Mortars Death family of Aunt Nona and Uncle Vasily

A series of articles on mortars would not be complete if we had not told about one of the most famous products - the universal 120-mm gun "Nona".

We will not repeat the reasons for the success of mortars. But one reason still needs to be voiced. She is simple. Mortar and, most importantly, ammunition to it, are quite cheap in production. To create such a tool today can almost any state with more or less developed industry.

But you can only produce mortars of small and medium caliber. For the production of large calibers requires a sufficiently high industrial and scientific potential. At the same time, the experience of Soviet gunsmiths in creating very large-caliber mortars (see the article “Capacitor and Transformer. Almost on mortars”) showed that increasing the power of a mortar is possible only in enhancing the power of ammunition.

Speaking about the post-war developments, it is worth mentioning the difficulties that the designers faced all over the world.

The first. The lack of materials that could withstand the enormous loads experienced by a powerful mortar when fired.

The second. Speaking of self-propelled mortars, the problem arose really reliable chassis.

Even theoretically possible versions of the execution of such a product came across exactly the problem of lack of materials. Super-mortars, large-caliber and mobile at the same time remained the goal of many designers.

A solution was found. And again the French found it. Perhaps, even without knowing it. At the beginning of the 60-s, the French adopted the MO-RT-120 61-mm mortar.

It makes no sense to talk about this mortar in detail. But those, right to say, the revolutionary decisions that are there, are worth considering.

First of all, MO-RT-61 has a rifled barrel! And at the same time, it keeps the muzzle charge. What was not in the artillery before. Mines for this mortar had factory cutting on the leading belt. In addition, in the new mortar used a special charger with a powder charge, which took off with a mine.

It is clear that such a projectile was greeted with bayonets in mortar units. Agree, to insert a mine with cutting on the belt is more difficult than just throwing it into the barrel. This greatly increased the time between shots and required sufficient care from the calculation.

In addition, the problem of "re-stabilized projectile". Mines when fired at high angles of elevation simply "did not have time to roll over." In fact, these mines fell "tail" down.

What is the main drawback of the "classic" mine? The answer is paradoxical - in the mine itself! The device itself of this projectile "throws over the uselessness" of the munition. Fuse in the head. The bulk of the explosive too. At the same time, the stabilizer and the adjacent part of the hull either do not produce fragments at all, or they are large, heavy and, giving the required number of fragments, simultaneously affect the speed of the mine. In the direction of its reduction.

Hence, when the mines are triggered, the main, most efficient and high-speed fragments “leave” to the ground. Simply put, mine "really works" about a third of its body.

In the stabilized mine, with factory cutting, explosives are distributed more evenly and the number of high-speed fragments, according to experts of the artillery of the Central Research Institute of Precision Engineering (TsNIITOCHMASH) in the city of Klimovsk, who tested the French mine, increases 1,5 times.

Moreover, our engineers discovered what they were unsuccessfully searched for in large calibers. The power of the 120-mm rifled projectile mines was approximately equal in power to the power of the 152-mm mines!

Attentive readers have already noticed the "inaccuracy" of the authors. In the previous article, we mentioned the development of Americans in 20-30 years of the last century - ХМ70 Moritzer and М98 Houtar (names derived from the combination of the words mortar and howitzer: MORtar - howiTZER and HOWitzer - morTAR). In principle, these developments can be attributed to what surprised the French. However, the Americans abandoned the idea because of its futility.

But back to TSNIITOCHMASH. It was the test results in Klimovsk that made the Main Rocket and Artillery Directorate start the development of a new gun there. Universal tools!

Here it is necessary to deviate from the topic of the article.

70-s of the last century were the years of active work on the creation of the USSR Airborne Forces. The legendary commander of the Airborne Forces VF Margelov actively punched a new method of conducting military operations using amphibious units and formations. Moreover, according to the idea of ​​the commander, these should have been full-fledged units and units capable of independently performing combat missions with a full range of weapons and equipment.

It was Margelov who saw the prospects of a universal gun for the Airborne Forces. And, in many respects, it was the commander of the Airborne Forces who “pierced” the development of this weapon in the landing variant. By the way, these are not the only products for which B, Margelov became the "father". There were also "Violet" (122-mm self-propelled howitzer) and "Lily of the valley" (120-mm self-propelled mortar).

The 122-mm divisional airborne self-propelled howitzer 2С2 "Violet" or the 924 object was not adopted. One of the reasons was the high recoil of the 2А32 gun with D-30 howitzers ballistics, which the modified BMD-1 chassis could not withstand.

Prototype SAU "Nona-D", built on the chassis 2C2 "Violet". Similarly, could look and "Lily of the Valley" ...

"Lily of the Valley" in the series did not go, the project was stopped at the level of development. But the work was done, and not just done.

In 1981, the “Nona” was adopted.

The appearance in the airborne divisions of this gun caused a flurry of enthusiasm. Indeed, maneuverable, on the chassis of the BTR-D machine for paratroopers was "his". Swims, not far behind BMD on the track, light (8 tons in the first version). The tower turns +/- 35 degrees (officially). But, it is necessary to disconnect the hoses of the pneumatic system, in manual mode, twists "head" to all 360 degrees ...

A gun that can fire like an ordinary cannon. And for armored targets and a cumulative shell. True, go to battle with tanksfor example, for Nona, death is similar. The landing gun. Well, the amphibious armor ... I mean, the bullet will not break.

A gun that is a howitzer! Simply put, it shoots a hinged howitzer trajectory with conventional and active rocket projectiles.

The gun, which is a mortar when shooting at the "mortar" trajectory. Moreover, "Nona" - a real mortar, shoots mines of any production. By the way, this was one of the conditions of Margelov. The landing force was to operate in the rear of the enemy. Moreover, "Nona" - a mortar more accurate than most mortars of the same caliber. The breech gun "lengthens" the barrel.

Nona-M (2006)

Combat weight, t: 8,8 (2C9-1М)
Mass during the landing, t: 8,2
Crew, prs: 4
Armor, mm: 16, aluminum

Engine power, hp: 240
Speed ​​km / h: 60
Speed ​​afloat, km / h: 9
Power reserve, km: 500

Armament: rifled, semi-automatic gun-howitzer-mortar 120-mm 2А51М

Ammunition, pcs: 40
at landing, pcs: 25

Opening time by
unscheduled goal, min: 0,5-0,9

Inside, by the way, is quite spacious. There is a certain expectation to see in the carriage amphibious amphibians, not tankers.

The success of the self-propelled gun "Nona" 2С9 accelerated the development of the towed version of the gun.

The variant is almost identical to “None-S”, but with a different name. 2B16 Nona-K.

Attentive readers immediately noticed some inconsistency in the title. Domestic towed guns have the letter "B" in the designation. And then "K". The towed version of the "Nona" was adopted in the 1986 year.

For a long time we were looking for an explanation of the very word "Nona". The options are many, but there is no 100 percent answer. Most likely, the name is chosen "for reasons of secrecy." But this is just our opinion. As well as the fact that the classic designation of the gun "Nona-B" would sound interesting enough for our army joker.

Moreover, "Nona" went to the infantry. The ground forces, taking into account the specifics of their own armored vehicles, ordered the Nona variant for themselves. The gun-howitzer-mortar "moved" from the BTR-D to the BTR-80. In this embodiment, it is called 2C23 "Nona-SVK". Accordingly, the status has changed. The battalion self-propelled artillery gun. Adopted in 1991 year.

There is also a towed version of the 2C23 Nona. This tool today can already be seen in ... MOE. Light, with the possibility of transportation by helicopter, the gun is successfully used in the mountains and in extinguishing fires in the taiga. 2C23 “Non-М1” is also used in the elimination of ice jams on rivers.

In general, if we talk about universal tools, "Non" had to be called "Eve." Beautiful tool, but the first. Parent (if she has a female name). And the "baby" already has. Daughter.

The truth is called "daughter" is not quite traditionally - "Vienna." Full name - self-propelled artillery 120-mm gun 2С31 "Vienna". The gun has been in service since 2010.

The fundamental difference from "Nona" for this tool is automation. On board there is a computer that controls the entire complex. Practically, the CAO operates in automatic mode. From receiving commands via telecode channels to automatic weapons at the target. In addition, the complex automatically controls the guidance after the shot.

Also in 2C31 there are a number of systems that help the crew in their work. These are systems of topographic location of the gun, reconnaissance and target designation systems, laser range finder for automatic determination of the distance to the target. At the same time, the possibility of manual control is fully preserved.

The gun is now located on the BMP-3 chassis. This allowed not only to increase the ammunition to 70 shots, but also to create a mechanism for the rapid repayment of hull oscillations after the shot. That, in turn, allows you to make several shots without changing the sight.

Combat weight, t: 19,8
Crew, prs: 4

Armament: 2А80 gun, PKTM machine gun
Ammunition, pcs: 70

Engine power, hp: 450
Speed ​​km / h: 70
afloat: 10
Power reserve, km: 600

The airborne troops decided to take the path already mastered by motorized infantry. And, according to rumors, paratroopers are demanding a “Vein” in the “Crimp” variant. Only in contrast to the land variant, the Airborne Forces want to "transplant" the "Vienna" on the BMD-3. So we are waiting for the birthday.

The potential of universal guns is only being revealed. The future of this weapon is bright. Especially when you consider the latest developments of ammunition for such weapons ...

P.S. Mortars are on their way!

Comments

[K-50]

The power of a 120-mm rifled shell-mine in its combat properties was approximately equal to the power of a 152-mm mine!

Probably implied 152 mm shells.

[domokl]

Not. It was precisely the mines that were tested. The gun was originally developed as a mortar from which you can shoot mines of the same caliber from the United States and NATO.

[Bormanxnumx]

Tested mines, but the text implies a comparison of the effectiveness of the new MINES with high-explosive fragmentation 152mm shell.

[Kibb]

Need to go back to school, and me too

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, why offend sharply feathered mines? As the saying goes: "... rabbits are not only .....", and the "shank" of the mine is not only a "stabilizer", but also a place for attaching the charges! And to the "rifled" mine, you still have to slur up the charges ... and thereby "increase" the weight, size of the shot ...
Moreover, our engineers discovered what they were unsuccessfully searched for in large calibers. The power of the 120-mm rifled projectile mines was approximately equal in power to the power of the 152-mm mines!
Brilliantly stated thought! Here ... searched, searched ............ searched, searched .....
.and "looked into the barrel", and into the breech ... and touched the frame, and wiped the optical sight with a "thin layer" ... and still could not be found! And here, once it was found! And how? Well, about this the author does not say, classified! And no one can guess that the 152-mm projectile has “walls” thick because the projectile has to cut into the rifling ... from which the explosive will be smaller. Shells with "notches" protrusions enter the grooves and roll along the trunk, like a skier on a track. The walls can be made thinner, and the BB should be shoved more. This is where the equality of “moschi” comes from ...
With "Nona-S" began the artillery of New Russia! 2С9 actively fought in the Donbass. The towed Nona-K were also noticed there ... In total, 4 guns were available in the Armed Forces and all of them went to the militia ...

[YELLOWSTONE]

the fragmentation effect of a 152mm shell is worse than even with a 82mm mine

[Grid]

the fragmentation effect of a 152mm shell is worse than even with a 82mm mine

What are you saying? Here zhezh ...

[YELLOWSTONE]

Quote: Grille

Here zhezh ...

in the sense of yes or in the sense of no?

[Grid]

I mean, baby, go to school, maybe there’s something to pick up. But at the same time you stop posting heresy.

[YELLOWSTONE]

someone else has Teutonic bile bombing again what were you taught
or didn’t see the fragmentation word?

[Grid]

And no one can guess that the 152-mm shell has thick walls, because the shell has to cut into the rifling ...

Since 1877, in the vast majority of artillery systems, the projectile has been guided by a special belt. The walls of the projectile do not cut into the rifling.
In fact, the mortar has a fairly low maximum pressure in the barrel, respectively, a mine experiences less stress. Therefore, its body may be thinner.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Grille

projectile guidance on rifling is carried out by a special belt. The walls of the projectile do not cut into the rifling.

You are right ... I knew about this, but at the “moment of comment” I “flew” out of my head (perhaps the reason was the night time for writing the comment ...) Still, I have some “support” ...
Ready-made rifling on the leading belt of the projectile allowed to reduce the pressure in the bore and to somewhat thin the walls of the projectile. The ZOF49 high-explosive fragmentation shell (it had the code “Transmitter” during development) has a steel case and contains 4,9 kg of powerful explosive, gives about 3500 fragments with a mass of 0,5 to 15 g (with an initial dispersion speed of 1800 m / s), breaking open manpower on the area up to 2200 m2. The fragments are capable of piercing armor with a thickness of 12 mm at a distance of 7-10 m from the break point. When installed on a high-explosive action, the projectile forms c. on the ground a funnel up to 2 m deep and up to 5 m in diameter. For comparison: the old 152-mm HE-5EO high-explosive howitzer grenade, when the detonator is mounted on a fragmentation effect, gives a fragmentation of damage in the 2100 mNXXX area, and forms in a medium-density soil in an explosion in medium-density soil with a diameter of 2 m and a depth of about 3,5 m. That is, in terms of effectiveness, the 1,2-mm shell of the ZOF120 is close to the shell of the 49-mm howitzer.
Here the comparison of shells goes through the "funnel" (high-explosive action). Is this method objective? I can’t give a definite answer. You can compare the "weight" characteristics of shells for "curiosity":
1. "Old" 152-mm howitzer shell OF-540: projectile weight-43,56 kg; BB-5,86 kg
2. "New" 152-mm shell OF-25: projectile weight-43,56 kg; BB-6,88 kg
3. "Cannon" 152-mm projectile 3ОФ29: projectile weight-46 kg; BB-6,42 kg
4.D-30. 122-mm shell 3ОФ56: projectile weight-21,8 kg; BB-4 kg
5.NONE. 120-mm shell 3ОФ49: projectile weight-19,8 kg; BB-4,9 kg
6.NONA.120-mm projectile 3ОФ51: projectile weight-19,8 kg; BB-3,8 kg
So ... whoever wants, let him compare ...

[Grid]

Here the comparison of shells goes through the "funnel" (high-explosive action). Is this method objective?

Comparison of mortar mines and cannon (howitzer) projectiles of equal calibers is clearly not correct. A classic mortar mine is at least twice lighter than a shell of the same caliber. But it can carry a larger explosive charge. It’s just that it cannot penetrate into the ground just like a shell, because there is not enough mass.
In general, the high-explosive impact of a projectile is determined not only by the mass of the explosive, but also by the total mass of the projectile (the 120-mm mine could not always destroy a properly constructed dugout, but the 122mm projectile from a howitzer was guaranteed), its durability and the correct installation of the fuse.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Grille

In general, the high-explosive impact of a projectile is determined not only by the mass of the explosive, but also by the total mass of the projectile (the 120-mm mine could not always destroy a properly constructed dugout, but the 122mm projectile from a howitzer was guaranteed), its durability and the correct installation of the fuse.

Is such a definition correct? An example with a dugout speaks only about the penetrating effect of shells due to the strength of the hull and kinetic energy ....

[Grid]

The high-explosive effect of the ammunition is determined not only by the mass of explosives, but also by the depth of penetration of the projectile.

[Nikolaevich I]

In your example (with a dugout ...), the high-explosive action is "secondary" .... penetrating ability is "primary"! If the artillery shell or mine "penetrates the dugout, then those who are in the dugout will not care who has the explosive action more, and also about the explosive ....

[Grid]

The projectile may not even create an ejection of soil and not break through the coating of a fortified point, however, its impact with a shock wave can be more than significant.

[YELLOWSTONE]

to mine he had about the same

[Grid]

to mine he had about the same

You, baby, urgently need to study the course "Blast wave propagation depending on the properties of the environment."
You will learn a lot of new and interesting things.

[YELLOWSTONE]

re-read the last comment from Nikolaevich I above in this thread

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Grille

The high-explosive effect of the ammunition is determined not only by the mass of explosives, but also by the depth of penetration of the projectile.

I agree, if we keep in mind the optimal (!) Penetration depth of the projectile ...

[Grid]

Ready-made rifling on the leading belt of the projectile allowed to reduce the pressure in the bore and to somewhat thin the walls of the projectile.

Absolutely not. Finished rifling allowed to extend the shells. The maximum length of the projectile is about 5 calibers. With greater elongation, the mass and likelihood of tearing off the girdle correspondingly increase when leading in the bore. Finished rifling they have a large area, again made of more durable material, which seems to make it possible to get a longer, and therefore more powerful projectile. But everything is very far from so simple. And in fact, this is the path leading to a dead end.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Grille

Absolutely not.

these lines (Ready rifling on the leading belt of the projectile allowed to reduce the pressure in the bore and to thin the walls of the projectile somewhat.) taken from the article in g. "Equipment and weapons" ......

Quote: Grille

Finished rifling allowed to extend the shells

It’s quite possible .... True, the “NONA” rifled shells do not stand out in particular length, but your words reminded me of shells using ERFB technology ...

[Grid]

True, the "NONA" rifled shells do not stand out by their special length,

From "NONA" no one did a child prodigy. This is a rather specific weapon for specific troops. Nothing more.

[YELLOWSTONE]

but it turned out a very good thing

[Grid]

but it turned out a very good thing

Well, for some time, uttered a decent thought ...

From "NONA" no one did a child prodigy.

That's exactly what came of it.

[YELLOWSTONE]

someone else wrote

Quote: Grille

This is a rather specific weapon for specific troops. Nothing more.

for any troops a very good thing

[Grid]

for any troops a very good thing

Well, for motorized rifle units 2C1 and 2C3 are much more interesting.
And 2C9 is a very specific thing.

[YELLOWSTONE]

and how can they shoot like a mine?

[Grid]

Shell 155mm Charbantier.
Yes, and almost all 30s were played with us.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Grille

Shell 155mm Charbantier.
Yes, and almost all 30s were played with us.

It was ...... like with polygonal trunks and shells, sub-caliber shells ..... now they prefer this ...

[Grid]

.NONA. 120 mm 3OF49 projectile: projectile weight-19,8 kg; BB-4,9 kg
6.NONA.120-mm projectile 3ОФ51: projectile weight-19,8 kg; BB-3,8 kg

These are shells, not mines.
A 120mm mortar mortar has a mass of 13 to 18 kg. ! 8 kg is a very reinforced mine.
You just won’t throw ammunition weighing more than 20 kg into the barrel ...

[Nikolaevich I]

I agree .... but I had in mind the principle! (ERFB shells ...)

[Grid]

but I had in mind the principle!

The mortar mine has a completely different balance, a completely different stabilization system. Accordingly, it has a completely different mass and penetrating ability.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: Grille

The mortar mine has a completely different balance, a completely different stabilization system.

And what do we mean by "mortar mine"? "A classic feathered mine, or what? In an unofficial" terminology, "by" mortar mine "is meant, most often, an feathered mine for a smooth-bore mortar. The conversation began with" rifled "shells (artillery mines) to the NONA gun ..." Rifled "shells (artillery mines) to the NONA gun and ERFB artillery shells with centering protrusions on the hull combine the stabilization method (rotation). Thanks to their full-living shape and centering protrusions, ERFB shells are made longer than" traditional ".... this is the question: how to lengthen sleep row to rifled gun ....

[Grid]

So what?
And with this projectile, is it possible to fire with an elevation angle of over 50º and on a reduced charge?
Somehow it is doubtful ...

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, about the limits on elevation for the ERFB projectile I do not know. I can only say that in the technical characteristics of artillery equipment (with ERFB in the ammunition and elevation angle of St. 60) I did not meet any restrictions ...

[Grid]

Well, about the limits on elevation for the ERFB projectile I do not know.

Well, it's just that you are not aware of such a discipline as external ballistics.

[Nikolaevich I]

Yes, you’re right ... I didn’t seriously engage in ballistics. And what I once read was a long time ago ... much has been forgotten.

[Curious]

In 1964, in France, the Thomson-Brandt company began mass production of a 120-mm rt-61 mortar. The mortar was created according to the classical scheme of an imaginary triangle and differed from other 120-mm mortars only in its large weight. The highlight of the RT-61 mortar was a mine, but in fact - an artillery shell with ready-made protrusions on the leading belts. In some ways, this was a return to the systems of the 50-60s of the XIX century.
A 120-mm French mortar RT-61 and several tens of mines were delivered to TsNIITOCHMASH and the State Special Design Bureau (later the Basalt NPO). There were carried out explosions of ammunition without firing (in armor and sectors). The results of these tests confirmed that the “rifled” shell for a mortar is 2–2,5 times higher than the ordinary firing mine in the affected area. By the power of a 120-mm rifled high-explosive fragmentation shell, it turned out to be close to a conventional 152-mm howitzer shell
The French, by the way, when they advertised their mortar, stated that its mines were not inferior to a regular 155-mm high-explosive shell in terms of effectiveness.

[domokl]

In the photo, this mortar is

[YELLOWSTONE]

the rifled mine has higher accuracy, smooth does not shoot along the mortar path

[Grid]

Quote: YELLOWSTONE

smooth does not drag along the mortar path

Wow, the men don’t know ...

[YELLOWSTONE]

so doesn’t shoot at mortar or not?

[Grid]

so doesn’t shoot at mortar or not?

Nuka tensed up and give out to the mountain the definition of a "mortar" trajectory.

[YELLOWSTONE]

ask the author

The gun, which is a mortar when firing on the "mortar" trajectory.

However, judging by your picture above, it will be useless

[Grid]

the hand does not drag along the mortar path

The definition of the "mortar" trajectory did not hear ...
Personally from you ...

[YELLOWSTONE]

for a definition by an author whose statement is incorrect

[Grid]

0
YELLOWSTONE (Supervolcano) May 18, 2018 18:20 ↑
the rifled mine has higher accuracy, smooth does not shoot along the mortar path

Baby, your comment?

[YELLOWSTONE]

my, then what? again nonsense in pictures about the fact that the mortar is a mortar?

[Grid]

my, then what?

Well, you mean just a baby.
So zheltokamushkin, INNA ..

[YELLOWSTONE]

children confuse mortar with mortars, or is it designed for children

[Grid]

children confuse mortar with mortars, or is it designed for children

Well, not baby, tell me the difference between a mortar and a mortar.

[YELLOWSTONE]

you should be more interested in the difference in the trajectory

[Grid]

Quote: YELLOWSTONE

you should be more interested in the difference in the trajectory

No. I'm more interested in the definition of a "mortar" trajectory and how it differs from a "mortar" one.
This understanding, you, baby, I'm worried ...

[YELLOWSTONE]

It seems you are in one word preoccupied it may be for a reason
about the "mortar" trajectory to the author, the mortar has it like a howitzer

[Grid]

0
YELLOWSTONE (Supervolcano) May 18, 2018 18:20 ↑
the rifled mine has higher accuracy, smooth does not shoot along the mortar path

Your?
Your. Answer my question.

[YELLOWSTONE]

and what do you understand in the quotation?

[Grid]

The question has long been asked. I do not see the answer.

[YELLOWSTONE]

You quoted the answer twice already
asking him a question

[Grid]

Baby, I can quote the answer at least a hundred times.
What will you answer?

[YELLOWSTONE]

again the same

[garri-lin]

Vienna to the troops. And more. And it's time to upgrade.

[max702]

Quote: garri-lin

Vienna to the troops. And more. And it's time to upgrade.

Expensive!! We’re better than Kuznetsov’s modernization, and after a couple of trips he’ll get up for another repair .. and don’t argue for the country it’s more important, the infantry will be killed, we have a lot of infantry, and ONE aircraft carrier!

[strannik1985]

the infantry will be killed, we have a lot of infantry,

That's only in the hostilities, our aircraft carrier took an occasional part, and the army is fighting almost constantly.
Your logic is amusing.

[faiver]

there is such a thing, called "sarcasm" ...

[rfilatov]

NONA is an abbreviation and stands for "The Newest Land Artillery Gun", this name was given when it was adopted in 1981, therefore it was always written in capital letters in full, while the name Nona has only the first letter in capital letters. I first saw this system in 1984, on the KVAKU half-hill near Belomut.

[domokl]

It is this theory that many now claim. Only 100% truthfulness is no such version.

[Nikolaevich I]

Quote: rfilatov

NONA is an abbreviation and stands for "The Newest Land Artillery Gun,"

Yes, there is some inconvenience in the name of the type of guns .... There are guns, howitzers, mortars, guns-howitzers, howitzers-guns ... But gun-howitzer-mortar-is "pronounced" for a long time! I suggested on one site: "One Gun" .... In response, I had the option: "Unicorn" (in memory of an old Russian gun. Which was (according to some sources ...) a howitzer gun ... I agreed to Unicorn

[strannik1985]

Quote: faiver

there is such a thing, called "sarcasm" ...

Fucking is sarcasm, gives blood.

[domokl]

Do not take it to heart ... It always has been and will be. The vision of war is completely different for those who are in the trenches and for those who are in Tashkent ... Far from the battle, blood is perceived differently ... It is just red and that's it. It's in the trench she's twinning blood ...

[tchoni]

But you can only produce mortars of small and medium caliber. The production of large calibers requires a sufficiently high industrial and scientific potential.

That's what I watch ikhvans from the IG with the help of "ala-besmellya", water pipes and home cylinders "bolonomety" do their own, which are not inferior to battleships in caliber ....
In general, the mistake of "Nona" and its descendants is their tank appearance, which, it seems to me, life seriously complicates the calculation and does not give any advantages.

[Grid]

YELLOWSTONE,
For firing a mine in the motorized rifle battalion there are mortars. And in assortment.

[YELLOWSTONE]

but they don’t know how, and move fast too

[Grid]

but they don’t know how

Baby, why don’t they know how?

[YELLOWSTONE]

still ride for armor and in the conditions of protection against omp
Did the baby serve? Kalashnikov store charged at least once, or only from his hunting SVT?