Turkish Foreign Ministry: you refused - we had to negotiate with the Russians

The head of the Turkish Foreign Ministry, Mevlüt авavuşolu, said that Ankara had to turn to Russia regarding the purchase of C-400 anti-aircraft missile systems, due to the fact that Western countries had refused her, but Turkey is ready to purchase such systems from the United States.

He said that before contacting Russia, Turkey tried to acquire air defense systems from its allies, including the United States, but all refused, and only then had to turn to Russia, but if the United States is willing to sell such systems, Turkey “is ready to get them. ”

Recall that in recent years, tensions have arisen between Turkey and the United States due to the fact of the purchase of the Russian XRS-400. Against the background of the agreement with Russia, the United States refuses to supply advanced fifth-generation F-35 aircraft to Turkey, although Turkey is initially among the countries that financed the creation of these aircraft, as well as manufacturers of parts for them. They motivate their refusal by the fact that buying a C-400 allegedly could lead to a leak of information about the F-35 fighter jets.

Against this background, the United States is seeking to cancel the Russian-Turkish deal, as one of the factors supplying F-35 to Turkey. The United States also offered Turkey alternatives to the Russian C-400.

Earlier, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said that his country would acquire C-400 complexes and would not make any concessions on this issue.

Comments

[ANCIENT]

I told you, Turks won’t buy anything from us, it’s the usual policy to get cheap F35 and their “patriots” from the USA! Noodles are all on our ears! !!

[Muvka]

The contract is signed, sort of. Yes, and half the amount must be transferred ...

[bouncyhunter]

What is this: did the Turkish air-shoe system work? Or still believe the words of Erdogan:

the country will acquire S-400 complexes and will not make any concessions in this matter

Interesting movie ...

[Ovsen]

Quote: bouncyhunter

turkish shoe system in the air has earned

Yes, in lightweight Shoes, even without laces. So that...

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Lamb

Yes to light shoes even without laces

Provident, however ...

[Shurik70]

It is for this reason that the production of Turkish S-400 divisions began only AFTER the advance payment. If the Turks refuse, the advance will remain with us. So the Turk toad will crush refuse to refuse.
And with all the others it is necessary to agree in exactly the same way - an advance of at least 50%, and only then we begin production.

[Hire]

Pasha, hello!

Quote: bouncyhunter

Or still believe the words of Erdogan:

It is definitely impossible to believe. Do not buy? Well, the goblin with them! We have any disagreements with the US on their allies at hand. The growth of conflicts (large, small, different) around the United States demonizes and lowers the authority of this country to zero. We assume that the lost profits for the complexes are our pay in this ideological war. And the S-400 will come in handy.

[bouncyhunter]

Vitya, be healthy! Any disagreement in the camp of a likely adversary is at hand for us - this is a fact. Such a topic would be developed ...

[sabakina]

Pasha, do they really have an analogue of the S-400?

[bouncyhunter]

Well, apparently their mattresses Patriot consider an analogue of the S-400. Or THAAD. True, we must compare prices.

[sabakina]

Pash, as I understand it, THAAD is still a missile defense, not an air defense. And Patriot .... Well, let them think. Then they will have a surprise, as Vinokur said.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: sabakina

Well, let them consider

Let be . And those who believe in Patriot - let him buy it.

[major147]

The explosion at the base of the United States and France in Syria
Explosion at US and French bases in Syria: media report casualties among special forces and military advisers

On the night of June 4, an explosion occurred at a US-French military facility in the province of Racca.

The explosion occurred in the Ain Issa region in northeast Syria. According to Turkish media, the incident occurred on the territory controlled by the "Self-Defense Forces" of the Syrian Kurds, writes Russian Dialogue. According to the latest information, an ammunition depot exploded here. Special forces and military advisers of the two countries are based in this area. According to preliminary data, there are victims. Officially, information about the resonance detonation is not confirmed. The cause of the incident is also not named. On June 1, it became known that fighters of the Russian Federation attacked militants in Syria during the night, despite the presence of the Turkish military in a dangerous area. Previously, international terrorists attacked the positions of the Syrian army in the province of Homs. And at the end of April, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov announced the activation of militants in southern Syria. The Kremlin was ready to provide international partners with evidence of increased terrorist activity.

source

[Yeraz]

Quote: bouncyhunter

What is this: did the Turkish air-shoe system work? Or still believe the words of Erdogan:

why did you understand the words of авavuşoлуlu as refusing the S-400 ???
Turkey is clearly not going to close its airspace with 2 batteries. The point is, by the way, and before that it was that Turkey was ready to buy Western systems in the future if they agreed to sell them. Turkey was ready in the first case too. Well, if you don't want to sell, whine that Turkey has entered into an agreement with the Russian Federation.
Therefore, given that Putin made his first visit to Turkey (for me this is a powerful signal about the level of relations between these countries) given that the first installment has already been made, I think these 2 batteries will be purchased.
In any case, the Russian Federation will not remain in the loser, at least the advance payment has been made, and if there is a refusal, there will be fines, if they are indicated in the contract, or the order for India or simply to join the army will be more quickly executed. S-400 is a product that has good demand will not gather dust.

By the way, the main question is, do Turkish students study in the Russian Federation ??? If not, then it’s just games and the Russian Federation knows about it and plays along.
I just remember the rumors of the sale of S-300 by Russia to Azerbaijan, after a leak of information, that Azerbaijani cadets study in this field in Russian academies.
Turkish S-400 should be served by the Turkish military and cadets should already undergo training, delivery after a year.

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: Yeraz

In any case, the Russian Federation will not remain in the loser

That is why I am calm, like a herd of boas. It’s just interesting what the next feint with ears performed by Turkey will lead to.

[Yeraz]

Quote: bouncyhunter

It’s just interesting what the next feint with ears performed by Turkey will lead to.

if the Russian Federation with such a contract enters the Turkish market this is a very positive step.

[venik]

Quote: bouncyhunter

Interesting movie ...

==========
What the "Bollywood" Indian smells !!!!!

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: venik

What the "Bollywood" Indian smells !!!!!

So, not for me alone.

[Imobile]

It is bad that in our contracts there is no penalty amount. Ours are afraid to frighten away and do not make this point. Now, if there was, we would have earned more than from real exports.

[Black_Vatnik]

According to the Mistrals, as far as I remember, in addition to the money for the helicopter carriers themselves, Paris also paid a penalty.

[Imobile]

They offered 1200 but ours said that we do not need anything and 900 agreed

[Ovsen]

Are the descendants of the Janissaries zayuzi? And I want and pricks and trump does not order.

[q75agent]

Iran, too, once transferred part of the sum for the S-300, then they paid the deposit ..... so that the Turks can still throw

[Piramidon]

Quote: Muvka

The contract is signed, sort of. Yes, and half the amount must be transferred ...

So far, it seems, only an agreement of intent has been signed. The Ottomans, apparently, have gained experience from the Indians - they bring down prices.

[Safevi]

Cavusoglu just talked with Pompeo in Washington and the Turkish media broadcast his words marked with lightning - "Excellent results achieved"

[Maz]

So far, only words. Let's see what happens next.

[cariperpaint]

They will buy it. The contract is signed. Just then something and they also buy) business EPT)

[ver_]

... the main thing is intrigue ..

[Yak28]

The Turks are a NATO country, and that’s it. The European Union also snarls at the USA, is trying to drive Russia, but they are also NATO, which means they can send Russia away at any time with any projects and agreements.

[Lekxnumx]

If Turkey in this matter caves in front of the United States, then the government can be written down in politicians of easy virtue.
And though there are politicians of not easy behavior in nature? rhetorical question

[ANCIENT]

It happens that once in a million years such things are born! The last one was Stalin. ....

[Lekxnumx]

Quote: ANCIENT

It happens that once in a million years such things are born! The last one was Stalin

I won’t try to judge Stalin. I didn’t live in his reign. I respect him only because this guy really fought against the dominance of the dollar in the global economy. Unlike bandits and barbells in the current administration of the post-Soviet space, he was probably the only one who could. But alas. Now we can be impoverished in one night because something happened to some piece of paper across the ocean. But how many clever phrases were invented to make an abstruse description of this nonsense

[ANCIENT]

Alas, it’s alas, but it’s not visible among the politicians of the planet, the one who could stand next to Stalin! !!

[Real russian]

Quote: ANCIENT

Alas, it’s alas, but it’s not visible among the politicians of the planet, the one who could stand next to Stalin! !!

- Hitler.

[I am Russian]

NOT a true Russian

you - db

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Real Russian

Quote: ANCIENT

Alas, it’s alas, but it’s not visible among the politicians of the planet, the one who could stand next to Stalin! !!

- Hitler.

He did not stand. He is dead. What is equality in such situations?

[reservist]

Quote: ANCIENT

... it is not visible among the politicians of the planet, the one who could melt with Stalin alongside! !

are we talking about politicians in general or about current ones?

[ver_]

..ha - and he * left * burry kids, when he began to interfere .., so cute Kaganovich (brother and sister) .. and Beria .., well, what could * worth * from * Koba * expect if he already * I didn’t catch mice * - I rested for half a year at the resorts (you can of course put it mildly - I worked), General Vlasek lost the command of the Kremlin - one continuous mess ..

[Yeraz]

Quote: Lek3338

If Turkey in this matter caves in front of the United States, then the government can be written down in politicians of easy virtue.

Well, if it just bends, then yes. But if in return they get their own benefits, for example, the YPG exit from Manbij and the Turkish army entering there or a discount and still the transfer of a certain technology and production of some part of these systems to Turkish firms, the situation will look completely otherwise.

[Lekxnumx]

Quote: Yeraz

Well, if it just bends, then yes. But if in return they get their own benefits, for example, the YPG exit from Manbij and the Turkish army entering there or a discount and still the transfer of a certain technology and production of some part of these systems to Turkish firms, the situation will look completely otherwise.

Due to the fact that the United States did not give Turkey reconnaissance and UAV strike technology, many Turkish soldiers and officers died. Previously, there were everywhere karakol (outposts) in the mountains to control the mountains where Kurds live. And now one UAV replaces many hard-to-reach outposts. they send a turntable or, in general, a shock UAV. They still have since had an insult to the Americans, I remember watching the performance of the bordeaux commander.

[Yeraz]

Quote: Lek3338

Since then, they still have resentment against the Americans, I remember watching the performance of the Bordeaux commander took.

tell the truth, but they cannot completely cut off relations with them. The Turkish military-industrial complex has access to Western technologies and this should be kept as long as possible while its projects are being implemented. Erdogan recently promised to increase the military budget to 60 billion. in 34 there were 2004 projects now 66.

[Vkd dvk]

They motivate their refusal by the fact that the purchase of the S-400 supposedly could lead to a leak of information about F-35 fighters.

An interesting connection. As if the S-400 systems located in Syria would not be able to collect information about the F-35 of the Israeli Air Force?

[Shahno]

They cannot .... Completely different levels of protection, protocols, and indeed IP management are different in principle.

[Tusv]

Quote: Shahno

They cannot .... Completely different levels of protection, protocols, and indeed IP management are different in principle.

And you just fly to Syria, all the data will immediately be copied, as all the parameters of the Raptor have been copied for a long time

[Shahno]

Well raptor, not an indicator ...

[sabakina]

Eeee, but what is the indicator?

[Shahno]

In terms of avionics, communication systems, software, not an indicator ... The conversation was for the detection, identification and removal of data.

[sabakina]

So I am interpreting for this. Air defense on the drum of a communication system, software, etc. The main thing for him to know is the "drawing". The difference between F-22 and F-35 is only in the filling. Gliders are made using a single technology.

[Shahno]

Well, they’ve already confused a couple of times, well, at least the Iranians got it ...

[sabakina]

Quote: Shahno

Well, they’ve already confused a couple of times, well, at least the Iranians got it ...

Pavel, are you talking to anyone right now?

[Shahno]

Vyacheslav, I spoke to you ... Well, you are not one of those who deny the obvious. I hope so.

[sabakina]

Pavel, I did not understand your zigzag of thought. Who mixed up what they mixed up and where does the Iranians?

[q75agent]

when you fly to bomb Iran, hope so it’s a pity only your pilot’s family will be

[Yeraz]

Quote: Shahno

They can not .... Completely different levels of protection, protocols, and indeed IP management is different in principle

the question is for you. Can’t F-35 also be able to collect some S-400 parameters ??
here is not a double-edged sword ??

[Shahno]

Yes, I agree ... Therefore, with 400 and Ф 35 in the same system, this is a mutual drain. No one will allow this ...

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Yeraz

Quote: Shahno

They can not .... Completely different levels of protection, protocols, and indeed IP management is different in principle

the question is for you. Can’t F-35 also be able to collect some S-400 parameters ??
here is not a double-edged sword ??

Of course, they can and will. And it has always been so. Opponents always study each other first. It is not a matter of declassification, but of the flexibility of restructuring, re-adjusting properties, and a wealth of applications.

[Vkd dvk]

Quote: Shahno

They cannot .... Completely different levels of protection, protocols, and indeed IP management are different in principle.

Are the radio systems completely different there? Is it really necessary for air defense students to know the communication protocols and read orders? Or is it enough to see the airplane itself, to detect radio signals, frequencies of all equipment, locators, radiation patterns, and practice on the fact that there are military manuals?

[net0103net]

But I wrote about who Turkey is. But again ... NOBODY LISTEN. They need our gas pipeline, not air defense systems. They did not even understand that they wanted to buy from us. All these flirting just for Russia to make Turkey a new gas tap. I already wrote that Turkey is far from NATO, but it is even further from us - this is the enemy: it was, is and will always be, while we are alive. She is in NATO, and that’s it. Wake up, woe-analytics!
Suvorov said that Russia has only two allies - this is the army and navy ... Maybe you think you are smarter than the generalisimus, who did not lose a single battle? Maybe the "novelty" hit you in the head ?! So it will pass soon ..

[cost]

this was not said by Suvorov

[net0103net]

Better read the story, Suvorov said. And Alexander 3 forced to go on the attack slowly in close formation in the Austrian manner and beautifully paced. He ditched a lot of Russian people for the sake of this beauty, because he was neither a strategist nor a tactician, and he did so much to annoy them.
Therefore, it is deeply parallel to me what and for whom he spoke there. The parrot is also able to talk.

[cost]

spin the drum

[net0103net]

And how are you up to such epaulettes "earned" something? )) connoisseur, damn it))

[PalBor]

Quote: net0103net

Better read the story, Suvorov said. And Alexander 3 forced to go on the attack slowly in close formation in the Austrian manner and beautifully paced. He ditched a lot of Russian people for the sake of this beauty, because he was neither a strategist nor a tactician, and he did so much to annoy them.
Therefore, it is deeply parallel to me what and for whom he spoke there. The parrot is also able to talk.

Actually, Alexander III was nicknamed the Peacemaker, since there was not a single war with him. Whom did he kill?

[Weyland]

Quote: net0103net

And Alexander 3 forced to go on the attack slowly in close formation in the Austrian manner and beautifully paced. He ditched a lot of Russian people for the sake of this beauty, because he was neither a strategist nor a tactician, and he did so much to annoy them.

This is where and when? Alexander III was nicknamed the “Peacemaker” because he didn’t wage wars and didn’t allow anyone in Europe! With him there was only a small conflict under Kushka (1885) - and we did pretty well throw the Afghans with the hands of the recently conquered Turkmens!

[net0103net]

Yes, this is my kinolap, I was mistaken. I don’t know the tsars and their true deeds, because I know for sure that it wasn’t from the tsars in Russia that the good came and never it came from them. .
Here you are, TSARELUBSY, tell me, the troops in Yugoslavia for the last time who dared to introduce the "king" or who else? They did not betray us, but we betrayed them, would leave them completely without help - the black shame is indelible to us until the end of time. So who made the decision to stop badass there? As you find the answer, you will understand that it is not from the tsars that blessings and clever thoughts come from Russia. I read a biography of Suvorov, quite detailed. Initially, I was not mistaken - you were mistaken.

[Weyland]

Quote: net0103net

I don’t know the tsars and their true deeds, because I know for sure that it wasn’t from the tsars in Russia that the good came and never it came from them.

Audible nonsense! If you do not know the kings and their true deeds, then you by virtue of this fact you cannot know for sure about whether the good came from them in Russia!

Quote: net0103net

They did not betray us, but we betrayed them.

In fact, Yugoslavia was not even a part of the Warsaw Treaty, and all of the 60s-80s were actively friends with NATO countries - so formally we do not owe them anything!

Quote: net0103net

troops to Yugoslavia for the last time who dared to introduce the "king" or who else?

But actually, it was precisely because of Serbia that we (specifically, the martyr sovereign) harnessed themselves to the WWII and got February and October 1917 in the end. And what about the “march on Pristina” .. what did he give?

[Karenius]

Quote: Weyland

Quote: net0103net

I don’t know the tsars and their true deeds, because I know for sure that it wasn’t from the tsars in Russia that the good came and never it came from them.

Audible nonsense! If you do not know the kings and their true deeds, then you by virtue of this fact you cannot know for sure about whether the good came from them in Russia!

Quote: net0103net

They did not betray us, but we betrayed them.

In fact, Yugoslavia was not even a part of the Warsaw Treaty, and all of the 60s-80s were actively friends with NATO countries - so formally we do not owe them anything!

Quote: net0103net

troops to Yugoslavia for the last time who dared to introduce the "king" or who else?

But actually, it was precisely because of Serbia that we (specifically, the martyr sovereign) harnessed themselves to the WWII and got February and October 1917 in the end. And what about the “march on Pristina” .. what did he give?

No need to speculate ...
RI was obliged for itself to harness itself to the WWI, so that it would not be like in the 41st — to fight against a united Europe.
February and October on the conscience of Kolenka.
According to Pristina. Well, in the morning the Drunk woke up sober and let's go call apologize to Washington. Then the Serbs were slaughtered there for this Russian march.
Yugoslavia has always stood at a distance from the USSR? Well, 7 attempts to kill Tito will beat off the desire to be friends with the leader of all time and peoples for a long time.
Khrushchev, by the way, said there: "what, you have your own socialism, we have our own." He told his brother-in-law not to print this: "do not tease the geese." Something like this. +/-

[Weyland]

Quote: Karenius

RI was obliged for itself to harness itself to the WWI so that it wasn’t like in the 41st - to fight against a united Europe

With what joy? For the British then to omit Germany was no less important than in WWII!

Quote: Karenius

February and October on the conscience of Kolenka

then Peter I: most of the problems of RI are an echo of his reforms! Of course, the martyr emperor should have been tougher - for example, to shoot Guchkov, Milyukov and Rodzianko as the empress advised him!
Well, and again: I would agree to betray the Allies and conclude a separate peace, and William offered it to us on very favorable terms) - yes, there would be no evolution. Only now the betrayal was not in the style of the sovereign martyr (unlike EBN )

Quote: Karenius

7 attempts to kill Tito will repel the desire to be friends with the leader of all times and peoples for a long time.

Do not you think that these 7 assassination attempts are not a cause, but a consequence of Tito’s corresponding policy? By the way, the collapse of Yugoslavia and the genocide of the Serbs is precisely the result of his "Leninist" policy: in fact, he made from a single country confederation! And he didn’t clean up the fascist shortcomings either (as did Khrushch, who had amnestied Bandera back in 1955 - a year before the others). No wonder: Khrushchev is Ukrainian, and Tito is Croat

[net0103net]

tell Weyland how it turns out - you have everything around the kings, but the king himself doesn’t.
Not such people built Russia and descended on descendants! ) You see a newcomer, like this ... "foreign herd")) Troll in general.

[Weyland]

Quote: net0103net

. You see a newcomer, like this ... "foreign herd"

Who would say ... A man completely unfamiliar with Russian history? You Communists, in addition to one and a half quotes from Lenin nothing in the head - All you would have to completely deny the obvious - in particular, the role of the individual in history!

[net0103net]

Unfamiliar with the story? ... Well, I don’t know ... did you study military history at the university? The civilian version of the story is sour vomit compared to this course. And the point here is not the volume or secrecy of knowledge. The point is their integrity and orientation - they give clarity what you can do in life and what cannot be done as well. Moreover, civilians are overwhelmingly unsuitable for studying military history - they are not able to pass any exams because they do not know what military art is. Have you studied military culturology? Here is lecture number 2, quote "... the flip side of any culture is always the ability to lead and resolve a military conflict. ..." If my statements were incomprehensible to you and you did not attach importance to them, I only sympathize with you. I was taught to see where the enemy is and where is the friend. I was taught to beat the enemy so that I did not have to return to this question a second time. Thanks to such a subject as history, I am well aware of such values ​​as human dignity, the brotherhood of peoples, historical truth and justice (do not confuse with the usual yard "truth") and I clearly understand who the enemy is for my Motherland and for me personally. I have no trouble in my soul. I do not suffer from the question - is there justice in the land? I do not wait for someone to do everything for me ... And all this is a real story that decides who is worthy of who - not. You will never get such a basis based on this subject and adjacent to it. None of the universities has this now. You didn’t go beyond the “philosophy” of the gateway, therefore, to say something, you need quotes.

[Weyland]

Quote: net0103net

The civilian version of the story is sour vomit compared to this course. And the point here is not the volume or secrecy of knowledge. The point is their integrity and orientation - they give clarity what you can do in life and what cannot be done as well.

White had excellent generals and not a single politician. The reds vice versa. Result to remind?

Quote: net0103net

I was taught to see where the enemy is and where is the friend. I was taught to beat the enemy so that I did not have to return to this question a second time.

We successfully defeated external enemies. And from the internal they didn’t save themselves: “Small republics perish from an external enemy, and large ones from an internal ulcer” (N. Machiavelli - the subject was in the subject, and in military history too!)

Quote: net0103net

I feel good and values ​​like human dignity, brotherhood of peoples, historical truth and justice

Brotherhood of nations? Which ones? And most often they betray whom we saved from genocide! Do not do good, do not get evil!

[net0103net]

You are not a military man; you never really won. And this, in this case, says it all. Not only that, you are poorly informed, even in the last war in Chechnya, not to mention the rest. In general, you are right, but what exactly - you do not know. Therefore, denying my point of view on your part was a mistake - you need to shoot accurately.

[net0103net]

The march to Pristina gave friends of the Serbs who, even in the most desperate conditions, were able to drop a rusty Soviet missile into the fat engine compartment of the latest stealth bomber. But with the Serbs, I would go for reconnaissance, and with you Weyland - for nothing in the world .... I went for reconnaissance, I’m not joking or joking now, I’m absolutely serious.

[Mordvin 3]

Quote: net0103net

A march to Pristina gave Serb friends

He didn’t give a damn. The Serbs wanted our warriors to control everything, and we closed at the airport.

[net0103net]

Not everything is so bad, something is left. Remember the parade of victory. But, I ask you not to comment on this. Personally, if I consider the guests of this event, I have more hopes than any significant considerations. In general, let the Crimean bridge stand and friendship between the Slavs grows stronger in spite of everything. )

[Weyland]

Quote: net0103net

But with the Serbs I would go into reconnaissance, and with you Weyland - for nothing in the world ...

Mutually! With the communist and I wouldn’t go into reconnaissance!

[bald]

Well wag in a circle, yes. Well, I would say - they are worth it.

[mark2]

Ah-ah! ... Turks thought up to get off!

[Old26]

Trade in the East is a holy cause. And Turkey is trying to take full advantage of this. She has been admitted to the European Union for almost 100 decades now. Motivating, let's look at your behavior. After 2, when they announced a competition for a new air defense system and which China won (we, Americans and Europeans flew over) and the United States pressed Turkey very hard, forcing them to cancel the competition conditions, Turkey simply had no choice. And she chose our S-2013 not because she considered it the “most-most,” but simply to annoy the Americans and have a bargaining chip.
As for the F-35 aircraft. As far as I heard, deliveries have already been paid (if anyone knows, more precisely - correct if I'm wrong). But the S-400 is a trump card that can make Americans go back on track with a refusal to supply aircraft. Moreover, I do not exclude the possibility that having bought a division or two from us, they will also buy Patriots.
Here, each side has enough leverage to put pressure on the other. The Americans are unlikely to be able to act very Tough on their NATO ally. This will also be a signal to other NATO members that we must move away from the Americans. In short, so far only rumors of what will happen in real life - wait and see

[Xscorpion]

Quote: Shurik70

It is for this reason that the production of Turkish S-400 divisions began only AFTER the advance payment. If the Turks refuse, the advance will remain with us. So the Turk toad will crush refuse to refuse.
And with all the others it is necessary to agree in exactly the same way - an advance of at least 50%, and only then we begin production.

I agree, but the statements of the diplomat should not be betrayed. He speaks ordinary duty phrases so as not to complicate the external situation. Little depends on Mead in matters of military-technical cooperation.

[net0103net]

Big money is not given in advance, they simply can not be returned and live on like this. History of wars does not teach you anything.

[bang]

Quote: Real Russian

Quote: ANCIENT

Alas, it’s alas, but it’s not visible among the politicians of the planet, the one who could stand next to Stalin! !!

- Hitler.

Judging by the results, Hitler can only lie nearby. Churchill and Roosevelt can sit next to Stalin.
Whoever Stalin was, just not a fool.

[Weyland]

Quote: net0103net

You are not a military man; you never really won. (...) Therefore, denying my point of view on your part was a mistake - you need to shoot accurately.

Do you think real victories happen only in war? I agree that you need to shoot accurately - but what does the denial of the role of the individual in history have to do with it? Would break off at the brazen attempt on Paul I - and our Cossacks would wash their boots in the Indian Ocean together with the Napoleonic hussars!

[Karenius]

Quote: Weyland

I agree that you need to shoot accurately - but what does the denial of the role of the individual in history have to do with it?

I’ll add here ... Sometimes not only Personalities change the course of history, but also Individuals :) ... For example, the great Beibars, who stopped the Mongols, somehow angered the behavior of two of his guards, and he told them that he would execute a little later their. So these miserable with fear killed Baybars themselves. :)