To be or not to be a tank "Nota": reflections of the Ukrainian expert

The actual fiasco of the Ukrainian tank the teams on the T-84U Oplot during the recent Strong Europe Tank Challenge 2018 competitions raised the issue of modernizing tank forces with renewed vigor article by Ukrainian expert Mikhail Zhirokhov.

The expert notes that the declared “Oplot” for the competitions is only a deep modernization of the T-64, T-72 and T-80y of the Soviet T-80 UD. And all the other Ukrainian tanks - one or another modification.

Nevertheless, Ukraine has at least one real domestic project - it is “conditionally Soviet” “477 Object”, also known as “Boxer” or “Hammer,” the author writes. Work on it began in the 1980-ies in Kharkov. The program received state funding, but great results were not achieved due to poorly developed Soviet industry: the tank was planned to be “stuffed” with electronics, the creation of which was only at an early stage.

As a result, the sample turned out raw - without the sighting system and automatic loader. Next - the collapse of the USSR, put an end to this program.

A new surge of interest in the project belongs to the mid-90-x. At that time, according to the expert, Kharkov designers were offered to work in the interests of the Russian Defense Ministry. It was supposed to modify the "Object 477A" using the updated systems. So the project 477А1 with the name “Note” was born.

“A special feature of the car was the original half-deployed cannon. Instead of the usual tower on the chase of the hull, a dome of reduced size was placed with a large central unit, inside of which there was a gun breech and automatic loaders, ”the article says. In this case, 152-mm gun decided not to put.

In addition, Zhirokhov writes, Kharkov engineers laid the advanced weapon control complex for the project, which included sights with optical and thermal channels, as well as a developed on-board computer, satellite navigation system, target identification tools, and so on.

Work continued until the beginning of the 2000-s. Then Moscow abandoned the project and stopped funding. Search for another foreign investor did not give any results. The work stopped and the project was frozen.

In 2015, Kharkiv again began to actively promote the theme of bringing to mind the "Notes" in order to organize the serial production of the tank. They even wanted to demonstrate the layout at the parade in 2016. But something went wrong, and the show was postponed for this year, for the Independence Day of Ukraine.

According to the author, there will be no problems with the organization of mass production. But who will take up the creation of an armament control system is not yet clear: after all, it is obvious that it will have to be created from scratch on a new component base.

Although, in the presence of such “magnificent sources” and the political will of the leadership, the issue of finalizing the tank can be solved in 5-7 years, the expert concludes.
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  1. +11
    20 June 2018 13: 37
    "Ukrainian expert" is already ridiculous and you can not read ....
    1. +2
      20 June 2018 17: 35
      Instead of a note, you get a treble clef. Crooked and bent laughing
      1. +2
        20 June 2018 20: 30
        Do not be so dismissive of Kharkov and other specialists. These cunning politicians created enmity between us and the Ukrainians, but the people are the same, only their brains "scream" for both them and us ... The Americans will not push forward the Ukrainian development, they will push their own, (capitalism trades from politics to the lower shirt ) ... According to this, hopes are the last to die, and with this project it is not otherwise ..
        1. 0
          21 June 2018 21: 10
          How many did not communicate with the people, from Kiev, most of them saw themselves with the EU. So it's time to forget about all the "fraternal" peoples and promote the interests of only their
        2. 0
          21 June 2018 22: 32
          There are already no brains in Kharkov ... there are only CHIEFS ... who have sat their seats ... that is, not distinguished by their intelligence and quick wits .. and there are a lot of designers who are ready to do what they say .. but to say, no one ... Unfortunately, the Morozov School has died.
  2. +16
    20 June 2018 13: 38
    Phrases phrases))) "Conditionally Soviet .." once in the 80s, development began means Soviet.
    But the results could not be achieved due to the Soviet undeveloped electronics.
    So write: the great Ukrainians created a brilliant project, but the Russians, as always, ruined everything. We did not complete the microchips and did not allocate money. For almost three decades now you have been living without the hated Russia, and neither scientific nor economic breakthroughs are visible. Only for Western loot can Tu160 be cut into pieces, and the remainder of Soviet weapons sold to third countries.
    1. MPN
      20 June 2018 13: 59
      In 1984, a key change was made to the design of the promising tank, which allowed for a significant separation from existing tanks - the adoption of a fundamental decision on the use of a powerful 152 mm gun.
      Replacing the concept of 152mm with 125mm takes the tank back on its idea.
      In the office at Shomin, they reported on the tank, heated debates began about what caliber the gun should have. There was a 125 mm remote gun at the Rebel and there has been talk of increasing the caliber for a long time. There were unfounded disputes about which caliber to accept - 140mm or 152mm. At that moment, General Litvinenko, the head of NTK GRAU, spoke very competently and clearly, drew a schedule and in just three minutes proved how effective the 152mm caliber is for the tank. From this moment on, the 152 mm caliber was adopted for the Boxer and they never returned to this question.
      In order to increase the firepower of the tank to destroy ground and air targets, the tank received, in addition to the main armament, an automatic cannon. Guidance and stabilization of the gun vertically independent, horizontally - together with the tower. The placement of the coaxial machine gun, the placement of the crew’s viewing instruments, etc. was changed. Using a 152 mm remote gun, on the one hand, made it possible to reduce the turret’s profile and reduce the reserved space, on the other hand, it had to be closed from external influences by an armored casing and it became half-out, having received an external reservation.
      The adopted technical solutions for the tank made it possible to provide a significant separation from the existing generation of vehicles. At the same time, chasing the maximum technical characteristics in terms of firepower and security, while exceeding even the requirements of the gas customer, I had to sacrifice the weight of the machine, which reached a critical point and forced to make individual units from titanium. So, titanium was used to make equipment for self-digging, container covers for dynamic protection blocks, and a number of other elements. All technical problems that were arising were solved and gradually they left, but this required time, sometimes very significant. Design and development tests continued in 89-90, in 1992 state tests of an experimental batch of machines were planned. Even before the completion of the GI, the customer required the manufacture of an experimental batch of 50 machines. But, in the end, the tank was brought at a very unfortunate moment of the collapse of the USSR, when the priority was the survival of enterprises, rather than expensive promising developments.
      A promising tank was developed with the involvement of enterprises of the entire former USSR. So the 2А73 gun and its ammunition were developed and manufactured on the territory of the Russian Federation, therefore the implementation of the project within the framework of insufficient funding for the Armed Forces in Ukraine is currently difficult without external sources, although attempts were made to create the 152 mm Kiev Kiev-A gun. A number of realized for ed. 477 and its variants of elements, including the TIUS, were introduced on the Oplot tank.

      Manufactured more than 10 samples. A reserve has been created for the manufacture of a pre-production batch. Tanks are stored at the testing base of KHKBM (UPI). Also, three samples are located on the territory of the Russian Federation. It is likely that the demonstration of Armata tanks in the Russian Federation renewed interest in the promising KHKBM tank both from the developing country, as an option for a joint project with foreign customers.
    2. +1
      20 June 2018 17: 59
      that neither scientific nor economic breakthroughs are visible.

      - they haven’t gone so far forward that you simply don’t see their jerk into the bright future
      1. +1
        20 June 2018 19: 22
        There is a jerk and it is visible.
        Just he
        "has a wonderful property of becoming invisible to any person who sits out of place or is impenetrably stupid" (Tse).
        1. 0
          20 June 2018 20: 12
          and here the Cohles bring this quotation and laugh at the whole world, even at the sponsors.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +3
    20 June 2018 13: 39
    More recently, there was a good article about the Boxer project. I read it with pleasure
  5. +2
    20 June 2018 13: 40
    the Nazis do not need tanks - they have bad thoughts from this
  6. +5
    20 June 2018 13: 42
    To be or not to be the Nota tank: thoughts of a Ukrainian expert
    Definitely DO NOT BE ... There is too much Russian in this tank to become Ukrainian.
    1. +1
      21 June 2018 22: 34
      I agree completely
  7. +3
    20 June 2018 13: 44
    According to the author, there will be no problems with the organization of mass production.
    one of the tales for the village
    1. 0
      21 June 2018 22: 36
      Yeah, in order to organize the preparation of production, it’s necessary to make so many new stands that in Soviet times they built new buildings in Malinovka, since it wasn’t wise to cut stands set up for the T-80UD ... and it will definitely be many more millions of dollars, but it’s not task ... there is no department of the Chief Technologist who would develop new stands ... there are no people there ... for 20 years now
  8. +2
    20 June 2018 13: 44
    It was smooth on paper that only the ravines failed, everything left by the USSR was destroyed and destroyed, and it’s not the Sumerian mind to invent it.
  9. +2
    20 June 2018 13: 55
    Yes, what kind of Note is there that they just can do. Here beg and crap, then they have no equal. And something to create, no, not to be Note.
  10. +3
    20 June 2018 13: 59
    The parade in Kiev has already passed - they are late!
    1. +2
      20 June 2018 14: 12
      not yet - there was no order
  11. +2
    20 June 2018 14: 27
    The article is about nothing.
  12. +3
    20 June 2018 14: 36
    "According to the author, there will be no problems with the organization of mass production." The small-town tire fitting will not ruin it
  13. +4
    20 June 2018 15: 05
    Wow, damn it! "Because of the poorly developed Soviet industry ..." - a super-expert expert ...
  14. +2
    20 June 2018 15: 09
    Quote: Amateur
    "According to the author, there will be no problems with the organization of mass production." The small-town tire fitting will not ruin it

    Yeah ... In Ukraine, there will be no problems. Well this is not Soviet primitive industry.
  15. +3
    20 June 2018 15: 10
    Unreal. No, in terms of implementation, it is real, unrealistic in terms of production, the cost of a unit of equipment and in terms of orders. Mom will cost you not to worry, the APU will not pull such a tank, it is hardly possible to attract third-party customers again because of the high cost and non-standard nature of the general scheme and non-roll-over. Project in one word
    1. +2
      20 June 2018 15: 24
      Unrealistic due to R&D. Urine will not be able to build a new tank from scratch. Opportunities only to modify what is enough, nothing more.
      1. 0
        21 June 2018 16: 51
        So R&D is almost complete, judging by the article. Just launching a series will not be realistic. Start with at least a gun. Ukraine does not have one of its own, but the Soviet ones in this caliber have howitzer barrel lengths. And it is impossible to make a 152 mm tank gun on the Soviet legacy.
  16. +3
    20 June 2018 15: 40
    You can decide. Who will do it - and from what. And from here a question - what money. Let me remind you that deliveries of armored personnel carriers to Iraq were thwarted because instead of import armor they shoved Ukrainian on them - there is no money to import, and it turned out that Ukraine has forgotten how to make armor.
    What are the sighting systems, there was no armor, and the allumoprom closed in 15
  17. +2
    20 June 2018 16: 13
    But what is it that they suddenly learned to make armor (not cracking, although at a certain thickness it may not burst right away) and 152 mm guns
    they couldn’t scrape together the strongholds and there the smaller caliber was there and the old corps was no longer
    1. 0
      21 June 2018 22: 37
      There is no engine, there is no transmission, There is no gun ... There is no SLA ... there are no shells ... continue to continue or so it is clear.
  18. +2
    20 June 2018 16: 58
    old chassis, engine ... "real domestic")) of the 80s of the USSR and then Russian. and so yes, purely Ukrainian
  19. +2
    20 June 2018 19: 20
    "Although, with such" excellent sources "and the political will of the leadership, the issue of finalizing the tank can be solved in 5-7 years, the expert concludes."
  20. 0
    20 June 2018 20: 25
    Such a freak. Andrei Nikolaevich Tupolev would have said the wrong thing. (in his opinion, the plane should fly if beautiful)
    Clearly, it’s NOT EAGLE, but CHICKEN,
  21. 0
    20 June 2018 23: 26
    What tanks are Ukraine now ?! They cannot do armored personnel carriers yet ...
  22. 0
    21 June 2018 06: 42
    Will Ukraine be in five years?
  23. +1
    21 June 2018 08: 15
    Let all the boxer fans look at this car in the context. The crew is seated with shells. This is not even a T-64, everything is much more interesting.
    Cramming 40 152mm rounds into a slightly larger body is a nontrivial thing. And also the BC for the 30mm gun needs to be put somewhere. And at least a third of the BC should be in AZ.
    1. 0
      22 June 2018 13: 54
      Actually, on Note, the weight of the BC was put in drums 10 in the tower and two of 12 alongside the MV in the case
      1. 0
        22 June 2018 15: 05
        Can a picture be scaled? 34 152mm shell, in three reels.
        1. 0
          23 June 2018 13: 28
          There are pictures on the internet ... or do you need sectional drawings?
          The SS stamp was removed from the project .. but C .. remained ... so a search on the Internet will help you see all the secrets.
          1. 0
            24 June 2018 05: 20
            I saw them, I did not believe. The mechvod between the drums with shells, the commander and the gunner cover another drum.
            Nobody will ever begin to produce a tank with such a stack.
            1. 0
              24 June 2018 10: 36
              Let’s take into account all the same ... that 447A1 was developed in the late 80s more than 30 years ago and the layout at that time suited everyone, now, with the development of the element base, it is possible to create an uninhabited BO ... but the shot length will come out again more than 1800mm ... so there’s more to think about. Or return, as in Armata to a 125mm caliber or the creation of an intermediate 130-140mm.
        2. 0
          23 June 2018 14: 28

          Read the entire article in full ... but this is more like nonsense .. no one will do anything already ... there are no specialists, and those who could not or left the design bureau.
  24. 0
    21 June 2018 19: 46
    In Ukraine, soon there will be only experts in the "field" of jumping with a rope and without it.
    1. 0
      21 June 2018 22: 38
      Already left ....
      1. 0
        22 June 2018 19: 05
        Quote: tank-master
        Already left ....

        That's not all. Apparently further it will be even more “fun” and it is difficult to imagine when all this will end and whether it will end at all.
        1. 0
          23 June 2018 14: 24
          It will end and all the skakuases will run to Germany ... to the social network and will shout about how they offended them .... despite the fact that they are already trying to send young people to study in Germany .. or, in extreme cases, to Poland ... so soon Skakuasy will become a headache for Germany .. hold on.
          1. 0
            24 June 2018 17: 02
            Quote: tank-master
            It will end and all the skakuases will run to Germany ... to the social network and will shout about how they offended them .... despite the fact that they are already trying to send young people to study in Germany .. or, in extreme cases, to Poland ... so soon Skakuasy will become a headache for Germany .. hold on.

            There are more than enough of them in Germany and Poland. The German authorities will catch one of them illegally or semi-legally working, they will be expelled from the country, and they, like cockroaches through all the cracks, will return to Germany again. So far, no one was going to plant them on the social. However, it should be noted that horses, unlike refugees with BV, still work in Germany. Their German authorities did not put refugees on their necks as refugees and do not spend 21-23 billion euros a year on refugees.
            1. 0
              24 June 2018 19: 06
              Soon they will run .. who does not like to work .. and figs you catch them ... it's Skakuasy ...
              1. 0
                24 June 2018 21: 29
                Quote: tank-master
                Soon they will run .. who does not like to work .. and figs you catch them ... it's Skakuasy ...

                If these horses begin to really mess up here, they will quickly take up. For the first time they can be sent out of the country, and then they will be planted for several months.

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