Military Review

Five little-known tanks of the Second World War. Part of 1. Heavy tank KV-85

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World War II showed the world a huge number of different tanks, some of them forever entered historyby creating a real historical and cultural code, familiar to almost every person. Such tanks as the Soviet medium tank T-34, the German heavy tank "Tiger" or the American medium tank "Sherman" are widely known today, they can often be seen on documentary footage, in films or read about them in books. At the same time, before the beginning and during the Second World War, a huge number of tanks were created, which remained, as it were, behind the scenes, although they also personified examples of the development of tank construction in different countries, though not always successful ones.


Let's start our series of articles about little-known tanks of that period with the Soviet heavy tank KV-85, which was released in 1943 a small series of 148 combat vehicles. We can say that this tank was created in a hurry, as a response to the emergence of new heavy Tiger tanks in Germany. Despite the relatively small series, the KV-85 tanks were actively used in combat operations in the 1943-1944 years, up to the complete retirement from the Red Army units. All tanks sent to the front were irretrievably lost in battle or written off due to irreparable damage and malfunctions. Only one fully authentic KV-85 has survived to the present day.

The name of the KV-85 tank is informative enough; we have a version of the heavy Soviet tank Klim Voroshilov with the new main weapon - the 85-mm tank gun. This heavy tank was created by experts of the experimental plant design bureau No.100 in May-July 1943 of the year. Already 8 August 1943, the new combat vehicle was adopted by the Red Army, after which the tank was launched into serial production at ChKZ - Chelyabinsk Kirov factory. Production of this model was carried out in Chelyabinsk until October 1943, when it was replaced on the conveyor by a more sophisticated heavy tank EC-1, which, by the way, was released by an even smaller series - only 107 tanks.


KV-85 was the answer to the appearance on the battlefield of the new German tanks "Tiger" and "Panther". By the summer of the 1943, the KV-1 and KV-1s were already morally obsolete, primarily because of their weak weapons, the 76-mm tank gun could no longer cope with the new German tanks. It did not pierce the "Tiger" in the forehead, it was possible to confidently hit the German heavy tank only in the hull or stern and from very small distances - 200 meters, while the "Tiger" could easily shoot KV tanks at all distances of the tank battle of those years . It should not be assumed that the idea to equip Soviet tanks with more powerful weapons appeared only in the 1943 year. Even before the war, in 1939, the first attempts were made to arm tanks with more powerful 85-95 mm caliber guns; however, with the start of the war, such work was temporarily stopped, and the guns themselves seemed excessively powerful at that time. The fact that the cost of 85-mm guns and projectiles to them was higher than that of standard 76-mm also played its role.

However, by 1943, the issue of rearming Soviet armored vehicles finally matured, demanding urgent solutions from designers. The fact that the army’s need for new tanks was enormous is indicated by the fact that the KV-85 was adopted by the Red Army already on August 8 1943, even before the end of the full cycle of its tests. At the same time in August, the tank was put into mass production. The prototype of the tank was built at the pilot plant No. XXUMX using the KV-100 tank chassis and the turret from the unfinished EC-1, the remaining tanks were manufactured by ChKZ. When assembling the first combat vehicles, the accumulated reserve of armored hulls for the KV-85 tank was used, so cuts for the expanded turret chase were made in the under-turret box, and the holes for the spherical installation of the course gun had to be brewed. The subsequent series of tanks in the design of the armored hull were made all the necessary changes.

At the same time, the heavy tank KV-85 was initially considered as a transitional model between the KV-1 tank and the new EC-1 tank. From the first, he fully borrowed the chassis and most of the details of the armored hull, from the second - a tower with a new gun. The changes concerned only the armored elements of the podbashnoy box - in the KV-85 tank they were made anew to accommodate a new and more overall compared to a heavy KV-1 tank with a shoulder strap - 1800 mm. KV-85 had a classic layout, which was typical for all serial Soviet medium and heavy tanks of those years. The tank hull was successively divided from the bow to the stern into a control compartment, a fighting compartment and an engine compartment (MTO). The tank driver was located in the control room, and three other crew members in the combat compartment, which united the turret and the middle part of the armored hull. Here in the fighting compartment was located ammunition and gun, as well as part of the fuel tanks. The transmission and engine - the famous diesel B-2K - were located in the stern of the tank in the MTO.


Being a transitional tank, the KV-85 combined in itself both the merits of a more spacious turret with the 85-mm gun of the EC-1 tank and the disadvantages of the KV-1 tank undercarriage. In addition, the KV-85 inherited from the last one the hull booking insufficient for the second half of 1943 (the largest armor in the forehead was 75 mm, the sides were 60 mm), which allowed providing adequate protection only from German cannon fire to 75-mm. At the same time, the most popular by that time German Pak 40 anti-tank gun was an ample means for successfully fighting the new Soviet tank, although with increasing distance and under certain course corners, the KV-85 was enough to protect against its projectiles. At the same time, the long-barreled 75-mm Panther cannon or any 88-mm gun easily punched the KV-85 hull armor at any distance and at any point. But the turret borrowed from the IS-1 tank compared with the standard KV-1 turret provided more reliable protection against artillery shells (100 mm gun mask, 100 mm tank sides), also improving the convenience of the tank crew.

The main advantage of the new KV-85, which set it apart from all Soviet tanks of the time, was the new 85-mm D-5T gun (before launching the EC-1 tank in November 1943 of the year). Previously tested on the SU-85 self-propelled artillery, the D-5T tank gun was really an effective means of fighting even new German tanks, ensuring their defeat at a distance of up to 1000 meters. For comparison, the 76-mm gun ZIS-5, which was installed on tanks KV-1, was almost completely useless against the frontal armor of a heavy tank "Tiger" and hardly hit him in the board at distances beyond 300 meters. Moreover, increasing the caliber of the gun to 85-mm had a positive effect on the high-explosive fragmentation ammunition power. This was especially important since the KV-85 tanks in the Red Army were used as heavy breakthrough tanks. On the other hand, the practice of combat use has shown the need for a further increase in the caliber of heavy tanks in order to confidently defeat powerful enemy bunker and bunkers.

The installation of a new, more powerful gun on the tank required a change in the ammunition, the tank ammunition reduced to 70 projectiles. At the same time, instead of a frontal machine gun, located in a spherical installation to the right of the mechanical input, a stationary exchange gun was mounted on the KV-85 tanks. Unmanned fire from this machine gun led mehvod himself, which made it possible to reduce the crew of the tank to four people, excluding from the crew of the gunner-radio operator. At the same time the radio moved to the place next to the tank commander.

Five little-known tanks of the Second World War. Part of 1. Heavy tank KV-85

KV-85 became the first Soviet serial tank that could fight with new German armored vehicles at distances up to one kilometer inclusive. This fact was appreciated by both the Soviet leaders and the tankers themselves. Despite the fact that the muzzle energy of X-NUMX-mm D-85T guns in 5 t • m exceeded that of the Panther cannon KwK 300 (42 t • m) and was not so much inferior to the gun of the Tiger tank KwK 205 (36 t • m), the manufacturing quality of Soviet armor-piercing ammunition was lower than that of German projectiles, therefore in armor penetration, the D-368T was inferior to both of the above-mentioned guns. The conclusions of the Soviet command from the combat use of the new 5-mm tank gun were mixed: the effectiveness of the D-85T cannon was not in doubt, but at the same time it was noted that it was inadequate for arming heavy tanks, which should have outnumbered enemy combat vehicles in this indicator. As a result, it was further decided to arm the 5-mm cannon of medium T-85 tanks, and the new heavy tanks should have received more powerful 34-mm or 100-mm guns.

Despite the fact that the KV-85 corps still allowed the deployment of more powerful artillery systems, its modernization potential was exhausted in full. Designers of the plant number 100 and ChKZ was understandable even in relation to the KV-1 tank. This mainly concerned the impossibility of strengthening the reservation of the tank and the improvement of its engine-transmission group. For this reason, in the light of the planned early launch into mass production of new tanks of the IC family, the KV-85 heavy tank was considered from the very beginning as a temporary solution to the problems. Although the production process of the KV-1 tank (and then the KV-85) was fine-tuned at Soviet enterprises, the front needed new tanks with more powerful armor and armament.

Organizationally, the KV-85 tanks entered service with the OGvTTP, a separate Guards heavy tank regiment. Tanks went to the front literally from the factory, they began to arrive in parts already in September 1943. Each such regiment had a 21 heavy tank - 4 companies of 5 combat vehicles plus one regiment commander tank. In addition to the tanks, each regiment consisted of several unarmored support and support vehicles — trucks, jeeps and motorcycles; the regimental strength was 214 people. The shortage in the front parts of the heavy ACS SU-152 led to the fact that in some cases, the KV-85 tanks could be nominally entered into the composition of individual heavy self-propelled artillery regiments (OTSAP), where they replaced the missing self-propelled guns.


At about the same time, at the end of 1943 of the year - the beginning of 1944 of the year (with some delay necessary for the formation of new units and sending them to the front), heavy KV-85 tanks engaged the enemy, mainly they were used in the southern directions of the front. Slightly inferior in its characteristics and capabilities to new German heavy tanks, battles with the participation of the KV-85 went with varying success, and the result of the confrontation with the enemy was largely determined by the training of tank crews. At the same time, the main purpose of the KV-85 at the front was not tank duels, but a breakthrough of the enemy’s prepared defense lines, where the main danger was not the enemy’s armored vehicles, but its anti-tank weapons, engineering and mine-explosive barriers. Despite the insufficient booking for the end of 1943, the KV-85 tanks performed their task, albeit at the price of appreciable losses. Intensive use at the front and a small amount of mass production led to the fact that by the fall of 1944, there were no KV-85 tanks left in combat units. This was caused by the irretrievable loss and write-off of faulty machines. Any mention of combat use of KV-85 tanks after the fall of 1944 has not been preserved to this day.

Performance characteristics of the HF-85:
Overall dimensions: body length - 6900 mm, width - 3250 mm, height - 2830 mm.
Combat weight - 46 t.
The power plant is a diesel 12-cylinder B-2K engine with horsepower 600.
The maximum speed is 42 km / h (on the highway), 10-15 km / h over rough terrain.
Power reserve - 330 km (on the highway), 180 km (over rough terrain).
Armament - X-NUMX-mm cannon D-85T and 5x3-mm machine gun DT-7,62.
Ammunition - 70 shells.
Crew - 4 person.

Information sources:
http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/tanks/ussr/kv85.htm
http://tanki-v-boju.ru/tank-kv-85
http://pro-tank.ru/bronetehnika-sssr/tyagelie-tanki/117-kv-85
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  1. svp67
    svp67 18 May 2018 15: 12
    +13
    Not a very good choice of a "little-known" tank. KV-85, quite famous. With the same success, the T-50, KV-2, KV-1C, IS-1, T-80 can be entered into the "unknown". So the choice surprised me a little. I would understand for example the choice of the KV-8


    or KV-8S

    if we take tanks of the KV series.
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter 18 May 2018 17: 21
      +6
      Sergey, we will be fair to the author: this is only the first part of five. It is possible that in the subsequent parts will appear and KV-8 / KV-8S.
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 18 May 2018 18: 26
      +1
      there simply wasn’t another gun for the KV-2 chassis, and the KV-1 with 76mm, like the T-34-76, was all the more unarmed in caliber and initial speed, on the T-34 there was a gun even smaller in caliber
      Will the German be there? if so, it was necessary from 10 or 15
      1. Grid
        Grid 19 May 2018 05: 00
        0
        on the T-34 before that there was a gun even smaller in caliber

        What if not a secret?
        1. Bersaglieri
          Bersaglieri 20 May 2018 12: 29
          +4
          Apparently, the small-scale version of the T-34 with 57mm PTP ZiS-2 was meant
        2. svp67
          svp67 20 May 2018 15: 00
          +5
          Quote: Grille
          What if not a secret?

          Well, actually the A-32, during the initial design, was supposed to have a 45 mm gun. It was under it that the entire layout of the tank was made, which then, by inheritance, passed to the T-34. As a result, after installing a 76,2 mm gun in the turret, there was very little space left for the crew in the turret. And tankers from the very beginning demanded an alteration of this constructive solution, to create a more spacious tower for three people, with a separate workplace for the commander, on a wider chase of the tower, at least 200 mm in a circle. But, for various reasons, this proposal was not then executed on production machines. By the way, the issue of returning a 45-mm TP to the T-34 was also considered, moreover, it was proposed to produce tanks in a ratio of 2 to 1. Two T-34/45 to one T-34/76. Tank battalions were proposed and completed on this principle.
          1. Grid
            Grid 20 May 2018 16: 32
            0
            Read my comments. And after speak out.
            1. svp67
              svp67 20 May 2018 17: 55
              +1
              Quote: Grille
              Read my comments. And after speak out.

              Sori, but somehow I didn’t look into the basement.
        3. Romka47
          Romka47 22 May 2018 15: 07
          +1
          Well, he probably means the barrel length in calibers was less. And still there was a short series of 57mm, set, but I doubt that he is about it.
      2. faiver
        faiver 19 May 2018 18: 36
        +1
        what is the confusion written here? KV1 and KV2 have one chassis, what other guns?
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 19 May 2018 21: 37
          0
          sealed with IS-2
      3. Sergey Pavlovich
        Sergey Pavlovich 21 May 2018 21: 31
        0
        "Sam" Koshkin, originally planned a 57mm cannon for his tank (obviously ZIS-4), but KULIK was categorically opposed (since in the early 30s there was no 57mm armor-piercing projectile and it would have had to be created and released by "his" department). At the end of 41 years, a tank company of 10 T-34-57 tanks was operating in Moscow against enemy tanks, they were forced to shoot ordinary shells without fuses, but they also shot through both sides and flew out or stuck in the engine compartment. And since ZIS-4 production was much more complicated and much more expensive, then they refused to continue using it. They remembered only in the year 43 but already as a vocational school.
        1. Romka47
          Romka47 22 May 2018 15: 10
          +3
          The armor penetration and rate of fire at 57mm is better than that of 76mm, as a 57mm tank destroyer was better suited, but it was negligible against infantry.
    3. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 18 May 2018 19: 05
      +9
      Even the KV-85 designer for children and collectors in stores sold ...
      1. Igor V
        Igor V 18 May 2018 22: 49
        +5
        Quote: Nikolaevich I
        Even the KV-85 designer for children and collectors in stores sold ...

        I glued it myself! smile And I remembered about it when I considered the drawing in the article. So, maybe it wasn’t released for long, but it was not well-known.
    4. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 May 2018 19: 16
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      With the same success, the T-50, KV-2, KV-1C, IS-1, T-80 can be entered into the "unknown".

      Or KV-220, who fought in 124 battles. smile
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 18 May 2018 23: 22
        +8
        Quote: Alexey RA
        KV-220, who fought in 124 battles.

        By the way, initially the KV-220 had the same 85 mm (F-30), but it was sent to fight with 76 mm, installing a tower from the KV-1. Coincidence: a week ago I collected the same. (1:72 PST)yes The "base" option:
        And he fought in this form:
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 19 May 2018 15: 01
          +5
          Quote: Paranoid50
          By the way, initially the KV-220 had the same 85 mm (F-30), but it was sent to fight with 76 mm, installing a tower from the KV-1.

          Judging by the data of uv. Yuri Pasholok, the F-30 did not pass the test deadlines: the first breech cracked at the first gun, and the second turned out to be unbalanced. And then the development of the TT with the 85-mm cannon was covered, moving to a caliber of 107 mm.
          When in the autumn of 1941 T-220 (aka KV-220) decided to send into battle, it turned out that in Leningrad there are 2 tower with 1 untried guns in XNUMX buildings. So I had to put towers KV.
          It was then that the T-220 was again remembered. Since they were not tested by firing, and the second tower remained in Gorky at factory No. 92, the following decision was made. From the first experimental T-220 they removed its full-time tower and installed a serial tower KV-1 with an F-32 cannon. The same tower was installed on the second car. On October 5, 1941, a T-220 tank with a serial number of M-220-1 was sent to the 124th Tank Brigade. On October 16, the second car with the serial number M-220–2 also went there.

          Moreover, the M-220-2 tank, having died in November 1941, managed to rise from the ashes in 1943:
          On February 8, 1943, Order No. 012 was issued for the 12th Separate Tank Training Regiment for the enrollment of crews. The eighth vehicle on the list is a tank ... "For Homeland", serial number 220–2, the commander of which was appointed Lieutenant V.V. Strukov.

          ICH, repair of this tank even managed to get into the newsreel of 1942.
          As for the tower that was left without a tank, then it found an application:
          The tower that was left without a tank was found worthy of use. It was installed on a concrete base in the defense zone of the 22nd Karelian fortified area. The armored firing point was called Arth. BOT (KV) with a 85 mm gun "Victory". In this form, the tower lived throughout the war.
          © Y. Pashlok. Experienced tank with a combat biography.
          https://warspot.ru/4884-opytnyy-tank-s-boevoy-bio
          grafiey
          1. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 19 May 2018 17: 33
            +4
            Quote: Alexey RA
            And then the development of the TT with the 85-mm cannon was covered, moving to a caliber of 107 mm.

            EMNIP, it was KV-2 with a gun ZiS-6 (107 mm).
            Quote: Alexey RA
            tank M-220-2, having died in November 1941, managed to rise from the ashes in 1943

            Yes, I came across this moment. "Our answer is to the white Tiger.
    5. timothy61
      timothy61 18 May 2018 20: 22
      0
      Kv-13 seems to me more interesting as a model.
    6. hohol95
      hohol95 18 May 2018 21: 56
      +4

      Not so rare in the Red Army were flamethrower (chemical) tanks!
      1. KVIRTU
        KVIRTU 23 May 2018 16: 13
        +1
        OT-34 in Simferopol
        http://serkoff.narod.ru/ot-34-003.jpg

        One of 2 surviving.
    7. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 18 May 2018 22: 07
      +3
      Quote: svp67
      For example, I would better understand the choice of the KV-8 or KV-8C tank, if we take the KV series tanks.
      So yes, but both are no longer quite tanks in the classical sense, but rather armored self-propelled flamethrowers. Let's just say, KV-85 is the most famous of the little-known.laughing It seems that the next part will be devoted to IS-1.
    8. VictorZhivilov
      VictorZhivilov 20 May 2018 14: 25
      +1
      Not a very good choice of a "little-known" tank. KV-85 is well known.

      There is more that there is a wonderful article on the Site. smile
      https://topwar.ru/15907-tyazhelyy-tank-kv-85.html
  2. Dashing
    Dashing 18 May 2018 16: 38
    +16
    The KV-85 tank (object 239) was developed by a group of designers led by J.Ya. Kotin as a personal initiative. The situation at the fronts was awful: the T-34-76 was not a fighter with the Tigers, it was urgent to prepare an adequate response. So they created a temporary solution - KV-85. So the tank is very famous as a transitional version to the IS series, and the development deadlines were fantastic in speed, manufacturability and quality. When I arrived at ChTZ, the old designers told the following story: there were problems with the leak of track rollers of the caterpillar mover. In the evening, the director of the plant, Salzman, invited leading designers to his meeting and inquired about the timelines for preparing a decision on this issue. - "If you try, then you need two weeks to calculate," the designers answered. Zaltsman thoughtfully pulled a pistol from a drawer, put it on the drawings, stood up and said: “I'll come tomorrow.” Then he left the office, closing the door with a key. During the night, by the beginning of the first shift, a solution was found, calculated and sketched. “Until now, skating rinks are doing just that,” the old designer concluded his story. In the yard was 1985. "Would Salzman really shoot everyone?" I asked. “I don’t know, because they completed the task,” the veteran grinned. “They awarded and awarded everyone with the orders - that’s a fact.”
    1. garri-lin
      garri-lin 18 May 2018 17: 54
      +6
      Well, no one would shoot anyone. Just a man hinted. Either work or shoot. Logical results oriented results.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 18 May 2018 19: 12
      +11
      Quote: DARK
      The KV-85 tank (object 239) was developed by a group of designers led by J.Ya. Kotin as a personal initiative. The situation at the fronts was awful: the T-34-76 was not a fighter with the Tigers, it was urgent to prepare an adequate response. So they created a temporary solution - KV-85.

      Judging by the book of uv. M. Svirin, the history of the creation of the KV-85, which we know, was quite interesting.
      In July 1943, parallel work was carried out on two types of experimental tanks: at the ChKZ they made the KV-1C with an 85-mm cannon (“object 238” - 2 pcs.), And at the pilot plant No. 100 - IS (“object 237” - 3 pcs. .). But there was a problem with the guns: only 1 pieces were made into the KV-85C standard turret of the 31-mm S-2 cannons, and one of them was placed on the IS. The second KV-1C was left without a gun. And the deadlines were running out.
      Then ChKZ received 3 85-mm D-5T guns - by the way, also initiative products. There were 5 cannons. But I didn’t get up in the standard KV tower. But she got up in the IP tower. And these towers at the factory number 5 there were 100 pieces with only 3 IP buildings. As a result, the plan for the production of experimental tanks was already thwarted by 2% - one IS was missing (no hull and filling) and one KV (there wasn’t enough guns). But there was one extra tower of IP.
      And then they decided to make a hybrid at ChKZ, putting the IP tower on the modified KV-1C building. The result was “Object 239,” and the production plan for the experimental tanks was already 80% complete.
      Well, then everything was decided by His Majesty the plan and timing of the production of the series.
      Despite the fact that the KV-85 tank lost the competition to the IS tank in almost all areas (average speed, mobility on rough terrain, cross-country ability on muddy ground, it was almost completely (except the tower) ready for serial production, while the IS required some finishing work And on August 8, 1943, even before the tests were completed, the GKO adopted Decree N ° 3891ss on the start of serial production of the KB-85 tank (Object 239) at ChKZ, right up to the development of the IS tank (Object 237) in the series.
      © M.Svirin
      1. Dashing
        Dashing 18 May 2018 20: 10
        +2
        Tank Plant No. 100 was part of the Chelyabinsk Kirov Plant as a structural unit. It was a pilot production of ChKZ. Therefore, I did not dive so deeply, confining myself to the phrase about the transitional version to the IP series. I think your text once again proves the wrong message of the author of the article, recklessly recording the KV-85 in the category of little-known tanks.
    3. svp67
      svp67 19 May 2018 00: 30
      +2
      Quote: DARK
      Zaltsman thoughtfully pulled a pistol from a drawer, put it on the drawings, stood up and said: “I'll come tomorrow.”

      Kharkiv citizens tell me that Koshkin was walking around with a wand, with whom he could immediately carry out "educational work" with a careless employee, in his opinion ... So, the T-34 appeared for sure "from under the stick"
  3. Huumi
    Huumi 18 May 2018 19: 16
    +1
    And I personally really like the apartment, although I didn’t read how much, the army didn’t really like the apartment - and the gun is rubbish and will drive such a bridge, and the T-34 system was respected more for its briskness. Mechvody wound something in the diesel engine and the tank tore ... the truth and the diesel did not live long, but when it was necessary it could give dust
    1. Romka47
      Romka47 22 May 2018 15: 17
      +2
      the engine speed limiter was removed; at high speeds it is clearly more powerful, but wear is higher. This was not only done by tankers, there were pilots, for example, “aerocobra”, they carefully removed the seal, tightened the revolutions and into the battle, and when the engine “died” they put everything back, and the seal. And it’s not us, it’s Mr. Allies’s slipped it.
      1. Huumi
        Huumi 22 May 2018 18: 59
        0
        Yes, yes, and there are also three dvigla modes, immediately to extreme and forward
        1. Romka47
          Romka47 23 May 2018 09: 22
          +2
          Before you grimace, you would read history, and memoirs of tankers, and then you would realize how absurd your comment looks.
  4. Gnus_
    Gnus_ 18 May 2018 20: 34
    +1
    Quote: YELLOWSTONE
    on the T-34 before that there was a gun even smaller in caliber
    - what?
    1. not main
      not main 18 May 2018 21: 02
      0
      Quote: Gnus_
      Quote: YELLOWSTONE
      on the T-34 before that there was a gun even smaller in caliber
      - what?

      Just not before, but after they put the ZIS-2 caliber 57mm.
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 19 May 2018 00: 45
        +1
        After the Finnish, several tanks with a 57 mm gun and not ZIS-2 but ZIS-4 were released
        1. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 19 May 2018 02: 17
          +4
          Quote: Nehist
          After the Finnish, several tanks with an 57 mm gun were released.

          During World War II ... sometimes this happened ... awkward! There were such “moments that there wasn’t" at hand "the necessary materials, weapons, units, and the" plan "was demanded to be urgently executed" under the threat of execution "... So sometimes they released the T-34 with 45-mm guns, with a gasoline engine, with "armor" almost from the "boiler iron" ...
          1. Grid
            Grid 19 May 2018 05: 26
            +6
            So sometimes produced T-34 with 45-mm guns

            Where did the information come from?
            45mm was on the A-32, but the A-32 prototype. The serial car was quite seriously different from it.
            On the T-34 serial were guns:
            - L-11 first series until spring 1941
            - F-34
            - ZIS-4
            - ZIS-4M
            - D-5T
            - S-53.
            What experienced they just did not try to put. But here is a 45-ku definitely not.
            with a gasoline engine

            But it was. And not only from the lack of B-2. M-17T was significantly more reliable and had a greater engine life than the V-2 of the first years of production.
            with "armor" almost from the "boiler iron"

            Well, not really like that. But the problems in the lack of alloying elements, especially manganese, after the loss of Ukraine were in full growth. Until we built a ferroalloy plant in 1942 and began to mine manganese ore near Tashtagol.
            1. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 19 May 2018 09: 53
              +7
              Quote: Grille
              What experienced they just did not try to put. But 45-ku definitely not

              “At the end of April I graduated from the courses and with the rank of“ junior lieutenant ”I left with a group of commanders in the city of Gorky to get tanks. We were stuck there. The thirty-four intended for us were assembled, but there were not enough 76-mm guns and sights.
              These guns were not manufactured in Gorky, but 45-mm anti-tank guns were made. The plan was asked strictly from Moscow, and some X-NUMX-mm guns were put on some T-34s. Of course, they were less powerful than the required three-inch guns. In addition, they had no sights . Many guys refused such tanks, although we were convinced that the guns were good, and that we would get the sights “on the spot.” It was not clear where it was. It was June forty-second, the devil knew what was happening at the fronts.
              The Germans were advancing. There was no time to sit back and wait for sights or tanks with 76-mm guns. In addition, I was branded with a family member of the “enemy of the people.” I’m surprised how I got to the Leningrad courses! I’ll go on and accuse me of cowardice. In general, we got 15 tanks, part with the "forty", part with the statewide "three-inch" and the front.

              Actually, for the first time I read about 45 on T-34 in another article ... But where to look for that article, especially since a lot of time has passed ...? request There was also such infa: in 1942, during a major German offensive from a certain plant (alas, I don’t remember!) Tanks urgently demanded ... Tanks (T-34) were, but there were no 76-mm tank guns. Then they decided to put (in the form of an “exception”) 45-ki: they received permission and issued an order ... But whether these 45-ki was delivered is unknown! Maybe they didn’t have time: the “three-inch” arrived in time ...
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 19 May 2018 10: 13
                0
                the very minimum was 37mm
              2. Grid
                Grid 19 May 2018 10: 48
                +7
                Something extremely dubious quote.
                Special:
                They asked Moscow strictly for the plan, and some 34-mm guns were put on some T-45s. Of course, they were less powerful than the required three-inch guns. In addition, there were no sights to them. Many guys refused such tanks, although we were convinced that the guns were good , and the sights we get "in place".

                Question number 1. Where is the military representative? Of course, they asked for a plan, but for such insanity, they would primarily lean against the military envoy.
                Question number 2. And who persuaded and who refused? Factory? If yes, then see question No. 1. The one who wrote this does not seem to imagine the procedure for obtaining technology.
                The Germans were advancing. There was no time to sit back and wait for sights or tanks with 76 mm guns.

                Well, yes, but it turns out that you can fight in a tank without a sight.
                His leader, for his “courage”, would have shot this leader.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 20 May 2018 17: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: Grille
                  Something extremely dubious quote.

                  What surprises you? There was a period when an aircraft engine, skating rinks with internal depreciation, and all possible other “entangled” components and assemblies were placed on the tank. Tanks were needed, and sometimes they “turned a blind eye” to many things. Unfortunately
                  1. Grid
                    Grid 20 May 2018 17: 57
                    +1
                    What surprises you?

                    Me, if you at least let yourself take the trouble to read my comment, de Belizeme is written.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 20 May 2018 18: 00
                      +2
                      Quote: Grille
                      Surprise de belle written.

                      These are your problems, the history of tank building, what have you got to do with it?
                      1. Grid
                        Grid 20 May 2018 18: 15
                        +1
                        It's your problems

                        These are not my problems, these are problems of understanding the structure of any state bureaucratic system, among individuals who have never come into contact with it.
                        That quote has nothing to do with tank standing.
                  2. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 20 May 2018 20: 15
                    +1
                    For example, there was such a period when they put a large heavy hinged hatch more than half the roof that could be opened from the inside with only two hands, because of which almost all the wounded burned in the T-34, not only some military leaders but also many engineers liked to have fun so much it has nothing to do with the state system, rather, the NKVD did not work well yes
                  3. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 21 May 2018 10: 34
                    +3
                    Quote: svp67
                    What surprises you? There was a period when the aircraft was equipped with an aircraft engine, rollers with internal damping, and all other possible “hardened” components and assemblies.

                    The problem is that all these changes were officially agreed upon - a whole tail of drawings, sheets of changes, letters and other bureaucracy stretched behind them. You can’t just take and change the design of the tank. smile
                    For example, the question of installing tank and aircraft engines M-17T and M-17F on T-34 and KV tanks instead of the V-2 diesel engine was heard already at a GKO meeting.
                    If a 34-mm cannon were placed on the T-45, there would be at least drawings of a new reservation for the gun’s mask, adapters for trunnions, ammunition, etc.
                    1. svp67
                      svp67 21 May 2018 11: 05
                      +1
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      If a 34-mm cannon were placed on the T-45, there would be at least drawings of a new reservation for the gun’s mask, adapters for trunnions, ammunition, etc.

                      If initially it was planned to install exactly 45 mm TP on its prototype, then there were drawings. I believe that a small batch of such tanks, at the most difficult moment of the Battle of Stalingrad, could appear.
                      1. Alexey RA
                        Alexey RA 21 May 2018 20: 17
                        +2
                        Quote: svp67
                        If initially it was planned to install exactly 45 mm TP on its prototype, then there were drawings.

                        Yeah ... that's only if they were - then only at the KhPZ. Already at the second plant for the production of T-34 - STZ - documentation was transmitted exclusively for the serial product.
                        And in order to get such drawings of an experimental experiment, the Sormovites had to make an official request. According to the experience of the same STZ, drawing saga overgrown with documents thicker than the drawings themselves. smile
              3. hohol95
                hohol95 20 May 2018 21: 57
                +3
                There is only one photo of the T-34 TOWER tank armed with a 45mm gun

                But this tower was not on the tank, but on the BRONZEZOZDENA -
                BEPO No. 1 of the 66th separate division of armored trains, 1942
                Armored train No. 1 consisted of armored locomotive Ov No. 1441 (red-hot armor 25 mm, driver's booth 32 mm, commander’s cabin 20 mm) and two 4-axis armored platforms (red-hot armor outside 15 mm, inside 12 mm ordinary steel with concrete pouring) - the first had armed with a 76-mm gun F-34 in the turret of the T-34 tank, a 76-mm gun model 1902/30, 4 Maxim machine guns and 2 DT, the second - the 152-mm M-10 howitzer in the turret of the KV-2 tank, the 76-mm cannon of the 1902/30 model, the 45-mm tank cannon in the turret of the T-34,6 tank of Maxim machine guns and 2 DTs. In addition, there was an air defense platform with two air defense systems.
          2. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 19 May 2018 15: 19
            +3
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            There were such "moments that there was" not at hand "the necessary materials, weapons, units, and the" plan "was demanded to be executed urgently" under the threat of execution "...

            Just with the F-34 there were no such problems. We must pay tribute to Grabin - he made a very technologically advanced tool for his factory, which had no problems with its production.
            Problems were with the production of another Hrabin gun - F-32, which was placed on the HF. The fact is that this gun was made under the "Hrabin" plant number 92, and had to produce it at LKZ. Moreover, the F-32 actually buried all its own development LKZ - which also did not add zeal to the factory workers.
            The experience of the war in Finland, where the L-11 as a tank system had no failures, as well as the results of a comparison of the design of the F-32 and L-11 ... caused the Kirov plant and the People’s Commissariat of Heavy Engineering to raise the question of appointing a special commission to check the disadvantages and advantages of the F -32 before L-11. Based on the act of the commission, we can assume that the F-32 and L-11 are almost equivalent ...
            In addition, it should be noted that the L-11 system at the Kirov plant was fully mastered in production with the actual performance of 110-130 units per month, while the F-32 was not mastered by the plant (there is only a prototype of plant No. 92). Bearing in mind the mastered production of L-11 ... I consider it inappropriate to master the new F-32 system.
            In this regard, I ask that the Kirov plant maintain the production of L-11

            The answer was simple:
            Tests of L-11 revealed that it is not reliable, does not allow firing at lower angles of less than 10 degrees, is very capricious and difficult to operate.
            Until the readiness of F-32 systems, I consider it possible to install in L-11 tanks with their subsequent replacement with F-32

            Nevertheless, the production of the F-32 went at such a pace that it turned out to be easier to make a new gun for the HF.
      2. Grid
        Grid 19 May 2018 05: 06
        +1
        and after they put the ZIS-2 caliber 57mm.

        That's just as an experiment. About two dozen cars in total. The experiment was not recognized as very successful.
        1. svp67
          svp67 20 May 2018 17: 54
          +1
          Quote: Grille
          That's just as an experiment. About two dozen cars in total. The experiment was not recognized as very successful.

          Do not make me laugh. Continued serial production of the 57-mm gun and these tanks would have been serial buried by the lack of guns.
          1. Grid
            Grid 20 May 2018 18: 04
            +2
            Do not make me laugh.

            Yeah. Laughed.
            Continued serial production of the 57-mm gun and these tanks would be serial

            Well, the serial production of 57-mm guns did have to be adjusted. That's just T-34-57 armed ZIS-4M built only 4 pieces ... Why?
            57 mm is a very good hole punch, but no longer suitable. But the tank’s tasks are somewhat broader than simply digging a hole in the enemy’s tank.
            1. svp67
              svp67 20 May 2018 18: 07
              0
              Quote: Grille
              Well, the serial production of 57-mm guns did have to be adjusted. That's just T-34-57 armed ZIS-4M built only 4 pieces ... Why?

              And from the fact that they recognized NOT NEEDED. It was recognized that it was more progressive to create not a fighter tank, but a master of all trades tank. And they decided to build a “fighter” on its base, but with a more powerful gun as a self-propelled gun. The 57-mm OFS guns are significantly weaker than 76,2 mm, and even spend the limited life of the 57-mm pipe ... there are not enough capacities.
              Quote: Grille
              But the tank’s tasks are somewhat broader than simply digging a hole in the enemy’s tank.
              I agree. And I’m very glad that the Germans, and now the Americans don’t think so ...
              1. Grid
                Grid 20 May 2018 18: 10
                0
                from the fact that they recognized NOT NEEDED. It was recognized that it was more progressive to create not a fighter tank, but a master of all trades tank.

                What ...
                Well, just a genius ...
                Just copy the rest of the post arm tired?
  5. hohol95
    hohol95 18 May 2018 22: 02
    +5

    Dear author, why didn’t you find a place in the article to describe the military operations of the KV-85 described?
    Apparently, the only documented case of a collision of KV-85 tanks with tigers was documented. Here is what is said about this in the report on the hostilities of the 7th separate guards heavy tank regiment of the 38th army of the 4th Ukrainian front from January 24 to 31, 1944: “According to the combat order of the headquarters 17-10 corps, the remaining 5 tanks and self-propelled guns (3 tanks KV-85 and 2 SU-122) to 7.00 28.01.44 g. Took up a circular defense at the farm them. Telman in readiness to repel the attacks of enemy tanks in the direction of Rososh, state farm Kommunar, state farm Bolshevik. Near the tanks, 50 infantrymen and 2 anti-tank guns occupied the defense. The enemy noted a cluster of tanks south of Rosoche. At 11.30 the enemy, with a strength of up to 15 T-6 and 13 medium and small tanks in the direction of Rososh and infantry from the south, launched an attack on the state farm named after Telman.
    Taking advantageous positions because of shelters of buildings and stacks, letting the enemy’s tanks at a distance of a direct shot, our tanks and self-propelled guns opened fire and disrupted the enemy’s battle formations, knocking out 6 tanks (of which three “Tigers”) and destroying them before the infantry platoon . To eliminate the erupted German infantry, the KV-85 Art. Lieutenant Kuleshov, who completed his task with fire and caterpillars. By 13 o’clock on the same day, German troops, not daring to attack the Soviet regiment in the forehead, went around the state farm to them. Telman and completed the encirclement of the Soviet group.
    The battle of our tanks surrounded by superior enemy forces is characterized by the extreme skill and heroism of our tankers. Tank group (3 KV-85 and 2 SU-122) under the command of the company commander of the Guard st. Lieutenant Podust, defending the state farm named after Telman, at the same time did not allow German troops to transfer troops to other battle areas. Tanks often changed their firing positions and aimed fire at German tanks, and SU-122, going out into open positions, shot infantry planted on transporters and moving along the road to Ilyintsi, which blocked the freedom of maneuver of German tanks and infantry, and most importantly, facilitated the exit from the environment of parts of the 17th Rifle Corps. Until 19.30 the tanks continued to fight surrounded, although there were no infantry at the state farm.
    The maneuver and intense fire, as well as the use of shelters for firing, allowed almost no losses (except for 2 wounded), inflicting tangible damage to the enemy in manpower and equipment. On 28.01.44, the Tiger tanks were destroyed and destroyed - 5 pcs., T-4 - 5 pcs., T-3 - 2 pcs., Armored personnel carriers - 7 pcs., Anti-tank guns - 6 pcs., Machine gun points - 4, a cart with horses - 28, infantry - up to 3 platoons.
    At 20.00 p.m., the tank group made a breakthrough from the encirclement and by 22.00 p.m. after the firing battle it reached the Soviet troops having lost 1 SU-122 (burned down). "
  6. Cannonball
    Cannonball 19 May 2018 14: 51
    +2
    Any mention of the combat use of KV-85 tanks later than the fall of 1944 has not survived to this day.
    According to Polish data, in 1945 5 KV-85s were transferred to the People’s Army of Poland, which used them in the first post-war years as training.
  7. bubalik
    bubalik 19 May 2018 20: 28
    +2
    ,, a little war chronicles ,,
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 20 May 2018 01: 01
      +2

      German soldiers visiting the wrecked Soviet heavy tank KV-85, Kirovograd, December 1943.
      1. VictorZhivilov
        VictorZhivilov 20 May 2018 07: 56
        +1
        And, these are already "riding" on the KV-85. smile
        http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/photo/ussr/kv-85/kv8
        5_ger_1.jpg
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 20 May 2018 11: 58
          0
          Sorry ned photos descriptions!
  8. VictorZhivilov
    VictorZhivilov 19 May 2018 20: 41
    0
    My proposal for a little-known tank of World War II.

    Cruiser Mk. VIII Centaur smile
    http://www.aviarmor.net/tww2/tanks/gb/cruiser_a27
    _centaur.htm
    http://war-arms.info/bronetechnika/tanki/srednie-
    tanki / srednie-tanki-perioda-vtoroy-mirovoy-voyni /
    kreyserskiy-tank-centaur-a27l-velikobritaniya.htm
    l
    http://tanki-v-boju.ru/tank-kentaur-mk-viii-centa
    ur /
    1. hohol95
      hohol95 20 May 2018 00: 56
      +1

      The British have created a lot of little-known technology!
      Yes, and we had enough tanks produced in small series -
      At the same time, at the No. 2 BATO plant under the direction of N.N. Kozyrev, a small amphibious T-1932 tank was designed, manufactured, and submitted for testing in July 41. Taking into account the test results in the first half of 1933, 12 such tanks were made, but with a modified hull design.
      1. VictorZhivilov
        VictorZhivilov 20 May 2018 08: 04
        0
        Yes, and we had enough tanks produced in small series

        Formally, the Second World War began on September 1, 1939. So the T-41 pre-war demolition i.e. does not fit into the concept of the article: "Five little-known tanks of the period of the Second World War." smile
        1. hohol95
          hohol95 20 May 2018 11: 57
          0
          I brought the T-41 just as an example! And the T-80, T-30 (land variant of the floating T-40 with the TNSh gun) are suitable for the concept of the article, the German small series of reconnaissance tanks -
  9. Gnus_
    Gnus_ 20 May 2018 12: 22
    +1
    Quote: YELLOWSTONE
    the very minimum was 37mm

    will you still be scattering a teaspoon per hour, or will you puff on the source of these revelations?
    1. Grid
      Grid 20 May 2018 16: 34
      0
      you will be scattering a teaspoon per hour

      Yong will be so.
      And what else to expect from the Canadian crest?
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 20 May 2018 20: 32
        0
        probably when he explains to you even about railguns lol
        the coordinates of the landfill in Germany will also indicate how correctly the mortar is called in German
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 20 May 2018 20: 31
      0
      they tried to make an anti-aircraft tank, and even installed hotchkiss when there is nothing more
      proofs in google
  10. svp67
    svp67 20 May 2018 19: 09
    +2
    Quote: Grille
    These are not my problems, these are problems of understanding the structure of any state bureaucratic system, among individuals who have never come into contact with it.
    How self-critical it is, you harshly said to yourself ...
    Your mistake is that you apply your life experience of the late 20th century to that time, and there was a lot of things wrong, especially during the war. At least remember how Grabin SAM, without permission, drove to the front of the ZiS-3, a gun which, moreover, did not pass the state test, it was NOT at all in the plans, nor in any decisions of the State Committee for Defense, but it was thanks to her that his plant sharply increased production of divisional guns, the factory was BETTER so. The front demanded a gun and a lot, the plant gave them. And those or others, understood later.
    Do you admit such a "fortel" in our bureaucratic system at the end of the 20th century?
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 20 May 2018 23: 29
      0
      in that he believes that the most intelligent, confusing the mortar with a mortar
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 21 May 2018 10: 53
      0
      Quote: svp67
      At least remember how Grabin SAM, without permission, drove to the front of the ZiS-3, a gun which, moreover, did not pass the state test, it was NOT at all in the plans, nor in any decisions of the State Committee for Defense, but it was thanks to her that his plant sharply increased production of divisional guns, the factory was BETTER so.

      The story of the unauthorized release of Grabin ZIS-3 is based on his memoirs. SW M.N.Svirin wrote that in 1941 Kulik twice signed a document on the manufacture of a batch of ZIS-3 for military tests. And only after successfully passing the tests the gun went into series.
      The increase in the production of 76-mm divisional guns in 1941 was due to simplification of the USV design - the modernized guns were named ZIS-22-USV (plant No. 92) and F-22-USV-Br (plant No. 221).
      As for the "unauthorized release" of the ZIS-3, one small question arises - who and how signed into production and agreed on the acceptance of the new carriage so that it passes by the attention of the military representative and organs? After all, the ZIS-3 differs from the SPM not only in the presence of a muzzle brake.
      1. svp67
        svp67 21 May 2018 11: 14
        +2
        Quote: Alexey RA
        As for the “unauthorized release” of the ZIS-3, one small question arises - who and how signed up for production and agreed on the acceptance of the new carriage so that it passes by the attention of the military representative and the authorities? After all, the ZIS-3 differs from the SPM not only in the presence of a muzzle brake.

        Well, then everything is simpler. The carriage is identical to the ZIS-2 and how he "circumvented", or rather, "broke, through the knee" he described. By the way, there is an episode when the senior military representative called somewhere and after that gave "Welcome" to accept the products. I would not be surprised if I called Kulik. Whatever they say about this Kulik, he was a good gunner.
        But I don’t even imagine how the “organs” were circumvented. They certainly knew the whole picture both at the factory and in the design bureau. Then I had the pleasure to get acquainted with a couple of materials on the Kharkov Tank Design Bureau, the end of the 30s. I'm shocked. Perhaps played what Stalin Grabina appreciated and patronized ...
    3. Grid
      Grid 22 May 2018 15: 26
      0
      How self-critical it is, you harshly said to yourself ...

      What exactly?
      What PERSONALY have you never accepted a mat of values? Well duck is a fact.
      Where is the self-criticism here?
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 22 May 2018 21: 48
        0
        and then they returned as weapons? yes
        where here in three comments in a row at least something sane? fool

        0
        Grille (Vyacheslav) Today, 14:39 | Large sniper family: SVD and its modifications
        Another baby ...
        Grid
        0
        Grille (Vyacheslav) Today, 14:37 | Large sniper family: SVD and its modifications
        another pearl

        INNA ... Baby.
        Grid
        0
        Grille (Vyacheslav) Today, 14:34 | Mortars. The deadly family of aunt Nona and Uncle Vasily
        my, then what?

        Well, you mean just a baby.
        So zheltokamushkin, INNA ..
      2. svp67
        svp67 22 May 2018 23: 28
        0
        Quote: Grille
        What exactly?

        You signed in ignorance of history ...
        Quote: Grille
        What PERSONALY have you never accepted a mat of values? Well duck is a fact.

        This is the fact of your utterance of NEXT stupidity, because of self-conceit. By the way, about the reception and delivery of mat.values. Do you know that when transferring the People’s Commissariat of Defense from Voroshilov to Tymoshenko, about a thousand tanks and armored vehicles were missing? And this is in PEACE time, and what happened in the first years of the Second World War?
        Quote: Grille
        Where is the self-criticism here?

        Here? Here it is not, there is a HUGE SELF. You didn’t have to work in an “emergency” when mat.values ​​are issued simply “on parole”, and are written off only later, by order of the senior boss.
        1. Grid
          Grid 23 May 2018 15: 12
          0
          You signed in ignorance of history ...

          No, it’s just YOU PERSONALLY confirmed their innocence.
          This is the fact of your utterance of NEXT stupidity, because of self-conceit.

          Yeah. Twice. Not very respected, did you serve in the army?

          Go ahead and play WoT and you will be happy ...
  11. Conductor
    Conductor 3 July 2018 11: 46
    0
    KV 85 is a pretty well-known car. Here is t 70. t 60 less. or monsters. like t 35