Su-57 long arm: February launches laid expensive shoulder offspring from Lockheed

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A number of extremely controversial events for the Lockheed Martin military-industrial corporation in the export sales sector of the X-NUMX-generation F-5A Lightning II multi-purpose fighter jets remembered the past six months. In our previous work, we considered the details of acquiring the initial combat readiness of these machines in the Japan Self-Defense Air Force, where, in connection with a solid US lobby, the Government of the Land of the Rising Sun decided to freeze the ATD-X low-profile promising fighter aircraft, in every sense of the word. Shinshin "and focused on a simpler proposal of the American corporation" Lockheed Martin "to develop a somewhat simplified export hybrid F-35A and F-35A and pack F-22A. Nevertheless, as we were able to find out, the capabilities of the AN / APG-35 radar complex of the F-81A fighter in terms of the detection range and capture of typical airborne objects are far from unique and cannot be compared with the domestic Irbis-E radar of Su-35C fighters, and also with the most advanced H35 “Belka” complex of the inconspicuous Su-036 fighter.



Consequently, the technological and tactical substantiation of this contract lies exclusively in the only thing - the creation for the Japanese F-35A of a promising long-range air combat missile based on an integrated rocket-ramjet engine, which will noticeably exceed the Russian RVV-SD in range and RVV-BD in maneuverability and speed margin. This is exactly what the joint Japanese-European commission from Mitsubishi Electric and MBDA Missile Systems is doing now. Meanwhile, to expect a brilliant success in the prospect of further pushing "Lightning" through intergovernmental foreign military sales (FMS) on the Asian and European arms markets is absolutely not worth it for two reasons that are somehow interconnected.

Firstly, it is the presence of such states where the US lobby has a much lesser impact on the defense sector than in Japan, Australia or the United Kingdom. Secondly, these are not perfected shock capabilities of the F-35A, according to which, for example, our promising aviation the Su-57 front-line aviation complex surpasses the advertised American aircraft by its head. Thirdly, this is a recent incident with the Israeli F-35I “Adir”, indicating the absence of that unique stealth (EPR of 0,005 sq. M), which American and Western European media like to talk about.

Let's start with the first item. Here, it is most appropriate to cite as an example Turkey, which has at its disposal such trumps as complete control of the most important regional military-economic artery represented by the Bosphorus and Dardanelles, as well as a comprehensive influence on the operational situation in the northern provinces of the Syrian Arab Republic, where Ankara has a noticeable the military-technical superiority over the MTR units and the US Marine Corps, as well as the French marin units that arrived in the eastern regions of the SAR at the beginning of 2018. Due to this, the Turkish leadership has the opportunity to periodically impose its rules of the game in the Syrian company both on Washington and Moscow. This is manifested both in the recent justified statement by Turkish President Recep Erdogan about "plunging the world into darkness with the filing of Washington, who lost the status of mediator in resolving conflicts in the Middle East", and in continuing the cynical support of the militants of the Free Syrian Army in the Idlib gadushnik, which is clearly not in favor of the Syrian Arab army and Moscow, but it provides the Turkish army with an excellent base for further seizing Syrian territory in the provinces of Latakia, Hama and Aleppo.

This is also well manifested in the free choice of a supplier of armaments for updating the country's air force and air defense. In particular, the official Ankara absolutely spat on the extremely negative position of the Pentagon regarding the contract between the Ministry of Defense of Turkey and Rosoboronexport for the supply of C-400 Triumph missile systems. After repeated threats from the US Congress, Ankara decided not to stand on ceremony in retaliation of the contract for the supply of the Republic of Turkey 100 F-35A in Ankara and reminded Washington of a wonderful alternative. Reminder reflected in news from the Turkish edition of "Yeni Safak" about the possible acquisition of a large batch of multipurpose heavy fighters of the 5 generation Su-57 in the export version. Naturally, this is not a final decision, but an extremely serious warning that makes Americans think carefully about the consequences of all sorts of threats and pressure on the customer.

It is noteworthy that literally one day before this news appeared in the Turkish media, a meeting of the Russian Defense Ministry Board was held, which once again sowed an impressive share of doubts about the high tactical capabilities of the American F-35A against the background of the Russian Su-57, and absolutely not by chance. It is here that lies the second reason for the likely export difficulties of “Lightnings” in those states that are not tied to “Foreign Military Sales” tightly. We are talking about the publication of the video, which captures the February launch of a prototype of the X-59MK2 multi-role long-range tactical missile from the Su-57 fighter, tested in the Syrian theater of operations. According to Sergey Shoigu, the head of Russia's defense department, several launches of these missiles confirmed their previously declared combat potential. As you can see, the statement is very standard, without an extra share of pathos or advertising. But what do we see in fact?

The launch of a promising unobtrusive tactical cruise missile is carried out from the second intra-fuselage central armament compartment with a length of about 4,7 m and 1,2 width. that one compartment (taking into account the mechanism of opening / closing of the valves and the mechanized suspension assembly) can accommodate 59 missiles of this, while two compartments - 2 X-400МК2; A very serious strike ammunition for the next-generation multipurpose fighter, isn't it? Against this background, the F-4A looks extremely pale. Today, its relatively small internal weapons bays allow to place only such “smart” air-to-surface weapons, such as: 59 guided bombs of the AGM-2A / C JSOW family (Joint Standof Weapon ”) with a range of up to 35 km at launch from high altitudes, small-sized guided bombs GBU-2 / 154 / B "Small Diameter Bomb - I / II" (the so-called "narrow bombs" with an effective dispersion surface of the order of 130 square meters and a range of 39 km) in the number of 53 units , as well as various modifications of guided bombs of the family JDAM with the appropriate sets of aerodynamic ridges, steering wheels and GPS-correction systems.

The only thing that Lockheed Martin, together with the Norwegian Kongsberg Defense Systems, can oppose to our Su-57, is the final development and adaptation to the two “close” inside-body compartments of the Lightning tactical missile JSM with a range of more than 300 km developed on the base the well-known anti-ship NSM especially for the Norwegian Air Force. Another option is the tactical long-range missile AGM-154C-1 Block III (JSOW-ER), developed on the basis of the above-described planning bomb AGM-154A / C. Its feature is the presence of a Hamilton-Sundstrand TJ-150 turbojet engine, thanks to which the product range increases from 130 to 560 km.


Standard suspension configuration F-35A


The flight tests of the JSOW-ER demonstrator took place back in October 2009, however, the operational combat readiness of this missile in the US Air Force is still not reported, except for a lonely message in the command of the US Navy that the finalization of the product continues . The conclusion here can be made only one: the tactical missiles JSM and JSOW-ER can enter the ammunition fighter F-35A "Lightning-II" no earlier than 2022-2024 of the year. In particular, it is these terms that are indicated by the resource www.armstrade.org (“The World Trade Analysis Center weapons") With reference to Western sources in relation to the Norwegian JSM rocket, because for its software integration into the F-35A weapons control complex, an update of the QCS software to the Block 4A / B version is required, which currently, if it exists, is absolutely raw. "Form.

There is another “shock configuration” of the suspension for the F-35A, which includes placement of the AGM-2B JASSM-ER 158-s tactical ultra-long-range tactical missiles at the outer nodes at the root parts of the wing, capable of hitting targets at a distance of 1000-1200 km. But here there is a double-edged sword: having a hull width in 550 mm, JASSM-ER, due to external placement and considerable aerodynamic resistance will have a very negative effect on the range of the F-35A fighter. Thus, the extremely modest combat range of the machine in 1080 km can be reduced to 900 - 850 km, which ultimately gives the “depth of impact” of AGM-158B missiles to the entire 1800 - 2000 km. Moreover, the whole “airborne” airborne technical and tactical problems are added. For example, when placing a JASSM-ER on an external sling, there can be no talk of a high supersonic cruising speed (≥1,3М).

The maximum that pilots with a similar shock arsenal can count on is 1000-1050 km / h in cruise mode. Such an important factor as aerodynamic quality, represented by the ratio of lift to aerodynamic resistance of a fighter at a certain angle of attack, will drop to extremely negative marks. It is known that in the absence of external suspension assemblies for the F-35A, the aerodynamic quality factor is about 8,8 units, while for the Su-57 and F-22A it is 12,2 and 12 units. accordingly, based on the data of the updated table “paralay_tab” of the resource “Stealth Machines”. It is easy to assume that the lightly maneuverable Lightning, which lost far more than one training dog dump F-16C and F-15C / E, will become even more cumbersome if during the execution of the strike mission from the tactical aviation of the enemy, air combat will be imposed on him. Do not forget about the limitations of the load on the strength of the strength of the structural elements of the F-35A after the appearance of such massive "cylinders" JASSM-ER under the wings.

Against the background of these difficulties, our Su-57 comes out as the undisputed winner in a tactical and technical duel with F-35A. The 25% lighter (770 kg) tactical missiles X-59МКХNUMX completely retain their internal position: the highest aerodynamic quality of the PAK FA, allowing you to effectively carry out anti-missile maneuvers and participate in air battles without a serious reduction in flight performance; 2 - 1700 km combat range, providing "depth of impact" with X-1900MK59 missiles to 2-2300 km, given that the modification of the advanced Gadfly-MK for the Russian Aerospace Forces has a greater range than the version for export.


Sketch of the Su-57 airframe and intra-armament armament compartments in three projections: the position of the RVV-SD, RVV-BD and RVV-MD air combat missiles, as well as the X-XNUMHUSHK and X-58MK59 anti-radar missile


If before the Su-57 link, a complex multi-purpose task is set up with gaining air superiority and simultaneously delivering a point strike at strategic enemy targets, each vehicle can take X-2MK missiles and 59 missiles into the first or second central intra-weapon compartments air-to-air class of medium and long-range RVV-SD (“Product 3-170”), as well as 1 melee air combat missiles RVV-MD, located in small wing inflow compartments. The vaunted F-2A will not be able to effectively carry out a multipurpose mission either in the case of the external deployment of AGM-35A / B tactical missiles (the fighter’s LTH will decrease), or in the case of the internal deployment of JSOW-ER or JSM.

With this configuration, the compartments will be fully occupied and the air combat missiles AIM-120C-7 / D will have to be placed on the external suspension points, which will dramatically increase the effective reflective surface of the F-35A to 0,4-0,5 square meters. And this is in the presence of the enemy powerful surveillance radars with passive and active ground-based and air-based phased arrays, as well as modern on-board fighter radars certainly do not contribute to the total superiority of the F-35A in modern air theater of operations.

Information sources:
https://www.popmech.ru/weapon/425602-su-57-zapustil-ovoda-v-sirii/
http://rbase.new-factoria.ru/missile/wobb/agm158/agm158.shtml
http://bastion-karpenko.ru/missile-h-59mk/
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  1. +17
    31 May 2018 05: 43
    Yes, from the very beginning it was clear that the F-35 is a very expensive toy ... Here the key word ... a toy ... And you can add a computer ... The brilliant operation of our special services ...
    1. +16
      31 May 2018 07: 38
      Just do not understand why the old X-59MK2 (development 70s operation since 1980). Even after all the upgrades with fairly mediocre performance characteristics (I would say frankly weak). Presented in the article as a miracle weapon.
      PS Damantsev, of course, an asterisk. But in this article of his, there are more "unfounded assumptions" than usual
    2. +11
      31 May 2018 07: 53
      Proud of "unfinished" without military victories so far too early. But there is already something in it. winked
      1. +3
        31 May 2018 13: 11
        Yes, yes, we will give ratings very much later! Although I would like to be wrong, Schaub very much later, quickly!
    3. +3
      31 May 2018 15: 12
      Quote: Vard
      Yes, from the very beginning it was clear that the F-35 is a very expensive toy ... Here the key word ... a toy ... And you can add a computer ... The brilliant operation of our special services ...

      How did you determine that the F-35 is a very expensive toy. Whether they themselves collected intelligence on it and investigated the design with materials and devices, or one of the developers said.
      It did not occur to me that this could be a deliberate throwing of negative information regarding this product in order to sow doubts about its quality both from the manufacturer and potential buyers.
      In war, all means are good for discrediting the enemy, and I think that our intelligence also uses this method.
      1. +9
        1 June 2018 13: 40
        Quote: credo
        It did not occur to me that this could be a deliberate throwing of negative information regarding this product in order to sow doubts about its quality both from the manufacturer and potential buyers.

        Everything is quite the other way around - the USA itself has not yet adopted it, but they are pushing this unfinished "miracle machine" into everything. That is why they praise him in every way. Of course, you can’t say that this is a complete guano, but there’s nothing to praise it.
  2. +6
    31 May 2018 06: 31
    Foo 35s more and more ... And even “sniff” our planes with this prodigy will soon be able, for example, with the Israeli in Syria. Well, our S-400 will "look" at them. And after that we’ll talk. laughing
  3. +21
    31 May 2018 06: 58

    Our pictures are the best :-)
    In the photo of the euon Fu35 there are a lot of rockets, already in the eyes ripples.
    But on the sketch of SU57 all 4 are harmoniously circled in pencil.
    That's all analytics :-) and you don’t need many letters.
    1. +4
      31 May 2018 07: 15
      And what can your ukrovoyaki provide?
      1. +10
        31 May 2018 07: 20
        your ukrovoyaki eat the last fat
        1. +1
          31 May 2018 15: 19
          Why are the namesake changing flags? Is it hard to go to VO from VNA? Encrypted?
          Quote: Dimka75
          your ukrovoyaki eat the last fat
    2. 0
      27 June 2018 23: 51
      50 has 4 compartment. Two on the sketch can be seen clearly, even in the wings of the wing there are two under the air-to-air.
  4. +15
    31 May 2018 08: 34
    "....... it will become even more clumsy if an air battle is imposed on him during an attack mission from the tactical aviation of the enemy. Do not forget about the overload restrictions on the strength of the power elements of the F-35A structure after the appearance of such massive" cylinders "JASSM-ER under the wings ......."
    ========
    In fact, the author forgot to mention that the presence of such "overall products" on the external suspension of the F-35, the practicality, completely deprives him of one of the "trump cards" - stealth!!!!
    And so - the article (+)!
    1. +11
      31 May 2018 14: 07
      Quote: venik
      In fact, the author forgot to mention that the presence of such "overall products" on the external suspension of the F-35, the practicality, completely deprives him of one of the "trump cards" - stealth !!!!

      I have repeatedly said that the F-35 is not a military product, but an economic one. They suck in everyone they reach.
      As my father used to say, a good thing does not need advertising. And F-35 advertise in every way.
      1. +5
        31 May 2018 19: 29
        Quote: NEXUS
        I have repeatedly said that the F-35 is not a military product, but an economic one. They suck in everyone they reach.
        As my father used to say, a good thing does not need advertising.

        ===========
        Bravo!!! Your Father is the WELLEST person! My - also used to say - "advertising - not a" trade engine "- but a way to" get in "a" rotten product "!!!!
        1. +6
          31 May 2018 19: 37
          I understand wise thoughts are great. So they already carry out combat missions successfully, and you all laugh .....
          1. +9
            31 May 2018 21: 23
            Quote: Shahno
            I understand wise thoughts are great. So they already carry out combat missions successfully, and you all laugh .....

            Combat missions against whom, can I ask?
            1. +6
              31 May 2018 21: 52
              Combat missions against whom, can I ask?

              I’m more interested in the question of which war is involved in Israel.
            2. +6
              31 May 2018 22: 10
              Andrew, hi , well, the Jews are ignorant of what they have done, well, to hell with them. They boast of their electronics, well, let them. In the case of a “bug boom,” they will have to rely on Moses, and not on their electronics.
          2. +5
            31 May 2018 23: 05
            Basayev, too, after taking hostages, told reporters "a military operation was carried out"
          3. 0
            31 July 2018 10: 37
            === So they already carry out combat missions successfully, and you all laugh ..... ===

            And what are you talking about ??
            In which battles did this trough participate?
            How many combat launches were made, for what purposes, how many of them were successful?
            What disadvantages and advantages were revealed during combat use?
        2. 0
          1 June 2018 13: 33
          You and your fathers a place in the USSR, and there
        3. 0
          2 June 2018 06: 00
          It’s also a way to grow your business. Find money for development and improvement. Although, in relation to f35, I would not talk about any potential for improvement.
  5. +5
    31 May 2018 09: 14
    So everything is fine and beautiful. When will all this beauty be the basis of the Air Force? And will it be? And the rocket needs a new one ...
    But also informative, "+".
  6. +5
    31 May 2018 09: 21
    So I want to add ... we will throw caps!
  7. +11
    31 May 2018 10: 57
    Well, what did you all get to the penguin? Already found out, the project is economic. Purely from a military point of view, a universal workhorse, moderately inconspicuous, not very fast, but not a failure at all. The only thing that amers couldn’t do was make it inexpensive (but this was already mentioned). You can not compare it with the F-22 and Su-57. This is not his class rivals initially.
    1. +1
      31 May 2018 15: 34
      Quote: Rafale
      Purely from a military point of view, a universal workhorse, moderately inconspicuous, not very fast, but not a failure at all. The only thing that amers couldn’t do was make it inexpensive

      To some extent, apparently, perfectionism remained. In electronics, radar, network-centrism.
  8. +6
    31 May 2018 11: 26
    Great analysis.
  9. +8
    31 May 2018 11: 41
    Which of the fighters is more effective, only real air battles will prove.
    1. +1
      31 May 2018 23: 19
      IFIs in modern realities are for the most part tactical bombers and carriers of the WTO. An IFI hawk can only be in a conflict with a confrontation between technically equally equipped armies - in all other cases it is a bomber and a carrier of the WTO.
  10. +9
    31 May 2018 12: 03
    why is my faith in our miracle a weapon weakens after a question ... when and how much .. apparently the fashion went to cartoons ... piece copies are propaganda ... an example with the Dagger - Iskander ... but how they brought it to the public
    1. +3
      31 May 2018 23: 31
      Su 57 in modern realities is so far meaningless - at least in the conditions of our doctrine.
      All that the su 57 can do is perfectly performed by the aircraft already in service, such as the su 30-35 and su 34. If you evaluate the su 57 as well as f 35 from the IFIs, then yes su 57 will be able to replace all the dryers and hawks and bombers as well as f 35 - it will replace everything that the Americans have. But it’s a matter of time and expediency - drying at full height becomes a wing and their resource will not be used up very soon because there is no point in su 57 right now or tomorrow.
      Regarding the Dagger complex - this is a real working complex - which is already there, with the shock characteristics of hypersonic weapons - how much is needed ... I think it’s very small - after all, it’s essentially a launcher of the Iskander complex only flying 3000km on fast and furious. Obviously, this is a good supermobile strike complex - which will be very effective in the RF’s distances because it is possible to strike anywhere in a matter of hours (especially if the fuel rod is screwed). What will be the quantity - I think a few dozen - they will be able to replace hundreds of ground-based Iskander systems and will give operational time gain when striking.
      Regarding Su 57 - I think the main catch for today is still promising weapon systems - to hang on a new board everything that carries Su 35 and Su 34 stupidly to disgrace - you need new weapons. so to speak, wunderwaffles that will reveal the potential of the su 57 primarily as a bomber and carrier of the WTO.
      1. +1
        2 June 2018 17: 05
        the launch of the Iskander rocket at a speed of 3000 .. does not give it 5-12 Mach. Why did you say about propaganda ... the country's economy is killed .. look at Russia's GDP ... 13 world economy
        1. +5
          3 June 2018 19: 09
          there are about 200 countries in all. 13th place is also a result - given some features. In terms of the transition from "communism" to socialism, recently + serious logistics problems + extreme climatic conditions in industrial and mining areas. In general, worthy.

          And even at the time of the global crisis - Russia rearmament of nuclear weapons and the army, and the process goes further. While the burghers count how many dozens of helicopters they have in service, we have been building a hundred a year for a year

          And our economy is not killed. Obama thought that he was "killed almost to the end" and made oil at $ 25 to "finish off" it and suddenly ... Our economy wasn’t killed

          The social obligations undertaken - the government holds. they also began to pay for the birth of a child, even this year they began to pay 10k newborns per month.

          That is, even a new load appears with new programs on the budget at the time of the global crisis + a lot of large-scale construction projects throughout the country.

          Even plants worth $ 20 billion are being built. Modernization is underway at almost all refineries. And how many reactors are being built around the country, there is already floating floating on the water.

          And you're all about the dead economy. In general, sprinkling ashes on the head was the mainstream of the 90s. You are stuck.
      2. 0
        14 July 2018 11: 16
        "Regarding the Dagger complex, this is a real working complex - which is already there, with the shock characteristics of hypersonic weapons - how many are needed ... I think it’s very small - because it’s essentially a launcher of the Iskander complex only flying 3000km on afterburner."
        ===================
        It means that the MiG-31, whose production technology is now lost, accelerates the rocket to such a speed? Then please show the spot landing clip with a dagger under the belly. Or tu-22m3m? Duc and speed are less, and also grave digging (life extension with the existing 40-year-old tu-22m3). So the su-57 for the Dagger, at least with the engine of the 1st stage, in the conditions in which the Russian Federation found itself, is the most (relevant)
  11. +3
    31 May 2018 12: 21
    Ever since the first F-35 info appeared, its computer saturation has been noticeably sticking out, and it has become its Achilles heel. The flight qualities and skill of the pilot were, as it were, "retracted" into the background and the outcome of the battle was supposed to be decided by computers .. Ha !!! ??? Not guys ... the pilot and the car itself are not outdated yet your iron-coffins will fall will be pouring rain ..
    1. +1
      31 May 2018 15: 39
      Quote: Nikolai Kuznetsov
      his computer saturation markedly bulged out, but she became his Achilles heel

      Well, yes, they complained that the plane spontaneously rebooted the on-board computer. And if this happens during the battle?
      1. 0
        5 June 2018 18: 19
        Quote: uskrabut
        Quote: Nikolai Kuznetsov
        his computer saturation markedly bulged out, but she became his Achilles heel

        Well, yes, they complained that the plane spontaneously rebooted the on-board computer. And if this happens during the battle?

        Software on the 95th Windows ...?! belay laughing
  12. The comment was deleted.
    1. +1
      31 May 2018 15: 42
      Quote: Sema
      if they can’t provide the Russian army.

      It seems that the military has not yet decided on the need for this aircraft. It's expensive, but in terms of efficiency it seems not much better than 4 ++.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +1
          1 June 2018 00: 55
          Especially about the "crashed." Eugene traditional thanks for a good article!
      2. +2
        31 May 2018 23: 42
        You are absolutely right all the tasks set for today will perfectly perform drying 30-35 and su 34, even the old man su 24 is still being used. The stealth nature of the machine is needed exclusively for working on foreign territory; there is no sense in it; the enemy will be shone with powerful ground radars and AWACS aircraft, and hawks will fly with the radars turned off, this tactic has always been used very successfully.
    2. +1
      31 May 2018 21: 16
      one crashed

      Did I miss something? From this moment in more detail.
      And yet, if it was 10, but it became 5, then apparently they lost 5, not 1.
    3. +1
      31 May 2018 23: 39
      what year are you a citizen of - su57 has been riveted for more than a dozen years apart from machines for ground tests. two cars went through combat tests in Syria. The machine is ready for adoption into service all the questions only to the MO what they want. There is no limit to perfection - all the same, after an installation batch of a dozen or two, the car will be improved; a new batch will be released; the next one will be finalized - we have always had the evolution of airplanes. Take the same su 27 and modern su 35 - there is practically nothing in common in airplanes, but su 27 is the progenitor of su 35 that has undergone multiple modernizations.
  13. +4
    31 May 2018 13: 01
    Quote: Nikolai Kuznetsov
    Ever since the first F-35 info appeared, its computer saturation has been noticeably sticking out, and it has become its Achilles heel. The flight qualities and skill of the pilot were, as it were, "retracted" into the background and the outcome of the battle was supposed to be decided by computers .. Ha !!! ??? Not guys ... the pilot and the car itself are not outdated yet your iron-coffins will fall will be pouring rain ..

    On the one hand, yes; even Boris Safonov said that it doesn’t matter, they say, what kind of an airplane it is - it’s important who is in the cockpit. This is a kind of axiom.
    The other side: the axiom for a fighter is also the fact that "the one who saw the first is the first to bring down." Who will see whom first with their radars in relation to one or another "stealth" of both - "Penguin" "Drying", or vice versa - we do not know, and we can’t know until their first clash, long years of waiting ... We can only assume the foundations of a variety of data - each his own, or spread "rumors to the minds," as in that song ...
  14. +5
    31 May 2018 13: 24
    In short, we will tear all who doubt. It remains to put a couple of hundred Su-57s into the troops and everything will be fine, only with this, I think, a hitch will come out, in 10 years at least we will have 200 Su-57s in the troops? I doubt very much
  15. +6
    31 May 2018 14: 12
    Plans are pink, birch crosses. Everything is excellent in pictures and cartoons - “there are no analogues in the world”, but in the end we get the blacksmith’s aircraft carrier and the shell ..
    1. +2
      31 May 2018 19: 24
      Quote: Joe Formosa
      but in the end we get a blacksmith aircraft carrier and a shell.

      Kuznetsov, let's say, didn’t speak out very much, but “Shell” didn’t please you? The fact that without ammunition and crew was destroyed?
      well what about
      Quote: Joe Formosa
      Everything is excellent in pictures and cartoons, - "there are no analogues in the world"

      partially agree. This molasses is already clogging our ears and of course gives us a reason to kick us like you when something does not add up. Just do not forget that while you had everything chocolate, our defense industry was sitting on a starvation diet. So now there may be some euphoria.
    2. +2
      31 May 2018 23: 50
      So what is wrong with Kuznetsov - you generally know how many sorties were made from an aircraft carrier during his stay off the coast of Syria, what is the total bomb load that was dropped, what is the scale of the tasks except for the drums that the wing crews performed.
      The crew of the aircraft carrier Kuznetsov coped with all the tasks assigned to him - with what kind of oenka I think this is a question to the general staff there are more competent specialists. If you are relatively lost vehicles - well, that's fine - this is the first combat campaign of this type of ship for the entire duration of the project. The fact that the ship went after a trip to repair and modernization is also understandable - jambs appeared in real combat conditions will eliminate them. There are 0 claims to the wing.
      Well, what about the carapace, I didn’t understand what it was about - it’s one of the best air defense systems in the world, and it went through baptism of fire.
      1. +1
        2 June 2018 17: 01
        and given the price / quality ratio of Shell, the effectiveness of such a complex is simply magical.
  16. +4
    31 May 2018 14: 15
    All this is good and pleasing, but all this crosses out the amount of su57 request
  17. +3
    31 May 2018 14: 31
    Wow! From Damantsev optimistic and positive article)
    and then everything in the style of "everything is gone - the plaster is removed, the client leaves" wrote laughing
  18. 0
    31 May 2018 16: 25
    Unfortunately, so far the whole issue is being solved by the small number of our aircraft ... They will be crushed by the number of adversaries ....
  19. +2
    31 May 2018 17: 33
    What would the Su-57 put on the shoulder blades of the expensive offspring of the Lockheed. The Su-57 should be in serial production and the troops should have at least a hundred or two such aircraft.
  20. +7
    31 May 2018 18: 13
    Quote: Sema
    About Su-57 alone talk nothing. They made five units, one left four crashed and then they can’t bring it to mind, though in theory he has already defeated almost all existing fighters. What kind of supplies abroad are we talking about if the Russian army cannot be provided.


    Well, actually not 5, but 10 flight units of 5 units - this is the prototype of the 2nd stage. And about the crashed - where did they get it from? Not a single Su57 crashed. There were 2 accidents: the sensor failed in the first, in the second fire, the plane was not seriously injured and after a minor repair flies again. Serial production of the aircraft has not yet begun; for testing, the available quantity is above the roof.
    And the question of who is better or worse is completely meaningless, because the Su57 is certainly better than the competitor. F22 - development of the 90s, at least for this reason it simply can not in any way surpass the Su57. Su57 takes into account all the shortcomings and shortcomings of the F22.
    But the Americans failed to make the F35 better than the pope, specifically relaxing during a period of absolute lack of competition in the 5p fighter segment. So the Su57 appeared just at a time when it could very easily surpass any, at the moment, analogs.
  21. +3
    31 May 2018 18: 34
    It’s like with tanks - the Yankees and I do our “products” for different tasks, what's the point of comparing?
  22. 0
    31 May 2018 19: 06
    In short, I summarize: F-22A and F-35A - have a rest.
    1. 0
      1 June 2018 17: 57
      Throw yourself, throw your hats
  23. +3
    31 May 2018 19: 18
    Amazing optimism for this author. Su-57 is probably a strong aircraft. Because of secrecy, I think we don’t know much about him. It’s just not clear why the author compares aircraft of different classes. Su-57 is a heavy fighter and it would be correct to compare it with a classmate F-22.
    1. 0
      31 May 2018 21: 37
      Well, yes, and the F-35 apparently with the Yak-141. The F-35S has a declared maximum take-off of 30 tons (from open, obviously wrong sources). In general, they are compared, from the point of view of the most likely meeting on the theater, only this makes sense, and not that "what is better to buy."
    2. 0
      1 July 2018 10: 32
      Again, problems with terminology!
      Lightweight F-35 has a maximum take-off weight of 30 tons (empty weighs 13-15 tons, depending on model)
      Su 57 empty weighs 13,7 tons (the difference is not at all critical :-), max. take-off -37 tons.
      At the same time, the penguin is single-engine, with a wing load of 600 kg / m2!
      The Su-57 has two engines and a wing load of 380 kg / m2
      Feel the difference!
      Which of them is “heavier” is still a very big question! I will never believe the “Norwegian aces” that a penguin with such a wing load is comparable in maneuverability to the F-16!
      To assign a single-engine aircraft to light fighters and a twin-engine aircraft to heavy - in my opinion, a strong simplification, no?
      The thrust of the only penguin engine on the afterburner is 13 tons, two at the drying - 22 tons!
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. +1
    2 June 2018 17: 26
    Where is it about stealth?
    1. LMN
      +4
      3 June 2018 13: 41
      Quote: zenion
      Where is it about stealth?

      What does this stealth do not give you peace? what
      Well, our designers do not consider it to be fundamentally important. I am sure this issue has been studied up and down.
      “If it arrives somewhere, then it decreases somewhere.” This means an increase in invisibility, affects other characteristics of the product. And judging by the fact that the Russian Federation still exists, it is very successful, and meey has no reason not to trust our designers winked
  26. +2
    3 June 2018 18: 20
    Quote: helmi8
    Quote: credo
    It did not occur to me that this could be a deliberate throwing of negative information regarding this product in order to sow doubts about its quality both from the manufacturer and potential buyers.

    Everything is quite the other way around - the USA itself has not yet adopted it, but they are pushing this unfinished "miracle machine" into everything. That is why they praise him in every way. Of course, you can’t say that this is a complete guano, but there’s nothing to praise it.

    - Well, how was it "not accepted for service" - several battle squadrons have already reached the level of full readiness, everything should be issued for the US Air Force, US Navy and US ILC 2443 aircraft of three modifications. Plus, more than 600 aircraft - for allies around the world.

    Poking your nose in the nose, it’s easy to say the maxim that the USA in such an abominable way “undress and strip” all its partners all over the world, but the main and overwhelming majority of these aircraft is the United States itself! That is: they shit themselves ??! laughing lol

    Come up with something funnier?
  27. +3
    3 June 2018 18: 31
    Quote: LMN
    Quote: zenion
    Where is it about stealth?

    What does this stealth do not give you peace? what
    Well, our designers do not consider it to be fundamentally important. I am sure this issue has been studied up and down.
    “If it arrives somewhere, then it decreases somewhere.” This means an increase in invisibility, affects other characteristics of the product. And judging by the fact that the Russian Federation still exists, it is very successful, and meey has no reason not to trust our designers winked

    - Yes, it will already pretend to be inadequate, - the designers perfectly understand everything about the significance of stealth, the problem is simply that with Russian technology there is no way to reach the level of American stealth aircraft, here is the official propaganda and pours the blizzard into the heads of careless Russians that "since we don’t have this, then we don’t need this!"
    Only this utter lies, children, in the Russian General Staff understand everything perfectly, therefore no attempts, unlike the airy skies of Korea and Vietnam to "knock on fists" from the Yankees in Syria are made. And it’s not at all due to the cowardice and weak-willedness of the Commander-in-Chief - everyone knows that the Most Serene will has just reinforced concrete! angry It was just that he was informed not of the garbage that is being sent to all of you, but the true balance of power and explained that the F-22nds of any Russian fighter will "tear like a Tuzik a heating pad" into small pieces. Therefore, in Syria there are no air battles with the Americans and (you will laugh!) with a probability of 99.99% never will be ... request
  28. +2
    3 June 2018 18: 46
    Quote: The Laughtermaster
    Well, yes, and the F-35 apparently with the Yak-141. The F-35S has a declared maximum take-off of 30 tons (from open, obviously wrong sources).

    - And why are the "infidels" something? Itself would take and count, laziness, or what?
    F-35C:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-3
    5_Lightning_II # Specifications_ (F-35A)
    empty weight - 15,686 kg
    fuel in internal tanks - 8,901 kg
    weapons in the compartments - 1,135 kg
    armament on pylons - 7,076 kg
    parachute pilot - 100 kg
    Сумма: 15,686+8,901+1,135+7,076+100=32,898 kg.
    But this, of course, is a maximum maximorum and it is unlikely to ever be required to really take off with such a weight. But in principle - it is possible.

    Any of the 4 catapults of atomic aircraft carriers allows you to throw an airplane weighing up to 40 tons at speeds up to 300 km / h.

    So what are the problems? What are they in? Where is the "plug"?
  29. +1
    3 June 2018 18: 49
    Quote: Doliva63
    It’s like with tanks - the Yankees and I do our “products” for different tasks, what's the point of comparing?

    - And then they meet on different TVDs and battlefields, or are they all the same ?? lol wassat
  30. +6
    3 June 2018 18: 55
    Quote: wisealtair
    And the question of who is better or worse is completely meaningless, because the Su57 is certainly better than the competitor. F22 - development of the 90s, at least for this reason it simply can not in any way surpass the Su57. Su57 takes into account all the shortcomings and shortcomings of the F22.

    - I.e: if now in Papua New Guinea they create a semblance of a Su-35, then it will be a priori better, because newer ?! laughing lol fool

    In Russia, there is still not a single serial radar with AFAR - in the United States there are already several thousand, the first, for the F-22, was created about 25 years ago, 21 year as in the series.
    The "second stage engine" for the Su-57 - is still being tested - in the USA F119 are mass-produced 28 years old!!

    Therefore, end the stupid snowstorm to drive by comparing the technological level of countries according to the calendar - this is absurd and very stupid.

    Su-57th to F-22nd - "as drunk as cancer before Beijing" ...
    1. +1
      7 July 2018 01: 12
      Outsider! It's ugly to lie like that! On the Su-57 installed radar N036 "Squirrel" with AFAR, which surpasses the F-35 radar
      APG-81 MUCH ... And this Su-57 will tear
      F-35, "like a hot-water bottle" ... and 12 Su-57 aircraft with a 2nd stage engine have already been manufactured - the first batch for the Russian Aerospace Forces ... Do not write nonsense!
  31. +1
    3 June 2018 19: 02
    Quote: The Laughtermaster
    Combat missions against whom, can I ask?

    I am more interested in the question of which war Israel is currently participating in.

    - In the war with Iran.
  32. 0
    4 June 2018 10: 43
    If such a low ESR in 0,005 square. m for F35 - a multifunctional aircraft, what kind of EPR will be for an aircraft intended for reconnaissance fellow
    The appearance of this state drone is interesting.
    1. +1
      7 July 2018 01: 42
      Serzh_R! Data on the image intensifier tube (EPR) of 0,005 does not correspond in reality ... This is an advertising stunt of the Americans and no more! Therefore, you can not admire what is not. Moreover, the image intensifier depends not only on the angle of the target, but also on the wavelength of the irradiating electromagnetic field!
  33. +1
    4 June 2018 11: 18
    Quote: Serzh_R
    If such a low ESR in 0,005 square. m for F35 - a multifunctional aircraft, what kind of EPR will be for an aircraft intended for reconnaissance fellow
    The appearance of this state drone is interesting.

    - UAVs performing reconnaissance - HUNDREDS. They are made of composites and for the most part are stealth. From Casper-250, weighing 5 kg:

    to Global Hawk weighing 15 tons:
    1. 0
      4 June 2018 13: 07
      For Russian air defense, the word stealth means more and nothing more.
      But
      US aerospace giant Lockheed Martin intends to develop tactical reconnaissance aircraft under the TR-X project, N + 1 reports

      In particular, Skunk Works, a promising development unit, will create a new aircraft based on the existing U-2 Dragon Lady strategic reconnaissance aircraft.

      In the event that the U.S. Air Force is interested in the project, the development of a new aircraft can be completed before 2025. According to Lockheed Martin, the U.S. Air Force may need 25-30 new aircraft that can conduct reconnaissance at a relatively short distance inland. Presumably, the TR-X will be able to fly throughout the day.

      Engineers plan to create a new aircraft using stealth technologies, it is expected to fly at altitudes up to 21 kilometers.

    2. +2
      6 June 2018 16: 19
      One Global Hawk has already tested the s-300 for stealth. Or do you believe in incredible coincidences. What at the same time after the launch of s-300 missiles on an unknown target near the coast of Syria, the Global Hawk suddenly crashed in Caliphoria? )))
  34. 0
    4 June 2018 11: 36
    Amers can be "admired" vparivayut all under-plane F-35, and try to refuse! Although it is generally unclear whether they will bring him to a full mind ever ....
  35. +1
    4 June 2018 16: 41
    Quote: plotnikov561956
    the launch of the Iskander rocket at a speed of 3000 .. does not give it 5-12 Mach. Why did you say about propaganda ... the country's economy is killed .. look at Russia's GDP ... 13 world economy

    Our economy as a fighter of the 5th generation is LOW-PRICE !!! But this does not mean that we don’t have it, which for a year the whole world has been surprising: they do not see, but regularly flies from us.
    1. The comment was deleted.

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