IRA "Karakurt". Quantity will go to quality

Current Naval Shipbuilding Program fleet Russia has not yet envisaged the creation and transfer of large warships capable of carrying an outstanding amount of weapons and operating in the ocean zone. So far, the priority is the construction of other combat units, such as small missile ships. However, despite its modest size and displacement, the new domestic ships are quite capable of solving very complex problems. One of the foundations of such a naval group in the future will be new small missile ships of project 22800 Karakurt.


According to official data, ships of the "Karakurt" type belong to the third rank and are intended for conducting combat operations in the near sea zone. With the help of existing missile and artillery weapons, such IRAs should attack surface, air or coastal targets. Previously, it was repeatedly noted that the 22800 project has a significant similarity with the older 21631 “Buyan-M” project, however, it is notable for improved seaworthy characteristics. Unlike the “Buyans”, the new “Karakurts” will be able to work not only on the rivers and shallow seas.



The 22800 project was created by the Almaz Central Maritime Design Bureau (St. Petersburg) by order of the Russian Ministry of Defense. Design work was carried out in the first half of this decade. The first official demonstration of the future Karakurts was held at the Army-2015 international military-technical forum. It is curious that only a few months passed from the first demonstration of the project materials to the start of ship construction.

Bookmark the first two "Karakurtov" took place at the end of December 2015. The order for their construction was received by the Pella shipyard in Leningrad. In total, 7 ships of a new type are planned to be built at this enterprise, with 3 units descending from the stocks of the “More” plant in Feodosia, transferred under the control of the “Pella”. Another five ships must pass Zelenodolsk Shipyard them. Gorky; He began work on his orders in 2016. The possibility of ordering six ships to the Amur shipyard was also mentioned.

In the summer and autumn of last year, the Pella plant launched the first two ships of the 22800 project, the Hurricane and Typhoon. In early May, the third descent took place. According to known data, the first two ships have already passed the necessary tests. The transfer of two units to the Navy is scheduled for this year. The next two "Karakurt" will begin service next year. In 2020, the flag will be raised on several ships at once. The last of the planned ISCs will be laid out in the 2019-2020 years, and their construction will be completed within the next years 3-4.

The ships of the Karakurt project are not distinguished by large dimensions and displacement. Their length is only 67 m with a width of 11 m and a draft of 4 m. Displacement - 800 t. With the help of a diesel-electric power plant, they can reach speeds up to 30 nodes and show the cruising range at 2500 miles.

Despite their small size, the 22800 IRAs should carry a serious set of equipment and weapons. Thus, the main means of monitoring the situation and detecting targets is the Mineral-M radar complex, which includes active and passive surveillance tools. With the help of such a complex, Karakurt will be able to find large surface targets at distances of about 250 km. The maximum range of the passive location, depending on various factors, is up to 400-450 km. Stations can accompany dozens of targets and exchange data with other ships.

The project provides for the availability of weapons for air defense. The first two ships of the series for such purposes carry a pair of AK-630M installations and man-portable air defense systems. All subsequent ships are invited to complete the modules "Pantsir-M" with 30-mm guns and missiles. Constructing "Karakurt" receive a universal artillery installation AK-176MA with a caliber 76 mm.

The main strike vehicle of the 22800 project ships are several types of missiles. In the aft part of the superstructure, across the diametral plane, there is a universal vertical launcher 3-14 with eight cells for transport and launch containers with missiles. Declared the possibility of using cruise missiles complex "Caliber-NK" and anti-ship "Onyx". The composition of the ammunition and the type of missiles used are determined in accordance with the assigned combat missions.

It is rocket armament that gives new domestic ships high combat characteristics and remarkable potential. With its help, the IRC of the 22800 project will be able to fight off surface, land or underwater targets, for which different types of missiles with different characteristics and combat equipment can be used. In this case, as follows from the well-known data, it is possible to hit targets at distances of hundreds of kilometers.

When an enemy surface ship is detected, the Karakurt can use the Onyx rocket or products of the 3М-54 family. Onyx anti-ship missiles are equipped with a combined guidance system based on inertial navigation and active-passive radar homing head. It enters a given area according to navigation data, after which it must independently search for a target. You can choose the flight path. With a high altitude trajectory, the maximum launch range reaches 450-500 km. On other modes, the radius of action is noticeably reduced. A warhead with a mass of 300 kg is delivered to the target, sufficient to inflict the most serious damage even to large ships.

In the family of missiles "Caliber" is also present anti-ship weapon. A cruise missile of this line is able to fly more than 300 km, independently find a surface target and hit it with a warhead of at least 200 kg. According to various sources, anti-ship "Calibers" can have a range up to 450-500 km. The main difference between the “Caliber” and “Onyx” is other flight speeds. These RCCs maintain subsonic speeds on most of the trajectories, while Onyx immediately goes to supersonic.

The most important advantage of the Caliber-NK complex is the presence of 3-14 cruise missiles, designed to attack ground targets with previously known coordinates. This weapon has already been used in real operations and clearly demonstrated the possibility of destroying objects at distances more than 1500 km. Moreover, some sources mention the firing range of the order of 2-2,5 thousand km. Thus, if the target designation is available, the Karakurt-type ship or other Kalibrov carrier is able to control a very large land area.

According to the previously announced data, the serial XR of the 22800 project will be transmitted to all major fleet associations. They will serve in the Northern, Pacific, Baltic, and Black Sea fleets. It is not at all difficult to imagine what effect the new ships with missiles of outstanding range can have on the military-political situation in the regions. They will be able to cover significant areas of the coast from a possible attack, and in addition, they will "take aim" at large land areas with a multitude of military and administrative facilities.

Without leaving their bases on the Kola Peninsula, the small rocket ships of the Northern Fleet, in theory, are able to protect from the surface facilities all the nearest coast, as well as a significant part of the Barents Sea and the entire White Sea. In the area of ​​responsibility of 3М-14 missiles in this case are Scandinavia, Eastern and Central Europe, as well as part of the British Isles.



With the help of “Calibrov” and “Onyxes” Baltic seamen will be able to protect the Gulf of Finland and cover a significant part of the Baltic Sea. It is also possible to control territories up to Western Europe, the Balkans and Asia Minor. The responsibility of the Baltic Fleet overlaps with the area of ​​possible operation of the Northern Fleet.

While in Sevastopol, the "Karakurt" of the Black Sea Fleet can use anti-ship missiles on targets in all the nearby waters. At the same time, their “Calibers” are capable of acquiring objects in Western Europe, North Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia. It should be noted that the Caspian flotilla missiles, where the Buyan-M type ships serve, overlap a similar region.

ISCs of the Pacific Fleet, based in Vladivostok, can use anti-ship weapons against targets in the Sea of ​​Japan and the East Korean Gulf. The range of water-to-ground rockets at the same time allows you to control the area from central Mongolia to Kamchatka, including all the Japanese islands and a large part of China.

It should be noted that the areas of responsibility obtained relate only to ships located on or near the main fleet bases. The new ships of the 22800 project are capable of operating in the near-sea zone, and therefore the actual launch point of the missiles can be located anywhere and at a considerable distance from the base. Thus, the actual areas of responsibility of new ships are able to be anywhere and cover almost any part of the oceans or land, even with certain restrictions.

It must be admitted that the new Russian "Karakurts" are not perfect. First of all, the small size of the ammunition of the missile complex can be considered a disadvantage. One IRA of this type carries a total of eight Caliber or Onyx missiles. Thus, to perform a massive missile strike, joint work of several ships may be necessary, which may make it difficult to prepare for the operation and conduct it. However, small ammunition directly related to the dimensions of the ships and the lesser complexity of their construction.

According to current plans, no later than the mid-twenties, the Russian Navy will have 18 ships of the 22800 "Karakurt" project, which will be distributed among the four main structures. Thus, the fleet will receive a fairly large group of strike ships with very powerful weapons. At the same time, the country receives a convenient and flexible force projection tool in different regions. It is important that such a tool can be created in minimum time and with reasonable spending - the entire program of building 18 ships should take no more than 8-9 years.

Currently, a gradual modernization of the fleet and military shipbuilding. The production capacities of various enterprises are being updated, which makes it possible to build new ships of various classes and types. So far, the military department only makes plans for future projects of surface ships of the first rank, but smaller and powerful combat units are already being built, transferred to the customer and included in the Navy. All this naturally leads to an increase in the combat potential of surface forces and the general defense capability of the country.

Obviously, new ships of the second and third rank, such as the 22800 project's MRC, are inferior in their capabilities to larger combat units, for example, the promising destroyer Leader. However, they differ in comparative cheapness, simplicity and speed of construction. The first "Karakurt" was laid at the end of 2015 of the year, and will soon enter service. By the time the head "Leader" can start his service, almost all the ordered ships of the 22800 project will be present in the Navy.

With all the achievements and successes, the Russian Ministry of Defense, the navy and the shipbuilding industry still face all sorts of difficulties. In current conditions it is not always possible to do everything desired, and therefore you have to look for alternative ways. One of the ways out of the current situation, which makes it possible to update the fleet and increase its potential under the conditions of known restrictions, is the construction of a large number of small rocket ships with advanced weapons. These ideas, first of all, are realized with the help of the 21631 “Buyan-M” and 22800 “Karakurt” projects.

To date, the Russian shipbuilding industry has managed to launch three Karakurt type ships from 18 planned for construction. The first two this year will pass all the tests and go to serve the Baltic Sea. Another 15 ships will be transferred to the customer starting next year. By the mid-twenties, the four fleets of the Russian Navy will be able to form full-fledged groups of small rocket ships with modern weapons.

The construction of large and powerful ships with rocket and artillery weapons still belongs to the distant future, but the navy cannot wait. For this reason, other combat units are being built, which also have quite remarkable opportunities. Despite their modest size and small displacement, they can be a serious shock tool and an effective tool of international politics. And a large number of such ships will surely turn into quality.

On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://nvo.ng.ru/
http://pellaship.ru/
http://npomash.ru/
Author:
Photos used:
Plant "Pella" / pellaship.ru
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  1. Petrol cutter 8 June 2018 06: 06 New
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    Much is repeated in the article "in a circle" seemed to me. Well, God be with him, you have to go up to the factory to blow - exactly 22800 to do.
    1. Grandfather 8 June 2018 06: 14 New
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      Quote: Benzorez
      Much is repeated in the article "in a circle" seemed to me. Well, God be with him, you have to go up to the factory to blow - exactly 22800 to do.

      Come on, do not be late, otherwise the terms will move again! yes but in fact, apparently the emphasis is still on the "mosquito" fleet, but in this case, you need to increase the number of ships at times in order to somehow compensate for the lack of powerful strike ships of the first rank ... it seems to me. "mosquitoes" swarm, can bite any moose.
    2. Su24 8 June 2018 20: 44 New
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      RCC type "Onyx" is equipped with a combined guidance system based on inertial navigation and active-passive radar homing. It enters a given area according to navigation data, after which it must independently search for a target. It is possible to select a flight path. With a high-altitude trajectory, the maximum launch range reaches 450-500 km.


      Yeah, 500 km. Those. range less than the previous generation RCC?) 800-1000 km Onyx range.
      1. Vlad.by 23 June 2018 23: 37 New
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        Do not burn raspberries. The CIA is waiting for you.
    3. Sailor 15 June 2018 13: 25 New
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      It’s time, you’re our benefactor, and carefully read the article again, otherwise you will confuse the Pacific Fleet with the Black Sea Fleet.
  2. jonht 8 June 2018 08: 45 New
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    As in the USSR, before saturating the fleet with ships of the first rank, torpedo boats, patrol vessels and submarines were placed under arms. And already in the process of saturating the fleet, the kids began to introduce ships of the second and first rank.
    I think this is the right approach to solving the problems of the fleet.
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 June 2018 09: 48 New
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      Quote: jonht
      As in the USSR, before saturating the fleet with ships of the first rank, torpedo boats, patrol vessels and submarines were placed under arms.

      And then the Second World War came and it turned out that the TCA and many small submarines are worthless
      1. Alexey RA 8 June 2018 13: 21 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And then the Second World War came and it turned out that the TCA and many small submarines are worthless

        To be precise, the Second World War did not include the situations under which the "mosquito fleet" was created. The same small TCAs and submarines were created as a means of defense of bases and coastal waters - single-shot high-speed or secretive torpedo tubes. But for some reason no one wanted to use the "big pots" to storm our bases from the sea or a breakthrough to our coastal communications.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 June 2018 13: 27 New
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          Quote: Alexey RA
          To be precise, the Second World War did not include the situations under which the "mosquito fleet" was created.

          I’m afraid that in the event of a war with NATO, they will write the same about Karakurt ....
          1. Alexey RA 8 June 2018 14: 28 New
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            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            I'm afraid that in case of war with NATO about "Karakurt" then they will write same....

            In the Rat Herald? Or in Ant Review? Or in the "Cockroach News and world report"? wink
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 June 2018 14: 42 New
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              Quote: Alexey RA
              In the Rat Herald? Or in Ant Review?

              Not necessarily, they can simply hollow out on the rocks where a thread in Australia :)))))
          2. jonht 9 June 2018 00: 00 New
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            And it seems to me that this "Karakurt" will be "written" with fragments of the "Caliber" on the walls of the NATO capitals. wassat
            But seriously, for striking back with the same tactical nuclear weapons, they are more than suitable ... hi
            It is easy to mask, they can move through shallow water, they may not leave the cover zone of their aircraft and air defense. Here with a demonstration of the flag ... here yes, they are not impressive. repeat
            1. rice 14 August 2018 13: 42 New
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              Quote: jonht
              Here with a demonstration of the flag ... here yes, they are not impressive.

              laughing Only one thing can be said: "Do you have checkers or go?"
      2. ser56 8 June 2018 14: 33 New
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        namely, it would be better to create universal corvettes in 1500t, as they are building for Vietnam ...
      3. ser56 8 June 2018 14: 39 New
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        exactly! terrible money went nowhere ... and landed troops from unadapted TC
      4. venik 8 June 2018 20: 32 New
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        Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
        And then the Second World War came and it turned out that the TCA and many small submarines are worthless

        ============
        Oh oh ??? So it’sno good"????? They are still their tasks fulfilled!!!
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 9 June 2018 13: 32 New
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          Quote: venik
          They nevertheless completed their tasks !!!

          No, not done, unfortunately
        2. bugagich 10 June 2018 11: 18 New
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          Dear Andrey, they are not satisfied.
          and this is not just my opinion. without taking literature into account. once talked with one grandfather, the former deputy chief of the Pacific Fleet intelligence and part-time referent, the head. the headquarters of the Pacific Fleet (from the late 70s to the early 80s). conclusion from the conversation - our fleet, to put it mildly, in that war made a minimum (at sea) ... but with inappropriate losses.
          1. Petrol cutter 11 June 2018 21: 14 New
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            No one ever guesses what the same fleet will do in the next war. Nobody and never. The country closes current threats to the best of its abilities and capabilities. Already for this I would say thanks to the commander in chief.
            1. bugagich 14 June 2018 00: 27 New
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              Quote: Benzorez
              No one ever guesses what the same fleet will do in the next war. Nobody and never. The country closes current threats to the best of its abilities and capabilities. Already for this I would say thanks to the commander in chief.

              the word is, of course, beautiful ... but that would be out of place ...
              in the interwar period there was a program for the construction of a large ocean fleet. understandably failing for many reasons. but as you have noticed, not "to the best of your ability." that's why (of course, not only, but in many ways) we were left locked. and to a large extent due to overvaluation of production. opportunities, which led to the fact that the ocean fleet could not be built, and Tyulkin remained already small in number.
              and as they said above, it turned out to be useful only a little more than 0 ...
              and now to
              Quote: Benzorez
              Already for this I would say thanks to the commander in chief

              as I understand it, you're talking about People's Commissar Nikolai Gerasimovich. and so he stood by all means for a balanced fleet. and even designed AB projects ... you say thanks to him for understanding that the Tulkin fleet is a utopia? so his direct duty is to understand and develop the fleet, which he did up to 2 heart attacks.
              and this does not correlate with what you said.
              can you or not ... this does not negate the understanding of the naval commanders of the futility of the Tulkin (read "mosquito") fleet, in principle, for such a power as ours.
              and even the task that the Kuznetsov set for the fleet in that war, and this was to ensure the support of the army flanks on the fleet, can be considered completed only with a stretch ...
              guess the reason.
              but the Germans guessed. However...
              and all simply because our fleet was not capable of anything more ... bitter, but true.
              1. Vlad.by 23 June 2018 23: 46 New
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                The Germans guessed only with submarines and BDB. To fight on communications and conducting local landing operations. Yes, and the export of l / s from the Crimea. In all other matters, they, too, got into trouble.
                As a result, all of their large ships were either at the bottom of the sea or interned.
                Our RTOs with Caliber are the same as the German Wolf Packs in the Atlantic.
                The ability to hang a sword of Damocles over communications and coastal objects.
                Just need more of them.
  3. tchoni 8 June 2018 09: 21 New
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    For some reason, it seems to me that only specialization will be effective in this displacement.
    1. NEXUS 8 June 2018 09: 43 New
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      Quote: tchoni
      For some reason, it seems to me that only specialization will be effective in this displacement.

      Displacement is small for specialization. Specialization should be introduced at the level of corvettes, and preferably frigates.
      1. Vladimir1155 8 June 2018 11: 47 New
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        they just refused corvettes, but there isn’t much need for frigates, and universal frigates and corvettes are obtained, but the third rank should be specialized, minesweepers, MPK, MRK, MDK
        1. Wiruz 8 June 2018 14: 03 New
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          just refused corvettes

          Who told you that? belay belay
          and a lot of frigates

          First, let's at least build a little, whether we need a lot, then we will think what what
          1. Vladimir1155 9 June 2018 20: 47 New
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            The program of the Guardian and his brothers is permanently curtailed, they are not laying down new buildings, they are completing what they started ... didn’t you know?
            1. bugagich 10 June 2018 11: 10 New
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              Quote: vladimir1155
              The program of the Guardian and his brothers is permanently curtailed, they are not laying down new buildings, they are completing what they started ... didn’t you know?

              Does this mean frigates are not needed? hardly...
              for all the tragedy we torment 22350. 11356 is already in service. yes, units. but they are needed like no one else.
        2. ser56 8 June 2018 14: 37 New
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          on the contrary, now you need at least 6 frigates at least a la 11356 per fleet ... to write off the old stuff ... before the construction of new 22350 (M) request
          1. TermNachTer 8 June 2018 20: 30 New
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            The country is building what finance and industry allow. Then they will take on larger ships
            1. ser56 9 June 2018 15: 32 New
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              unfortunately it’s hard to agree with you - look what they are building in Zelenodolsk for Vietnam ... but they don’t want to do it for themselves ... repeat
              1. TermNachTer 9 June 2018 20: 25 New
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                I think that we could build for ourselves. Apparently, the fact that they are building in Zelenodolsk for Russia in some ways does not fit. People who are not worse than us are sitting at the Glavmorshtab. Although of course the budget cut should not be discounted.
                1. ser56 13 June 2018 12: 04 New
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                  1) but 2 were built for the Caspian?
                  2) Maybe not worse, but 11346 were left without engines, and 22350 have been building for 12 years ... bully
                  1. TermNachTer 13 June 2018 18: 18 New
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                    The conditions of the Caspian are quite specific. Maybe they are good there. 11356 I hope to go into operation, the engines are made to them. 22350 is problematic because there was a big break in the design and construction of large ships. Alas, this does not go without consequences.
                    1. ser56 13 June 2018 18: 47 New
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                      always amused by the belief in genius and the constant correctness of the authorities ... bully
                      1. TermNachTer 13 June 2018 19: 32 New
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                        I don’t have a blind faith in the genius of leadership, but I think that not the most stupid people are sitting there.
          2. Vladimir1155 9 June 2018 20: 48 New
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            why is it necessary if there is 1155? and the Black Sea Fleet is very well equipped
        3. 4thParasinok 9 June 2018 19: 18 New
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          Quote: vladimir1155
          they just refused corvettes, but there isn’t much need for frigates, and universal frigates and corvettes are obtained, but the third rank should be specialized, minesweepers, MPK, MRK, MDK

          Well, a mishmash in the head of a friend ... Corvette is the ship of rank 3. Minesweeper, MRK, MDK and further is a variant of Corvette for its intended purpose. But torpedo and missile boats, near-field patrolmen, small minesweepers, etc. are the 4th and 5th rank, depending on the displacement.
          1. Vladimir1155 9 June 2018 20: 51 New
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            you are wrong corvettes in rf it is only the guardian and tatarstan with their brothers. Although for a show off, you can call a boat a cruiser.
            1. 4thParasinok 10 June 2018 19: 48 New
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              Quote: vladimir1155
              you are wrong corvettes in rf it is only the guardian and tatarstan with their brothers. Although for a show off, you can call a boat a cruiser.

              According to the classification of the corvette, its displacement can reach up to 1600 tons .. Sometimes it happens more.
              Look for info on the internet, and even better, talk to sailors. Personally, for this I only need to take the phone in my hands ...
              1. Vladimir1155 10 June 2018 20: 32 New
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                Admiral Grigorovich is the lead patrol ship (frigate) of project 11356, ... Displacement, 3 tons (standard) 620 tons (full). that is, it’s not a corvette, but a frigate, and the MRC is too small, so in the Russian Federation there are only those two types of corvettes that I have listed and both of them no longer lay for the Russian Federation
                1. 4thParasinok 10 June 2018 22: 43 New
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                  Offhand, from memory: a series of corvettes-minesweepers with a polymer body is still under construction, I don’t remember the name. I saw a film about him about a year and a half ago, and in particular they showed the manufacturing technology of its body. Coastal minesweeper is also a corvette. They also make coastal guard corvettes. There is nothing in common with Tatarstan, for it is sea, not river. I can’t name the series, because I’m not very interested in the modern fleet, so look for the Old itself.
                  1. Vladimir1155 12 June 2018 09: 17 New
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                    You consider all ships of small displacement corvettes, but the generally accepted classification is different. Something universal and smaller than a frigate is considered a corvette; a corvette is about 100 m long, a frigate 120 -140, an EM 140-150, a cruiser 180-303. Small specialized ships, minesweepers MPK, MRK, are not considered corvettes.
      2. tchoni 8 June 2018 14: 00 New
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        Quote: NEXUS
        Specialization should be introduced at the level of corvettes, and preferably frigates.

        Alas. Frigate due to the features of the application and, in theory, a solid range of navigation must be a universal. And in this format of "about 1000 tons" it is quite realistic to ensure the normal functioning of one type of weapon.
      3. Vlad.by 24 June 2018 00: 17 New
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        But why? Let's say in the division of an MRK 4 shock ships and 2-3 air defense / submarine ships with two shells and something like a waterfall. And on the rest, one Shell, but 2x8 PU.
  4. Vladimir1155 8 June 2018 09: 43 New
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    a good article and that’s all right, of course, there are not many 8 missiles, but two for 8 are already 16, and three for 8 are 24 and here you are the destroyer, but inconspicuous, able to disperse in three places and cross inland waterways between the seas, which is especially important for the Russian Federation, which has an extensive network of rivers and shallow waters, including in the Far East, and seafaring in Karakurt is quite satisfactory
    1. Wiruz 8 June 2018 14: 04 New
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      Of course, 8 missiles are not many, but two by 8 is already 16, and three by 8 is 24 and here you have the destroyer, but invisible

      You, uncle, what is a "destroyer" you know? Do not know. Google to help you hi hi
      1. 4thParasinok 9 June 2018 19: 37 New
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        Quote: Wiruz
        You, uncle, what is a "destroyer" you know? Do not know. Google to help you

        bu-ha-ha, ridiculed ... For a long time I have not seen such comedians. For your information, in different countries and at different times, different ships were called destroyers. So, about 120 years ago, ships with the designation and displacement of Karakurt were considered light cruisers, 80 years ago, they were the leaders of destroyers, and Americans are now called destroyers of the URO by cruisers according to the Russian classification of 40 years ago. So forget your wikipedia.
        1. Wiruz 9 June 2018 20: 24 New
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          What year are we living in now? Take a look around. What is the "destroyer" in the Navy of other countries? What is the "destroyer" at our annual exhibitions in the form of plastic layouts? Got the point? What are the tasks facing these ships, how much they "weigh", how far they can go from the coast.
          And now put next to Karakurt with 24 Gauges, as Vladimir suggests. Sounds like a destroyer? Voooot.
          Now you can laugh hi
          1. Vladimir1155 9 June 2018 20: 44 New
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            what year do we live now? ..... and which countries still have such an unnecessary and ineffective dear. a terribly cumbersome and defenseless thing like a destroyer? list ..... USA CHINA, the Russian Federation has a couple surviving their century .... and that's it
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk 9 June 2018 21: 38 New
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              Quote: vladimir1155
              list ..... USA CHINA, the Russian Federation has a couple surviving their century .... and that's it

              England, Japan, Italy, South Korea .... Continue? :)))))
              1. Vladimir1155 12 June 2018 09: 35 New
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                The destroyer is an attack weapon, a member of the AUG, one destroyer at sea is not a warrior. China, the United States can afford a large fleet, and their destroyers can solve the tasks of a huge squadron suppressing the enemy. And the fact that some countries of the world like the Russian Federation have not yet written off their couple of destroyers solving the frigate-patrol ship tasks, because a new frigate is needed to replace it and it is not there, and the EM has not yet served its term ... this does not characterize the EM as necessary and promising weapon. The old ship is just surviving, used .... bye. By the way, 956 is likely to be written off in the next five years. How many countries of the world have built their own EM in the last 10-15 years? EM outdated!
              2. Vlad.by 24 June 2018 11: 25 New
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                And now the destroyers of the Russian fleet ... why?
                Flag to represent? Or frighten the English inhabitants with lonely crossings in Middle-earth?
                What can a destroyer do that a group of 3 Karakurts cannot do, if at least one of them is with a Shell? A better 2.
                Well, the Leader’s PLO is perhaps more powerful.
                But it is solvable.
            2. Wiruz 10 June 2018 00: 00 New
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              a terribly cumbersome and defenseless thing like a destroyer?

              Uncle, do you know exactly what a destroyer is?
          2. 4thParasinok 10 June 2018 20: 01 New
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            Quote: Wiruz
            What year are we living in now? Take a look around. What is the "destroyer" in the Navy of other countries?
            In the U.S. Navy Classification, destroyers are considered to be all vessels with missiles and displacement of more than 1900 tons. and more. In most countries, the border is 1400-1600 tons. If the Americans retrained the missile cruisers into destroyers, this does not mean that no one else has ships with a displacement of 1500-3000 tons. Just the media are silent about them, but they are, just like a gopher ...
  5. dog of war 8 June 2018 10: 26 New
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    In general, it is clear that ships of the third rank are built in modern economic conditions, since the first and the second rank do not have enough resources. In general, this is absolutely the right decision, you have to start small, and then take down destroyers and cruisers, and now you need a fleet for action in "your seas" and not huge monsters for war across the seas.
  6. RUSLAN 8 June 2018 11: 14 New
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    And I like Karakurt! 800 tons, and it can work along the shore, and on surface targets, and by air ... He would have taken the Ka-226 on board (without basing, not good), so he would have a price By the way, that he carries 8 cells, not 16, I think this is not from the inability to deliver more, but rather because of financial savings!
  7. exo
    exo 8 June 2018 11: 48 New
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    The surface ships of a potential enemy, which may appear in the North and the Far East, these shells will not stop. Anti-submarine capabilities, almost at zero. Air defense, at about the same level. The protection of the water area outside the war period and minor local conflict is their purpose. Not more than that.
    Bravura march about nothing.
    1. tchoni 8 June 2018 14: 06 New
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      You are absolutely right. As an independent unit, the ship is almost zero. In principle, if on these ships we increase the set of cruise missiles, say by abandoning the almost unnecessary AU, then these boats could act as a sort of ersatz arsenal ship in the light version, acting EXCLUSIVELY as part of the squad of ships.
      1. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 16: 23 New
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        Then you need to create air defense ships. So that they are responsible for long and medium distances, and all of his escort on his own at small distances would protect himself from the threats that broke through the long defense. I think the AUGs are already a thing of the past and the head of the group should be an air defense / missile defense and anti-submarine ship with a good aviation group of helicopters. And around this core, it is already possible to build specialized groups of ships to accomplish the task: landing ships, missile, dry cargo ships.
        1. tchoni 8 June 2018 16: 44 New
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          Quote: Bad_Santa
          I think the AUGs are already a thing of the past and the head of the group should be an air defense / missile defense and anti-submarine ship with a good aviation group of helicopters.

          About AUG and the past, I personally doubt it. And the rest - everything is about this. If you don’t have an aircraft carrier (but we don’t have one, it’s the only one under repair), then the ship’s base with a strong air defense (or missile cruiser or BOD with a 300m complex. Frigate with a redoubt.) local air defense at the “karakurt” with the “shell” seems to be at the level of be)
          1. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 16: 54 New
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            Atlant series ships are put in our center, and although they have powerful air defense, their ammunition will not be enough to repel a massive missile strike. Plus, it carries rocket strike weapons. It would not be bad to create a powerful air defense ship with anti-submarine weapons and with a pair of helicopters on board without missile weapons. And around 1 or 3 of these ships to create an escort
            1. tchoni 8 June 2018 18: 36 New
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              Excuse me, what do you mean by "massive missile strike"? Just wondering.
              Quote: Bad_Santa
              It would not be bad to create a powerful air defense ship with anti-submarine weapons and with a pair of helicopters on board without missile weapons.

              I completely agree with this. Such a ship can in principle be created on the basis of frigate 11356 or corvette 20380.
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 18: 52 New
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                Remember the US missile attacks on Syria. If the same blow is inflicted on a group of ships, then in the best case the group will get off with significant damage. And you will either have to sink heavily damaged vessels, or move to the target at the speed of a turtle. That in the first case the task will not be completed, or the group will be destroyed in its entirety in the second case.
                Modern Russia is not able to build such ships, and missile destroyers even more so. To have a strong fleet - you need a strong economy
              3. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 19: 06 New
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                If all inclined launchers were removed on Nakhimov and additional S-400 containers were installed, the aviation group would be increased to 4 helicopters (so that in dangerous areas one or two Ka-27 helicopters would constantly hang in the air and would constantly search for enemy submarines at distant lines from a group), then it would be possible to repel any threat, and such groups of ships only by their presence would allow even the United States to be accommodating. A group led by three such ships and escort missile ships would generally pose a serious threat to any enemy, whether they were on water, under water, or on land in the range of weapons
                1. tchoni 8 June 2018 20: 46 New
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                  Quote: Bad_Santa
                  If all inclined launchers were removed on Nakhimov and additional S-400 containers were installed, the aviation group would be increased to 4 helicopters (so that in dangerous areas one or two Ka-27 helicopters would constantly hang in the air and would constantly search for enemy submarines at distant lines from the group)

                  Yes you, my friend, a dreamer)))
                  I understand you. But it is not all that bad. Remember the raid on shayrat. Let's take the American version of events as a basis. All 59 missiles flew. So they flew and flew within 15-20 minutes according to eyewitnesses. There is an explanation for this. The fact is that there are only 16 ready-to-launch missiles on the berka. The rest need to be "prepared a little" (most likely we are talking about monitoring systems, connecting power, etc.) I assume that the ax is not PCB, but still. So, let’s take our group for, say, 4 karakurts armed with shell and one corvette frigate with a redoubt. Even if the missiles are detected at a horizon (this is about 30 km) at the subsonic speed of the rocket (and for our opponents the rockets are mostly subsonic so far) it is about 90 seconds. Shell performance in one cycle 4 targets 8 missiles. 4 shells. 16 missiles can be shot down in one firing cycle. in 90 seconds there is a chance to repeat the cycle twice and work out the cannons on the debris. In the presence of a redoubt there is a chance that the group of enemy raknts will be detected earlier and that at the time of reaching the shell's range, there will no longer be 32 missiles in it. Plus, do not discount things like electronic warfare. Experience shows that interference with anti-ship missiles is much more effective than air defense weapons. Another disadvantage for the enemy is that he will have to fire at a complex group target. And this is the same certain difficulties with target allocation, the choice of a priority target, etc.
                  Plus, again, no one canceled the threat of a retaliatory strike with equal ranges of RCC. But it’s easier for us if we continue to consider the duel scenario with a couple of Berks. We have only two goals.
                  But, I started dreaming a little and began to draw horses round in a vacuum)
                  1. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 21: 25 New
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                    Well, in my fantasies I painted not only about the present, but also about the near future. You understand the ships you build do not needles. You should always think 50 years ahead. And during this time the enemy will have supersonic anti-ship missiles. And against them it will already be more difficult to work at close distances, so no matter what you need to have a powerful long-range air defense. Even if one of the 20 missiles reaches the target, it will be very bad for any group. A missile can damage any ship and the group will have to go at its speed, and this is the most convenient target for enemy submarines. Tired of just treating the fleet as suicide bombers. Any campaign in the current fleet is doomed to death in a serious war.
                    1. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 21: 27 New
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                      Yes, and it is necessary to build on a modular basis, so that in the case of modernization of some systems, others do not have to be repacked, not to mention a change in the geometry of the ship.
                  2. Pollux 8 June 2018 23: 08 New
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                    Quote: tchoni
                    But it’s easier for us if we continue to consider the duel scenario with a couple of Berks.

                    Meaningless reasoning, “berks” simply can’t get closer to the launch distance of “harpoons”, how will they shoot at our ships?
            2. Pollux 8 June 2018 23: 04 New
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              Quote: Bad_Santa
              It would not be bad to create a powerful air defense ship with anti-submarine weapons and with a pair of helicopters on board without missile weapons.

              Why do not you "caliber" anti-submarine weapons?
              1. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 23: 24 New
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                Helicopters as a means of detection over long distances, and further on the detected submarine can operate anti-submarine ships. It’s easier to rinse the room ... Sorry, it’s easier to use a helicopter and it’s safer to detect and not let the submarine enter the distance of the torpedo strike
              2. Bad_santa 8 June 2018 23: 29 New
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                Submarine calibers only work with torpedo tubes. so that to destroy the submarine, we will have to enter the zone of destruction of the enemy torpedoes. So it’s easier to deliver a gift to the enemy by air in a remote square indicated by helicopters
                1. Pollux 9 June 2018 09: 41 New
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                  Quote: Bad_Santa
                  Submarine calibers only work with torpedo tubes. so that to destroy the submarine, we will have to enter the zone of destruction of the enemy torpedoes.

                  In terms of surface ships, do calibers work only with torpedo tubes?
                  1. Bad_santa 9 June 2018 12: 05 New
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                    In general, it would be better to have two types of missiles in the group at once: supersonic Zircons and subsonic Gauges. Zircons would disable the most dangerous enemy ships and cause him serious damage, and then slow and numerous Caliber would come up and already in the absence of air defense would finish off the enemy completely. As I imagined that I would do such a tandem, then immediately goosebumps climbed ...
        2. Vladimir1155 9 June 2018 20: 45 New
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          right! need small air defense ships
        3. Nemchinov Vl 11 June 2018 22: 01 New
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          perhaps the closest to this would be the undeservedly forgotten pr. 11560 with 24 VPU Caliber / Onyx and SAM Fort-M, preferably modified to the modern level (say with Radar Zaslon, where the AFAR is 360 degrees .). It would be an excellent multipurpose EM, suitable both for the demonstration of the flag, and as the main ship of the KUG.
      2. Petrol cutter 12 June 2018 19: 45 New
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        "As an independent unit ship .."
        As a standalone unit, any suicide bomber. Already tired of writing this. No one plans to fight ships on his own. Gone are the days, however.
        The doctrine of war at sea a hundred years is not the same already! .. All let's dreadnought and be measured ...
    2. TermNachTer 8 June 2018 20: 32 New
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      But nobody assigns the functions of anti-aircraft defense and air defense to it. They will work close to their shores, under the cover of coastal air defense and aviation. With regards to PLO, it is simply ridiculous to use virginia or moose against these crumbs.
      1. Mimoprohodil 10 June 2018 14: 33 New
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        Quote: TermNachTER
        With regards to PLO, it is simply ridiculous to use virginia or moose against these crumbs.
        And why not use diesel-electric submarines, which countries have in bulk?
        1. TermNachTer 11 June 2018 18: 22 New
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          We are talking about the Pacific Ocean and the Barents Sea. In the Pacific Ocean, Japan and the South have DPL. Korea, but they have their own problems. China is more important to them. The Norwegians, possibly Germans, can reach the Barents Sea. But I read that the Germans are now in the ranks of more than one U - bot left. England and France have no DPL. Who else?
  8. Wiruz 8 June 2018 14: 06 New
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    I can’t help but recall that the first Karakurt was promised to transfer the fleet in 2017 winked winked
    Okay, we’re not going to swear, basically the pace is good for now hi hi
  9. Victor Wolz 8 June 2018 14: 06 New
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    Yes, when at least they will build a destroyer, we are pleased with boats and boats.
  10. Jack O'Neill 8 June 2018 15: 05 New
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    It is necessary to build at least corvettes, but not RTOs.
    Well, seriously, there are good 11356! One 11356 is better than, for example, five any RTOs!
    They are stupidly saving, and saving so badly will not bring!
    1. 320423 8 June 2018 15: 32 New
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      I have a feeling that they are just trying to keep the teams! It just seems to me that instead of an artillery installation, they would have installed a more serious air defense
      1. tchoni 8 June 2018 16: 51 New
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        Quote: 320423
        It just seems to me that instead of an artillery installation, they would have installed a more serious air defense

        That's right. On options with a "shell" AU is useless. And she takes her tone of 12-15 along with ammunition. Only,
        Rather, there are still 4-8 launchers for cruise missiles.
        1. Bersaglieri 8 June 2018 20: 53 New
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          As an option, instead of the bow AC, install 2x4 Uranus. Either air defense missile defense
    2. tchoni 8 June 2018 16: 54 New
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      Quote: Jack O'Neill
      It is necessary to build at least corvettes, but not RTOs.

      Everything is very simple: for the price of one frigate, you can build 6 RTOs. If you cover 6 RTOs with 1 frigate with good zonal air defense, then the resulting sandwich will turn out to be much more powerful and more stable than just two frigates.
      1. Bersaglieri 8 June 2018 20: 52 New
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        Absolutely right! Especially taking into account the presence of a near zone on each air defense / missile defense system.
      2. Petrol cutter 8 June 2018 21: 06 New
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        Perfectly in the hole. From what I heard from the leadership, it is precisely from such considerations that TAM proceeds.
    3. Vladimir1155 12 June 2018 09: 24 New
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      I like 11356, but one 1135 is destroyed by one tomahawk and five tomahawks are needed for five mrks at once, 1135 is constrained by sediment, and mrk can also be relocated between the seas by inland waterways. In general, marine coastal areas are shallow, 1135 will not pass there and it will not hide in a shallow bay, it will not fit into any berth. One 1135 is more expensive than 5 mrk it turns out.
  11. Bersaglieri 8 June 2018 20: 51 New
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    If we are talking about defense, coastal mobile complexes are even cheaper - the same Bastion and Caliber-K. Corvettes / MRK seaworthy is already a "projection of force"
  12. arsen69 9 June 2018 02: 26 New
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    What can I say - he is beautiful. Nobody is even close to ships of this size and with such functionality. On ships of a later release, more advanced air defense systems and anti-submarine protection ("Package-NK") will be installed. Although without them - try it, find such a "baby animal" in the ocean ...
    1. Bersaglieri 9 June 2018 21: 17 New
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      Israeli corvettes are close in terms of missile loading (although, of course, Harpoons and Gabrielins are Caliber and Onyx)
  13. LomKuvaldych 9 June 2018 10: 24 New
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    Those. Russia, Karakurt, will have 4 times less than the US destroyers, which have 10 times more missiles. There is nothing to compare with China and Japan either.
    1. 4thParasinok 9 June 2018 20: 51 New
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      Quote: LomKuvaldych
      Those. Russia, Karakurt, will have 4 times less than the US destroyers, which have 10 times more missiles. There is nothing to compare with China and Japan either.

      1. In your opinion, nothing is being built for us now and in the future nothing will be? So those same Corvettes of the Stereguschiy type have already been built 5 and should be another 20. And there is Still Look for the info itself.
      2. Races in the ranks have both destroyers and missile cruisers.
      3. You are aware that missiles are different, including anti-aircraft, so they have no longer 10 cruise missiles, so in a multi-purpose version of everything 8 cruise missiles BGM-109 Tomahawk and 8 anti-submarine missiles RUM-139 VL-Asroc. Yes, in the strike version there are more of them, but no more than 56 tomahawks, the rest are anti-aircraft ... And to your school education I’ll add that they (American destroyers like Arly Burke) have a displacement of 12 times (9648 tons against 800 tons).
      4. Tomahawks get lost ...
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      2. Vladimir1155 13 June 2018 09: 09 New
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        there are no more corvettes of the guarding type and there will be no more than 13 modifications already built and under construction; the series is closed. Russia refused corvettes in favor of MRK
        1. Viktor Afanasev 24 June 2018 21: 04 New
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          If so then sorry. RTOs cannot replace the 20380 corvettes. These ships have different tasks and opportunities. MRK 22800 helpless against submarines and massive air raid ...
      3. Viktor Afanasev 24 June 2018 21: 20 New
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        Unfortunately - we have only three (one under repair) destroyers (SF, Pacific Fleet, on the BF - under repair)
        Project 1144 cruiser - one in repair, one in service (SF), the third in the Pacific Fleet apparently waiting for disposal ...
        Project 1164 cruisers - three, one per fleet (except BF)
        The USA has 66 destroyers and 22 cruisers ... Unfortunately, the comparison is not in our favor ... All hope is only for our remaining nuclear submarines ...
        1. Vladimir1155 25 June 2018 10: 09 New
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          you are only a couple behind Zhieni destroyers and all of them will be written off within 5 years, 1164 couple, 1144 couple including repair
  14. tank66 9 June 2018 11: 35 New
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    Chur, do not spit on me sailors. I have privileges. VUS-commander of a medium tank. But. In the kungasa he crashed on the rocks of Hirano / Aniva Bay /. I love the sea. Karakurt - from the category of ships "a small bug, but smelly." In more we would have any ... at least such. Now, if necessary, put me on the bridge, if you feel sorry for the white tunic, I’ll wear a black oil substitute. Dirk-do not. The crew, only those over 40. A pair of missiles / torpedoes / with special warheads. "Open my eyelids on an aircraft carrier." I will not fail. The song, for the occasion, I know: "... curls, curls, in the mouth it .... the commanders in front .." Moremanam -Vivat !!! / Sorry Saturday /
    1. Bersaglieri 9 June 2018 21: 19 New
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      Saturday, rest ... something like that :)
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  17. ser56 14 June 2018 14: 40 New
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    TermNachTer,
    went in a circle ... request
  18. Viktor Afanasev 24 June 2018 21: 00 New
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    My personal opinion is that for its class and at the moment it is an excellent ship.
    1. We CAN build it normally without wild time shifts
    2. It can carry quite serious weapons in the form of tactical cruise missiles - which we CANNOT deploy on the shore
    3. Can carry anti-ship missiles and anti-submarine missile torpedoes

    Now a few "buts" that do not detract from it in their class, but as usual they are present everywhere)))
    - But he alone is “not a warrior in the field”, with weak air defense / missile defense if he falls into the coverage of enemy aircraft or even anti-ship missiles there are not many chances ... But, in the Baltic and Black, the cover of our aviation is enough for its successful operation.
    - But, in the absence of a sonar complex, any submarine can easily destroy it, and leave even after the shooting was not detected ... Therefore, when entering the sea where an underwater enemy could potentially be located), it is necessary to mate with the BOD, Frigate, Corvette of project 20380, as a last resort with the IPC ...

    I think that the series should be increased and at least 10 units built for each fleet. In parallel, of course, we need to build both frigates and corvettes and move towards the start of the construction of destroyers ...