If “Stugna” is so good, why does Kiev need “Javelins”?

34
The materials of the XI International Scientific and Technical Conference "Prospects for the development of weapons and military equipment of the Ground Forces" were published in Ukraine. In particular, it provides detailed material on the Stugna anti-tank missile system, developed by the Luch Kiev Design Bureau.

We present a material on Ukrainian-made ATGM (according to M. Kazakov):



The “Stugna” ATGM portable complex is used at firing ranges from 100 m to 4 km. Flight time of the guided missile at maximum range - no more than 16 with. Warhead - tandem cumulative.

The P-2C missile is guided by a tele-orientation method using a laser beam. Accompanying the goal is carried out by the gunner in manual or automatic mode with the image of the target on the screen of the remote control monitor.

The Stugna ATGM guidance system functionally consists of a television and laser channel to control the rocket. With the help of a television channel, the gunner does the search, detection and recognition of a target, and also has the ability to track the target in manual and automatic modes with a television image of the target on the remote control monitor (RC).


Further, in the material about "Stugna":

The laser control channel forms a laser beam, ensures its spatial coding and movement in the vertical plane. Laser and television channels are synchronized with each other.

The information field of the rocket control is formed by the guidance device. The video signal generated by the pointing device enters the automatic tracking block of the launcher. The output signal "Stugny" comes from the launcher on the remote control monitor. The console generates commands for managing the complex.

If “Stugna” is so good, why does Kiev need “Javelins”?


The rocket control system takes the rocket to the center of the information beam and provides further rocket maintenance in this position until the target is hit.

Shooting at night with the help of the “Stugna” ATGM system is carried out under the condition that the target is visible in the sight while illuminating the area with regular military lighting equipment. The emitter, located in the back of the rocket, generates radiation in the red wavelength range and allows visual control of the rocket flight.

The rocket is launched at the PUSK command with the ATGM remote control, as a result of which the pyro lock is triggered in the rocket transport and launch container and a command is issued to start the starting engine.

After the missile’s departure from the guide, the pointing device forms a laser beam. The radiation receiver of the rocket perceives optical radiation without reacting to light interference. The rocket's photodetector converts optical radiation into an electrical signal.


ATGM "Stugna-P" was adopted by the APU in 2011 year. The armor penetration capability of this anti-tank missile is up to 800 mm (depending on the type of armor). Serial production of these complexes, as stated in Kiev, has been going on since 2015. At the same time, according to the command of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, no more than three dozen of such complexes are actually in service.


In Ukraine, they say that the Stugna ATGM system has passed the procedure of complying with NATO standards and has performed well during combat training events. If "Stugna" is considered in Ukraine weapons high efficiency, then why in this case Ukraine American Javelin anti-tank systems? Recall that President Poroshenko announced the receipt of American anti-tank missile systems "real victory" and "guarantee of national security." Against this background, manufacturers realized that the current authorities do not intend to support their own arms manufacturer.
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34 comments
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  1. +3
    29 May 2018 17: 02
    And someone saw this Stugna? Yes freebie so much sweet in this word .............
    1. +4
      29 May 2018 17: 15
      ... If "Stugna" is so good, why Kiev "Javelins" ...

      "Stugna" is hypothetically theoretically good, it was even shown at exhibitions. But it is either there or not. Yes, and they need to do, to establish production.
      "Javelin" is ready, there are enough of them in warehouses - it is supplied as alms.
      Ukrov selection is obvious.
    2. +1
      29 May 2018 17: 52
      Quote: Pirogov
      And someone saw this Stugna? Yes freebie so much sweet in this word .............

      =========
      Well, given that this complex for 3 years (!!!) was produced in quantity .... 30 pieces (???) - then FEW WHO (saw it) !!!!
      1. 0
        30 May 2018 08: 00
        Your face, when everyone talks about the superiority of Stugny, and there is only a model ...

    3. +1
      April 28 2022 22: 01
      Well, have you seen it now?
  2. +4
    29 May 2018 17: 06
    Because Javelin is the third generation and he is deadlier, CEP. Well, because it’s free. fellow
    1. +1
      29 May 2018 17: 16
      Well, because it’s free.


      And this is not the most important thing. They are easier to sell to the side.
      1. +3
        29 May 2018 17: 30
        Another "free cheese" for Ukraine in the Anglo-American mousetrap ...
    2. +5
      29 May 2018 17: 43
      Quote: professor
      Because Javelin is the third generation and he is deadlier, CEP. Well, because it’s free. fellow

      Oleg hi You believe in free cheese in a mousetrap, they put cheese in it, and it’s very unpleasant to click on the nose, and so it is. laughing hi
      1. +3
        29 May 2018 19: 28
        Quote: vovanpain
        Oleg Do you believe in a free cheese in a mousetrap, they put the cheese in it, and it clicks on the nose very unpleasantly, and so here.

        In this case, the cheese is free. Reckoning is the use of ichthamnet.

        Quote: Lex.
        What is the problem ?
        Also 3 generation

        Not. "Shot-forgot" is not there.
        1. 0
          23 March 2022 09: 31
          Fire-and-forget is usually implemented in the Fire-and-miss variant. Something the Americans boldly and decisively returned from the javelins to the TOU with wires. Bo is so reliable
    3. +1
      29 May 2018 17: 46
      Hornet
      Shershen 01.jpg
      Type of ATGM
      Country Belarus
      History of production
      Designer Belarus CJSC "SRPC"
      Belarus OJSC "Peleng" - guidance device
      Ukraine Design Bureau "Luch" - guided missile
      Designed 2010
      Producer CJSC "SRPC"
      Years of production 2010 - present
      Hornet is a third-generation Belarusian-Ukrainian anti-tank missile system (ATGM).
      What is the problem ?
      Also 3 generation
  3. +3
    29 May 2018 17: 16
    Javelin is important as a symbol - “America is with us!” (And a free one), and Stugna may be good (although the guidance laser is neutralized by an aerosol curtain, and the television signal through the “rocket-operator” channel is suppressed by electronic warfare), but its no money. That's the whole story ..
    1. +1
      29 May 2018 17: 28
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      and Stugna may be good (although the guidance laser is neutralized with an aerosol curtain, and the television signal through the "rocket-operator" channel is suppressed by your electronic warfare), but there is no money for it.

      How are you going to jam the optical signal from the REB?
      Of course, the laser can be dispersed with an aerosol .., but how will the tank know that a rocket will attack them if the laser does not even shine on the armor?
      1. +1
        29 May 2018 17: 32
        Well, I won’t argue, it’s not my topic (I just tried to turn on the logic), but Stugna has not existed since yesterday, and it’s still not in the army due to lack of money. PS And what is the laser shining at, if not at the target?
        . The output signal “Stugny” comes from the launcher to the remote control monitor. The console generates control commands for the complex.
        And why cannot this signal be suppressed?
        1. +1
          29 May 2018 17: 34
          Quote: KVU-NSVD
          PS And what is the laser shining at, if not at the target?

          Well, in simple terms .. it shines in the ass of a rocket .., the shift of the laser from the center causes the rocket to deviate, so that the laser shines again in the center.
      2. +1
        29 May 2018 17: 42
        Quote: dvina71
        Quote: KVU-NSVD
        and Stugna may be good (although the guidance laser is neutralized with an aerosol curtain, and the television signal through the "rocket-operator" channel is suppressed by your electronic warfare), but there is no money for it.

        How are you going to jam the optical signal from the REB?
        Of course, the laser can be dispersed with an aerosol .., but how will the tank know that a rocket will attack them if the laser does not even shine on the armor?

        The laser there is semiconductor, therefore it is a "pseudo-laser", it has a very large, irreparable divergence. The question is the ability to catch a very weak "halo" of the laser.
        If you know the principles of modulation, then the laser can be detected. Another question is that there are no similar means on Russian tanks. And it will not appear - the task is not for our industry.
        1. +3
          29 May 2018 18: 02
          Quote: Real Russian
          The laser there is semiconductor, so this is a "pseudo-laser",

          Good logic .. And what about the degree of pseudo-chemical laser relative to solid-state?
          Quote: Real Russian
          it has a very large, irreparable divergence

          This is the property of ANY light radiation passing through the holes ... lenses ... etc .. What kind of halo are you talking about?
          Quote: Real Russian
          If you know the principles of modulation, then the laser can be detected

          If not to be blunt, then the laser is detected by energy ... without big problems and for a long time. On Soviet tanks, the Shtora system was equipped with such sensors
          1. +1
            29 May 2018 18: 33
            Quote: dvina71
            Quote: Real Russian
            The laser there is semiconductor, so this is a "pseudo-laser",

            Good logic .. And what about the degree of pseudo-chemical laser relative to solid-state?
            Quote: Real Russian
            it has a very large, irreparable divergence

            This is the property of ANY light radiation passing through the holes ... lenses ... etc .. What kind of halo are you talking about?
            Quote: Real Russian
            If you know the principles of modulation, then the laser can be detected

            If not to be blunt, then the laser is detected by energy ... without big problems and for a long time. On Soviet tanks, the Shtora system was equipped with such sensors

            What exactly are you asking? We are talking about a laser on Stugne - that's why we are discussing semiconductor lasers. Which are incoherent and require focus. As a result, there is an extensive halo around the main beam.
            Regarding Soviet tanks, it was revealed at a Greek tender that Soviet sensors could only detect each other, but not NATO’s rangefinder radiation.
            We are discussing Stugna, which, unlike conventional ATGMs, uses a "laser path" where the laser does not irradiate the target.
            1. +1
              29 May 2018 18: 54
              Quote: Real Russian
              As a result, there is an extensive halo around the main beam.

              Not a halo, but a beam broadening! You can look at the coefficient in the reference book .. I'm lazy. And how does the semiconductor laser make this effect great for a sensor compared to a solid-state laser?
              Quote: Real Russian
              Regarding Soviet tanks, it was revealed at a Greek tender that Soviet sensors could only detect each other, but not NATO’s rangefinder radiation.


              Regarding the Greek tender .. there were no Soviet tanks! Learn the materiel.
              Quote: Real Russian
              discussing Stugna, she, in contrast to conventional ATGMs, uses the "laser path", where the laser does not irradiate the target.

              I agree with this.
              1. +1
                29 May 2018 19: 06
                Broadening.)))))))))))) DIVERSIBILITY !!!!))))
                In the case of a semiconductor laser, the following should be considered:
                - low coherence
                - large physical size of the radiating part
                - reflection on the lenses
                To understand what a halo of a semiconductor laser is, you take a good NVD, use a laser to shine on the wall, and observe the picture. With a laser "to the point", a halo at a distance of a meter tens of centimeters.

                About the tender "The Shtora optical-electronic suppression complex does not provide response to the laser rangefinder radiation from foreign tanks of the Leopard-1A5, Lsopard-2A5, M-60AZ tanks. The Shtora system was triggered only when irradiated from the T- tank 84 (Ukraine), a similar response occurred with the system installed on the T-84 tank. "
                1. 0
                  29 May 2018 19: 14
                  Practice shows that the Curtain on the T-90 is operating normally. So for a second .. are there any missiles in the armament of Western tanks? No ... no. then why would a Shtore respond to a rangefinder laser? She reacts to the Tou-2 laser as it should.
                  PS .. you are all referring to the Greek tender .. and where did you read the original report?
                  1. 0
                    29 May 2018 19: 39
                    The Western armies are armed with anti-tank systems. :))) So the Curtain is against them, and not against "tank missiles."
                    NATO tanks recorded the radiation of Soviet rangefinders. What for? Then, that they already took you into the sight.)))
                    Yes, I did. In this case, the paper original. And even a secret application to it. Moreover, all the tankers who tested, then reported to me.
    2. 0
      30 May 2018 14: 57
      Javelin is not a symbol, but a cover for a deal with bold kickbacks
      Do you think it is a coincidence that almost all weapons from the United States come in at twice the price of the average market?
  4. 0
    29 May 2018 17: 25
    So, after all, the javelin works on the principle of “shot-forgot”, and the stung must be corrected by a laser, otherwise it will fly by! !
    1. +1
      29 May 2018 17: 37
      Quote: ANCIENT
      "shot-forgot"

      In war, the main thing was shot-and-hit, and with that, in a real battle, there are big difficulties. Starting from the capture time that the operator must hold in front of the enemy and this is at a distance of 1-1.5 km .. I’d better shoot from Stugna .. or even not ... from Fogot ..
  5. +1
    29 May 2018 18: 03
    “If Stugna is considered to be a high-performance weapon in Ukraine, then why in Ukraine would the American Javelin anti-tank systems be for Ukraine? Recall that President Poroshenko announced the receipt of American anti-tank missile systems "a real victory" and "guarantee of national security"
    Herr Poroshenko has already figured out how much Javelina can be sold to separatists.
  6. 0
    29 May 2018 18: 18
    Because how to organize the mass production of such complexes costs decent money and you need to invest them earlier, and the profit from such investments is not yet obvious. Now Ukraine is looking for the one who pays for everything. Production for exhibitions and demonstrations of pilot production is enough.
  7. +1
    29 May 2018 18: 31
    Yes, because “Zhoplins” can be freely driven into any part of the world for “green preziks” .. And STUGNA in the hands of the barmaley is already a real fawn for the leper Petenka ..
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. +1
    29 May 2018 21: 27
    “Recall that President Poroshenko declared the receipt of American anti-tank missile systems“ a real victory ”and“ a guarantee of national security. "" ... Well, the guarantee of national security of Ukraine is not American missiles, as such, but American instructors who come to them with an expensive application.
  10. 0
    30 May 2018 03: 56
    Well, there are three reasons:
    1. The mentality of Ukrainians who are free to freebies.
    2. To squeal once again, de "Omeriga is with us!" and so that Pedro Poroshenko for the 497th time will leave goodbye to the Russian (Soviet) empire, and so that he whines, something like "All the world!"
    3. This Stugna is good against tanks with cardboard armor, which was developed by the most prominent tank designer of Ukraine Rostislav Abramov wassat
  11. 0
    30 May 2018 09: 20
    If “Stugna” is considered to be a high-performance weapon in Ukraine, then what is the purpose of the American Javelin ATGM for Ukraine?

    The supply of the Javelins is nothing more than a political gesture. And Stugna, a real product with a good price / quality ratio.
  12. +1
    30 May 2018 12: 29
    “Think of Newton’s binomial” (c)
    No one, except the designers, is interested in how good or bad Stugun is. Ukraine, as a vassal, is obliged to give work to the American and Western European industry. Therefore, she destroyed her industry and begins to buy high-tech products from her overlord. And these are Diesel locomotives, helicopters ... and of course weapons.
  13. 0
    April 13 2022 20: 23
    Well, commentators on all sorts of telegrams can see that the child prodigy is not so fabulous ...

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