Not so they are inconspicuous. Su-30MKI of India tracked the Chinese "invisible"

The Indian Su-30MKI radar has detected and tracked fifth-generation Chinese fighters Chengdu J-20, which flew over Tibet, according to Indian Defense Research Wing.

In January, Chinese airplanes deployed on airbases in the border areas of 2018 practiced flying over mountain areas with J-10 and J-11 fighters. Indian pilots on Russian Su-30MKI aircraft observed invisible aircraft maneuvers from their airspace

Radar "Dry" sees them. New Chinese planes are not so invisible. Their detection does not require any special technology, J-20 recognized and conventional radar

- noted the commander of the Indian Air Force Arup Shah.

The Chehgdu J-20 is a fifth-generation Chinese multipurpose fighter created using low-visibility technology. Many technical solutions of the aircraft are repeated by the American F-22 and F-35 fighters. The fighter was put into service in 2017 year, built 9 prototypes and two pre-production samples.

Su-30KI - a version of the Russian heavy fighter Su-30 created for India. The aircraft is equipped with engines with a deflectable thrust vector and radar H011 "Leopard" with a phased antenna array. The radar has a high resolution and performance, it can direct missiles at air and ground targets, highlight targets for slave fighters. The Indian Air Force has 240 aircraft of this type.

Comments

[Aaron Zawi]

The Chinese said this was crap and their cars didn’t even approach the specified area. And whoever lies there only Buddha or Shiva know.

[Logall]

Or do I get along say the Chinese? Invisibility is Chinese! From Amer take an example ... Or from the Israelites ...

[maxim947]

The Chinese said this was crap and their cars didn’t even approach the specified area. And whoever lies there only Buddha or Shiva know

In your tone, causticity is visible, why would it?
And so, the rivalry of radars, radar detectors, stealth technologies, etc. will be constant and their development will accordingly go parallel to each other, however, like much more.

[Thrall]

In any strange situation, start dancing

[Shurik70]

From where could the Indians understand that they saw exactly the J-20? Did you see the telescope?
I don’t know how it is with the Chinese invisibility, but in any case, China will not report where its airplane is flying. So the Indians were a bit lying.

[Mayor]

With 100 women works ...

[S_Baykala]

Quote: Thrall

In any strange situation, start dancing

"7: 40" (if they can)

[Evgeny Strygin]

here I see Jews Jews only in the comments and teach

[VO3A]

I really like how the first comments usually lead the discussion in a non-constructive direction ... That's the debate about radars, replaces the topic of the main detection systems on board the invisible ... If the plane includes a radar for detection. he is already in a losing position .... Everyone sees him, but he just searches for the target, and may not find it, for example, if it is invisible .... Therefore, passive detection systems are used on 5th generation airplanes, and optical electronic .... And here our SU-57 is not the first, alas ... We have an option, but you don’t know it doesn’t work .... By the way, all 4th-generation aircraft can actively use electronic warfare, but in this case .that does not save them ... On 5-kM EW systems, they are turned on after detection to ensure flight .... This is for those EW fans who sculpt "deity" from them ... Well, they found out, but there is no more information - article fake with kookid ... Provocation for an exchange of views, what is beneficial to the site ... And the fact that it is empty and useless is the second ....

[Boa kaa]

Quote: VO3A

On 5-kah electronic warfare systems are turned on after detection to ensure flight .... This is for those fans of electronic warfare who sculpt them into a "deity" ...

This is something new in the tactics of combat use of aviation !!!
Neither you masking, covering up, leading away interference ... just - turned it on and you are floundering! But what about jamming aircraft in the TG of strike aircraft?
Well, damn it, and cutting you in your free judgments on the subject of BP Avug !!! But the main thing is peremptory !!! UH !!!!

[Russia]

Definitely, everyone knows everything, but they hide it from each other. And this awareness
is part of classified information.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Logall

Or do I get along say the Chinese? Invisibility is Chinese! From Amer take an example ... Or from the Israelites ...

And in general, all this crap with "invisibles" was developed in the bowels of the KGB-GRU of the USSR and thrown to the Yankees, who have thrown trillions of greenery into the development of this myth.

[jjj]

Quote: Piramidon

all this crap with "invisibles" was developed in the bowels of the KGB-GRU of the USSR

And not only this one.
A number sounded yesterday. The Americans have already spent a trillion dollars on the fifth generation fighter 1 project. We spent billions in dollars on the fifth generation fighter 6-7 project

[freddyk]

jjj, So yes, the only difference between us is that we count every penny. And Americans can afford not to count grandmothers at all. So who should laugh at whom?

[Sergey39]

What we spent on the fifth generation is for looking away. Our UFOs fly around the world and no one can still catch them

[Peter Rusin]

like submarines, they are looking for the whole world but they can’t find it))))))

[S_Baykala]

Peter!
They still cannot catch Losharik, but Poseidon is next in line (on duty?).

[S_Baykala]

Quote: Piramidon

Quote: Logall

Or do I get along say the Chinese? Invisibility is Chinese! From Amer take an example ... Or from the Israelites ...

And in general, all this crap with "invisibles" was developed in the bowels of the KGB-GRU of the USSR and thrown to the Yankees, who have thrown trillions of greenery into the development of this myth.

Stepan!
Vague doubts torment me: this is actually the case. As in the 15-16 century (for example), in a collision in a field, first troops will win the battle in "camouflage" (just in "dirty clothes"), due to surprise (with proper use). But then (when everyone else knows what to look at), the effect of surprise is no longer there.
And, given that in the same hypothetical case, the opponent may have a spyglass (due to good technical development), for the “innovator” there comes a generally sad “tryndets”.

[Solomon Kane]

It's like with a Chinese EM engine, EmDrive ...
Our and European scientists (Wh from Dresden University) have proved that the statement of the Chinese about creating an engine that violates the laws of physics is a fiction ....
Alexander!

[Pirogov]

Quote: Logall

Or do I get along say the Chinese? Invisibility is Chinese! From Amer take an example ... Or from the Israelites ...

Israel has the best FU 35, because it’s free ............)

[Piramidon]

Quote: Pirogov

Israel has the best FU 35, because it’s free ............)

Now Aron will be drawn and will not leave stone upon stone from your comment.

[figwam]

In peacetime, Luneberg lenses are installed on fifth-generation aircraft to increase the EPR. And on the J-5 it is also installed.

[Muvka]

Where did you read that? And yes, is there a photo, not a render?

[figwam]

Quote: Muvka

Where did you read that? And yes, is there a photo, not a render?

So it is known from the time of F-22. This was done so that the enemy could not recognize the real EPR of the aircraft and accordingly prepare for this.

[Muvka]

Well, but judging by the way the Chinese are frostbite, that they say they were not there at all, this leads to certain thoughts. That these lenses were not there.

[Hire]

How can the Chinese know this?

The Sukhoi radar sees them. New Chinese planes are not so invisible.

The Indians perked up.

[svp67]

Quote: Hire

The Indians perked up.

And doubted some of the statements of the Americans. Since they claim that this new "Chinese stealth" is more invisible than the Russian Su-57. And now the Indians can compare something, because when they created a joint aircraft with us, they got some information.

[Hire]

Sergey, welcome

Quote: svp67

And doubted some of the statements of the Americans.

Practice is the criterion of truth.

[Mountain shooter]

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

[Seaflame]

Often, some objects, over a sufficiently long period of time, can be secretive and "invisible", for example, submarines. It is clear that the physical environment is different, but nevertheless, the desire for stealth for aviation, probably also makes sense.

[MPN]

Surely it makes sense, only without fanaticism, not to put in the corner of the corner. The bottom line is who will quickly discover someone ..., an alternative to stealth is a good radar that sees invisibility before, so you should consider investing in stealth or in a radar ... you need some reasonable compromise. Well, really, an airplane has a certain reflection area there, for example 5-10 m2 ..., the technology temporarily allowed to hide this area, but it didn’t go anywhere ..., there will be other means that can see it ..., like the development of optical systems ... but a lot of things ...

[helmi8]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.

True. It all depends on the capabilities of the detection system.

[dauria]

The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Why fairy tales? Or by the decree of the All-Union Central Council of Trade Unions abolished the basic equation of radar? To reduce the ESR by 16 times is real. In this case, the range with the same probability will decrease by 2 times. You can compensate by increasing the power by 16 times, or the directivity (KND) of the antenna by 16 times (that is, the diameter of the "mirror"), or the sensitivity. Or all these three parameters are 2 times with a ponytail. Try to do it, everything is squeezed out there anyway. And if it works out - the enemy will also have such a locator. And again, in a duel, your spear is half as long. Invisibility is the wrong term. It is just visible at a shorter distance.

[Awaz]

the thing is that the Americans initially called the planes invisible, then realizing that this was crap, they began to call them "inconspicuous", now they are simply silent along the way. Each “stealth aircraft” in even the most ancient radar receives its designation and its signature is remembered, and upon repeated observation, the system will probably recognize it much sooner than the first time by some signature features ... I’m not talking about that radars will start working in a slightly different mode constructively to better display targets and their identification

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Do not give a damn which of them is lying, although most likely the Chinese ... This is in any case the “+” Su-30 MKI, especially now when the Indians have not yet decided on additional purchases for their Air Force ...

[Chertt]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

. And whoever lies there only Buddha or Shiva know

Both deities are Indian. If you would like to indicate the Chinese god tolerantly, I recommend Yudi or Pangu

[Morosh]

Hindus on elephant cakes can not be carried out, for a hundred versts they make, and therefore they want F-35.

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Morosha

Hindus on elephant cakes can not be carried out, for a hundred versts they make, and therefore they want F-35.

Many want.

[ANCIENT]

Aaron - they still don’t want to spend tens of millions on this semi-finished product of pseudo-fifth generation!

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: ANCIENT

Aaron - they still don’t want to spend tens of millions on this semi-finished product of pseudo-fifth generation!

Who does not want does not buy.

[kirgiz58]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Who does not want does not buy.

Who does not want to, they turn off the gas, .... etc. etc. But he who wants does not buy, but receives as a gift.

[Shurik70]

Israel is forced to buy the F-35, since this is a prerequisite for the provision of annual financial assistance from the United States. So there is no faith in the words of the Jews that the “F-35 is a good plane”. Jews have no choice.
And I would like to compare. But only objectively. Because the Chinese and Russians will definitely praise their own.

[figwam]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Who does not want does not buy

They force him and he buys.

[Piramidon]

Quote: Aron Zaavi

Who does not want does not buy.

It’s good for you to reason when you get it for free.

[Solomon Kane]

Aron! Saving your presence.... C-300ПМУ1 will detect, recognize and "reassure" Ф-35 ....

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Solomon Kane

Aron! Saving your presence.... C-300ПМУ1 will detect, recognize and "reassure" Ф-35 ....

We will see the battle.

[Solomon Kane]

You are so sure of talking about its inevitability ...
Do you crave blood?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Solomon Kane

You are so sure of talking about its inevitability ...
Do you crave blood?

They will ask me a lot.

[Lord of the Sith]

And then such information immediately appears:

HAL President Suvarna Raju said his association is ready to supply these 40 additional fighters at a cost of 4,25 billion rupees ($ 62,7 million) per aircraft (i.e., for a total of 170 billion rupees), while, according to him, , The Indian Air Force is now starting to purchase Dassault Rafale fighters at a price of 11,25 billion rupees ($ 166 million) per aircraft, without taking into account the purchase cost for Rafale weapons and technical support. The proposed 40 additional Su-30MKIs will be modified, in particular, for carrying a supersonic BrahMos A.

[sabakina]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

The Chinese said this was crap and their cars didn’t even approach the specified area. And whoever lies there only Buddha or Shiva know.

Aron, they all lie. And Israel is not an exception, but rather a rule.

[Slavs]

Only Jehovah knows everything. Where is Buddha with Shiva.

[Machete]

If you were burned, then you start shouting the loudest that it’s crap. It has always been, is and will be.

[Mountain shooter]

Hard! If this is true, Chinese specialists-designers will be tightly screwed.

[Wiruz]

It is a pity the author did not say the main thing - in which detection mode did the Indian Su-30s find them: active or passive? If active, then yes, the invisibility of the Chinese invisibility is being questioned. If in passive, then ... well ... stealth / not stealth ... he let himself be discovered

[venik]

Everything is very simple - the radars of the “dryers” JUST did not know that the Chinese were “invisible” .........

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

I think it’s even simpler, all the invisibility of airplanes is mostly aimed at working against ground-based air defense, but here it is not ideal and land-based air defense still sees it, only detects it at a shorter distance, which makes it possible (theoretical) to strike a plane at air defense before it is discovered. And another plane sees its plane perfectly with its radar, again here the question is from what distance they spotted them, the main thing here is before they enter the affected area or in advance ...

[parusnik]

Radar H011 "Bars", as I understand it, is not created in the Chubais Nanocenter ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: parusnik

Radar H011 "Bars", as I understand it, is not created in the Chubais Nanocenter ...

For many years now, there has been a debate about which radar is more effective than PFAR or AFAR. For me, PFAR is not inferior to AFAR ...

[impostor]

quantum is more effective, but not the essence. The PLA has an S-400, and the Indians will campaign with the Patriots. This is flying.

[Muvka]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: parusnik

Radar H011 "Bars", as I understand it, is not created in the Chubais Nanocenter ...

For many years now, there has been a debate about which radar is more effective than PFAR or AFAR. For me, PFAR is not inferior to AFAR ...

As for me, PFAR has only one drawback. When one element fails, the entire radar is destroyed. That's all. The rest is getting better.

[dvina71]

Quote: Muvka

When one element fails, the entire radar is destroyed. That's all. The rest is getting better.

And afar and Pfar constructively consist of ... how to simplify .. cones. Loss of part of cones in both of them does not affect working capacity. Now, if a plane with Pfar loses an emitter, then only the passive mode remains. The main plus of afar before Pfar is compactness.

[Muvka]

Quote: dvina71

Quote: Muvka

When one element fails, the entire radar is destroyed. That's all. The rest is getting better.

And afar and Pfar constructively consist of ... how to simplify .. cones. Loss of part of cones in both of them does not affect working capacity. Now, if a plane with Pfar loses an emitter, then only the passive mode remains. The main plus of afar before Pfar is compactness.

The fact of the matter is that with the loss of one cone, the AFAR continues to work, and the VFAR is completely covered until you replace it. In fact, AFAR is even more complicated that each element is individually connected, and VFAR is a chain of elements.

[dauria]

For me, PFAR is not inferior to AFAR ...

Partly true. AFAR loses in efficiency and price, but it has prospects. It is easier to implement multi-range, antenna pieces spaced apart from the fuselage and wing, and a circular view. Yes, and digital processing immediately on the carrier in the elements does not promise just miracles, but completely new approaches in the review and maintenance. True, so far they only promise CAFAR. Do not worry. In microwave ovens, there will be ancient magnetrons for a long time, they are certainly not threatened with solid-state replacement because of the price.

[NEXUS]

Quote: dauria

True, so far they only promise CAFAR

Digital AFAR is a good prospect, but I suppose in 3 years ROFAR will arrive in time, and this is a completely different story.

[Separ DNR]

Quote: parusnik

Radar H011 "Bars", as I understand it, is not created in the Chubais Nanocenter ...

Everything that came out of Chubais’s office is INVISIBLE.
Something, of course, the Investigative Committee and the prosecutor could find, but who will let them into this red "property"?

Anecdote:

... fox, hare and bear. The bear says: “We play strictly according to the rules, and if someone cheats, we’ll beat him in the face,on the arrogant red face! " ...

[Egorovich]

The whistle is always audible to someone who has ears, but who whistled is very difficult to say.

[_Ugene_]

it may well be true, at least on the side he has huge planes of several square meters with almost no slope, look -


this can’t be fixed with a radio-absorbing coating, otherwise stealth could be made from any 4 generation

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Any aircraft can be detected by radar and ground-based air defense and aircraft radar, the only question is from what distance.
If they were all in a small radius, then there is nothing surprising at all ...

[_Ugene_]

the question is just how far

yes, only this is a very important issue, if the distance is several times different, then more noticeable planes are almost doomed

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: _Ugene_

the question is just how far

yes, only this is a very important issue, if the distance is several times different, then more noticeable planes are almost doomed

It’s not a matter of time, but whether an ordinary plane detects an invisible plane before entering its affected area ...
There will be little sense if even the same Su-30 MKI detects a Chinese stealth only after it has already launched a rocket into it ...

[KCA]

All this is in an ideal theory when somewhere far, far beyond the visibility of fighters, ground-based air defense and electronic warfare, a DRLO plane flies quietly for itself and, as a teacher, points to stealth with a pointer - you shoot right here, you shoot right there, in reality it can never to happen, the aircraft will have to turn on its radar, after that it doesn’t matter, it’s 2nd generation, 5th or 6th, at the range of its own radar it will be detected and fired

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: KCA

All this is in an ideal theory when somewhere far, far beyond the visibility of fighters, ground-based air defense and electronic warfare, a DRLO plane flies quietly for itself and, as a teacher, points to stealth with a pointer - you shoot right here, you shoot right there, in reality it can never to happen, the aircraft will have to turn on its radar, after that it doesn’t matter, it’s 2nd generation, 5th or 6th, at the range of its own radar it will be detected and fired

Wasn’t this already when the AWACS guided their fighters at enemy targets?

[KCA]

And in the event of a conflict, hypothetical, between the Russian Federation and the United States (NATO), will AWACS not be goal number 1, for the sake of which they can also miss a couple of fighters? Wouldn't AWACS seek and destroy the MIG-31 at a range of 400 kilometers?

[Scalpel]

You can use AWAX as a bait, by the way.

[_Ugene_]

To do this, they work out different ligaments, for example, when only one plane is lit at a distance from the main group and transfers all the information to other planes

[KCA]

How accurately will a bunch of fighters work for targeting one of them, and who will be this suicide bomber? One of the most important problems with the Fu-35 is just software, and it has not yet been treated (Windows95? :-))

[Boa kaa]

Quote: KCA

A DRLO plane, and as a teacher, points to stealth with a pointer - you shoot right here, you shoot right there, in reality this can never happen, the plane will have to turn on its radar, after that it doesn’t matter if it’s 2, 5 or 6 e

And why the "invisible" to turn on your radar !? According to link-16, he sees on his display a picture of the radar from the SARS, according to these data, and shoots. And to suggest (if there is such a need) can all the same operator with AWACS. But modern districts of VVBD are designed on the principle of "shot and forgot." The on-board equipment (with the 6 BTsEVM!) Itself does everything.
So why would a STELS fighter turn on its own radar? What can he do with passive means (OLS, for example!)?

[KCA]

So I wrote above that goal No. 1 is AWAC, when it disappears, what should I do? The F-35 does not have OLS, unlike the SU-30, 35 and 57, the use of the F-22 in long-range combat with fighters is well beyond the bounds of science fiction, they will all catch the TU-22, TU-95 and TU-160

[Mayor]

When the AWACS plane disappears, the goal (chaos in air defense systems) will already be achieved. One of the UAVs or f35 will be temporarily transferred to the zu function.

[KCA]

3-4 MIG-31s ​​will be hunting for AWACS with a missile launch range of more than 400 km and their own speed of up to 3000 km / h, what can the F-35 or even F-22 counterpose to them? Launch a rocket in the back? So her fuel will run out sooner than catch up

[Mayor]

Well, yes. Well, if the missiles "don't go crazy." The AWACS machine has a rather high potential for suppressing gos and jamming in many ranges.

[KCA]

I think if RVV-DB missiles were developed to combat AWACS, then the GOS is there combined in many ways, just taking into account jamming, if one MIG flies 2 missiles, 2-4, 3-6, are they all deceived? Well, if I were a designer, I would add an option in case of loss of purpose, at least in the direction of the previous position of the target, to carry out self-detonation, 2-3 thousand pieces of tungsten of a fun configuration, and what if they fly

[Korax71]

Under 3k speed with almost empty tanks and no payload.

[KCA]

Actually, 3000 km / h there was a limit for the MIG-25 with 4 missiles and fuel tanks after take-off, 25 were braked due to the flashlight, and by 25 the flashlight was eventually made more heat-resistant, and there was nothing to discuss about 31, full ammunition of 3000 km / h, after firing missiles and 3300 is not a threshold, it depends on altitude, many data are no longer secret, glowed when 31 wanted to “convert” for satellite output

[NEXUS]

Quote: KCA

3-4 MIG-31s ​​with a missile launch range of over 400km will hunt for AWACS

Where did it take you? To date, in the arsenal of the MIG-31, the most long-range air-to-air missile is the R-37, up to 300 km. As for KS-172, it is still, as far as I know, not accepted for service.

[Scalpel]

It is unlikely that someone will launch a rocket at maximum range, a miss is too likely. And a couple of hundred kilometers from AWACS, stealth can graze. And here the situation is not so simple.

[KCA]

What is the chaos in air defense systems? If we are talking about Russia, this is precisely the air defense system, the failure of one radar even on one isolated and devoid of communication with other SAM positions does not mean the failure of this position, the detection range, response speed, any other characteristics will decrease, but the SAM will have the ability to direct and fire, and if you take the entire complex, and not one position, then after the complete suppression and 70% of its components, 30% will continue to fire, even though you can imagine, for example, the structure of the air defense / air defense around Moscow? My friend served at the air defense control point, a simple soldier, his level was -70 meters, which is lower and how much lower he does not know

[Fedalex]

What is an air defense control point? My friend served in the space and underwater space troops! Here he was telling me ...

[KCA]

The PU of the General Headquarters of Air Defense near Balashikha, is that a little clearer? Is there less relation to equestrian troops?

[NEXUS]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

What can he do with passive means (OLS, for example!)?

The pangolin, Sasha, has no OLS, as well as the F-35. And on the SU-57 OLS-50M has not yet shown itself.

[_Ugene_]

provided that both of them without the support of ground-based radars and drills

[Cellulitis]

What stupidity ................... Detecting aircraft is in no way connected with your conclusions - you are not a specialist at all and not the person who can speak objectively! So - zilchopost))

[Sands Careers General]

Outwardly ugly plane, ugly. One word, Made in China.

[gabonskijfront]

Chinese technology is the most non-combatant in the world, no one knows what it is capable of, including the Chinese.

[Andrey Panov]

Well, judging by the tank biathlon ...

[Strips]

.Many technical solutions of the aircraft are repeated by the American F-22 and F-35 fighters.

Oh sure
Compare F-22 and F-35 regarding the materials that are used, and to many, with regard to stealth with the Chinese - just ridiculous.

And the distance from which it was found is not indicated, unlike, for example, other aircraft, etc.

[Yak28]

Su-30MKI - a version of the Russian Su-30 heavy fighter designed for India; the Indian Air Force has 240 aircraft of this type.

Wow, we have even less, Russia has such a territory, and airplanes with a gulkin nose.
I’m certainly not an expert on invisibility, but it seems to me that their capabilities greatly exaggerate, I’m not sure that they will have significant advantages over 4-generation airplanes, with fresh modernization. F-15,16, Mig29, Su27 and so on, will be for a long time to come. I’m building, and most likely F-22 planes will be the first to retire

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

I’m certainly not an expert on invisibility, but it seems to me that their capabilities greatly exaggerate, I’m not sure that they will have significant advantages over 4-generation airplanes, with fresh modernization. F-15,16, Mig29, Su27 and so on, will be for a long time to come. I’m building, and most likely F-22 planes will be the first to retire

Here the question is more about tactics of application ... If an invisible aircraft can not only see the enemy, but also launch a missile on it before it is detected, then this is a significant advantage ...

Conventionally, the F-35, for example, sees the Su-30 with 250 km (and in the bundle in the AWACS aircraft even further), and with 180 can launch it with its missile, it doesn’t matter at all that the Su-30 itself sees the F-35 from 150 km and what excellent maneuverability he has there ... He cannot sneak up on the Su-30 to the F-35 ...

And this is very very bad ...

[Muvka]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

I’m certainly not an expert on invisibility, but it seems to me that their capabilities greatly exaggerate, I’m not sure that they will have significant advantages over 4-generation airplanes, with fresh modernization. F-15,16, Mig29, Su27 and so on, will be for a long time to come. I’m building, and most likely F-22 planes will be the first to retire

Here the question is more about tactics of application ... If an invisible aircraft can not only see the enemy, but also launch a missile on it before it is detected, then this is a significant advantage ...

Conventionally, the F-35, for example, sees the Su-30 with 250 km (and in the bundle in the AWACS aircraft even further), and with 180 can launch it with its missile, it doesn’t matter at all that the Su-30 itself sees the F-35 from 150 km and what excellent maneuverability he has there ... He cannot sneak up on the Su-30 to the F-35 ...

And this is very very bad ...

And how can the F-35 detect the Su-30 with the radar turned off for 250km?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

And how can the F-35 detect the Su-30 with the radar turned off for 250km?

If it is off, then F-35, it will be possible it will be guided by other radars, from another aircraft and not even necessarily by AWACS, ground or ship radars ...

Is that really a problem? Previously, there were no radars at all on fighter jets ...

[Muvka]

Well then, let's take into account our ground-based air defense systems and the A-50. You compare the naked Su-30 with the whole complex ...

[figwam]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

If it is off, then F-35, it will be possible it will be guided by other radars, from another aircraft and not even necessarily by AWACS, ground or ship radars.

Any included radar, even F-35, even AWACS will immediately give itself away and will be destroyed by the enemy.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Conditionally, the F-35, for example, sees the Su-30 with 250 km (and in conjunction with the AWACS aircraft even further), and with 180 can launch it with its rocket, it doesn’t matter at all that the Su-30 itself sees F-35 with 150 km and what excellent maneuverability there is ...

Great reasoning with huge assumptions !!!
Answer, plz, to a simple question: How can the F-22 / 35 attack our SU-30 from such a distance ... After all, AIM-120 AMRAAM max shoots only at 120km! Two of them PUT IN THE WEAPONS COMPARTMENT. But this is a medium-range weapon. A large (more than 150km) must be placed on the external sling. And with the suspension - this is not STELS, but an aircraft with a specific set of performance characteristics.

[ANCIENT]

The plane allegedly amphibious, flying on our engines of the 4th generation! The Chinese themselves from their lies are not funny? ??

[Wiruz]

And they don’t laugh. According to their (Chinese) classification, it is 4 ++

[Simon]

Quote: Hire

How can the Chinese know this?

The Sukhoi radar sees them. New Chinese planes are not so invisible.

The Indians perked up.

The most important thing for our devices is nothing invisible!

[Cheshire]

This is obtained by the Indians ... the thirtieth sushki ... more than in our ranks?

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: Cheshire

This is obtained by the Indians ... the thirtieth sushki ... more than in our ranks?

We obviously can’t fight with India, they can be sold as many planes and other weapons as they like, especially since they really pay with currency for our weapons, and not like Belarus, supposedly as a friendship ...

[albert]

Yes, we only have 120 cars so far.

[izja]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

The Chinese said this was crap and their cars didn’t even approach the specified area. And whoever lies there only Buddha or Shiva know.

Soon, the Indians will write that with such an ancient radar station they also spotted a UFO :)

[Thunderbolt]

Finding a plane is fine, but the Chinese could also detect and accompany the Indians. Therefore, it is important who first discovered whom, from what distance. This is the whole point of “stealth”, and not as many people think --- the radar sees stealth, therefore stealth bullshit. Not even bullshit, imagine two snipers who decided to have a duel in the forest They come together, one in bright-acid-colored workouts whistles cheerfully, and the other in the suit of the “Goblin” is silent ...

[Wiruz]

Greetings, sane!
It’s nice to read such a comment.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: izja

Quote: Aaron Zawi

The Chinese said this was crap and their cars didn’t even approach the specified area. And whoever lies there only Buddha or Shiva know.

Soon, the Indians will write that with such an ancient radar station they also spotted a UFO :)

And why did the Su-30MKI radar become ancient?

[izja]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Russia was not able to achieve success in this industry (in stealth technologies). It’s good that in their time in the USSR they created su27 (which had excellent potential for modernization - su 30,35, even the same su 57 shows the same flanker under the moldings. The Chinese are not stupid and not fools, they invest a lot of money in the development of their aviation, Today you are mocking that they don’t have their own engines and manufacturing technology for the blades, tomorrow there will be a situation like with the fleet (the blacksmith is a bright representative of the Russian fleet). including Russia.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: izja

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Russia was not able to achieve success in this industry (in stealth technologies). It’s good that in their time in the USSR they created su27 (which had excellent potential for modernization - su 30,35, even the same su 57 shows the same flanker under the moldings. The Chinese are not stupid and not fools, they invest a lot of money in the development of their aviation, Today you are mocking that they don’t have their own engines and manufacturing technology for the blades, tomorrow there will be a situation like with the fleet (the blacksmith is a bright representative of the Russian fleet). including Russia.

Tell us nothing about the successes of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex? How is it with 5-generation aircraft, stealth and aircraft carriers?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: izja

China entered the 5 generation arms race later than all, but was able to get ahead of many of its competitors, including Russia.

Yah!! And men don’t know ... (c)
Firewood also flies, and even "barrels" twirl, unless of course they are tightened up properly! Do not be mistaken about J-20 / 31 ... This is not F-22 / 35 or even SU-57. And the fact that they were put on stream with a dvigl from a partner is an indicator of how the Celestial Empire is torn into the club of the elite, and not the successes of their NIIT / R&D.
Ours are not in a hurry to drag a raw product into the troops. Time allows you to work on bottlenecks, apparently there is something to do. But the potential of the SU-57 and J-20 is not comparable ... Amy, and even with envy look at our wunderwaffle, and you are trying to impart the unbeatable to us about hinchiks here!
But.

[gabonskijfront]

India and China, these are two civilizations in which aggressiveness is not respected. They were constantly conquered, they did not gain laurels on the battlefield, but in the end the conquerors assimilated and all defeats were leveled over time. It is probably impossible to poison them seriously. Even the great provocateurs to the Americans.

[izja]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: parusnik

Radar H011 "Bars", as I understand it, is not created in the Chubais Nanocenter ...

For many years now, there has been a debate about which radar is more effective than PFAR or AFAR. For me, PFAR is not inferior to AFAR ...

Pfar is the last century, but what about your vaunted rofar? which by tradition has no analogues in the world? )

[izja]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Quote: izja

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Russia was not able to achieve success in this industry (in stealth technologies). It’s good that in their time in the USSR they created su27 (which had excellent potential for modernization - su 30,35, even the same su 57 shows the same flanker under the moldings. The Chinese are not stupid and not fools, they invest a lot of money in the development of their aviation, Today you are mocking that they don’t have their own engines and manufacturing technology for the blades, tomorrow there will be a situation like with the fleet (the blacksmith is a bright representative of the Russian fleet). including Russia.

Tell us nothing about the successes of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex? How is it with 5-generation aircraft, stealth and aircraft carriers?

You ask ukrov, but I am proud of our Air Force.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: izja

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Quote: izja

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Russia was not able to achieve success in this industry (in stealth technologies). It’s good that in their time in the USSR they created su27 (which had excellent potential for modernization - su 30,35, even the same su 57 shows the same flanker under the moldings. The Chinese are not stupid and not fools, they invest a lot of money in the development of their aviation, Today you are mocking that they don’t have their own engines and manufacturing technology for the blades, tomorrow there will be a situation like with the fleet (the blacksmith is a bright representative of the Russian fleet). including Russia.

Tell us nothing about the successes of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex? How is it with 5-generation aircraft, stealth and aircraft carriers?

You ask ukrov, but I am proud of our Air Force.

What are yours?

[Boa kaa]

Quote: izja

and I'm proud of our Air Force.

Really Israeli !? Apparently, it is difficult for a Jew to live in an independent one! Isn’t it easier to hit the promised land and stop complexing about the host country?

[Jack O'Neill]

And who said that J-20 should fly without Luneberg lenses? No one will shine their real EPR, neither the Chinese, nor we, nor the Americans, nor even Belarus. All these countries will not disclose the real EPR of their 5-Gn machines.

[Muvka]

The Chinese said that they froze and said that their planes were not there at all.

[izja]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Quote: izja

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Quote: izja

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Russia was not able to achieve success in this industry (in stealth technologies). It’s good that in their time in the USSR they created su27 (which had excellent potential for modernization - su 30,35, even the same su 57 shows the same flanker under the moldings. The Chinese are not stupid and not fools, they invest a lot of money in the development of their aviation, Today you are mocking that they don’t have their own engines and manufacturing technology for the blades, tomorrow there will be a situation like with the fleet (the blacksmith is a bright representative of the Russian fleet). including Russia.

Tell us nothing about the successes of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex? How is it with 5-generation aircraft, stealth and aircraft carriers?

You ask ukrov, but I am proud of our Air Force.

What are yours?

Those who destroyed the shell and exterminate Iranian shoes.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: Jack O'Neill

And who said that J-20 should fly without Luneberg lenses? No one will shine their real EPR, neither the Chinese, nor we, nor the Americans, nor even Belarus. All these countries will not disclose the real EPR of their 5-Gn machines.

Luneberg lenses - what is it?

[srelock]

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Luneberg lenses - what is it?

This is one of the options for a passive jammer. Specifically in Aviation, it is used to hide the true radar "portrait".

[izja]

Quote: Thunderbolt

Finding a plane is fine, but the Chinese could also detect and accompany the Indians. Therefore, it is important who first discovered whom, from what distance. This is the whole point of “stealth”, and not as many people think --- the radar sees stealth, therefore stealth bullshit. Not even bullshit, imagine two snipers who decided to have a duel in the forest They come together, one in bright-acid-colored workouts whistles cheerfully, and the other in the suit of the “Goblin” is silent ...

No one writes here that the Chinese could fly with the stealth turned off, no one knows what their goals were, what the purpose of the exercises was, what they worked out, or maybe the worm threw the Indians, the main thing is a beautiful headline, the rest will draw the imagination of the moron.

[Ratmir_Ryazan]

Quote: izja

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Quote: izja

Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan

Quote: izja

Quote: Mountain Shooter

There are no invisible physical objects. Even if the reflected signal is greatly attenuated.
Detection methods are improving very quickly, their sensitivity is growing. Even in radar. And there is also IR! And the aircraft’s own radio emission ...
The Chinese were led to the "American tales."

Russia was not able to achieve success in this industry (in stealth technologies). It’s good that in their time in the USSR they created su27 (which had excellent potential for modernization - su 30,35, even the same su 57 shows the same flanker under the moldings. The Chinese are not stupid and not fools, they invest a lot of money in the development of their aviation, Today you are mocking that they don’t have their own engines and manufacturing technology for the blades, tomorrow there will be a situation like with the fleet (the blacksmith is a bright representative of the Russian fleet). including Russia.

Tell us nothing about the successes of the Ukrainian military-industrial complex? How is it with 5-generation aircraft, stealth and aircraft carriers?

You ask ukrov, but I am proud of our Air Force.

What are yours?

Those who destroyed the shell and exterminate Iranian shoes.

And these are those that the Syrian S-200 got ... "Heroes"? Is it now a hero to beat the Syrian army that is fighting ISIS?
How can a language just turn around to say such a thing ... You are disgraceful fighting on the side of ISIS ...
By the way, that shell will be restored, as well as Syria itself ... And your antics will still come back to you ...

[nikoliski]

What a bunch of spam

[Orkraider]

Quote: izja

...

No one writes here that the Chinese could fly with the stealth turned off, no one knows what their goals were, what the purpose of the exercises was, what they worked out, or maybe the worm threw the Indians, the main thing is a beautiful headline, the rest will draw the imagination of the moron.

Yeah, I especially liked it. About turning off the stealth. Interesting ...

[Hole puncher]

Aircraft created using stealth technology usually fly with lenses for flight safety, and the real EPR of such machines is a secret and the longer you keep it, the better. Shining new planes in front of a potential enemy is stupid, this makes no sense, I do not consider the Chinese Air Force a bunch of cretins, so I am inclined to the Chinese version.

[Dezinto]

What is he so elongated?, He probably gets more bombs on him?

[Amateur]

As soon as I see the inversion trace from the plane, I’m going to patent the way to detect stealth wunderwafes right away. But natural laziness still does not give.

[yaaazzz]

On dryers, a very good Bars locator. And its development "Irbis" which on the Su-35 sees the F-22 estimated at 90 km, which is enough to launch the latest medium-range missiles. The Su-57 took a step even further - combining stealth, electronic warfare, perfect aerodynamics, detection tools, etc.

[Vol4ara]

How did these stupid people get ... From what distance did they track, from 10 km? ... and what not from 150? with 150 not visible ...?

I won’t be surprised if the Chinese also flew with lenses

[nikoliski]

Obviously, the rumors about the Chinese achieving the Stealth technology were greatly exaggerated (a copy of the Chinese golden eagle, like the golden eagle itself, are not invisible)

[Lena Petrova]

Quote: freddyk

And Americans can afford not to count grandmothers at all.

You can’t argue against the laws of economics. Well, they already occupy the third dozen trillions, since you can just print money and solve all the problems?

[alaarsen]

Well, borrow and not give - almost the same as just typing ..

[Lena Petrova]

You can take new loans in some banks for quite some time, paying off% in others. But the end of such a policy is clear and inevitable. Better live within our means. Safer.

[Scalpel]

Well, so far they are getting service. debt, pay interest is all that. I don’t think that the possible consequences are not calculated there.

[alaarsen]

Well, low visibility .. and if they were noticed from the usual distance and the usual radar ......

[123456789]

Su-30MKI of India tracked the Chinese "invisible"

If they were American tracked ...

[alaarsen]

I personally am not interested .. in India, 240 Su -30 ... And how many do we have? Yes, and the 5th generation Indians were going to order clearly more than our MO .. I certainly understand, pilots, training and TD. But no one canceled the quantitative indicators ..

[Scalpel]

Yes, the Indians actually ordered this plane for themselves, and funded. Then ours from the Ministry of Defense flew and reported: urgently give us such cars, even for the sake of it we will learn English. So the Su-30SM appeared.

[voyaka uh]

It is unlikely that the Chinese dangled near their borders, without putting on their stealth lenses, artificially raising the plane’s ESR to the usual 10-15 m2

[lopvlad]

Chinese planes are not so invisible

Americans came up with the invisibility of the aircraft, but this invisibility has already been refuted by the destruction of their aircraft in Yugoslavia with relatively old weapons (the old radar of the 60s saw a closer look and the old missile shot down).
Any new modification of the radar is able to defeat decades of "licking" the designers of the airframe to reduce visibility by a few percent.
The future of strike aviation is aircraft speed, maneuverability and abandonment of man (unmanned aerial vehicles), since people are not able to withstand extreme loads with increasing speed and maneuverability.

fifth generation Chinese fighters

they themselves can’t release Kalashnikov without failure and what kind of fifth generation is there?

[voyaka uh]

"the old radar of the 60s peering" ////
The officer-operator looked closely at the optical device. When f-117 once again flew along the usual route. There was no smell of radar there.

[Scalpel]

Chinese Kalash fought mainly in Vietnam and Afghanistan. Soviet there was a rarity, only as a trophy.

[Dzafdet]

Quote: Aaron Zawi

Quote: Solomon Kane

Aron! Saving your presence.... C-300ПМУ1 will detect, recognize and "reassure" Ф-35 ....

We will see the battle.

A couple of F-xx have already been planted and taken to Moscow for disassembly and study ...

[Dzafdet]

Quote: voyaka uh

It is unlikely that the Chinese dangled near their borders, without putting on their stealth lenses, artificially raising the plane’s ESR to the usual 10-15 m2

Yes, okay, what’s there, write up to 100 meters ..

[voyaka uh]

100 m2 is a B-52 or Tu-95. A conventional 4th generation fighter like the F-15 or Su-27 has an EPR of approximately 20 m2. On semi-stealth like the F-18 Super-Hornet, reduce to 1-5 m2
The leopard is imprisoned for at least 5 m2.

[Scalpel]

31st slower than 25th the car is heavier and the engines of the 31st behave worse at speeds above 2M. Now the speed of the 31st is limited to 2500 km / h.

[Mestny]

Quote: maxim947

In your tone, causticity is visible, why would it?

Well, why?
From the meaning of the article it is clear that Russian fighters are better than Chinese.
Of course, not a single representative of one well-known Russophobic nationality can go past this.
For them, it is unacceptable to recognize something Russian as the best. and usually causes animal tantrum.
Well, here. since, in principle, they don’t directly praise anything special about Russia, he limited himself to gnashing of teeth.