs of the tanks it is clearly visible that this is not a "Hold"!
    I can DISAPPOINT the author, it is the OPLOT TANK, it is the TANK, and not the OPLOT BM, which was delivered to Thailand
    1. Bo Yari
      Bo Yari 4 July 2018 13: 09
      +2
      you are absolutely right. but besides Thais, I heard that Indonesia and Pakistan signed them. Not so they are already bad ...
    2. tank-master
      tank-master 4 July 2018 20: 25
      +3
      Thanks to the author for the article ... but you are wrong.
      The T-84 tank (object 478DU9) went to the competition, and the BM "Oplot" tank (object 478DU10) was delivered to Thailand
      Although these are all modifications of the Soviet T-80UD (object 478B), the code is "Birch"
      Tip: there’s nothing to criticize the specialist tank builder, the author of the article.
      1. svp67
        svp67 5 July 2018 04: 10
        0
        Quote: tank-master
        The T-84 tank (object 478DU9) went to the competition, and the BM "Oplot" tank (object 478DU10) was delivered to Thailand

        “And Oplot itself (or, more correctly, the main battle tank T-84 /“ 478DU9 object ”) has already been adopted by the Ukrainian army - back in February 2000, on the basis of Cabinet resolution No. 237-5 from 08.02.2000. Not only that. , in Kharkov, 2001 produced just 10 machines, which, after payment in 2005-2006, were sent to the 92-th Chuguev separate mechanized brigade. "
        I have my own story with these tanks. And I followed them closely when there was still no talk about BM Oplot

        Quote: tank-master
        Tip: there’s nothing to criticize the specialist tank builder, the author of the article.

        Advice: think with YOUR brains, but for this it is better to study the materiel, that is, history.
        And with all due respect to Yuri Mikhailovich, but I have something to criticize him and his brainchild for. How to practice tank forces
        1. tank-master
          tank-master 5 July 2018 10: 47
          0
          Quote: svp67
          Answer: Think with YOUR brains, and for this it is better to study the materiel, that is, history. Yes, and with all due respect to Yuri Mikhailovich, but I have something to CRITICIZE him and his brainchild for. How to practice tank forces


          What are you talking about svp67 ... what brains ... when I collected DN9 myself in 2001 .. and before that I worked on the CD on it ... and put a little knowledge to the Bastion ... and I know how each tank is different ... so that sit on the ass straight .. otherwise you have to stand straight.
          And I know for sure how to operate each tank and their Pros and Cons ... but the Ukrainians .. do not have this knowledge and will not get it.
          1. svp67
            svp67 5 July 2018 13: 50
            +3
            Quote: tank-master
            when I assembled DU9 myself in 2001 .. and before that I was engaged in CD on it ..

            Yes, well, as I was collecting, it’s obvious, and judging by the commentary, one should not expect the best from such specialists. Here is ROUGH not worth it. And then after all it is possible to run into "reciprocal rudeness", then WILL BE OFFENDED.
            Quote: tank-master
            And I know for sure how to operate each tank and their Pros and Cons ...

            If they knew, then "they would not have stepped on the same rake." It’s good that even the mind was enough to not let the T-80 go, in a fit of “company patriotism” returning to “ingenious solutions”. But they could not refuse cable drives in the MOH.
            Quote: tank-master
            but Ukrainians .. do not have this knowledge and will not get it.

            Yes ... yes, you have GREAT MANIA.
            1. tank-master
              tank-master 6 July 2018 09: 13
              0
              In the city of elderberry, and in Kiev, uncle ... and where else is the cable drive traps?
              Moreover, this is the development of the 60s ... the USSR?
              1. svp67
                svp67 6 July 2018 21: 20
                0
                Quote: tank-master
                In the city of elderberry, and in Kiev, uncle ...

                Not in Kiev, but in Kharkov.
                Quote: tank-master
                where does the trap cable drive come in yet?
                Moreover, this is the development of the 60s ... the USSR?

                And despite the fact that now is 2018, and the Ministry of Health, as it was installed, but not it alone, they are installed. Although the same cable trap drive is the cause of many troubles on these tanks. There is a T-72 trap without a cable drive and it works without failures. But the "company" DOES NOT ALLOW to redesign ... and the pallets fly into the conveyor, breaking the wiring of the VKU and bending the legs of the MZ
                1. tank-master
                  tank-master 9 July 2018 22: 43
                  0
                  The Arctic fox is full .... and who will develop ... and for whom for the UKRO army ... or do you want to do this .... ??? Who are you svp67? .... and remember ... when everything is set up everything works like a clock in the MZ T-80UD and T-64B ... and in the BM Bulat ... but when the tanks are transferred to the APU ... they surrender exactly as they should "... so that everything bends and breaks. And when the captain screams in the video like a pig and tanks don’t shoot at him ... this is the best praise to Kharkov tank builders ... these tanks will not shoot at DONBASS. And you "svp67" living in Russia ... or is it just registration ... you want these tanks to work well .. and maybe you also want a jerk of tanks of the Ukrainian Armed Forces to Belgorod .... Admins what and who is "svp67"
                  1. Serg koma
                    Serg koma 14 July 2018 10: 13
                    +2
                    Sorry to get involved, but learn to Respect your opponent. Maybe “Ukraine is Europe”, and now dispenses with “YOU”, but at the Dear Forum this is considered tactless.
                    Your posts, in relation to the opponent, are very reminiscent of "who does not skip that Muscovite" - do not become like such degenerates. hi
                    PS
                    "An important condition for a real, good and honest argument (for conviction or for victory, etc. - anyway) is respect for the beliefs and beliefs of the adversary, if we see that they are sincere ... Usually people ... tend to think a person who holds other beliefs, or an idiot, or a bastard, or, in any case, a real "enemy" ... You can refute it in the most decisive way, but without offending other people's convictions with ridicule, harsh words, or mockery; especially without mocking them before sympathetic crowd. - Respect for other people's beliefs is not only a sign of respect for someone else's personality, but also a sign of a wide and developed mind."
                    S.I. Povarnin "The dispute. On the theory and practice of the dispute"
  3. inkass_98
    inkass_98 4 July 2018 06: 56
    +12
    Honestly, this quality of training of ukrotankistov and their technology does not upset me at all. Less victims in the East will be. And the “Stronghold” was, T-80 or T-34 in this particular case is not important at all.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 4 July 2018 14: 28
      +3
      Quite rightly. Let already be so than to crush the fields near Lugansk and Donetsk with caterpillars and shooting at houses.
      Quote: inkass_98
      Honestly, this quality of training of ukrotankistov and their technology does not upset me at all. Less victims in the East will be. And the “Stronghold” was, T-80 or T-34 in this particular case is not important at all.
    2. Mooh
      Mooh 4 July 2018 16: 41
      +7
      absolutely not upset.

      And me very much. Now all of NATO knows that Soviet tanks are shit, and Russian tankers are unfinished. They dishonored not ourselves, but us. No one in the world of Ukrainians does not distinguish from Russians, and their tank, externally, almost does not differ from ours. So the company to discredit Russia in Europe received a logical continuation.
      1. Laughtermaster
        Laughtermaster 4 July 2018 22: 31
        +3
        No one in the world of Ukrainians does not distinguish Russian

        This adds problems only to those who do not see the difference, but not to us.
        outwardly from ours almost no different

        If you choose a technique without understanding how it differs, then again, this is their problem.
      2. region58
        region58 6 July 2018 09: 50
        +1
        Quote: MooH
        Now all of NATO knows that Soviet tanks are shit, and Russian tankers are unfinished.

        Yes, let them think so ... Surprise will be (s) ...
  4. Curious
    Curious 4 July 2018 07: 57
    +21
    Every day there is an article on the site designed to convince that everything is very bad in Ukraine. Why do you need this? Just wondering. A huge country with unique resources and a rich history, instead of rejoicing that she has better than others, rejoices that someone is worse than hers.
    1. Vard
      Vard 4 July 2018 08: 25
      +12
      And who's stopping you? Write what you have good ...
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 July 2018 08: 39
        +7
        You, judging by the commentary, are a representative of the famous Odessa ethnic group.
        1. Vard
          Vard 4 July 2018 09: 47
          +26
          Alas ... Mordvin ... and ancestors to the seventh generation of Mordvin ... But probably communication ... a lot of friends from this ethnic group ... leaves its mark ... But we criticize Ukrainian only from resentment ... how much invested in you in due time ... and what we have ... cookies broke everything ...
    2. Serge Gorely
      Serge Gorely 4 July 2018 08: 49
      +21
      Quote: Curious
      Every day there is an article on the site designed to convince that everything is very bad in Ukraine. Why do you need this? Just wondering. A huge country with unique resources and a rich history, instead of rejoicing that she has better than others, rejoices that someone is worse than hers.

      Yes, damn it, in ukrosi 2/3 of the material about the famine in Crimea and the imminent uprising in Moscow. Why do you need this?
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 July 2018 09: 21
        +5
        Do you regularly read ukroSMI such a "yellow" hit? Horror. Of course, if you take this level, then everything is clear. The specifics of the "genre" - the worse, the better. But we are not discussing the yellow press. Or do you and the VO site fall into this category?
        1. Serge Gorely
          Serge Gorely 4 July 2018 09: 40
          +10
          Quote: Curious
          Do you regularly read ukroSMI such a "yellow" hit? Horror. Of course, if you take this level, then everything is clear. The specifics of the "genre" - the worse, the better. But we are not discussing the yellow press. Or do you and the VO site fall into this category?

          And what is yellow in this article? Absolutely thematic, dedicated to the analysis of TANK weapons, as well as the state of the Armed Forces of a potential enemy.
          1. Curious
            Curious 4 July 2018 11: 05
            +1
            If for you this is a normal thematic article - there are no questions for you.
    3. BAI
      BAI 4 July 2018 09: 41
      +6
      Quote: Curious
      Why do you need this?

      Obviously, because Ukraine is the most likely military adversary in the near future. A military conflict with it is more likely than with any other country or military bloc. The USA and China pose a smaller threat. Therefore - the natural uplift of morale before a possible future war.
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 July 2018 11: 01
        +4
        And who do you think will attack?
        1. Serge Gorely
          Serge Gorely 4 July 2018 11: 20
          +3
          Quote: Curious
          And who do you think will attack?

          Any country that is either a member or aspiring to NATO is a likely adversary of the Russian Federation.
        2. Mwg
          Mwg 4 July 2018 11: 27
          -1
          exclusively defending themselves from Kremlin aggression
          1. tlSver4-KL (tat)
            tlSver4-KL (tat) 4 July 2018 12: 09
            +2
            MVG (Valery)
            You do not serve in "Echo M ..."? or are you a fan of ECA ..? Is this for the Spanish team, you, along with the neoliberals, were you so fiercely sick?
            And now. be so kind as to tell us about the “aggression” of the Kremlin.
            1. Mwg
              Mwg 4 July 2018 12: 57
              0
              Curious asked: And who do you think will attack?
              MVG replied: exclusively defending itself from the Kremlin’s aggression.
              What is not clear? Ask about Curious Kremlin aggression, they’re talking about it
        3. 72jora72
          72jora72 4 July 2018 13: 30
          -1
          And who do you think will attack?
          Maybe you, or maybe we will have to make a forced reorganization.
          1. Curious
            Curious 4 July 2018 13: 37
            +1
            Do you mean by sanitation means cleaning your own sofa of waste products, or are you personally capable of something more?
    4. staviator
      staviator 4 July 2018 11: 25
      +12
      Quote: Curious

      Every day there is an article on the site designed to convince that everything is very bad in Ukraine. Why do you need this? Just wondering. A huge country with unique resources and a rich history, instead of rejoicing that she has better than others, rejoices that someone is worse than hers.

      But you rejoice at what normal people grieve. The deaths of our pilots, Dr. Lisa, who saved Your children., dances after the death of the ensemble of Aleksandrov. After the crash of any Russian aircraft, you have ecstasy, one mockery at the veterans is worth it, but you look how touchy you are, I didn’t like the article. pranks. negative
      1. staviator
        staviator 4 July 2018 11: 31
        +8
        These are the pictures that adequate people can come up with, and Curious?
      2. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 5 July 2018 03: 19
        +1
        Skakuasy in his repertoire: "And what about us?" It is possible to water them with slop and mock Russians and generally all Russians. But Russians and Russians can’t mock the skakuas.
    5. meandr51
      meandr51 4 July 2018 11: 26
      +7
      Simply, Ukraine finally proved that it is not only not an ally and friend, but the worst enemy of Russia, even ready at the cost of its death to make Russia another muck. Not a single country in the world, including the USA, has brought down more slander and hatred against Russia. Comparable only to Nazi Germany. Therefore, the attitude towards this country is like an enemy. The worse her weapons are, the better for Russia.
    6. vkfriendly
      vkfriendly 4 July 2018 11: 51
      +3
      You squandered and destroyed resources with your own hands, decommunized history and rewrote what was left of the country? Nothing at all, the population will scatter, the old people will die out.
    7. Mikhail Zubkov
      Mikhail Zubkov 4 July 2018 11: 53
      +6
      What we - hostile to us traitors also to praise? There is a clip in which a dumb and puny dill dill 15-17 years old teaches the basics of his "tank thought" of the bison designers of the Kharkov Design Bureau Morozov, doctors of sciences of the Soviet tank school, of a very respectable age. At the direction of his micro-duce Beggars. Like that, the cleaver teaches how to build and use tanks to defeat Moskalsky tanks. For this, it is necessary to put him once into a tank without a tank helmet and drive a circle or two across the tank race track at "instructor" speed. Having beaten with a bad head on iron, maybe a little imperfections will come into the mind, a publicist impudent ...
    8. MPN
      MPN 4 July 2018 11: 58
      +5
      Quote: Curious
      Every day there is an article on the site designed to convince that everything is very bad in Ukraine.

      And what to convince then? Malyshev Plant, KHKBM, KHKBT, were one of the leading (if not the best) in the tank industry of the USSR, what do we see now?
      A huge country with unique resources and a rich history instead of rejoicing,
      It’s a lot of mind to destroy such a colossus. And this should be rejoiced? Well, I'm glad for you.
      1. tank-master
        tank-master 4 July 2018 20: 37
        +1
        Yes, yes ... it is necessary to be able to ruin such enterprises ... so I can say it was nice to watch the "national Ukrainian cadres" make decisions, each worse than the previous one ... and there was nothing to do .. they themselves destroyed everything.
    9. tlSver4-KL (tat)
      tlSver4-KL (tat) 4 July 2018 12: 03
      +4
      It’s not necessary to pretend, Victor, that you don’t understand with whom you are participating in “games” near the borders of Russia and against whom these exercises are being held ..
      So what should we rejoice at: your success in preparing for the war with Russia? Do not do stupid things, they are behind your shoulders so a full cart.
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 July 2018 12: 41
        +3
        Well. Thank you all for your comments. True, most of the comments correspond to the category of "himself do ... ak", although my questions were somewhat provocative. But, nevertheless, the comments are written from the heart, which allows you to form an opinion about the situation. Disappointing, I must say.
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 4 July 2018 17: 10
          +4
          Quote: Curious
          allows you to make an opinion about the situation. Disappointing, I must say.

          But is it worth reproaching the Russians for not being happy with the “successes” of Ukraine? What are the "successes", such is the attitude ... "Successes" of Ukraine, which the deputies, military, members of the Ukrainian government joyfully report: Urya! Almost created a "tremendous and terrible" rocket! Muscovites are in a panic "Raska has done it! ...... And under a joyful grunt, the discussion begins: Will the rocket reach Moscow ent? Will it not reach? And what city of Russia will it reach? And how many missiles do you need to destroy this city? And how to make Is a “terrible” missile even worse to fly to Moscow? I can’t vouch for absolute accuracy, but it’s all in such a “spirit! What do you think, how are such ukro-successes, and more ... such“ joyful ”discussions can affect the mood of the Russians? So .... call that we are not happy ..... request
        2. Mihail28
          Mihail28 6 July 2018 23: 35
          0
          And how did you manage to change shoes in a jump?
    10. Bo Yari
      Bo Yari 4 July 2018 13: 13
      +4
      this is how hybrid Russian aggression is expressed, Victor. For the most part, no one here believes in Ukrainian fascism, just the enemy must be treacherous, mean and scary. and apart from the fascists, who have nothing to do with what the ordinary quilted jacket thinks in my head, nothing comes to mind. Although it is necessary to curse the German National Socialists, and not the Italian fascists.
      1. Curious
        Curious 4 July 2018 13: 27
        +1
        Comments reflect the results achieved so far. Running downhill is always easier than climbing it.
        1. Sharky
          Sharky 4 July 2018 20: 53
          +2
          And I have a friend from Odessa (working together, so that first-hand infa) decided to dump in the United States, along with the whole family. He says that your nationalist patriots have already dressed up and are sitting in the liver. It’s dangerous to leave the wife alone at home, and they can also rape her for speaking Russian. After 2014, he does not see any shifts in the bright future and dumps where the fifth point will be warm. And I understand him. It’s good that he also understands ...
          1. Olezhek
            Olezhek 5 July 2018 14: 43
            0
            I decided to dump in the US, along with the whole family. He says that your patriotic nationalists are wearing good clothes and are already sitting in their livers


            we must not be indignant and enjoy !!!!
            Not everyone is as lucky as him!
            To live in a free, European, democratic Ukraine!
    11. tank-master
      tank-master 4 July 2018 20: 35
      +1
      And what do you have to say against?
  5. Setavr
    Setavr 4 July 2018 08: 00
    +8
    Kharkov remembers :)
    Let me remind you, Comrades, that the Kharkovites and under the Germans were in no hurry to repair the Panzervaffe :)
    1. The leader of the Redskins
      The leader of the Redskins 4 July 2018 19: 03
      +1
      Where is it filmed? In the shops of the Malyshev factory or in the waiting room of Morozov Design Bureau? It is likely that near Rostov or in Donetsk. Did Kharkovites tank and other armored vehicles do a lot of stuffing? Leave my friend dreams of Novorosia. The Dnieper, Kharkov, Nikolaev, Odessa showed where they want to stay ...
  6. SLESAR
    SLESAR 4 July 2018 09: 52
    +3
    Quote: Serge Gorely
    Quote: Curious
    Every day there is an article on the site designed to convince that everything is very bad in Ukraine. Why do you need this? Just wondering. A huge country with unique resources and a rich history, instead of rejoicing that she has better than others, rejoices that someone is worse than hers.

    Yes, damn it, in ukrosi 2/3 of the material about the famine in Crimea and the imminent uprising in Moscow. Why do you need this?


    +++++++++++++ 100500 XNUMX
  7. Vova Kabaev
    Vova Kabaev 4 July 2018 11: 10
    0
    "After a long storage of tanks, the parameters of the gun and turret (moments of resistance) could change."
    ?!
    Some kind of surrealism!
    1. Mwg
      Mwg 4 July 2018 11: 25
      +6
      rust at joints, thickening of grease, metal fatigue, including
      1. Vova Kabaev
        Vova Kabaev 4 July 2018 12: 17
        +1
        What is the relationship between metal fatigue (strength indicators) and moment of resistance?
        Is it like a “crocodile more green than flat”?
        1. Mwg
          Mwg 4 July 2018 13: 02
          +6
          metal fatigue causes deformation in the structure
      2. tank-master
        tank-master 7 July 2018 21: 37
        0
        That's right, you answered and the sealing rubber is still very rough and sometimes even tears ..
  8. Mwg
    Mwg 4 July 2018 11: 30
    +2
    Another example of the consequences of democratization and the introduction of liberal values. Where it is intensely promoted, baking only for your personal pocket, otherwise it cannot be
  9. Bad thing
    Bad thing 4 July 2018 12: 09
    +3
    In each tank, the control unit must be adjusted to the individual characteristics of the tank. Without this, the defect cannot be eliminated, and trained specialists should deal with this. Such are available only at the factory and in repair battalions at the level, in my opinion, of the tank division. Tankers do not know how to do this and do not have the right to do such work[i] [/ i] the whole problem is between the military and the breeders, there is no individual setting of the units outside the tank at the stand, there the unit is checked for compliance with the specified characteristics, adjustments occur when the unit is installed on the tank, the order of settings and adjustments is described in IE As a rule, the ZKV company can cope with this at a time, if the adjustment does not fix the malfunction, the unit is malfunctioning and must be replaced (repaired). The same thing with the MV (AZ), but initially you need to make sure that the current sources, frequency filters and wiring are working properly.
    1. tank-master
      tank-master 4 July 2018 20: 32
      0
      This is the aerobatics of Kharkov citizens at ZTM named after Malysheva ... when the military acceptance is completed, everything works like a clock ... acts signed by the Armed Forces of Ukraine adopted ... but already in combat conditions the tanks wedge on the MZ and sensors do not work .. The control system does not allow for targeted shooting.
      Only it crawled out not in the Donbass, but in post-shootings in Germany ... although the same thing is happening with BM Bulat tanks.
      1. Bad thing
        Bad thing 5 July 2018 10: 31
        0
        And in Soviet times in Kiev (KVVTIU) they trained excellent tank engineers for the troops, as I understand it, the school is now lost.
        1. tank-master
          tank-master 5 July 2018 20: 46
          0
          It’s already been lost for a long time, there are no specialists anymore .. As the school was disbanded and transferred to Lviv ... several years ago they returned to Kharkov ... but there are no personnel who can train.
          This year, a tank school graduated 13 engineers from military engineers .. including fuel and lubricants and chemists.
  10. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 4 July 2018 13: 52
    +2
    All of this suggests that the Ukrainian tank industry has degraded so much that not only did it produce ten tanks for its own army in a quarter of a century, because these tanks were of the lowest level in quality and only disgraced the country in international competitions.

    Not certainly in that way. It is not a matter of industrial degradation - they are the very same BM "Oplot" under the Thai contract, at the very least, but they are doing it. The fact is that no one was essentially preparing for the competition, except for the crews.
    If desired, the MOU (and appropriate payment) could organize at the factory both normal repair of equipment and training of crews on simulators. In the end, it was possible to temporarily take tanks from the Thai order (the last batch was ready in March 2018) - and so already all the deadlines had been disrupted. We have in 08.08.08, according to rumors, thus MO borrowed for temporary use © moonshine PRR export order - and used them for their intended purpose.
    But MOU went the other way - cheaply and disorganized.
    In fact, when we were at the factory, they told us: "We have a Bastion in Thailand, wait."
    They didn’t want to teach us at the factory - they said that the exercises were not paid. Once admitted to the simulators.

    As a result mayo sho mayo: “Oplot” was chosen to participate in the competition, but not the one: instead of the new BM “Oplot,” they sent the T-84U “Oplot” from storage. They paid for the restoration of equipment and crew training to a minimum. The equipment, respectively, was prepared according to the residual principle (which, incidentally, is indirectly indicated by the preparation time - the last tank was already accepted at the time of departure for the competition). The crews trained as best they could. Acceptance of equipment was not organized in a normal way - the same sparkling cables and buggy sensors obviously did not spawn in Germany.
  11. Oleg78
    Oleg78 4 July 2018 15: 47
    +2
    Everything is very simple, first gun barrel! They were not released in Ukraine, and having made the modernization of the T-80, the Kharkov plant was faced with a problem. Yes, the engine was installed better, but there’s nothing to replace the gun with ... and nowhere. Taken from decommissioned tanks. BUT resource .. second. having put in a new engine, they didn’t really test .. there was no money and Kiev demanded tanks for the parade .. Here and created 10 years ago 10 pieces for how much money was enough and they weren’t released anymore .. so sometimes they drove a few pieces to the parades .. and now these same tanks were sent to biathlon .. but these are almost museum exhibits .. with big problems still not resolved .. here’s the logical result
  12. A.
    A. 4 July 2018 20: 37
    0
    Quote: MooH
    absolutely not upset.

    And me very much. Now all of NATO knows that Soviet tanks are shit, and Russian tankers are unfinished. They dishonored not ourselves, but us. No one in the world of Ukrainians does not distinguish from Russians, and their tank, externally, almost does not differ from ours. So the company to discredit Russia in Europe received a logical continuation.

    Maybe they disgraced you, but we are not.
  13. Ruslan Gainutdinov
    Ruslan Gainutdinov 5 July 2018 00: 07
    0
    The official name of the model of tanks participating in these competitions: "T84U-Oplot." Therefore, they are called strongholds. And yes, this is not BM Oplot, also known as Oplot-M.
  14. iouris
    iouris 5 July 2018 00: 17
    +1
    What is being discussed here? Hair stand on end! It is still not enough to consider the issue of providing military-technical assistance to the fraternal state.
    1. Bad thing
      Bad thing 5 July 2018 09: 55
      +1
      Quote: iouris
      What is being discussed here? Hair stand on end! It is still not enough to consider the issue of providing military-technical assistance to the fraternal state.
      As usual, experts are trying to talk about technology, but a bunch of active moron patriots from both sides are rushing in and starting a political battle.
  15. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 5 July 2018 03: 27
    0
    All of this suggests that the Ukrainian tank industry has degraded so much that not only did it produce ten tanks for its own army in a quarter of a century, because these tanks were of the lowest level in quality and only disgraced the country in international competitions.
    In addition to the quality of the tanks, it is worth noting the preparation for participation in the biathlon. Degradation also occurs at the highest level of command of the army and defense industry. The preparation of tanks and crews for biathlon could not be carried out either at the technical or organizational level. The elementary logic prompted to carry out maintenance work for a long time stored tanks, debug them, test and conduct a full cycle of crew training. None of this has been done.
    Great news! A Nazi armed only with an assault rifle is much less dangerous than the same Nazi sitting in a modern tank or combat aircraft.

    These young men were armed only with assault rifles, and if they had given them nuclear weapons, then with joyful grunting and ziggling for Bender, they would burn Russian cities and kill tens of millions of people.
  16. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 5 July 2018 11: 45
    0
    Logically and technically competently. good
  17. Olezhek
    Olezhek 5 July 2018 14: 04
    0
    At the tank factory, the necessary technologists have already been lost, there are no specialists with relevant qualifications and there is no demanding military acceptance. Parts and components of the tank are made of "improvised" metal,


    I'm so sorry for the Ukrainian tankers, so sorry ...
    I'm so upset
    I can't eat as much ...

    I hope very much that the inhabitants of Zapadanschina will like bigos / fiery hungarian goulash ...
    Eat, do not wear your hair ...
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