Military Review

European monsters want to compete with the Russian beauty "Armata"

125
There were many new products at the Eurosatori-2018 exhibition, but a strange resonance was caused by a strange armored object called the Euro Main Battle Tank (EMBT), presented by the Franco-German consortium KNDS, founded in 2015 by the German concern Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) and the French Nexter Defense Systems. He reminded a product of German unnatural sexual relations tank “Leopard 2” and the French “Leclerc”, yes, in fact, it is. Unnatural because both objects are males, and not like in the famous ditty of the Great Patriotic War about "the tank fell in love with a tank and drove her to the forest for a walk". He also recalled the work of the famous biotechnologist of the 19th century. Dr. Victor Frankenstein and his historical prototype from the 17th century, who really tried to create a living person from parts of corpses. With a completely predictable result. In this case, the result is about the same.


Here, in general, the process of creating a new car was similar. The EMBT consists of a Leopard hull and a Leclerc tower. Moreover, like Dr. Frankenstein, it was impossible to blind without problems, so the unprotected shoulder of the tower had to be raised, which does not add cadaver security, and it looks strange because of this. In view of the presence of the Leclerc tower, the tank has an automatic 22 shot loader, located in the tower niche. And in view of the presence of the Leopard-2 corps in the nose of the corps there is a supplementary ammunition, the one that most often served as the initiator of the most instantaneous detonations of the ammunition, which the German was famous for in the very first war. The “Frenchman” in the nose also has a supplemental drum on 18 shots, but he is somehow protected, the chances of a colorful fire attraction in the form of fire charges or detonation are lower. On domestic tanks, except for the T-14 and T-90M (CM), there is also a bow storage rack, but it is also not as ephemerally protected as the German cat rack. And it has long been the rule in local wars, where our military participated, not to fill this rack using only AZ / MH and a few extra shots (this is usually enough for a fight, or you can quickly replenish the BC). And, returning to EMBT, most likely, it will turn out to replenish the AZ only by turning the tower back (if something has not been changed there, but it seems that they have not changed anything). On the "Leopard-2" for this you need to turn the tower on board. However, nobody will do it anyway, for this you need to go out or at least hide somewhere - in a small forest, behind a hill or buildings.


Perfectly visible unprotected elevated shoulder strap tower tank




The tank is said to be fully functional and has passed preliminary tests in France and Portugal (whatever French-German developers mean by that), as confirmation there are some shots with it in the field. On the other hand, the housing and the tower themselves did not change significantly, the only question is in their conjugation (electricians and electronics) through a rotating contact device and at the program level. From the possible advantages of EMBT, a more rational and better (presumably) protected Leclerc tower with AZ and a very decent SLA can be suggested, even if it’s much worse than the protected, but more reliable and well-developed Leopard chassis. This, of course, if you forget about the nasal styling, dubious protection and other "virtues" of the German Panzer. The hybrid mass is about 60 t, and this is more than the earlier and later versions of Leclerc (54-58 t) and the most common version of Leopard-2 - 2А4, but less than 2А5 / 2ХXUMX / 6XXXXXXXXXXX.

From the very show, various versions were expressed as to why it was necessary to exhibit this broncade. It was assumed that this is the very promised “answer to the Russians” on the Armata T-14. But the answer would have come out strongly so-so: from the change, as tankers say, "carts", the "Leclerc" will not improve so much to withstand the car of a completely different, revolutionary layout and a different technological level.

Even if you add an 140-mm gun there, once tested on the Leclerc (it’s not known if the Leopard’s case, which had an 140-mm gun with an alien tower, could hold the living thread, on the "native" towers at the time). Another version was that it was supposedly a replacement for "Leopards" proposed for European armies. The fact that this “peacetime tank” needs to be replaced, which looks great in parades and competitions but poorly fit for war, is no longer denied. Moreover, the modernization options being rolled out by KMW are already beginning to cease to interest customers.

So, the other day, for a long time thinking about how to modernize all their 36 (quite a normal fleet for a significant part of NATO armies, by the way) “Leopard-2А4NO” the Norwegians decided not to upgrade anything. The reason is: almost no sense from modernization even to the promising "Leopard-2A7V", but a lot of money is needed. After 2025, the Norwegians want to consider proposals for the purchase of new tanks, but only where will they get them? Neither the Americans nor the Europeans did not even plan new tanks before the 2030s. Will they buy from Russia? Or South Korea? Also unlikely.

The third version: this is supposedly a tank for Saudis who are disappointed with the Abrams of the M1A2S and their losses in Yemen. Although we should be disappointed with our heads and hands - in this case, T-14 would hardly have helped, and Abrams, against the background of everything else, showed itself relatively well. But at the same time, they say, the Saudis liked the emirate “Leclerc-Tropic” (differing from the original ones mainly in replacing the Hyperbar’s desert engines with German MV883 diesel engines), but they wanted a supposedly more reliable and simple chassis.

But this version also has nothing to do with reality, although one cannot, of course, exclude that all new and brilliant as forty to the nest being dragged towards themselves, Saudi princes and other flood shiikhs will not click emotionally with their fingers and will not require the manufacturer to sell such tanks to them , yes more.

The fourth, and undoubtedly the correct version is the following: it is just a demonstrator of technology, and, more precisely, the possibilities of the newly formed consortium KNDS to at least do something together. They have been developing this since the beginning of 2017, and this EMBT is an initiative project, without government funding. And, as KMW employees say, they will not produce this tank (they also add that "Leopard-2" is better, without specifying what it is better, although it is clear that "Leclerc" is better than this strange creation). At the same time, attempts to push this still-born monster for export to rich guys in burnous will not be refused.



Well, well, they created a “picture for the exhibition”, “a show-stopper”, mastered the means, showed that it seems that it is not for nothing that their pants are rubbed - then what? And then they will try to develop together the same “answer” to our T-14.

The program, however, is not shaky or shaky, and the dates are constantly shifting. For example, 19 June 2018, German Defense Minister Ursula von der Lyayen and her French counterpart Florence Parley signed a memorandum of understanding regarding the implementation of a joint program to develop a promising main tank Main Ground Combat System (MGCS). A similar memorandum was also signed on the future Next Generation Weapon System, NGWS combat aircraft (as part of the Future Combat Air System, FCAS). But the plane is not the topic of this article.

Under the MGCS program, it is planned to create a new main tank to replace the "Leopard-2" and "Leclerc". According to the document, the technology demonstration phase will be launched in 2019 year. They expect that tactical and technical requirements (TTT) for the tank will be formulated as much as the 2024 year. The layouts, accordingly, will appear no earlier than 2025-2026, then the running layouts, prototypes will appear. And this tank will be adopted as streamlined in the document, "in the middle of the 2030-x." Previously, the dates were called the following: 2028, then 2030. Now here's the 2035, and there, probably, before the 2040 is within reach.

The program will be led by the German side (which already infuriates the French). What will be the layout of the tank, it is not clear to the developers themselves, but various sources report that it is very likely to have a low-profile turret with rendered armament (something like the Rebel in Soviet obs.) With the crew below, under the turret, or uninhabited fighting compartment and crew in a separate reserved control compartment ("capsule"), that is, the layout is about. 490 (T-195) or vol. 95 (T-148) Armata.

At one time, all of these layout options were considered by the French, even when they were developing Leclerc, but took the conservative path, realizing that they would not pull the revolutionary layout. We tried something similar in Germany. But in the USSR, having tried different variations of the classic layout, we realized that it had exhausted itself, and eventually came first to different variations of Kharkiv facilities (477 / 477А, 477А1, etc.), where the separation of the crew from the ammunition and armament had not yet been reached completely, then to Leningrad about. 299, which was never built as a whole sample, and to Nizhny Tagil about. 195 and now - about. 148 (T-14), combining the "modular ideas" of developers about. 299, and layout about. 195.

Will the French with the Germans be able to give birth to a rival today through 15 for years (I emphasize) Armata? Theoretically yes. And theoretically, not shaky or shaky will be able to produce it. The price tag of the product, of course, will not be comparable with the prices of vol. 148 / 149 in the currently ordered party for military trials (as you know, a set of essentially a heavy tank regiment of three battalions of tanks and TBMP was ordered), and even more so with the prices in this series. Rather, even the Japanese would envy this price tag, making the “cheap” 6-ton low-armored “Type-44” samovar with 10 tempos, just 12 million for a tank. But for this you need to create it. And there are many pitfalls, including one of the main joint development. The French and West Germans have already tried to create a joint tank, and the United States and the Federal Republic of Germany — and all these consortia and alliances were quickly forgotten, like a bad dream. Let us recall at least MBT-70 (in Germany, KPz-70) and subsequent events, which, after many years, led to the creation of Abrams and Leopard-2. Ambitions, dragging the blankets and pushing problems onto the co-developer, different levels of competence, different visions of problems and their solutions are the very "minefields" on the way of joint programs that are much worse than the mythical battalions of Russian hackers using the Internet to smear door handles with poisoned buckwheat.

The fact that the Americans to the middle of 30-x "give birth" to a new tank, you can believe. But the Germans and the French, most likely, in 5-8 years, they will understand that “we are strangers to each other, and we need to be friends” and will go on developing tanks separately. Although, on the other hand, separately, they will do it even longer, and it is not known whether the development will be crowned with success, which, of course, will keep some ambitions in check.

But it is too early for Russia to look at these attempts closely, and there is no time: for the time being, it is necessary to bring the “Armat” to mass production. The process is proceeding successfully, albeit more slowly than planned, and the tank will undoubtedly soon be brought to a successful completion of state and military tests and acceptance into service and mass production. “Armata” due to its design and layout has a huge modernization potential. The modular structure allows you to quickly change the booking and even the armament on the already released tanks. So let's see who wins!
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  1. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 27 June 2018 06: 00
    +38
    European monsters want to compete with the Russian beauty "Armata"
    a moot point, "beauty", "Armata" can be called drunk ...
    1. ramzes1776
      ramzes1776 27 June 2018 07: 14
      +14
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      European monsters want to compete with the Russian beauty "Armata"
      a moot point, "beauty", "Armata" can be called drunk ...

      The T-90M will be much prettier than Almaty and other competitors.
    2. iouris
      iouris 27 June 2018 12: 06
      +14
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      "beauty", "Armata" can be called drunk ...

      The Russian tank "Armata" or "Terminator" could be called only after deep binge.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 27 June 2018 21: 15
        +4
        Is aroma not a stopper show in the opinion of the author? Somehow, from the very 2014 parade, they have not been seen or heard, everyone is experiencing. And Abramov has more than 2 thousands of Americans.
      2. Hadastus
        Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 46
        +2
        Armata is a good word, one of the medieval Russian names for guns. And besides, the root of the Latin word is arma (armor, weapon, army) - which adequately reflects the Roman context of Russian history.
        1. Maksus
          Maksus 28 June 2018 07: 08
          +5
          Does Russia have a Roman context in history? Maybe we still in Swahili take the name for the APC, that would show a deep connection with Africa?
          1. your1970
            your1970 28 June 2018 07: 36
            +3
            formula, "Third Rome" did not hear, no?
            1. Maksus
              Maksus 28 June 2018 14: 34
              +2
              Funny, appreciated. Here are just a third Rome, no one but our autocrats did not consider and does not consider. And NOTHING connects us with the real Rome, we have ties with Byzantium and Constantinople, which were not the second Rome either, but were just part of the Roman Empire, and after the Eastern Roman. And there is no need to drag the real Rome here.
              Let's call Washington the fourth Babylon, no matter what.
          2. Hadastus
            Hadastus 28 June 2018 12: 28
            +6
            The Roman context of history, through the Second Rome-Byzantium, generally defined both the essence and history of Russia. "Moscow-Third Rome" everyone heard. But besides this:

            - The title of the Russian tsar was tracing paper from the Roman - “tsar” is a Slavicized “Caesar”.

            - Coat of arms of Russia - Two-headed Eagle - the actual tracing-paper of the Byzantine imperial coat of arms, which passed to Russia, after the marriage of Ivan III the Great, to Sofia Paleolog, one of the last heirs to the Byzantine throne

            -In "The Tale of the Princes of Vladimir" - a practical official ideological document of the Russian Centralized State - it was explicitly stated that the ancestor of the Russian princes Rurikovich is, the brother of the first Roman emperor Caesar Augustus - Prus. This is of course a heraldic myth, but then they believed in it and considered it true. Therefore, it is not surprising that with what aristocratic arrogance Ivan IV denied equality to the Swedish king Johan, calling him a dirty peasant without a clan and tribe.

            - The tsarist insignia of the Moscow Grand Dukes and the Monomakh cap was presented by the Byzantine emperor Konstantin Bagryanorodny. This is also a historical myth, but then they believed in it and considered it the official position of the authorities.

            - The title of the great Moscow princes and tsars of “All Russia” is a tracing-paper of the Byzantine imperial nomenclature to Russia. Emperor Ioann Kontakuzin, so called the Moscow Grand Duke Simeon the Proud ("Rex Pasios Rosii"), which allowed Moscow to become an imperial center and begin the policy of collecting Russian lands.

            - The title of Moscow Grand Dukes and Tsars - “Sovereign” (and “Gospodar”) is a tracing-paper from the late Roman and Early Byzantine name the emperor - “Dominus”.

            - The title of Moscow Grand Dukes and Tsars - The autocrat is a tracing-paper from the late Byzantine name the emperor - "Autocrat"

            - Russia, as a besieged fortress and the only Orthodox kingdom in the world, is a tracing-stone of the Byzantine ideology - Byzantium - as the only Orthodox kingdom in the circle of enemies.

            - Byzantium gave Russia the most Orthodox Orthodox Church, which has direct continuity even with the Roman Church of Constantine since the late Roman Empire.

            - Russian medieval culture is a direct continuation of the Byzantine Orthodox, with a literary and iconographic tradition.

            - In addition, the Byzantine administration was sovereign so far, forbidding the Kiev Metropolitanate to split up and go under the Polish-Lithuanian Lviv, it directly declared that the Orthodox parishes of Little Russia are subordinate to the Kiev Metropolis, the center of which was just transferred to Moscow.

            As a result, the dying Byzantium, as a maternal civilization, in every possible way contributed to the creation in Russia of a powerful and independent imperial center led by Moscow and really contributed to the creation of Russia as the cultural, ideological successor of Byzantium, the "Third Rome".

            - Therefore, it is not surprising what kind of pain and hatred the attitude of Europe in the Crimean War echoed in Russian society was considered to be real meanness and betrayal that did not allow Russia to return Constantinople rightfully belonging to it.

            The created Russia, as the Russian Empire / Kingdom, became the Second Empire of Europe - after the Holy Roman Empire - and has the same ideological legacy. Just as the Holy Roman Empire inherited the West Roman Empire / Roman Charlemagne, so Russia inherited the East Roman Empire / Byzantium.

            The Austrian, British, French, Belgian, German empires of Europe were created later as a continuation of the barbarian kingdoms, and did not have that ideological sacred antique / post-Roman inheritance.
            1. -Pollux
              -Pollux 28 June 2018 14: 20
              0
              Quote: Hastatus
              - The title of the Russian tsar was tracing paper from the Roman - “tsar” is a Slavicized “Caesar”.

              Maybe the opposite? They borrowed from us and not we from them?
              Quote: Hastatus
              - The title of Moscow Grand Dukes and Tsars - The autocrat is a tracing-paper from the late Byzantine name the emperor - "Autocrat"

              And all that "we" borrowed from "them"! And you yourself could not come up with? If they had borrowed, then it would have been "autocrat" and not "autocrat"
              1. Hadastus
                Hadastus 29 June 2018 12: 45
                +3
                "They borrowed from us" ??? Are you "Novokhronolodets"? Lol

                Russia was culturally and ideologically a continuation of Byzantium, so the borrowing is not surprising, moreover, it was reasonably proud of it. Russia has preserved much that was in the destroyed Byzantium, Second Rome.
                1. -Pollux
                  -Pollux 29 June 2018 12: 56
                  0
                  Quote: Hastatus
                  "They borrowed from us" ???

                  Caesar is the Russian word converted to the European style, Tsar.
                  Quote: Hastatus
                  Are you "Novokhronolodets"? Lol

                  Lol is your verbal diarrhea.
                  Quote: Hastatus
                  Russia was culturally and ideologically a continuation of Byzantium

                  And how did you know that? From German historians! This is lol when the Russians study their history from the "works" of German pseudo-historians.
                  Quote: Hastatus
                  so the borrowing is not surprising, moreover, it was reasonably proud of it

                  And there is nothing to be proud of.
                  Quote: Hastatus
                  Russia has preserved much that was in the destroyed Byzantium, Second Rome.

                  Who saw this "Byzantium"? It was simply invented when rewriting history.
                  1. Hadastus
                    Hadastus 29 June 2018 13: 30
                    +4
                    Ahaha, lest your masterpieces be lost, we shall knock out this heresy in granite, so that the descendants have fun:
                    Caesar is a Russian word converted to the European style Tsar
                    And how did you know that? From German historians! This is lol when the Russians study their history from the "works" of German pseudo-historians.
                    Who saw this "Byzantium"? She was just made up when rewriting a story
                    .
                    Well, everything is clear, the diagnosis is a newcomer. However, there is someone else who believes in this - in 2Q18. Lol))

                    And this, moreover, when the entire historical (source, methodological, archaeological, paleographic) bibliography - in FREE access - I do not want to self-educate. Yes, you surprised me, I thought, they shot the novokhronolazhs back in zero when the Moscow State University released a whole shaft of Anti-Fomenko collections, but they turn out to be there, there are still shots in Russia))
                    1. -Pollux
                      -Pollux 29 June 2018 13: 40
                      0
                      Quote: Hastatus
                      Well, everything is clear, the diagnosis is a newcomer.

                      This is when there is nothing to say - is it necessary to insult the interlocutor?
                      For your information, the Novokhronolozhnians, they are Fomenkovists, believe in all this nonsense, but I don’t believe the historians either new or old, because their methods of “cognition” are unscientific.
                      1. Hadastus
                        Hadastus 29 June 2018 14: 16
                        +2
                        Regarding the insult, leave your hypocrisy, because you just insulted me in a letter, calling it a “hoaxer”. Publicly, the spirit was not enough for fear of a ban, yes. But the mouse is not scary, Nuno. Such orthodox Jews are embarrassed even by Orthodox Jews)

                        Not a single historian (that is, ALL educated historians) who graduated from the Faculty of History and is associated with the Academy of Sciences - will never support the ravings of the New Martyrs. It is a fact.

                        And the epithet "novokhronolozhets" is not an insult, but a well-established humorous labeling of Fomenko adherents, due to their absolute clinical inadequacy, which by the way can be seen in your example, dear.

                        My advice to you, as a good doctor to an unfortunate patient, is taken from the network and read scientific historical literature - textbooks on methodology, archeology, paleography, historiography, auxiliary historical disciplines. They, once again I personally repeat for you - in FREE access.
          3. -Pollux
            -Pollux 28 June 2018 14: 14
            0
            Quote: Maksus
            Maybe we still in Swahili take the name for the APC, that would show a deep connection with Africa?

            The Latin roots of the word "armata" are just speculation.
            1. Maksus
              Maksus 29 June 2018 21: 55
              +1
              And Caesar how treasonable is our king - what is this? I’m wondering, do you think Christianity was also borrowed from us? Or maybe they invented gunpowder in Tambov?
              1. -Pollux
                -Pollux 30 June 2018 17: 35
                0
                Quote: Maksus
                I’m wondering, do you think Christianity was also borrowed from us?

                Orthodoxy, not Christianity.
                Quote: Maksus
                Or maybe they invented gunpowder in Tambov?

                Well, certainly not in China. Gunpowder was invented in China, most likely it is true, but here where this China was, no one knows or does not want to talk, maybe in Tambov - who knows?
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: Pollux
                  Well, certainly not in China. Gunpowder was invented in China, most likely it is true, but here where this China was, no one knows or does not want to talk, maybe in Tambov - who knows?

                  I give a hint "the very China" was where China Town is now)))))
                  Truly - the madness of the adherents of Fomenko knows no boundaries and shame, just like their ignorance)))
    3. Albert1988
      Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 37
      +1
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      a moot point, "beauty", "Armata" can be called drunk ...

      As well as the T-34 and IS-2 and most real combat vehicles. Or do you measure the tank by the standards of sports cars? Then you should go to the late Fed Porsche and his "cats" - we all know how they all finished.
      A beautiful tank is one that performs the functions assigned to it as well as possible, and how it looks at the same time is not just the 10th, but the 100500th, if outwardly it is like a piece of g ... a, but reliable in operation and It has excellent characteristics - it is unrealistically beautiful.
  2. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman 27 June 2018 08: 26
    +13
    The T-90 is the final masterpiece of the classic lineup, and its beautiful completion! Of course, they will go further, such as "Almaty." In addition to the safety of the crew, this lineup is very convenient for the development of a robot tank. And this, alas, is no longer a fantasy, but a menacingly impending tomorrow, because its survivability, subject to bringing all control systems to a working level, will increase significantly compared to a conventional tank! And this, you must agree, is very significant, and a very serious application for tomorrow!
    1. Hadastus
      Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 51
      +10
      Yes, among the classic-built T-72 and T-90 tanks are especially beautiful - low, fiercely angled and taut with a dominant huge gun, everything in appearance speaks of predation. This is not some Western barn rover, overloaded with a fat-assed penguin like Abrams. Russian tank looks like a hungry and evil wolf - Fenrir.
    2. Real russian
      Real russian 29 June 2018 19: 43
      +1
      Quote: sib.ataman
      The T-90 is the final masterpiece of the classic lineup,
      - in the history of world tank building, this layout entered as a "tower-waving".
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 34
        +1
        Quote: Real Russian
        - in the history of world tank building, this layout entered as a "tower-waving".

        I will disappoint you a little, but if any tank is given to an armless or having hands not from the shoulders, but from the Muscle Gletoeos, the effect will be one. So at the same Saudi Abrash if it doesn’t toss a tower, then at least it throws its aft niche, and a flare-up curtain that flies inside, spreads the crew on the walls and gun)))
  3. Totah155
    Totah155 27 June 2018 08: 38
    +6
    And many saw her, this Armata?
    Is she in the army?
    1. cariperpaint
      cariperpaint 27 June 2018 11: 48
      +6
      Enough for military tests)
    2. Vyacheslav_2
      Vyacheslav_2 28 June 2018 16: 25
      +1
      The 90th series, too, saw little. Until the troops of the Sars almost blew up the car. Then they talked about good growths.
  4. Donald72
    Donald72 27 June 2018 08: 54
    +11
    I could be mistaken, but suspecting that for the crew of the tank into which the projectile was pritelno do not give a damn about how erotic their car looks. Duma they are more interested in penetrating or not.
    1. sapporo1959
      sapporo1959 27 June 2018 22: 56
      +1
      The same here is an interesting point that a driver type mechanic with a joystick controls the rudders there .. And if the joystick falls out of the hands of a projectile, then where will this capsule go ..?
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 39
        +1
        Quote: sapporo1959
        And if the joystick falls out of the hands of a shell, then where will this capsule go ..?

        If, from a projectile impact, the driver entered the control joystick from - on .. such a driver!
  5. Vol4ara
    Vol4ara 27 June 2018 08: 58
    +2
    All this is certainly good, but I think that in order to cope with 5 beautiful rebars, 10 abrams will be enough, and the amers will have enough abrams, and the cat will cry for us. But by and large, everything is decided by the tactics of warfare, if it is led by you, then a hundred armatures will not save you
    1. cariperpaint
      cariperpaint 27 June 2018 11: 44
      +6
      C'mon ?!))) these 10 abrams where can they win? In the simulator?))) It reached the point of absurdity that now roads and bridges in Europe are not suitable for them) what's next? Fuel for them will special plants do?)))
    2. Vadim Kurbatov
      Vadim Kurbatov 27 June 2018 11: 45
      +2
      from 3 to 5 thousand in total, and then of the order of 2.5-3 thousand it’s not even abrams, but ordinary M1 with a 105 mm gun
    3. your1970
      your1970 28 June 2018 07: 38
      +3
      Yeah, and all 2000 Abrams are in Europe near our border, waiting - when they can slurp OUR diesel fuel and poison it ......
    4. Albert1988
      Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 41
      +1
      Quote: Vol4ara
      All this is certainly good, but I think that in order to cope with 5 beautiful armatures, 10 abrams will be enough

      Ohh, that's enough if the armata will be without a crew, and then - if the on-board computer will function and KAZ will be active, the Abrash will have to make at least 5-6 shots. in order to first knock out all the charges of "afghanite" (at least from one side), and then to break through the DZ ...
  6. Dimka75
    Dimka75 27 June 2018 09: 15
    +13
    article or banter or stupidity, did not understand
    beauty and the beast .. the bronekadavr ... the guys in the burnus ... the flood sheiks ... the kadavr ... the ditties ... the samovar ... buckwheat ..

    and other cheers

    not the level of "analytics"
    1. MPN
      MPN 27 June 2018 13: 09
      +5
      Quote: Dimka75
      article or banter or stupidity, did not understand
      Positioned as analytics, only here
      Of the possible advantages of EMBT, a more rational and better (presumably) Leclerc’s defended tower with AZ and a very decent SLA, even if much worse protected, but more reliable and mastered chassis "Leopard".
      Here for some reason, exactly the opposite. Leclerc is worse protected and this is how the Norwegians proved when choosing a tank for themselves. The tower was taken because of the SLA and the best equipment for interacting with other units, such as exchanging information and analyzing and interacting ... In other matters, it was originally a clever idea to just transfer the equipment to Leopard, but something did not grow together, they changed the tower ... So , that the analysis is so-so, not very reliable, apparently the author of the materials was not enough ...
  7. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 27 June 2018 09: 47
    +10
    In terms of sensors, optics, guns, armor, Western tanks are no worse, we only approached such protection with Armata. T-90, with all the pros, is limited by its chassis and engine. Leo and Abramsy are initially load-bearing and make it relatively easy to upgrade old versions to new ones on booking. And in the event of a major conflict, the entire burden will not even fall on the T-90, but on different versions of the T-72 and T-80. So rather, you need to bring to mind the version of the T-90SM (M) and put this tower on old tanks during modernization. and force the installation of KAZ systems on tanks.
    1. cariperpaint
      cariperpaint 27 June 2018 11: 46
      +1
      All this is more correct. Our machines simply have one huge advantage called our territory. There is no other place where our cars may clash and there are none)))
    2. -Pollux
      -Pollux 27 June 2018 21: 36
      +3
      Quote: Zaurbek
      In terms of sensors, optics, guns, armor, Western tanks are no worse, we only approached such protection with Armata.

      This is not just controversial, it is not true.
      Quote: Zaurbek
      Leo and Abramsy are initially load-bearing and make it relatively easy to upgrade old versions to new ones on booking.

      They have more reserved volume - which is not buzzing - this reduces the level of protection.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 27 June 2018 23: 15
        0
        Which sensors do we have better? They have a tank (Leo and A1) stupidly more powerful and heavier (armored) times 1,5 and the armored volume allows the crew to stay inside the tank longer under armor protection.
        1. Hadastus
          Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 23
          +4
          There is more weight and an armored volume; in real armor, 1,5 times there is no advantage. Abrams is generally the reincarnation of the fascist Panther - with powerful frontal armor, everything else is cardboard.
        2. your1970
          your1970 28 June 2018 07: 53
          +3
          Quote: Zaurbek
          They have a tank (Leo and A1) stupidly more powerful and heavier (armored) times in 1,5
          -and this violates the logistics in general ... according to THEIR calculations, up to 30% of bridges in Europe cannot be used by weight restrictions, up to 40% of tunnels and up to 20% of stations due to overall limitations .... and to sit for long tank in peacetime on its territory, not at all scary
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 28 June 2018 10: 37
            0
            .... and the protection of the tank and crew in local conflicts increases, as does the convenience of finding the crew in the car. And why, then, does Armat 7 have a roller chassis? It is clearly made for the future, and there will be the same 60tn.
            1. your1970
              your1970 28 June 2018 12: 46
              +1
              before local conflicts still need to bring these tanks ....
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 28 June 2018 13: 27
                0
                Well, they’ve delivered it ....
                1. -Pollux
                  -Pollux 28 June 2018 14: 13
                  +1
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  Well, they’ve delivered it ....

                  It is not only a matter of transportation. For example, tanks need to be refueled. And where you have enough fuel for two leopards2, the same fuel will be enough for three armats or four T-90s.
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 28 June 2018 14: 31
                    0
                    Well, not a fact ....

                    The reality is that a modern tank with all the "goodies" will weigh at least 55 tons, for this, 1500 hp engines are needed. And in the assault versions, its mass will increase to 65-70tn.
                    1. -Pollux
                      -Pollux 28 June 2018 14: 44
                      +1
                      Quote: Zaurbek
                      The reality is that a modern tank with all the "goodies" will weigh at least 55 tons, for this, 1500 hp engines are needed. And in the assault versions, its mass will increase to 65-70tn.

                      For nothing these your fantasies are real tanks and their mass is known. For example, the T-90 weighs 46 tons, and not 55, and as the Syrian experience showed, it holds a great blow, unlike the Leopard.
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 28 June 2018 14: 56
                        0
                        Where do they keep the punch?
                        On the forehead, the forehead of the tower with DZ - yes they keep it! To the side - no, they don’t hold. A lot of the T-90 on the sides of the DZ - not a lot. Back is protected - no is not protected. And compare this data with Abrams. Especially with the latest versions of it. About optics, SLAs, communications, air conditioning. you can just be silent and envy. You can compare the penetration of BOPS. Something close to the upgraded Abrams and Leo2A5-7 - T-90SM (M), but he no longer has the carrying capacity to install additional equipment and additional armor. This is the ultimate mass. And the competitors initially 7 rink chassis and 1500hp motors.
                      2. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 28 June 2018 14: 58
                        0
                        According to the publication, the government’s T-90 tank entered the battle with the T-72. One of the shots with a caliber projectile struck the left side of the Islamist machine, provoking detonation of the ammunition, which led to the complete destruction of the T-90. Also, as a result of a powerful explosion, the entire crew died.

                        On September 19, it was reported that Syrian troops were able to repel the Islamist offensive north of the city of Hama. Terrorists tried to capture a number of villages in which security forces had previously entrenched.
                2. your1970
                  your1970 29 June 2018 07: 16
                  0
                  how much time will it take for the United States to bring all its Abrams to Europe? and then transfer it across Europe to our borders, taking into account oversized goods?
                  and to bring 100 pieces to Africa, knowingly about the lack of resistance, a simple matter ..
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 29 June 2018 08: 09
                    +1
                    The United States does not have so many tanks that would conduct ground operations with us, but there are many times more helicopters and attack helicopters. Like tactical aviation. The armada of the USSR was calculated to reach the English Channel. Then this was the only answer to the use of nuclear weapons in the USSR (we urgently lacked delivery vehicles). Now we do not need to march to the English Channel. But the urgent problem is local wars, where tankers should not die from grenade launchers and land mines and ATGMs (which appeared in Syria in such a cliché as nowhere). ATGM in each subsequent conflict will only increase in quantity. That's why we need both heavy tanks and heavy infantry fighting vehicles.
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 46
                      +1
                      Quote: Zaurbek
                      . But the urgent problem is local wars, where tankers should not die from grenade launchers and land mines and ATGMs (which appeared in Syria in such a cliché as nowhere). ATGM in each subsequent conflict will only increase in quantity. That's why we need both heavy tanks and heavy infantry fighting vehicles.

                      The T-90 felt quite well from something in Syria - only 2 (!) Cars were lost, and that was due to their being left by the crew! Both were captured by igil - one then destroyed by our aircraft, and the second was shot down aboard by an old T-72 SAA due to the curvature of the Babakh "tankers"
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 31 July 2018 15: 38
                        0
                        There were 20 of them there .... And any 152mm ATGM is a deadly threat and after their appearance the mass of foreign tanks increased from 50 tons to 65 tons .... precisely due to the protection of the sides and rear of the vehicle.
                      2. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 31 July 2018 18: 23
                        +1
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        There were 20 of them there ...

                        20 pieces - quite a commodity quantity - statistics can be collected, especially considering that they were in the thick of it.

                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        And any 152mm ATGM poses a mortal threat

                        Ohh, and that is why the T-90 perfectly survived the camera hit - direct to the forehead section of an uncoated DZ 152 mm TOU ATGM ...
                        You first look at the materiel before writing this!

                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        after their appearance, the mass of foreign tanks increased from 50 tons to 65 tons .... precisely due to the protection of the sides and rear of the machine.

                        I’ll tell you a secret - but the sides and stern are exactly the same as the cardboard there, like the T-90))))) The mass increased due to hanging overdig passive armor on the forehead, even the armor of the sides of the tower there is very, very modest - look at the picture - you can clearly see the armor of the side of the tower at the abrasha
            2. Albert1988
              Albert1988 31 July 2018 13: 44
              +1
              Quote: Zaurbek
              ... and the protection of the tank and crew in local conflicts increases, as does the convenience of finding the crew in the car. And why, then, does Armat 7 have a roller chassis? It is clearly made for the future, and there will be the same 60tn.

              Trite - on the basis of Armata, NOT only tanks are being built - also BMPs, ARVs, in the future self-propelled guns, and even in the longer term - tanks with 152 mm guns.
              And the terminal upgrades of our "teshes" like the same T-90SM are already quite quite at the level of Western tanks both in terms of sights and security.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 31 July 2018 15: 42
                0
                On the forehead, he is a defender as well as competitors, in the sides and backside worse, communication is worse, optics are worse, the cannon in power and penetration and the LMS only on the T90CM version caught up with the modern versions of Leo2A7 and Abrams. And the maximum weight of the T-90SM for this 6-roller platform and the margin of diesel power are no longer there. And KAZ has not even been put on it yet.
                1. Albert1988
                  Albert1988 31 July 2018 18: 32
                  +1
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  In the forehead, he is a defender just like competitors

                  It's better. Dear, it’s better - because they increased passive armor there and DZ a new “relic” covers everything that is possible and impossible too.

                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  in the sides and back worse, the connection is worse

                  Frank dis - sides and backs of our cars are exactly the same cardboard and plywood as the western ones, and the T-90AM (SM - in the export version) sides are covered with very decent screens with the same DZ "relic" - so from the sides it protected at the level of the latest modifications of western cars just as yet not gone to the masses. And the sides of the tower he also DZ anti-tandem hung - mom do not cry! By the way, in the tower, the protection of the upper hemisphere also increased quite well.
                  By the way, T-90AM added AZ additional protection, which well reduces the probability of turret throwing.

                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  communication is worse, optics are worse

                  Have you decided to set a record for the level of delirium or ignorance? The connection is normal, the optics we have are NOT worse than those of Western cars, the only thing that is not up to par right now is the matrices for thermal imagers, but nobody can get around the Franks here - neither teutons, nor exceptional ones, so it’s possible only by this parameter there will be a slight lag, unless, of course, counterfeit French matrices do not stand on the last 90th. Koi we are actively buying on the left channels)))

                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  and T90SM caught up with modern versions of Leo2A7 and Abrams.

                  Not only caught up, but also created a very good competitor to them.

                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  And the maximum weight of the T-90SM for this 6-roller platform and the margin of diesel power are no longer there.


                  A diesel engine there is 1280 bald spots - so it pulls without loss of dynamic characteristics, but yes - the mass is already limiting, although for Western animals - the mass just the same - has already reached the limit, from which the larger caliber is no longer pushed.

                  So the T-90AM at the moment is a very good car for us, and there will already be a T-14 for replacement in the future.
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 31 July 2018 19: 26
                    0
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT8HmWw8WrQ&t
                    = 322s

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1Mxs6AmeRg

                    at the household level
                    1. Albert1988
                      Albert1988 31 July 2018 22: 15
                      +1
                      So what? Old videos talk about things that are already well-known to everyone, and most importantly, they don’t refute what I said))))
                      The only thing where we are now seriously lagging behind Western tanks - this is according to the BOPs - we simply stood idle throughout the 90s and did not develop anything new, while the same yenks actively painted a new generation of BOPs during this period and then in early 2000 they put it into production - here we have to catch up with it, no longer in terms of developments, but in terms of the production of a sufficient number of them.
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 1 August 2018 12: 01
                        0
                        Western tanks initially have 7 rink chassis, which allows continuous improvement of reservations with an increase in weight .... The T-90 has reached its limit on carrying capacity ... therefore they moved to Armata ... and the west continues to modernize old equipment, remaining on spearhead of progress.
                      2. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 1 August 2018 20: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        Western tanks initially have 7 rink chassis, which allows continuous improvement of booking with increasing weight ....

                        Have, just from that? They have already used up all their potential - there’s nowhere to continue to get heavier, it’s not for nothing that the Americans openly started talking about the need to radically reduce the weight of equipment.

                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        The T-90 reached its limit on payload ...

                        Reached - no one argues with this - but today its modernization is a very good solution, and there is an armata for tomorrow, so that until the armature is brought to mind and the modernized T-90 will serve.

                        Quote: Zaurbek
                        and the west continues to modernize old technology, remaining at the forefront of progress.

                        Yes, they’re not on the cutting edge - they’re at a complete dead end, because they can’t push anything radically new anymore - EVERYTHING, the end, you can’t hang up anymore - the chassis can’t stand it, and the machines need to be transported, and they have to move somehow. So there’s no way to radically strengthen anything there either on the abrash or on the leo.
        3. -Pollux
          -Pollux 28 June 2018 14: 09
          +3
          Quote: Zaurbek
          Which sensors do we have better?

          I will not argue about sensors, a difficult topic for a layman.
          Quote: Zaurbek
          They have a tank (Leo and A1) stupidly more powerful and heavier (armored) times 1,5 and the armored volume allows the crew to stay inside the tank longer under armor protection.

          Apparently you don’t think anything at all in tanks. Dependence is inverse and not direct, the larger the reserve volume, the worse the tank is protected.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 28 June 2018 14: 44
            0
            They do not have AZ, here is the over-armored volume and higher. In comfortable conditions, the crew can stay there longer, respectively, and losses will also decrease.
            For us amateurs;
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT8HmWw8WrQ
            1. -Pollux
              -Pollux 28 June 2018 21: 34
              +1
              Quote: Zaurbek
              They do not have AZ, here is the over-armored volume and higher. In comfortable conditions, the crew can stay there longer, respectively, and losses will also decrease.

              Losses will increase due to the lower level of protection of the tank, the extra armored volume - equally - the worst protection of the tank.
              In peacetime, it’s certainly nice to serve in a more comfortable tank, but it’s better to be in a less comfortable but better protected tank on the battlefield. not for nothing they say that it is better to serve in Western tanks, and to fight in Russian.
              1. Zaurbek
                Zaurbek 29 June 2018 08: 10
                0
                You confuse global wars with local ones.
                1. -Pollux
                  -Pollux 29 June 2018 12: 39
                  +1
                  Quote: Zaurbek
                  You confuse global wars with local ones.

                  How does the nature of war affect the security of a combat vehicle?
                  1. Zaurbek
                    Zaurbek 29 June 2018 13: 45
                    0
                    So that in combined arms combat some factors and damaging elements, and in local ones others (as well as the treatment of residents and partisans in occupied regions). Accordingly, the affected areas and their nature are different ....
                    1. -Pollux
                      -Pollux 29 June 2018 13: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Zaurbek
                      So that in combined arms combat some factors and damaging elements, while in local ones

                      What is the difference if it was trite about the thickness of the armor? The greater the ratio of the mass of the armor to the reserved volume, the thicker the armor.
                      1. Zaurbek
                        Zaurbek 29 June 2018 18: 13
                        0
                        The NATO tanks (Leo and Abrams and Merkava and Leclerc) have an armored volume greater than the thickness of the armor and the weight of the tank itself .... what are you talking about?
  8. novel66
    novel66 27 June 2018 09: 51
    0
    looks like a tiger? Or a glitch with me?
  9. aszzz888
    aszzz888 27 June 2018 10: 18
    +1
    ... no matter how babble and the result is one. (there is a joke on this subject about clay and the boy who sculpted ....) bully
  10. Stirbjorn
    Stirbjorn 27 June 2018 10: 35
    +8
    But it is too early for Russia to look carefully at these attempts, and even once: for now, it is necessary to bring Armata to mass production. The process is proceeding successfully, albeit at a slower rate than planned, and the tank will undoubtedly soon be brought to the successful completion of state and military tests and adoption for armament and mass production.
    the tank was presented at the parade back in 2014! And still the tests are not completed ?! What success can we talk about then, and even more so throw stones at the Europeans. True, the author is successful and called the work on the destroyer "Leader", although he is not even in the drawings, so far.
    1. Hadastus
      Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 31
      +3
      And where to rush? Russia already has one of the best tank forces in the world, and the use of which against NATO is purely hypothetical, because NATO, while Russia has such an advantage in nuclear weapons and nuclear weapons, and the Death Star demonstrated by the Darkest Federal Assembly, NATO will not go to war with Russia . Guderian’s tank wedges, it’s all the past, in the present - except as the wet fantasies of the Poles, Svidomites and the Baltic states.
    2. Alekhanets
      Alekhanets 28 June 2018 13: 28
      +2
      as far as I know, it’s being tested in the troops and the main thing is the training of specialists and crews .... it’s stupid to put in the troops if the situation is the same as in the 14-15th year in the Pskov division, when the latest equipment arrived and ... it was put in hangars, because they couldn’t master themselves, they sent officers for training ... and Armata will be more difficult
  11. iouris
    iouris 27 June 2018 12: 08
    +1
    There is a war. The decisive stage is coming. Competing during the war is the shortest path to defeat.
  12. Alecsandr
    Alecsandr 27 June 2018 14: 22
    0
    "Armata" is just another project under development. Better T-90 stamp more
    1. Hadastus
      Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 33
      +1
      In the context of Almaty, the T-90 dropped to the status of a transitional model, why produce extra entities. Upgraded T-72 is enough.
  13. The leader of the Redskins
    The leader of the Redskins 27 June 2018 14: 31
    +2
    Well, excellent, they created a “picture for the exhibition”, a “show-stopper”, mastered the means, showed that they seem to be wiping their pants for good reason - then what? - Is the author definitely not writing about Armata?
  14. NF68
    NF68 27 June 2018 15: 52
    +1
    It remains to wait and see what will become reality, and what will remain at the level of the author’s assumptions.
  15. aloleggry
    aloleggry 27 June 2018 16: 02
    +4
    If you look at the tank in front and with a cannon in the combat position of about 50 meters, then talk about its beauty or ugliness as it was once. It amazes me that the Germans cooperated with the French to create a tank. According to the results of World War II, only the Germans and ours had decent tanks. The experience of using the same. The Germans will cope on their own. And faster.
    1. NF68
      NF68 27 June 2018 16: 40
      +6
      According to the results of World War II, only the Germans and ours had decent tanks. The experience of using the same.


      American "Sherman" was also not a bad tank. Although he had flaws. And the English tank "Comet" was not the worst WWII tank. Although developed by the British from the 1943 of the year, the Centurion managed to wage war in Europe, but the development of this tank suggests that the British made the right conclusions based on the results of using tanks in WWII.
  16. Black sniper
    Black sniper 27 June 2018 17: 35
    +3
    I immediately did not like the mushroom-shaped tower of Almaty. When hit by a shell in its lower half, it will simply be torn off!
    1. Hadastus
      Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 34
      +2
      This is the false panels, the tower is really small around the breech of the gun.
  17. Prutkov
    Prutkov 27 June 2018 17: 39
    +1
    Both the French and Germans have a good tank building school of their own, which fits in with the views on the use of tanks in battle. Both Leclerc and Leopard are good tanks. Therefore, do not underestimate this project. Although, I think that the eternal struggle of armor and shell has already led to the ultimate mass-dimensional characteristics of tanks. To make tanks larger and heavier than 50 tons means to limit their possibilities of use. I think that the time has come to create machines having a specific specificity - attack tanks (type T-90) and escort and defense tanks from anti-tank systems (BMPTT). We need a new tactic for the use of tank units.
    1. yehat
      yehat 27 June 2018 19: 16
      0
      now it’s pointless to consider tanks as a self-sufficient force,
      you need to follow the path of their wide integration with other means, as the Israelis or Koreans or Germans try to do this - we need a radical restructuring of target designation, based on deployed means - from infantry to drones, radars and passive sensors
      ps by the way, the author vainly mischief about the Japanese - they just make tanks for themselves, for the specific conditions of the islands and highlands, and do not buy equipment that, in principle, was designed for another. Although, perhaps, they will now be purchased in Korea.
    2. NF68
      NF68 27 June 2018 21: 09
      0
      Quote: Rods
      Although, I think that the eternal struggle of armor and shell has already led to the ultimate mass-dimensional characteristics of tanks. Making tanks bigger and heavier than 50 tons means limiting them in application possibilities.


      If hybrid power plants will be used on next-generation tanks, these new-generation tanks will be much more mobile with a longer engine and transmission resource. It is not possible to create a tank weighing no more than 50 tons and provide it with acceptable protection. Therefore, in all MBTs, the weight increases on each new modification.
  18. Signaller
    Signaller 27 June 2018 18: 21
    +1
    Yes, it’s clear. Our tanks, based on the experience of the Second World War, are light enough. 43 tons is a normal weight for the European Theater. Well, after all, we had heavier tanks. The same HF. and where are they. ?? The lion's share of them drowned in swamps and fields - and went to the Germans in the form of trophies. And by the way, they also could not use them further. due to weight. The same T-34s were used when getting to the Germans in the form of trophies. We draw the conclusions of the Lord.
  19. Yarhann
    Yarhann 27 June 2018 19: 02
    0
    garbage all these tanks with an inhabited tower and without AZ. Even in Armata, the crew could be reduced to 2 people. After all, the commander can control the fluff like in t 90. Although still 3 people are probably optimal. In Leclerc, by the way, there are also three. In general, it’s time to trust the optoelectronic system of the tank and the on-board computer to trust the selection and search for targets, and the commander will only choose which target to choose and press the descent
    1. Hadastus
      Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 39
      +1
      So 2 people wanted in Armata, in general, all the planning of uninhabited tower tanks, from the 80s, set by Morozov, proceeded from the fact that the tank of the XXI century will be a two-crew. But the engineers decided not to be too radical, and there are so many revolutionary in Armata.
      1. Yarhann
        Yarhann 28 June 2018 00: 42
        0
        Well, the tads are all ahead - in fact, you need a commander (to command the position of the tank and press the descent) and a driver. Everything else can be done by an onboard computer based on information received from various sensors and detection tools. You must admit that the calculator will find it much better and faster to find a moving or heat-contrasting object in the field of view of the optics than a person will do while immediately pointing a gun at it (if the installation is in the software), the commander will only need to press the shutter button and that’s all, or if the targets switch somewhat between them and shoot at the one that the commander considers more important. In fact, one step remains before the combat robot - this is when the commander is thrown out of the tank and will be given the decision to open fire on-board computer.
        And in this context, I worry not so much for the crew - but how much for combat effectiveness. After all, such a machine will be tireless, constantly on the platoon. As for me, it is in the ground heavily armed and armored combat robots that the Russian Federation should become a trendsetter.
        I think that the time will come soon when in unmanned tanks they will book the combat station and MTO - the only weak spots - which can disable the tank. The same tank control system can be duplicated and made like in modern cars all sensors and devices on the same CAN bus. At the same time, having duplicated this tire, which will make it possible for the car to be incredibly tenacious. Therefore, the main goal will be precisely the ammunition depot and the MTO - and you must admit, this is already much less than reserved for the crew. That is, to act according to the principle as when booking su 25 - to book not the entire plane, vital components and assemblies, but also the pilot. By the way, an attack UAV attack aircraft of the future will be even more survivable, smaller and more deadly than Su 25. Due to the fact that you can remove the cockpit and all kinds of means of providing life, etc. That will make it possible to make the car smaller, and easier and reduce the size of the nodes needed for booking.
        Modern strike UAVs are, of course, a complete ahtung - flying target planes, go astray from everything that shoots given their low speed and low ceiling. Yes, and they can mainly apply only the WTO - which makes them even more meaningless - because the WTO can use any modern MFIs.
        1. urman
          urman 28 June 2018 10: 51
          +2
          Quote: Yarhann
          Everything else may well be done by an onboard computer

          The broken caterpillar in battle will also replace the computer?
          Or B \ K replenish? Repairmen are not always nearby.
          And then two people urgently repair some kind of damage, together, where three of them get physically, jump into the tank and try to get a finger at the button on the monitor with trembling hands.
          1. -Pollux
            -Pollux 28 June 2018 14: 27
            +1
            Quote: urman
            The broken caterpillar in battle will also replace the computer?

            And now what? Let's attach to the tank a workshop for twenty personnel repairmen, otherwise there will be no one to repair the tank. This is such a powerful argument, there is no one to replace the caterpillar in battle. And in battle there’s no one to weld up any tankers - you need to bring cooks, barber and pedicurist into the crew of the tank.
            1. urman
              urman 28 June 2018 14: 33
              +1
              Quote: Pollux
              And now what? Let's attach to the tank a workshop for twenty personnel repairmen, otherwise there will be no one to repair the tank

              Absurd stupidity do not write!
              The conversation is just about the load on each crew member, which is also taken into account when designing the equipment,
              Do you think you need to leave one crew member? Will the technician handle the rest?
              And at the slightest minor breakdown, throw expensive equipment onto the battlefield.
              Did you lift anything heavier than a spoon in this life when you got up from a sofa?
              1. -Pollux
                -Pollux 28 June 2018 15: 03
                +1
                Quote: urman
                The conversation is just about the load on each crew member, which is also taken into account when designing the equipment,

                And when designing, they do not take into account that each additional crew member is an additional armored volume, which will sharply reduce the protection of the tank?
                Quote: urman
                Do you think you need to leave one crew member? Will the technician handle the rest?

                You need to leave as much as necessary in battle, and not to repair the tracks.
                Quote: urman
                And at the slightest minor breakdown, throw expensive equipment onto the battlefield.

                War is a team sport.
                Quote: urman
                Did you lift anything heavier than a spoon in this life when you got up from a sofa?

                Oh, decided to go personal? How mean it is, low. But I do not hesitate to talk about myself. I haven’t yet laid down on the sofa today. My work is very hard. Two-thirds of newcomers who come to us leave after having worked only one day with the words “people don’t work like that”, get a job on the Russian Railways as a fitter.
                And as for the caterpillar, I will say this - in my youth I put the caterpillar on its own, though not on the tank but on the tractor, at least one person, even three caterpillars, will not be able to hold it.
                1. urman
                  urman 28 June 2018 21: 18
                  +2
                  Quote: Pollux
                  each additional crew member is an additional reserve amount

                  Three people is already a minimum.
                  Below is nowhere.
                  Read the memories of designers, Morozov, Kostenko, Kartsev.
                  When designing a machine, everything is taken into account, even the time to replenish the b / c and everything with a stopwatch.
                  And if you have to refuel with t / z and with barrels, the buckets will refuel.
                  Thank God, combat vehicles are designed and adopted not like you.
                  Because war is not a sport but hard work, with sweat and bloody calluses,
                  \\\\\\\\\ It is necessary to leave as much - as necessary in battle, and not to repair the tracks \\\\\\\\\ ....
                  N yes, I won’t even comment here,
                  We throw a serviceable car with a broken goose or some kind of bursting pipe and run to the rear, we get a brand new car and alga.
                  Yes, with specialists like you, no industry will pull an army
                  1. -Pollux
                    -Pollux 29 June 2018 12: 45
                    +1
                    Quote: urman
                    We throw a serviceable car with a broken goose or some kind of bursting pipe and run to the rear, we get a brand new car and alga.

                    Will the three people who have burst the branch pipe change? fellow . And the goose can be pulled by fighters of the attached unit. He (the tank) will not be alone fighting against all of NATO?
                    Quote: urman
                    \\\\\\\\\ It is necessary to leave as much - as necessary in battle, and not to repair the tracks \\\\\\\\\ ....
                    N yes, I won’t even comment here,

                    Because there is nothing to comment on, I do not knowingly write that it is necessary to make a crew of two, three or four people, specialists will decide how much is needed. I just say that we must strive to reduce the number of crew as technology allows.
                    1. urman
                      urman 29 June 2018 15: 21
                      +1
                      Quote: Pollux
                      throttled pipe will the three of us change?

                      Just watch the movie (In war as in war).
                      I would have looked at you very smart, would you have lived to replace that track.
                      And indeed we are speaking different languages, I’m talking about the fact that everything has been counted and calculated for a long time, like the load on every crew member.
                      And you all play in tanks, but in a real battle the computer will not turn on the reboot and you will not come to life.
                      About people like you said, it was smooth on paper, but they forgot about the ravines, and walk on them.
                      1. -Pollux
                        -Pollux 29 June 2018 15: 25
                        0
                        Quote: urman
                        Just watch the movie (In war as in war)

                        Seriously, are you suggesting that I judge the war from the movies?
                        Quote: urman
                        And indeed we are speaking different languages, I’m talking about the fact that everything has been counted and calculated for a long time, like the load on every crew member.

                        What is not clear to you in this phrase?
                        Quote: Pollux
                        I do not knowingly write what needs to be done by a crew of two, three or four people, specialists will decide how much
                      2. Yarhann
                        Yarhann 29 June 2018 20: 08
                        0
                        you are one of those retrograde towns that are still preparing for past wars — there will not be such tanks and fights like those in WWII — no one will let you cut tracks and branch pipes and that's it.
                        You are all agitating for reality - so look at the clashes in Syria - no one is repairing tanks under fire there, there are wedges and gusli and towers, etc. Just a break comes or another tank rolls up - a warrior climbs out under fire and catches cables and the tanks are pulled to the near rear. That is what modern warfare is.
                        And yes, only the use of advanced detection and target designation systems on modern technology, as well as navigation, automated tank protection systems (such as AZ or automated jamming) makes it really useful and dangerous for the enemy on the battle line. And given how many different electronic systems are used on a modern tank, these are both BIUS and TIUS - these are systems without which a modern tank is inconceivable - it is mostly the on-board computer that must be controlled. The commander should only receive information already processed and give instructions for execution.
                        Automation helps a person do what he knows how to do poorly and slowly. And in modern technology until the era of robots - for humans, only the role of decision-making should remain - that is, a maneuver or a shot (regarding a tank) should be done by the machine.
          2. Yarhann
            Yarhann 29 June 2018 19: 50
            0
            if a caterpillar is killed in a tank (and this is not HERE), then it’s already a destroyed tank and God forbid the legs to be carried away to the crew - although they are also most likely potential blindfolds.
            It’s necessary to replenish and make small repairs with the replacement of DZ and TP units in the near rear and tankers always have such software - and without it, attach a company of soldiers to the tank — they will not give birth to DZ units just like the BK will not conjure and even less in tanks with diesel fuel.
            On the battlefield, the tank has two tasks to perform a combat mission and return to the near rear for repair and replenishment of fuel and lubricants from the BC.
  20. trahterist
    trahterist 27 June 2018 19: 56
    +1
    Quote: Andrey Yurievich
    European monsters want to compete with the Russian beauty "Armata"
    a moot point, "beauty", "Armata" can be called drunk ...

    If you compare with competitors (Abrams, Leopard), then the T-14 is directly handsome!
    Only Leclerc can compare in harmony, and then ...
    As for 'Calling Drunk beautiful', you can safely say about Merkava, yes there ...
    1. Hadastus
      Hadastus 27 June 2018 23: 40
      +1
      Merkava is a fat BMP-1))
  21. steelmaker
    steelmaker 27 June 2018 20: 56
    +1
    Which tank is better - tank biathlon will decide, at best. Therefore, Europe does not participate, and does not invite us. 50 years will not be enough for them to recover from such a shame.
    1. 1970mk
      1970mk 29 June 2018 01: 11
      +1
      Tank biathlon? Yes, you’re sick, my friend! This SHOW has nothing to do with the combat work of the tank. This is just a SHOW.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 29 June 2018 08: 11
        0
        Driving a SHOW tank, getting a TsU SHOW ?, Shooting a SHOW? Crew Harmony - SHOW?
        1. 1970mk
          1970mk 30 June 2018 02: 58
          +1
          Everything that happens in the competition doesn’t have a RELATIONSHIP in real conditions! And about your favorite SHOW ... I remember a few years ago our best crew, firing guided projectiles, hit the target in these greenhouse-polygon conditions 3 times! Sport found too))))
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 1 July 2018 20: 05
            0
            How warriors learn so they then fight ....
  22. tank64rus
    tank64rus 27 June 2018 21: 07
    +2
    Only the HSE did not intervene in this process is worse for Almaty than NATO tanks combined.
  23. iouris
    iouris 27 June 2018 22: 20
    +2
    Quote: Rods
    To make tanks larger and heavier than 50 tons means to limit their possibilities of use.

    I think this is a way to make the EU and our government bring the road network and bridges into line with NATO requirements.
  24. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 28 June 2018 05: 40
    +1
    The Americans also tried to cross the tower from Abrams on the chassis of the M60 tank, it didn’t work out, there were no customers, and although the idea was interesting, Ukrainians didn’t have a hybrid chassis of the T-64 tank and the T-55 turret, tin.
  25. Kito
    Kito 28 June 2018 16: 54
    0
    Quote: Hastatus
    - The tsarist insignia of the Moscow Grand Dukes and the Monomakh cap was presented by the Byzantine emperor Konstantin Bagryanorodny. This is also a historical myth, but then they believed in it and considered it the official position of the authorities.

    You are deeply mistaken. it was donated by Khan Uzbek in a place with a harness. and at first it was just a golden skullcap. on which they then added a fur trim and a cross ... something like this
  26. 1970mk
    1970mk 29 June 2018 01: 10
    +2
    What a nonsense! Frankly got such articles "patriotic". Armata? Where is she? Description, engine, weapons? Photo? TTX? There is nothing real - prototype mockups. How can you compete with what is not? In addition, Europe, unlike us, is so disarmed that they are unlikely to be able to protect themselves.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 29 June 2018 08: 15
      0
      In Europe, more weapons than in the Russian Federation. Another thing is that they don’t really need a war. But there are third countries with their weapons and patronage. Which may be forgotten and start a conflict with us, hoping for NATO. Like Georgia or someone more.
    2. -Pollux
      -Pollux 29 June 2018 12: 49
      +1
      Quote: 1970mk
      rmata? Where is she? Description, engine, weapons? Photo? TTX?

      And you ask the FSB
  27. -Pollux
    -Pollux 29 June 2018 14: 29
    0
    Quote: Hastatus
    Regarding the insult, leave your hypocrisy, because you just insulted me in a letter, calling it a “hoaxer”. Publicly, the spirit was not enough for fear of a ban, yes.

    It’s not me who invents the rules, I obey them. In your backyard you can whom you want and how you want to insult, in public - you can’t.
    Quote: Hastatus
    Not a single historian (that is, ALL educated historians) who graduated from the Faculty of History and is associated with the Academy of Sciences - will never support the ravings of the New Martyrs. It is a fact.

    These "historians" can not confirm their nonsense.
    Quote: Hastatus
    And the epithet "novokhronolozhets" is not an insult, but a well-established humorous labeling of Fomenko adherents, due to their absolute clinical inadequacy, which by the way can be seen in your example, dear.

    I do not care, publicly on this resource you should call me by name or by nickname. You can Poke if you wish.
    Quote: Hastatus
    My advice to you, as a good doctor to an unfortunate patient, is taken from the network and read scientific historical literature - textbooks on methodology, archeology, paleography, historiography, auxiliary historical disciplines. They, once again I personally repeat for you - in FREE access.

    Do not tell me what to do, I will not tell you where to go. In your opinion that * I made such an unflattering conclusion by reading the Murzildka magazine?
  28. demo
    demo 29 June 2018 22: 54
    +3
    Look at the girls. One gynecologist and another economist.
    So they will give birth to the answer to our Armata.

    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 1 August 2018 11: 58
      0
      Not they will give birth, but Rheinmetall. Which does not need to be told how to make tanks ... They can do very high-level equipment, the question is its mass character and threats to Europe.
  29. alexx-fenix
    alexx-fenix 30 June 2018 08: 54
    0
    A beautiful tank turned out.
  30. Nikolay Kuznetsov
    Nikolay Kuznetsov 1 July 2018 16: 42
    0
    I’m certainly not a tanker and not a tank test and, of course, I don’t know the characteristics of real Armata, but ..... I don’t like him and didn’t like it right away as soon as it was shown at the Parade .. Well, some kind of freak .., especially the tower and generally the proportions of the case, the overall appearance is strange .. They say it is necessary for stealth and even blah blah blah .. Put next to the 90th and this Armata. Which is more elegant and naturally beautiful ..? Pralna ... And this one ... I don’t know ...
  31. Catfish
    Catfish 1 July 2018 23: 55
    +2
    Quote: Nikolai Kuznetsov
    I’m certainly not a tanker and not a tank test and, of course, I don’t know the characteristics of real Armata, but ..... I don’t like him and didn’t like it right away as soon as it was shown at the Parade .. Well, some kind of freak .., especially the tower and generally the proportions of the case, the overall appearance is strange .. They say it is necessary for stealth and even blah blah blah .. Put next to the 90th and this Armata. Which is more elegant and naturally beautiful ..? Pralna ... And this one ... I don’t know ...


    I’m just a tanker for military service in the SA and I’m up to the star-door how beautiful the car looks on which I have to fight. For me and for any normal person, not the appearance of the tank is important, but how it will help me save my life and the lives of my crew. And it’s better for you to talk about “beauty” somewhere at specific competitions that have nothing to do with this site. soldier
    1. Nikolay Kuznetsov
      Nikolay Kuznetsov 2 July 2018 08: 25
      0
      It is known that an ugly plane does not fly, and a tank means maybe ...?
  32. Catfish
    Catfish 2 July 2018 17: 52
    +1
    Quote: Nikolai Kuznetsov
    It is known that an ugly plane does not fly, and a tank means maybe ...?


    I will not say anything about airplanes, I flew only as a passenger. As for the tank, then it’s completely useless for him to fly. I understand that you wrote this just to blurt out something. Very constructive, keep on daring. bully
  33. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 1 August 2018 11: 56
    0
    Albert1988,
    So you do not shoot at Abrams forehead .... and even more so with DZ. And the ATGM will appear more than 152mm like Helfaer, say 200mm with a penetration of 1,5 meters ... and it will pierce through. For an ATGM like Cornet, this is a matter of another missile with a container. And on board modern Abrams are better protected than the T-90 and the BC is better protected.