Military Review

Rehabilitated posthumously. Defiant Raskolnikov

132
Fedor Fedorovich Raskolnikov (real name - Ilyin) had a bright life. He began his career during the Civil War, having managed to recommend himself well. Then Fedor Fedorovich began to move along the diplomatic path. He held the posts of plenipotentiaries of several countries and, in his own opinion, was clean before the country. But he could not avoid repression. Raskolnikov fled abroad, from where he sent the famous letter to Joseph Vissarionovich. It began like this: "Stalin, you declared me" outside the law. " By this act, you equated me in my rights - more precisely, in lawlessness - with all Soviet citizens who live outside of the law under your rule. ”


Hero of the revolution

Nikolai Vladimirovich Skritsky in his book “The most famous naval commanders of Russia” wrote: “It so happened that the distant descendant of Lieutenant D.S. Ilyin, the hero of the Chesme battle, F.F. Ilyin (Raskolnikov) over the centuries was at the head flotilla, which achieved one of the first victories of the Soviet fleet. His father, Fedor Alexandrovich Petrov, was the protodeacon of all the artillery of the cathedral of Sergievsky and committed suicide when he was 15 years old. Mother, the daughter of a major general, came from a clan dating back to Prince Dmitry Andreevich Galichsky, and her ancestors, Ilyin, were military. She sent Fyodor Raskolnikov in the fall of 1900 to the shelter of the prince of Oldenburg, who had the rights of a real school. "

And there is. According to official data, Fyodor Raskolnikov was the illegitimate son of Protodeacon Fyodor Petrov and the daughter of Major General Antonina Vasilyevna Ilina. He was born in 1892 year. After the death of the father, the mother identified the son to the orphanage. It happened in 1900 year. Nine years later, Fyodor Raskolnikov entered the Polytechnic Institute in St. Petersburg. It is known that he joined the Bolsheviks at the end of the 1910 of the year. At the same time, Raskolnikov stated that, together with Vyacheslav Mikhailovich Molotov, he worked in the "Bolshevik faction of the Polytechnic Institute".

Rehabilitated posthumously. Defiant Raskolnikov


In 1912, Fedor Raskolnikov tried himself in the journalistic field. And for a couple of years he was an employee of the Zvezda and Pravda newspapers. But his career cut short the First World War. He was not eager to go to the front. Raskolnikov explained his position by saying that the bloodshed is at odds with his convictions. And in order to avoid participation in hostilities, Raskolnikov became a listener to individual midshipmen classes (midshipman - the rank of noncommissioned officers in the Russian Imperial Navy, which existed from 1716 up to 1917). Just in 1917, Fedor Fedorovich them and graduated.

And if the First World War did pass by him, the February revolution opened up great opportunities and prospects for the young man. He managed to get the post of chairman of the Kronstadt Council. But soon (after the July crisis), Raskolnikov was arrested and identified in Kresty. True, there he did not stay long and was released in October of the same 1917 of the year.

Circled Raskolnikov and the maelstrom of the October Revolution. Fedor Fedorovich was noted in the suppression of the famous speech of Kerensky-Krasnov on Petrograd. After that, he took part in the battles in Moscow. When the passions subsided a bit, Raskolnikov was elected to the Constituent Assembly. And at a meeting in January 1918, Fedor Fedorovich read out a declaration stating that the Bolshevik faction was leaving. Already in the spring, he was appointed deputy Lev Davidovich Trotsky - Commissar of the People’s Commissariat (People’s Commissariat of Defense of the USSR for Maritime Affairs). Raskolnikov, executing the order of the Council of People's Commissars, sank the Black Sea Fleet in June 1918. And next month, Fedor Fedorovich became a member of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Eastern Front. And a month later he received a responsible position - he became the commander of the Volga military flotilla.

Raskolnikov noted participation in the seizure of Kazan, which occurred in September 1918. And then his flotilla set out to march on Kame.

During the campaign the flotilla under the leadership of Fyodor Fedorovich stumbled upon the so-called "death barge" in the village of Golyan. Raskolnikov's sailors managed to save more than four hundred people who were to die with the ship.

Soon Raskolnikov was waiting for a new appointment - he became a member of the Revolutionary Military Council of the Republic. It happened in the fall of 1918. And in December, Fyodor Fyodorovich was captured by British sailors. This event occurred during the campaign of the Soviet destroyers "Spartak" and "Avtoil" on Tallinn. That operation ended disgracefully. Both vessels, along with crews, were captured. People were transported to Brixton Prison in London.

But for a foreign lattice Raskolnikov did not last long. At the end of May 1919, the USSR and Britain exchanged prisoners, and Fedor Fedorovich was among the lucky ones. This event occurred in the village of Beloostrov, near Petrograd. Captivity in no way affected the career of Raskolnikov. Moreover, in June he was entrusted with the post of commander of the Astrakhan-Caspian flotilla. Soon he became the head of the Volga-Caspian military flotilla. In 1919, Raskolnikov participated in the defense of Tsaritsyn, and a year later he landed in the Iranian port of Enzeli. The meaning of the operation was that it was necessary to return the ship of the Caspian fleet stolen by the White Guards. Since everything went smoothly, Raskolnikov was honored with two Orders of the Red Banner.



Fedor Fedorovich was also noted as the commander of the Baltic Fleet. Assar, chairman of the Kronstadt department of the Baltic Fleet, recalled: “Raskolnikov considered the sailors to be second-class men. The sailors were starving, and the commander of the Baltic Fleet and his wife lived in a luxurious mansion, kept servants, ate delicacies and did not deny themselves anything.

But in this position Fedor Fedorovich was not for long. In 1921, he was made the plenipotentiary representative of the RSFSR (then the USSR) in Afghanistan. In the early thirties, he held a similar position in Estonia, then in Denmark. And in 1934, he went to Bulgaria. But in April, 1938 of his career drove through the rink of repression.

The Commissariat of Foreign Affairs of the Soviet Union suddenly summoned Raskolnikov with his family. They left Sofia and went to the USSR. Since I had to do a transplant in Berlin, Fedor Fedorovich had a bit of free time. Probably, he already guessed why he was called. Fears confirmed one of the German newspapers, which Raskolnikov acquired at the station. From her he learned about his dismissal of the plenipotentiary in Bulgaria. Fears were confirmed. It became obvious that Fedor Fedorovich was awaiting the sad fate of many other prominent figures - the arrest and subsequent execution. And then he decided to escape. And instead of the USSR, he and his family went to France. But did not immediately report this. Raskolnikov decided to win some time, explaining in the letters the reasons for his delay by “formality”.

In Paris, Raskolnikov even met with the Soviet ambassador to France, Jacob Suritz. The diplomat said to his former colleague that the challenge is pure formality and the country's leadership has no complaints about it. The power is that the alarming “unauthorized stay abroad.” It is necessary to return home as quickly as possible to eliminate this misunderstanding. But Raskolnikov, of course, did not believe Suritsa.

"Enemy of the people"

But Raskolnikov was also not believed in his homeland. And in July 1939, the Supreme Court of the USSR declared Raskolnikov outlawed. This meant that he was only waiting for the execution. This decree “On outlawing officials - citizens of the USSR abroad, who fled into the camp of the enemies of the working class and the peasantry and refused to return to the USSR” was adopted in November 1929.

Raskolnikov understood his position perfectly. But it was too late to retreat. Stalin would never forgive him. Therefore, at the end of July in the Paris Russian émigré newspaper “Last news"He published a letter titled" How I was made an "enemy of the people." Fedor Fedorovich also began work on his legendary “Open Letter to Stalin”, where he described in detail all the horrors happening in the Soviet Union. The work was completed in mid-August, but Raskolnikov did not have time to publish it. He was crushed by the news of the non-aggression treaty between the USSR and Germany, known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Fedor Fedorovich was in Nice and found out about it from local newspapers. Since he was a supporter of the alliance with France and England, the news made a strong impression on him and literally broke it. Raskolnikov believed that Germany could not be trusted, since Hitler could strike at the most unexpected moment.

When he learned about the Treaty, he fell into the so-called reactive psychosis. And my wife had to call the doctors. Raskolnikov was assigned to a psychiatric clinic and ... 12 September of the same year he was gone. It is still unknown what happened to Fedor Fedorovich. All available versions are very different from each other. At the same time, none of them has one hundred percent confirmation.

Nina Berberova in the book "Iron Woman" (biography, published in New York in 1981 year) wrote that Raskolnikov finally went crazy in a psychiatric clinic. And during a sharp aggravation I threw myself out of the window of my chamber, located on the fifth floor. Of course, they failed to save the former plenipotentiary of the USSR But the version raises many questions, since Berberova herself did not see anything of this. She at that moment was not next to Fedor Fedorovich. And her version does not have at least any documentary evidence. So, it is likely that Nina Nikolaevna embellished Raskolnikov’s death.

The widow of Fedor Fedorovich, Muza Vasilievna Raskolnikov-Kanivez, claimed that her husband died not as a result of suicide, but because of acute pneumonia. Like, he picked it up while he was in a psychiatric clinic, and the doctors did not try to help him.

There is a third version, probably the most popular. Publicist Roy Medvedev advanced the theory that Raskolnikov actually died at the hands of NKVD agents. But, like the other versions, this one does not have at least some kind of evidence base. There is no document confirming the targeted liquidation of Raskolnikov. In addition, according to the official version, the special department of the NKVD, which was engaged in eliminating the "enemies of the people" abroad, had already been disbanded. But after the collapse of the USSR, as it is known, it became fashionable to chase after ghosts and see handprints of Chekists in everything.

* * *

As for the letter to Stalin, it was published in September 1939 of the year in the émigré newspaper Novaya Rossiya. Raskolnikov himself at this point, as mentioned above, was no longer alive. In his message Fedor Fedorovich, as they say, went through the roller on all the visible and hidden problems of the USSR. Well, the main villain was, of course, Joseph Vissarionovich. By and large, Raskolnikov told him everything that others were afraid to say. It is understandable, in Nice it was still easier to do.

In the letter, Raskolnikov harshly criticized the entire system of power, which was subordinate to Stalin: “For my part, I answer with complete reciprocity: I return you the entrance ticket to the“ kingdom of socialism ”you have built and break with your regime. Your “socialism”, with the triumph of which its builders found a place only behind the prison bars, is as far from true socialism as the arbitrariness of your personal dictatorship has nothing to do with the dictatorship of the proletariat. It will not help you if the honorable revolutionary revolutionary N.A. Morozov awarded with the order confirms that it was for such “socialism” that he spent 20 years of his life under the vaults of the Schlusselburg fortress ”.

Raskolnikov did not ignore reprisals: “With the help of dirty forgeries, you dramatized the trials that surpassed the medieval witch trials with the absurdity of the accusations. You yourself know that Pyatakov did not fly to Oslo, that Maxim Gorky died a natural death and Trotsky did not dump the train derailed. Knowing that everything is a lie, you encourage your minions ... As you know, I have never been a Trotskyite. On the contrary, I fought ideologically against all oppositions in the press and in wide meetings. And now I do not agree with the political position of Trotsky, with his program and tactics. Fundamentally diverging from Trotsky, I consider him an honest revolutionary. I do not believe and will never believe in his collusion with Hitler and Hess ... "

In a letter, Fyodor Fyodorovich called Stalin an “oath-breaker” because he believed that Joseph Vissarionovich had violated Lenin's testament. I remembered the comrades of Vladimir Ilyich, who were shot: “You slandered, dishonored and shot Lenin's long-term comrades-in-arms: Kamenev, Zinoviev, Bukharin, Rykov and others, whose innocence was well known to you. Before dying, you forced them to repent of crimes they had never committed, and smeared themselves with mud from head to toe.

And where are the heroes of the October Revolution? Where is Bubnov? Where is Krylenko? Where is Antonov-Ovseenko? Where is Dybenko? You arrested them, Stalin. Where is the old guard? She is not alive. You shot her, Stalin. You corrupted and dirtied the souls of your comrades. You forced those following you with torment and disgust to walk through the puddles of blood of yesterday's comrades and friends. In a lying stories Party, written under your leadership. You have robbed the dead, murdered and disgraced by you people and arrogated to themselves their exploits and achievements. You destroyed the party of Lenin, and on its bones you built a new "party of Lenin - Stalin," which serves as a successful cover for your autocracy. "



Of course, he could not get past the purge of the military, accusing Stalin of the fabrication of the “Tukhachevsky case”. He did not disregard Raskolnikov and harsh censorship in his work: “You have squeezed art in a vice, from which it suffocates, withers and dies out. The frenzy of censorship intimidated by you and the understandable timidity of the editors, who are responsible for everything with their heads, led to the ossification and paralysis of Soviet literature. The writer can not be printed, the playwright can not put the play on the stage of the theater, the critic can not express his personal opinion, not marked by the official stamp. You are strangling Soviet art, demanding that it be courtly lisoblyudstvo, but it prefers to remain silent, so as not to sing “hosanna” to you. You spread pseudo-art, which with annoying monotony glorifies your notorious “genius”, which has become sick of teeth. The worthless clowns glorify you as a demigod, "born of the moon and the sun," and you, as an oriental despot, enjoy the incense of coarse flattery.

You ruthlessly exterminate the talented, but personally disagreeable Russian writers. Where is Boris Pilnyak? Where is Sergey Tretyakov? Where is Alexander Arosev? Where is Mikhail Koltsov? Where is Tarasov Rodionov? Where is Galina Serebryakova, guilty of being a wife of Sokolnikov? You arrested them, Stalin. ”

Raskolnikov criticized Stalin both for domestic and foreign policy: “In the terrible hour of military danger, when the edge of fascism is directed against the Soviet Union, when the struggle for Danzig and the war in China is only preparing a springboard for future intervention against the USSR, when the main object of Germani- Japanese aggression - our homeland, when the only way to prevent war is the open entry of the Union of Soviets into the International Bloc of Democratic States, the earliest conclusion of a military and political alliance with England and Franz And, you hesitate, wait and swing like a pendulum between two "axes". In all calculations of your foreign and domestic policy, you do not start out of love for the Motherland, which is alien to you, but of animal fear of losing personal power. Your unprincipled dictatorship, like rotten, lies across the road of our country. "

At the end of his letter, Raskolnikov predicted to Stalin the dock that awaits him "as a traitor to socialism and revolution, the main wrecker, a genuine enemy of the people, an organizer of famine and judicial fraud."

* * *

That defector's message did not cause a serious resonance after publication. It is understandable, in Europe at that time, and their problems enough. Few were interested in the confession of a defector. It remained the same unnoticed in the Soviet Union. It is not known whether Stalin knew about him. And even if you knew, did not respond. Joseph Vissarionovich understood that it was pointless to focus on the defect.

In 1963, Fedor Fedorovich rehabilitated. His letter became public only in the eighties. The people actively discussed it. Some were horrified by the situation in the country, while others believed that Raskolnikov was greatly offended, so he wrote a sentimental “fairy tale”. But soon the citizens of the USSR switched to current problems. What is the difference what happened then, if now comes a frightening and incomprehensible restructuring?
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  1. odometer
    odometer 1 June 2018 06: 03
    +9
    Judging by the description - a seasoned enemy.
    1. avt
      avt 1 June 2018 08: 10
      +3
      Quote: curvimeter
      Judging by the description - a seasoned enemy.

      And you, together with the author, are reluctant to delve into the period of the narrative hero’s life, modestly noted in the article
      Fedor Fedorovich was also noted as the commander of the Baltic Fleet. Assar, chairman of the Kronstadt department of the Baltic Fleet, recalled: “Raskolnikov considered the sailors to be second-class men. The sailors were starving, and the commander of the Baltic Fleet and his wife lived in a luxurious mansion, kept servants, ate delicacies and did not deny themselves anything.
      But Fedor Fedorovich was not in this position for long. In 1921, he was made plenipotentiary of the RSFSR (then the USSR) in Afghanistan.
      Well, in particular, on the episode of the capture of two destroyers shaved, with the fate of the captive Bolsheviks from the crews tied to the fate of the hero of the story? So that
      Quote: polpot
      "Revolution, as the god Saturn devours his children.

      whose child he is, or rather who and when he adopted him, is really a question of interest.
      1. odometer
        odometer 1 June 2018 08: 33
        +3
        Reluctance. “... by their fruits you will know them ...” This article has enough information to understand what kind of “fruit” is.
      2. gsev
        gsev 4 June 2018 22: 48
        0
        “Well, in particular, on the episode of the capture of two destroyers shaved, with the fate of the captured Bolsheviks from the crews tied to the fate of the hero of the story? I give a hint - like Lazo, whom the Japanese threw into the firebox, the hero of the story did not get.
        In the Far East, the war was very fierce. Look at the search engines "Nikolaev Incident". During the Civil War, the Red partisans destroyed the entire Japanese population of the city. The exception is Japanese, or rather Japanese women and their young children, who called themselves Chinese and whom the Chinese did not give out. Hence the fate of Lazo and Raskolnikov. In the memoirs of Raskolnikov himself, it is clear that he was not cruel.
  2. polpot
    polpot 1 June 2018 06: 05
    +1
    "Revolution, as the god Saturn devours his children. Be careful, the gods are thirsty" - said long ago
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 1 June 2018 06: 19
    +8
    And where are the heroes of the October Revolution? Where is Bubnov? Where is Krylenko? Where is Antonov-Ovseenko? Where is Dybenko? // Where is the old guard? She is not alive. You shot her, Stalin.
    One of the spiders from the can managed to escape from it and described how the "comrades in the struggle" mercilessly dealt with each other, mortally hating and fearing each other.
    He wrote an interesting letter, clearly characterizing the mores prevailing in the party.
    By the way, along with this letter, he drew and ... a penitential letter, where he called himself ... a faithful companion of Stalin. lol
    PS an interesting story with another fugitive: a member of the Politburo Uspensky, he ... "drowned". And runaway around the country.
    They did it anyway. Yes
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 1 June 2018 07: 06
      +4
      Dear Olgovich, I completely agree with you, one inaccuracy is that Uspensky was a Chekist, came to the authorities illiterate, reached great heights under Yezhov, although he remained just as illiterate, stupidly organized his own drowning, his former comrades quickly saw through him.
      1. Olgovich
        Olgovich 1 June 2018 08: 20
        +3
        Quote: bober1982
        Dear Olgovich, I completely agree with you, one inaccuracy is that Uspensky was a Chekist, came to the authorities illiterate, reached great heights under Yezhov, although he remained just as illiterate, stupidly organized his own drowning, his former comrades quickly saw through him.

        I didn’t want to repeat myself: he wrote about his profession and flight back in his commentary on V.'s previous article Shpakovsky.
        By the way, he was hiding under the name ..SHMAKOVSKY Yes
      2. Monarchist
        Monarchist 1 June 2018 08: 22
        0
        Beaver, I would not say that I’ve stupidly organized: after all, I’ve got half a year
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 1 June 2018 08: 29
          +1
          Former half-year, the former commissioner of state security of the 3rd rank, running around the country with a fake passport, as if hunted, had no luck, unlike Raskolnikov, it was far to Berlin or Paris.
    2. Monarchist
      Monarchist 1 June 2018 08: 18
      +6
      Olgovich, you correctly characterized the third spider Raskolnikov: when others fought in
      PMV, he was sitting in a corner. He always preferred prosperity in the corner.
      A curious somersault with a deceased letter: Stalin you are this way, and then "beloved leader, I am your faithful slave"
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 1 June 2018 14: 04
      +2
      "One of the spiders from the can managed to break out of it and described how the" comrades in the struggle "mercilessly dealt with each other," ////
      ----
      As a child, I was friends with a boy who had a very old, reserved and unpleasant grandfather. Our parents were friends too. So, when he died, I found out that he was a retired admiral, and during the Second World War he was a captain of some rank and commanded a ship. A bunch of orders remained.
      But the story is not about that. His widow retold his dying stories. He was a commissar and security officer from 16 years old. And his words: “we were then stupid and boastful killer boys. The weapons and impunity of his use intoxicated us” ... And there are some examples: grabbed girls, shot random people. Repented, received his sight.
      Therefore, the example of Raskolnikov is quite typical.
    4. ser56
      ser56 2 June 2018 15: 13
      0
      it is significant at the same time how they treated the people for whom they allegedly fought ... lived in mansions, starting with Lenin, ate delicacies separately during the famine .... request
      the funny thing is, there are still believers in socialism ... bully
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 00: 32
        +2
        Quote: ser56
        the funny thing is, there are still believers in socialism ...

        Do you offer to believe in the oligarchs?
        And at the expense of Lenin, if he ate delicacies, he would not have such a powerful brain sclerosis. And they heard about Zurup, he brought an echelon with groceries to the starving city, and during the report he fell into a hungry swoon.
        1. ser56
          ser56 5 June 2018 12: 39
          0
          If you want to believe, it’s better to believe in God ...
          As for VIL, he drank beer in Switzerland for his father’s pension and party money that Kamo robbed ... and in Russia he lived in Gorki - such a modest hut ... bully
          As for Tsuryupa, do you all believe in fairy tales? crying Read the protocol for opening the safe of Sverdlov ...
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 8 June 2018 19: 38
            +1
            Quote: ser56
            Read the protocol for opening the safe of Sverdlov ...

            Do you believe in this myth?
            1. ser56
              ser56 9 June 2018 15: 26
              0
              Is a myth all that you don’t like? By the way, do you know why Sverdlov died? From the train nut that the workers threw it ... request
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 9 June 2018 15: 39
                +1
                Quote: ser56
                Is a myth all that you don’t like? By the way, do you know why Sverdlov died? From the train nut that the workers threw it

                No, I just know life well. The first person in the state has died, there is a huge safe in the office, and do you believe that no one looked into it in 1919 and sent it to the farm? And only after 20 years it was discovered. Nonsense. This could not be, based on the fact that a safe for a leader of any rank is the most necessary thing in the office.
                Yes, and from the "nut" or immediately die, or recover.
                1. ser56
                  ser56 13 June 2018 11: 45
                  0
                  I don’t believe in such things at all, I just read about them ... hi
  4. rkkasa xnumx
    rkkasa xnumx 1 June 2018 06: 55
    +9
    in April 1938, a rink of repression drove through his career.
    The People’s Commissar of Foreign Affairs of the Soviet Union suddenly called Raskolnikov with his family. They left Sofia and headed to the USSR. Since I had to make a transplant in Berlin, Fedor Fedorovich had some free time. He probably already guessed why he had been called. Fears were confirmed by one of the German newspapers, which Raskolnikov acquired at the station. From it, he learned about his removal from the post of plenipotentiary in Bulgaria.

    The man is led by the leadership, he is from German newspaper learns of his displacement, and decides to escape ... A muddy story. Who knows, maybe just a man was stolen, or maybe there was no decision on repression against Raskolnikov.
    Raskolnikov perfectly understood his position <...> Therefore, at the end of July in the Parisian Russian émigré newspaper "Latest News" he published a letter entitled "How I was made an" enemy of the people. " Also Fedor Fedorovich began work on his legendary "Open letter to Stalin", where he described in great detail all the horrors happening in the Soviet Union. The work was completed in mid-August, but Raskolnikov did not manage to publish it.

    No wonder - the deserter is being served in front of his new masters. The anti-Soviet, the blackening of the Soviet Union are in demand in the West, so Fedya tried.
    By the way, how could he know in great detail about the horrors that were happening in the USSR, if he had lived abroad since the beginning of the 20s?
    As for the letter to Stalin, it was published in September 1939 in the emigrant newspaper New Russia. Raskolnikov himself at this point, as mentioned above, was no longer alive. In his message, Fedor Fedorovich, as they say, skating rink went through all the visible and hidden problems of the USSR.

    It is possible that in fact it was not Raskolnikov who walked the rink, but the scribes from the “New Russia” themselves added chernukha.
    1. Olgovich
      Olgovich 1 June 2018 08: 36
      +6
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      The man is called up by the leadership, he learns from a German newspaper about his displacement, and decides to escape ... A muddy story.

      Why is it muddy? Such as he-destroyed hundreds: they were summoned to Moscow, and finally. Fedya knew this and did not build illusions.
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      Who knows, maybe just a man steals

      You do not know, but speak. As always. The man was NOT convicted of theft.
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      Anti-Soviet, blackening of the Soviet Union

      I wrote the TRUTH. Or are the following in the letter alive ?: fool
      shot long-term associates of Lenin: Kamenev, Zinoviev, Bukharin, Rykov and others, whose innocence was well known to you. Before dying, you made them repent of crimes they had never committed, and smear themselves with dirt from head to toe.
      А where are the heroes of the October revolution? Where is Bubnov? Where is Krylenko? Where is Antonov-Ovseenko? Where is Dybenko?

      They were all shot, having trampled, crushed and destroyed morally. All is true.
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      By the way, how could he know in great detail about the horrors that were happening in the USSR, if he had lived abroad since the beginning of the 20s?

      About the above-of ... print Yes Yes, and the morals of accomplices, knew well
      Quote: rkkasa 81
      It is possible that in fact it was not Raskolnikov who walked the rink, but the scribes from the “New Russia” themselves added chernukha.

      There is an original letter. And the real chernukha described to a normal person could not even enter his head in a dream ..
      1. rkkasa xnumx
        rkkasa xnumx 1 June 2018 09: 46
        +6
        Quote: Olgovich
        Why is it muddy? Such as he-destroyed hundreds: they were summoned to Moscow, and finally.

        Do you, of course, have lists too - those that hundreds were called from abroad for executions? laughing
        Quote: Olgovich

        You do not know, but speak. As always. Man was NOT convicted of theft

        Mr. yap, you spoil and wag. As always stop Naturally, he was not convicted, because he was washed away. And there is no evidence confirming that they wanted to repress him, or that he was clean and innocent as a lamb - no request
        Quote: Olgovich
        I wrote the TRUTH ...

        The shooting of several people - and this is all horror? I'm glad that you finally realized that there were few horrors in the USSR hi
        1. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 June 2018 10: 09
          +3
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Do you, of course, have lists too - those that hundreds were called from abroad for executions?

          There are in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and about their own, in the FSB and SVR-about their destroyed external intelligence agents. Even the latter knows about these purges. But to you, with your head buried in the sand, this is unknown.
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Naturally, he was not convicted, tk has washed off.

          No,
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          Mr. yap

          , he Was condemned- learn to read, finally, articles in
          July 1939 years Supreme Court The USSR declared Raskolnikov illegal.
          Shame ....
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          The shooting of several people - and this is all horror?

          The total horror consisted of millions of private horrors.
          Quote: rkkasa 81
          I'm glad that you finally realized that there were few horrors in the USSR

          What's wrong with you? belay hi
          1. rkkasa xnumx
            rkkasa xnumx 1 June 2018 10: 33
            +3
            Quote: rkkasa 81
            Do you, of course, have lists too - those that hundreds were called from abroad for executions?

            Quote: Olgovich
            There are in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and about their own, in the FSB and SVR-about their destroyed external intelligence agents. Even the latter knows about these purges. But to you, with your head buried in the sand, this is unknown

            In general, Mr. yap as always lies and dodges Yes
            Quote: Olgovich
            Total horror consisted of millions of private horrors

            How did the plenipotentiary, who was almost hopelessly abroad, know about this - terrible general horror ... request Not otherwise, Olgovich whispered to him lol
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 1 June 2018 14: 41
              +3
              Quote: rkkasa 81
              In general, Mr. yap as always lies and dodges

              How do you HATE the history of our homeland, t. Ignoramus. Not ashamed?
              EARN these hundreds of names of repressed diplomats on your nose-node (they are in the official publication of the Russian Foreign Ministry): https: // idd.Mid.ru / kniga-pamati-rabotnikov-sovetskoj-diplomatice
              skoj-sluzby-zertv-repressij
              In May 1938, the places of the US ambassadors to the MNG of Europe were empty, as were the embassies ...
              1. rkkasa xnumx
                rkkasa xnumx 1 June 2018 15: 17
                +2
                Mr. yap, as you always lie and bustle stop You started your next tongue From this :
                Quote: Olgovich
                Such as he- destroyed by hundreds: they were called to Moscow and, finally,. Fedya knew this and did not build illusions

                To this, you were asked a simple question:
                Quote: rkkasa 81
                Do you, of course, have lists too - those that hundreds were called from abroad for executions?
                fellow
                And here you are giving a link to repressions against those who at least somehow, at least once had a relationship with the Foreign Ministry.
                PS The question is - are you ashamed, Mr. yap? - I will not ask. The answer is obvious. You had no conscience and shame request
                1. Olgovich
                  Olgovich 2 June 2018 05: 02
                  0
                  Quote: rkkasa 81
                  And here you are giving a link to repression to those who somehow at least once related to the Foreign Ministry.

                  Once upon a time
                  Quote: rkkasa 81
                  Mr. yap,

                  ?! fool
                  These are NKID ACTIVE employees
                  Jean Lvovich 1889-1939 Consul General of the USSR in New York (USA)
                  AROSEV
                  Alexander Yakovlevich 1890-1938 Plenipotentiary of the USSR in Lithuania
                  Plenipotentiary of the USSR in Czechoslovakia
                  ASKOV
                  Arkady Borisovich Head of the Press Bureau of the USSR Embassy in Japan
                  ASMUS
                  Eric Adolfovich 1901-1937 Plenipotentiary of the USSR in Finland
                  BERZIN
                  Jan Antonovich 1881-1941 Representative of the RSFSR in Switzerland
                  Representative of the RSFSR in Finland
                  Plenipotentiary of the USSR in Austria
                  BESSONSOV
                  Sergei Alekseevich 1892-1938 Counselor of the Plenipotentiary of the USSR in Germany
                  Acting Head of the 2nd Western Department of the USSR NKID
                  BITNER
                  Anatoly Vasilyevich 1884 - Consul General of the USSR in Tianjin (China)
                  BOGOMOLOV
                  Dmitry Vasilyevich 1890-1938 Plenipotentiary of the USSR in Poland
                  USSR envoy to China
                  Etc.
                  Zarubite on the nose the names of the repressed diplomats summoned and destroyed.
                  Now I will not ask the question:
                  Quote: rkkasa 81
                  Shame on you, Mr. yap? . The answer is obvious. You had no conscience and shame and KNOWLEDGE

                  And after all, time after time you fall into the pool of ignorance. Habit, apparently. Yes lol
                  1. rkkasa xnumx
                    rkkasa xnumx 2 June 2018 06: 34
                    +2
                    Mr. yap, even giving this short list (in which there are clearly not hundreds of names) - you already Yes For example :
                    Arosev - from 1934 to 1937 - chairman of the VOKS. Before the arrest, he lived in Moscow. No one from abroad called for his arrest request
                    Berzins is the same. From 1932 to 1937 - Head of the Central Archival Administration of the USSR request
                    In general, from the 20s to the 50s, there were thousands of diplomats in the USSR; Naturally, they were called to Moscow a huge number of times, and naturally, in the vast majority of cases, this did not end with the arrest of a diplomat request Otherwise, you won’t get any diplomats.
                    It is necessary to be a complete olgovich to consider that a call to the capital automatically means repression fool
                    1. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 June 2018 06: 49
                      0
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      Mr. yap, even citing this short list (which clearly not hundreds surnames) - you already messed up

                      You,
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      Mr. yap

                      Count the people listed.
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      In general, from the 20s to the 50s, there were thousands of diplomats in the USSR;

                      And also in the 15th century there were diplomats. lol WHAT is there 20-50 g ?! It’s about 30 years and then there were not thousands, but already ... 500 people.
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      and naturally, in the vast majority of cases, this did not end with the arrest of a diplomat

                      And in the 30s for many, ended. The same Bogomolov, Berzins, Arosev, etc., -were Permanent representatives in countries, they were returned and someone earlier, whom later they shot. Read the biographies. .
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      Otherwise, you won’t get any diplomats.

                      Read the History of the Foreign Ministry, the embassy stood EMPTY in May 1939 - and this is on the eve of the war! Of the professionals, there was only one drug addict Kollontai.
                      It is necessary to be a complete olgovich to consider that a call to the capital automatically means repression

                      In 1937, Mr. For very many meant. See the dates of death of diplomats and dates of convictions.
                      = rkkasa 81 finished olgovich

                      lol laughing
                      1. rkkasa xnumx
                        rkkasa xnumx 2 June 2018 07: 10
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        embassies stood EMPTY

                        [media = http: // https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 01J
                        cM2pIKWc]
                    2. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 2 June 2018 08: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      [media = http: // https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 01J

                      In a letter to the Politburo in 1939, M. Litvinov mentions vacant posts predpredoin the embassies in Washington, Tokyo and several other embassies.

                      By the summer of 1939, five deputies of the People's Commissar were repressed - repression hit 48 plenipotentiaries of the USSR, among them four former and current deputy commissars were convicted and executed: L. Karakhan, N. Krestinsky, G. Sokolnikov, B. Stomonyakov, Plenipotentiaries and Permanent Representativesin particular, S. Alexandrovsky, A. Bekzadyan, M. Karsky, H. Rakovsky, K. Hakimov, K. Yurenev, Y. Janson, trade representative of the USSR in Sweden and Germany D. Kandelaki, 30 heads of departments 28 heads of consular missions. The embassies suffered heavy losses in China, Mongolia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Bulgaria.

                      http://russiancouncil.ru
                      Antonov -ovseenko-summoned, shot.
                      Asmus-summoned, shot
                      Arens-summoned, shot, etc.

                      Hacked, ignoramus?
                      This is the story of a country that you do not know and FEAR.
                      1. rkkasa xnumx
                        rkkasa xnumx 2 June 2018 09: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        embassies stood EMPTY

                        Quote: Olgovich
                        M. Litvinov mentions vacant posts of envoys

                        There is a difference between the two quotes. Big one.
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        ignoramus

                        Mr. yap, don't be rude stop You are famous starball fellow and provocateur Yes but you don’t have to finally slide into a bestial state wassat Ugly hi
                      2. Karenius
                        Karenius 3 June 2018 22: 05
                        0
                        Quote: Olgovich
                        Quote: rkkasa 81
                        [media = http: // https: //www.youtube.com/watch? v = 01J

                        In a letter to the Politburo in 1939, M. Litvinov mentions vacant posts predpredoin the embassies in Washington, Tokyo and several other embassies.

                        By the summer of 1939, five deputies of the People's Commissar were repressed - repression hit 48 plenipotentiaries of the USSR, among them four former and current deputy commissars were convicted and executed: L. Karakhan, N. Krestinsky, G. Sokolnikov, B. Stomonyakov, Plenipotentiaries and Permanent Representativesin particular, S. Alexandrovsky, A. Bekzadyan, M. Karsky, H. Rakovsky, K. Hakimov, K. Yurenev, Y. Janson, trade representative of the USSR in Sweden and Germany D. Kandelaki, 30 heads of departments 28 heads of consular missions. The embassies suffered heavy losses in China, Mongolia, Finland, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czechoslovakia, and Bulgaria.

                        http://russiancouncil.ru
                        Antonov -ovseenko-summoned, shot.
                        Asmus-summoned, shot
                        Arens-summoned, shot, etc.

                        Olgovich, these execution lists, for those of whom I know about their atrocities, are like Balm for me !!!
                        Thanks to Stalin for these good deeds !!!
                    3. Olgovich
                      Olgovich 3 June 2018 06: 29
                      0
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      There is a difference between the two quotes. Big

                      Without permanent representatives, embassies are empty if you do not understand.
                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      Mr. yap, don't to be rude You famous starball и provocateur but you don’t have to completely slide into bestial condition Ugly
                      belay lol
                      Nice man, these are YOUR appeals to me:

                      Quote: rkkasa 81
                      You are a starball and a provocateur, a complete olgovich, yap, etc.

                      That is how NEHAMs turn, right? fool lol Show me something similar on my part.

                      PS Appeal "Provocator"- officially recognized as "insult and rudeness", personally received a warning for this.
                      Repent (before it's too late)! lol laughing
        2. ser56
          ser56 2 June 2018 15: 16
          +1
          even officially in the USSR more than 600 thousand were shot ... are you a few people? hi
          if it’s not a secret - 4,3 million were dispossessed, 2 million were exiled at the beginning of the 30s - is that not horror? request
          1. rkkasa xnumx
            rkkasa xnumx 2 June 2018 15: 27
            +1
            If you did not notice, then it was about deep. workers. And the fact that the call to Moscow did not automatically mean arrest and execution.
            1. ser56
              ser56 2 June 2018 15: 42
              +1
              it’s difficult to disagree with you, there was no automation here, it was just practice ... I recall that the same R. Sorge also evaded returning to Moscow ...
              1. rkkasa xnumx
                rkkasa xnumx 2 June 2018 16: 12
                +1
                Quote: ser56
                the same R. Sorge also evaded returning to Moscow

                Maybe he evaded, maybe not, but in any case, this is only an isolated case. Despite the fact that - from the 20s to the 50s, there were thousands of diplomats in the USSR; Naturally, they were summoned to Moscow a huge number of times, and naturally, in the vast majority of cases, this did not end with the arrest of a diplomat. Otherwise, you won’t get any diplomats.
                Quote: ser56
                there was no automation

                I’m talking about this. And about nothing:
                Quote: Olgovich
                destroyed by hundreds: they were called to Moscow and finally.

                - and there can be no question.
                Accordingly, Raskolnikov’s behavior is strange, and his story is muddy.
                Threat Below there is a kament in which the author believes that Raskolnikov was stolen, and his letter is a fake. In my opinion, he considers it reasonably enough.
                1. ser56
                  ser56 5 June 2018 12: 44
                  0
                  1) You are mistaken about isolated cases - we just don’t know everything ...
                  2) And about diplomats - it’s like we are talking about a strict time period when the Stalinist purging of the elites was going on ... the data is open - you want to find it, you do not want to know - your right
                  3) Maybe it got too fast - does it change something? The old Bolsheviks easily confused their own and the state treasury, in difficult times they calmly went on vacation and treatment abroad ... The question is different - why do you easily believe in any kind of slander against Raskolnikov alone? The same ITT, according to modern standards, is a Caucasian terrorist / extremist in his youth ...
                  1. rkkasa xnumx
                    rkkasa xnumx 5 June 2018 14: 02
                    0
                    Quote: ser56
                    You are mistaken about isolated cases - we just don’t know everything ...

                    However, the "logic" you have ... I am mistaken, but there are no arguments, maybe - "we do not know everything."
                    Quote: ser56
                    data is open - you want to find it, do not want to know - your right

                    Again by.
                    Quote: ser56
                    Maybe stealing - is that something changing?

                    Really do not understand?
                    Quote: ser56
                    The question is different - why do you easily believe in any kind of slander in the address of only Raskolnikov? The same ITT, according to modern standards, is a Caucasian terrorist / extremist in his youth ...

                    What are you talking about?
                    1. ser56
                      ser56 5 June 2018 15: 18
                      0
                      I have everyday logic - neither I, nor you have studied this topic ... or are you a pro in this matter? bully
                      "Really don't understand?" no, if he was stolen, then the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR could write this corny, and he was declared a defector, i.e. political, not felonious ... so accessible? hi
                      "What are you talking about?" that all the Bolsheviks are still that company: scumbags, terrorists, extremists, perverts, etc. ....
                      When the IVS disposed of them, he simply said part of the truth about them bully
          2. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 01: 38
            +3
            Quote: ser56
            even officially in the USSR more than 600 thousand were shot ...

            This number for more than 30 years includes the shot Basmachi, Vlasovites, Banderaites, forest brothers, and other traitors who have committed serious crimes, as well as criminals.
            Quote: ser56
            if it’s not a secret - 4,3 million were dispossessed, 2 million were exiled at the beginning of the 30s - is that not horror?

            There is no horror, a civil war continued in the village, dispossessed and exiled those who were engaged in sabotage and actively fought against the collective farm movement with the killings of activists, arson, injuries and other types of wrecking.
            1. ser56
              ser56 5 June 2018 12: 47
              +1
              600/30 = 20 ... more precisely ... I’ll note that RI executed about 000 over the entire time, maybe something was wrong at the conservatory? hi
              Quote: Alexander Green
              dispossessed and exiled those who engaged in sabotage and actively fought against the collective farm movement
              read the letters of the Sholokhov ITT ... by the way - who unleashed this GV by continuous collectivization? Who wanted to destroy the fist as a class? Who violated the decree of the earth?
              1. Alexander Greene
                Alexander Greene 8 June 2018 19: 40
                +1
                Quote: ser56
                who unleashed this GW with complete collectivization? Who wanted to destroy the fist as a class? Who violated the decree of the earth?

                The civil war in the village unleashed fists, because they were not happy that the poor would no longer work for them. They started to harm, and got what they deserved.
                1. ser56
                  ser56 9 June 2018 15: 20
                  0
                  you feel sorry for you, you live in a fantasy world ... bully
                  1. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 9 June 2018 15: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: ser56
                    you feel sorry for you, you live in a fantasy world ...

                    Dear, you regret yourself and your children, because if you or they later go against the people, everything will happen again.
                    1. ser56
                      ser56 13 June 2018 11: 48
                      0
                      1) I’m not shy and raised my children like that, but usually they are very shy ... bully
                      2) the Bolsheviks went against the people, therefore they were afraid of holding real elections for 70 years, they constantly terrorized the people - I remind you that the last execution of workers by the "people's power" was in Novocherkassk in 1961 ...
            2. Evgeny Alexeev
              Evgeny Alexeev 31 August 2018 23: 37
              0
              This number for more than 30 years includes the shot Basmachi, Vlasovites, Banderaites, forest brothers, and other traitors who have committed serious crimes, as well as criminals.

              No, not included. 682 thousand people were shot before the war. Namely, for 1,5 years. In 1937/38, therefore, the Vlasovites, Banderaites, forest brothers and criminals did not enter here. Do not listen to Wasserman. Read normal books.

              There is no horror, a civil war continued in the village, dispossessed and exiled those who were engaged in sabotage and actively fought against the collective farm movement with the killings of activists, arson, injuries and other types of wrecking.

              Read Sholokhov’s letter to Stalin, in which the writer writes about how they mocked and tortured the peasants in the village of Veshenskaya, knocking out their last bread. After this, famine broke out, which claimed several million lives due to hunger and disease (due to hunger).
          3. Karenius
            Karenius 4 June 2018 23: 20
            0
            About 30 years ago in Kaz.SSR they drank vodka with an old man, Lewandowski his last name. He got there in exile in the 1920th, it seems like a white-polar. So, from his words, exiled there at the end of the 20th, “dispossessed” they perceived at the first meeting as an anti-Soviet, anti-socialist element.
            That's what life-giving ideology did to people :)
  5. bober1982
    bober1982 1 June 2018 07: 19
    +5
    Raskolnikov himself was head over heels in blood, and such letters to him were worthless, like his sudden insight (of course he had a flair and sense of smell), but during perestroika they were very willing to print and discuss, it was necessary to “bring down” the USSR.
  6. Adjutant
    Adjutant 1 June 2018 07: 28
    +3
    And why do we need these?
    Revolutionaries?
    Parasites incapable of ordinary life, wolves in a sheep flock?
    No wonder the ancients said that heroes during the war are necessary, and after the war they are dangerous.
    That got rid of the "heroes" of the Civil War, however, the pattern however
    1. rkkasa xnumx
      rkkasa xnumx 1 June 2018 10: 25
      +7
      Quote: Adjutant
      And why do we need these? Revolutionaries? Parasites incapable of normal life

      Then, in order to make one of the world's leading powers - from the backward, agrarian RI - the Soviet Union.
      Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, Molotov, Voroshilov, Kaganovich and many, many others - they were all revolutionaries, but they were not parasites. And the fact that among the revolutionaries there were not always people worthy of high posts, this is not surprising. And the fact that the Soviet government fought against those unworthy is only a plus to it.
      1. Evgeny Alexeev
        Evgeny Alexeev 31 August 2018 23: 41
        0
        Then, in order to make one of the world's leading powers - from the backward, agrarian RI - the Soviet Union.

        That is, in order to develop industry in the country, it was necessary to rob the peasantry and exterminate millions. Such a good system. Were there many such societies in the 20th century?
  7. Serg65
    Serg65 1 June 2018 07: 36
    +4
    “Raskolnikov considered sailors to be second-class people. The sailors were starving, and the Baltic Fleet commander and his wife lived in a luxurious mansion, kept servants, ate delicacies and refused nothing to themselves. ”

    Well, most likely not Raskolnikov himself, but his beloved little wife Larisa Mikhailovna Reisner! Hereditary revolutionaries adored chic, shine, beauty .... and executions!
    in December, Fedor Fedorovich was captured by British sailors. This event occurred during the campaign of the Soviet destroyers Spartak and Avtroil to Tallinn. That operation ended ingloriously

    what Just a few lines ?? !!! But this event revealed the whole essence of Raskolnikov !!!
    In Paris, Raskolnikov even met with the Ambassador of the Soviet Union in France, Jacob Suritz

    laughing Well, of course, wherever Raskolnikov go, if not to an old friend in Afghanistan! Eeeh, what are they doing things there !!!!
    At the end of his letter, Raskolnikov predicted to Stalin a dock,

    what Raskolnikov himself has his hands in blood, but he is trying to look white and fluffy!
    1. Monarchist
      Monarchist 1 June 2018 08: 31
      +1
      Regarding Resner, Vsevolod Veshnevsky was fascinated by her and made her the heroine of one of his tales. Remember: "who else wants the commissar of whose body?"
      1. odometer
        odometer 1 June 2018 08: 42
        +2
        In the artistic works, the female commissars aroused sympathy ...
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 1 June 2018 08: 48
          +3
          Quote: curvimeter
          In the artistic works, the female commissars aroused sympathy ...

          Not in all, even in conditions of socialist realism. For example, in a movie Two friends served, the commissioner in the performance of actress Alla Demidova is terrifying.
          1. odometer
            odometer 1 June 2018 09: 54
            +2
            I do not have. When I wrote, I meant it.
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 1 June 2018 10: 05
              +4
              Quote: curvimeter
              When I wrote, I meant it.

              She, the commissioner in the film, looks like a lived morphist, elegantly sent for executions. But this of course, in my opinion. Tastes could not be discussed.
              1. avt
                avt 1 June 2018 12: 39
                +1
                Quote: bober1982
                She, the commissioner in the film, looks like a lived morphist, elegantly sent for executions.
                fool
                Yeah, after the words of the heroine played by Demidova - ,, I recognized you, it was you who interrogated me in counterintelligence. "
                1. bober1982
                  bober1982 1 June 2018 12: 56
                  +1
                  This commissioner told the movie hero (actor Oleg Yankovsky), who had the same relationship with counterintelligence as you and I did (I say - she looked like a drug addict, not of course Demidov, but a movie heroine). Moreover, Demidova played professionally, there appeared to be social realism in art, so that evil languages ​​would not speak.
          2. Looking for
            Looking for 1 June 2018 19: 40
            +2
            Tell me, how old were you when you first saw this film? Apparently. You are born in 1982, then you can’t objectively consider the period of 20-30 years .. because you are a product of the 90s to the bone .
            1. bober1982
              bober1982 2 June 2018 04: 03
              0
              You are curious, as a woman, what difference does it make how old I was when I saw the film.
              Brothers, do not believe her, she is a witch! , exclaimed the Red Army man (actor Rolan Bykov), whom this lady, who looked like a morphine, had sent for execution.
              Here is the metaphysical explanation of why this image of the commissar is terrifying.
            2. gsev
              gsev 4 June 2018 23: 19
              0
              For example, I consciously encountered the fact that under Stalin crimes were committed when I was not even 10 years old. In the early 70s, dispossessed relatives from Kazakhstan came to us. At that time, the name of Stalin and his role in the course of World War II began to be mentioned again. Someone said a respectful or even neutral remark about Stalin. And I see in response animal hatred at the word Stalin in the eyes of my peer. At about this time, a former prisoner of the White Sea Canal told me what was happening there. I don’t remember any details, but the horror that a person so simply says that such an unthinkable happened in my country and those around him who are listening carefully will not leave me to death. Of course, later I learned a lot, rethought a lot, but the first insight refers to this period. So it is with the film "Two Comrades" - for someone else, the commissioner, the main plot of the film and the whole plot is built around it. Yes, all the great films after the war are ideologically focused on the destruction of the attractiveness of Stalinism. This can even be said about people like “Communist”, “Variant Omega”, “Say the word about the poor hussar”, “Saturn is almost invisible”. Not for nothing that the attitude towards Stalin and his methods after 2 in the minds of Russian citizens has not changed for the worse.
          3. hohol95
            hohol95 1 June 2018 22: 30
            +3
            Alla Demidova showed on the screen the image of Rosalia ZEMLYACHKA!

            The countrywoman had tremendous experience in the military unit of the party, and therefore, after the Bolshevik coup, at the end of 1918, the leadership decided to use its combat potential and composure in practice - she became the head of the political departments of the 8th and then 13th armies of the Southern Front. The previously demoralized army, which was in a catastrophic and, it seemed, hopeless situation, turned into an almost exemplary combat cell. All this is largely due to the strict personal discipline of Zemlyachka: her working day could last up to 20 hours, she did not spare herself and demanded the same dedication from her subordinates, without thinking about the ethics or justice of one or another of her actions, but guided by considerations that the goal justifies any means.
        2. Olgovich
          Olgovich 1 June 2018 10: 11
          +3
          Quote: curvimeter
          In the artworks of women commissioners aroused sympathy...

          This is a deviation, IMHO.
          1. hohol95
            hohol95 1 June 2018 22: 33
            +2
            Would you like to "taste the commissar body?"
            “Well, who else wants to try the commissar body?”
            1. Olgovich
              Olgovich 2 June 2018 06: 31
              0
              Quote: hohol95
              Would you like to "taste the commissar body?"
              “Well, who else wants to try the commissar body?”

              Save me .... No.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 2 June 2018 11: 25
                +1
                Perhaps the tsarist army didn’t have enough of these “political workers” - who did not spare themselves and others! You look and the collapse of the army would not have happened!
                1. ser56
                  ser56 2 June 2018 15: 21
                  0
                  Not only the RIA, but also other armies in 1 and 2MB did without political workers ... there were enough priests ... hi And against the collapse of the army in the war there is one means - the tribunals ... see France in 1917. bully
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 2 June 2018 21: 16
                    0
                    The word political worker is in quotation marks! But it was precisely harsh and sometimes cruel measures in the army and industry that were probably not enough to avoid revolutionary upheavals ...
                    In the Russian Imperial Army there were mass tribunals and executions for "fraternization", for the surrender of positions, for the flight from the advanced command staff?
                    1. ser56
                      ser56 5 June 2018 12: 48
                      0
                      the word makes sense ... and yes, absolutely agree with you - the king was liberal to the impossibility .... recourse
                  2. Alexander Greene
                    Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 00: 37
                    +1
                    Quote: ser56
                    Not only the RIA, but also other armies in 1 and 2MB did without political workers ... there were enough priests ...

                    And in the Red Army they did without priests, there were enough political workers and they knew their job much better.
                    1. gsev
                      gsev 4 June 2018 23: 32
                      0
                      When the 2nd Pacific Squadron went on a campaign against Tsushima, everyone knew that death and defeat awaited them. But Rozhdestvensky during the campaign did not shoot a single deserter and led the fleet entrusted to him in readiness to adequately accept and endure the battle. And on the conscience of every average battalion commander there are more shot Red Army soldiers than on account of a skilled German sniper. The Germans in the Great Patriotic War were able to recruit entire armies from the defectors, of which the Vlasov ROA was distinguished by the fact that it fought less than others at the front. Turkestan, Crimean Tatar, Bandera, Baltic formations, the Kaminsky brigade, formations under the auspices of Krasnov were distinguished.
                      1. hohol95
                        hohol95 5 June 2018 16: 06
                        0
                        And were there deserters in front of Tsushima? Explain more!
                        In World War I, they also surrendered no less than at the beginning of World War II!
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 8 June 2018 19: 42
                        +1
                        Quote: gsev
                        And on the conscience of each average battalion commander there are more shot Red Army soldiers than on the account of a skilled German sniper.

                        Dear lie, but do not lie.
                    2. ser56
                      ser56 5 June 2018 12: 49
                      0
                      Not at all! RIA did not dally to Moscow like the Red Army request And the loss of radiation in 1MV suffered significantly less, some prisoners were 2 times less ...
                      1. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 8 June 2018 19: 45
                        +1
                        Quote: ser56
                        Not at all! RIA didn’t scoop up to Moscow like the Red Army. And the losses of RI in 1MV suffered significantly less, there were 2 times fewer prisoners.

                        How dark you are. Different eras, different wars. But if you like analogies, then please - the war of 1812, Moscow was even left. And how many times the Tatars captured and burned her ...
      2. Serg65
        Serg65 1 June 2018 08: 58
        +2
        Quote: Monarchist
        Vsevolod Veshnevsky was fascinated by her

        laughing So Gumelev crush on her, only changed his mind in time !!!
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 1 June 2018 10: 21
      +2
      Quote: Serg65
      Just a few lines ?? !!! But this event revealed the whole essence of Raskolnikov !!!

      I don’t remember - did you accuse Raskolnikov of espionage to Estonia? what
      Because he prepared and carried out the operation in such a way that he actually presented Estonia with two latest EMs. And, again, he remained alive - unlike his party comrades from the teams who were shot.
    3. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 6 June 2018 21: 25
      0
      Supplement did not affect repression. He was buried with honor in 1952, four years after retirement.
  8. Monarchist
    Monarchist 1 June 2018 08: 25
    0
    Quote: bober1982
    Raskolnikov himself was head over heels in blood, and such letters to him were worthless, like his sudden insight (of course he had a flair and sense of smell), but during perestroika they were very willing to print and discuss, it was necessary to “bring down” the USSR.

    Regarding Raskolnikov, I agree 100%
  9. Weyland
    Weyland 1 June 2018 12: 05
    0
    "The meaning of the operation was that it was necessary to return stolen the White Guards of the Caspian Fleet. "
    Who is stolen? Here are the Bolsheviks am never stole or robbed - they expropriated, requisitioned, nationalized and secularized! wassat
    As there Averchenko wrote 10 years before those events:
    “Surprisingly, it was precisely the influential princes and electors who liked Luther’s teachings. They especially liked the part of the teachings that proved that monasteries were not needed, that they could be saved without monasteries. In a fit of religious fanaticism, electors closed all the monasteries, and monastic property and land secularized.
    “Listen,” the monks objected, “why are you taking our good from us?”
    “We are not taking it away,” the electors were justifying, “but secularizing.”
    “Ah, then another thing,” said the reassured monks and, fleeing into the mountains, betrayed the Electors and Luther himself forever an indestructible curse ... "
    1. gsev
      gsev 4 June 2018 23: 38
      0
      Raskolnikov returned the stolen Caspian fleet to Russia, and did not give it to the White Guards to sell scrap to the Iranians or the British. The Black Sea Fleet - Wrangel and Pacific Fleet - Stark and his accomplices were sold and spent the rest of their lives in the West with good money.
  10. Weyland
    Weyland 1 June 2018 12: 09
    +1
    “Raskolnikov considered sailors to be second-class people. The sailors were starving, and the Baltic Fleet commander and his wife lived in a luxurious mansion, kept servants, ate delicacies and refused nothing to themselves. ”

    In our opinion, in Bolshevitsky: "Everyone is equal, but some are more equal!" laughing So it didn’t begin under Brezhnev, but under Lenin am - Stalin then pressed such “faithful Leninists”, but did not completely etch them, then they multiplied again!
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 6 June 2018 21: 29
      0
      Judging by the memoirs of Molotov, the top and under Stalin lived well.
  11. Weyland
    Weyland 1 June 2018 12: 36
    +3
    when the only way to prevent war is through the open entry of the Union of Soviets into the International Bloc of Democratic States, the early conclusion of a military and political alliance with England and France, you hesitate, wait and swing like a pendulum between two “axes”.
    Nostradamus, damn it ... wassat Poland entered into a military and political alliance with England and France - and boldly climbed into the fray. Fucking help her ally! laughing
  12. kalibr
    kalibr 1 June 2018 13: 07
    +1
    Quote: rkkasa 81
    And the fact that the Soviet government fought against those unworthy is only a plus to it.

    They fought, they fought, but only they themselves crashed! (The Tale of the Boy-Kibalchish)
  13. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 1 June 2018 13: 37
    +2
    In the letter of Raskolnikov - everything is true.
    1. Weyland
      Weyland 1 June 2018 13: 41
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      In the letter of Raskolnikov - everything is true.

      especially this: "the only way to prevent war is the open entry of the Union of Soviets into the International Bloc of Democratic States, the speedy conclusion of a military and political alliance with England and France"
      Poland concluded an alliance with them ... laughing
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 1 June 2018 22: 08
        +1
        After the outbreak of the war, this is precisely what happened: the USSR entered into an alliance with Britain and the USA.
        If such an alliance had been created before the German attack, then the attack itself would probably not have been. Poland is a small country, it was not reckoned with, but the USSR, having allies of the Anglo-Saxons, turned into an international "heavyweight".
        1. Weyland
          Weyland 2 June 2018 00: 14
          0
          Quote: voyaka uh
          Poland is a small country, it was not reckoned with, but the USSR, having allies of the Anglo-Saxons, turned into an international "heavyweight".

          But did the Anglo-Saxons need it? laughing Their main goal was voiced by Truman when he was a senator: "If we see that Germany wins the war, we should help Russia, if Russia will win, we should help Germany, and let them kill each other as much as possible."
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 2 June 2018 11: 31
            0
            This was the opinion of one of the 100 senators, nothing more.
            In fact: the USSR made a mistake before World War II in choosing allies and for this reason almost lost the Patriotic War.
            1. Alexander Greene
              Alexander Greene 2 June 2018 12: 54
              +2
              Quote: voyaka uh
              In fact: the USSR made a mistake before World War II in choosing allies and for this reason almost lost the Patriotic War.

              How much of this dregs can be replicated? Don't you know that France and England sabotaged the creation of the anti-Hitler coalition? You can’t create it by force. Therefore, the USSR, in order to somehow protect itself, had to go to a bilateral non-aggression treaty with Germany. Future allies took joint action with the Soviet Union only after they realized that they could not cope with Hitler without the USSR.
              1. ser56
                ser56 2 June 2018 15: 26
                0
                The pact is understandable, but why did you conclude a treaty of friendship and border with Hitler? feel
                1. Alexander Greene
                  Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 00: 38
                  +2
                  Quote: ser56
                  The pact is understandable, but why did you conclude a treaty of friendship and border with Hitler? feel

                  To delay the start of the war and gain time for rearmament.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh 3 June 2018 23: 03
                    0
                    But nothing happened. Hitler did not give time.
                    1. Alexander Greene
                      Alexander Greene 4 June 2018 01: 07
                      +1
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      But nothing happened. Hitler did not give time.

                      And if Hitler attacked in 1939? Would it be better?
                      1. ser56
                        ser56 5 June 2018 12: 52
                        0
                        He wouldn’t attack, because the Wehrmacht was weaker than the Red Army, and in addition, it had a second front in the form of France ... feel
                      2. Alexander Greene
                        Alexander Greene 8 June 2018 19: 48
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexander Green
                        He wouldn’t attack, because the Wehrmacht was weaker than the Red Army, and in addition, it had a second front in the form of France ...

                        How do you know? Churchill also thought. that Hitler would not attack them ...
            2. Sergej1972
              Sergej1972 6 June 2018 21: 30
              0
              The nitpicking is small, but .. At that time in the United States there were 48 states and, accordingly, 96 senators,
          2. ser56
            ser56 2 June 2018 15: 28
            +1
            Do we blame the British? they fought with Hitler for one year ... and were able to make the USSR suffer major losses ...
        2. gsev
          gsev 4 June 2018 23: 52
          0
          The non-aggression pact with Germany was concluded during the conflict on Khalkhin Gol, where the USSR or Japan alone seem to have lost more killed than Germany during the occupation of Poland. History does not tolerate the subjunctive mood, but perhaps World War 2 began with the joint aggression of Poland, Germany, Japan, England and France against the USSR. Baku oil then attracted everyone. The USSR has only 1 railway to the Far East. A group of skilled saboteurs from the White Guards, a simultaneous attack on Skovorodino, the decisiveness of the Japanese command, the case, and after 3 months the Far Eastern Front would be left without motor fuel and shells. So maybe the Non-aggression Pact with Germany gave the Jews a chance to survive in the 40s. The Poles could be with Hitler in one alliance. After all, they torn to pieces Czechoslovakia with him a year before.
          1. ser56
            ser56 5 June 2018 12: 54
            0
            You just wallowed in the Short Course ... request I recommend reading Churchill's memoirs, the alignment of forces at that time is well described ... For simplicity, ask yourself the question - why did Hitler attack Poland, and Japan did not attack the USSR? bully .
  14. Curious
    Curious 1 June 2018 14: 38
    +6
    An illiterate student wrote an article.
    "Raskolnikov escaped abroad". The combination of a noun that has retained a case form and a preposition acts as an adverb. It is written separately.
    "He served as envoy several countries " Plenipotentiary - a diplomat in the rank of envoy with special powers, for example: plenipotentiary of the RSFSR; Plenipotentiary of the USSR. Raskolnikov could be the Plenipotentiary only one country.
    In reality, the biography of this person is much richer and replete with events that still have not received an unambiguous interpretation. The author, however, was either in a hurry to make a quick whip and Vicki did not go further, or did not come out of puberty. In any case, it's time to tell the retelling from Wiki on the site in order not to waste time on this squalor.
  15. Doliva63
    Doliva63 1 June 2018 16: 03
    +4
    “Raskolnikov considered sailors to be second-class people. The sailors were starving, and the Baltic Fleet commander and his wife lived in a luxurious mansion, kept servants, ate delicacies and refused nothing to themselves. ”
    This is not a Soviet officer, there he is dear!
  16. Looking for
    Looking for 1 June 2018 19: 28
    +1
    And where is the evidence that this letter was written PERSONALLY !! Raskolnikov?
  17. nekromonger
    nekromonger 1 June 2018 19: 37
    +1
    when he wasn’t touched, he was pleased with everything, but stroked against the wool — horror all around. that’s how they were revolutionaries-adaptors. and now the same thing.
  18. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 2 June 2018 01: 47
    +2
    About Raskolnikov and his letter
    Raskolnikov was an unbalanced hysterical man, affected by the "difficult" childhood and origin. He was attracted to luxury, sybarism, he steal away in Bulgaria, and they demanded a report for the use of funds, after which he, fearing exposure, became a defector. But this is not the main reason. Having been captured along with the crews of the destroyers, the British saved his life alone, of course, for agreeing to work for British intelligence. When his brains went off, the British, seeing that there was no longer any good from him, organized a suicide for him.
    And his "famous" letter is an ordinary fake. Firstly, no one saw the original and no one ever did a graphological examination.
    Secondly, even though some Internet sources write that it was written and published abroad in 1939 year. But after reading the text of this letter, I came to the conclusion that this fake was written in the late 80's. under the leadership of the destroyer of the USSR Alexander Yakovlev, and published in the magazine "Spark".
    Here is a quote from a letter allegedly by Raskolnikov: “You are destroying one after another the most important conquest of October. Under the guise of combating labor turnover, you have abolished freedom of labor, enslaved Soviet workers by attaching them to factories. ”
    The fact is that the falsifiers by this meant the DECREE OF THE PRESIDIUM OF THE SUPREME COUNCIL of the USSR “About the transition to an eight-hour working day, a seven-day working week and the prohibition of unauthorized withdrawal of workers and employees from enterprises and institutions.
    Only now they did not take into account one circumstance. This Decree appeared a year after the death of Raskolnikov, namely 26 June 1940 of the year.
    The references in the letter suggest that Stalin extols the images of Russian heroes Alexander Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy, Alexander Suvorov, Mikhail Kutuzov:
    “Under the pressure of the Soviet people, you hypocritically reveal the cult of historical Russian heroes: Alexander Nevsky and Dmitry Donskoy, Suvorov and Kutuzov, hoping that in the future war they will help you more than executed marshals and generals”
    Based on what Raskolnikov could draw such conclusions? Where could he get this from?
    If the film about Suvorov was shot only in 1940, the historical novel by S. P. Borodin “Dmitry Donskoy” appeared in 1941, there was no film. The film about Kutuzov appeared already in 1943. After the conclusion of the 1939 Treaty, no one even stuttered about the war with Germany.
    I believe that only falsifiers who knew the subsequent development of history could write these lines.
    Or in a letter from RaskolnikovWhere is the best designer of Soviet airplanes, Tupolev? You did not spare even him. You arrested Tupolev, Stalin! ”
    I wonder if in those years Tupolev could be called the best designer? I doubt it. Firstly, there was a whole galaxy of designers, and it was difficult to single out anyone. Secondly, if anyone stood out, it was Polikarpov.
    I think no more need to quote this fake.
    1. ser56
      ser56 2 June 2018 15: 24
      0
      in fact, Polikarpov also sat, and the sentence - the execution was not removed from him until the end of his life ...
      1. Alexander Greene
        Alexander Greene 3 June 2018 01: 27
        0
        Quote: ser56
        in fact, Polikarpov also sat, and the sentence - the execution was not removed from him until the end of his life ...

        So what? Sat at the cause. But despite this, he was called the king of fighters. And about the punishment of the bullshit, look at least to Wikipedia.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 3 June 2018 23: 10
          +1
          "So what? I sat at the cause" ////

          A typical communist response. It’s good that this medieval darkness is over fellow
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 4 June 2018 01: 09
            +1
            Quote: voyaka uh
            It’s good that this medieval darkness is over

            Medieval darkness now, not then.
            1. ser56
              ser56 5 June 2018 12: 59
              0
              In your Ukraine, everything ... but in Russia everything is fine ... bully
        2. ser56
          ser56 5 June 2018 12: 58
          +2
          Do not voice for what business Polikarpov sat? Let me tell you - for the Industrial Party, which was not and on which the Bolsheviks dumped the sad results of the First Five-Year Plan ... By the way, before that in 1g he created the U-28 and P-2, the Chelyusky rescued at the last ... What a pest, however ...
          For me, Vicki is not the main source - read his biography in the 800s ...
          1. Alexander Greene
            Alexander Greene 8 June 2018 19: 53
            +1
            Quote: ser56
            for the Industrial Party, which was not and on which the Bolsheviks blamed the sad results of the First Five-Year Plan ...

            The sad results are the results of the 90s of the last century. And the results of the first five-year plan are the first Victory. But the industrial party was, and there was sabotage, and sabotage, everything was. It is now told that there wasn’t when the witnesses were already dying.
            1. ser56
              ser56 9 June 2018 15: 25
              0
              Do you yourself know the real total of the first five-year plan? bully
              If not a secret - Polikarpov’s sabotage was in the creation of the U-2 and R-5 aircraft? laughing
              Now the archives are open, but the fans of the Short Course remained, however this is not surprising, there were always enough fools in Russia ... request
  19. Catfish
    Catfish 2 June 2018 01: 49
    +2
    Quote: Monarchist
    Regarding Resner, Vsevolod Veshnevsky was fascinated by her and made her the heroine of one of his tales. Remember: "who else wants the commissar of whose body?"


    As for Lariska Reisner, this “young lady”, like all other left-wingers, propagated the so-called "free love of a woman free from bourgeois conventions." Priestesses of free love who receive money from clients are called prostitutes. Those who do this for free have a different name. Having arrived in Afghanistan with Raskolnikov, Madame Reisner immediately realized that she had "nothing to catch" there, and quickly got off from her husband, jumping into another bed. She would have jumped on these beds if a simple glass of milk had not put an end to her meaningless life.
    I don’t remember which of her contemporaries wrote: "A lady died in time, very on time!" That's for sure, she would not have survived the thirty-seventh year.
    But frolic, my lady. In St. Petersburg, hunger, cold and lawlessness, and Madame travels around the city at night with champagne and riding a white horse. I don’t know how Lady Godiva is, either in the commissar’s leather jacket and under Nagan.
    hi
  20. ser56
    ser56 2 June 2018 15: 18
    0
    rkkasa 81,
    just for fun read the biography of Gromyko and how he became a diplomat from a scientist ...
  21. ser56
    ser56 2 June 2018 15: 22
    0
    rkkasa 81,
    actually your opponent gives the data, and you are the only insults to him ... bully
  22. Catfish
    Catfish 2 June 2018 21: 13
    +1
    Quote: rkkasa 81
    Quote: Adjutant
    And why do we need these? Revolutionaries? Parasites incapable of normal life

    Then, in order to make one of the world's leading powers - from the backward, agrarian RI - the Soviet Union.
    Stalin, Dzerzhinsky, Molotov, Voroshilov, Kaganovich and many, many others - they were all revolutionaries, but they were not parasites. And the fact that among the revolutionaries there were not always people worthy of high posts, this is not surprising. And the fact that the Soviet government fought against those unworthy is only a plus to it.


    Do a favor, re-read the Strugatsky, or just read "It's Hard to Be a God." The quote may not be accurate, but the meaning is true: “All coups are made by the Grays, and then the Blacks will come to power” and crack down on the Grays, this is the law. The entire Robespieriad, the Reich attack aircraft and, finally, all the "Bolshevik-Leninists."
    History does not teach anyone. And who is stopping you from drawing real conclusions? hi
  23. Catfish
    Catfish 2 June 2018 21: 23
    +1
    Quote: Alexander Green
    About Raskolnikov and his letter
    Raskolnikov was an unbalanced hysterical man, affected by the "difficult" childhood and origin. He was attracted to luxury, sybarism, he steal away in Bulgaria, and they demanded a report for the use of funds, after which he, fearing exposure, became a defector. But this is not the main reason. Having been captured along with the crews of the destroyers, the British saved his life alone, of course, for agreeing to work for British intelligence. When his brains went off, the British, seeing that there was no longer any good from him, organized a suicide for him. .


    Here you are almost one hundred percent right, dear Green. Raskolnikov just scum, and even took a crackling "rattle". Did you see the old woman-performer in my dreams? I doubt that he even read Dostoevsky. But how did he manage to grab at once 2 (TWO) orders of the Red Banner? Did Lariska reward him through the bed again? I see no other options. hi
  24. Reinhard
    Reinhard 3 June 2018 08: 55
    0
    A muddy story. As for the letter to I.V. Stalin, he could not write it. maybe died. Could other "scribblers" to admonish.
  25. M. Michelson
    M. Michelson 4 June 2018 06: 02
    0
    Stalin, like Grozny, had his own Kurbsky. But they became not so much Trotsky as Raskolnikov. Who did a great job for the opponents of the Soviet regime: he wrote an open letter to Stalin, in which he presented him as an attacking figure. Stalin will rise from his left foot — he will destroy the left, and he will rise from the right — the right. Since then, the idea that Stalin’s struggle with the "opposition" was reactivethat until the end of the 30s he might not have been sure that the next night would not be the last for him, that he would not be arrested, arrested, and delivered to the same Bukharin, even if it never occurred to anyone . Fedor Fedorovich did a good job!
    Well, you really have to be completely zombie in order to believe in the falsification of the military conspiracy ("Tukhachevsky"), when the authorities seized the most famous military leaders without any preparation and put them to the wall as quickly as possible - just to be in time and not to allow the troops to be raised in their protection.
    1. Karenius
      Karenius 4 June 2018 23: 35
      0
      Quote: M. Michelson
      Well, you really have to be completely zombie in order to believe in the falsification of the military conspiracy ("Tukhachevsky"), when the authorities seized the most famous military leaders without any preparation and put them to the wall as quickly as possible - just to be in time and not to allow the troops to be raised in their defense

      There was preparation, and it was very professional ... first they took away the crusts of 5 thousand soldiers from among the red bastards from the civil era and their children, only then they could organize purgatory.
      _____
      I’m wondering: when the Russian march begins on the 24th, where will all these descendants of the Trotsky-Bukharin and their lackey si run off to?
  26. ser56
    ser56 5 June 2018 17: 52
    0
    hohol95,
    in 1MV RIA lost prisoners less than the Red Army for 41g ... hi
  27. ser56
    ser56 9 June 2018 15: 22
    0
    Alexander Green,
    if not a secret - how do you know about Churchill's thoughts? bully if you read his memoirs, then it says something completely different ... hi
    1. Alexander Greene
      Alexander Greene 9 June 2018 16: 11
      0
      Quote: ser56
      Alexander Green,
      if not a secret - how do you know about Churchill's thoughts? bully if you read his memoirs, then it says something completely different ... hi

      Firstly, all his actions were aimed at fostering Hitler for the campaign to the East. Secondly, here is his assessment of the 1939 Pact. "The impending storm was about to break out. Russia had to take care of itself."
      1. ser56
        ser56 13 June 2018 11: 51
        0
        1) Churchill never fostered Hitler - you read his books strangely - find what is not there
        2) are we about the pact? I'm on a friendship treaty with Hitler ...
  28. ser56
    ser56 9 June 2018 15: 29
    0
    Alexander Green,
    Compare the wars of the era of mass armies of the 20th century and the raids of nomads? bully that until 1812, the war was in full swing, the attack on St. Petersburg was repulsed, and most importantly, no one spoke of surprise ... bully
  29. Alexander Greene
    Alexander Greene 9 June 2018 15: 48
    +1
    Quote: ser56
    Compare the wars of the era of mass armies of the 20th century and the raids of nomads? that until 1812, the war was in full swing, the attack on St. Petersburg was repulsed, and most importantly, no one spoke of surprise ...

    Why are you outraged? It was you who began to compare the Great Patriotic War and the German War. I pointed out to you that it is not correct to compare the two eras and specifically cited an example according to your rules.
    1. ser56
      ser56 13 June 2018 11: 53
      0
      1) I am not indignant, I explain my position.
      2) My comparison is quite correct - the same people often fought on WWII and WW1 ... laughing
      3) You gave a strange example ... hi