Military Review

Own weapons of Donbass. Two-caliber pistol "Oplot"

97
In his previous article "Donbass own weapon" I was covering an exhibition of weapons, organized during the celebration of Victory Day 9 May in Donetsk. Then, in the comments to the article, readers asked about the two-caliber pistol "Oplot"manufactured by our own military-industrial complex of the DPR.


So gun "Oplot", named so in honor of one of the units of the Armed Forces of the DPR, whose commander at one time was the head of the DPR, Alexander Zakharchenko. The gun resembles the famous Tokarev pistol in its form and looks like its upgraded version. Some experts consider it a hybrid of TT pistols and APS (Stechkin).

The pistol system is taken from Browning.

Own weapons of Donbass. Two-caliber pistol "Oplot"


The versatility of the gun is that it has a 2 removable barrel and, accordingly, the 2 magazine (so that you can use two-caliber cartridges: 7,62 × 25mm TT and 9 × 19mm Parabellum). Barrels and shops each have their own marking caliber.




Ammunition:

7,62 × 25mm TT - Soviet unitary pistol cartridge, developed on the basis of the German 7,63 × 25mm Mauser cartridge.
The initial bullet speed 420-500 m / s.
The energy of the bullet 480-700 J.

9 × 19mm PARA (Parabellum) - pistol unitary cartridge, developed by Austrian gunsmith Georg Lugger. The cartridge is also known as 9 × 19mm Luger.
The initial bullet speed 360-410 m / s.
The energy of the bullet 480-620 J.



Left cartridge 7,62 × 25mm TT, right 9 × 19mm Parabellum


Alexander Zakharchenko personally talks about this gun in the project War Gonzo on YouTube-channel. He demonstrated the Oplot pistol in action and spoke about its production in the DPR.

We learn that the 7,62 × 25mm caliber is mainly used for military units because of its higher performance. Such weapon able to pierce body armor II and III classes of hidden wear. While the caliber 9 × 19mm has a lower penetrative ability and is more suitable for use by the police. Another reason why there is a need to change the caliber of the pistol to 9 × 19mm, is that it allows the use of NATO trophy cartridges used by the APU. Given the limited number of captured small arms and the lack of capacity to manufacture their own ammunition, the production of a pistol for two cartridges looks quite logical. “Different cartridges for different tasks,” says Zakharchenko.

In the DNI there is no production of ammunition. “What kind of patron you have is what you are working for,” says a military engineer with the call sign “Tashkent” in the weapons workshop. He demonstrates the replacement of the barrel of this gun and shows us the main production cycles.







Shops to the gun "Stronghold" are 10 cartridges in one row. Someone will find this amount of ammunition inadequate. But the increase in the capacity of the store, possible due to the additional number of cartridges, will entail an increase in the thickness of the handle and make it less convenient to grip when shooting.

A pistol is a melee weapon. And, as my commander said, if you don’t get from three rounds, it’s all the same how many of them you have in the store.

TTX pistol "Stronghold":
2 stem / 2 clips.
Calibers: 7,62mm (TT) / 9mm (Parabellum).
Store capacity - 10 cartridges.
Rate of Fire - 30 shots per minute.
Aim range - 50 meters.
Initial bullet speed: for cartridge 7,62mm - 420 m / s / for cartridge 9mm - 320 m / s.
Destructive power: for the 7,62mm cartridge - 600 meters / for the 9mm cartridge - 200 meters.


“The gun is completely made on the territory of the DPR. Everything is up to any screw - up to any wires and springs here - everything here consists of our materials, our hands are made and developed by our designers and engineers ",
- The head of the DPR, Alexander Zakharchenko, said.

The remaining equipment is still the Soviet military industrial complex (turning and milling machines with CNC) successfully cope with the task, allowing you to produce up to 200 pistols per shift.



Anticipating your questions, I honestly answer that I don’t know why the gun was demonstrated at the exhibition that took place on 9 in May. 3M stronghold chambered for 9 × 18mm PM.

We can only assume that “What cartridge is there, so you work”.
Video: Gun "Oplot" production of DNR

Author:
Photos used:
WarGonzo; dnr-hotline.ru
Articles from this series:
Donbass own weapon
97 comments
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  1. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 2 July 2018 15: 45
    +4
    Actually, the information about the two-caliber pistol "Oplot" first "appeared" somewhere at least 2 years ago ... and then the info went: a) .7,62 x 25 mm TT; b) 9 x 18 mm PM .... hi
    1. V. Salama
      V. Salama 2 July 2018 16: 05
      +1
      9x18 PM is unlikely to work with an interlocked shutter, they differ in power too.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 2 July 2018 16: 28
        +1
        In that infe, somewhere 2 years ago (no less ...), not only the barrels changed ... but also the springs, in my opinion ... In the 2014, the Oplot submachine gun came under the cartridge : 9 x 18 mm ....
        1. V. Salama
          V. Salama 2 July 2018 20: 45
          +3
          I do not argue about information stuffing. Even the article claims that at the "May 9 exhibition, the Oplot 3M pistol was demonstrated under the 9x18 mm PM cartridge." I want to draw attention to the fact that this should be a different gun in design, and not the one whose diagram is shown above. In Germany there were pistols chambered for 9x19 with a free bolt and we have chambered for 7,62x25. Yes, here you can change the barrel and spring and - use the 9x18mm PM cartridge. But that gun, the circuit of which is shown in the figure, has an interlocked shutter according to the locking scheme as in a TT. Such a pistol, if we talk about interchangeable barrels, can use only 9x19 and 7,62x25 of those listed, but not 9x18 PM. Automation in the TT circuit will not work with the last cartridge, only with jerking the shutter manually, and changing the spring will not help here. I would also suggest that such a feint could slip through with Yarygin’s pistol - the hitch is too tight there and works softly, IMHO.
          1. Separ DNR
            Separ DNR 2 July 2018 21: 18
            +3
            "Donbass own weapon"

            Are you up to the guns now? During the total lack of ammunition on the "front", "gentlemen officers" make toys ...
            In general, what difference does it make to drunk on banks or who turned up "not there and at the wrong time" subordinates?
            PM, they are no longer satisfied ...
            Bastard ...

            At least someone thought: Is the DNR industry involved? ...
            1. 2329 Carpenter
              2329 Carpenter 2 July 2018 22: 21
              +4
              "Two in one" inspires little confidence. And the meaning of this gadget is really incomprehensible. Are officers in the war fighting with guns?
              Or did Zakharchenko and Co. have already grown in one place in one place?
              1. Separ DNR
                Separ DNR 2 July 2018 22: 26
                +3
                Quote: Carpenter 2329
                Or did Zakharchenko and Co. have already grown in one place in one place?

                Long Yes Looking at an example from the Center.
            2. Vladimir DNR
              Vladimir DNR 2 July 2018 23: 49
              +3
              Yes!!!! And where did the shortage of ammunition come from ??? It has long been back from the front end ???
            3. vkfriendly
              vkfriendly 3 July 2018 09: 16
              0
              The main thing that does not matter what. Once upon a time, little Israel invented its weapons from despair, and then conquered the world arms market.
          2. gross kaput
            gross kaput 2 July 2018 22: 45
            +3
            Why write nonsense - it will be bad on a free shutter under 9X19 and 7,62X25, on the contrary, there are no problems - 9X18 will work normally at a short speed and even with a long stroke there will be an excess of energy. In general, pistols for low-power cartridges are made on a free shutter for only one banal reason - this principle is simpler and cheaper - why be wise with an interlocked shutter if it works normally with a free shutter.
            But it happens that for unification with adult models they do with interlocked shutters and options for weak cartridges - as an example, Glock 42 and Colt Mustang under .380 (9Х17)
            1. V. Salama
              V. Salama 3 July 2018 10: 11
              +1
              As the classics said, "practice is the criterion of truth." The Hungarian "Tokagipt" with a barrel chambered for 9x19 with a 9x18PM cartridge does not work, even though the latter has a larger caliber of min. by 0,2 mm, but even such a jump in pressure (a consequence of a non-caliber bullet) did not ensure the operation of the automation. And this pistol has a one-to-one Tokarev design. In your upper picture, the trunk is attached without an earring, like Yarygin and the clove on the trunk is one and not high. At the bottom (Glock), the barrel is locked by clutching the influx on the barrel beyond the edge of the shutter-casing in the ejection window of the sleeve (like Yarygin) and the barrel goes down the breech with less friction, not like the TT. We are discussing the design of the TT. And by the way, the .380 is far from 9mm.
              1. timeout
                timeout 4 July 2018 05: 45
                +1
                Quote: V. Salama
                Hungarian "Tokajipt" with a barrel chambered for 9x19 with a cartridge 9x18PM

                Dear, how did you manage to push the PM sleeve into the chamber?
                Quote: V. Salama
                And by the way, the .380 is far from 9mm.

                Yeah, and as much as 9,02 mm.
                1. V. Salama
                  V. Salama 4 July 2018 09: 00
                  0
                  I don’t do such things in order to manage, the answer was obvious for me, but it was done like this: we drilled a chamber under the insert-chamber under 9x18PM and all things.
                  In fact, formally .380 is 9,652 mm. I was bewildered by the gross kaput, giving Colt Muctang XSP a pistol with an engaged bolt. Many sources indicate that there is a free shutter. Well, as for the .380 auto cartridge, in our 9x17K, in the west with the designation of this caliber mess - more than 15 designations. And to be exact, then .380 (referring to 9x17) we should have 9,2 mm, and in the west it should be exactly 9 mm., So I think. As for the essence of the controversy, here you have to pay for everything, here we have 9x18PMM, the usual PM destroys it, because it is 30% more powerful, and the Glock 42 shown in the bottom figure (see above), having an interlocked shutter and a weak cartridge, also has from 50 to 80% of non-stops for the shutter lag, despite the debugged scheme and high-tech production. According to user reviews: https://ru-guns.livejournal.com/1852456.html
                  1. timeout
                    timeout 4 July 2018 13: 11
                    +2
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    drilled a chamber under the insert-chamber under 9x18PM

                    An interesting masturbation ... Push a bullet covered with PM (actual diameter 9,2) through a barrel of 9,0 (8,8 along the rifling fields), while drilling a chamber and inserting into it ... What does this mean that Comrade "V. Salama" does not even suspect a method of measuring the caliber of weapons in Russia and in the rest of the world.
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    In fact, formally .380 is 9,652 mm.

                    This is for you to prepare:
                    This is 0.380

                    This is PM

                    9 Pairs

                    Quote: V. Salama
                    I was bewildered by the gross kaput, giving Colt Muctang XSP a pistol with an engaged bolt. Many sources indicate that there is a free shutter.

                    Dear, Colt website visit in any way?
                    https://www.colt.com/series/MUSTANG_SERIES
                    So far, the series has classic Mustangs.
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    from 50 to 80% of non-stops for the shutter lag,

                    Does it have to do with it? Glocks of conventional calibers suffer from this.
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    9x18PMM conventional PM destroys

                    This cartridge in the afternoon with fire you will not find. So, "dear", in the question of shooting your knowledge is below zero.
                    1. V. Salama
                      V. Salama 4 July 2018 19: 18
                      0
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Push the coated PM bullet (actual diameter 9,2) through the barrel 9,0 (8,8 along the rifling fields), while drilling a chamber and making an insert into it ...

                      It is necessary to read carefully, this is exactly what I wrote. And I explain further - the barrel was not inflated, it did not tear apart - the thickness of the lead shirt between the bullet and the core was enough to push the bullet through without any problems.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      What does this mean, that the comrade "V. Salama" does not even suspect about the method of measuring the caliber of weapons in Russia and in the rest of the world.

                      laughing And why is it suddenly such a conclusion? You have some kind of strange logic. It seems that you yourself just read it somewhere, and still have not had time to learn. So excitedly and sculpt without really understanding, I’m telling you as a teacher with great experience.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      This is for you to prepare:
                      Does the word "formally" tell you anything? You all want something to prove to me with this type of cartridge .380 auto, I just don’t understand? I already explained everything or what stuck you on?
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Dear, Colt website visit in any way?

                      You visit them, but I don’t need it, I have enough old baggage so far, especially since I don’t work with Colt, and we have only one.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Does it have to do with it? Glocks of conventional calibers suffer from this.

                      And what? With that I wrote. Glock regular calibers suffer with 50% frequency? It seemed to you. This usually happens with women.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      This cartridge in the afternoon with fire you will not find. So, "dear", in the question of shooting your knowledge is below zero.
                      And it’s good that you won’t find it. Regarding the knowledge of the “shooter”, you did not impress me, especially in the way of thinking. It seems that you have some kind of complex not overcome. And knowledge is already a skill, since skillful actions differ from unskilled ones in their expediency. Skills, in short, are skills that are performed with a given accuracy and speed. And "practice is the criterion of truth," if you remember from yesterday's post. So for now, it’s not for you to judge knowledge, and not only mine, but in general. And I advise you to overcome the complex - it’s straight from you, I don’t know where, but if you run into a psychological assessment in some situations - you will regret it, I think.
                      1. timeout
                        timeout 5 July 2018 05: 31
                        0
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        the thickness of the lead shirt between the bullet and the core was enough to push through the bullet without any problems.

                        Dear, have I questioned your experience? No, just called masturbation.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        So excitedly and sculpt without really understanding, I’m telling you as a teacher with great experience.

                        For your information, very comprehended. A good question, but to hell with spoiling a normal barrel, knowing about the mismatch of calibers? An engineer would simply not do this, he simply calculated it. Since you make yourself a programmer (but a bad PC user), an officer or warrant officer who in the 90s complained about jeepers, a teacher who is already over 60., etc., etc.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        Glock regular calibers suffer with 50% frequency?

                        Dear, after all, 50% of non-productions or 50% of shots? From the answer to your question
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        50 to 80% shutter lag delays
                        And there may be 5 per 1000 shots. So they themselves fell into their own trap.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        I have enough old baggage for now

                        What is it from? From a programmer or a soldier? Or maybe from a teacher? Or a practicing shooter? Especially when Colt is alone at all ... So fuck about claiming XSC
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        And knowledge is already skills

                        Will we go into philosophy? Well then, your knowledge is theoretical, but most likely implicit.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        Skills, in short, are skills that are performed with a given accuracy and speed.

                        We continue to philosophize ... Again, a teacher’s mistake with experience, these skills are determined by skills and knowledge. But not the other way around.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        "practice is the criterion of truth"

                        Enough to quote Marx, the deadlines have passed.
                    2. V. Salama
                      V. Salama 5 July 2018 14: 54
                      0
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Dear, have I questioned your experience?
                      What do you mean? Read carefully. This is not my personal experience, I knew about this experiment and I immediately suggested that it would not work.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      A good question, but to hell with spoiling a normal barrel, knowing about the mismatch of calibers? It was back in the mid-90s, the barrel had to be destroyed, well, one troubled soul decided to experiment. And what is there to calculate for an engineer - the magnitude of the momentum after leaving the barrel of a barrel? winked For a number of reasons, this calculation will be extremely rough. Yes, I was engaged in programming, and my speed programs were better than regular ones. I am not really a PC user, I don’t need it now. When I was engaged in programming such a computer, "Electronics - TK - 29K," I use Windows XP in my teaching work - it is quite satisfactory. I don’t know how jeepers are fastened here, well, here you yourself deal with your cockroaches. wassat

                      Quote: Timeout
                      Dear, after all, 50% of non-productions or 50% of shots?
                      Have you forgotten what this is about? It was a question of the frequency (see Probability Theory and Mathematical Statistics) of an adverse event with a certain number of tests (shots). I gave you a link with user reviews, it shows: 100 shots - 50%, 200 shots - 80%. I see here talking to a connoisseur.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      And there may be 5 per 1000 shots. So they themselves fell into their own trap.
                      I don’t know what you have there ... but you yourself got it - with your finger in the sky, I said this very softly.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      What is it from? From a programmer or a soldier? Or maybe from a teacher? Or a practicing shooter? Especially when Colt is alone at all ... So fuck about claiming XSC
                      And what I said about XSC incorrectly. I affirm that the Koltov system with an interlocked shutter on a weak cartridge will not work, at least steadily reliable in all modes and operating conditions. Here, the type of cartridge should be indicated exactly and not to be confused with the designation of the cartridge with a caliber. For example, you confuse. It’s good that the drawings did not appear, otherwise I would have laughed at the .380. That's all. And Colt is on my drum, you are confusing everything here again, like an ardent apologist for militant illiteracy - information and knowledge are not the same thing. It’s a mess, of course, but let me remind you of one of the main principles of training - the content of the training should correspond to the goals of the upcoming activity. And I work with other types and types of weapons, but I have enough basic knowledge to understand what kind of specialist you are in the "shooting". What is the term small-town such, are you talking about sniping or practical shooting? As I understand it, we touched on issues of technical training in small arms business and nothing more. So your "shooter" is resting here, and here you are trying to place zeros.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Will we go into philosophy? Well then, your knowledge is theoretical, but most likely implicit.
                      Philosophy is an integrating science. And I have to put my theoretical knowledge into practice, my work now is such, excuse me.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Again, an experienced teacher has a mistake; these skills are determined by skills and knowledge. But not the other way around.
                      How embarrassing it is already. Write down at least something. Pedagogy distinguishes the following chain of assimilation (development) of educational material: perceived - understood - remembered - applied. The first three elements, if any, mean that you "know." There are five levels of perception and understanding (here, by the way, you have problems). If all four elements take place, then you "know how." At the same time, skills are distinguished between productive (ability to act in a standard situation) and reproductive (ability to find solutions in a non-standard situation). It uses its own teaching methods. But in any case, mastering a practical action requires three mandatory steps: familiarization, learning and improvement. This is the third stage and involves the transformation of skills into skills, and not vice versa.
                      Quote: Timeout
                      Enough to quote Marx, the deadlines have passed.
                      Do you doubt the relevance. I feel sorry for you. Nobody has denied this relevance yet. Apparently there are things that are always relevant.
                      Yes, I want to say that I’ll fall out of the Internet for a couple of weeks due to circumstances. So, if you write something, I will not answer soon.
                      1. timeout
                        timeout 5 July 2018 17: 43
                        0
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        This is not my personal experience,

                        So do not write in the first person.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        I affirm that the Koltov system with an interlocked shutter on a weak cartridge will not work, at least steadily reliable in all modes and operating conditions.

                        Affirm anything, but practice shows a completely different thing. And your practice is not perfect.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        information and knowledge are not the same thing.

                        Of course, you have enough information, but practical knowledge is not absolute. Well, hereinafter, you have the usual abstracts and cliches. Borrowed quotes and information from teaching materials.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        Yes, I want to say that I’ll be dropped from the Internet for a couple of weeks

                        Well, we will not know about 324 scientifically based definitions of management, we will survive. A lengthy texts and comments without you enough.
                      2. gross kaput
                        gross kaput 10 July 2018 09: 04
                        -1
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        I affirm that the Koltov system with an interlocked shutter on a weak cartridge will not work, at least steadily reliable in all modes and operating conditions.

                        Yes lano ?! Will it be right? At least for the beginning you would have learned a little, otherwise you would confuse the cause with the consequence - what is the use of automatic equipment with an interlocked shutter and short stroke?
                        The fact is that the extraction of the sleeve should occur only after the pressure in the barrel drops, otherwise there will be bloating and tearing of the sleeves, when using a free shutter on powerful cartridges, a large mass of the shutter is required for time delay, and to absorb the energy of such a massive shutter, a hard return and / or damper is required otherwise the gun either quickly gets a kayuk or you have to make it very large with a large shutter speed -
                        but there is a second way - to extend the unlocking time, forcing the barrel and the shutter to move together for some time, in this case the unlocking occurs even at low pressure —Do you understand me?
                        There is a system error in all your fabrications - you confuse the cause with the investigation due to the lack of basic knowledge of the subject, so it’s too early for you to climb into such jungle, first you need to learn the basics and principles of functioning.
                      3. V. Salama
                        V. Salama 17 July 2018 16: 42
                        0
                        Yes, they wrote it.
                        Quote: Timeout
                        So do not write in the first person.
                        Where did I write it in the first person? Not only that, I tried to clarify: "I do not do such things in order to manage, I had an obvious answer, ..." - I wrote this to whom?
                        Quote: Timeout
                        Affirm anything, but practice shows a completely different thing.
                        And what else does your practice show? the only Glock 42 pistol with an engaged bolt and the one working is extremely unreliable (see user reviews - I gave a link). In addition, this scheme of locking the barrel (the influx of the barrel beyond the edge of the ejector window) very easily disengages and, when worn, and, naturally, and with special refinement, can provide work on the cartridge .380 auto. I assumed this even higher, taking into account the experience of operating the Yarygin pistol.
                        Quote: Timeout
                        Of course, you have enough information, but practical knowledge is not absolute. Well, hereinafter, you have the usual abstracts and cliches. Borrowed quotes and information from teaching materials.
                        Very strange conclusions, I refer to the facts and try to draw conclusions based on the comprehension of these facts. And if in confirmation I quote from "teaching materials", then I think it should be so, it is always better than your type - d ... k.
                        Quote: Timeout
                        A lengthy texts and comments without you enough.
                        What is the scope? The idea is very clear: - The locking scheme according to the Colt system (TT) on a weak cartridge of the .380 auto type will not work automatically. And if someone claims the opposite, then something is wrong here, either with a gun or with a cartridge. That's all! And you did not raise any objections.
                  2. gross kaput
                    gross kaput 9 July 2018 22: 09
                    -1
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    I was bewildered by the gross kaput, passing Colt Muctang XSP for a pistol with a shutter

                    Gee, you can’t even determine the principle of locking by the photograph of the disassembled sample? So you first need to start school and then write here, at least take a look at the disassembly video https://youtu.be/wP-WXbbyiQY
                    1. V. Salama
                      V. Salama 17 July 2018 17: 38
                      0
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      There is a system error in all your fabrications - you confuse the cause with the investigation due to the lack of basic knowledge of the subject, so it’s too early for you to climb into such jungle, first you need to learn the basics and principles of functioning.
                      This is what you would have to tell yourself in the mirror, what is this for me? What is this here for? What do you want to prove or disprove here? Moreover, this is a common truth. But if you really want to understand this process, then you need to start with the law of conservation of momentum - have you heard of this? Then you will understand everything correctly and start with "A", and not with "B".
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Gee, you can’t even determine the principle of locking by the photograph of the disassembled sample? So you first need to start school and then write here, at least take a look at the disassembly video https://youtu.be/wP-WXbbyiQY
                      In the first photograph, the answer is not obvious - it is possible to carry out adhesion with influxes that do not rise above the trunk line, as in the figure. And I still had the imprudence to believe you that the pistol has an engaged bolt. That's all. I don’t need to roam around Amer’s sites - I’m not interested in the pistols of our IL (MR) class - 71. Well, that’s really so.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Fantasy, fantasy ...
                      But what about the store?
                      Are you completely frostbitten. There, even on the shutter housing, it is stamped that the two-caliber pistol: chambered for 7,62X25 and 9X19. Two trunks are included, the TTshny magazine without problems both cartridges, as in a hole. This damn everyone knows, except you, literate. There are no problems with the ejector or the shutter lag. Have you ever held the TT in your hands? So put in the Luger cartridge there - you will see everything at once.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Here, here's the thing: the 9X18 PM cartridge doesn’t climb into the 9X19 chamber, or rather reaches the half of the chamber and the mustache, and if you drive it with a bolt it will be corny wedge - and this is verified in practice - you had to remove the hammered PM cartridge from the HighPower chamber so keep your thoughts to yourself
                      This is what you are doing now, who is the PM-vsky cartridge in the chamber under 9X19 thrusts? I generally thought that he would not even enter there halfway, well, of course, the bullet will enter, for me this is a revelation.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Earring, earring ... and sho barrel locked earring? - we look at the HePe scheme - tama John Mozesovich used a curved neckline of the tide instead of the earring - but until now it has never occurred to you to consider that at HePe the automation works differently on the Colt 1911.
                      The barrel is not locked with an earring, what kind of crap? But, you calculate the coefficients of friction during the disengagement of the shutter and these will be slightly different values! What is it me? You are gobbled practitioners - put the ramrod in the barrel of one and the other pistols and try to open the shutter - feel the difference. Although the experience is unlikely to be correct. In short, it was about the DNR-ovsky pistol and TT system, so do not skip the topic. By the way, now Colts 1911 have not been produced with an earring for a long time. At least I did not come across.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Shozh with regards to earrings, then learn the materiel - here is Astra - a Spanish clone of the subcompact 1911 under .380 - and about a miracle, he has an earring

                      Why am I to learn something here? There she is. The Spaniards have accumulated a lot of things, there are a lot of other things. What did you want to prove or disprove with this? Share information? So too banal and primitive. What is the highlight?
                  3. gross kaput
                    gross kaput 10 July 2018 08: 45
                    -1
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    I don’t do such things in order to manage, the answer was obvious for me, but it was done like this: we drilled a chamber under the insert-chamber under 9x18PM and all things.

                    Fantasy, fantasy ...
                    But what about the store? laughing Or do your knowledge end where Wikipedia articles end?
                    What is controlled feed know? And what happens when it is absent?
                    In general, for normal operation with 9X18, one chamber bore is not enough, at least a new store is required, as well as a maximum alteration of the slide delay and the ejector.
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    having an interlocked shutter and a weak cartridge, it also has from 50 to 80% of non-stops for the shutter lag, despite the well-established scheme and high-tech production

                    Forgot to mention only - as it gets dirty i.e. after 100-200 shots and at the same time out of the box i.e. still with ground parts wink
              2. gross kaput
                gross kaput 9 July 2018 21: 54
                -1
                Quote: V. Salama
                As the classics said, "practice is the criterion of truth."

                Exactly so - only with practice do you have byala from the word at all laughing
                Here, here's the thing: the 9X18 PM cartridge doesn’t climb into the 9X19 chamber, or rather reaches the half of the chamber and the mustache, and if you drive it with a bolt it will be corny wedge - and this is verified in practice - you had to remove the hammered PM cartridge from the HighPower chamber so keep your thoughts to yourself wink
                Quote: V. Salama
                In your upper picture, the trunk is attached without an earring, like Yarygin and the clove on the trunk is one and not high.

                Earring, earring ... and sho barrel locked earring? - we look at the HePe scheme - Tama John Mosesovich used a curved neckline of the tide instead of the earring - but so far it has never occurred to you to consider that at HePe the automation works differently on the Colt 1911. In general, it is somehow accepted that The browning scheme includes the reduction of the breech when the trunk and the shutter are disengaged. Here is how this reduction occurs - due to an earring or tide, or how locking occurs - using the extraction window or overhangs, this is the tenth and purely technological simplification.
                Shozh with regards to earrings, then learn the materiel - here is Astra - a Spanish clone of the subcompact 1911 under .380 - and about a miracle, he has an earring laughing

                1. V. Salama
                  V. Salama 19 July 2018 19: 06
                  0
                  There is an earring, but the shutter ... laughing - linked? I don’t see in the photo, but you see? Who here does not know how to determine from the drawings?
                  1. gross kaput
                    gross kaput 20 July 2018 20: 29
                    -1
                    Quote: V. Salama
                    I don’t see in the photo, but you see?

                    Are you fooling around or really a complete zero? Have you heard about the clutch for the extraction window? Do you even have any idea how the Browning scheme works?
                    Again, another student will have to explain on the fingers sad
                    Well, let’s get started - let's take a look at the example of a TT pistol

                    in the forward position, the barrel is rigidly engaged with the bolt by means of two protrusions on the barrel and the front protrusion of the barrel thickening in the chamber area - yes, unlike the common misconception, the TT has THREE locking points (like M1911)
                    During the shot, the first few mm shutter drags, at three points, the barrel with itself backward, during which time the bullet leaves the bore.

                    Further, the earring is rotated at an angle sufficient so that the breech of the barrel drops down and disengages from the bolt, while the breech of the barrel moves down and back and rests on the frame.
                    the shutter moving back ejects the sleeve cocking and starts rolling

                    And here the most interesting and incomprehensible begins for picking up the tops on Wikipedia laughing - we take the TT, we take the bolt back and put it on hold, now we take the muzzle of the barrel and try to pull it to the front position - wah! does not give in! what's the matter? and the fact is that in this case, the protrusions of the barrel and the chamber abut against the "ceiling" of the shutter housing, the earring cannot be turned and the barrel is in the most convenient position for loading - i.e. the entrance to the chamber is located as close to the store as possible and at an angle as convenient as possible for the transition of the next cartridge from the store to the chamber. The main tsimes of the browning system with a reduction in the barrel is just the same as the most facilitated process of feeding into the chamber, which ensures high reliability of the weapon since the most intense segment of the automation cycle is facilitated.
                    And what will happen if you remove the tabs on the shutter and leave the earring? You can ask the guys from the hammer about this - they will tell you why they had to make a fixed barrel on the “leader” - the trouble is that if you cut off the locking protrusions in this system, the normal relationship of the parts is violated and the barrel does not stand rigidly at the loading angle and each time It is in an arbitrary position, which makes it impossible to calculate the feed path itself, therefore, as a result, the leader had to make a rigidly fixed new barrel - even if the feed turned out to be extremely unreliable, not controlled with constant poking, but it somehow allows you to work with your own earring and no protrusions it doesn't work at all laughing .
                    In general, before trying to climb into such a jungle a little the construction of iron and the basic principles, learn - maybe then you will not be stupid to write and realize that having an earring automatically means having a short stroke - it doesn’t work otherwise. laughing
                    1. V. Salama
                      V. Salama 21 July 2018 13: 06
                      -1
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Are you fooling around or really a complete zero? Have you heard about the clutch for the extraction window? Do you even have any idea how the Browning scheme works?
                      Again, the next student will have to explain on the fingers .... And here the most interesting and incomprehensible thing for the picking up tops on Wikipedia begins

                      You fool around here or grabbed the heights on Wikipedia yourself, hence the urge to pour platitudes and common truths, not understanding the essence of the process, mislead the community. First example:
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      During the shot, the first few mm shutter drags, at three points, the barrel with itself backward, during which time the bullet leaves the bore.

                      The whole point of the operation of the interlocked shutter is that until the bullet cuts through the barrel, nothing works there at all. And only when the bullet leaves the barrel, the recoil momentum is transmitted to the “bolt group”, which, depending on its design, perceives it differently. It will depend on its mass, friction forces. the stiffness of the return and war springs, which in turn for the Koltovo (TT-shnoy) system will be determined by the height of the influx crest, the configuration of the grooves engaged, the design of the earring used by the metal and much more than others, which can not be predicted by calculations, and maybe It is determined only on practical shooting during the debugging of the circuit. Here you can make a weak cartridge work, making design changes. Like for example on the Mustangs Mk-I and Mk-II, but, I’m sorry, this is no longer the classic Colt, but even more so the TT (Tokajipt) that was discussed. Yes, everything is similar here, but not the same thing, we have trolls playing on it, that Colt is TT, and Walter PP is PM.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      Well, let’s get started - let's take a look at the example of a TT pistol

                      Why are you doing falsification here? In your previous picture: - "here is Astra - a Spanish clone of the subcompact 1911 under .380 ..." shows a gun with a free, possibly with a half-free shutter (like PMM or Margollin), but not with a linked one.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      - yes, unlike the widespread misunderstanding of the “know-it-alls”, the TT has THREE locking points (like M1911)
                      But this is the second example of falsification - neither the classic Colt nor the TT have locking by clutching the extraction window.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      ... and the fact is that in this case, the protrusions of the barrel and the chamber abut against the “ceiling” of the shutter housing, the earring cannot turn and the barrel is in the position that is most convenient for loading - i.e. the entrance to the chamber is located as close to the store as possible and at an angle as convenient as possible for the transition of the next cartridge from the store to the chamber.

                      Where have you read such a crap, probably in the comments of some sort of "literacy" on the left forum? And what will happen to the barrel when the shutter goes forward, but why in the TT in front of the chamber "slide"? What the hell is that?
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      And what will happen if you remove the tabs on the shutter and leave the earring? You can ask the guys from the hammer about this - they will tell you why they had to make a fixed barrel on the “leader” - the trouble is that if you cut off the locking protrusions in this system, the normal relationship of the parts is violated and the barrel does not stand rigidly at the loading angle and each time is in arbitrary position

                      But this is obvious, but an explanation for suckers. Immediately, the gun was redone under a completely new cartridge and made as cheaper. There is still a false trunk - we would like to leave the earring - would have made a cylindrical influx of the appropriate diameter, and that's all.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      - let the feed turn out to be extremely unreliable, not controlled with constant poking, but it somehow allows you to work ...
                      I’ll tell you a secret, the unreliable supply of a cartridge to the chamber of the Leader is determined by the steep rolling angle of the traumatic cartridge, which TechCrim has become even larger in the last two years. All this can be eliminated by aligning the angle of the lower influx on the chamber with the angle of the "hill" and will work like a clock. So do not attract what is not attracted.
                      Quote: gross kaput
                      ... learn the basic principles - maybe then you will not write nonsense and realize that the presence of an earring automatically means having a short stroke - otherwise it does not work.
                      You laugh, look at your penultimate drawing. The earring, including the non-swinging (fixed) one, may well be present on the free shutter to ensure the convenience of incomplete disassembly of the gun if you want to keep the design and ergonomics of the base model.
                      And if there is essentially a dispute, then in Russia it is not legal for hunters and sportsmen to rifle ammunition for ammunition, but if you have friends outside it, then it’s very simple to check - take a “hammer” to dispose of misfire ammunition, discharge 9X19 Para and .380 Auto, and pour the last gunpowder into the sleeve of the first, and also, for the correctness of the tests, insert the Browning bullet (it is easier) using a clamp, for example. And check for yourself which of the army pistols will reliably extract the sleeve, why try to banalities. If there are even minor problems with the extraction of the 9X19 conical sleeve, then on the cylindrical sleeve (with the corresponding chamber), they will definitely be aggravated. That's all.
                      1. gross kaput
                        gross kaput 21 July 2018 18: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        The whole point of the operation of the interlocked shutter is that until the bullet cuts through the barrel, nothing works there at all. And only when the bullet leaves the barrel, the recoil momentum is transmitted to the "bolt group",

                        Physics skipped school? Or didn’t you have it yet? The law of conservation of momentum? Not? Did not hear? - sadness laughing
                        For those who did not have physics at school, I explain from the moment the bullet in the sleeve was strained that exact same impulse is transmitted to the bottom of the sleeve and to the shutter and shutter begins to move backward - but the shutter speed is so many times less than the bullet’s speed, how much is its mass, the mass of the barrel linked to it and the rigidity of the return - do not believe me, believe the physics textbook for the 7th grade laughing
                        http://know.alnam.ru/book_k_phis.php?id=30
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        the influx crest, the configuration of the grooves included in the engagement, the design of the earring used by the metal and much more than others, which cannot be predicted by calculations,

                        You're just ridiculous - for this there are a large number of textbooks where all this is described, including friction in the locking nodes - in the variant of the Browning scheme, the friction in the locking node is vanishingly small with respect to the shutter energy, so there is no need to try to write pseudo-smart things - here they are neither to the village nor to the city.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        But this is the second example of falsification - neither the classic Colt nor the TT have locking by clutching the extraction window.

                        No, this is an example of someone trying to talk about those things that he never held in his hands and will figure out how it works and could not.
                        photo of the training split TT - the third dot is circled in green
                        TT shutter inside view, look at the extraction window and turn off the brain
                      2. gross kaput
                        gross kaput 21 July 2018 19: 10
                        0
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        But this is obvious, but an explanation for suckers. Immediately, the gun was redone under a completely new cartridge and made as cheaper. There is still a false trunk - we would like to leave the earring - would have made a cylindrical influx of the appropriate diameter, and that's all.

                        Again, with a finger to the sky - the fact is that according to our laws and regulations it was required to ensure that the main parts are not interchangeable - the simplest option was to drill the barrel under a traumatic cartridge and cut the stops on the bolt, but they did just that
                        A question on this topic was asked to the representative of the Hammer at the exhibition where the Leader was demonstrated - he honestly said that at first they thought to do just that - but it turned out that without a barrel-bolt connection the mechanics did not work - the problem was in feeding the cartridge because the chamber's uniform position was not made clear so I had to be wise with fixed barrel.
                        The ARMZ hammer in the cooled version of the TT went the other way - the hooks from the bolt and barrel were removed but the earring was left, and in order for the mechanics to work, they introduced an additional barrel spring that rests on the bolt clutch at one end and pushes the barrel back and the bolt opens when the bolt is opened bringing him down to the loading position.
                        Quote: V. Salama
                        And check for yourself which of the army pistols will reliably extract the sleeve, why try to banalities.

                        Do you write garbage again? all this is decided by the selection of returns and by no means refers to the principle of operation.
                      3. V. Salama
                        V. Salama 22 July 2018 15: 24
                        0
                        Quote: gross kaput
                        Physics skipped school? Or didn’t you have it yet? The law of conservation of momentum?
                        Well, you’re just like Timeout, he, too, without knowledge, did not understand the information that was brought to him and only then, quickly reading something somewhere, he began with a smart look to prove what he was already paying attention to. So you - only now have you learned about this law or what? I have already pointed it out to you - look at my post to you from July 17 at 17:38. Of course, I understand that this is trolling, and technical support is present here (hello to Igor and his underground reincarnation), but it needs to be done more interestingly somehow.
                        Quote: gross kaput
                        ... I explain from the moment the bullet in the case is strained that exact same impulse is transmitted to the bottom of the sleeve and to the shutter and shutter begins to move backward - but the speed of the shutter is many times less than the speed of the bullet, how much is its mass, ....
                        Well. in addition to knowledge of the school course, one must also have a head. Again, pour in the platitudes and fabrications that you make on their basis. All this is true for a free shutter, but on an articulated system the system is “closed”, since a bullet presses the barrel in the direction of its movement when moving along the barrel, which does not allow the shutter to move until it passes through the barrel muzzle. And there the impulse should already be taken into account taking into account the mass of the entire “gate group”, and the reaction to the impulse should be determined taking into account ..., well, I already wrote about this.
                        Quote: gross kaput
                        You're just ridiculous - for this there are a large number of textbooks where all this is described, including friction in the locking nodes ...
                        Yes, yes, laughing together - "friction in the locking nodes." What textbooks are we talking about? I already hinted that in the pistols. created on the basis of one design, a lot of different things, especially “friction”.
                        Quote: gross kaput
                        ... in the variant of the Browning scheme, the friction in the locking unit is vanishingly small with respect to the shutter energy, so there is no need to try ...
                        First learn how to correlate friction with energy, why did Tokagipt fail to work on the PM cartridge? Want to say that I was misled? Well, you with your "textbook" know better ..
                        Quote: gross kaput
                        the third dot is circled in green
                        TT shutter inside view, look at the extraction window and turn off the brain
                        I have extensive experience working with imbeciles, for about 9 years, but this is the worst case. Firstly, there is nothing circled in green. Secondly, if you want to show the clutch location of the barrel beyond the edge of the sleeve extraction window, you must also show the barrel, and it is advisable to turn the shutter upside down. But you can not bother - you will not show me anything new. And here you are funny, in your attempts to prove the unprovable, turn around like in a frying pan.
                        Quote: gross kaput
                        A question on this topic was asked to the representative of the Hammer at the exhibition where the Leader was demonstrated - he honestly said that at first they thought to do just that - ...
                        Well, what else can another manufacturer say to a consumer who is eager to see all the elements of a combat TT, but does not understand how everything works here. I already wrote to you about this, that an answer was received for a foolish question for suckers. Why look for difficulties, weapons, and so has a heavy price. By the way, in the pneumatic TT they were able to provide "barrel connection with the shutter" to ensure accuracy of fire, and the movable earring was useless there - they made it stationary. Well, the rest is blah blah about anything, or write more specifically, what do you have about the idea of ​​reality? There will be time - I will answer.
          3. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 3 July 2018 03: 43
            +2
            Thank you for your reply ... I cough up your comments at your leisure ... hi
  2. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 2 July 2018 15: 46
    +1
    And this, indeed, is the weapon that the DNR now needs? Or is everything wrong with Voentorg?
    1. Black sniper
      Black sniper 2 July 2018 16: 14
      +2
      At VO, a lot of equipment and "riflemen" discussed the production of LDNR, MLRS, amphibious tank, machine gun and large-sized rifle and so on and so forth !!! Now here is a gun that any military needs.
    2. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 2 July 2018 21: 22
      +3
      Quote: Leader of the Redskins
      And this, indeed, is the weapon that the DNR now needs? Or is everything wrong with Voentorg?

      It was nice. In warehouses was EVERYTHING. But it does not reach divisions.
      Perhaps it is sold out and stolen, or “sticks” so that during the Minsk provocations dill is not cut into them ...
      1. vkfriendly
        vkfriendly 3 July 2018 09: 29
        0
        Something you somehow very much worry for dill and the DPR authorities have thieves and weapons do not have to do your own, a mishandled Cossack or something not shared?
        1. Separ DNR
          Separ DNR 3 July 2018 20: 01
          +1
          Quote: vkfriendly
          a mishandled Cossack or something not shared?

          fool
  3. alauda1038
    alauda1038 2 July 2018 15: 50
    +1
    And the Sumerians heroically blur out the wunderwafers
    1. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 2 July 2018 21: 31
      +4
      Quote: alauda1038
      And the Sumerians heroically blur out the wunderwafers

      So that you know, a "mosinka" in a sniper performance will give odds SVD and not only her ...
      And by the way, not only in dill, they upgrade the Mosin rifle ...

      1. tracer
        tracer 2 July 2018 23: 08
        +1
        The above photo rework mosinki works well. But with a complete alteration (personally observed) from her "native" only the bolt group winds up. And the amount of alteration rolls over for one and a half "mowing". Picatinny slats are set at a slight angle. Minus Mosin trunks in the subtleties and instability of the battle when the barrel is heated. Conclusion .. Slightly better than SVD if the barrel is a sniper mosin ..
  4. Mik13
    Mik13 2 July 2018 15: 52
    +7
    ... says a military engineer with the call sign "Tashkent" in the workshop for the production of weapons.

    Tashkent (aka Timofeev A. Yu.) Is not a military engineer, but the Minister of Revenue and Duties of the DPR.
    As for the cartridges, a cartridge factory is operating in Lugansk. He is the only one in Ukraine. It was.
    1. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR 2 July 2018 21: 34
      +1
      Quote: Mik13
      Tashkent (aka Timofeev A. Yu.) Is not a military engineer, but the Minister of Revenue and Duties of the DPR.

      "Our shoot has ripened everywhere." Yes Everywhere "flashes" almost like a first person. "Flickers" and "glows" ...
      1. Konstantin Yu
        Konstantin Yu 3 July 2018 11: 22
        +1
        Noticeably trolling the manual, what is it: grunts or global presentations? For me, any organized modern production is good and worthy of respect, but what is there to produce ... according to the situation. The gun is good or bad, judging by the practices, and being able to organize production in such an environment is already respect.
        1. baudolino
          baudolino 4 July 2018 07: 53
          0
          Tashkent is the most “favorite” character in the DPR. In the sense of crime. He and Zakhara can drag with him.
    2. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 17 July 2018 20: 41
      0
      Quote: Mik13
      As for the cartridges, a cartridge factory is operating in Lugansk. He is the only one in Ukraine. It was.

      Not the only one, but the largest and only one who produced 5,45x39, 7,62x39, 80% 7,62x54 as well as the whole grain. And it is for this reason that dill ask amers about the supply of ammunition and talk about the re-establishment of the M-16
  5. alex-cn
    alex-cn 2 July 2018 15: 54
    +3
    In the DPR there is no production of cartridges.
    In the DNI, but what with Lugansk is that they do not contact?
  6. vlad-ns
    vlad-ns 2 July 2018 15: 54
    0
    Admirable!
    In general, well done designer. I think that without the "Professor" I.V. not done.
    Sale of weapons from the DPR for export ... m-da ...
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 2 July 2018 16: 00
      +1
      Not quite clear winked Export to where?
      1. Separ DNR
        Separ DNR 2 July 2018 21: 39
        +1
        Quote: RaptorF22
        Not entirely clear Export to where?

        The same "unrecognized." Ossetia, Abkhazia, Transnistria. They do not need, or no money?
        Then in ISIS ... They have a dough like crazy toys ...
        In general, this "innovation", from the category of gluing letters "DONBASS" on the PAZIK ...

        PEREMOGA from Zakharchenko ...
      2. vkfriendly
        vkfriendly 3 July 2018 09: 32
        0
        Yes, even in Africa, it does not hurt to look at the sanctions and the rest of the crap.
  7. inkass_98
    inkass_98 2 July 2018 16: 18
    +3
    In Lugansk there is a cartridge factory. What problems to establish supply?
    A two-row magazine, on the contrary, will make the pistol grip more concise and comfortable. The same "Beretta-92" is very easy to use, despite the large-capacity store.
    1. Theodore
      Theodore 2 July 2018 18: 13
      +1
      And Stechkin !!!
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 3 July 2018 06: 41
        +1
        Stechkin was not able to hold in his hands, he only saw from afar, and I had an official TT. The handle is thin, not very comfortable, they tried to make it thicker due to its cheeks, but it didn’t work out very well. Just a two-row store there would be in topic.
        1. Theodore
          Theodore 4 July 2018 18: 14
          0
          I just think that Stechkin didn’t have to do with the TT caliber.
    2. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 17 July 2018 21: 03
      0
      Quote: inkass_98
      A two-row magazine, on the contrary, will make the pistol grip more concise and comfortable. The same "Beretta-92" is very easy to use, despite the large-capacity store.

      1. Controversial statement. Personally, the handles of Margolin, Parabellum and Colt are the most convenient for me (the last prpvda only in the form of MMG was kept) and they have exactly single-row stores ...
      2. Beretta is comfortable to hold for people with a large brush, but the rest is not for everyone, the handle is too wide.
  8. ISSIDOR
    ISSIDOR 2 July 2018 16: 32
    0
    Why two types of stores, the Parabelum cartridge easily enters the TT store from the store and works without problems when replacing the barrel.
    1. 4thParasinok
      4thParasinok 17 July 2018 21: 08
      0
      Quote: ISSIDOR
      ... the Parabelum cartridge easily enters the TT store from the store and works without problems when replacing the barrel.
      It works, but there are distortions ...
  9. Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 2 July 2018 16: 54
    +1
    Wrap a couple laughing I wonder what the question price? And delivered by Russian post lol
  10. the47th
    the47th 2 July 2018 17: 13
    0
    Whatever the adherents of precise shooting say, the 10 round magazine is extremely small. Especially for the gun. Even if a well-aimed shooter kills opponents with a shot in his left eye, the 11th enemy will catch the shooter on reload.
    And since the gun is a rather dead weapon, then this store will be enough, provided that all bullets hit the target, for 2-3 opponents maximum.
    This store is limited for self-defense weapons, but for weapons for combat (which should be the army pistol), the store needs as much capacity as possible, up to infinity.
    1. Squelcher
      Squelcher 2 July 2018 18: 05
      +8
      Do not tell me what kind of infantryman's main weapon? Is it a gun? And what is the total weight of the standard calculation of the fighter?
      The naval officers have a weapon-attribute dagger, which I have never heard a request to change the dagger for broadsword or two-handed sword.
    2. Simargl
      Simargl 3 July 2018 02: 15
      0
      Quote: the47th
      but for weapons for combat (which the army pistol should be)
      Urgently start designing a tape powered gun!
      Caliber him more!
      And the rifle cartridge!
    3. tracer
      tracer 3 July 2018 03: 12
      0
      I'm pretty good at shooting, including from TT. So, I’ll tell you that the gun is “to the extreme” and it will be somewhat self-confident to beat them off from a platoon of machine gunners. 10 rounds is enough at least. In addition, the accuracy of 7.62 / 25 is very decent. As a combat caliber, it is excellent ... And the barrel is longer than the TT with a gun obviously under the beaten track. Maybe I’m wrong. Quick change of the store is a very necessary function. A. If the pistol has a shooting function “like Stechkin’s (automatic), he generally has no price ..
    4. gross kaput
      gross kaput 3 July 2018 07: 44
      -1
      Quote: the47th
      but for weapons for warfare

      laughing Do you understand what nonsense they wrote?
    5. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 4 July 2018 21: 53
      0
      The store may be small in capacity, but it is FLAT - comfortable to wear
      And in another way, on the basis of the drawings and technical documentation, the TT does not
  11. Mefodi5124
    Mefodi5124 2 July 2018 18: 08
    0
    Well done! Keep it up!
  12. Catfish
    Catfish 2 July 2018 18: 20
    +1
    Thanks to the author for the information. hi

    No, I understand that both republics are in a difficult situation and we need to look for any opportunities for survival. But this gun, in my opinion, is a step back. Self-platoon, as I understand it, is not there, but this alone is an anachronism. The system with the trigger, so do not re-insert the drummer either. The article does not say a word about this. The store’s capacity is low by modern standards. There is not a word about the weight of the weapon, but judging by the dimensions, it is not small. Of course, you want to live and count the berdank for God's gift, but it’s still strange to see such a design in the presence of well-developed circuits with self-winding USM.
    With all due respect to the guys from Donetsk and the Author. drinks
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 3 July 2018 02: 16
      +2
      Quote: Sea Cat
      Self-platoon, as I understand it, is not there, but this alone is an anachronism. The system with the trigger, so do not re-insert the drummer either.
      This is TT in the new skin.
  13. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 2 July 2018 18: 30
    +1
    We have one, "Pernach" is called .... But only in the troops it is not .. And there are 7,62 cartridges in warehouses, millions of pieces are ..
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 3 July 2018 08: 00
      0
      Quote: Dzafdet
      And there are 7,62 rounds of ammunition in warehouses, millions of pieces ..

      It’s only a long time ago that all the warranty periods of storage have expired and are being disposed of slowly, in the late USSR the last 7,62X25 TT cartridges were produced at one enterprise - factory No. 38 in the city of Yuryuzan, production was discontinued in 1989, the factory itself, together with the TT cartridges production line for poher 93rd According to current standards, the warranty period for storing cartridges in central warehouses is 20 years, after which they are issued only for training practice or only in wartime.
  14. Curious
    Curious 2 July 2018 18: 40
    +7
    “The gun is completely made in the territory of the DPR. Everything is up to any screw - up to any wires and springs here - everything here consists of our materials, made and developed by our designers and engineers with our hands ”
    "The remaining equipment of the Soviet military-industrial complex (turning and milling machines with CNC) successfully cope with the task"

    Submachine gun Temyakov and Menkin
    Made by the partisans of the Pinsk partisan formation, the Budyonny brigade, the Kotovsky detachment Menkin Y.A. and Temyakov Y.I.
    Yankel Menkin before the war worked as a mechanic in the cinema service.
    Temyakov Yakov Iosifovich in 1940 graduated from the Kiev Tank School with the rank of military technician
    2nd rank.
    Tools and equipment: vice, files, hacksaws, three drills, iron scrap.
    An interesting description of the list of parts from which some of the TM-44s were made has been preserved:
    "From old unfit for riding bicycles, bicycle frames, from water pipes - a casing
    automatic machine. The shutter is from the mill shaft. The trigger mechanism from the iron of an old gas barrel.
    Barrel - rifle from a defective rifle with a destroyed barrel. Cable springs
    captured German balloon. Duralumin lining from downed German
    the plane. Cattle horn. "
    So it’s not worth Zakharchenko cheeks inflated.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 8 July 2018 02: 59
      0
      Quote: Curious
      Tools and equipment: vice, files, hacksaws, three drills, iron scrap.

      Files and scrap are especially “impressive” ... Somewhere I met such references ... what
  15. Oleg 53
    Oleg 53 2 July 2018 19: 45
    +2
    Yesterday's news. The TT pistol worked perfectly on these two cartridges with a simple barrel change, without changing the magazine. In principle, removing combat hooks on the barrel i.e. excluding their engagement with the shutter, you can shoot PM cartridges. Three barrels three cartridges. Again, there are enough TT pistols in the warehouses, so there you just need to lengthen the store and you will receive a stronghold with minimal costs. I think it’s not a problem to buy them from the Russian Federation or from any former country from the social camp .... It is better to do OC 27 on your CPUs. It is much more interesting for the army.
    1. Zaits
      Zaits 3 July 2018 12: 28
      +1
      Well, if you basically choose between the original TT and the "stronghold", the TT clearly wins. There are no fundamental changes in the "new product", the mass is much higher, but the quality of the refinement may be questionable.
      Another question is, in what condition and what years of TT production can be found in warehouses? It is far from obvious that having bought a hundred or two, you will not get a pig in a poke.
  16. beeper
    beeper 2 July 2018 20: 14
    +7
    Somehow I no longer had the desire to write about weapons, I only had a “favor” to Mark Poddubny, according to the promised commentary on his article on the “ideal pistol (army)”, until I finished writing the second part. ..and here again the “Donetsk gunsmiths” who, IMHO, have become almost the same Runetem as the “British scientists ?!” smile
    Another “wunderwaffe” from “Donetsk gunsmiths (or is it“ holy people ”, since they are“ Donetsk ”, and you can’t criticize, but only praise that you haven’t fled to Russia, like so many Donetsk ?!), probably to to justify their presence in the rear, not on the battle line? All of their “works” are eclectic and monstrous and do not have any practical benefit for the Donbass militia, but they give reason, far from the whistle of bullets, tell them “and we plowed” and put rear videos on YouTube (“Donetsk gunsmiths” would try even with with his allegedly “anti-sniper” 23mm one-time (in every sense!) “Separatist” shoot at the contact line of the warring parties, but as one Soviet poet said about BAM: “My business is to write a verse calling for BAM, and let them go to build the highway OTHER! "So and these "designers" are opportunists (they even know how to please leader Zakharchenko, calling his craft cute to his ear, and alterago (?), "Stronghold" ?! Yes ), looking at their "end result", obviously just serving their number "any day until the evening" ??? smile ) as it were, "testing" their imperfection "for the DPR army"?
    Practically "a penny-pig", having copied F.V. Tokarev’s not-so-successful compilation, they also managed to add mass (if I read the fuzzy inscription on the drawing if I’ve correctly, in my handheld gadget, then the total mass of all the details of this gun indicated on the drawing stamp, in the lower right corner, as 1,3726 kg, in the technical specification, in the lower left part of the drawing, the mass of the same pistol is already supposedly 1115 g, and with ten cartridges 7.62x25 mm TT (weighing 10.2 ÷ 11 g each, i.e. 10x (10.2 ÷ 11) = 102 ÷ 110 g), for some reason, downplayed to only 1200 g (?), and If you take 1373 g from the design calculation of the total mass of structural parts, reflected in the stamp of the assembly drawing, then with 10 TT cartridges the total mass of the pistol with cartridges will be 1475 ÷ 1483 g, which is much closer to reality, judging by the dimensions and the presented drawing, IMHO) and dimensions, not even an iota eliminating the well-known design flaws of the TT ?! smile
    Already from the appearance it is clear that the center of mass of this industrially replicated clumsy megasamopal is not optimally located, not to mention the completely non-optimal form of the handle, access to the descent, and it is unclear what the hell (for "collective farm prettiness" a la " I’m so crazy "?!", cut at a non-functional, just a "wild angle", notches on the sides of the shutter (and they are not intended for "beauty", but for reliable, non-slip, grip, sticky and slippery from the blood, bruised or frostbitten fingers okrogo, slimy dirt or icy shutter, in all cases, the combat operation !!!), so that neither take in this "design", then it's not "thank God!"
    In the DPR, for the “warmed up” near-weapons self-made, it’s exactly what expanse is “without fish and crab-fish” ?! request These are probably the same “Donetsk gunsmiths” who laid out the “vidyuhi” about the “grenade launcher” firing the dismantled 23 mm shells that explode anyway (as the shell self-liquidator burns out, it’s good if not in flight, but already falling in the area goals), posing as a full-fledged design ersatz-grenade launcher ?! smile
    For such monstrous dimensions and masses, the product of the “Donetsk gunsmiths” should have a magazine capacity not less than that of the “Stechkin” and the trigger must be self-cocked.
    And for the conditions of limited material and energy resources, in which LDNR actually exist, the design of such products should be optimized as much as possible in terms of metal utilization and energy consumption, and this is absolutely not observed in this “case”, “the horse didn’t lie there” is not the “Donetsk gunsmiths”, but the real mediocre (or engaged? winked ) "burners of resources", so necessary for the besieged LDNR, mockers who use weapons incompetence and the "reverent connivance" of their top leadership !!!
    PS Well, if they were taken mechanically to copy, then they would have copied the Browning HP, in which there is also a one-cartridge output of the supply of a much more capacious magazine, and the barrel bore is locked correctly when firing, the main and return springs !!!
    We would creatively rework the “highpower” USM, eliminating the shortcomings and making it self-winding! Just do not need to reproduce the Browning fuse of the removed store, it is superfluous! The design of the handle and, in general, “Brownig HP” is also sufficient (although there are still reserves for thoughtful creativity Yes ) comfortable and correct, as the centering is optimal, all the same, Moses Braunig and Didier Sav were Real, thoughtful and critically thinking, Weapon Designers, and not mindless amateur compilers who use the difficult situation of the LPR in the conditions of the civil war in Ukraine, IMHO.
    The product of the “Donetsk gunsmiths”, flamboyantly named “Oplot” is, if competently “legible”, it will be an expensive dream of imported collectors of all kinds of “exclusive” design “exotics” (all the more so because the store’s capacity fits well with the arms legislation of the USA’s largest arms market, and the proceeds from the sale of these curious “rarities”, dollars, you could buy the necessary machine tools and tools, or normal, reliable and efficient weapons for the militias!), but it is absolutely not good for arming a warring army! The production of such near-weapons "crafts" is a direct damage, in material and human (in battle !!!) resources, in the defense capability of LDNR !!!
    If the “Donetsk gunsmiths” really wanted to copy the TT, it was just possible to make an additional barrel and a Parabelum magazine for pistols of this type located in warehouses (all the more so since examples of using these cartridges in Hungarian TTs are known!) And do not "originalize" in vain!
    1. Vladimir DNR
      Vladimir DNR 2 July 2018 23: 47
      +1
      You are surely a "good engineer" !!!
      1. beeper
        beeper 3 July 2018 03: 11
        +2
        Thank you for the friendly "horseshoe", comrade Vladimir DPR !!!
    2. Zaits
      Zaits 3 July 2018 04: 15
      +2
      "PS Well, if they were taken to mechanically copy, then they would have copied Browning HP"
      Most likely, the Donetsk gunsmiths simply obtained a set of technological documentation for the TT. Well, the drawings were slightly redrawn.
    3. Horse, people and soul
      Horse, people and soul 3 July 2018 18: 58
      +1
      If the “Donetsk gunsmiths” really wanted to copy the TT, then it was possible to simply make an additional barrel and a Parabellum magazine for the pistols of this type located in warehouses


      Austrians do that. Barrel 9x19 for TT and do not even need other stores. From their own store at 7.62x25 9x19 can be served.

      http://www.igbaustria.com/shop/product_info.php?i
      nfo = p51_igb-custom-barrel-for-tokarev-tt33.html
    4. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 4 July 2018 23: 04
      0
      Well this is not the case
      Pistols are generally irrelevant for defense, at least in Russian-style armies, where only officers are armed, and the weapon is not military, but "honorable," and practically none of the officers can use it) With the Automatic, there is VERY striking contrast. they really learn to use it.
      Here, obviously, they found technical documentation for the TT pistol (surprisingly, there is no freely available technical documentation on Browning HP, therefore they did "what was") - and based on it they made an elongated version, for two calibers, which themselves suggested
      The barrel length was also added and, after it, the muzzle velocity of the bullet and the length of the sighting line obviously increased = the pistol became more long-range. I think he can confidently work up to 120 m in experienced hands SURE. Although of course, real users such as army officers at such ranges are unlikely to shoot a pistol, but the fact that there is an opportunity is already pleasing. Further - there is a shortage of THIN pistols on the market due to the general craze for the store’s capacity. Changing the cheeks of the handle - we will still get 20,5 mm thick full-sized gun! To say that this is not in demand means to understand nothing at all in the army pistol and the needs of users. Yes, the fact that they did not master the self-cocking within the framework of the design is bad, and even the fuse could not be integrated, although he would solve the problem of the lack of self-cocking. By the way, on some prototype there was a fuse, on the shutter, in the video it is shown, but, apparently, a sample without a fuse went into the series. Colt 1911 is still in operation, moreover, in top flight ghans (open class pistols) it occupies a niche of 50 percent. Apparently, these are all fans of an obsolete design, betting their achievements at stake against a blind commitment to the "ancient" design)))
      The manufacturing technology is modern - on a CNC machine, the production culture is high.
      Product quality - I think high, hardly below the level of say SVI
      The TT pistol for our country - quite a cult one, did not lose its effectiveness and, in fact, allow it to be turned around - at a normal price I would find a niche for myself, at least as a sporting weapon (perhaps with some adaptation to the rules). I myself would be happy to use it for this purpose - in the Classic discipline, I’m quite a competitive product. And you are nonsense and say - but who needs it. Full-size, powerful pistol with work up to 120 m thick with a matchbox - yes, nobody needs it, from the sofa)
      1. beeper
        beeper 5 July 2018 01: 52
        +1
        Purely by chance, I looked in and looked at your post, Michael. From the context, I understand that it’s as if you were reproaching me with "delirium" ?! smile
        In principle, often, for years, reading VO, I have formed an opinion about many commentators, such a rating of my own use — those who are interesting to me humanly or as experts, and those who are not very interesting and unrecognizable ... but posts which I sometimes read, that's how yours is.
        What do I want to say? You made several landmark statements, according to which I identified you as a “weapon lover” who is not very well versed in weapons and weapon technology for mass production (and matchboxes are also not very good, as old Soviet boxes were 17-18 thick mm, and the current ones are only about 13 mm, in the red request )
        You obviously don’t know what “metal consumption” is and “what it is eaten with”, you don’t understand the difference between small-scale production of sports pistols and large-scale, or even mass, production of army pistols, production of peacetime and wartime (in conditions of shortage material, energy and human resources) ?! Therefore, they didn’t master anything that I said, and everything that you, due to your incompetence, are not able to understand (even if it is laid out in front of you in the photo that accompanies the Article under discussion ?!), brand “nonsense” ?! request
        Have you heard about precision casting, batch processing of parts by pulling, satellite parts, powder sintering, stamping and welding, and don’t know? Yes
        It’s even somehow strange that you, Mikhail, never really hinted at the really modern 3D printing method ?! request smile
        Your "hilarious reasoning" about the "Russian-style army" and "confident work of 120 (for a tight look" with an additional 20 mm barrel length and sighting line can provide this, you, like a real "gunsmith theorist" ("the muzzle has obviously increased bullet speed "), at least imagine that tiny percentage of the increase in the initial velocity of the bullet, because even the" Donetsk gunsmiths "indicated 420 m / s in their drawing, as for a TT with its 116 mm barrel Yes ) meters "and about allegedly being in demand in the army of a one and a half kilogram" full-sized "10 charging monster of" matchbox thickness "(which, you yourself admit, even" nobody needs any of the sofa "Internet fans of ANY weapon? !!!) also characterize" non-hazardous " Your competencies, alas! wink
        Eh, Mikhail-Mikhail, would you have to “learn military affairs in the present way”, for a long time and hard, so that would be good ?! request
        Threat Mikhail, because in my comment there was not a word about “find technical documentation” for “Browning HP”, but only my personal opinion was expressed (as an echo to the mention in Article- “The gun system was taken from Browning.” Yes ), that it would be better if the “Donetsk gunsmiths” took this later, more successful Browning model of the pistol for copying and only creatively processed its trigger, making it self-cocking, and you (apparently not having carefully read the Article and my post), having done nothing more, already they themselves hastened to come up with a reason to demonstrate their supposedly "wit" ?! wink smile
  17. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 2 July 2018 20: 48
    +2
    Question - why sculpt a makeshift "short-barrel" if it is full of army available? Just like in Borderland, in Borderland (in "girlhood" - the Armenian borderland, for the NKAR) they riveted. "Weapon firing point blank"
    1. Michael HORNET
      Michael HORNET 4 July 2018 23: 10
      +1
      In general, they refused in vain from 7,62x25 cartridges, its potential is MUCH higher than the wretched 9x18. Now the Czechs have made a top-end pistol chambered for 7,5x27, with a capacity of 30 carbine (that is, a muzzle bullet energy of more than 1200 joules). And on the basis of the TT cartridge, using a weapon suitable for high pressure, it would be possible to make a pistol with an energy of about 1 kJ and working confidently up to 180 m approximately, and it would be an excellent cartridge for PDV
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 8 July 2018 03: 13
        0
        In addition to the 7,62 x25 mm cartridge, there was also his "brother": 9 x 25 mm ... The Cheetah software was also developed under the 9 x 30 mm cartridge .... And the weapons factories are "oriented" to the production of pistol barrels of 9 mm caliber .. .
      2. 4thParasinok
        4thParasinok 17 July 2018 21: 40
        0
        Quote: Michael HORNET
        Now the Czechs have made a top-end pistol chambered for 7,5x27, with a capacity of 30 carbine (that is, a muzzle bullet energy of more than 1200 joules). And on the basis of the TT cartridge, using a weapon suitable for high pressure, it would be possible to make a pistol with an energy of about 1 kJ and working confidently up to 180 m

        1. Another masturbation ...
        2. The barrel under this cartridge will cost as much as 3 OTs-27 pistols, and the resource will be no more than 1000 shots, if not less.
        3. I hope to further guess myself, although I doubt it, but I hope.
  18. Catfish
    Catfish 3 July 2018 00: 32
    +2
    Quote: pishchak
    Somehow I no longer had the desire to write about weapons, I only had a “favor” to Mark Poddubny, according to the promised commentary on his article on the “ideal pistol (army)”, until I finished writing the second part. ..and here again the “Donetsk gunsmiths” who, IMHO, have become almost the same Runetem as the “British scientists ?!” smile .................................................
    .................................................
    .................................................
    .............
    If the “Donetsk gunsmiths” really wanted to copy the TT, it was just possible to make an additional barrel and a Parabelum magazine for pistols of this type located in warehouses (all the more so since examples of using these cartridges in Hungarian TTs are known!) And do not "originalize" in vain!


    Good night comrade Pishchak!

    In general, I meant all this, I just put it shorter and purely on "practice", so to speak. hi
    1. beeper
      beeper 3 July 2018 03: 07
      +2
      Good night, comrade Sea Cat! Completely, with the exception of the last line about respect for the “Donetsk gunsmiths”, because you, the heroes of the Article, meant “guys from Donetsk” (a fundamental disagreement with the last line, although I support your respect for the Author of the article, and prevented me from adding a comment so consonant with my thoughts request , some kind of persistent antipathy for me against these “Donetsk gunsmiths” is growing, because I see for myself that from their profane (IMHO) “projectile” and “anti-sniper” Separatist to “bikalibernoy hyperpistol” “Stronghold”, that when they are at stake real soldier’s lives, they are engaged in frank “self-expression”, without understanding the essence of using “weapons” compiled by them, because it should not be created for a shooting gallery or museum, but for battle !!!) I support your comments!
      Now, for some time now, if I write my comment, I read everything else after writing my own, in order to maintain a direct impression of the Article I have read, without adding to it the impression of third-party comments.
      But I’m not surprised that many readers wrote something similar, but I’m surprised why the so-called “Donetsk gunsmiths”, in their case, do not even have basic knowledge about the subject of their compilation “creativity” ???
      By the way, all novice designers go through such eclectic and absurd constructions (and I am no exception, I also went the same way Yes at one time), but with a sound statement of the case, such designs either remain on paper or are mocked up in a single copy and are not even supposed to be put into series.
      Best regards hi
  19. Zaits
    Zaits 3 July 2018 03: 45
    +4
    Well, you can somehow understand the need for their own production of pistols. And you can understand why they were engaged in remaking the TT, and not copying the FN HP. But there is something that in principle is not subject to understanding.
    - Added at least 0.25 Kg to the original! The question is, what the hell is planning a piece of iron with such a mass? To whom and where will it be needed, when it comes to necessity?
    - And what, the figurative wasn’t enough to add a fuse, as in the “tokegipt”? This will end with the fact that someone thread from the leadership of the DPR will shoot a thread for himself. And rightly so.
  20. Catfish
    Catfish 3 July 2018 13: 34
    +2
    "but with a sound statement of the matter, such constructions either remain on paper or are mocked up in a single copy and are not even supposed to be put into series."

    Good day comrade Pishchak!

    But yes, the launch of a sample of even yesterday’s, but rather the day before yesterday, is simply surprising. Obviously, someone from the "theirs" leadership suffers from an unhealthy craving for Tokarev’s not entirely successful design. recourse
    And as for respect for the “guys from Donetsk”: I like the fact that they do not “just sit on the ass,” but try to do something with their own hands. They have no experience, traditions in the design of the "shooting", too, but at least they are trying. Over time, it can work out. This is a matter of respect. And so, the first pancake is clearly lumpy. Although, I think, they are in our opinion with you ...
    With respect hi м.
    1. Zaits
      Zaits 3 July 2018 14: 53
      +2
      You can try as much as you like, but without any intelligible statement of the real practical problem, there will be no sense. And the problem is that in the case of the "stronghold" it does not smell. But the window dressing is a mile away.
      In fact, all this is more like poor management combined with very weak engineering work. Despite the fact that with all the shortcomings, TT can be considered a model of the exact opposite.
    2. beeper
      beeper 3 July 2018 15: 02
      +4
      hi I completely agree, Comrade Sea Cat! But hasn't the “formation period” of the “fussy” beginner Donetsk gunsmiths not sitting on the opera dragged on too long ?!
      In my opinion, they lack a self-critical attitude to their compilation "creativity" and an elementary idea of ​​the real use of weapons in battle, because they already "fashioned" the whole "line (unless hyperTT is their" first damn lump ", you carefully follow ostentatious "creativity" of "Donetsk gunsmiths", at least in VO ???) of "dubious" masterpieces ", spending a lot of time and resources on this ?!
      It would be better if they just sat on their ass and thought, “moved their brains”, and since there was nobody, they themselves would have studied and analyzed the experience of combat use, to develop criteria that should be met by the “results” of their chaotic “activities” .. . and the same Chesslo, even for this heavily weighted and monstrous TToid stronghold, they get it like in an old Soviet joke about "a bulk apple, a monkey and a student": ... "what is there to think, you need to shake!"? ?? smile
      I don’t care what opinion the so-called “Donetsk gunsmiths” have of my opinion, if only their activity was REALLY useful defense of the LDNR, rather than devouring, and so limited, resources for the production of such ugly “monsters” of dubious combat value and megametally-intensive, low-tech in production.
      And, honestly, who will agree to entrust their lives to such homemade products in battle, after all, the prototype mass produced at the specialized arms production was by no means an example of reliability in combat use, not to mention increased (more than XNUMX times! !!) the mass of this amateurish “Donetsk copy” ...

      "The designer, he must think about something all the time. My products are known to the whole world, but this does not mean that we need to stop and not think further. The designer must work all his life." M.T. Kalashnikov
  21. Catfish
    Catfish 3 July 2018 18: 08
    +2
    I agree, but not in everything, Comrade Pishchak. hi

    Still, people dance from scratch and from the stove. But with this mother-in-law samopal, everything is somehow strange. It seems that someone came up with something, asked to help in the implementation of the "friend Vasya", and Vasya has a friend at the top ... and so on. Otherwise, how to explain the fact that this instance got on the stream? what

    And about M.T. Kalashnikov has already been told so much here that I don’t want to get into it again. I am not a "cheer patriot" and I do not consider the elephant a "truly Russian animal", I need to know the truth no matter how nasty it is. And everything that I know (and was known in the early eighties) about the design of the AK-47 looks very unpleasant compared to the official history. As, however, with any story in general. All! I am silent, and not a word more. hi
    1. beeper
      beeper 3 July 2018 20: 20
      +3
      The fact of the matter, Comrade Sea Cat, is that these “guys” are dancing around their “stove” and so “warmed up” near it that they don’t even want to start from scratch, from the very basics of the business that they are contracting for? ! smile After all, the practical benefits from them, by and large, are also “zero”, or even “minus” request ?!
      And as for Mikhail Timofeevich Kalashnikov, he himself described everything (how and what, who participated and helped, contrary to the conditions of the competition, at the suggestion of his assistant, design engineer A. Zaitsev and technical test officers of the test site, especially Deikin and Lyuty, together completely redesigned, re-arranged, the design of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, even shortening the barrel, which was originally forbidden to be done to make it more reliable in work ...) in his books “Notes of the weapons designer” and “The trajectory of fate”, in their many numerical interviews in Soviet military magazines "Military Herald", "Military Knowledge" ..., popular military-patriotic brochures, newspapers, on TV, in the program "Serving the Soviet Union" ... in the book of the designer of the famous sports pistol M.V. Margolin “I am still a soldier”, A. A. Malimon's “Notes of a tester-gunsmith” has memories of the history of creation and testing, and then the introduction of mass production of AK, it is written in detail, I recommend it to begin with ... whoever seeks will find fellow . Relate to what you already knew.
      If you are looking for a "nasty and unpleasant truth", then such unjust truth has also been completely poured and poured up to now, starting with the "perestroika" conspiracy theological revelations of the "type" and you know that Kalashnikov appropriated the Schmeisser construction ?! " or "he didn’t have an engineering diploma (despite the fact that being a naturally talented boy as a technician, Mikhail Timofeevich persistently engaged in self-education, which the uneducated, never engineer, Hugo Schmeisser did not do !!!)" to the rest amateurish and engaged rubbish Yes !
      I have somewhere a whole folder of such clippings, from various printed sources, and half of the total notebook was written in a neat handwriting only with his design tips, details of the technology and cases from design practice, not counting the interview and the history of other weapons designers.
      Mikhail Timofeevich himself will not answer his spiteful critics, but in his memoirs and in the memoirs of his associates involved in the creation and promotion of AK and PC in life, there are almost all the answers, as their personal experiences of those days are partially reflected.
      And where are the "cheers-patriots" and elephants, and why are you suddenly shy, Comrade Sea Cat ?! smile This is a living history of technology and I am proud that I lived at the same time as Mikhail Margolin, Efim Khaidurov, Mikhail Kalashnikov, Eugene Dragunov, Nikolai Makarov, our outstanding Weapon Designers, from whom I drew a lot and draw so far! Yes
      hi
  22. Horse, people and soul
    Horse, people and soul 3 July 2018 18: 51
    0
    http://www.igbaustria.com/shop/product_info.php?i
    nfo = p51_igb-custom-barrel-for-tokarev-tt33.html


    In Austria, for TTs, they simply make a barrel under 9x19 and the TT's native store is equipped with these cartridges.

  23. Catfish
    Catfish 3 July 2018 23: 30
    +2
    Quote: pishchak

    And where are the "cheers-patriots" and elephants, and why are you suddenly shy, Comrade Sea Cat ?! E


    I was not shy, dear comrade Pishchak. I have not been shy for a long time, I’m just tired of arguing about AK and its authorship. And now I won’t. I’ll just say that during my work at the State Historical Museum I had to meet different people and get information from them. From living people, not from print sources. That, in fact, is all. I really respect your opinion and yourself. He carried all sorts of pharisaism. hi

    PS And the patriots really have nothing to do with it, I just don’t like to ... cook them. :)))
  24. gross kaput
    gross kaput 23 July 2018 21: 04
    0
    Quote: V. Salama
    All this is true for a free shutter, but on an articulated system the system is “closed”, since a bullet presses the barrel in the direction of its movement when moving along the barrel, which does not allow the shutter to move until it passes through the barrel muzzle.


    The statement about equalizing impulses is generally gorgeous - just where do you get the impulse for the shutter to work from then on? from fervent prayer? You really don’t even know the basics of physics or just Troll?
    I wonder what you can teach imbitsilov? Okay, they skipped physics), looking at the diagrams and drawings how it works, too, you can’t understand, are you lazy to read books on YouTube too? or corny do not know about this? Look for time-lapse shooting of shooting from Colt 1911 or TT and enjoy the sight of movement the barrel-bolt assembly begins immediately, and the disengagement occurs immediately after leaving the barrel bullet - it is clearly seen how the barrel begins to "get out" of the bolt after the bullet is flying out ie the trip has already occurred.
    In general, I suggest you transfer the dialogue to the Hansa - a long time ago there were no such characters there - at least neighing.
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 23 July 2018 23: 07
      0
      And finally - you can read it anyway, even though you don’t like books laughing
  25. AB
    AB 25 September 2018 21: 17
    0
    Everyone talks so seriously about 2 barrels, but the point is different. Since all 10 units of the Ukrainian T-84 "Oplot" tank turned out to be incapable of combat, in the DPR they were cut into short-barreled "Oplot". And what, do not sell the same good.
  26. Eule
    Eule 15 January 2022 18: 37
    0
    Well done!
    They did not get carried away with the fashionable "drummer's additional platoons" and fuses. There are two requirements for military weapons - accuracy and reliability.
    The very fact of releasing a pistol is also the training of design and working personnel, and a chance to subsequently enter the world market with a more advanced pistol.
    The only alarming thing is that the 9x19 cartridge is sent into the chamber 7,62x25, and rests with the muzzle of the sleeve against the slope of the chamber. This was verified during the Second World War by many soldiers who equipped stores with a lack of light (in a dugout or somewhere else). In this case, the TT recompresses the bullet and it flies to the target, but the sleeve undergoes plastic deformation, and it is possible to knock it out only in the workshop. But the gun remains intact, and if the shooter manages to hide from the enemy, then he has a chance to survive.
    I wonder, with such a loading error, what will happen to this gun?