Military Review

25-I rifle under the Ural. Part of 4. Natural finale

69
Until January 23, the 217 th rifle and 25 th cavalry regiments were standing still - as the 218 th regiment, due to the deep snow only by the evening of January 19, approached the Hut. Frontier. Cossack detachments defended Rubezhniy from the north, and cavalry regiments were on the flank. Despite the well-aimed artillery and machine-gun fire, the chains of the Razinsky regiment continued to move. Ural Cossack regiments from the south-west hit Rubezhniy at Ovchinnikov. A battery of razintsy repelled the attack of the Cossacks. After a large number of shots, with a significant rate of fire, 3 guns deteriorated.


As a result, the regiment commander Mikhailov stopped the attacks at Rubezhnoye and began to retreat to Ovchinnikov (8 km north of Rubezhnoye). Cossack cavalry stubbornly pursued him.

At about 10, the regiment reached Ovchinnikov, where he took a ring defensive position and spent the night. Cossacks all night long were pressing on all sides. But when it began to get light, the cavalry of the enemy began to gradually withdraw to Rubezhniy. Razintsy moved behind it and approached the 8 distance to the 1000 clock. M. Mikhailov passed the command “in hostility” along the chain. Razintsy, who had not eaten hot food for two days and had not slept, cheerfully accepted the team and ran to the attack. But under the well-aimed fire of the enemy, the razintsy had to lie down and from all 30 machine guns opened fire. When the fire of the Cossacks weakened, foot intelligence on its own initiative rushed into hostility. Behind her rose the whole chain of the regiment. Shouts of “Hurray”, moans of the wounded, indiscriminate shooting from both sides did not allow the commanders of the companies to control the movement of people. Groups of attackers broke into the trenches of the Cossacks. The enemy slowly retreated to the village.

The cavalry more than once rushed from the east to attack - but deep snow prevented the equestrian step, and the red machine-gunners calmly fought off the attacks. The battle in the village lasted until 12 hours. As a result, the Cossacks with large losses went to Uralsk. The losses of the Razinsky regiment during these two days are about 200 people killed, wounded and frostbite.

On January 21, Mikhailov, highlighting one battalion and foot reconnaissance under the command of his assistant Petrovsky, sent this detachment to occupy the village of Dyakov.

At about 14, the detachment occupied the village and settled there for the night. On January 10, Mikhailov, leaving two equestrian reconnaissance and one battalion in Rubezhnoye, with the second battalion, moved to Diacov, and the commander of the forward detachment, Petrovsky, in the evening with the battle, took Darinsky.

At this time, the advanced detachment of Ryazantsev arrived, sent to 21 on January 9th to help the 218 th Razinsky regiment. He also spent the night in Darya.

On January 23, the commander of the 1 Brigade ordered the capture of the Urals.

Time and. The commander of the 217 regiment, Panitsky, with two battalions, a team of foot reconnaissance men and four guns, had to come out of Chuvash in 5 hours and occupy Novy.

The commander of the 25 Cavalry Regiment, Surov, was ordered to simultaneously depart from the Chuvash Regiment along with the 217 Regiment and take the New One together with him.

The 218 th regiment was to occupy Trekinsky, leaving the 2 companies with 6 machine guns at Rubezhnoye until the point was taken up. At about 9 hours, the 217 th rifle regiment and the 25 th cavalry regiment approached the village of Novy. Opponent opened artillery fire. The chain of the 217 regiment moved forward briskly, as it heard heavy artillery fire from the left in the Trekinsky area. It was with the battle that the 218 th regiment advanced - from Daryinsky through Gnilovsky to Trekinsky. The chain of Pugachevs, spoiled by victories in December-January, did not pay attention to the heavy machine-gun fire of the Cossacks and went forward almost without any excesses. When approaching the 300 - 500 distance, the Cossack infantry began to move in groups to the south, to Uralsk. Around 11 hours Pugachev occupied New. The 25 Cavalry Regiment tried to pursue, but with the fire of the Cossacks its movement was stopped and he returned. After a hard fight at the hut. Gnilovsky was busy around 13-hours hut. Trekinsky. Large forces of the Cossacks quickly moved in the direction of Uralsk. Losses in the shelves of the 1 Brigade - about 70 people, the enemy - are unknown. After the occupation of these farms, before the command of the 1 brigade, the question arose: do you want to take Uralsk, according to the order of the commander, on January 25 or to take it on 24? At that time, an order was received from the commander of the 1 Brigade of the 22 Division, where it was said that the brigade had occupied the Kolpakov cordon, and on January 24 the Cordon of the Derkulsky and Women's Skit should occupy. This made the command of the 1 Brigade make a decision to attack Uralsk not on 25, but on the morning of January 24. At this time, arrived at the headquarters of the 1-th brigade nachdiv-25 Voskanov, who agreed with the capture of Uralsk 24-th January. The decision was also made by the fact that the Ural command was expecting an attack by Uralsk on January 25 — intercepting the order of the 4 army.


G. K. Voskanov

As a result, the Ural command removed from the site of the red 22 th rifle division, from the troops of General Akutin, 1 th, 2 th, 3 th and 4 th Ural Cossack regiments, which by the evening of 24 January were to connect with 5-m and 6-m Ural Cossack regiments in the area of ​​the meat factory "Refrigerator" (7 km north-east of Uralsk), forming a shock group. All the infantry, i.e., the Semenovskaya and Krasnorechenskaya brigades, the volunteer Cossack rifle brigades, consisting of old Cossacks, were to occupy two lines of trenches - in 2 - 3 km to the north of the railway station, and to defend Uralsk from the north, and 10 and 11-Ural Cossack regiments - from the side of the stingray. The 13, 16 and 8 Ural Cossack regiments were supposed to cover the right flank of the infantry, as well as the concentrating equestrian group (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6) Ural Cossack regiments). The Ural command entrusted the task to this horse group: to strike the 1 brigade in the left flank at the moment when the regiments, having occupied the trenches, were drawn into the city, press them to the r. Chagan and destroy.

The defense plan can be considered good - in particular, the creation of the best battle regiments from the Ural Cossack "guard", the shock cavalry group. But the Urals command did not take into account, firstly, deep snow, as a result of which the 1, 2, 3 and 4 regiments did not arrive in Uralsk on January 24, and second, the 1 25 brigade th division attacked Uralsk not on January 25, but early on January 24 in the morning.

Thus, a coherent cossack plan was destroyed. At the headquarters of the 1 Brigade of the 25 Division, the whole evening was spent in meetings and disputes over the development of an attack plan for Uralsk. By the 23-m clock, the plan was developed and sent out in parts. It came down to the following:

1) All parts are from New and Trekinsky exactly at 6 on January 24 on Uralsk.
2) The 217 th regiment advances on Uralsk with two battalions from the north, and one battalion located in Trekinsky, along the route, from the north-east.
3) The 25 th cavalry regiment moves in conjunction with the 217 regiment and covers its right flank.
4) The 218 regiment with attached XMNUMX regiment mounted reconnaissance stands out from Trekinsky, moves along the Ural River and attacks Uralsk from the east,
5) The 1 Brigade of the 22 Division, consisting of the 190 and 191 Rifle Regiments and the 22 Garybaldian Cavalry Regiment, stands out from the Kolpakov cordon and the Hut. Breeze.

Thus, the plan of command of the 1 Brigade of the 25 Rifle Division provided for an attack by the 218 regiment in the “Refrigerator” area - which operates from the east with its right flank.

In 6 hours 30 minutes 24 January, all parts of the brigade acted.

In the space between the rivers Ural and Chagan there were many Cossack patrols - who, noticing the movement of the Pugachevsky regiment, opened rifle and machine-gun fire. And the 217-th regiment had to crumble straight from the column into a chain - and advance in deep snow with a fight to the south, to Uralsk.

The 218 th Razinsky regiment also performed 6 minutes from Trekinsky 30 hours south to the south, and sent a foot reconnaissance and one battalion commanded by Petrovsky from the east to the Refrigerator plant on the Ural River. The regiment commander Mikhailov himself with the remaining two battalions and two cavalry reconnaissance groups moved even south of the Petrovsky detachment - directly from the east to Uralsk. For the same reasons as Pugachevsky, the Razinsky regiment had to turn around in a chain and move south along the r. Ural, and then turn its left flank to the west, leading two cavalry recon groups (near 200 Sabers) with a ledge behind the left flank.

25-I rifle under the Ural. Part of 4. Natural finale

Cultural education of 25 sd in 1919

Despite the deep snow, the Pugachev regiment advanced very quickly. In the chain as ordinary soldiers went with rifles in the hands of the chief of the 25 th Infantry Division Voskanov, the commissioner of the brigade Gorbachev and BP. and. D. Kombriga-1 Plyasunkov. Their example was followed by the entire command personnel of the Pugachev regiment. The chain of the Pugachevsky regiment was in 800-m from the first line of the Cossack trenches, who fired strong rifle-and-machine-gun and artillery fire. Almost every minute wounded and killed fell.

Starting-25 Voskanov, seeing that there was no wire in front of the enemy’s trenches (which he was greatly afraid of), gave the command: “Follow me, to attack the trenches”. At this time, the commander of the 1-th artillery battalion Sorokin suffered accurate fire from Cossack armored trains at the trenches. In some places, Pugachevs could see how shells ripped apart enemy fighters. This is even more encouraging Pugachev. When the fighters saw Voskanov himself, running ahead with a rifle at the ready and screaming “Hurray!”, They rushed forward.

Plyasunkov with the commissioner of the brigade Gorbachev, being on the left flank of these two battalions, with a handful of orderlies, in horse formation, rushed to the attack. In the eyes of the regiment, they slipped through the first line of trenches, hacking down the Cossack infantry, mainly old bearded men. They flew at the enemy's battery, which was located between two lines of trenches, with some of the guns already withdrawn and galloping off the second line. Plyasunkov and Gorbachev managed to seize one gun and open fire from it. In some places the Cossacks took a bayonet battle, but most ran to the second line of the trenches. Voskanov was wounded in the arm and was out of action.

Time and. The commander of the regiment Panitsky, being close to the chief, gave the command: “Forward, attack the second line of trenches,” and rushed forward with a rifle in his hands. Behind him moved foot intelligence. Behind the pedestrian reconnaissance, the entire infantry continued moving, albeit in an “indescribable” order. There were shouts of wounded Cossacks, who were punctured by the rear red fighters with bayonets - especially the old bearded men, as the latter did not surrender and, even the wounded, continued firing at the rear of the Pugachev people.

During the seizure of the second line of the trenches, he was mortally wounded by a bullet in the stomach. and. D. commander of the regiment Panitsky. Around 10 hours Pugachev on the shoulders of the running occupied the station Uralsk. At the same time, the 25 th Cavalry Regiment of Surov went along the valley of the Chagan River and broke into the city. The chain of the Pugachev regiment continued to move forward.

At about 12 hours, two battalions of the Pugachev regiment were in the city, where indiscriminate shooting took place. Red artillery changed positions.

The battalion of Ryazantsev was delayed to master the two armored trains of the Cossacks. At this time, instead of fighting the 5 Razinsky regiment, the 218 th Ural regiment rushed from the Kholodilnik plant to attack the left flank of the Pugachev regiment - in the direction of the Novy settlement. But the Pugachev flank was at st. Uralsk - and the blow fell on different wagons and Sorokin 6 guns, which at that time were moving to the railway station.

Sorokin withdrew from the front and opened fire "on the canister."

The battalion commander Ryazantsev, having taken command of the Pugachev regiment, urged his chain to turn the front north. Having done this, he immediately rushed with the battalion to the rescue of his artillery. But the 1 convoy, which saw the attack, flew in panic into the city of Uralsk and reported on the attack of the Cossacks to the Pugachevs who were in the city. There was some confusion, but time. and. The commander of the Plyasunkov brigade, who was in these two battalions, gave the command: "Back to the station."

By this time, Sorokin and BP. and. D. regiment commander Ryazantsev managed to repel White's attack. As a matter of fact, there was nothing to repel, since the 5-th Ural regiment went on the attack not on manpower, but on a wagon train - and when it left the sphere of artillery fire, it galloped south of the settlement Novy, on the right bank of the r. Chagan, and there dissipated.

At this time, the 218 regiment was engaged in a stubborn battle on the eastern outskirts of Uralsk, especially in the area of ​​the Kholodilnik plant — with the 5, 6 and 13 regiments. Several times a detachment of the 218 regiment of Petrovsky rushed to the attack at the Kholodilnik plant, but the Cossack counterattack was thrown back. Around 11 hours, seeing his helplessness, he went on the defensive and asked his regiment commander Mikhailov to assist.

At the same time, Mikhailov with two battalions successfully, but also with a stubborn battle, moved forward, crowding the 16, 8 and Semenovsky Cossack regiments. Some of his companies have already reached the eastern outskirts of Uralsk - however, due to the critical position of their detachment at the Kholodilnik plant, one battalion was sent to strike from the south to the rear of the Cossacks, who stubbornly held on the Kholodilnik plant.

It was then that the commander of the 5-Ural regiment, seeing this movement, took off his regiment and went on the attack allegedly in the flank and rear of the Pugachev people. In fact, he simply left, as his section was left flank. The 6 and 13 regiments began to retreat into the city.

At about 14 hours, the whole city passed into the hands of the 1 th brigade of the 25 th rifle division. From the eastern and southern sides were posted outposts. By 16-ti hours began to enter the city regiments 1-th brigade 22-th rifle division. The Cossacks part of their forces retreated to Kruglozerny, and partly to the village of Barbastau. Losses in parts of the brigade of the 25 division in the official report are mentioned by a common phrase - at least 200 people were killed and wounded. On the enemy side, the losses were huge; taken to 100 prisoners and many machine guns.

Summing up the operation, it should be noted that the horse Cossack regiments, exhausted by the twelve-day battles, could not, despite their numerical superiority, keep Uralsk - because deep snow prevented them from maneuvering on the battlefield and, in particular, leading attacks in the equestrian system ( and they were not sufficiently prepared for foot combat).

The snow and heavy winter roads prevented the Urals command from transferring their best regiments in time to the moment of a decisive battle near Uralsk. More importantly, it was delayed with the transfer of these four regiments, relying on the orders of the 4 Army, according to which the capture of Uralsk was scheduled for January 25. But the command of the 25 Infantry Division took the initiative - and this confused the maps of the White Guard Cossack Command.

Author:
Articles from this series:
25-I rifle under the Ural. Part of 1. Battle for Stone
25-I rifle under the Ural. Part of 2. Fight near Chagansky and Red
25-I rifle under the Ural. Part of 3. Warm and Mustache
69 comments
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  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich 5 June 2018 06: 56
    +9
    G. K. Voskanov

    He received a bullet from the "comrades in the struggle" in 1937.
    And good.
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 08: 14
      +15
      Quote: Olgovich

      He received a bullet from the "comrades in the struggle" in 1937.

      A brave warrior, and a competent officer, are often quite combined with some kind of flaws, especially manifested in peaceful life (as an example - Grachev, Gromov. Or even the same Zhukov). For example, illegibility in communications.
      He beat evil spirits - well done. Entangled with bad people, engaged in counter-revolutionary activities - was punished.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 5 June 2018 10: 08
        +7
        Quote: rkkasa 81
        A brave warrior, and a competent officer, are often quite combined with some kind of flaws, especially manifested in peaceful life (as an example - Grachev, Gromov. Or even the same Zhukov). For instance, illegibility in communications.
        He beat evil spirits - well done. Confused with bad people, engaged in counter-revolutionary activities - was punished.

        WHERE else so many "executed traitors and people inconsistentx in connections? belay request
        Nowhere.
        An interesting social organization is like a magnet that attracted and gathered in such a quantity exactly such. Yes
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 12: 08
          +8
          Quote: Olgovich
          WHERE there were still so many "executed traitors and people who were unshaken in their connections?
          Nowhere.
          An interesting public organization, like a magnet, attracted and gathered in such numbers just such.

          Mr. fool It’s not a social organization, but a drastic change. A side effect of these changes is a significant number of random people who have clung to the new power of careerists who have climbed to high posts. Or, those who could not resist some temptations, or indiscriminate ones who made these dubious connections, etc. And while others (for example, see the current regime) - do not really fight with thieves and traitors, then the Bolsheviks, their honor and praise - fought very actively. Despite the past merits of the heroes.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 5 June 2018 14: 29
            +5
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            it’s not a social organization, but a drastic change. A side effect of these changes, is a significant number of random people clinging to the new power of careeristscrawled to high posts

            So I about it: flocked fly on lol honey. Yes Something attracted them and someone accepted them, most importantly, accepted ..
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Or those who could not resist any temptations, or illegiblewho have established these dubious ties, etc. And while others (for example, see the current regime) - do not really fight with thieves and traitors, then the Bolsheviks, their honor and praise - fought very actively. Despite past merits heroes.

            So heroes or illegible, you already decide lol
            By the way, YOUR “heroes” were charged with practically all years of spying for the benefit of all the world's intelligence services (Cork, Uborevich, Yakir, etc.). And what do you call "illegible connections"?
            Yes you yourself ... a spy, it seems fool
            By the way, the names of these "bandits and spies" ... are streets and cities. belay
            You-nothing wedges, no? lol
            1. rkkasa xnumx
              rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 14: 38
              +6
              Quote: Olgovich
              By the way, YOUR "heroes" were charged with almost all years of spying

              Mr. yap, this is - yours, almost to everyone - and then pathetic 3 surnames, somehow sparse lol
              Quote: Olgovich
              flies flocked to

              I know you are fool , a specialist in this wink
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 5 June 2018 15: 00
                +2
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Mr. yap, this is yours, practically to everyone - and then pathetic 3 surnames, somehow thin

                belay THREE?! fool A "pr".? lol
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                flies flocked to
                I know that you are a specialist in this

                According to your party? No, it's you, somehow, yourself, without me. No.
                I disdain ...negative
                1. Reptiloid
                  Reptiloid 7 June 2018 04: 15
                  +5
                  Quote: Olgovich
                  I am . No. I disdain ...negative

                  Olgovich! After a long break, you again said a word from the vocabulary of old women over 80? Very strange? You thought I won’t recognize?
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 7 June 2018 07: 39
                    0
                    Quote: Reptiloid
                    Olgovich! After a long break, you again said a word from the vocabulary of old women over 80? Highly strangely? You thought, i won't recognizeYu?

                    IN RUSSIAN express your thought, Reptiloid! Yes
                    1. your1970
                      your1970 30 August 2018 14: 00
                      0
                      there are nuances in everything - there were practically no trenches on both sides in the steppe, despite the fire of 30 machine guns on the infantry on a steppe-level loss as miserable (within 10-15 killed), no one went to bayonet-this is generally a bike. ..
                      They ran from each other across the steppe at the slightest hint of resistance is a fact, no one wanted to die
                      Z.Y. I live in these places
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 5 June 2018 13: 24
          +10
          Quote: Olgovich
          WHERE there were still so many "executed traitors and people who were unshaken in their connections?

          In France, of course - during the same revolution. ICH, it ended in about the same way - only in France did the consul decide to officially become emperor, and with us he remained secretary general.
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 5 June 2018 14: 31
            +2
            Quote: Alexey RA
            In France, of course - during the same revolution. ICH, it ended in about the same way - only in France did the consul decide to officially become emperor, and with us he remained secretary general.

            In France, SUCH in sight hi
            1. Dashing
              Dashing 5 June 2018 20: 13
              +8
              Quote: Olgovich
              In France, SUCH in sight

              You are not quite right. One rebellion in the Vendee, which lasted about three years (1893-1895), claimed more than 200 thousand lives. Judicial and judicial executions, mass executions, the famous creation of the master Guillotin, etc. So what was “like” in France, and moreover.
              1. Olgovich
                Olgovich 6 June 2018 09: 05
                +1
                Quote: DARK
                You are not quite right. One rebellion in the Vendee, which lasted about three years (1893-1895), claimed more than 200 thousand lives. Judicial and judicial executions, mass executions, the famous creation of the master Guillotin, etc. So what was “like” in France, and moreover.

                Did not have and mention in France of what we discussed above: countless "spies" of all the intelligence services of the world, "terrorists", "decomposers" in the highest echelons of power, recognized as such by the same power.
                And Grazhd.voyny described by you, were often and everywhere.
                But this is a completely different story ....
                1. Dashing
                  Dashing 6 June 2018 12: 15
                  +7
                  Excuse me, but a series of executions of "spies" and "decomposers" in the higher echelons of power, succeeding each other: Louis 16th with children and households, tens of thousands of noblemen and royalists suspected of treason, a terrible era of Terror, successively beheaded "enemies of the people "Eber, Dumoulin, Danton, Robespierre, Saint-Just and other" comrades "of smaller caliber. “Give me forty thousand heads of aristocrats and I will save the revolution!” - Jean-Paul Marat. Well, at least this one fell from the dagger of an aristocrat, but the guillotine, guided by the hands of former associates, waved along the rest of the "leaders".
                  1. Olgovich
                    Olgovich 6 June 2018 13: 06
                    0
                    Quote: DARK
                    Excuse me, but a series of executions of “spies” and “decomposers” in the higher echelons of power, replacing each other

                    Whose foreign spies and terrorists were recognized as Marat, Danton, Robespierre, etc.? belay
                    WHO in the USSR was a Dauphin, a Gironda, the Jacobins, Danton, Robespierre and the Thermidorians? belay
                    Why attract incompatible things to each other? request
                    1. Dashing
                      Dashing 6 June 2018 15: 51
                      +7
                      You raise questions directly, as the prosecutor of the Committee for Public Safety, or a sort of second Frinovsky. Do you like to "bring to clean water" those who disagree with your opinion?
                      So, Danton Georges Jacques. The trial of one of the founding fathers of the First French Republic was conducted from the very beginning in violation of all formalities. By decree of the convention, on the proposal of Saint-Just, the accused were outlawed before the court decision. Dantonists (Camille Demoulin, Hero de Séchelles, Fabre d'Eglantin and others) were accused of conspiracy to overthrow the national representation and the republic, relations with foreign counter-revolutionary organizations, etc. etc. They were convicted unprovenly and guillotined. What is not the process of Zinoviev-Kamenev and others like them.
                      Jacques-Rene Ebert was a well-known figure in the Great French Revolution, a prominent member of the Jacobin Club, one of the leaders of the Cordeliere Club and the Paris Commune. A zealous advocate of terror, and “plebeian” terror, directed against both feudal lords and buyers, merchants and speculators, who profit from the people. "The dictatorship of the lower classes! Death to the rich!" - his appeal was supported by the prosecutor Schomet, who destroyed thousands of people and the masses of rabid supporters. These two and several nearby "accomplices" were arrested over a non-existent conspiracy against the Convention, accused of conspiracy against the freedom of the French people and national representation, in ties with Austria and England and the royalist opposition, etc. etc. All of them were guillotined. What is not the processes of Bukharin, Yezhov, Berries. “Terror is nothing but quick, strict, unshakable justice; therefore, it is a manifestation of virtue, ...”, Maximilian Robespierre used to say juicyly. Arrested and guillotined five hours after the arrest, as a conspirator, an enemy of the revolution and a traitor to the Motherland, together with the “Archangel of the Revolution” Saint-Just, his younger brother and other “enemies of the people”. Just the processes of the "old Bolsheviks". And Marat was killed, like Kirov or Kotovsky outside the political field. So there are many comparable. And about the Dauphin, the Gironde and the Thermidorians, read the classics of Marxism-Leninism.
                      1. Olgovich
                        Olgovich 7 June 2018 07: 59
                        0
                        Quote: DARK
                        . Like "output to clean water " disagree with your opinion?

                        What you are: it is your right to remain unclean. hi
                        Quote: DARK
                        So, Danton Georges Jacques. The trial of one of the founding fathers of the First French Republic was conducted from the very beginning in violation of all formalities. By decree of the convention, on the proposal of Saint-Just, the accused were outlawed before the court decision. Dantonists (Camille Demoulin, Hero de Séchelles, Fabre d'Eglantin and others) were accused of conspiracy to overthrow the national representation and the republic, relations with foreign counter-revolutionary organizations, etc. etc. They were convicted unprovenly and guillotined. What is not the process of Zinoviev-Kamenev and others like them.

                        Comparison of an EGG is not worth it: it happened during the revolution (the same thing happened in the BOP everywhere).
                        And prominent Bolsheviks were shot through 20 years AFTER her.
                        You don’t catch the difference, yes .....
                        PS remember what happened 20 years after Fr. revolution in France ...
        3. ammunition
          ammunition 17 June 2018 22: 19
          +1
          Quote: Olgovich
          WHERE there were still so many "executed traitors and people who were unshaken in their connections?
          Nowhere.


          Almost the whole environment of Sovereign Nicholas -2 consisted of "not shot" traitors and people illegible in connections. sad
          Apparently .. the Bolsheviks so ruthlessly cleansed their surroundings .. remember February 17 th? ..
          ------------------
          PS
          Yeah .. Civil war 1918 - 1922's, it is not the Great Patriotic War. neither nor .. nor close ..
          Losses at a capture of the city of Uralsk - approximately 200 people killed and wounded.
          *******
          For comparison -
          The loss of the Germans during the capture of Smolensk made 145 000 people killed and wounded. (approximate figure) .. In 700 more times.
  2. Bouncer
    Bouncer 5 June 2018 07: 45
    +20
    “Having started-25, Voskanov gave the command:“ Behind me, an attack on the trenches. ”.... When the fighters saw the very beginner Voskanov running forward with a rifle at the ready and screaming“ cheers, ”they rushed forward.
    Plyasunkov, with the commissar of the brigade Gorbachev, being on the left flank of these two battalions, with a bunch of orderlies, in horseback, rushed to the attack. In front of the regiment, they slipped through the first line of trenches ....
    Voskanov was wounded in the arm and out of order.
    VR and. The commander of the regiment, Panitsky, being close to the commandant, gave the command: "Go ahead, attack the second line of trenches," and he rushed forward with a rifle in his hands. "
    What is not a kind of "general attack", only the period of GV
    It’s only a pity that such an exhaust of enthusiasm on both sides didn’t go to efficiency — probably the Masons, Germans, etc., the backstage forces of our revolutions — who planned that the Russian people would bleed themselves. After all, the smaller the people, the easier it is to get to our resources.
    By the way, this policy (divide and conquer) among the designers of revolutions of different colors and later on in the Soviet and post-Soviet space remained the same.
    It would be better if these "heroes" continued to chop the heads of the Germans and Austrians, you would see more sense would be - that 100 years ago, now)
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 08: 25
      +9
      Quote: Bouncer
      probably the Masons, Germans, etc., were also counting on this behind the scenes of the forces of our revolutions - who planned that the Russian people would bleed themselves. After all, the smaller the people, the easier it is to get to our resources.

      Just before the revolution, foreigners had very strong positions and influence in Russia. But after the revolution, their influence was reduced to zero.
      Quote: Bouncer
      This policy (divide and conquer) among the designers of revolutions of different colors and later on in the Soviet and post-Soviet space remained the same

      In the Soviet and post-Soviet space, there was not a single revolution. There were counter-revolutions (late 80s - early 90s), and coups (Ukraine 2014).
      Quote: Bouncer
      It would be better if these "heroes" continued to chop the heads of Germans and Austrians

      Red heroes fought with the Germans; but balya "heroes"on the contrary, they fought with the Reds, who were just fighting the invaders.
      1. Bouncer
        Bouncer 5 June 2018 08: 45
        +20
        In the Soviet and post-Soviet space, there was not a single revolution. There were counter-revolutions (late 80s - early 90s), and coups (Ukraine 2014).

        Yes of course.
        And our coups of 1991- and 1993? And the color revolutions in Ukraine, in Georgia and (as I understand it) in Armenia too? And any coup can be judged by signs for a "revolution." Example - February 1917 coup
        Red heroes fought with the Germans; but the big "heroes", on the contrary, fought with the Reds, who were fighting the invaders.

        The red “heroes” supplied the Germans with gold across the Brest Peace, and fled when they appeared (Dybenkov echelons right where they ended up in February 1918, and we celebrate the holiday).
        In the Second World War, a number of “heroes” fought along with the Germans (it is enough to recall the ROA), but the Volunteer Army, bending without shells, did not go on the path of agreement with the Germans (unlike Krasnov). And during WWII, many white officers fought with the Germans in the Red Army, the Allied forces and the Resistance Movement
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 11: 13
          +9
          Revolution - A radical and abrupt coup in socio-political relations, forcibly leading to a change in the social system. This is a radical, fundamental, profound, qualitative change, a leap in the development of society, coupled with an open gap with the previous state.
          The coup d'etat - a change of power in the state, carried out necessarily in violation of the current constitutional and legal norms, usually with the use of force to seize government control centers.
          In political history, the concept of “revolution” is applied to large-scale and lengthy processes, while the “revolution” is applied to the event of a change of power, the consequences of which are not necessarily revolutionary in scale.
          counterrevolution - The struggle of the overthrown exploiting classes against the revolution for the restoration of pre-revolutionary orders and their domination.


          In the USSR, in the late 80s - early 90s, there has been a qualitative change, a leap in the development of society? No. On the contrary - there was a return, restoration of pre-revolutionary orders. Therefore, there was not a revolution, but a counter-revolution.
          In Ukraine Has the power of the bourgeois oligarchs changed to something else? No. The alignment of forces - yes, has changed. But power remained in the hands of the bourgeoisie. Therefore, there was also no revolution, but simply a coup.
          Quote: Bouncer
          any coup can be judged to be a “revolution"

          Chevo ?! what lol
          1. Bouncer
            Bouncer 5 June 2018 12: 08
            +19
            February isn't revolution lol
            1. Bouncer
              Bouncer 5 June 2018 12: 28
              +18
              In doubtful terms
              Just as in the first impatience to take a telegraph and a phone, also figure it out yourself. I won’t treat the concussions, nor will I participate in a useless action - to argue the insane politician.
              1. rkkasa xnumx
                rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 12: 53
                +6
                Quote: Bouncer
                I won’t treat the concussions, nor will I participate in a useless action - to argue the insane politician

                Mr. shell-shocked hamlo, firstly: - in order to try to argue with an educated person, you need to have at least a minimum of knowledge about the subject of discussion. Which you do not have. Secondly: - before you climb into high matters, and use smart words, like - revolution, coup, etc. - you first find out what they mean. Then you will not look so stupid.
                Quote: Bouncer
                You can continue to answer yourself and correspond with yourself

                You didn’t notice that I answered you? ... A difficult case ... If you are not able to understand even such simple things, then alas, medicine is powerless request In general, you should be grateful to me for having condescended and spent among you the elimination of your terrifying illiteracy hi
            2. Bouncer
              Bouncer 5 June 2018 15: 18
              +19
              That February Revolution, then the Revolution. So with terms, the question is very interesting
              1. rkkasa xnumx
                rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 19: 55
                +1
                Quote: Bouncer
                February isn't revolution

                Quote: Bouncer
                In doubtful terms

                Quote: Bouncer
                That February Revolution, then the Revolution. So with terms, the question is very interesting

                Chatterbox, when you talk to yourself, don’t forget to change your nickname lol
                1. Bouncer
                  Bouncer 5 June 2018 21: 06
                  +17
                  What is another nickname? I did not speak with myself, but with you - albeit in vain.
                  This is information for you to think about.
                  The essence of which is that the mentioned action is called either the February Revolution or the February Revolution.
                  This is about the zero value of the above definitions of revolutions and coups))
        2. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 11: 14
          +6
          Quote: Bouncer
          run when they appear

          Well, in the first place - they still fought with the Germans (in contrast to the bedding-baudeltsy); and secondly, do you even have a rough idea of ​​the situation in Russia and its army towards the end of the war, why was peace vital?
          The "mirage" of crowded people.
          The 28 members of the State Duma and the State Council that were members of the Special Meeting to discuss and unify measures to defend the state considered it their duty to appeal to the supreme authority through the Chairman of the State Duma MV Rodzianko:

          YOUR IMPERIAL MAJESTY!
          <...> Indeed, SIR, here we are faced with another question, no less disturbing than the question of the further recruitment of the army, and, moreover, inextricably linked with it, which is increasingly felt in the country lack of labor in all [117] the most important branches of the people's labor, including the industries working to satisfy all the numerous and vast needs of the army. Recently, whatever the event aimed at expanding one or another branch of our industry working for the army has discussed the Special Meeting, it has invariably met with the same obstacle - no people.
          In the mines there are not enough people for coal mining, in blast furnaces - for the smelting of metal correspondingly increased demand for them. Poor people affects equally all rural life. The greatest difficulty in food business it is partly due to the fact that horse-drawn fishing is weakened - there is no one to bring bread to the station.
          In a word, the entire state mechanism and the entire national economy are experiencing a completely clear lack of people.

          The following measures were proposed:
          2 Gradual involvement of foreigners in military service. (It is true that they forgot to ask these same foreigners — do they want it? The uprising of 1916 clearly showed - they don’t want to. And there were all reasons for this, since the main mass of foreigners was completely alien, who only took it away and did not give anything in return) .
          5) Lean consumption of human material in battles, patiently waiting for a further increase in our technical means to inflict a final blow to the enemy. (And how? With the enemy, would they agree with him to wait until RI accumulates enough technical means?)
          December 1916. Letter of the Minister of War General Shuvaev Headquarters VGK Gurko:
          I have repeatedly drawn the attention of the Chief of Staff of the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, General Alekseev, both in personal conversations and in written communications with him, to the forthcoming in the near future the use of the remaining uncalled contingents of military service <...> to replenish losses in the army, the headquarters of the Supreme Commander recognizes necessary expulsion monthly on average 300 people, we can say that the contingents at the disposal of the Ministry of War are enough to continue the war only for 6–9 months».
          September 1917. Minister of War AP Verkhovsky:
          it is beyond our strength to wage a war on the scale in which it was fought until recently <...> More than 15 workers were taken from the population, the country is in complete ruin in all sectors of economic life, further tension of the state's forces seems unthinkable. <...> necessary make an energetic decision - cut army.

          Warriors couch - by whom, and most importantly for the sake of what - it was necessary to continue the PMV? The vast majority of those living at that time, it was clear - we do not need this war, not ours. And after 100 years, you regret that few Russians in the WWII killed, crippled, it was necessary to still kill them.
          Quote: Bouncer
          Volunteer army, bending without shells, did not go on the path of agreement with the Germans

          the chieftain, responding to attacks for relations with the Germans and hearing that he was given as an example the pigeon purity of the Volunteer Army, which on its banner invariably bears unwavering fidelity to the allies, exclaimed:
          - Yes, yes, gentlemen! A volunteer army is pure and infallible. But after all, it’s me, the Don Ataman, I take German shells and cartridges with my dirty hands, wash them in the waves of the Quiet Don and give them clean to the Volunteer Army! All the shame of this business lies with me!
          A storm of applause covered the words of the chieftain. Attacks for the "German orientation" ceased.
          1. Bouncer
            Bouncer 5 June 2018 12: 10
            +19
            You can continue to answer yourself and correspond with yourself.
            I wrote facts about the ROA, and about the anti-German position of the Drobrarmia, etc.
            Continue the torment in the same vein, fun to read))
        3. APIS
          APIS 5 June 2018 14: 32
          +5
          Quote: Bouncer
          In the Soviet and post-Soviet space, there was not a single revolution. There were counter-revolutions (late 80s - early 90s), and coups (Ukraine 2014).

          Yes of course.
          And our coups of 1991- and 1993? And the color revolutions in Ukraine, in Georgia and (as I understand it) in Armenia too? And any coup can be judged by signs for a "revolution." Example - February 1917 coup
          Red heroes fought with the Germans; but the big "heroes", on the contrary, fought with the Reds, who were fighting the invaders.

          The red “heroes” supplied the Germans with gold across the Brest Peace, and fled when they appeared (Dybenkov echelons right where they ended up in February 1918, and we celebrate the holiday).
          In the Second World War, a number of “heroes” fought along with the Germans (it is enough to recall the ROA), but the Volunteer Army, bending without shells, did not go on the path of agreement with the Germans (unlike Krasnov). And during WWII, many white officers fought with the Germans in the Red Army, the Allied forces and the Resistance Movement

          Well, of course, a gang of Drozdovites gritted their teeth and fiercely hating the invaders through German positions made their way to the Don. And the Germans always "turned out by the way" when the Reds staged them.
          Kolchak's gold certainly fell into "good hands."
          The Russian security corps and the command of the Cossack camp consisted entirely of "Red-bellied".
          Call the "white heroes of the Second World War"?
          1. Bouncer
            Bouncer 5 June 2018 14: 49
            +18
            Of course.
            I will not burden the names of former lieutenants and captains - fighters of the armies of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition. And even the name of A.N. I will not recall Denikin, who helped the Red Army soldiers who had escaped from captivity and who nearly fell into a Nazi concentration camp.
            It will be enough to give the names of the former WHITE GUARDS (precisely the White Guards, and not officers of the imperial army) - and their contribution to the victory of the Second World War is more than.
            Read
            https://pikabu.ru/story/marshalyi_i_generalyi_rkk
            a_byivshie_belogvardeytsyi_5250050
            1. APIS
              APIS 5 June 2018 14: 58
              +4
              Quote: Bouncer
              Of course.
              I will not burden the names of former lieutenants and captains - fighters of the armies of the countries of the anti-Hitler coalition. And even the name of A.N. I will not recall Denikin, who helped the Red Army soldiers who had escaped from captivity and who nearly fell into a Nazi concentration camp.
              It will be enough to give the names of the former WHITE GUARDS (precisely the White Guards, and not officers of the imperial army) - and their contribution to the victory of the Second World War is more than.
              Read
              https://pikabu.ru/story/marshalyi_i_generalyi_rkk
              a_byivshie_belogvardeytsyi_5250050

              Yes, call it, do not consider it work.
              Denikin really will not pull on the hero of resistance.
              Soviet I know.
              1. Bouncer
                Bouncer 5 June 2018 15: 04
                +17
                So just know what you ask.
                1. Bouncer
                  Bouncer 5 June 2018 15: 12
                  +16
                  https://volnodum.livejournal.com/747085.html
                  it is only by the resistance movement in France

                  http://history.milportal.ru/2014/07/rossijskaya-e
                  migraciya-v-militaryx-konfliktax-v-predvoennye-gody
                  -i-nachalnyj-period-vtoroj-mirovoj-vojny /

                  and here - even white emigrants - members of inter-brigades in Spain,
                  It is written for example:
                  During the Second World War, immigrants who fought in the ranks of the Republicans continued the struggle against fascism in the ranks of the Resistance. These are the former midshipmen of the imperial fleet N.N. Roller and G.V. Shibanov. Hero of the French "Resistance" I.I. Troyan died in 1944 in the Gestapo dungeons.
                  "... after the armistice of 1940, very few Russians took part in the war in the ranks of the Resistance or the de Gaulle army. There were several reasons for this. First, Marshal Pétain called for cooperation with the Germans, and French society did not seek active Secondly, Germany was not an enemy for Russian refugees in France, so most Russian emigrants, especially at first, did nothing [38].

                  At the same time, there were people among the Russian emigrants who, as volunteers, continued the struggle against fascism in the ranks of the army of General de Gaulle. G.V. Adamovich at the age of 45, hiding a heart defect, in the very first days of the war he volunteered for the French army. Chairman of the Association of Emigrant Warriors N.V. Vyrubov in 1940 joined the army of de Gaulle. He said: “... I considered it my duty to be Russian while abroad, to support the honor of a kind and to benefit the community among which I had to live. Voluntary participation in the war was the honor of my life ”[39]. Throughout the war, he was an ordinary and non-commissioned officer. He was awarded two military crosses and the Legion of Honor. A special place among his awards is occupied by the rare and honorable order of France - the Cross of Liberation, established by General de Gaulle for the people, regiments and cities that contributed to the liberation of France. The Liberation Cross received a little over a thousand people. In a presentation to the award, the battalion commander wrote about Vyrubov: “A brilliant non-commissioned officer of Russian descent, a man of high moral qualities. In 40, he volunteered for the French Liberation Forces. He participated in the Syrian, Libyan and Tunisian campaigns. In the city of Pantecorve raised the French flag in the face of the enemy. Being wounded, he refused to leave the battlefield and declared his desire to enter the shock company in order to come closer to the enemy. He was seriously injured in the attack of Bunny di Tivoli, in which he participated as a platoon commander. A wonderful warrior who embodies the highest spirit of service to France, his second homeland. "
                  1. Bouncer
                    Bouncer 5 June 2018 15: 15
                    +18
                    By the way, the white Cossack Eliseev as part of the Foreign Legion fought with the Japanese. This is in old age!
                    1. Bouncer
                      Bouncer 5 June 2018 15: 17
                      +17
                      And it is necessary for the Soviet government to give explanations - how it brought to power such as Gorbachev and Yeltsin. A couple of generations lived like under socialism - and the oligarchy came. So the whole doctrine of the construction of communism turned out to be bullshit.
                      Different Sweden and Finland are much closer to this system.
                      1. IS-80_RVGK2
                        IS-80_RVGK2 5 June 2018 21: 46
                        +3
                        Tell me about the cloudless construction of capitalism throughout the world.
                        Sweden and Finland are never closer. Can we say that today, too, socialism is not true for everyone, how much is Rosstat showing millionaires there today?
            2. Bouncer
              Bouncer 5 June 2018 15: 02
              +17
              And one more thing.
              The Russian Security Corps mentioned by you consisted of both emigrants and citizens of the USSR. The population is 11 thousand people.
              And the VLASOVA ROA consisted mainly of citizens of the USSR (former prisoners of war) and its number was up to 130 thousand people.
              These are 2 big differences.
              1. rkkasa xnumx
                rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 15: 50
                +5
                Quote: Bouncer
                And the VLASOVA ROA consisted mainly of Soviet citizens (former prisoners of war) and its number was up to 130 thousand people

                Chatterbox, are you aware that tens of millions of soldiers passed through the Red Army during the war? Or do not you understand that 100 thousand. Vlasovites, could not outweigh the millions of those who, despite all the horrors of captivity, did not side with the Germans?
                But the bailers who lived in Europe, voluntarily went to fight with their people. As well as during the Civil War.
                1. Bouncer
                  Bouncer 5 June 2018 16: 00
                  +18
                  This is a chatterbox
                  Just compare the numbers. Though crazy for that, I hope that's enough.
                  How to understand the fact that ALL Russian people forged victory - and the Soviet people (a significant part of whose ancestors fought in Guards on the side of the whites - such as many peasants, workers of the Izhevsk and Votkinsk factories, etc.), and former emigrants, etc. .d. - that is, all but collaborators, the bulk of whom were (incidentally) not emigrants, but citizens of the USSR.
      2. andrew42
        andrew42 5 June 2018 08: 46
        +5
        It's like that. But this is the result. If the price of such a result is a split in society and tens of thousands of victims, then this is Pyrrhic victory. Above ourselves. According to the method of "non-commissioned officer widow", who hewed herself according to Saltykov-Shchedrin. If the Stalinist "zigzag of history" with reformatting the composition of the party, the Trotskyists would have devoured Russia and surrendered in the 30s to the same bourgeois who ordered the WWII and the New Russian Troubles. There were no Heroes of the Fatherland in the Civil War. One must have a conscience, and not sculpt wings on one side and tails with hooves on the other. If the Ural Cossacks are not Russian, and accomplices of "foreign capital", then I am ashamed to call myself Russian.
  3. Head Physician
    Head Physician 5 June 2018 08: 38
    +21
    Many of the heroes of the Civil War were waiting for "recycling"
    Craftsmen, who know how to fight with their own people, as a rule, were not needed either in civilian life or in the struggle against an external enemy.
    And the fate of many commanders of the 25th Infantry 1st formation (i.e., before its death in Sevastopol in the summer of 1942) is an example.
    G.K. Voskanov - the person involved in the battle and this time zaddiv:
    Arrested on May 28, 1937, sentenced by the VKVS of the USSR on September 20, 1937 on charges of counter-revolutionary and terrorist activity to the Navy and shot on the same day, rehabilitated posthumously December 29, 1956.


    M. D. Velikanov - acting 25-sd when Chapaev studied, and also in March - April 1919 commanded the Ufa Group of Forces. In April - June 1919 - the commander of the Orenburg Defense Forces group, distinguished himself during the 70-day defense of the city from the troops of the Orenburg Army, General A. I. Dutov. In the summer of 1919 he was transferred to the Southern Front against the army of General A.I. Denikin and was appointed head of the 20th Rifle Division. There he also proved to be a skilled commander. In the Egorlyk operation in February 1920, Velikanov’s division was quickly subordinated to the commander of the 1st Cavalry Army S. M. Budenny and played a large role in defeating the enemy. Later he participated in the hostilities in the North Caucasus, participated in the capture of Derbent, Petrovsk, Temir-Khan-Shura. In May 1920, he distinguished himself in the operation to seize Azerbaijan and liquidate the Musavat government. He led the suppression of the anti-Soviet rebellion in Ganja from May 22 to June 3, 1920. In January - March 1921 - participated in the Soviet-Georgian war. He also took part in battles with Dashnak forces (Erivan operation) from March to May 1921, being the commander of a group of forces of the Erivan direction.
    Oddly enough, he also turned out to be the enemy ... Enemies came out not only penetrated to all levels of Soviet power, but were still heroes, fought for this power and established this power ...
    As a result - the commander of the 2nd rank M. D. Velikanov
    November 28, 1937 removed from his post, and December 20 - arrested. He was listed on the list of 138 military leaders of the Red Army who were to be shot in the first category, sent on July 26, 1938 by the People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR N. I. Ezhov to I. V. Stalin and in writing sanctioned by I. V. Stalin and V. M. Molotov. On July 29, 1938, he was sentenced by the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR to capital punishment and shot on the same day. The definition of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR of September 1, 1956 rehabilitated.


    The brigade commander Kutyakov I.S. is also a person involved in the battle. As a brigade commander in the 25th Infantry Division, he participated in all its operations, including the liberation of Samara, Ufa, and Uralsk. For military skills and personal courage shown during the liberation of Ufa, together with V. I. Chapaev, they were awarded the Order of the Red Banner.
    After the death of Chapaev, on September 5, 1919, he took command of the division, completed the defeat of the troops of the Ural Cossack Army by taking Guriev, for which he was awarded the Honorary Revolutionary Weapon (a saber with the sign of the Order of the Red Banner - like the golden St. George's Arms). In 1920, together with the division, he was transferred to the Western Front, for which he was awarded the second Order of the Red Banner.
    И что же?
    May 15, 1937 was arrested along with a large group of the high command of the Red Army. He was executed on July 28, 1938. Rehabilitated by the definition of the Military Collegium of the Supreme Court of the USSR on March 15, 1956.

    Or.

    Tal Boris Markovich. From 1919 to April 1920 - military commissar, then - commander of the 73rd Infantry Brigade of the 25th Infantry Division. Commander V.I. Chapaev awarded Boris Krishtal a saber with personal painting for courage. From January 10 to 29, 1920, he temporarily served as the commissioner of the division. From May 10, 1920 to August 4, 1920 - Commissioner of the 25th Rifle Division; Between July 18 and August 4, 1920, he also temporarily served as the head of the same division. In 1923 he was awarded the Order of the Red Banner.
    And what? Also turned out to be an enemy, and
    December 2, 1937 was arrested. September 17, 1938 was sentenced to death as a member of a Trotskyist terrorist organization; on the same day the sentence was carried out.
    Rehabilitated on January 11, 1956.

    And you can continue on. Maybe Chapaev, if he did not die on time, would a similar fate await? Surely ...
    And after all, this is an example of only ONE DIVISION. What can we say about the whole state? If there are so many enemies in it, then the final is not surprising, and the fact that such people as Gorbachev and Yeltsin were in the highest echelons of power.
    Thanks to the author and the site for this group of articles.
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 12: 27
      +1
      Quote: Chief Physician
      Craftsmen who know how to fight with their own people, as a rule, were not needed neither in civilian life, nor in the struggle against an external enemy

      If you are talking about bailers, then really, all this shushera, first from the Germans got the Lyuli, then from the Reds to Civil. Well, in the Great Patriotic War, one more time. Parasites that are not able to withstand a really strong opponent.
      And if you had in mind the Reds, then what about Zhukov-Rokossovsky-Konev-Tolbukhin and many, many others, on the account of which there were victories over the Baloders, the Japanese, and the Germans?
      1. Bouncer
        Bouncer 5 June 2018 12: 49
        +18
        If you are talking about bailers, then really, all this riffraff, at first I got the Lyuli from the Germans, then from the Reds to Civil.

        No, the uncle wrote just about sovdepovets. And the crowds of Khiva who served the Germans and Vlasovites are a bitter fact.
        And if you had in mind the Reds, then what about Zhukov-Rokossovsky-Konev-Tolbukhin and many, many others, on the account of which there were victories over the Baloders, the Japanese, and the Germans

        They beat them at first, these Konevs, Tolbukhins, etc., until they learned to fight. And you can remember, besides the former non-commissioners, Vasilevsky (the former staff captain), Govorov (the former lieutenant), and Shaposhnikov (the former colonel).
        But, what a blessing, that the opposition of these wars takes place only in the heads of individual and deeply sick people (this is me about rkassa 81), from whom (by the way, they are even dreaming of the old, but they are tearing apart medveputes) - you just have to stay away.
        1. rkkasa xnumx
          rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 14: 15
          +3
          Quote: Bouncer
          They beat them at first, these Konevs, Tolbukhins, etc.

          Quote: Bouncer
          it’s fortunate that the opposition of these wars takes place only in the heads of individual and deeply sick people (this is me about rkassa 81), from whom (by the way, they even dream of the old, but they tear their asses of medveputes

          Debilushko, in World War II, was defeated by the Red Army, the flesh of the flesh of Soviet Russia. The bailers of the Germans only waved with all their joy.
          And this, chatterbox, will you give evidence about medveputov?
          1. Albatroz
            Albatroz 5 June 2018 14: 27
            +4
            They wrote to you that many former whites fought with Nazism.
            And many of the Reds (the whole army was ROA) fought on the side of the Nazis.
            So - on the conscience ...
            If available.
    2. Albatroz
      Albatroz 5 June 2018 14: 25
      +4
      Why feel sorry for them?
      In fact, Nazism can be ethnic (German national socialism) or social (when the Bolsheviks destroyed people on a professional basis (officers, officials, clergy) or on a class basis)).
      Therefore, all these Velikanovs, Chapaevs, Kutyakovs are enemies of the people then, and there is nothing to spare them.
      Just as now the enemies of the people are like rkkasa 81, who continue to preach social Nazism (that is, Bolshevism).
      1. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 14: 45
        0
        Quote: Albatroz
        the Bolsheviks destroyed people on a professional basis (officers, officials, clergy) or on a class basis))

        Yeah ... to such nonsense, even Olgovich did not seem to fall. Have you ever been poked in the number of tsarist officers who sided with the Bolsheviks?
        1. Bouncer
          Bouncer 5 June 2018 14: 52
          +18
          Are you aware of the decision on the total destruction of counterintelligence RI and RR?
          Or is it not a profession?
          And the execution of officers by lists (innocent and not participating anywhere - simply because they are officers) - have you heard about this?
          1. Olgovich
            Olgovich 6 June 2018 09: 14
            +3
            Quote: Bouncer
            And the execution of officers lists (innocent and not participating anywhere - simply because they are officers) - have you heard about this?

            He will require lists Yes : he demands them all the time!
            But then all the same, he doesn’t recognize: his head is buried securely in the sand, she is comfortable, and the fact that the part remaining above is kicked with might and main, does not bother him Yes
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 6 June 2018 09: 07
          +2
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          to such nonsense, even Olgovich did not seem to fall.

          This is not nonsense, but the truth.
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 5 June 2018 19: 36
        +7
        Quote: Albatroz
        In fact, Nazism can be ethnic (German national socialism) or social (when the Bolsheviks destroyed people on a professional basis (officers, officials, clergy) or on a class basis)).

        Ek, how do gentlemen want to equate the Nazis and the Communists. Even social nazism invented - although the term "Nazism" itself already indicates that separation on clean and unclean in this ideology occurs exclusively on a national basis.
        The destruction of a class does not mean the destruction of all its representatives. The class can be changed - an example of which, by the way, is one notorious offspring of a real state adviser, director of public schools. smile Yes and others former exploiters and bloodsuckers in the power structures of the USSR and in the country itself was enough.
        But the destruction of the nation is possible only together with all its members. For it’s almost impossible to leave the nation - will not beat on the passport. Especially those who were appointed the main culprits of everything that happened with the Reich.
        1. Albatroz
          Albatroz 5 June 2018 19: 50
          +3
          Alexey RA
          The destruction of a class does not mean the destruction of all its representatives

          Congratulations, here is the preaching of social and professional Nazism.
          What else can I talk about?
          Ek, how do gentlemen want to equate the Nazis and the Communists.

          I'm not a whitewater at all - this is your fantasy. Just like you, no fick is a communist.
          But there is no need to equalize them - there is the term “red-brown”: only some graduated people according to nationality, and others - on a class-professional basis (both of them finished all who they wanted, they did not have time or could not, especially since because I quote
          does not mean the destruction of all its representatives.
          ).
          The feat of our people in the Second World War to destroy the brown plague does not yet give indulgence to Bolshevism, which is responsible for destroying not only the foundations of the cultural layer, but also part of the masses of Russia.
          By the way, not a nation is written in the passport, but nationality - and that is optional)
          It seems to be nothing more to talk about, and disdain
          Good luck hi
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 6 June 2018 17: 56
            +3
            Quote: Albatroz
            It seems to be nothing more to talk about, and disdain

            Ltd! At the forum, one more squeamish appeared, one can also see a descendant of pupils of the Institute of Noble Maidens.
            1. Reptiloid
              Reptiloid 7 June 2018 04: 51
              +1
              Quote: Alexander Green
              Quote: Albatroz
              It seems to be nothing more to talk about, and disdain

              Ltd! At the forum, one more squeamish appeared, one can also see a descendant of pupils of the Institute of Noble Maidens.

              Yeah, interesting ... I thought only in Moldova did the use of archaic Russian words matured
          2. Reptiloid
            Reptiloid 7 June 2018 05: 03
            +4
            Quote: Albatroz
            The feat of our people in the Second World War to destroy the brown plague does not yet give indulgence to Bolshevism, which is responsible for destroying not only the foundations of the cultural layer, but also part of the masses of Russia. hi

            The feat of our people became possible only because during the Great Patriotic War the people defended the Socialist Fatherland. There were those who lived under the tsar and remembered that time well. It was thanks to the Bolsheviks that a state was created that all countries in the world reckoned with.
    3. Olgovich
      Olgovich 5 June 2018 14: 39
      +6
      Quote: Chief Physician
      And the fate of many commanders of the 25th Infantry 1st formation (i.e., before its death in Sevastopol in the summer of 1942) is an example.

      Strongly you beat on witnesses ilich ...
      And in any way they can not argue ..
      Almost ALL the commanders of the famous Chapaevskaya turned out to be ... bandits and terrorists.
      But for them, this is normal ....
    4. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 6 June 2018 17: 39
      +3
      Quote: Chief Physician
      And after all, this is an example of only ONE DIVISION. What can we say about the whole state? If there are so many enemies in it, then the final is not surprising,


      And what is incomprehensible here?

      Before the war, the ranks of the Red Army were cleaned up, in which there were many supporters of Trotsky, who had been at the head of the army for a long time, among the senior and higher command staff. It was he who formed the highest and senior command staff. As a result, a wide layer of people was formed in the Red Army who owed Trotsky their career.
      Trotsky was never a Bolshevik, and during the discussion after the death of Lenin, numerous supporters of Trotsky were identified in the country, including among the military. And if in peacetime they did not pose a great threat, then in the context of the impending war the questions about the personnel of the army and who the army would follow were especially acute.
      In the second half of 1936, Trotsky's book, The Betrayed Revolution, was published. It called on the Trotskyist underground to use their positions in the party-state and military apparatus to prepare a political revolution against the "Stalinist Thermidor" to overthrow the Soviet regime. After that, the Trotskyist party underground intensified in the USSR, and the real danger of a military coup arose in order to change the political system of the country.
      This could not but alert Stalin. In addition, information appeared about a conspiracy among the high command of the Red Army, headed by Marshal M.N. Tukhachevsky, and Trotsky added fuel to the fire - he constantly boasted that the army would follow him under all conditions.
      Many red commanders were drawn into this conspiracy, some of them sided consciously, because they didn’t have Bolshevik convictions; others were offended by the Soviet Government because they underestimated them. Therefore, among the conspirators were former heroic commanders of the 25th Chapaev Division. Hence the purge.
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 7 June 2018 04: 33
        +3
        Greetings, Alexander! Thanks for the clarification.
      2. Streletskos
        Streletskos 7 June 2018 05: 45
        +15
        Many red commanders were drawn into this conspiracy, some of them sided consciously, because they didn’t have Bolshevik convictions; others were offended by the Soviet Government because they underestimated them. Therefore, among the conspirators were former heroic commanders of the 25th Chapaev Division. Hence the purge.

        If everything is so simple) Yes, and they are certainly not conspirators ..
        Other political views (if they were of course) = synonymous with "work" on a dozen intelligence services and terrorism?
        Yeah. As Mason's lawyer said - there is nothing more to add to the defense)
  4. Albatroz
    Albatroz 5 June 2018 14: 28
    +4
    Thanks for the interesting and balanced article. hi
  5. Catfish
    Catfish 6 June 2018 00: 38
    +2
    Quote: rkkasa 81

    But the bailers who lived in Europe.


    Please tell me, but you distort the Russian language simply out of ignorance of it, bailers, or is there a big and deep political meaning? love
  6. Black joe
    Black joe 6 June 2018 09: 15
    +3
    The final is really logical
    Though a century has passed
    Russia is in ruin, and in the minds of the Civil War
    ATP per cycle
  7. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 7 June 2018 04: 27
    0
    I read that I missed it before. Thanks for the loop. Coverage of important events
    1. Streletskos
      Streletskos 7 June 2018 05: 47
      +15
      I think less should be written about the Civil War.
      And so in people it’s in the blood)
      1. Reptiloid
        Reptiloid 7 June 2018 18: 45
        0
        I think more should be written about all the wars of the 20th century, about the events of the 90s. That's just the quality of the works, their status is very different. Maybe the material is worked out, faithfully presented in good Russian at a high cultural level in accordance with historical truth and a patriotic position.
        Or maybe there is one where the exact opposite, and even falsifications and lies.
  8. 123456789
    123456789 14 June 2018 23: 03
    0
    Does every revolution devour its “heroes"? Those who take power illegally must be prepared that they will also be taken away from them?
    .. The romantics begin the revolution, fanatics make, and scum come to power ...