Early in the morning at forty-one

June 22 in Russia - Day of memory and grief. On this day in 1941, Hitler’s Germany and its satellites attacked the Soviet Union. The Great Patriotic War began, costing our people millions of lives and bringing tremendous destruction and damage to the Soviet country. Therefore, June 22 is a very significant and very tragic date for Russia, for all other states that were part of the Soviet Union by 1941. Being a part of the Second World War, the Great Patriotic War was of crucial importance for the entire world stories Twentieth century. After the victory over Nazi Germany, they began to divide the history into prewar and postwar periods.

Despite the fact that World War II had other fronts - hostilities unfolded in North and East Africa, the Mediterranean, Southeast Asia and Oceania, it was the war of the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany that was crucial. The Soviet people took the brunt of Germany and its allies, and, unlike the United States, Great Britain and British dominions, the war was fought on the very territory of the Soviet state, not only soldiers and officers of the Red Army and Navy were killed fleet, but also millions of peaceful Soviet citizens.

Today, very few participants of the Great Patriotic War have survived - people who forged the Victory with their blood and then. For them, 9 May is a great holiday, but 22 June is a tragic day, reminiscent of the sacrifices that the Soviet people were forced to make in the name of victory over Germany. In memory of the Great Patriotic War 22 June, national flags are lowered throughout the Russian Federation, while television, radio and cultural and leisure institutions are trying to cancel all entertainment programs and events during the day. But the main thing is not the formal side of this tragic date, but the memory of the terrible war and the colossal losses suffered by the Soviet country, which it would be worth passing from generation to generation.

Hitler Germany attacked the Soviet Union at dawn 22 June 1941. German planes violated the airspace of the USSR, in response to that in 3: 06 22 June 1941, the head of the headquarters of the Black Sea Fleet Rear Admiral Ivan Eliseev ordered to open fire on them. Thus, the Rear Admiral gave the very first military order to repulse the Nazis during World War II. A minute later, the Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army General of the Army Georgy Zhukov was notified of the start of hostilities. On 4: 00, the Foreign Minister of the Third Reich, Joachim von Ribbentrop, handed a note to the Soviet Union’s Ambassador to Germany, Vladimir Dekanozov, about declaring war. At dawn 22 June 1941, German troops crossed the border of the Soviet Union, invading its territory.

There is a widespread view that Hitler Germany attacked the Soviet Union treacherously and in Moscow they allegedly did not expect German aggression against the USSR. Of course, one should not assume that the Soviet leaders, the command of the Red Army, the intelligence services were so naive and blind not to see the military preparations of Hitler's Germany and its satellites.

During the 1938-1940. Hitler’s Germany occupied most of the countries of Western Europe and many countries of Eastern Europe that were not its allies. With the exception of neutral Sweden and Switzerland and Great Britain fighting against Hitler, all other European countries were either captured by Hitler’s troops, or were among allies (Italy, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Finland, Slovakia, Croatia) or sympathizers (Spain and Portugal ).

It is clear that since the end of the 1930s, Hitler’s Germany was viewed by Moscow as a potential adversary. Preparations for repelling Germany’s possible aggression were in full swing. So, in April - May 1941, the People's Commissariat of Defense of the USSR proceeded to the covert mobilization of military reserve. Officially, young men who had served in the army were called to training camps. In total, over 802 thousand people were called up for training camps, that is, 24% of the assigned personnel according to the mobilization plan.

Thanks to the mobilization of military service, the Soviet command was able to significantly increase the number of personnel of half of the divisions of the Red Army. Thus, the 21 divisions were enlarged to 14 thousand people, 72 divisions - to 12 thousand people, 6 divisions - to 11 thousand people. 13 May 1941, the cadets of military schools were released into the army ahead of time - this measure also spoke about the seriousness of the situation. Starting from the second half of May 1941, the command of the Red Army began the transfer of the Red Army divisions closer to the western borders of the country. The construction of highways was carried out at an accelerated pace, airdromes and other military installations in the western military districts, close to the state border, were strengthened and masked.

Residents of Soviet intelligence have reported on the upcoming Nazi-German attack on the Soviet Union in Moscow since the end of 1940. However, the Soviet leadership treated the scouts without proper attention, especially since the non-aggression treaty was concluded between Germany and the Soviet Union, and in addition, Moscow regularly received information about the impending landing of the Hitler army on the British Isles. Assuming that in the event of the start of a large-scale war with Great Britain, Germany would not attack the Soviet Union, the Soviet leadership did not believe in the possibility of starting a war precisely in the 1941 year.

Joseph Stalin did not even heed the report of the Soviet Foreign Intelligence Chief of the 1 Directorate of the USSR NKGB (NKVD) Pavel Fitin, who reported to the leader about a possible attack by Hitler Germany on 17 on June 1941. Iosif Vissarionovich recommended Fitin to send the “source” of information to a known address, having decided that the British special services wanted to poison the USSR with Germany with the help of disinformation. In a similar vein, Stalin reacted to the message of the Soviet military attache in Paris, Major General Ivan Susloparov, who reported that the Nazis should attack the Soviet Union 22 June 1941 of the year. As in the previous case, Stalin decided that he was dealing with misinformation, which the British purposefully launch.

However, in 23: 30 21 June 1941, the Soviet leadership decided to bring the troops of five border military districts to alert status. At the same time, the directive prescribed not to give in to any provocations, although it was emphasized that during 22-23 in June 1941, a sudden attack of German troops on the fronts of the Leningrad military, Baltic special military, Western special military and Odessa military forces was possible special military districts. At this time before the attack of Hitler's Germany on the Soviet Union were already a matter of hours. The directive came to the troops too late, when there was no time left for the actual bringing of units and subunits to alert status.

22 June in 12 hours of the day, the USSR People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Molotov addressed the Soviet people, in which he reported on the German attack on the Soviet Union and the beginning of the war. June 23 was created by the High Command Headquarters. By decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, with 23 in June 1941, a mobilization of military 14 ages (1905 — 1918 of birth) in 14 military districts from 17 of military districts existing at that time was declared. A little later, mobilization in the western regions of the USSR, and then in Moscow and the Moscow region, was also extended to military citizens of the USSR 1890-1904 of birth and recruits 1922-1923 of birth. In total, by the end of 1941, more than 14 million Soviet citizens had been mobilized.

Many citizens, without waiting for the summons of the military enlistment offices, came themselves, asked to go to the front voluntarily. Among the volunteers were women, young people under the draft age and, conversely, elderly people who were no longer subject to conscription. Soviet citizens of different ages and nationalities, different professions and different sexes stood up to defend their country. So, Soviet women made a huge contribution to the victory over Nazi Germany, among whom were home front workers, selfless nurses and nurses who helped wounded soldiers under enemy fire, and scouts and pilots of the famous aviation regiments.

As is known, the first months of the war were the hardest. The Red Army suffered huge losses, retreating under the onslaught of Hitler's troops. The enemy captured one Soviet city after another. It seemed that Nazi Germany would succeed in completely crushing the Soviet Union. By 1 December 1941, the territories of Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Belarus, Moldova, a significant part of Ukraine and the European part of the RSFSR were under the control of the Nazis and their allies. The losses of such important regions as Krivoy Rog iron ore and Donetsk coal basins were of the greatest importance for the Soviet country. In the hands of the enemy were the most important industrial and economic centers - Minsk, Kiev, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Odessa. German and Finnish troops blocked Leningrad. Millions of Soviet citizens were in the occupied territories, where hundreds of thousands of people became victims of the genocide policy of the Soviet people, tens of thousands were taken into slavery in Germany.

The losses of the Wehrmacht by this time are estimated at 740 thousand people, including 230 thousand people killed. In the first months of the war, the Red Army suffered incomparably great losses, but the heroism of ordinary Soviet soldiers and officers who had fought the enemy to the very end was incredible. For example, by September 1941 of the NKVD of the USSR disbanded 58 border units due to the lack of personnel. The Soviet border guards who fought for life and for death fell to the death of the brave. In the occupied cities and towns, Soviet citizens created underground organizations, in the forests - partisan detachments. It was the colossal strain of the forces of the Soviet people that made it possible to thwart the Hitlerite plan "Barbarossa" to capture most of the territory of the Soviet Union at lightning speed.

Under Moscow and Leningrad, the Hitlerite attack was choked. And this was the beginning of the end of Hitler's Germany, since the Führer, realizing that Germany was losing the Soviet Union in manpower, relied specifically on a quick offensive and instantaneous defeat of the Soviet forces that failed to orient themselves. When the Wehrmacht was stopped at the end of 1941, near Moscow, many far-sighted generals in the German General Staff began talking about the fact that the war was lost to Germany. Although Hitlerism was defeated only after three and a half years, experienced commanders understood that as soon as the Russians managed to halt the rapid onset of Hitler’s armies, the latter would get bogged down in Russia and sooner or later the Red Army would take revenge and throw them out of the territory of the Soviet Union. However, hardly any of the German generals could have imagined that the Red Army would not only force the Wehrmacht to leave the territory of the USSR, but would also free all Eastern and Central Europe from Hitlerism, reach Berlin and simply destroy the Nazi regime at the root.

The Great Patriotic War, ending with the complete victory of the Soviet Union over Nazi Germany, predetermined the outcome of the Second World War and liberated the world from Nazism. Germany, which claimed world domination, was defeated, divided into spheres of influence between the allies. But the Great Patriotic War was of tremendous importance in the domestic political sense. Victory in the war allowed the Russian people again, for the first time in the post-revolutionary decades, to feel themselves a great people. This, by the way, was declared by Stalin himself.

Probably, there is no such family in modern Russia that would not be somehow connected with the Great Patriotic War. Participants in the war and its victims are among the relatives of almost every citizen of modern Russia. Having become a great test for our country, the Great Patriotic War, after almost seven and a half decades after its completion, retains its symbolic meaning. Victory in the war became a symbol of courage, courage and dedication of the Soviet people, of all the numerous nationalities that inhabited the Soviet Union at that time. On the Day of Memory and Grief - the Day of the start of the Great Patriotic War it remains only to remember with kind words those heroic people who fought to the last drop of blood for our native country, honor their memory, pay respect to those few who are alive and well so far. .

Comments

[Basil50]

REMEMBER
We also remember the tragedy of the beginning of the war and the VICTORY in the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR. We remember with gratitude the warriors of the RED ARMY and what kind of victims the VICTORY cost. As you need to remember with gratitude and about the SUPREME CHIEF COMMANDER about Joseph Stalin VISSARIONOVICH.

[dSK]

On the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow at exactly 4-00 in the morning - the time of the beginning of World War II - the participants of the All-Russian youth movement "Unarmeitsy" laid flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, located in the Alexander Garden in Moscow. The children lit the Candles of memory and laid wreaths at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. This was reported Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, RIA Novosti reports.

[dSK]

In the very first days of the war, the poet Boris Kovinev folded the following lines:
"On June XNUMX, at exactly four o'clock Kiev was bombed, we were told that the war had begun.
Peacetime is over, it’s time for us to leave.
I am leaving, I promise to be faithful to you to the end.
And you look, do not joke with my feeling!
Come out, friend, to the train of a friend, take a friend to the front.
Wagon wheels of the car, the train rushes with an arrow.
You are to me from the platform, I - from the train, we sadly wave our hand.
Years will pass, I will meet you again.
You smile, snuggle up to your heart and kiss, loving. "

[Tatyana]

Remember EVERYTHING! We will never forget! The enemy can’t forgive anything!

22 June exactly at 4 hours


We will not allow anyone to bring up politically "underdeveloped" Russian gymnasium students - compromisers with the German occupiers!

[Tatyana]

Levitan 22 June 1941 message from Soviet radio about German attack on the USSR

[Alena Frolovna]

June 22 morning.
I am only 9 years old.
I woke up from a kiss
Reached - I look - there is no mother!

I run barefoot to the porch
And she is standing by the window
Silently crying - What are you talking about?
- Daughter!
At this hour, the war began.

I went, woke Sasha
He is my brother, a year older, a hero.
He is a man, our support.
- Mom cries, get up, dear.

Hugged - we triple warmer.
We meet a beautiful sunrise.
And there’s a story about the war,
About father, he died. He is not there.

It has become our tradition,
It lasted so many years:
I’m both mom and my brother Sasha -
We met the MILITARY DAWN

This morning is especially sharp
You understand how fragile the world is!
It’s very easy to blow it up
And make a bloody feast!

Years passed - and three sons are nearby
We meet the dawn with us.
Thank God shells are not torn
And war has been gone for many years.

Again June 22nd.
This is the saddest dawn.

And do not interrupt the tradition of the thread!
At dawn they will leave the bed:
Ten grandchildren, and all sons,
Brother with family, and my husband and I!

And we will meet the MILITARY DAWN
Remember mom
and all
Who is absent!
Nina Kalashnikova

ETERNAL MEMORY OF ALL DIED!

[Hire]

June 22, 1941 they came to kill us. It is not our land to take away, not at home and not freedom. THEY ARE COMING TO KILL! All! Men, women, children, the elderly. All! Not the Nazis and not the Nazis came, not Hitler with Goebels and Goering. Germans have come! Simple German workers, peasants, dockers, sellers, teachers. And they brought with them half of Europe. We ALWAYS must remember this, our children, our grandchildren and descendants! And be prepared for the fact that they will come again.

[vladimirZ]

Joseph Stalin did not even heed the report of Pavel Fitin, the head of the Soviet foreign intelligence of the 1st Directorate of the NKGB (NKVD) of the USSR, who on June 17, 1941 reported to the leader about a possible attack by Nazi Germany. - from article

When will the slander against I.V. Stalin that he "did not heed" intelligence data, "believed" Hitler, and other lies and nonsense begun by the "corn-farmer" Khrushchev?
Stalin knew that the war would be at the beginning of the summer period of 1941, he had many sources of intelligence! Perhaps he hoped that Hitler was not such a fool to start a war without ending the war with England, but did not take his actions into real account.
A number of such actions, including in this article, are indicated. For example, the early release of commanders from military schools and academies, the call of 800 thousand mobilization reserve and staffing divisions of the western military districts, the transfer of individual armies to the west from the depths of the country.
In addition, the formation of military directorates of the fronts and their redeployment to field command posts, which is confirmed by the memoirs of generals and marshals, the return and, most importantly, the fulfillment of the order of the General Staff of the KA dated June 18, 1941 on bringing troops into combat readiness and withdrawing them from military towns ( except for the Special West. IN the traitor General Pavlov, who sabotaged this order), confirmed in the questionnaires of generals after the war and published in the Military History Journal in the late 80s.
There are other data confirming this position I.V. Stalin and the military leadership of the state. For example, the well-known project developed by the General Staff of the Red Army of May 15, 1941 on a preemptive strike against concentrated German troops, and not signed by Stalin, as unnecessary and provocative.
Another question is that all this could not be widely advertised, so as not to give a reason for declaring the USSR to be the initiator of the war, to show the world community, and especially the USA, that we are not the initiators of the war. In the United States, the question of helping countries that were victims of aggression was discussed in Congress, and Stalin knew this and could not allow the USSR to be declared the initiator of the war.
In fact, Stalin, restraining the generals of the Red Army about the inadmissibility of provoking the Germans at the border, formed the future anti-Hitler coalition - the guarantee of a future Victory over Nazi Germany.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: vladimirZ

When will the slander against I.V. Stalin that he "did not heed" intelligence data, "believed" Hitler, and other lies and nonsense begun by the "corn-farmer" Khrushchev?

Well, probably after officially making sane reasons for his inappropriate behavior 22 June 1941goda.
If you knew about the impending attack, then why didn’t you develop a plan to repel it, and instead launch the 2 directive into the troops, which was an outspoken oligophrenic?

[Hole puncher]

Quote: vladimirZ

And who told you that there was no Strategic Defense Plan? It was still developed by Marshal Shaposhnikov, and approved at the end of 1940.

If you allow this option, it turns out even worse, having a ready defense plan, Stalin forgot about it (fell into insanity, was drunk in cabbage soup, etc., at your discretion) and ordered through Zhukov to "fall down on the enemy with all his might" thereby causing perplexity at the headquarters. They then waited for instructions to act according to plan A, but instead, "you figure it out yourself, but destroy the enemy" ...

[vladimirZ]

If we allow this option, it turns out even worse, having a ready defense plan, Stalin forgot about it ... - Puncher

No, I didn’t forget, and therefore refused the Chief of the General Staff of the Red Army G. Zhukov, who initiated the General Staff plan of May 15, 1941 on a preemptive strike against concentrated Germans, leaving Shaposhnikov’s Defense Plan in force, but unfortunately, for that period already " corrected "Zhukov, by the way to the chief of the General Staff, the commander of the Kiev Military District.
For example, if the Shaposhnikov’s defense plan provided for the main blow to the district’s defense missile defense system, then in the corrected version of Zhukov it was transferred to OKievVO, where most of the army formations were concentrated.
In addition, imagine the state of Stalin, who knew about the absolute superiority of the Red Army in armaments over fascist Germany, dozens of Red Army divisions concentrated in the west of the country, ready to defend the country from any aggressor, he (Stalin) could imagine a lightning defeat for his troops. Yes, never, Stalin did everything that was possible in those conditions for the country's defense, and could not imagine such a thing in a nightmare. But he was not visible in front of him at that time worthy generals who could lead the Red Army.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: vladimirZ

No, I didn’t forget

You deviate from the bottom line.
Germany attacked, Stalin did not put in place a hypothetical defense plan, instead, sent to the troops a dumb Directive2, a terrible catastrophe.
It does not matter what motives he was guided by, but his act put the whole country on the brink of destruction. So he deserves a military tribunal.
Available?

[Barbus]

Eugene, everyone had a plan for covering the state border. Read memoirs and documents. When the war began, the entire local command opened the red packets and set about implementing the measures outlined in them. What was reported above (the leadership of the districts). And what do you think Stalin should have done without knowing the real situation?

[vladimirZ]

You deviate from the bottom line.
Germany attacked, Stalin did not put in place a hypothetical defense plan, instead, sent to the troops a dumb Directive2, a terrible catastrophe.
... he deserves a military tribunal. - Puncher

You absolutely do not know the history of the outbreak of war.
A terrible catastrophe did not happen because of the actions of Stalin, who at that moment did not lead the troops, but was the head of state and political leader. The catastrophe happened due to the mediocre actions of the leaders of the Red Army - the generals and marshals of that time. Read the historical research on this topic, there are many of them now.
The actions of Stalin, as the head of state, who expressed the political decision in the Directive "not to cross the border", is justified from the same point of view, to finally consolidate the status of the attacking Germany, as the aggressor "treacherously" violated the Non-Aggression Treaty. Is it really incomprehensible to someone? Stalin did not even speak on the radio on June 22, 1941, entrusting this to Molotov, since he left some other political possibilities.
But the actions of the leaders of the Red Army, who did not even have a quick signal about putting the troops in a state of combat readiness, announcing war as a special period, cause bewilderment in their elementary incompetence, in the organization of the same military radio communications.
Well, let alone a "military tribunal" for Stalin, thanks to the leadership of which the state, the armed forces, the Soviet people won the war, in general, only an ignorant person can write.
By the way, this is probably a characteristic feature that in peacetime the Army is led by generals who are unable to lead it in wartime. And this applies not only to the USSR, Russia, the history of many armies confirms this.

[Huumi]

He was sensible and could not say anything, all of his questions about genitality couldn’t say anything intelligible, there wasn’t any connection at all. It was just Stalin hoping as I think there was a well-honed strategy and the soldiers could figure out the situation ... About there reports about June 22 with "raids" almost right up to the Urals-Stalin was not fools-Germany did not have strategists all the war, from the word completely! -they had only tactical aircraft ...

[Alf]

Quote: Puncher

Stalin does not put in place a hypothetical defense plan,

Stalin, as the head of state, should only give the order to the military-Fight!
Did Stalin send Directive N2 to the troops, or did the chief of general staff do this? The photocopy of Directive N2 clearly shows the time-7-15. But this is not the time of sending to the troops, this is only the time of drawing up the directive. What did the chief of staff do before? Who was the chief of staff? Remind me? Isn't that the one, judging by the tales of which, six months before that, "looked at the map and immediately anticipated the plans of the German generals"? And if you understood then, then why did you plan to repulse aggression only June 22 at 7-15 in the morning?

[VS]

"" Germany attacked, Stalin did not put into operation a hypothetical defense plan, instead, he sent to the troops a dumb Directive2, a terrible catastrophe. ""

- in general, the Plan was put into effect at 2.30 - by the team to open the red packets)))

[Edvid]

Quote: Puncher

Quote: vladimirZ

No, I didn’t forget

You deviate from the bottom line.
Germany attacked, Stalin did not put in place a hypothetical defense plan, instead, sent to the troops a dumb Directive2, a terrible catastrophe.
It does not matter what motives he was guided by, but his act put the whole country on the brink of destruction. So he deserves a military tribunal.
Available?

///////////////////////////////////
This is how far it is necessary to be short-sighted, at least for a second to think what could be the consequences of distrust of the information of its intelligence about the possibility of a surprise strike by Germany. Upon the outbreak of war, Stalin did not prepare the country for the possibility of a surprise attack. The blame for the terribly difficult consequences of the beginning and the first two years of the war lies entirely with I. Stalin ...

[sergey32]

Who are we to judge those who, despite all the mistakes that became apparent only after the fact, were able to defeat the strongest enemy in the incredibly difficult battle - the best army in the world at that time.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: sergey32

Who are we to judge those who, despite all the mistakes that became apparent only after the fact, were able to defeat the strongest enemy in the incredibly difficult battle - the best army in the world at that time

Are you out of your mind? The mistake of not entering a defense plan was not obvious in your opinion?
That is, such a possible dialogue was possible and you think that there is nothing wrong with that?
Zhukov: - Germany attacked the USSR, but nothing, we have a plan for such a case, ready to send an order to the troops to open the letter B package and act on paragraph 3.1 of this plan!
Stalin: - Take your time in the Civil Code, but let's see how they get out ...
Zhukov: - But you can’t do without a plan, and they prepared it for half a year, we provided for all the options ... we didn’t sleep at night ... without days off ...
Stalin: - What a boring GK you are, it’s boring for me, come on, we write "write down your enemy at all costs ..."
Zhukov: - In the sense of all forces? And cooks with grooms in battle? And immediately throw the reserves on the offensive?
Stalin: - Yes, do not care, we will find others, the country is big. Write, bomb Konigsberg and Memel ...
Zhukov: - What exactly in these cities to bomb?
Stalin: - But what difference does it make that they see it, even they bomb it ... it doesn’t matter, Kalinin just asked me very much ...
Zhukov: - Well, here I threw ...
Stalin reads and laughs: - Great, and sign for Malenkov, let them think that he wrote it, and then we signed it ... Did you sign it? And for yourself?
Zhukov: - But why, will the descendants laugh?
Stalin: - But who will see this, I will only show Beria, have fun with him for a bottle ...

[Proxima]

Quote: Puncher

.... Stalin reads and laughs: - Great, and sign for Malenkov, let them think that he wrote it, and then we signed it ... Did you sign it? And for yourself?
Zhukov: - But why, will the descendants laugh?
Stalin: - But who will see this, I will only show Beria, have fun with him for a bottle ...

Where are you bullshit?
This is not even a scribbler Khrushchev spill, but at least Gorbachev, and, most likely, unhealthy fantasies some neo-historical alternative.
Please provide the source.

[Huumi]

Well, how many did not study this topic, that's what I read for the first time ...

[ramzes1776]

Quote: Puncher

Stalin reads and laughs: - Great, and sign for Malenkov, let them think that he wrote it, and then we signed it ... Did you sign it? And for yourself?
Zhukov: - But why, will the descendants laugh?
Stalin: - But who will see this, I will only show Beria, have fun with him for a bottle ...

Go comics for degenerates, I’m sure you will succeed

[geniy]

Yes, the Soviet people finally defeated fascism. But do we not have the right to judge those who at the beginning of the war gave the fascists almost half of our country?

[Alf]

Quote: geniy

But do we not have the right to judge those who at the beginning of the war gave the fascists almost half of our country?

And did the Americans judge Roosevelt for the fact that in the 41-42th United States lost almost half of its possessions?

[tomket]

Quote: Puncher

Well, probably after officially making sane reasons for his inappropriate behavior 22 June 1941goda.

And why did you decide that the actions were not adequate?

[Vladimir 5]

You do not delve into the political conditions of that time and speak from the heights of more than half a century ago. Foreign Minister Stalin did everything right politically, only domestic politics were savage and wrong, which he realized only at the end of the war, making amendments to increase the welfare of the people, but he was already at the end, death ...: All the same, the main thing is not ideas , and the real well-being of the people and the country, which the people did not receive at the beginning of the war, because of such a low combat quality of the huge Red Army, which is several times more powerful than the Wehrmacht. Only when the Nazis showed their mortally dangerous essence for the people, and the people themselves embarked on a mortal struggle to save themselves and fight to the death, even contrary to the Bolshevik politrukovsky slogans ...

[MrK]

Quote: Puncher

If you knew about the impending attack, then why didn’t you develop a plan to repel it, and instead launch the 2 directive into the troops, which was an outspoken oligophrenic?

Well, this is only oligophrenic can write.
For on the sheet 70 of the 4 volume of the investigation file on charges of the head of communications of ZAPOV A. G. Grigoriev, his words are written that “and after the telegram of the Chief of the General Staff from 18 on June 1941, the district troops were not put on alert General Pavlov. "

[VS]

"" If you knew about the impending attack, then why didn’t you develop a plan to repulse it, but instead send directive 2 to the troops, which was an outspoken oligophrenic? ""

and what do you generally read on the pre-war plans of the General Staff in case of war ??))

[andrew42]

The political leadership of the USSR worked perfectly. Germany was provoked to rush without a truce, or even an alliance with Britain, which was the mother country of the banking clans - customers of Drang nah osten. And the military leadership as a whole worked for a solid "deuce." The demonstrated unpreparedness for war turned out to be real. That is where the "inadequacy" of Stalin’s behavior comes from. The comrades at the leadership level of the Western and Kiev districts are great screwed up. And it was hardly possible without moles of the Abwehr.

[Olgovich]

Quote: vladimirZ

bestowal and most importantly fulfillment order of the General Staff of the spacecraft of June 18, 1941 years on putting troops on alert and withdrawing them from military camps

Give this document and its number. He is not anywhere.

Quote: vladimirZ

(except Special West. IN traitor General Pavlov, who sabotaged this order),

In the verdict of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court for Pavlov there is NO WORD to condemn his actions (inaction) BEFORE the war begins.
Stalin agreed with this court decision. Those. even in court documents such encryption is not mentioned.

Quote: vladimirZ

so as not to give a reason for declaring the USSR the initiator of war

strategic bridges and highways along which the Germans from the first mineThey quickly drove deep into the country, bypassing the nodes of resistance, no one bothered to mine and detonate. NOTHING has been done.

[solzh]

Quote: Olgovich

Give this document and its number. He is not anywhere.

You are right, there is no published document, but:
Memoirs of Major General I.I. Fadeev (former commander of the 10th Infantry Division of the 8th Army). On June 19, 1941, an order was received from the commander of the 10th Rifle Corps, Major General I.F. Nikolaev on bringing the division on alert.
Colonel-General of the tank forces P.P. Poluboyarov (former chief of the armored forces of PribOVO). On June 16, at 23 p.m., the command of the 12th mechanized corps received a directive on putting the compound on alert. Corps commander Major General N. M. Shestopalov was informed about this at 23 hours on June 17 upon his arrival from the 202nd Motorized Division, where he conducted a mobilization readiness check. On June 18, the corps commander raised the formations and units on combat alert and ordered them to be withdrawn to the planned areas. On June 19 and 20, this was done.
Major General P.I. Abramidze (former commander of the 72nd Mountain Rifle Division of the 26th Army). On June 20, 1941, I received the following encryption of the General Staff: “All units and units of your unit located on the border itself should be taken back several kilometers, that is, to the line of prepared positions. Do not respond to any provocations from the German units so far. will not violate the state border. All parts of the division must be put on alert. Report execution by 24 o’clock on June 21, 1941. "
And other memories of the generals of the Red Army.
It turns out the generals are lying?

[Olgovich]

Quote: solzh

It turns out the generals are lying?

No, it turns out that the marshals lie!
There was NOT such a directive either in the general staff or in the districts.

[VS]

"" There was NOT such a directive either in the General Staff or in the districts. ""

- i.e. - Despite the tyrant in the districts did something ??))

[Huumi]

Pavlov is a saboteur. By his order all the weapons from the suspensions were removed from the fighters and not just removed but sent to warehouses and preserved - I read the eyewitnesses' memoirs - they left weapons on Toko suspensions on duty squadrons

[vladimirZ]

Pavlov is a saboteur. By his order all the weapons from the suspensions were removed from the fighters and not just removed, but sent to warehouses and mothballed — I read the recollections of an eyewitness - Huumi

The same thing is mentioned in his memoirs by aviation lieutenant general S. Dolgushin, for that period a lieutenant whose regiment was exactly on June 21, 1941, Army General Pavlov, commander of the OzapVO, and Major General Kobets, commander of the district air force, who issued this criminally treacherous order .

[Huumi]

I don’t remember the name of the veteran, but the campaign was like that — they removed weapons from the suspensions and sent them to the warehouses; they filled them with cannon lard and the shelves; as a result, he said, there was nothing to think that the armament could be put on combat for half an hour

[Alf]

Quote: Huumi

cannon fat

A masterpiece, however. Was that veteran an hour away from Ukraine?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Huumi

Pavlov-saboteur.on his order, all weapons from the suspensions were removed from the fighters and not just removed but sent to warehouses and mothballed

The COURT did not indicate this.
Point.

[Huumi]

And why did they shoot him?

[andrew42]

Yes, that grabbed the wording of the court! What. it was necessary to openly declare a part of the generals of the Red Army in sabotage, and even in direct treason? Then such a panic would begin in half the country that my mother did not cry. Before you flog a fever, you need to figure out the consequences of such a "announcement".

[geniy]

That's exactly what most of the aircraft were removed and mothballed! And also tanks and artillery had almost no shells. Ammunition was at best only one battle. And there is a suspicion that a huge part of all types of ammunition and gas was stored in warehouses in the immediate vicinity of the border, and the Germans seized all these warehouses on the first day.
And then the Germans fought on Soviet gas until the forty-second year.

[Proxima]

Quote: vladimirZ

When will the slander against I.V. Stalin that he "did not heed" intelligence data, "believed" Hitler, and other lies and nonsense begun by the "corn-farmer" Khrushchev? .

As they say, no worse lies than half-truths. To whom it is interesting, let them take an interest in what information these scouts spread to Stalin from the same sources. Naturally, Stalin sent them to a known address in a place with their sources. Grains of reliable information simply drowned in a sea of ​​crap and frank desa. This is a direct job. analytical departments of the Soviet intelligence separate the grains from the chaff, and then put these "grains" to Stalin on the table. Instead, they put a bunch of Mr. ... on the table of Stalin, in which he had to pick and dismantle it.
Just not quite decent take out empty emails from the context grain of information (which then coincided with reality) and say that some scouts are good (just angels), and Stalin is a monster who once again was to blame for everything.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: vladimirZ

Stalin knew that war would be at the beginning of the summer period of 1941.

I do not remember which author, but he was a professional intelligence officer and his book was devoted specifically to intelligence, intelligence reports from various sources were brought to Stalin on the table. Before Sorge named the date of June 22, he three or four times called completely different dates, reports from other countries, including from Germany, France, England were also contradictory and mutually exclusive. There was no reason to single out any of them as more reliable. In this case, Hitler repeatedly changed the date of the invasion, these dates became known to our intelligence, followed by cancellations and transfers, sources of information, thus compromised, plus a huge amount of misinformation, which fed us both the Germans and the British ...
Our intelligence could not understand this stream of contradictory information, but Stalin miscalculated, misunderstanding Hitler's personality, with his mysticism and impulsiveness, instead of pragmatism, which was characteristic of Stalin and most politicians then and now. Hitler, according to all calculations, should NOT have attacked the USSR, but he did it.
But the reason for the defeat of 41 is not that the attack was “unexpected”, but that this attack was carried out by the best army that was available on our planet at that time, which knew how to fight as no one could, who was ahead of the order of everyone including the Red Army, in almost all aspects of the art of war.
To stop, and then crush and destroy such a monster is a very difficult matter, and for many it is simply impossible. USSR could. We really have something to be proud of, truly proud.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Trilobite Master

, but that this attack carried out the best armythat was then available on our planet, which knew how to fight like no one could,

But nothing that this army already ....6 years by birth? And just a few years ago, she had no fleet, no tanks, no planes?
Unlike....

[Proxima]

Quote: Olgovich

But nothing that this army already ....6 years by birth ?.

But nothing that this army stood on the resources of all of continental Europe, was mobilized and waged a total war like 2 years (!!!)?

[Gopnik]

This is just understandable. It is not clear why she was allowed to do this, and why our army met the enemy unmobilized.

[Proxima]

Quote: Gopnik

This is just understandable. It is not clear why she was allowed to do this.

What do you mean allowed? In 1940, the Anglo-French contingent with their Maginot line, which by the way far superior the attacking units of the Wehrmacht, resisted the Germans, corresponding their strategic and tactical skills.
No one from the Germans expected such agility that in a month ...

[Royalist]

Gopnik, but you didn’t read: "The NPO of the USSR carried out a secret mobilization of those liable for military service." And if Stalin mobilized 1 ages on June 20 or 14, Hitler would have regarded it as a readiness for war and called for an offensive

[Proxima]

Quote: Royalist

Gopnik, but you didn’t read: "The NPO of the USSR carried out a secret mobilization of those liable for military service." And if Stalin mobilized 1 ages on June 20 or 14, Hitler would have regarded it as a readiness for war and called for an offensive

History clearly shows that if a state carries out covert mobilization, then it will inevitably fight.
Moreover, in this case, they would still be recognized as the aggressor. Let me remind you that the USSR was kicked out of the League of Nations for a Finnish company.

[Gopnik]

There was no hidden mobilization, this is a bike.

Quote: Royalist

And if Stalin mobilized 1 ages on June 20 or 14, Hitler would have regarded it as a readiness for war and called for an offensive

And what's wrong with that? Although, it would be better if Stalin announced mobilization in April 1941, during the Yugoslav campaign of the Wehrmacht.

[Olgovich]

Quote: Royalist

And if Stalin mobilized 1 ages on June 20 or 14, Hitler would have regarded it as a readiness for war and called for an offensive

Means the transfer of the mobilized army from France to Poland nga eastern borders is not a readiness for war, but the answer is mobilization, yes.

[Alf]

Quote: Gopnik

unmobilized

Not funny.
The number of the Wehrmacht on 22.06.41-4 million 329 thousand people.
The number of the Red Army on 22.06.41/3/61-XNUMX million XNUMX thousand people.

[Gopnik]

Of course "not funny" - 27 million Soviet citizens killed are not jokes

[geniy]

our army met the enemy unmobilized

You are mistaken - in terms of human numbers the Soviet army was not much inferior to the Germans, but in tanks and aircraft and artillery superior. But the trouble is that mainly Soviet troops were in the depths of our territory, and the border itself was almost not covered by anything except a handful of border guards and a small number of divisions. And many tanks, guns and planes were in warehouses near the border, having neither crews nor artillery crews next to them. Weapons were removed and mothballed from aircraft.

[ramzes1776]

Quote: Proxima

already .. ..6 years old ?.
But nothing that this army stood on the resources of all of continental Europe, was mobilized and waged a total war like 2 years (!!!)?

The German army relied on the officer backbone, which survived after the WWII. Most of the German commanders of that time had the experience of WWI being in officer ranks, and not like our ensigns and lieutenant. Plus, the USSR helped them in their time by providing a training base in Kazan for tankmen and in Lipetsk for pilots. In addition, in the war with Poland and France, the Germans worked out tactics of covering the enemy with tank wedges with access to the operational space. Nobody owned such a blitzkrieg tactic at that time. The combat coordination of the units and arms was at the highest level. So for 6 years, the German army only increased meat.

[Alf]

Quote: ramzes1776

Nobody owned this blitzkrieg tactic at that time.

The concept of "Khalkhin-Gol" does not mean anything?

[vladimirZ]

Nobody owned such blitzkrieg tactics at that time - ramzes1776
The concept of "Khalkhin-Gol" does not mean anything? - alf

Does not say anything. It didn’t even stand near, because in the Red Army of that time, the organization of interaction between troops: tank, motorized infantry, artillery, aviation, engineering troops, and all this connecting into a single organism of a military fist - communications, WASN’T.
Read what the German BLITZKRIG is - a military strategy that at that time no one but the Germans owned.

[Huumi]

But didn’t anything that ours also led?

[Olgovich]

Quote: Proxima

But nothing that this army stood on the resources of all of continental Europe, was mobilized and waged a total war like 2 years (!!!)?

What is such a “total” war 39-41? WHERE is this indicated, except for you?
The resources of NOT all of Europe she had only an incomplete year! They even just need to count more time!
Nobody interfered with mobilization. And if the Germans started almost from scratch in the conditions of bans, then they didn’t interfere with others for decades.

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Olgovich

And nothing that this army as much .. ..6 years old?

Did you want to make me laugh? You succeded. In your opinion, if a woman at the registry office changes her last name, does she become a newborn?
I answer your question: nothing.

[geniy]

In your opinion, if a woman in the registry office changes her last name, does she become a newborn?

In Germany, the army was completely disbanded after the First World War. There were no tanks, no ships, no guns, no planes. And only a short time before WWII they began to create an army. And the fact that they had been fighting for 2 years - so the Soviet army fought by military advisers as tankmen and pilots in Spain, then Khalkhin-gol, Finland.

[Barbus]

Quote: Olgovich

But nothing that this army already ... ..6 years old? And just a few years ago, she had no fleet, no tanks, no planes?

Andrei, I believe, it is much more important here that the officer corps of this army had not 6 years of service in the army. Many senior officers participated in the First World War. And most importantly, since the year 39 this army has fought and these were not local conflicts. At the same time, she fought very successfully, which gave her a positive experience. Well and most importantly - since they attacked, they had a strategic initiative.

[Huumi]

Duc ours, too, fought, and for a long time, and even frivolously crossed ...

[Proxima]

Quote: Trilobite Master

... the attack carried out the best army then available on our planet, which knew how to fight like no one knew how, ahead of the order of all, including the Red Army, in almost all aspects of military art ...

Plus the army and economy of the allies of all occupied countries of the European Union.
War is, first and foremost, a war of economies. Who cares, let them take an interest in the release of the main types of industrial products in the USSR and Germany with its satellites. The difference is many times, and in many types by an order of magnitude (!!!). It is still necessary to consider the loss of the Soviet Union huge industrial and agricultural regions. Yes, that loss, for example, we did not lose Moscow and Leningrad, but industry did not function there for a long time, almost all plants were evacuated.
How is our country managed to survive and defeat such a monster - in my head does not fit.

[geniy]

War is, first of all, a war of economies.

The economy completely switches to war after some time — about six months later. And before that, the war is being fought on pre-war reserves. And although many countries worked for Germany, but 90% of the economy of the Soviet Union worked for armaments, while all Western countries (and Germany) mainly provided for the population. So the question is: why did the Germans conquer almost half of Russia in six months and reach Moscow, which in the first world they didn’t even get close to?

[Barbus]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Before Sorge announced the date on June 22nd,

Sorge never called this date. His last message before the war said the attack was delayed until the end of June. Not a single scout gave the correct date

[voyaka uh]

"and Stalin miscalculated, misunderstanding the identity of Hitler," ////

Stalin bought the simplest childish misinformation of German intelligence: "personal writing
from Hitler, "in which he convinced a" friend "that the troops at the borders -
only a cunning trick before moving them south against England,
to the Mediterranean Sea.
The letter was brought by the transport Junkers, who landed on Red Square
a month before the start of the war.
Stalin believed disinfestable and gave the fateful order: "not to succumb to provocations."

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: voyaka uh

Stalin believed disinfestable and gave the fateful order: "not to succumb to provocations."

I really would not have thought that there are still people who can blame Salina for naive gullibility on the verge of stupidity.

Quote: voyaka uh

"personal writing from Hitler"

Ie, the poor war Hitler lived during the whole war without a personal “writing”? Sorry, could not resist

[voyaka uh]

Have you not heard about this before?
I have not revealed absolutely nothing new ...
Look for something like: Landing Ju-52 in Moscow 15.05.1941/XNUMX/XNUMX
And the text of the letter is published.

[Trilobite Master]

Yes, I heard about this story, of course. I did not finally decide how to treat it — as a historical fact or a myth; I tend to the second.
In any case, even if this flight was and was a letter, to say that it radically influenced Stalin's position is simply naive.
Stalin himself believed “with difficulty and hardly”, and then suddenly he directly believed Hitler.

[voyaka uh]

There is a paradox: dictators and leaders (at all times) very often do not trust
to your assistants, associates, relatives, suspecting conspiracies, insincerity or
betrayal.
But they really trust other leaders and dictators (as if: "I understand you, we are on the same plate")
And they are trying to make friends with them.

[andrew42]

"Stalin bought it" is an oxymoron. Hitler essentially bought himself, having jumped before the armistice with Britain.

[voyaka uh]

There could be no truce with Britain.
Churchill despised Hitler and publicly ridiculed and insulted him in his speeches in Parliament, and Hitler knew about it.
Hitler, of course, was an adventurer, and Barbaross’s plan
was a military adventure, but he still brought his troops to the Volga and the Caucasus .

[figwam]

And in schools graduation began.

[Royalist]

In Urengoy see all the "especially gifted".

[Royalist]

Good song: it so simply and accurately describes the situation! Not every song can boast of it.

[KLV2018]

Quote from dsk

On the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow at exactly 4-00 in the morning - the time of the beginning of World War II - the participants of the All-Russian youth movement "Unarmeitsy" laid flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, located in the Alexander Garden in Moscow. The children lit the Candles of memory and laid wreaths at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. This was reported Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, RIA Novosti reports.

no need to write on such a tragic day to write about these undersigned.

[Olgovich]

Quote from dsk

On the Day of Remembrance and Sorrow at exactly 4-00 in the morning - the time of the beginning of World War II - the participants of the All-Russian youth movement "Yunarmeytsy" laid flowers at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, located in the Alexander Garden in Moscow.

One of the best works on VO, I think, was an article Roman Skomorokhov

22 June. Brest Fortress. Battle Reconstruction

https://topwar.ru/97596-22-iyunya-brestskaya-krep
ost-rekonstrukciya-srazheniya.html.
Who didn’t read, didn’t see the filming from there, read: you’ll get into real morning june 22 1941 ...
June 22, 1941 is the day that the Germans cannot be forgiven NEVER.....

[Huumi]

War is such a thing, a soldier must fight and die ...

[Tatar 174]

We remember that, but they quickly forget ... Again, England pits us with everyone, again we have been declared the enemy and they only dream of destroying Russia ... If there is a new war, this will be the last war on the planet, for everyone.

[Hole puncher]

Quote: Tatar 174

We remember

Who remembers that? Only people of the older generation, youth, are not interested in it, just put a ribbon on May 9 and a sticker on the car "thank you grandfather for the victory", then their grandfather of the 60s is surprised at what victory their grandchild thanks ...

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Puncher

Who remembers that?

My son remembers, for example. He knows the names of his great-grandfathers who fought, the dead, the missing and those who returned. How and where they fought, in which parts, where they died, where the graves (who have). I myself recognized all this, found it and handed it to him, and let him give it to his children.

Quote: Puncher

their grandfather's 60's birthday

I had to tell my children to thank someone myself, and not to shift this mission to the state, and then resent. To educate and teach children is the task, first of all, of parents, the state only helps in this.
And if someone forgot something or misunderstood, did not receive the necessary information in time or received it in a distorted form - this is our personal fault, each of us, but first of all the parents' fault.

[Royalist]

tribolitovich (I don’t know how about the priest), you absolutely correctly say: it all starts in the family. Older people remember this poem: "what is good? And what is bad?" If at home they didn’t explain what was good and what was bad, what was the use of yelling: “where did the school and the pioneers look (especially since there are no pioneers in the sense that we found it)?”

[Vend]

A difficult date for us.
Recently watched the documentary film "Steal from Stalin." It describes two lines of defense - the lines of Stalin and Molotov. It turns out that they were not completed, and those bunkers that made and equipped kept the onslaught (Sestaretsky line).
Here is a link to the movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBrM9FSa5CQ

[bionik]

The blessed memory of those who gave their lives in the fight against the sworn enemy, and health to veterans of the front and rear workers, whom unfortunately decreases every year !!!

[Alena Frolovna]

Best reward
To all those who died in the war
There will be light from the lamp
The Icons are in silence.

There will be a whisper of prayer
Best of all orders.
To those who fell in the battlefield
On the shores of others.

Cherubic songs
Will be a pass to Paradise.
Who was glorious and honest
And he did not sell his land.

Let the shed tears
Will be the best praise.
And the roses will bloom
Over the saved Soul.

May the peaceful sky
Soars above the earth.
This is Memory and Faith,
It keeps us from trouble.
Vasily Grishkin

[Vanek]

and just destroy the Nazi regime in the bud.

The practice of Ukraine has shown the opposite. Not all fascists grandfathers uprooted.

Among the volunteers were women, young people under the age of draft.

My grandmother was 16. In the field "fought". Sowing bread for soldiers. Throughout the war in the field on a tractor.

citizens of different ages and nationalities

The tank commander was Russian, gunner from Ukraine, fur. waters - Uzbek. And my great-grandfather, Kazakh, is a shooter radio operator. So the whole crew and burned near Königsberg.

Grandfather, thank you.

They say men do not cry. They lie!

[Mountain shooter]

Merciless war! In terms of the level of cruelty and atrocities of the attackers, it surpassed the First World War ... In fact, it was the “crusade” of Europe against the USSR. Who just was not buried in the vastness of Russia. They survived and won, redrawing the map of Europe and dividing the history into "before and after" ... And do not try us "by the tooth" again ...

[LeonidL]

Do not simplify the beginning of the war and the role of Stalin. Stalin was well aware of the exact date of the invasion, but ... but Stalin = a military-political leader and that is why he rejected both Vasilevsky’s plan and the proposal for a preventive strike by Zhukov-Timoshenko. The whole point is not in the purely military approach of the generals, but in taking into account the political component, about which the generals were little aware due to the diversity of the intelligence agencies of the USSR. If purely military information reached NGOs and the General Staff, then political information was mainly transmitted through the NKVD. Stalin in making the decision took into account several factors. 1. The combined production and scientific-technical base of occupied Europe and the Nazi bloc exceeded the capabilities of a similar one in the USSR. 2. The technical equipment of the Germans and allies, especially in communications and aviation, was superior to the Soviet. 3. The economic potential of a united Europe, including mobilization of human resources, has already become comparable with that in the USSR. 4. The Hitler and Finnish armies already had sufficient combat experience, which most Red Army personnel did not possess. Consequently, to defeat Hitler, the USSR required strong militaries, as well as economic and military-technical allies. Only the USA and Britain could be such. But ... only if certain conditions are met. If Stalin had dealt a preemptive strike on the advice of the military, the USSR would automatically have been in the role of the aggressor, who first violated the Non-aggression Pact. The result of such a blow, as both Stalin, Tymoshenko, and Zhukov perfectly understood, could not guarantee a 22% victory, most likely there were very justified doubts about this. But how would Britain's Churchill act in this case? How would world public opinion react to the USSR? The US position was known in advance - intelligence reported on the decision of Roosevelt’s cabinet - to help the USSR only in the event of aggression against Germany by Germany. Stalin, how not to relate to him, was an outstanding and strong analyst, and therefore he chose the option that enabled Hitler to attack first. Everything else - his "distraught", unpreparedness, "stupidity" he perfectly played without sharing with anyone from the environment. Do not be surprised - Comrade Stalin was never completely sure of his surroundings. Example? To whom from the surrounding "thin-necked" leaders did he reveal his plans for the destruction of the Leninist international "guard", which had become transverse to the industrialization of the USSR and the building of socialism in one particular country? I imagine that if he had devoted at least one “comrade-in-arms” to this decision, then someone else would have instantly appeared on the post of General Secretary of the Bolshevik Party. Therefore, do not simplify what happened on June XNUMX at exactly four o’clock ...

[Korsar4]

I agree. Do not simplify. Legends are good, but not always.

[Force multiplier]

Yes, the country's top military-political leadership was aware of the date of the invasion and allowed the Germans to strike. The events of June 22 are a complete analogy of the events of December 7, 1941 in Pearl Harbor, only on an incomparably larger scale. Moreover, German documents show that the Germans knew that the Soviet leadership knew that the Germans would attack. They noted the covert mobilization mentioned in the article and the start of evacuation activities at least a month before the invasion

[ver_]

... in 1953 Stalin-Dzhugashvili his Companions Beria, and Kaganovich - sent - to another world - it’s impossible to live forever on past merits .. - became a brake ..

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: LeonidL

Stalin was well aware of the exact date of the invasion,

Stalin was not aware of the exact date of the invasion. I have already written about this above. Oh prepared for his reflection, but hoped that there was still time, that is, did not expect a strike in the near future. Hitler in 1941 managed to fool him.
And do not exaggerate the value of surprise hit. The main thing that allowed the Germans to win victories at the initial stage of the war was their enormous superiority in all areas of military art over anyone, including the Red Army.

[Mega volt]

Quote: Trilobite Master

And do not exaggerate the significance of the suddenness of the blow.

Dear, do not repeat this Khrushchev-Brezhnev lie about the surprise of the attack. Germany declared war on us in advance, before the invasion - June 21, before lunch, in compliance with all diplomatic procedures. Even Comrade Stalin in his address on the radio on July 3 did not say anything about surprise, but only about the treachery of the attack!

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Mega Volt

Germany declared war on us before the invasion began - 21 June, before lunch, in compliance with all diplomatic procedures.

Interesting. I have not heard. Share sources.

[Mega volt]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Quote: Mega Volt

Germany declared war on us before the invasion began - 21 June, before lunch, in compliance with all diplomatic procedures.

Interesting. I have not heard. Share sources.

Chapter 28. When did Molotov receive a note from the German ambassador?
https://eto-fake.livejournal.com/290169.html

[Trilobite Master]

Quote: Mega Volt

Chapter 28. When did Molotov receive a note from the German ambassador?

Vladimir Mescheryakov? I do not read, I do not know. The next engineer makes historical discoveries - it is already alarming. Enough for us mathematicians in history, can everyone let them do their own thing better?
There are numerous testimonies and memories of the participants of the events, everyone agrees on one thing - Dekanozov in Berlin received a note in 4: 00 22 in June, and Molotov in Moscow in 5: 30 in 22 June. At this time, the bombs were already torn.
I don’t even want to get acquainted with Meshcheryakov’s work, his argument is not interesting to me. I also recommend that you treat these works with a fair amount of criticism, since their author is not a professional in historical science. Read better Alexey Isayev, Vyacheslav Mosunov, in my opinion their work is professional, devoid of ideological blinders, aimed precisely at establishing the truth, and not at the search for sensations, and therefore interesting and trustworthy.
As for the "surprise", then, of course, it was, but its significance in Soviet historiography is greatly exaggerated. All German generals who participated in the June 22 invasion celebrate the full tactical surprise attack, but only. Perhaps this suddenness had some consequences of operational scale, somehow the one-time destruction of a large number of airplanes at the airfields, but only in some particularly “unlucky” directions. Personally, immediately after the Germans attacked the management, supply and other crises that arose in the Red Army. inclined to attribute, nevertheless, not to “suddenness,” but to our own shortcomings.
My opinion - the surprise attack could give the Germans an advantage only in the first day of the war, on the strength of two days, not more.

[Mega volt]

Quote: Trilobite Master

There are numerous testimonies and memories of the participants of the events, everyone agrees on one thing - Dekanozov in Berlin received a note in 4: 00 22 in June, and Molotov in Moscow in 5: 30 in 22 June. At this time, the bombs were already torn.

Understand what tsimes, dear! The fact is that there is just the same concrete witness and a direct participant in the events who categorically states that the war was declared on June 21, 1941. But your "professional" historians such as Isaev and companies will never tell you about this witness and will not even hint about him, but I will tell you so, to reveal this terrible secret. This witness’s name ... Just, please, remove the children and pregnant women from the monitor screen!
This witness is called Adolf Hitler! Suddenly, agree? Hitler spoke on June 21, 1941. before dinner, on the radio, with an appeal to the German people in which he in a popular and accessible way told the whole of Germany and the whole world why and why he was declaring war on the Soviet Union. Therefore, Shullenburg did not need to run on the night of June 22 to Molotov! War had already been declared by then! The German ambassador did this on June 21, from 9-00 to 12-00, even before Hitler’s speech. And all the witnesses claiming that supposedly Molotov received a note at 5-30 in the morning of 22.06. lie!

https://eto-fake.livejournal.com/297327.html

[geniy]

superiority in all areas of military art over anyone, including the Red Army.

And wasn’t it because the Germans fought better that the Soviet troops simply didn’t have ammunition and gasoline - which all remained in the border warehouses? And even in the forty-second year, when trying to unlock Leningrad, each Soviet soldier was given only 5 (!) Rifle cartridges! Just think about it - just 5 rounds! How could you fight in such conditions ?! And the well-known pilot-hero Popkov told his wife that the pilots were given only half the amount of ammunition on the plane!
But by the forty-third year, the production of ammunition had already been restored, and then the Soviet army began to win. So what is of primary importance for losing the outbreak of war - the lack of ammunition from the Soviet troops or the superiority of German art?

[ver_]

... Zhukov called Stalin * shtafirka * in military matters .. Shtafirka - analogue * case * in the butt of AK ..

[Alf]

Quote: LeonidL

Stalin was well aware of the exact date of the invasion,

Where from?

[vladimirZ]

Quote: LeonidL
Stalin was well aware of the exact date of the invasion,
Where from? - alf

From various sources of intelligence: foreign intelligence agents of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army and the NKVD, border guards, military attachés, through the Comintern, trade missions of the USSR, diplomats, governments of England, the USA, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, etc.
If you are trying to write on this topic, read historical studies, which are now numerous, on this topic. There would be a desire to find out.

[Alf]

Quote: vladimirZ

Quote: LeonidL
Stalin was well aware of the exact date of the invasion,
Where from? - alf

From various sources of intelligence: foreign intelligence agents of the Main Intelligence Directorate of the General Staff of the Red Army and the NKVD, border guards, military attachés, through the Comintern, trade missions of the USSR, diplomats, governments of England, the USA, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Greece, etc.
If you are trying to write on this topic, read historical studies, which are now numerous, on this topic. There would be a desire to find out.

Try to find out for yourself. Messages that "Germany" will strike ... "in the 41st there were shoals with different dates. The Germans themselves constantly postponed the timing of the attack. What message to believe?

[vladimirZ]

Messages that “Germany” would strike ... "in the 41st were shoals with different dates. The Germans themselves constantly postponed the timing of the attack. What message to believe? - Alf (Vasily)

The question was not that the war would begin on June 15, June 22 or 24. The main thing was that Stalin and the leadership knew that it would begin in the initial summer period of 1941, all reports spoke of this. And the day, the week, it doesn’t matter there.
Stalin wanted to delay the attack as long as possible? Yes, I wanted it, I carried out all the work aimed at this, so as not to “provoke the Germans” and to prevent the USSR from being declared the initiator of aggression, which started the war, so then a world block of states would have formed against us.
This is the essence of the knowledge of I.V. Stalin on the outbreak of war.

[Alf]

Quote: vladimirZ

And the day, the week, it doesn’t matter there.

Just this is very important.
If you are planning to go on vacation, it will be enough for you to know that "I will go in the summer"? And what number is not important? How many tickets to buy? When to pack bags? When to ask for leave from work?
Do you know such a concept, Day D? Day D-1? Day D-2 and so on? To determine when troops should take up fortifications, when they should prepare to repel a strike, the date of this invasion is necessary.

[vladimirZ]

Just this is very important.
If you are going to go on vacation, then it will be enough for you ... - Alf (Vasily)

Similar analogies for comparing the outbreak of war for the state and organizing a trip to any private person you have cited are incorrect and do not reflect the essence of the issue.
It doesn’t matter at all when the expected most important event for the state takes place, in this case, the beginning of the war, within the specified expected period + - day, week, month, which fit into a convenient calendar period for the attack of the aggressor.
Undoubtedly the leadership of the USSR, Stalin knew that the war would be in 1941 (from the flow of intelligence. Information), they knew what would happen in the summer, since any other period, due to the climatic conditions in this theater of operations, creates unacceptable conditions for attacking troops aggressor. From here it is relatively simple, on the basis of heterogeneous intelligence, Stalin and the military leadership could easily analytically calculate the time of the attack with a certain degree of accuracy, a maximum of + - a month. Stalin's mind cannot be denied, he knew this.
According to the notions you quoted as “Day D, D + 1, D + 2 and so on”, they are relevant to the side preparing the strike or attack, and apply only to them, they are not applicable to the defending side, since the side that expects the attack only with a certain share probabilities can know the estimated day of the attack on them, + - some period. How can one count Day D here?

[andrew42]

I support. Stalin won the political party before Hitler's jump. But to guess the maximum power of the Reich’s strike with satellites and the organizational unpreparedness of the leadership of the Red Army districts for an attack — it is a sin to blame Stalin.

[Korsar4]

Day of sorrow. We remember and will remember the past World War II.

[Altona]

Eternal memory to the fallen in that war. Glory to every participant of that war who reached the victorious days of 1945. It was the greatest tragedy for our people and the whole world!
Nevertheless, fascism again raises its head all over the world, again there is talk of someone's exclusivity, that someone is worthy of slavish fate, and some repeat the fascist mantras that they were unlucky with the people. Some demand the election of a popular Fuhrer for life. People, be vigilant! Do not be fooled by false speeches and stupid promises.

[Altona]

Quote: LeonidL

Do not simplify the start of the war and the role of Stalin.

---------------------
Thank you, Leonid, for the detailed commentary on the role of Stalin. Many figures think that everything was very simple and that Hitler could be thrown with hats. I also often write that the war was fought not only on the battlefields, but also through diplomacy, politics and other areas. In the words of the wise foreman in the famous film "The Dawns Here Are Quiet" "war is someone who will sit out for someone, and not when they just shoot."

[Filing]

An article in the spirit of the "liberals". How many, according to the recollections of the Germans themselves, was the date of the beginning of Operation Barbaros transferred? It is not written why the northern and southern districts were met by German troops on June 22 in the trenches with full ammunition; the Central District was not put on full alert.

[ver_]

Quote: Vasily50

REMEMBER
We also remember the tragedy of the beginning of the war and the VICTORY in the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR. We remember with gratitude the warriors of the RED ARMY and what kind of victims the VICTORY cost. As you need to remember with gratitude and about the SUPREME CHIEF COMMANDER about Joseph Stalin VISSARIONOVICH.

... you just don’t have to remove the blame from him - in his country he was the King and God — failure to fulfill his order — death .. Ascended the infallible .. And * shook * his corporal Shiklgruber by himself - do not spoil him ... I knew that the war will be - he didn’t take proper measures ... The Germans paraded in Ukraine ... at the beginning of the war .. The Brest Fortress fought, the border guards fired at the Bug, the Fleet * met * German planes with fire, breaking the order not to give in to provocation .. Its aviation was without gas, communications, and ammunition .. There was a complete mess ...

[Tanya]

.... Tell your children about them. to remember.
Tell the children of the children, so that they also remember ...

[Engineer]

_________________________________________________

[Filing]

Quote: ver_

Quote: Vasily50

REMEMBER
We also remember the tragedy of the beginning of the war and the VICTORY in the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR. We remember with gratitude the warriors of the RED ARMY and what kind of victims the VICTORY cost. As you need to remember with gratitude and about the SUPREME CHIEF COMMANDER about Joseph Stalin VISSARIONOVICH.

... you just don’t have to remove the blame from him - in his country he was the King and God — failure to fulfill his order — death .. Ascended the infallible .. And * shook * his corporal Shiklgruber by himself - do not spoil him ... I knew that the war will be - he didn’t take proper measures ... The Germans paraded in Ukraine ... at the beginning of the war .. The Brest Fortress fought, the border guards fired at the Bug, the Fleet * met * German planes with fire, breaking the order not to give in to provocation .. Its aviation was without gas, communications, and ammunition .. There was a complete mess ...

Dear, read the story not only liberal and Khrushchev. Read the recollection of the command staff of the RED ARMY on June 22, 1941. What surprises me the most is how the industry was evacuated.

[Royalist]

I would recommend: Martirosyan, Kremlin, Yu. Zhukov and Drabkin

[ver_]

... it was Zhukov’s that’s all - but the Supreme was standing in the middle of the pit — in this regard, it’s kind of like a bribe ...., but why the officers were not in the arrangement of the units ... why saboteurs * destroyed * the telephone connection ... etc. Even it was necessary to send planes to find out where the enemy was from the air, and how this enemy destroyed this reconnaissance ... It’s bad when seminarians and even lesser half-educated people lead a huge country ..... Such military figures as Stalin in a normal country would atone for blood ...

[Essex62]

"Normal" countries were gouged out. The impudent people on the island dreamed of shoving the possessed to the east to survive on their own. And for a long time they watched in horror as he rushed through the Union. Will return with Russian resources - the end. Behind the puddle, the Masons were not calm either. Such a nimble sergeant major could rivet the ships too much for the landing.

[vladimirZ]

It’s bad when seminarians and even lesser half-educated people lead a huge country ..... Such military figures as Stalin in a normal country would atone for blood ... - ver_ (faith)

Objective characteristic I.V. Stalin.
Do not transfer the blame of the generals of the Red Army for the disastrous 1941 and the border defeat of the Red Army, as well as the defeat of 1942, to Stalin, who did everything in 10 pre-war years to create an industrial power out of the bast of peasant Russia that could withstand a military strike against essentially all of Europe led by fascist Germany.
We would now need such a "seminarist" of Stalin instead of the liberals of the Yeltsin-Putin spill managers, who for more than a quarter century have not only created something, but also destroyed everything that the great Stalin created.
Only thanks to the leadership of the state of Stalin did the country win this war. If there were such people as Gorbachev, Yeltsin, Putin, etc., incapable leaders of the state, they would have lost, having given up the entire Russian people for annihilation. Is this simple truth hard to understand?

[ver_]

.... the history of the subjunctive mood does not have, do you know such an expression? ... The role of the personality in history .... Well, what if Stalin choked on barbecue and died? Planet Earth left its orbit? .. When Stalin * soaked * - no cataclysms happened ... Put him in the Mausoleum and that's it ..

[vladimirZ]

.... the history of the subjunctive mood does not have - ver_ (faith)

Therefore, it is necessary to treat her objectively and respectfully, and not rudely. Everything in life has a backward response, both to you and to you. Not afraid of a fateful response?

[ver_]

.. you know this expression - * they won’t give less than a platoon, they won’t send Kushki further * ..

[andrew42]

Well, why didn’t it happen? It happened. And how. With a delay. In 1986-1991.

[Alf]

Quote: ver_

I even had to send planes to find out from the air where the enemy is, and how this enemy destroyed this reconnaissance.

Air reconnaissance was, is and will be in the army of any country. By the way, what did the Rovel group do and what did the FV-189 do in the sky?

[BAI]

Probably, in modern Russia there is no such family that would not be somehow connected with the Great Patriotic War. The participants in the war and its victims are among the relatives of almost every citizen of modern Russia.

Well, what can I say?
There is no such family in Russia
Wherever my hero was remembered.
And the eyes of the young soldiers
From photos of wilted look.
This look, like a high court,
For the guys that are growing now.
And the boys can't
Neither lie nor deceive
Not out of the way.

This is one of the certificates about the injuries of the father. In general, there weren’t even any forms in hospitals anymore, they wrote what they had to do. There is help on the back of the quarter menu of the dining room.

[tank64rus]

Everlasting memory. How much I don’t think, I am more and more inclined towards the possibility of betrayal of part of our elite then in 1941. What did not work out in 1941 ended in 1991. Well, it seems that it was not for nothing that Khrushchev so zealously cleaned the archives after he came to power. It is clear that we will never know the true History.

[steelmaker]

Stalin needs to erect monuments “in every yard”, simply because he won the war, restored the country and created the atomic bomb. The main result! Compare EBN-Putin, have already forgotten the shame or are already used to it. And those who harass Stalin are either fools or the fifth column.

[Alf]

Quote: Vasik

the words of the granddaughter of the guard, a guard / gulag or standing in detachments

Keep quiet, pan-legged.

[vladimirZ]

Stalin-Dzhugashvili for 17 years did not prepare properly to repel an external threat .. - ver_ (faith)

Ha ha ha They made fun. Do not own the topic do not write, do not expose yourself, um ... dunno.
I have already written above, look objectively at the historical activity of Stalin, who made literally 10 years from peasant hungry Russia, an industrial superpower that won the greatest and hardest war. We had no other leader of the state, like Stalin IV, capable of withstanding such a blow then, and later.
There would have been Stalin, with a high degree of probability, there would have been neither you, nor the majority of the Russian people destroyed by the Nazis.
I hope you own German fascist plans to destroy the population of the USSR? Or didn’t it reach you?

[Alf]

Quote: ver_

Stalin-Dzhugashvili for 17 years did not prepare properly to repel an external threat ..

And what do you think will be made?

[andrew42]

Yeah. And presented your option. A "seminarist" Dzhugashvili sits, overlaid with books, reference books, does exercises every 2 hours, - is getting ready! With such a slogan simplifying to deb..zma "Stalin was not prepared" only to speak on the Maidan.

[Gopnik]

One of the most tragic dates in the history of Russia. It makes it even more tragic that the blame for this disaster rests with the Soviet political and military leadership.

[volodya]

WE REMEMBER ALL !!!

[komradbuh]

EVERLASTING MEMORY

[timgan777]

REMEMBER
I’ll go and put a candle to the obelisk ..
grandfather started the war in 1942 in Crimea he returned in 1947 having brought from Belarus (Vitebsk) a young wife, my grandmother from my father

[midshipman]

I remember the first bombing, the station "bottom". The end of June, night. My mother and I are standing under a bush, it is raining, and the commander covers my head with his hand. Then Leningrad.
Papa Major, died December 27, 1941 on the Leningrad Front. He created heavy artillery. His colleagues buried him at the Theological Cemetery in a separate grave. And this is the winter of 1941!
The day before yesterday I was at his grave, and my mother was buried there. He told them how we live, bowed, lit candles.

[Royalist]

It seems that the author wrote during Khrushchev. I’m even offended by Ilya

[Gopnik]

Quote: Proxima

History clearly shows that if a state carries out covert mobilization, then it will inevitably fight.
Moreover, in this case, they would still be recognized as the aggressor.

And if he conducts an open one, he does not necessarily fight. But in the end, I still had to fight. And who would recognize the USSR as an aggressor?

[Altona]

Quote: Trilobite Master

And do not exaggerate the value of surprise hit. The main thing that allowed the Germans to win victories at the initial stage of the war was their enormous superiority in all areas of military art over anyone, including the Red Army.

------------------------
They wrote here in some article that the famous tank wedges of Guderian were supported by motorized infantry and a large staff of field artillery, which quickly suppressed foci of resistance, communications, and armored units of the Red Army. The organization of troops at that time was better than that of the Red Army. The Wehrmacht concentrated enormous power on a small section of the front and pierced it. At the same time, the Red Army tried to hold the front along its entire length, smearing all its forces along it.

[voyaka uh]

The Wehrmacht in 1941 did not yet have motorized infantry. Except for motorcycles with wheelchairs. And there was not much field artillery either. T3 tanks, self-propelled guns, machine gun groups with MG34. And trained to shoot and run across infantry with five-shot Mausers. Good communication and flexible tactics.

[Scud]

From the heroes of the past
sometimes there are no names left ...

[anjey]

We remember and grieve and do not want a repeat of another world war

[Imobile]

Quote: vladimirZ

You deviate from the bottom line.
Germany attacked, Stalin did not put in place a hypothetical defense plan, instead, sent to the troops a dumb Directive2, a terrible catastrophe.
... he deserves a military tribunal. - Puncher

You absolutely do not know the history of the outbreak of war.
A terrible catastrophe did not happen because of the actions of Stalin, who at that moment did not lead the troops, but was the head of state and political leader. The catastrophe happened due to the mediocre actions of the leaders of the Red Army - the generals and marshals of that time. Read the historical research on this topic, there are many of them now.
The actions of Stalin, as the head of state, who expressed the political decision in the Directive "not to cross the border", is justified from the same point of view, to finally consolidate the status of the attacking Germany, as the aggressor "treacherously" violated the Non-Aggression Treaty. Is it really incomprehensible to someone? Stalin did not even speak on the radio on June 22, 1941, entrusting this to Molotov, since he left some other political possibilities.
But the actions of the leaders of the Red Army, who did not even have a quick signal about putting the troops in a state of combat readiness, announcing war as a special period, cause bewilderment in their elementary incompetence, in the organization of the same military radio communications.
Well, let alone a "military tribunal" for Stalin, thanks to the leadership of which the state, the armed forces, the Soviet people won the war, in general, only an ignorant person can write.
By the way, this is probably a characteristic feature that in peacetime the Army is led by generals who are unable to lead it in wartime. And this applies not only to the USSR, Russia, the history of many armies confirms this.

To begin with, the order to bring troops to the border is recognized as the most stupid in World War II.
Second, Stalin personally destroyed all sane commanders. And in the fall it was supposed to shoot more commanders, did not have time, Hitler attacked. I think if Hitler postponed the operation for a year, the consequences would be even more catastrophic.

[ramzes1776]

Quote: Imobile

To begin with, the order to bring troops to the border is recognized as the most stupid in World War II.

Order in the studio !!!

Quote: Imobile

Second, Stalin personally destroyed all sane commanders. And in the fall it was supposed to shoot more commanders, did not have time, Hitler attacked. I think if Hitler postponed the operation for a year, the consequences would be even more catastrophic.

This is sane type Tukhachevsky and K ???
Yes, an alternative story from Khrushchev and even diluted with Rezunami 90s makes itself felt, he almost at one time was not led.

[Alf]

Quote: Imobile

Second, Stalin personally destroyed all sane commanders.

Yes, yes, there is evidence that he personally stood in the corridor with a revolver, and pushed commanders in batches of him, and he shouted Patrons to me, cartridges, but start up more and more often!

[kalibr]

He simply put the corresponding signature on the corresponding document ... They are preserved and the signature is readable. And how much they smacked her is also known!

[vladimirZ]

it was Stalin who personally destroyed all sane commanders. And in the fall it was supposed to shoot more commanders, did not have time, Hitler attacked. - Imobile (Igor)

Do not own historical material. Who are the brilliant generals who were destroyed "personally by Stalin"? The heroes of the civil war - non-commissioners and vahmistra, warrant officers who sat in captivity of the First World War (Tukhachevsky)?
Tukhachevsky - the organizer of the Trotskyite military conspiracy, the author of the stupid strategy of "mass onslaught" on the enemy, from the filing of which the Red Army satiated with tens of thousands of uncontrolled command tanks, not equipped with communications, inefficient artillery (universal artillery and non-responsive guns), neglect of military communications, etc.?
Or Marshal Blucher, unable to organize a proper effective rebuff to the Japanese in the Far East?
Or Aviation General Rychagov, who made a claim to Stalin that he was forcing the pilots to "fly on coffins", who ordered the radio to be removed from the planes, because unscreened engines give a crack in the pilots' headphones, and interfere with the piloting of the planes, instead of solving the problem of screening engines that led to inefficiencies in using aviation in war and defeat?
Or the associates of Army General Pavlov, in fact a traitor who disorganized the troops of the OZapVO, and in fact opened the way to Moscow?
The defeat of the OZapVO, not led by the command to hostilities, says that not all the 1937 conspirators were removed from the Red Army, which should be removed.

[Mikhail Zubkov]

Barbus,
You are mistaken. There were 2 “plans for covering the state border” - the first was Shaposhnikov, the second - Zhukov and Tymoshenko. The first was defensive, with a possible organized retreat from the border of 200-250 km. It was approved by all military, party and state supreme bodies. But Tymoshenko and Zhukov in December 1940 developed their own, in the form of "red envelopes" lowered into the headquarters of military districts, armies, corps and divisions. This plan proceeded from the concept of "preemptive strike", which was sharply rejected by Stalin in May 1941. This plan of the General Staff and Non-Commercial Organizations was neither discussed nor approved until 22.06.41. Moreover, in January 1941, the headquarters of the districts, armies, corps and divisions were ordered by May 1941 to develop and submit for approval their plans and proposals for covering the border. The headquarters gave such proposals (defensive!) By May, but their statements did not wait until 22.06.41. The "red envelopes" opened at 2 or 3 a.m. sent troops to places of concentration "for powerful counterattack" of the type in the directions of Warsaw and Koenigsberg. It’s good that very few people managed to get to the dislocation areas indicated in the envelopes - these places are already from 4.00 on 22.06.41. kneaded by German aviation, to which such combat missions were assigned on flight charts of the crews of bombers and attack aircraft on 18.06.41/XNUMX/XNUMX.

[geniy]

And the fact that Zhukov’s wrong plans were sent to all the front-line districts, and in contrast, the correct plans were not even discussed and accepted - isn’t this the direct fault of the country's leadership, or rather, Stalin’s personal fault?

[andrew42]

The answer is already in your question. No, not direct, not fault. "Comrade Zhukov, what is it that you played there in your red concerts? Yesterday. And tomorrow, what about today?" - so it was necessary to work ?? Cleverly invented.

[Old warrior]

Eternal Memory to the Heroes who fell for the Freedom and Independence of Our Homeland! We should all be ashamed. And will there be forgiveness to us?

[AshiSolo]

I read, but in my head "Russian Road" Rasteryaeva is spinning ...

[Sultanbek]

Quote: Olgovich

But nothing that this army already ....6 years by birth? And just a few years ago, she had no fleet, no tanks, no planes? Unlike....

The Wehrmacht did not start from scratch. In the 16 incomplete years after Versailles, hundreds of thousands of “contract soldiers” passed through the Reichswehr, who at the right time formed the non-commissioned backbone of the mass army. It was all on the sergeants. As soon as the sergeant corps was exhausted in the Russian expanses, the German army ended

[ver_]

..in revolutionary times in Transbaikalia, the punitive Cossack detachment of Captain Rubtsov caught up and destroyed the partisan detachment already in Yakutia .. -they could neither * come off *, nor confuse the traces, nor lure in an ambush ..

[bandabas]

Eternal Memory to those who took the first blow. And, Glory to those who avenged.

[Seal]

The directive entered the troops too late, when there was no time left for the actual bringing of units and subunits to a state of alert.

Kind of weird. What, the "directive" is to blame for everything? That she herself was late somewhere on the road in the county?
It is interesting that in his memoirs Zhukov writes that: At 00:30, JV Stalin called and asked if the directive had gone. "Zhukov wrote that he replied, I would remind at 00:30 that:" Yes, I left. " .
But on the recently laid out cipher program received in the call, it is time to receive it - 01:45. But the time of cipher program departure and time of its arrival must coincide. Well, or be different for a minute or two. And then a delay of one and a half hours. And it was the most necessary one and a half hours. So it’s on the ciphergram that the district received it at 01:45, and in the army of the district the Headquarters of the district, or more precisely, the Front Headquarters, sent it at 02:25 and at 02:35. While these encryptions reached the armies (and if they went to the armies as long as they did from the General Staff to the districts, it means they reached after the outbreak of war), while they were decrypted there, while they were again encrypted for transmission to the corps and some divisions ... And the commander of the ZOV (Western Front) D. Pavlov was shot including (although mostly mostly) because he did not have time to put the district on alert according to the Directive.

However, in the Headquarters of the South-Western Front, thanks to Baghramyan and Purkaev, the encryption from the General Staff was generally received only by noon on June 22. You see, they organized the relocation of the KOVO Headquarters from Kiev to the location of the Southwestern Front Headquarters headquarters in Tarnopol, so that the operational department of the KOVO headquarters, headed by Baghramyan, who also took the encryption department with him, left Kiev by car in the evening of June 21, and to Tarnopol Kirponos Baghramyan with his operational and encryption departments got only at noon on June 22.
This South-Western Front was just lucky that the Germans struck the main blow in Belarus.

[Alf]

Quote: Seal

It is interesting that in his memoirs Zhukov writes that: At 00:30, JV Stalin called and asked if the directive had gone. "Zhukov wrote that he replied, I would remind at 00:30 that:" Yes, I left. " .

Which directive is number 1 or number 2? This one? Read it carefully. Withdraw troops, but DO NOT perform any actions until further notice.

[Alf]

But the directive N2, which from 7-15 to 22.06 has just begun to be drawn up. Let's imagine. At 7-15 a certain brilliant just sat down to WRITE it. Wrote, she was taken to a communications center, encrypted, transferred to the headquarters of the fronts. There they accepted, decrypted, and began to draw up instructions for the lower command. AS TIME WENT. When did these "wise instructions" begin to follow?
Further. What are these phrases-With all my strength to collapse? And bomb with powerful blows?
In theory, when receiving a message about crossing the border, the General Staff should give an order -Open the red packets and carry out option number 1 or number 2 or number such-and-such. But do not write "collapse with all your might."

[ver_]

Quote: tank64rus

Everlasting memory. How much I don’t think, I am more and more inclined towards the possibility of betrayal of part of our elite then in 1941. What did not work out in 1941 ended in 1991. Well, it seems that it was not for nothing that Khrushchev so zealously cleaned the archives after he came to power. It is clear that we will never know the true History.

http://go.mail.ru/redir?via_page=1&type=sr&am
p; redir = eJzLKCkpsNLXzy-pyixLzNYrKtXPzCtJLUotzstP1
S9IzS_ISdUvyc_LTtQtKM1JzU0tSc7ITE7UTQSK6DMwGJoaWV
qYGFoYmTKUeEsWSETflffW3fnjxzo5HJwG_jyE2
..it was abominable - it’s very unpleasant to read .. But you won’t erase words from the song .. At each level there was enough of everything ..

[ver_]

Quote: Alf

Quote: ver_

Stalin-Dzhugashvili for 17 years did not prepare properly to repel an external threat ..

And what do you think will be made?

... I will * drop * you now * about Tonka machine gunner ... So - in passing about the beginning of the war - already horror ... http://go.mail.ru/redir? via_page = 1 & type
= sr & redir = eJzLKCkpsNLXzy-pyixLzNYrKtXPzCtJLUo
tzstP1S9IzS_ISdUvyc_LTtQtKM1JzU0tSc7ITE7UTQSK6DMw
GJoaWVqYGFoYmTKUeEsWSETflfW3fnjxzo5HJwG_jyE2 What kind of army was created if this was possible ... I would like to know your opinion ..

[VS]

"" The impending attack on Nazi Germany by the Soviet Union in Moscow since the end of 1940 has been reported by residents of Soviet intelligence. However, the Soviet leadership did not pay due attention to intelligence reports, especially since a non-aggression pact was signed between Germany and the Soviet Union, and in addition, information was regularly coming to Moscow about the forthcoming landing of the Nazi army on the British Isles. Believing that if a large-scale war with Britain began, Germany would not attack the Soviet Union, the Soviet leadership did not believe in the possibility of a war in 1941. ""

- how tired are those who repeat mantras about how Stalin did not believe intelligence ((The author contradicts himself in black (((If he didn’t believe, then why did the troops begin to withdraw in MAY? So that they themselves could attack - July 6: ?? )))

[VS]

Quote: Alf

cannon fat
A masterpiece, however. Was that veteran an hour away from Ukraine?

so called gun lubrication)))

[VS]

Quote: Alf

The number of the Wehrmacht on 22.06.41-4 million 329 thousand people.
The number of the Red Army on 22.06.41/3/61-XNUMX million XNUMX thousand people.

not this way ))
The number of the Wehrmacht on 22.06.41/4/329 - - on our borders - XNUMX million XNUMX thousand people.
The number of the Red Army on 22.06.41- - in the western districts - 3 million 61 thousand people

[VS]

Quote: Alf

It is interesting that in his memoirs Zhukov writes that: At 00:30, JV Stalin called and asked if the directive had gone. "Zhukov wrote that he replied, I would remind at 00:30 that:" Yes, I left. " .
Which directive is number 1 or number 2? This one? Read it carefully. Withdraw troops, but DO NOT perform any actions until further notice.

This is a directive for FULL combat readiness) This is a directive DIRECTLY to Pavlov in the ZAPOVO))) Written on the basis of deer. without GSh-Zhukov number from 22.20)))
Next was the deer. No. 1- at the opening of the package - at 2.30)) The border in this case does not cross - without a SEPARATE indication.

Deere 2 - on the actions of the Air Force, first of all - with a ban, the border has yet to cross ..

And here is the deer. 3 - this is the directive and on the implementation of the pre-war Plan of the General Staff)))

[VS]

Quote: Trilobite Master

Stalin was not aware of the exact date of the invasion. I have already written about this above. Oh prepared for his reflection, but hoped that there was still time, that is, did not expect a strike in the near future. Hitler in 1941 managed to fool him.

and why then he led the army of the internal districts and the MAE and the divisions of the division from June 8-11-18 ??)))

[VS]

Quote: Seal

on the recently laid out cipher program received in the call, the time for its receipt is 01:45. But the time of cipher program departure and time of its arrival must coincide. Well, or be different for a minute or two. And then a delay of one and a half hours. And it was the most necessary one and a half hours.

not so .. THIS directive is a Pavlov’s directive)) At 1.30 he read the decrypted deer. Zhukov, gave birth to this option and at 2.25 threw it in the army))) At the same time, he raised the army headquarters by 1 o’clock already but the soldiers slept in ZAPOVO further))) And at 2.30 Pavlov began to give a command to open the red packets) )))

[VS]

Quote: Seal

Pavlov was shot including (although mostly mostly) for not having time to put the district on alert according to the Directive.

not so)) He was spanked for negligence - because before June 21 he had done nothing to bring him to BG))) ON SUCH charge, they almost shot him and the Operations Department of the ZAPOVO)))

[VS]

Quote: Imobile

the order to bring troops to the border is recognized as the most stupid in World War II.

WHOM is this ??))

[ver_]

Quote: vladimirZ

.... the history of the subjunctive mood does not have - ver_ (faith)

Therefore, it is necessary to treat her objectively and respectfully, and not rudely. Everything in life has a backward response, both to you and to you. Not afraid of a fateful response?

... I’m not even afraid at all - because people like me - the bottom of the pyramid of power - are simple executors of laws and decisions ... We are the majority in kind, but the influence on the decisions that are * generated * at the top of the power pyramid is zero ..

[vladimirZ]

... I’m not even afraid at all - because people like me - the bottom of the pyramid of power - are simple executors of laws and decisions ... We are the majority in kind, but the influence on the decisions that are * generated * at the top of the power pyramid is zero .. - ver_ (faith)

This just says that you do not understand the essence of what is happening.
An example, please, with a mass character. The post-Stalin period was characterized by frenzied anti-Stalinism, which grew into anti-Sovietism, including among a large number of “lower-class” individuals, such as you.
What did this lead to in the form of a response back negative reaction? To the destruction of a socially just state, the return of predatory capitalism, and the curtailment of social programs for the people, including for people like you; a general reduction in the number of people — the very “bottom” you are writing about from its premature extinction.
On an individual basis, for each person, after his negativity to someone, there always follows a response of fate, in the form of a negative reaction to you, the one to whom your negative was directed, or if he cannot answer, for some reason, for example, as with I.V. Stalin or V.I. Lenin, their supporters, and the very JUSTICE OF LIFE, which regulates the balance in the world of good and bad. If you want it is a philosophy of life, but it works.

[ver_]

... the lower classes both worked and work .., but the * commissars * and * generals of the sand pits * cannot be quiet ... They are talking about one and the other * event * - power and money .... basically one and the same thing .. More to steal and be out of court ... Well, how did Stalin in the last years of his life - half a year at different resorts and rest houses ..., half a year, Hans .. I wonder who led? ..

[ver_]

Quote: steel maker

Stalin needs to erect monuments “in every yard”, simply because he won the war, restored the country and created the atomic bomb. The main result! Compare EBN-Putin, have already forgotten the shame or are already used to it. And those who harass Stalin are either fools or the fifth column.

... you know the proverb - * we plowed * ..- and one in the field is not a warrior ..

[kalibr]

Quote: vladimirZ

The catastrophe happened due to the mediocre actions of the leaders of the Red Army - the generals and marshals of the time.

And who appointed them to high posts? A person who is truly talented with himself and surrounds him is not afraid to look bad against their background. Mediocrity itself and surrounds mediocrity. With them you can feel superior even in the bathhouse!

[Molot1979]

Mr. Polonsky, it’s time to already know that intelligence has reported many dates of the outbreak of war. How should the Soviet leadership know that June 22 is the same date? It seems that there were no predictions. But even if Stalin had decided three days before the war that this time everything would converge. What could really be done in these three days? The country did not have time to seriously increase the density of troops at the border. And without this, and sitting in the fortifications, fighting back was unrealistic.