Military Review

"Vintorez" removes epaulets

102
After a successful debut in the Russian civilian market weapons “Saygi MK” and “automatic” execution of “Saygi-410”, the theme of conversion of army “shooting” was enthusiastically picked up by Russian gunsmiths. This trend is developing in two directions: the creation of initially civilian weapons based on army models (Saiga MK, Tiger) and the fencing of military weapons by eliminating the automatic fire function and (or) installing ballistic tags in the barrel (VPO - 136, OP SCS, KO-44). It was the latter direction that led to the appearance of such “monsters” as “hunting carbines” based on the “DP” and “Maxim” machine guns in gun shops.


"Vintorez" removes epaulets


The time has come to the legendary VSS (sniper rifle special) "Vintorez".

Recall that the AU / VSS silent weapon system created by Soviet gunsmiths at the end of 80, in the opinion of many experts, is close to the ideal of special forces weapons and enjoys well-deserved respect both in Russian law enforcement agencies and abroad.

The first combat use of weapons took place in Afghanistan. However, two Chechen wars brought world-wide fame to this weapon.



This is how the use of "Vintorez" and "Shafts" during the street fighting in Grozny was described by a soldier of the 45 Special Forces Airborne Regiment (now a brigade):

“The whole day after the quarter that was to be cleaned, we observed, tracking every smallest detail. At night, they began to act. The sappers were the first to advance: they removed, if there were, Chechen stretch marks and installed their own ones, blocking the possible ways of retreat for Dudaev and the reinforcements approach. Then the group quietly seeped into the building, most often through some "non-standard" hole, like a break in the wall. For some time they calmed down, trying to determine the location of the militants in the house by the sounds, then quietly began to move, destroying the "spirits" with the help of silent weapons.

The “Vintorez” rifle, the “Val” machine gun and the PSS pistol — the whole silent complex showed themselves perfectly. Dudayev residents, as a rule, did not understand what was going on - people fell, communication was lost. Most of the time, the case was limited to a silent weapon. ”


Another participant in the events of this period told how, during a short-range fire contact, a reconnaissance fighter armed with AS “Val”, suddenly confronted with a column of insurgents, managed to neutralize five militants, including the head patrol, before Dudayev’s soldiers realized that they were fired upon.

And now, all citizens who wish, without any medical or legal contraindications, can get almost a real Vintorez.

The Russian company Molot-Arms offered the civilian model “Vintoreza” in three calibers as much: in the “smooth” 366ТКМ, in the 7.62х39, and in the “regular” 9х39.

And in April, the official site of one of the most popular weapons store in the metropolitan region reported on the sale of the Vintorez KO (hunting carbine) (9х39) manufactured by the Tula Arms Plant.

It is necessary to clarify that, unlike its combat prototype, which externally looks like two-drops of Vintorez, it is deprived of its main function - flameless and silent shooting. Pipe "silencer" performs a purely decorative function. KO also received a longer (410mm, instead of 200 mm) barrel without perforation, changes in USM, and some other differences.

Of course, in the civilian version not subsonic SP-5 and SP-6 special cartridges are used, as in combat samples, but hunting cartridges 9x39, released at the Klimovsk cartridge factory, with a shell bullet with a lead core. Their initial speed is about 500 m / s.



It is clear that this weapon is primarily aimed at collectors, fans of “postrelushki”, combined with military reconstruction, not constrained in funds (the cost of a carbine more than 130 000 rubles, and one cartridge - 70 rubles).

However, its ability to use in hunting is interesting. A hypothetically heavy bullet weighing in 18,5 grams can be successfully used on a forest hunt on an average and large beast. Especially if the release of expansive and semi-shell bullets will be adjusted. Distances of such hunts rarely exceed 100 meters, in which the “steepness” of the trajectory does not really matter.

Note that the niche "forest cartridge" is 9x53, under which the Saiga carbine is produced. However, due to his “narrow specialization” he did not receive wide distribution. And hunters prefer the more versatile 7,62x54, 308, 30-06.

Based on this, it can be assumed that the new cartridge is unlikely to become popular among hunters.

Most likely, due to its price and narrow “specialization”, KO Vintorez will hardly become a bestseller of the Russian arms market and will be in demand only in a relatively small circle of connoisseurs and collectors.
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  1. DesToeR
    DesToeR 17 May 2018 07: 59
    +5
    366 TCM is slowly gaining popularity, including among hunters. But this is a smooth caliber, but 9x39 rifled and with 500m / s will probably be more interesting. Another thing is that the vodka in that trunk is far from BCC. Only the external image.
    1. Dam
      Dam 17 May 2018 14: 31
      +19
      For 130 and with a cartridge for 000, after castration, no one needs this barrel
      1. raw174
        raw174 17 May 2018 14: 54
        +5
        Quote: Damm
        For 130 and with a cartridge for 000, after castration, no one needs this barrel

        Do not forget that Ponte is more expensive than money. The author is right in saying that:
        Most likely, due to its price and narrow “specialization”, KO Vintorez will hardly become a bestseller of the Russian arms market and will be in demand only in a relatively small circle of connoisseurs and collectors.

        Units will buy.
        1. Dam
          Dam 17 May 2018 17: 22
          +21
          Collectors need authenticity, post-shooters - a cheap cartridge, hunters - the effectiveness of hitting a target. There is nothing here except the horse price
          1. RaptorF22
            RaptorF22 18 May 2018 05: 46
            +2
            That's exactly nah he does not need lol
        2. Meshcheryak
          Meshcheryak 18 May 2018 15: 10
          +4
          Yes, absolutely right! Those units that Maxim already bought a hunting carbine!))))
        3. Shelest2000
          Shelest2000 19 May 2018 15: 17
          +1
          the cost of a carbine is more than 130 rubles, and one cartridge - 000 rubles

          Sorry, but for such a price for this and that, to buy this hardware, but for that kind of money - yes, what for. I’ll somehow manage with my SVT-40, for which cartridges from 15-17 rubles start, and for 70 I buy excellent cartridges, and it’s not clear what is not clear for what. Let them out, these Nedovintorez, a couple of dozen and close the topic.
          Abydna, that in the same States our cartridges are 3 times cheaper than ours. However, I understand that we do not and never will have a weapons market. Because the prices are the same, and such a quality for our weapons, and the range ... Alas ...
      2. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 18 May 2018 05: 45
        +5
        I agree this is some kind of Pontorez wink
      3. Sergey ippon
        Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 27
        0
        the barrel, on the contrary, is not castrated, is elongated, there is no perforation.
        9na39 with 500m / s every two slaughter and more flat SP.
        just BCC is neutered to the maximum for noiselessness - and the trajectory is half-mortar.
        Yes, and the cartridges of the joint venture are recycled as silently as possible due to flatness and slaughter.
    2. the47th
      the47th 18 May 2018 11: 27
      +1
      .366 is good because it shows ballistics at short distances, similar to 7,62x39. You can not wait 5 years, but train in practical shooting from a carbine now. On the hunt about the same situation.
      1. RaptorF22
        RaptorF22 18 May 2018 12: 28
        +3
        Something I did not see people who used 366 tkm while hunting winked cartridge price 45 50 rubles apiece completely discourages the desire to buy this miracle weapon wink The price of a scooter is not much lower. There are often cases of a tightly closed shutter wedge due to the overheating of the misfire sleeve. winked People willingly take boars and saigas 12 that work an order of magnitude better than 366 tkm and 7.62x39 even though the saiga are at least the most reliable and there are always cartridges for them
        1. Meshcheryak
          Meshcheryak 18 May 2018 15: 20
          +2
          Personally, I know several people who bought barrels for 366 rounds, but they don’t take them for hunting for well-known reasons, but bought because I could not wait to wait 5 years))) And for practical shooting, it is certainly better to take a dvenashka (cartridge in the region of 20p) and when hunting it is more universal.
          1. RaptorF22
            RaptorF22 18 May 2018 17: 57
            +2
            Isn’t it easier to change the term from 5 years to 1 year and calmly sell reliable, proven weapons? why do we need this miracle yudo? And allow cops and small things under a smooth-bore license?
            1. Meshcheryak
              Meshcheryak 19 May 2018 18: 35
              +2
              I heard for the little things, the right initiative! Indeed, in front of a smooth-bore bullet and buckshot a small piece is a little fart!))) And it’s not easier for us to change the term, because not in our power))) Now, as I understand it, everything is going to tighten and complicate the resolution of civilian trunks ...
  2. tchoni
    tchoni 17 May 2018 08: 18
    +17
    Good news for collectors and lovers of all that. The next stage, presumably, will be the release of hunting carbines on the basis of the PTRD and PTRS under the "elephant hunting" cartridge 14x114?
    1. Kot_Kuzya
      Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 08: 30
      +3
      We should sell such guns to bourgeois hunting for elephants and rhinos in Africa. I think they’ll buy it for at least 50 thousand dollars, all the same, only oh-very-rich people are engaged in elephant hunting.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni 17 May 2018 10: 28
        0
        And what only to the bourgeoisie? There’s our “Kinder Surprise” - the primorye didn’t work out of him, so he went to the leading travelers. Just around Africa hanging around.
        And the blacks themselves, in the same Angola, PGI -1 for elephant hunting was very much appreciated. The cartridge is the same there
      2. DMB_95
        DMB_95 17 May 2018 18: 52
        +1
        Quote: Kot_Kuzya
        Such guns should be sold to bourgeois hunting elephants and rhinos.

        Bourgeois fenders from the return of the PTR. They only have enough health for a couple of shots.
        1. tchoni
          tchoni 17 May 2018 22: 03
          0
          Quote: DMB_95
          health

          Oh, they’re buying the five hundredth magnum and the other "elephant fox." T on PTR lovers there
    2. alean245
      alean245 17 May 2018 12: 59
      +2
      The next stage, presumably, will be the release of hunting carbines on the basis of the PTRD and PTRS under the "elephant hunting" cartridge 14x114?

      Better immediately based on the ZIS-3.))))))
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 13: 32
        +1
        No, such a bandura will tear an elephant to pieces, as 7,62 * 54 tears a hare.
        1. Meshcheryak
          Meshcheryak 18 May 2018 15: 27
          +2
          He personally shot the lightweight shell 7,62 * 54 of Novosibirsk in Rusak, a small hole) can tear at the one who shoots with a half-shell!)))
        2. Sergey ippon
          Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 29
          0
          Strange .. - did they file a bullet?
    3. Meshcheryak
      Meshcheryak 18 May 2018 15: 24
      +2
      We will wait for the PTRD!))))
  3. Kot_Kuzya
    Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 08: 26
    +2
    There is no better than a 12-gauge bear, anyway they hunt it in the winter, luring them out of their lairs, and shoot from a distance of 20-30 meters, where the accuracy of the smooth-bore is quite sufficient. The cartridge is very expensive, 7,62 * 39 can be bought for 11-13 rubles, the 308th or 7,62 * 54 for 20-22 rubles. With such a price, none of the hunters will buy it. Reduce the price to 15 rubles, and it will become popular with hunters. Due to the low initial speed, he will not tear small game, and for an average or large beast, the larger the caliber and the heavier the bullet, the better.
    1. Blue fox
      Blue fox 17 May 2018 09: 01
      +2
      The bear is taken "on oats" from the hiding places. There, a distance of 50 meters often happens, here the smooth 12th loses a lot to the “rough” 9mm. The other question is that hunters do not really favor modern weapons with fighting roots, primarily because of weight and other ergonomics. The price of a cartridge, as you rightly noted, is also an essential factor, but among fans it is leveled out by reloading.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 09: 04
        +3
        Reloading rifled cartridges in the Russian Federation is already allowed?
        1. alex-cn
          alex-cn 17 May 2018 09: 39
          +2
          Given that foster bullets in 12 magnum give a departure speed of up to 455 m / s with good accuracy, and Lancaster with 20 gauge and a pool weighing 36 grams (dispersion at 50 m 6 cm) and a slightly lower speed, good accuracy up to 100 meters and while they are not rifled, then the cartridge 9x39 prospects as hunting, most likely, are not bright. Yes, and the price of Lancaster is half that.
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 11: 08
            0
            If they make the price of this cartridge 15 rubles, then it will become popular. Still, a rifled weapon is a rifled weapon, accuracy is an order of magnitude better than a smooth-bore.
            1. RaptorF22
              RaptorF22 18 May 2018 05: 51
              +2
              Better pistols and machine guns allowed for 100 bought without hesitation, and that shit shit is not needed lol
        2. RaptorF22
          RaptorF22 18 May 2018 12: 29
          0
          No are not allowed and pistols too No.
        3. Sergey ippon
          Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 30
          0
          that's bad, no.
          it’s stupid not to think of anything.
    2. faridg7
      faridg7 17 May 2018 14: 55
      +1
      Quote: Kot_Kuzya
      The cartridge is very expensive, 7,62 * 39 can be bought for 11-13 rubles, the 308th or 7,62 * 54 for 20-22 rubles. With such a price, none of the hunters will buy it.

      Is it expensive? A cartridge for 70 rubles is expensive? We have a 12-gauge cartridge with Poleva6 costs 100-120 rubles (the Poleva 6 bullet itself costs about 60-70 rubles), and a pack of cartridges 308 costs from 2500 to 8000 (for 8000, of course, not Barnaul). This is expensive.
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 23: 07
        +2
        This is where you saw such prices? A cartridge with a Polev bullet costs 50 rubles, and bourgeois cartridges can cost space.
        1. faridg7
          faridg7 18 May 2018 00: 10
          +1
          Welcome to Vladivostok
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 18 May 2018 01: 00
            0
            I do not believe! From Barnaul to Moscow, to Vladik, a similar distance. And Vladik is by no means Chukotka and Norilsk, so as to increase prices.
            1. faridg7
              faridg7 18 May 2018 01: 03
              +1
              Well, I would put you a photo from the window, but they won’t understand such a photo session in the store, it’s forbidden. we have to buy sporting cartridges at 20 r - these are the cheapest.
            2. RaptorF22
              RaptorF22 18 May 2018 05: 52
              0
              In Sakhalin, the price is the same as in Vladik winked
            3. faridg7
              faridg7 18 May 2018 12: 25
              +6
              Quote: Kot_Kuzya
              I do not believe! From Barnaul to Moscow, to Vladik, a similar distance. And Vladik is by no means Chukotka and Norilsk, so as to increase prices.

              No, what did you expect? We have an advantage over other regions of Russia - there is a whole ministry for the development of the Far East, and it really works and there is even a result of work - the outflow of the population from the region has grown (well, at least the same should grow as a result of the efforts of the whole ministry)
              1. RaptorF22
                RaptorF22 18 May 2018 17: 59
                +1
                Funny if it wasn’t so sad sad
    3. Dam
      Dam 17 May 2018 22: 29
      +1
      For reference, den hunting has long been banned.
    4. Meshcheryak
      Meshcheryak 18 May 2018 15: 31
      +2
      There is no point in making it massive, even in the army it is not enough, as I understand it, we are talking about a conversion option, not a new one, only the barrel will be replaced and the trigger will be neutered.
  4. seos
    seos 17 May 2018 09: 27
    +1
    A muffler in artisanal conditions, any plumber can do ...
    So we should expect a decrease in the number of deputies and TOP managers ....
    1. Meshcheryak
      Meshcheryak 18 May 2018 15: 34
      +2
      Only Vintorez has a trunk of 20 cm, and the rest is a jammer, but here we are talking about a 45 cm trunk, if you also wrap a bush there, then you need such a bandura, it’s better to take the Tiger right away and it’s 2 times cheaper))
      1. Sergey ippon
        Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 33
        0
        the muffler works only on subsounds.
        You can artificially reduce the weight of gunpowder by 25%, increasing the mass of the bullet by 50% (this is artificially difficult with this.
        1. Meshcheryak
          Meshcheryak 19 May 2018 17: 56
          +1
          Everything is correct. It is not difficult to reduce gunpowder, but then it is necessary to compress it carefully, and on the knees it doesn’t work out very well. In general, it is easier to do on AKM on the seven, and the five is still very noisy.
  5. Serzh_R
    Serzh_R 17 May 2018 09: 33
    0
    Most likely, due to its price and narrow “specialization”, KO Vintorez will hardly become a bestseller of the Russian arms market and will be in demand only in a relatively small circle of connoisseurs and collectors.

    I agree, but for fans of the soul, the airsoft version of the screw cutter is enough.
    1. RaptorF22
      RaptorF22 18 May 2018 05: 54
      +1
      Better ak 74 and Abakans with aek with automatic fire under 200 bought and that figarez nafig not needed lol
  6. san4es
    san4es 17 May 2018 09: 50
    +3
    "Vintorez" removes epaulets

  7. polpot
    polpot 17 May 2018 10: 14
    +2
    We missed the time in 90; people would have stood in line
  8. Curious
    Curious 17 May 2018 10: 28
    +5
    Really everything about dunning:“But once there is sufficient profit available, the capital becomes bold. Provide 10%, and the capital agrees to any use, at 20% it becomes lively, at 50% it is positively ready to break its head, at 100% it violates all human laws, with 300% there’s no crime that he wouldn’t risk, at least under pain of the gallows. "
    Considering how much and what is stored in warehouses and how much and what you can “protect” and sell to “hamsters from militarism” for a penny, I won’t be surprised at the soon appearance of “hunting” variants of the DShK, KPV. Yes, and AGS-17 can be altered for firing shots. Some feathers will fly.
    Interestingly, someone will think of writing about the dynamics of the number of animals over the past 15-20 years in the country.
    1. AlexMark
      AlexMark 17 May 2018 10: 56
      +17
      Good day. The most funny thing about all this is that the number of livestock does not fall significantly, and some species even grow.
      Present on the hunt of such "hunters". The equipment seemed to have gathered a small country to capture, even a pair of camouflage faces were painted. As a result of the hunt, not a single animal was hurt, as this crowd, like a herd of elephants, came across the forest. But one of the “hunters” in the evening accidentally chopped his thumb off with an ax. request
      It is clear that this phenomenon is not universal, but definitely massive.
      Picture about boars:
      1. Kot_Kuzya
        Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 11: 13
        +3
        Yes, now hunting is entertainment, not a way of survival. Therefore, they don’t particularly grieve if they didn’t get anything. In addition, a lot of people buy trunks not for hunting, but simply for post-shootings.
        1. faridg7
          faridg7 17 May 2018 14: 40
          +2
          Quote: Kot_Kuzya
          Yes, now hunting is entertainment, not a way of survival.

          Let me clarify, this is a rather expensive entertainment. Unfortunately, the season has long passed and I simply did not keep the price lists of hunting farms for licenses, I can only approximately remember what it was.
          Bear-45000r
          Roe deer -16000r
          Deer - 26000 rub
          Isyubr - 28000r
          So, with such licenses, it’s impossible to talk about hunting animals for survival — you will be left without pants with such survival. At such rates, I’m not surprised that in the outback people prefer more poachers-
          1. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 15: 02
            0
            Therefore, I say that now hunting is the lot of urban majors who go hunting to take a clean break from family life, drink vodka and shoot bottles.
            1. faridg7
              faridg7 17 May 2018 15: 29
              +4
              Damn, I haven’t ranked myself as a major yet. I just want to indulge in good meat from time to time. Just today I’m cooking roast in a pot of venison. But we don’t drink vodka on the hunt, and it’s not customary for our company to shoot bottles in the woods, if only for a shooting target, and then only at the beginning of the season for shooting optics, well, we don’t have a shooting range in our region and indeed there’s nowhere to shoot a bullet except in the forest.
              1. Curious
                Curious 17 May 2018 16: 14
                0
                Deer, how hot is it from?
                1. faridg7
                  faridg7 17 May 2018 16: 18
                  +1
                  Well, the huntsman said that probably three years, you have to believe, he knows better.
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 17 May 2018 16: 21
                    0
                    I would not believe the huntsman. Although in the process of eating, this question is usually clarified.
                    1. faridg7
                      faridg7 17 May 2018 16: 33
                      0
                      Normal, tasty deer. It’s a pity there’s not much left in the freezer, of course, it’ll not be enough until the next season. We ate the roe deer almost immediately, cut the red deer too (stroganin did, I like it almost like a sekas), but there is still some red deer, so there is something to treat your sons upon arrival
                      1. Curious
                        Curious 17 May 2018 17: 04
                        0
                        It all depends on individual assumptions. I eat all hoofed animals only in dumplings.
              2. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 23: 08
                0
                I would beware of eating wild beast meat. You never know there Trichinella, Salmonella, rabies and other infection.
                1. faridg7
                  faridg7 18 May 2018 00: 28
                  +2
                  Firstly, roe deer, deer and red deer do not eat; they are herbivores. This is a boar and a bear, you can find such a bouquet.
                  Secondly, we don’t poach, huntsmen when cutting carcasses take samples for analysis, give them to the laboratory, so if they find anything there, they will tell us about it.
                  By the way, therefore, we try not to hit anything on the hunt, for example, we don’t even think of shooting a bear (you pay a license, but you can’t take meat), if boars come out, then you choose a piglet as a target, it’s less likely that you will throw meat away. Well, already roe deer and deer, you look only so that the young animals are not hooked, they will close it like an adult, and then after cutting there is nothing to carry.
                2. Sergey ippon
                  Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 35
                  0
                  I agree, especially the hogs.
              3. Foundling
                Foundling 18 May 2018 23: 58
                0
                As they removed the sighting of weapons from the Rules of the Hunt, they mold the 20.13 people for firing at targets in the forest because, from the point of view of the law, the hunting grounds are not a place adapted for firing at targets. Only if it is not painted on the back of the boar
        2. RaptorF22
          RaptorF22 18 May 2018 05: 56
          0
          Here you need machines winked
      2. Curious
        Curious 17 May 2018 12: 08
        +1
        Data, in general, almost a decade ago. This is the first. The second - wild boar - is not an indicator. And the third - 2010 for many species - the maximum, after which there is a decline. Even the boar.
        1. Curious
          Curious 17 May 2018 12: 17
          +1
          And here is the bunny.

          There are classic patterns of hunting weapons. They are quite enough for a productive hunt. In Russia there is no beast that could not be obtained from a 12-gauge smoothbore gun. And for a normal hunter this is enough.
          1. AlexMark
            AlexMark 17 May 2018 12: 37
            +2
            I agree, a not quite correct graph showed that it ends at the peak. Obviously, the failure in 2010-2011 is due to the massive shooting of wild boars due to the fear of ASF. But the statistics on the hare next to the schedule for the lynx says that not only hunting leads to a reduction in the number, there are also other factors.
          2. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 12: 38
            +4
            In fact, anyone who is more or less familiar with the biology of a hare knows that their number does not depend on hunting them, but on natural cycles, when the number of a hare increases explosively, then decreases in the same explosive way. The man has nothing to do with it, the presence of food, epidemics and predators play a decisive role in the number of hares. Those foxes, wolves, lynxes and owls / owls exterminate hares hundreds of times more than humans.
            1. Curious
              Curious 17 May 2018 13: 01
              0
              I am familiar with the Lotka-Volterra model and a little with the hare biology. And also with how it affects human life on the example of our hunting grounds. The fact that hokdeyatelnost and hunting do not affect its numbers is reckless.
              1. Kot_Kuzya
                Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 13: 15
                +2
                Hares are very prolific creatures, so they can easily restore their numbers. In addition, they hunt less and less every year. Who would like to come out of the hunt, strip the hare off, gut it? It’s easier to buy beef or chicken at the store. I know hunters who distribute almost all the booty to friends and relatives, as their wives are categorically against plucking, skinning and gutting the husband's booty. Well, for the sake of her husband, they can pluck a couple of ducks or a couple of hares flush and gut, but no more.
                1. Curious
                  Curious 17 May 2018 13: 18
                  +2
                  "Who would like to come out of the hunt, to tear the skin from a hare, to gut it?"
                  In general, the animals that would make themselves hara-kiri and jump out of the skin after a shot and not. So these procedures are a necessary attribute of hunting.
              2. Sergey ippon
                Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 37
                0
                very much affect hares another - the number of foxes became huge
                most foxes are infected with all sorts of rubbish - earlier there was shooting, right now, all do not care.
                Bunnies eat foxes as kids.
            2. Dam
              Dam 18 May 2018 00: 58
              0
              Namely, a good hunter is primarily involved in regulating the number of predators
          3. Kot_Kuzya
            Kot_Kuzya 17 May 2018 12: 44
            +4
            There are classic patterns of hunting weapons. They are quite enough for a productive hunt. On the territory of Russia there is no beast that could not be obtained from a 12-gauge smoothbore gun
            The best hunting weapon is the classic 12-caliber double-barreled shotgun. Amazingly simple, reliable and versatile weapons.
            1. Curious
              Curious 17 May 2018 13: 04
              +3
              Here, here I completely agree with you. Moreover, in addition to the qualities you listed above, it also has a very peculiar aesthetics, which, in my opinion, does not have any other type of weapon.
          4. Foundling
            Foundling 18 May 2018 23: 59
            0
            I feel sorry for the skin
    2. Dam
      Dam 17 May 2018 22: 34
      0
      Do not believe it, over 10 years it has increased dramatically in the LO. Fields are sown almost everywhere, marriages are also plagued. After the 90s, it’s just some kind of holiday
  9. Andrey VOV
    Andrey VOV 17 May 2018 11: 59
    +2
    Friends called “hunters” to hunt like that .. they went on a “shishige”, well, all ranks by rank, weapons, equipment, well, they gave me a Tula gun as a person from hunting, I don’t remember .. arrived .. unloaded .. then I don’t remember .. again I remember two days later, the headache is terrible, a bunch of spent cartridges and incomprehensible remains of a riddled beast ... well, as if after that I was fishing more ... I understand that real hunters probably don’t do this, but like this experience .. and what kind of weapons the men did not have ... whole arsenals
    1. faridg7
      faridg7 17 May 2018 13: 51
      +4
      Oh .. just fabulous dolbs ... or rather fabulously lucky .... In this situation, obscure riddled remains could well be the corpse of one of the "hunters". It is natural that there is no desire to go hunting again in such a company. You can only sympathize.
      1. beeper
        beeper 17 May 2018 14: 27
        +2
        I also thought about it, about the remains of the "hunter" ... wink
        1. Egg
          Egg 17 May 2018 14: 41
          +4
          Quote: pishchak
          I also thought about it, about the remains of the "hunter" ...

          so it’s probably they were who counted them there .. these hunters laughing
  10. beeper
    beeper 17 May 2018 12: 16
    +3
    For so many years, the Vintorez sniper rifle has been manufactured, and factory gunsmiths have not bothered request equip her butt with a regular adjustable “cheek” ?! negative
    1. faridg7
      faridg7 17 May 2018 16: 03
      +1
      I’m interested in something else. Like this rifle with an effort on the trigger? Why I ask, we have the owner of the "tiger" in our company, and there is the owner of a carbine for sabatti. A man with a tiger often smears it (no, of course, if the beast comes out to him, then he will get it, but the store with him is most likely to be empty, and he often spoils the beast by getting into the intestines). A person with sabatti shoots less, more often gets into the head of the beast. So somehow Valera (tiger) asked me to try to shoot from a sabatti, picked it up, started to apply and then a shot. Well, he hit the target, but he did not expect a shot; he thought it was he who chose the free run of the trigger. It turned out that in the tiger you need to press on the trigger 2,5 kg to fire, but the effort to choose the free wheel is just like a sabatti descent. Well, then we understood why Valera often smears
      1. Dam
        Dam 17 May 2018 22: 38
        +1
        A matter of habit for your weapons. The combat’s free play was slightly less than in the Kalash’s; the launching force was about 1,5 kg. When shooting with a hand 2,5 kg is normal. Now, if you collect piles on paper, then give 700-900 grams
        1. faridg7
          faridg7 18 May 2018 01: 00
          +1
          Of course, you need to get used to it. But the descent force of 2,5 kg is a bust. I have somewhere around 155-700 on the MP -800, and there are even fewer ones on Hatsan (by the way, the descent is regulated there and the free wheeling can be removed completely). Why is it so incomprehensible on hunting weapons
  11. DesToeR
    DesToeR 17 May 2018 12: 48
    +2
    Quote: pishchak
    For so many years, the Vintorez sniper rifle has been manufactured, and factory gunsmiths have not bothered to equip its stock with a regular adjustable “cheek” ?!

    Designers "bothered" to create BCC-M. But why is it a military weapon, if you have to shoot at a distance of 100 ... 200m?
    1. beeper
      beeper 17 May 2018 14: 13
      +1
      Thank you, Comrade DesToeR, for the informative response! good
      Judging by the photo, these "improvers" do not go in simple ways, the whole "idea" of the BCC "Vintorez" was over @ raly ?! request
      In addition, purely "speculative", it seems to me that the mounting rods of the "cheek" in the photo are a bit short, lengthen by 30mm. But the butt with such a retractable butt plate could safely be shortened by 50 millimeters for sure! winked But this is already some kind of sports rifle, for the "field" this is not suitable at all. IMHO
      Why do you need a “cheek” on a sniper rifle with a telescopic sight? For a convenient, unstressed, monotonous aiming (and "expectant" observation of the target), and especially a monotonous "application", you need to use the same optical sight so that you do not "look out" its "optical axis" each time yes
      If we are talking about Vintorez VSS, then its best use was assumed at distances of up to 400 meters, and not 100 ÷ 200!
      hi
      1. Dam
        Dam 17 May 2018 22: 41
        +1
        Well at 400 they are uncomfortable to shoot. Howitzer ballistics will
    2. Sergey ippon
      Sergey ippon 19 May 2018 15: 40
      +1
      No need. Pampering and Ponte.
      only carry excess traction.
      1. beeper
        beeper 19 May 2018 16: 57
        +1
        In such a “sporty version”, also with bipods, of course, show-offs and “extra traction” (and how to wear it for a long time with such “comb”?) wink ! yes
        There, all that was needed was a little "pillow" on the crest of the butt under the cheek "to grind (even with adhesive tape winked ) ", made of polystyrene foam wrapped in adhesive cloth-" waterproof ", and, if possible, rough paint over is just business! yes
        And not to fence a whole garden. A total of 50-70 grams would have weighed (and even less), and the amenities were worth a million! fellow
        Although, this VSS "Vintorez", a very, very "narrowly specific" weapon, was by no means created for that special forces. IMHO.
        PS Answering a question about the difficult and unregulated descent of the Tiger, it’s just that hunters don’t have to hang around buying expensively a guarded military rifle for hunting! yes Indeed, for hunting, in the same price range, you can probably buy a good hunting rifle, so why bother so much ?! Honestly, I absolutely do not understand such hunters, masochists, "militarists" wink !
        SVD was created at the end of the 50s of the last century, this is the time for army requirements, and secondly, I don’t think that the best army units go to @cartition- fencing, or am I mistaken ?!
        hi
  12. Cympak
    Cympak 17 May 2018 14: 47
    +1
    for a citizen - is useless. The only exception is practical shooting enthusiasts.
  13. Nikolay73
    Nikolay73 17 May 2018 15: 07
    +2
    Forgive me my French, but as for me, the whole charm of the screw cutter lies in the fact that the original possesses precisely a combination of characteristics and this makes it valuable for solving the tasks. An inflatable one may have a more ideal breast shape but ... as for TTX, I, as a potential buyer, am not ready to pay the price of a kaen for a model of a kaen with a VAZ transmission and interior. I have a distant idea of ​​hunting weapons, as well as of ammunition ... so IMHO.
  14. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 17 May 2018 20: 13
    0
    Yes, a good thing! And we will continue to use SCS (because of the price), and the price of cartridges is also "God forbid."
    1. tracer
      tracer 18 May 2018 04: 08
      0
      looked at the Valmet store today. This is a copy of the PKK but thoroughly revised by the Finns. 11.700 AMERICAN RUBLES. ...So that..
    2. tracer
      tracer 18 May 2018 04: 11
      0
      With SKS, moose fall perfectly without any problems. True, I use "Hornady" 7.62X39. GOOD CARTRIDGE.
  15. Note 2
    Note 2 18 May 2018 04: 58
    +1
    Is it an advertising article or something? From the same Chechen war there were quite a few complaints about this weapon as regards the frankly weak SP 5 cartridge and SP 6 a little better. There were also a lot of delays when firing at the fault of the weapon itself. Our people in the early 90s loved to say that the design of this weapon is an original and breakthrough development of Russian designers; however, if you look at the device of the perforated barrel with a silencer, it turns out that the British applied a similar design to the Sterling software long before ours!
    1. Foundling
      Foundling 19 May 2018 00: 07
      0
      And the Mitin brothers used to give the British their Bramit. Since then, there has been no fundamental change in silencers. However, this has nothing to do with this product from water pipes.
    2. beeper
      beeper 19 May 2018 17: 14
      +2
      There, the whole "trick", which then, after the war, began to be taken into account in the "perforation" of the trunks, is that all the holes go exactly along the bottom of the rifling, without crossing and not touching the fields ...
      The development is really original, still of the SOVIET weapons designers!
      Namely, like a serial rifle, for arming entire units ... "piece", after all, there were much more abruptly, but in a single copy, and here is the "series" ... fellow
      1. Meshcheryak
        Meshcheryak 19 May 2018 18: 27
        +2
        Vintarrez never was massive, he appeared in the early nineties when they showed him to us at the RGVVDKU!))) Then, over the years, he was already used in the Caucasus, but he was not very helpful in raids, and not massive, apparently they have not done much, the series is said loudly!))))
    3. Meshcheryak
      Meshcheryak 19 May 2018 18: 13
      +1
      Of course advertising! And this product can have nothing in common with the original, as the main chip (perforated) is missing. Even Maxim’s hunting carbine will be closer to the original))) For the SP5 SP6 patricks, I can say that they are designed to be weak, otherwise it will make noise. In general, the original complex is very narrowly specialized and if it is used for its intended purpose, it is really good!