War of the worlds or war with ignorance?

160
“How to distinguish a stranger who has taken our appearance and living among us from an ordinary person? But this is how: if you see a bald man in front of you, with a fly crawling on his head, and he doesn’t react to it at all, know that there’s just an alien in front of you, and the skin on his head is a solid silicone! ”

Why do points of view change?



And I took this nonsense from ... my own lecture about the wonders and mysteries of ancient civilizations, which I read as a lecturer at the Komsomol OK in summer field camps for students and collective farmers and, I must say, not without success. Yes, yes, at that time they were also interested in it, although not in such volumes as now. But, having become older, I began to take the hypotheses more seriously, both my own and, first of all, to strangers, and most importantly - I began to try first to find out all the available information on this or that issue, and only then express my opinion. And to find out not only what corresponds to my point of view, but also what is opposite to it. Arguments both for and against!


Temple of the Inscriptions in the city of Palenque. Pyramid.

Today we are experiencing a departure from totalitarian, that is, universal and verified points of view and the rejection of like-mindedness, and this is good. But as always in any process there is good, but there are "side effects". One of them was the spread of all kinds of delusional theories, popular among people with low levels of knowledge and intelligence (and, alas, there are many), which, however, with persistence worthy of a better application, promote them everywhere and all. And all the evils, as is well known, stem from incomplete knowledge and more ... from poverty. I saw that Deniken showed you or Muldashev there and ... believed. And go and see all the money itself is not enough. Work with old maps in the archives of the Maritime Museum in Barcelona? Languages, like Chapaev, are not trained. So it turns out - incomplete knowledge, making a person with an unstable psyche vulnerable. Well, examples of how the information is supplied by the adherents of "secret knowledge" is darkness. But today we will touch only one thing: the famous plate from the Temple of Inscriptions in Palenque, about which sometimes things are said to be most amazing.


Temple of the Inscriptions. Actually, the temple.

Scene

And it was like this that in 1948, the Mexican archeologist Alberto Ruz found in the jungle of the Mexican state of Chiapas the ruins of the ancient Mayan city of Palenque (Spanish - Fortress), and in it there is a high pyramid with a temple at the top, called the Temple of Inscriptions. And it was so named because its walls were once decorated with huge plates with numerous bas-reliefs and 620-th hieroglyphic inscriptions, some of which have survived to this day. What they say is still not fully understood, because the combination of picture-words and phonetic symbols has not yet been fully explained. However, it is obvious that they belong to epochs that are thousands of years distant from us and contain narrations about people and gods participating in events. stories Mayan. By the way, the city was abandoned already in the years of the Spanish conquest. Cortes and other Spanish conquistadors did not write anything about him and clearly did not know about this city. Europeans did not know anything about the existence of this city hidden in the jungle until the 1746 year.


The main square of the city of Palenque. The Temple of the Inscriptions on the left.

The temple itself is built on a nine-stage 20-meter pyramid, while its rear side rests on the steep slope of the mountain. When Ruz discovered it, the pyramid with the Temple of the Inscriptions looked like a hill overgrown with vegetation, so it took a huge mass of earth to move before it appeared before the archaeologists completely.


The temple is inside. Now I understand why he was called so?

Amazing burial

The floor of the Temple of Inscriptions covers large and well-polished stone slabs. Archaeologists immediately noticed one of them, since there were two rows of holes on it, covered with stone traffic jams. Moreover, the massive walls of the temple lay on the floor, and went somewhere deep. This led them to the idea that under this stone flooring there could be some other structure. Alberto Ruz immediately began to dig and found an underground passage going deep into the pyramid, and, having reached the very "bottom" in 1952, he realized that there was a crypt with a burial.

War of the worlds or war with ignorance?

Underpass inside the pyramid.

It was about 9 meters long and 4 meters wide, and its high, vaulted ceiling went up almost 7 meters. The design of this underground room was so perfect that its preservation turned out to be almost perfect even after a thousand years. The stones of the walls and the vault were hewn with such art that not one of them fell from its place. The walls of the crypt were decorated with plaster bas-reliefs: nine richly dressed figures, apparently, symbolized the Lords of the Night (in Mayan theology, deities from the underworlds). They were dressed in lush costumes, surprisingly similar to each other: hats from the long feathers of the quetzal bird, fancy masks, cloaks of feathers and jade plates, skirts or loincloths with a belt, sandals made of leather straps. The neck, chest, hands and legs of these figures were literally humiliated with various precious ornaments. On the high position of these characters spoke scepters with a handle in the form of a serpent's head, masks of the god of rain and round shields depicting the god of the sun.


“They were all aliens!” The bas-reliefs of the Temple of the Inscriptions.

The floor of the crypt is almost entirely covered with a rectangular slab of size 3,8x2,2 m and thickness 0,25 m, entirely covered with fine carvings. The edges of the stone slab were bordered by a ribbon of hieroglyphs. Later Rus deciphered two calendar dates. They corresponded to 603 and 633. n e. As for the plate itself, it is rightly recognized as one of the most outstanding works of art of the Maya. For the highest technique of execution it is compared with the works of European masters of the Renaissance.


Here it is a stove! But so look at her wrong. (National Museum of Anthropology, Mexico)

Under the slab, archaeologists have found the burial of a man of forty or fifty, in abundance furnished with ornaments of precious jade. Who was that? The ruler of the city? The great priest, and so great that they decided to bury him first and only then build a pyramid and a temple over him? Who knows…


Right to look at it like this!

What do historians say?

One of the first description of the tombstone found in the pyramid was given by the Soviet historian V. Gulyaev. And he saw on it this: “In the lower part a terrible mask is drawn, already with its appearance reminding of death: jaws and nose devoid of soft tissues, huge empty eye sockets and bare fangs. The top of this mask is crowned with four images, two of which symbolize death, and the other two, on the contrary, suggest the idea of ​​birth and life (a grain of corn and something resembling its ear or some flower). At the top of this monster sits, leaning back, a young handsome man in a rich headdress, decorated with jewels. He is intensely looking in the direction of a strange crosshair subject, which is most likely a stylized image of the maize germ, which is revered in Mayan culture. Finally, at the top of this cornfly sits the sacred bird quetzal, the long feathers of which were considered the privilege of the rulers and Mayan priests. And below are the symbols of water and two disks, which show the masks of the sun god. ” However, he did not notice that the character depicted on the stove is very similar to the reconstruction of a jade mask covering the face of the deceased. But then others noticed it.


Plate inside the tomb. Original.

“Bad examples” are always contagious!

And this fact and pushed two scientists - Italian Pinotti and Japanese Matsumura (independently of each other), on the same thought, and crazy thought, that if a real person is depicted on a plate, then real objects surround him too. and not some kind of mystical symbols. After this, the “development” of this idea automatically led them to the conclusion that the drawing on the plate is a detailed ... drawing of a certain spacecraft! “Bad examples” are said to be very infectious, and soon Russian scientist V. Zaitsev joined their company, and American aircraft designer J. Sanderson even laid a reproduction of the pattern from the plate into a computer and gave him a “command” to convert the flat image into a three-dimensional one. So it turned out the cabin of the spacecraft with the control panel and the engine, spewing flame. At the same time, Sanderson also supplemented his computer printouts with several strokes, depicting, in addition, also the external casing of the carrier rocket, which is absent in the image on the slab!


The slab, and under it the sarcophagus. Reconstruction. (Palenque Museum)

As always, Daniken didn’t do without ...

But this idea was best known in the interpretation of the famous Swiss writer Erich von Daniken. In his book, The Chariots of the Gods, he stated that the mysterious figure in the center of the lid is an astronaut who sits in the cabin of a starship, and the book has become a real bestseller. Moreover, without further thinking of the evil one, he arranged the drawing not vertically, but horizontally, and he immediately “spoke” exactly as he wanted!


Volume drawing of the image on the plate.

“In the middle of the drawing,” Daniken writes, “is a seated person leaning forward. On his head is a helmet, from which the halts or hoses are pulled back. A device resembling an oxygen apparatus is located in front of the face. His hands are manipulating control devices. He presses the button or key with his right hand and squeezes the lever with his left (this is confirmed by the fact that the thumb is not visible in the figure). The heel of the left foot rests on the pedals. It is noteworthy that the “Indian” is dressed very modernly. He has a sweater collar around his neck. Sleeves end in knitted elastic cuffs. On a waist a safety belt with a buckle. Pants fit legs like leggings. And after all, modern astronauts dress like this when they are not in spacesuits ”.

Facts versus hypothesis

However, even earlier, namely in the 1968 year, the Soviet science fiction writer A. Kazantsev set forth the same hypothesis in detail in the pages of the magazine "Technology - Youth". But if we turn to real facts, they will not be in favor of supporters of all these cosmic hypotheses. We should start with the fact that both in the Daniken book and in the article of A. Kazantsev, the images on the stone slab - the lid of the sarcophagus from the Temple of Inscriptions - are given in a highly distorted form. The vast spaces of its carved surface were deliberately flooded with black paint, many of the characteristic details are blurred, and the individual parts of the picture (in fact, never connected to each other!) Are connected by a solid line. But the most important thing is the perspective in which they portrayed the lid of the sarcophagus: in order to give their “astronaut” a more natural posture (forward bend, etc.), both authors deliberately placed the image in the wrong, transverse position, whereas standing at its bottom, that is, the end part.


Judging by the sculptures and bas-reliefs, the Mayans were very fond of depicting symbols of death ... She can be said to be just “my dear mother”.

As a result of this distortion, many details of the sculptural composition - the quetzal bird, the mask of the earth deity, etc. - appear before the viewer in a completely unnatural form: upside down or sideways. If you look at the relief of the sarcophagus correctly, then we will see that the young man depicted there is sitting, significantly leaning back, on his back and looking intently up at the cruciform object. The young man is not dressed in "checkered pants", as Daniken writes, - their Maya did not know, but only in a loincloth. The body, arms and legs of the young man are naked, although they are decorated with bracelets and beads made from jade plates. Finally, all the main elements of the image from the cover of the sarcophagus from the Temple of the Inscriptions - the cross ("tree of life") with a bird above, a mask of the monster of the earth, etc. are presented in different variations and in a number of other temples of Palenque.


The device is a tomb inside the pyramid of the Temple of the Inscriptions.

But the most important argument in favor of the fact that the stranger is not depicted on the slab is connected with our simple logic, which we dislike. Well, pray tell, to whom, if he were at least three times a stranger from space, would it be necessary to show the Indian savages a drawing of their spaceship, and most importantly, while still explaining this to them so that they would understand it? Well, is not it nonsense to assume that? “Do not tag the beads before the pigs, and do not trample it with your feet!” - it is written in the Bible, and it is precisely this, I think, that all is said once and for all!
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  1. +16
    2 June 2018 04: 41
    It was inspired by .. A twelve percent of the people who saw the green chelovechochka stop drinking ... The rest will start ... And only the girl Masha will begin to cross the street ...
    1. Cat
      +14
      2 June 2018 06: 10
      If you follow the many national textbooks on forensic psychiatry, then a squirrel does not come to a person with a fever, but a green devil!
      Dear Vyacheslav Olegovich, I am superior to the respected Anton - the article should be called "Empire ... Shpakovsky strikes the first blow to the Bashkir ufologists" !!!?
      Analyzing (using old Soviet methods from psychiatry) the text of the article we can conclude - Vyacheslav Olegovich at one time could not stand the competition for lecturing on collective farms clubs and campuses on potatoes. For a quarter of a century, there was a grudge and ......... "imagine a ufologist who, having read an article this morning, broke his nano-vine and bangs his head against a stone (intercom) from a read revelation!" So I think the readers of VO should be congratulated on the initiative of starting a new and interesting series of articles!
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, so do not hesitate to post all your "phobias" ..... if, that we sincerely admire them !!!
      Thanks sincerely for the article, Regards Kotische!
      1. +8
        2 June 2018 06: 50
        That's right, dear Vladislav. Only now, I had no special competitors. The lecture "Riddles of the Ancient Earth" went with a bang. But ... then I began to read, I began to consider and it turned out that the whole graze on the Earth became aliens ... and all of a different kind, all the "eyewitnesses" describe them differently. Well, artifacts ... why the aliens at once? And so I stabbed this chicken that carried the golden testicles. It turned out that money is not always money! Sometimes you have to think about the soul.
        1. Cat
          +6
          2 June 2018 07: 54
          Vyacheslav Olegovich admit that about “competition” - this is my pure speculation. But the neighbor’s chicken - for which they slaughtered? Do not be offended for God's sake - just kidding.
          People from science are all "a little" visionaries, I think many of them, having made their great discoveries, were a little sorry that they had not proved or discovered their most secret from childhood.
          Perhaps Schilman and his Troy - this is an exception confirming the rule!
          Good day, Kitty!
          1. +6
            2 June 2018 08: 14
            Sorry, Vlad, the man who unearthed Troy, although he tried to squeeze the treasures he found, but still he is Schliemann. laughing
            1. Cat
              +5
              2 June 2018 08: 49
              Recently, I have sinned with first and last names. So thanks Anton for the amendment.
              Sincerely, Kitty!
              Seriously - this is my old misfortune, being a gamoyun, we tend to soften words and swallow vowels. So communism, socialism - that’s all for Schliemann!
              1. +2
                2 June 2018 09: 27
                Yes, full of you, I'm kidding! But “socialism” must write through “s” and with “yat” at the end.
            2. +1
              4 June 2018 10: 58
              In general, he is still Zuckerman. And according to the passport Shelmovich?
          2. +5
            2 June 2018 08: 53
            Like "what chicken" ?!
            “-You have written“ perfect egg. ”Who was taken from?
            - Chickens
            - And they did not resist?
            “Those who resisted are in the next department.”
        2. +3
          2 June 2018 09: 36
          Here in this place, Vyacheslav Olegovich, you have extended the sought-after "mowing" euro. For, more sophisticated personalities wrote the novel "The Faets" or filmed a dozen seasons of The X-Files.
          1. +5
            2 June 2018 12: 47
            Oh, "Faet" is at one time my favorite novel. In his own and "before the time."
    2. +2
      2 June 2018 08: 40
      "As soon as the girl Mary crosses the street, she will see the green men !!!" (from the comments in the Opinions section) laughing
      1. +4
        2 June 2018 12: 00
        "As soon as the girl Mary crosses the street, she will see the green men !!!" (from the comments in the Opinions section)

        the comment, by the way, is very subtle! good Everyone sees and says what he thinks. drinks
        I carefully read the interpretation of Daniken .. It's like if you show the "Rorschach spots" to a person, and hear the answer that he sees! Conditionally healthy sees one, the owner of a mental disorder - is completely different. fellow
        Should I then ask why people often do not hear and do not understand each other? hi
    3. +1
      3 June 2018 18: 24
      if you see a bald man in front of you, a fly crawling over his head, but he doesn’t react to it in any way, you should know that this is an alien in front of you, and the skin on his head is all silicone! ”

      Not a fact, most likely the bald went through laughing
  2. +3
    2 June 2018 06: 12
    Moreover, the massive walls of the temple lay on the floor
    How's that? recourse
    1. +1
      2 June 2018 06: 55
      The foundation is usually buried in the ground. But in this case they were erected on floor slabs and ... it was possible to lift these slabs and see what was there? Picked up and looked ...
      1. +4
        2 June 2018 07: 57
        Quote: kalibr
        But in this case they were erected on floor slabs and ... it was possible to lift these plates and see what was there? Picked up and looked ...

        Then, to raise the plates, it was necessary to remove the walls from the plates ....
        Although, in principle, this is not important.
        It is important that you find, save and tell ....
  3. +3
    2 June 2018 06: 44
    After lectures on space, apparently the lecturers were very well received by the local moonshine. From this, it seemed to him that the topics of spaceships plowing the expanses of space were a success. There were a lot of such idlers, but they could not enlighten and prove the advantage of the Soviet system. What does this mean, about demagogy and not enlightenment.
    1. +6
      2 June 2018 09: 15
      Between “enlightenment” and enlightenment “is a huge distance. Guys, learn and love the Russian language! Don't be like top managers of the advertising department of Baltika Concern!
  4. +4
    2 June 2018 06: 51
    Quote: sibiryak 63
    There were a lot of such idlers, but they could not enlighten and prove the advantage of the Soviet system.

    But it is impossible to prove really unprovable!
  5. +6
    2 June 2018 06: 52
    Ata them, Vyacheslav Olegovich !!!
  6. +3
    2 June 2018 07: 39
    I had a chance to visit those places. I noticed that the "green men" often disassembled or used the material of the pyramids built before them by other "green men". Which proves the following: despite low productivity and primitive technologies, the aliens fought an intergalactic war in Mesoamerica
    1. +4
      2 June 2018 12: 03
      aliens waged an intergalactic war in Mesoamerica

      I will continue drinks : ".... the great war for the material for the pyramids! am merciless and furious, to the last stick of blood! " angry laughing the locals looked at it .. and quietly went nuts drinks
  7. +18
    2 June 2018 07: 54
    There are many puzzles
    And there will probably be a lot of discoveries - after all, even the Egyptian, Latin American pyramids and Sumerian ziggurats were so different from each other!
    Thanks, and success to the author in excavating an interesting topic
  8. +6
    2 June 2018 07: 55
    The pre-Columbian Mayan writing system and general approaches to its decryption were correctly identified by Yu.V. Knorozov in the early 1960s. (the main conclusions are contained in his monograph "Writing of the Maya Indians", coherent reading
    Native American texts became possible only from the mid-1990s, thanks to
    the work of a large group of researchers from different countries: David Stuart (David Stuart, USA), Nikolai Grube (Nikolai Grube, Germany), Simon Martin (Simon Martin), Stanley
    Gunter (Stanley Gunter), Linda Shele (Marc Zender), Stephen Houston (Stephen Houston), Barbara McLeod (Barbara McLeod), all - USA, Alfonso Lacadena (Alfonso Lacadena, Spain), Dmitry Belyaev and Albert Davletshin (Russia). However, to date, reading at least a quarter of the characters used in
    Mayan hieroglyphic writing, not established; considerable difficulties
    saved when translating words and phrases whose phonetic appearance
    set. Therefore, in the proposed translations there are always numerous outflows and question marks indicating incomprehensible and dubious places.
    But it was possible to read that the pyramid is a funerary monument above the tomb of K'inich Khanab Pakal the First, which, in fact, was found in the sarcophagus.
    The Palenque inscriptions are among the most studied monuments of the Mayan script.
    If someone is interested in a question, there is a book "Chronicle of Bakul rulers." It presents the texts of Palenque - the capital of the Baakul kingdom of the ancient Mayans.
    And why the city was abandoned - no one will answer for sure. Mexican scientists have counted 89 theories explaining the collapse of this civilization. So, various folklorists and fans of other altistories have a lot to frolic.
    1. +6
      2 June 2018 08: 06
      And the jewelry of the deceased are made of jadeite. Jade and jadeite are varieties of a mineral called jade. They are very similar, but differ in composition and structure. The most valuable grade of jadeite is "imperial". Its prices are comparable with the prices of emeralds.
      1. +2
        2 June 2018 08: 25
        Good morning, what can you say about the "Eilat stone"?
        1. +3
          2 June 2018 10: 00
          Good flux for soldering gold.
          1. +2
            2 June 2018 11: 31
            Quote: Curious
            Good flux for soldering gold.

            I doubt it. This is not pure chrysocolla, but a mixture with lapis lazuli and malachite
            1. +2
              2 June 2018 14: 01
              Yes, I agree, this is a mixture of malachite, azurite, turquoise, pseudomalachite, chrysocolla and others. Just the first thing that came to mind when mentioning the "Eilat stone". Next - automatically - soldering gold.
              1. +1
                2 June 2018 15: 46
                And how long has the "Eilat stone" been used in this incarnation?
                1. +1
                  2 June 2018 18: 37
                  "eilat stone" - no. And chrysocolla - from ancient times, hence the name (chrysos = gold, calla = glue)
                  1. +1
                    2 June 2018 21: 22
                    Thank! Another puzzle fell into place. And how often is chrysocolla found in areas of copper ore deposits?
                    1. +2
                      3 June 2018 01: 21
                      Constantly, as it is a product of the oxidation of copper ores. Chrysocolla itself is one of the minerals that make up porphyry copper ores.
                      1. 0
                        3 June 2018 06: 58
                        That is, can one suggest that the development of a copper deposit in the Arava (Timna) desert contributed to the development of jewelry in ancient Egypt?
    2. +3
      2 June 2018 08: 28
      Oh yeah! The aforementioned Kazantsev frolic in two novels (well, at least from what I read)
    3. +3
      2 June 2018 12: 50
      Thank you very much, Victor Nikolaevich!
      1. +3
        2 June 2018 13: 49
        Always ready!
  9. +2
    2 June 2018 08: 06
    Somehow, being in dismissal, I have nothing to do from it, I got to the session of the full-length documentary film "Back to the Future", it seems German. It was very disappointed.
    1. +4
      2 June 2018 08: 24
      The Back to the Future movie trilogy is, by the way, very good Hollywood production.
  10. +1
    2 June 2018 08: 09
    Quote: V. Shpakovsky
    Well, tell me, to whom, even if he had been a stranger from outer space at least three times, would it be necessary to show the drawing of his spaceship to the savage Indians, and most importantly, at the same time explain it to them so that they understand this?

    Tell me, did it ever occur to you that these are traces of a vulgar civilization? That the Flood wasn’t so universal? That the past civilization was developed no less than ours and the survivors of the cataclysm had an idea about the cosmos transmitted to their descendants orally, which subsequently reflected it on the stone?
    1. +3
      2 June 2018 08: 21
      Have you read Jerome K. Jerome? He said well about the "ingenious sculptors of porcelain dogs."
      1. 0
        2 June 2018 09: 05
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        He said well about the "ingenious sculptors of porcelain dogs."

        Everything ingenious is simple and this simplicity attracts us. Why? Probably we like to feel our superiority over our, as it seems to us, primitive ancestors, but it is not yet known if we were in that time, what would we be like.
        1. Cat
          +5
          2 June 2018 10: 20
          Tell me, did it ever occur to you that these are traces of a vulgar civilization? That the Flood wasn’t so universal?

          The local, or rather, the regional character of the flood described in the Old Testament was proved more than once or twice. For example, the well-known T.Heirdal wrote and spoke about this. The presence of some powerful civilizations explains a lot. The trouble of this theory is one where there is evidence of their existence.
          1. +3
            2 June 2018 11: 01
            Quote: Kotischa
            The trouble of this theory is one, where evidence of their existence exists.

            A lot of evidence. It would be a desire. But, everything that does not fit into the Biblical representation of the World is perverted, hushed up, hidden or destroyed. Some fragments of the remains of the past are captured on old engravings, paintings.
          2. +2
            2 June 2018 12: 00
            Quote: Kotischa
            The local, or rather, the regional character of the flood described in the Old Testament was proved more than once or twice.

            Just do not forget what is written in Plato about Atlantis: the Egyptian priest tells Solon that the floods were dofig, but the Greeks remember only the last. So, there was dofiga local, and the Old Testament dating is very close to the Black Sea (the so-called Dardanov) flood - but the World Flood, it seems, did exist, but long before these local ones! Jewish sages claim that Noah is a “clear” name, and the real, secret name is Menachem. Now compare - among the Indians Manu was saved from the flood, among the Germans Mann. But this is all the Old World - but what about the Maniboso among the Iroquois, Montezuma (not that, of course) among the Aztecs and Manco among the Incas? The Sumerian “Ziusudra” and the Babylonian “Utnapishtim” are clearly nicknames (Ziusudra = who has found a long life, I do not remember the meaning of the name “Utnapishtim”).
            1. +1
              2 June 2018 15: 16
              Once I saw a map where the ancient Sumerians lived. I drew attention to one detail, where there is a chain of cities, there is no river. It can be assumed that the channel has shifted greatly.
              Perhaps there was a flood. If a large meteorite falls in Antarctica, then it will not cause a tsunami, and even no one will notice a fall. But it can melt a huge amount of ice.
          3. 0
            4 June 2018 11: 09
            Well, excuse me somehow they did not think that their existence must be proved. I, too, don’t really think about leaving behind a tombstone there. And it is not a fact that if higher civilizations follow spiritual development and not technological, what should they leave behind? And is it necessary? Imagine that you live in harmony with nature and you have everything that’s not suitable, And then someone comes in and starts to play with you iPhone. I, even in our technologically advanced age, don’t quite understand why I got a phone for 80 thousand wooden
          4. 0
            4 June 2018 11: 10
            Well, excuse me somehow they did not think that their existence must be proved. I, too, don’t really think about leaving behind a tombstone there. And it is not a fact that if higher civilizations follow spiritual development and not technological, what should they leave behind? And is it necessary? Imagine that you live in harmony with nature and you have everything that’s not suitable, And then someone comes in and starts to play with you iPhone. I, even in our technologically advanced age, don’t quite understand why I got a phone for 80 thousand wooden
          5. 0
            4 June 2018 11: 10
            Well, excuse me somehow they did not think that their existence must be proved. I, too, don’t really think about leaving behind a tombstone there. And it is not a fact that if higher civilizations follow spiritual development and not technological, what should they leave behind? And is it necessary? Imagine that you live in harmony with nature and you have everything that’s not suitable, And then someone comes in and starts to play with you iPhone. I, even in our technologically advanced age, don’t quite understand why I got a phone for 80 thousand wooden
          6. 0
            17 June 2018 12: 24
            Quote: Kotischa
            The trouble of this theory is one where there is evidence of their existence.

            Traces, as was noted, a lot of trouble is that we are not able to understand this and why, we give these traces a very ordinary interpretation. But, let's imagine that as a result of a cataclysm and our own civilization - that. The death of civilization is not the death of all its representatives. The survivors will recycle and use the remnants of a past culture. The same metal will be drained to the last speck of dust. After all, it only seems that since everyone has heard about metals and are actively using them, then happen that people will not forget about metal. The same steel goes through many stages before I render it in the form of a finished product in our garage. First, it must be extracted from the earth. Before that, find an iron deposit and understand that it is iron, and not copper, for example. Then we dig it out, send it to the processing plants, smelting the ore, and then we cook steel. But if there are no those who know how to crank it all up, don’t know all the nuances, then the mere knowledge of the existence of metals will not be of any use. There will remain the knowledge that there is such steel, but there is no one to reproduce. And the farther away from us, the less likely to restore production. In and only descendant legends will be heard to descendants, no more. Or, hes. And at least Sayano-Shushenskaya. Hefty concrete box blocking the Yenisei. They will take out all the equipment from there, and only the skeleton will become. Which archaeologists of the future will declare a fortress built to control the upper river. Well, what else could it be? Hydroelectric power station? 10 years ago? Yes, you need a cure .... And there are some other savages who will really begin to use the body of the dam as a fortification. They will leave their traces. And now - done. A fortress built by savages to protect against neighbors. How? And by the forces of slaves, all sorts of primitive blocks and lifting devices. So we reason. Some pharaoh who was freaking out from the PMC pushed his carcass into the pyramid - that's all, the pyramid is such a huge coffin. And do not care that its construction would not be pulled even by the much more populated and technically armed modern Egypt. The main thing is to find an explanation that at least from a distance looked acceptable. Even if the logic didn’t sleep there. But the harmonious picture of progressive development is not broken.
          7. 0
            30 August 2018 16: 56
            Proof of? actually the pyramids, but they didn’t find tools, it’s like they found a corpse and there is no murder weapon from which they try to conclude that there was no murder
      2. BAI
        +4
        2 June 2018 10: 11
        And what about this?

        1. +2
          2 June 2018 11: 54
          I saw a helicopter and a submarine. recourse
          1. +6
            2 June 2018 14: 56
            Quote: mordvin xnumx
            I saw a helicopter and a submarine. recourse

            and another Egyptian would see: "Ramses2, the one who defends Egypt and conquers foreign lands" over the old inscription: "Seti1, the one who repelled the nine enemies of Egypt."
            but it’s certainly not as interesting as conspiracy theory
            1. BAI
              +1
              2 June 2018 21: 21
              : "Ramses2, the one who defends Egypt and conquers foreign lands"

              And why are these "hieroglyphs", "letters", etc. not found anywhere else? Specially invented for this single plate?
              1. +1
                3 June 2018 05: 09
                [quote = BAI] [quote]:
                And why are these "hieroglyphs", "letters", etc. not found anywhere else? [/ quote]

                But this is the right question! maybe because there were no helicopters?
                http://forum.worldoftanks.ru/index.php?/topic/552
                592-abydos-hieroglyphs-tanks-helicopters-ancients /
                1. BAI
                  0
                  3 June 2018 10: 22
                  Of course, anything can be explained by the distortion of hieroglyphs. And this is the simplest explanation.
                  Or maybe it's still not a hieroglyph?
                  This insect has survived and is found in other texts. And here is a unique distortion. If desired, any picture (not a letter) can be interpreted as you like.


                  1. +1
                    3 June 2018 10: 38
                    Quote: BAI
                    If desired, any picture (not a letter) can be interpreted as you like.
                    Yes
                    what are you doing.

                    By the way, the full inscription looks like this - this Thutmose 3 wiped the titles of Hatshepsut. It’s a pity, the plaster did not survive - for sure, on top of it, he painted a microwave and an iPhone
                    1. BAI
                      0
                      3 June 2018 12: 36
                      So what? I saw this image. He brought where the insect is close-up. It is in other texts and is well known.

                      If the Egyptians wanted to erase something, they erased inscriptions and the faces of giant statues. And here, they didn’t clean anything and made an inscription on top of the existing one, and even defects. So anything can be explained.
                      This explanation



                      nothing better than others. It is more convenient - you don’t need to think, you do not need to change any established views.
                      1. 0
                        3 June 2018 15: 40
                        at school, if the letter could be corrected, corrected with a pen. No, they washed it with a razor ...
                        but your version about helicopters is certainly better
              2. 0
                17 June 2018 12: 28
                Because the new inscription fell on the old. This happens on as often as it could
    2. +5
      2 June 2018 12: 47
      Quote: Boris55
      Tell me, has it ever occurred to you that these are traces of a vulgar civilization?

      As I understand it, you mean a global civilization of a planetary scale.
      I think any normal person endowed with curiosity and fantasy, such or similar thoughts came to mind. The question is different.
      People perceive information in different ways and, with absolutely identical premises, are able to make diametrically opposite conclusions. I remember a joke about logic, dialectics and philosophy in the understanding of Vasily Ivanovich. At the same time, there are people who do not perceive as truth what is not proven, but there are people who perceive as truth what is not refuted. In addition, when considering different issues, the same people may be in the first case in the first category, and in the other - in the second.
      In my opinion, the hypothesis about the presence of a global highly developed civilization on our planet, which died as a result of a certain event on a planetary scale, is based solely on the presence of finds, the true origin and purpose of which is unknown to modern humanity, that is, on doubts. In my opinion, this is catastrophically not enough to consider such a hypothesis seriously.
      1. +2
        2 June 2018 14: 01
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        In my opinion, this is disastrously small in order to consider such a hypothesis seriously.

        There are so many unexplained artifacts that it is simply impossible not to consider. But all academic science strictly monitors that this would not happen. There you go.
        1. Alf
          +2
          2 June 2018 17: 58
          Quote: Boris55
          But all academic science strictly monitors that this would not happen. There you go.

          If the facts do not fit into the system, the worse for the facts.
  11. +4
    2 June 2018 09: 14
    I agree that the overwhelming number of puzzles and artifacts can be explained rationally from the point of view of modern science, but there are also many who clearly cannot “debunk”. The ancient history of the Earth (and not only ancient) is full of mysteries, including not from this planet, why not ... And many "researchers of the unknown" openly speculate on this, drawing facts to their ears in favor of their theories (and fees). Thanks to the author for the article .. A series of articles with "exposing the focus" and intelligible explanations of various mysterious things and events would be interesting.
    1. +3
      2 June 2018 12: 39
      Quote: KVU-NSVD
      I agree that the overwhelming number of puzzles and artifacts can be explained rationally from the point of view of modern science

      You're right, but ... here you were, Palace Square in St. Petersburg? Without going into the jungle of stories ... you can from a modern point of view, given the current technological level and industrial, explain how the Alexander Column was made and how it was installed.
      1. +3
        2 June 2018 12: 54
        Well, certainly not aliens. It is known who, how, and how much they paid ... under sovereign Nikolai the First, the bureaucracy worked well!
        1. +1
          2 June 2018 12: 55
          Quote: kalibr
          Well, certainly not aliens. It is known who, how, and how much they paid ... under Mother Empress the bureaucracy worked well!

          I'm not talking about aliens ... so you did not answer ... who and how?
          1. +4
            2 June 2018 15: 15
            Guys! Two years! As - I do not know, was not interested. But I know that there are documents. And how they searched for Thunder-stone, and how they carried it, too. And about the medal minted in memory of his delivery.
      2. +1
        3 June 2018 22: 55
        Here's what the construction looked like:

        Painting by artist Denisov from nature
    2. 0
      30 August 2018 17: 29
      ". It would be interesting to have a series of articles with" exposing the focus "and intelligible explanations of various mysterious things and events" especially how they polished granite so finely, for example, on sarcophagi - are there any versions? except for the ancient highly developed
  12. +1
    2 June 2018 09: 36
    On Ren TV, another custom trend is now) there they prove that we all came from the Limurians !!! and they, incidentally, they claimed lived thousands of years. So the retirement age in Russia can be safely raised to 100 years wassat
    1. 0
      4 June 2018 11: 37
      so specifically we are from Hyperboreans
  13. +3
    2 June 2018 10: 46
    Question to the author ... not that I was a fan of the hypotheses of Muldashev or Von Deniken, but ...
    The design of this underground room was so perfect that its safety was almost perfect even after a thousand years. The stones of the walls and vault were carved with such art that not one of them fell from its place.

    These lines ... tell me, the author, at our current technological and industrial level, we are able to build a building, a structure that would have stood for several thousand years, so that the masonry does not fall off the stone, and that this building is generally preserved, buried on a thousand years underground, in an extreme climate for buildings?
    1. +5
      2 June 2018 12: 59
      Quote: NEXUS
      , a facility that has stood for several thousand years,

      Later Rus deciphered two calendar dates. They corresponded to 603 and 633. n er

      Several more than one thousand years. The pyramids in Egypt are much older.
      Quote: NEXUS
      in extreme climate for buildings
      Is the temperature constant throughout the year, not falling to zero Celsius and humidity - extreme conditions? In fullness. Extreme conditions are constant transitions of temperature through zero and wind. In Russia they are extreme, and in the tropical forests of Mexico they are actually greenhouses.
      And heavy stone blocks placed on each other in a certain way, even without mortar, can stand for a very long time under their own weight. The service life of such a structure is limited only by the strength of the stone.
      1. +2
        2 June 2018 13: 04
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        A heavy stone blocks set on top of each other

        Which certainly put slaves with their bare hands .. lol
        Quote: Trilobite Master
        The service life of such a structure is limited only by the strength of the stone.

        That's right ... but I didn’t ask what these structures are. And yes, the humidity for masonry is extreme conditions, given the age of the buildings.
        I asked, taking into account our modern technologies and the industrial level, HOW THESE CONSTRUCTIONS ARE BUILT, and why we are building modern buildings not so durable? After all, today we are the peak of human technological evolution.
        1. +7
          2 June 2018 14: 33
          Quote: NEXUS
          I asked, given our modern technology and industrial level. HOW WAS CONSTRUCTED DATA FOR BUILDING and why are we building modern buildings not so durable?

          It's just that simple. We need to build fast. They are not in a hurry. Hence the difference. If I were to set an appropriate task, allocate funds and time to build something super-monumental, I am sure that contemporaries would have surpassed their ancestors by a wide margin. smile
          As for the technologies that were used - they are devoted to the whole research. You can ask.
          1. +3
            2 June 2018 14: 52
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            It's just that simple. We need to build fast.

            An excuse for a weak C grade ... why should we build a bridge that has a life of 100 years, while during the entire life cycle requiring repairs, maintenance, etc. ... old (ancient) bridges of 500 years are made of BRICK Masonry ( the brick is now compared to the ancient cardboard) and they at least have something.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            They were in no hurry.

            Seriously? You look at the volume of construction around the world of stones, bricks, etc. at least 500 years ago ... there are industrial scales for a minute. And Uncle Mykola did not sit and chiselled in a backyard pebbles.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            I’m sure that contemporaries would surpass their ancestors by a huge margin to allocate funds and time for the construction of something super-monumental.

            It is a masterpiece. wassat I'd like to listen, for example, when allocating money and technology, contemporaries would repeat the production of the Alexander Column, I'm not talking about the Egyptian pyramids. wassat It’s interesting how you tell me.
            Quote: Trilobite Master
            As for the technologies that were used - they are devoted to the whole research. You can ask.

            Research? For example, did you see red brick forts near Kaliningrad, for example? If you go inside, then inside the wall, the floor and the ROOF CEILING are lined with bricks, and you can’t do just that with one edelweiss for designing. And this brick does not sprinkle, it costs 300-500 years. And this official bike about eggs, fastening the masonry is a masterpiece of idiocy. Well, the hens (given the scale of construction of red brick across the earth) should have laid eggs with the speed of a Gatling machine gun. wassat
            1. +4
              2 June 2018 17: 05
              I was in Kaliningrad and at the forts, and in the ruins of the crusader castles. In the castle of Shaaken, for example, are only 500 forts built years ago? It seems to be known exactly when. Where later, and who built, and drawings - everything is there. Already there is no need for fantasies.
            2. +5
              2 June 2018 17: 07
              If you go inside, then inside the wall, the floor and the ROOF CEILING are lined with bricks, and you can’t do just that with one edelweiss for designing. And this brick does not pour in, it costs 300-500 years.

              Fort "Emperor Alexander I", built under Nicholas I, construction began 180 years ago, thirty years abandoned, now guided tours. Ceilings - vaulted brick! I think it will still stand as much.

              I'd like to listen, for example, when allocating money and technology, contemporaries would repeat the production of the Alexander Column, I'm not talking about the Egyptian pyramids.

              Andrey, now - they wouldn’t repeat it. Only if stubborn enthusiasts! fellow Because .. the person is different! wink lazy people ... request
              1. +2
                2 June 2018 18: 27
                Quote: Mikado
                Only if stubborn enthusiasts!

                No, they wouldn’t repeat it, since even the production of bricks is such that they are already crumbling in factories on pallets.
                1. +3
                  2 June 2018 20: 33
                  right too. The people were lazy laughing
                  1. +2
                    2 June 2018 20: 38
                    Quote: Mikado
                    right too. The people were lazy laughing

                    It's not a matter of laziness, but of technology ... the old brick has stood for centuries ... the tunnels lined with bricks in a circle, in the form of a pipe, are very indicative ... call the mason and let him also cover, and give a guarantee of at least 100 years. industrial technological processes are lost, and to some we grow and grow.
                  2. +5
                    2 June 2018 22: 51
                    Quote: Mikado
                    right too. The people were lazy

                    You are arguing with anyone, with any wisdom of all known sciences, okstitsya, emperor ...)))
                    call the mason and let him overtake him in the same way, and give a guarantee of at least 100 years. Many industrial technological processes have been lost, and up to some we grow and grow.
                    I live in a private house and personally am ready to invite you to the basement of the 25th year of difficulty, so that you appreciate the fortress of the building and do not talk about what you have no idea. I can invite you to the territory of the local brewery, where communications freshened along the old tracks --- stone bags of tracks stand stronger than new in pre-revolutionary bags, why are you stuttering about the fragility of a brick, clown?)))
                    1. Cat
                      +3
                      3 June 2018 04: 45
                      I will add a little!
                      God forbid, by old Soviet standards, a brick house should have stood for 100 years, a panel - 50!
                      hi
                      1. +2
                        3 June 2018 06: 42
                        In turn, supplement. For any construction, there were estimated operating periods. However, there is a slight “but.” If individual projects were developed for many industrial facilities, then most residential and socio-cultural structures were built according to several identical ones, without taking into account local environmental conditions. And they were sculpted from Central Asia to the Far North. A vivid example, absolutely identical buildings of city hospitals in the cities of Polar Dawns and Pripyat. But if in this case the climatic and geological operating conditions are not very different, then the Spitak earthquake showed that such an approach sometimes turns into a lot of blood.
                      2. 0
                        4 June 2018 11: 42
                        regarding calculations: Back in the Middle Ages everything was built without drawings and calculations. Arabic numerals when we appeared in the XI-XIII century and you try to count them as Roman numerals!
                      3. 0
                        4 June 2018 11: 43
                        regarding calculations: Back in the Middle Ages everything was built without drawings and calculations. Arabic numerals when we appeared in the XI-XIII century and you try to count Roman numerals!
    2. +2
      2 June 2018 13: 05
      Are able! But the mentality is different. The main question is why? Why so expensive construction? And then they were built for centuries because of the availability of material. A stone ax for millennia ... But the Stone Age did not end because the reserves of stone were impoverished. Mentality and technology have changed.
      1. +2
        2 June 2018 13: 41
        Quote: kalibr
        Able! But the mentality is different. The main question is why?

        Seriously? Only one crane can lift a plate weighing 1200 tons, and it was created not so long ago ... or will you tell tales about thousands of slaves, ropes and logs?
        The same Egyptian pyramids ... technologically put a block weighing under 30 tons to a height of 100 meters. Tell us how it was done then.
        1. +2
          2 June 2018 14: 52
          and where is the plate weighing 1200 tons raised?
          1. +1
            2 June 2018 14: 55
            Quote: Tlauicol
            and where is the plate weighing 1200 tons raised?

            Excuse me, but moved such plates as? There are plates of 800 tons and 1000 ... and not only in Egypt. Dragging? Are you serious?
        2. +4
          2 June 2018 14: 59
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: kalibr
          Able! But the mentality is different. The main question is why?

          Seriously? Only one crane can lift a plate weighing 1200 tons, and it was created not so long ago ... or will you tell tales about thousands of slaves, ropes and logs?
          The same Egyptian pyramids ... technologically put a block weighing under 30 tons to a height of 100 meters. Tell us how it was done then.

          it has long been. About 20 years ago or so. A popular channel, maybe NG, maybe a discovery, or so (well, I don’t remember now ... alas) It’s simple, they have shown it through experience - maybe. Only by human forces.
          Do not multiply entities.
          1. +2
            2 June 2018 15: 04
            Quote: Ecilop
            it has long been. About 20 years ago or so. A popular channel, maybe NG, maybe a discovery, or so (well, I don’t remember now ... alas) It’s simple, they have shown it through experience - maybe. Only by human forces

            I saw this performance ... these tales about slaves, logs and ropes are nothing but the tales of the Vienna woods. I repeat, lift a plate weighing 30 tons to a height of 100 meters.
            1. +2
              2 June 2018 15: 09
              What kind of stove is 30 tons? Where?
              1. +2
                2 June 2018 15: 25
                Quote: Tlauicol
                What kind of stove is 30 tons? Where?

                Well, for example, here's one ... or rather a monolithic block

                You can recall Stonehenge ... and the Egyptian pyramids on high tiers are also not built of bricks. At the same time, the same bottom plates that weigh not one and not 10 tons also had to be dragged and stolen so that the knife blade did not pass.
                1. +4
                  2 June 2018 15: 45
                  Well, where is the height of 100 meters?

                  the blade of the knife here may not work, but the child will fit in entirely - obviously an alien trash
                  1. +1
                    2 June 2018 15: 50
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    Well, where is the height of 100 meters?

                    Do not like 100 meters? Raise such a brick at least to such a height and lay ...
                    I appreciated the joke about the child.
                    1. +3
                      2 June 2018 17: 02
                      Such a stone is laid at the base of the Japanese Osaka castle! By the way, my article about Sekignahara was also here, and about this castle his photos were there. And here, too, everyone was surprised, how, how, oh and oh ... And then we found out that it was not a stone, but simply a big plate! On the ass set. It’s also hard, but not so much!
                2. +4
                  2 June 2018 16: 51
                  Once again ... before writing a wicked phrase about a knife blade ... find and read my and Milayeva's articles about Egyptian pyramids. There are fist-sized slots! They are here in the whole series with photos from the scene!
                  1. +5
                    2 June 2018 20: 35
                    Yes, it was last year, the cycle "War, Gold and the Pyramids." And the photo, "debunking the blade of a knife," was near, if I’m not mistaken, it was also. what
                3. BAI
                  +1
                  2 June 2018 19: 53
                  Can you recall stonehenge

                  Its really interesting to remember.

                  1. BAI
                    0
                    2 June 2018 20: 11
                    Here are dozens of photos
                    https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/4489288/post241
                    213509
                    , in particular, this (concrete casting somehow does not pull on the centuries-old megalith), and an explanation to whom and why it was needed.
                    1. +6
                      2 June 2018 20: 42
                      The same photo wanders from one comment to another. No others? Dozens of them? Fine! But Stonehenge was described and painted before the invention of concrete. It could be its reconstruction as a tourist attraction. That's all. The remains of the palace in Knossos restored in Crete also have nothing to do with what judging by the photo they found there. And what is this talking about? Only that Evans had a good fantasy and he created an interesting tourist attraction. That's all!
                      1. BAI
                        0
                        2 June 2018 21: 31
                        The same photo wanders from one comment to another. No others?

                        Is.

                        But Stonehenge was described and painted before the invention of concrete.
                        that Evans had a good fantasy and he created an interesting tourist attraction.

                        It is done, and recently. At least after the invention of airplanes. No antiquity.
                    2. 0
                      3 June 2018 05: 19
                      Quote: BAI
                      Here are dozens of photos
                      https://www.liveinternet.ru/users/4489288/post241
                      213509
                      , in particular, this (concrete casting somehow does not pull on the centuries-old megalith), and an explanation to whom and why it was needed.

                      probably if you ever say that teeth grow on top of fillings - you will believe Yes
                      1. BAI
                        0
                        3 June 2018 10: 35
                        probably if you ever say that teeth grow on top of fillings - you will believe

                        I prefer to believe my impudent shameless eyes, than someone’s honest word.



            2. +1
              2 June 2018 16: 51
              Quote: NEXUS
              Quote: Ecilop
              it has long been. About 20 years ago or so. A popular channel, maybe NG, maybe a discovery, or so (well, I don’t remember now ... alas) It’s simple, they have shown it through experience - maybe. Only by human forces

              I saw this performance ... these tales about slaves, logs and ropes are nothing but the tales of the Vienna woods. I repeat, lift a plate weighing 30 tons to a height of 100 meters.

              these are not fairy tales, Andrey, but quite justified facts. What were confirmed by "experiments" somewhere in the 70s.
              Yes, Andrey, maybe. Only by force in the howling of human beings.
              1. +1
                2 June 2018 18: 24
                Quote: Ecilop
                Yes, Andrey, maybe. Only by force in the howling of human beings.

                No Alexei, I think that the ancient people (I'm not talking about cavemen) were much more technologically advanced than they usually thought. At the same time, we are not able to repeat much of what they’ve built even now with all of their industry, technology and bloated conceit. Examples, at least you eat around the world.
                1. +2
                  2 June 2018 18: 55
                  at least one example for a laugh? what, homo sovremenikus stones in the pyramid can not be folded?
                  1. +1
                    2 June 2018 19: 06
                    Quote: Tlauicol
                    at least one example for a laugh? what, homo sovremenikus stones in the pyramid can not be folded?

                    Pf ... Egyptian pyramid ... not even the biggest ...
                    And yes, do not forget to repeat the Alexander Column, and then together we will laugh together.
                    Moreover, for the purity of the experiment, it is even better if you build or produce it without cranes, helicopters, excavators, etc. ...
                    1. +4
                      2 June 2018 19: 36
                      The construction of the monument was entrusted to the architect Auguste Montferrand, who enthusiastically took up the implementation of the project.
                      He traveled to Finland several times and outlined a rock that was supposed to be used for a future column.
                      Six months went to the edge of the monolith. Two and a half hundred of the most skillful and experienced stone cutters, headed by the Frenchman - stone work master Eugene Pascal, were engaged in this difficult work.
                      After the masons, having carefully examined the rock, confirmed the suitability of the material, a prism was cut off from it, significantly exceeding the size of the future column. Unique devices were used - huge levers and gates - in order to move the block from its place and topple it onto a soft and elastic bed of fir spruce branches.
                      The question arises: how did the masons of that distant time manage to make using an eye-catching tool a perfectly even cylinder with a diameter of 3,5 meters at the base and 3,15 meters at the top, 25,6 meters high and 600 tons in weight? The current stoneworkers say that even today, having super-modern mechanisms, it is impossible to achieve such a result, and the solution to this phenomenon lies in the unique technique of the famous Samson Sukhanov. This exceptionally talented stonecutter presented granite masterpieces to the city on the Neva: columns of the Kazan Cathedral, balls on the spit of Vasilyevsky Island, Tsar-Vannu (currently located in Babolovsky Park of Tsarskoye Selo).
                      An eyewitness to the creation of the column, the Englishman Don Rogers wrote in his diary: “These men in tattered short fur coats did not need to resort to various measuring instruments; looking inquiringly at the plan or model indicated by them, they accurately and gracefully copied them. The eye meter of these people is extremely accurate. I would like to call these masters Russian wizards. ” Unfortunately, the secrets of Sukhanov’s methodology were subsequently lost, and the master himself ended his days in poverty and oblivion.
                      After the cylinder was made from the same rock, huge stones were cut down for the foundation of the monument, the largest of which weighed more than 400 tons.
                      At the technical council, it was decided to deliver huge fragments to St. Petersburg by water. To do this, I had to design and build a bot of a special design. The engineer K.A. was responsible for transportation. Glazyrin. According to his drawings, a durable wooden pier was built. To load the monolith on the bot, the engineer employed six hundred employees.
                      They managed to cope with the most difficult task, after which the bot with the cargo was towed by two powerful steamers and delivered to St. Petersburg at low speed. The merchant son V.A. was chosen as the contractor for the construction work. Yakovlev. In the spring of the 1829 of the year, work began on Palace Square to prepare “and build the foundation and pedestal of the column.” These works were personally supervised by Auguste Montferrand.
                      In December 1829, the place for the column was approved by Montferrand, and the workers proceeded to drive piles under the foundation of the future monument. A total of 1250 six-meter piles were driven. Then they were cut strictly horizontally - so that they formed a flat area under the foundation, which used stone blocks half a meter thick.
                      A niche was hollowed out in the center of the basement and a commemorative bronze casket with coins minted in honor of the triumphal victory over the French in 1812 was placed there. A platinum medal was laid there, on which a column was depicted, as well as a mortgage board with the text: “In the summer of Christmas, the 1831 began construction of a monument erected by Emperor Alexander grateful Russia on a granite foundation laid on the 19 day of November 1830 . In St. Petersburg, the construction of this monument was chaired by Count Yu. Lipa. Meetings: Prince P. Volkonsky, A. Olenin, Count P. Kutaisov, I. Gladkov, L. Karbonier, A. Vasilchikov. The construction was done according to the design of the same architect Augustine de Montferand ”(so in the then transcription it was customary to officially name Auguste Montferrand).
                      1. +5
                        2 June 2018 19: 42
                        Continuation: Mysterious townspeople spread the rumor that the French architect entered into a deal with the devil, who supposedly helped to cut down and deliver the convoy to the city on the Neva.
                        In June 1832, the pedestal was completed, and the monolith of the column was on the way. For installation, a lifting system was created. It included scaffolding with a height of 47 meters, 60 capstans (the so-called mechanisms for moving heavy loads, which consisted of a vertically mounted shaft, on which a chain was wound during rotation) and a block system.
                        On 30 of August 1832, crowds of people gathered to watch this event: they blocked the whole square, the windows and the roof of the General Staff building were also occupied by spectators. Sovereign Nicholas I and the entire imperial family came to the rise.
                        To bring the column upright on Palace Square, it was necessary to attract the forces of 2000 soldiers and 400 workers, who installed a monolith in 1 hour and 45 minutes. Its peak was crowned by the figure of an angel with a cross, trampling on a snake, made by sculptor B.I. Orlovsky.
                        After installation, the people shouted three times: “Hurray!” And the admiring emperor said: “Montferrand, you yourself have immortalized!”
                        These words turned out to be prophetic - centuries later, the name of the great Montferrand lives in the hearts of grateful citizens, and his creation became the hallmark of the city on the Neva.
                        Emperor Nicholas I persuaded the sculptor Orlovsky to give the face of the angel some resemblance to Alexander I, the snake's face trampled upon by the cross of the angel, resembling Napoleon. Only after that the emperor accepted the project.
                        Magazine: Secrets of the 20 Century No. 11, March 2018 of the Year
                        Category: Myth and Reality
                        Posted by: Vladimir Barsov
                      2. +1
                        2 June 2018 19: 42
                        Quote: kalibr
                        “These men in ragged short fur coats did not need to resort to various measuring tools; looking inquiringly at the plan or model indicated by them, they accurately and gracefully copied them. The eye meter of these people is extremely accurate. I would like to call these masters Russian wizards. ”

                        Hmm ... bedtime stories ... men, hewn ... yes so for sure, with the centering ... do you speak eye?
                        This is from the category — in one distant distant galaxy ...
                        By the way, did the columns in the Hermitage also bale and grind each half year?
                        And how did they lift this Alexander column now vertically?
                        At the same time, you did not answer my question — are we able to do this today?
                    2. +2
                      2 June 2018 20: 23



                      tlauicol
                      at least one example for a laugh? what, homo sovremenikus stones in the pyramid can not be folded?

                      NEXUS
                      Pf ... Egyptian pyramid ... not even the biggest ...


                      Maxim Lebedev: Myths about the builders of the pyramids
                    3. +4
                      3 June 2018 05: 30
                      Handsome man! Do you propose to a man of the 21st century who builds skyscrapers in three weeks and launches tens of tons of cargo into space manually breaking stone and putting it into a pyramid for 20 years? Or process the already established column for two more years in patterns for the purity of the experiment?
                      For your part, are you not going to demonstrate any alien reconstructions or casting of granite and moving blocks with the power of thought? for prosralipolymers and secret knowledge are lost?
                      to begin with, just admit that you lied about both 100m and about the lifting of 1200 tons - you don’t need to turn bags (lumps) for this
        3. +4
          2 June 2018 15: 21
          Here were my and Milayeva's articles about the pyramids ... Why repeat it? Even a papyrus was found, where a nobleman describes how he was sent to oversee the extraction of stone. There was a photo of the bas-relief, which depicts the construction with the help of inclined ramps and a cart of stones. Everything was ... And, by the way, in none of the pyramids of plates in 30 there are tons. There are obelisks, including those remaining in the quarries. But there is a different technology. By the way, also reflected in the bas-reliefs. And by the way, no slaves of the pyramid were built. At that time in Egypt there were not so many of them. And again, everything was excavated, and the towns of the builders, and the notes are, what they were fed and how. Bureaucracy is bad for life, but wonderful for historians!
          1. +5
            2 June 2018 15: 47
            there is one 35 ton slab in Cheops, but not high. and it's not 2000 tons of Thunder-stone of course
      2. +5
        2 June 2018 15: 34
        Quote: kalibr
        Are able! But the mentality is different. The main question is why? Why so expensive construction? And then they were built for centuries because of the availability of material. A stone ax for millennia ... But the Stone Age did not end because the reserves of stone were impoverished. Mentality and technology have changed.

        Vyacheslav! Let me try to answer you, although my answer is probably not addressed to you. You already know everything perfectly. But since there was a question: "why?"
        So, any empire goes through three stages.
        1. Conquest. It is important historical figures who could.
        2. Retention. But this is the most interesting moment. When, roughly speaking, managers come to replace the conquerors. And it is from this moment that the real greatness of the empire begins
        And it is from this moment that what costs for centuries begins. Because we can. In different ways. Sometimes for the image. But mainly for the Empire.
        What ends with the moment "why build for centuries, 10 years is enough, but we'll think about it"
        3. And the natural decline and oh ....
        Refute it?
        1. +3
          2 June 2018 16: 55
          Only in the broader sense that any phenomenon in society includes 5 stages, the origin, development, culmination, decline and death, and ... "life in the backyard." You have identified three central and main points in relation to such a phenomenon as the state.
  14. +2
    2 June 2018 11: 33
    An interesting nose shape in these images.
    1. +2
      2 June 2018 13: 06
      On this occasion, the same Kazantsev wrote the novel "Sharper the Swords"!
      1. +3
        2 June 2018 14: 17
        And I remembered Cyrano de Bergerac ..)
        1. +3
          2 June 2018 18: 38
          It was about him that Kazantsev wrote the novel. It is called "Bubbling Emptiness", and "The Edge of the Sword" - about Pierre Fermat.
          1. +1
            3 June 2018 06: 57
            Aging, you see memory is already failing. But I read both that and another ...
            1. +1
              3 June 2018 11: 03
              “Bubbling Void” fascinated me, although at that time, Kazantsev’s work was cool. There was no "sword-edge" in the city library, I ordered through the bibcollector, but something did not work out, I did not read it.
  15. 0
    2 June 2018 14: 20
    Ridley Scott, before creating Prometheus, also looked at this plate. And used in the part where the alien came to life. Probably.
  16. kig
    +1
    2 June 2018 14: 21
    Sorry, but I still didn’t understand why this Inca could not be an alien ... maybe he got all the other Incas from him, is that why he got the pyramid? And in general, why such a bias? Non-alien and that's it. But this is your personal opinion, isn't it? Let's consider all the possibilities!
    1. +2
      2 June 2018 20: 49
      Everything is written in the article. Read off-diagonally. "All" opportunities are nonsense.
    2. +2
      2 June 2018 21: 02
      This is not the Inca, this is Maya
      1. kig
        +2
        3 June 2018 01: 42
        I am very glad that my oohs took it seriously laughing tongue
  17. +3
    2 June 2018 14: 53
    Thanks V.O.
    I am surprised at your energy and performance.
    1. +4
      2 June 2018 15: 30
      Habit! And then I'm retired. Recently I just broke up with the "native" university. So aki dove is gray-winged free. And what to do? Watch tv? I watch: the series "Downton Abbey", "With swallows in Kendelford", "Hornblower", "Pater Brown", "South and North", "Pride and prejudice" (English not the USA) and even "Lex". But not from morning to evening? And earlier I wrote more. Many materials that you read now from the 10 archive and more than a year ago.
      1. +2
        2 June 2018 15: 51
        Quote: kalibr
        Habit! And then I'm retired. Recently I just broke up with the "native" university. So aki dove is gray-winged free. And what to do? Watch tv? I watch: the series "Downton Abbey", "With swallows in Kendelford", "Hornblower", "Pater Brown", "South and North", "Pride and prejudice" (English not the USA) and even "Lex". But not from morning to evening? And earlier I wrote more. Many materials that you read now from the 10 archive and more than a year ago.

        I don’t even know what to say.
        Tried to watch English and Deutsch TV shows
        Not penetrated. Yes, you need to live there for a while, what to understand. IMHO.
        Honestly. Interest in politics arose after 2014
        1. +3
          2 June 2018 16: 57
          The point is not to live there, but I did not live in the 19 century, but to know how I lived and appreciate how it was shown. When, for example, they announce a dance and the servants roll the carpet behind the main protagonists, it touches me more than their spiritual experiences.
  18. +1
    2 June 2018 20: 33
    NEXUS,
    These tales are documented! Why reproduce? We cannot column. They could not ICBMs!
    1. +2
      3 June 2018 00: 45
      Quote: kalibr
      NEXUS,
      These tales are documented! Why reproduce? We cannot column. They could not ICBMs!

      To the point, Vyacheslav. This is probably the best answer for those who doubt it.
      Allow me to take your phrase into service. smile
  19. +1
    2 June 2018 20: 48
    Quote: Boris55
    traces of vulgar civilization

    Of course, these are traces of a vulgar civilization ...
  20. +2
    3 June 2018 00: 37
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Ecilop
    it has long been. About 20 years ago or so. A popular channel, maybe NG, maybe a discovery, or so (well, I don’t remember now ... alas) It’s simple, they have shown it through experience - maybe. Only by human forces

    I saw this performance ... these tales about slaves, logs and ropes are nothing but the tales of the Vienna woods. I repeat, lift a plate weighing 30 tons to a height of 100 meters.

    I don’t see anything impossible. In the presence of time, strong ropes, a sufficient number of "human forces" and competent engineers.
    I am more impressed with skyscrapers in half a kilometer.
    But perhaps, after some years, our distant descendants will say: this is unrealistic without aliens ...
    At one time he became interested: how did people get to smelting iron. After all, in its pure form is not. But is the temperature of the bonfire and the smelter clearly not enough? The answer was extremely simple. But yes, for this, several points should have coincided. And then nothing complicated.
    Like other inventions.
    I’m keeping silent about electricity.
    And how many simple things are we (humanity)
    don't know
    And the aliens look at us and laugh: the atomic bomb has already been invented, and what fornication is still not known (c) laughing
  21. +3
    3 June 2018 02: 22
    NEXUS,
    Andrew!
    I have a cousin sculptor. Or rather, I don’t even know how to. First, an artist, then worked in stone, then metal. And he did everything by eye, without laser rangefinders. Several of his works adorn Yekaterinburg.
    Vladimir Krivushin. If interesting.
    Ps. This I mean that you say it’s impossible to make a ball or cylinder by eye .....
    1. Cat
      +3
      3 June 2018 05: 11
      That's how people "scorch"! good
      If you rephrase the saying "say who your brother is ............!" bully
      Sincerely, sincerely your Cat !!! hi
    2. +2
      3 June 2018 06: 49
      Even 15 years ago, graduates of St. Petersburg "Flies" were so trained in the process of training that they drew perfect circles and parallel lines by hand.
  22. +2
    3 June 2018 06: 53
    Quote: NEXUS
    And how did they lift this Alexander column now vertically?

    Why do not you carefully read what I am writing to you? Only please listen to yourself. There is even an engraving of that time with the image of the rise of the column. But I can not discuss this issue in detail. I did not do it. The title of the article and the name of the author I informed you.
  23. +2
    3 June 2018 07: 09
    BAI,
    Excuse me for being rude, but you just don't know a damn thing. The arrogance of the ignorant, alas. Stonehenge was known long before planes and the discovery of concrete and was portrayed many times in the past. Here are the most accessible images even for our people:
    Lucas de Heere 'drawing of Stonehenge from the 1570s.
    1. BAI
      0
      3 June 2018 10: 50
      The ignoramus is you. Any picture is fake easier than a series of photographs. Sotunkhej-a monument to a literary object, and 1.5 times less than described.
      they give the only reliable place in all the scriptures of the world until 1954, where “Stonehenge” is mentioned - an excerpt from Hardy's novel about Tess. There is an episode where the characters flee from the police to the fantasy locality of “Menchester”, and in the series of non-existent objects and towns they meet the signified “Stonehenge” (but the police get them there too - the prose of life, alas (((). And they did from this object a project of this real Stonehenge, reducing the linear dimensions by 1,5 times. The writer Hardy dreamed of old England, Norman kings, Wessex legends, and often depicted similar things. One of them was embodied in the 20th century. "Menchester" is an analogue of the city of Glupov "Saltykov," The Great Guslar "Bulychev and many other masters of the word. Just a literary device is to describe non-existent countries and cities.
      Actually, the whole “history of Stonehenge” as a “spiritual phenomenon” began with the film adaptation of Hardy’s novel by director Polanski, who shot the famous scene in the newly built Menchester ’s facility.

      Where were these stones until 1954?
      1. BAI
        0
        3 June 2018 13: 44
        And more.
        Lucas de Heere 'drawing of Stonehenge from the 1570s.

        the source, located in the section "Legends and Sagas" deserves unconditional trust.


        http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/str/str04.htm
        1. 0
          4 June 2018 06: 38
          "Any picture is fake easier than a series of photographs." That is, again, all faked? How boring. And accommodation ... You only know Internet accommodation, right? And if I would put these pictures in the COSTER magazine? Would they become "childish"? Unreliable? The location is in what ARCHIVE or LIBRARY THIS ARTIFACT IS LOCATED, AND FROM WHICH YEAR HE IS KNOWN. That is, they matter cross references. I understand that you can be focused on other topics in your work, and you don’t know much about the work of archives and libraries. But not to the same extent!
  24. +1
    3 June 2018 10: 40
    3x3zsave,
    Hardly. The Egyptians mined copper from it and made paint.
  25. +2
    3 June 2018 10: 55
    BAI,

    didn’t hear about the reconstruction?


    1155 Merlin and the giants build Stonehenge (honest mother, they were not aliens belay ! )

    and this is 18th century
    1. BAI
      0
      3 June 2018 13: 10
      Oh, about Merlin, I myself wanted to say, but since they have already said, I’ll add:
      The origin of the huge Heel stone is already associated with another legend. They say that once the devil saw a hiding monk among the stones. Before the unfortunate man had time to escape, the devil threw a huge boulder at him, which crushed his heel.

      To crush a heel with a boulder is very strong!
      All this is good, but where did the stones go at the beginning of the 20th century (if they were), and why did the iron fittings stick out of the stone? This is not a reconstruction - this is a remake.
      By the way, modern scientists determine the age of construction from 4 to 140 (!!!) thousand years.
      archaeologists agreed that this architectural monument was erected in three stages between 2300 and 1900. BC.

      At the end of 1994, a professor at the University of Wales, David Bowen, determined the age of Stonehenge using the latest method. It turned out that it is 140 years old.

      The spread is not too big?
      1. +1
        3 June 2018 15: 44
        as I understand it, do you acknowledge the existence of Stonehenge until 1954?
        1. BAI
          0
          3 June 2018 19: 25
          Do you acknowledge the existence of Stonehenge until 1954?

          At least until 1911 (at least) - there is a photograph.



          Then they demolished - at this place the existing artillery range. In 1954 they restored (from scratch) - this is what photography is about. Similar to the Cathedral of Christ the Savior Cathedral in Moscow. Restored not exactly. If you restore the colossus of Rhodes, will it have any value other than the nominal?
          By the way, the most compelling argument for Stonehenge's existence is the legend of Merlin. Folk legends from scratch and are not created by order, dropping Merlin - Stonehenge was. (I'm just tired of humor on this topic).
  26. +1
    3 June 2018 17: 14
    Well, I want, that one fine day or not so much, the apparatus will come down from the sky and something comes out of it. Sometimes rationalism is gagging, and pragmatists want to rub it wholeheartedly. The eternal argument.
  27. +2
    4 June 2018 09: 28
    You are a highly developed alien civilization. You overcome the interstellar space on your ships effortlessly. Are you flying to Earth building pyramids from stone ?! Seriously? Of stone? The stupidity is incredible.
    1. +1
      4 June 2018 13: 25
      Quote: Engineer
      You are a highly developed alien civilization. You overcome the interstellar space on your ships effortlessly. Are you flying to Earth building pyramids from stone ?! Seriously? Of stone? Incredible stupidity

      What's the problem? An essential parameter characterizing civilization is the term of its existence. We have some kind of one-day civilization, wasting a huge amount of resources in vain. Why should these real civilizations, which have grown to the messtellar level, be equal to us?
      As a boundary sign that can stretch for tens of thousands of years, the same great pyramids are quite pulled. I propose to come up with some other format that is resistant to earthquakes, tsunamis, meteorites and other things, so that traces of artificial origin are preserved as long as possible. And in order to protect some lighthouse inside, carrying specifics, who set up and why.
      As for technology, biological life itself is very advanced. If there is a lot of time, but with the volumes of interstellar transport the problem is the opposite, then biology is almost an ideal solution. Imagine the civilization of some plasmoids from the solar corona or Jupiterian clouds. Those with resources will generally be plugged. It is impossible to establish either giant production lines or transport them over long distances. Meanwhile, the terrestrial planets were originally pieces of stone, from which you tormented to scrape nishtyaks. But if you have time, you can populate such a planet with biological life, which in itself will ensure the erosion of materials and their separation, consuming again only local materials for its functioning. And the plasmoids will only have to periodically skim the cream, for example, once every 10 thousand years. Perhaps they have 100 tons of gold or 1000 tons of bronze more than pay for the entire project, because stellar plasma with resources is not at all dense, solid hydrogen with helium.
      1. +1
        4 June 2018 17: 55
        Well, it came to plasmoids ...
        1. 0
          4 June 2018 23: 09
          Man "looks at the root"
          It's all about resources. There are few of them in stellar plasma — only hydrogen and helium.
          And in Siberia in bulk. Here are the plasmoids and scurry about - they are building all kinds of pyramids, distracting attention, and they are digging resources under the guise and taking them to their plasma. wassat
        2. +1
          5 June 2018 09: 41
          Quote: kalibr
          Well, it came to plasmoids ...

          But what, stop at the level of green men from fairy tales for preschoolers? In plasma, the number of different configurations and states is not much less than in solid matter. The nuclei of heavy atoms increase this diversity. Those. complex structures, which can be an analogue of biological life, will require a lot of third-party materials.
          By the way, what about the pyramids? For a military site there are much more interesting objects. For example, among Sklyarov among American inappropriate artifacts came across a megalithic building destroyed by an explosion. Multi-ton blocks are scattered around the neighborhood, in the middle there is a shallow funnel, 20 centimeters in the stone base. Historians dumped this business on the conquistadors and their powder supplies. That's interesting how much gunpowder is needed to achieve a similar effect. In my personal experience, a powder in a surface explosion doesn’t master a stone base unless it can split, crush and knock out a funnel.
  28. 0
    8 June 2018 22: 58
    Don’t flip it over, but the first thing that comes to mind is a person sitting in the cockpit and looking at the instruments. And I didn’t hear about the detailed drawings of the spaceship. There are no other similar images, and there’s not enough life to work with sources , that would sort it out. There are volumes for and against.

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