Military Review

US media: Russia's technological backwardness will push India to F-35

303
In the Indian media, once again a discussion has been taken on how to keep up with the equipment of modern fighters from China’s main geopolitical rival. On the portal Indian Defense News about this article is discussed the American network publication "Strategy Page" under the name "India: F-35 and a pipe dream." The submission says that at the moment India faced with the need Consider purchasing F-35 fighter jets from the USA.


From the article:
India is faced with the need to consider buying F-35 if it is going to get stealth fighters corresponding to those that China already produces for itself and which Pakistan plans to contract.


Further, in the American media, referred to by the Indian portal, it is stated that in such a situation, one should “blame Russia”, which “cannot keep up with the development of modern combat aircraft and military equipment in general”.

From the material:
That is why India was forced to tell Russia that it would not buy Su-57. She lost confidence in the program for the implementation of the project of this aircraft. This project is behind the schedule, while the Chinese already have one stealth fighter in the service. American F-35 receives good reviews (...) At the moment, Indian officials refuse to talk about buying F-35. But this will not change the situation in which India will be, if Su-57 does not become a rival even to Chinese stealth fighters of the new generation.


US media: Russia's technological backwardness will push India to F-35


Further, in the material of the American media, it is stated that Indian pilots allegedly expressed disappointment with the Russian development of the Su-57. At the same time, it was stated that the Indian Air Force officers allegedly have a direct "experience with the Su-57."

From the material:
Su-57 is currently lacking the necessary engines, sensors and electronic combat and communications systems promised by the Russians. Worse, the Russians refused to be open with their development partner, and this may have been the main reason for abandoning Su-57.


Thus, the American media are engaged in frank attempts to push F-35 into the Indian market, despite the fact that the US is clearly not going to transfer the relevant technologies to New Delhi, and despite the fact that when you buy F-35, India will have to rebuild all the existing logistics before the logistics of the use of aircraft tankers.
Photos used:
Facebook
303 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. A good one
    A good one 13 May 2018 15: 24
    +11
    All tricks are good to suck in your technique. The word is India.
    1. Wild_grey_wolf
      Wild_grey_wolf 13 May 2018 15: 26
      +9
      They themselves believe in what they write.
      At least one sensible person can understand the validity of these letters.

      Well, except for the author of the article, Su-57 and dancing with a wallet. . . that exception can and writes, as pure truth.
      1. MPN
        MPN 13 May 2018 15: 49
        +8
        Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
        They themselves believe in what they write.

        They write what they say and the more they write, the more they believe ... request
        And with all this, the Yankees manage to threaten Turkey with the refusal of supplies of F-35 ... No.
        1. Shurik70
          Shurik70 13 May 2018 20: 02
          0
          India is an extremely volatile partner and loves to mix immiscible.
          They until the last moment will fluctuate between the Su-57, F-35, and even China will try to create hope to buy its fighter. But in the end, he will buy Su-35 and F / A-18, in small quantities.
      2. Sergerius
        Sergerius 13 May 2018 16: 04
        +1
        [/ i] Wild_Grey_Wolf (Vladimir) Today, 15:26 PM ↑ New
        [i] They themselves then believe in what they write.
        At least one sensible person can understand the validity of these letters.
        Well, except for the author of the article, Su-57 and dancing with a wallet. . . that exception can and writes, as pure truth.



        They work out money, an order from the government.
      3. Tusv
        Tusv 13 May 2018 16: 54
        +3
        At least one sensible person can understand the validity of these letters.

        Scrolling through a Public Relations tutorial. The first two levels. This is black PR. So we voted for Boris. The fact that here is a white PR 4 level. At the very end there is described "Resistance from a competitor"
    2. svp67
      svp67 13 May 2018 15: 30
      +7
      Quote: Not bad
      All tricks are good to suck in your technique.

      Including prohibited ... especially in the issue of "vtyuhivaniya". Otherwise, this business cannot be called. And I understand the Americans, they are trying in every possible way to reduce their expenses for this project. But what is our position? With the project of the joint Russian-Indian military transport aircraft Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA), we have already flown.
      1. Dam
        Dam 13 May 2018 16: 18
        +3
        Just one of the project participants refused to pay for it
        1. mr.Vain
          mr.Vain 13 May 2018 18: 25
          +5
          As for our backwardness, I would argue, well, in America, too, are not fools, and they make good equipment.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 18: 46
            +6
            Why is it so outstanding? decades and millions took to repeat the movements of a drunk loader lol
      2. Berkut24
        Berkut24 13 May 2018 16: 59
        +4
        With the project of the joint Russian-Indian military transport aircraft Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA), we have already flown.

        The situation, to put it mildly, is not quite like that. Indians always have their own kind of parallel view of things. They do not have the necessary combat experience, and therefore their task managers begin to fantasize, trying to combine the incompatible in a combat unit. What the Indians wanted in the framework of the joint project was not necessary for us. Nobody in the world needs this, because a mixture of a bulldog with a rhino does not make the car better. The same crap with the Su-57. Or external suspension, or stealth ....
        All these refusals from joint projects lead to the only option - the purchase of ready-made "right" equipment. Ours are now slowly moving on the topic of IL-276, and we'll see there.
        By the way, the Ilyushin residents have not yet officially received a refusal from the Indians by the project.
    3. dorz
      dorz 13 May 2018 15: 32
      +6
      Quote: Not bad
      All tricks are good to suck in your technique. The word is India.

      American marketers are not in vain getting their salary. Russian companies also need to post paid articles in interested countries criticizing American products.
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher 14 May 2018 03: 30
        +1
        Quote: dorz
        Russian companies also need to post paid articles in interested countries criticizing American products.

        To do this, they created the NI, which domestic media love to refer to, only the "analysts" of NI are terribly incompetent, which even patriots notice.
    4. Vadivak
      Vadivak 13 May 2018 15: 40
      +6
      Quote: Not bad
      Word for India

      Read Ransomware Ransomware
      1. svp67
        svp67 13 May 2018 16: 45
        +1
        Quote: Vadivak
        Read Ransomware Ransomware

        And is this some kind of “discovery” for us? So no.
        Let’s “give them” Navalny ... we’ll see how he fights “corruption” there ...
        1. rocket757
          rocket757 13 May 2018 17: 17
          +5
          But shaw, our military products do not find their customers? The one that is READY to operate and EFFECTIVE! We are not the only ones selling Kalashi to the world!
          We’ll see, especially since India always shakes and then buys anyway! And not because there is no choice, but because our weapons are EFFECTIVE.
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 13 May 2018 18: 00
            +2
            US media: Russia's technological backwardness will push India to F-35
            Yes, everyone already knows that PAK FA is tuned with mounting foam and putty SU-27 ... laughing
  2. ANCIENT
    ANCIENT 13 May 2018 15: 27
    +13
    Urrapatriotic, and mediocre ordering from the military-industrial complex of the United States! Exceptional Yankees imposed their aircraft stock on many countries of the world, but for many years to come it will be really unsuitable. Fair competition, this is not about the United States.
    1. 210ox
      210ox 13 May 2018 15: 32
      +8
      Yes, do not care about them. The main thing is that our aircraft would be combat-ready. Including the Su-57.
      Quote: ANCIENT
      Urrapatriotic, and mediocre ordering from the military-industrial complex of the United States! Exceptional Yankees imposed their aircraft stock on many countries of the world, but for many years to come it will be really unsuitable. Fair competition, this is not about the United States.
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 13 May 2018 17: 24
        +4
        Advertise, yes figs on them.
        Everything is relative. And so is their “penguin” deficiency, though very expensive, our SU is not ready yet, for the price it’s not clear either. There is really nothing to compare NOW.
        For the fact that in the case of military equipment everything is learned in battle ... oh, I don’t want to, but to compare in another way ??? there is little to no objectivity.
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 13 May 2018 19: 01
      +5
      Quote: ANCIENT
      for many years to come it will be really unsuitable.

      The Israelis announced the operational readiness of the first F-35 squadron. And as if he had already taken part in military actions.
      How true this is is not known. But, if the Penguin really has an EPR 0,1 sq m, then this is serious for long-range air combat. It is necessary to do something, and not to smear the snot on the windshield of the lamp. Need a car, at least not inferior to him on the technology of "stealth". Otherwise, super-maneuverability - super-maneuverability, but realistically, not Penguin, will have to dodge the attack from a great distance. What I sincerely would not want to.
      IMHO.
  3. Seaflame
    Seaflame 13 May 2018 15: 29
    +20
    There are directions where we are ahead, there are where we are behind. Therefore, enough money to spend on all sorts of stupid Olympics and the World Cup in football. Not to fat ...
  4. Nord2015
    Nord2015 13 May 2018 15: 31
    +5
    Common Indian practice in the arms market. Like a capricious bride, she’s going through all the grooms. In principle, nothing new, they have such a mentality. It is necessary to cooperate more with Islamabad and Beijing, then Delhi will decrease its whims.
  5. nikoliski
    nikoliski 13 May 2018 15: 31
    +16
    F 35 is a really good machine, a lot of innovations in it (infrared sensors detecting missile launch for a hundred km without turning on the radar), a lift screw (for the marine version) that allows the EPR to hang and take off (take off) vertically (this is already the land version) less than Su -57, the plane is not bad and if India had money, I would advise them to buy a hundred F35, then they will be much stronger than Pakistan, and China will not unambiguously treat them, the only thing you need to do in India is (under license) like this the Japanese and Israel want, not trusting the United States (you never know what kind of firmware they put into the computer, there is a centric system, in theory you can take control from a remote computer)
    1. ANCIENT
      ANCIENT 13 May 2018 15: 33
      +11
      Lift screw or fan ??? belay
      1. Mih1974
        Mih1974 13 May 2018 16: 53
        +3
        And also the "rusty aluminum case", only the USA mastered such an innovative achievement laughing laughing no one knows how to "rust" luminium. Conjugant paint, supposedly anti-radar.
        And the "hoisting" one is a crane. tongue
    2. Seaflame
      Seaflame 13 May 2018 15: 36
      +5
      Nikolai, you cut without anesthesia ...
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 15: 47
        +3
        yeah especially
        Quote: nikoliski
        F 35 really good car

        lol especially those with hook and fan
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 13 May 2018 19: 15
          +4
          Quote: YELLOWSTONE
          F 35 really good car
          especially those with hook and fan

          Damn, laughter is good !!!
          The bad is different: they can do these verticals on any UDC / DKVP up to 22 units. to place, as well as bulk carriers, having equipped the take-off platform ... And this is already serious in the struggle for supremacy at sea ...
          However, so “Daggers” for all may not be enough!
          1. Kasym
            Kasym 13 May 2018 19: 51
            +4
            Alexander, maybe they can, but it will be difficult to deploy service at such sites. After each flight, the software on the F-35 is updated, if I understand correctly. Yes, and the traction armament on this version is weak (even AP only in the container version) with a radius of action, I think, no more than 500 km. hi
          2. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 09
            0
            aviation equipment is also serviced on corvettes or LCS (helicopters and tiltrotoplanes), the fact is that both of these planes turned out so that they cry from UDC for maintenance and even laugh at AV from landings fellow
      2. poquello
        poquello 13 May 2018 15: 52
        +2
        Quote: Seaflame
        Nikolai, you cut without anesthesia ...

        he raves, but with or without anesthesia, he knows better
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS 13 May 2018 15: 43
      +10
      Quote: nikoliski
      EPR (this is already the land option) less than the Su-57

      Seriously? Did you take the measurements yourself or who helped?
      Quote: nikoliski
      the plane is not bad and if India has money I would advise them to buy a hundred F35,

      F-35 junk rare. Let's just say this is a budget option, for those countries that cannot afford to create their own new generation fighter.
      And by and large, all these statements that this machine is simply a miracle of the US aviation industry than confirmed? Did he meet somewhere in the air battle with other samples of the opposite side?
      You like Lightning, but for God's sake. And understanding whether this is junk or a miracle the plane will show a real air battle. And something tells me that what will happen next will not greatly disturb the mattresses, since they are already sucking in this underfighter, if possible, to everyone they reach.
      1. Tusv
        Tusv 13 May 2018 17: 27
        +3
        Quote: NEXUS
        You like Lightning, but for God's sake. And understanding whether this is junk or a miracle the plane will show a real air battle.

        Andryukha !. And what is modern air combat? Yes, the third generation pepelats eats you, if there are no target designations from the ground or from AWACS. Accordingly, the costs there are unmeasured. Penny refuelers hi And technology. Vaughn in P-12 right on the database pulls out the block, you see that it doesn’t rattle, you change the lamp, light up with your foot and again the combat-ready beauty hi
      2. nikoliski
        nikoliski 13 May 2018 19: 44
        +5
        India just doesn’t want to wait another 10 years to wait for the Su-57 (there the Chinese are already riveting their fives), but of the F-35 cars that are currently being sold, the most optimal option (the American military-industrial complex is riveting hundreds of them until the Su-57 creeps into the series with an engine surge , then what else (probably as Armata will reach the "limited" series and will end) at that time, the Americans will stamp thousands of planes for NATO (there, if you take orders with American ones that mean replacing the F-16 with 3000 pieces, this is years of work and money, he he’ll beat himself off, well, but there’s different breakdowns, is there something new that’s not breaking? I immediately remembered the UAZ, which Putin was shown with a pen that fell off (I’ll keep silent about Armata who had died out on Red Square, and everyone has talked about it, let alone the patriots now they will start shouting how much this is all untrue, but in fact we are doing the best largus and news in the world (my colleague bought a new Grant and repaired it several times, which is probably why Poland gets rid of the T-72 by purchasing German Leopards, which I wouldn’t break down (while we were traveling to “fight” with Georgia, a third of the armored vehicles broke under Kodor and they didn’t even enter the battle! Why do you think the rearmament program was immediately adopted? although now cotton blankets will fly at me — I’m screaming at least) The blades for turbines finally learned how to make themselves (while the planes are), and the turbine that went to replace Siemens, made by Rusnano, fell apart on tests, most of all in our hooded programs the phrases are the best, not having analogs (probably people who don’t know some of the nuances can buy it), for example, about Poplar M they shouted that there are no analogues in the world at all, but is it anything that these “analogs” have been walking in Chinese forests for a long time, and what about Yars with RGCh? Cotton hatchery strongly resembles 41 years old (probably we will again beat everyone on their territory with little blood? But for now the barmalei who do not even have air defense systems, not to mention aviation, drive the desert for the third year to no avail)
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 13 May 2018 20: 10
          +1
          Rivets in hundreds - this is certainly cool. But how many of these hundreds are really combat-ready, and how many are waiting for improvements? And what about technology? If the Americans did not convey anything serious to their NATO sixes, do you think they will trust the Indians?
    4. poquello
      poquello 13 May 2018 15: 50
      +6
      Quote: nikoliski
      infrared sensors detecting for one hundred km the launch of missiles without turning on the radar

      oh, I always wanted to know how these sensors distinguish the launch of rockets in a hundred from a lit match in a dozen
      1. san4es
        san4es 13 May 2018 16: 22
        +5
        Quote: poquello
        ... find out how these sensors distinguish the launch of rockets in a hundred from a lit match in a dozen

        hi ... For various parameters:
        ... the main problem in the design of missile attack warning stations is not to ensure the ability to detect radiation (signals) from a rocket, but to reliably identify their source. It’s crucial for the station’s developers day to be able to identify signs by which the electromagnetic radiation (torch) of the rocket can be distinguished from other energy sources located on the ground. The task is to select the radiation frequency band containing the largest amount of information necessary to distinguish the rocket torch from other energy sources in the field of view of the station sensors. To date, no complex of signs has been found in any radiation frequency band that would guarantee a 100% probability of detection with zero probability of false alarms. This limits the choice of a particular section of the electromagnetic spectrum as having clear advantages over its other sections. Currently, two types of optoelectronic sensors are installed at MAWS-type stations: infrared and ultraviolet ...
        ... Further here:
        http://militaryarticle.ru/zarubezhnoe-voennoe-obo
        zrenie / 2002-zvo / 6853-aviacionny
        ...

        ... sorry for the quality of the table hi
        1. poquello
          poquello 13 May 2018 21: 43
          +1
          Quote: san4es
          To date, no complex of signs has been found in any radiation frequency band that would guarantee a 100% probability of detection with zero probability of false alarms.

          Well, as it were, and the range there is 15km
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 13
            +1
            Over 100 km, detect a source of infrared radiation? What sensitivity should the matrix be? And its size? vague doubts torment me
      2. Captain Pushkin
        Captain Pushkin 13 May 2018 16: 28
        +2
        Quote: poquello
        Quote: nikoliski
        infrared sensors detecting for one hundred km the launch of missiles without turning on the radar

        oh, I always wanted to know how these sensors distinguish the launch of rockets in a hundred from a lit match in a dozen

        The radiation spectrum uniquely determines the temperature of the object. A match and a torch of a rocket or jet engine have a very different spectrum.
        1. poquello
          poquello 13 May 2018 22: 00
          +1
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          The radiation spectrum uniquely determines the temperature of the object. A match and a torch of a rocket or jet engine have a very different spectrum.

          how different? and scintillation and scattering per 100km type do not affect?
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 13 May 2018 19: 33
        +4
        Quote: poquello
        oh, I always wanted to know how these sensors distinguish the launch of rockets in a hundred from a lit match in a dozen

        Read books - and find out !!!
        On an electronic cloud at rocket launch. Especially ICBMs, which F-35, by the way, can also detect. Therefore, you need to laugh at those who believe in the 21 century in the sky to see the "dog dump" of WWII. The concept - the first I saw, launched the VVBD missile, and faded - it has long been adopted by the US Air Force. Why some of our forum users cannot understand this is a mystery to me.
        I say again: over-maneuverability is wonderful! But you need to seriously look at the detection range of inconspicuous B-targets, the launch range of missiles, and the means of counteracting the detection of the side. And, based on this analysis, to sing war songs!
        And further. Recently I looked at the infrared signatures of our and Amsk cars ... There was sadness all day ... But the OLS works precisely on them, and damn it, in passive! So, believe me, we have something to work on.
        Somehow, however.
        1. poquello
          poquello 13 May 2018 22: 04
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Especially the ICBMs

          For a larger mass of thrown cargo, more energy is required - this is elementary. Accordingly, etc.
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Somehow, however.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 15
            +1
            However, a ballistic intercontinental missile and an air-to-air missile have slightly different sizes, weight and flight path.
            1. poquello
              poquello 15 May 2018 00: 15
              0
              Quote: TermNachTER
              However, a ballistic intercontinental missile and an air-to-air missile have slightly different sizes, weight and flight path.

              they were different in size and heat release, from the word "completely", ICBMs are a big joke that, in order to raise their carcass, spews a huge amount of heat.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 15 May 2018 14: 10
                +1
                Duck, and I do the same. It was a comment to the previous speaker. They are both rockets, the currents are slightly different.
      4. nikoliski
        nikoliski 13 May 2018 19: 50
        +1
        Well, we cannot make them with such “specialists”) Russia cannot come up with anything new (Jews in the Soviet Socialist Republic who were responsible for science for a long time in Israel), but what about the Jews, the Koreans made a smartphone the size of a match that bends and charges without wires, well, and our chips are, as always, the BIGGEST chips in the world, sarcasm. If you think a little about a smartphone, its processor in this case is more powerful than our Elbrus, the camera is more qualitative than our reconnaissance aircraft and the 3D screen is bendable with a resolution of 4k (I'm mother I bought our TV, it broke in a year, and the Hungarian LCD Samsung has been plowing with me for 10 years already)
        1. poquello
          poquello 13 May 2018 22: 05
          +2
          Quote: nikoliski
          he has a processor in this case more powerful than our Elbrus

          proofs please or numbers at least
          1. nikoliski
            nikoliski 14 May 2018 00: 54
            0
            Yes, it’s not a question, just look at the frequencies and multi-core of the latest top-line smartphones, by the way there are sites with performance tests, and our Elbrus is made on a microchip (by the way, we bought a license in Taiwan) if it doesn’t change memory at 65 nanometers, and now they rivet under the world the latest video cards are chips of less than 10 nanometers (the smaller the process, the lower the power consumption, heat dissipation and, therefore, a much more efficient chip can be bungled with the same crystal area) in general, look for tests and be unpleasantly surprised (I still say that almost all memory blocks are made by Samsung, as well as the LCD matrix, even for other manufacturers, here you have South Korea small, which has bypassed Russia in nominal GDP (all because the president was given 24 years in prison for some kind of jamb, and we have a caste of untouchable robbers at the top)
            1. poquello
              poquello 14 May 2018 01: 41
              0
              Quote: nikoliski
              at 65 nanometers, and now in the world less than 10 nanometers chips are riveted under the latest video cards

              and where in comparison with warm to soft is present
              Quote: nikoliski
              he has a processor in this case more powerful than our Elbrus,

              ?
              Do you distinguish a CPU from a PV? not? 28 nanometers by the way, 65 is the 14th year - and the goal is mass production, and 10 in the 14th year was already cut - specialized
    5. BastaKarapuzik And
      BastaKarapuzik And 13 May 2018 15: 56
      +4
      Quote: nikoliski
      F 35 is a really good machine, a lot of innovations in it (infrared sensors detecting the launch of a missile for a hundred km without turning on the radar), a lifting screw (for the marine version) that allows the EPR to hang and land (take off) vertically (this is already for the land version)

      You wrote so interestingly, almost like in an advertisement for Chinese bluetooth headphones-
      Different “brand” models had different chips: some played for 45 hours without recharging, the second had a flexible headboard, the third had an aluminum case (in our texts it became “aviation”), the fourth cost 2 rubles.
      "Sell 6 Chinese headphones in a month," or did you think it shot itself?
      We decided to give all these chips a list, without specifying that only certain models have certain things. And so it turned out that, “Brand of headphones, censorship” is:

      - A housing made of aluminum (which has become aviation with our light hand)

      - Work 45 hours without recharging

      - Flexible headboard

      - Built-in MP3 player and FM radio

      - teeth whitening

      - Improved digestion, regular stool

      - Thickness and health of hair

      - 2 rubles!

      Must Take !!!! laughing
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 17
        0
        The T-64 tank, at one time, was also a unique combat vehicle with a bunch of innovations. Until now, "bring to mind" does not work.
        1. nikoliski
          nikoliski 14 May 2018 14: 19
          -1
          By the way, the T64 concept founded a line of tanks, the last of which is the T-90, so the tank, despite its shortcomings, is quite good (not now of course already, but it’s stupid to want the tank to remain the leader for almost 50 years)
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 14 May 2018 15: 25
            0
            I had in mind how many T-64 had childhood sores, and some could not be eliminated even now.
            1. nikoliski
              nikoliski 14 May 2018 15: 56
              -1
              Jumping caterpillars? - on T72 the problem was solved, but about the engines, and the Kharkov diesel is very bad - in Afghanistan, gasped in the mountains, why the T64 was removed from there. The T72 is cheaper (without corundum ceramics with sand instead) more unpretentious, it can be called T34-85 of our time (which is why they are modernizing now by placing a DZ relic and a new gun (under new BPS) thanks to which it can still fight)
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 14 May 2018 16: 00
                +1
                Exactly. So with f - 35 - it may be brought to "mind", or maybe not.
              2. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 14 May 2018 16: 01
                0
                The problem with a very dangerous combat deployment in the Donbas was solved very simply. They just don’t load it.
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 21: 43
                  0
                  and in other cases, it is consumed in the first place
                  SR-71 by the way did not finish
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 00: 09
                    0
                    it was without an almost complete rework and impossible to do
                2. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 14 May 2018 23: 53
                  -1
                  Each tank has certain problems, for example, Abrams has rather thin side armor (in places it breaks out from a 30mm BMP-2 gun) it’s a retribution for very heavy and thick frontal armor (to make a circular arm of such a thickness means to make a stationary Leviathan - an example of Mauss that could not stand not a single highway bridge in Germany was actually a self-propelled Dot, not a tank) The Leclerc French, except for the enormous price (before the appearance of the K2 black panther in South Korea, Leclerc was the most expensive tank) has problems with the automatic loader, which often fails, During the Greek tender, the best Ukrainian tank was not able to pass a series of tests due to breakdowns (I recall that the T80 won in price and quality ahead of Leopard and Abrams and Leclerc.) In general, the quality of the equipment largely determines the number of orders for it, thus the T-90 is a successful tank, India bought more than 1000 units (a little more than even ours) Uganda, Azerbaijan, Algeria, Iraq bought these tanks at It is very attractive for price and quality (install the KAZ Arena E, a cannon from Almaty with prohibitive armor penetration (this is a new Breakthrough that again went to our aircraft) and this tank competes with any Western tank standing 2 times cheaper (already somewhere, but in we constantly keep the “wave” in the tanks, being the legislator of the layouts -T34 with inclined armor, T64 with combined armor and AZ, now Armata with a robotic turret with kaz Afganit and the ability to control the T90-Breakthrough attached in battle)
                3. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 15 May 2018 14: 12
                  0
                  Life has shown that they do not have time to use it up. On the other hand, the same is not fools sitting. Because they charge only in the automatic loader, sorry for the tautology.
                  1. nikoliski
                    nikoliski 15 May 2018 14: 32
                    -1
                    In the Donbass, it’s not just a war, but it’s so incomprehensible that (well, explain to me if the war, why didn’t they cover the funeral procession of Givi (Motorola) with tornadoes, there were hundreds of militias, including the head of the republic, the military parade on May 9 in Donetsk is the same, the war itself there is no between the Armed Forces and the militia, some frostbitten people like Azov and others like them periodically shoot mortars from the outskirts of Donetsk and get answers here is the whole war, and as for the shells in the AZ, there was a tank duel in Tskhinval (if it’s interesting to google the hero of Russia, it seems like the commander got it tank) when our tank ran out of ammunition!)
                    1. TermNachTer
                      TermNachTer 15 May 2018 14: 39
                      0
                      Compared to Tskhinvali, the scales are slightly different. There is a tank duel, and here the tanks periodically beat on the ATGM, then the tank guns. And both sides, since the tanks are the same, know where to beat. Therefore, I prefer to load only in AZ. Shot, handed back, loaded AZ and forward. Everyone wants to live. And if you get into the combat unit, no options whatsoever. Nobody will give serious weapons to those who are covered with manure and other stubborn ones. There are few "tornadoes" and the BC to them is even less.
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 15: 37
                        -1
                        Are you Ukrainian? (Flag) I’m glad that you still have adequate, sober people like you. And then one recently wrote to me that we say Russian animals and further in the same vein, and this is only because I wrote that Tyson as a boxer is much more greater than Lomachenko, you would have seen what started, it was like crazy (no wonder they say that Svidomo is a kind of obsession and looks like schizophrenia)
    6. ML-334
      ML-334 13 May 2018 16: 23
      0
      Thanks for the enlightenment - Nicolas BABA and without the Swedes - you never know what kind of firmware they can stick in, of course, under a license.
      1. nikoliski
        nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 53
        -1
        Israel and Japan will make electronics for f35 themselves (at their plants and with their programmers, who are no worse than in the USA)
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 16 May 2018 09: 24
          +1
          It is somehow doubtful to write software for on-board electronics without source code. And the fact that the Yankees will give them the source, I strongly doubt it.
          1. nikoliski
            nikoliski 16 May 2018 15: 42
            -1
            Jews said that they would stick their own electronics and write their own software (sometimes the American buggy)
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 21: 37
              0
              they have more glitch wassat
    7. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber 13 May 2018 16: 47
      +3
      Why are you Indians so angry that you wish them, a hundred aircraft (not the cheapest) that have never participated in the database?
      Plus, solid "pluses" in the form of maintenance, the restructuring of the entire! Infrastructure, up to refueling laughing
      1. nikoliski
        nikoliski 14 May 2018 16: 03
        -1
        A non-serial Su-57, a participant in the hostilities? The Turks ordered the Australians a hundred F-35, even if we assume that the Su-57 is better than the American, then what time can we export a hundred cars? that they planned to release at first 2200 pieces, reduced the order to 200, and now again put into production the T-90 (with an cannon of armata) and only 50 were officially ordered by Armat themselves, we do not have to equal our military-industrial complex with the Soviet one, we now cannot meet our needs (for example, Yars and Iskander produces one factory overloaded with orders) And in order to understand the difference with the Soviet military-industrial complex in 1988, the USSR issued 3500 tanks "to the mountain"! Karl 3500! this is certainly not as much as in the war, BUT compared to the current 50 tanks a year, the difference is obvious ...
    8. Sergey Teltsov
      Sergey Teltsov 13 May 2018 17: 00
      +6
      don’t have to carry nonsense .... read the story ... the Germans made an advanced tank called the tiger .... a lot of new technological ideas and innovations ... and the result created a lot of technological problems ... the tank was simply complicated in service at the forefront, there are statistics that from 100 percent, to the battlefield, less than 50 percent of tanks reached the march .... so that all your arguments about a good car with a bunch of innovations, talking about nothing or simpler is just a bluff . Only real combat conditions will answer the main question of who he is F35!
      1. MadCat
        MadCat 14 May 2018 01: 23
        +1
        Quote: Sergey Teltsov
        no need to carry nonsense .... read the story ... the Germans made an advanced tank called the "tiger" .... a lot of new technological ideas and innovations

        Of course, I understand everything, but according to the same statistics, there were up to 8 destroyed T-34s per one tiger, thanks to the circulation of 64000 such tanks ...
        Quote: Sergey Teltsov
        .so that all your reasoning about a good car with a bunch of innovations, conversation is nothing or simpler - just a bluff. Only real combat conditions will answer the main question of who he is F35!

        well, the number of f35s released at the moment is about 300, which is a mystery to him in general (seriously, of course, and not of an idiotic type of penguin flying, it’s not shooting ... laughing ) ...
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 02: 05
          0
          good for a tiger when it is not compared with the IS-2 or self-propelled
          Panthers, T-3, T-4 (the most massive), and even more massive pieces and hatters would also be nice to add to tiger runs
          F-35, if the plane is not flying very seriously yes for 200 of them already since it began to be mass-produced before it went through full development and testing, because of which the F-35A will have expensive alterations, and the other two will be abandoned altogether lol
          1. MadCat
            MadCat 14 May 2018 04: 21
            +1
            Quote: YELLOWSTONE
            F-35, if the plane is not flying very seriously

            He flies better than the F-16 to replace which he’s going, is it not very compared to whom? With Sushki of which all modern modifications a hundred will be typed?
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 21: 44
              0
              F-35 is inferior to MiG-21 in everything except low-substitution and range
              1. nikoliski
                nikoliski 14 May 2018 22: 19
                -1
                Amer’s cannon armament is better (the rate of his minivolcano is higher and the ammunition is greater) medium-range air-to-air missiles and short-range air bombs against short-range and unguided FAB 250 missiles are also better, visibility (there is generally incomparable, the amer will see a moment21 everywhere and not only with a modern radar that the radiation sensor will not work on, but it will be able to detect Mig with infrared sensors before even turning on the radar) Then the option with a lifting fan (the one for aircraft carriers) can simply crash 6 Mig-21s right away (It’s impossible to get into hovering f35 with a missile; it’s proved that an outdated radar Migov will not be able to direct a missile at a target with a speed difference of more than a certain value (and the stealth in addition hangs still generally) it remains to try to defeat the F35 in close combat (I wonder how? They ask you not to shoot at us 100 km of path until we get closer to you and see you?) Yes, and I imagine a maneuverable neighbor battle (again with the marine option with a fan) take a look at the last but one film where F35 flies behind Willis’s wagon and appreciate its maneuverability — it’s actually a helicopter that can make aerobatics inaccessible even to the vaunted Su-27 (simply because it has a stall speed unlike an airplane with a fan that holds the f35 like a black shark) Following your logic (about the fact that Mig21 is better), then the Indians need to leave them and buy something new there ...
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 23: 04
                  0
                  weapons in close combat. he will not be able to use since he will not be able to take a favorable position
                  why, for example, did they think that the radiation sensor would not work?
                  the MiG-21 just had missiles with an infrared seeker, they’ll ask about it and everything else you watched too many films not about Vietnam, where the F-4 had a radar seeker
                  1. nikoliski
                    nikoliski 14 May 2018 23: 36
                    -1
                    read at your leisure how modern, active is working! AFAR, it does not “excite” the radiation sensor (the Su-35 still has a passive phased array)
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 23: 46
                      0
                      it also works just about as they switched to semiconductors in its production, PFAR sees stealth better yes
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 12
                        -1
                        Target detection range with EPR = 1 m² - 225 km (normal mode) and 193 km (LPI mode), cruise missile (0,1 m²) - 125-110 km. The instrumental range of the radar is 525 km.

                        The ability of the radar to operate in Low Interception Probability (LPI) mode makes conventional SPO / RTR systems useless. The AN / APG-77 radar is capable of performing an active radar search for a fighter aircraft equipped with SPO / RTR equipment so that the target does not know that it is being irradiated. Unlike conventional radars that emit powerful energy pulses in a narrow frequency range, the AN / APG-77 emits low energy pulses in a wide frequency range using a technique called broadband transmission. When multiple echoes return, the radar signal processor combines these signals. The amount of energy reflected back from the target is at the same level as a conventional radar, but since each LPI pulse has a significantly lower amount of energy and a different signal structure, it will be difficult for the target to detect the F-22. Here are excerpts about the Raptor AFAR
                    2. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 00: 51
                      0
                      a radar detector is much simpler than a radar, unless it was completely unfamiliar with the theory of radar, advertising is not exposure yes
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 14
                        -1
                        It’s like the Shtora complex for the PTRK laser works fine, and during the Greek tender, the Shtora didn’t work after the Leopard 2a6 put a laser range finder on our tank (there wasn’t enough sensitivity, the Germans are very proud of it, like they created such a range finder specifically) with the same system If you want something to be better with us, then you just need not to stand still, or do you think for a moment21 to enter the 21st century? and then when they begin to kill us, destroying from an inviz you shout, witchcraft! magic outside Hogwarts is prohibited! you don’t have to push around and come up with something fundamentally new like the Americans did with the Raptor radar (it’s not in vain that they don’t export it) and ours will live by the standards of the great Russian ... (until the roasted rooster pecks, good since the big war we didn’t see, we didn’t even fight with the enemy who had the anti-aircraft fleet and aviation — although there wasn’t a war with Georgia when in 5 days we lost 6 aircraft and a helicopter from the weakest country in the region (incomparably weak near the Turks or Iran)
                    3. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 26
                      0
                      this is with lasers so but not with radars, lowering the sensitivity of the detector is also not a problem
                      Harry Potter does not need to be watched, otherwise he replaced Vietnam again
                      in Georgia there was such Ukrainian air defense which the Turks do not have close
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 32
                        -1
                        Tartar on Turkish ships I think is not weaker than Buka; in addition, only the first Tu-22 reconnaissance aircraft was shot down by beech, then the Su-25 was shot down in the air (the pilot died) by the Georgian MiG (where are our eagles? Or are they used to bombing Chechnya, even cover didn’t organize it?) the rest died as far as I remember from the man-portable air defense system and I was shot down by an Israeli air defense missile (I won’t lie, our underestimated losses, the Georgians overestimated, but officially we recognized the loss of 6 planes and a helicopter in 5 days)
                    4. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 43
                      0
                      tartar on Turkish ships is exportable, and beeches from the times of the USSR are their own or even with Ukrainian additives yes the same applies to
                      there generally people talked to each other on the cell instead of their walkie-talkies
                      Turkey now wants to buy something from Russia
                  2. nikoliski
                    nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 04
                    -1
                    as for infrared missiles, I just did not expect that you would want to "set" an airplane with ancient missiles on f35 (there were infrared radars without a full-range seeker) I thought you would like to reduce at least Mig 21 with an upgraded Spear radar to be able to target medium-range missiles, well, if you if you want to completely throw up F21 with the very ancient MiG 35s, then I have no words ... (F35 will kill everyone, then refuel at the airfield and with a new ammunition will kill a new batch of your “imb” - it's like German aces having a hundred victories in France, simply because of Messerschmitt’s total superiority) Infrared sensors will report thermal missiles when they just fall off the wings of Migov f35 can do anything during the approach — turn to the sun (creating a natural obstacle) to shoot a bunch of heat traps (infrared signature f35 is much lower than that of of any of our fighters) in general, fly to MiG 21 on f35 is like a drunken blind homeless to go into the ring against the sighted Emelyanenko, he will just choose one of 10 ways to neutralize the homeless winked
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 00: 12
                      0
                      Americans also did not expect, especially since there were no full-fledged IR
                      will kill even worse than it turned out in Vietnam, not in vain because it was written about him yes
            2. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 16 May 2018 16: 38
              +1
              if you consider it for money, then well, its such a replacement.
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 21: 38
                0
                and if by LTX it’s not at all at lol about replacing a fairy tale just to give better loot on the F-35
        2. nikoliski
          nikoliski 14 May 2018 14: 21
          -1
          I completely agree with you (by the way, cursed by the F-35 patriots, able to shoot down 6 su-27s before being shot down, doesn’t it look like a Tiger and t-34?)
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 21: 45
            0
            costing on the table please lol
            and the T-34 on the T-4, and the Tigers on self-propelled guns or on the IS-2, what does it look like?
            1. nikoliski
              nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 23
              -1
              If there is a brain, you can count for yourself Tiger 2 versus IS2, one could defeat two in a clean Zeiss optics night vision nightlight quick and accurate 88mm cannon firing unitary shells (which quickly charge) against 122mm Is-2 cannons firing separately 2 rounds per minute (the rammer after the war was set) Despite the fact that the 122mm shell didn’t hit a distance of more than a kilometer (tigers managed to plant a shell from 2km)
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 00: 41
                0
                but in practice it turned out the other way around
                probably because the spotlight was visible well lol
                1. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 50
                  -1
                  In practice, the Is-2 is a purely urban tank (it left behind for a shot and hid for reloading) by the way t34-85 against tiger 2 and it’s even more dangerous sometimes because of the slow turn of the tower the tiger had a carousel when 34-85 rode around him a caterpillar and while he slowly rotated the turret, shooting him in the side and then in the stern (2-3 penetrations and German surviving tankers rushed away from the tank)
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 05
                    0
                    in practice, it’s necessary to play less tanks, and when the IS-2 shell simply exploded on the Tiger without breaking through, it was rarely possible for anyone to get out
                    1. nikoliski
                      nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 18
                      -1
                      I don’t understand where does the game? here is infa from wikipedia, or is there witchcraft and untruth too? The battalion of Major V.A. Zhukov at night stumbled upon 16 tanks, whose crews were sleeping in a nearby hut. Only three German crews managed to jump into cars. While the German tanks were deployed, thirty-four were killed by the fire of their tracks. Tanks were captured with refueling with full ammunition. The cars were transferred to the 3rd battalion, where there were free crews. This is a description of one of the first clashes with the royal tiger. So in the war, luck is also very important (as in the case of the shell that went to reload, which he destroyed in any other situation )
                      1. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 34
                        0
                        and who usually writes it? for example, despite the fact that there are no urban tanks at all, ISs are breakthrough tanks
  6. NEXUS
    NEXUS 13 May 2018 15: 33
    +2
    What will the Indians say when they return to the SU-57 spark?
    It seems that in India promatrass agents are also firmly settled.
    1. AlexanderVP
      AlexanderVP 13 May 2018 15: 38
      +9
      Quote: NEXUS
      It seems that in India promatrass agents are also firmly settled.

      Is that right?
      Or maybe the Indians need 5th generation fighters right now and a lot, and not in x years and a little bit.
      The F-35 has no competitors right now.
      1. Vadivak
        Vadivak 13 May 2018 15: 41
        +7
        Quote: AlexanderVP
        Or maybe the Indians need 5th generation fighters right now and a lot,

        They need a bribe now and a lot
        1. BastaKarapuzik And
          BastaKarapuzik And 13 May 2018 18: 10
          0
          They need a bribe now and a lot

          So I think that the Americans Indians, almost certainly, have already "entered."
          Well, or in another way they pressed. You never know what are the sensitive points.
        2. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 19
          +1
          And from whom can they now buy quickly and a lot of the 5th generation?
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 22
            0
            Again, why such a rush? Why do the Indians have a lot of f - 35 now? Their best friends - narrow-film, until the 5th generation is not very good. There are so far more problems than results. When theirs J from the category of promotional products will move into the category of combat use - this is still a very big question.
      2. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 15: 43
        0
        he is not a competitor to himself yet, but a 3D printer is a competitor to him, and not all problems of his hardware are solved by software upgrade lol
        1. AlexanderVP
          AlexanderVP 13 May 2018 15: 51
          +4
          Quote: YELLOWSTONE
          he is not a competitor to himself, but a 3D printer is a competitor to him lol
          and not all problems of iron are solved by software upgrade laughing

          I agree, when in essence there is nothing to say, it remains only silly to laugh.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 15: 53
            +1
            Quote: AlexanderVP
            stupid joke

            they are not always solved even in the iPhone lol
            1. AlexanderVP
              AlexanderVP 13 May 2018 15: 58
              +3
              Quote: YELLOWSTONE
              they are not always solved even in the iPhone lol

              First you do something comparable to iphone yourself ...
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 16: 27
                +2
                and what do you care about me? typical losers move, play with your iPhone wassat
                you can lend it to american astronauts if they don’t have enough lol
      3. NEXUS
        NEXUS 13 May 2018 15: 46
        +1
        Quote: AlexanderVP
        Or maybe the Indians need 5 generation fighters right now

        Are you claiming the F-35 is what, on what facts are you relying on?
        Quote: AlexanderVP
        The F-35 has no competitors right now.

        In which market? Apparently there is no promrassrassovskoye ... but on the same Indian wait and see.
        1. AlexanderVP
          AlexanderVP 13 May 2018 15: 50
          +4
          Quote: NEXUS
          You are stating about the F-35 is what facts are based

          And when do you declare “promrassrassovskie agents” on which facts are you relying on?

          Quote: NEXUS
          In which market?

          At the current.


          Quote: NEXUS
          but in the same Indian we wait and see.

          How many more years do you need to live to see?
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 13 May 2018 15: 53
            +1
            Quote: AlexanderVP
            And when do you declare “promrassrassovskie agents” on which facts are you relying on?

            There is lobbying for the interests of corporations in all countries. And one must be a very narrow-minded person to think that the United States has given up such a piece as the arms market of India.
            Quote: AlexanderVP
            At the current.

            In the current WHERE? In the West? Competitors or alternatives?
            Quote: AlexanderVP
            How many more years do you need to live to see?

            Are you in a hurry somewhere? This is a question the Indians need to ask.
            1. AlexanderVP
              AlexanderVP 13 May 2018 15: 56
              +3
              Quote: NEXUS
              There is lobbying for corporate interests in all countries.

              This does not mean that the Indians abandoned the su-57 because of the "promrassrass agents."

              Quote: NEXUS
              In the current WHERE? In the West? Competitors or alternatives ?.

              Everywhere. Name your competitors.

              Quote: AlexanderVP
              Are you in a hurry somewhere? This is a question the Indians need to ask.

              I am nowhere. And the Indians do not want to lag behind Pakistan and China. Have you read the article? :))
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 13 May 2018 16: 08
                +2
                Quote: AlexanderVP
                This does not mean that the Indians abandoned the su-57 because of "promrassrass agents"

                And because of them as well. There is a struggle for the market. And under the hour, the use of black PR takes place to be from the United States in order to get what they want. Hence such hello speeches about the F-35 and the funerals about the SU-57. And this is not only in this topic, but also in the topic of air defense systems, tanks, etc. ...
                Quote: AlexanderVP
                Everywhere. Name your competitors.

                Typhoon, Grippen ... than not strike fighters? EPR more? Are you sure that in modern aerial combat, stealth will greatly help, given the evolution of radars? In a real air battle, somewhere nearby there will be an A-50 or Avax type aircraft that will see everything perfectly, there will be radars on the ground, in AFAR fighters it’s also not blind, plus such systems as OLS ...
                Quote: AlexanderVP
                And the Indians do not want to lag behind Pakistan and China.

                Therefore, they are upgrading their SU-30
                1. Mih1974
                  Mih1974 13 May 2018 17: 08
                  +3
                  Well, that’s why you are so cruel))) that’s why you destroy the illusion of cannabis in sick people? Well, they want to believe in "invisibility" - let them believe it, because really if the horse has a spherical shape and is placed in a "perfect vacuum" (unattainable by any means repeat ), then maybe the Fu-35 will be invisible to someone. For example, the Mig-21 "does not see it", La-39, too laughing laughing
                  That's what you are so ruthlessly "suddenly in the sky of the A-50 and not at 0 degrees to the F-35 course"? The Yizrailites showed "how easy it is to knock out Shell-S" negative and it doesn’t matter that he was standing in a non-combat state, on the runway and possibly discharged, they know what the hell he was, but they banged, but banged, it’s useless to refute it. And it doesn’t matter anymore that he could be unarmed - don’t leave FIG under the protection of other installations for reloading, that the crew was outside - don’t figs relax when the killers (Izrail) were within reach, and that the defeat was very strange, “slow” - not Do not flip the bread in the war, but observe the Charter.
                2. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 25
                  0
                  Well, what is Su - 30 worse than a typhoon? I’m not talking about “flu” at all - this is a car from a different weight category. not to mention that drying has already been mastered l / s
                  1. nikoliski
                    nikoliski 14 May 2018 14: 31
                    -1
                    The Su-30 has an EPR of 12 meters, and the Eurofighter (typhoon) less than 1 meter (without external suspensions) is perhaps the only plus of the typhoon, but in melee combat it is weaker due to less maneuverability, besides why do all EPR consider so one-sided? Well, in terms of plane to plane, small EPR will come in handy when breaking through enemy ground-based air defense, when Bukov sees the enemy anti-aircraft battery locator not at 80-100km (like the Su-30), but at 35-40, i.e. you can look for gaps in the defense lines, approach undetected for dropping correctable bombs with low ESR (which Israel recently demonstrated brilliantly) Therefore, they choose F35 for procurement, they just all incorrectly see it as a clean fighter (this is certainly not a raptor), it’s more like a front-line aircraft (and compared to 24m, a tornado and other massive "war veterans" -bommers, he has no price)
                    1. TermNachTer
                      TermNachTer 14 May 2018 15: 28
                      0
                      Something big difference - 12 times, provided that both cars are 4th generation? How did the geyropeyts achieve such an EPR?
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 14 May 2018 16: 09
                        -1
                        The leading edge of the front horizontal tail is made of radar absorbing material. Although the new fighter does not belong to the category of stealth aircraft, during its design several structural and layout measures were carried out, which were aimed at reducing the effective scattering surface. During the design, we set the task to reduce the effective scattering surface from the front angles of irradiation of radar systems by four times in comparison with the same value of the Tornado aircraft.

                        Such measures include: recessed air intakes and engine input masks masked by the input devices (a significant source of electromagnetic radiation reflection). Some structural elements of the aircraft, which are important in reflectivity (the bearing planes and the leading edges of the horizontal tail and stabilizer) have a large scale, which is why they have good reflectivity in the leading sector. External suspensions of guided missiles are semi-submerged, which makes it possible to partially shield the structure of the aircraft from the incident EM radiation of the suspension of the missiles.
                        The leading reflective elements and sections of the Eurofighter fighter are covered with radar absorbing materials, mainly developed by EADS / DASA. Among them: the leading edge of the wing, the inner surfaces and the input edges of the air intakes, the rudder, as well as the adjacent surfaces and the like. The area of ​​the front horizontal tail is 2,40 m2. For its manufacture carbon fiber is mainly used.
                    2. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 21: 48
                      0
                      So is it that you get an EPR tornado steeper than the Su-30? bully
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 16
                        -1
                        It turns out only that there was a requirement for a new aircraft to make the EPR 4 times lower, but it was possible to do (without rockets if) then 1 meter EPR in the frontal projection (infa open, google to help)
                    3. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 00: 44
                      0
                      openly about B-1 also write
                      from the ancient tornado, of course, no one took the data and then such progress was not taken into account
          2. NEXUS
            NEXUS 13 May 2018 16: 10
            +2
            Quote: AlexanderVP
            And when do you declare “promrassrassovskie agents” on which facts are you relying on?

            I repeat, on the basis of which you declare that the F-35 is a 5th generation fighter?
            1. iwind
              iwind 13 May 2018 16: 38
              +3
              Quote: NEXUS
              Tite Complaint

              CANCEL ADD COMMENT
              NEXUS

              And why not?
              Quote: NEXUS
              Typhoon, Grippen ... than not strike fighters? EPR more? Are you sure that in modern aerial combat, stealth will greatly help, given the evolution of radars? In a real air battle, somewhere nearby there will be an A-50 or Avax type aircraft that will see everything perfectly, there will be radars on the ground, in AFAR fighters it’s also not blind, plus such systems as OLS ...

              sure.
              See all new aircraft designs all reduce EPR
              + P, EB
              : A.N. Lagarkov, M.A. Poghosyan
              BULLETIN OF THE RUSSIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCES Vol. 73, No. 9, p. 848 (200
              Measures to reduce the visibility of the aircraft must be coordinated with the capabilities and requirements of the electronic countermeasures system. A decrease in the level of visibility, of course, reduces the power consumption of the electronic countermeasures system, but more importantly, the use of electronic countermeasures with an inconspicuous aircraft allows for significant air superiority.
              Reducing the EPR from 10-15 m2 - the value typical of fourth-generation heavy fighters to 0.3 m2 - can fundamentally reduce aircraft losses in hostilities. This effect is enhanced if, simultaneously with the use of aircraft with low ESR, modern radio electronic countermeasures are used


              PS at tainan, besides the price, shock functions will only now be brought to the proper level
              1. NEXUS
                NEXUS 13 May 2018 16: 46
                +1
                Quote: iwind
                sure.
                See all new aircraft designs all reduce EPR
                + P, EB

                But do not put it as a panacea at the forefront. Or do you think that the F-35 will fight in the greenhouse laboratory conditions that are most beneficial for this machine?
                A DB is a complex action like the Air Force, Air Defense, EW and so on ... therefore, I am sure that in real air combat, the F-35 will not greatly help its stealth.
                At the same time, the F-35 fighter does not reach the word at all. The calculation for long-range missiles? Well, see the first point, where will there be ground-based radars, air defense, aircraft like Avax, etc.?
                At the same time, something tells me that there will still be many emergency situations with the F-35 avionics. And again, it will be proved to everyone that this is a miracle, and not a plane.
                1. iwind
                  iwind 13 May 2018 16: 51
                  +5
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  + P, EB
                  But do not put it as a panacea at the forefront. Or do you think that the F-35 will fight in the greenhouse laboratory conditions that are most beneficial for this machine?
                  A DB is a complex action like the Air Force, Air Defense, EW and so on ... therefore, I am sure that in a real air battle, the F-35 will not greatly help its stealth

                  And why? Not one of the developers of modern aircraft, including in the Russian Federation, disagrees with you
                  Quote: NEXUS
                  At the same time, the F-35 fighter does not reach the word at all. The calculation for long-range missiles? Well, see the first point, where will there be ground-based radars, air defense, aircraft like Avax, etc.?

                  and what does not reach? AND?
                  "Measures to reduce the visibility of the aircraft must be coordinated with the capabilities and requirements of the electronic countermeasures system. A decrease in the level of visibility, of course, reduces the power consumption of the electronic countermeasures system, but more importantly, the use of electronic countermeasures by a stealth aircraft allows you to obtain significant air superiority."
                  Academics do not understand anything?
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 13 May 2018 17: 01
                    +1
                    Quote: iwind
                    Not one of the developers of modern aircraft, including in the Russian Federation, disagrees with you

                    Seriously? The developers of the Russian Federation, just agree with me, because they put paramount importance on over-maneuverability, and not stealth. It is clear that in the new fighter and stealth technologies are present, but they are not the main ones, unlike the F-35.
                    Quote: iwind
                    and what does not reach?

                    Maneuverability, (not even super-maneuverability), high-speed characteristics, .. High specific load on the wing, which significantly reduces the maneuverability of the fighter.
                    However, according to Lockheed Martin vice president Stephen O'Bryan, the fighter is capable of flying at a speed corresponding to M = 1,2 (i.e. 1,2 times the speed of sound) for ≈240 km without turning on afterburner

                    Is it uncut over the sound?
                    Insufficient thrust-to-weight ratio (0,8-0,85), which is due to the greatly increased mass of the machine during its refinement.
                    The relatively small mass of weapons that the aircraft can take into the internal compartments.
                    Due to the rather high minimum speed, low payload and sensitivity to fire from the ground, the F-35 may not be effective enough as an aircraft to directly support troops. The old and tested A-10 Thunderbolt in this regard looks much preferable.
                    1. iwind
                      iwind 13 May 2018 17: 21
                      +6
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Seriously? The developers of the Russian Federation, just agree with me, because they put paramount importance on over-maneuverability, and not stealth. It is clear that in the new fighter and stealth technologies are present, but they are not the main ones, unlike the F-35.

                      In a complex way.
                      SU-57 A lot has been done by stealth.
                      Like the F-35, but this does not mean that they scored on another.

                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Maneuverability, (not even super-maneuverability), high-speed characteristics, .. High specific load on the wing, which significantly reduces the maneuverability of the fighter

                      Norgi
                      Maneuverability "Hanch emphasized that since he is able to maintain eye contact with his opponent during aggressive maneuvers, visual cockpit restriction is not a" significant issue with the F-35A. "
                      "I came to the conclusion that this aircraft allows me to be much more proactive and aggressive in the attacking role than I could afford on the F-16."
                      or

                      or dutch
                      ) I usually say to new pilots that the F-35’s maneuverability is a bit better than the F-16 and F \ A-18.

                      [media = https: //twitter.com/twitter/statuses/99502
                      0220640067584]
                      Speed ​​....... you understand that the max speed indicator is a purely theoretical quantity
                      Su-27 fast plane?
                      2 km / h seems a lot. And if with a weapon? See the manual for su -500
                      and now 1300 is a maxim.
                      At F-35- 1930.
                      tactical speed more than. Only heavy 5 pok will give in (F-22 and Su-57)
                      The laws of aerodynamics for all aircraft with external suspension + are the same. Have a weapon mean minus speed
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Insufficient thrust-to-weight ratio (0,8-0,85), which is due to the greatly increased mass of the machine during its refinement.

                      did not change
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      The relatively small mass of weapons that the aircraft can take into the internal compartments.

                      like the F-16
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Due to the rather high minimum speed, low payload and sensitivity to fire from the ground, the F-35 may not be effective enough as an aircraft to directly support troops. The old and tested A-10 Thunderbolt in this regard looks much preferable.

                      Pilot
                      "" But the slow speed is impressive. The F-35 pilot has the ability to constantly point his nose at the enemy, even at a ridiculously slow speed, which is an excellent opportunity in combination with high-range missiles and a helmet mounted sight.
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      sensitivity to fire from the earth F-35

                      the best F-16 has after tests, its tolerance for damage is higher
                      comparing against the F-16C in similar configurations, all variants of the F-35 were better than the F-16
                      And why bother with anti-aircraft fire
                      1. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 17: 32
                        +1
                        next to the word compartments missed the word internal
                        the speed of the Su-27 from 2,35 to 2,5 Mach and more, the F-35 is only 1,6
                        helmet rockets themselves would be even better lol
                      2. NEXUS
                        NEXUS 13 May 2018 18: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: iwind
                        Maneuverability "Hanch emphasized that since he is able to maintain eye contact with his opponent during aggressive maneuvers, visual cockpit restriction is not a" significant issue with the F-35A. "

                        If there is a VISUAL CONTACT with the enemy, such as SU-57 or SU-30/35, then the F-35 is not a tenant from the word at all, because eye contact is a dog dump. And at short range, neither the pangolin nor the Lightning are competitors to Russian cars.
                        Quote: iwind
                        The laws of aerodynamics for all aircraft with external suspension + are the same. Have a weapon mean minus speed

                        That is, the suspension on other fighters is minus speed, but the F-35 does not?
                        Quote: iwind
                        But the slow speed is impressive. The F-35 pilot has the ability to constantly point his nose at the enemy, even at a ridiculously slow speed,

                        Oh, how ... I wonder how it looks in practice, and where did the F-35 get super maneuverability for this business?
                        Quote: iwind
                        And why bother with anti-aircraft fire

                        Because there are no laboratory conditions in aerial combat.
                        And the same F-35 during flight will not always be in the most advantageous position for itself in relation to the enemy’s radar + plus a suspension that negates stealth, plus an arsenal ... and here those missiles that the United States designates as large missiles range, we pass like medium-range missiles.
                        In general, you can argue and prove for a long time ... only for me personally, it is obvious that the F-35 at best can be used as a light bomber and it can never grow to a fighter.
                    2. iwind
                      iwind 13 May 2018 19: 00
                      +4
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      If there is a VISUAL CONTACT with the enemy, such as SU-57 or SU-30/35, then the F-35 is not a tenant from the word at all, because eye contact is a dog dump. And at short range, neither the pangolin nor the Lightning are competitors to Russian cars.

                      Not a fact. Easy walk will not be +
                      Modern missiles BVB
                      Quote: NEXUS

                      That is, the suspension on other fighters is minus speed, but the F-35 does not?

                      External to everyone.
                      But the F-35, Su-57 and F-35 have more internal

                      Quote: NEXUS
                      Oh, how ... I wonder how it looks in practice, and where did the F-35 get super maneuverability for this business?

                      always has been. And where does super-maneuverability.
                      He has the ability to fly at very high attack angles
                      Quote: NEXUS

                      Because there are no laboratory conditions in aerial combat.

                      sure. Internet experts know better
                      Why do tests. You can ask them on the site if they would immediately be told how to make an airplane and what the results will be.
                      And it’s quite possible to shoot from air cannons and it’s quite possible to see the damage.
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      And the same F-35 during flight will not always be in the most advantageous position for itself in relation to the enemy radar + plus a suspension that negates stealth, plus an arsenal ... and here those missiles that the United States designates as large missiles range, we pass like medium-range missiles

                      - EW

                      It will be very simple to aim at an inconspicuous aircraft under the conditions of electronic warfare

                      Although what do these academics understand
                      Quote: NEXUS
                      In general, you can argue and prove for a long time ... only for me personally, it is obvious that the F-35 at best can be used as a light bomber and it can never grow to a fighter.

                      laughing
                      Yes ... the truth is where the pilots and the designer are.
                      They don’t understand anything.
                      F-35 is better than F-16, but yes it cannot be a fighter laughing
                2. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 14 May 2018 16: 14
                  -1
                  It is not necessary to consider it an invincible imba (the S-400 will cope with it) but it is against the third world countries armed with the Mig-29 Chinese export Mig-21 and the outdated air defense in the form of the S-125 (his radar, with all the desire, even if it finds Stealth, will not be able to precisely direct the missile to a target with such an EPR) here against such countries f35 is a really powerful machine, as Messerschmitt was at one time.
                3. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 02
                  -1
                  If he fights with the Russians, then this is one thing (we have something to oppose them), and if the British f35 fights for the Falklands with the Argentines again (instead of Harrier) then it is a good substitute if Australia protects itself with the f35 from the invasion of Indonesia (a population that is close to 270 million people, and by 2050, due to the fact that abortion is punishable as murder, the population of Indonesia will be about 400 million people, because so many young people who will soon have their own children do not want to land in the huge "wrong" Australia with a population of only 30 million) Turks if they buy f35 for the war against the eternal Greek enemy, they will completely break their Air Force consisting of several Mirages and hundreds of f16.
                  1. NEXUS
                    NEXUS 15 May 2018 01: 15
                    0
                    Quote: nikoliski
                    If he fights with the Russians, this is one thing (we have something to oppose them)

                    I have repeatedly raised the question, I think, of the very near future. The rate of mattresses on stealth technology is wrong. Why? Already at the stand we are testing ROFAR. And in this regard, if the serial ROFAR appears in 3-5 years (I'm sure of it), where can this stealth technology be thrown? And in this case, when installing on our SU-30,34 / 35/57 and MIG-35 ROFAR serial, the F-35 will become an expensive and not very practical platform, which by that time many Western countries will replace the outdated fighter fleet, except stealth, there is nothing outstanding in Lightning, from the word at all.
                  2. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 22
                    0
                    Quote: nikoliski
                    and the falklands with the argentines butt

                    nothing good will come of it
              2. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 14 May 2018 16: 05
                0
                By the way, somewhere in the net, information flashed that in the British Air Force, only 8 pilots were able to use the "typhoon" for ground targets, since it was originally an airplane for gaining superiority
                1. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 14 May 2018 18: 30
                  -1
                  Despite the apparent “strength” of the armies of France and Britain, I also doubt very much their ability to wage war against Russia
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 15 May 2018 14: 22
                    0
                    And there’s a quote from The Times, because I can’t vouch for the veracity of the fact that in the British Armed Forces there are a shortage of 8 snouts, of which 200 are pilots and 2 are engineering and technical personnel. If this is true, then what kind of war are we talking about? The pilot and engineer must be trained for years
                    1. nikoliski
                      nikoliski 15 May 2018 14: 36
                      -1
                      why do they need 2400 pilots? they don’t even have thousands of planes in the Air Force (then they would write the complete truth that a shortage of another 1000 planes) in general, the Britons and the French, having less than 500 tanks in the army, are unable to fight with anyone without nuclear weapons now, I’m sure the French will invade Ukraine would not do anything ...
                      1. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 15 May 2018 17: 03
                        +1
                        Actually, there are situations when 3 pilots fly on the same plane. The same Britons in the Falklands. Hariyer made 5-6 flights a day, and pilots 2-3.
            2. Mih1974
              Mih1974 13 May 2018 17: 11
              +3
              YES, who are you to argue with the adherents of the MOST State Department? laughing laughing
              It is said that the F-35 is the beacon of democracy and the INVISIBLE, and certainly 5 generations - it means so. And all who "do not believe" and especially require evidence (well, what kind of evidence can Vera have?) - that is, the Heretic is subject to "burning." lol
        2. nikoliski
          nikoliski 14 May 2018 02: 19
          -1
          Well, who’s the competitor there? The raptor is not for sale. The Chinese are only finishing their nickel and they will not sell a clear deal to India, Japan, likewise, everything remains only our Su-57, but it is only in series at the end of the year and as is the case with the S-400 " until we satiate our armed forces for export, we’ll not sell them! " India what to expect about 5 years a new plane? Of course, the F35 is being considered as an option, in principle, the Su-35 can be offered, one problem is that they go for export at a price that does not differ much from the land-based cheaper option f35 (and the choice between the 4+ and 5 generation is not in favor of our ESR, i.e. Roughly speaking, in an oncoming aerial combat, the f35 will be like Helcat standing in the bushes rushing to KV2 in the desert, there is evidence that the f35 will not be detected until it approaches 40 km to the Su-35, while at the same time using the modern inconspicuous radar with The AFAR will have time to see it earlier and attack, of course it cannot be said that the American will always win, but computer simulation of the battles showed that the losses of the Su-35 will be at least one and a half times higher than that of the f35.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 02: 32
            0
            it did not show that even the F-22 actually loses the Su-27 and MiG-31BM, why aren't they in a hurry with the Su-57? lol
            1. nikoliski
              nikoliski 14 May 2018 04: 08
              -1
              F22, if he loses, then only in close combat (where he is visually seen), and if you take the battle for which he was created (long-arm principle), then he has no equal among serial cars in the world — the maximum range of the AFAR of the raptor is 513 km (in our serial SU -35 400 km, but let’s say the first su-27 has a total area of ​​100 km) with a raptor EPR of 0.1 it will be detected more visually than the obsolete radar of the first su-27 (the su-35 will see the raptor at a distance of 30 km) f22 With its radar with an active phased array, it is able to start driving the Su-35 already at a distance of about 270 km, in addition, the signal of a modern AFAR station is so masked that it is not always defined as target acquisition, that is, our pilot will not receive a warning about radiation) of course in a non-combat situation when the raptor is training in, say, close combat, it can even lose to an outdated aircraft (the Indians gave several SU-30mki for a “test”, but the raptor “interrupted” them dry using the latest maneuvers) by the way, even if f22 is visible it doesn’t mean that the Su-27 will quietly bring it down, it is very difficult for the guidance radar to capture a target with such a small EPR, and if you take the F35 there is another focus — on our old planes (Mig-29 and Su27) there are requirements for the minimum target speed — in fact it is unrealistic to hit a missile with a radar seeker that moves less than 30 km (the marine version, using a lift fan, can hang in the air like a helicopter) and also having a small EPR, there are missiles with a hot seeker (they help traps, besides there is no transponder -An alien in the landfill of planes was a case when they shot down their own thermal missile) further what remains is a 30mm cannon of 150 fragmentation shells The Americans say (I don’t know how much the truth is written) that the 30mm fragmentation shells of our air gun are practically not dangerous to the raptor, they say strong composites, and important parts still need to heal (with bk 150 shells that fly out in seconds is problematic) in short they declare (I don’t want to believe this of course) that one rap the torus will hit 6 su-30s before it is shot down, and if it fights using the Avax “eyes”, then one raptor is supposedly equal to 10 su-30s (I understand each sandpiper praises its swamp, maybe the numbers are doubled, but if the raptor really to play from the review, using camouflage, it’s quite possible to knock a bunch of blind kittens in the face of old su-27, yes 29, about MiG31 I think that the radar is better than su 27, in theory the link can be pulled against the raptor (one on one unrealistic, it's like a blind man fighting by ear with a sighted person)
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 21: 55
                0
                in the near, he will even lose the MiG-29, in the long-range OBT that the F-22 does not really need
                in the MiG-31 I think the speed is better, without it the Su-30 versus the F-22 is 2 to 1, with it the F-22 has no chance
                1. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 05
                  -1
                  The MiG-31 is an excellent interceptor (it’s a pity they don’t produce more) it’s bad that all the cars were manufactured in the USSR and the air force assured that they had less than the Su-27 (when the last mig31 were removed from service the entire Arctic would be left without patrol interceptors 2 bases MiG-31 Arkhangelsk and Kotlas helped keep the north locked.)
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 13
                    0
                    fighter-interceptor, with the MiG-25 above 11000 F-15 pilots are forbidden to communicate yes
          2. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 31
            0
            That's when the Chinese will bring their technology demonstrators to real combat vehicles, and then the Indians need to start worrying. But not before, that is, not yet soon. The little article is a tricky marketing ploy to “wipe out” Russia from the Indian arms market.
      4. LMN
        LMN 13 May 2018 16: 38
        +3
        Quote: AlexanderVP
        Quote: NEXUS
        It seems that in India promatrass agents are also firmly settled.

        Is that right?
        Or maybe the Indians need 5th generation fighters right now and a lot, and not in x years and a little bit.
        The F-35 has no competitors right now.

        Well, since they do not buy "right now and a lot", then apparently there is some kind of alternative .., that is. competitors what
      5. Tusv
        Tusv 13 May 2018 17: 56
        0
        Quote: AlexanderVP
        The F-35 has no competitors right now.

        Cool application. For the time being, the Jews crumble Syrian air defense on old donkeys and without entering the territory hi
        1. Shahno
          Shahno 13 May 2018 18: 07
          0
          Well, not always without a call. Recently came a UFO similar to a UAV .... We decided to check the discipline of Arab soldiers.
          1. Tusv
            Tusv 13 May 2018 19: 09
            0
            Quote: Shahno
            We decided to check the discipline of the Arab soldiers.

            You have a little mistake .. The word "Arab warriors", a scribble through Y. But all is on CA. This is a wise woman.
      6. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 13 May 2018 20: 15
        0
        So, just a hundred? Dear, do you really imagine a plant that in a short time can produce a hundred of such crap difficult to produce? And the line for this miracle of yaroplans is planned for years to come. So it turns out, as in that joke about an elephant, possibly Indian. Maybe he can, currents to give him.
        1. nikoliski
          nikoliski 14 May 2018 02: 23
          -1
          The United States has already riveted a couple of hundred for itself, 130 ordered for Britain (10 delivered already) 40 ordered for Japan, 50 for Israel, 40 for Denmark, 90 for Italy, finally Turkey and Australia ordered a hundred pieces
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 02: 47
            0
            news missed that Britain refuses, but they want to ride Turkey with them? it wasn’t ordered, Canada from this list itself for a long time ... only Australians and Israelis will be purchased within this framework, the rest under a greatly reduced program
            1. nikoliski
              nikoliski 14 May 2018 02: 55
              -1
              I heard about this, but the British have already received a dozen, they want a red girl, then the previous prime minister bought the most expensive option with GDP for an aircraft carrier, now they started talking, they might prefer a cheaper option, they want to “punish” Turkey, but hardly before that comes, the Americans do not know how to steal from our own pockets (as we are with apples, for example) Australia also breaks the price by knocking down, we supposedly each car will be 98 million, but it turns out 136, we’ll probably buy f18 again
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 03: 12
                0
                as a result of the F-18, in addition to the typhoons, Britain will buy Canada, it’s possible that rafal is also impossible for the Turks because of the neighborhood with Israel, then again there’s some coup or support for the Palestinian autonomy, and Australia will be one hundred percent lol
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 03: 26
                  0
                  and to Israel they generally go for free yes
          2. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 14 May 2018 09: 34
            +1
            You yourself answered my question - ORDERED. And when will they reach the Native American order? And of the hundreds that they riveted for themselves - how many are really combat-ready?
    2. poquello
      poquello 13 May 2018 15: 56
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      What will the Indians say when they return to the SU-57 spark?
      It seems that in India promatrass agents are also firmly settled.

      and after all this wave I read that the Indians did not go anywhere and did not refuse anything
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 13 May 2018 16: 02
        +2
        Quote: poquello
        and after all this wave I read that the Indians did not go anywhere and did not refuse anything

        They did not agree with us, because the conditions for the development of the SU-57 twin did not suit our side. The Indians do not want to buy finished products, but transfer production and technology to their territory, which is unacceptable to us. The plane is secret, like the technology in it.
        The latest statements of the Hindus are such that Russia itself may bring the 57th, and after all this, they will think whether to buy these aircraft from us or not in the future.
        My opinion is ... that in the story with the Indians, the MIG-35, as well as the SU-35, have not yet said the final word. I think that it is quite possible that the Indians will try to purchase a trial batch of SU-35s first. We'll see.
        1. poquello
          poquello 13 May 2018 22: 17
          0
          Quote: NEXUS
          The latest statements of the Hindus are such that Russia itself may bring the 57th, and after all this, they will think whether to buy these aircraft from us or not in the future.

          India will continue to participate in a multi-billion dollar joint project with the Russian Federation to create a fifth-generation FGFA fighter only if two conditions are met. The first of these is the full-scale transfer of all technologies by the Russian side, so that in the future India can independently modernize its aircraft with the integration of new weapons. The second is assistance in developing the AMCA combat aircraft project, which Indian aircraft manufacturers are currently engaged in. On Thursday, March 9, the newspaper The Times of India reported

          http://army-news.ru/2017/03/indiya-trebuet-raskry
          t-voennuyu-tajnu-suxogo /
    3. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin 13 May 2018 16: 30
      0
      Quote: NEXUS
      What will the Indians say when they return to the SU-57 spark?
      It seems that in India promatrass agents are also firmly settled.

      Indians do not want to invest in development. It seems to them that buying ready will be cheaper. What can they say? What avaricious pays twice.
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 13 May 2018 16: 33
        0
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        Indians do not want to invest in development. It seems to them that buying ready will be cheaper. What can they say? What avaricious pays twice

        No, not so ... they just wanted to reduce the cost of the SU-57 for themselves by transferring the assembly and technologies, and to earn money by selling them to everyone. Everything rested precisely in the fact that their conditions are unacceptable to us.
        1. iwind
          iwind 13 May 2018 16: 47
          +2
          Quote: NEXUS
          Quote: Captain Pushkin
          Indians do not want to invest in development. It seems to them that buying ready will be cheaper. What can they say? What avaricious pays twice

          No, not so ... they just wanted to reduce the cost of the SU-57 for themselves by transferring the assembly and technologies, and to earn money by selling them to everyone. Everything rested precisely in the fact that their conditions are unacceptable to us.

          Sparkia has long been and is not in the wards
          ". The total cost of manufacturing 127 single-seat fighters in India will be about $ 25 billion."

          What is the reason for the reduction in the order for aircraft, is not specified. The Indian Air Force intends to purchase only single-seat versions of a promising aircraft. "
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 13 May 2018 16: 50
            0
            Quote: iwind
            Sparkia has long been and is not in the wards

            Spark may be created later for our VKS in order to train the flight crew.
            Quote: iwind
            The Indian Air Force intends to purchase only single-seat versions of a promising aircraft. "

            Although at first the Indians insisted on the spark. By the way, a change of opinion about whether the Indians need a spark or a single fighter, partly speaks in favor of my opinion that the Indians will buy the SU-35.
            1. iwind
              iwind 13 May 2018 16: 54
              +2
              Quote: NEXUS
              Spark may be created later for our VKS in order to train the flight crew

              Everything is possible. But so far everyone has forgotten about the spark. If they will, then only after 10 years is VERY optimistic.
              Quote: NEXUS
              Although at first the Indians insisted on the spark. By the way, a change of opinion about whether the Indians need a spark or a single fighter, partly speaks in favor of my opinion that the Indians will buy the SU-35.

              They have changed this opinion for several years already. There are no negotiations on the su-35. Sense ahead of time to discuss it
      2. poquello
        poquello 13 May 2018 22: 19
        0
        Quote: Captain Pushkin
        Indians do not want to invest in development. It seems to them that buying ready will be cheaper. What can they say? What avaricious pays twice.

        and they have their own QMS more expensive than we sell))))
    4. nikoliski
      nikoliski 13 May 2018 19: 54
      0
      And when will the Su-57 go into production? They promised to do a few things for our army next year, and India will have to wait at least 10 cars for 30 years? What do you suggest that they wait until China finishes the 5th generation, puts it in series and sells it to Pakistan as usual? they need to catch up as soon as possible, and if our military-industrial complex cannot give them a car tomorrow that meets their requirements, then why all these resentments against them? they will buy the best (even the F-22 Americans said they were ready to offer a refined one, if only they wouldn’t buy ours, thereby not sponsoring our military-industrial complex) there is good money (India is 3rd in the world in terms of PPP GDP, bypassed Japan already)
  7. Vasyan1971
    Vasyan1971 13 May 2018 15: 34
    +2
    "Further in the American media, to which the Indian portal refers, it is stated that in such a situation one should" blame Russia ", which" cannot keep up with the development of modern combat aircraft and military equipment in general. "
    Or, after all, blame India, which “cannot keep up with the development of modern combat aircraft and military equipment in general.” "And is forced to buy everything you need abroad? Hindus, do not be offended, but how not to twist, but to BUY, you have no options left, at least according to the Americans.
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 13 May 2018 19: 58
      -1
      Yes, the Americans are joking, they sold the Forecaster of India (from the newer drones themselves) ours only arrange the production of shock drones (bought technology from the Jews) And the helicopter tender? there was a circus, you know why Apache won? because during the firing from the cannon, our Mi-28n experienced an engine surge, unfortunately even our military-industrial complex now began to rivet “Grants”, if the quality is not raised, then the amba-all markets will leave (where they took the price, China is everything there took)
  8. AlexanderVP
    AlexanderVP 13 May 2018 15: 34
    +7
    Su-57 currently lacks the necessary engines, sensors and electronic combat and communication systems
    In general, it is.
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 13 May 2018 15: 38
    +1
    Somehow they wrote that India created its own "Silicon Valley" ..stepped into new technologies .. Well, we did it ourselves, and did not sort it out with grubs in the market ...
    1. Seaflame
      Seaflame 13 May 2018 15: 49
      +3
      I can tell you for sure that sales of software (software) to the foreign market in India are many times greater than those of our Russian IT leaders (1C, Yandex, Kaspersky). Despite the fact that our programmers (due to the cool mathematics school), if not the best in the world, are definitely among the top leaders .... Only our students have been lured by Google, Microsoft, Oracle, etc. because in Russian companies non-competitive conditions.
      1. sir_obs
        sir_obs 13 May 2018 17: 40
        0
        I can tell you for sure that sales of software (software) to the foreign market in India are many times greater than those of our Russian IT leaders (1C, Yandex, Kaspersky

        Our it companies are not limited to this list, there are many more whose products are bought all over the world and not only by ordinary users, but also by large developers. For example, JetBrains, a direct competitor to Microsoft and Oracle, in terms of development environments.

        For 2017, the goal of our software companies for the hill was sold for 7,6 billion bucks, and how much did India sell? I haven’t found anything on this supply, surprise me with a figure.
        I’ll just say right away, do not consider what Indians do in the branches of Americans, that they are purely Indian, that others buy.
        What is some Indian cft that is sold all over the world?
        1. sabotage
          sabotage 13 May 2018 21: 08
          +1
          Quote: sir_obs
          What is some Indian cft that is sold all over the world?

          Zoho
          1. sir_obs
            sir_obs 13 May 2018 22: 19
            0
            Nice, but not very popular crm. Not the level to be proud of the scale, although the process is organized and technical support is not bad. Bitrick is more monumental.
            1. sabotage
              sabotage 14 May 2018 06: 46
              0
              Quote: sir_obs
              not very popular crm

              Lol She has only SalesSAP from her competitors. And the fact that it is not promoted in Russia is the problem of the poor Russian IT market.
  10. Prisoner
    Prisoner 13 May 2018 15: 46
    0
    If technical backwardness pushed, from the F-35 all the mattress partners would have fled either to Russia or to China. hi
  11. sir_obs
    sir_obs 13 May 2018 15: 49
    +1
    Quote: nikoliski
    F 35 really good car


    How good she is from herself will be seen if she was an example of participating in a real battle.
    But there’s nothing to talk about. F117 also PR, until they were removed from service. About B2, too, the topic withered completely, even Hollywood stopped promoting it.
    In all these articles, at the level of majumdaras of various and popular mechanics, the conversation is about nothing.
    In addition to the fact that it is an airplane and it can fly, there is nothing more out of reality and can not be, since all these articles are designed for the average man who understands little, but also wants to consider himself an advanced specialist.

    1. sabakina
      sabakina 13 May 2018 16: 28
      +2
      Yes, in my opinion, flying him (f-35) is finally secondary. The main thing is the "keen eye", I hang high, I look far, and give out directions to everyone who will beat whom.
    2. _Jack_
      _Jack_ 13 May 2018 16: 30
      +8
      neither F117 nor B2 were manufactured and sold in such quantities, f-35s will be 200pcs each. riveting a year, so many countries would not have to spend money on an inefficient plane, you should stop repeating this stupid mantra about ironing and putting it on to all countries, for a long time it was clear to all adequate people that the plane turned out to be really modern and relatively inexpensive, at the level of European fighters 4 generations
      and the fact that our su-57 in stealth will be very far from f-35 is also obvious, look at the photo in the frontal projection - the compressor blades of the engines are visible, they will glow on the radar like a Christmas tree, it is impossible to close them with a radio-absorbing coating - this is not the mode work, and the fact that we are far behind in electronics is a tradition from Soviet times, plus a lag of 20 years after the perestroika period was added, plus the Indians left the project, which means that now we don’t have any money for it, in short a solid negative
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Sergey Horuzhik
        Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 16: 48
        0
        is stealth technology what is it intended for? And with your oak head you didn’t think that passive stealth can be compensated by active stealth when the plane puts in such interference that the enemy simply can’t see it?
        1. _Jack_
          _Jack_ 13 May 2018 16: 50
          +2
          wassat Yes, dear, you are clearly in the subject, you are talking such nonsense, if you are in grade 5, you are still studying, but if you are older, I sympathize
          1. Sergey Horuzhik
            Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 21: 20
            0
            There’s nothing to argue with me: I bought for what, I’m selling for that. You bet, God’s been chosen with the author of this article.
            “It is clear that the new Su-57 adheres to stealth technologies, but does not focus on it. In other words, the fighter incorporates the most necessary technologies for invisibility. The layout and appearance of the Su-57 clearly make it clear that it is not going to “Run away” from a collision in the sky, like American fighters, and was built to destroy modern “invisibles” of the USA This strike air warrior of Russia can achieve this due to extremely technologically advanced radars that can calculate absolutely any target at a very large distance.

            In addition, the Russian fighter is capable of deceiving the F-22 and F-35 radars thanks to unique systems and the highest maneuverability. Locki explained that such a tactic is called “glow”, in which the enemy radar does not understand that there is a real target in front of it. In fact, the capabilities of the Su-57 level its slight lag in "stealth technologies." This machine is very dangerous for any US fighter. "Https://politexpert.net/105202-zapadnye-smi
            -su-57-ne-udiraet-ot-draki-on-zatochen-pod-unicht
            ozhenie-f-35
            1. _Jack_
              _Jack_ 13 May 2018 23: 36
              +1
              it’s only possible to laugh from this nonsense, it’s even become interesting that the author really got such an ave. durok or just continue to escalate the situation about evil and extremely dangerous Russians?
              1. Sergey Horuzhik
                Sergey Horuzhik 14 May 2018 10: 20
                0
                besides cheeks, as I understand it, you have no other arguments?
        2. nikoliski
          nikoliski 14 May 2018 02: 49
          -1
          There is a rocket with a passive radar seeker, it “adores” is directed precisely at the transmitter of these active jammers (by the way, our Moskit anti-ship missile is also therefore considered a dangerous anti-ship missile, if the ship closes itself from an active radar seeker with a cloud of interference-smoke screen with disperse crumb, of absorbing radio waves, plus its jamming active radar station in all ranges that suppresses any radar targeting a ship, in our anti-ship missile system there is a unit that is responsible for passive guidance, the missile will simply tune into active interference and fly exactly to their source, so that technology is stealth (when they couldn’t detect you, which means to attack) is nevertheless more effective than interference (otherwise why are we doing Su-57 then?) And we are developing PAK YES (in fact, only by copying the B2 concept we make a project of a similar bomber, just 30 years behind) )
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 03: 05
            0
            it's not so simple, because now there are towed jamming stations even on airplanes smile
            By the way, where can I see his drawing?
            1. nikoliski
              nikoliski 14 May 2018 03: 12
              -1
              So any sword gives birth to a shield - that's right, drawing what to see? RCC Mosquito? If we are talking about PAK YES, I saw a telecast showing "developments" from which it is clearly visible that the B2 flying wing was simply torn apart and based on it they are making a project (by the way, the Chinese say the same way)
              1. YELLOWSTONE
                YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 03: 15
                0
                Quote: nikoliski
                drawing what to see?

                PAK YES repeat
      3. Yak28
        Yak28 13 May 2018 17: 00
        +2
        And with the rear projection with nozzles from the SU-27, SU-57 it does not pull on stealth at all. Where is our MiG 1.44 MFI? or Su-47 "Golden Eagle"? Money nowhere, as if the SU-57 would not join them.
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 17: 36
          0
          and what F-35 nozzles?
          1. Yak28
            Yak28 13 May 2018 18: 08
            +1
            Here's a
            F-22
            The point is not nozzles, but that Russia lagged behind the United States in the production of military aircraft, and in the creation of vertical take-off and landing aircraft, Russia profiled everything that could be done in favor of the United States. "Golden eagle" ended with nothing. Conclusion, the Indians are right about Russia's technological backwardness in aircraft manufacturing
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 18: 55
              0
              Quote: YELLOWSTONE
              and F-35 what nozzles?

              in production but not in creation
              it all ended with a concrete result, which they simply did not begin to put into production, it is still inhibited as supplies of S-300
              it’s not for the Hindus to judge about this, to which the Americans are constantly chasing after exercises, and they still can’t find a cure for the Su-27.
              because
              Quote: voyaka uh
              It makes no sense.
              laughing
              1. Yak28
                Yak28 13 May 2018 19: 15
                0
                The USA has an excellent tool against the SU-27, this is a huge numerical superiority in airplanes, plus they have a mountain of aircraft for conservation, and our conservation is akin to garbage. The USA also has to study the SU-27, MiG-29 and our other planes, and Russia does not have American planes
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 12
                  0
                  nozzles in the F-35 are not the same as in the F-22 yes
                  it helped them against export MiG-29s and countries that themselves couldn’t hit their airfields and storage bases, now these freaks themselves decided to withdraw from the INF Treaty
            2. Sergey Horuzhik
              Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 20: 05
              0
              seriously? But isn't the F-35 made on the basis of the Soviet Yak? And the second question: why do you need vertical take-off and landing aircraft? Even in Soviet times, this direction was recognized as a dead end.
              1. Yak28
                Yak28 13 May 2018 20: 26
                +4
                And who recognized him as dead-end? By chance, not the designers of the Yak-141? Is it not convenient to use airplanes in the absence or damage of the runway? Moreover, with modern electronics and materials, airplanes with vertical take-off and landing can be used not only and not so much against airplanes enemy, and against ground or surface, underwater targets.
                1. Sergey Horuzhik
                  Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 20: 46
                  0
                  don’t you get clever. Do you have any education that you argue with obvious truths? Vertical take-off and landing have a cardinal flaw: the location of the fan inside divides the weapons compartment in two. This makes it impossible to fully use the latest missile weapons. That is why this path was recognized dead end.
                  1. Yak28
                    Yak28 13 May 2018 21: 27
                    +1
                    He graduated from high school, College, Technical School, satisfied, no? Advice to you for the future, competent or educated does not mean smart. And how are the weapons placed in f35? What is the constructor in the USA? And why did the VTOL aircraft also deploy VTOL aircraft on heavy carrier-carrying cruisers, too didn’t catch up with something. And England also used the harriers in vain in the war for the Falkland Islands?
                    It’s just such a tendency, if Russia doesn’t have something, for example, VTOL aircraft, aircraft carriers, then they are bad and they don’t need anything. There should be more and more weapons.
                    1. Sergey Horuzhik
                      Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 21: 36
                      0
                      Americans are suffering with this weapon, and with its speed, maneuverability and overload. Therefore, I’ll repeat the advice: don’t be clever. First design your own plane, which is more perfect than the Yak-141, and only then you will make conclusions, which is good, but which is not very. And it’s like in a proverb: the smart learns, the fool teaches, and the one who can neither the first nor the second teaches how to teach.
                      1. Yak28
                        Yak28 13 May 2018 22: 09
                        +2
                        To judge the planes I don’t have to design them. You can tell your opinion about clothes, and you are not a fashion designer or a seamstress, you judge food and not a cook. You can express an opinion on smartphones or computers, but you did not create and do not you collect, and so on and so forth. wink I’ll tell you a secret here on the forum, not all aircraft designers laughing
                  2. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 15
                    +1
                    What about you? where there in two he immediately behind the cab negative
          2. _Jack_
            _Jack_ 13 May 2018 19: 58
            0
            I about it -

            and F-35 has
            1. YELLOWSTONE
              YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 21
              0
              this has already been written about, a special shape of the shoulder blades
              1. _Jack_
                _Jack_ 13 May 2018 23: 45
                +1
                don’t tell, the special shape of the blades for working with high loads at high temperatures gives greater engine efficiency and economy, they can’t reflect the radio waves, unfortunately, in any case, they are made of metal alloys and the surface area there is very decent which negates all other attempts to reduce visibility in the rl range
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 48
                  0
                  exactly what they reflect them on the walls of the air intake in the right way about what they wrote
                  1. _Jack_
                    _Jack_ 13 May 2018 23: 55
                    0
                    not everything is so simple, if they stupidly reflect them on the walls and the walls of an ordinary pipe are straight and even so short, then there is no sense in this, to weaken an air duct either S-shaped or with partitions like f-35
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 58
                      0
                      there is a pipe and not straight
                      1. _Jack_
                        _Jack_ 14 May 2018 00: 02
                        +1
                        look not a photo - all the blades are fully open, the air intake is straight, there are no attempts to reduce the visibility

                    2. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 00: 04
                      0
                      you need to look in front
                      1. _Jack_
                        _Jack_ 14 May 2018 00: 09
                        0
                        increased see
                    3. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 00: 20
                      0
                      only half of the blades are visible and the curve channel
                      1. _Jack_
                        _Jack_ 14 May 2018 00: 32
                        0
                        the area of ​​what is decent is visible, it needs to be multiplied by another two, as a result, there is too much for stealth
                        curve channel

                        you really don’t understand what it is about or pretend to be? it should be so curved so that the blades are not visible from the front at all, so that the waves re-reflect many times inside the duct, and here the usual straight short duct as on the 4th generation, no difference
                      2. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 00: 50
                        0
                        it should not be so crooked, in the USSR they knew what stealth was, one of its developers Ufimtsev came from there to the USA, and before that his works were openly published
                    4. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 00: 51
                      0
                      what is visible reflects into the air intake channel so that the radar is not visible
                      take it easy in Russia they didn’t intentionally do it so that it was completely invisible because they did without it, with which the F-22 loses much in speed and fuel efficiency
                      1. _Jack_
                        _Jack_ 14 May 2018 21: 54
                        0
                        in the USSR they knew what stealth is

                        take it easy in Russia they didn’t intentionally do so that it was completely invisible because they did without it

                        Well, against such iron arguments I have absolutely nothing to answer laughing
                      2. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 27
                        -1
                        I agree, the Su-57 is more sharpened by speed, to the detriment of stealth
                      3. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 31
                        0
                        agreed without reading
                    5. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 23: 12
                      0
                      then read articles about the fact that the F-35 is of Soviet origin because the Americans didn’t get anything like it, the F-22 is also inferior to the Su-57 with its air intakes
                      1. nikoliski
                        nikoliski 15 May 2018 23: 11
                        -1
                        I also know that the vertical version of the F35 appeared by Yeltsin’s “efforts” (by the way, our Yak-38 deck crashed so often that they called him “creating widows” f 35 as they don’t know, yet there are no such statistics depressing, even considering that the aircraft is still brought to condition)
                      2. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 23: 56
                        0
                        again not that, but who? this name is not used in Russian yes
                        he did it through his efforts, the Americans got everything ready and their planes are complete until they are operated, so the statistics are different
                2. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 16 May 2018 16: 48
                  +1
                  Alas, for lovers of invisibility. The blades are made of either titanium or heat-resistant steels. Others have not yet learned. Regarding the fact that the shape of the blade can somehow affect the reflection of the radar probe pulse, the same is hardly believed. Moreover, the blade is made according to the laws of aerodynamics - this is not enough.
                  1. YELLOWSTONE
                    YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 21: 42
                    0
                    record-breaking (by accident) SR-71 also flew quickly and its radio visibility along Ufimtsev was even reduced without re-reflections to the air intake
                    by the way was made of Soviet titanium right now yes
                    1. TermNachTer
                      TermNachTer 16 May 2018 22: 28
                      +1
                      Much is being done from Russian titanium. For example - blanks for Motor Sich.
                      1. YELLOWSTONE
                        YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 23: 31
                        0
                        for some reason not from the American, even SR-71 yes
        2. nikoliski
          nikoliski 14 May 2018 22: 46
          -1
          the concept of Mig 1.44 was bought by the Chinese, by the way, one of the two options for their five resembles a Golden Eagle (obviously they also bought it)
      4. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 13 May 2018 18: 32
        0
        "look at the photo in the frontal projection - the compressor blades of the engines are visible" ///

        Not only this. The cap of the cockpit is set on the fuselage roughly
        with a big gap. Large gaps and flap joints
        with wings. All this is cut off by the enemy aircraft radar.

        It is unlikely that a stealth coating will be applied to the Su-57.
        It makes no sense.
        1. _Jack_
          _Jack_ 13 May 2018 20: 00
          0
          Large gaps can be eliminated if desired, but open air ducts and engine nacelles need to redo the entire project, and this will be pointless, because the project will be delayed for several more years, and he is already late
          1. Sergey Horuzhik
            Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 20: 08
            0
            will you and the Su-57 designers be more professional? However ... G-chosen, of course?
          2. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 13 May 2018 22: 13
            +2
            Must be eliminated. The rivet assembly, which was normal for the 4th generation, is not suitable for stealth.
            Su-57 is the most important military and technological project of Russia. There is nothing more important than him.
            It can not be saved and hack. If the Su-57 project succeeds, then Russia remains in the club of advanced aviation powers, if not, it flies.
            1. _Jack_
              _Jack_ 13 May 2018 23: 42
              +1
              after India left the project there is a big doubt that there will be money for mass production, apparently there isn’t any money, but without mass production the project will stall anyway, if only oil comes back to a hundred and holds there a couple of years, others Unfortunately, we don’t have any sources
              There is nothing more important than him.
              about this I would argue
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 14 May 2018 09: 53
                0
                The most important - not in combat power: Yars - more powerful, of course smile .
                And according to the combination of the latest technologies - in materials technology, mechanics, electronics, software, communications optics - the fighter has the most complicated tangle of everything.
                Moreover, in a very limited physical volume (unlike the fleet).
    3. nikoliski
      nikoliski 14 May 2018 02: 26
      0
      The fact that the Israeli f35 flew over the territory of Syria and returned unnoticed can this be considered a real test?
      1. g1washntwn
        g1washntwn 14 May 2018 07: 36
        +1
        A couple of seconds over the Golan and the launch of a rocket with a striking relief is already presented as an easy walk over the air defense zone? You made my day.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 14 May 2018 09: 57
          +1
          F-35 crossed Syria and Iraq, flew to Iran
          with intelligence purposes.
          In addition, planning bombs cannot be fired without
          going deep into enemy territory (this is not a cruise missile)
          and from a low height.
          1. g1washntwn
            g1washntwn 14 May 2018 12: 39
            +1
            Another joke. With planning bombs for reconnaissance. Make my day twice
            And what is the confidence in impunity? You can even enter Nile with your eyes closed, but it’s violet to the crocodiles that you consider yourself invisible, maybe they’re just full :)
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh 14 May 2018 12: 44
              +1
              "With planning bombs for reconnaissance." ////

              With planning bombs - attacked objects in Syria.
              And in intelligence, I think, they flew with explosives in internal compartments.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 15 May 2018 17: 32
                +1
                The latest secret airplane, through two unfriendly countries? What if engine or electronics failed? And someone gets a ton of interesting material to study. I think the Jews will simply not be allowed to do this by the owners of this airplane itself.
                1. voyaka uh
                  voyaka uh 15 May 2018 17: 40
                  0
                  The F-35 is replacing the F-16. In a few years, he will become the main "workhorse" of the Air Force. F-16 "served" and they begin to sell and write off.
                  The IDF has a long tradition - the latest technology to immediately throw into battle, do not cherish at the bases. So it was with f-15, f-16, Apache, Merkava of all modifications. The equipment, of course, fought in accidents and suffered losses
                  in combat operations.
                  F-35 is no exception. Ameriacans do not limit the use. On the contrary, inspire. Combat experience is the best advertisement.
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 15 May 2018 23: 42
                    +2
                    Judging by what I read. F - 15, and f - 16 in the Syrian company flew so that if something bad happened, fall on their territory either in Lebanon or at sea.
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 00: 01
                      0
                      and here is such a secret technology and immediately into Iranian hands
                2. nikoliski
                  nikoliski 15 May 2018 23: 06
                  -1
                  in all planes, the entire secret elemental base is destroyed in 2 ways — when the plane crashes, the respondent’s friend or alien responds to self-destruct, the same thing happens when the pilot pulls both ejection handles — the recognition system is destroyed at the same time as the seat is shot, and even that falls into the hands of Russia, we still won’t be able to produce anything earlier than in 5 years (otherwise we wouldn’t sell the S-400 to the NATO country, the Turks would love it, like the Slovaks had done with the S-300 before, they would give one radar for study to Americans, not Turks, so the Saudis, who also sold these air defense missile systems.)
                  1. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 15 May 2018 23: 43
                    +1
                    The self-destruction system is good, but it will not destroy the entire aircraft. A lot of interesting things will remain.
                  2. TermNachTer
                    TermNachTer 16 May 2018 16: 54
                    +1
                    S - 300, who just did not sell to the Yankees. But the Patriot’s firing range remained 180 km., The S - 300 Chinese have been copying since 1993, but so far without much success. I'm not saying that you can learn all the secrets at once. But if f - 35, even if it is very mashed, it will fall into the hands of eggheads - this will not be of great help.
                    1. nikoliski
                      nikoliski 16 May 2018 17: 36
                      -1
                      Here you have not enough info-S-300V, that Ukraine and Slovakia have a range of only 75 km (no one gave normal amers) the Chinese were able to make a copy from the s-300 V delivered to them, at first with a range of 100 km, but for the Turks they offered the option is already with a 200 km range (they said they would choose a S-400 with an export missile of 250 km) it’s not even a range, the liquid S-200 of the latest models had a range of 300 km and a ceiling of 40 km (export S-400 range of 250 km and a ceiling of 30 km) doesn’t mean less; the S-400 has a rocket with a speed of 2000 m per second, and the S-200 has 1500 m per second and the minimum ceiling for the S-400 is 10 meters, and for the S-200 (for the most sophisticated order of 50 meters) , the early ones have 300 meters in general) The main drawback of Patriot is not the range, but the minimum interception height (60 meters), for this purpose our team assigns a separate low-altitude radar and special missiles (these are neither 250 km hit, but special low-altitude ones, there’s a maximum speed about 120-150km range) And just something with copying without knowing the elemental base is difficult (remember Mig 25 stolen Belenko, the Americans copied it to the cog, but it did not take off)
                      1. TermNachTer
                        TermNachTer 16 May 2018 18: 57
                        +1
                        Yes, we haven’t had a long time ago with - 300. Rather, they are only on paper. The last time the races changed was either in 2002 or in 2003. They just ran out of warranty
  12. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 13 May 2018 16: 13
    0
    And what did you scream so much about the "defenselessness" of pin.dos.ii? How does it combine with you, technological backwardness and overwhelming superiority in one bottle?
  13. _Jack_
    _Jack_ 13 May 2018 16: 25
    +1
    Worse, the Russians refused to be open with their development partner, and this may have been the main reason for abandoning the Su-57.
    and who will pass on the 5th generation technology, USA? nobody seems
  14. Simon
    Simon 13 May 2018 16: 27
    0
    Quote: Seaflame
    There are directions where we are ahead, there are where we are behind. Therefore, enough money to spend on all sorts of stupid Olympics and the World Cup in football. Not to fat ...

    In vain you say so! The Olympics is politics, and the currency brought by foreign fans. In addition, the constructed sports complexes, they all will remain with us and will work for our Russian sport. request
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 14 May 2018 22: 59
      -1
      At first I was glad that the World Cup will go away, you can look cool, but as soon as I found out about the minimum ticket price of 10, I decided to go there right away (now there are no tickets anymore, the dealers have 000 cheap tickets) I think speculators are interested in interesting matches they will lay out an “extra ticket” for 18000 thousand (as was the case at the World Hockey Championship in Russia)
  15. Sergey Horuzhik
    Sergey Horuzhik 13 May 2018 16: 44
    0
    what a charm. Immediately recalls Bismarck's saying: "stupidity is a gift of God, but we should not abuse it."
  16. Berkut24
    Berkut24 13 May 2018 16: 46
    0
    The US Air Force command stopped further purchases of the F-35 due to the critical number of aircraft flaws of a structural, technological, technical and price nature. After such advertising, no one will buy this product with sound mind and solid memory. States now can only push marketing tricks or threats of punishment.
    Further in the material of the American media it is stated that Indian pilots allegedly expressed disappointment with the Russian development of the Su-57

    We must really let the Indians fly on a penguin. After hitting the hood with a helmet at the start, oxygen starvation with a bias towards hypoxia, failure of any system in the air due to software glitch, abnormal shutdown of the engine and performing aerobatics on a brick, they will have nothing to compare with. At least with the Su-30.
  17. Abram
    Abram 13 May 2018 16: 47
    +4
    nothing surprising. One cannot endlessly exploit the Soviet legacy; what is happening with space is repeated with aviation. Russia lags behind more and more
  18. Yak28
    Yak28 13 May 2018 16: 50
    +3
    Russia itself refused to develop vertical take-off and landing aircraft, selling or transferring US documentation, which at that time was revolutionary and unparalleled the Yak-141.I would honestly choose F-35 in place of India or any other country. don’t understand how much and it’s not clear what, under the name Su-57, if you can already buy an excellent modern aircraft. As long as the Su-57 enters the series and at least a couple of hundred units appear in the Russian troops, the F-35 will already be out of date lol
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 17: 38
      +1
      on such that software bugs upgrade and the same ones in the plane’s hardware are not very wassat
    2. nikoliski
      nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 45
      0
      I agree with everything, but I’m sure of the treachery of the Americans (during the “Desert Storm” Iraqi air defense systems Krotal suddenly bought from France suddenly “died”, they said there was a firmware in the control system and after passing the satellite over Iraq, after these radio commands were sent, all these air defense systems turned into a heap metal) Therefore, I insist that if you take something from America only with your electronics (Israel and Japan agreed to buy f35 with this condition), imagine such a "funny" situation. Australia sometime will quarrel with the USA and send its f35 to attack their aircraft carrier, after a certain signal all electronics f35 will be cut off and it will collapse, what is it? It’s clear that such "gifts" will not be delivered to faithful NATO friends such as the Britons, but any Pakistan can have the firmware make it so that without American programmers in 10 f35 it simply won’t take off (so that they pay extra later, or you’ll become enemies), which is probably why Pakistan decided to buy a Su-35 (by the way, if our people are not stupid, I think the S-400 sold to Turkey (it’s not for nothing that ours refused to even produce rockets from them) there will be such a program in the software (otherwise I don’t understand why the USA insistently dissuades the Turks from buying , it would be possible to understand if the patriot was offered, so they don’t sell it to them, but they are intensively pushing the Turks f35a (there is a contract with them for 100 cars)
  19. HMR333
    HMR333 13 May 2018 16: 55
    +1
    Do not tell my socks!))) First of all, India was going to buy its own version of su57 and not Russian, but due to financial shortcomings, they decided that it would be more profitable to buy Russian then than pay for the processing and development of its version based on the Russian su57! secondly, about the imperfection of equipment, this is a cheap snowstorm of Internet specialists and not the military! and thirdly, India is 99% sure that he will not buy f35 since they will not be given the opportunity to produce them at home and will not be given software so that they could use it themselves ..... because it is an expensive metal that will be turned off at any time and a piece of iron! and these cheap articles are hundreds of times stamped forever in the same way using a different technique, only the opposite result is bought by the Russian after everyone bargains that they can !!!
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 17: 39
      0
      maybe buy, but she will buy a Su-57, too, because the F-35 against Chinese invisibility is not a fighter.
      1. nikoliski
        nikoliski 15 May 2018 22: 59
        -1
        China is more an enemy than India (the Chinese are better off invading Kazakhstan, Mongolia and Siberia, there are a lot of resources and few people there, than trying to fight with India that they will capture them? There is practically no oil, and the population of India is growing at such a rate that by 2030 year will overtake China (by the end of the century will reach more than 2 billion people)
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 00: 05
          0
          and what the hell is tibet for? nevertheless fought and piled on the Indians
  20. sir_obs
    sir_obs 13 May 2018 16: 59
    0
    Quote: _Jack_
    look at the photo in the frontal projection

    Giving predictions on a photo is to psychics.
    I am not a specialist in radar and material denib, as in modern aviation. Therefore, I prefer not to enter into disputes, so as not to look like a complete sucker.
    In order to judge and try, it is necessary to have knowledge and experience based not on articles from advertising booklets, but fundamental knowledge on specialized subjects and, importantly, to have experience in applying this knowledge in practice. Then the words will at least something.

    And so it's all on the level of "... Briand is the head ..." (Golden Calf)
  21. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General 13 May 2018 17: 00
    +3
    Our song is good, start over.

    Mattresses use even the most despicable ways, if only to suck in their raw fe-35s, then you need to beat off the money.

    And the Indian market is very greasy. Here are the mattresses dancing the dance of Japanese orphans in front of the Indians, and they grab a sleeve in the Turkish bazaar.
  22. Bibliographer
    Bibliographer 13 May 2018 17: 11
    +1
    I understand why Americans and Indians print such nonsense. But I don’t understand why VO publishes a similar **** at home
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 17: 40
      0
      then there is reason to think
  23. zhvjhrf
    zhvjhrf 13 May 2018 18: 52
    0
    Let them write. Only they need to buy weapons yet, airfields to convert. So they’ll break down and buy from us as usual. It's a question of time.
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 15 May 2018 22: 55
      -1
      f35 in the variant of vertical take-off and landing, long-cane airfields are not needed at all for any dry cargo ship, you can put a mini-aircraft carrier here, in addition, in case of war, with massive attacks on f35 airfields, you can drive it somewhere into the jungle (as we did in the Great Patriotic War airfields at the edges of the forest )
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 00: 06
        0
        since you missed everywhere, then he has problems with this even on the UDC and aircraft carriers
        1. nikoliski
          nikoliski 16 May 2018 00: 26
          -1
          https://youtu.be/yEYXmfOwKaU посмотрите нет никаких проблем( только у ватных патриотов мечта, что он не летает вовсе)
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 02: 10
            0
            Quote: nikoliski
            cotton patriots

            shit ... winked
  24. izja
    izja 13 May 2018 19: 06
    +1
    Quote: MPN
    Quote: Wild_Grey_Wolf
    They themselves believe in what they write.

    They write what they say and the more they write, the more they believe ... request
    And with all this, the Yankees manage to threaten Turkey with the refusal of supplies of F-35 ... No.


    Turks will not get it anyway :)
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 23
      -1
      I don’t understand what Turkey was going to pay? an order for 100 f35 at a price of more than $ 100 million each is already worth more than 10 billion (or is it a loan? It doesn’t work with America, it’s not we who sold the S-400 on credit, which we ourselves gave to the Turks)
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 00: 07
        0
        mb tomatoes?
  25. Alsur
    Alsur 13 May 2018 19: 27
    0
    Quote: svp67
    Quote: Not bad
    All tricks are good to suck in your technique.

    Including prohibited ... especially in the issue of "vtyuhivaniya". Otherwise, this business cannot be called. And I understand the Americans, they are trying in every possible way to reduce their expenses for this project. But what is our position? With the project of the joint Russian-Indian military transport aircraft Multi-role Transport Aircraft (MTA), we have already flown.

    A good argument is the picture.
  26. Mentat
    Mentat 13 May 2018 22: 09
    0
    Quote: YELLOWSTONE
    Why is it so outstanding? decades and millions took to repeat the movements of a drunk loader lol

    You are clowning around in vain. The Boston Dynamics designs today the most advanced robots on Earth. Not admitting it is stupid. Taking measures to reduce the backlog is imperative.
    They came close to the practical implementation of the android platform of an autonomous combat robot. Within 5 years, the appearance of an active sample is possible. There is no clowning or ridicule inappropriate.
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 13 May 2018 23: 22
      0
      not at all, they are even behind the Japanese
  27. g1washntwn
    g1washntwn 14 May 2018 07: 40
    0
    The more options to cross the C-400 and F-35 in the sky (Turkey or India are not the essence), the closer the furry animal to American fairy tales. Let the Indians buy, what are you really clinging to? This wedding should take place with songs, dances and elephants.
  28. pavelty
    pavelty 14 May 2018 10: 19
    +1
    Why is Pakistan going to buy the FE-35? Funny))
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 15 May 2018 00: 33
      -1
      Su-35 are going
  29. Mentat
    Mentat 14 May 2018 15: 20
    0
    Quote: YELLOWSTONE
    not at all, they are even behind the Japanese

    Behind which specimens? Asimo, who squats down, because the Japanese, like to the moon with cancer, at least approximate the implementation of the bipedal system of human movement?
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 14 May 2018 22: 00
      0
      Behind everyone, just the Japanese on etiquette also go squatting laughing
  30. nikoliski
    nikoliski 14 May 2018 22: 25
    -1
    https://youtu.be/yEYXmfOwKaU Красивое видео по теме, просто завораживает
  31. nikoliski
    nikoliski 15 May 2018 01: 50
    -1
    YELLOWSTONE,
    The city ceased to exist only after the mass appearance of the Faustniks, before that, any tank in the city felt quite good, sticking out one tower because of a pile of stones from under the destroyed house, that's when at the end of the war there were massive Faustors, then yes, the tanks began to fear roofs houses and upper floors (DShK on Is-2 mainly served to protect against them, flashing the walls of houses killing hidden Hitler youth) in general, with skillful protection of the tank, it helps the infantry to take the city - it will close the landmine in any building window, forcing the defenders to change their position to retreat , this is the simplest tactic. (by the way, the German stormtiger in Stalingrad was used not just like that - during the storming of Pavlov’s house the Germans lost people more in a month than when they took Paris) and such “toys” as the stormtigger then defended the buildings well without requiring to take floor to floor.
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 15 May 2018 01: 58
      0
      because of the grenades they were never there, they generally fly further from above and the one who uses them does not need to look for folds of terrain
      the stormtiger has such a pipe that even a sniper is not needed to get there
  32. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 15 May 2018 14: 16
    0
    nikoliski,
    4 times, I can still believe it, but 12 - you will excuse me, this is already an order of magnitude. While the cars are about the same age and generation.
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 15 May 2018 14: 40
      -1
      Am I just taking numbers from the ceiling? google it, there is an excellent article about eurofighter, it says that without an EPR 1m armament and about our su-35 it is written that it is 12 meters (it was still "licked" the su-27 was 15 meters without armament)
  33. Mentat
    Mentat 15 May 2018 16: 00
    0
    Quote: YELLOWSTONE
    Behind everyone, just the Japanese on etiquette also go squatting laughing

    Those. just to blurt out.
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 00: 07
      0
      no they have etiquette so it is impossible
      Japanese robotics and computers have always been ahead of American
  34. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 15 May 2018 16: 52
    +2
    nikoliski,
    Take it easy. The vast majority are normal, sane people. is everywhere, and even in Russia.
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 15 May 2018 16: 52
      +2
      The editor deleted the word - well, they themselves understood.
  35. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 15 May 2018 16: 55
    +1
    nikoliski,
    Regarding Tyson, I do not quite agree with you, since I was engaged in boxing in my youth, but this is not a reason for scandal.
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski 15 May 2018 17: 21
      -1
      Tyson is also an Olympic champion (few people know about this, he made the fastest knockout in junior light heavyweights), he is a multiple world heavyweight champion, defeated his opponents by knockouts in the first rounds, and Lomachenko is generally lightweight, how can they be compared at all? I understand Klitschko also, he undoubtedly entered his name in history as did iron Mike.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 15 May 2018 17: 36
        +1
        Sorry, I was engaged in boxing, and you speak like a viewer. There were boxing schools in the world - English, German and Soviet. It was Cuban, that is, Soviet. There is no American boxing school. As long as the Negro has health, there is a champion. Health has ended - there is no champion. In general, what is now shown on television is a show, not boxing. I haven’t watched for a long time. Klitschko is also a show.
        1. nikoliski
          nikoliski 15 May 2018 18: 10
          -1
          Well, you know better (I’m a jitser, it’s fashionable for us now) As for the spectator in the finals, it will be more pleasant for me as a spectator to look at Gassiev's pro versus Olympic boxer Usyk (Usyk does not try to knock out, it’s just as boring and monotonously scoring points as our Misha Aloyan - this is boxing from the section, I yawn) And Gassiev is trying to deliver a decisive blow as a pro-previous knockout fight in the liver, the latter generally took Dorticos out of the ring, I like this boxing (I weigh 90 kg + I like strong powerful punches, not a point one lightweight ballet, well, I expressed my opinion of the viewer wink )
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 15 May 2018 23: 47
            +1
            What tactics to choose, it is more visible to the coach and the fighter on the spot. But I repeat - this is not a fight, this is a show. And for some, good grandmas.
  36. nikoliski
    nikoliski 16 May 2018 00: 01
    -1
    YELLOWSTONE,
    generally groaning is an old Russian expression, I advise you to read Russian folk tales to your child (expand your vocabulary)
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 02: 17
      0
      in fact, people have been living together for a long time yes
      let's get back to the practical side of the issue, for example, all F-35s still fly only near the shore lol
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 16 May 2018 16: 57
        +1
        Because the pilot is scared. As a rule, all deck aircraft were twin-engine
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 21: 50
          0
          and the technicians at the UDC are even more terrible, and everyone except the pilots at the AB generally laugh,
  37. Mentat
    Mentat 16 May 2018 15: 15
    +1
    Quote: YELLOWSTONE
    no they have etiquette so it is impossible
    Japanese robotics and computers have always been ahead of American

    Do you even think about something before writing, or care about the meaning of what is written? Why did you insert this stream of letters here?
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE 16 May 2018 21: 53
      0
      yes, of course, even two steps forward lol
      it was because all the Soviet news came first there, the first bummer was with the F-35 yes