Poem of Maxim (part of 4)

68
And again serve — two namesakes are friends,
And both call Maxims.
Again, just pointing the gunner,
With the maximum force beats.
"Well, well, well!" - says the machine gunner
"Well, well, well!" - says the machine gun!
Music: Sigismund Katz. Words: V. Dykhovichny. 1941


The very first instances of the use of machine guns in Africa showed what a powerful combat weapon it is. Naturally, even then, namely at the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries, European pacifists began to come out with demands to impose a ban on the use of machine guns, as frankly inhuman weapons. The reason, of course, was not so much their real peace loving, but the fact that Great Britain became the first colonial power, which revealed the advantages of this type of weapon, began to actively use it in clashes with poorly armed indigenous tribes, and well ... as a result, its territory, and earlier not small, began to grow literally as with leaps and bounds.




British soldiers with a machine gun in the Boer War.

One after another, collisions followed, in which the machine gun proved its effectiveness. So, on September 2, 1898, during the battle of Omdurman, the Anglo-Egyptian army of thousands of people in 10 met with the 100-thousandth army of Mahdi, consisting of the irregular Sudanese cavalry. It was a massive machine-gun fire that all its attacks were repulsed with huge losses, while the British units suffered minor losses.


Cecil Rhodes and his "gang" shoots "niggers."

The Russian-Japanese war was the first war in which machine guns were actively used by both warring parties. In the battles of Turenchen and Mukden, the Russian troops inflicted enormous losses on the Japanese machine-gun fire and also played a large role in the defense of Port Arthur. Losses in machine guns were great, but the effect of their use turned out to be so significant that they now began to be bought by the hundreds, despite the price exceeding 3000 rubles for a machine gun. At the same time, high wheel carriages were dismantled, and the machine guns themselves were placed on more convenient and mobile machines.


Russian machine gunners on the hills of Manchuria.

The experience of the war showed that it was necessary to increase the flatness of the shooting, which was also connected with the adoption of a three-line rifle cartridge with a new pointed bullet in 1908. On all machine guns for the new profile of the bullet immediately had to redo the chamber, increase the diameter of the hole in the muzzle sleeve, put a new sight. The machine gun itself was also decided to facilitate and create under it a single universal machine for both infantry and cavalry.

Poem of Maxim (part of 4)

Legendary battle near Turenchen. Fig. artist Samokisha.

In the summer of 1908, Mr. H. Maxim sent a new machine gun to Russia, which made it easier in weight to 18,48 kg. Then in July 1909, a model with a mass of 11,36 kg was received from Vickers. Its specialists were able to replace all parts made of bronze and cast iron with steel ones, they simplified the lock and changed its layout, which significantly reduced the size and weight of the machine gun box, made a new muzzle to it and added a number of other improvements. The new Vickers machine gun had a tripod machine and, together with the cartridge box, could easily be transferred by the calculation of three soldiers.


Machine gun and machine gunners Russian-Japanese war.

The Russian military liked the lightweight Vickers, but its tests in the middle of 1910 at the shooting range in the Officer Rifle School ended in failure. The company tried to improve the design, but nevertheless, GAU liked the “lightened” machine gun of the Tula plant more, although it was heavier than the English sample.


And this is our machine guns, but the Japanese trophies!

After testing the Tula machine gun, he entered into service with the Russian imperial army under the name “Maxim machine gun Maxim arr. 1910 G. ”with a wheeled field machine designed by Col. A.A. Sokolova. Indeed, it was seriously improved compared to its prototype, first of all, from the technological point of view, so it is unlikely that the statement that “Russian technicians created, in essence, a new machine gun” can be found in a number of Soviet-era editions. Not new, of course. However, financial relations with Vikkers, Sons and Maxim were reasonably revised after that, agreeing a corresponding reduction in remuneration. Now the position of the Military Council of 4 in March 1910 was: “Under the contract concluded by 9 in March 1904, by the Chief Artillery Directorate with Vickers, Sons and Maxim, pay 1 in January 1910 to the end of 23 in February 1915 in January 60 f. Art. instead of due to this contract 80 f. Art. for every finished machine gun. " At the same time, a new machine for filling machine gun belts with cartridges was designed and adopted.


The famous English "Vikkers" with a reduced box and lightened up utterly. York Castle Museum.

But the machine gun was really a completely new and original development, more than in any country not built. Its development began immediately after the Russian-Japanese war and was based on its experience. Many officers who dealt with machine guns offered their options, among which was the machine of Captain Sokolov, developed back in 1907. It was adopted under the designation “machine arr. 1908, ”but it is usually referred to in the literature as the“ Sokolov machine ”. Well, the serial production of the Maxim and the new machine began in 1911. Meanwhile, Sokolov also developed a machine-gun gig, which was absolutely necessary for transporting machine guns to the front line.

At the same time, machine guns on high-wheel-mounted machines of the early type remained in military schools as training facilities and, for example, were used by the junkers during the battles in Moscow that took place in October-November 1917.

During the First World War, the "Vikkers" fell on airplanes. The second machine gun (it is above the wing) very often became a “Lewis” with no stock and with the radiator removed, since in flight the barrel was well cooled by the flow of incoming air.

It was planned that when the whole program of production of "lightweight" machine guns arr. 1910 will be completed; the old Maxim heavy machine guns (sample 2790 and the British), which were in the 1905 troops, will be reworked, but only 1914 started this business. Under the new ammunition, the old machine guns didn’t have to be redone by the beginning of the war. That's it, so in the fall 1914 from Tula continued to demand "stupid ammunition ... for 100 heavy machine guns." However, the war showed that the level of 1000 machine guns achieved in the country per year was insufficient, although it was seen as the Russian military limit. Machine guns had to be ordered in England and the USA, however, these supplies did not cover the needs of the Russian army!


Upgraded "maxim". The famous wide casting neck, which allowed to fill the casing with snow and ice, and pour water into it directly from the bucket. I wonder why Maxim himself did not think of this simplest solution. Museum of the Penza State University.

During the First World War and then during the Great Patriotic War, "Maxim" was very widespread, primarily because its design was thoroughly tested. What could not be said, for example, about the new Soviet machine gun DS-39. They tried to raise the fire power of “maxim” with the help of paired, and then quadruple installations, used on armored trains, ships and even on the roofs of buildings. For airplanes flying at an altitude of up to 1500 m and at speeds up to 500 km / h, quad machine guns could conduct quite effective and dense fire. The same installations on armored trains and railway platforms were often used to directly support infantry.


The box is much wider compared to the Vickers box.

Whatever it was, but by the end of 1930-ies the Maxim machine gun was already morally obsolete. With a weight of about 65 to without cartridges to carry it across the battlefield was very difficult. In the summer there were difficulties with the supply of water. The cloth tape was difficult to equip, it quickly wore out, often torn and absorbed moisture. At the same time, a single machine gun of the Wehrmacht MG-34 had a weight of 10,5 kg without cartridges, it used a metal tape and it did not need water. Overheated barrel on it could be replaced. It was possible to shoot MG-34 without a machine, which ensured the secrecy of the position of its machine-gun crew. MG-42, which gave 1200 per minute shots, was even more perfect.


Attaching the machine gun to the machine was carried out at two points and was therefore quite tough.

On the other hand, "Maxim" had many positive properties. So, due to the fact that the work of his automation was unstressed, he was stable during the shooting, and had better accuracy than later models. In addition, they were comfortable enough to manage. If the machine gun was properly serviced, then it could have served twice as long as the intended resource, which was already much more than all the newer machine guns.


The sight was rack-mount.

It was precisely because of the problems with reliability and the complexity of production at the beginning of the war that the production of the DS-39 and the Tokarev self-loading rifle had to be abandoned. Simple and tested "three-lane" and equally "brought to mind" "maxim" turned out to be much more popular weapons in this difficult time.

Only in 1943, the SG-43 machine gun with an air-cooled barrel system designed by Pyotr Goryunov went into service, surpassing the “maxim” in many respects. However, the Maxim was produced until the end of the war in the Tula and Izhevsk arms factories, and it was in service until the end of the war. It is known that the last case, when the Soviet army used “maxims” in combat, took place in 1969 during the border incident on Damansky Island.


Machine guns "Maxim" in the Museum of the Patriotic Military Stories in Padikovo.

Naturally, such a long, and most importantly significant combat path of the Maxim machine gun in the Russian army led to the fact that he became a hero and an impressive number of books, and no less than the number of movies. The classic example was the film “Chapaev,” in which, in his very first frames, the gallant orderly of Vasily Ivanovich Petka from the cart draws from “maxim” to the white Czechs. And of course, this could well be, in any case, no one was forbidden. That's just one "but." The classic carriage had a suspension on soft springs, and the “maxims” of the times of the Civil War had a weight of more than four pounds. So when firing from the body of the cart, he began to vibrate noticeably, as he demanded a much stronger support than her seat.


Advertising poster movie "Chapaev".

And, yes - in the Civil War, machine guns on the carts were transported, it is a fact, but, according to the same instruction adopted at the same time, they were put on the ground for firing. Only after the end of the Civil War, so to speak, on the basis of its experience, a tachanka with a more rigid suspension appeared in the Red Army, not so shaky. At the parades, these carts looked very good, but in the battles of the Great Patriotic War they were practically not used. Do not forget that to ensure reliable operation of the "maxim" he needed the second number of machine-gun crew, which was supposed to send the tape at a right angle to the receiver. Without the help of this second number, the machine gun fire could have stopped at any time due to a misalignment of the cartridge.


So they, Anka, white animals, so! But without the second number, the tape can be jammed at the most inopportune moment.

And where is this second room could fit on the carriage? However, bad examples, as always, are contagious, and subsequently Petka found many imitators among the heroes of our cinema, who were sniper-struck from the carriages of Maxim, who were racing at full speed, on foot and horsemen!


The disadvantage of "Maxim" was his vulnerability ... Bullet holes easily brought him out of action due to the loss of water!

To be continued ...
68 comments
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  1. +7
    5 June 2018 06: 31
    During the First World War, the "Vikkers" fell on airplanes. The second machine gun (it is above the wing) very often became a “Lewis” with no stock and with the radiator removed, since in flight the barrel was well cooled by the flow of incoming air.

    The USSR also produced a lightweight air defense machine gun made by Nadashkevich on the basis of the Maxim machine gun.
    “The first attempts to use the 7,62 mm Maxim machine gun on an airplane date back to the period 1915-1916. However, it was not widely used in aviation. This was primarily due to the heavy weight of the machine gun. Work on remaking the machine gun“ Maxim ”A.V. Nadashkevich, pilot and aircraft designer of the Moscow Aviation Plant, began working in the aviation industry in 1923. Initially, it was conducted at the Aviarabotnik plant, and from the Tula arms factory in 1924. Engineers P.P. provided great assistance to the designer in this work. Tretyakov and I.A. Pastu s, was directly involved in its modernization in 1910, as well as S.A.Yartsev. " http: //aviaru.rf/aviamuseum/dvigateli-i-vooruzhen
    ie / aviatsionnoe-vooruzhenie / sssr / aviatsionnye-pul
    emety / aviatsionnyj-pulemet-pv-1 /
    1. avt
      +3
      5 June 2018 08: 04
      Quote: Amurets
      The USSR also produced a lightweight air defense machine gun made by Nadashkevich on the basis of the Maxim machine gun.

      A ,, handbrake "from World War I German performance in
      To be continued ...
      will be? In general, the second day of the illustration is pleasing! Yesterday, the Belgians with a machine gun on a dog’s stub, today shaved with a ,, maximum "on a stool! bully BUT! I demand the cycle to end with a TACHANKA bully
      1. +7
        5 June 2018 09: 23
        Quote: avt
        A ,, handbrake "from World War I German performance

        Well then, you can add a machine gun Maxim Tokarev 1924

        In the photo, the will of the machine gun F.V. Tokarev with his son Nikolai
        “After the end of the civil war, it was decided to create a light machine gun based on the design of Maxim machine gun model 1910, which was to become the main weapon of the rifle squads of the Red Army. At the same time, the“ reworking ”machine gun with an air-cooled barrel was considered a temporary phenomenon, since he had considerable weight and did not fully meet the requirements for a light machine gun. " http://smallarms.ru/article?arms=mt
        1. avt
          +3
          5 June 2018 11: 37
          Quote: Amurets
          In the photo, the will of the machine gun F.V. Tokarev with his son Nikolai

          bully With the exception of the butt, here they saw from a three-line ruler, it’s MG-08/18! OH! YES! They also removed the handle from the barrel cover, which is convenient for carrying over short distances. Well, actually on this
          Quote: Amurets
          the creation of a light machine gun based on the design of the Maxim machine gun machine, model 1910,

          and over.
        2. +1
          5 June 2018 20: 47
          Who wants to read about the MT machine gun right now can do this by following the link:
          https://topwar.ru/75991-ruchnye-pulemety-mk-i-mt.
          html
      2. +2
        5 June 2018 20: 28
        A ,, handbrake "from the First World German performance in will be?

        Here for the seed MG 08/15 in dynamics. smile
    2. 0
      5 June 2018 20: 33
      Yes, it would be very good, but still about Maxim LMG 08/15 Zeppelin would tell. smile
  2. +5
    5 June 2018 07: 20
    And, yes - machine guns on carts were transported during the Civil War, this is a fact, but, according to the instruction adopted at the same time, they were put on the ground for firing
    .
    A special instruction was developed for shooting precisely from the cart, otherwise the meaning of the whole device was lost - sudden fire from the flanks with the support of their equestrian attack or the attacking cavalry of the enemy.
    For rearguard battles, removing a machine gun from a tachanka, moving a wagon into a shelter, adjusting it if necessary, loading a machine gun would mean the death of an inevitable calculation. There were no fools then.
    And where could this very second number fit on a cart?

    For example, Budyonny’s shivers, phaetons, etc. were specially developed and there were no problems with placing the second number.
    1. +5
      5 June 2018 09: 49
      Here, by the way, is a photo of the "official" cart

      And the Makhnovists / in one battle used up to 300 kulemets - a terrible effect / not
      bother - the second number was the driver, standing nearby / of course, "worked"
      not on the move.
      1. +4
        5 June 2018 15: 35
        Yes, the Makhnovsky machine-gun regiment is an unpleasant thing. Barbovich can confirm.
        Here is another photo:

        In the "MARCH" mode - on the seat w ... to w ... they fit themselves quite well. In combat mode - as in your photo.
  3. +3
    5 June 2018 07: 33
    In the last photo, the machine gun is clearly out of order, not only because of damage to the water casing ...
    1. +3
      5 June 2018 08: 21
      But the hole in the casing is clearly visible.
      1. +3
        5 June 2018 10: 05
        There is not one hole in the casing, a dozen typed.
  4. +5
    5 June 2018 07: 37
    It is known that the last case when the Soviet army used “maxim” in battle took place in 1969 during a border incident on Damansky Island.
    In battle, probably not, not counting the Donbass ... But back in the 80s they were in the URs in the Far East.
    For some reason, everyone is extolling MG rate of fire. But this is about two ends - rather on the defensive, yes, but on the offensive? Zamyatsya ammunition drag and replenish ...
    1. +3
      5 June 2018 10: 06
      And if you recall the famous shooting "on matches". And also do not forget that Maxim was in the serf version (i.e. with a water pump)
      Here again, it is necessary that these two machine guns were created for two different purposes and with a difference of several decades for different concepts of battle.
      Maxim is a weapon of defense, and MG is an attack. Both that and another within the limits of the task by fine samples.
  5. +6
    5 June 2018 08: 26
    Dear Author, as always, I missed something, not knowingly, I hope. I mentioned the effective use of Maxim by the British against the natives and immediately jumped to the Russo-Japanese war. And where is the Anglo-Boer? It was after it that a boom of interest in Maxim arose.
    1. +4
      5 June 2018 10: 39
      Quote: andrewkor
      And where is the Anglo-Boer

      I completely agree ! I myself wanted to “ask!” The history of the Boer War is interesting in many ways! It happened at the junction of 2's “eras”: both in time and in transformation ... This applies not only to machine guns, but also to the role of artillery, infantry fighting formation in offensive combat, and camouflage ....
      1. +3
        5 June 2018 11: 26
        This is a separate topic. She was illuminated on VO and what, again to return to it, for the sake of one machine gun? It is hardly advisable.
        1. +2
          5 June 2018 12: 05
          Should at least be briefly mentioned. I would expand the horizons of controversy!
        2. +2
          5 June 2018 15: 49
          Quote: kalibr
          This is a separate topic. She was illuminated on VO and what, again to return to it, for the sake of one machine gun? It is hardly advisable.

          Got it ...
  6. +3
    5 June 2018 11: 30
    Quote: andrewkor
    , as always, I missed something, not consciously, I hope

    And to show everything is simply physically impossible! And then ... do you have a photo of Maxim (machine gun) in the Boer War? Surely not, because there are very few of them. More photos of 37 mm guns. But that was just about it. Even on the sites of museums in South Africa they are not. And without photos what to write? What did they show themselves well? This is so everyone knows!
    1. +5
      5 June 2018 13: 02
      "... do you have a photo of Maxim (machine gun) in the Boer War?"
      Is.
      1. +4
        5 June 2018 13: 03
        But not the "Maxim" was used by the British in the Boer War.

        British soldiers with a Colt machine gun during the Boer War.
        1. +4
          5 June 2018 13: 09
          The second photo should go to the potato digger material. And the first ... it’s not too typical. At the beginning of the article is given better!
          1. +5
            5 June 2018 13: 20
            "The second photo should go into the material about the potato digger. And the first ... not too typical. At the beginning of the article, it’s better!"

            Please, typical. The English machine gun team of the Boer War.
  7. +2
    5 June 2018 13: 01
    I would like to say a few words about the usefulness of “Maxim” as a machine gun with water-cooled barrel, it fits perfectly into the arms of the bunkers. This feature was used to ensure forced circulation of water in the cooling casing, and the Finns in their bunkers on the lines of fortifications and the Russians. But, for example, the French and Czechs had to put sparks from air-cooled machine guns in the main firing sectors and ensure fire in turn from each to ensure the continuity of fire.
    As an example, a photo of a Finnish bunker , photo of one of the pillboxes of our Karelian fortified area and machine guns from the Czech bunker.
    1. +3
      5 June 2018 13: 05
      Two photos in one comment on the site does not fit.
      1. +3
        5 June 2018 13: 09
        Sometimes it breaks in, sometimes not! Why is that?
        1. +2
          5 June 2018 13: 21
          I don’t know who the site’s functional was doing, but it’s better "one koment - one photo."
          1. +4
            5 June 2018 15: 11
            I've been talking about this for a long time. Moreover, someone opens two, someone only the last. It’s easier to make a few answers. hi
            1. Cat
              +4
              5 June 2018 21: 23
              Greetings to all, as always, I'm in the curtain! Two articles in a row - happiness !!!
              1. +3
                5 June 2018 21: 48
                but I knew that GlavPushman would come! wink He cannot but come to articles about "maxim"! drinks yes, a good cycle. Yes I bow to both the Author and the participants hi
  8. +6
    5 June 2018 14: 33
    It was precisely because of the problems with reliability and the complexity of production at the beginning of the war that the production of the DS-39 and the Tokarev self-loading rifle had to be abandoned. Simple and tested "three-lane" and equally "brought to mind" "maxim" turned out to be much more popular weapons in this difficult time.

    SVT had a problem not in the reliability and complexity of production - by the beginning of the war the rifle was already mass-produced, and the jambs of previous versions on it were generally eliminated.
    The problem was different - the rifle was too complicated for the average ordinary shooter. The problems did not even begin at the stage of adjusting the gas regulator - but even earlier, during disassembly, cleaning and assembly. In simpler words, Sveta required regular care, without which it began to fail. It was these malfunctions that were usually issued as unreliable rifles.
    To understand - in what hands the SVT fell into the Red Army of that time, I will quote from documents based on the results of the KOVO check in 1940:
    In parts of 97 SD rifles manufactured in 1940. , which were on hand for no more than 4 months, up to 29% are reduced to a state of rust in the barrel, machine guns "DP" manufactured in 1939 to 14% also have a deterioration of the barrel channels.
    The knowledge of ordinary cadets is low. They do not know automatic weapons at all and are only able to carry rifles and pull the trigger. To great shame, and chagrin, cadet regiment schools have lesser knowledge of small arms than the knowledge of the Red Army, and yet despite this they are issued by junior commanders.
    There is no need to talk about the rules, cleaning weapons, and their inspection by younger commanders.
    This situation should be, since the commander, having no knowledge of small arms, cannot transfer them to his subordinates and demand knowledge from them when he himself does not know him.

    The neglect of the instruction on the storage and preservation of weapons in the units of troops, ignorance of the automatic weapon structure, its disassembly rules brought to such a state that the automatic rifles "ABC", submachine guns "Degtyarev" when they were disassembled, were hardened, started in gas ways , the entire vent assembly is rusty, the barrel surface and other parts are heavily rusted. The same state of gas paths and the machine guns "DP"

    135 sd - The technical condition of the weapon is unsatisfactory, with the exception of 791 sp. Small arms in the division from 13 to 40% require military repairs. Especially poor technical condition of weapons in 497 joint ventures, 184 hap, 168 obs. The care and saving of small arms is unsatisfactory in all parts of the division. The increase in the susceptibility of barrel channels to rifles from 10% to 77% ...

    87 sd - Upon examination, they were rusty in the bore, on the outside or dirty with a coating under a bed of sand, garbage and even oats and hay: 1019 rifles, 381 Nagan revolvers, 24 DP machine guns, 13 Maxim machine guns, 15 - 50 mm mortars and 4 120 mm mortars
    . © Drag Precha, Ulanov and Shein
    1. +2
      5 June 2018 15: 41
      And what do you want from the "victorious hegemons"? Such reports came upstairs constantly. The level of culture was not just low, but terribly low. In the book "Without Secrets and Secrets" about J.Ya. Kotin wrote how in the 1942 year near Leningrad the 2 tank regiment failed. Engines scored ... Stalin personally sent Kotin to understand. He found filters trimmed with scissors! There is sabotage, wrecking! And they say to him - "and this is our front-line ingenuity, so the engine starts easier!". But about the women who hammered screws with sledgehammers into Yakovlev’s planes, it’s completely banal. Recently, I read, one ... leaked gas from the current tank and went to cook it. Buck, of course, exploded!
      1. +2
        5 June 2018 15: 47
        I found an order for KOVO 1940: No. 0349 Operation of tanks ("... in order to save the material part of heavy and medium tanks (T-35, KV, T-28, T-34) and" maintain them in constant combat readiness with with the maximum number of motor resources "for training personnel in driving and shooting, knocking together tank units and formations it was allowed to spend 30 hours per year for each vehicle of the combat training fleet, combat - 15 hours. All tactical exercises were ordered to be carried out on T-27 tanks ..." )
        And how many orders related to drunkenness there ... I began to count in the list of annual orders ... lost count! In fact, the fathers of the commanders did not command people, but ... some "humanoid animals", relying in their behavior on the spinal cord. Accordingly, they belonged to them ...

        For example, in the 1940 year, there was such a case, as reflected in Order No.95-103 on BWOs: In 2 sd, during the march of 200 joint venture to the place of new deployment, the deputy company commander for political unit ml. political instructor Boykov unauthorizedly shot the Red Army Senin, who, after committing 110 km of the march, broke his legs and told Boykov that he could not go into service. Boykov, not paying any attention to this statement, ordered to catch up with the company and when Senin refused to catch up with the company, he shot him and buried his body in the ground right there.
        There was no war yet! What happened in the war? However, there are also orders for extrajudicial executions in the war. And a lot ...
        1. +3
          5 June 2018 16: 47
          Quote: kalibr
          I found an order for KOVO 1940: No. 0349 Operation of tanks ("... in order to save the material part of heavy and medium tanks (T-35, KV, T-28, T-34) and" maintain them in constant combat readiness with with the maximum number of motor resources "for training personnel in driving and shooting, knocking together tank units and formations it was allowed to spend 30 hours per year for each vehicle of the combat training fleet, combat - 15 hours. All tactical exercises were ordered to be carried out on T-27 tanks ..." )

          The order is well known and for that situation is absolutely correct. Tactical exercises can be successfully conducted even with motorcycles instead of airplanes and passenger cars instead of tanks - the Reichswehr confirms. smile
          But new engines for HF can be expected for a very long time - the production of diesel engines exceeds the production of tanks by only 10%, and their service life only slightly exceeds the hours required for training the crew to drive a tank. So you have to spend the resource of linear tanks only in exercises, and training materiel to carry out on the machines of the combat training park, for which there are at least a diesel engine.
          1. +1
            6 June 2018 03: 27
            Quote: Alexey RA
            Tactical exercises can be successfully conducted even with motorcycles instead of airplanes and passenger cars instead of tanks - the Reichswehr confirms.

            Quote: Alexey RA
            So that you have to spend the resource of linear tanks only in exercises, and training materiel to carry out on the machines of the combat training park, for which there are at least a diesel engine.

            Strange conclusions! Reichswehr as an example? The Reichswehr conducted exercises with plywood “caps” on cars and motorbikes not because it was better; but because Germany was forbidden to have large tank units after the post-war (1MB).
            Can I replace the passenger cars? And the trenches, ditches, eskarpy, kontr.eskarpy also overcome in passenger cars .... to study? And the fords ... hogs on forest roads.? Moving on dirt roads after weekly rains in spring? And learn to shoot ... how and when without leaving the field? Or do it only with a training class and simulators ... (now ...)?
            1. 0
              7 June 2018 10: 44
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Strange conclusions! Reichswehr as an example? The Reichswehr conducted exercises with plywood “caps” on cars and motorbikes not because it was better; but because Germany was forbidden to have large tank units after the post-war (1MB).

              And what does it have to do with better or worse? I write that tactical exercises can be successfully carried out on non-standard equipment - an example of which is the Reichswehr. And the reasons for the lack of full-time equipment can be any - from legal to technical.
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              And the trenches, ditches, eskarpy, kontr.eskarpy also overcome in passenger cars .... to study? And the fords ... hogs on forest roads.? Moving on dirt roads after weekly rains in spring? And learn to shoot ... how and when without leaving the field

              This does not apply to tactical training. And I, in fact, wrote about the tanks of the combat training park - on which individual training of crews should be practiced (and co-ordination of platoons - if the engine life remains).
              1. +1
                7 June 2018 14: 27
                Quote: Alexey RA
                This does not apply to tactical training.

                I understand what you want to say ... Learn to “keep the system”, to interact with each other, to clearly execute commands, to “retreat” correctly, disperse, concentrate, etc. etc ..... And anyway ... it's a "surrogate" (cars, motorbikes) even for such cases! How to learn to "maintain" battle order, clearly follow the command vehicle in a passenger car in a terrain crushed into mud ? As soon as the Germans broke international treaties and began to create "real" tank troops, they began to produce training (!) T-I tanks. Good idea! And they still use this idea! (Outdated armored vehicles may be used as training armored vehicles ...)
      2. +7
        5 June 2018 16: 53
        "What do you want from the" victorious hegemons "?"
        I would not be surprised if Olgovich wrote this comment. Everything is clear there. But then you Vyachislav Olegovich, it seems you still haven't parted with logic. But the army after the revolution and after was the same "hegemon". Or did everyone go to RIA with a university diploma? So statistics on literacy level somehow do not allow such conclusions to be drawn.
        But she says that a significant part of the qualified workers of the "Society of Electric Lighting 1886" manned from German citizens due to a shortage of those in St. Petersburg - in the capital.
        And about the women with the sledgehammers ... I assure you - put you on the simplest assembly operation on the conveyor belt, where three nuts for three bolts are screwed in - your "ants" will undergo great deformation.
        1. +1
          5 June 2018 17: 19
          Yes, the work on the conveyor - there are friends on the former "Stinol", now "Indeset" ... Horror wolves ... crying
        2. +2
          5 June 2018 17: 28
          By the way, in the book "Without Secrets and Secrets" I do not remember the indicated episode. And you can’t cut the filter in the tank with scissors.
        3. 0
          5 June 2018 21: 44
          You read how, in orders for BVI, commanders muzzled soldiers, and they shouted back to them that ... under the tsar the muzzle was beaten, and now what? A lot of interesting things there. I only brought an order there about Boykov, but there are hundreds of reports. But there were other districts ... So I don’t need to talk about “intellectuals from the plow”.
          1. +3
            5 June 2018 23: 32
            Vyacheslav Olegovich! You skillfully take the conversation aside, turning everything along the way upside down. Nobody spoke of any intellectuals from a plow, a plow, a lobogreyka, or other agricultural implements. And about scuffle, too. The level of gray soldier mass was discussed. You are pleased to notice that the victorious hegemon is only much more likely to break the technique. I noticed that the non-victorious hegemon was exactly the same. Following your maxim, the tsar did not start in the army aircraft, cars, tanks, so as not to break? You either respond in substance or agree that the comment was unsuccessful. Recognition of one’s own mistake is the lot of strong people.
    2. +5
      5 June 2018 21: 57
      That there 1940, recently familiar with higher technical education asks to see a trimmer - it won’t start. I ask: when did THAT? - Never in 3 years.
      I disassemble - all filters are clogged, parts hang out - gaskets pass gases, soot is everywhere. Cleaned, washed, pulled up - the machine started up with a half turn. I ask: how do you prepare the fuel mixture? - Well, I’ll splash oil into gasoline and stir it. In short - the proportions were not respected, hence the soot. And you were talking about soldiers in 1940 - 41. Luley would have been ordered out by commanders for the maintenance of equipment and weapons - and the SVT would have turned out to be good and the tanks would not stall on the march.
      1. 0
        7 June 2018 11: 10
        Quote: Cetron
        Liuli would be ordered out by commanders for maintenance of equipment and weapons - and the SVT would be good and the tanks would not stall on the march.

        So for this we need commanders who themselves are versed in technology and weapons. The main difference between the Red Army arr. 1940 from the SA model of times "developed stagnation"just that in SA there was someone to teach replenishment. And in the Red Army, the level of training of youngsters would sometimes be even lower than the level of training of ordinary soldiers:
        The knowledge of ordinary cadets is low. They do not know automatic weapons at all and are only able to carry rifles and pull the trigger. To great shame, and chagrin, cadet regiment schools have lesser knowledge of small arms than the knowledge of the Red Army, and yet despite this they are issued by junior commanders.

        A simple example: in the BTW KOVO before the war, a third of the junior commanders had only 3 classes of education or had no education at all.
        How can such a junior lieutenant ask the subordinates?
        Unfortunately, there are still such commanders as Jr. Lt. Comrade. a namerek (791 joint venture), which has only 6 rifles in the unit, and upon inspection all the rifles were rusty, his personal Nagan revolver was also rusty, in the drum of which there were three spent cartridges. Revolver, according to the statement of Jr. Lieutenant Comrade namerek, not cleaned after shooting for 3 months.

        Or to whom and what can the commander who ordered to refuel the T-34 with gasoline write out? wink
  9. +1
    5 June 2018 16: 00
    In the white house when Maxim was taking him.
    1. +3
      5 June 2018 16: 56
      Did Viktor Sukhorukov command a machine-gun platoon?
  10. +5
    5 June 2018 16: 50
    Faded gentlemen, comrade machine gunners! I have them more ample and colorful! laughing
    1. +4
      5 June 2018 17: 01
      I have them more ample and colorful!

      that's right! good all fluffy-elegant, and without underwear under the skirt! fellow drinks
      1. +2
        5 June 2018 17: 03
        Miners !!! Children of GOR ... In a word, Dunkins McCloud! They are underpants unnecessarily! Wash more if you stain in the heat of battle ... good
        1. +5
          5 June 2018 17: 46
          By the way, I’m extremely unsure that your underwear, friends, wouldn’t need washing if you got into such a mess like these guys with a photo at the Battle of Magersfontein. This machine-gun team lost almost all its personnel, but did not flinch.
          1. +2
            5 June 2018 18: 17
            There is nothing wrong with that! War, it consists of dirt, sweat, blood and other unpleasant things!
      2. +4
        5 June 2018 19: 22
        Quote: Mikado
        all fluffy-elegant, and without underwear under the skirt!

        Scottish warriors wear skirts,
        Under which there are no cowards.
        They are braver than anyone in the world
        They will drive the English dogs away.
        © Rowan Tower
        1. +4
          5 June 2018 22: 02
          Alexei, you use literature better than me. hi there was some Scottish officer during the Second World War, he served in the landing. Going ashore, he played the melody in the bagpipes, and then went forward with a broadsword and a bow in his hands. It seems that many orders have earned. what Here are the first and last names .. I do not remember! request But the original was still that! soldier
          1. +2
            5 June 2018 23: 42
            John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, better known as Jack Churchill. Interesting personality. Really a hero. He lived for 90 years. On the site about whom they just do not write, about witches, about serial killers .... Delirium is complete. And not a word about such people.
            1. +3
              6 June 2018 00: 03
              Thank you for your help, Viktor Nikolaevich! love but as always! drinks Yes, the man was the most interesting - a hero with a reckless component. soldier
              1. +2
                6 June 2018 00: 10
                Their three brothers were. Everyone fought. The younger died.
          2. +3
            6 June 2018 00: 12
            From the filing of Victor tracked down -
            Jack Churchill died quietly in his home in Surrey in 1996, at the age of 89. In a long happy marriage with a Scottish woman Rosamund Denny, he had two sons, Malcolm and Rodney.


            His SWORD!
            Jack Churchill was born in Hong Kong, graduated from the Royal Military Academy in Sandhurst, and served for ten years in the Manchester Regiment in Burma. He was mainly involved in the army in that he drove a motorcycle from end to end on the Indian Peninsula (he once traveled 1500 miles from Pune to Calcutta), annoyed commanders (“How dare you go out with an umbrella to watch ?!” “But it's raining, sir! ”) and learned to play the Scottish bagpipe. By the way, he learned very well: at the British piper contest in 1938 he took second place, being, by the way, the only Englishman among 70 participants. He also did excellent archery and, thanks to his talents, even starred in several films, including the Baghdad Thief. Jack was such a good archer that in 1939 he represented Great Britain at the World Archery Championships. But more than anything, he loved two things - war and Scotland. When the war broke out, Jack, who had retired by that time, rejoiced and ran to run as a volunteer. Of course, he took the bagpipe, bow and sword with him.
            In May 1940, near Bethune, France, having attacked a German patrol with his Manchester regiment, Churchill gave the signal for an attack by shooting an enemy sergeant major with a bow - a unique case in the history of World War II. For the courage shown in this battle, and for saving the wounded British officer, Jack was awarded the Military Cross. After France, Jack enrolled in the commando unit, not knowing exactly what it was doing, but deciding that in any case he would be given ponzazzo in full.
            In 1941, he participated in a British special operation, Operation Archery, and when landing on the Norwegian island of Vogsøy, he stood on the bow of the ship, playing on his bagpipe, the Cameron's March. As the landing ship approached the shore, Jack was the first to rush forward with a sword in his hand, emitting war cries. The garrison and the artillery battery of Maley surrendered quickly.
            1. +5
              6 June 2018 00: 37
              Friends, but I did say that only two people on the site can look for information like that. wink Yes, and that is both of you! drinks just don’t get too proud, both of them! wink
              1. +3
                6 June 2018 01: 29
                In 1999, the British gave the eldest daughter about him when they lived in Bulgaria. Sorry, stayed there. And it is impossible to remember the name of Churchill. By the way, some kind of distant relative.
                1. +2
                  6 June 2018 02: 54
                  Quote: Curious
                  By the way, some kind of distant relative.

                  Churchill? That's because ... And I have a minister among my relatives. laughing
  11. +2
    5 June 2018 18: 54
    The battle of Omdurman is somehow not impressive. It turns out the English archers were no less effective.
    1. Cat
      +2
      5 June 2018 21: 28
      Yeah, there’s a couple more "maxims" and Aless Fantasy will trample it so .. !!!
  12. +1
    5 June 2018 21: 49
    Quote: Curious
    Or did everyone go to RIA with a university diploma? So statistics on literacy level somehow do not allow such conclusions to be drawn.

    I will tell you so - both there and there was one garden root. Only later covered by loud demagogy. And there the commanders of the muzzle beat the soldiers the same way, under the tsar, under the Soviet regime! At least in the 1940 year, they muzzled them and even shot them. True, the same Boykov received for the murder of the Red Army soldier 10 years. But the last was little consolation!
    1. +3
      6 June 2018 00: 26
      For example, the commander of the 433rd anti-aircraft artillery battery located almost on the edge of the strike, Lieutenant F.I. Deineka, having received at 21:07 an order to open fire, began to request by phone permission not to open fire, so as not to attract the attention of enemy aircraft. While they explained to him why he was there, airplanes flew over the battery with impunity.

      Everything was! And it is happening to this day ...
  13. 0
    6 June 2018 18: 25
    Quote: Alexey RA
    The problem was different - the rifle was too complicated for the average ordinary shooter. The problems did not even begin at the stage of adjusting the gas regulator - but even earlier, during disassembly, cleaning and assembly. In simpler words, Sveta required regular care, without which it began to fail. It was these malfunctions that were usually issued as unreliable rifles.

    In addition, the banal economy played - it was much more complicated and more expensive than the usual three, and weapons were required a lot and quickly.
  14. 0
    20 August 2018 17: 54
    Grandfather bequeathed to be away from machine guns. He said that in the war they attracted the attention of the Germans and the machine gunners did not live long.