Indian Reflections: How to contain Pakistan and China with the help of Su-30?

The Indian newspaper The Tribune comes out with material on how India intends to counter the "Chinese and Pakistani threats." It is reported that the Indian Air Force are going to increase military exercises over the Himalayas. At the same time, during one of the recent exercises, the main goal was to block the channel for supplying the troops of the conditional enemy on the approaches to the Indian borders. With this edition The Tribune immediately reveals all the maps of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of India, instead of the word "conditional" using the term "Chinese."

The Indian Defense Ministry decided to reanimate the concept of two fronts. We are talking about a situation in which the Indian military command "sees" an attack on India from both China and Pakistan, and at the same time. It should be recalled here that recently these three countries (besides the Russian Federation and a number of other countries) are members of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO), but the rhetoric of the Indian Defense Ministry is such that neither China nor Pakistan are still considered partners in the military sphere.

The Indian Ministry of Defense notes that at the moment, the People's Republic of China possesses approximately 2,1 thousand of combat aircraft, including fifth-generation fighters. The Vice-Marshal of the Indian Air Force, Manmohan Bahadur, notes that while it is possible to determine the J-20 in the air, but India may have problems if the Chinese begin to produce these planes in large series and use as the main threat from the air. Recall that not so long ago from India came the message that the Su-30 Indian Air Force spotted a Chinese “invisible” fighter.

The following is a comparison of the number of fourth-generation planes from the Indian Air Force and the Chinese Air Force. The Indian Defense Ministry estimates that India has 240 and India has 600. Plus, the problem with FGFA, a joint Russian-Indian project of an 5 generation aircraft, is once again reminded. In New Delhi, they believe that they "have lost too much time" on cooperation, which "did not lead to the creation of a full-fledged fighter of a new generation."

Indian Air Force exercises were carried out not only over the Himalayas near the Chinese border, but also in other parts of the country. Thus, bombing was carried out (and missile firing) at the landfills in the Ladakh region (within the state of Jammu and Kashmir) - near the Pakistani border. It is noted that reconnaissance aircraft were involved in air maneuvers in addition to the Su-30. The possibility of round-the-clock strikes against ground targets with repeated rotation of squadrons was worked out.

The military command of India believes that the maneuvers were successful, but at the moment they have revealed the following problem: in the case of real hostilities in the north-east and north-west of the country, new means aviation, which are mostly Russian Su-30s, may not be enough.

Comments

[NEXUS]

There will be no war between Pakistan, China and India. These are three nuclear countries. What kind of war FIG?

[askort154]

.... Recall that not so long ago there were reports from India that the Su-30 Indian Air Force spotted a Chinese “invisible fighter.”


But this, caresses the ear!

[NEXUS]

Quote: askort154

But this, caresses the ear!

So Bars and Irbis quite see themselves stealth. I think that Indians will soon start to buy SU-30 in addition to the SU-35.

[Muvka]

I suppose they would have already bought it, but they need technologies that our Su-35 will definitely not transmit.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Muvka

I suppose they would have already bought it, but they need technologies that our Su-35 will definitely not transmit.

Technology will not be transferred, but the Indians need to replenish the fighter fleet. China buys the SU-35 and does not vomit out about the technology, but tries to create something. Indians, I think, will not be too shaky about the SU-35.

[Muvka]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: Muvka

I suppose they would have already bought it, but they need technologies that our Su-35 will definitely not transmit.

Technology will not be transferred, but the Indians need to replenish the fighter fleet. China buys the SU-35 and does not vomit out about the technology, but tries to create something. Indians, I think, will not be too shaky about the SU-35.

I still think they want a Su-35 with stealth and more recent electronics. And the modification can be quickly developed and will be relatively inexpensive.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Muvka

I still think they want a Su-35 with stealth and more recent electronics

This is already the SU-57.
After two or three years, the whole thing will go to the MIG-35 series, and not the fact that the Indians will not be interested in them.

[Muvka]

Well, not really Su-57. Thrust on the engine stage 35 on 1, replace the PFAR with the AFAR and cover it with a radar absorbing coating and it will be almost the 5th generation. Both cheap and fast.

[NEXUS]

Quote: Muvka

Thrust on stage 35 engine 1

The question is why? The engine of the first stage, as well as the second for the SU-57, let's say it is smaller in diameter than the SU-30/35. Perhaps, on the basis of the engine of the second stage, they will create something for the SU-35.

Quote: Muvka

replace PFAR with AFAR

Again, the question is why? Pfar is no worse than AFAR ... Afar should be installed on the SU-30 and SU-35 in one version, like a smart casing, in the manner of the SU-57. That is, not one AFAR but at least 5.

Quote: Muvka

radar absorb

Do you think that the 35th does not have such coverage?

Quote: Muvka

and there will be almost 5 generation.

When launching a ROFAR series, and installing such a radar on the SU-35, all the advantages of 5-generation stealth fighters will disappear and the super-maneuverability, arsenal and professionalism of flyers will remain in the dry residue.

[Yarhann]

with external weapons suspension than do not cover any stealth will not.

[TermNachTer]

Well, why? Were you going to transfer something on the promising fighter? It is possible something on Su - 35.

[_Jack_]

So Bars and Irbis quite see themselves stealth.

Of course, only from what distance do they see them? and from what, in your opinion, stealth sees a Su-30 with an EPR of about 10 sq.m.?

[NEXUS]

Quote: _Jack_

Of course, only from what distance do they see them? and from what, in your opinion, stealth sees a Su-30 with an EPR of about 10 sq.m.?

To begin with, when the arsenal is suspended on external pylons, the stealth is no longer such. Second ... the stealth is not always in flight in its most advantageous position in relation to the enemy radar. Next, consider the arsenal. And here everything is not so simple ... the most long-range AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile of the F-35 has the same range of 105 km ... and Irbis sees such a target as the F-35 at a distance of 90-100 km At the same time, the arsenal of our aircraft is much richer and the arm is much longer.
At the same time, it must be taken into account that such radars as Irbis are modernized and improved.

[_Jack_]

To begin with, when suspending an arsenal on external pylons, the stealth is no longer such.

Of course, they do not know and do not take this into account. What do you think if there is nothing on the external pylons? Pray?

Irbis sees such a target as the F-35 at a distance of 90-100 km.

Did they tell you secretly at the General Staff?

the most long-range AIM-120 AMRAAM air-to-air missile of the F-35 of the same, has a range of 105 km.

Firstly, the latest modification of the AIM-120 AMRAAM has a range of 100 miles or 160 kilometers, which is already enough. Secondly, they now have a new LREW project in operation, a year later they promise a new long-range missile with much better performance, it is foolish to doubt that this will happen.

[NEXUS]

Quote: _Jack_

Did they tell you secretly at the General Staff?

This is official data, dear. What does the General Staff have to do with it?

Quote: _Jack_

Firstly, the latest modification of the AIM-120 AMRAAM has a range of 100 miles or 160 kilometers, which is already enough.

Dear, if you are talking about the modification of the AIM-120D, then it has not yet been adopted. In addition, I repeat, the development of our radars also does not stand still. And in real combat, target detection will be not only the forces of a fighter’s radar, but also Avax type aircraft, ground-based radars, etc. ... and now in the arsenal ... even if the mattresses finish this rocket, we have the R-37 and on its basis, the KS-172 is being developed ... so your "enough" does not dance at all.

[_Jack_]

This is official data, dear. And what about the General Staff?

this is not official data, but the assumptions of couch experts (official data is for targets with an EPR of 0,5 sq.m.), at what distance does Irbis really see the F-35, it’s infa of such secrecy that we won’t recognize it for a very long time.

And in a real battle, target detection will be not only the fighter’s radar, but also Avax type aircraft, ground-based radars, etc.

Compare how many modern Avaks we have and how many adversaries we have, wherever you spit, everything is not in our favor
Why did we switch to American stealth? An article about the discovery of Chinese J-20s, and they, apparently, with stealth, are even worse than our su-57. I would not be surprised if the J-20 Irbis sees at much greater distances.

[NEXUS]

Quote: _Jack_

this is not official data, but the assumptions of couch experts,

Thesis ala said, he did not understand what. There is public access to the data.

Quote: _Jack_

Compare how many modern Avaks we have and how many adversaries we have,

Compare how many different radars we have, including the radar air defense systems, after and talk.

[_Jack_]

Thesis ala said, he did not understand what. There is public access to the data.

a reference to the data from the manufacturer Irbis for targets with an EPR of 0,005 sq. m. at least

[NEXUS]

Quote: _Jack_

a reference to the data from the manufacturer Irbis for targets with an EPR of 0,005 sq.

Wow ... why not 0,00000000005 m2? You mean, take a word to believe the data on the EPR of the lizard and the F-35, and the fact that our PFAR sees them at a distance of 100 km is not ... well, well ...

[TermNachTer]

Dear, you yourself believe in the EPR - 5 square meters. cm.? Here you don’t even need secrets from the General Staff, a school physics textbook is enough, but it is possible for technical schools of radio engineering specialty.

[Muvka]

Quote: _Jack_

This is official data, dear. And what about the General Staff?

this is not official data, but the assumptions of couch experts (official data is for targets with an EPR of 0,5 sq.m.), at what distance does Irbis really see the F-35, it’s infa of such secrecy that we won’t recognize it for a very long time.

And in a real battle, target detection will be not only the fighter’s radar, but also Avax type aircraft, ground-based radars, etc.

Compare how many modern Avaks we have and how many adversaries we have, wherever you spit, everything is not in our favor
Why did we switch to American stealth? An article about the discovery of Chinese J-20s, and they, apparently, with stealth, are even worse than our su-57. I would not be surprised if the J-20 Irbis sees at much greater distances.

Compare how many AWACs they have and how many 40H6E we have.

[Mayor]

This can be a key point in the confrontation with the pro opponent. The effective time of AWACS, which directly depends on the number of LA AWACS, and the level of development of radio electronic suppression and protection technologies (whatever you say, microelectronics).

[NEXUS]

Quote: Mayr

Effective time AWACS,

And the work of such aircraft as Chopper.

[Yarhann]

you don’t understand the tactics of using subtle hawks at all.
the whole point of the same f22 is always to fly in radio silence mode and only listen to the air in passive (powerful sources of radio waves such as ground-based radars, AWACS planes, etc. will be noticed over several hundred km) + the operation of an optoelectronic detection system (up to 50 km). Based on the information received, the aircraft will perform a combat mission. What tasks can be set - well, first of all, is the launch of anti-radar and long-range missiles on AWACS aircraft. But taking into account the fact that there are not so many Americans who are likely to have AWACS aircraft, and there are enough ground-based air defense systems, it is precisely the AGM-88 HARM missiles that are the main means of attack on ground-based air defense systems - their launch range is about 100 km.
If our hawks will conduct an active search for enemy stealth aircraft, they will unmask themselves in advance and most likely will not find a stealth aircraft - that, in turn, will take a maneuver of approach to attack the rear hemisphere for guiding missiles with optoelectronic equipment and using missiles with infrared seekers.
Although, in a sudden attack, for example, from the flank, f22 can turn on a radar for guiding medium-range missiles - yes, he will unmask himself - but there will be surprise on his side and with an equal number of planes they will emerge victorious from the battle.
That is, the use of long-range missiles by stealth aircraft is unlikely - at least in an air battle for air superiority.
Well, and most importantly, the conditions for conducting military operations - if it is on neutral territory, then the advantage will be the position of the one who will use AWACS aircraft and here the stealth will be in a more advantageous situation, if in the area of ​​its ground defense it is natural that all the advantages of the stealth are not leveled because the search and target designation for our hawks will issue ground-based air defense while they will pass in search of an adversary using optoelectronic systems and electronic intelligence systems.
That is why the main objective of the enemy in the event of intrusion will be precisely the destruction of ground-based powerful means of detecting aircraft and AWACS aircraft.

[voyaka uh]

And with what lenses is it interesting to know?
In training flights, all stealth attach lenses,
increasing ESR to “normal” 10 m2

[_Ugene_]

So Bars and Irbis quite see themselves stealth.

so where is the link to the manufacturer’s statement on stealth detection range?

[Topotun]

It may not be, but it may be. There is in our reality, well, a very "kind" wizard, under a star-striped handkerchief. A couple of unnecessary provocations, a few promises to "stand up" and "support" and away we go .....

[g1v2]

Ordinary. According to all forecasts and estimates, Southeast Asia will be the main economic driver of the 21st century. Most of the production of the whole world is already concentrated there. If you look at the share of the global production of PPPs, then China alone has 24 percent of the global production. USA, which in second place - only 5. The difference is 10 times. India is in third place with about 2,5 percent. We are fourth with 7,6. But immediately behind us is a dense group from Germany, Japan and Indonesia, they have from 3,9 to 3 percent. Indonesia has excellent chances to overtake the Germans, Japanese and us. That is, only India, China, Indonesia and Japan account for a total of 3,6 percent of global industrial production. But there is still Vietnam, Pakistan, Malaysia, KOREA. Plus us. That is, more than half of the industrial enterprises are concentrated in the region and then the share will only grow. Hong Kong, Shanghai and Tokyo - are becoming more powerful financial world centers. The United States is well aware that if nothing is done, then the center of power, and therefore decision-making, will move there. Plus, against this background, the internal problems of the American economy and its huge debts are aggravated. No purely economic measures will fix this. Well, perhaps for a hundred years Americans tighten their belts and only pay debts.
So the solution can be only one. America needs to set fire to Asia. Destroy and rob competitors, nullify a significant part of the public debt, return production to the United States, make money on military supplies and impose indemnities on the losers. And they set fire to Asia in two places. In BV, they provoke a war between the Shiite axis and the Israel-Saudi Arabia alliance, and in Southeast Asia - between the alliances of the PRC-Pakistan and India-Vietnam-Taiwan. With the subsequent inclusion in the war of Japan, Australia and Indonesia. That is why they are pitted. Hence, such frequent visits by US government officials, the militarization of the Saudis, India and Vietnam, and large-scale deliveries of American weapons to the region.
Hence the provocations of the Americans of the summit with North Korea, when they make provocative statements and conduct exercises right before the meeting with Kim. The region should glow and there should not be any reduction in the level of tension.

[voyaka uh]

Americans trade great (tens of trillions of dollars)
with all developed countries of Asia. And they continue to develop them.
And there is no reason to destroy them and set fire to something.
India joins fast-growing club
Asian countries, respectively, America has developed interest intensively
trade with her.

[g1v2]

The transfer of American industry to Asia is a problem for the United States. In recent years alone, the United States has lost 5 million jobs that China received. At one time, American companies transferred production to Southeast Asia in order to drastically reduce the cost of production. Now it’s so simple they can no longer be withdrawn.
A negative trade balance of 650-800 billion dollars is not normal. The result is the states of the "rust belt." The national debt is largely a consequence of such imbalances. And American politicians are well aware of this. Trump and his rhetoric did not arise from scratch. Therefore, it leaves various free trade zones because they lead to deindustrialization of states and a huge loss of jobs. And the consequence of this is the destruction of infrastructure in the American outback. California and the east coast are not all the United States.
In general, if you want to understand how it looks at the grassroots level - listen to what Trump says at his speeches. Well, watch American movies. They best convey the feelings of the population. And compare them with films of 15-20 years ago.

[voyaka uh]

"These are three nuclear countries. What kind of FIG war?" ////

How what? - conventional, of course.
There were already ordinary wars between India and Pakistan at a time when
both countries were guaranteed to possess nuclear weapons.
They hold nuclear weapons as a last resort: if they lose sharply in the war.
And so - why?

[Incvizitor]

There will be no war between Pakistan, China and India.

Well, the army still needs to be kept in good shape, it’s not just right to count on a nuclear club.

[Pimply]

Quote: NEXUS

There will be no war between Pakistan, China and India. These are three nuclear countries. What kind of war FIG?

Already been and more than once

[NEXUS]

Quote: Pimply

Already been and more than once

I know ... but I think now everything has changed slightly. But pitting these three countries is very much in the US's favor. And no matter what the scenario is, nuclear or not.
In fact, the mattresses are still playing on our field. At the same time, setting its own rules. Once upon a time, such games quickly ended when the USSR missiles appeared in Cuba at their underbelly.

[Strips]

however, the following problem has now been exposed

And here just

[Imobile]

They have already decided to buy aircraft from the United States. We must stop attacking India and we must ask ourselves a question What should we do to get India to buy airplanes from us?

[mihey]

So the Indians do not hide the answer to your question: "Give us the technology." And such and such technologies can also be presented to China, or re-allowed NATO specialists to their facilities.

[izja]

Quote: Muvka

I suppose they would have already bought it, but they need technologies that our Su-35 will definitely not transmit.

What technologies :)) instead of one booth 2, is it already technology? ) essentially 1 and the same plane.

[Lesorub]

problem with FGFA - a joint Russian-Indian project of the 5th generation aircraft. In New Delhi, they believe that they "lost too much time" in cooperation, which "did not lead to the creation of a full-fledged new generation fighter."

Hindus are whining again, they could themselves))) take and make a 5th generation airplane from scratch)), but no country is doomed to buy high-tech weapons (we, Europeans or Statesmen), because there are not enough "brains"))

[faiver]

it may be enough brains, but only the hands behind the brains do not keep up well or do not grow from there

[_Jack_]

NEXUS,

You mean by word, believe the data on the EPR of the lizard and the F-35, and the fact that our PFAR sees them at a distance of 100 km is not

So they came to where I started. Firstly, the real F-35 EPR is unknown, secondly, there is no data from the manufacturer Irbis on targets with low EPR, only on targets with EPR about 0,5 square meters. m. So where did you get that "Irbis sees the F-35 from 100 km?", where is the official data? The chatter is empty. And you ignored my question - where is the link to of. data "that our PFAR sees them at a distance of 100 km"?
Some couch experts write all kinds of nonsense, others, like you, joyfully repeat them.

[nikoliski]

More missiles with nuclear warheads and you will be deterred.