Military Review

Who destroyed Berlin?

67
The popular belief that the German capital was razed to the ground during its assault by Soviet troops is completely untrue.


Who destroyed Berlin?


The well-known military newsreels, in which Soviet soldiers are fighting on Berlin streets among solid ruins, certainly create for many viewers and especially for young people, who, as a rule, are not inclined to delve into the details of old historical events, the impression that the capital of the Third Reich turned into a heap of smoking debris precisely as a result of the merciless Soviet assault.

In addition, Western propaganda unevenly breathing to modern Russia picks up this topic with pleasure. You don’t feed you with bread, let me just talk about "Russians who know no pity" who are not expensive in the world and whose barbarous nature can never be understood by a finely organized and delicately educated Westerner.

In fact, everything is not quite so, or rather, not at all. Without in any way detracting from the scale and brutality of the fighting during the Berlin operation, I consider it necessary to draw your attention to some important details.

The German capital capitulated very quickly for a city of this size and value. There are two main reasons for this: a truly uncontrollable victorious impulse of our army and the complete loss of will to resist on the part of the Germans, who realized by April 1945 of the inevitability of their complete defeat in the war.

Although the operation itself took place from April 16 to 8 May 1945, the battles within the city itself continued much less. Actually - from April 21 to May 2, when the Berlin garrison capitulated. That is about a week and a half.

In such a short time, the almighty Red Army could not have destroyed such a huge city to the ground. If I wanted to. Moreover, the battles in the city blocks had the specifics that there were practically no front lines as such. The troops, both their own and the enemy, were mixed to such an extent that sometimes in the same house there were positions of both German and Soviet units. In such circumstances, the Soviet command was forced to sharply limit the combat use of urban bombing facilities aviation and heavy artillery, which could lead to serious losses of their own troops. And this, in turn, further reduced the material damage that Berlin suffered during the Soviet offensive.

And, nevertheless, the city was almost completely destroyed. How can this apparent paradox be explained? Any Berliner of that time would have explained him without the slightest labor. Because the destruction of the capital of the Third Reich took place in his eyes for a number of years and the Soviet assault played a far from central role in this.

The main reason for the actual death of Berlin became the so-called "carpet bombing", conducted by the Anglo-American aircraft throughout the war. For those who do not know, I will explain: this expression has nothing to do with knocking out carpets. But to get rid of the life of entire cities along with their entire population - the most direct.

The military-political leadership of Great Britain, a country whose territory was minimally hit by enemy strikes, and the US government, a country to whose territory, not counting Pearl Harbor, not a single enemy shell had flown at all, for some reason decided that in a war with Hitler, all means are good. Even the most barbaric. And they began to systematically burn down the German cities, making no difference between military factories and residential quarters, hospitals, schools, maternity hospitals.

The Soviet Union, which suffered monstrous losses from German aggression and who had the full moral right to repay the Germans with the same coin, did not accept such atrocities against German cities and people. And the Anglo-Saxons have gone! And with amazing ease. What, generally speaking, says a lot. Including the fact that they are still unlikely to stop at any crime to achieve their goals. As for Berlin in particular, its methodological transformation into rubble started already in 1943 year.

“This year Berlin underwent terrible changes: the Tiergarten district was completely destroyed, the ruins of Charlottenburg castle, Unter den Linden avenue, the Kurfürstendamm memorial church ... Copernicus and Treptow quarters. The city’s transport network was badly damaged. ”


However, the truly total destruction of Berlin from the air began only in 1945 year. When, after the Yalta conference of the Allies, it became finally clear that the German capital would be included in the Soviet zone of occupation. It was then that the order was issued on the complete destruction of the Anglo-American aircraft not only in Berlin, but in general all German cities that were to come under the control of the Soviet Union. It was then, in February 1945, that the city of Dresden was almost wiped out, in which about two hundred thousand people died in one day. Mostly civilians, refugees and allied prisoners of war.

The most immoral and criminal lies in the fact that the bombing of the first months of 1945 had no military significance. Hitler's Germany was on the verge of gasping. And the destruction of its cities from a military point of view was absolutely meaningless. It was a blatant massacre, the only rational purpose of which was to inflict maximum harm from the United States and Great Britain to its formal Soviet ally, who should have only ruins. And only the rapid advance of the Red Army and the soon-to-come end of the war saved the rest of East Germany from complete annihilation from the air.

But in Berlin, our "valiant" allies managed to bomb the full program.

“Everything that happened before, faded 3 February 1945, when, under the cover of 785 fighter P-51" Mustang "over Berlin appeared 950" flying fortresses. " The aerial armada dumped tons of bombs on 2298 urban areas, plowing Tempelhof and Schöneberg districts, as well as the city center. According to “average” estimates, the number of victims among the population on this day was thousands. They call numbers up to 25 000 killed.
26 February 1945 horror repeated on an even larger scale - 781 B-17 and 285 B-24 dropped 2796 tons of bombs on the city, with virtually no losses on their part. Of course, this was not the end: practicing new tactics, March 18, March 24, April 20, the Americans repeated the raids over and over again, in which they participated before the 1200 bombers at a time. The city beneath them turned into ruins, and the exact number of the dead was not possible to establish. By approximate calculations, it was about 50 000 people. "


That is why, when the Soviet troops came close to the German capital, they saw in front of them a “city of former houses,” as the surviving inhabitants joked bitterly at that time. And although the storming of the city, of course, did not add beauty and architectural brilliance to it, the historical truth is that the destruction of Berlin was mainly the work of Anglo-American bomber aircraft, and not the Red Army. Moreover, this destruction at its main stage, in February-March 1945, had not so much anti-German sense as anti-Soviet. The "allies" thus avenged Stalin for the fact that his army first reached Berlin and liberated half of Europe.

It only remains to recall that the Anglo-Saxons did this kind of nastiness to us at that moment when relations between the USSR and its western "partners", at least officially, were at the highest ally level, when nothing seemed to be able to darken them in the future. Now imagine what these geopolitical predators are capable of with respect to Russia today, when even in official speeches they assess their relations with it as “worse than ever.”
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  1. Vard
    Vard 9 May 2018 05: 40
    +10
    Even then, the Angles used to bomb civilian objects ... This habit remained with them now ...
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 9 May 2018 06: 39
      +5
      I didn’t know about Berlin, now about the mass rape of Germans, too, the media went out that they were Americans. But as you see, these revelations do not affect Germany’s allied / subordinate position in America. Those. in the leadership of the same Germany are some people who do not care about Germany itself.
      The same can be said about Japan.
      1. APIS
        APIS 9 May 2018 09: 36
        +2
        Quote: Bar1
        I didn’t know about Berlin, now about the mass rape of Germans, too, the media went out that they were Americans. But as you see, these revelations do not affect Germany’s allied / subordinate position in America. Those. in the leadership of the same Germany are some people who do not care about Germany itself.
        The same can be said about Japan.

        With regard to the rape of Germans, the story is very simple: at first, the Führer issues an order that no German woman can refuse a soldier, lack of contraception, defeat in the war and the prospect of being a single mother before the Frauilles. German doctors did abortions for free only to victims of violence, and even that wasn’t all.
        Already in our time, we took the statistics of a Berlin hospital and, based on the calculation, the number of residents / the number of "raped" brought the average percentage for the Reich. True ofigeli so much that they included in the calculation of all females from 8 to 80 years old, as Dr. Goebbels bequeathed.
        1. MrK
          MrK 9 May 2018 12: 02
          +11
          Quote: APIS
          Already in our time, we took the statistics of a Berlin hospital

          I agree. I want to note that rape by a Wehrmacht soldier by a Soviet woman / girl / girl, by the way, was not originally considered a crime. AT ALL. It’s like to use a cow or a goat for intimate purposes. Remember this.

          But do the authors know who was the first to launch the story of the Russian barbaric rapists to the masses? Do not know? Forced to disappoint them: "the author of the idea," as they say in the film industry, is personally maestro Joseph Goebbels.
          Let me quote his imperishable lines from the Hitlerite officialdom “Felkisher beobachter” (“People’s Observer”) for the 2 of March 1945 of the year: “In the face of Soviet soldiers we are dealing with steppe scum. This is confirmed by the information about atrocities that came to us from the eastern regions. They really are terrifying. They cannot even be reproduced separately. First of all, mention should be made of the terrible documents that came from Upper Silesia. In individual villages and cities, all women from 10 to 70 years have suffered countless rape. This is done by order from above., since the behavior of the Soviet soldier can be seen as an explicit system ”[Goebbels J. Recent notes. - Smolensk: Rusich, 1998].
          By the way. Historians know the exact number of Soviet military personnel punished for their cruel treatment of civilians (including rape): 4148 military personnel. [Kurlandchik Alexander. "CURSED" SOVIET AUTHORITY AND REFORMS IN RUSSIA. http://www.proza.ru/avtor/apk1953
          1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 9 May 2018 18: 11
            +11
            Quote: mrark
            I want to note that rape by a Wehrmacht soldier by a Soviet woman / girl / girl, by the way, was not originally considered a crime. AT ALL.

            You will laugh, but in the armies of the USA and England it was the same. As a matter of fact, the Red Army is the only army where execution was carried out for such actions. And after all, which is characteristic, they shot.
            Bottom line - if you wish, you will find documents that the Soviet soldiers raped (sentences remained), but there is no documentary evidence of violence by the British and Americans in nature - simply because no one bothered to document such cases.
            What for? After all, these are just Germans.
            1. nov_tech.vrn
              nov_tech.vrn 11 June 2018 09: 55
              0
              double standards of Western mentality were not invented today, at the beginning of the 20th century you could admire an African family at the zoo, and in the 60s, Americans bombed a bridge in Vietnam, one of the world-famous masterpieces of Gustave Eiffel
          2. Amurets
            Amurets 9 May 2018 23: 15
            +3
            Quote: mrark
            But do the authors know who was the first to launch the story of the Russian barbaric rapists to the masses? Do not know? Forced to disappoint them: "the author of the idea," as they say in the film industry, is personally maestro Joseph Goebbels.
            Well, this "lapid monkey" itself was a lover of "going left": "The Goebbels family was a symbol of renewed German society and an example for newlyweds. However, all this did not prevent the propaganda minister from having many lovers ... Many movie stars and movie stars paved their way success through the bedroom of the propaganda minister. However, the Goebbels little pranks didn’t bother anyone. The Führer looked at the series of short-term love adventures of the Reichsminister through the fingers, Magda was also not too worried about her husband’s chronic infidelity, reasoning that he was from the family anyway not going anywhere. " So whoever hurts, that is what he is talking about. In this case, Joseph Goebbels.
        2. Bar1
          Bar1 9 May 2018 13: 26
          +1
          Quote: APIS
          first, the Führer issues an order that no German woman can refuse a soldier, the absence of contraception,


          it is unlikely in Germany, as elsewhere - the family unit of society.
      2. Grandfather Talash
        Grandfather Talash 9 May 2018 20: 01
        +8
        The myth of the wear and tear of thousands of Germans by Soviet soldiers is so naive that I calmly answer their carriers that if it were, then the percentage of beautiful Germans would be higher ..)))
      3. your1970
        your1970 18 June 2018 14: 01
        0
        In fairness, it should be noted that the USSR was missing:
        1) the military expediency of the bombing of Berlin (this was conscientiously done by the Allies in Of their goals
        2) economic - most of the city (at least) obviously had to move to the USSR,
        3) technical and strategic aviation was in its infancy compared to the USA / England, when the radius of action became enough - Berlin was ALREADY in ruins
    2. iouris
      iouris 9 May 2018 12: 48
      0
      This was the beginning of the "hybrid war": there was no television, but visibility was provided.
  2. Terenin
    Terenin 9 May 2018 05: 59
    +19
    Who destroyed Berlin? It would be more correct to write what caused the destruction of Berlin. The answer is fascism!
    And so after our destroyed cities I confirm what has already been written.
    1. svp67
      svp67 9 May 2018 06: 39
      +12
      Quote: Terenin
      Who destroyed Berlin

      Who! The answer is simple:

      There are two main reasons for this: the truly irresistible victory impulse of our army and the complete loss of will to resist on the part of the Germans, who realized by April 1945 the inevitability of their complete defeat in the war.
      "Losing the will to resist," no. The Germans and their minions fought fiercely, but there were no real forces. One part of them was defeated in Pomerania, the main part on the Zeelovskys and some were unable to break through from Dresden ... Nevertheless, the KA was able to fight in May 1945 and its generals and marshals understood that it was better, faster and better to defeat the enemy in the field than letting him into the city.
      However, the truly total destruction of Berlin from the air began only in 1945.
      Our grandfathers and great-grandfathers, of course, did not hesitate to use air strikes, artillery and tanks in Berlin, but excuse me, not only did this “erase” Berlin. Just look at the photo ...
      Hamburg

      Dresden

      Cologne

      Mainz

      Munich

      Lubeck

      It is clearly seen that these cities are not so much destroyed by explosions as they were burned, and this is a favorite tactic of the Luftwaffe and the British and American Air Force that have adopted it from them
      1. Terenin
        Terenin 9 May 2018 06: 48
        +10
        Quote: svp67
        Who! The answer is simple:

        Greetings, Sergey hi And these are all scum, nothing to do with it?
        1. svp67
          svp67 9 May 2018 07: 13
          +12
          Quote: Terenin
          And these are all scum, nothing to do with it?

          The question is not simple. For me, JV Stalin answered best of all: "Hitlers come and go, but the German people will remain ...". And of course there are many "and" there ... and they paid a lot for it.
          But I do not understand simply the "cannibalistic" inclinations of the Anglo-Saxons. They destroyed not just an armed enemy, they destroyed the PEOPLE, both physically and mentally, and they are no better than the Nazis
          1. ufpb
            ufpb 10 May 2018 22: 14
            +1
            And precisely such tactics were used against Japan.
          2. Looking for
            Looking for 10 May 2018 23: 39
            -1
            They avenged the bombing of London, Coventry and other cities in the UK. But the cynicism is that their losses were scanty compared to the German.
            1. lukewarm
              lukewarm 30 May 2018 14: 34
              0
              The Soviet Socialist Republic was much more right to avenge. But that's not the point. The Germans bombed the British (the road is there), and Berlin was mostly leveled by the Americans. But in general, both of them raised Hitler and set him against our country.
      2. Bar1
        Bar1 9 May 2018 07: 45
        +2
        Quote: svp67
        svp67 (Sergey) Today, 06: 39 ↑
        Quote: Terenin
        Who destroyed Berlin
        Who! The answer is simple:


        hitler destroyed Berlin? Then Roosevelt destroyed Pearl Harbor, and Stalin destroyed Stalingrad. Why say nonsense?
        1. Tomato
          Tomato 9 May 2018 08: 44
          +9
          Verily, there is no limit to human stupidity.
          If you look at the documents, it is easy to find out the fact: the Soviet command often asked the Americans about the bombing of certain targets, even gave additional goals.
          After 70 years, some imbeciles come out - AAAAA, critters, hated Americans, they bombed German cities, they killed the valiant Wehrmacht soldiers !!! Do not forget, do not forgive !!!
          And why did we stop bombing Berlin at 41? Yes, not because they lost airfields in the Baltic, simply for humane reasons. Pravda published a photo of the destroyed houses in Germany, the Soviet people sobbed. Eyewitnesses say they first saw Stalin crying.
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 9 May 2018 09: 17
            +4
            Quote: Tomatoes
            After 70 years, some imbeciles come out - AAAAA, critters, hated Americans, they bombed German cities, they killed the valiant Wehrmacht soldiers !!! Do not forget, do not forgive !!!


            not quite so, demolishing cities to zero and destroying civilians is not in the traditions of our people. To destroy an enemy army and industry producing military equipment in a war. For example, the GDR army was the most faithful and most ABLE in the Warsaw Pact. And where is this army now? And now it’s an enemy army, it has become a NATO army. So the thing is to process the population i.e. in ideology.

            Quote: Tomatoes
            And why did we stop bombing Berlin at 41? Yes, not because they lost airfields in the Baltic, simply for humane reasons. "


            everything is correct, but our raids on Berlin were of a different scale — it was an act of intimidation, such as getting a slap in the face, you can change your mind. But pin_day and the Germans demolished the cities completely, take our Stalingrad. But there is always one big thing, but to destroy civilians is to be likened to this west itself, it’s alien to us, we Russians don’t do that, we are disgusted by such behavior.
          2. svp67
            svp67 9 May 2018 15: 08
            +8
            Quote: Tomatoes
            After 70 years, some kind of imbeciles come out - AAAAA

            So get in there from where you got out and don't show up
          3. ufpb
            ufpb 10 May 2018 22: 18
            +2
            They asked - to bomb the railway bridges in the Hamburg area, but not the entire center of Hamburg. And where has it been seen that reinforced concrete bridge structures are bombarded with incendiary bombs?
          4. Vlad.by
            Vlad.by 11 June 2018 01: 56
            0
            Well, then the airfields appeared. And not only in the Baltic! However, Soviet aircraft did not practice carpet bombing of residential areas. Factories - yes, airfields - yes, some bridges. But not residential buildings. Although, sometimes, it came to them, no doubt. But they never were objects of bombing. Even in the 41st. Bombed factories.
        2. svp67
          svp67 9 May 2018 15: 07
          +7
          Quote: Bar1
          Why talk nonsense?

          But really, why are you telling them?
          Do you think that people with authority do not bear any responsibility for what is happening with the country and people entrusted to them?
          By the way, the same Roosevelt was well aware of the impending attack on Pearl Harbor, but he needed to circumvent the veto of the congress, where he was not popular and omnipotent, it required Japan to attack the United States. Did he assume that there would be such victims - I do not know. But the fact that he did everything was consciously certain.
          Accordingly, Stalin is responsible for the destruction of Stalingrad. There were too many mistakes and wrongful decisions made.
          By the way, Stalin understood this very well that this “toast” was worth it:
          “Comrades, let me raise another, last toast.
          I would like to raise a toast to the health of our Soviet people and, above all, the Russian people.

          I drink, above all, for the health of the Russian people because it is the most prominent nation of all the nations that make up the Soviet Union.
          I am making a toast to the health of the Russian people because he deserved general recognition in this war as the leading force of the Soviet Union among all the peoples of our country.

          I raise a toast to the health of the Russian people, not only because they are the leading people, but also because they have a clear mind, a strong character, and patience.

          Our Government had many mistakes, We had moments of desperate situation in 1941-42, when our army was retreating, leaving our native villages and cities of Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, the Leningrad Region, the Baltic States, the Karelian-Finnish Republic, leaving because there was no other way out.

          Other people could say to the Government: you did not live up to our expectations, go away, we will put another Government, which will conclude peace with Germany and provide us with peace.

          But the Russian people did not go for it, for they believed in the correctness of the policy of their Government and made sacrifices to ensure the defeat of Germany. And this confidence of the Russian people in the Soviet Government turned out to be the decisive force that ensured a historic victory over the enemy of mankind - over fascism.

          Thanks to him, the Russian people, for this trust!

          For the health of the Russian people! ”
          1. Tomato
            Tomato 9 May 2018 15: 49
            +9
            For your peers in intelligence, I specially write in monosyllabic sentences:
            The Soviet command coordinated the objects of strikes with the allies.
            The Soviet command added additional objects to the list of targets.
            Often we ourselves asked for additional bombing. Especially with the offensive or counter-offensive of the Germans.
            Throughout the war, the Soviet command has never made a protest, concern or request to stop the bombing of Germany.
            By the way, today and at the official (government) level, no one makes such reproaches. This is a personal initiative of some mentally underdeveloped degenerates.
            ------------------------
            Actually, I even thought about this. There was a total war. Where everyone contributed. The destroyed German city is minus several enterprises, workers, draftees in the army or Volksturm. These are the destroyed material and human resources of the enemy. So, the lives of the lives of my compatriots have been saved. And what kind of Russophobic carrion and scum must be to condemn the salvation of thousands of Russian people.
            1. svp67
              svp67 9 May 2018 16: 18
              +10
              Quote: Tomatoes
              ... specifically writing in monosyllabic sentences:

              Write in monosyllables ... yeah, that's all you can do. Little
              Quote: Tomatoes
              The Soviet command coordinated the objects of strikes with the allies.
              The Soviet command added additional objects to the list of targets.

              This is NORMAL practice, so the allies also asked us to strike in certain places. This is called INTERACTION. Have you heard such a word? Do you understand its meaning? But your "deep" intelligence is simply not enough to understand that any task can be performed in different ways. Since it was carried out, in this case the allies are barbarism.
              Quote: Tomatoes
              There was a total war. Where everyone contributed. The destroyed German city is minus several enterprises, workers, draftees in the army or Volksturm. These are the destroyed material and human resources of the enemy. So, the lives of the lives of my compatriots have been saved.

              One must not know at all the history of TOYA WAR, what would it be to write ... German enterprises were withdrawn from large cities and hidden, in particular in the mountains. Draftees in the army had already been taken, and after such raids, those who wanted to go to the Volkssturm only increased.
              Quote: Tomatoes
              And what kind of Russophobic carrion and scum must be to condemn the salvation of thousands of Russian people.

              Mr. choose good expressions, otherwise you can regret it, this is my good advice to you
              1. Tomato
                Tomato 9 May 2018 20: 15
                +5
                I will give you good advice too. Raise your level of erudition to at least grade 4 before engaging in polemics.
                In fact:
                1. Since the beginning of 1944, aircraft factories have become the main target of air raids. In February 1944, 50% of the aircraft factories were subjected to air attacks within a few days.
                2. At the end of April 1944, Anglo-American aviation began bombing power plants and factories for the production of synthetic gasoline, ammonia and synthetic rubber.
                3. Also carried out systematic air raids on transport infrastructure. In the last 10 months of the war (July 1944 - April 1945), almost half of the weight of bombs on Germany with its annexed, occupied and allied countries was dropped on transport infrastructure and oil and fuel industry enterprises
                4. Attacks on oil wells, refineries and oil depots were very successful, and made a great contribution to the overall collapse of the German economy at the end of the war.
                5. According to Speer, technically, Germany was defeated on May 12, 1944, when, thanks to the massive bombing of the Allies, 90% of the plants producing synthetic fuel were destroyed.
                6. As we see, 11.5 million German workers were called up to the Wehrmacht from September 39 to September 44; they were replaced by 7 million workers and prisoners of war who arrived or drove from abroad, as well as 1 million new German workers. In total, this gives a loss of 3.5 million workers, or 10% of the workforce.
                ----------------------------
                How many Russians would have been killed if not for these bombings.
                I choose expressions. Only animals wish death to thousands of my compatriots. Or do you think as Kadyrov Sr., the more the better?
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 9 May 2018 20: 18
                  +1
                  Quote: Tomatoes
                  Tomato

                  Have you come up with your one-six points? Hardly?
                  So a link to them click already... scrabble negative
                  Quote: Tomatoes
                  If you look at the documents

                  That's it ... Pts I wonder what kind of "documents" you looked there yes
                  1. Tomato
                    Tomato 9 May 2018 20: 24
                    +2
                    https://wikivisually.com/lang-ru/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%8
                    2%D1%80%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5
                    %D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1
                    %D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BA%
                    D0%B8_%D0%B2%D0%BE_%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%8F
                    _%D0%92%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%BC%D0%B
                    8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9_%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B
                    9%D0%BD%D1%8B#%D0%A1%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%8
                    1%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D1%81%D0%BE%D1%8E%D0%B
                    7%D0%BD%D1%8B%D1%85_%D0%B1%D0%BE%D0%BC%D0%B1%D0%B
                    0%D1%80%D0%B4%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%BA
                    _% D0% B2_1939-45 catch.
                    I foresee a reaction. Advance - on this subject materials to ........ and more. Not surprisingly, the numbers are not particularly different.
                    Well, if doubts remain, you can read yourself: Albert Speer. "Memories."
                    In order not to bother your intellect, I will even give you 1 paragraph in total:
                    "After sixteen days of feverish recovery, we only
                    that they reached the previous level of fuel production when May 28-29, 1944
                    a second wave of bombing rained down on us. This time only 400
                    8th American Air Fleet bomber managed to inflict us
                    even more serious destruction than almost twice as much armada at the first
                    plaque ...... "
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack 9 May 2018 20: 39
                      +9
                      Soooo ...
                      Well, the article "Strategic bombardments during the Second World War" you overtook here almost literally. Praise yes
                      It’s hard for me personally to vouch for the quality of this material (it’s not ... everything is written smoothly and a very beautiful picture develops) for one reason only: the only "document" that this article refers to is ... Speer. He wrote his Memoirs on a tour in West Berlin.
                      I would be surprised if there were conclusions in this book that were at least somehow inconvenient for the allies (England and the USA, if you did not understand).
                      That's about as request
                      1. Tomato
                        Tomato 9 May 2018 22: 02
                        +2
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Well, the article "Strategic bombardments during the Second World War" you overtook here almost literally. Praise

                        What did Chubais write? By order of the State Department ??
                        Tell me, are other polemical tricks available?
                2. svp67
                  svp67 10 May 2018 03: 49
                  +4
                  Quote: Tomatoes
                  I choose expressions.

                  Well already better ...
                  And now you answer me, how are all your points connected with the destruction of the same Dresden, where there simply wasn’t any industry listed by you and the city itself actually represented a huge hospital and refugee collection point? Not only that, he retreated to the "Soviet zone" and had to fall.
                  Quote: Tomatoes
                  Or do you think as Kadyrov Sr., the more the better?

                  What are you talking about? Is everything normal with the logic? The older, the better, they’re talking about cognac. And where does Kadyrov? And not Bulk for example. Although this will not help anything ...
                  1. Ruslan67
                    Ruslan67 10 May 2018 04: 16
                    +5
                    Quote: svp67
                    How are you connected with the destruction of the same Dresden, where you simply didn’t have the industry listed and the city itself actually represented a huge hospital and refugee collection point? Not only that, he retreated to the "Soviet zone" and had to fall.

                    Colleagues hi Dresden was, in its purest form, the answer for Coventry. Both barbarism has no excuses.
        3. Weyland
          Weyland 9 May 2018 17: 48
          +4
          Quote: Bar1
          hitler destroyed Berlin? Then Roosevelt destroyed Pearl Harbor, and Stalin destroyed Stalingrad.

          Did I miss something? This is the USSR without declaring war attacked the Reich, and the USA - on Japan? wassat stop
  3. Basil50
    Basil50 9 May 2018 05: 59
    +5
    The Americans worked out the technology to create their own satellites. In some countries, this was successful, in some places it did not work out. Just change the method * of persuasion * in the United States. They will only increase lethal force and there may be accuracy.
    It is significant that both in Germany and Japan they are not afraid of Americans, they sincerely love them.
  4. Amurets
    Amurets 9 May 2018 06: 11
    +12
    It only remains to recall that the Anglo-Saxons did this kind of nastiness to us at that moment when relations between the USSR and its western "partners", at least officially, were at the highest ally level, when nothing seemed to be able to darken them in the future. Now imagine what these geopolitical predators are capable of with respect to Russia today, when even in official speeches they assess their relations with it as “worse than ever.”
    Berlin; Hamburg Dresden Lubeck; the Anglo-Saxons destroyed, it’s right, but the Germans didn’t start first, they showed an example: “During the Spanish Civil War on April 26, 1937, the Condor legion, a Luftwaffe volunteer unit, raided Guernica. in three hours several thousand bombs were dropped; as a result, the six thousandth city was destroyed, about two thousand inhabitants were under rubble. After the raid Guernica burned for another three days. " Then there was Coventry in the UK in 1940, and here you can disagree with the author. After all, the Germans were the first to start, and what happened then was a retaliatory strike, a cruel, strong, vengeful one. I do not condone either one or the other, because it was air terror and an ass to scare the population. In one thing I agree with the author, the Russians did not destroy Berlin, the Anglo-Saxons destroyed it.
    1. svp67
      svp67 9 May 2018 07: 26
      +9
      Quote: Amurets
      Anglo-Saxons destroyed, that's right, but the Germans didn’t start first, they showed an example:

      It’s true, but it’s also true that the concentration camps were not invented by the Germans, but by the British ... So that they stand friend to friend
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 9 May 2018 10: 52
        +4
        Quote: svp67
        It’s true, but it’s also true that the concentration camps were not invented by the Germans, but by the British ... So that they stand friend to friend

        In the Boer War. 1000% to the point.
      2. Weyland
        Weyland 9 May 2018 17: 54
        +1
        Quote: svp67
        the concentration camps were invented not by the Germans, but by the British

        And what is the difference between them, by and large? Magdeburg is the main city of Sachsen-Anhalt (Saxonhe and I-Angalbm) - it was from her that the Saxons and the Angles went!
  5. igordok
    igordok 9 May 2018 06: 43
    +4
    ... the US government, a country to whose territory, not counting Pearl Harbor, ...

    I will correct it. Hawaii became 50 the state of America only in August 1959. At the time of the war, Hawaii was a US colony.
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 9 May 2018 20: 53
      0
      Quote: igordok
      At the time of the war, Hawaii was a US colony.

      So is Alaska.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 14 May 2018 11: 29
        0
        Alaska and Hawaii were not colonies, but incorporated US "territories" during the war. There were many “incorporated” territories in the 19th century, then they were converted into states. Incorporated organized territories were considered part of the United States, their inhabitants were US citizens, but these territories did not have state rights, although they had limited self-government. They were represented in the House of Representatives by delegates with an advisory voice, but their representatives were completely absent in the Senate. All of them eventually became states. Now there are no more incorporated organized territories. But there are incorporated unorganized territories, unincorporated organized territories (the largest Puerto Rico) and unincorporated unorganized territories.
  6. zulusuluz
    zulusuluz 9 May 2018 06: 59
    +2
    It’s not for nothing that they (the Anglo-Saxons) collaborated throughout the war with fascism - the raven will not poke a crow out of their eyes ...
  7. Severok
    Severok 9 May 2018 07: 15
    +4
    And our rulers dare to call these geeks "partners"? A strange conclusion suggests itself, comrades, if both Vova and Dima are partners for sworn murderers and historical enemies of Russia, then what are they doing in the power of Russia ???
    1. Alf
      Alf 9 May 2018 10: 16
      +4
      Quote: Severok
      what do they do in the power of Russia ???

      So they are the only ones, for "who, if not Putin"?
  8. aleks.29ru
    aleks.29ru 9 May 2018 09: 41
    +7
    The author would regret hundreds of our cities and thousands of villages destroyed and burned by 98-100 percent. They come to destroy, and our humanists are ready to put thousands in order to save some kind of Krakow. How is the world heritage. It's time for our people to present the Darwin Prize.
  9. cedar
    cedar 9 May 2018 12: 12
    0
    There is nothing to be surprised and expect another from them, especially after Hiroshima and Nagasaki ...
  10. Normal ok
    Normal ok 9 May 2018 12: 14
    +10
    Your articles are much more propaganda than logic. And this is understandable, given your special education. But, a somewhat unbiased reader immediately sees the contradictions in your own words.
    In the beginning, you write that one of the components of the rapid surrender of the garrison of Berlin was demoralization:
    The German capital capitulated very fast for a city of this size and of such significance. There are two main reasons for this: a truly unstoppable victory rush of our army and complete loss of will to resist from the Germans

    But, because of what did the garrison of Berlin “lose the will to resist”, if not because of the total bombing that practically destroyed many areas of the city? This is a classic of war, before an attack by ground troops, the enemy is ironed by aircraft and artillery. The USSR did not have so much heavy bomber aircraft to hit the fortified area of ​​Berlin in such a way. It is a fortified area and not just a city. And it is entirely possible that Stalin agreed with the Allies that they would do it. This is quite in the spirit of Stalin. Two birds with one stone are being killed: the operational issue plus propaganda is being resolved - the Germans are angry at the USA and the Britons. You say that the Germans lost their will because of the understanding of the inevitability of defeat? Nothing like this. At the Zeelovsky Heights, they fought fiercely. And many German units continued the database after the fall of Berlin!
    In other words, the allied bombing of the Berlin UR made it easier for the Red Army to take the city.
    The real culprit in the destruction of German cities is Nazi ideology.
    1. Sobol
      Sobol 9 May 2018 12: 33
      +5
      Quote: Normal ok
      Your articles are much more propaganda than logic. And this is understandable, given your special education. But, a somewhat unbiased reader immediately sees the contradictions in your own words.
      In the beginning, you write that one of the components of the rapid surrender of the garrison of Berlin was demoralization:
      The German capital capitulated very fast for a city of this size and of such significance. There are two main reasons for this: a truly unstoppable victory rush of our army and complete loss of will to resist from the Germans

      But, because of what did the garrison of Berlin “lose the will to resist”, if not because of the total bombing that practically destroyed many areas of the city? This is a classic of war, before an attack by ground troops, the enemy is ironed by aircraft and artillery. The USSR did not have so much heavy bomber aircraft to hit the fortified area of ​​Berlin in such a way. It is a fortified area and not just a city. And it is entirely possible that Stalin agreed with the Allies that they would do it. This is quite in the spirit of Stalin. Two birds with one stone are being killed: the operational issue plus propaganda is being resolved - the Germans are angry at the USA and the Britons. You say that the Germans lost their will because of the understanding of the inevitability of defeat? Nothing like this. At the Zeelovsky Heights, they fought fiercely. And many German units continued the database after the fall of Berlin!
      In other words, the allied bombing of the Berlin UR made it easier for the Red Army to take the city.
      The real culprit in the destruction of German cities is Nazi ideology.

      Well, okay. Stalin is to blame. But Dresden and Hamburg, too, Stalin asked to burn? What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?
      1. Normal ok
        Normal ok 9 May 2018 17: 12
        +4
        Quote: SoboL
        Well, okay. Stalin is to blame. But Dresden and Hamburg, too, Stalin asked to burn? What about Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

        Along the way, you don’t understand anything lol From all that was written, you could master only the word Stalin.
        1. Sobol
          Sobol 9 May 2018 21: 30
          +4
          Quote: Normal ok

          Along the way, you don’t understand anything lol From all that was written, you could master only the word Stalin.

          Well, where can I understand your logic tricky. The allies of the soles on the shoes are erasing something to take Berlin ahead of Our troops and right there, with the blows of their aircraft, make it easier for us to break through the German defense. Do not find contradictions in your "version"? fool
  11. nnz226
    nnz226 9 May 2018 13: 14
    +6
    In fairness, the city had to be torn down to the ground (everything above 5 cm from the ground was blown up), residents in Siberia (would have Russified for 2 generations), and the place was sprinkled with salt so that nothing would grow for twenty years ... But the Russians are humane ...
  12. Curious
    Curious 9 May 2018 13: 37
    +20
    In the epigraph to the novel about the journalists of the American writer Robert Sylvester, there is the expression "Newspaper business - a profession as old as ... in a word, this is the second oldest profession."
    Gospod9din Selivanov brilliantly confirmed the correctness of "Anglo-Saxon" with his article.
    The assault on Berlin cost the Soviet people 361367 people killed and wounded (irretrievable losses - 81 thousand). And the average daily losses (15712 people) were even higher than during the Battle of Stalingrad or Kursk. The Nazi resistance during the Berlin operation was, in the full sense of the word, desperate.
    And on May 9, on the day of the Great Victory, a certain Selivanov, instead of marking this holiday with an article about the heroism of the Soviet soldier who broke the ridge of fascism in his den, gives out some kind of slurred bleating about some Angles and Saxons and their machinations.
    In Berlin, of the 1939 buildings available in 1, 502 remained relatively intact by the end of the war. However, despite the horror of carpet bombing, they did not break the spirit of the city’s defenders, but they coped well with the task of embittering both the military and civilians . And all this was overcome by the Soviet soldier - the winner, whose monument in Treptow Park still stands today. That’s what you need to write about, and not just about the Angles and Saxons at least on such a day.
  13. Doliva63
    Doliva63 9 May 2018 17: 36
    +7
    Here we scold the capitalist allies. And why did they themselves join the capitalists?
  14. Doliva63
    Doliva63 9 May 2018 17: 53
    +7
    Who destroyed Berlin?
    Nazism and the capitalist countries that generated it.
  15. 1970mk
    1970mk 9 May 2018 19: 42
    +3
    Well, the Allies correctly bombed the capital of Germany! The spirit of the defenders was undermined even before the approach of the Soviet troops. Does the author want to say that the capital of Nazi Germany did not have to be bombed? And then what? Everything was correct. And the will to resist was suppressed. And thousands of lives of our soldiers stormed Berlin have been saved.
  16. mar4047083
    mar4047083 9 May 2018 20: 11
    +5
    A very strange article on Victory Day. And why then did everyone condemn Kolya (he said the same thing)? Did the unfortunate Germans not want war then? And do not forget the president’s words that we don’t need a world where Russia is not. According to the logic of the author, these are the words of the cannibal.
  17. Altona
    Altona 9 May 2018 20: 38
    +2
    Quote: svp67
    It is clearly seen that these cities are not so much destroyed by explosions as they were burned, and this is a favorite tactic of the Luftwaffe and the British and American Air Force that have adopted it from them

    -------------------------------
    The actual method of destroying cities was developed by the British for the Royal Air Force. To this end, a kind of expert council was produced, where the heads of the fire service were invited. It turned out how to set fire to city blocks in order to complicate the actions of the police, doctors and firefighters as much as possible. How to bomb in order to cause maximum fires in buildings, blocking streets, destroying urban infrastructure. What cascades should a fire and destruction occur. A "carousel" tactic was developed when bombers went on bombing with echelons and dive at objects by organized groups.
  18. Golovan Jack
    Golovan Jack 9 May 2018 22: 10
    +1
    Quote: Tomatoes
    Quote: Golovan Jack
    Well, the article "Strategic bombardments during the Second World War" you overtook here almost literally. Praise

    What did Chubais write? By order of the State Department ??

    No. I wrote who wrote and where. And what does the article refer to. Really incomprehensibly wrote? belay
    Quote: Tomatoes
    Do you have other polemical techniques?

    Yes, far to climb. And while I don’t see the need. And so - MTS, damn it, Jeans ... there is everything laughing
  19. Moskovit
    Moskovit 10 May 2018 00: 31
    +6
    I read various memoirs, and judging by them, the bombing of Germany by the Allies caused a feeling of deep satisfaction among the Soviet people. The Germans did not reap a storm, but a hurricane. In addition, many German aces were killed in the fight against bombers, which reduced the load on our aircraft.
    A relative of one of my wives survived the bombing of Stalingrad. After her stories, the Germans do not mind.
    In Germany, by the way, they remember who bombed them, but the Germans perceive this as retribution and do not try to call the Anglo-Americans to justice.
  20. ser6119
    ser6119 10 May 2018 04: 19
    +2
    Yeah, like they’ll die in the case of a nuclear bombing, 70 million, it’s horror, but how is normal with us.
  21. parma
    parma 10 May 2018 07: 20
    +1
    Um ... The author, where did you draw your conclusions? There was no revenge or “anti-Soviet” attack on these bombings ... By May 1945, the occupation zones were clearly defined a long time ago .. As for the alleged accusations of the USSR in the barbaric destruction of the city, stupidity, Americans and British are always proud and boast of the fact that they could practically 24 hours a day to bomb Germany, and that was powerless to interfere with them, that the USSR broke the Wehrmacht ridge, but it was constant blows to industry that made it weak ...
  22. sleeve
    sleeve 10 May 2018 12: 36
    +3
    AND? Good article. Poster for more detailed study or personal enlightenment. But what's the use of it? The details of the "fight against fascism" of the Allies are documented and available. business then set a vector with a similar article. But we can’t debate with them, because there the issue of Germany’s destruction has been resolved, and who is against that Russian spy. After all, do we have an information department of the Moscow Region and a Russian television channel? Here's a question for them: where is the series of films about the atrocities (without quotes) of the allies? With documents and facts, links to research ... In short, how to do it ... They have everything about our "atrocities." Again, "what if they are offended?" Yes to ... them. Let's do it for yourself. At our place, the kids themselves are already growing up with the opinion that it was we who eliminated Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Let's not try to persuade the dog not to bite, but take a stick ...
  23. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 17 May 2018 15: 58
    0
    Um ... I do not agree with the author - it may not be humane, but how many times would the number of losses on the part of the USSR increase if the city were intact, some fortifications were intact, residents of Berlin were full of enthusiasm ...
  24. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 17 May 2018 20: 59
    0
    Yeah, we destroyed Berlin, raped the Germans, starved them, they already say that we also dropped atomic bombs on Japan! Good students to Dr. Goebbels came across: “The bigger the lie, the faster they will believe it!” - it seems so.
  25. NF68
    NF68 28 May 2018 20: 12
    0
    Before approaching the Red Army in Berlin, the Allied aviation did a great job there.