MiG-31K. The Ministry of Defense modernized the carrier of the complex "Dagger"

Hypersonic aviation complex "Dagger" has acquired a special carrier. According to the Russian Ministry of Defense, specifically for the complex, the MiG-31 fighter-interceptor was seriously modified, which after modernization received the letter "K" in the name. Also had to retrain pilots, added the military.

The resulting aircraft is very different from the basic version of the MiG-31. The radar was removed from the aircraft, the amount of fuel was increased for a longer stay in the air, and the cabin was thoroughly reworked, installing a new weapon control system and a new communications equipment for receiving target indication signals.

As stated in the Ministry of Defense, the mass and dimensions of the Dagger rocket led to a change in the center of mass of the aircraft, so the pilots had to be retrained under the new conditions.

The military department also explained that the carrier aircraft is used as the “first stage” in the “Dagger” complex. After receiving the appropriate command, it accelerates and gains altitude, and only after that does it start. Thanks to a special target designation system, the missile mission can be entered directly from the board.

Currently, ten MiG-31Ks are in operational combat operation. They are based in Akhtubinsk (Astrakhan region) and are already on duty.

The Dagger complex is capable of hitting aircraft carriers, destroyers and potential enemy cruisers. The combat part of this complex is a modified Iskander missile.

Comments

[aszzz888]

Currently, ten MiG-31K are in trial combat operation.

So we need to stamp them more !!!

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: aszzz888

So we need to stamp them more !!!

At least - by the number of aircraft carriers at the adversary.

[aszzz888]

At least - by the number of aircraft carriers at the adversary. wink

This is at least !!! But it’s better to do with a margin, you never know ...

[bouncyhunter]

Quote: aszzz888

But it’s better to do with a margin, you never know ...

I agree . Stock pocket does not pull.

[bulvas]

Pasha, welcome!



It seems that not only radar was removed, but also air-to-air missiles

Interestingly, the rocket is so heavy, or is it due to aerodynamic drag, since it is necessary to accelerate the aircraft to the speed of rocket launch?

[alexmach]

But they are without a radar and are not needed, like. It is not entirely clear why MIGI and not, say, TU-22M3 will be converted for daggers.

[voyaka uh]

And it seemed strange to me. With a heavy rocket he’s all the same
especially high speed does not develop. A bomber would pull two
missiles and could launch them at the same speed.
Without radar and pylons, the MiG-31 missiles are completely defenseless against
enemy aircraft. That is, deep into the enemy’s territory, do not send him ...
Most likely, they simply save the MiG-31 from disposal, so that they still serve.

[Rushnairfors]

Tu22m3 without rockets 1.5m barely pulls, while I say nothing about refueling ......

[venik]

Quote: voyaka uh

That is, deep into the enemy’s territory, do not send him ...
Most likely, they simply save the MiG-31 from disposal, so that they still serve.

===========
Well, my friend, Cheered !! Why the hell does it ask, it (MiG-31K) must be sent "deep into enemy territory"if a rocket has a range of more than 2 km ??? If this thing can crash through an object ... well, let's say in Israel, without leaving the" administrative borders "of the Astrakhan region !!!!!

[conservative]

If this gizmo can crash through the facility ... well, let's say in Israel, without leaving the "administrative borders" of the Astrakhan region !!!!!

I love Russia! Her room!

[Zaurbek]

Most likely, this complex will fly over the territory of the Russian Federation and shoot at + 1500 km. Range and speed will allow you to quickly move around the Russian Federation and for the MiG-31 it’s a pension. When the Afar will massively go to the Dry and Long-Range Rocket, the need for 31m will disappear.

[Every]

Quote: alexmach

But they are without a radar and are not needed, like. It is not entirely clear why MIGI and not, say, TU-22M3 will be converted for daggers.

TU-22 M3 as of 2017. in service is 62 cars.
MIG-31 about 130 units in service.
But apparently the TU is more in demand, and the MIGs, no matter how good they would not be, of old age, so they found a job for them. (aka needles).
Although in the future it is necessary to create a new medium, for example, based on PAK DP

[alexmach]

But apparently the TU is more in demand, and the MIGs, no matter how good they would not be, of old age, so they found a job for them. (aka needles).

Yes, with the announced TU modernization program, they will come in handy yet.
But what about the lack of demand of the MIG is strange somehow. His main job was missile defense. In my opinion, the task is still relevant, at least as long as the Tamagawks are in service with the "partners" ...

[bouncyhunter]

Vasya, hello! I am not special in aviation, but for some reason I think that it was not by chance that the MiG-31 was chosen as the carrier, and not some other aircraft.

[Bad_santa]

MiG-25 would fit better in its performance characteristics. The MiG-31 has a lower speed limit than the 25th. In general, the NATO pilots, when they realized that they were dealing with the MiG-25, immediately fired all the missiles at it and went back. I can imagine how the pilots felt on the F-15 and F-16. Even 8 aircraft against one MiG-25 laid bricks. In general, during Operation Storm in a Glass, the capabilities of the MiG-25 showed the superiority of the former over the Allied aircraft. Even in the hands of Iraqis

[Vladimir 5]

Means of destruction, taking into account the enemy’s counteractions, should be duplicated as the enemy’s counter-capabilities increase and should consist of 10 or more multiplier by means. It is still desirable to introduce a system of adjustments to targets in salvo applications, and the more, the more likely the lesions. One Mig-31K will probably be detected and even destroyed before the approach, here are a dozen, so the probability of a breakthrough is increased, the opponents are also not born ... So, at least 10 Mig-31K to go to the AUG ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Vladimir 5

Vladimir 5 (Vladimir) Today, 11: 29 ↑ New
Means of destruction, taking into account the enemy’s counteractions, should be duplicated as the enemy’s counter-capabilities increase and should consist of 10 or more multiplier by means. It is still desirable to introduce a system of adjustments to targets in salvo applications, and the more, the more likely the lesions. One Mig-31K will probably be detected and even destroyed before the approach, here are a dozen, so the probability of a breakthrough is increased, the opponents are also not born ... So, at least 10 Mig-31K to go to the AUG ...

I haven’t read such nonsense for a long time ... at point blank range were we going to shoot?

[Alex777]

What my colleague wrote is similar to the tactics of using naval aviation (Tu-22) in the USSR.
As for the Daggers - I don’t understand one thing - why no one considers the number of MIG-31 that we can now fly into the air and their resource. Well, the idea to remove the radar from the plane at all - looks IMHO dubious. Kamikaze plane work?

[figwam]

Quote: Alex777

Kamikaze plane work?

As for the Daggers - I don’t understand one thing - why no one considers the number of MIG-31 that we can now fly into the air and their resource.
More than a hundred in service, the same number in storage.
And who will bring him down over his territory for 2000 km from the target? Well, if so scary, let their interceptors accompany.

[Alex777]

And who will bring him down over his territory for 2000 km from the target? Well, if so scary, let their interceptors accompany.

Have you heard about the development of the SM-3 block IIB?
Even the GDP on television said that we are aware of the development of an air defense missile with a range of 2000 km. Escort interceptors are not known as they will help. These missiles for ICBMs were originally designed to shoot down at the initial stage of flight. They are going to put them in Poland and Romania. Add to these missiles a nuclear warhead and an oil painting is obtained. Including therefore, such problems with the INF Treaty went.

[Incvizitor]

It looks like the fighter-interceptor was turned into a carrier aircraft an OTK like a bomber.

[YarSer88]

Edac MiG-31 will be accompanied by fighters it was hard to imagine

[Incvizitor]

They still need to catch him

[YarSer88]

Without radar and ammunition ... He wants to live - he will slow down

[Vladimir 5]

Aircraft are already fixed when taking off at aerodromes, identifying the aircraft by its characteristics. You probably haven’t read anything at all for twenty-five years, if you don’t understand ...

[zyzx]

Quote: Vladimir 5

One Mig-31K will probably be detected and even destroyed before the approach

By whom, he will shoot for 1000 km or more. And at the speed of Mach 3, no one will catch him.

[Pete mitchell]

Quote: Vladimir 5

Mig-31K will probably be detected and even before the approach and destroyed

If you have the information, then count the interception of the MiG-31 going into the application area at the optimum speed and altitude for launch. I’ll say offhand: the task is very difficult

[NN52]

Pete mitchell
Hi Tramp!
Under this article, I had some big misunderstandings (someone is slightly cheating on someone ...), or zhurnalyugi again ...
How Makar was increased fuel supply! What, tanks have added somewhere else? Just where did they shove them? This is nonsense .... Yes, and why is it in the presence of refueling in the air?
Regarding the dismantling of the station ... Perhaps removed the 8TK Heat Locator and blocks from it ...
But not the antenna array itself with blocks weighing 1,5 tons .. If you have such a suspension in the form of a Dagger, to lighten the cook and the front of the plane (all blocks in the cockpit area) by 1,5 tons? And the alignment and everything else, what's wrong with that then?
This is an almost new aircraft with a NEW AND long cycle of testing only the glider itself ....
Regarding the retraining of pilots ... Here I see only small nuances in piloting on takeoff and landing, due to the weight of the Dagger (and a slight change in the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft) and nothing more ..
And about the cab ... Since it was originally a MIG 31 BM, there was no particular need to redo the rear cab, with three excellent displays, to add something, and that’s all ...
So the article is not unambiguous, in my opinion ...

[bouncyhunter]

Hello Dima ! Thanks for the details on the part of the connoisseur: many doubts, if not dissipated, then become clearer.

[NN52]

Pasha, hello!
Yes, sometimes sometimes infa is a little surprising periodically ...
Although sometimes surprisingly pleasantly unexpected ...
I HAVE ANYWHERE TO KNOW ...
After some time, we’ll probably find out the details, but I don’t think that soon, or very late soon .....

[Pete mitchell]

Two hundred and fifty, you know better .., I'll go try to see Holland

[NN52]

Tramp!
You are there with red lights, like this, more closely ...
I'm worried about you ////

[bk316]

At least - by the number of aircraft carriers at the adversary.

Good afternoon.
This means one more thing to do. Well, except for the European Union crafts.

[aszzz888]

bk316 (Vladimir) Today, 11: 07 ↑ New
At least - by the number of aircraft carriers at the adversary.
Good afternoon.
This means one more thing to do. Well, except for the European Union crafts.

Good afternoon! And in reserve ??? "One we write - three in the mind!"

[bk316]

Good afternoon! And in reserve ???

In reserve it is necessary.
But I still think that it can be used on the ground: airfields, command posts, radar.
Therefore, of course, the rockets themselves need to be done a little more, especially if it is somehow compatible with Iskander in production, then there will be no particular problems. Iskander is doing a big series.

[bouncyhunter]

Vladimir

Quote: bk316

European Union crafts

[dorz]

Recently, Russia has passed successful tests of the railgun, they write that they have reached good speeds and the power is greater than the American one. Weapons against satellites, but other targets are possible.

[PROXOR]

And how many per aircraft carrier?

[Gennady Berezhnov]

When there is a need, we will find out in fact!

[Per se.]

Quote: PROXOR

quantity per aircraft carrier?

Currently, the US Navy has 11 nuclear aircraft carriers, so, the Yankees still have more such ships than we have MiG-31K. As far as it is reasonable from the good and necessary for the interceptor interceptor to do the "aircraft carrier killer", how and where he will find AUG in the sea raises questions. If this is not a kamikaze, who "removed the radar, increased the amount of fuel for a longer stay in the air," then the choice of such an aircraft carrier rocket "Dagger" is in doubt, when for the sea, as missile carriers, always used modifications of the Tu-22.

[Yura]

Quote: PROXOR

And how much per aircraft carrier

With a nuclear warhead, one.

[siberalt]

Drowning an aircraft carrier with one “knife” is not enough, even if it is equipped with a nuclear warhead. But boiling over the team will bring serious. They will burn for a long time.

[Nevsky_ZU]

The radar was removed from the aircraft, the amount of fuel was increased for a longer stay in the air, and the cabin was thoroughly reworked, installing a new weapon control system and a new communications equipment for receiving target indication signals.

According to the Ministry of Defense, the mass and dimensions of the Dagger rocket led to a change in the center of mass of the aircraft, so the pilots had to be retrained under the new conditions.

Why did Radar have to be removed from Mig-31? Did he weigh so much?

[bk316]

And why did you need to remove the Radar from the Mig-31?

Something tells me that it was replaced by another, in order to work on surface targets.

[aszzz888]

bk316 (Vladimir) Today, 11: 08 ↑
And why did you need to remove the Radar from the Mig-31?
Something tells me that it was replaced by anotherto work on surface targets.

... of course they won’t leave the plane “blind,” something adapted in return ...

[MPN]

The tactics of performing the tasks that are set before him include providing him (the carrier) with work, I think the interceptors and fighters and AWACS and jammers, and possibly refuellers, will be included in the order of forces and equipment, so there is no sense of carrier’s universalism, maximum equipment media protection ...

[Zaurbek]

What are the goals? A radar somewhere 300-400km will see and all. At 1000-2000km only the external control unit.

[siberalt]

Vague doubts torment that for the “dagger" the first step will be a little small. It would be better to carry him in the "belly".

[NN52]

SUV Barrier by weight is about 1,5 tons (in the coca there is only the antenna itself (lattice), and all other blocks in other places). And the heat finder also enters into the same complex, and as I understand it, it was also dismantled ...

[Hire]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

Why did Radar have to be removed from Mig-31? Did he weigh so much?

So the cabin was refitted. Apparently I had to clean up the extra devices. The radar data processing equipment turned out to be superfluous. At the same time, the radar itself was removed, and in its place some kind of target indicator was built.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

And why did you need to remove the Radar from the Mig-31? He weighed so much

and a place for new equipment?

[avt]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

And why did you need to remove the Radar from the Mig-31?

Maybe they put something instead of it like on the MiG-27 ,, Kaira "was there. It is quite understandable and logical - almost only an airplane is an accelerator. Target designation is probably not coming from him.

Quote: aszzz888

So we need to stamp them more !!!

That’s how much they’ve stamped "in the USSR, and from those corps they will choose - to whom in the air defense, and to whom," accelerators-shockers "

Quote: Chertt

MiG-31 was made more than 500 pieces. How many of them and in what condition they are now, the question.

Well, the glider there is not killed, in order to kill it, you have to try hard and sweat, but the filling must be new, including the engines.

[vik669]

Quote: avt

on the MiG-27 ,, Kayra "was

on the MiG-27 there was no radar on any (,, Kayra "on the MiG-27K) they solved their tasks and whether the radar was needed for the sake of the radar and it didn’t fly alone then!

[Zaurbek]

On the Su-25, too, no ... but there are not the same speeds and tasks ...

[aszzz888]

avt Today, 11: 36 ... Well, the glider is not killed there, in order to kill it, you have to try hard and sweat

...
... titanium is a serious thing ...

[cariperpaint]

Of course))) only one question, but from what?)))))

[Chertt]

Quote: aszzz888

So we need to stamp them more !!!

MiG-31 was made more than 500 pieces. How many of them and in what condition they are now, the question. But for all the Fleets there will be enough “western partners” (and eastern ones). You only need to adapt it to the “Dagger", and train the pilots

[aszzz888]

Chertt (Alexey) Today, 11: 10

Mine, to you !
Of course, there are fewer lines in the ranks now, but if under modernization, things will go faster than sculpting new ones.

[Chertt]

good afternoon

Quote: aszzz888

things will go faster than sculpting new ones.

The production of new MiG-31s ​​has been discontinued, only modernization is underway. Recover, of course, is not a problem. (all in stock), but so far there is no need (they simply doh * Rena, glory of the USSR)

[aszzz888]

Chertt (Aleksey) Today, 11: 50 The production of new MiG-31 is phased out, only modernization is underway. Recover, of course, is not a problem. (all available), but so far there is no need (them just doh * Rena, glory to the USSR)

... worked in the Union both on quality and on QUANTITY ... because the gratitude to our former "system" is really great ...

[Captain Pushkin]

Quote: Chertt

good afternoon

Quote: aszzz888

things will go faster than sculpting new ones.

The production of new MiG-31s ​​has been discontinued, only modernization is underway. Recover, of course, is not a problem. (all in stock), but so far there is no need (they simply doh * Rena, glory of the USSR)

To restore the production of the new MiG-31 VERY BIG PROBLEM. Aircraft industry in Russia, this is not aircraft industry in the USSR. Some unfortunate Il-114 cannot be put into production for ten years, which by technology did not lie next to the MiG-31 ...

[cariperpaint]

And the interceptors are no longer needed huh?)))

[tchack]

Recently they wrote that 130 units and 130 units are in storage.

[Dikson]

Given the Russian specifics of the storage conditions - everything is stolen and dispossessed there ... Storage of aircraft in the open air in our latitudes is not at all dry American conditions ...

[figwam]

Dikson

Such aircraft are not scattered, work is ongoing at the repair plant.

[Orkraider]

Quote: aszzz888

Currently, ten MiG-31K are in trial combat operation.

So we need to stamp them more !!!

I think (IMHO) no more carriers are needed, more rockets themselves are needed.
Carriers from afar, without entering the interception zone, launch missiles, so they are not particularly at risk.
For if you convert the interceptors into version “K”, then there will be few interceptors themselves, which are also very important

[aszzz888]

Orkraider (I) Today, 11: 28 I think, (IMHO) no more media neededneed more rockets themselves

Of course, not to fanaticism ... but the number of carriers and of course the rockets, I think have already been counted in the General Staff of the RF Armed Forces ... And leave the 31s, respectively, for interception ...

[Separ DNR]

Quote: Orkraider

I think (IMHO) no more carriers are needed, more rockets themselves are needed.

Or carriers carrying more than one rocket ...
Can the "minigun tag" Tu 22M3, and now also the Tu 22M3M be the carrier of these (several) missiles?
After all, as you know, this bomber was developed to combat the AUG ...

I understand that start height, carrier speed, and the like, but still ...

[Zaurbek]

Interestingly, 2 pieces of dagger will be placed on it?

[svp67]

Quote: aszzz888

So we need to stamp them more !!!

Why them? I don’t quite understand why not to remake the Tu-22 or Tu-160 under the “Dagger”? The release of which, in a modernized version, is now being adjusted. They will be able to take these missiles more, but the "31st" must be returned to the air defense, they will find a lot of work there

[Wedmak]

I don’t quite understand why not to remake Tu-22 or Tu-160 under "Daggers"?

The speed is not that visible. Under 3000, neither the Tu-22М3 nor the Tu-160 will accelerate. And the moment with the preparation for the departure - the faster the better.

[svp67]

Quote: Wedmak

Under 3000, neither Tu-22M3 nor Tu-160 will accelerate

Do you think that such a suspension of this rocket allows the MiG to accelerate to 3000? It is doubtful. She’ll just rip her off

[Wedmak]

Of course, the MiG will not accelerate to maximum speed, of course, there is a bit of 3000 if I'm not mistaken, and then, under ideal conditions, without ammunition, etc. But anyway, the acceleration speed and maximum speed with such a suspension will be higher than that of the TUshek. Yes, and it is unlikely that the carrier was selected for only one characteristic. Flight altitude, climb speed, ground maintenance, modernization work and their cost, etc.

[Dikson]

These products are initially a different task. These are not bounty hunters .. Swans are essentially not aviation at all, but the Strategic Missile Forces .. It’s not a royal thing to chase boxes in the ocean ..

[Separ DNR]

Quote: Dikson

These products are initially a different task. These are not bounty hunters ..

That's just Tu 22M3, and was created as a hunter for AUG ...

[aszzz888]

svp67 (Sergey) Today, 11: 46 And ​​why them? I don’t quite understand why not to remake Tu-22 or Tu-160 under "Daggers"? The release of which, in a modernized version, is now being adjusted. They will be able to take these missiles more, but the 31 must be returned to the air defense, they will find quite a bit of work

Good afternoon !
The whole chip in the speed of the carrier ... below comrade Wedmak (Denis) Today, 12: 12, briefly and succinctly indicated, I support His opinion ...

[sentaniel]

Quote: svp67

and the "31st" must be returned to the air defense, they will find a lot of work there

in order to bring down the Avaks and the team, there will be enough of those who remain in the ranks, but they will not hit highly maneuverable targets at such a distance

[Mavrikiy]

The radar was removed from the plane,

What is it like? Removed the excess?

[Piramidon]

Quote: Mavrikiy

The radar was removed from the plane,

What is it like? Removed the excess?

So I also think that they really left nothing for navigation. Will it fly by compass and map?

[kit88]

Where did you read that you removed the navigation system? In simple terms, the scope was removed. These are, as it were, different things.
At least they used to be ...

[Piramidon]

Quote: kit88

Where did you read that you removed the navigation system? In simple terms, the scope was removed. These are, as it were, different things.
At least they used to be ...

As far as I remember, on the Tu-95RTs one radar (U-1A) was used for target designation and navigation. Therefore, I asked such a question.
Yes, there were also a course system, astro, radio and gyrocompasses, but navigators used a radar as a control for geolocation

[kit88]

On the 31st KN-25 (navigation complex) took data from the IS and RSBN for correction. Maybe of course now something has changed, but I have not heard about the new sight for the MiG.

[Dikson]

RSBN is an airdrome complex, as far as I remember .. 400 km is the maximum sense in such an adjustment, if the board fulfills the task, who knows where?

[kit88]

Well, so this is a MIDDLE navigation system.
By the way, there is also a VISUAL correction, there is generally a "range" - direct visibility to the pilot.

[Piramidon]

Quote: kit88

By the way, there is also a VISUAL correction, there is generally a "range" - direct visibility to the pilot

At one time, we piloted helicopter pilots - “It’s easier for you, you have a clause in your instructions:“ Restoring orthorientation by interviewing local residents ”

[Igor V]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Mavrikiy

The radar was removed from the plane,

What is it like? Removed the excess?

So I also think that they really left nothing for navigation. Will it fly by compass and map?

According to the Kaganovich compass and a pack of Belomor.

[Chicha squad]

Once the radar was removed, instead of a circular indicator, they probably put a digital LCD display with display including navigation.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Chicha Squad

Once the radar was removed, instead of a circular indicator, they probably put a digital LCD display with display including navigation.

The display itself will not give out anything (try turning on the monitor without a computer), the data on it should come from somewhere.

[Chicha squad]

In my phone, navigation somehow works.

Do you think this multifunction display does not fit the GLONASS chip? Of course, I don’t know if military navigation chips are carried in suitcases.

[Piramidon]

In principle, it is possible to direct the plane from the ground as in the "dolokator" era. But now any aircraft should have a system independent of external sources. After all, he now has a satellite, and after 5 minutes it "went out."

[Zaurbek]

As I understand it, the MiG should go to the given launch point and that’s all .... The missile then dives into a certain Square and searches for a target in a narrow sector.

[kit88]

Quote: Chicha Squad

In my phone, navigation somehow works.

The plane is not a telephone. You won’t get off with a chip here.

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Dynamic characteristics:
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A-737 was installed at the facilities: 10V, 10K-6, 10KUB, Su-24M2, Su-25M2, Su-25SM-1, Su-25TM, Su-25UBM, Su-27SM1, Su-30MKK-1, Su-30KI , Su-30M1, Su-32M, Su-33, Su-35, Su-35UB, based on the Il-86, Il-38 (and "8SD"), Il-20, Tu-22M3, Tu-95MS, MiG -29SMT, MiG-29UBT, MiG-31BM, MiG-UTS, Mi-24PN, Mi-8MT, Mi-28N, Ka-27, Ka-31 (03D2), Ka-31 (23D2), V-60U, A -fifty.

[bazzbazz]

Am I mistaken or the dagger in this photo is completely different. Unlike the first photos and videos?
Well done, keep it up!

[aszzz888]

bazzbazz (Maxim) Today, 11: 00 New
Am I mistaken or the dagger in this photo is completely different. Unlike the first photos and videos?

... something like this ... https: //youtu.be/qBzp36j0OXo ...

[Wild_grey_wolf]

This is an answer to the INF Treaty and Tomogavki.
And over time, the system will be brought to mind, there is no limit to perfection.

[impostor]

carrier aircraft used as the "first stage"

The main thing is a reusable step.

[rotor]

In general, the Russian killer of aircraft carriers on alert and let the adversary tremble.

[_Ugene_]

The Dagger complex is capable of hitting aircraft carriers, destroyers and cruisers of a potential enemy.

It seems like a ballistic missile and not a cruise missile, how can it be controlled to defeat moving targets?

[Muvka]

Yes, we have long been all ballistic missiles can maneuver. Even the ICBMs. What is the problem then?

[_Ugene_]

it’s one thing to make chaotic maneuvers in order to confuse missile defense, it’s quite another thing to precisely aim at a moving target, if it were so simple, you could make an aircraft carrier killer out of any ground-based ballistic missile, so far no one in the world has such missiles no, hence the doubt

[Muvka]

Well, from half a year ago there was news that the Chinese launched an anti-ship ballistic missile on duty. They were able, but we are not?

[Wedmak]

that the Chinese launched an anti-ship ballistic missile on duty.

Did the Chinese fire this missile at a moving target? I remember on a target of a standing beat, two hits ....

[Piramidon]

Quote: _Ugene_

it’s one thing to make chaotic maneuvers in order to confuse missile defense, it’s quite another thing to precisely aim at a moving target, if it were so simple, you could make an aircraft carrier killer out of any ground-based ballistic missile, so far no one in the world has such missiles no, hence the doubt

If a rocket can make maneuvers, even if chaotic, then in principle it can already be controlled. It depends on what she will be controlled. Maybe a program, or maybe a homing head.

[Wedmak]

Well, she’s not quite ballistic. This is the so-called aeroballistic, that is, there are aerodynamic surfaces for changing course and aiming at the target.

Small wings at the rear and rudders in the jet stream.

[_Ugene_]

There is Iskander-K and Iskander-M. Iskander-M uses a quasi-ballistic missile. Iskander-K uses the R-500 cruise missile.
A quasi-ballistic missile is a ballistic missile performing chaotic maneuvers to overcome missile defense, i.e. course changes are not big and chaotic here, for full-fledged control of a rocket against a moving target this is not enough.

[Wedmak]

The question was how a ballistic missile is controlled ... and the dagger was implied.
We are now talking about the Dagger, this is a processing of the Iskander "aeroballistic" rocket, respectively, the picture from there. I admit that they could add something else to the Dagger for precise aiming at the target, such as: another homing head (or maybe not one), other steering wheels, another computer, strengthen the body to withstand energetic maneuvers, and so on ...

A quasi-ballistic missile is a ballistic missile performing chaotic maneuvers

No ... this is a rocket moving along a quasi-ballistic trajectory. Usually lower in altitude with course changes, and supporting itself in the air due to the aerodynamic characteristics of its body. They are not very outstanding, but they are enough to confuse an air defense computer that computes ballistic trajectories.

[_Ugene_]

Well, let's say a little on the course, it deviates in the right direction (judging by the appearance it is unlikely to be strong), and who will direct it at such a distance, even the base radar was removed from the carrier, satellites?

[Wedmak]

I would not say that a bit. Up to the turn at 90 degrees, judging by the video from Putin))). On the rocket itself, some rectangular windows were visible.

Surely an optical seeker or correction. Yes, and nobody cleaned the RGSN rocket itself, but it seems that even something new is standing, the fairing is different than on the Iskanderskys. The operator puts in the coordinates of the target, the rocket itself enters the area, looks for the target (whether it is optics, radar, it doesn’t matter) and dives at it ... somehow. It is very possible that they set up a television guidance system so that the operator himself would impose a crosshair on the sight. If so, this incidentally explains the removal of the radar - a place is needed for this system.

[_Ugene_]

Optical GOS, RGSN, television guidance system - it's all about cruise missiles.
Here hypersound, the temperature is huge, overloads of 20-30 G, no optics and radars can withstand this

[Wedmak]

no optics and radars can stand this

Why can't they stand it? It has already been discussed:
This rocket reaches hypersound only at a height where there is no air resistance, which means there are no high temperatures. Missiles of some air defense systems, as well as explosives, hold overload in 40G. And there is the IKGSN, it also needs to be cooled during this.
The dagger approaches the target area in hypersound, but dives toward the target itself already in supersonic - 4-5М. And here there is nothing transcendental.
Well, let's say an optical seeker does not always work, clouds, then, behold ... But the RSSS, what is it to her? A ship, a radio-contrast target, also has its own image for each ship. Putting such a missile on it is pretty simple. Of course, electronic warfare can interfere, but who will have time to use it when no more than a couple of minutes pass from finding a target to its defeat?

[_Ugene_]

This rocket reaches hypersound only at a height where there is no air resistance, which means there are no high temperatures.

Nevertheless, it flies in hypersound, the ICBM flies even higher and its warhead warms up to several thousand degrees. What optics can it stand? For the RGSN, a radio-transparent head fairing is needed, how do you imagine this at such temperatures?

[Wedmak]

and her warhead is heated to several thousand degrees.

Only when it enters the dense atmosphere.

What optics can it stand?

I guess that special tempered glass is easy. Even on the lander of the Union there are portholes. And through them, the plasma is clearly visible during the descent. The trick is that they are on the side and the plasma does not hit them.

radiotransparent head fairing, how do you imagine it at such temperatures?

Composites can not stand it. Moreover, this is not a descent from orbit, and even more so not ballistic. Of course, I won’t give you calculations, but it seems like there are even tables for heating the case, depending on height and speed. And the exact data on the Dagger is still no.
But who's stopping the cooling fairing? By the way, they did just that on MIG-25 / 31 ... 200 liters of alcohol do not just carry with them.

[_Ugene_]

Only when it enters the dense atmosphere.

and do you think the dagger is not included in the dense layers of the atmosphere? or something they shoot at the moon? you write that the speed drops to 4-5М, then during this braking about the atmosphere there will be hellish heating, in any case at hypersonic speeds there will be heating several thousand degrees

Even on the lander of the Union there are portholes. And through them, the plasma is clearly visible during the descent. The trick is that they are on the side and the plasma does not hit them.

that's just the point, what is the use of optics if it looks sideways and not in the direction of the rocket?

Composites can not stand it.

the ICBM burns a huge layer of heat-resistant coating on the warhead, there can be no talk about any radio transparency.

200 liters of alcohol for a reason.

Well, yes, take a ton of alcohol, there are also places and stock by weight as much as you like.
I see here the only option - the receiving antenna at the tail of the rocket and the correction according to the signal from the satellite

[Orkraider]

Quote: Wedmak

no optics and radars can stand this

Why can't they stand it? It has already been discussed:
This rocket reaches hypersound only at a height where there is no air resistance, which means there are no high temperatures. Missiles of some air defense systems, as well as explosives, hold overload in 40G. And there is the IKGSN, it also needs to be cooled during this.
The dagger approaches the target area in hypersound, but dives toward the target itself already in supersonic - 4-5М. And here there is nothing transcendental.
Well, let's say an optical seeker does not always work, clouds, then, behold ... But the RSSS, what is it to her? A ship, a radio-contrast target, also has its own image for each ship. Putting such a missile on it is pretty simple. Of course, electronic warfare can interfere, but who will have time to use it when no more than a couple of minutes pass from finding a target to its defeat?

Plus. With all of the above, I completely agree.

[Zaurbek]

Why? Maybe it’s optical (it stood at the Point) and there can be a Radar. and Thermal (ideally). With the selection of goals in the AUG.

[Vadim237]

These windows are orientation engines - the head part of this rocket is detachable.

[Wedmak]

Doubtful ... rectangular? Yes, and somehow they are not very symmetrical.

[voyaka uh]

The optical seeker looks like this:

[Wedmak]

I know. Well, who told you that anot standing under the gray fairing of the dagger? In addition, I said about optical, for example. Why can not I use the windows on the sides to search for a target? After all, a rocket on a march flies horizontally. And then the shortwave radar is turned on for precise guidance.

[Vadim237]

On the rocket there is definitely an active radar seeker.

[Zaurbek]

Well, this is one option, even on Iskander.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Wedmak

I admit that something else could be added to the dagger to accurately target

Somewhere it came across that on the "dagger" also used jet (gas rudders)

[_Ugene_]

In the USSR there were ballistic anti-ship missiles, guidance was carried out by satellites and aircraft, but there the accuracy of the offset was compensated by a low-power nuclear warhead, here you need a direct hit and it is not clear with the guidance - they removed from the instant-31

[cats]

Quote: _Ugene_

and hovering is not clear

What kind of intelligence are you working on? ..

[voyaka uh]

No way. He can’t get into a moving target.
Only users like Muvka who confuse minor correction at the terminal site
when falling on the target with aiming at the target, they think that the BR can maneuver.
Taking minor "swaying" gas rudders to complicate work
ABM for maneuvering.
If BR knew how to hit moving targets, then no one would have thought
to produce low-speed cruise missiles - they would not be needed.

[brr1]

If you get pace shave off?

[_Ugene_]

In fairness, it should be noted that anti-ship long-range ballistic missiles were successfully tested in the USSR back in 1972. R-27K (GRAU index 4K18). In the west, the rocket received the SS-NX-13 index.
Guidance on the passive site was carried out using a passive radar seeker, with signal processing on-board digital computer system. The initial data for firing were issued by the Legenda satellite system or the Success-U aviation system. Data processing on the Kasatka reconnaissance equipment made it possible to determine the coordinates of a group of ships with an accuracy of 25 km. These data are constantly becoming obsolete - during the prelaunch preparation, the target location can change up to 150 km. Therefore, for the second stage, it was envisaged to control by double switching on the propulsion system of the second stage in the extra-atmospheric flight section. Initially, an option was also considered for additional correction of the trajectory in the atmospheric section and equipping the rocket with a low-power warhead. But subsequently this option was abandoned in favor of a purely ballistic, with an increased warhead.
The insufficient accuracy of the guidance was compensated by a nuclear warhead, but even then, during the tests, some missiles hit the ship exactly and 45 years have passed since then, I think it’s already possible to actually make a ball. anti-ship missile falling exactly into the ship.
By the way, here is an article about her on this site -
https://topwar.ru/36200-protivokorabelnye-ballist
icheskie-rakety-dalnego-deystviya.html

[Zaurbek]

How does Iskandar himself correct and hit with high accuracy? The speed of the ship is small - for her, such a correction is quite enough for herself.

[_Ugene_]

Iskander works only on fixed targets, set coordinates at the start and fly, a small yaw along the course to confuse missile defense

[Zaurbek]

No. An image of the target, coordinates is laid in the head, and he can do all this without satellites ...

[_Ugene_]

target image, coordinates

motionless

[Zaurbek]

Including ... but it turns out that mobile.

[_Ugene_]

if we are talking about Iskander and not about Dagger, then only motionless

[Sergey-8848]

Now there will be less interceptors, or what? The MiG-31 cannot be stamped as quickly as in the 50s, the MiG-15 or SU-9. Well, we’ll be more of a slugging of a possible adversary, but what about the usual daily air defense? We are not going to wet the enemies with every triad for every challenge, we must have plenty of non-exotic (that is, always) weapons. Nobody wants a full-scale conflict, so all nuclear weapons are in the cage, and in the meantime, other reconnaissance and drones are skating along the borders with might and main. Is it again, as in the 60s, that we will wait for balloons?

[rotor]

You look and Tu-160 will be able to launch Sarmat, like the MiG-31 Iskander.

[ANCIENT]

The best joke of the month "warhead missile Dagger modified Iskander missile" !!! You can’t make up more nonsense! They look like, but these are completely different rockets !!! Iskander will not give the necessary speed parameters, it just falls apart in flight! Overloads that the Dagger experiences during the maneuver Iskander will not withstand and close !!! The similarity of one missile to another is not a fact of using it as the basis for another missile !!!

[izja]

They threw out the radar, finished the star, added the letter K, in a word, modernization.

[Wild_grey_wolf]

Well, how did you want the only way and with that logic. This is the truth of life. . . . not a comic book.

[Kuroneko]

increased the amount of fuel for a longer stay in the air and thoroughly altered the cockpit, installing a control system for new weapons and new communication equipment for receiving target designation signals.

Did you forget to add this, our blue and white “partner”? ^ _ ^
For the aviation missile system (and the “Dagger" - exactly complex of two components) - yes, this is modernization. And increasing the effectiveness of this complex.

[izja]

Quote: _Ugene_

The Dagger complex is capable of hitting aircraft carriers, destroyers and cruisers of a potential enemy.

It seems like a ballistic missile and not a cruise missile, how can it be controlled to defeat moving targets?

Do not ask such questions, do not choose from under the caps.

[izja]

Quote: ANCIENT

The best joke of the month "warhead missile Dagger modified Iskander missile" !!! You can’t make up more nonsense! They look like, but these are completely different rockets !!! Iskander will not give the necessary speed parameters, it just falls apart in flight! Overloads that the Dagger experiences during the maneuver Iskander will not withstand and close !!! The similarity of one missile to another is not a fact of using it as the basis for another missile !!!

Tales for children are good, rocket 1 is the same, rockets like sweets are not made in 1 day, the iskander is a modified and tested solution, the only difference is that they removed the excess part that accelerates it, in the case of a dagger, the acceleration is due to the plane. However, as soon as you ask the question of how to aim at an object, everyone hides somewhere.

[ANCIENT]

So everything that you write, you write under the dictation of your special services !!! And yet, these are completely different rockets !!! Unlike you, I know what I'm writing !!!

[100502]

A Jew received 30 coins of silver, how do you eat fat in 404?

[bk316]

Fairy tales for children

Tales for children is that a multi-stage rocket can be unscrewed, something that remains to be dropped from the plane and "it" flies.

[kit88]

Quote: izja

However, as soon as you ask the question of how to aim at an object, everyone hides somewhere.

Yes, because no one knows. The weapon is new. Units know this, but they most likely receive secrecy in the first form, and will not write anything here.
What is there to be surprised, this is the army, not the show media, where it was invented yesterday, and the day before yesterday, the entire Internet in all its details tells about the invention.

[Separ DNR]

Quote: izja

as soon as you ask the question how is targeting an object all hidden somewhere.

Who will tell you SUCH ...

[cats]

Quote: izja

However, as soon as you ask the question of how to aim at an object, everyone hides somewhere.

Excuse me, are you tired of living?

[voyaka uh]

By inertial coordinates and / or GLONASS.
They are entered into memory before starting.
Therefore, if the object is motionless, then it will be hit.

[Igor V]

MiG has powerful potential - 31st! So many years, and allows for modernization. Great were the designers.

[Wedmak]

in pilot combat operations are ten MiG-31K. They are based in Akhtubinsk (Astrakhan region) and are already on alert ....
The Dagger complex is capable of hitting aircraft carriers, destroyers and cruisers of a potential enemy.

In the Astrakhan region right here dofiga aircraft carriers, destroyers, and especially the cruisers of the potential enemy .... nowhere to spit. For some reason I thought that they would be based either in the Far East or in the Baltic. Although, for learning and practicing the application of the Caspian, of course it is. Where else to take the cruiser as a target ... well, at least a barge with the same size.

[brr1]

And this is for the Mediterranean so far. There now the most interesting is happening.

[NEXUS]

I am interested in what modification of the MIG-31 was taken as a basis for the development of the MIG-31K? MIG-31-BM or MIG-31F?

[Е2 - Е4]

Mig-31K can rightfully be called the doomsday weapon. Today, for the fleets of NATO and the USA, the sword of Damocles will constantly hang !!! Sami asked to get here

[Santa bear]

Mig 31 is selected as a carrier not because there are many of them. And not because stupid people did not guess on the Tu22 to hang a rocket. Logically, the Mig 31 is the only aircraft that, in terms of speed, climb, is suitable for the role of the first stage to launch a hypersonic missile. Well, Tu22 will not accelerate with all the desire to the desired speed. And so, it will not quickly go to the launch area. And the fact that the radar had to be removed is also understandable. All the same, the plane is not rubber and not a bomber, it is necessary to sacrifice something for the sake of installing special equipment. In fact, Mig31k is a highly specialized complex created with one goal in mind: to be able to use a hypersonic project. Received target designation, launched the dagger. All. Worked, return to base. Air combat is the task of cover aircraft. And he essentially does not need a radar.

[Scalpel]

And who told you that the launch takes place at maximum speed?

[Santa bear]

And I did not say this, most likely the launch takes place on supersonic. But gaining the necessary speed Mig31 is still easier and faster than Tu22. As well as preparation for departure, the possibility of transfer and basing at airfields throughout the country .. And the cost of an hour of flight time. All these parameters are preferable for MiG

[voyaka uh]

"Well, Tu22 will not accelerate with all the desire to the desired speed" ///

And an interceptor with a heavy missile and an increased fuel supply
will accelerate? Do not make me laugh.
Even the Su-27 with all the missiles and fuel will not even pull out half
from its maximum afterburner speed. With full load he
flies no faster than the "penguin" F-35

[NN52]

voyaka uh

Do not take this article seriously ... I wrote above.
And about the allegedly increased fuel supply ...

[Alexey-74]

They need more. And so I am sure that the "Dagger" is reliable as Iskander himself ......

[brr1]

Quote: Santa Bear

In fact, Mig31k is a highly specialized complex created for one purpose - to be able to use a hypersonic project

Or rather, to deceive the system and the INF Treaty

[Wedmak]

Quote: _Ugene_

Only when it enters the dense atmosphere.

and do you think the dagger is not included in the dense layers of the atmosphere? or something they shoot at the moon? you write that the speed drops to 4-5М, then during this braking about the atmosphere there will be hellish heating, in any case at hypersonic speeds there will be heating several thousand degrees

Even on the lander of the Union there are portholes. And through them, the plasma is clearly visible during the descent. The trick is that they are on the side and the plasma does not hit them.

that's just the point, what is the use of optics if it looks sideways and not in the direction of the rocket?

Composites can not stand it.

the ICBM burns a huge layer of heat-resistant coating on the warhead, there can be no talk about any radio transparency.

200 liters of alcohol for a reason.

Well, yes, take a ton of alcohol, there are also places and stock by weight as much as you like.
I see here the only option - the receiving antenna at the tail of the rocket and the correction according to the signal from the satellite

Heating is a matter of cooling methods, materials, and speed modes. So they somehow decided.
Maybe you’re right, there’s no optics, it’s a correction system, but it is induced through the RSSS. Well, I just suggested optics.
Why shouldn't the heat-resistant fairing be radiolucent? Again, the temperature jump is not so long.
Why do you exclude radar? Even if the primary coordinates are given by a satellite / plane / ground, a rocket needs a hit with an accuracy of ten meters. Here, either optics or short-wave radar. Decent speed, correction from the satellite, I think, is impossible.

[Xscorpion]

Quote: aszzz888

Currently, ten MiG-31K are in trial combat operation.

So we need to stamp them more !!!

There are more than a hundred of them in storage. The matter is not in stamping, but in modernization of existing ones.

Quote: voyaka uh

And it seemed strange to me. With a heavy rocket he’s all the same
especially high speed does not develop. A bomber would pull two
missiles and could launch them at the same speed.
Without radar and pylons, the MiG-31 missiles are completely defenseless against
enemy aircraft. That is, deep into the enemy’s territory, do not send him ...
Most likely, they simply save the MiG-31 from disposal, so that they still serve.

Why should he go deep? The range of the AUG do not tell me? We are not going to attack, our business is defense. MiG-31k will not even leave its territory.

Quote: Vladimir 5

Means of destruction, taking into account the enemy’s counteractions, should be duplicated as the enemy’s counter-capabilities increase and should consist of 10 or more multiplier by means. It is still desirable to introduce a system of adjustments to targets in salvo applications, and the more, the more likely the lesions. One Mig-31K will probably be detected and even destroyed before the approach, here are a dozen, so the probability of a breakthrough is increased, the opponents are also not born ... So, at least 10 Mig-31K to go to the AUG ...

For 2000 km? .On its territory? Why will it be destroyed? For reference, even in the most favorable situation for itself, USAA will not use more than 7 AUGs against us at the same time, they will have many problems in the world without us. They will not expose other fronts. A maximum of Britons may still set one AUG against us at the same time with them. For 2 Mig for each AUG for the eyes. They will not fight alone.

Quote: Alex777

What my colleague wrote is similar to the tactics of using naval aviation (Tu-22) in the USSR.
As for the Daggers - I don’t understand one thing - why no one considers the number of MIG-31 that we can now fly into the air and their resource. Well, the idea to remove the radar from the plane at all - looks IMHO dubious. Kamikaze plane work?

Why is an interceptor radar for an aircraft operating on surface targets?

Quote: Incvizitor

It looks like the fighter-interceptor was turned into a carrier aircraft an OTK like a bomber.

In principle, you are right, but not quite. It is no longer an aircraft interceptor, it is a ship interceptor.

Quote: cariperpaint

And the interceptors are no longer needed huh?)))

No one intercepts the interceptors. Airplanes from storage. Do not worry, these are essentially different planes now.

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

The radar was removed from the aircraft, the amount of fuel was increased for a longer stay in the air, and the cabin was thoroughly reworked, installing a new weapon control system and a new communications equipment for receiving target indication signals.

According to the Ministry of Defense, the mass and dimensions of the Dagger rocket led to a change in the center of mass of the aircraft, so the pilots had to be retrained under the new conditions.

Why did Radar have to be removed from Mig-31? Did he weigh so much?

A lot. Above wrote.

Quote: bk316

Fairy tales for children

Tales for children is that a multi-stage rocket can be unscrewed, something that remains to be dropped from the plane and "it" flies.

So you have not finished school. Therefore, for you it is a fairy tale.

Quote: Wedmak

in pilot combat operations are ten MiG-31K. They are based in Akhtubinsk (Astrakhan region) and are already on alert ....
The Dagger complex is capable of hitting aircraft carriers, destroyers and cruisers of a potential enemy.

In the Astrakhan region right here dofiga aircraft carriers, destroyers, and especially the cruisers of the potential enemy .... nowhere to spit. For some reason I thought that they would be based either in the Far East or in the Baltic. Although, for learning and practicing the application of the Caspian, of course it is. Where else to take the cruiser as a target ... well, at least a barge with the same size.

Take a compass and outline at least a couple of thousand kilometers from the Astrakhan region, taking into account the fact that daggers will be launched right above the airfield, and if you give it reality, imagine that the plane is still able to fly in certain directions for some time. I don’t know, just to assume that the plane can fly, and not just take off in the air. Maybe this is of course difficult for you of course.

[Old26]

Quote: venik

if the rocket has a range of more than 2 km ???

Rocket? This complex has a range of approximately 2000 km.

Quote: Wedmak

The speed is not that visible. Under 3000, neither the Tu-22М3 nor the Tu-160 will accelerate. And the moment with the preparation for the departure - the faster the better.

Do you seriously think that with such a suspension the MiG will fly at a speed of 3000?

[Wedmak]

What with such a MiG suspension will fly at speed in 3000?

I wrote "under 3000", that is, a little less than 3000, if you have not noticed. No, of course, he does not need to fly at such a speed. He just needs to rise higher, accelerate to H-th speed (even if afterburner) and drop the rocket. I mean, the MUSCLES are apparently not able to do this better than the MiG, which is why they chose it. Plus, a dozen of the best indicators in his direction ...
TTX is closed, how do we know the speed of the carrier at startup? Well, let 2500, anyway, this is more than the maximum speed of both 22 and 160.

[shirkoled]

God forbid !!! Our wolf calves eat !!!

[Old26]

Quote: _Ugene_

In the USSR there were ballistic anti-ship missiles, guidance was carried out by satellites and aircraft, but there the accuracy of the offset was compensated by a low-power nuclear warhead, here you need a direct hit and it is not clear with the guidance - they removed from the instant-31

Low power? As far as I remember, the R-27K had a head with a capacity of 1 MT

Quote: rotor

You look and Tu-160 will be able to launch Sarmat, like the MiG-31 Iskander.

Can. Only if you ask him well about it .....

Quote: Wedmak

What with such a MiG suspension will fly at speed in 3000?

I wrote "under 3000", that is, a little less than 3000, if you have not noticed. No, of course, he does not need to fly at such a speed. He just needs to rise higher, accelerate to H-th speed (even if afterburner) and drop the rocket. I mean, the MUSCLES are apparently not able to do this better than the MiG, which is why they chose it. Plus, a dozen of the best indicators in his direction ...
TTX is closed, how do we know the speed of the carrier at startup? Well, let 2500, anyway, this is more than the maximum speed of both 22 and 160.

Why should he accelerate at all, that's what is not clear. On the rocket itself is a rocket engine. Frankly, a plane is accelerating or hanging in the air. But the question of using the TU-22M3 or TU-160 is the most promising from the point of view that they can take it to the bomb bay, and not one

[Urantian]

Ten ??? .., this is not about anything ... For Moldova, for example, this amount may have mattered ... but for Russia it is ridiculous ...