Military Review

Silent threat replaying the Russian submarine fleet in the absence of the Husky project

48



Starting with the projects of domestic multipurpose nuclear submarines 671РТМ / P "Schuka" (according to NATO codification "Victor-III"), 945 "Barracuda" ("Sierra-I"), and also American "Los Angeles", the concept of using multifunctional nuclear-powered submarine missile cruisers in the maritime and oceanic theaters of war, it began to slowly shift to the strike side. In particular, the specialists of the St. Petersburg Marine Engineering Bureau "Malachite" were assigned the priority task of adapting the 671РТМ / К modification submarines, as well as the submarines of later projects to the Granat strategic cruise missiles (KS-10) intended for Use of 122 caliber mm. On the other side of the Atlantic, similar work on integrating Tomahawks into a shooting complex of multi-purpose Los Angeles class submarines was carried out by specialists from Northrop Grumman Shipbuilding Newport News, as well as General Dynamics Electric Boat Division.

It is no coincidence that similar trends began to prevail in building the appearance of the weapons of multipurpose submarine cruisers. Against the backdrop of the considerable success of Soviet specialists in the development of 2-fly heavy and maneuvering with significant overloads of ship-based anti-ship missiles such as 4K80 Bazalt, 3M45 Granit, X-41 Moskit, as well as the progress of the American company McDonnel Douglas in tuning and launching into serial production of AGM-84A subsonic anti-ship missiles capable of massive use (deck forces aviation) to break through any ship’s air defense system available at that time, the defense departments and commands of the Navy of the superpowers realized that ship placement of the “strategic asset” of strike missile weapons alone could lead to real failure during major military operations involving fleet. For example, a successful anti-ship strike by the MAPL pr. 949 Antey forces against the Aegis rocket-control cruiser weapons Class "Ticonderoga", equipped with a universal vertical launcher Mk 41, clearly led to the loss of 30 — 60 "Tomahawks." A full-fledged enhanced AUG is 2 cruisers of this class, the destruction of which would lead to the loss of 60 — 120 SCR type RGM-109. As a result, the “long arm” of the fleet noticeably weakened.

The only way out of a difficult situation was to equip the "Axes" (modified UGM-109) multipurpose nuclear submarines 3-th generation. Considering their invulnerability to anti-ship assets, high acoustic secrecy, and therefore less likelihood of finding enemy hydro-acoustic means and interception by anti-submarine aircraft, Los Angeles became the main underwater strike component of the fleet, in addition to the high potential of the underwater predator achieved by the use of torpedoes, represented by torpedoes Mk 46 and Mk 48. Despite the fact that the use of the entire range of weapons, including C-10 "Pomegranate", as well as the UGM-109A "Tomahawk", on the Soviet and American submarines involved at that time advanced combat information control systems "Omnibus" and AN / BSY -1 (starting with SSN-751), synchronized with active and passive sonar complexes and operator terminals through a specialized multiplexed data communication bus, the American approach to the placement of the Tomahawk TFR has turned out to be more rational and up-to-date. In particular, starting from the SSN-719 “Providance” (modification “Flight II”) launched on July 27 1985, all submarines of the class are equipped with the 12 container modular universal TLU Mk 45 VLS, which can accommodate as transport-starting cells Mk 14 for Tomahawk cruise missiles, as well as modules for ASM UGM-84D2 / G / N.


Loading a transport and launch container with a Tomahawk cruise missile into one of the VPU cells Mk 45 multi-purpose nuclear submarine SSN-723 USS "Oklahoma City" class "Los Angeles"


Thanks to this innovation, the flexibility and responsiveness of the 30 fire work of the latest 688 / I submarines compare favorably with those of standard MAPLs with torpedo tubes alone. For example, submarines with vertical launchers allow simultaneous launching of strategic cruise missiles and anti-ship missiles at remote ground targets and surface ships, without putting all this work on the mechanisms of torpedo racks. And this, in turn, significantly reduces the likelihood of abnormal and emergency situations, because torpedo tubes can be involved in the tasks of a torpedo attack of several underwater and surface targets at once, which will automatically create restrictions on the parallel use of anti-ship and strategic RP. The concept of TLU Mk 45 has found its application not only in "Los Angeles". The next class of multi-purpose submarines with a similar "equipment" was the "Virginia" in the options "Block I / II" (built 10 units). The following "form factor" of vertical launchers entered the Virginia armament architecture of the Block III 29 August 2014 modification of the year (starting with the SSN-784 USS North Dakota submarine). It is represented by two 6-charging stationary modules of a revolving type with a total number of transport and launch glasses in 12 units.

The advantage of this TLU is the presence of only 2 powerful mechanized hatch opening / closing units of two turret-mounted PUs, while the classic Mk 45 has 12-like nodes with slightly smaller dimensions, which together take much more internal volume, which can be used to accommodate additional avionics equipment, or increasing rocket-torpedo racks. Naturally, in the case of using the Virginia multipurpose submarine exclusively as an underwater assault cruiser, a full volley of four 533-mm torpedo tubes and revolving vertical launchers can make 38 Tomahawks, and this is commensurate with a volley from the universal Mk 41 launchers control of rocket weapons of the class “Arleigh Burke”, only now it will be hundreds of times more difficult to detect and destroy such a low-noise underwater “arsenal” hiding somewhere in the waters of the north-eastern part of the Norwegian Sea rather than the AN / SPY-1D (V) AN / SPY-16D multipurpose radar and Link-XNUMX “Arley Burke” transmitter.

As you have already guessed, 5 X-class 150 submarines carrying Tomahawks and 30 — 40 torpedoes of the Mk 48 Mod 5 ADCAP / Mod 7 CBASS type 60 — 80 km torpedoes are an extremely formidable threat, and they are a very formidable threat for 600 — 885 CBASS, 1984 — 1989 class submarines, 70 — 80 CBASS submarines, 20 — 25 CBASS submarines, 10 — 60 CBASS class 70-XNUMX submarine one rather noisy Ohio-class underwater cruiser in shock version with SSGN codification. It will be quite easy to track this large object (“roaring cow”) by means of the modern highly sensitive hydroacoustic complex MGK-XNUMX Irtysh-Amfora-Yasen, which is installed on MAPL Ave XNUMX Yasen. If you rely on open press data, for example, on the verified analytical work of the retired rear admiral and the submarine division commander (XNUMX-XNUMX) Vladimir Dmitrievich Yamkov on the Independent Military Review resource, as well as the official parameters of the similar Irtysh- Amphora-B ”, it becomes clear that this SJC can“ grope ”the Ohio on a quiet run at a distance of about XNUMX — XNUMX km, while the Virginia shows up at a distance of no more than XNUMX — XNUMX km. In the same turn, the submarines of the Virginia class, equipped with a powerful in-shell nose-sonic station AN / BQQ-XNUMX, are able to detect the "Ash" on a quiet run at a distance of about XNUMX — XNUMX km. This is the first and rather unpleasant moment. The above figures, of course, can not fully correspond to real indicators, but rather closely reflect the real state of affairs.

In particular, in his article “Fighting People, Not Ideas,” Vladimir Yamkov compared the Virginia Block I with the SSNB Borei Ave. 955, where he indicated the range of direction finding of our strategic missile cruiser through AN / BQQ-10 on 50. km “Ash” in the existing variants of the 885 / M pr. (Severodvinsk and Kazan) can be detected at a greater distance. Why? The fact is that, unlike Boreas, the submarines of the 885 A / M Yasen / -M never received a water-jet propulsion type, instead there is a conventional 7 low-noise low-noise propeller of open architecture with composite damping of the blades. Of course, such a design noticeably dampens excessive vibration and acoustic noise; Moreover, judging by the profile of one of the blades on a camouflage cloak (photo of the Severodvinsk launch), it can be assumed that the 885 pr propellers belong to the so-called “cavitational” type with an increased area of ​​the blades, which reduces the cavitational effect due to pressure distribution over a larger area than conventional screws with pronounced sickle-shaped blades. Meanwhile, this design does not eliminate the effect of cavitation completely, but only reduces it several times. As a result, the open-type water jet propulsion unit, installed on Borey, Virginia and Sea Wolfs, is much more efficient in terms of increasing acoustic secrecy.


Standard bow hydroacoustic station AN / BQQ-10A (below) and wide-aperture HAC LAB (above)


Much more problems from the MAPL “Virginia” can arise after equipping the Block III modification submarines with the newest in-situ hydroacoustic complex LAB (“Large Aperture Bow Array”), characterized by a larger area of ​​aperture from the active transmitting emitters and, accordingly, passive receiving sensor hydrophones (1800 units) with an average service life from 20 to 30 years. A new acoustic grille, distinguished by a greater azimuthal scanning zone and resolution, has one more important advantage - a much longer range of direction finding in the passive mode of operation. “Ash” without a water propeller can be detected at a distance of 80 — 90 km in the shallow sea and 136 — 153 km - in the deep sea (the second far zone of acoustic illumination). Naturally, in difficult hydrological conditions, this range will significantly decrease, but the parameters of the Irtysh-Amphora will decrease.

Conclusion: as of today, only two operating submarines of the 885 "Ash" and 885 "Yasen-M" projects in dueling situations will hardly be able to oppose 8 once to the superior number of multi-purpose Virginia submarines. Meanwhile, the universal ship shooting complex 3РUM-14В UKSK, represented by a vertical c-9-c 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9000 UC. take on board the total caliber ammunition in 346 units, or 32 units, taking into account the possibility of self-defense, which is almost 3 times more than in Virginia.

Thus, even "Severodvinsk" and "Kazan" have enormous potential in performing strategic strike operations, and, leaving the tasks of underwater battles with "Virginia" and "Los Angeles" for submarines of the "Pike-B" class, they are able to overcome anti-submarine forbidding zones. and access restrictions and the A2 / AD maneuver in the North Atlantic, and then make a successful attempt to strike with the Gauges on the necessary strategic Allied Strategic Offices in Western Europe or even on the east coast of the United States. We will not deny the level of danger of such operations, because we all are well aware of the intensity of the work of anti-submarine aircraft and frigates / EM PLO, which the command of the United NATO Navy in this region can afford. Against the background of the 2 / M Yasen / M submarines' superior X-NUMX superiority over the Virginia in the number of missile equipment, the command of the US Navy decided to hurry up and immediately issued to the British subdivision BAE Systems Inc. a contract for the development of improved and enhanced modular vertical PU, which should be introduced on a promising modification MAPL 885-generation "Virginia Block V".

First of all, we are talking about increasing the number of revolving launchers from two to four units. Secondly, the new fixed “drums” will not contain 6, but 7 strategic UGM-109E “Tomahawk Block IV” cruise missiles. Thanks to these measures, the number of cruise missiles in TLU alone will be 28 units, and the total (taking into account the presence of at least 4 torpedoes Mk 48 Mod 7 CBASS for self-defense on racks) will make 50 units only 15% behind. Considering that by the 2025 year, only 7 Yasen-class submarines will be in service with the Russian Navy, and the Americans will have 30-35 submarines "Virginia" of five "blocks" (including several units with new launchers), approximately 2,2-fold lag from the Americans in the shock arsenal (excluding at least 50 carrying the service of "Los Angeles", where the acoustic signature of the version "Improved Los Angeles" corresponds to "Pike-B"). Yes, the situation with the 949A Antey strike submarine cruisers with the new universal ship firing complexes and new universal launchers capable of using Onyx or 3 800МXNNXКК Caliber from 5K from 3K from 14K can be improved for the better for our fleet. CM-1A (225 and 72 missiles, respectively). Back in March 120, the Deputy Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation Yury Borisov announced the modernization of submarine data with the capabilities of the Far Eastern Zvezda plant in March during an interview with RIA "News».

Nevertheless, this will not give a global increase in the combat potential in comparison with the US multi-purpose underwater component, since the design of the Anteyev, as well as their enormous noise, remain. Consequently, modern sonar systems AN / BQQ-10, LAB, as well as shipboard AN / SQQ-89 (V) 12-15 (with ANB / SQS-53C bulb bulb) can capture similar targets at a distance of up to 80 — 100 km even complex hydrological setting. Consequently, in the course of a properly organized large-scale anti-submarine operation in the same North Atlantic with the use of anti-submarine aviation, which tightly arranges radio-hydroacoustic buoys, as well as anti-submarine surface ships, it will be quite easy to track down and destroy such “roaring arsenals”, and therefore rejoicing about the installation of “Calibrov” on 949-th project is not necessary.

And take a look at the number of Oscars II (NATO codification) in the ranks: in the Northern Fleet of the Russian Navy there are only 3, the Pacific Fleet - 2. The situation is not pleasant. It is possible that the situation will radically change with the start of mass production of promising low-noise 5-class anti-ship and anti-submarine rocket carriers of the Husky class, designed to destroy the Virginia, Estuet and Ohio submarines using 91-R1 anti-submarine missiles “Kalib” -PL "with a radius of 50 km and speed on the air trajectory section in 2700 km / h, and for strikes against surface and ground targets by means of XRUMX 3 Zircon and 22X3K Kalibr-PL, respectively . An important feature of these submarines in terms of reducing acoustic visibility is the presence of an open-type water jet propulsion unit (as in Seawolf, Virginia, and Astute), which will significantly reduce the disturbance of the water column from the cavitation effect.

The use of composites-based sound-absorbing materials in the hull cover of the ship is also envisaged, while the most mobile and loud mechanisms of the power plant (steam-turbine plant and the main turbo-gear unit) will be placed on multilevel cushioning platforms of improved design. These design features should turn the Husky into even more dangerous and low-noise underwater hunters than the Virginia Block V. Here are just the prospects for the speedy implementation of the new project of the St. Petersburg Marine Engineering Bureau "Malachite" are today in a state of complete uncertainty, because the start of construction of the head boat is scheduled only for 20-s, while to create a visible advantage in the number of strategic cruise missiles basing will require more 20 — 25 Husky class submarines.

Information sources:
http://svpressa.ru/war21/article/201238/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-339.html
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-856.html
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-338.html
http://forum.militaryparitet.com/viewtopic.php?id=20818
Author:
48 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. dSK
    dSK 29 June 2018 06: 28
    +4
    The main “marine” striking force of the Russian Federation is SFbut in order to get the States, the "main" opponent, he needs to "pass" Norway and England. TF it has an open access to the ocean, and the States can freely “get it”, but it’s such a “wilderness”, neither “cadres” nor “technology”.
    1. Titsen
      Titsen 29 June 2018 07: 22
      +3
      Quote from dsk
      The main “marine” striking force of the Russian Federation is SFbut in order to get the States, the "main" opponent, he needs to "pass" Norway and England. TF it has an open access to the ocean, and the States can freely “get it”, but it’s such a “wilderness”, neither “cadres” nor “technology”.


      Article and kmments from the category everything was gone ....

      Everything is normal - pensioners will throw themselves in a bottle and build everything!
      1. Wild_grey_wolf
        Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 08: 11
        +10
        Quote: Titsen
        Quote from dsk
        The main “marine” striking force of the Russian Federation is SFbut in order to get the States, the "main" opponent, he needs to "pass" Norway and England. TF it has an open access to the ocean, and the States can freely “get it”, but it’s such a “wilderness”, neither “cadres” nor “technology”.


        Article and kmments from the category everything was gone ....

        Everything is normal - pensioners will throw themselves in a bottle and build everything!



        Are you planning to attract the topic of pensioners to each article? I just don’t understand, but what result are you waiting for. Or you have no one to talk to.
        1. NordOst16
          NordOst16 29 June 2018 09: 02
          +2
          On the one hand there is nothing to mention this mention everywhere. On the other hand, this is a rather resonant topic. The author wants to troll rather, but still does not become more fun (((
          1. Wild_grey_wolf
            Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 10: 13
            +6
            The resonant topic must be discussed in a resonant place. But in this way it’s from not a big mind. A kind of Navalonok.
            1. NordOst16
              NordOst16 29 June 2018 11: 37
              +5
              In a resonant place - is it on board the Aurora?))) Oh well.
              I myself agree that Navalny is too small a person. I think only individuals like Lenin and other revolutionaries will be able to change something in the country
              1. Wild_grey_wolf
                Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 12: 46
                +1
                As I understand it, you are one of those who destroys, breaks everything to the ground, brings to poverty a large number of people in order to build what you yourself imagined about beautiful and beautiful.
                You don’t think that there are many other ways a revolutionary pancake.
                Or in the event of a perestroika revolution, devastation, for pensioners, there will generally be a class, it seems to me that this variant of change has already passed several times.

                Maybe now you need to start thinking a little more with your head and somehow softer. The system is viable, they didn’t try to polish it with a sledgehammer.
                Or it’s necessary just like the one above according to the comments "" and pensioners, pensioners, well, pensioners, and pensioners, pensioners "", but inside the echo is heard. . .
                1. NordOst16
                  NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 19
                  +4
                  To build something, you need to destroy the old. And to do something great, you have to pay a big price. In times of crisis, maps change globally and there are people who, by virtue of their qualities, are able to change the course of history. Lenin and other revolutionaries (let's not go into details on whose money (by the way, a very interesting example)) destroyed the old country and on its basis the following leaders were able to build a powerful state and win the war. True, the price was huge (both the price of building a state machine and the price of Victory), but everything is worth the money.
                  It seemed to me that those who were born in the USSR and managed to live part of their conscious life there should be prepared for sacrifices in order to achieve any goal, because they knew what price the Union paid for its achievements. Apparently, under the sunset of the USSR there were no people who were ready to pay a certain price to save their homeland.
                  Well, this is my personal opinion.
                  1. Wild_grey_wolf
                    Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 25
                    +1
                    Well, now they are raising their retirement age. This is the VICTIM of those born in the USSR.

                    Well, I look at your personal opinion is that the rest of the population is also ready to pull along. Good luck with such a bloodthirsty look.

                    It's like you are selling a car for spare parts, but I’m selling an ashtray, I’m selling it to buy a new one, but I didn’t try to clean the ashtray, AND WHAT SO IT HAPPENED. This is approximately the logic of many of today's revolutionaries.
                    1. NordOst16
                      NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 33
                      +4
                      But it was precisely in this way that the USSR was born, so its power was forged.
                      I don’t understand that, everyone wants the power and grandeur of the former USSR, everyone knows how it was built, but nobody wants to do anything. Well, okay, this is just my opinion.
                      1. Wild_grey_wolf
                        Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 37
                        0
                        As you’ve got stuck in your brain to do a sledgehammer, breaking everything around, the majority really do not want to. And to approach wisely is another. Maybe we’ll dig even deeper and take an example of how Russia was born, this is YES I understand. And you grind something.
                        Wake up revolutionary, article about the submarine Navy.
                2. MPN
                  MPN 29 June 2018 13: 20
                  +4
                  Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
                  they didn’t try to work, not to grind, but to grind.

                  And I couldn’t pick up a single word what the government is doing with us ... it turns out they are grinders ... only they remove a thick layer when polishing, it’s not professional or other goals.
                  1. Wild_grey_wolf
                    Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 30
                    +1
                    You are talking about polishing a nuclear submarine from an article and of course write about it.
                    1. MPN
                      MPN 29 June 2018 13: 43
                      +3
                      Of course! And of course I agree with you that to hammer on it with a sledgehammer is blasphemy. laughing We drove through. drinks
          2. Vladimir 5
            Vladimir 5 29 June 2018 12: 23
            -1
            Means of autonomous crewless execution of platforms with weapons have no alternative in the near future, they are gaining ever wider distribution and are replacing conventional means, expanding capabilities. Therefore, nuclear submarines are becoming the mother base of control (possibly delivery) for a number of crewless autonomous weapon carriers. Here along this path to take leaps and bounds, and nothing else. Costly nuclear submarines cease to be carriers of weapons, and only the control center of robotic means of carriers and the use of weapons ... But in a military version, everything is duplicated three times and network-centric ... Work is the sea, “columbus on ships” ... Otherwise, the Eldorado will open others and woe to the lagging "discoverers" ...
      2. smart ass
        smart ass 29 June 2018 11: 36
        +1
        All pensioners from starvation will die and there will be more able-bodied population
  2. Vard
    Vard 29 June 2018 06: 50
    0
    Axes are against the Papuans ... And this is clearly shown by the experience in Syria ...
    1. NordOst16
      NordOst16 29 June 2018 09: 00
      +3
      And C400 and Buki only against civilian airliners?)))
      1. DenZ
        DenZ 29 June 2018 11: 46
        +3
        Quote: NordOst16
        And C400 and Buki only against civilian airliners?)))

        And what are they in Syria that civilian airliners scare away?
        1. NordOst16
          NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 21
          +2
          Yes, the problem is that they were not able to scare away anything.
      2. Vard
        Vard 29 June 2018 12: 44
        +1
        S-200 you mean ...
        1. NordOst16
          NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 23
          +1
          No, it was Buki (like they make up the main grouping of the Syrian air defense forces) that could not prevent the destruction of objects on the territory of Syria. And Russian air defenses that did not cover their ally.
          1. Wild_grey_wolf
            Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 32
            0
            In what sense did you not be able to prevent what and how. Well, maybe not 600 percent of their capabilities, but in Syria they completed the task by 250 percent. Not too big requests for the capricious revolutionary born and tempered in the USSR. Must understand what and why or. . . . . have questions about honesty.
            1. NordOst16
              NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 37
              +1
              Well, American KR destroyed all planned targets in Syria during the "star" raid of Trump.
              1. Wild_grey_wolf
                Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 41
                +1
                Was it you who personally attended and calculated? And the Starry ones you defend could not even show the completed tasks successfully. And the fact that they destroyed, as I understand it, was especially not covered, since it is not a very important object.
                1. NordOst16
                  NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 49
                  +2
                  Well look, this is such an interesting situation. They can say a lot on TV, but only some say that a couple of missiles were shot down, others that shot down more than half. I have a suspicion that n **** are both. For there are no reinforced concrete facts proving the interception of half of the Kyrgyz Republic (I just did not see photos of the collected fragments of all the intercepted Kyrgyz Republic and if there are any, I would gladly look at it) and there is no evidence that all the targets that were planned were destroyed.
                  And even if half of the Kyrgyz Republic was intercepted - their tasks (if you believe the American media (well, why not, I just don’t see the difference between them and our media)) they performed, albeit with losses.
                  1. Wild_grey_wolf
                    Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 55
                    0
                    I repeat once again where the photo and video demonstration is Defender of the Enemy of the Homeland and at the same time inciting to the revolution, certainly not his own, not in his beloved state. Do not be ashamed of that. If everything was successful, everything would be teeming with a demonstration of a successful mission. And so a huge ton of flying in the direction of the alleged object did not form a giant funnel, but damaged. Maybe the task has been completed in your world, though the cost of the building and the image of the country's launched rocket and the rockets themselves are not comparable in the PRICE.
                    1. GibSoN
                      GibSoN 29 June 2018 22: 48
                      +3
                      Friend, calm down already! Really bore already .. Show me where the United States declared an enemy of the motherland? Otherwise, you can already attract for calls .. That is, here, at least, a violation of the rules of the forum! To which, for some reason, it is customary not to respond to VO!
                      1. Wild_grey_wolf
                        Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 23: 27
                        0
                        An interesting person, tires do not read, who forces that. Or they decided to somehow get into the dialogue.
            2. NordOst16
              NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 52
              +1
              Not too big requests for the capricious revolutionary born and tempered in the USSR.
              Well, I didn’t say that I was born in the USSR, but when I saw a flag next to your nickname, I decided that you were from the USSR.
              Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
              Well, maybe not 600 percent of their capabilities, but in Syria they completed the task by 250 percent.

              Well, I just didn’t see any real evidence.
              1. Wild_grey_wolf
                Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 14: 00
                0
                The real evidence is from the USA and I did not see it agree. And the absence of large devastation was not a fact; they would be immediately ringed.

                Quote: NordOst16
                Well, I didn’t say that I was born in the USSR, but when I saw a flag next to your nickname, I decided that you were from the USSR.


                Well then everything is clear with whom I am conducting a dialogue, the topic is closed.
                1. NordOst16
                  NordOst16 29 June 2018 18: 06
                  0
                  Sorry, but okay.
          2. Vard
            Vard 29 June 2018 17: 42
            0
            Sorry, I didn’t understand ... I thought you were hinting at two well-known incidents with passenger aircraft ..
      3. Wild_grey_wolf
        Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 06
        +1
        Ukrainian C 200 and Buki, and it is precisely against civilians. And many more weapons of late.
  3. NordOst16
    NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 36
    0
    Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
    This is approximately the logic of many of today's revolutionaries.

    Such a "silent" revolution was in the 90s and everyone sees what it led to in order to change something - you need to break out everything old and build a new one in its place. It’s like with T90 and T14 an example - how many do not modify T72, it will never be able to achieve the results that T14 achieved simply because the essence is old there.
    1. Wild_grey_wolf
      Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 46
      +1
      Please break at home whatever you want and do not bother others from living please. Neither the 1917 nor the 1990s are needed at all because of the need. Enough to improve the existing. And I didn’t like how the sewer manhole lies; it’s all time to raise the revolution. At home, everything is at home without any problems.
      1. NordOst16
        NordOst16 29 June 2018 14: 01
        +5
        Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
        Enough to improve the existing.

        What to develop? Our government is rotten. It seems to me that in the days of Stalin such managers would have been shot, but nowadays - for years they have been leading (or rather destroying) their enterprises and entire industries.
        As for me, our country needs a new leader who will shake everything, and without a fight the old government will not give up.
        1. Wild_grey_wolf
          Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 14: 04
          +2
          Quote: NordOst16
          Well, I didn’t say that I was born in the USSR, but when I saw a flag next to your nickname, I decided that you were from the USSR.


          Well then everything is clear with whom I am conducting a dialogue, the topic is closed.

          At home, try to put things in order, in the yard, on the street. And then we'll talk about where what and who has rotted and how to solve the issue. Sledgehammer or HEAD.
  4. NordOst16
    NordOst16 29 June 2018 13: 42
    +3
    Wild_grey_wolf,
    And as for me - it is precisely the absence among the USSR leadership of people with iron grip and strong will (and a large number of people who are not ready to defend their homeland at any cost) led to the collapse of the state. I think that only people with an iron willpower who know their purpose and are ready to put everything on the line can build and manage great countries. Unfortunately, these were not and are not available.
    1. Wild_grey_wolf
      Wild_grey_wolf 29 June 2018 13: 58
      +2
      Manage your iron hand at home without any problems and love the country you want. Do not bother to live only to others.
  5. xtur
    xtur 29 June 2018 18: 56
    0
    I have already learned to recognize Damantsev's articles by name - this is the theoretical limit

    The farther the more he slides into some indecent fiction - is it not obvious that nobody will give Damantsev any numbers for detecting submarines in range, and those who have such numbers will never say anything in the world that will allow these numbers to calculate if his own freedom is dear to him.
    And in such circumstances, you can only refer to Putin, because only he has the right to publish top secret information at his own discretion.
    And why the hell to write articles in such conditions that make articles completely pointless even before writing.
  6. Prisoner
    Prisoner 29 June 2018 20: 15
    0
    There was a topic about submarines, so no, it brought a hard "Nordost" and that's it. The Anglo-Saxon-State-Democratic-Banderlog epic eclipsed the analysis of Mr. Damantsev. Darkness and turbidity.
  7. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 29 June 2018 20: 47
    +4
    I read the article, komenty. And I wonder: only Vladimir5 has an attempt to say something in essence ... Damn, where is the site heading? Either pension, or "beautification" are discussed, but in essence - silence. And if the case? American SSGNs are as much a threat as ours for them. Therefore, their combat patrol areas are supervised. Secondly, we have ZGRLS on our database, so the mass launch of the CRBD in 5 minutes will be at the CPRN / PRO KP. In another 2 minutes there will fly a ballistic missile with a dozen BBs to boil the SSBN PLARK. I think in 10 minutes the entire BC will not go on board. Further. Damantsev, of course, is a "great scientist", but not a submariner, and, apparently, not a sailor, otherwise he would know that EM URO is just a "destroyer of a CONTROLLED MISSILE WEAPON" and not a "missile weapon control". And there will be no GTZA on Husky, because they are going to do it in full electric motion, without a "mechanical" power take-off. Etc. It’s a pity I’m far ... From my little note, but you won’t write much from Smart.
    1. Ehanatone
      Ehanatone 30 June 2018 00: 37
      -1
      So write in detail how you get to the laptop, otherwise it turns out:
      - Chef! The mustache is gone: the client is being removed, the plaster is leaving.!
      1. Essex62
        Essex62 30 June 2018 01: 54
        +1
        I support. A lot of technical terms and abbreviations, but in fact, "everything is lost." But ... Objectively, they, who are not enemies, surpass us in quantity, and in some positions and in quality. They did not have complete devastation as we have in 90, for them the creation of new weapons systems is an extremely profitable business. Accordingly, the military-industrial complex of mattresses is not subject to any crises and has no financing restrictions. Just because the printing press is installed on this platform, as it were, the state of Sches, regularly prints candy wrappers in unlimited quantities. Conclusion: we will always lag behind in the current socio-political system, the question of the sovereignty of the national currency is a priority. And it is possible to change this only by fencing off not cut-off barrier from the cut paper destroying our country.
        Personally wild and gray. Do you want to live off not the lives of others? And how can you polish up a mess of lawless mess without resorting to change? Personally, I would agree - it would be a legitimate option, it won’t work out - to the counting machine, in the elections, who is not supposed to be allowed to shoot a cannon shot. As then? And the class struggle is forever, since the creation of the theory of Marxism.
        1. Wild_grey_wolf
          Wild_grey_wolf 30 June 2018 08: 23
          0
          If you write personally, then do it stealthily. Or in the expectation that I will not see. The act is not. . .
        2. Wild_grey_wolf
          Wild_grey_wolf 30 June 2018 08: 26
          +2
          Watching the 90s taught little.
          Personally, you are ready to bear responsibility for the tragedy and poverty of a huge number of the country's population, making the next revolution.
          It's time to learn how to make repairs in the apartment, and not constantly demolish everything to the foundation and rebuild. This is already to schizophrenia. . . . . . and constantly do not justify their incapacity, because WELL DO NOT ALLOW THE SAME, it’s easier to go to BREAK THE HAND. . . . . head must be turned on.
  8. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 30 June 2018 09: 53
    0
    Forever, we lacked the funds to modernize or create new types of weapons, which is happening now. Although in recent years we have significantly modernized and created new weapons, which surprised the West and invested much less in this business compared to the same West. I think that our president will quietly glide over the split in our country, in a society without war, the economy will also begin to gain momentum and God willing we will get out of the crisis caused by the collapse of the USSR