Under 9x19 mm. US Army interested in submachine guns

The American army again became interested in machine pistols. The US Department of Defense requested information on subcompact arms (Sub Compact Weapons (SCW), reports "Warspot" with reference to the magazine Popular Mechanics

The document does not contain requirements on the size and weight of the weapon, but it also indicates the caliber and describes a possible set of accessories.

М3 - the last submachine gun adopted by the American army

The weapon must have a caliber 9 × 19 mm and will be equipped with a standard bar MIL-STD-1913 (Picatinny). In addition, it is indicated that a new weapon should have the ability to install silencers and fasteners for a weapon belt. In this case, the weapon must shoot both in automatic and in semi-automatic modes. These requirements are fully consistent with the class of weapons, known as submachine guns (PP). Companies must submit their offers before May 18. Based on the data obtained, the military department will select models for pilot procurement or will announce a full-fledged tender with detailed specifications.

According to unofficial information, the new PP may partially replace the M4 rifles in connection with the planned transition of the army to the new main caliber 6,8 mm. Thus, the new small arms and ammunition will be heavier than the currently used X-NUMX caliber weapons, so servicemen who are not actively participating in hostilities will be re-equipped.

The last time the American army was arming machine guns in 1943. Then it was M3, who broke the “monopoly” of the Thompson submachine gun.

Comments

[ANCIENT]

Such weapons are good precisely for close combat, in the village, so to speak, face-to-face combat! So, they change tactics, and as a result of this, a variant of the war against Iran or North Korea is possible, or against us.

[Shurik70]

But are there really effective silencers for PP of this caliber?
You can’t hide the sound there, they’re too fast.

[Sergey ippon]

subsonic cartridge - silencer can extinguish, but the shutter sound also works loudly.
and most importantly, many people especially in films don’t understand - the bullet will hit the target not noiselessly.
especially in the bones - as if with a hammer

[Shurik70]

I suppose if anyone gets a bullet they will notice.
Especially the one who hit

[Sergey ippon]

and if nearby))

[Incvizitor]

Well next to it the sound of hitting and falling body is noticeable anyway ...

[Elk]

Or they will use it for garrison service, and take 6,8 mm for combat

[Alf]

Quote: Elk

Or they will use it for garrison service, and take 6,8 mm for combat

Not serious. Constantly take into account different ballistics will have to.

[Black_Vatnik]

All would be nothing, but only modern realities, on the contrary, dictate a tendency to increase the power of the cartridge. Even on aliexpress you can inexpensively buy SIBZ 3-4 classes, which 9x19 will be like an elephant's shot.
Maximum, they will use these software for weapons of various calculations and for other similar needs, there were shoba. Well, another drink, too, has not been canceled)

[210ox]

Well, I think I can’t decide against us. They have a different "recipe" for Russia .. Money, bribery, "a change of power and course .. In general, what they did in the late 80s ... They don’t go straight military clash with us ..

Quote: ANCIENT

Such weapons are good precisely for close combat, in the village, so to speak, face-to-face combat! So, they change tactics, and as a result of this, a variant of the war against Iran or North Korea is possible, or against us.

[Dead duck]

Quote: ANCIENT

Such weapons are good precisely for close combat, in the village, so to speak, face-to-face combat

The US Army is again interested in submachine guns

and the police have long been using

[jjj]

The shadow of the 7,62X25 cartridge loomed from oblivion

[Alf]

Quote: jjj

The shadow of the 7,62X25 cartridge loomed from oblivion

So he did not leave.

[Warrior with machine gun]

and the army too, a strange statement in the article that the last was m3.

[Doliva63]

Quote: ANCIENT

Such weapons are good precisely for close combat, in the village, so to speak, face-to-face combat! So, they change tactics, and as a result of this, a variant of the war against Iran or North Korea is possible, or against us.

The battle of the assault group (and there were assault battalions and regiments) was worked out by us and the "allies" during the Second World War. There is nothing new in this. Well, didn’t they decide to make the whole army by assault but hard to believe.

[Sergey ippon]

such a bullet has good ballistics.
it is stable at 1km, not inferior to 7.2 at 54 or 51.
at the competition they recommended 6.5 to 57.
here, most likely, the 6.8x43 SPC is Remington - basically not bad, almost 50% stronger than 5.56 by 45.
not inferior to our 7.62 by 39 in terms of slaughter will be superior in heap.

[Sergey ippon]

I made a mistake a little - about 6.8 I got interested and poked about her, call me.
engaged in shooting.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Sergey Ippon

I made a mistake a little - about 6.8 I got interested and poked about her, call me.
engaged in shooting.

When shooting, how do you determine slaughter?

[Sergey ippon]

for this there are tables, reference books.
also takes into account the weight of the bullet, charge, flight speed - the best cartridges collected by yourself.
and how to do shooting without it?

[Doliva63]

Well, having handbooks on hand and shooting you can not do And when the cartridges are assembled by ourselves, directories are no longer needed, because they reflect the results of firing with a regular cartridge Good luck shooting

[Sergey ippon]

immediately visible -you did not shoot.
you can’t even imagine how many factors need to be considered.
I’ll give you reference books, a calculator and a range finder - I’ll argue with a vodka box, you won’t get into a 400 m bottle with SVD (I’ll even calibrate the cartridges)

[Doliva63]

Ours must offer faculty - there is a chance to work late

[APASUS]

According to unofficial information, the new PP can partially replace the M4 rifles

The meaning of replacing the M-4 with a new software is not quite disclosed.

[Glory1974]

The meaning of replacing the M-4 with a new software is not quite disclosed.

So like an automatic rifle is not replaced by a submachine gun.

[Alex777]

The rifle changes by 6,8, and for those who are hard - to 9 mm.

[Sergey ippon]

they want to change the caliber correctly, usually they make a barrel for the caliber, well, or deeply rework.

[Zubr]

We can offer our Russians, we have excellent samples just for this caliber.

[beeper]

Comrade Zubr! Hand on heart, tell me what “excellent samples just for this caliber” do you have that could be offered for the rearmament program of the military men of the army, obviously unfriendly to Russia, “partners” (and does Russia really need to arm its obvious enemies, whether rosum is comfortable ???) ?!
If you mean Russian samples, then personally I don’t see a single one that could satisfy the probable requirements of the US Army, are they for the Russian army like “fishless fish” ?! IMHO

[Zubr]

Well, for example, PP-2000


Why is this sample bad?
And don't forget, this is just a business.

[Zubr]

Or this sample ...

[beeper]

Commends your diligence, comrade Zubr but it’s exactly that “fishless fish” which I wrote to you about above.
PP-2000, except that they were pushed into armament by the authority of Gryazev-Shipunov, contrary to common sense and safety precautions (in the same place above, an unshielded thing is frantically hobbling, hammering back and forth, as it gives an arrow, it will drop PP from pain and surprise ?!), and where to get out of place, horror ?!
They would give me such a gift, I would not pick up this litter, but would you like to offer it for sale? So no one, being with sober memory, will not take this ugly business for good money and outwardly attractive product that you can quickly and profitably sell, and not such a miserable "stucco molding"!
PP “Vityaz” in size and weight of the AK is also useless (and especially for demanding customers who have a wide choice), it’s not suitable, such a palliative “for bezryby”, alas!
According to Russian PPs, a completely sad picture turns out, whatever you take (except that “Cedar” is “Wedge”, but they are not under Luger cartridges, alas)! IMHO.

[Tank hard]

This "whistle" in them occurs periodically. Either M1 / ​​M2 carbine under .30 "carbine", then "ingram" wanted to replace pistols ... When there is enough dough, you can experiment.

[Dormidont]

To massively kill unarmed old people, women and children

[beeper]

They will not have such an easy death, alas!
Plyusanul for your understanding of the mass casualties, but neither American aggressors, nor their henchmen will shoot at women, old people and children — such (like prisoners of war, and their own wounded lackeys) are now being cut into “biological parts” for the “golden billion” -practically "waste-free technologies" have already been tested ... miserable "biowaste" from the "disassembly" are burned in mobile crematoria and no trace. everything is "missing."
The "dismantling" of living and corpses, the "preparation of transplants" are carried out by the contracted medical staff from the "third world countries", which are also periodically "updated", disposing of them right there at the "workplace" as a guarantee from "information drains" (as the Nazis did with the service staff of the shooting pits and crematoria!).
Be realistic, comrade Dormidont! If you believe one German transplantologist (a German two-part documentary on the Body for Sale network) associated with the US headquarters, one fresh human corpse "at retail" brings up to $ 1,5 million in profit to the firm ?! So who will scatter such money, and even shoot-spoil the gratuitous "live goods" from the occupied territories, because even the "high moral" "white helmets" of the captured Syrian children are alive and "transplanted" without violating the "first freshness .." .-everything was done in the interests of saving the sick "universal people" and the engaged "world public" was silent, of course, not indignant at such cynical atrocities ?!

[colonel manuch]

Nonsense, we have better designs and better ones, and even the Jews have no better “ultrasound” modifications.

[beeper]

What can be said about this? The Americans really look at things and have already played enough with all sorts of PDV for special patrons, realized that the good old Luger 9x19mm provides most of the tasks facing auxiliary weapons and it is possible to replenish ammunition even from captured ammunition, since it is also used in Russia!
And the fact that the Americans are intensely preparing to fight with Russia is not even in doubt!
Yes, they especially do not hide their aggressive intentions, hoping, probably, this time to finally solve the "Russian question" ?!

[Tank hard]

Quote: pishchak

And the fact that the Americans are intensely preparing to fight with Russia is not even in doubt

I wonder how? Given that Russia has nuclear weapons.

[beeper]

Comrade Tank Hard, would gladly share your optimism!
But, alas, the calculation is based on the fact that Russia's nuclear weapons will be maximally neutralized and only miserable crumbs will reach the States themselves! Although the United States is not at all sorry for the ruling circles (who have prepared safe havens) for themselves, the more so that the likely death of a certain number of civilians in North America will only be in their hands (after all, after the war, food resources will be limited), to justify the reasons their preventive aggression against Russia (after all, Hitler claimed the same thing — he attacked the USSR supposedly to prevent an impending attack on Germany), and they won’t even have to blow up the next “twin towers” ​​or drop a nuclear bomb on some thread of their town. ..

[Tank hard]

Quote: pishchak

Comrade Tank Hard, would gladly share your optimism!

Yes, this is not optimism. I believe that quite a significant amount will fly to the states (well, or they will swim ..). What will make life in their country "unacceptable." I don’t think they can neutralize. The option of changing the leader, more realistic, what will happen later, is approximately described in the work of Berkem al Atomi “The Marauder”, the fantasy is finite, but Jules Verne also wrote science fiction ... A fairy tale is a lie, but a hint in it, good fellows are a lesson!

[beeper]

Well, and how can the States, without warfare in Europe, without global overwhelming, “nullify” their external debt and turn the course of history in their own direction?
The calculation is based on the fact that the use of nuclear weapons will be limited and the damage to the North American continent will be knowingly lower than what Europe and Eurasia will suffer ?!
The Americans also have the population of South America, which has not much left slavery, which is much cheaper and more profitable to exploit than its own, corrupted by "democratic freedoms" , who said that the slave system cannot be reincarnated under the conditions of humanity literally “bombed into the cave age”?
Yes, the world will change a lot, but Washington leaders see their future dominant role in a changed world, so they are relentlessly unleashing the Third World, gathering “big battalions” on their side, creating, like Hitler, an aggressive preponderance of the forces of Russo-hating “universal people” (some were colonized and made their puppets, some are simply intimidated by the nonexistent "Russian threat", and the rest "pan-Europeans" - former Hitler accomplices are eager to get even with the heiress of the Soviet Union for their past defeats).
After all, Napoleon also believed that the main thing was to get involved in the battle, and there the course of the battle itself would show the way to victory ...

[Tank hard]

Well, I don’t really want to argue, I do not consider myself an expert. But I don’t think that they want nuclear war there (the bunker is not the Hawaiian islands, but it’s boring in it, and canned goods get bored quickly). The states did not wage a single war on their territory, I think that they will not. It is quite enough to unleash a bunch of warfare in the world and while people are zeroing out each other, zeroing out their external debt. However, I repeat, I'm not an expert even once. As for Russia, I think like Cooper, they missed their chance in 1945 +, years. I could be wrong ..
PS "Marauder" read, if not read. An interesting book.

[beeper]

Thank you, Comrade Tank Hard! Like, I read The Marauder, shota familiar name if not, I’ll read, I’m intrigued ?!
Lived in the shoes of these reptiles ("far vision", like the "universal information field", objectively exists (IMHO), you only need to "tune in" , sometimes it succeeds with neighbors ... sometimes with distant ones too ), tried to feel, think in their thoughts ... they are not afraid of the consequences, they believe that "they will not get the move," since the USA in the last world wars only accumulated resources more than they spent ... Russia for them “sticking out a nail”, causing considerable problems, hoping to “hammer” Russia, to intimidate and pacify the rest of the world, in addition, the jackpot, in the form of huge natural and material resources, is very tempting, and the business thing is to decapitate the country's leadership with an unexpected blow, "red buttons" and disorganize controls! Suppressing focal resistance is not such a big problem, in addition, local pro-American "agents of influence" in the territory (and in the leadership of the identity, al no ?!) Russia is full! Everything can be decided very, very fast! For the "hegemon", some losses among the Eurosatellites and even their citizens do not count!
The European infrastructure is prepared for long-term hostilities only in case of a malfunction in the main plan or, most likely, to divert eyes like "we are not yet ready for war", and this is Russia not ready, alas, I am observing unprincipled confusion and vacillations in Russian society! Sorry if I'm not mistaken!

[gladcu2]

They do not need Russia.

They have their own internal affairs.

[Tank hard]

Quote: gladcu2

They do not need Russia.

In the words of Stanislavsky (?) - I do not believe it!

Quote: gladcu2

They have plenty of their internal affairs

No, well, let them learn Spanish, broadens the mind.

[beeper]

Comrade Gladcu2, precisely because of the accumulated internal problems and the gigantic foreign debt of the United States, we need another world war, because the first two were only good for them ?!
Here, either Russia or China will be the first to be hooked, but in all cases the States are better off starting with Russia and they have already started this war, only the blind can not see it!

[Kot_Kuzya]

According to unofficial information, the new PPs can partially replace the M4 rifles in connection with the planned transition of the army to the new main caliber of 6,8 mm. Thus, the new small arms and ammunition will be heavier than the currently used 5,56 mm caliber weapons, so military personnel who are not actively involved in hostilities will be rearmament

Notably Bablishko sawing at the Pentagon. Serdyukov, compared with the generals of the US Department of Defense, is simply a small bribe taker of a regional scale.