Military Review

Why and how did the T-64, T-72 and T-80 tanks appear? Part of 2

64
Continuing history becoming tank T-64, it should be noted that this path was thorny with unexpected turns. At the end of 1961, a technical design for object 432 was developed and protected, and in September 1962 the first prototypes of the tank were made. In October 1962, the tank was demonstrated to the leaders of the state in Kubinka. Compared to other tanks, it was seriously different, and despite the mixed reaction of the military, its further development was approved.




Externally, the tank looked very impressive, as an elegantly dressed woman with a pleasant appearance. I was told how, when considering the first versions of the tank, Morozov with his own hand drew a line on the drawing and cut off the protruding ends of the first fuel tanks on the futon shelves. With the words that everything should be beautiful in a tank.

An experimental batch of tanks was made at the Malyshev plant for presentation at state tests. The car was fundamentally new in almost everything and in the process of factory testing revealed a large number of defects and flaws in the engine and its systems, loading mechanism and running gear. For this reason, a number of tactical and technical requirements have not been met.

After working out and refining the design and eliminating the comments, the tank was submitted to state tests in 1963. However, these measures turned out to be insufficient, the TTT was not executed and the tank did not pass the full test cycle and was not accepted for armament.

Despite this, it is decided to launch it in 1964, into serial production according to the documentation of the chief designer. Tanks sent troops to accelerated operation, defects were identified and eliminated. The design was being finalized and in October 1966 of the year it was submitted for repeated state tests. Successfully passed them and in December 1966 of the year was adopted.

Immediately it should be noted that the mass production of the tank began against the will of the military and this naturally did not make them supporters of this machine. In addition, the military opposed the introduction of a fundamentally new machine into the army, since this required serious changes in the technical and organizational support of the tank forces.

In 1964, the T-64 tank went through a deep modernization. It was installed 125 caliber gun mm and modified many of the system of the tank. He successfully passed troop tests and in May 1968 was adopted as a T-64A tank.

It was a new generation tank and very seriously differed from all previous ones.
It turned out to be too new for its time, and any innovation requires effort and time for fine-tuning. The advantages and disadvantages of the T-64 are already detailed and described. But I would like to dwell on some.

His personal impressions of the tank. I was trained in the T-55 tanks and once in practice at the tank repair plant I managed to get into the then secret T-64. I was struck by two points - the gunner's sight and the loading mechanism.

The sight TPD -2 -49 seemed perfect, as far as it differed from a simple sight on the "fifty-fifth" and hit its "not tank" performance and characteristics. At that time I did not know that after years I would have to lead the development of the most sophisticated aiming complexes of a promising tank.

Also struck rammer MOH. Everything worked so quickly that I could not understand how a rigid rod is made of two flexible chains. Much later, I ran into Morozov’s invention, which so easily solved a not simple problem.

The most problematic on the tank were three nodes - the engine, the loading mechanism and chassis. If you look at T-64, T-72 and T-80, then they are precisely in these nodes and differ from each other. Everything else they have is almost the same - the layout, gun, weapons, sights, electronics. It is difficult for a non-specialist to distinguish them.

The T-64 engine caused the most problems and the fine-tuning work lasted a very long time. It was created from scratch, there was no technology, no experience developing such engines. In the process of fine-tuning, there were a lot of problems and for their solution had to involve specialists in metals, ceramics, oils. Conduct research on the dynamics of the piston group and sometimes seek out the necessary solutions by trial and error.

The chief designer of the engine, Charomsky, developed it and obtained acceptable results on prototype engines. In the process of working power 580 HP was not enough and had to develop a new 5TDF engine on the 700 hp With the existing problems, it imposed new ones and many had the impression that it was impossible to bring it.

In addition, Charomsky did not want to tune up the engine, in 1959 he retired and returned to Moscow. Instead, he became the chief designer Golinets, a passionate lover of women, it was no longer the chief designer and a completely different level. Under his leadership, work on the engine seriously slowed down.

When T-1973 was put into service in 72, enraged Moroz, returning from Moscow, blamed Golintsa for failures and very quickly for “moral decay” he was removed from office.

Despite all these problems, the engine was nevertheless brought, and when developing the Boxer tank, a modification of this engine with an 1200l.c capacity was already used. The problems were solved, but the time was gone and the tank could not get on its feet.

There were also completely unexpected problems. As I was told, at the beginning of the military operation of the tank, one unit was deployed in a coniferous forest and after some time the tanks began to fail. It turned out that conifer needles clog the ejection cooling system with all the ensuing consequences. I had to urgently refine the structure and introduce the grids on the roof of the logistics, and return all tanks from the army to the factory and refine it.

Why did the T-72 have a new automatic loader? The choice of the MOH variant was determined by the ammunition. At the beginning of development, it was unitary. As a result, they achieved and made it separate with a partially combustible sleeve and a tray. We have been looking for a variant of its placement in mechanized packing for a long time. At one of the meetings, someone suggested placing it like a bent arm in an elbow. So there was a cabin type MH.

By adopting this option, the emergency evacuation of the driver mechanic was limited. The problem was solved by making a hole in the cabin. But this was possible only with the position of the gun "at the rate." There was also a problem with the trap of the pallet, when it departed at high speed from the gun there were cases of non-trapping of the pallet and the sensor constantly fixing it in the trap was broken, which led to the stopping of the loading process. This problem was also finally resolved.

Under these far-fetched pretexts, the military did not perceive the MOH. On the T-72, it was primitively simple, they threw six shots and put the shells and cartridges on top of each other in the conveyor. The trap did not begin to do. The pallet was just thrown out. And this is despite the fact that the tank should not be depressurized in TTT. For those times, the requirement to conduct combat in the conditions of the use of nuclear weapons was seriously advanced. weapons.

The military closed their eyes to reducing the ammunition from 28 to 22 and depressurizing the tank when firing. The main thing was to prove that the MOH is no good.

Problems with the chassis. Over the years there has been a lot of debate, which is better and which is worse. I can immediately say that the main criterion when choosing the type of chassis on the T-64 was its weight. We should not forget that according to TTT the weight of the tank should not exceed 34 tons and from the very beginning there were problems with the engine, its power was insufficient. Therefore, Morozov, knowing what the patency of a tank means, chose this version of the undercarriage and all the time defended it.

This type of running gear naturally had flaws, they were treated, but the weight requirement was strictly observed. Constantly there was a dilemma between performance and weight, as the adoption of another suspension increased the weight of the tank by two tons. On the T-72 and T-80 went for it, on the T-64 left a lightweight undercarriage. Of course, in such limitations in weight and dimensions it was difficult to achieve satisfaction of all requirements, but the main one believed that this should be tolerated. In his book, Kostenko mentions that Morozov, in communicating with him, agreed that apparently he was wrong, but this is already a property of history.

So there were three types of running: Kharkov, Tagil and Leningrad. Many tests were carried out; according to their results, the Leningrad chassis proved to be the most effective. The KMDB also took it as a basis in its subsequent modifications of the tanks and in the development of the promising "Boxer" tank.

Solving these problems took time, and 11 years passed from the start of the development of the tank to its adoption. During this time there were both supporters and opponents of the development of the tank. The reasons here were technical, organizational and opportunistic. The tank was a new generation and its refinement naturally required considerable effort.

The military, on the one hand, wanted to get a new tank with enhanced characteristics, on the other hand, they were alarmed by the complexity of the tank and the inevitable changes in the structure of the tank forces and the training of tankers. Technical problems were superimposed on this and they delayed the adoption of the tank.

In addition, they were dissatisfied with the launch of the T-64 tank into serial production without the completion of state trials in the 1964 year and believed that they were imposing this tank. The commander of the tank forces, Marshal Poluboyarov and then Marshal Babajanyan, the commanders of the headquarters and the Kubinka training ground, over time, began to lean toward a version of a simpler tank, which they thought was T-72.

The leadership of the defense industry saw what a tremendous amount of work had to be done in organizing the production of this tank. Constant problems with the organization of production, especially the new engine, also did not cause them much enthusiasm. Only the iron will of the “Stalinist people's commissar” Ustinov, who staked on the T-64 as a single tank for the army, forced everyone to accomplish the assigned tasks.

There were also short-term reasons. The launch into serial production of a single tank obligated the UVZ and ZKZ to conduct their developments on this base. Naturally, they did not feel any pleasure from this and, through their lobbyists, among the military, industry and government leaders tried to prevent this and promoted their tank projects.

In August, 1967 of the year issued a decree of the Central Committee of the CPSU and the Council of Ministers to equip the army with new T-64 tanks and develop capacities for their production. The release of this tank was to be carried out at three plants - in Kharkov, Nizhny Tagil and Leningrad. Given the limited capacity for the production of 5TDF engines, its installation in peacetime was envisaged at all factories, and in a special period UVZ was supposed to produce a “backup” version of the T-64 tank based on the existing B-2 engine.

This version of the KMDB tank has developed (object 439). In 1967, tank prototypes were manufactured and tested and tested successfully. Technical documentation for this tank was transferred to UVZ for the organization of mass production.

At the same time, on the LKZ since the beginning of the 60-ies, work was underway to install a gas-turbine engine (tank T-64Т) on the T-64 tank. Samples of such a tank were made and tested. In October 1968, the decision was made to create a T-64 tank with a CCD (object 219). This work was of no interest to anyone, since there was no acceptable turbine.

Regardless of the decisions made at the UVZ and LKZ on the basis of the T-64 tank, work was carried out to create its own versions of the promising tank. At this stage, with the strong support of the military, the UVZ project (172 object) began to lobby, which later became the T-72 tank. As Kostenko wrote in his book, the process of the formation of this tank was long, thorny and wore an almost detective character. It was really a detective story - with fake government documents!

To be continued ...
Author:
Photos used:
wikipedia.org
Articles from this series:
Why and how did the T-64, T-72, T-80 tanks appear? Part of 1
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  1. merkava-2bet
    merkava-2bet 31 May 2018 05: 35
    +12
    One comment to the author and she is also a request, if you can include diagrams, drawings and drawings in the material. Thank you very much for the work.
    1. andrewkor
      andrewkor 31 May 2018 07: 26
      +4
      At least go to the otvaga2004 website in the "tanks" section or to any search engine, fill in the question. What is the problem?
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 31 May 2018 13: 43
        +14
        Quote: andrewkor
        At least go to the otvaga2004 website in the "tanks" section or to any search engine, fill in the question. What is the problem?

        There is no need for such an approach in the article: all these materials can be found on the Internet.
        1. andrewkor
          andrewkor 31 May 2018 15: 51
          +3
          It's just a superficial article, there is more complete information. I just told the person that I read it myself and was pleased.
  2. Ber
    Ber 31 May 2018 05: 49
    +2
    The military closed their eyes to reducing the ammunition from 28 to 22 and depressurizing the tank when firing. The main thing was to prove that the MOH is no good.


    And in battle this can be decisive, on the T-72 in the A3 there are no more shots and manual loading with a rate of 1-2 shots per minute will lead to fatal consequences for the death of the car.
    And on the T-64 and T-80, in the M3 there are 6 more shots left, with an interval of 10-12 seconds.

    All the same, it was necessary to refine the M3, plus the stern A3 of the Burlak project, or the Black Eagle.
    1. Alekseev
      Alekseev 31 May 2018 06: 47
      +35
      Quote: Ber
      oh can be decisive

      Maybe, maybe not ... request
      What is there to guess? 28 shots versus 22 is a plus - this is a plus in battle.
      The presence of high pressure hydraulics in the MH is a minus in battle. A little leaks during combat damage and a fire and explosive oil mist can form.
      The vertical arrangement of charges is a minus in battle. A slightly greater vulnerability of mechanized warheads.
      More price and complexity of production, also minus.
      But loading a cannon without a MZ or an AZ, using the T-72's pure handles, is much simpler, there is simply more space there. Yes To perform such a task in the T-64, you must be flexible and strong, like an octopus.
      Yes, and there’s elementary things to charge, there is a stacking for emergency shots at the bottom of the AZ. On the T-64, a pair of spare in the tower directly "at the ass" of the crew, which increases their "counter-chances" for survival ...
      And how wonderful the fired sump in the MZ smokes with powder gases after a shot, even a supercharger does not always have time to drive the soot out of the fire chamber.
      And there are dead ends of development, such as two-stroke diesel. Although it was brought to a satisfactory level, the degree of forcing of this engine of any modifications (and the more powerful it is, the more) is the reason for very high thermal and mechanical loads.
      In particular, the coolant temperature in the summer reaches 115-130 degrees, the heat capacity of antifreeze is not enough for effective cooling, and the plant requires the use of softened water with an additive in the summer. It is necessary to wash the air filter often in dusty conditions, and it is impossible to do this without a special installation, which is a large bathtub with a pre-heater for installing the washing solution.
      Difficult start ... And so forth, etc.
      Those. There is nothing absolute, there is a set of advantages and disadvantages. As in any business. Other fundamental shortcomings the author is sometimes tactfully silent.. And the false impression is created that against the T-64, subversive work was carried out by a group of pest intriguers in uniform. Although factory specialists have docks each in their own narrow business. In general, to evaluate the advantages and disadvantages of the machine is easier for those who operated it, especially in difficult, combat conditions.
      1. Snakebyte
        Snakebyte 31 May 2018 08: 09
        +9
        Quote: Alekseev
        And there are dead ends of development, such as two-stroke diesel. Although it was brought to a satisfactory level, the degree of forcing of this engine of any modifications (and the more powerful it is, the more) is the reason for very high thermal and mechanical loads.

        With a dead end, it’s an exaggeration - similar diesels are very successfully used in the world. Just for the USSR of the 60s, it was a huge high-tech. Both for manufacturers and for operators, because it required strict adherence to instructions.
        At the level of "lieutenants", technical problems seem, at first glance, to be the empty nit-picking of scientific reinsurers. What, for example, is it worth pouring water “from the tap” once, and not through a special sulfofilter? Everyone knows that neither the Volga, nor the ZILok, nor the good old T-55 will suffer from this. However, as a result, a diesel of a ton weighing almost guaranteed to go into major repairs due to clogged with fine scale channels in the vicinity of the combustion chambers. And then try to prove the guilt of a particular driver, who, moreover, managed to serve "urgent", and works on the other side of the country.
        Or take another problem. The neck of the oil tank is located next to the air intake grid, and moving it to another place is not so simple. A trifle? But laid watering cans are very rare in parts, and when pouring from a bucket, a rare fighter will not splash oil on the air intake. It seems to be nonsense, everyone knows that you won’t spoil the porridge with butter! Moreover, nothing bad happens immediately. And that somewhere deep in the filter a thick layer of dirt has stuck to the smudges of oil, and the untreated air with dust and sand goes directly to the cylinders, no one cares.
        And any commander from a lieutenant to a marshal will try to do everything possible and impossible to bring the blame to the factory.
        1. Alekseev
          Alekseev 31 May 2018 12: 42
          +18
          Quote: Snakebyte
          similar diesels are very successfully used in the world.

          They are used on marine vessels and diesel locomotives, but on cars, tractors and tanks - this is rare ...
          Quote: Snakebyte
          At the level of "lieutenants", technical problems seem, at first glance, to be empty nit-picking

          Here, "sensible majors" sometimes give a blunder. wink
          I remember how one ZKV gave the command to grind the T-64 track rollers with a solidol. fool , which caused a mass failure of these.
          But after all, in a war with a strong adversary, a shortage of everything, a three-component additive, M16IHP3 oil, softened water, good batteries, stands for flushing air vents, etc., and, most importantly, "sensible" w / cs, can quickly occur. In addition, they can be, to put it mildly, very tired. Tanks, like infantry, are in the mud itself, and not in an air base on a concrete strip.
          And if it is possible to use an unpretentious motor, this should be done, despite the fact that a lot of time and money have been spent to bring the whimsical to mind and sophisticated production technologies have been developed.
          In this matter, probably, the practice of the combat use of tanks, especially in the Middle East, is precisely the criterion of truth - in terms of reliability, unpretentiousness, and in terms of combat effectiveness in general, the T-72 tank and its modern modification of the T-90 passed the exam.
          1. Snakebyte
            Snakebyte 1 June 2018 11: 48
            +4
            Quote: Alekseev
            But after all, in a war with a strong adversary, a shortage of everything, a three-component additive, M16IHP3 oil, softened water, good batteries, stands for flushing air vents, etc., and, most importantly, "sensible" w / cs, can quickly occur. In addition, they can be, to put it mildly, very tired. Tanks, like infantry, are in the mud itself, and not in an air base on a concrete strip.
            And if it is possible to use an unpretentious motor, this should be done, despite the fact that a lot of time and money have been spent to bring the whimsical to mind and sophisticated production technologies have been developed.

            That is all true.
            Here the trick is that the Urals, having received the task of modifying the T-64 with an "unpretentious" diesel engine, made a completely different tank, albeit similar in terms of performance characteristics. And the Leningraders also tried, instead of "putting on the T-64 GTE" it turned out "to create a tank with a GTE similar to the T-64 on the TTX."
            Ideally, it was necessary to combine efforts and combine the best solutions in a single machine. But, it was unrealistic, not capitalism, after all (socialism, however, that system was already only formally) ...
            1. hohol95
              hohol95 1 June 2018 15: 13
              +2
              And the capabilities of the three factories were the same? Machinery fleet? Qualification of employees? Would there be enough spare parts from subcontractors right away for THREE plants?
              1. Snakebyte
                Snakebyte 4 June 2018 08: 02
                +2
                There was an excellent occasion to modernize and expand production.
                And if you focus on the "simpler", you can slide to the Petrine fuseys.
                1. hohol95
                  hohol95 4 June 2018 09: 35
                  0
                  Snakebyte - There was a great reason to modernize and expand production.

                  I will answer with the phrase Vysotsky -
                  Dialog TV.
                  ...
                  Besides this shirt, Zin,
                  You got on - one shame
                  Arshin will go to your sewing,
                  Where is the money, Zin.

                  If you have financial calculations on the sum of such modernization of plants - announce ...
                  In which “KOPEYKU” would this result for the country?
                  Who would make all these new machines and by what year would the modernization end?
                  And, where did you get specialists of the same profile and qualifications?
                  Propagate by CLONING ???
                  And the state of affairs of the subordinates with the same equipment and personnel?
                  A lot of questions - only NO answers !!!
                  1. Snakebyte
                    Snakebyte 5 June 2018 08: 00
                    +3
                    And what penny resulted in the contents of three types of tanks of different designs? Do you have financial calculations?
                    Or calculations, how much did the production of tens of thousands of obsolete T-55 cost?
                    During the war, then they could transfer plants to the production of other tanks, but in peacetime they could not?
                    The reasons should not be sought in the scientific and technical reserve, but in the small-town interests of the plants.

                    P.S. Here, by the way, is an example from the third article in the series:
                    https://topwar.ru/142487-pochemu-i-kak-poyavilis-
                    tanki-t-64-t-72-it-80-chast-3.html
                    Works on the 6TD engine in Kharkov were practically banned, and a decree of the Central Committee and the Council of Ministers launched the construction of a plant in Kharkov for the production of a new CCD for T-80U. The construction of the plant without elaborated documentation for the CCD was an adventure. The plant was practically built, they began to order the most complicated equipment, it was worth the inconceivable money. As a result, the GTE was never developed, everything was thrown to the wind, and no one answered for the senseless use of funds.
                    Still have questions about money?
                    1. hohol95
                      hohol95 5 June 2018 08: 20
                      -1
                      Everyone will always have questions about money! And to praise "their swamp" and "throw" dirt "into someone else's, people will never stop!
      2. EvilLion
        EvilLion 31 May 2018 08: 36
        +7
        Well, with the battles, the T-64 did not have a good time before the war in the Donbass, but he managed it there too. And these are not 60-70's tanks, these are already late vehicles.
        1. thrush
          thrush 1 June 2018 09: 45
          +5
          Quote: EvilLion
          Well, with battles, the T-64 did not ask before the war in the Donbass


          little combat experience with the T64. this is mainly a conflict in Moldova, and the KChF peacekeeping operation in Poti in 1993 where they showed themselves along with the T72 145 divisions .. and yielded to them in many ways ..

          Quote: Alekseev
          alexeyev (alexey)


          Alex ... one question .. Omsk?
      3. Ber
        Ber 31 May 2018 10: 59
        +5
        Those. There is nothing absolute, there is a set of advantages and disadvantages. As in any business.


        It's like that.

        BUT ... 1. The length of the core placed in M3 is much longer than in A3, without making changes, on the T-90, A3 had to be redone to increase the length.
        2. M3 is able to work with 152 mm caliber.
        Experienced tank "Object 292" of the design bureau of the Kirov Plant (Spetsmash OJSC) and VNIITransmash scientists. On the basis of the chassis of the T-80U tank, a new turret with a 152 mm gun and a new MZ was installed. In 1990, a prototype tank was ready, with the exception of the MOH. In 1991, firing tests began at the Rzhev training range. As a result of the tests, positive conclusions were obtained.


        In terms of ballistic characteristics, the smooth-bore 152-mm gun significantly exceeded the 125-mm gun, and the new gun was made in dimensions slightly exceeding the standard one.

        A new fighting compartment of the tank was created, which without changes to the chassis design could be installed on the T-80 chassis.

        The final stage of the facility’s development took place at the beginning of the 90s, during this period funding for the development of Spetsmash was radically reduced, and the Central Research Institute Burevestnik, which was engaged in work on the rifled version of the 152 mm gun, was falling apart. It is worth noting that the Spetsmash designers saw the prospect precisely in the rifled version of the 152 mm gun. This is written by the developers of materials published in the press: "Defense Industry Complex" I. Efremov, B. Larionov. No. 2/2008, A. Dziavgo in "VPK" No. 13/2005 and in the newspaper of the Voenmech University No. 6/2008.

        By the end of the 80s, the design bureau of the Kirov Plant also developed a number of other machines. Among them, besides the remote control tank described in the sources, there is also an improved main tank with a new fighting compartment and a number of advanced developments, such as an armament control complex with an information management system, a new MTO with a high-power engine and an improved undercarriage (object 291).

        In the second half of the 80s, the development of a new generation tank based on the results of scientific and technological progress was intensified in the USSR. By this period, as indicated in the book “75 Years of Research and Testing of Armored Weapons and Equipment (38 Research Institute of the RF Ministry of Defense),” there has been a loss of leading positions by domestic tank building (p. 415).


        3. M3 in a threaded version, made it possible to unify 152 mm shells with self-propelled guns Akatsiya and self-propelled guns Msta-S.

        4. M3 on the T-80 under 152 mm caliber made it possible for any tank to shoot nuclear shells unified with self-propelled guns up to 2 kilotons.
        (And this to EBN advisers, essentially CIA agents who were in the Kremlin like at home, was like a sickle in the balls, and the project was cut down in the bud)

        In my opinion, this was the decisive advantage of the M3 A. Morozov.

        Now it is the T-14, and the ruined 640th Black Eagle.
        The time of both M3 and A3 T-64 \ 72 \ 80 has passed.
        1. Vikxnumx
          Vikxnumx 31 May 2018 12: 10
          0
          Do you have confidence that there is no 125 mm special warhead in the arsenal?
          1. Ber
            Ber 1 June 2018 05: 54
            +2
            Do you have confidence that there is no 125 mm special warhead in the arsenal?


            I’m sure that no, but you probably know all the secrets of RosAtom right?

            For 120 mm NATO, and for 125 mm Russia-China, no such ammunition.

            Americans apparently started a project to create an atomic charge of 140 mm caliber, for Abrams tanks after the modification of SEP 2-3, because they slipped a fake about the Abrams nuclear tank, and heaps of billions of green Baku, to create tactical ultra-small nuclear munitions in the United States.

            Half of the Abrams are capable of replacing the caliber of 120 mm to 140 mm.

            So, even for 140 mm, this is a problem that the US is only going to solve since 2017, and you are talking about 120-125 mm.
        2. eburg1234
          eburg1234 8 June 2018 18: 21
          0
          1. MOH under elongated BOPs Lead-1/2 is also subject to alteration. Although they are simpler than in AZ.
          2. At 292, a NEW MOH was proposed. No special unification with 125 MH.
          3. MO is not ready to purchase another type of tank (assault or whatever).
          4. There is artillery for firing nuclear shells, tanks do not need this.
      4. Vikxnumx
        Vikxnumx 31 May 2018 12: 14
        +1
        But it sounds like: "two-stroke, ten-piston, with two crankshafts and turbocharging" !!!
      5. ser56
        ser56 31 May 2018 15: 26
        +1
        Thanks for the informative comment! drinks
    2. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 31 May 2018 13: 52
      +3
      Quote: Ber
      ... And in battle it can be decisive, on the T-72 in A3 there are no more shots .......

      In the “Merkava”, in the first-order ammunition depot (what is fed by the loader) about a dozen shots, all other ammunition are in individual containers, and it is hardly possible to get them out of there instantly.

      That is, they have enough of 10, but we do not have enough 22?
      1. merkava-2bet
        merkava-2bet 31 May 2018 23: 57
        +6
        In Merkava-1,2, what is shown in the picture, there are four shells in the corridor each, and two shells with the capsule outward and two inwards, it is very inconvenient to take out as there are also clips, those pieces of iron are like handles. But in Merkava-3,4 individual containers for each projectile stand, it is very convenient to remove. For Merkava-1,2 tanks, first-round shells are on the floor of the turret’s rotating floor in a fire-resistant container in the amount of six pieces, Merkava-3 has a rotating mechanical drum for five shells on the turret’s floor, and Merkava-4 has an electric turret on the left of the turret ten-shot programmable drum.
      2. Ber
        Ber 1 June 2018 05: 39
        +6
        In the “Merkava”, in the first-order ammunition depot (what is fed by the loader) about a dozen shots, all other ammunition are in individual containers, and it is hardly possible to get them out of there instantly.
        That is, they have enough of 10, but we do not have enough 22?


        Found with whom to compare, (shove not shove)

        Do not be offendedbut the theater for which T-64 \ 72 \ 80 was created, merkava is not combat ready from the word at all.

        1. Underwater forcing of all the rivers of Western Europe to the La Mancha, is Mrkava capable of this?
        Especially for coastal wet soil entering and exiting the river? (specific ground pressure)

        2. The carrying capacity of bridges, the main limitation in Russia and Europe is 50 tons.

        3. After the breakthrough, both through the bridge and after crossing the river, the number of rapidly arising targets, in the bunker on the tracks of the merkava created for the defense of a small territory and in the tanks of the breakthrough of the old USSR?

        But most importantly, when breaking through the defense, for example, a merkava, a turn of 20-30 mm BTR or BMP cannons on board will make the mkrkava not operational, since the entire spring suspension is mounted outside, which all countries abandoned after the Second World War.


        4. The merkava in the frontal projection has two points in the photo marked in red, which is not a problem for a sniper shooting 15-20 mm armor-piercing.


        In the photo, the stock was 40 mm Are you sure that there are no similar telescopic ammunition for 15-20 mm sniper rifles capable of penetrating from a distance of 200-400 mm 40-60 mm of armor?

        It is not correct to compare the USSR breakthrough tanks and the defense tank in the form of a mobile bunker.
        1. Blackgrifon
          Blackgrifon 3 July 2018 20: 58
          +2
          Quote: Ber
          The merkava in the frontal projection has two points in the photo marked in red, which is not a problem for a sniper shooting 15-20 mm armor-piercing.

          Yeah. Sniper. With a 20 mm sniper ...
          1. Snipers are not as often as you think they shoot at tanks. On a solitary in the city - yes (and even only on equipment on the tower), on a machine as part of a platoon that fires from a distance of 1-2 km - it is extremely rare and only out of despair.
          2. Snipers serial and mass caliber 15 mm no.
          3. A sniper of 20 mm caliber and above refers to small-caliber artillery and is not used against tanks - the calculation also wants to live.
          4. At least one example of how a "sniper shooting 15-20 mm armor-piercing is not a problem" was there a merkava? Hint - there are no such cases.
          5.
          Quote: Ber
          Are you sure that there are no similar telescopic ammunition for 15-20 mm sniper rifles capable of penetrating from a distance of 200-400 mm 40-60 mm of armor

          No, actually. Western calibers for small-caliber artillery: 20, 25, 30, 35, 40 mm. For 20 currents and 25 telescopes. not being developed. And also a telescope. b / p is not suitable for powering a "normal" gun.
          6.
          Quote: Ber
          USSR breakthrough tanks, and a defense tank in the form of a mobile bunker

          The USSR did not have “breakthrough tanks”. There were BASIC battle tanks. Those. tanks that possessed firepower and heavy defense with medium mobility, capable of operating in defense and offensive. Also at the IDF. Merkava - this is MBT, and not a heavy tank, and it was used well including and on the offensive.
      3. thrush
        thrush 1 June 2018 16: 05
        +6
        Quote: Bad_gr
        That is, they have enough of 10, but we do not have enough 22?


        sometimes it’s not enough .. especially when a cursory news is necessary .. in 1993, in Sevastopol, the reflection of the sea landing was practiced on exercises ... the T64 conveyor went into the sea in less than 10 minutes ... there was no need to search for targets .. on the waves like in the dash .. visibility excellent range comfortable 1700-1600 m .. aiming, shot, adjustment if miss, shot, carry.
  3. andrewkor
    andrewkor 31 May 2018 06: 48
    +11
    For the grannies on the little bench at the entrance, the article is just right. There is so much information on the history and problems of all three tanks, so many copies are broken on the forums by experts and just amateurs! One more was drawn, he added intrigues about the womanizer that the motor did not bring to mind because of its adventures. A very superficial cycle, a pity for the time to read it, but it is necessary to develop your own opinion!
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 31 May 2018 08: 13
      +10
      Yes, quite superficially. The author, despite the shattering in the first part, seems to lead to the fact that the Kharkovites are handsome, and the Urals are cheaters who "cut the corners" of the technical task. And the cheaters. At least I got the impression.
      . It should be noted right away that the serial production of the tank began against the will of the military and this naturally did not make them supporters of this vehicle

      That is, Ustinov in this matter bent Malinovsky. Ustinov’s motives would not hurt to cover in more detail, but the author jumps off the topic.
      Advantages and disadvantages of the T-64 are already disassembled and described in detail.

      This part is not very learned, unfortunately.
    2. Looking for
      Looking for 31 May 2018 17: 39
      +4
      Listen, you larva larva, you know that Apukhtin is not some kind of author, but a man who spent four years in the dungeons of the Kiev junta (2014-2018), a man who was not afraid to defend the USSR and Russia in Ukraine.
      1. Blackgrifon
        Blackgrifon 3 July 2018 21: 01
        0
        Quote: Seeker
        not some kind of author, but a person who sat

        The author’s position in life is correct, but the author’s political views and his personal merits do not cancel the fact that the article is extremely superficial and full of many inaccuracies, omissions, and even myths.
  4. EvilLion
    EvilLion 31 May 2018 08: 33
    +13
    Instead, he became chief designer Golinets, a passionate lover of women


    Korolev Sergey Palych on this part was almost a blunder almost until his death. And this did not bother him in his work. And so, it seems like an otmaz that they say one is retired, the second only needs women.

    There was also a problem with the pallet trap, when it flew out of the gun at high speed there were cases of non-trapping of the pallet and the sensor fixing it in the trap constantly broke, which led to a stop of the loading process. This problem was also finally resolved.
    Under these far-fetched pretexts, the military did not perceive the Ministry of Health.


    So he was buggy, like my dad after the second bottle, or "far-fetched"? Author, decide.

    And this despite the fact that according to TTT the tank should not be depressurized in battle. At that time, the demand for combat in the context of the use of nuclear weapons was seriously advanced.
    The military closed their eyes to reducing the ammunition from 28 to 22 and depressurizing the tank when firing. The main thing was to prove that the MOH is no good.


    I don’t know who the author worked there, but the shot itself represents a malfunction in the process of ejection of the projectile and powder gases from the tank, that is, the tank is inevitably depressurized. Moreover, the 125 mm gun on the barrel has a thickening, this is nothing more than an ejector device, which after a shot creates a strong air leak from the tank, dragging away powder gases. That is, the most powerful air stream just emits from the tank immediately after the shot, and that there the door opens for a moment and the sleeve, or its remnants, is thrown, plays absolutely no role, since nothing gets into the tank. The very protection against WMD involves the constant maintenance of increased pressure inside the tank. That is, even if you open the hatch, the air will go out of the tank, and not inside it.

    The inlet air flow into the tank goes through the filters.

    Many tests were carried out, according to their results, the Leningrad chassis proved to be the most effective.


    Yes? Is it from the T-80? But there is still an opinion that the caterpillar is good on the T-80, but the chassis on the T-72 is the best. Well, the T-64 drove into the arable land, and there it will remain.

    In general, moaning in the spirit that “nothing could be done, but for some reason these bastards from the military and competitors did not want our product and offered their own, which was simpler and worked”
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 31 May 2018 10: 41
      +8
      Quote: EvilLion
      I don’t know who the author worked there, but the shot itself represents a malfunction in the process of ejection of the projectile and powder gases from the tank, that is, the tank is inevitably depressurized.

      Ahem ... actually, in the process of the shot itself, the tank is tight - the barrel is locked. Otherwise, all the powder gases would go to the tower.
      But in the process of ejecting the sleeve and loading, the tightness is violated - the bore is open.
      Quote: EvilLion
      Moreover, the 125 mm gun on the barrel has a thickening, it is nothing more than an ejector device, which, after firing, creates a strong air leak from the tank, dragging along the powder gases. That is, immediately after a shot, a powerful air stream just emanates from the tank and that there the hatch opens for a moment and the sleeve, or its remnants, is thrown out, plays absolutely no role, because nothing gets into the tank.

      And here there is just one subtle point. See for yourself: if we do not have a hatch, then air enters the BO only through the FVU and is then drawn out by the ejector through the barrel channel. There are no other ways of getting outside air into the tank.
      And if we have a hatch, then a temporary pressure drop in the BO during the operation of the ejector can lead to the suction of the outside atmosphere through this hatch, bypassing the HLF.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion 31 May 2018 11: 14
        0
        That is, the long opening of the bore during charging is not a problem, but is a problem for the ejection of the sleeve?

        Although something tells me that statements like "a spoon of this d ... on the floor is able to destroy all life within a radius <substitute a large distance" "are greatly exaggerated, the cartridge case itself is, as it were, not a big source of danger.

        This is without question regarding the fact that sitting inside a tank in an infected area without a gas mask is the same as a pilot in the stratosphere without an oxygen mask. God forbid you have to leave the car.
        1. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 31 May 2018 14: 12
          +3
          Quote: EvilLion
          the liner tray itself is a great source of danger .....

          There were cases when, from behind the pallet, a charge in the combat unit ignited, after which the tank completely burned out from the inside.
          (Examples were given here, on this site, several years earlier)
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 31 May 2018 16: 39
          +5
          Quote: EvilLion
          That is, the long opening of the bore during charging is not a problem, but is a problem for the ejection of the sleeve?

          Yes. Because one hole in the tower with high pressure is not a problem, the inflow still goes only through the HLF.
          But when a second hole is formed in the tower, and then, when the atmosphere of the tower is sucked out by the ejector through the barrel, this may be a problem. Because the air will go along the path of least resistance. And this is not the way through HLF filters. smile
          1. EvilLion
            EvilLion 31 May 2018 16: 58
            0
            In fact, filters are only part of the supply system, which actively pumps air, i.e., creates a pressure difference.
  5. Ural-4320
    Ural-4320 31 May 2018 11: 14
    +2
    EMNIP radioactive sealing of the tank is carried out by increasing the pressure inside. It turns out not in the fighting compartment, but is blown out of it. Thus, it is possible to ensure tightness when firing (powder gases exit), and when loading (pressurization of the barrel), and when throwing the pan (pressure in the fighting compartment is higher than outside).
    But all the subtleties of this issue are known only to developers and operators.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 31 May 2018 16: 46
      +3
      Quote: Ural-4320
      EMNIP radioactive sealing of the tank is carried out by increasing the pressure inside. It turns out not in the fighting compartment, but is blown out of it. Thus, it is possible to ensure tightness when firing (powder gases exit), and when loading (pressurization of the barrel), and when throwing the pan (pressure in the fighting compartment is higher than outside).

      On sealing, one subtle point is discussed - what will happen after the shot, when the barrel is open, and the ejector draws powder gases from the barrel and the fighting compartment (pressure in the BO drops). If at this moment the hatch is open, then theoretically “air suction” from outside can go through it.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 31 May 2018 18: 10
        +4
        Quote: Alexey RA
        Quote: Ural-4320
        EMNIP radioactive sealing of the tank is carried out by increasing the pressure inside. It turns out not in the fighting compartment, but is blown out of it. Thus, it is possible to ensure tightness when firing (powder gases exit), and when loading (pressurization of the barrel), and when throwing the pan (pressure in the fighting compartment is higher than outside).

        On sealing, one subtle point is discussed - what will happen after the shot, when the barrel is open, and the ejector draws powder gases from the barrel and the fighting compartment (pressure in the BO drops). If at this moment the hatch is open, then theoretically “air suction” from outside can go through it.

        It seems to me that the HLF compensates for this.
      2. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 31 May 2018 18: 57
        +1
        Quote: Alexey RA
        what will happen after the shot, when the bore is open, and the ejector pulls the powder gases from the barrel and the fighting compartment (pressure in the BO drops). If at this moment the hatch is open, .......

        At this moment, the hatch is closed. The ejection of the padon through the hatch (with the preliminary opening of the hatch) does not occur immediately, but somewhere in a couple of seconds after the shot.
        Correct me if I'm wrong.
        1. Doliva63
          Doliva63 31 May 2018 20: 22
          +4
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Quote: Alexey RA
          what will happen after the shot, when the bore is open, and the ejector pulls the powder gases from the barrel and the fighting compartment (pressure in the BO drops). If at this moment the hatch is open, .......

          At this moment, the hatch is closed. The ejection of the padon through the hatch (with the preliminary opening of the hatch) does not occur immediately, but somewhere in a couple of seconds after the shot.
          Correct me if I'm wrong.

          And the pallet is hanging in the air for a couple of seconds? belay
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 31 May 2018 22: 13
            +4
            Quote: Doliva63
            And the pallet at this time hangs in the air for a couple of seconds? belay

            I don’t know how this process is implemented in the T-72, but in the T-62 it looks like this:
            after the shot, the gun rolls back, then, the gun goes forward, the bolt opens, the sleeve is ejected. The sleeve is fixed in the tray, the tray rises, the hatch in the tower opens and the sleeve is ejected from the tower by torsions. In general, the sleeve is not thrown out like a sleeve from a pistol.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 1 June 2018 15: 50
              +3
              Quote: Bad_gr
              Quote: Doliva63
              And the pallet at this time hangs in the air for a couple of seconds? belay

              I don’t know how this process is implemented in the T-72, but in the T-62 it looks like this:
              after the shot, the gun rolls back, then, the gun goes forward, the bolt opens, the sleeve is ejected. The sleeve is fixed in the tray, the tray rises, the hatch in the tower opens and the sleeve is ejected from the tower by torsions. In general, the sleeve is not thrown out like a sleeve from a pistol.

              Thank you colleague for the reminder. drinks 62 I had a graduation tank laughing
              1. Bad_gr
                Bad_gr 1 June 2018 21: 59
                0
                Quote: Doliva63
                62 was my graduation tank

                And I skated on it for two years, behind the levers. At increased expense.
  6. Vikxnumx
    Vikxnumx 31 May 2018 12: 05
    +2
    This type of chassis naturally had flaws, they were treated, but the weight requirement was strictly observed. Constantly a dilemma arose between performance and weight, since the adoption of a different chassis increased the weight of the tank by two tons. On the T-72 and T-80 went for it, on the T-64 left a lightweight chassis. Of course, in such restrictions on weight and dimensions, it was difficult to achieve the satisfaction of all requirements, but the main one believed that this should be put up with.

    Schaub to serve you in the Kantemirovskaya division with the dolby VODYATLOM in the crew!
    There are no other comments on the hodovka!
    And the weapons part is in FULL ORDER!
    Thank you!
  7. toha124
    toha124 31 May 2018 14: 01
    0
    I could never understand the logic of the Soviet command. Just three MBT in service, it does not fit on the head. I can even understand two tanks - more difficult for the "first line" and easier - for mobilization. But three ... Is it really just pure lobbying?
    1. Alf
      Alf 31 May 2018 18: 52
      +1
      Quote: toha124
      I could never understand the logic of the Soviet command. Just three MBT in service, it does not fit on the head. I can even understand two tanks - more difficult for the "first line" and easier - for mobilization. But three ... Is it really just pure lobbying?

      Well, how much can you repeat, 5TDF could not be produced in such quantities. They were not able to create a large-capacity diesel engine in the USSR, so the turn of the turbine came.
      1. eburg1234
        eburg1234 8 June 2018 18: 36
        0
        IMHO the turbine was more a fetish than a necessity. For the same T-80 was created and tested 2B-16 (a distant ancestor of the T-14 engine), but Leningrad focused on gas turbine engines.
        So the B-46 is more powerful than the “modern latest” at that time 5TDF: 780 hp against 700).
        Later in the 80s, the B-84 reached 840 hp. And the 5TDF had to be completely redone, adding another cylinder to get 6 hp on the 1000TD (at the same time, the cost of the engine doubled).
        In the 90-00-ies, the power of 6TD and V-92 was practically equal.
        The question is: was it worth it?
  8. ser56
    ser56 31 May 2018 15: 24
    +1
    It is a pity that the author does not refer to Kartsev’s memoirs ...
    1. andrewkor
      andrewkor 31 May 2018 15: 56
      +4
      So the author has a personal dislike for Kartsev, he can’t even eat!
      1. ser56
        ser56 1 June 2018 11: 02
        0
        the more so - there is the opportunity to reasonably prove that it is wrong ... and the default gives no arguments ... request
  9. magirus401
    magirus401 31 May 2018 16: 35
    +5
    Apukhtin Yuri Mikhailovich was born in 1948 in the Kursk region. He has two higher educations. He worked for twenty-four years as a leading designer at the Kharkov Design Bureau of Engineering named after A.A. Morozova, Candidate of Technical Sciences, author of many publications and books, on his account several inventions in the field of tank control systems.
    The author, a person who was directly involved in the development and formation of the tank, describes the HISTORY of the appearance of the tank, and give you some drawings and schemes, at least read the title of the article, otherwise it seems that there are so cool experts who give advice on changing the design, and the topic is known better than the developers, so settle down in KB and work for the good of the Motherland, at least have a little respect for the honored person.
    1. Doliva63
      Doliva63 31 May 2018 18: 18
      +5
      Quote: magirus401
      Apukhtin Yuri Mikhailovich was born in 1948 in the Kursk region. He has two higher educations. He worked for twenty-four years as a leading designer at the Kharkov Design Bureau of Engineering named after A.A. Morozova, Candidate of Technical Sciences, author of many publications and books, on his account several inventions in the field of tank control systems.
      The author, a person who was directly involved in the development and formation of the tank, describes the HISTORY of the appearance of the tank, and give you some drawings and schemes, at least read the title of the article, otherwise it seems that there are so cool experts who give advice on changing the design, and the topic is known better than the developers, so settle down in KB and work for the good of the Motherland, at least have a little respect for the honored person.

      Yes, there are no questions to the author. In any case, he must praise his own. And there is something for it - the world's first serial tank of a new generation. Without it, there would be 72 and 80, because they are his descendants. And we must understand that 64 had all the "diseases" of the firstborn, so to speak. It is clear that UVZ and Leningrad drew conclusions from the operation and looked for solutions to problems - both the engine and the chassis. But nobody abandoned the general concept! So, it was true, thanks to the designers!
      1. Bad_gr
        Bad_gr 31 May 2018 19: 06
        +1
        Quote: Doliva63
        Without it, there would be 72 and 80, because they are his descendants.

        I think they would. Slightly different, with a different case, but with a similar reservation, with the same gun and automatic loader. I do not know the developments of the Leningrad Design Bureau of that period, but as already written, the T-72 father (object 167) was ready for production even before the release of the T-62 tank.
        1. Alf
          Alf 31 May 2018 19: 59
          +1
          Quote: Bad_gr
          dad T-72 (object 167) was ready for production even before the release of the T-62 tank.

          Maybe T-64?
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 31 May 2018 22: 54
            +1
            Quote: Alf
            Quote: Bad_gr
            dad T-72 (object 167) was ready for production even before the release of the T-62 tank.

            Maybe T-64?

            It is the T-62. At the same time, the T-64 was being developed, only at that time, it had too many jambs.
            You can read about this in the history of the appearance of the 167th.
        2. Doliva63
          Doliva63 31 May 2018 20: 13
          +5
          Quote: Bad_gr
          Quote: Doliva63
          Without it, there would be 72 and 80, because they are his descendants.

          I think they would. Slightly different, with a different case, but with a similar reservation, with the same gun and automatic loader. I do not know the developments of the Leningrad Design Bureau of that period, but as already written, the T-72 father (object 167) was ready for production even before the release of the T-62 tank.

          But in the end they were made with 64, right? drinks
  10. Cat
    Cat 31 May 2018 18: 55
    +2
    Despite this, a decision is made to launch it in mass production in 1964 according to the documentation of the chief designer.

    Eyewitnesses said that the case was arranged like this. The T-64 stood on a platform, unlike other types of weapons. Khrushchev went to the tank and said only the bottom word - "take" .........!
    So 64 was the strongest lbbi! State tests, as the author said correctly, the car passed in 1967.
    Sincerely, Kitty!
  11. hohol95
    hohol95 31 May 2018 20: 09
    +2
    Due to the delay in work on the "object 430" (T-64), it was necessary to create a T-62!
    It turned out that the Soviet Army did not have an adequate response to tanks with the English L7 gun and its American counterparts!
    But at the same time, the military was only waiting for a new tank from Kharkiv! Only from them ...
    And he cost the country many rubles spent on the “dubious revolution”!
  12. erofich
    erofich 31 May 2018 22: 46
    0
    Quote: VIK1711
    But it sounds like: "two-stroke, ten-piston, with two crankshafts and turbocharging" !!!

    And the engine on your car is also four-stroke, four-piston, with one crankshaft and turbocharging?
  13. hohol95
    hohol95 1 June 2018 09: 02
    0
    And about the 155mm gun the first T-64s were forgotten ???
    In the tower of the tank was installed 115-mm smoothbore gun D-68, stabilized in two planes. Ammunition consisted of 40 rounds of separate-shell loading, of which 30 were in the conveyor of the loading mechanism in L-shaped cartridges. The shells were located horizontally in the cartridges "heads" to the axis of rotation. Charges with a partially burning sleeve were installed vertically, with metal pallets up.

    And describing -
    The military closed their eyes to reducing the ammunition from 28 to 22 and depressurizing the tank when firing. The main thing was to prove that the MOH is no good.

    FORGOTTEN that when switching to a 125mm gun -
    The capacity of the loading mechanism was reduced to 28 shots, and the ammunition of the gun as a whole - to 37 shots.

    37 shells !!!
    1. Bad_gr
      Bad_gr 1 June 2018 14: 08
      +2
      Quote: hohol95
      FORGOTTEN that when switching to a 125mm gun -
      The capacity of the loading mechanism was reduced to 28 shots, and the ammunition of the gun as a whole - to 37 shots.
      37 shells !!!

      A tank was designed by Chelyabinsk residents (“Object 785”)
      ".... The main armament was a powerful 130mm rifled gun with 50 rounds of ammunition. This is the largest stock of shots among Soviet second-generation tanks. Moreover, 30 rounds were in the automatic loader. ...."
      Development was not given.
      1. hohol95
        hohol95 1 June 2018 15: 15
        +1
        How so? The most powerful Chelyabinsk LOBBY did not sell this project? Horror... good