Military Review

The most important thing is the “truthful” report. In Ukraine, the old Soviet guns issued as new

64
Ukrainian media reported that the APU began to receive modernized anti-tank guns MT-12 "Rapier". The media published a video from the employment of the artillery unit of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, in which the allegedly modernized guns MT-12 took part. As noted by the “RG”, in fact, the frames depict ordinary guns, developed in the USSR as early as the end of the 60s of the last century.


The most important thing is the “truthful” report. In Ukraine, the old Soviet guns issued as new


According to the authors of the video, as a result of the modernization of the machine, it was available to the Armed Forces of Ukraine that had the opportunity to “hit targets in conditions of limited visibility.” In addition, the guns were allegedly equipped with new target holding systems, which allow "to more effectively strike them in motion."

No signs of modernization in the demonstrated MT-12 are visible, said the publication. Before us are ordinary guns that have been stored for a long time.

It is noted that earlier in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army were MT-12Р, equipped with radar sights "Ruta" still Soviet production. These tools were considered the most advanced modifications "Rapier". However, according to the information of the “RG”, such equipment turned out to be too complicated for operation in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, part of the guns was captured by the militia, for example, in the area of ​​Georgievka in September 2014 of the year. As a result, the Ukrainian Army does not have this modification at the present time.

Photos used:
https://www.youtube.com/
64 comments
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  1. Shrpv
    Shrpv 15 May 2018 17: 13
    +4
    Well yes. Target retention system. You can tape an adversary’s tank. Or with your finger, to the touch through the smoke show where to shoot.
    1. d ^ Amir
      d ^ Amir 15 May 2018 18: 32
      +2
      ALL FIGS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      I apologize for the flood ....
      1. Nikolai Grek
        Nikolai Grek 15 May 2018 18: 43
        +3
        Quote: d ^ Amir
        ALL FIGS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

        I apologize for the flood ....

        recourse rolled her lip too !!! what wassat wassat laughing laughing laughing
        1. your1970
          your1970 16 May 2018 09: 29
          +3
          but she had such an opportunity, was ... robbed a woman of her dream ....
  2. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2018 17: 14
    +2
    Pans, as always, in their repertoire. Soon Mosin rifles from the warehouses will be issued for the latest ukrorazrabotki.
    1. Division DON-100
      Division DON-100 15 May 2018 17: 22
      +11
      No, you shouldn’t talk about Mosinka in vain, with a good modification, there is no price, and even without modification the old woman is still not bad.
      Here are the modified ones.


      Although skakly and this beauty or spoil or break, and even more likely to be driven into the black market. Give them only the will ... laughing
      1. Division DON-100
        Division DON-100 15 May 2018 17: 27
        +6
        Here's another, pretty damn good, I wouldn’t refuse such a thing.
      2. Topotun
        Topotun 15 May 2018 17: 33
        +3
        Yes, and I’m simple, like the model of 1937 release .... The beast is a machine.
      3. d ^ Amir
        d ^ Amir 15 May 2018 18: 29
        0
        How lovely!!!!!!! whose production ???
        1. your1970
          your1970 16 May 2018 09: 32
          0
          Quote: d ^ Amir
          How lovely!!!!!!! whose production ???
          -Palped on a good - but standard body kit rifle (without improving ballistics) and decided - what is it now super-duper in all respects (including accuracy) ??
          and a silencer for such a cartridge, to put it mildly, a little short ...
          1. d ^ Amir
            d ^ Amir 16 May 2018 09: 35
            0
            I'm talking about the rifle from the second shot of the post of a colleague Division DON-100 .... with a third silencer ....
      4. Angel_and_Demon
        Angel_and_Demon 15 May 2018 20: 39
        +3
        Quote: DON-100 Division
        Although skakly and this beauty or spoil or break,

        they also have this

        the benefit of all aviation stole
      5. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2018 23: 39
        +2
        I don’t mean that Mosinka is a bad rifle, I mean that the pots were so isolated that all the Soviet legacy was given out for the development of the Great Sumerians.
  3. ul_vitalii
    ul_vitalii 15 May 2018 17: 14
    +5
    The fly was welded, but the square wheels were set. smile
    1. ANCIENT
      ANCIENT 15 May 2018 18: 01
      +1
      Yeah, the front sight inside the barrel was stolen, and instead of the wheels, grooved-faceted bandages!
  4. seregatara1969
    seregatara1969 15 May 2018 17: 17
    0
    “More effectively hit them in motion”

    so they also shoot in movement!
  5. BAI
    BAI 15 May 2018 17: 17
    +1
    equipped with radar sights "Ruta" still Soviet-made. It was these guns that were considered the most advanced modifications of the Rapier. However, according to RG, such equipment was too complicated to operate in the Armed Forces

    How will they deal with the Javelins? Apparently, here, like in Syria, we need an automatic weapons system, without human intervention.
  6. Topotun
    Topotun 15 May 2018 17: 18
    +5
    And where is the modernization?
    Photo 2005 radar sighting system. Developments of the late 80s ...
    1. ANCIENT
      ANCIENT 15 May 2018 18: 02
      +2
      One of the wheel nuts without thread wassat this is as much as 3 grams of excess weight removed! laughing
      1. gurzuf
        gurzuf 15 May 2018 19: 08
        0
        What about the paint? About the paint, then forgot !!! laughing
    2. raw174
      raw174 16 May 2018 12: 45
      0
      Quote: Topotun
      And where is the modernization?

      Would you like to say that the famous Ukrainian gunners are not capable of modernization? So that you know, 1 Ukrainian cannon-making manufactory plows in 3 shifts so that half of the watermelon (pumpkin on Moskalsko-cotton) is put on the cannon! good
  7. sabakina
    sabakina 15 May 2018 17: 22
    +6
    In addition, the guns were allegedly equipped with new target retention systems, which allow "more effectively hit them in motion."
    belay What is it like? Three blacks will twirl her for carriages?
    1. pvv113
      pvv113 15 May 2018 17: 32
      +4
      Glory, hello! There are no blacks, there are Europeans wink
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 15 May 2018 17: 37
        +2
        prYuvet Volodya! Yes, to hell with them you will already understand who they are ...
        1. pvv113
          pvv113 15 May 2018 17: 59
          0
          There was a conversation about Sumerians lol
        2. Kot_Kuzya
          Kot_Kuzya 15 May 2018 23: 40
          0
          There are skakuazy wassat
    2. your1970
      your1970 16 May 2018 09: 34
      0
      Quote: sabakina
      In addition, the guns were allegedly equipped with new target retention systems, which allow "more effectively hit them in motion."
      belay What is it like? Three blacks will twirl her for carriages?
      - "new systems retention goals that allow more effective hit their in motion. "Normally it says there, you find fault ...
  8. K-50
    K-50 15 May 2018 17: 23
    +1
    If there is no reason for pride, then they must be invented. yes laughing
    As their teacher Dr. Goebels said: "The more terrible a lie, the easier it will be believed." (with)
    Should I be surprised then at such news from Urkaina? No. request
  9. slavaseven
    slavaseven 15 May 2018 17: 33
    +2
    I must say this, wretchedly, that washing away the dirt is not a modernization.
  10. parusnik
    parusnik 15 May 2018 17: 34
    +3
    It is noted that earlier the Ukrainian army was armed with MT-12P, equipped with radar sights "Ruta" still Soviet-made. It was these guns that were considered the most advanced modifications of the Rapier. However, according to RG, such equipment was too complicated to operate in the Armed Forces
    ...... And that’s true ... why such difficulties, the simpler the better .. wink I can imagine if the weapons of the time of the Battle of Borodino turned out to be in the warehouses .. Probably they were presented as nanotechnologies ... wink
    1. Alf
      Alf 15 May 2018 21: 38
      +2
      Quote: parusnik
      I can imagine if the weapons of the time of the Battle of Borodino turned out to be in the warehouses .. Probably they were presented as nanotechnologies ...

      So there are nuclear weapons.
  11. andrewkor
    andrewkor 15 May 2018 17: 40
    +2
    It would be understandable what any pride of the Ukrainian military would be if they mentioned the ability of the MT-12 to localize modernization to shoot the Stugna ATGM, which is a really important innovation, and it turns out that the cannon is like a cannon, not bad for the 70s of the last century.
    1. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 15 May 2018 17: 53
      0
      Quote: andrewkor
      if they mentioned the ability of MT-12 to upgrade locally to ATGM Stugna

      ATGM "Stugna" for the MT-12 largely repeats the Russian ATGM "Kastet". What is there to be proud of?
  12. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 15 May 2018 17: 44
    +5
    I watched the video - even there is no fresh paint. Streaks of rust, shabby plates ... This is clearly done specifically to mask the "supernew" guns laughing
  13. viktor_ui
    viktor_ui 15 May 2018 17: 49
    +1
    "More effectively hit them in motion" ... smiled. And so it seems, we open the breech, insert our eye there and put it through the "barrel of the barrel" ... and all this while moving. And the base of this device will probably be the head of the cyborg ... all the same sad in the ending.
  14. lis-ik
    lis-ik 15 May 2018 17: 52
    +7
    It’s hard to believe in such news, well, aren't the rams full, so that would be so substituted? We continue to laugh at the Ukrainians, and they are probably at us, at our new-old government, at Deputy Prime Minister Mudko, over decrees that no one will follow, and much more “funny”.
  15. Miller
    Miller 15 May 2018 17: 52
    0
    Ancient like a dinosaur.
  16. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 15 May 2018 17: 58
    +1
    It seems that if they have at least one day without a lie at the state level, then this day will live in vain! sad It’s like lying to them like dope, so Paroshenko is always doping like a gray gelding! fool
  17. Simon
    Simon 15 May 2018 18: 09
    +3
    Yes..a, in this way soon it will come to forty-five, from the time of World War II! fool laughing
    1. BAI
      BAI 15 May 2018 20: 15
      0
      They out of 37354 units remained.
    2. Paranoid50
      Paranoid50 17 May 2018 00: 01
      +1
      Quote: Simon
      soon the matter will reach forty,

      These ... more likely Pak 35/36 will appear, so the Wehrmacht - so the Wehrmacht.laughing
  18. Dormidont
    Dormidont 15 May 2018 18: 09
    +4
    On the outskirts, everything is new - well-stolen old
  19. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 15 May 2018 18: 17
    +1
    He shot from such an MT-12 Rapier .... it shoots powerfully and accurately, but already for the T-72 and 64 it is weak
    1. dgonni
      dgonni 15 May 2018 18: 28
      0
      Unfortunately, the tank must maneuver. And basically for everyone! tanks of our time, this gun is archaic!
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 15 May 2018 18: 29
      +1
      .Where it is weak there - it can shoot the brass knuckles, it breaks through 660 millimeters of armor for dynamic protection.
      1. Zaurbek
        Zaurbek 15 May 2018 18: 51
        0
        660 is the level of 70x, and the BPS is about 500mm
        1. Patriot5000
          Patriot5000 15 May 2018 19: 45
          +1
          Well, you can not in the tank. I also shot from it. for 800 meters, you can get into a bucket from a sub-caliber. smoothbore 100 mm. 3,5 tons. night sight can be put. a kilometer per second shell flies.
          but usually 12 guns need to be knocked out by a tank. there is only one shot. the second is rarely given. but it is already economically profitable

          when he somehow dragged her, they dropped my bed on the foot. everything was blurred in the eyes. then lay down.
          1. Zaurbek
            Zaurbek 15 May 2018 21: 14
            0
            At our training camp, a teacher for an argument with 1100m fell into a bucket. Using a rangefinder.
          2. Alf
            Alf 15 May 2018 21: 41
            +1
            Quote: Patriot5000
            when he somehow dragged her, they dropped my bed on the foot. everything was blurred in the eyes.

            What did you say about close relatives at this moment? laughing
        2. Vadim237
          Vadim237 15 May 2018 22: 34
          0
          One hit to any tank is enough.
          1. Alf
            Alf 16 May 2018 21: 01
            0
            Quote: Vadim237
            One hit to any tank is enough.

            On board, yes, on the forehead, let the gunners not even dream.
  20. major147
    major147 15 May 2018 19: 49
    0
    Painted, means "modernized"!
  21. chenia
    chenia 15 May 2018 19: 53
    +1
    Yes, things are really bad. Three schools were Sumy, Odessa, Khmelnitsky. Shooting straight from the cord ????
    It can be seen that the Soviet artillerymen have transferred (do not want to participate), and the American instructors do not represent the actions of anti-tank artillery and are afraid to approach the gun.

    Well then everything is clear
  22. kind
    kind 15 May 2018 20: 58
    +1
    Right to tears !!! Mastered the MT-12 in 2018! They’ll come up with some kind of “newest” AGS-5 in 17 years!
    1. tracer
      tracer 16 May 2018 06: 12
      +1
      It was possible to shoot from the AGS 17 Flame. Thing .. Fan like dash .. Bushes coughs well. One bed like a star warrior. Good device.
  23. shirkoled
    shirkoled 15 May 2018 21: 00
    +1
    Dill in its role !!!
  24. Lexa-149
    Lexa-149 15 May 2018 21: 12
    0
    All modernization consisted in painting the guns in patriotic yellow-black colors.)))))
  25. faterdom
    faterdom 15 May 2018 21: 14
    0
    "Limited visibility" - visibility by the driver of the road in the direction of movement, limited by the topography, geometric parameters of the road, vegetation, buildings, structures or other objects, including vehicles.
    Now they can shoot from around the corner. Suddenly.
  26. CommanderDIVA
    CommanderDIVA 16 May 2018 05: 34
    0
    Quote: lis-ik
    It’s hard to believe in such news, well, aren't the rams full, so that would be so substituted? We continue to laugh at the Ukrainians, and they are probably at us, at our new-old government, at Deputy Prime Minister Mudko, over decrees that no one will follow, and much more “funny”.

    So laughter prolongs life
  27. LeonidL
    LeonidL 16 May 2018 08: 32
    0
    "... such equipment turned out to be too complicated for operation in the Armed Forces, some of the guns were captured by militia, for example, in the area of ​​the village of Georgievka in September 2014. As a result, the Ukrainian army does not currently have this modification of Rapir." But militiamen of free Donbass possess - they will cope with the equipment "P"! Well, thank God!
  28. sgr291158
    sgr291158 16 May 2018 08: 40
    0
    You still attach a square store to the PPSh, and say that you came up with a new machine.
    1. Alf
      Alf 16 May 2018 21: 03
      0
      Quote: sgr291158
      You still attach a square store to the PPSh, and say that you came up with a new machine.

      Do not disclose a top-secret development in advance!
  29. Sergey Rainbow
    Sergey Rainbow 16 May 2018 12: 21
    +3
    I watched a video about the “New modernized style to Rapier type” and could not remain indifferent to this “news”.
    From the video, I did not notice anything new, but I noticed a lot of things that an ordinary civilian does not notice. So we’ll look at the video frame by frame and take a closer look at the little things, as the great one said: “Little things are not critical, they decide everything!”
    The gun crews weren’t staffed and obviously underwent training under the guidance of the far-flung collective farmers commanders, therefore they make not only a number of mistakes such as the lower shield that was not lowered in combat when brought to battle at 0-46 minutes, but even gross violations of the rules for operating artillery weapons .
    So on the march 0-02 sec. This artillery unit clearly shows that in addition to the standard tractors, the URAL car is also used, but this is not critical (in Ukraine, in the end, they can, if they don’t have anything to carry their “new harmonies” with donkeys), but it’s clear that neither the rear nor the rear muzzle light because there are simply no power cables. And this threatens that at night and in conditions of insufficient visibility it is possible to hit the tractor on the barrel of the gun ahead of you, in the case of the latter in the Urals column during collision, the engine of the car and the gun barrel may be damaged, or even injury and death of the driver.

    About the fact that this is “new harmony”, for 0-12 seconds. it can be seen that the inscription on the shield cover is written in white paint that this gun underwent a major overhaul in 2017, it is surprising that after the overhaul on the gun the banner bars are not painted and there are no power cables.

    For 0-07 seconds, while the gun commander (determined by the presence of a commander’s bag) and the driver (the one on the tractor without a helmet and body armor) unload ammunition boxes (calculations are not completed).
    We observe how two "warriors" break a gun. It can be seen that one "warrior" climbed onto the gun’s barrel and rides there like a maimun. Why is this all happening? And this whole circus number due to the fact that the left bed of the gun does not stop with the standard stop of the bed in combat, such a malfunction is characteristic due to the fact that the stop has not been serviced for a long time and because of dirt and dry grease does not work, and this “warrior” with the help of a large lever of the barrel, the barrel is trying to swing the gun and help another "warrior" eliminate the malfunction. Usually in such a situation, the normal platoon commander intervenes and smashes his oak flags on the head of such a “warrior” so that he never climbs the barrel again. And why? Because with such physical impact on the barrel, the rotary-lifting mechanism of the gun barrel can be damaged, which will lead to inaccurate aiming or increased efforts on the aiming drives or to breakage and complete failure of the entire mechanism and the gun as a whole.

    Speaking of flags, there is something none of them have in the video, in artillery at a firing position it is customary to give commands with signal flags because when you shoot nobody can hear anything and it is impossible to shout out the sounds of shots.
    At 0-09 minutes, it is seen how the fighters in training shootings do not use practical shots, but combat shots with cumulative shells - they can see a lot of extra shells during the so-called “war”.
    For 0-13 sec. it is clear that the gun commander does not observe the results of firing his gun, he does not even make any attempt for this, and he does not even have binoculars, he does not care where he gets from his “modernized harmonica”.

    And it’s also clear that the gunner does not shoot by pressing the trigger handle, but with the help of a cord - thus, for sure, “now the stench can be hostile in the minds of obmezhennogo visibility in Russia”.
    For 0-35 sec. we see a gunner (probably a naval gunner from the "Ukrainian fleet", judging by the vest sticking out from under the uniform and the anchor on the sleeve) and on the gun’s shield there are two instruction plates, these are not simple plates. The one that was not visible in the mud and sealed for a long time has not been used - this is a schedule for checking the fluid in the knurled wheel of the recoil devices, these devices should always be checked before combat use of the gun (like car brakes before the march). By all accounts, it is clear that no one carried out technical training of guns on the eve of combat firing. For 0-14 seconds. clearly we observe an increased recoil of the gun when firing, a few more such shots and we can expect that the brake rod of the retracting parts will come off (and then everything is complete with the gun). This really explains the shooting from the cord - it's just scary to shoot from an unverified gun.

    And in the end: what this collective farm chairman tells with the APU in panama for 0-15 seconds. that “the models themselves are guided by the induced mechanisms, hacked and superconducted” is partly true - since the tools are probably “driven by the mechanisms that are already evil”. But in fact, what he says is complete nonsense and nonsense, it would be better if he taught his “warriors” something, and he learned a lot ...
  30. Romanenko
    Romanenko 16 May 2018 14: 47
    0
    What about the paint?
    The most important thing from the modernization did not make out !!!
    The paint is European!
    Here it is the secret of success.