Not victims of the exam. Excellent result of Russian schoolchildren at a tournament in the USA

More news occasions are missile attacks, statements by Poroshenko or another “peaceful” Washington initiative. This news is about something else - that despite all the reforms that the Russian education system has been testing for strength in recent years, bright heads that can demonstrate outstanding results are not translated.

Thus, the prestigious international competition of research projects of students of the International Science and Engineering Fair was recently completed. This competition is often called the "Little Nobel Prize" or the "Nobel Prize for Schoolchildren." More than a thousand students from dozens of countries around the world took part in the competition, which was held in American Pittsburgh.

The Russian team showed a remarkable result, taking 9 prizes in various scientific nominations. In particular, the excellent results of the Russians were shown in the sections "Chemistry", "Mathematics", "System Software" and "Robotics".

Separate works related to the search for alternative energy sources, the development of the medical component - in particular, in the field of combating cancer.

For an example of what inventions were presented at the competition.

In particular, the Australian team presented a special Robotwho is trained to clean the windows of skyscrapers. This development took first place in its category. And its developer, Gordon Moore, received the main prize - 75 thousand dollars.

The Russian student of the Lyceum No. XXUMX of the city of Korolev Valeria Lebedeva presented an innovative medical device in the section "Biomedicine Engineering", taking the prize.

Also, Iranian Belousov from Moscow Chemical Lyceum, Alexander Serdyukov from St. Petersburg School No. XXUM, Roman Nikolaenko (NIIU MEPI training school), Daniel Semyonov and Daniil Kazantsev (Yekaterinburg 564 Lyceum), Ilya Zakharov (School No. XXUMX, Moscow), Anna Savelyeva (School # XXUMX, Moscow), Mihran Sharoyan and Pavel Khakimov (Lyceum of Kemerovo), Anastasia Andrianova and Yulia Maslova (Moscow Chemical Lyceum).

Congratulations to our students and we express our gratitude to those teachers with whom they are trained.

Comments

[Ingvar 72]

But the bulk of students are still victims of the exam. To doubters - talk with schoolchildren of 7-9 classes, and ask questions about Kutuzov, Suvorov, Nekrasov, Tyutchev. They have no idea who it is. Ask a question, what were the names of Pushkin, Lermontov. It is unlikely that they will tell you. The Soviet education system produced generalists of a wide profile, now everything is focused on narrow specialization. I doubt that the mentioned winners of the competitions know who the people I listed were.

[Logall]

Quote: Ingvar 72

victims of the exam

Quote: Ingvar 72

who were the people I listed.

By whom! Who! - people! And about Pushkin and Lermontov they will answer even today ...

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Logall

And about Pushkin and Lermontov they will answer even today ...

About surnames - yes. But it was not in vain that I emphasized names, not surnames. Doubt - ask schoolchildren on the street about the name and patronymic of Pushkin and Lermontov.

[Logall]

Quote: Ingvar 72

ask schoolchildren on the street about the name and patronymic of Pushkin and Lermontov.

Have you decided to endanger my life? Schoolchildren today are not the same! The last thing I hear, before losing consciousness, will it be - Alexander Sergeyevich, something else?

[Tatyana]

Quote: Logall

The last thing I hear, before losing consciousness, will it be - Alexander Sergeyevich, something else?

Alexander!
Unfortunately, you won’t get anywhere from the truth! You may lose consciousness!
And I, so be it, your body falling into a swoon with gentle hands gently pick up, so you do not hurt yourself! Namely. As I understand it, you personally still finished the Soviet school and did not find the exam. It’s hard for you as a poet to even imagine such a thing!

Debilitation of Russia. Andrey Fursov, Olga Chetverikova. Consumer society. Posted on: 17 Feb 2017

[Logall]

Hello Tatiana!

Quote: Tatiana

And I, so be it, your body falling into a swoon with gentle hands gently pick up

That's it, I'm going to do a survey! Hoping to be in danger ...

Quote: Tatiana

To you as a poet it’s even hard to imagine!

this is from my profile:

'' A poet in Russia is more than a poet! ''
Recently, With this phrase, someone was brought into the bar ...
Yesenin died ... Everything, there are no more poets!
Last - He was a poet in Russia ...

[bouncyhunter]

Tatyana Let me give you an example: the other day I learned from a tenth-grader neighbor that Gorbachev sold Alaska to mattresses. To my question about Damansky Island and the conflict (what my father and I talked about), he completely perplexedly asked: "And where is this?" .

[Tatyana]

Paul!
Unfortunately, this happens in post-Soviet education throughout the former national SSR. Namely.
For example. The historian Andrei Fursov clearly explains who and for what purpose destroyed Soviet education. Why does the Unified State Examination and the Bologna system train not creators and analysts, but "qualified consumers" who are not inclined to analyze reality. How to help your children become diversified personalities and get a full education.

A worthy education can only be obtained contrary to the system. Andrey Fursov. Posted: 26 Apr 2017

[Tatyana]

On my own behalf, I will add the following according to the modern quality of education: what is already characteristic even among the faculty of post-Soviet training.

2 years ago, I participated in the annual n / a conference with the participation of faculty and graduate students from various universities in our country and from abroad.
I remembered the research report of one of the Russian graduate students. The subject of her research was: how citizens of the country perceive and evaluate the political and economic situations in Russia. Moreover, as a result of the study, it turned out to be a discovery for her that people under the age of 35 were unable to independently assess the situation in the country and think fragmentarily with cliches borrowed from the media, etc. They were not able to combine information together. They did not have an independent analysis and synthesis of the information received. But those people who are 35-70 years old have their own analytical and synthesis opinion, adequate to the existing reality!
The graduate student could not explain this in any way in order to complete her Ph.D. thesis.
I had to explain to her that Soviet education in its teaching methodology did not rely on the blind cramming of students, as is done now with the introduction of the Unified State Examination and the Bologna university system, but on the development of the methodology of scientific knowledge itself - on the systematic development of scientific methods of cognition. This is what allows you to gain new knowledge, make scientific discoveries and inventions and manage the society on the part of those in power. That is what turned into a post-Soviet education in Soros in the so-called "secret technology of knowledge" for the "uninitiated" by those in power in bourgeois Russia and the former Soviet Union republics.
For if you understand the methodology, i.e. if you know scientifically sound and scientifically untenable methods of cognition and know how to distinguish and use them in practice, you always have the opportunity to distinguish the correct conclusions as your own guide to action from manipulating different kinds of Machiavellians from politics and science.

[mari.inet]

Dear Tatyana. I don’t know how well you are able to analyze your own life stages, but in my personal experience I can say the following.
Indeed, up to 30-35 years, it is difficult for a person to navigate large-scale events. It is basically impossible to independently assess the situation - there is not enough banal life experience (childhood and adolescence is a separate stage and a special “experience”), the ability to rely on events of the past (because the past is not enough on the time scale), the ability to compose a complete picture of disparate information pieces. Consciousness works just fragmentary.
But then, after 35, something changes significantly in the way a person thinks. Perhaps this is the nature of brain development, who knows. And suddenly there is the ability to evaluate, the ability to whole worldview.
After 45, a real enthusiasm for events taking place in the world already comes. Ability to interpret certain facts. The ability to intuitively find the right solution to the problem. Real life experience is already making itself felt. A person comes to a sense of self-maturity ..
So it was with people who grew up in the Soviet Union. But in addition, the one-sidedness of the available information played its evil role. When Perestroika was announced, did every citizen of Soviet society understand its pros and cons? Did you foresee the consequences? But the education was the same for everyone, according to the Soviet system. Which completely did not affect the behavior of people when the USSR collapsed. Again, no one really understood what was happening, what the collapse of a single Union threatens the country and people. It seemed that it would be not the USSR, but the CIS, so what is so terrible? People did not have such a life experience, did not go through similar situations, lacked voluminous thinking.
Therefore, I think that it is a little incorrect to praise Soviet education and blame Russian education, giving examples of some insolvency of young people. Everything has its time.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: mari.inet

After 45, a real enthusiasm for events taking place in the world already comes. Ability to interpret certain facts. The ability to intuitively find the right solution to a problem

The evidence for your words is that all the organizers of the revolution (no matter what, whether in politics or religion) rely on youth and illiteracy, without a clear definition in life.

Quote: mari.inet

to blame the Russian

Do you really think Russian education is Russian?

[nadezhiva]

Ilyich at one time made a bet on illiterate sections of the population. And he did it. Yeltsin’s team relied on the enlightened. It turned out the same. But the current revolutionaries somehow do not stick

[Captain45]

Quote: Tatiana

Moreover, as a result of the study, it turned out to be a discovery for her that people under the age of 35 were unable to independently assess the situation in the country and think fragmentarily with cliches borrowed from the media, etc. They were not able to combine information together.

Well, it’s not in vain that the Minister of Medicine Skvortsova proposed that children be considered to be 30 years old, to 30 this is ... this .... Damn ... Gaidar in the 16 regiment commanded, Marat Kazei in 15 the punitive general blew up.
Yes ... there were people nowadays
Not that the current tribe
Heroes!
Not you ..... (s)
Where and who is the author? Fit right? to assess the level of knowledge

[Proxima]

What a strong education was in the USSR (!!!), if they still cannot break it with all kinds of “reforms” for 27 years already! But it seems to me that the supply from the Soviet Union is almost exhausted. What is happening at school with my children is incomprehensible to the mind! Now the bulk of the teachers are those who studied in the pedagogy in the dashing 90s and zero. What they learned there and what they teach (and most importantly "how") is a separate story, unfortunately, very sad.

[g1v2]

"System software" and "Robotics" - Soviet school education? Cool joke.

[reservist]

Quote: g1v2

"System Software"

under Soviet rule, the above-mentioned training school of NRNU MEPhI had a similar subject, only it was called a little different
but in lyceum №5 of the city of Korolev (earlier it was just the 5th Bolshevskaya school) the subject “Biomedical Engineering” in the last century was definitely not there, but no one complained about the level of teaching chemistry and biology
Of course, there were no "robotics", and now it is unlikely that the whole class will be allowed to tinker with the arduino somewhere, you need to go to the elective

[nadezhiva]

It's not even about robotics. No one in the Soviet school gave olympiad assignments for state exams in physics / mathematics / chemistry / computer science. And at the current exam ... easy. It has never occurred to any teacher to cram assignments on informatics for grades 9-10 into the program of the 7th. And now - easily. At me, the child’s tutor in physics, the dearest lady of fifty, makes the eyes of a polar owl and starts to swear when the child is sobbing over the homework in physics, with tasks of the 4th difficulty level. And teachers ... teachers do not take tasks from textbooks to control ones. It's too easy. Tasks are drawn up so that children cannot even find similar tasks with solutions on the Internet.

[reservist]

when the USE was introduced, they said that they say they played in high schools with entrance exams, which you can really prepare for only with high school tutors or at paid high school preparatory courses, inaccessible to visitors
because Now, for entering a university, only the USE score is important (we won’t talk about the Olympiads, there aren’t very many of them), it seems that now the "games" with school exams have begun, which in general was predictable ...

[nadezhiva]

Well, what a way to fool everything? At all times there were DIFFERENT schools. Both bad and good. And before the Soviet school, and during, and after it. Why don’t you spit on Tsarskoye Selo Lyceum? Forgive me, but Alexander Sergeyevich came out with very mediocre knowledge of mathematics. Lean, I would say, even for that time. No one belittles Soviet education. But .... Soviet education, along with cramming of full (hurt your achievements) names, never gave the knowledge that children now receive in computer science / mathematics / foreign language. And the upcoming mandatory exam in history ... Introduces parents into a non-drug coma immediately.
Can't you just be happy for the kids?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: nadezhiva

Can't you just be happy for the kids?

Yes, I'm glad for them, Nadia. But to turn a blind eye to the UNIVERSAL degradation in education, critical thinking does not allow.

[-Pollux]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But to turn a blind eye to the UNIVERSAL degradation in education, critical thinking does not allow.

But there is no such degradation. The school curriculum has become more complicated, children have become smarter and today's youth does not mow from the army.

[Mestny]

I would also add this.
The percentage of excellent students and gifted children is about the same as it was. Accordingly, the percentage of full oaks is preserved.
I am personally familiar with the situation personally, since both my spouse and I myself work in the educational system, namely in school.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Mestny

The percentage of excellent students and gifted children is about the same as it was.

A weak current exams to test the Soviet program?
P.S. The percentage of gifted students in the Caucasus is several times higher!

[-Pollux]

Quote: Ingvar 72

A weak current exams to test the Soviet program?

Is it weak to send your children to school and learn everything personally?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pollux

Is it weak to send your children to school and learn everything personally?

I already answered below. Weakly view all comments?

[militia2]

Maybe this is certainly true, but my wife today at this time (9:25), when you wrote your opinion, was in the classroom, namely in school.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Pollux

The curriculum has become more difficult

Do not tell my slippers, which is harder? !!!
maths?!
physics?!!!!!!
maybe chemistry ?!
all that could change is computer science and programming, and elementary physics, planimetry, stereometry and algebra, remained the same

Quote: Pollux

kids got smarter

and what is it expressed in? !!!

[reservist]

I would say "trickier" or something ...
my here are videos of missed lectures then they listen on a computer
well, and if necessary, then not only missed

[region58]

Quote: reservist

videos of missed lectures are then listened to on a computer

And the cheat sheets are not copied and photographed ...

[reservist]

Well, yes, why rewrite, with a smartphone it’s more convenient ...
and if you need to hand over your mobile phone in front of the control, then in this case there is a second gadget ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: reservist

it’s more convenient with a smartphone

there was a huge plus in old spurs, while you write everything you learn

[mari.inet]

The Russian language has changed, biology, history has changed, social science has appeared. Capacitive subjects. And quite complicated.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mari.inet

biology has changed

??
I mean, do you need to study homosexuals?

Quote: mari.inet

social science appeared

uh

Excuse me, are you up to date with the topic?

Quote: mari.inet

Capacitive subjects. And quite complicated.

mdaaaaa

[Captain45]

Quote: mari.inet

social science appeared.

In my time (70-80-e years) such an object was called social science and there was still an object - the foundations of state and law.

[Tatyana]

Quote: Pollux

But there is no such degradation. The school curriculum has become more complicated, children have become smarter ...

2 years ago, I participated in the annual n / a conference with the participation of faculty and graduate students from various universities in our country and from abroad.
I remembered the research report of one of the Russian graduate students. The subject of her research was: how citizens of the country perceive and evaluate the political and economic situations in Russia. Moreover, as a result of the study, it turned out to be a discovery for her that people under the age of 35 were unable to independently assess the situation in the country and think fragmentarily with cliches borrowed from the media, etc. They were not able to combine information together. They did not have an independent analysis and synthesis of the information received. But those people who are 35-70 years old have their own analytical and synthesis opinion, adequate to the existing reality!
The graduate student could not explain this in any way in order to complete her Ph.D. thesis.
I had to explain to her that Soviet education in its teaching methodology did not rely on the blind cramming of students, as is done now with the introduction of the Unified State Examination and the Bologna system of universities, but on the development of the methodology of scientific knowledge itself - systematic development of scientific methods of cognition. This is what allows you to gain new knowledge, make scientific discoveries and inventions and manage the society on the part of those in power. That is what turned into a post-Soviet education in Soros in the so-called "secret technology of knowledge" for the "uninitiated" by those in power in bourgeois Russia and the former Soviet Union republics.
For if you understand the methodology, i.e. if you know scientifically sound and scientifically untenable methods of cognition and know how to distinguish and use them in practice, you always have the opportunity to distinguish the correct conclusions as your own guide to action from manipulating different kinds of Machiavellians from politics and science.

[korvin1976]

Quote: Tatiana

But those people who are 35-70 years old have their own analytical and synthesis opinion, adequate to the existing reality!
The graduate student could not explain this in any way in order to complete her Ph.D. thesis.

And did not think why so? And maybe the problem here is not entirely in Soviet or non-Soviet education? For example: My brother is 9 years younger, studied even with Soviet education, partially finished with modern education. So he was about 30 years old, just like he could not Combine information togetherbut time passed, he matured, and began to think and analyze. That is, until a certain point, “young” he belonged to the first category, and “matured” to the second category.

At one time, in the mid-90s, I acted and studied in Baumanka, so in fact there was just about the same system for passing exams as today's exam, TESTS. At what on these tests there was an opportunity to use "manuals". That is, the training system in Bauman was "sloppy"?
Anecdote in the topic:
We decided to conduct an experiment, for how long do applicants from different universities pass the exam in Chinese:
MSU - half a year
MGIMO - 3 months
They approach the smoking students of Baumanka, ask the question: they say, how much will you hand over?
in reply: Are there any methods?
-There is.
Now we’ll finish, let's go take it.
They always said in Baumanka: Our task is to teach you to think, to use technical literature. And all the knowledge that you will memorize, you will forget in a year or two.

I'm not saying that the current generation does not need to be taught anything, but now access to ANY information is more extensive and more accessible than before. If earlier, in order to solve a problem, you had to remember how it can be solved, or go to the library to find its solution. Now it can be done much easier. So how, for example, does using Google and Yandex differ from using a library with technical literature?

Oaks have always been, and then, and now, and later (to my regret), so maybe you should not equal everyone and everything under one comb? Do not be like the first category from the graduate student report?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Tatiana

that people under the age of 35 were not able to independently assess the situation in the country and think fragmentarily with cliches borrowed from the media, etc. They were not able to combine information together.

I come across this almost every week, I earn extra money by developing advertising in a remote location, some regular customers (advertising companies) get into obscenities, people who work for several years do not know what resolution is, how one file format differs from another, modern "specialists" do not study, they work like a conveyor stupidly according to the scheme

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Pollux

kids got smarter

There, Tatyana posted the video above, with smart kids. And about the difficult school program - I have two children studying and my ex-wife works at school. So I know everything by hearsay. Such an impression. that the children’s head is specially overloaded.

[mari.inet]

But Hope is right. One cannot call modern education "degradation." School programs have become very complex, rich. Many students simply do not have time to properly absorb the entire information flow. And exams in the form of tests are no easier than Soviet exams were at one time. Perhaps even more difficult.
The fact that, contrary to all the crap and crap, the Russian guys continue to confidently take prizes at international competitions, shows the strength of our young generation. Russia has a reserve of smart goals.

[KERMET]

See where the winners are from? Almost all lyceum students, I hope there is no need to explain the difference between a lyceum and a regular school? And exams in the form of tests may not be bad, only the school in the last grades practically doesn’t teach, but it simply trains them to complete these tests (the child recently finished school, I know what I'm talking about)

[korvin1976]

Quote: KERMET

See where the winners are from?

So what? Is this some kind of indicator? Do you really think that if you type “oaks” in these lyceums, then medalists will turn out of them later?
Maybe just a little different? Are these talented people going to lyceums, gymnasiums and other institutions to improve their knowledge and develop more deeply?

Quote: KERMET

only the school in the last grades practically doesn’t teach, but simply trains them to solve these tests

Or maybe you shouldn’t blame the school for everything? Maybe in the first place it is worth paying attention to parents? And their attitude to their child? It’s simply easiest to switch to consumer policy: the customer is always right. Sorry, it is you who are primarily involved in the upbringing, education of your child, and the school for you is just a tool in this process.

[gridasov]

One mathematical task of finding a finite Pi number or any irrational number can be the most powerful and generally all computers in the world. It is even easier to formulate the problem of finding combinations of variations of the Rubik's Cube. In the same way, you can plant a person’s brain by giving him unsystematic information according to old methods. Therefore, it is necessary to give a tool that forms algorithmic analytical thinking, which in the present and in the future in more massive arrays of dynamically transformed flows of information will allow you to work with it and use it. None of the inventive projects are imbued with real novelty and opening up an individual progressive look at physical events. Therefore, these champions are crushed by the press of information depriving their brain to work freely and progressively. And the results are appropriate. Of course, against the background of others, it could be better.

[Kuroneko]

Quote: gridasov

One mathematical task of finding a finite number Pi

On your globe, the number Pi - of course? Well, OK.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mari.inet

School programs have become very complex, saturated

what nonsense are you talking about ?!
once again, the first law of thermodynamics cannot become more complicated

Quote: mari.inet

And exams in the form of tests are no easier than Soviet exams were at one time. Perhaps even more difficult.

what nonsense

[militia2]

Almost by accident, I am a little familiar with how to prepare "prizovikov". If you are really concerned about the "complexity" of the program, then you better not risk it with your children. In short, it is no less serious than big sport, and few people think what happened to those who did not take the “prize”, and there are much more of them (these children).

[Hariton laptev]

Well then, once again, I suggest you take any test on the USE from the Internet and solve it and understand whether it is degradation or not. Try to give the correct answer in the problem of physics of chemistry and mathematics without solving it. Do not give. So in order to answer correctly, you still need to have something in your head. Another thing is that now in schools they are trying to divide children into humanities and so-called mathematicians in order to give one discipline or another more in depth and vice versa to give in an introductory format what the student or his parents consider not necessary. But after all, this was not even publicly known but in the Soviet school. In graduation classes, children were already determined what they needed for admission and from tutors they were trained to solve entrance problems and, let's say directly, they scored on unnecessary items. And yet the children’s ignorance of the name of Pushkin was not only the fault of the school but also of the parents and the children themselves. in schools they give the material as it should, the children do not want to learn. Gulki, clubs, booze, licentiousness, this is where society is falling apart. American cinema, the Internet, computer games, selfies, puffed lips are what's scary, that's where the dullness goes. You can argue a lot about the exam, but once again I will say there will be no deep knowledge when you do not pass the test for a high number of points.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Hariton Laptev

there will be no deep knowledge when you do not pass the test for a high number of points.

There is always an option to guess. Under the Soviet system it was not.
On the whole, the problems of youth degradation agree.

[mkop]

And to whom did you take exams in subjects in the Soviet system? To strangers from the street? Or to teachers from YOUR school?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mkop

Or to teachers from YOUR school?

and what do you mean by that ?!
By the way, when they entered a university, they didn’t pass it to their school teachers, but the preparation for the Soviet-style exam is fundamentally different from the USE-ge

[Hariton laptev]

I don’t want to touch this topic at all, since you can get into a wild debate. But the participants in the discussion who graduated from the Soviet school probably almost all heard the phrase "Well, Ivanov and you and I will talk at the exam," and they did, and they spoiled someone's life. About how the fives turned out, the same can often be remembered; the flow of parents with bags didn’t run out and friends who needed the coveted five in the certificate tried to be friends with teachers in all available ways. Alas, the USE sent the feeder and the prejudiced bearing of the teacher into non-being. Let's move on to the university. and again, bias and the money issue come first. Well, the examiner did not like how the applicant was dressed, what cologne he had, how he kept himself, and all the khans, goodbye to the university, hello to the army, and at least seven spans in your forehead, but they will cut you off during the exam with questions that no one regulates. Well, the competition of parental wallets will be generally beyond competition, and then the lazy and mediocre children of wealthy parents will famously send back to the outback or to the army those who really want and can learn, with an inquisitive mind and irrepressible imagination. And his place will be taken by someone whose brain is only enough to fly along the sidewalk on a gelka. You can at least say something in response, but I am a graduate of the Soviet school and I know what I'm writing about. Two children in the USE have entered very prestigious universities and they are very competent and comprehensively developed young people. And my opinion is all those who shout here about what a disgusting thing is the Unified State Examination is simply either populists or secretly dream of receiving quietly bags and envelopes.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Hariton Laptev

the flow of parents with bags did not dry out

never seen

Quote: Hariton Laptev

Alas, the USE sent the feeder and prejudiced from carrying the teacher into non-being

hahaha
are you serious or just swear
https://yandex.ru/search/?text=%D0%B5%D0%B3%D1%8D
%20%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D1%86%D0%
B8%D1%8F&clid=2270455&banerid=0500000000%
3A5b04784958b81400175cd9d2&win=331&lr=22

Corruption in Russian schools with the introduction of the exam has grown 25 times
https://ria.ru/education/20110826/424566241.html
USE has led to rampant corruption
http://balalaika24.ru/society/ege-privel-k-povaln
oy-corruptsii

[mari.inet]

Since my children went through a Russian school in recent years, I can confidently say that guessing in USE tests is useless. Questions and answers are designed in such a way that you won’t play a guessing game.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mari.inet

what to guess in USE tests is useless

for the sake of interest, I took a history test, I can say firmly that if people even know something and can move their brains, then the test will pass although there is frank crap, the test WILL REALLY NOT show the knowledge cutoff

[korvin1976]

I completely agree. I was always a troeshnik at school, in humanitarian studies (Russian, English). For that, I went to the Olympics for the exact sciences. According to literature, starting from the 5th grade, I have not read a single book from the school curriculum, and at the same time I wrote all the essays and expositions at least 4. And the librarians were covered with sticky sweat at my appearance, and they thought where to hide from me. I loved reading, I read choking, but not classics. In the second grade in the evening I read Aelita Tolstoy, and as they say: here Ostap suffered.
Not interested in me, War and Peace, Crime and Punishment. I do not remember the initials of Pushkin, Lermontov, Dostoevsky and so on. So what? Does this speak of my low mind? About my low consciousness or IQ? I read so many books in my entire life that most of my life probably didn’t even see it.
In mathematics, I have never been called to the board to solve examples, because I never knew how to solve them "as required", I just wrote the answer. Moreover, in fact, if you ask me for a formula, I could not name a single one.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Hariton Laptev

Well then, once again I suggest you take any test on the exam from the Internet and solve it and understand whether it is degradation or not

I took - DEGRADATION, there was no question a la 2x2 = at the exam at the Union?

[Hariton laptev]

And what about tasks B and C ???

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

"3", "5.5"

[militia2]

You're right. Only besides knowledge there are still skills and there are skills. These are separate ways of thinking. So the tests are not able to test to test complex skills. If the exam is based on tests, then the teacher will train the child to solve test problems. And all that would be good. Yes, that's just the skills needed for creativity, and with the help of tests they practically do not work out and do not train. And so you are right. Crosswords will be easy to click.
The second one is still no one knows how to ensure the unity of education and upbringing with the help of a test exam. But otherwise you are absolutely right.

[SSR]

Quote: nadezhiva

Well, what a way to fool everything? At all times there were DIFFERENT schools. Both bad and good. And before the Soviet school, and during, and after it.

+ I have a senior 9th grade, prize-winner of the regional Russian language Olympiad computer science, mathematics II came out in physics and chemistry, and she hates humanitarian disciplines, although she puts her on the top five.
To all my arguments that a person should have a broad type of horizons, she answers - I am interested in science and I do not care what date Kuchuk Kaynagir world was signed.
That's something like that, they are not interested in Lenin, they spit on Gorbi and Yeltsin, other interests, a medical tribe, fought at the university on the topic that he does not need a history of medicine

[mkop]

Without narrow specialization nobody will need you today. There is an order of magnitude more knowledge and information in various fields today than 30-40 years ago. Basic remained the same. But those necessary for work and life, have gone far ahead. And if a person spends his time on everything, then he risks not becoming a professional in anything, or becoming one when it is too late.

When I was studying, I also did not understand why I needed a philosophy, for example. I am a design engineer by training. And for many years of work, I can say with confidence - I have NEVER used the knowledge that was given to me on this subject. I have never used the knowledge of HISTORY in relation to what I do at work. But I can say with confidence that, for example, I would like more knowledge about finite-element methods of structural analysis, which the university gave just an idea, but did not learn to use it with real-life examples. But there was a philosophy, a story ...

Yes, you can do 10 pairs a day and teach everything, but there is one problem with this approach. A person in such a situation is overworked, and the risk of not gaining knowledge, but simply listening to a lecturer in such activities, tends to 100%.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: mkop

Without narrow specialization nobody will need you today

For narrow specializations always were and are educational institutions of vocational education. At school, emphasis should not be placed on narrow specialization. Unless of course you need robots in the end. Or as Fursenko said - “We need competent consumers”

[mkop]

If we are talking about the education system as a whole, then there should be a narrow specialization. If we are talking only about the school curriculum, then there should not be a narrow specialization. It's my opinion. But at school in the last classes there should be a bias in one direction (humanities or techies). People who by that time cannot decide what their soul is - for the most part, will receive an education not for the sake of knowledge, but for the sake of a piece of paper. Such "educated" in essence are not needed at all. They will in principle not be interested in their specialty, because they didn’t care whom to study for, if only to get a diploma, and their mother would not swear.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: mkop

It's my opinion

And mine is the same. Glad we understand each other. Unfortunately, we have every school curriculum designed to block a child’s head with a “number”.
Even with the teaching method, there is a complete mess - teachers who teach mathematics in one method, "do not chop" in their subject according to another method. There is no single textbook in many disciplines.

[militia2]

I envy. Not that winners, but that young. Unfortunately, this is quickly passing. And about the causes of the second Punic war, etc., they will still know.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: nadezhiva

? At all times there were DIFFERENT schools. Both good and bad

if in "damned" Soviet times a graduate of ANY school said that Aloizych had the surname Napoleon, the director would fly like plywood

[Siberian]

Very happy for the children who have so excelled! But please answer the question: what schools do you mean before

Quote: nadezhiva

... And before the Soviet schoolboth during and after it.

With regards to the pre-Soviet period (Tsarskoye Selo Lyceum does not count), it was one for all of Russia and was not accessible to everyone.

Quote: nadezhiva

But.... Soviet education along with cramming of full (hurt your achievement) names, never gave the knowledge that children now receive in computer science / mathematics / foreign language.

And for the school curriculum in geometry and algebra, have new theorems and laws been discovered, or what? And for the most part now, not a lot of knowledge is given at school, but a lot, there is no heap of information, and for the most part it is not very necessary. Yes, and about the exam in history I agree, I'm waiting with a shudder ... after reading a history textbook for grade 9 (my daughter asked me to explain a few paragraphs).

[mkop]

And what is knowledge? Knowledge is a lot of information. Do not confuse knowledge (information), and the ability to analyze it is two different things. A person can know a lot, but not be able to use this knowledge, do not understand the logical chains by which something more complicated can be obtained from BASIC knowledge.

[Siberian]

Maybe I have formulated it a little incorrectly ... in addition to the skills and abilities required by the knowledge program, which are determined by the GEF.

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Ingvar 72

The Soviet education system produced generalists of a wide profile, now everything is focused on narrow specialization. I doubt that the mentioned winners of the competitions know who the people I listed were.

I’m sorry, I’m making a fuss about a wide profile and poets. a broad profile is at best average knowledge in several areas (not counting the only ones that are 1 in tens of thousands), which make it possible to work with what is already there, but a narrow profile allows you to discover new things. and about poets and commanders: hbz what kind of schools do you have there, but my children (and even their classmates) in the most ordinary school are aware of these names and surnames.
whether the USSR system was better than the current one is possible. only the amount of data hammered into the head today is much larger (just the data itself has become many times more). I personally do not mind the exam, just in universities, in addition to the exam, you must enter the usual exams (1-2 pieces) in specialized subjects.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

I’m sorry, I’m talking about some game and about a wide profile

you confuse the profession and horizons, by the way, our specialists in the 90s were torn off with their hands precisely for basic knowledge in the border areas of the profession, this gave them additional opportunities

Quote: K0

but a narrow profile and allows you to open a new

NEVER

Quote: K0

only the amount of data hammered into the heads today is much larger

examples that in mathematics and physics are hammered more today? !!!!

[mkop]

You are not right. Now you can’t make discoveries without having a narrow profile. Because knowledge in all areas has long gone from what is called basic. Neither history nor philosophy, for example, in the study of elementary particles will absolutely help you in any way. \

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

examples that in mathematics and physics are hammered more today? !!!!

That is precisely not hammered, but should. Take for example the latest discoveries about elementary particles again. Where is this being told? In which school? At least superficial knowledge should give - but no.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mkop

You are not right. Now you can’t make discoveries without having a narrow profile.

apparently you really do not understand, a huge number of discoveries are being made in the border areas.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

that science has stopped and they are teaching the same thing that we taught - also largely wrong

I correctly understood that the Pi number in the light of recent scientific "achievements" is not 3.14, but 5,12, and now the acceleration of free fall on the earth is now not 9,8 m \ s2, but 15,24 m \ kg ????
or maybe now parallel lines in Euclidean geometry intersect, and even twice? !!!!
announce the list of changes in elementary physics
even if this happened and all the “changes” that I described above happened, then the volume of the studied will not change; instead of 9,8, you will have to take a different value for the constant and not two at the same time

[mkop]

I just understand. But you are not. In most of the work in the modern world, more than one person takes part.

And here you are stubbornly moving the idea that in the modern world basic knowledge in the modern world does not change. Yes it is, but also the fact is that in elementary knowledge, scientific discoveries were not so long ago that one cannot even remember. All these Pi numbers and gravitational accelerations do not change, but they were discovered hundreds of years ago. Today, in addition to knowing the number of Pi and accelerating free fall, modern knowledge is also needed to make discoveries. But on modern knowledge, on modern technology in our schools often simply do not have time.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mkop

You are stubbornly moving the idea that in the modern world basic knowledge does not change in the modern world

let's not stupid
first, about the basics, parallel curves in Euclidean geometry intersect, yes, no?
the first law of thermodynamics has changed, yes, no?
second, an increase in knowledge in the event of changes in the basic laws, will both options be studied, old and new, or one ?!

Quote: mkop

Today, in addition to knowing the number of Pi and accelerating free fall, to make discoveries, we also need modern knowledge

Lord, are you a victim of the exam ?!
what do you mean by modern knowledge, the ability to use a computer ?!
so most modern youth, except for placing a photo on a social page, can not do a damn thing and they can’t distinguish a video card about

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

examples that in mathematics and physics are hammered more today? !!!

your children do not seem to be studying for a long time, so you will be surprised, but yes, more, the number of lessons / hours has become more. the same computer science differs from the times of the USSR as the 17th century from the 20th. if you think that science has stopped and they are teaching the same thing that we have been teaching, it is also largely untrue: they are teaching both ours and additional.
there may be a claim to the quality of how one is taught (a teacher is a prestigious profession today), but not to the extent.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

you confuse the profession and horizons, by the way, our specialists in the 90s were torn off with their hands precisely for basic knowledge in the border areas of the profession, this gave them additional opportunities

Sorry, but the discoveries are made by specialists of a wide profile (for all trades of the master) or Ph.D. and professors? I think the latter. and it seems to me that you are confusing your horizons with a professional and in-depth study of the subject.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

number of lessons / hours more

how many lessons a day, clearly and specifically

Quote: K0

the same computer science differs from the times of the USSR as the 17th century from the 20th

apparently you don’t know how to read, read what I wrote

Quote: K0

Sorry, but the discoveries are made by specialists of a wide profile (for all trades of the master)

Lord, before on the same physical faculty there was a distribution in departments of three courses of 6 semesters, physics was studied on all topics, optics, molecule, nuclear, etc., each semester, that is, a nuclear physicist has enough knowledge of molecular physics or optics

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Lord, before on the same physical faculty there was a distribution in departments of three courses of 6 semesters, physics was studied on all topics, optics, molecule, nuclear, etc., each semester, that is, a nuclear physicist has enough knowledge of molecular physics or optics

iii? then that person selects a profile, i.e. it concretizes what he studies, and does not continue until 4 years to study all disciplines equally.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

how many lessons a day, clearly and specifically

Grade 7 6-7 lessons (different days in different numbers), 6 days a week. For example, I had a five-day period with 6-7 lessons.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

iii? then that person selects a profile, i.e. it concretizes what he studies, and does not continue until 4 years to study all disciplines equally.

the difference is that today they want to immediately receive specialization
tell me how old are you

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

tell me how old are you

35, and you?

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

the difference is that today they want to immediately receive specialization

this is your subjective feeling. do not confirm it.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

35, and you?

45

Quote: K0

do not confirm it.

why do you think so?

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

why do you think so?

Well, how do you confirm this "immediately"?

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

experience and communication with "specialists"

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

For example, I had a five-day period with 6-7 lessons.

but I, like all Soviet children, studied 6 days a week, in grade 9-10 I had 7 lessons as a standard

By the way, for the sake of interest, compare the number of hours per week in subjects then and now, and you will see that an increase by happened, and in some cases quite the opposite

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

but I, like all Soviet children, studied 6 days a week, in grade 9-10 I had 7 lessons as a standard

when do you speak "all Soviet children", you mean only your school, as I understand it. because my parents studied 5 days a week until grade 9, my older brothers / sisters too.
by hour: USSR (source http://www.libussr.ru/doc_ussr/usr_7387.htm)
8. The following maximum number of compulsory school hours per week is established in a secondary school: for grades 1–4, 24 hours, for 5 to 8 classes - 30 hours and for grades 9-10 (11) - 32 hours. In national schools of the RSFSR and in schools of other union republics with a ten-year term of study, it is allowed to increase the teaching load against the above norms up to two to three hours per week in each class <*>.
RF (source https://rg.ru/2011/03/16/sanpin-dok.html) Table 3 (https://cdnimg.rg.ru/pril/46/50/41/5430_21.gif) 35 hours at 6 days a week, 32 at 5 days.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

when you say "all Soviet children", you mean only your school, as I understand it. because my parents studied 5 days a week until grade 9

During the period of the existence of the USSR, six-day schooling was compulsory, and there were no particular complaints from the students and their parents. True, in the early 70s, an educational experiment was conducted in the Baltic city of Pärnu, during which students of local schools were transferred to a five-day period - it was believed that this would give a positive result, the children would spend two days in the family, communicate more with their parents. However, observing the schoolchildren, sociologists found that on weekends most of them were trite “beaten”, and the experiment ingloriously ended. Naturally, then no decision was made on the transition of schools to a five-day week. Http://gikursk.ru/paper/3600/6414/

Quote: K0

for 1 to 4 classes - 24 hours

and what do you mean by that?

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

and what do you mean by that?

it's just a quote so that the meaning is not lost.
nevertheless, modern schoolchildren are forced to receive a greater amount of knowledge, because knowledge itself has become objectively more.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

because knowledge itself has become objectively more.

can you say what has become more? !!!
physics, mathematics, or maybe chemistry? !!!
what exactly
what I found so sorry number of hours for example in elementary school reduced

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

it's just a quote so that the meaning is not lost.

so and the point in your quotes is 0.00000
you are equal to your training in the 90s, and I am a normal pi of the USSR

[Bar1]

our education system prepares excellent cadres for the American economy. The talented Russians go to the USA, where there are just Russian schools in flint valley and the Russian language is the 2nd official language. The Russians win prizes for olympiads for pin_ dos. That's our country, we don’t have talents And in the so-called Skolkovo, even pedals on ballot boxes do not work.


watch 3h.30min

[nadezhiva]

At the time, the Americans chose the right “cream picking” tactics around the world. Sometimes I get a strong feeling that some teachers pay extra for this. The international baccalaureate program allows you to do everything legally. I am judging by the school (fiz-mat) where my two are studying. They specifically crush children that they need to go to international schools, to study, to participate in olympiads (including international ones), to receive grants and to go to foreign universities. Brainwashing for children goes on a regular basis. But .... recently the system crashes. Moreover, specific. Children begin to focus on Russian universities, incl. sighting at universities with a military department. Neither children nor their parents are idiots. And the Russian propaganda that has appeared (like a Phoenix bird, there is no other comparison) is gradually beginning to bear fruit. Let's see what will happen next.

[Mestny]

Well, that is, as usual - everything happens in spite of the bloody regime. He is trying, trying, and the children suddenly themselves correctly orient themselves despite.
Everything that flies and runs, all the factories built is all of course contrary to the authorities, which, as you know, only eats sweets, plays iPhone, and rolls them abroad.

[SSR]

Quote: nadezhiva

But .... recently the system crashes. Moreover, specific. Children begin to focus on Russian universities, incl. sighting at universities with a military department. Neither children nor their parents are idiots. And the Russian propaganda that has appeared (like a Phoenix bird, there is no other comparison) is gradually beginning to bear fruit. Let's see what will happen next.

Mine is aimed at the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology and by the way at the University of Dubna, since September, excellent students of engineering faculties have been awarded a scholarship of 30000 rubles. Really the ice has broken.

[reservist]

you can probably say that moved
30 thousand scholarship only for those who then are not going to drive for the "long dollar", i.e. with the subsequent development of how many years in the territory of the Russian Federation

[militia2]

How well you wrote! Even if this is not true, still good! Yes, I saw Mr. Fursenko (this is the one that called for educating consumers) in the Concert Hall a year ago on Gergiev. Kudrin, too, Golikova ... They say that Gusinsky (the former owner of NTV) forbade his children to watch TV. Such a strange life. We'll see...

[Mestny]

Oh, "Crap-TV" is certainly an excellent argument.
Was he in Skolkovo? The pedals do not work ...

[Bar1]

Quote: Mestny

Oh, "Crap-TV" is certainly an excellent argument.
Was he in Skolkovo? The pedals do not work ...

watched a movie?

[73bor]

The winners are given real money, consider it already bought, money is corrupted especially by fragile children's souls - all this grant-eating is frank shit!

[asv96]

Damn guys parents, and you do not participate in the education of a child at all, tell me to refute. I am having a conversation. With his son on various topics, both historical and technical and political, although he is 11 years old, he still gets the most important faith in the right thing when communicating with his parents. Yes, there is no limit to indignation, but do not hang on other strangers for you people, your blood. Remember how you raise your child, and meet your old age.

[73bor]

You know, I’m talking with my average one, we go to the bathhouse together, but doing it is like wandering around a minefield, I started to teach everything a bit, I got my dad!

[militia2]

It’s hard for you! And what is it to him! If someone knew the secret of education, then for a long time everything would have been wrong! I tried not to the bathhouse, but to do something together. Well, sometimes it turns out, sometimes not. Reread about Tom Sawyer, how he painted the fence, there is an interesting pedagogy.

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But the bulk of students are still victims of the exam. To doubters - talk with schoolchildren of 7-9 classes, and ask questions about Kutuzov, Suvorov, Nekrasov, Tyutchev. They have no idea who it is. Ask a question, what were the names of Pushkin, Lermontov. It is unlikely that they will tell you. The Soviet education system produced generalists of a wide profile, now everything is focused on narrow specialization. I doubt that the mentioned winners of the competitions know who the people I listed were.

Well, the cooling of the exam has become reflexive. I remember that it was in the 90s when it was put into operation. And the fact that my children have passed in recent years. It is heaven and earth. This is no longer a "guessing game." For a change, try to take and solve the exam on the issues of recent years. I don’t know how anyone, but under the USSR it was easier for me to pass exams. And yet - you don’t have to blame everything on school, no one took off the responsibilities for raising and educating the child from the parents.

[rocket757]

Raise a child, the personality should be the family and parents .... the school provides knowledge.
hi Aleksey
School, as a process of primary knowledge of science, must be ordered from and to! Those. school, further or special secondary education or higher!
For special children, super talented there may be special options, but in the total mass everything should be clear, i.e. during the transition from one stage to another, there is no need to relearn or retrain!
Those. frivolous experimenters should be sent far and forever, we, parents, need normally trained descendants who have received normal, necessary and extensive KNOWLEDGE, and not all the crap from crazy reformers!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alex-a832

For a change, try to take and solve the exam on the issues of recent years. I don’t know how anyone, but under the USSR it was easier for me to pass exams.

Are you serious now ?!
for the sake of interest I opened and looked

[Alex-a832]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

Are you serious now ?!
for the sake of interest I opened and looked

For information: what is in the Union, what is now, in any math exam tasks of several difficulty levels are included. You have chosen the smallest. By the way, I don’t know how and where you were taught, but we (even under the Union) were taught that when addressing a person personally, you should write "You" with a capital letter. To date, this tradition is preserved in Russian

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Alex-a832

For information: what is in the Union, what is now, in any math exam tasks of several difficulty levels are included.

yeah ?!
they were surprised when it never happened in the Union, there were exams for schools with in-depth study of the subject and for general ones, but inside they just covered different topics, if an oral exam, then the task and two theoretical questions of the same complexity but different in topic, written mathematics (algebra) just as easily gave coverage - polynomial, inequality, function, etc., but not 2x2 = x

[mkop]

There, besides the first question, there are others (this is so ... in secret). And another secret: the first tasks are the easiest, then they will be more difficult.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mkop

the first tasks are the easiest, then they will be more difficult.

but I don’t need further, if a school graduate needs to ask how much 2x2 will be, then forgive me it’s not the level of knowledge of the student, but the level of school

[Bulrumeb]

the bulk of the students are still victims of the exam. To doubters, talk with students in grades 7–9, and ask questions about Kutuzov, Suvorov, Nekrasov, and Tyutchev.

wow what difficult questions are you asking, a witness himself that ninth-graders and Lenin, who is closer in time, do not know

[Vend]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But the bulk of students are still victims of the exam. To doubters - talk with schoolchildren of 7-9 classes, and ask questions about Kutuzov, Suvorov, Nekrasov, Tyutchev. They have no idea who it is. Ask a question, what were the names of Pushkin, Lermontov. It is unlikely that they will tell you. The Soviet education system produced generalists of a wide profile, now everything is focused on narrow specialization. I doubt that the mentioned winners of the competitions know who the people I listed were.

There are problems with education, but judging by the data, it is still the best. What seriously bothers liberals and Western dermocrats.

[Yrec]

The article is a stub. Let them write where these winners will fall after school. I think the states have already made an offer to them. It is for this that such finals of competitions are held abroad, for the suction of brains already from school.

[region58]

Quote: Yrec

Let them write where these winners will fall after school.

Premium BMWs and apartments are still jammed. And it is just possible for them.

[Imobile]

Education has become better. The exam would be good in my Soviet era, when absolutely stupid kids from the regional committee and teachers received medals. If you want to ask, ask who studied in the USSR even at a level above grade 5 no one will answer. Just don’t say that it was forgotten over time, they didn’t know right after graduation.

[rocket757]

Yes, yes, those who Soviet schoolchildren knew nothing !!!
Whoever didn’t study, they don’t know anything even then ... just then it wasn’t comme il faut, but now it’s creative! Why would a merchandiser know where Africa is or where penguins live? In the zoo, that’s the whole answer now, those who are ignorant, even then, though they’ll answer now.
Recall D.I. Fonvizin and his play "Undergrowth" so, it may turn out to be a bust of those who do not learn anything .... although there is a feeling that people don’t want to learn that.
A thinking person, not the most convenient, for the power of "fat belts", contingent!

[Imobile]

I agree that there are children who do not want to study. I remember all the libraries I crawled out, I didn’t find anything in physics and radio, only Pushkin. Then I would have the Internet! By the way, the younger generation does not vote for a totalitarian regime. So education is still better?

[rocket757]

And Father gave me in 1972 the "Handbook of the radio engineer" ed. London 1970 The book is fundamental and very rare at that time ... my handbook for many years! I keep it as a memory!
The younger generation votes differently, hormones are seething, I want a lot and at once ... it's normal, understanding, experience, they will get it later, different! This is life, I do not see anything unusual in this.
From a previous story, I determined this for myself - You can’t put everyone on the same line without a choice ... they will be left and right, it’s still incompatible to fall apart, but there will already be complaints against the builder with problems between them!

[militia2]

Well, that you too generalize. Yes it was! But it was both!

[Vol4ara]

Quote: Ingvar 72

But the bulk of students are still victims of the exam. To doubters - talk with schoolchildren of 7-9 classes, and ask questions about Kutuzov, Suvorov, Nekrasov, Tyutchev. They have no idea who it is. Ask a question, what were the names of Pushkin, Lermontov. It is unlikely that they will tell you. The Soviet education system produced generalists of a wide profile, now everything is focused on narrow specialization. I doubt that the mentioned winners of the competitions know who the people I listed were.

Why when it comes to checking school knowledge, everyone rushes into the literature. I hated literature at school, trembling in my hands, so the teacher managed to present the subject that 70% of the time went into cramming biographies, and I myself would not answer in grade 9 who is Tyutchev, all that you memorized yesterday, you forgot today. But in chemistry, I did not have a grade below 5, either at school or at a university. It is interesting that the person who conducts a survey on the street such as "Who is Fet" or "Patronymic of the Block" will answer you when you ask him a counter question about the tricarboxylic acid cycle or catalytic reforming, for example

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Vol4ara

all rush into the literature.

Let's rush into history, geography? The results will be the same.

[rocket757]

If possible, if it turns out then you can vote for harmony in everything.
A general harmonious development can be a lot about everything, at least in general terms, it will not be superfluous to have a lot of ideas.
Only if nothing happened about anything !!!

[Imobile]

You got excited with geography, now a third of students know geography better than a teacher, and not from a textbook

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: Imobile

now a third of students know geography better than a teacher, and not from a textbook

you confuse the knowledge of Paris boutiques with science - GEOGRAPHY
but whether the current "travelers" know what the lithosphere is and where the zero meridian passes, I’m not sure

[Imobile]

Yet you are in vain, I envy white envy. By myself, I know that after experiments, the material lays down much easier and is fixed

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

then to Paris on foot on the map

[militia2]

It was a teacher, not Tyutchev! Now do you even agree?

[g1v2]

But they are well aware of system programming and robotics. And they win medals in these disciplines. Already here that Soviet education is clearly not to do with. In Soviet times, these were not children at school. And what was the name of Nekrasov or Tyutchev - they will look on their phone if they need it.
But about the fact that the path of narrow specialization is wrong - I agree. This is not a disruption, but it limits the employment and development opportunities for modern adolescents.

[rocket757]

I all IT wisdom begins with simple mathematics! Her that also did not pass in the Soviet School?
You yourself understand, have thought about what you are writing? Doubts however.

[g1v2]

I studied at a Soviet school in the 80s. I remember well what I was taught. and why not. And I studied at two good schools in St. Petersburg. And my relatives studied in other cities. Right now, when they begin to carry nonsense about the fact that the successes of today's schoolchildren, especially in such disciplines are the remnants of the Soviet school, it breaks me into rzhach. Programming in a Soviet school in the 80s was not even in its infancy. But rather in the negative. Learning foreign languages ​​was at least somehow acceptable only in special schools. Well, I’m silent about robotics.
Well, the most important thing. THE SOVIET SCHOOL, AS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE SOVIET SOCIETY, KILLED TOGETHER WITH THE COUNTRY, AND AT MY EYES. And from her in a modern school already in the mid-90s there was nothing left. Absolutely. Just when I hear howls that evil people are destroying the Soviet school, again I start to laugh. These people are 25 years late. Nothing remained of her long ago. And neither parents, nor students, nor teachers of the 80s considered our education as right as they think now. Everyone was dissatisfied with their education in the 80s. Even in very decent schools. We understand this now. that Soviet school education was quite decent, though not outstanding. And then he was perceived differently.
In general, in any case, there is no return to it and will not be. It is necessary to build a new one. What will it be and should be? This is already a question and a subject for discussion. Without howls and tantrums.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: g1v2

Programming in a Soviet school in the 80s was not even in its infancy

there will be no base in mathematics, there will be no programming, by the way, specify who wrote most of the famous prog programs and it turns out that this is all SOVIET SCHOOL

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: g1v2

It is necessary to build a new

Exactly. Taking into account the achievements and mistakes of the past, but not taking into account the words of the Minister of Education of the Russian Federation Fursenko (at the time of utterance) - "We need a competent consumer."

[militia2]

Everything is dead! All! But if "without howls and tantrums," then, as it turned out, not all! And there are examples that are not all. Therefore, do not despair!

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Militia2

Therefore, do not despair!

The continuation of the regressive educational policy by the government is not encouraging and hopeful.

[militia2]

There are words attributed to the head of the CIA, Dulles: “The war will end, everything will somehow settle down and settle down. And we will throw everything that we have, all the gold, all the material power into fooling and fooling people. The human brain, people's minds are capable of change. Sowing there is chaos, we will replace their values ​​with false ones and make them believe these false values. How? We will find like-minded people, our allies in Russia itself. Episode after episode will develop a grandiose scale tragedy of the death of the most rebellious people, the final, irreversible extinction of his self-consciousness.For example, from literature and art we will gradually erase their social essence, wean artists, discourage them from engaging in images ... to study the processes that occur in the depths of the masses Literature, theater, cinema - everything will depict and to glorify the most base human feelings.We will in every way support and glorify the so-called artists who those who will plant and hammer into the human mind a cult of sex, violence, sadism, betrayal - in a word, all immorality. In government, we will create chaos and confusion. We will quietly, but actively and constantly contribute to the tyranny of officials, bribe takers, and unscrupulousness. Bureaucracy and red tape will be elevated to virtue. Honesty and decency will be ridiculed. Rudeness and arrogance, lies and deceit, drunkenness and drug addiction, animal fear of each other and shamelessness, betrayal, nationalism, hostility of peoples and hatred of the Russian people - all this will blossom in a double color. And only a few, very few will guess or even understand what is happening. But we will put such people in a helpless position, turn them into a laughing stock, find a way to slander them and declare them to be the scum of society. We will dig up spiritual roots, vulgarize and destroy the foundations of spiritual morality. We will fight for people from childhood, from youth, the main focus will be on youth. We will begin to corrupt, corrupt, and corrupt it. We will make cynics, vulgarities, cosmopolitans of them. "
And you all try not to despair early!

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: g1v2

Already here that Soviet education is clearly not to do with.

to write a program, basic knowledge is needed, by the way the famous tetris was written during the Union and in the Union

[rocket757]

One gets the impression that this was a “student” not at all with a plus sign and certainly not from the medal list.
Yazh said that consider everything went to study, only received knowledge / did not reach everyone.
If such 2 + 2 have something like 7-8, then it’s necessary to argue that the Soviet school and Soviet TEACHERS, TEACHERS, have far survived the state that raised them, learned!
Like many other prominent personalities!
Now everything and everything is being replaced, it just happens in time, the fate, the history of our state, the MOTHERLANDS will depend on who will continue to teach our rising generation.
Well, to such a “student” to explain something, wasting time .... instead of gray matter some people already managed to get porridge. It happens.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: rocket757

One gets the impression that this was a “student” not at all with a plus sign and certainly not from the medal list

what are you talking about?

[rocket757]

Yes, the answer g1v2 (Vitaliy) Today, 13:15
His Soviet school died already in the 90s. Who taught then, who taught those who later taught? What a mystery.
Doubts, and where ,. how and from whom did he learn?

[g1v2]

I didn’t stretch the medal correctly, although there were chances. In the class I was one of the best in both technical and humanitarian disciplines. But at that time everything around was already collapsing and the medal seemed to be useless to anyone. For admission to the university I did not need it. Maybe it would be worth confusing the medal, although so that it would change when university teachers collected bottles at that time? For successful admission to most universities, an envelope with money was needed then, and not a medal. But in any case, I did it myself, where I wanted and became an engineer. I'm not complaining about life.
Of course, maybe in vain I am trying to explain something to you - apart from complacency, nothing is visible in your comments. But try all the same. Maybe you will understand something.
When I first went to the Soviet school in the 80s, I was somehow taken out of my brain for half an hour for a forgotten pioneer tie at a meeting. And after a couple of years it was fashionable to use this tie instead of a handkerchief. Teacher obscene right at the lesson was the children from the far from the worst St. Petersburg school - one of my favorite entertainment. Some of my classmates in the late 80s and early 90s were engaged in catching drunk after school, beat them and robbed. The plan was sold in all stalls near the school. So that children do not run far. The level of teaching fell over the years before our eyes. This was noticeable to everyone and not only in my school. Less capable teachers quit and went into business or other more monetary jobs. QUALITY OF TEXTBOOKS DROPED AT TIMES. THE TEXTBOOKS THAT NOW IS ALREADY THAT SOMETHING DECENT. I'm not talking about the fact that corruption has suddenly become everywhere. School tore money, teachers took money. Admission to universities was also for money. Scandals with bribes on receipts went to schools. I repeat - it was all before my eyes. My younger brother studied already in the 90s and I saw it all perfectly. Now none of this is already there and thank God. I know what I'm saying. Soviet school education perished with the country. And in the 90s almost nothing remained of him. Neither educational function, nor educational. What is being called to save - xs. The school of the 90s was already radically different from the school of the 80s.
And also, to make it clear. The first exam was introduced to raise education to its level. To remove corruption at least from schools and admissions offices. And in order to somehow structure the chaos that the school has turned into. And gradually the complexity of the exam increases, because students are becoming smarter. And this is also noticeable.
Well, one more thing. How many I have not encountered, concluded. Most of all young people are scolded by those who, in terms of knowledge, are nothing of themselves. It seems to them. what if they know the name and patronymic of Tyutchev or who is Krupskaya. then they are smarter than young ones. This is, to say the least, not so. I say goodbye to the sim. Hopefully explained the position deployed.

[rocket757]

They explained, justified, said goodbye ... like everything said and is not interesting further.
Yes, they also gave out their truth, and the other probably cannot be .... well, live in peace and with your truth, do not stumble on someone else's.

[jovanni]

Well done boys! Well done teacher! And what about officials, can they provide our talents with the opportunity to develop their talent in the homeland? Or they will shake hands and forget ... The officials are not good fellows ...

[mari.inet]

Officials are also doing their best. But is it easy for the current Russian official to work if dozens and hundreds of good, useful, important things go unnoticed by society. But any mistake, any little thing is an occasion for mass reproaches, nit-picking, accusations, and even dismissal.
Sharpening balances about bureaucratic shortcomings - a lot of the mind is not necessary. And to delve into all the features, all the complexities of bureaucratic work - a lack of time.
Personally, I respect the work of officials. And I have never had any conflicts with these authorities. With them - in a good way, and they are with you - with respect.

[jovanni]

Respectfully your opinion. Apparently you are a lucky person. It is completely far from the idea that your expression "... With them, in a good way ..." means to materially interest the official ...

[mari.inet]

I didn’t think that the phrase about my completely natural communication with officials would look so ambiguous. Yes, you are right: I did not give bribes and I do not give. Just always calm, avoid demanding or asking intonations. I understand when they explain the essence of the problem to me. Not a scandal, I don't raise my voice. I do not demand, but I try to explain my point of view logically and clearly ..

[Uncle lee]

The Russian team showed a remarkable result, taking 9 prizes

Did not kill the exam of the ability of children to think creatively! This is contrary to the educational programs of the Ministry of Education! Bravo, boys!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote from Uncle Lee

This is contrary to the educational programs of the Ministry of Education!

like Volodya, you were ahead of me ... it’s more likely the merit of the parents who work with their children.

[BecmepH]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Quote from Uncle Lee

This is contrary to the educational programs of the Ministry of Education!

like Volodya, you were ahead of me ... it’s more likely the merit of the parents who work with their children.

Similarly, Andrei Yurich, you are ahead of me. Parents gave impetus to the ability to think to their children.

[Uncle lee]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

merit of parents

Andrei And most importantly, the kids have not forgotten how to think creatively! Remember what kind of things we protruded in childhood!

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Uncle Lee

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

merit of parents

Andrei And most importantly, the kids have not forgotten how to think creatively! Remember what kind of things we protruded in childhood!

male accidentally surviving boys ...

[DEDPIHTO]

I think here the merit of old teachers with a Soviet education. Years will pass, the old teachers will all go to another world, and then we'll see ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

.

Quote: DEPHIHTO

I think here the merit of old teachers with a Soviet education. Years will pass, the old teachers will all go to another world, and then we'll see ...

"System software" and "Robotics" ... old teachers are strong in this ... yes ...

[Nasrat]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

.
"System software" and "Robotics" ... old teachers are strong in this ... yes ...

The old people are grumbling ... do not pay attention ...
Now education is very strong - for those who want to study ...

[Bully]

Quote: Nasr

Now education is very strong - for those who want to study ...

Ask university professors how strong it is. Just a disaster. Graduates of schools almost completely lack analytical and systemic thinking - exactly what education in the Soviet high school was famous for. In simple terms, the school prepares users, not inventors.

[Nasrat]

Another grumbling .. 30 years have already passed since the Great Crash ....- what analytical and systemic thinking did not help preserve the USSR? After all, then all graduated from schools with Soviet education - all were smart, but sold for chewing gum! Where was analytical and systemic thinking with 100% educated people?

Strong education in the USSR was in the 60-70s ... on this and crawled to collapse ... by the mid-80s, all profuca ...

[Bully]

To see the picture with secondary education, for starters you just need to be in the subject. Questions that for us, students of the mid-80s were elementary, current students are perplexed. I have a wide circle of familiar teachers from technical and humanitarian universities. Everyone says the same thing - poor school preparation. If we consider all this in the aspect of training for the military-industrial complex, it is obvious that a person who does not know how to think creatively and does not have serious basic knowledge is hardly capable of generating breakthrough ideas. And without them, you understand, you won’t last long with such “partners”.

[Bully]

Quote: Nasr

Strong education in the USSR was in the 60-70s ... on this and crawled to collapse ... by the mid-80s, all profuca ...

The collapse of the Roman and Byzantine empires also explain the presence of poor education?

[Nasrat]

no, there weren’t so many analysts and systemic thinkers!

[militia2]

And what were some other reasons? Education, the creation of a child’s worldview, his awareness of his personality, his "I" is inseparable from what is now called "education". When such an experience was passed on to subsequent generations, its changes occurred, which accumulated and eventually led to the collapse of society and the state. You yourself were a witness to such a collapse (USSR).

[Bulrumeb]

then we'll see ...

but you can already look, everything is already happening. The wife replaces the sick teacher and conducts tests for admission to exams. After the first 70% of twos, after the same but already repeated - 30%. To the question of what you children did for a whole year, they answer and the teacher gave us tasks for independent study. like that. And the case is not even an isolated one.

[Nasrat]

Who did not want to study, and in the USSR they dragged from the class to the class "behind the ears" .. and this is not an isolated case!

[Bulrumeb]

there was such a thing, only the proportions turned upside down, before there were an overwhelming minority, but now the majority are on the contrary.

[militia2]

But your wife, too, is not an "isolated case"? So hope, although weak, still remains?

[Bulrumeb]

in addition to her, there is also a director who can’t spoil indicators.

[Maalkavianin]

Well done. A great example of the fact that it is not in the exam, but just need to want to learn, and not whip beer.

[Shrpv]

Not thanks to the exam, but in spite of.

[Bulrumeb]

So, after all, prize-winners are mainly students of completely non-ordinary schools. but in general, in education, a full ass

[bald]

Nuggets in Russia have been and will be - congratulations! But the joy, through resentment!, About the exam - outweigh !!! And what, it’s weak to prepare, well, at least adjust, the old way over the summer? Or just think thinking and chatting.

[Shrpv]

It is necessary not to hammer knowledge in school into the head. And learn to use it. Interest in knowledge, knowledge acquisition technologies, general culture. For example, I studied alone, heat engineering, but I work in another field, construction, deputy. ch. an engineer. What was taught at the institute is almost not connected with what I am doing now, but I can learn and I like it.

[militia2]

"I can learn and I like it." Most likely, this is one of the main abilities of a person that a school should teach, should not dull it.

[Mountain shooter]

Creativity in training and the gene pool were not lost. And it pleases.
And the school in the USSR also had the whole spectrum of achievements and failures. And they fought, and smoked, and in vocational schools after 8th grade ...
And not everyone remembered Tyutchev and Suvorov ...

[Vard]

How far our schoolchildren are from real life ... The first place was taken by a robot for washing windows ... and you named after Pushkin ... Our education ... and the worldview always suffered from excessive academicism ... In the late eighties I worked as a master school ... then all the kids knew who Pushkin was ... but they had to learn to wash the floors and windows ...

[militia2]

It is possible this way: first, Pushkin, and then the floors, and it is possible this way: first the floors, and then Pushkin. Who would know what is right?

[Masya masya]

So not everything is still lost in our house! Congratulations to the guys! happy for them

[gabonskijfront]

I had three, two seniors, when they studied, it seemed to me how stupid they are and all their friends are stupid, they don’t know the elementary and don’t want to know. And the teachers are hucksters and extortionists. So the younger one went to school and I saw a book in her hands I read Tom Sawyer in the second grade, I asked where I got it, she speaks in the library. Maybe the truth of what changes at school.

[Vard]

Well done daughter ... I read this book in the fifth ...

[tolyasik0577]

Maybe the truth of what is changing at school.

Nothing changes at school. My son, thank God, in the 3rd grade of the whole "Wizard of the Emerald City" Volkov read. And his peers are listening to rap in the gateway and, at best, read- "Grandfather Mazay and the Hares." School starts at home and a lot depends on the nature of the child. They are trying to introduce a juvenile policy, but in my example I can say that this is complete nonsense and a dulling of society. If it weren’t for my father’s harsh attitude towards me, I would be a driver now, not an engineer.

[Loess]

Funny. As in the comments, someone will express doubts about the pro-Russian orientation of the site, so the next day there will be normal news, and even an article in analytics.

[Volodin]

Quote: Less

Funny. As in the comments, someone will express doubts about the pro-Russian orientation of the site, so the next day there will be normal news, and even an article in analytics.

Even more fun, when by pro-Russian views, some ladies and gentlemen understand only the chants addressed to the government, the central bank and adherents of raising the retirement age. As soon as the material comes out, even with constructive criticism, there are those that see this as an order of the State Department, MI5 or the world Masonic conspiracy ...

[Loess]

Quote: Volodin

As soon as the material comes out even with constructive criticism, there are those that the State Department, MI5 or the world Masonic conspiracy sees in this order ...

The problem is that there is not much constructive criticism here either.

[Vard]

It’s not all the same to beat on the head ... an affectionate word and a cat is pleased ...

[mari.inet]

Alexei, in my opinion, the "pro-Russian views" has two sides.
First one. More criticism of the government, central bank, authorities and officials. More nitpicking to their work, to their words and sentences. A lot of harsh and even offensive words about their activities. And as a result, the Russian government and Russia as a whole get a bucket of slop on their own head that flows around, maraging everything and everyone around. Well, followed by a feeling of humiliation, inferiority (in which vile country I live), lack of self-esteem (managed to be born in Russia in this underdeveloped country), low self-esteem, and other "charms".
Second side. Learn to see positive developments in the development of Russia. To be able to properly evaluate information without detracting from the positive that exists. Deliberately choose pride for your country instead of despondency (and there have been a lot of reasons for pride lately). To do a single thing together with the authorities, with officials: fight for the positive face of Russia. And as a result, optimism appears, the level of self-esteem increases, life begins to play in bright colors, people become kinder and more united.
Judging by your words, you choose the first side, preferring harsh criticism of everything and everyone.
Others choose the second side, supporting their state, supporting power.
Who acts more correctly and rationally - time will tell. It will put everything in its place.

[Volodin]

Quote: mari.inet

Judging by your words, you choose the first side, preferring harsh criticism of everything and everyone.

These are the times ... In this case, do not be lazy to give examples of where and when you saw from me the "criticism of everything and everyone."

Well, the truth is very interesting))

PS If you are not a "diagonal" reader of the Military Review site, you will easily see that a wide variety of materials are published here, including those that, as you put it, do not detract from the positive. As an example - this news. If you yourself see only those where "criticism and flow", then I can’t contradict your view from purely civilian considerations.

[Tomato]

Glad for Russian schoolchildren. So not everything is as bad as groaning "all the way .... polymers."
It is customary to praise the Soviet system of education. It’s just interesting, but where did these hordes of shaved degenerates in sweat pants come from in the early 90s - hey, you, you pay kama?
Americans abandoned, these are not graduates of Soviet schools.
Crowds of stokers and janitors with a higher education spawned - a subject for pride.

[militia2]

The question is interesting. Where did they come from? And where did all these Gorbachevs, Yeltsins, Chubais come from, is it not from the Soviet school? Of her darling. Apparently the school, no matter how it wants, but is forced to be part of the society in which it exists and works out the requests of this society for its reproduction. More precisely, the requests of the state in which it exists. More precisely, requests from state authorities. Well, if you start from this end, then, in my opinion, it is clear how all this evil spirited.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

everything is wonderful, but ...
how many percent of the total number of students ?!

[free]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

everything is wonderful, but ...
how many percent of the total number of students ?!

Exactly!

[gridasov]

Modern methods of education must meet the criteria of modern circumstances and requirements. This means that it is necessary not only to give a complex of knowledge forming the ability to system perception, but also to give methods of working with large volumes of information. What is the use of brains being clogged with jagged information. Now there is a lot of information and access to it is open. Therefore, you need to learn to work not just with information, but with its flows and arrays. In general, the problems are identical to what the NSA employees faced, that there is a lot of information, and there is no one to work with. There is no system knowledge in the analysis of large volumes of information and the ability to crystallize the necessary from these volumes.

[Moskovit]

My mother-in-law is a teacher, my wife is a teacher (though I left school), my daughter learned to be a teacher, now she is passing her diploma and will go to work in the fall. There is, of course, a madhouse with reports and different resolutions, but the main problem is .... parents. They do not want to engage in children, to educate, to instill discipline, accuracy, respect for elders, to do homework elementarily. But there are a lot of claims and requirements. A considerable number of "ancestors" are trying to take on the functions of upbringing at school. Moreover, teachers have fewer rights, and more responsibilities.
And how can a teacher, 90% a woman, raise someone in 45 minutes of a lesson?

[Bulrumeb]

exactly. here’s an example in a local school a seventh grader became pregnant, it turned out that determining her father was not so easy since she was used by three 19-20 years old, in turn at someone’s hut. So dad ran to school and screamed at the class teacher that she didn’t look behind his children

[Vard]

He worked as a master ... for two years he did not receive a quarterly prize ... each time one of the morons ... I apologize ... he corrected the natural needs of the staircase ... he was caught !!! the police drew up a protocol ... which they sent to the school and they deprived me of the prize ... In the third year I caught him without witnesses and gently beat him ... Of course, the quarterly bonus is not very large, but there was beer ...

[Bulrumeb]

That's it, and the parents seemed to be out of business. By the way, did the measures taken by you personally help? through the ass should reach something better

[militia2]

You have noticed the most basic problems. But somehow they still cope, although 90% of women! To help you, a case from practice: "... I stand, I hear someone swearing at my feet. I’m watching, a third-grader. Well, I asked him homework - to write an essay with dad about the dangers of a 5-sheet mat. A year has already passed, boy how to change. " So, attract parents, somehow bring up together, although yours yourself know all this and know how.

[tolyasik0577]

Yes, damn what kind of children are those who are developing at school age

innovative medical device in the section "Biomedical Engineering"

?

[Million]

This is not thanks .a contrary ...

[pafegosoff]

Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yekaterinburg, two from the capital of Kusbass ...
And?
By the way, the guys are taken into account by the United States. Do you think they will work in Russia? Come on!
In Russia, these victims of the exam will work. And all these lyceums ... and even "school number 57" - only the name "school", but in reality - the chosen educational institution - the best mathematical in Russia.
And the rest?
Robots are changing workers in factories, computers - sellers, accountants and bank employees. The time will come, it turns out that robots and computers are better than doctors diagnosed and treated, better than lawyers judged and defended, better managers manage companies and finances. And a person imprisoned in a narrow specialty will be thrown out onto the street with a penny of severance pay (housing and other benefits will be taken in favor of the lender) and on the street - frost minus 40 ...
In general, I am happy for the winners who will invent and manage even more advanced robots (truth, Artificial Intelligence during the period of the Technological Singularity will throw these geniuses out into the street) ...

[voyaka uh]

"And a man imprisoned for a narrow specialty will
thrown out into the street with a penny of severance pay "////

It's right. Today hold on to one specialty and
one job is dangerous. Specialties fade and change
very fast. It is impossible to stop it.
The winners are those who are able to quickly relearn.

[militia2]

There was a forecast in the 19th century for Paris. It was believed how quickly the number of horsemen and horses was increasing. They came to the conclusion that by the beginning of the 20th century Paris was covered with a meter-long layer of manure. And as for robots, this is true - many things do better. Yes, only, for example, they will never replace teachers.

[1536]

This suggests that you need to have a head on your shoulders, and use it not only during meals.

[sib.ataman]

Do not deceive yourself! When they talk about the exam, it concerns 99,99% of all schoolchildren of the Russian Federation! And if we are talking about the contestants, it is clear that they are being prepared according to special programs that have nothing to do with this exam! The fact that our country is rich in talents is not news! And how do the authorities use it? Perfectly! They create all the conditions for their journey beyond the hill, or drown in the stinking slime of this samago USE! The fact that these talents reach the contests is, to a greater extent, the merit of their parents (as in sports), and officials with their grants just use the finished product! Where are the different circles of creativity for children and adolescents in schools, clubs and various palaces, such as those that were in the USSR? To the question of the participation of the state! The answer is obvious!

[sib.ataman]

Quote: Bulrumeb

exactly. here’s an example in a local school a seventh grader became pregnant, it turned out that determining her father was not so easy since she was used by three 19-20 years old, in turn at someone’s hut. So dad ran to school and screamed at the class teacher that she didn’t look behind his children

And they didn’t ask this dad — he himself remembers where, when, and with whom did the children conceive? In general, this case is not so rare! Modern youngsters, not without the help of tyrnet and public gadgets, have long plunged into early sexuality! Moreover, early ripening props up!

[Imobile]

USE is still a big plus. I am very glad that my children will take it. Of course, you don’t need to dwell on it, but you need to improve it. And logic - still earlier, in early childhood, develops, maybe even up to 3 years. Then you need more toys, designers

[free]

Units did well, but millions were left behind! The fee for higher education is unbearable! Here is our elite’s plan to move the masses away from learning, from knowledge, and to spread clerical activity wherever possible. Replace knowledge with a faith that is based on nothing but itself faith. It will be convenient to rule such people.

[KERMET]

Quote: korvin1976

Quote: KERMET

See where the winners are from?

So what? Is this some kind of indicator? Do you really think that if you type “oaks” in these lyceums, then medalists will turn out of them later?
Maybe just a little different? Are these talented people going to lyceums, gymnasiums and other institutions to improve their knowledge and develop more deeply?

Quote: KERMET

only the school in the last grades practically doesn’t teach, but simply trains them to solve these tests

Or maybe you shouldn’t blame the school for everything? Maybe in the first place it is worth paying attention to parents? And their attitude to their child? It’s simply easiest to switch to consumer policy: the customer is always right. Excuse me, but you are primarily involved in the upbringing, education of your child, and the school for you is just a tool in this process.

1. The fact that more talented children go to the lyceum is not bad, but this is not a reason for the state to “hammer in” the bulk of children for training.
2. Yes, the school is just a tool, only now it is defective, so to speak (for example, a daughter at school now does not teach mathematics at all, the old teacher has left). We just slowly wean from high-quality free education. If you want quality, pay.

[Dedok]

and the children of our leaders, in the bulk, where do they study?
Why?
but in general - this is good news and, in general, is served correctly

[mkop]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

that is, a nuclear physicist has enough knowledge of molecular physics or optics

What are sufficient for their general development as a physicist? May be. For work in an optical company, for example? Not. They need optics, chemists in the laboratory, not nuclear physicists. Yes, he has ideas about optics, but they are lower compared to a normal specialist.

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: mkop

They need optics, chemists in the laboratory, not nuclear physicists

an idiotic example, why surgeons not to remember?! a specialist who, in addition to specializing in the field, will also have knowledge in adjacent areas will give a much greater result than a “clean” one

[voyaka uh]

Well done. I bet that in 10 years
half of these talented kids will be fine
to earn and open their businesses in Cremie Valley in California.
Like Mr. Durov, the “Russian Zuckerberg” or Seryozha Brin, the founder of Google.

[militia2]

May be. Or maybe, like three times Hero of Soc. labor Julius Borisovich Khariton, or as three times Hero of Soc. Yakov Borisovich Zeldovich will create something so that from your oh America there will be only a wet place. Everything may be, only the Lord knows.

[reservist]

and what talents did 5-year-old Seryozha Brin distinguish when his parents left Moscow in 1979?

[razved]

Not thanks, but contrary!

[l7yzo]

It is noteworthy against the background and on the basis of which company this event was. I think they have already made advantageous offers.

[l7yzo]

"- You know, Nadenka, and I am the representative of the most conservative profession.
- Yes? We can compete with you.
- No, I'm serious. It is especially difficult to have our own opinion. What if it is wrong? Mistakes of doctors cost people dearly.
- Yes ... Teachers' mistakes are less noticeable, but in the end they cost people no less expensive. "(With light steam)

[Ingvar 72]

nadezhiva,
On the red square in the 91st were enlightened?

[reservist]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

there was a huge plus in old spurs, while you write everything you learn

Well, it's like someone ... not everyone has a good motor memory ...
I didn’t write spurs at school or at the institute, maybe the abstract was enough, and maybe slowly reading / understanding the material was enough ... although it was probably just too lazy ...

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: reservist

Well, it's like someone ... not everyone has a good motor memory ...

at all, you can’t write that at least something in the head is not left

[reservist]

of course, something settles, but it was about the fact that visual or auditory memory may be better than motor memory, although this is probably not typical

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

yes *** TOTAL! Do you live in the middle of nowhere?

it is clear, that is, there is no answer

Quote: K0

about new discoveries in physics and chemistry do not hear or do not want to hear?

a young man with a burning eye, you are aware of WHAT they study in physics at school, or so they read the news that they’re not able to think ?!
once again for those with a burning eye, the first law of thermodynamics, as well as Newton’s laws, has not been canceled, and g on planet Earth is still the same 9.8 m / s2 and imagine the zero meridian passes through the Greenwich Observatory, and not through Pulkovo

p / s / name at least one discovery in physics over the past 25 years, how many hours a week were devoted to physics in high school under the USSR and how many are now

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

it is clear, that is, there is no answer

I'm sick of looking for you examples, like with the same watch. and then see again about the same watch. you demanded to find evidence for you, found. from you not a single dock no

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

a young man with a burning eye, you are aware of WHAT they study in physics at school, or so they read the news that they’re not able to think ?!

for example, my son showed me new compounds of all kinds of plastics, about which I did not read at school.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

p / s / name at least one discover in physics over the past 25 years

for those who are “in the tank”: dark matter, look for the full list yourself (but you are too lazy), I’m not interested in doing this for you
PS if your children receive (or) less knowledge at school than before (or do you think so) - it's your problem. the only thing that’s really worse now is the teachers themselves, look for a school where they are normal.
ZYY Well, about the "youth" it went, grandfather with a difference of 10 years)))

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

I'm sick of looking for you examples

so you haven’t brought a single one yet

Quote: K0

as with the same watch

the number of hours in physics has not changed 2 hours a week

Quote: K0

for example, my son showed me new compounds of all kinds of plastics

I understand that with the formation of a problem, the compounds of plastics, gi, do not belong to the physics course, but to the chemistry course, by the way, if we talk about chemistry in the course, we reduced the number of hours in chemistry in high school from 2 up to 1 hour

Quote: K0

for those who are "in the tank": dark matter, see the full list for yourself

for those who are outside and at school walking more than studying, this does not apply to the high school course

Quote: K0

Look for a school where they are normal.

dear educationally I myself am able to teach physics and mathematics

Quote: K0

less knowledge at school than before (or do you think so)

I don’t think so, but the school curriculum, by the way, are you aware that for example astronomy was returned only this year, and before that it was seized as an object ?!
drawing left at the discretion of schools want to teach, want not, etc.
p / s / do not argue on topics that do not understand

[Cxnumx]

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

so you haven’t brought a single one yet

about the clock was? your examples where, what less hours, except for elementary school.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

the number of hours in physics has not changed 2 hours a week

is education only physics important? and give the source where you found this decline, including in chemistry.

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

for those who are outside and at school walking more than studying, this does not apply to the high school course

and so you are already talking about discoveries in the science of the school course said. specify then right away, here it is not clear:

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

p / s / name at least one discovery in physics over the past 25 years

and I repeat, I will not make comparisons of school curricula for textbooks. it will take too much of my time and will not give any result, because most likely designate found as "insignificant". from the objective: discoveries occur in science every day, I don’t know which ones fall into the textbooks. but my son, for example, knows about quantum teleportation (he is still at school).

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

for those who are outside and at school walking more than studying, this does not apply to the high school course

it’s useful for self-importance to think of others worse

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

I don’t think so, but the school curriculum, by the way, are you aware that for example astronomy was returned only this year, and before that it was seized as an object ?!

I still believe that this is a "critically important subject."

Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir

p / s / do not argue on topics that do not understand

ok, I don’t see any reason to argue, because dock-in no (well, except from "I know because I know").

[Vasilenko Vladimir]

Quote: K0

about the clock was? your examples where, what less hours, except for elementary school.

and sat with them in a puddle

Quote: K0

and give the source where you found this decline, including in chemistry.

https://infourok.ru/rabochaya-programma-po-himii-
class-chas-393493.html

Quote: K0

and so you are already talking about discoveries in the science of the school course said. specify then right away, here it is not clear:

do not turn on a fool, the conversation was conducted initially about the school curriculum and YOU claimed that new discoveries entailed an increase in the volume of the school curriculum

Quote: K0

is education only physics important?

well, indicate the changes in Euclidean geometry, elementary algebra, the basics of mt analysis, geography, drawing (which, by the way, was made an optional subject) of inorganic chemistry

Quote: K0

I still believe that this is a “critical subject”

Yes, but it was seized accordingly. The amount of information received decreased and did not increase.

Quote: K0

ok, I don’t see any reason to argue, because dock-in no (well, except from "I know because I know").

no, just when an amateur tries to argue with a person versed in a topic it looks silly