Shroud of turin

75
Legends about the miraculous images of Jesus Christ have existed for many centuries. It is widely known, for example, the life of Saint Veronica, a pious Jerusalem woman who submitted her headcover on the way to Calvary Jesus. Christ wiped them sweat and blood from the face, and on the coverlet His face was miraculously imprinted. No less known story about the king of Edessa Abgar V the Great, to whom Jesus sent cards with his non-human image and thereby healed leprosy. According to the Gospel of John, at the conclusion of his farewell supper, Jesus Christ wiped his face with a towel with which he had before wiped the feet of the apostles, after which the image of Jesus' face also remained on it. It is the “copies” from this face which are now officially called “The Merciful image of our Lord Jesus Christ.” The originals of these relics, if they existed, were lost in immemorial times.





Nowadays, there is only one relic with the image of Christ, which claims authenticity and for over 100 years has attracted the attention of believers and scholars from all over the world. Back in the city 1506 in the Bull of Pontifex of Rome, Pope Julius the Second declared it "the most reliable, purest shroud (proeclarissima sindone) that our Savior was dressed in when he was placed in a coffin." And Pope Paul VI in 1978 called it "the most important relic of Christianity." This is, of course, about the famous Shroud of Turin, an exact copy of which is the famous American scientist John Jackson in 1978. handed over to the Russian Orthodox Church. In 1997 was His Holiness Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia Alexy in the Moscow Sretensky Monastery consecrated the image on the copy of the Shroud as the Sacred Image of the Savior. The problem, however, lies in the fact that all these not man-made images, not excluding the shroud of interest to us, seemed to be unknown to the Christians of the first centuries of the new era. Thus, the Bishop of Lyons, Iriney (130-202), a person who was personally acquainted with the closest disciple of the Apostle John the Baptist, the Bishop of Smyrna Polycarp, wrote: "The bodily appearance of Jesus Christ's face is unknown to us." The great theologian Augustine also complained that there was no way to know what Jesus looked like. Supporters of the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin tried to circumvent this contradiction with the help of the Gospels unrecognized by the official Church - the apocrypha. As you know, after the death of Jesus, his secret disciples Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus, with the permission of Pilate, removed the body from the cross and "wrapped it in sheets with incense, as the Jews usually bury." A day and a half later, Christ was resurrected and the empty “veil” was first discovered by Mary Magdalene, and then by the apostles Peter and John. However, the faithful Jews could not touch the ritual clothes of the deceased, and therefore the funerary clothes of the resurrected Jesus Christ were taken by Pilate's wife and “put in a place known only to her.” Apparently, it was in this “place known to Pilate’s wife” that many shrouds were later “found”. The first one was discovered in 525 (according to other sources - in 544) in Edessa (the modern Turkish city of Urfa). By the 15th century, the 40 Shrines of Jesus Christ were historically recorded in the Christian world. Currently, Catholic abbeys, cathedrals and temples in Western Europe are carefully preserved and periodically exposed to worship by believers at least 26 "the original burial clothes (shrouds) of Jesus Christ." In addition to Turin, the most famous shrouds are still in Besancon (Besancon), Cadwin (Cadoin), Champiet (Champiegne), Xabregas (Xabregas), Oviedo (Oviedo) and other cities. In the twentieth century, during discussions about the Shroud of Turin, researchers managed to get to many of these shrouds, proving the falsity of all these relics. The most shocking character was the conclusion about the counterfeitness of the Bezanskon Shroud. On it, besides the image of the body of the dead Jesus Christ, there was an inscription in an unfamiliar language. Legend claimed that it was made by the hand of Jesus Christ (variants: Apostle Thomas, who delivered an image to King Avgar on the orders of Jesus Christ; Apostle John, who kept the Shroud and signed it with his hand; Apostle and Evangelist Luke, who painted the image on the shroud of the shroud Jesus Christ). However, it turned out that the inscription was made in the XIV century in Arabic and reflects the views of Islam on Jesus Christ. But now the Shroud of Turin turned out to be an exceptional exception to this rule and it was not at all easy to prove or reject its authenticity.

At present, it looks like a linen cloth 4,3 by 1,1 meters long, against a yellowish-white background of which yellowish-brown spots are visible, somewhat vague, but folding into a human figure. When spread out, on the left half of the canvas, an image of a man in a supine position appears, face up, with his head to the center of the fabric, on the right half of the canvas, an imprint from the back. Darker reddish-brown spots are also noticeable on the shroud, possibly corresponding to the wounds of Christ inflicted with a whip, needles of a crown of thorns, nails and a spear. If you believe the testimony of eyewitnesses of the 1353th century, earlier the image was much brighter, but now it barely appears. The first documentary mention of the shroud of interest to us dates back to 1357, when the relic appeared in the possession of Count Geoffroy de Charny near Paris. De Charny himself claimed that he "owns the shroud that once dwelt in Constantinople." In 1389 the shroud was exhibited in the local church, which caused a large influx of pilgrims. Oddly enough, the church authorities were very skeptical about the appearance of the relic. For its demonstration, Bishop Henri de Poitiers reprimanded the rector of the church, and his successor Pierre d'Arcy in 6 even appealed to Pope Clement VII of Avignon (modern Catholic historiography considers Avignon popes to be antipopes, but does not throw them out of their history) with a request to ban public displays of the Shroud. At the same time, he referred to the testimony of a certain artist, who remained anonymous, who allegedly confessed to making this canvas, repented and received from him, from Bishop Pierre, forgiveness for his sacrilege. As a result, on January 1390, 1532, Clement VII issued a decree according to which the shroud was recognized as an artistic reproduction of the original veil in which Joseph of Arimathea wrapped the body of Christ after the execution. In 1578, the shroud was damaged during a fire in the church of the city of Chambery, which, however, did not touch its central part. In 1983, the granddaughter of the Comte de Charny gave the shroud to the Duke of Savoy, who brought it to Turin, where to this day it is kept in a special ark in the Cathedral of Giovanni Batista. The last crowned representative of the Savoy dynasty - the ousted king of Italy Umberto II - bequeathed the shroud to the Vatican, whose property it became in XNUMX.



So, for many centuries the Shroud of Turin was not considered unique and did not attract much attention of the public. That all changed in 1898, when the shroud as a work of art was exhibited in Paris. Before closing the exhibition, archaeologist and amateur photographer Secondo Pia first photographed the face of the Shroud of Turin. When the plate appeared, it turned out that the image on the canvas was a negative. At the same time, the image in the photo turned out to be much clearer than on the canvas, which allowed the experts to draw conclusions about the anatomical perfection of the image and even about the presence of characteristic features of the rigor mortis of the body. New photos taken in 1931, confirmed the view that the image on the shroud is the imprint of a real corpse, and not a picture or imprint of a statue. At the same time, it turned out that a person once wrapped in this veil had a pigtail on the back of his head, which was a complete surprise for historians: after all, there is no pigtail on any of the famous images of Christ. The crown of thorns, judging by the drops of blood on the head, resembled a miter, which contradicts the medieval images of the crown in the form of a crown of the European type, but is consistent with modern data. Hands pierced with nails in the wrists, not palms, which is also contrary to the medieval traditions of the Crucifixion image, but fully consistent with modern archaeological finds of crucified people and experimental data that found that nails hammered into the palm of a corpse are not able to hold the body on the cross. Thus, data were obtained that indirectly testify to the authenticity of the Shroud, but at the same time questioning the bloody stigmata on the body of some saints and their followers: after all, they had open wounds on their palms. But the Shine of Turin acquired a truly worldwide reputation in 1952 after a thirty-minute program of WNBQ-TV (Chicago). Until then, the disputes about its authenticity attracted the attention of only narrow circles of believers and skeptics-scientists opposing them, but now this problem has become the focus of attention of the largest mass media of the whole world.

One of the main arguments of skeptics was the absence of any information about the existence of the shroud for thirteen centuries from the moment of the crucifixion of Christ until the appearance of a relic in medieval France. True, some sources report that the crusaders, who set up camp near Constantinople in 1203, saw in one of the churches of this city the burial shroud of Christ depicting his figure. But when a year later the crusaders captured and plundered the great city, this shroud was not found. It has been suggested that he was abducted by the Templars, who secretly kept him for over a hundred years. Interestingly, the ancestor of Geoffroy de Charny, in the possession of whom the shroud appeared in 1353, bore the title of Prior of the Knights Templar of Normandy and in 1314 was burned at the stake with the Grand Master Jacques de Male. However, historians have no data to identify this mysterious shroud with the shroud of interest to us, and if they do, the problem will still remain unsolved: the date of the first mention of the shroud will be shifted by only 150 years, which is clearly not enough. The supporters of authenticity of the Shroud also proved their arguments. Indirect evidence of the early origin of the shroud may be, for example, the close coincidence of proportions and details of the face on the shroud with the icon of the icon of the monastery of St. Catherine on Mount Sinai (45 matches) and the image of Christ on the gold coin of Justinian II (65 matches). True, as skeptics point out, remains unknown: the icon and coins copied from the shroud, or was it the other way around?

In the study of the fabric of the Shroud, 49 pollen of plant species was found, of which 16 are found in Northern Europe, 13 belong to desert plants growing in southern Israel and in the Dead Sea, 20 - found in southwestern Turkey and Syria. This study proved Middle Eastern origin, if not of the shroud itself, then at least the fabric on which it was made, but did not answer the main question - about the time of its manufacture.

In the fall of 1978, the shroud was put on public display. This event was dedicated to the 400 anniversary of its appearance in Turin. Historians took advantage of this case for a more detailed study of the shroud. When microphotographing in polarized light and computer scanning, it was found that coins were put on the eyes of the corpse, one of which turned out to be an extremely rare Pilate mite, on which the inscription “Emperor Tiberius” was made with an error. Skeptics, however, doubt that among the Jews of the beginning of our era there was a widespread Greek rite to place over the eyes of the dead coins that were intended to be paid to Charon. In addition, they very reasonably note that the Jews themselves wrapped only the body of the deceased with their own shroud, while they wrapped their heads with a separate piece of cloth. These objections do not refute the above conclusions about the authenticity of the image of the crucified body, but leave open the question of the identity of the executed person and the time of the occurrence of this relic. Therefore, throughout the twentieth century and nowadays, researchers are really worried and worried about only two problems: the exact date of manufacture of the shroud and the technique of its manufacture. In particular, it was hypothesized that the crucified was a member of one of the early Christian communities, crucified during times of persecution of Christians. According to another version, the shroud was artificially created in the IV century, which is characterized by the flourishing of the cult of Christian relics and their mass appearance in the “market”. All theoretically possible methods of obtaining an image of a living or dead body on linen fabric were tried, but the prints differed significantly in structure and quality from the image on the shroud. The only exception can be considered an experiment on a living person, conducted in the Vatican. The test subject's hands were moistened with lactic acid in a thousand-fold dilution (at about this concentration, it is released with sweat under stress and high loads) and powdered with red clay heated to 40 degrees. Two hours later, fairly distinct tissue prints were obtained.

At the same time, researchers found traces of hemoglobin, bilirubin and other components of the blood, which could belong only to humans or to higher primates. Blood type was IV. But there were also traces of paint. Previously it was assumed that she hit the canvas during copying: in different years the shroud was copied at least 60 times. However, studies have shown that in some places the fabric of the Shroud is colored not with blood, but with artificial purple, which was learned to be made in the Middle Ages. Thus, it was proved that the unknown master still “painted on” the image of tempera on a gelatinous basis, and this was done not earlier than the XIII century, when this technique of painting lines appeared. The obtained data could indicate both the late origin of the relic and its “restoration” in the Middle Ages. University Professor South Carolina Daniel C. Skavron and French researchers L. Pikknet and K Prince even suggested that in 1492, a great connoisseur of light and colors, Leonardo da Vinci, had a hand in it. In that year, Leonardo saw the shroud in Milan, perhaps he painted on the face of Jesus Christ in the so-called complementary, reversible colors, which led to the appearance of a positive image of Segundo Pia on the photo negative.

The most significant milestone in the study of the shroud was 1988, when the Roman Catholic Church gave permission for its radiocarbon research. This work was entrusted to three independent laboratories - the Geneva Center for Scientific Information and Documentation, the University of Oxford and the University of Arizona. Representatives of each of these centers received unmarked vials with samples of four fabrics: in one of them was a piece of the shroud, in the other - the fabric of the Roman Empire, in the third - the fabric of the early Middle Ages, in the fourth - the fabric of the early 14th century. The findings of all three laboratories were disappointing: with an accuracy of 95%, a radioactive analysis established that the shroud fabric was made between 1260 and 1390. Archbishop Anastasio Alberto Ballestero of Turin was forced to agree with this conclusion. Following him, Pope John Paul II, during a visit to Africa in his speech on 28 on April 1989, stated that the Catholic Church only recognizes the Shroud of Shrine as a sacred relic - an image painted on canvas, which is used in pre-prayer worship in all Catholic and Orthodox temples, but not as genuine funerary blankets of Jesus Christ. Thus, the Vatican officially recognized the result of a scientific study of the age of the Shroud of Turin. The words of the Pope did not affect the popularity of this relic. Her demonstrations in 1998 and 2000 aroused constant excitement. Next time it is supposed to be put on display in 2025. Maybe scientists are waiting for new discoveries and surprises?
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  1. +9
    4 June 2018 05: 33
    God is omniscient and omnipotent ... So why do you need to resort to the help of plump ones to communicate with him ... With tight hands ...
    1. +7
      4 June 2018 09: 56
      Probably then why schoolchildren are not left to their own devices, on the basis of the principle that if the almighty God wants to, they will learn everything themselves, they themselves will know and understand everything. But for something, students get a mentor - a teacher. Of course, teachers are different, some are plump, some are slender, but if there were none at all, the flock would have scattered somewhere and the Babylonian pandemonium would have arrived. Everyone would believe in "their" God. But it is understood that the Church is a gathering of believers, based on the words of Christ: "where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am in the midst of them." For this, shepherds and teachers are needed.
      1. +2
        4 June 2018 14: 54
        When a person speaks to God ... This is a prayer ... When a person speaks to God it is schizophrenia ... All the shepherds begin the sermon with words ... God told me ...
        1. +4
          4 June 2018 21: 06
          All the shepherds begin the sermon with the words ... God told me.

          I have never heard such an option. As a rule they say: "The gospel says ......."
    2. 0
      5 June 2018 14: 37
      Quote: Vard
      God is omniscient and omnipotent ... So why do you need to resort to the help of plump ones to communicate with him ... With tight hands ...

      No one forbids praying at home.
      But I'm afraid without a priest and 2x words no one will connect
      1. 0
        1 July 2018 21: 42
        Quote: Vol4ara
        No one forbids praying at home.
        But I'm afraid without a priest and 2x words no one will connect

        You can pray anywhere and anyway, the main thing is that the words come from the heart! And if you want to read, there’s a lot of Orthodox prayer books even on the Internet.

        And so - there is still the Holy Sacrament, which a simple lay person has no right to perform and does not have the power and grace of the Holy Spirit. And without the Sacraments (Communion, Anointing, etc.), a person falls away from the Church.
    3. +2
      7 June 2018 02: 20
      ... nothing personal - just a business ..
      1. 0
        1 July 2018 21: 43
        Quote: ver_
        ..nothing personal is just a business ..

        Someone may be a business, but for many - a way of life.
  2. +6
    4 June 2018 05: 46
    An interesting situation turns out, there is a shroud with the image of a face, there is a tomb of the Lord, but there is no body or even human remains. so how can you believe it? If even the Bible (the book of the dead from Greek) and here they wrote all and sundry ???
    1. +2
      5 June 2018 05: 01
      Quote: s.vitalik2014
      If even the Bible (the book of the dead from Greek) and here they wrote all and sundry ???
      If the Bible is not read as a sacred text - this is a severe extremist trash ... the old testament ..
    2. 0
      1 July 2018 21: 47
      Quote: s.vitalik2014
      An interesting situation turns out, there is a shroud with the image of a face, there is a tomb of the Lord, but there is no body or even human remains. so how can you believe it? If even the Bible (the book of the dead from Greek) and here they wrote all and sundry ???

      1. Firstly, the Bible - well, in general, never the ancient Egyptian "Book of the Dead", they are absolutely different. Moreover, the Bible (literally - Books) is a huge collection of very diverse texts.

      2. Actually, the Holy Sepulcher with the descent of Agios Fotos, the Holy Light, and the Shroud of Turin, and the Eden image, and the Plate of Veronica - CONFIRM the extraphysical nature of Christ and His Resurrection. In particular, read about the analysis of microburns on the wings of the Shroud of Turin on the inside with traces of radiation like a nuclear explosion ...

      Begin at least with a little work by Father Gleb Kaleda "The Shroud of Turin."
      1. 0
        2 July 2018 05: 42
        ... by the way - it’s very funny, in the Bible God punishes the inhabitants of the cities of Sodom and Gomor for their sins by the eruption of the volcano Vesuvius .. It happened in 1631 .. There is a stela with this date .. Excavations confirm this time ....
        The question is, when was this Bible written? This work is clearly sponsored by the Vatican .. and the Russian Orthodox Church in * a clip-on * ..
  3. +7
    4 June 2018 06: 01
    Back in Soviet times, in the journal "Science and Religion" I read about this artifact, then about its later research, but still the question is how the image was applied. This is the first. And second, but is the face of Christ true there? because if I remember, and Wikipedia to help
    The relic was first recorded in France in 1353.

    It turns out such a thing, a garden vegetable (with a long root and very sharp) knows it, it is not clear where it has been for more than 1000 years, again this vegetable, as it was stored here, is here from under the bed, a wonderful thing ... By the way, if you believe the researchers who they checked the square, the cloth on which the face was applied was made much later than the crucifixion of Christ ... But as Vladimir Semyonovich sang - Who believes in Mohammed, who in Allah, who in Jesus, who does not believe anyone ... "therefore, believers I don’t want to offend, but the fact remains. The whole world (well, let it be the whole) believes in a miracle about the Jewish prophet. How cool the Jews have divorced everyone. And for the THIRD millennium they have been using it, and given that Islam has roots from the same stories, practically the Koran and the Bible in many of their foundations come from the Jewish Torah. This is not my statement, this is Zachariah Sichin, in his book 12 planet ...
    God does not hear the poor and the sick!
    1. dSK
      +4
      4 June 2018 06: 51
      Quote: Fitter65
      The whole world (well, let it be for the whole) believes in a miracle about the Jewish prophet. Because how cool the Jews divorced everyone. And the THIRD millennium has been using it

      Most of the world's 25 million Jews profess Judaism. Of the 2 billion Christians, only 1/1000 are Jews who believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, the rest because of their "obstinacy" and now consider him hereticalthough they are 2000 years old, after his crucifixion of their ancestors, were in exile and scattering.
      "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, beating the prophets and stoning those who were sent to you! How many times have I wanted to gather your children, like a bird gathers its chicks under its wings, and you did not want to! Behold, your house is left to you." (Matthew 23: 37-38)
      1. +4
        4 June 2018 07: 12
        Quote from dsk
        believed that Jesus Christ is the Son of God,

        You know, at the beginning of 2000, a Tiflis Armenian, Armen Borisovich Dzhigarkhanyan told such a parable:
        The gates of paradise. Saturday. The apostle Peter is standing at the gate. It’s about ten o’clock, well, lunch already ... Then Jesus comes out of paradise and says to Peter-Peter. Here I have a liter of ragweed, shall we go sit with you? Peter, you have to take a snack, let’s wait five minutes, it’s Saturday anyway, until the close of 5 minutes, there will be no one, but I will instantly. Well, Christ stood at the gate, time passed, he only covered the first collar, and here comes the peasant. Well, Jesus wondered what kind of deeds not rich people (judging by their clothes) go to heaven. Well, he asked a question:
        X. Man, why did you end up in PARADISE.
        M So the whole world knows my son!
        H. PAPA !!!!?
        M. BURATINO? !!!!!
        The truth is not verbatim ...
      2. 0
        5 July 2018 13: 16
        ... he is the son of God .. Mary could not be born - they did * a cesarean section * .. They were called * the son of God * .. In * Macbeth * Shakespeare there is an indirect confirmation .. The hero says * only * unborn can kill him a woman * .. And Maria - the Virgin - did not give birth, - she was eviscerated .. The casket always just opens ..
    2. +2
      4 June 2018 12: 50
      And, a little addition: Jews, finding themselves in Babylonian captivity / did not hold a candle, maybe earlier / most of Judaism was cut off from Zoroastrianism, having finalized a file in their spirit. They are supposed to try on names, surnames, religions, and arrange the fate of the tribe.
    3. +1
      4 June 2018 21: 09
      this is Zachary Sichin, in his book 12 planet

      And in his other books he gives evidence that the Bible says the same thing as in the decrypted tablets.
      1. +1
        5 June 2018 07: 32
        Quote: glory1974
        this is Zachary Sichin, in his book 12 planet

        And in his other books he gives evidence that the Bible says the same thing as in the decrypted tablets.

        So by the way, he was engaged in the study of these tablets.
        1. 0
          5 June 2018 19: 11
          So by the way, he was engaged in the study of these tablets.

          Well, I'm about the same. He studied, and to his surprise, found out that the tablets contain the same information as in the bible. Moreover, some information is written in more detail than in the bible.
    4. 0
      2 July 2018 14: 48
      Quote: Fitter65
      It turns out such a thing, a garden vegetable (with a long root and very sharp) knows it, it is not clear where it has been for more than 1000 years, again this vegetable, as it was stored here, is here from under the bed, a wonderful thing ... By the way, if you believe the researchers who they checked the plaza, the cloth on which the face was applied was made much later than the crucifixion of Christ ... But as Vladimir Semenovich sang, Who believes in Mohammed, who in Allah, who in Jesus, who does not believe anyone ...

      In fact, the history of the Shroud of Turin is well known, you do not need to weave any false snares. After the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, she was kept with His closest associates. Later, in the 2-3 centuries. hr - among the direct heirs of the Apostles, preserved as the greatest shrine in deep secrecy (since there was persecution of Christians from both the Jews and the Romans). After the 312 year, when Christians received civil rights and the opportunity to freely exercise their faith, the shrine "went out of the underground" and was placed in the most prominent church buildings in Palestine, Syria and Asia Minor. Then the Shroud of Turin was transported to Constantinople, the new, Christian capital of New Rome, where it was, surrounded by 800 honor, and where it was seen by numerous travelers and pilgrims whose writings have come down to us. After the capture of Constantinople by the Venetians and their mercenaries in 1203, the shrine was stolen from the cathedral and transported to Western Europe, and ended up in the possession of the Dukes of Savoy. Everything is clear and simple, what is unclear?
      1. 0
        8 July 2018 07: 12
        ... clever - I won’t save .. Christ = Bogolyubsky was crucified in 1185 .. but you, dear, sew 2-3 centuries *, don’t you feel the chura? ..
        1. 0
          19 October 2021 13: 56
          Approximately coincides with the data of radiocarbon analysis from 1260 to 1390, given the inaccuracy of the method.
    5. 0
      29 July 2018 07: 50
      ... monasteries were centers of science, various weapons, poisons, metal and material processing technologies were studied and invented there, chemistry was developed. It’s top of idiocy to believe that a wild arat, or a simple shepherd, makes blades of Damascus steel or glued bows, or crossbows while grazing cattle ... It was in the monasteries that all the threads of life converged, all * papers * were written there .. At the expense of the Indian Torah, I I would be silent .. Everything has one point .. The Jews created this point in order to be * exceptional * .. Jesus is a JEWISH .. and the soul rushed to paradise .. Jews are an exceptional nation .. Ah - you are an exceptional nation, well, get it .. .
  4. +5
    4 June 2018 06: 02
    The best artwork on this subject, "St. Jorgen's Holiday" is all very intelligibly filmed
  5. +2
    4 June 2018 07: 09
    An interesting selection.

    But Faith with evidence that some people bring for other people is not necessary to mix.
    1. +6
      4 June 2018 07: 35
      Quote from Korsar4
      But Faith with evidence that some people bring for other people is not necessary to mix.

      Correctly! Faith does not require evidence. True water case. If Vera is a beloved wife.
    2. +6
      4 June 2018 08: 36
      Funnily different in the Holy Scriptures, it is not mentioned in one place that God does not require "evidence" and true faith implies the rejection of all kinds of religious images of God and special places where rituals can be sent to him ... but humanity has created a "church" and cult objects, fell into sin, and even insists on this sin ...
  6. +3
    4 June 2018 08: 40
    These are the myths that feed the representatives of all religions and time immemorial, without exception. As the classics said: "... opium for the people."
  7. +5
    4 June 2018 08: 56
    The year of the appearance of the artifact, 1353, the end of the plague pandemic, is noteworthy. It’s about time that some shrine appears in order to correct the fairly shaken faith.
    1. 0
      1 July 2018 21: 52
      Quote: 3x3zsave
      The year of the appearance of the artifact, 1353, the end of the plague pandemic, is noteworthy. It’s about time that some shrine appears in order to correct the fairly shaken faith.

      Dear, well, you should at least read something about the studies of the Shroud of Turin except for fake nonsense and atheist opuses. For example, in the image preserved on the Shroud, in the eyes of the Son of Man, "Pilate's mite" is found - a very rare coin with specific details. which was in circulation for a very short historical period and was released in an extremely small print run (for a long time, even modern scholars did not know anything, so how could an alleged 14 century artist know about it?).

      Next - look about the analysis of the fibers of the material from which the Shroud is woven. This analysis showed that the material from which the Shroud of Turin was created was created in the Syro-Palestinian region during the heyday of the Roman Empire. That's it ...
      1. 0
        8 July 2018 07: 16
        ..lept Pilate - such a historical figure never existed, from a word in general .. Paradox - how could any judge sentence the Emperor .. to crucifixion - is there a brain? ..
        1. 0
          8 July 2018 10: 49
          Quote: ver_
          .lept Pilate - such a historical figure never existed, from a word in general .. Paradox - how could any judge sentence the Emperor .. to crucifixion - is there a brain ?.

          Dear, well, you at least slightly increase the level of your education in order to conduct a dialogue on issues in which you have little understanding. In general, the historicity of Pontius Pilate is more than reliably confirmed historically - in addition to Roman business documents that have preserved confirmation of his authority and his administration of the province of Judea.

          Moreover, back in the 1961 year, during the excavations of the Roman capital of Judea - Caesarea, even the initiatory "Stella Pilate" of the 1 floor was found. 1 c. h.r.e., direct material evidence of its existence:
          Translation of the inscription: "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, dedicated a temple in honor of Tiberius to the people of Caesarea".

          Normal scholars (even non-Christians) literally provide stone evidence, and you and other atheists and opponents of Christ have all the “fakes” and “no evidence” ...
    2. 0
      11 July 2018 09: 43
      ... what does faith have to do with, - grandmother tore off - holy face - protects from the plague ..
  8. +3
    4 June 2018 09: 00
    Pope Paul VI in 1978 called it "the most important relic of Christianity."
    a fake with a shroud is another drop in the mountain of evidence of the main fake - the execution of Christ, which was invented by cunning priests!
    1. +6
      4 June 2018 09: 32
      The execution of Christ may not be a fake, the Romans executed dozens of preachers and magicians after the suppression of the next uprising, but the main thing is that smart pupils or apostles developed the topic, did not let it stall, it didn’t rise badly and it’s not bad until now live!
      1. BAI
        +3
        4 June 2018 10: 43
        that smart pupils or apostles developed the topic, didn’t let it die out, they didn’t rise badly on this

        Of the 12 apostles, only 2 died their deaths (one in exile), the rest as martyrs (like being stoned, cut alive by a saw, etc. Well, Judas got off with a light death - he hanged himself). I would not say that the apostles rose on this.
        1. 0
          4 June 2018 12: 54
          What are 10 soldiers in the battle for the souls / crossed out / wallets of billions.
      2. +4
        4 June 2018 15: 38
        The execution of Christ became a notable event of that time.
        It is reported not only in the Jewish and Greek Christian early gospels,
        but also in the two early Talmuds of the Jews. The fact of execution came to the Talmuds because
        The death penalty was NOT a murder was a unique event in the Jewish judicial practice of the time. Jesus was executed according to a "political" article.
        1. 0
          4 June 2018 16: 45
          Besides jokes. Is this really the only precedent?
          1. +3
            4 June 2018 21: 58
            I can not say this, there is no information. But under the Criminal Code of the Sanhedrin of that time, it was possible to be sentenced to death only for premeditated murder with aggravating circumstances. Neither heresy, nor even complete atheism was "pulled" to the death penalty. Maximum for expulsion from the city, community, confiscation of property, etc.
            Therefore, the execution attracted the attention of the “scribes" and sparked discussion. Although Jesus was handed over to the Romans, it is clear that the Sanhedrin wanted the death penalty. Before this, King Herod, who ruled for 30 years, died. The time of troubles has come. There were at least two attempts at a coup and seizure of power by completely random people who were executed. And the vassal rulers of Judea were paranoid, cowardly, fearing any form of dissent. And Christ was “impressed” by the attempted coup d'etat (messiah = king = ruler of Judea). The Romans, too, were nervous and executed with ease, with a half-turn.
            1. +1
              5 June 2018 03: 21
              Very "muddy" story. Barab, one hundred percent "gallows" - was pardoned, the "hippies" of Jesus - were executed.
              1. +1
                5 June 2018 08: 01
                the article did not write what it was a study of the account, so that its negative results fit into its error
                1. VLR
                  +2
                  5 June 2018 11: 37
                  The X-NUMX Shroud Radio-Carbon Tissue was the first X-ray Radiocarbon study and the last. And the results of this study were officially recognized by Pope John Paul 1988. That is, the Shroud of Turin is an artifact created in 2-12. The historical and artistic value is huge, but alas, this relic has nothing to do with Christ.
                  1. 0
                    5 June 2018 15: 44
                    third or fourth, no less
                    this method was discovered in 1946
                    1. +2
                      5 June 2018 19: 36
                      Quote: YELLOWSTONE
                      third or fourth, no less this method was revealed in 1946

                      This, obviously, is about the study of the Shroud of Turin. This method was really investigated only once.
                2. +4
                  5 June 2018 19: 42
                  Quote: YELLOWSTONE
                  the article did not write what it was a study of the account, so that its negative results fit into its error

                  Sorry, but you are wrong. First, samples were provided to three laboratories and with three control samples. The result coincidence is a guarantee of its accuracy. As for the accuracy of the radioisotope method, it depends more on the age of the sample than on the number of measurements. In the case of a too ancient artifact, the accuracy of the determination is low (too little of the radioisotope), in the case of a very young one, too (too small a ratio of conventional and radiocarbon). For samples from 500 to 25000 years is quite suitable.
            2. 0
              4 July 2018 06: 58
              ... There was no Rome then and there was no Roman Empire .. Rome was founded by 2 brothers Rem and Romulus (if my sclerosis does not change me) .. These are brothers, the sons of Vsevolod .. -Ivan Kalita and Yuri Dolgoruky, and this is the 13th century ..
        2. 0
          5 June 2018 13: 35
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Jesus was executed according to a "political" article.

          Shaw belay and his Beria with Stalin feel laughing
          1. +2
            5 June 2018 15: 06
            Right...
            Stalin did not come up with a "wave of terror."
            This reliable patent comes from the time of the pharaohs and through the middle
            century to our time.
            Meaning: “Thin out” or change the elite (and intimidate the rest) in order to gain power.
            And to sew political affairs about conspiracies on all kinds of "strange personalities",
            to neutralize them.
          2. 0
            4 July 2018 07: 04
            ... that neither - his woman with the brothers ..- the queen is handy to be free .., well, as Catherine - not for nothing the Great - all * male virtues * within reach, experienced .., yes, crazy ..
  9. +1
    4 June 2018 12: 49
    If someone is really interested, then on a professional level
    Valery SOYFER
    Shroud of Turin and modern science
    http://magazines.russ.ru/continent/2003/117/s22.h
    tml
  10. +5
    4 June 2018 15: 32
    Not a fake. The artifact is interesting, but of the 13-14th century.
    Middle Ages, Crusades.
    1. 0
      19 October 2021 14: 02
      More accurate and methods speak of the 12th century. Only with the location of ancient Jerusalem, discrepancies arose, but the topic is too painful to discuss it on the go, without preparation and consequences.
  11. 0
    4 June 2018 16: 45
    ... the faithful Jews could not touch the ritual clothes of the deceased ...

    Where does this statement come from? Apparently, according to the author of the article, there are some NOT devout Jews (in the image and likeness of some Indian castes?) who are still involved in the funeral? Perhaps the Jews invite the Gentiles to bury their departed? I am well acquainted with the customs, rules and laws of burial according to Jewish custom. I have not seen anything like it there.
  12. +1
    7 June 2018 19: 35
    But if you take into account the alternative history of Fomenko, then everything falls into place ... It is amazing how fantastic the conclusions of Fomenko, but you can not discount the accounts for so many surprising coincidences.
  13. +3
    9 June 2018 20: 59
    There are 4 heads of John the Baptist in the world. But only 2 of them are real.
    1. +1
      9 June 2018 22: 30
      Was he, like, a mutant? About two heads? Or "real" - in the sense of human?
  14. +2
    15 June 2018 04: 22
    "When Rumata passed the grave of St. Mika - the seventh and the last on this road .." (c) AiB Strugatsky
  15. kig
    0
    20 June 2018 13: 20
    Entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity. There are two mutually exclusive possibilities: either Jesus is really depicted there, but then the fabric cannot be made in the 12th century, or the cloak is really from the 12th century - but then there is someone else. In my opinion, the solution is very simple: you need to combine these two possibilities. Some researcher, or just an enthusiast from the future, with the help of an ordinary time machine, first visited the 12th century, where he grabbed a piece of matter, and then century 00, where he received the image of the Savior. That's all.
    1. 0
      20 June 2018 21: 11
      Occam's razor - a very useful thing!
    2. 0
      19 October 2021 14: 07
      The answer has long been given, but they just don't want to hear about it, too many don't want to. The shroud is real and faithfully dated to the 12th century. The question is in the correctness of dating the time of Christ's life, and so long ago everything has been researched and proven.
  16. 0
    20 June 2018 21: 09
    a person who was once wrapped in this veil, there was a pigtail on the back of his head, which was a complete surprise for historians: after all, there are no pigtails on any known image of Christ
    And what are the lifetime images of Christ? Or are historians with grass / mushrooms too smart?
    1. 0
      1 July 2018 21: 57
      Quote: sxfRipper
      And what are the lifetime images of Christ?

      Well, read about the Plates of Veronica and the Eden Image. This is so offhand. Yes, this proves once again the presence of the created nature in the physical body of Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of ours.
  17. 0
    2 July 2018 02: 29
    Quote: andrewkor
    These are the myths that feed the representatives of all religions and time immemorial, without exception. As the classics said: "... opium for the people."

    ... all the drawings, scriptures, including * saints * are the work of far from holy people .., and often outright sinners, for this was done with the aim of enrichment .. An example is indulgence ... Forgiveness by the Church of Sin for money .. Paid the required amount and you can kill - no one will condemn you .., the court was subordinate to the holy Inquisition ..
  18. 0
    2 July 2018 06: 06
    Quote: andrewkor
    The execution of Christ may not be a fake, the Romans executed dozens of preachers and magicians after the suppression of the next uprising, but the main thing is that smart pupils or apostles developed the topic, did not let it stall, it didn’t rise badly and it’s not bad until now live!

    ... by the way - I read that the sword of Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky = Christ is stored in the storerooms of the Armory .. (the inscription is broken) ..
  19. 0
    3 July 2018 08: 25
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    Quote: sxfRipper
    And what are the lifetime images of Christ?

    Well, read about the Plates of Veronica and the Eden Image. This is so offhand. Yes, this proves once again the presence of the created nature in the physical body of Jesus Christ, the Lord and Savior of ours.

    ... and who doesn’t let the skull be restored? .. A grave with the bones of Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky exists ..
  20. 0
    5 July 2018 11: 17
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    Quote: Fitter65
    It turns out such a thing, a garden vegetable (with a long root and very sharp) knows it, it is not clear where it has been for more than 1000 years, again this vegetable, as it was stored here, is here from under the bed, a wonderful thing ... By the way, if you believe the researchers who they checked the plaza, the cloth on which the face was applied was made much later than the crucifixion of Christ ... But as Vladimir Semenovich sang, Who believes in Mohammed, who in Allah, who in Jesus, who does not believe anyone ...

    In fact, the history of the Shroud of Turin is well known, you do not need to weave any false snares. After the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, she was kept with His closest associates. Later, in the 2-3 centuries. hr - among the direct heirs of the Apostles, preserved as the greatest shrine in deep secrecy (since there was persecution of Christians from both the Jews and the Romans). After the 312 year, when Christians received civil rights and the opportunity to freely exercise their faith, the shrine "went out of the underground" and was placed in the most prominent church buildings in Palestine, Syria and Asia Minor. Then the Shroud of Turin was transported to Constantinople, the new, Christian capital of New Rome, where it was, surrounded by 800 honor, and where it was seen by numerous travelers and pilgrims whose writings have come down to us. After the capture of Constantinople by the Venetians and their mercenaries in 1203, the shrine was stolen from the cathedral and transported to Western Europe, and ended up in the possession of the Dukes of Savoy. Everything is clear and simple, what is unclear?

    ..Constantinople was founded after the 138th year (the Battle of Kulikovo) by Dmitry Donskoy = Constantine the Great ... In the 15th century, as a result of the split of the Church, part of the army of Russia led by Prince of Tver - Moses - crossed the Volga, founded the Kingdom of Kazan and went to Constantinople establishing the Ataman Empire , subsequently, as a result of the rebellion of the Mamluks (hired army), who cut the leadership of this empire, they received the Ottoman Empire in fact .. the Ottomans - * feral * Russians .., and the Muslim faith - modified paganism (apostolic Christianity) without Christ, the god of copper, but with a holy grove (the walls are painted with patterns representing this very grove ..) ... This is the result of * the baptism of Russia * in the 15th century ...
  21. 0
    11 July 2018 06: 33
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    Quote: ver_
    .lept Pilate - such a historical figure never existed, from a word in general .. Paradox - how could any judge sentence the Emperor .. to crucifixion - is there a brain ?.

    Dear, well, you at least slightly increase the level of your education in order to conduct a dialogue on issues in which you have little understanding. In general, the historicity of Pontius Pilate is more than reliably confirmed historically - in addition to Roman business documents that have preserved confirmation of his authority and his administration of the province of Judea.

    Moreover, back in the 1961 year, during the excavations of the Roman capital of Judea - Caesarea, even the initiatory "Stella Pilate" of the 1 floor was found. 1 c. h.r.e., direct material evidence of its existence:
    Translation of the inscription: "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, dedicated a temple in honor of Tiberius to the people of Caesarea".

    Normal scholars (even non-Christians) literally provide stone evidence, and you and other atheists and opponents of Christ have all the “fakes” and “no evidence” ...

    ... for the gifted: Jesus Christ - Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky was crucified in 1185 on the Bosphorus by his relatives - betrayal and treason in the blood * of ancient ukrov * - his sovereign and then * soaked * .... Which led to the Crusades. .for * the tomb of the Lord * - The Throne of the Emperor .. Less, dear, get carried away by the tales of the ancient world ..
  22. 0
    11 July 2018 07: 24
    Quote: Mikhail Matyugin
    Quote: ver_
    .lept Pilate - such a historical figure never existed, from a word in general .. Paradox - how could any judge sentence the Emperor .. to crucifixion - is there a brain ?.

    Dear, well, you at least slightly increase the level of your education in order to conduct a dialogue on issues in which you have little understanding. In general, the historicity of Pontius Pilate is more than reliably confirmed historically - in addition to Roman business documents that have preserved confirmation of his authority and his administration of the province of Judea.

    Moreover, back in the 1961 year, during the excavations of the Roman capital of Judea - Caesarea, even the initiatory "Stella Pilate" of the 1 floor was found. 1 c. h.r.e., direct material evidence of its existence:
    Translation of the inscription: "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea, dedicated a temple in honor of Tiberius to the people of Caesarea".

    Normal scholars (even non-Christians) literally provide stone evidence, and you and other atheists and opponents of Christ have all the “fakes” and “no evidence” ...

    ... they haven’t tried to be checked by doctors? .. There are different ones ..., there is one that checks mental health ..
    1. 0
      11 July 2018 07: 26
      ... a lot of things have been written on the fences, have you looked at the fence? ..- so there from what is written = not a damn thing ..
  23. 0
    11 July 2018 09: 51
    Quote: BAI
    that smart pupils or apostles developed the topic, didn’t let it die out, they didn’t rise badly on this

    Of the 12 apostles, only 2 died their deaths (one in exile), the rest as martyrs (like being stoned, cut alive by a saw, etc. Well, Judas got off with a light death - he hanged himself). I would not say that the apostles rose on this.

    ... the apostles of Christ = Prince of Bogolyubsky - there are courtiers .., the disciple of Vanya - the future Khan John Rurik Varyag the Troyan .., he will be invited to rule princes in Russia .. after the fall of Troy .. - Crusades ..
  24. 0
    13 July 2018 13: 28
    Quote: Shurale
    "...

    ... half-breed (his words) - Solovyov believes that the Academician of Physical and Mathematical Sciences Fomenko - ..
    1. 0
      13 July 2018 13: 32
      ..adding - the moderator did not miss - instead of the word put two dots - ..
      1. The comment was deleted.
  25. 0
    29 July 2018 08: 02
    Quote: Shurale
    But if you take into account the alternative history of Fomenko, then everything falls into place ... It is amazing how fantastic the conclusions of Fomenko, but you can not discount the accounts for so many surprising coincidences.

    ..and from what hangover are Fomenko’s conclusions fantastic? He found the year of Christ's birth - 1152 .., and not from the lantern, but according to science - astronomy .. - Stars are not people - they don't lie ..