Military Review

BMPT "Terminator": a successful failure?

113
At the end of March this year, the Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation announced the completion of assembly and testing of the first batch of support combat vehicles tanks / fire support "Terminator". 10 production vehicles were sent to the customer and became the first examples of their type in the Russian army. In the foreseeable future, new deliveries will take place, with the help of which the required fleet of equipment will be formed. Despite such successes, the BMPT project is still controversial.


The main reason for the ongoing disputes is the fact that the "Terminator" - like any other model of military equipment - has not only positive features, but also disadvantages or ambiguous features. This contributes to the beginning of the most active discussions, and the fundamental decisions of the military, such as adopting equipment to the armament, only aggravate disputes. Let's try to figure out what claims are made to the BMPT, and what she can say in her defense.

Around cons?

The Russian projects of the BMPT of the Terminator family are based on rather simple but curious ideas. It is proposed to equip the serial tank chassis with a special turret and an updated weapon system. Instead of a tank gun and a set of machine guns, it is proposed to use a pair of automatic guns, machine guns, automatic grenade launchers and guided missiles. It is argued that such a weapon system allows the combat vehicle to fight a variety of objectives, choosing the most effective in this situation.



The first claim to the "Terminator" concerns the level of protection of the machine and its individual units, directly affecting the combat survivability. All tank models are based on a tank chassis: for example, the production vehicle for the Russian army is built on the basis of the T-90 tank. This chassis has a combined frontal armor, covered with blocks of dynamic protection. In general, in terms of protection, the corps of such a “Terminator” corresponds to existing tanks and is able to withstand shelling from various weapons, including quite powerful.

However, the tower of this armored vehicle, apparently, seriously loses on the protection of the body. All weapons systems and fire controls are located inside the armor casings, but it is obvious that they are able to protect only from bullets, fragments and small-caliber shells. The layout of the weapon is also not conducive to increasing survivability. Barrels of guns and containers with anti-tank missiles are located outside the tower. However, in the new project for their protection additional covers are provided.

Thus, the domestic "Terminators" protect their crew well, but at the same time expose to great risks weapons and ammunition. This means that under certain circumstances during the battle the armored vehicle risks losing some of the most powerful weapons from the enemy’s fire, with a certain drop in fighting qualities.

As planned by the engineers, the BMPT can use the PKTM machine gun and AG-17D automatic grenade launchers to combat manpower or unprotected targets. Lightly armored vehicles or buildings can be attacked using two 30-2 42-mm cannons. In case of a meeting with the Terminator tanks, it carries four Ataka-T missiles. Depending on the weapon used, the armored vehicle is capable of attacking targets at ranges from hundreds of meters to 6-8 km.

The existing weapon system looks interesting and very effective, but it can be criticized. For example, the subject of a claim may be an existing missile system. It is assumed that with his help BMPT will be able to help tankers in the fight against enemy tanks, destroying part of the targets at long distances. However, the Terminator’s ammunition consists of only four missiles. Thus, after only a few launches, the armored vehicle will be able to deal with the most serious threat only with the help of automatic guns, the effectiveness of which will be insufficient.

In the context of guided and artillery weapons, BMPTs are sometimes compared with modern main battle tanks, and this comparison is usually not in its favor. Thus, in the fight against armored vehicles, any serial domestic tank has the ability to "meet" the enemy with guided missiles, and after approaching a sufficient distance to use armor-piercing shells. In case of a collision with infantry or lightly armored vehicles, the tank has high-explosive fragmentation shots and machine guns.

According to known data, the Terminator BMPT is equipped with a modern fire control system that meets current requirements and is built using “tank” devices. In particular, at the disposal of the commander and gunner there are combined sights with day and night channels, as well as a laser rangefinder. The gunner's sight is located in front of the main part of the turret and is intended for tracking the forward hemisphere. The commander, in turn, must use a panoramic sight.

The instruments used make it possible to monitor the situation, search for targets and direct the main weapon, but even here weak points can be found. First of all, the Terminator sights have rather weak protection and therefore can hardly be distinguished by high combat survivability. However, there are similar problems with many other modern models of armored vehicles. Another specific point - the lack of special advantages over the instruments of serial tanks. As a result, the BMPT, working in the same order as the tanks, will not be able to find targets earlier and faster.



This can adversely affect both the Terminator’s own work and joint operations with tanks. The fact is that modern anti-tank missile systems may have an increased firing range, superior to the capabilities of optics and small arms of mass-produced tanks. In this case, their detection and destruction becomes the task of BMPT, but their potential in this matter may be limited. Fortunately, such problems can occur only in the field of detection tools. The presence of a pair of automatic guns guarantees the successful destruction of the found complex, along with the calculation and transport in a wide range of distances.

According to various sources, the BMPT in its latest version, which became the subject of the contract between Uralvagonzavod and the Ministry of Defense, is distinguished by a rather high cost - which is also not an advantage. Due to the use of dissimilar weapons and special control systems, as well as the results of other innovations of the project, the finished “Terminator” costs more than the T-90 production tank, on the basis of which it is being built.

Strange concept

It is worth recalling that the domestic tank support combat vehicle was first introduced in the late nineties, but for nearly two decades it could not get into service with the Russian army. Until a certain time, the reason for this was the ambiguity of the concept and the lack of an appropriate tactical niche in the existing strategies. In other words, the military simply could not find a place for the "Terminator" in the army. And this can also be considered a problem of BMPT.

For several decades, the task of fire support of the infantry was assigned, first of all, to tanks. In this case, the soldiers, supported by armored fire, were supposed to protect the tanks from tank-dangerous targets. In such a system, the task of supporting infantry could also be carried out by infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers. The concept of BMPT was based on similar ideas, but did not fit into the existing views on the organization of an all-arms battle. It turned out that the "Terminator" is a vehicle for supporting tanks, which, in turn, are designed to support infantry. It all seemed overly complicated and expensive, but at the same time, it seemed, it offered no advantages.

As a result, for a long time, BMPT projects remained without real prospects. However, by the end of the two thousand years, a fundamental decision was made to adopt the Terminators. In the future, new difficulties arose, because of which these plans were not realized. The first contract for the supply of new equipment was signed only last year, and serial vehicles went to the troops just a couple of months ago.

The tank support / fire support vehicle finally arrives at the Russian armed forces and replenishes the fleet of vehicles with only a few parts. In this case, the debate about this technique does not stop. Their continuation contributes to the preservation of the characteristic features of the machine, which from certain points of view may look like flaws. However, the army has already made its choice and nevertheless decided to begin the operation of unusual equipment.

Word for practice

One may consider the “pure” appearance and technical characteristics of armored vehicles, as well as conduct mental experiments, but practice will still remain the criterion of truth. And in this regard, "Terminator" has already managed to show their best. For several years, prototypes of a number of modifications passed various tests at landfills. Then the advanced technology, having passed the necessary refinement, went to a real war.

In 2017, the Terminator was sent to Syria for verification in a real armed conflict. With this technique, it was necessary to solve problems that are definitely different from those in its name. Since the Syrian army and its opponents do not conduct large-scale tank battles, the BMPT was planned to be used as a means of fire support for infantry. In practice, it was shown that the existing combination of tank armor, cannon-machine gun and rocket weapons allows to solve a wide range of combat missions within the framework of a local conflict.

As far as we know, it was the results of the operation of the “Terminators” in Syria that became one of the main reasons for adopting such equipment. In August last year, a contract appeared for the serial production and supply of new combat vehicles. The first batch of such equipment was transferred to the customer at the end of March. In the near future, the remaining vehicles will be handed over to the army, and the contract will be fully completed no later than 2019.



The events around the Terminator project that have been observed lately actually put an end to many years of controversy. During the tests and trial military operation in a hot spot, it was found that such equipment is suitable for service and can be ordered for the army. Among other things, this means that the various specific features of the BMPT, which could be considered to be shortcomings, are in fact not so. Combat vehicle meets the requirements of the battlefield and can find a place in the Russian armed forces.

The future issue

While the Russian army was deciding whether it needed the Terminator, the designers of Uralvagonzavod NPK did not lose time. In recent years, they have offered a whole family of tank support / fire support vehicles. All these projects are based on common ideas, but use different components. First of all, several “Terminators” differ in the type of base chassis. Some of these projects have already been implemented in metal and brought to the test, while others are still waiting in the wings.

Originally, BMPT was developed on the basis of the main tank T-90. After a number of changes, this is the version of the armored vehicle that went into the series and is delivered to the troops. Also several years ago, Uralvagonzavod presented a modification of the Terminator based on the chassis of the T-72 tank. Despite certain changes of one kind or another, the main features of the technology remained the same. To promote projects on the market, several prototypes were built on different chassis, regularly demonstrated at various exhibitions.

A few years ago, plans were announced to create a new version of the Terminator. This time they plan to install a tower with various weapons on an Armata type chassis. To date, the unified tracked platform of this type has managed to become the basis for a tank, a heavy infantry fighting vehicle and an evacuation vehicle. In the future it is planned to continue the development of the family, creating new models of equipment. One of them will be a tank support / fire support vehicle.

Perhaps the new family project will involve a significant increase in firepower. For example, a pair of 30-mm guns can be replaced with one 57 mm automatic rifle. This will improve the main fire qualities of the machine, as well as increase the effective range and expand the range of targets hit. However, while this project is in its early stages and the company-developer, probably, cannot yet submit a prototype or its model.

Anyway, after long years of uncertainty, Terminator BMPT still managed to get into the army. While the plans of the military department do not provide for the purchase of such equipment in large quantities, but in the future the situation may change. In this case, the project develops, which leads to the emergence of new modifications. What will be the fate of these options BMPT - it remains only to guess. However, it is obvious that the recent successes of the existing “Terminators” will positively affect the further development of the family.

On the materials of the sites:
http://uralvagonzavod.ru/
https://mil.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://tass.ru/
https://rg.ru/
https://gazeta.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/
Author:
Photos used:
NPK "Uralvagonzavod", the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
113 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 4 June 2018 05: 04
    +25
    "BMPT discord" ... Syria really showed that in an armed conflict of moderate intensity, such a machine is NEEDED, in its absence it is necessary to use all sorts of homemade products for other purposes than ZSU Shilka. It remains to understand in what armed conflicts Russia may be involved
    1. Chertt
      Chertt 4 June 2018 05: 44
      +12
      Quote: svp67
      It remains to understand in what armed conflicts Russia may be involved

      Military analysts agree that the number of local conflicts (or as you say -medium intensity) will increase. So based on the results of the application in Syria. BMPT needed.
      1. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 4 June 2018 07: 47
        +11
        Quote: Chertt
        So based on the results of the application in Syria. BMPT needed.

        I already wrote in previous comments that we need a BMPPP (infantry fire support combat vehicle)! It can also perform the functions of BMPT ... therefore, it is quite possible to get by with a shorter abbreviation ... BMOS! Speaking specifically about the BMPT, we need a specialized (even "highly specialized" ...) combat vehicle "sharpened" to protect tanks, primarily from anti-tank missiles with a range of several kilometers to tens ... The ability to "shoot down" BOPS is welcome! "On the face" implementation of the concept of group protection; protection at long, medium range ...! Individually, tanks should be equipped with simpler (cheaper) KAZs, aimed at defeating, first of all, anti-tank grenades (grenade launchers, rifle grenades, possibly short-range subsonic anti-tank missiles ... that is, self-defense "point blank") installation on the "Terminator" 57-mm guns - welcome! Self-propelled guns ZSU-57-2 showed themselves excellently as a BMPP. (If they are less frequently mentioned than ZSU-23-4, it is only because there are much fewer ...) But in the case of installing an 57-mm gun, the armament must be supplemented grenade launchers: AGS-40 or AGS-57 ...
        1. Chertt
          Chertt 4 June 2018 07: 56
          +1
          That is, BMOPP is a BMP with functions tank protection, first of all, from anti-tank missiles. Naturally, at the modern technical level. I do not see innovation
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 4 June 2018 08: 58
            +5
            Quote: Chertt
            About BMPPT is a BMP with the functions of protecting tanks, primarily from anti-tank missiles. Naturally, at the modern technical level. I do not see innovation

            A little bit wrong ... BMPTs of the Terminator type can fight well "in the ranks" of infantry ... special forces as BMPPP ... well, let them "be" in that role.! If necessary, will be able to provide support and tanks! I propose the idea of ​​a more specialized tank support combat vehicle (!) - a complex of missile defense tanks ....
            1. Chertt
              Chertt 4 June 2018 09: 12
              +2
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              I propose the idea of ​​a more specialized combat support vehicle for tanks (!) - a complex of missile defense tanks ..

              And how do you propose to solve the problem of "expediency". After all, it will be necessary to attach BMD to each MBT. Military developers of all countries have gone the other way, by creating KAZ
              1. Alex_Rarog
                Alex_Rarog 4 June 2018 18: 40
                +1
                KAZ is not a ponacea ... it cannot always be active! and its ammunition is also limited! and bmpt, even if it’s not so kazy, can greatly help out both the Infantry and the infantry fighting infantry fighting !!!
              2. Nikolaevich I
                Nikolaevich I 5 June 2018 02: 34
                +1
                Quote: Chertt
                After all, each BMT will have to “attach BM PRO.

                Something I don’t see my earlier answer to this your comment .... therefore, I repeat: "This is a complex of group (!) Protection of tanks ... the complex is attached, for example, to a tank platoon ...
        2. venik
          venik 4 June 2018 21: 02
          +2
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          I already wrote in previous comments that we need a BMPPP (infantry fire support combat vehicle)! It can also perform the functions of BMPT ..

          ========
          Dear namesake !! You, like a respected author (Kirill Ryabov) completely forgot about another BMPT function !!! Namely - the air defense of tank columns ... Formally, this function is performed by "Shilka", "Tunguska" and tracked "Armor" (the latter, by the way, very good!), And also BMP .... BUT! And those and others and the third and fourth - they have only light “bulletproof” armor ... And that means they simply cannot act in the “first line” !! Yes, the "Shell" and from the "second line" can get a helicopter or attack aircraft (if it rises to the "proper height", of course) .... BUT! (again) - in the "FIRST LINE" of the attack they can’t act !!! There you need "tank armor" !!! This is where the "Terminators" are needed - a certain universal machinecapable of combating, as with MULTIPLE ground firing points SIMULTANEOUSLYand, if necessary, “land” helicopters (for this purpose not only guns are suitable, but ATGM “Attack” is perfect !!! There are even special versions of high-explosive fragmentation and thermobaric) .....
          1. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 5 June 2018 02: 24
            +3
            Quote: venik
            ka !! You, like a respected author (Kirill Ryabov) completely forgot about another BMPT function !!! Namely, the air defense of tank columns ...

            No .... I haven’t forgotten! In previous comments, I designated the proposed complex as a missile defense / air defense system and wrote, for example, about the anti-helicopter capabilities of the systems. I wrote about the alleged weapons of the complex, which can attack both anti-aircraft missiles and helicopters. In the description of the weapons I relied on the latest developments in the world in the field of object-based missile defense / air defense ... in particular, small-caliber interceptor missiles with a kinetic method of destruction and vertical launch "are present" in weapons, in my opinion, in more detail about the hypothetical missile defense / air defense system (neo -BMPT), I am a piss on one "highly specialized" site dedicated to armament, the organization of the Armed Forces, military art ... Now, on the VO, so as not to "spread thought on the tree", I "focused" only on the functions of a hypothetical neo-BMPT - protecting tanks from PT- rockets
            1. Bratkov Oleg
              Bratkov Oleg 5 June 2018 19: 45
              0
              There are not so many shells in the tank. Yes, they have a lot of power, but shooting at every suspicious bush is not profitable. And here is a tank with a small-caliber gun, which has a lot of ammunition! In fact, two tanks with different fire weapons. So in the USSR destroyers did, one air defense, the second anti-submarine ...
          2. Manul
            Manul 5 June 2018 20: 19
            +3
            Quote: venik
            forgot about another BMPT function !!! Namely - the air defense of tank columns ... Formally, this function is performed by "Shilka", "Tunguska" and tracked "Armor" (the latter, by the way, very good!), And also BMP .... BUT! And those and others and the third and fourth - they have only light “bulletproof” armor ... And that means they simply cannot act in the “first line” !! Yes, the "Shell" and from the "second line" can get a helicopter or attack aircraft (if it rises to the "proper height", of course) .... BUT! (again) - in the "FIRST LINE" of the attack they can’t act !!!

            A true remark, but something in the conflicts of recent years I can’t remember that the AN-64 defenselessly shot down tanks - the first only shy away from ravines at night. And what kind of attack helicopter over the past decades on the battlefield in daylight "jumped" into battle formations with tanks? Do not remind? But how many tanks are burning from ATGMs and grenade launchers is easy to calculate. Almost everything. So the BMPT should be sharpened precisely to counter manpower.
      2. Alex_Rarog
        Alex_Rarog 4 June 2018 18: 37
        +8
        I would like as a person who saw "THIS MONSTER" live in work, even at the training ground, I would definitely say that such a machine is needed ... it doesn’t matter on which platform if it’s even better on Armata!) If there’s a bomb !!!
    2. Dart2027
      Dart2027 4 June 2018 06: 09
      +6
      Quote: svp67
      Syria really showed that such a machine is NEEDED in a moderate-intensity armed conflict

      Not just Syria. Even in Afghanistan, Shilka was actively used, which in general was air defense and was originally intended only for the fight against aviation, so their need is obvious.
    3. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 4 June 2018 06: 56
      +7
      Hello, Sergey! hi
      Quote: svp67
      ZSU "Shilka"

      Took off the tongue. And in this light, the author’s assumption about replacing two 30-k with one 57 mm gun looks ridiculous. However, as well as the conclusion about the insufficiency of 4 ATGMs on the battlefield, the author forgot to see how BMPT is deciphered. hi
      1. seos
        seos 4 June 2018 08: 39
        +11
        The BMPT weapon system is not effective - its effectiveness is at the BMP-2 level
        BMPT-2 guns: 1st loaded with HE shells, 2nd BBZT
        In BMP-2 1 gun with selective power ...
        57 mm gun has much higher efficiency + work on air targets at a distance of 3 times further than 30 mm gun ...
        Moreover, the article does not indicate other disadvantages of BMPT:
        1) A crew of 5 people is a kind of modern version of the T-35 concept - this is a big drawback, modern development involves reducing crews (when creating Armata, a crew of 2 people was worked out)
        2) Weakness of weapons against enemy armored vehicles - Attack-T does not penetrate the frontal armor of modern tanks, moreover, KAZ is now massively appearing that was created to fight ATGMs.
        3) The creator of the BMPT in his replicated interview said that in a duel, the BMPT would easily overwhelm the T-14 Armata .... fool I wouldn’t even trust such a specialist to clean the toilet, not to create armored vehicles ...
        1. san4es
          san4es 4 June 2018 10: 48
          +10
          Quote: seos
          ... 57 mm gun has much higher efficiency + work on air targets at a distance of 3 times further than 30 mm gun ...

          hi ... The near future (I hope)
          Prospects: BMPT “Terminator-3”: However, recently information has appeared on the development of a new Russian machine, which is unofficially called “Terminator-3”. They plan to execute it on the basis of the universal Armata platform and arm it with the latest AU-220M combat module. He is the main "highlight" of the new car. It includes a 57-mm gun, which was developed for light warships. The gun has a rate of 300 rounds per minute and can hit targets at distances up to 12 km. That is, the new BMPT will be able to destroy all types of air and ground targets, without even entering the zone of their return fire.
          The 57-mm gun of the module pierces 100-mm armor at a distance of four kilometers, and an ordinary panel building is stitched through at a distance of 4,5 km. It is likely that this module will be equipped with anti-tank missile launchers, but there is no specific information about them yet. Based on the known characteristics of the combat module, it can be said that Terminator-3 will be able to effectively cover its own infantry and tanks at distances 1,5-2 times greater than the effective range of the Bradley BMP and the Stryker armored personnel carrier. soldier
          https://militaryarms.ru/voennaya-texnika/boevye-m
          ashiny / terminator /
          1. Stiletto_711
            Stiletto_711 4 June 2018 22: 07
            0
            Quote: san4es
            Prospects: BMPT "Terminator-3"


            This is not "Terminator 3", but TBMP T-15 with a promising combat module "Age" hi
            1. san4es
              san4es 5 June 2018 06: 54
              +2
              Quote: Stilett_71
              ... This is not "Terminator 3", but TBM T-15 with the promising combat module "Age" hi

              hi ... So be it ... In any case, neither Terminator 3 nor BM Epoch 57 mm., While the current prospects. And the basic version of the Epoch module is equipped with a 30mm 2A42 automatic gun, standard for Russian light armored vehicles.

              ... but BM Baikal AU-220M is already working
        2. Alex_Rarog
          Alex_Rarog 4 June 2018 18: 43
          +1
          Eeeeeh point number 3 and your comment to him did not specify whether the designer in what perspectives and conditions can be considered a battle with the T-14?)))
          1. seos
            seos 4 June 2018 20: 01
            0
            The article is called "Confession of the creator of" Terminator "" - found on many sites ...
        3. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 4 June 2018 18: 59
          +2
          Quote: seos
          57 mm gun has much higher efficiency + work on air targets at a distance of 3 times further than 30 mm gun ...

          What does the distance have to do with it? belay The key word is FIRMWARE. Two guns have a higher rate of fire than one. It is because of the rate of fire that Shilka is in demand.
          Quote: seos
          -Attack-T does not penetrate the frontal armor of modern tanks

          800mm? belay Of course, I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth, but according to TXT, the attack is somewhere in the vicinity of the TXT TOU 2, and everyone knows what TOU does with the Leopards and Abrams.
          Quote: seos
          The creator of BMPT in his replicated interview said that in a duel match BMPT without problems will flood T-14 Armata ..

          Pontov has not been canceled. request Moreover, until the opposite is proved, this show off by the creator of BMPT is considered real. hi
          1. seos
            seos 4 June 2018 20: 14
            +1
            What does the distance have to do with it? belay The keyword is FIRM. Two guns have a higher rate of fire than one. It is because of the rate of fire that Shilka is in demand.

            1) In automatic guns, firepower is estimated in the mass of a second volley, so I think if you count then 57 mm will win by this parameter + by the total mass of ammunition ...
            2) Ammunition 57 mm more diverse and more powerful: there are armor-piercing with armor penetration of the order of 120 mm per 1000 m, there is a remote detonation (imba against infantry and helicopters), it is possible to finish controlled, etc. ...
            800mm? belay I certainly do not claim to be the ultimate truth, but according to TXT the attack is somewhere in the vicinity of TXT TOU 2, and everyone knows what TOU does with the Leopards and Abrams.
            Abrams has a chance to punch into the forehead of the hull (there is an equivalent of about 800mm), against the Leopard and the T-90 (with DZ) it will not roll .... only on board. In a duel situation, the tank will knock out BMPT without any problems.
            Pontov has not been canceled. request Moreover, until the opposite is proved, this show off by the creator of BMPT is considered real. hi

            That’s exactly what stupid show-offs KAZ will protect from Attack, but BMPT will not get to a distance of 30 mm guns ... all the more, the power of 30 mm ammunition does not allow to penetrate tank armor ... it’ll break a maximum cover and break sights with radars ...
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 4 June 2018 21: 21
              +2
              Quote: seos
              in the mass of a second volley,

              You are again about the mass. There is a jacquin, and there is a buckshot, there is a fraction. And each charge has its own goals. wink Suppression fire at Shilka and BMPT is more effective than at the 57th automatic gun. 30 BMPTs have a higher rate of fire, and against tank infantry this is a key point.
              Quote: seos
              In a duel situation, the tank will knock out BMPT without any problems.

              You understand - BMPT is not considered as opposed to a tank, it is positioned as .... see abbreviation.
              Quote: seos
              KAZ will protect against attack

              And there were tests with the participation of Afghanistan and Attacks? belay Then what are the allegations?
              Quote: seos
              and at a distance of 30 mm BMPT guns will not get

              This is a general BMPT concept not planned. hi
              1. seos
                seos 4 June 2018 23: 31
                +1
                Suppression fire at Shilka and BMPT is more effective than at the 57th automatic gun.

                BMPT suppression fire = BMP-2 suppression fire same gun ...
                See the scheme of the guns on the BMPT - there is tape power and each gun fires its own type of shells ... 1st BT, 2nd RP
                AGS - term papers with a limited lesion area ... and I think the accuracy there is not normal ... judging by the pictures of the mechanism ... by the way, on some modifications of the BMP-2 on the AGS tower it’s installed - it will have higher efficiency, but in general for infantry suppression weapons BMP-3 was created (originally planned to put on BMPT)
                Well, it will suppress 30 seconds, and then it will drive away for several hours ....
                A 57 cannon has a projectile with an air blast ... on the Internet there are shots of a NATO 57 mm projectile as it delivers a boat into dust in one shot ... that is, such weapons do not suppress infantry, but destroy it ....
      2. venik
        venik 4 June 2018 21: 19
        0
        Yes, you will already have 2 inches of fault! Great thing! And if there is also (in addition to shells with remote detonation on the trajectory), correctable shells (such as Kitolov and Krasnopol) that will be developed (as promised), then there’s a “pipe”! Helicopters and close (at 8-10 km) will not be able to fly !!! No MANPADS are needed! And you got it all done. "in vain and in vain","ridiculous"........
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 4 June 2018 21: 25
          +1
          Quote: venik
          Yes, you will have to blame for 2 inches !!!

          And no one hait, read carefully. Two 30s against infantry in urban battles will be much more effective than one 57mm. And turntables do not hurt themselves in battle places with the possibility of using MANPADS.
    4. Per se.
      Per se. 4 June 2018 07: 03
      +8
      Quote: svp67
      in an armed conflict of medium intensity, such a machine is NEEDED
      Marshal of armored troops, Oleg Aleksandrovich Losik, in his scientific works spoke about the need for such machines on the battlefield. If our military hang on old regulations and dogmas, then, nevertheless, they imagine a "heavy BMP". However, if you think it was BMPT and a heavy BTR on a single tank base that would be the best solution. The BMPT would directly take on specialized fire support, and a heavy BTR transport function, such a division, in essence, creates what could become a tandem solution instead of a “heavy BMP”, a machine that loses the maneuverability and versatility of a classic BMP and loses specialization on the fire component and the general protection of BMPT, and on the transport heavy armored personnel carrier. A bunch of BMPT and heavy armored personnel carriers on a tank base allows you to get a tandem "heavy BMP", with the ability to use a single tank base, including using the old tank chassis for alterations. The BMPT and the heavy armored personnel carrier are not an alternative to the classic infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, but an addition that is needed directly to support their tanks. Here, speaking of heavy armored personnel carriers, it should be noted that in this capacity it is a combat vehicle, the main task of which should be the delivery of an assault group, and not the general transportation of infantry. In this capacity, the number of paratroopers should be within the 6 man, which will better protect such an BTR, make it smaller, increase the comfort of the landing and reduce the time it is dismounted from the vehicle. In addition, the defeat of such a heavy BTR with unmounted paratroopers minimizes losses, compared with the same "heavy BMP" type T-15, where the crew in the car will be 12 people, with huge dimensions expensive and complex machines. Speaking of a heavy BTR-based T-72 / T-90, the basis could be a modified BMO-T.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 4 June 2018 11: 43
        +4
        The adoption of the BMPT - due to two points.
        1) The crisis of the classic tank warfare (which is very, very anti-tank and very poorly adapted for operations in cities, mountains and other cramped areas where the tank doesn’t seem to have to fight, but you have to fight in it)
        2) “Crash” of the universal platform “armata” (you can throw slippers at me, but this is so. By the way, for the reasons for the crash, I tend to blame the Tag-anti-tank approach to the design of the PLATFORM) The latter was supposed to show the world a kind of universal pair of heavy infantry fighting vehicles, combining the functions and weapons of BMPT (in the absence of a better term) and the possibility of a heavy armored personnel carrier. and the super-duper invulnerable destructive tank destroyer.
        But, what happened happened. Armata is being worked out and tested, and the MO, as I understand it, has no full confidence in the successful outcome of the tests. So they are working on a fallback in the form of the holy trinity t-90 (t-72), BMOT and BMPT.
        1. svp67
          svp67 4 June 2018 12: 07
          +5
          Quote: tchoni
          Crash of the Armata universal platform

          What kind of collapse are you talking about? "Armata" is and will be, but it will not be so much, it is really very HEAVY, of course, the basis of the BTV will first be created by the masses of the "base chassis" or "universal platforms" of the T-90, and then "without pilot objects," which is not excludes again the mass use of BSh T-90.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 4 June 2018 19: 55
            0
            Quote: svp67
            "Armata" is and will be, but it will not be so much, it is really very HEAVY, oh

            Right VERY HEAVY. a couple of tons heavier than t90. And that yes, "there is and will be," then, yes, about the same as the t-35 in the USSR army before the war.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 4 June 2018 12: 30
          +4
          Quote: tchoni
          Crash of the Armata universal platform

          Really? Direct crash? Name something that is at least approximate in the West to the concept of the Armata platform. What kind of crash are you talking about? This platform is being dopped, completed, which takes a dumb time. The same T-14 is not a tank in the conventional sense, but a robot tank. What does the closest of all prototypes in the world to serial production.
          What kind of combat module will be delivered, this platform will become. The same Baikal module, or Epoch, will also be developed, modernized or simply replaced with new developed modules, taking into account new tasks, threats and arsenal.
          When the first BMPs were created in the USSR, very few people understood what they were and where to use them.
          Quote: tchoni
          But, what happened happened. Armata is being worked out and tested, and the MO, as I understand it, has no full confidence in the successful outcome of the tests.

          What a fright? There are MO requirements for this platform, and the developer, testing the platform, comes to these very requirements. At the same time, the factor of using armored vehicles in Syria is taken into account on-line. This year, the party will go to the party T-14 (possibly T-15) for military trials. If any shortcomings are identified or additional military requirements for this platform appear, it will be finalized and adopted.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 4 June 2018 20: 03
            +1
            Quote: NEXUS
            Name something that is at least approximate in the West to the concept of the Armata platform.

            What about the concept, let me ask? and what does this concept give? How is the T14 fundamentally different in terms of combat properties from the latest versions of the t-90? And do not la la about the isolated placement of the crew. This joke is not new (there was nir “motoball”, there is a placement of ammunition in a tower niche) And there is no need for a robot tank. They filmed a movie about it back in '96 - the truth is that the usual T-72 appeared there.
            And sho before the Syrian experience and its accounting, so such goodness at least heaps of our own. Afghanistan, Chechnya ... What, all without experience ?! Following the Chechen footsteps, they blinded the "black eagle" and ruined it as "having no significant advantages over serial samples." What do you think, gangs in Syria are fundamentally different from Chechen gangs?
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 4 June 2018 20: 17
              +2
              Quote: tchoni
              How is the T14 fundamentally different in terms of combat properties from the latest versions of the t-90?

              Placing the crew in a separate armored capsule is probably the idea itself and is not new, but so far only we have been able to realize it. Second, this is a cannon. Third, this is KAZ and the armor itself. Armata is different from the T-90 and Abrasha, like an armored personnel carrier from a tank. What about a robot tank ... again, is there anything close to the series in the West? And the last, Armata, is a platform, when replacing the combat modules of which, it can be anything, in 26 modifications. Now tell me about Abrams (junk of the 70s). As for the T-90, I didn’t say so, that with the launch of the T-14 in the series, the T-90 will cease to produce.
              Regarding the Terminator ... I repeat, I am sure that the combat module of this BMPT will be changed more than once, but at the same time, the concept is important, about which they spoke only in the Russian Federation.
              1. tchoni
                tchoni 5 June 2018 08: 19
                -1
                But sho, if you put the same KAZ (or at least the old arena) on the t90, a dz, a gun (they were going to put it there, by the way) and remembering the "motor-ball" that had died in the Bose, changed the AZ, thereby isolating the crew from the ammunition (in the abrash By the way, he is already isolated ... and the KAZ of the Jewish model, estati, they put the same thing,). Much cheaper will succeed? In addition, this FSE can be done with the good old T72. And do not sculpt a garden with an incomprehensible karatitsa for completely indecent money. And so - yes, even the armature will be accepted. Like the t-35 at one time. It was painfully publicized.
                But, your opinion is your opinion.
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 4 June 2018 14: 06
          +3
          Quote: tchoni
          The adoption of the BMPT - due to two points.

          Two. But others:
          1. The traditional inability to establish interaction between infantry, tanks and artillery, even at the battalion level. Because all the tasks of the BMPT are blocked by regular and attached fire weapons.
          2. The traditional lack of active bayonets, which, according to the charter, should cover the tank and provide it with a central control unit. With platoons of motorized riflemen of 20-25 people, the tankers willy-nilly needed at least some means of covering the tanks.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 4 June 2018 15: 25
            +5
            Quote: Alexey RA
            The traditional lack of active bayonets, which, according to the charter, should cover the tank and provide it with a central control unit. With platoons of motorized riflemen of 20-25 people, the tankers willy-nilly needed at least some means of covering the tanks.

            C'mon))) Do you think the BMPT will support tanks instead of infantry whenever? - I belittle you))) - an incorrigible romantic. This device will replace the tank in urban areas and I thank him very much for that.
            1. Grazdanin
              Grazdanin 5 June 2018 01: 09
              +1
              Quote: tchoni
              Quote: Alexey RA
              The traditional lack of active bayonets, which, according to the charter, should cover the tank and provide it with a central control unit. With platoons of motorized riflemen of 20-25 people, the tankers willy-nilly needed at least some means of covering the tanks.

              C'mon))) Do you think the BMPT will support tanks instead of infantry whenever? - I belittle you))) - an incorrigible romantic. This device will replace the tank in urban areas and I thank him very much for that.

              Already replaced in the same Syria. True shilka. There is a pair of tanks with shilka, the tank hits the bunker, shilka on the upper floors, after consumption Bk they are changed.
        4. cariperpaint
          cariperpaint 4 June 2018 14: 14
          +3
          Lord .. What a game ... Analytics at the kindergarten level .. Do you really think that if old cars are modernized, then new ones are covered? They have said hundreds of times how much they discussed. The saturation of this platform of the army is a matter for a couple of decades. Even if you rivet a hundred a year, then building 2000 of these new platforms is 20 years old. And what should you do this time? Blow bubbles? Or use the old technology with new performance characteristics? as for trials and the holy trinity. This is not a fallback, but a change in the concept of tank combat as such. The structure of the tank units with these vehicles is still not clear. The regular structure of the mouth, etc. with these machines what? Quantity, tactics of application. Now that the armature that the t90, etc. how to apply them and where to put few people understand. This is a lot of work. This is a change in personnel training. This is a completely new knowledge for everyone from platoon commanders to ... And taking now bmpt even on these chassis can fill all these gaps.
          1. tchoni
            tchoni 4 June 2018 20: 05
            0
            Did you hear yourself that you are singing, are you our capercaillie? Yes, any tank factory 1000 cars a year - this is only one shift to take.
            1. cariperpaint
              cariperpaint 4 June 2018 20: 14
              +2
              C'mon?))) Right on 1000 per year?))) One model? With all its electronics that will be delivered in such quantities? With all export orders and other machines? Straight for 1000?))) Why then deliveries to the troops of equipment are in batches of 40 pieces ... A riddle ... and not even every month ... It can be seen that the Estonians were put into the workshop ... My cant, I did not guess right away)))
              1. tchoni
                tchoni 5 June 2018 08: 21
                0
                Quote: cariperpaint
                Straight for 1000?))) Why then deliveries to the troops of equipment go in batches of 40 pieces ...

                They don’t want to pay for patam in ML for more. they have no more.
            2. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 5 June 2018 09: 49
              +2
              Quote: tchoni
              Yes, any tank factory 1000 cars a year - this is only one shift to take.

              Pomintsta, UVZ complained that for the release of 180-200 T-72B3 a year, it was necessary to switch to two-shift work (and in some workshops to three-shift).
        5. venik
          venik 4 June 2018 21: 23
          +1
          Quote: tchoni
          But, what happened happened. Armata is being worked out and tested, and the MO, as I understand it, has no full confidence in the successful outcome of the tests.

          ============
          Well, with this statement and "you can argue" .... But with everyone else - ONLY AGREE !!! good
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 4 June 2018 12: 05
        +4
        In my opinion, a BMPT machine is necessary, but not very implemented in this version of UVZ.
        If I don’t confuse, then they started talking about creating such a machine again after the first assault on Grozny. The tank for battle in the city is not very adapted: he can see far, but he needs to know where to look, only the commander can look around, and there is no way at all to see what he faces from the upper floor.
        Therefore, at the BMPT competition, cars were presented with eyes in all directions, and the ability to fire at once for several purposes. The crew of five people. Five pairs of eyes look in different directions and each has its own weapons. To say that 5 people in BMPT is bad, in my opinion, is not far-sighted. Well, imagine these five people in body armor, armed with assault rifles that accompany the tank with a pyom to cover it. Will it be better? Or are these five behind armor and with much more powerful weapons?
        By the way, at the BMPT contest, the military liked the Chelyabinsk double-turret (with a 30mm caliber) option most of all.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 4 June 2018 12: 10
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          most liked the military

        2. ser56
          ser56 4 June 2018 17: 15
          0
          Quote: Bad_gr
          A tank for battle in the city is not very adapted: it can see far, but it needs to know where to look, only the commander can look around, and there is no way at all to see what threatens him from the upper floor.

          the development of technology allows us to solve this problem in a different way - we output a signal from 1-2 monitors installed in a circle of TV cameras, in addition, we introduce signal processing to identify threats - the faces of people in the crowd already determine ... and a crew of 5 people really a lot of...
        3. venik
          venik 4 June 2018 21: 26
          +2
          Quote: Bad_gr
          By the way, at the BMPT contest, the military liked the Chelyabinsk double-turret (with a 30mm caliber) option most of all.

          ====
          Where are the "woods" ???? Namesake, reset, a reference please !!!! O_CH_CHEN cool and interesting machine !!!!!!! good
          And "about the tank in the city" - so it’s completely "uncomfortable" for him - you can shoot at the upper floors only from a machine gun tower .......
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 5 June 2018 01: 15
            +1
            Quote: venik
            ..... Where are the "woods" ????

            I won’t give a reference (I didn’t save it), I remember that this is from the history of the BMPT.
            Two-tower - this is Object 781 - option = A =. I also liked the version with weapons from the BMP-3 (Object 782), only the tower is more armored.
          2. san4es
            san4es 5 June 2018 07: 15
            +2
            Quote: venik
            ... Where did the "woods" come from? ..


            http://pcnews.ru/top/news/day/uralvagonzavod_poka
            zal_prototip_terminatora-770467.html
            - follow the link

            https://armyman.info/bronetehnika/bronemashiny/35
            525-proekty-boevyh-mashin-podderzhki-tankov-obekt
            -781.html
            - find in Yandex
            hi
            1. venik
              venik 5 June 2018 08: 16
              +1
              Thank you! soldier
    5. zxc15682
      zxc15682 4 June 2018 12: 03
      0
      Tanks have long guns for urban combat.
      1. ALEXXX1983
        ALEXXX1983 9 June 2018 14: 20
        0
        Quote: zxc15682
        Tanks have long guns for urban combat.

        There is a place to be, but a much bigger problem is the small angles of vertical aiming.
    6. Abel
      Abel 4 June 2018 22: 51
      +1
      Quote: svp67
      It remains to understand in what armed conflicts Russia may be involved

      And at least in Ukraine. And in general, if the tank is redundant in some cases, then the BMPT may be just right. For each battle, your selection
  2. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 4 June 2018 06: 58
    0
    Due to the fact that it is possible to criticize any type of equipment, or weapon, will we give up everything? ?? There is a concept of sufficient sufficiency, it follows that the technique is good until the opposite was proved in battle! We’ll test the Terminators in the Donbass, and if used correctly, we’ll understand that the army really needs this technique! Syria showed the same thing, it’s simple and we have a lobby breaking through the Armata project and literally almost ultimatum requiring all the other developments to be simply closed! That is the whole problem.
  3. zoolu350
    zoolu350 4 June 2018 07: 47
    +1
    And what we have as a result. BMPT is nedotank and nedoBMP and "why goat button accordion" which is superfluous? It would be better to remake 72ki in TBMP or TBTR.
    1. venik
      venik 5 June 2018 08: 24
      0
      Quote: zoolu350
      And what we have as a result. BMPT is nedotank and nedoBMP and "why goat button accordion" which is superfluous?

      =========
      Exactly!!! About just such expressions Marshal Kulik (there was such a "figure" of not too big mind ", headed the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army)" welcomed "the BM-13 Katyusha installation !!!!! fool
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 5 June 2018 10: 40
        +2
        Quote: venik
        Exactly!!! It was about these expressions that Marshal Kulik (there was such a "figure" of not too much mind ", headed the Main Artillery Directorate of the Red Army)" welcomed "the BM-13 Katyusha installation !!!!!

        EMNIP, Kulik didn’t hack a BM-13, but its previous version, which was distinguished by a short firing range and huge dispersion. As soon as the design bureau issued an installation that was able to pass the tests, Kulik immediately signed a decision on urgent production of the machine in series.
        You see what’s the matter ... we know about Kulik for the most part from the recollections of designers and production workers. Which was why you shouldn’t love a man who broke the harmonious scheme of the 30s, when initially raw samples of equipment were adopted, then their quality fell additionally during mass production - and the army received slag that had been brought over the years.
        You don’t have to go far for examples: F-22 of Comrade Grabin. The gun initially had a structurally unfinished cartridge extraction mechanism, which did not work with “wartime” shots (the so-called “French” shots). But it was adopted, despite the fact that in a real battle when using it as an anti-tank gun (according to the Charter), punching a sleeve through the barrel meant death to the crew. The refinement of this gun resulted in the creation of a virtually new system - SPM.
        But there was still a recreation center - in a refinement from 1931 to 1938. There was a DP-27 - brought up to 1944. There was a BT, which was brought only to the BT-7 version.
        With the advent of Kulik, adoption was not required to overwhelm state tests. And in the process of mass production, Kulik did not hesitate to stop the acceptance of weapons if the plant did not respond to requirements to eliminate the shortcomings. This, as you know, did not add love from the military-industrial complex to him. So accusations like "poured on Kulik:"Samodur and the volunteer dared to stop receiving the legendary T-34 - the best tank of war!"At the same time, it was modestly silent that the acceptance was stopped because the plant did not correct any of the shortcomings identified during the tests of serial tanks and their military operation - such as the location of observation devices over the breech of the gun or structurally unusable main clutch.
  4. avt
    avt 4 June 2018 08: 10
    +2
    The future issue
    Everything will be ha-ra-sho! Quietly this misunderstanding is pushed as a result of tests, again they will sell it to someone, like the Kazakhs. For trade, it’s good that the type is in service. And finally, I’ll do something more intelligible based on the results of real city battles and in the mountains on the basis of Bahchi, but with Nona and well armored. As an object 782 ,, mountain tank ". I am afraid of one thing - this notorious Terminator" shoved Rogozin, about which he actually broadcast when he assumed the post of deputy prime minister, I sell it to my beloved, so we can still see how he tramped him to the near-earth will orbit.
    1. Volodya Nigmetov
      Volodya Nigmetov 4 June 2018 14: 29
      0
      everything can be My opinion the car is necessary In fact, this is what the militants do only at the modern technical level. They put the shilka on the pickup and drive along the front, not really afraid that they don’t have armor. But it’s always fast and powerful and in the right place. And this carriage them are very popular weapons As they say there are questions? In general, you need an option such as a pickup truck or a wheel carrier with wheels even faster. If you want a tachanka with a maxim, too, because there was no armor, however, it did. Generally ask those who fought if they needed this in battle? I think the answer is clear
      1. parma
        parma 4 June 2018 14: 38
        +1
        They do this for the lack of better - give even the ATS sufficient BMP-2 and resources for servicing and such ersatz will disappear from their use ... Or do you want to say that in the back of a pickup truck (in my opinion, I don’t remember exactly) barmels they put a tower from the BMP-1 with the help of everyone knows what and sticks, because they do not like the native BMP building?
      2. avt
        avt 4 June 2018 21: 06
        +5
        Quote: Volodya Nigmetov
        My opinion is the right car

        We need a machine that can work like a howitzer / mortar, or just throw at least 100 matches from the serpentine. Well, and a 30-mm machine gun, so as not to waste shells on trifles. And mounted ATGMs will fly off in the city at once and in different directions not for the purpose. So it’s better to go through the barrel, but it would be nice to have a regular one from a tank gun. So no less than 120 mm is needed, and not this “terminator” misunderstanding, about which the creators themselves said, yes, they need bigger guns. For now, they’re dreaming 57mm, but you’ll look at Bahchi, too.
        1. max702
          max702 13 June 2018 12: 05
          0
          Everything was invented long ago ..
  5. 23rus
    23rus 4 June 2018 08: 19
    +2
    Conflicts in the cramped conditions of the city and rough terrain indicate the "not hopelessness" of this design. Replacing the main caliber barrel with quick-firing guns is economically and strategically justified, because it is able to respond more quickly and increases the area of ​​damage. The result was a sort of "Swiss" knife. wink
    1. John22
      John22 4 June 2018 10: 15
      +1
      I agree completely. It is for conditions where the review is limited and BMPT is needed. And 5 pairs of eyes are more effective than 3 in a tank. And 4 of them have an individual means of influencing the enemy. reduced reaction time to the use of weapons. The interaction of tanks and infantry is a classic, but hacking behind a tank looking underfoot and on the sides is not easy work. A complex interaction of BM will increase the effectiveness of their use.
      1. seos
        seos 4 June 2018 11: 25
        +1
        Not a bunch of eyes looking into holes, but the concept of a transparent cabin, with the implementation of which we have a complete bummer .... even in China, BMP-1 has LCD screens of circular viewing and not meager like on Armata and Kurganets, but full-fledged 15 "-19 "HD screens with high-definition cameras ...
  6. garri-lin
    garri-lin 4 June 2018 08: 46
    +3
    The concept is true, but the incarnation is nowhere below. The terminator turned out to be ersatz.
    You need at least 3 independent weapons channels. Need drones. Universal rockets with vertical launch. We need an all-perspective KAZ.
  7. VictorZhivilov
    VictorZhivilov 4 June 2018 09: 31
    0
    It’s time to send this BMPT to foreign markets, and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will need a complex like Uran-9. smile
    https://topwar.ru/111354-uran-9-i-arcv-black-knig
    ht-conceptualnye-razlichiya-v-sozdanii-bespilotny
    h-sredstv-ognevoy-podderzhki-voysk.html
  8. Smol79
    Smol79 4 June 2018 09: 33
    +1
    57 mm let them set and will solve all problems and will not be afraid of tanks
  9. akunin
    akunin 4 June 2018 09: 44
    0
    not a specialist, I might say sedition, but can I replace the “terminator” with drones like “uranium” 9? I suspect that they are much cheaper than the “terminator”. with more of them, firepower will increase.
  10. parma
    parma 4 June 2018 10: 03
    +1
    There are a lot of questions on the terminator ... And the whole car is controversial ...
    In my opinion:
    In conflicts of low intensity, this is necessary, since the battles often have a semi-partisan character (with us, with the Americans, Syria) and infantry, as a rule, lack firepower ... But you can’t attach a “terminator” to each patrol and checkpoint ...
    In case of a major military conflict (again, in my opinion) the car is not really needed, because they go along with infantry and infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers, as a result of firepower there should be enough ..
    Therefore, in my opinion, it is necessary for the BMPT specifically, and firstly, you need to work at a tactical level (so that the patrol / checkpoint can get support from helicopters or, say, quick response groups with short-term contact), and secondly, to increase the firepower of these very small groups ( let's say trucks, tigers, etc. provide more rapid-fire weapons like a gatling + petr system and light armor, which would crush reinforcements at the time of approach) ... And a special machine is a waste of money, they will not be at hand at the right time as always. .
  11. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD 4 June 2018 11: 02
    +2
    Deficiencies and advantages can be found in a variety of any model of military hardware and equipment - and the number of one or the other will prevail depending on the views of the seeker. To give at least some kind of objectivity, polygon tests, running in the troops, and the use of experimental samples by individual units in exercises are used. Well, the peak of the assessment - of course, the use of technology on the battlefield. The Terminator passed this highest level of testing, and therefore is more than viable and useful in army units. An indirect confirmation of this is the increased interest in this type of combat vehicles from foreign customers. In the foregoing, of course, the foregoing does not exclude the consistent and constant modernization of adopted equipment, depending on the requirements of the current moment and the fullness of the customer’s wallet.
    1. parma
      parma 4 June 2018 11: 12
      +2
      But there are different tests in battle ... For example, in Syria, local soldiers are certainly very pleased with him - they have an elementary shortage of carriers of small-caliber guns (BTR-80 / 82a and BMP-2 are few), so they are forced to attract carriers and ersatz carriers with ZPU (they even remake command vehicles, floating equipment and repair equipment in armored personnel carriers), and there are almost no tank battles and attacks, which means you cannot use BMPT for its intended purpose ...
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD 4 June 2018 11: 17
        +2
        The Syrians are certainly glad of everything that can reach somewhere (fly) and destroy the enemy. But only the tested new samples and their effectiveness are not evaluated and defective by the Syrians, and often are not used by them ..
  12. san4es
    san4es 4 June 2018 11: 12
    +1
    However, the tower of this armored car, in all likelihood, seriously loses in terms of security to the hull.

    ... Is it better?

    First BMPT: Object 787 "Viper"
    The most serious changes in the new project underwent a fighting compartment. Actually, only the armored dome of the turret, the turret basket, and horizontal guidance drives remained. The main 125-mm gun was removed, and its embrasure was sealed with a protected cap. On the sides of the hull large protruding box-shaped housings appeared, inside which the new armament was to be placed. These units were made of armor steel and were additionally covered with dynamic protection units. A large armored box was installed at the stern of the turret, which served as the ammunition of the guns. With the help of a simple system of guides, which had in its composition a pair of rigid tunnels, the tape with projectiles was to be supplied to the side units with weapons. hi
    1. Siberia 9444
      Siberia 9444 4 June 2018 14: 13
      0
      Cool piece of iron hi good
  13. alstr
    alstr 4 June 2018 11: 17
    +3
    From my point of view, this should not be about a machine as such, but a combat module (preferably remote). Moreover, such a module should be placed (with minor modifications) on any domestic armored vehicles.
    In addition, you need to understand that the Terminator is not a tank, but a means of combating infantry. Therefore, the task of fighting tanks is not the main task of the Terminator. Therefore, 4 shots is enough.
    But on the topic of the review, I agree with the author. It should be much better than in a tank.
    Here, a pair of drones (small) for reconnaissance will definitely not hurt here.
    1. Volos
      Volos 4 June 2018 22: 16
      0
      drones are expensive, but a telescopic or folding boom of 8-10 meters with observation devices and a remote machine gun mount is a very budgetary mechanism.
  14. demiurg
    demiurg 4 June 2018 12: 44
    +10
    Instead of increasing the security of the BMP-1 and BMP-2, or remaking the old T-72 and T-80 into TBMP, an absolutely incomprehensible technique is introduced.
    1. The fact that this machine showed good results in Syria, so excuse me, the security of the terminator is the best of all that is now fighting in Syria. This is not the dignity of the terminator, it is the drawback of the available equipment on the theater. Were there massively T-72 fresh modifications and at least BMP-3, no one would have noticed
    2. About the channel. AGS are term papers, they do not protect side projections. The guns are deprived of selective power, even when fired in one gulp, every second shell will only create noise. Only four guided missiles, in fact all will be cumulative, that is, there will be nothing to break the bunker or basement into.
    And all five tankers are sitting in the same volume.

    And at the same time, almost tens of thousands of T-72 and T-80 disappear in warehouses, and an excellent module of carriages has been developed. The bank as a module is in no way inferior to the tower of the terminator: one gun, but with selective power, there is an AGS on a separate platform, with a 360-degree firing sector. It would seem that it’s easier, make of old TBMP machines with care, there is not enough ductwork, you can still mount a separate module.
    But instead, they try to upgrade the mass graves with gratings (without buoyancy, yes), and take the caterpillar miracle into service. Where is the logic?
    1. Oleg Tolstoy
      Oleg Tolstoy 4 June 2018 15: 20
      0
      ValeraAnd what is the capacity of the BMP-2 loaded "Berezhok"? Should an infantry fighting vehicle carry an infantry unit if I am not mistaken? And how many fighters can be loaded into the T-72, whose head will be replaced with a universal combat complex according to your patterns ?. How is it, by the way, with the capacity of old vehicles in which not Soviet soldiers are sitting in footcloths and warheads, but modern "super-soldiers" with all their armor plates, unloading and Kevlar helmets with night sights?
      1. demiurg
        demiurg 5 June 2018 03: 03
        0
        Judging by Ahzarit, 3 + 7 is classic. Given two channels, it would be better 4 + 6. Six external eyes of target indicators, a mechanical driver, a TO and two gunners.
        A BMP 1 and 2 in theory should be redone in the BTR non-floating, with increased security.
        1. svp67
          svp67 5 June 2018 04: 10
          0
          Quote: demiurg
          A BMP 1 and 2 in theory should be redone in the BTR non-floating, with increased security.

          The ability to swim is the biggest plus of this technique, but you want to deprive it ... How will you overcome the rivers? On the mined and blown up bridges?
          1. demiurg
            demiurg 5 June 2018 11: 54
            0
            Today the word modularity is fashionable. Additional armor can be made removable, and in several versions, while the suspension or soil is kept.
            And to fight on cardboard only because they are floating, as it is not comme il faut.
  15. vnord
    vnord 4 June 2018 12: 57
    0
    BMPT is a high-quality amplification machine. And she should not climb forward without cover. The main thing is to not be sent to a frontal attack. And so needed.
  16. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 4 June 2018 14: 55
    +7
    In the context of guided and artillery weapons, BMPTs are sometimes compared with modern main battle tanks, and this comparison is usually not in its favor. Thus, in the fight against armored vehicles, any serial domestic tank has the ability to "meet" the enemy with guided missiles, and after approaching a sufficient distance to use armor-piercing shells. In case of a collision with infantry or lightly armored vehicles, the tank has high-explosive fragmentation shots and machine guns.


    The whole problem is that what we used to call the "Main Battle Tank" is actually not a tank, but a self-propelled anti-tank artillery mount. Why do we need a 125, or even a 150 mm cannon, shooting along a flat trajectory to destroy enemy manpower, and lightly armored targets? Such a 120 mm projectile weighing 40 kg and costing $ 2000 hit an earthen caponier, at best sprayed with minced machine gun, but the rest of the infantry platoons, it will only lay its ears ... To the enemy located on the return slope, inside the capital building or on its roof, it won’t do anything at all, you need either an attack aircraft (attack helicopter), with a gigantic cost for combat use, or an assault company (with giant losses) What is now called a “tank” is capable of successfully fighting only with itself, that is with other tanks, and other unarmored and lightly armored self-propelled targets, because with his main weapon - a cannon, he can’t shoot at short distances with a low initial velocity of the shot and on a ballistic trajectory - knocking out infantry, anti-aircraft guns and ATGM calculations from closed positions .. That is why modern main tanks are hung with automatic grenade launchers and rockets, like a dog fleas - to compensate for the original concept a total drawback .. BMPT, as a matter of fact, brings history back to sleep with infantry tanks of the beginning of the last century, recalling the main purpose of armored forces - to seize positions, the goal of which without its own infantry and suppressing enemy infantry, could not be achieved either in the last century or in present .. Just a forced competition of armor and shell and tank skirmishes among themselves with a race in the thickness of armor and armor penetration led to this impasse ..

    The idea of ​​these BMPTs is good because, using standard chassis, they are equipped with combat units, of a modular design, in fact, in a short time you can get special-purpose vehicles or strengthen weaknesses in defense, such as air defense, or even get uninhabited "drones" ..

    But the disadvantage is that short-barreled howitzer guns (with a high elevation of the barrel and separate loading (in order to be able to flexibly control the projectile range), are the main weapons, BMPTs (the BMP abbreviation would be correct!) Would not even be considered!
  17. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 4 June 2018 15: 04
    +4
    Quote: parma
    But there are different tests in battle ... For example, in Syria, local soldiers are certainly very pleased with him - they have an elementary shortage of carriers of small-caliber guns (BTR-80 / 82a and BMP-2 are few), so they are forced to attract carriers and ersatz carriers with ZPU (they even remake command vehicles, floating equipment and repair equipment in armored personnel carriers), and there are almost no tank battles and attacks, which means you cannot use BMPT for its intended purpose ...



    BMPT is not needed for fighting with tanks! What for do you need a tank if someone else needs to protect it armored? This is how to build hyperlinks to protect Linkors ;-)
    The maximum that it should be able to fight back or fight off the protected infantry unit of its troops from a single tank, lightly armored wheeled target or an attacking helicopter ...
  18. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 4 June 2018 15: 26
    +2
    Quote: vnord
    BMPT is a high-quality amplification machine. And she should not climb forward without cover. The main thing is to not be sent to a frontal attack. And so needed.


    Yes, it should not .. And the "cover" of it is just good old and "simple as a broom" laughing a tank that, with direct visibility, looks after the ward a bit from the back + aviation surveillance and active defense equipment that look from above and slightly to the side bully
  19. moreman78
    moreman78 4 June 2018 15: 27
    0
    Quote: demiurg
    Instead of increasing the security of the BMP-1 and BMP-2, or remaking the old T-72 and T-80 into TBMP, an absolutely incomprehensible technique is introduced.
    1. The fact that this machine showed good results in Syria, so excuse me, the security of the terminator is the best of all that is now fighting in Syria. This is not the dignity of the terminator, it is the drawback of the available equipment on the theater. Were there massively T-72 fresh modifications and at least BMP-3, no one would have noticed
    2. About the channel. AGS are term papers, they do not protect side projections. The guns are deprived of selective power, even when fired in one gulp, every second shell will only create noise. Only four guided missiles, in fact all will be cumulative, that is, there will be nothing to break the bunker or basement into.
    And all five tankers are sitting in the same volume.
    The only adequate comment, plus
    And at the same time, almost tens of thousands of T-72 and T-80 disappear in warehouses, and an excellent module of carriages has been developed. The bank as a module is in no way inferior to the tower of the terminator: one gun, but with selective power, there is an AGS on a separate platform, with a 360-degree firing sector. It would seem that it’s easier, make of old TBMP machines with care, there is not enough ductwork, you can still mount a separate module.
    But instead, they try to upgrade the mass graves with gratings (without buoyancy, yes), and take the caterpillar miracle into service. Where is the logic?

    The most adequate comment, plus zelyu
  20. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 4 June 2018 15: 28
    0
    Quote: Oleg Tolstoy
    Quote: vnord
    BMPT is a high-quality amplification machine. And she should not climb forward without cover. The main thing is to not be sent to a frontal attack. And so needed.


    Yes, it should not .. And the "cover" of it is just good old and "simple as a broom" laughing a tank that, with direct visibility, looks after the ward a bit from behind + aviation surveillance and active defense equipment that look after the sverkhu and a little to the side bully


    Your call is just as reasonable as not sending foot infantry into a head-on attack ...
  21. Leonid Har
    Leonid Har 4 June 2018 15: 34
    0
    And if you equip them with a system of high-speed communications (interconnections) with tanks, infantry and + communications with reconnaissance drones? Will the ability to detect and suppress enemy firing points increase then?
  22. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 4 June 2018 15: 50
    0
    Quote: alstr
    From my point of view, this should not be about a machine as such, but a combat module (preferably remote). Moreover, such a module should be placed (with minor modifications) on any domestic armored vehicles.
    In addition, you need to understand that the Terminator is not a tank, but a means of combating infantry. Therefore, the task of fighting tanks is not the main task of the Terminator. Therefore, 4 shots is enough.
    But on the topic of the review, I agree with the author. It should be much better than in a tank.
    Here, a pair of drones (small) for reconnaissance will definitely not hurt here.


    Probably you can and should use everything that is at hand in a real war, in a sudden war .. But preparing for a future war, it’s supposedly not very competent and far-sighted to bet on a machine that will carry a good 7-10 extra tons of non-combat load , not?

    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    I already wrote in previous comments that we need a BMPPP (infantry fire support combat vehicle)! It can also perform the functions of BMPT ... therefore, it is quite possible to get by with a shorter abbreviation ... BMOS!


    In the old days, this very BMP was called simply, a tank, and in 1942, these vehicles were pretty slender even at that time, capable of firing main weapons at a flat and ballistic trajectory, as well as machine-gun weapons in 2-3 directions simultaneously , reached almost the eastern outskirts of Stalingrad ..

    When they want to solve a problem. they are looking for the most effective ways when they want to cut budgets, come up with new, original abbreviations and concepts .. Though you name the weight, the main thing is that the soup boils on time tongue lol
  23. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 4 June 2018 16: 21
    +1
    The car is new, finalized, the military will determine its place in the battle. And nonsense is easier to carry than a log. This is my opinion, I listen to others.
  24. Disorder
    Disorder 4 June 2018 18: 09
    0
    Each machine has its own function on the battlefield. How many do not hang on the BMP, BMPT does not work out. And her task is different - to transport and support infantry. Also, the tank can not be compared with BMPT. It is simply impossible to hang additional guns and ATGMs on it.
    BMPT copes with its task perfectly - it supports tanks. In World War II, this task was assigned to self-propelled guns, and in modern Syria it is performed by Shilki.
  25. Volos
    Volos 4 June 2018 21: 46
    0
    Perhaps the new family project will include a significant increase in firepower. So, a pair of 30-mm guns can be replaced with one automatic machine of 57 mm caliber.


    The BMPT is needed in the troops as a substitute for lightly armored infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers, and after the mass arrival of heavy heavy BMP T-15 Barberries with a 57 mm weapons module, the need for BMPT will disappear by itself.
  26. Volos
    Volos 4 June 2018 22: 56
    +4


    A heavy BMP based on the T-72 would be more suitable for the army, but with a landing compartment for 8-10 people, protected like a BMOT, aft hatch, and a Bahcha-M combat module, where 100 mm 2A70 was replaced by a 2A60 mortar gun with a caliber of 120 mm . like NONA-SVK.

    An angle of fire of 85 degrees will allow firing on the upper floors and on helicopters and mountain passes, the mortar gun will provide destruction of manpower in shelters and armored vehicles with both shells and guided mines. Ammunition for a 30 mm gun, as well as 60-70 shells and mines for 2A60 placed in a remotely controlled combat module.
    1. Oleg Tolstoy
      Oleg Tolstoy 5 June 2018 11: 31
      +1
      Quote: Volos


      A heavy BMP based on the T-72 would be more suitable for the army, but with a landing compartment for 8-10 people, protected like a BMOT, aft hatch, and a Bahcha-M combat module, where 100 mm 2A70 was replaced by a 2A60 mortar gun with a caliber of 120 mm . like NONA-SVK.

      An angle of fire of 85 degrees will allow firing on the upper floors and on helicopters and mountain passes, the mortar gun will provide destruction of manpower in shelters and armored vehicles with both shells and guided mines. Ammunition for a 30 mm gun, as well as 60-70 shells and mines for 2A60 placed in a remotely controlled combat module.


      There it is! in general combat - T-72, T-90 and Armata - (de facto anti-tank self-propelled guns during combat operations on the plain clear the terrain from enemy mobile vehicles and armored vehicles without entering the affected area, suppress artillery and air defense in open and half-closed positions a Bakhcha-M with 2A60 discovers infantry that is hiding in the defense line with earthen and dugout fortifications, on the edges of the forest, in urban areas and on the reverse slopes of hills ..

      You cannot even make repairs in an apartment today without a specialized tool ... If it is forgotten or ignored ,. "handyman wars" - infantry! It’s just that I don’t understand why, in this vehicle, under heavy armor, losing mobility and the ammunition load, it’s almost the detachment of infantry? .. For special forces, with highly specialized tasks in a semi-insurgent-terrorist war, that’s what the doctor ordered ... But what if the war is an unobtrusive, advertised adversary? Do you exclude her already?
  27. DimanC
    DimanC 5 June 2018 03: 32
    +2
    It seems that UVZ created BMPT on the principle of "what would wean this with the old T-72 building"? In a good way, the modern Russian army, built on the Armata platform, does not need a BMPT. Its functions are performed by the T-15, working in a single network T-14 - T-15 - Coalition. Only unlike BMPT also carries infantry. Therefore, it is not surprising that the military is not particularly thirsty to see BMPT in the troops. For our army, this is an imposed technique. But to any baboons to sell - will
  28. Vlad ohio
    Vlad ohio 5 June 2018 04: 18
    0
    Hello. I saw in the transfer of Potdubnov how a tank goes between the houses and followed by the "Shilka" and another couple is being cleared in the rear, ready to be replaced. Well, if, instead of shilka, “Terminator” - it’ll be a song at all. I think it’s better not for today.
  29. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 5 June 2018 10: 57
    0
    Quote: Trouble
    Each machine has its own function on the battlefield. How many do not hang on the BMP, BMPT does not work out. And her task is different - to transport and support infantry. Also, the tank can not be compared with BMPT. It is simply impossible to hang additional guns and ATGMs on it.
    BMPT copes with its task perfectly - it supports tanks. In World War II, this task was assigned to self-propelled guns, and in modern Syria it is performed by Shilki.


    In the Great Patriotic War, the “Main Enemy” - those vehicles that you now call BMPT - were called, simply - tanks, and he with them, these subtle (against the background of the then “Armat” (KV-1)) Pkfw-III and Pkfw IV By the way, to the outskirts of Moscow and to the Volga with the Caucasus and the Kola Peninsula ... And they were supported, in the case of the appearance of the KV and T-34, just light and medium self-propelled guns, like Sturmgeshutts ..

    The whole misfortune of today is that the results of the combat use of Soviet military equipment in the Second World War are still not properly understood .. Our design geniuses of tank building certainly did their job, drove Hitler and the CO tank to the “tank biathlon” and made the tank anti-tank self-propelled guns, but then their own infantry, similarly left almost naked!
  30. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 5 June 2018 11: 10
    0
    Quote: Trouble
    Each machine has its own function on the battlefield. How many do not hang on the BMP, BMPT does not work out. And her task is different - to transport and support infantry. Also, the tank can not be compared with BMPT. It is simply impossible to hang additional guns and ATGMs on it.
    BMPT copes with its task perfectly - it supports tanks. In World War II, this task was assigned to self-propelled guns, and in modern Syria it is performed by Shilki.


    In the Great Patriotic War, the “Main Enemy” - those vehicles that you now call BMPT - were called, simply - tanks, and he with them, these subtle (against the background of the then “Armat” (KV-1)) Pkfw-III and Pkfw IV By the way, to the outskirts of Moscow and to the Volga with the Caucasus and the Kola Peninsula ... And they were supported, in the case of the appearance of the KV and T-34, just light and medium self-propelled guns, like Sturmgeshutts. StuG III Ausf.G

    The whole misfortune of today is that the results of the combat use of Soviet military equipment in the Second World War are still not properly understood .. Our design geniuses of tank building certainly did their job, drove Hitler and the CO tank to the “tank biathlon” and made the tank anti-tank self-propelled guns, but their own infantry, likewise, was left almost naked!
  31. cordon332
    cordon332 5 June 2018 11: 44
    +2
    BMPT Terminator is a Russian tank fire support vehicle designed to operate as part of tank formations with the aim of defeating enemy tank dangerous equipment: to effectively suppress enemy manpower equipped with grenade launchers, anti-tank systems, and small arms; there is also the ability to hit tanks, infantry fighting vehicles, bunkers, bunkers and other highly protected targets, including low-flying aircraft and helicopters, on the move and from the spot. To solve these problems, this complex was developed, and the development decision was made based on the results of comparative tests, in which the BM IF also participated. KV BMPT first of all won due to the number of simultaneously used barrels - 4 30 mm barrels against one, for example, BMP-3, for informational content - 4 people. they are simultaneously observing, but also by the number of tasks being solved - 1500 30-mm shells and grenades. Therefore, when some other HF is proposed, it is necessary to compare with what really exists and is mass-produced, rather than proceeding from what I like.
  32. Whowhy
    Whowhy 5 June 2018 12: 17
    +1
    Yes, what is it to dissemble? What is the support of tanks? Typical anti partisan, anti rebel machine.
  33. Oleg Tolstoy
    Oleg Tolstoy 5 June 2018 12: 20
    0
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Quote: Bad_gr
    most liked the military



    So he is de facto - three-tower! wassat
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 5 June 2018 12: 59
      0
      Quote: Oleg Tolstoy
      So he is de facto - three-tower!

      Well, if you count with the machine-guns of the little ones, then 4-ёх (front left, on the fenders, another turret).
  34. cordon332
    cordon332 5 June 2018 13: 18
    +1
    Quote: Oleg Tolstoy
    The whole misfortune of today is that the results of the combat use of Soviet military equipment in the Second World War are still not properly understood .. Our design geniuses of tank building certainly did their job, drove Hitler and the CO tank to the “tank biathlon” and made the tank anti-tank self-propelled guns, but their own infantry, likewise, was left almost naked!

    How naked? In no country is there such a quantity of equipment for protecting infantry in all categories by weight - families: BMD-2, BMD-4M, BMP-2, BMP-3, BTR -82A, Tiger, Typhoon-K, Typhoon-U. So the Russian infantry is a sin to complain.
    1. Sander113
      Sander113 5 June 2018 15: 22
      0
      Rather, it’s a sin to complain to the military-industrial complex. Such a variety of technology that performs similar tasks. Everything that is born in the bowels of the military-industrial complex is immediately joyfully put into service, adjusting tasks to samples. And then, not having time to saturate the troops with equipment, a new wunder-waffle is invented and the cycle repeats. Soon without a bottle you won’t understand how the next breakthrough of the defense industry differs from the previous one.
  35. Xscorpion
    Xscorpion 5 June 2018 18: 30
    +1
    Hmm .. that the article is a delusional analyst that the comments of local experts sparkle with ignorance of the use of tanks.
    1. Infantry near tanks is far from always. Only in defense and in the city. And the use of tanks in the city is due to the fact that there is nothing to replace them there. And in the offensive, tanks are still designed to break through the enemy’s defense, cut off supply routes, exit behind enemy lines and surroundings.
    2. The article states that BMPT is crap because it can’t effectively deal with enemy tanks. It is not intended for this, it is designed to deal with enemy infantry and light armored vehicles. It just has the ability to destroy tanks.
    3. Many experts write that the Terminator in terms of firepower is not better than the BMP-2, because it can fire only with one barrel. This is nonsense. It will fire from two barrels. No one will understand during the battle, what should I shoot? It will shoot from all that is. For the same reason, on all machines with a 30-mm cannon, the ribbons are almost always charged mixed, all in one, BT, BZT, RP, and not separately. If you see a grenade launcher on fire, you won’t I’m thinking, but I’ll smack it from the OB, and when I see the APC, then from BT. You will smear with all your weapons, 30 mm, 7,62, and even more than that, you'll still shoot ten seconds in the same place, even if you’ll hit the target. And even more so, everyone who is in the district will join this and shoot at the same window with the whole platoon. Because it is not known whether this grenade launcher was killed or simply hid, and whether he was alone there.
    R.S.
    I mean, if the true purpose of the machine is unknown, then there is nothing to be clever. BMPT is an excellent vehicle for covering the tank from enemy infantry, as well as an excellent anti-personnel tank to support infantry. It is clear that modernization will be needed, and they will be again and again.
  36. tank64rus
    tank64rus 8 June 2018 19: 59
    0
    Now we can say wait and see.
  37. Forever so
    Forever so 8 June 2018 21: 53
    0
    BMPT is needed where there is a lot of tank, and all sorts of BMPs are very few.
  38. ont65
    ont65 10 June 2018 13: 49
    +1
    Cons of technology, as well as its advantages, depend on the specifics of the method of its application. It is unlikely that someone will undertake to say the opposite. In the Great Patriotic War, there were examples of how the situation itself helped to find the correct setting of tasks for one or another type of weapon in all respects. A developer sometimes assumes one thing, but reality assigns a completely different function to his product. For combat reconnaissance and sabotage, such a multifunctional vehicle, especially in the 'unmanned' version, combined with a link of drones-observers, would have looked perfect.
  39. senima56
    senima56 6 August 2018 14: 44
    0
    To begin with, not a single combat vehicle (tank, infantry fighting vehicle, armored personnel carrier, etc.) can be considered "100% protected"! Another thing is what tasks this technique faces and how effectively it can cope with these tasks!
    I think that the topic “a pair of 30 mm cannons can be replaced with one 57 mm automatic rifle” is very interesting at the moment! After all, even in infantry, the AGS-40 is now being introduced, instead of the AGS-17 (30) because the power of a 30 mm grenade is clearly not enough!
  40. trakks50
    trakks50 24 October 2018 03: 57
    -1
    add a 125 mm cannon of Herod and behind the installation of two pairs of arrows or willow
  41. HOWEVER 200
    HOWEVER 200 8 August 2022 02: 52
    0
    quote: "... The Terminator consists of only four missiles. Thus, after only a few launches, the armored vehicle will be able to fight the most serious threat only with the help of automatic guns, the effectiveness of which will be insufficient...."
    hmm
    So the "Terminator" is NOT a tank, but a tank support BM.
    SUPPORT.
    They must work together, because, on one tank, all means of attack and defense cannot be thrust.
    And an infantry fighting vehicle is also not a tank, like self-propelled guns.