Can the defense industry become the engine of the Russian economy?

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At one of the first meetings, which was organized by Vladimir Putin, having assumed the presidential post, they discussed, including the issue of implementing the State Defense Order-2012. The president recalled that 5,5 is already behind the months of the current year, and the realization of the state defense order comes with a big slip. Putin announced a figure related to the signing of contracts in the field of the military-industrial complex - 70%. At the same time, some experts claim that even this unimpressive percentage is somewhat overestimated, since some contracts already signed were unexpectedly decided to revise and send agreements for revision.

Can the defense industry become the engine of the Russian economy?
Assembly and commissioning production of OJSC "Kurganmashzavod"


The meeting included, among others, Acting Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov, as well as the acting president. Deputy Prime Minister of the Russian Federation, responsible for the implementation of the state defense order, Dmitry Rogozin. Vladimir Putin gave a very tough assessment of the work of the ministry in terms of preparing contracts for conclusion and demanded to report as soon as possible that GOZ-2012 came to 100% signing contracts between customers and manufacturers of new military equipment.

However, before that, all the strict requirements of the Russian President (at that time, Dmitry Medvedev) about the need to comply with the deadlines for concluding all contracts for the state defense order, to put it mildly, were ignored. There were no intelligible explanations as to why the military department could not find a common language with the manufacturers of new weapons. The only thing that both parties have always operated on as attempts to justify themselves is “they did not agree on the price”. Whether such an interpretation will calm Vladimir Putin in the office of President is the probability of this being extremely small. Perhaps, in the near future, the new Russian Government will have to work with a constant focus on the defense industry. After all, the sums that are allocated for the development of the defense industry complex are unprecedented for our country today. No other industry receives such generous budget funding. That is why we can expect that the new Russian Prime Minister will be puzzled to link the modernization of the economy directly with the financing of the military-industrial sphere.

As many experts are sure, if the DIC system is to a certain extent open, then every ruble invested in it can turn into 8-10 rubles. This is due not only to the ability to export samples of competitive Russian military equipment abroad, but also to the fact that as a result of the development of funds allocated for the defense industry, hundreds of thousands of jobs may appear in civilian areas. For example, the need to create a new model of Armata armored vehicles mobilizes not only design engineers, fitters, programmers, but also those involved in iron ore mining, processing, smelting, transportation. When implementing the state defense order in Russia, a unique production cluster may emerge, which will be a close integration of military and civilian specialists. In modern conditions, any isolation in this area will not be able to lead to positive results, no matter how self-giving the specialists of enterprises demonstrate.

In addition, the integral principle of the implementation of the State Defense Order is a serious step in solving the problem of reducing unemployment. Let's not forget that the ambitions of the Russian authorities in this regard are very high - 25 of millions of new jobs over the next 10-12 years. This figure looks somewhat utopian if we separate the military and civilian economic systems from each other. But only at one their junction up to a million new vacancies can arise. The main thing is that all these new vacancies should be aimed exclusively at the production of the final product in the form of the newest weapons, and not into the next bureaucratic army feeding on the financing of the modernization of the Russian Armed Forces.

It is worth recalling that the federal budget for the implementation of the state defense order for 2012 is planned to allocate the amount of 1 trillion 769 billion rubles to 2013, and 2014 trillion 2 billion 236 trillion 2 billion rubles 625 and XNUMX, respectively. As you can see, there is room for maneuvers for corrupt officials, especially since financial investments in the defense industry have recently been quite actively affected by corruption schemes. That is why the new Russian Government, which has not yet been formed, will have to solve a super task of finding ways out of the prolonged impasse in the modernization of the Russian army.

However, some military experts are confident that such allocated funds to increase the competitiveness of Russian equipment is not enough. The arguments of the experts with the above views on the level of funding are as follows: Russia over the past 20 has managed to lose too many markets for its military equipment, and to return these markets again, you need to produce weapon really high quality. And more money is needed to develop it again. Plus, another problem looms: many manufacturing enterprises have lost the backbone of qualified specialists, and those who remain continue to operate the production equipment of the "sixty-bearded" years, on which generations of Soviet aviation and sea vessels, armored vehicles. For natural reasons, in order to update only one machine tool park at the factories of the defense industry, additional funds will be needed. And to increase the incentive for workers and engineers in the development of new military equipment, you will also have to fork out and fork out by no means stingy ...

And this expert opinion is hard to ignore. With all due respect to the Russian military industry, many markets for military equipment are indeed lost. And the losses occurred far not only due to the fault of the countries that reoriented their areas of cooperation to the North Atlantic Alliance (Poland, Romania, the Czech Republic and other countries of Eastern Europe), but also due to the repeated increase in bureaucratic barriers to close cooperation. It is a series of bureaucratic delays and price differences that scare away even those customers of Russian military equipment who have always been considered to be oriented towards Russia (China, India, Vietnam and a number of other countries).

Russian manufacturers to sell their weapons becomes really more difficult. Today, even the concluded contracts cannot protect the manufacturer from the fact that the customer suddenly refuses to purchase. There are always reasons to terminate the contract: there is a price that is unexpectedly unsuitable, and the quality of the products produced, and claims of difficulties during operation.

If we talk about the percentage in terms of sales of military equipment of the Russian company “Rosoboronexport”, then Asia and the Pacific region are in the first place. About 43% of all foreign sales accounted for by such countries as Malaysia, Indonesia, India, China, Vietnam and a number of others. After a series of coups and insurgencies in the Middle East and North Africa, Russian arms exports in this direction have declined significantly. The seemingly “regular customer” in terms of purchases of Russian weapons, Libya, has actually been lost. Difficult is the situation in Syria. Where the Orange Revolutions didn’t have time to do their work, the sanctions that impede the implementation of even previously concluded contracts work. One of the sanctions examples is Iran, to which Russia was never able to deliver C-300 complexes.

Europe and North America account for only about 2% of exports, most of which is exports to Belarus. But the West has repeatedly expressed proposals to impose sanctions on the supply of arms to this country. Sometimes it seems that Western sanctions are a very effective tool to remove Russia from the defense market of a particular country.

True, some experts believe that nothing terrible is happening for Russian exports. In particular, the correspondents of Komsomolskaya Pravda published information that sales of Russian weapons over the past 12 years have increased by more than 3 times. In 2012, sales can range from 12 to 13 billions of dollars. On the one hand, these figures inspire, but on the other - give reason for reflection. Firstly, it is lately that customers have increasingly begun to make claims against Russian weapons, and secondly, the indicated rates of sales are based on contracts that were concluded in advance. Will 2011 not be a peak year, or will sales decline? ..

In addition, you can cite figures comparing the sales of military equipment of the USSR in 1990 year and the volume of arms sales to Russia now. The USSR sold weapons for the official amount of 16 billions of dollars. But the USSR did not allow all of its deliveries to be disclosed, so real incomes could be many times larger than those that were published, so to speak, for mass consumption.

So, the dynamics of sales of Russian weapons abroad, there is, but there is something to strive for. In recent years, the Russian defense industry has steadily settled in second place after the United States in terms of arms sales in the world.

But one thing is the export of weapons abroad, and quite another is the equipping of our own army with high-quality military equipment. Here to the level of the Soviet Union we are still very far away. The main thing is that the solution of the problem of real modernization of the Russian army through the allocation of solid budgetary funds does not turn into a black hole for the Russian economy. The new Russian Cabinet of Ministers will have to seriously break its head over this too.
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  1. Aleksey67
    +6
    12 May 2012 08: 05
    As many experts are sure, if the defense industry system is to a certain extent open, then every ruble invested in it can turn into 8-10 rubles.

    That's for sure, I would also remind about jobs
    1. +6
      12 May 2012 08: 10
      Foreign political weight also means a lot and directly depends on the defense industry.
      1. Redpartyzan
        +6
        12 May 2012 08: 42
        In the future, the export of our weapons will only increase. In the near future, the latest models of our typhoon, boomerang, armata equipment will be released, and in any case, an export version will be developed. In general, the direction of development of our defense industry can be described as positive. I hope that under the new president the state defense order will be subject to more stringent control.
      2. +9
        12 May 2012 08: 55
        Generally a strange statement of the question. And who else is capable of becoming the engine of the Russian economy today?
        1. vylvyn
          +3
          13 May 2012 10: 10
          Exactly. I completely agree. The title of the article, to put it mildly, is surprising. It seems that it’s not the defense industry, but our automobile industry that died together with the USSR today is the engine of the country's economy.

          The dull sale of oil and gas over the hill cannot be called an economy. The economy is, first of all, production, and not wasting natural resources, which, on the contrary, we need ourselves to ensure this production. When Comrade Stalin gave instructions to bring the cost of 1 dollar conditionally to 50 kopecks (or 58 kopecks - I don’t remember exactly), the USSR began to massively create factories, factories and combines, and not increase oil and gas production, which already automatically began to increase too to meet the needs of rapidly increasing production capacity. And in Russia today there is only a thickening of oil and gas pipelines in order to ensure the production capacities of Europe, which is like a road "to the people from the Kremlin." By the way, I was alarmed by Putin's oath at the inauguration - ".... I swear to faithfully serve the people ...." (1 - why is it only true, but how honest? And 2 - what kind of people did he mean at all? There is only one sitting in the Kremlin " people ", the oligarchs will gather for a booze - here's another nation for you, Siloviks - here's a third nation for you, Germans (whom Putin loves so much) - here's a fourth nation for you, Criminals - here's another" people "). You can get confused in this policy, as in the Russian economy, where a thief sits on a thief and is chased by a thief.
        2. +1
          13 May 2012 15: 08
          Quote: Dmitriy69
          Generally a strange statement of the question. And who else is capable of becoming the engine of the Russian economy today?


          the question is not just strange, it’s stupid .. the engine of the economy has always been, is and will be science .. but as one of the programs correctly said Nobel laureate Zhores Alferov, nobody needs scientific research in Russia, because there is no normal production ...
    2. borisst64
      +13
      12 May 2012 09: 02
      In addition to injecting money, you need to remember basic things, for high-quality weapons you need modern machines, high-quality metal, new alloys, domestic bearings are many times worse than imported ones, etc. etc.
      The defense industry cannot exist autonomously.
      Well, I’ll say about experienced welders, turners and other working professions - they are not there !!! For the last couple of decades, everyone has studied to be managers.
      1. 755962
        +3
        12 May 2012 10: 09
        It will be able to become an engine. Only the engine will require regular and high-quality maintenance. It is desirable to carry out it by highly qualified personnel. Fill high-quality "fuel", regularly change the "oil" wink You look .... and the unit will sing. And the efficiency will give out "to the mountain".
        1. nitro
          +9
          12 May 2012 10: 42
          Something I did not quite understand who was criticized in the article for the next failure of the defense order? What is Putin telling someone there? Personally, He is at the helm of the country for the past 12! years old. Who is he asking? What has he personally done in this direction? Or is he putting the wrong people on the military? So he has problems with the selection of people? ...
          1. Zareka
            +1
            12 May 2012 15: 12
            This is not entirely true. When were they freed from Kudrin?
          2. 0
            12 May 2012 18: 07
            Quote: nitro

            Something I did not quite understand who was criticized in the article for the next failure of the defense order? What is Putin telling someone there? Personally, He is at the helm of the country for the past 12! years old. Who is he asking? What has he personally done in this direction? Or is he putting the wrong people on the military? So he has problems with the selection of people? ...

            Take an interest in how much arms exports have changed from 2000 to 2011. This is despite the fact that as a result of the collapse of the USSR and subsequent seizure, 95% of defense industry enterprises and 90% of various research institutes and design bureaus were disabled
          3. zardoz
            0
            13 May 2012 01: 36
            Why do you need this?
        2. 0
          13 May 2012 13: 45
          Quote: 755962
          Only the engine will require regular and quality service.


          the car loves affection, cleanliness and lubrication! good

          the defense industry can and should make a huge contribution to the economy. If we do not develop, then we will buy stone axes over the hill for oil and gas ..
    3. itr
      +4
      12 May 2012 11: 22
      how can it become the engine of the economy if the country is not interested in the smell
      Look at the photo all green BMP-2 is most likely for Russia
      and Sandy all BMP-3 is clearly not Russian camouflage
    4. 703-s
      +4
      12 May 2012 12: 09
      with the right work and patriotism of power, the defense industry would have dragged the whole country out of the abyss.
      but neither one nor the other is now.

      kickbacks, cuts, mistral, ivek, -that they can!
    5. +1
      12 May 2012 18: 50
      Aha! Invested rubles, jobs ... Just now I read how one Tridvaras handed over all the secrets of "Bulava" to amers ... Here is the whole defense industry complex for you! Of course, he is being tried, but it is unpleasant to realize that the rocket was tested and flew under almost complete control of the Americans! ..
      1. doctor3006
        0
        12 May 2012 21: 43
        She fell all the time, this saw-ball is a rocket. And what the hell do Americans want to keep track of such a pig? What, again, "the State Department is to blame"? Turn on your brains.
      2. +2
        13 May 2012 00: 28
        Quote: nokki
        it’s unpleasant to realize that the rocket was tested and flew almost under the complete control of the Americans! ..

        And maybe it fell under their control ...
    6. 0
      14 May 2012 00: 16
      Firstly, there is an error in the title, or rather a typo. And secondly, the BMP-3 is visible in the photo, for the first moment it seems that this is a HUGE BMP-3 ... we wouldn’t have such an obstacle in service. Firstly, her enemies are afraid, and secondly, our own people will be afraid of her, which means no one is sleeping. drinks
  2. wolland
    0
    12 May 2012 08: 31
    Since Putin has taken it, this will bring it to mind, this is not the first time he has done so, and for this he is gathering people.
    1. fktrctqxbr
      0
      12 May 2012 14: 04
      And here we need good political PR managers and traders. who worked for our defense industry and country.

      If we have such personnel, the Americans will not like it very much.
  3. Pablomc
    +10
    12 May 2012 08: 34
    God forbid that the defense industry again becomes the "engine" of the economy!

    It should be a full part of it, but not as an engine.
    This "engine" as stalled at the end of the 80s because of several members of the USSR Politburo and cheap oil, so the whole country gave up "the spirit."

    The economy should be based on civilian industries!
    The defense industry is only part of the normal economic puzzle of any country.
    1. KGB161rus
      +6
      12 May 2012 09: 45
      defense industry engine of the Russian economy


      Already passed, nothing good happened, in the USSR the economy was one-sided.
      1. admiral
        +10
        12 May 2012 10: 34
        The defense industry should not be an engine, but an impetus for the re-equipment and modernization of production, which will then work on the entire range of products.
      2. +1
        13 May 2012 00: 37
        Quote: KGB161rus
        Already passed, nothing good happened, in the USSR the economy was one-sided.

        IN USSR. the economy was in duplicate, so to speak. The civilian sector and the defense industry, which had little influence on each other, and even within the defense industry complex, hardly circulated through the enterprises. This circumstance led to a certain one-sided development of the economy. Achievements in one industry could not be used in another and, therefore, did not give a possible positive economical. effect on the rest of the country's economy ..
      3. +1
        13 May 2012 14: 48
        Quote: KGB161rus
        Already passed, nothing good happened, in the USSR the economy was one-sided


        Now, unfortunately, the economy is even more one-sided. A huge part of the income is made up of raw materials sent abroad. And weapons, these are technologies, this is a significantly BIG percent of the value added. What else can we sell abroad? But Russian weapons are ALREADY known all over the world since Soviet times and many people are interested in what will simplify the struggle for sales markets.

        to create what China can create, I think it makes little sense, the Chinese will still make it cheaper. And here in what we can come off is a weapon and space.
        1. +1
          13 May 2012 15: 14
          The Russian defense industry is still the most advanced and export-oriented industry, and supplies to China and India account for a significant part of its total output. So, if China and India really “outgrow” Russian military industry, then Moscow will face serious problems in the next decade, especially if domestic purchases do not increase. Russia’s position is not envied, because it needs to look for buyers who could replace the two largest arms importers in the world. Thanks to the export of energy, Russia is not facing any currency crisis. But due to the decline in production in the military industry, unemployment will increase, and in addition, this will inhibit the development of secondary technologies. In this regard, in ten years or so, Russia will be almost completely dependent on the export of resources, and such an economic model has extremely negative social and political consequences.



          Dr. Robert Farley is an assistant professor at the University of Kentucky's Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce. His interests include national security, military doctrine, and maritime affairs.
          1. 0
            13 May 2012 15: 24
            here is an old but very interesting article on this topic:

            http://www.russianews.ru/press/29992
    2. +10
      12 May 2012 10: 46
      Quote: PabloMC
      God forbid that the defense industry again becomes the "engine" of the economy!

      It is a myth! Remember. Since the 70s, the defense industry has not consumed more than ~ 16% of GDP. For comparison, the United States lived "quietly" with 25-39%
      1. insurgent
        +10
        12 May 2012 11: 19
        only such an amendment - the USSR budget included everything from space flight to the construction of a new toilet in Zapupensk, and the US budget is only financial funding for federal programs, which is a small fraction of the total monetary turnover of the country, as the budget of several any major corporations more than the budget of the USSR.
  4. Senzey
    +4
    12 May 2012 08: 34
    It is a series of bureaucratic delays and price disagreements that scare away even those customers of Russian military equipment that have always been considered oriented to Russia (China, India, Vietnam and a number of other countries).


    Rather, a series of intermediaries profiting from the sale of weapons and overstating the final prices.
    1. -2
      12 May 2012 10: 30
      It seems that there are no intermediaries in this matter. But there are political motives (EU and NATO), in the style of the embargo of Iran, Libya; a little marriage (hello to India) and high-profile statements loud nonsense of MO (goodbye contracts with Egypt and with someone else, I don’t remember)
  5. -2
    12 May 2012 09: 05
    Well, I don’t know, selling weapons and profiting from someone else’s grief is bad. It is one thing if you supply someone for defense, and selling offensive weapons is another. In addition, by selling our latest military equipment, we are depriving our army of an advantage.
    1. +4
      12 May 2012 10: 57
      If we do not sell weapons, others will.
      In order for there to be no war - the war must be too terrible.
  6. +2
    12 May 2012 09: 39
    The answer to the question asked in the title of the article is obvious. The defense industry is the engine of the economy. Many civilian and dual-use industries are emerging from the defense industry. Just along with the defense industry, the state should participate in the creation of industrial production so that people working for the defense industry can spend money on consumer goods within their own country, and not abroad.
  7. +2
    12 May 2012 11: 06
    I do not understand those who criticize the current course on the defense industry. Of course, while the system is built, there will be overlays and there will be thieves. But this does not mean that now there is no need to build a system! The one who does nothing is not mistaken, the main thing is that progress is evident. But there is progress.
  8. insurgent
    -3
    12 May 2012 11: 23
    the defense industry has already dragged the ussr into magila, do you need a repetition?
    when the state interferes in production and supports something - everything turns out badly, for example, vases - the dough was poured there more than it weighs, the imports were pressed from the last ones.
    1. +1
      12 May 2012 12: 48
      Do not confuse the defense industry (defense industry) with defense spending in general.
    2. M. Peter
      0
      12 May 2012 13: 39
      The USSR still had a war in Afghanistan, for one day of which up to 2 million Soviet rubles were spent.
      And the defense should be the engine of the economy. People will not stop fighting for a long time.
      1. 0
        12 May 2012 18: 31
        That's just what would not have fought and it is necessary to develop the military-industrial complex, so that the potential adversary once again thought.
    3. chukapabra
      +5
      12 May 2012 15: 07
      Quote: insurgent
      the defense industry has already dragged the ussr into magila, do you need a repetition?

      It was not the defense industry that dragged it away, but the stupid leadership that the development of the defense industry was not allowed into. Therefore, it turned out, on the one hand, rockets into space, and on the other, wooden counts and a toilet system toilet. In general, the defense industry should not be state-owned., This leads to corruption, lack of interest in the leadership, something to invent (and so will be bought), cuts and theft.
    4. 0
      13 May 2012 17: 13
      Quote: insurgent
      the defense industry has already dragged the ussr into magila, do you need a repetition?


      we all talk about different things. in the USSR, the defense industry worked for DOMESTIC demand, plus distributed weapons practically free of charge to arm the allies. There was no time to profit from those who are with you in the "trench".

      Now huge new prospects have opened - the EXTERNAL market. What can be sold over the hill now, in times of crisis? IPhone Made Russia? Raw materials and Cudgel as an instrument of struggle for these raw materials. The USSR had all this, and it was a sin of Russia not to seize the moment, especially if we don’t do it, there will be others ....
  9. vladimir64ss
    +4
    12 May 2012 11: 37
    The defense industry is a high-tech industry, and is capable of qualitatively changing our economy. It is necessary to grow new workers, raise their prestige, and this will take years.
    1. Indigo
      +3
      12 May 2012 13: 03
      I agree with your opinion, but the question is tormenting how to be a first-class worker and receive a certain amount and at the same time look at the top executives of the midshipmen (if there were only a few, then hell with them, otherwise there would be more of them than workers) ... ..
      1. M. Peter
        -1
        12 May 2012 13: 42
        And what prevents the worker from traveling, well, not to Courchevel, but to Thailand or Turkey (the south of Russia is unfortunately expensive winked ), settle down Egypt, and you can drive the toods. Or have these places become financially inaccessible to our citizens? No, it seems. There’s one ticket worth 30 thousand rubles per person. It is available to many.
        1. Horde
          +8
          12 May 2012 13: 50
          And what prevents a worker from traveling, well, not to Courchevel, but to Thailand or Turkey


          average salary at the Izhevsk Mechanical Plant 16tys. rubles / month and not always paid, and it’s still good, you dude have come off reality from all.
      2. Filin
        +3
        12 May 2012 13: 50
        Indigo
        look at the top managers kursaveli (if there were only a few, then to hell with them, otherwise there are more of them than workers) ..


        To do this, a few years ago, a course was taken to unite enterprises into single holdings (USC, Russian Helicopters, etc.). Under the old scheme, in a factory alone there were up to 150 different LLCs that belonged to children, wives, mothers and so on ... plant directors and through these LLCs they pumped finance, took away assets, land, etc. Therefore, there were so many directors, managers ...
        Now we have taken the right course ... let's look at the results in 5 years ...
        1. chukapabra
          +5
          12 May 2012 15: 09
          Quote: FILIN
          Now we have taken the right course ... let's look at the results in 5 years ...

          And all these daughters, wives, mothers themselves will give their LLC?
          1. Filin
            +4
            12 May 2012 19: 11
            chukapabra
            And all these daughters, wives, mothers themselves will give their LLC?

            And why did the Izhevsk arms factory go bankrupt ?? Read how many small LLCs were there and what belonged to them. Now all the property has been transferred under Russian Technologies. Small ones went to the forest ...
            so there would be a desire ..
            1. Horde
              +2
              12 May 2012 19: 29
              And why did the Izhevsk arms factory go bankrupt ?? Read how many small LLCs were there and what belonged to them. Now all the property has been transferred under Russian Technologies. Small ones went to the forest ...
              so there would be a desire ..


              an interesting remark, but then why isn’t it preludeable to declare it humanly? That everyone could be glad that something is still wrong.
            2. chukapabra
              +1
              14 May 2012 08: 25
              Quote: FILIN
              Small ones went to the forest ...
              so there would be a desire ..

              What does it mean to go into the forest? Nobody went anywhere. The parent enterprise went bankrupt, daughters and supporters are still alive and haven’t gone anywhere, I won’t be surprised if under the bankruptcy the living and operating assets and workshops were transferred to a separate asset and sold by the same LLC for a penny, and the updated IZHMASH _ only a cantor - who will order from the same LLC different projects and developments. In fact, being only an intermediary and tearing off a percentage for itself, what will it lead to? To the complication of the output scheme, corruption schemes, bureaucracy and the next squandering of grandmothers
          2. +2
            12 May 2012 21: 01
            They will simply stop pumping money through them and they will not be needed even by themselves ...
  10. Georg Shep
    +5
    12 May 2012 12: 07
    The defense industry of our country is not only capable of being the engine of our industry, but should also be such. This is our strength, power and might.
  11. dred
    +3
    12 May 2012 12: 37
    Quote: Georg Shep
    The defense industry of our country is not only capable of being the engine of our industry, but should also be such. This is our strength, power and might.

    It could and could be that way it is necessary to change personnel. Rollbacks and cuts will continue until the personnel completely change. The basis of the economy should be the civilian sphere.
  12. Rodver
    +3
    12 May 2012 12: 56
    Defense: from defense - to the offensive!
  13. Horde
    +4
    12 May 2012 13: 28
    Since the leadership of the country with the help of our "magic" electoral system /// 64% /// remains the same, it is easy to guess that the policy towards the country will remain unchanged, and this is the underfunding of the military-industrial complex, endless "disruptions to the defense order", endless conversations about "severe punishment for" disruptions "and under these talks that the Russian military-industrial complex cannot, purchases
    -israeli drones
    -French ships and electronics
    -German armor
    -Italian cars- everything is scary expensive
    and our enterprises do not forget - five in silver and a glass of vodka - have fun man!
    1. Filin
      +5
      12 May 2012 14: 14
      Horde
      since the government of the country with the help of our "magic" electoral system /// 64% /// remains the same


      I live in Moscow. I am engaged in business in various fields.
      I have a stake in a recruitment agency. Before the election, there was an order for 600 observers for polling stations for one of the parties. After the election, a survey was conducted of those who were at the polls. There were violations, but the percentages are approximately the same as in the official data. So your sarcasm about a magic wand and 64% are inappropriate.
      And the other candidates are just populists and political clowns. I do not see a single worthy candidate, except for GDP, with a clear program.

      country policy will not change


      huge changes are already underway. Or do you live in the forest ??

      endless "disruptions to the defense order

      It was like that for a long time. In the army, there is the concept of "MARCH EXTRACTION", this is when a fighter can make long marches, over long distances with the performance of combat missions. And if you are now ripped off the couch, put on full equipment and march for 30 km, then I'm afraid that somewhere your heart may not stand it. The same is with our military-industrial complex.

      and under these conversations that the military-industrial complex of Russia cannot, purchases
      -israeli drones
      -French ships and electronics
      -German armor
      -Italian cars- everything is scary expensive


      A dozen drones were bought, analyzed, and soon their own will appear. Follow I hope for this topic, at least in the media.
      I see nothing wrong with the procurement of the Mistral. Two of them will be built with us.
      with electronics, even the USSR had problems. Stupidly now spend 10 years on the development of what has already been invented. Easier to buy. test, study, take the best and start producing
      About IVECO .... As soon as there was talk of his purchases and production in Russia, the manufacturers of our equipment began to move and produce more or less competitive equipment. Principle TAKE WHAT IS, no longer rolls. Buy 1500 of these IVEC and what ?? They will ride them. they will develop a resource and write off within 10 years. I don’t see anything terrible. We will have localization of production.
      No need to discount the political components of these purchases. Bought Mistral - Sarkozy helped shut up Europe in South Ossetia.
      Iveco bought - Italians began negotiations on the sale of part of the gas distribution network in Europe.
      This is a chess game ..... so far in our favor.
      1. chukapabra
        +4
        12 May 2012 15: 30
        Quote: FILIN
        A dozen drones were bought, analyzed, and soon their own will appear. Follow I hope for this topic, at least in the media.

        I will say one interesting and maybe for someone not quite a pleasant thing
        Everything that has been sold to Russia has long been not on the rest of science and development. In this sense, Israel will not and will not create its own competitors and share a market in which it plays a rather large role. All that is sold is development of 7-10 years ago and usually truncated options (Israel is not original in this, export options are always more weaker than those in service) While you delve into, develop technologies, find contractors. release, conduct tests - it will take about 5 years, by this time they will be suitable for their army, but they will no longer be competitive on the market.
        Quote: FILIN
        . Stupidly now spend 10 years on the development of what has already been invented. Easier to buy. test, study, take the best and start producing

        Nobody will sell the best, the same technology. Therefore, to be the first you need to stupidly develop yourself.
      2. Horde
        +2
        12 May 2012 15: 54
        So your sarcasm about the magic wand and 64% are inappropriate


        I, too, was an election observer and saw how they brought buses
        guest workers on absentee ballots. These guys were very taciturn, they did not want to answer any questions, just as bewitched, and you say there was no "magic". It was. Considering that there are millions of newcomers in Moscow, their contribution to this "honest" the victory will be very significant. In 64%, normal people do not believe.

        I don’t see a single worthy candidate, except for GDP,


        The elections were not conducted according to the same rules for everyone, as you know about Mironov B., a united candidate from the left forces, he simply did not have enough time to collect 2 million votes according to the law and even to such a bad candidate, as Yavlinsky found fault with form and removed from the candidates. You are all "loyal Putinists" as one declare that there are no "worthy" candidates, but it is not true that the candidates were removed from the "presidential race" under various far-fetched pretexts. And in general, do not make Putin a cult, others, as if not, that they have forgotten what "democracy" is - I will remind you that there are fair elections and real freedom of speech, and not pro-Kremlin.

        huge changes are already underway. Or do you live in the forest ??


        they’re coming, but how are prices increasing by leaps and bounds, manufactured goods are all Chinese, food is all chemical, and more expensive, you’ll go into the store from the goods shelves, beer, vodka, wine, cigarettes are breaking, the army was rebuilt in the American manner is the country victorious ?, the education was remade in the American way, we’ll do our American d * bills, and even for a fee, the Olympic games were blown away, at least someone answered?, the media is a garbage dump (violence, sexual promiscuity, any on the Internet page look naked assholes, vile snouts, other dirt). The authorities have learned to disperse peaceful rallies, but the authorities do not want to disperse the immorality and immorality of the media.
        1. Filin
          +3
          12 May 2012 19: 35
          Horde


          It's hard to talk with you, I am one of you, you are different to me.
          I tell you about 600 sites, you tell me about what you yourself saw. I wrote - YES there were violations, but not on such a scale. Read the forecasts of independent sources, at least foreign ones, about how much Putin will gain. Read the data of exit polls, etc. ... Then we will discuss.

          I am not a faithful PUTIN. But the rest of the candidates are just clowns.
          It was enough for me to read the composition of the government from Mironov.
          Prokhorov is just a party-goer, and just the same he is personally responsible for biathlon for his failures.
          Zhirinovsky - this is not even discussed ...
          Yavlinsky has long been a political corpse and can’t even imagine what he could promote in the international arena. What ideas ?? Where does he want to go ??

          And one moment. Being the head of my business - I'm just a little bit !!! I understand WHAT IS to lead. These are so many problems that you turn gray before time. I am silent about the leadership of such a level as the president.
          I judge only from this position and I understand that there are certain groups promoting their interests. Putin is not Stalin and does not have such full power.
      3. Horde
        +3
        12 May 2012 16: 23
        with electronics, even the USSR had problems. Stupidly now spend 10 years on the development of what has already been invented. Easier to buy. test, study, take the best and start producing


        we had good electronics worse than in the states, but the main growth potential was huge because Soviet science was advanced and even now it’s not dying, although for this we put maximum effort
        1. Filin
          +3
          12 May 2012 19: 25
          Horde
          we had good electronics worse than in the states, but the main growth potential was huge because Soviet science was advanced and even now it’s not dying, although for this we put maximum effort


          And where do you see me writing that the electronics was BAD ??
          There were problems I wrote ... this is so. Our micro calculators were the largest in the world. But this is mainly a consequence of the planned closed economy. Decisions were made for a very long time. The potential was and is. It is always easier to start from a low position, as you can go your own way and overtake leaders.
          1. Arc76
            -1
            13 May 2012 10: 04
            No, our electronics lagged behind the American for a whole generation, and this lag was laid by Comrade Stalin, who declared cybeonetics a pseudoscience. For comparison, the homing head for the "harpoon" missile defense system was half that of ours.
            1. chukapabra
              +1
              13 May 2012 17: 41
              Quote: arc76
              For comparison, the seeker for the "harpoon" missile defense system was half the size of ours.

              and not only that, compare the weight of the Trident and the Mace
              Comparative characteristics of modifications
              Characteristics UGM-96A "Trident-I" C4 UGM-133A "Trident-II" D5
              Launch weight, kg 32 000 59 000
              Maximum cast weight, kg 1 280
              Warheads
              8 W76 (100kT)
              8 W88 (475kT) or
              14 W76 (100kT)
              Type of guidance system inertial inertial +astrocorrection+GPS
              KVO, m 360 - 500 [source not specified 796 days]
              90 with GPS
              120 with astro correction
              350 - 500 inertial [source not specified 796 days]
              Range
              maximum
              with maximum load
              7 400
              11 000
              7 (600 W8)
              Length, m 10,36 13,42
              Diameter, m 1,88 2,11
              Quantity X Type of stages 3 solid propellant motors 3 solid propellant motors

              and maces
              Number of steps 3
              Length (with MS) 12,1 m[1]
              Length (without warhead) 11,5 m[1]
              Diameter 2 m [1]
              Launch weight 36,8 tons [1]
              Cast weight 1150 kg.[1]
              Type of fuel solid mixed
              Maximum range 8000[2]-9300[3] km
              Warhead type MIRV, nuclear
              Number of warheads 10[4]
              Autonomous, inertial control system based on BTsVK
              Basing method 941UM "Shark" - tests 955 "Borey" - regular carrier

              According to its characteristics, the new (not really tested) mace barely catches up with the UGM-96A "Trident-I" C4
              1974, and the UGM-133A "Trident-II" D5 will never be reached.
              At the time when they already had the UGM-96A "Trident-I" C4 (32 tons, 8 heads), we were armed with the D-19 of the Typhoon system, (90 tons, 10 blocks) Think 90 tons against 32 " Trident-I ", with practically the same characteristics.
              http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0-39
      4. IGR
        IGR
        0
        12 May 2012 22: 24
        +... Follow the example of the Chinese. Copying the best is cheaper (Moskvich-Opel, VAZ-Fiat, GAZ-Ford) And the Great Russian shame ... this is the lot of "epistolary patriots".
        1. Horde
          +3
          13 May 2012 00: 33
          Copy the best - cheaper (Moskvich-Opel, VAZ-Fiat, GAZ-Ford)


          purely Russian ideals always have unrivaled characteristics
          -Our spaceships are better
          - our submarines are more slow, have a greater depth of immersion, and high speed
          -underwater missile "Shkval" has no analogues in the west
          we have the best titanium processing technology
          -screens with weapons were only in our country
          -Mosquito supersonic missile has no analogues
          uranium enrichment technologies are more advanced
          -and finally the best machine gun of all countries, times and peoples, the unsurpassed "Kalashnikov"
          and much more...
          the Chinese are monkeys - they can only tear the finished ((they even have a philosophy for that) we won’t sell them a fifth-generation plane and the Chinese will not have a fifth-generation plane
          1. Arc76
            -1
            13 May 2012 10: 10
            Quote: Horde
            our submarines are slower, have a greater diving depth, and high speed

            Nonsense, submarines of the USSR in the 80s only approached the United States in terms of their acoustic performance. But they didn’t surpass them. In addition, we have dubious achievements in creating the largest nuclear submarines in the world (which, in contrast to America, is much smaller) robs the boat of the most important quality - secrecy.
            1. Horde
              0
              13 May 2012 11: 32
              project 877 "Varshavyanka" diesel submarine for many years was the slowest boat 671 various modifications the slowest to date
              1. Arc76
                0
                13 May 2012 12: 16
                In 671, the sonar component was reduced in comparison with our other projects, but we were far from the USA in this matter. This project was the slowest on our fleet. My father served on the hydroacoustic training ground of the Northern Fleet, in the Umba village near Kandalaksha, as the head of the laboratory and talks about constant painful attempts to reduce his / her visibility. However, you have every right to disbelieve me, then take a look at the submarine, there is a lot written on this issue. As for diesels, we had successes there, but due to the low autonomy and speed, I do not take them into account.
                1. Horde
                  +1
                  13 May 2012 15: 01
                  In 671, the sonar component was reduced in comparison with our other projects, but we were far from the USA in this matter.


                  671 boats solved any problem. For example, Operations "Aport" and "Atrina", due to the low noise of the boat, they passed any American barriers.

                  but to the United States in this matter we were far


                  Do you know American boats well?
          2. go
            +3
            13 May 2012 15: 23
            Ah, Soviet romance ... From the series that birches grow only in Russia and how good it was in the USSR ... the armor is strong and our tanks are fast ...

            The USSR was lagging behind, so there were plans to catch up and overtake America. In microelectronics always lagged behind! When in the USSR all electronics worked on lamps, everywhere there were already semiconductors. Now electronics are not soldered transistors, but architecture at the nanoscale. Only now they are produced in the USA and Japan, even the Germans are already lagging behind and are programming ready-made microprocessors. We missed this moment just in the 80-90s.

            This is a science and not only microelectronics, but also material science, studies of solid-state physics into which no one wants to invest in the Russian Federation, because gas and oil can be pumped without it. What is more or less left is theoretical developments in cybernetics and system programming, but on a foreign element base. But this is not enough, the Chinese are already pulling up with it.

            Solasen is that we must develop ourselves what is possible. Without the development of applied science, there will be no country.
          3. chukapabra
            +1
            13 May 2012 20: 35
            Quote: Horde
            -Our spaceships are better

            not a fact
            Quote: Horde
            our submarines are slower, have a greater diving depth, and high speed

            Noisier, carry fewer missiles while being much larger.
            Quote: Horde
            we have the best titanium processing technology

            Fact you can't argue
            Quote: Horde
            ekranoplanes with weapons were only in our country

            In general, an unnecessary and dead-end project, it was rather actively discussed at the forum
            Quote: Horde
            uranium enrichment technologies are more advanced

            I agree, that’s why the United States bought all of our uranium (from disassembled warheads) on a cheap basis, so as not to produce our own, along with several million tons of tailings (mining waste)

            Quote: Horde
            and finally the best machine gun of all countries, times and peoples - the unsurpassed Kalashnikov

            Overly optimistic. was the best, but for a long time. The same was discussed on the site. Take an interest.
            Quote: Horde
            Shkval submarine missile has no analogues in the West

            And it’s not necessary, as military weapons have extremely low efficiency due to the inability to control movement. (Changing the direction of movement)
            Quote: Horde
            the Chinese are monkeys - they can only tear the finished

            I agree, but it’s even more stupid to sell them and produce competitors. [
          4. chukapabra
            +1
            16 May 2012 17: 16
            Quote: Horde
            purely Russian ideals always have unrivaled characteristics


            Russia intends to purchase from Israel's new large batch of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) and 24 complex control for the armed forces. This was reported by a senior source in the Russian military-industrial complex.

            Earlier, the Israeli company Israel Aerospace Industries delivered to Russia two UAVs Bird Eye-400, eight I-View Mk150 and two Searcher Mk.2 for a total amount of $ 53 million.

            "The Ministry of Defense is considering buying from the Israeli company Aeronautics Defense Systems for testing eight control systems for unmanned aerial vehicles of three types: Orbiter 2, Aerostar and Skystar. The total number of complexes that can be purchased is 24," the source said.

            According to him, given the fact that one such complex serves two or three drones, The number of purchased Israeli UAVs can vary from 48 to 72 aircraft. At the same time, the deal may amount to approximately 53 million dollars, the source said.

            "EIf these purchases take place and Israeli UAVs enter service with our army, this will significantly increase its combat capability and create prerequisites for intensifying the efforts of our defense industry in the serial production of domestic UAVs. ", - the agency RIA "Novosti" quotes its source.

            In July 2011, it became known that Russia, which does not have its own shock drones, plans to begin their development. Shortly before that, Russia bought a small batch of drones in Israel.
    2. chukapabra
      +6
      12 May 2012 15: 19
      Quote: Horde
      underfunding of the military-industrial complex, endless "disruptions to the defense order"

      Yes, it’s the sea, and disruptions due to the fact that
      1. It is necessary to roll back to whom it is necessary
      2 Production base ruined
      3. Skilled workers or not or they are already over 50
      4 The design base, scientific developments, everything has long been either privately owned or hopelessly behind (therefore, there are more foreign than Russian foreigners on the Superjet, electronics in general are in full swing, I'm not talking about GLONASS, even the connection is mostly analogue (Medvedev promised to transfer all digital communication, I didn’t hear victorious performance reports)
      Ships, planes, missiles - everything that today requires heavy experimental - design developments is not uplifting for the defense industry, simply because it’s not anyone, the Old shots are tired, but where are the new ones? Being a manager, lawyer or official is much more profitable, you don’t have to study hard, and there is less responsibility. Therefore, in the best case, this is modernization, creating fundamentally new systems in these conditions is simply not realistic.
      1. 11Goor11
        +3
        14 May 2012 12: 13
        In microelectronics always lagged behind! When in the USSR all electronics worked on lamps, everywhere there were already semiconductors.

        Who told you such nonsense?
        Are you judging by household appliances? winked TVs remembered? winked
        Military computers had chips, exactly since the chips appeared in the West.
        Functionality has always been higher. Amarians able to create a shuttle automatically landing?
        Did you not like the "Bulava"? Who can tell you about her ability to maneuver and accelerate to break through the defenses? This is not a stupid trident striving directly towards the goal.
  14. +2
    12 May 2012 15: 22
    not quite a topic, but there is a connection with the economy. and in general this is, in my opinion, an important point

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UNllMr4F5GE#!
    1. Vadim555
      +2
      12 May 2012 16: 22
      [quote = Gleb] Gleb Today, 15:22 new 1 not quite a topic, but there is a connection with the economy. And in general, in my opinion, this is an important point

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UNllMr4F5GE#! [/quote]

      All in topic !! The news is great.

      Scatter on the "branches" so that more people would know about it.
      1. Horde
        +2
        12 May 2012 16: 31
        a ban on drinking beer selling at small points is right. We'll take a look at the execution, as usual, lowering the brakes. Checking Putin.
      2. +2
        12 May 2012 16: 52
        Yes, I generally would not mind that the administration raised this topic. This is one of our main troubles.
        and there it would be possible to talk how effectively this would be realized
  15. +4
    12 May 2012 15: 29
    During the Soviet era, more than 70% of civilian products were produced to some extent at the enterprises of the military-industrial complex. The collapse of the military-industrial complex with the slogan PEACE WORLD in the early 90s led to the destruction of the production of consumer goods. And then followed privatization with the destruction of export orientations of the economy ... machine building, our machines of a certain class did not hesitate to buy and developed countries, shipbuilding, heavy engineering, on cranes in the USSR were the only factories in the class of bridge cranes the same in metal, chemical industry and other other things. If you remember how smartly they traded on the collapse of the USSR technologies, and it was for a penny we bought them. Now all this comes to us from there, from the west ... our ideas. The same Boeing is not shy about purchasing components for our aircraft from us. Only with the collapse of the USSR did the concept collapse development of the country ... our political elite country on the drum, they can’t play enough of the creators of life ... they are dearer to the glorious west, which they do not need. They are the crisis in Europe has already been brewed by your loot ... well, Europe doesn’t need so much tyrennaya dough ... you don’t need it, it corrupts them. The largest Western companies do not go out monthly to meet with the country's leadership and discuss who can help the state with what. Unlike ours , they cease to understand, just that if the country weakens their business, tryndets will come. A good example is what the 20-30 years of the last century did with immigrants from Russia in the developed West ... they’ve correctly let the world go at best, at worst in a concentration camp before Adolf came ... all this was. only this Pinocchio doesn’t teach anything. In all countries of the military-industrial complex, the pivot of the country and the economy ... China emerged from the last crisis ... right ... gave the money to the military-industrial complex. This money is spinning create jobs in the country. We are the only country in the world where it IS NOT FAVORABLE TO PRODUCE WEAPONS.
  16. CHIM SMOKE
    +1
    12 May 2012 15: 49
    Failure of the defense order - THIS IS NOT JUST A CRIME, IT IS THE SAME CHANGE TO THE MOTHERLAND !!!
    1. Horde
      0
      12 May 2012 16: 09
      Quote: HIM-SMOKE
      CHEM-SMOKE Today, 15:49 new 0 
      Failure of the defense order - THIS IS NOT JUST A CRIME, IT IS THE SAME CHANGE TO THE MOTHERLAND !!!


      swooned the pig in the mud do not go
  17. SectoR
    +1
    12 May 2012 16: 39
    Can the defense become the engine of the Russian economy?
    Perhaps BUT is it not in this that we were indignant at the States that they are making money out of this?))
  18. Ataturk
    +3
    12 May 2012 17: 43
    I am for peace. War is bad. But alas, in this world, if you want peace, you have to prepare for war. This means that the defense industry must be on top.

    DO NOT WILL FEED YOUR ARMY, FORCED TO FEED ANOTHER.
  19. malera
    +3
    12 May 2012 17: 49
    Quote: Wolland
    Since Putin has taken it, this will bring it to mind, this is not the first time he has done so, and for this he is gathering people.

    That’s for sure, since Putin took it: in six months or a year, he can blame all the incompetence and failures on someone a stalker. And then closer to the elections he will tear his shirt on himself. They say we will not allow the damned adversaries to ruin our defense industry. The US State Department will be to blame. And from it will be like water from a goose.
    1. Horde
      +1
      12 May 2012 19: 45
      took up tug, so don’t say that not a dozen. smile

      Tug, tug, - 'and, (plural tug, tug) - a part of a horse harness, leather or rope loops at the yoke, used to fasten the shafts with an arc. To properly harness a horse, the tugs need to be pulled tight, which requires a lot of strength. Dyuz - cr. form m. r. from hefty (simple) 'very strong, healthy'. If you took up any business, bring it to the end, complete it, even if it is difficult to do. It is said when a person, having voluntarily taken up some business, begins to experience difficulties, but cannot refuse from the undertaken obligations; it is also said as a reproach to a person when he wants to quit the business he has begun because of difficulties.
  20. lorvig
    -1
    12 May 2012 22: 34
    In my opinion, the defense industry is the only industry that can be the locomotive of the entire industry of Russia. But it is necessary to push it with modern methods. First of all, the military department should work for the economy, intelligence should get technology, weave bast shoes for everyone, pitting everyone into armed conflicts, sell their weapons to everyone, mourn everyone, play off, create a need for their products. NO FRIENDS! There are interests. We must finally learn how to benefit from foreign wars for the country. Do not be shy. War is the engine of progress. To support and incite all wars, sell weapons to everyone, RICH, .... sounds immoral? ... Oh! NO! Russia is a democratic country and it is obliged to support the war for freedom and democracy, Russia, as a multiconfessional country, must support the war for Allah ... for anything, only buy Russian weapons. Slogan: Russia’s allies must change its army and navy. {, Allies of Russia all who pay Russia ... but for now ... some sold secrets of the mace ... it hurts ...
    1. +3
      12 May 2012 23: 47
      Lorwig!
      I do not agree. Every cynicism has a limit. Do not be compared to these Western moral perverts. Your slogans are in the past the policy of England, the once greatest empire, and now just a miserable island that does not have its own policy. The Lord punishes the nations for such vileness, whether anyone believes in Him or not.
  21. +6
    12 May 2012 23: 43
    The defense industry is the engine. Remember what a technological breakthrough the whole world made after the Second World War. I repeat - learn history, there all the answers lie directly on the surface!
  22. +3
    13 May 2012 18: 59
    The initial question of the article can be considered in the plane of the control system.
    We have (or had) three options
    1. Technocratic scheme
    Yes - Tupolev, Korolev .. - bad, but Stalin recognized them as technical experts of the highest class and gave them and the like the corresponding capabilities and resources
    2. Pseudo-technocratic scheme
    I hit our aerospace in the 80s. There was such a wild excess of people, resources, specialists .. I well remember the stupid and illiterate Chief Designers and their deputies .. The results then reached an excess of resources and the enthusiasm of some specialists .. (in fairness, I must say that some of my classmates ended up in more decent places in our aerospace and there was really big return ..)
    3. Now everyone is "got" by "effective managers".
    So I work at a research institute. At the head now is only youth. Forced generational change has led to -
    Now, for example, you can take a textbook on the Theoretical Foundations of Electronics and make everyone solve simple problems from it - and the four floors of our main building can be safely kicked out for complete unprofessionalism and inadequacy ..
  23. Dmitry.V
    +2
    13 May 2012 21: 25
    "War is the engine of progress." So it is not capable, but must.
  24. +2
    14 May 2012 04: 53
    Quote: JustMe
    Now, for example, you can take a textbook on the Theoretical Foundations of Electronics and make everyone solve simple problems from it - and the four floors of our main building can be safely kicked out for complete unprofessionalism and inadequacy

    Let's hope that they will begin to act soon.
  25. tverskoi77
    0
    15 May 2012 16: 44
    An important role in the movement of the economy is played by the bright minds of people. Their education, advanced ideas, goals, persistence in their achievement. Other heads are constantly looking for those guilty of failures, skillfully criticizing those who do something and who don’t succeed, looking to the side where they’re not trying to make a difference for the better, where they are — they absolutely do not contribute to this. At best, they are useless ballast.
    As they say, cadres decide everything. The USSR is a unique example of this. The country was in wild isolation and at the same time autonomously achieved tremendous successes in many fields of science and production.
    The Russian defense industry in modern circumstances is not only a cost, but also an excellent business.
  26. 0
    7 March 2015 17: 21
    The economy can only develop if the allocated funds are not stolen, and such a danger is very great

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