Military Review

"Ivan Gren": the problem is not solved, but indicated

152



Good news for patriots and reason to think for smart people. The state tests of a large landing ship "Ivan Gren" have recently completed.

The official site of the Yantar plant (Kaliningrad) states that the ship has now returned to the plant, where it will be inspected for technical condition, equipment and final finishing check.

At the end of May 2018, the Ivan Gren will be handed over to representatives of the Russian Navy.

"Ivan Gren": the problem is not solved, but indicated


On the one hand, the news, I repeat, is good. It’s not a secret for people who know that Russia doesn’t have modern landing craft. And the situation with Syria only aggravated the situation.

The first God knows for how many years the BDK that will be commissioned is good. But there are nuances.

And these nuances are such that as part of our fleets, the landing ships of the 80 project built in the 775 of the last century in the socialist Polish People's Republic are still in operation.



“Olenegorsky miner” (1976 year, KSF).
"Alexander Otrakovsky" (1978 year, CSF).
Kondopoga (1976 year, CSF).

Three of the twelve ships of the first series.

The second series. Of the 13 ships built (from 1981 to 1988 years), nine are in the ranks.



Third series. Here "svezhak." Azov (1990), Relight (1991), Korolev (1991).

And this is not the worst. The worst thing is the BDK project 1171, which also produced the plant "Amber". Scary is not what is made on the "Yantar", scary - when.



In the ranks of the Black Sea fleet serve THREE (!) ships of the project 1171. “Saratov” (1964), “Orsk” (1968), “Nikolai Filchenkov” (1975). And one in the Pacific Fleet. "Nikolai Vilkov" born in 1974.

It would seem, "Ivan Gren" - a breakthrough?

Not really.

On the one hand, yes, in comparison with the same BDK of early projects, “Ivan Gren” possesses more economical engines, there are two helicopters, more comfort for the crew and landing force.

On the other hand, the development and construction of "Ivan Grena" lasted so much that it became outdated, without becoming operational. Fact.

How else to explain the reduction of a series of ships of the project 11711 to two units? How and when will Peter the Morgunov be built? So far, no one can clearly explain.

"Grena" grind out. Otherwise you will not tell. Six years of development, three times changed the terms of reference for the project.

In 2004, the ship began to be built, and they launched it in 2012. Eight years. Well, six more for everything else.

Ugly, of course, to compare the incomparable, but 26 January 2001, one sea power issued a task to build a nuclear aircraft carrier itself. The aircraft carrier was solemnly commissioned on January 10 2009. Also 8 years ...

Of course, comparing the BDK "Ivan Gren" and the aircraft carrier "George Bush" is not just incorrect. But this is certainly not my fault.

For the 8 years, the maritime power has been building an atomic aircraft carrier with a displacement of 97 000 tons. A power claiming to be a sea power for the same period is building a BDK displacement 5 000 tons.

Not without flaws, yes.

It is difficult to say what is more important, the uninterrupted work of the latans on “D. Bush "or stability and reverse at the" Grena ". Judging by the fact that state tests are over, the problem was finally eliminated.

Or, as usual, pretend to fix it. This refers to the problems of "Ivan Gren", naturally.

In any case, "Ivan Gren" will serve. Whether Petr Morgunov can do this is not entirely clear. In the year 2016 flashed messages on the fact that in the Russian Defense Ministry it was decided to build larger ships of the new generation.

Who and where, while the secret.

Do you really need these BDK fleets?

Syria has shown that if the state conducts active operations beyond its borders, then yes. Are needed.

Of course, if “there is no money, but you are holding on,” then it is quite possible to get along with the rented dry cargo ships and rollers. Funny, of course, but what to do?

“Dear, we are arranging a war here, give a dozen barges for hire ...”



Laugh laughter, and the problem "Ivan Gren" outlined. We have forgotten how to build large ships. And the second subtext. We have no one to build ships in such quantities and quality.

Now Mihans will argue that we built what ships! "Eagles"! The fear and horror of all NATO floating in the oceans.

Well, yes, they were building. 20 years ago. And since the transfer of Peter the Great, Baltic Shipyards have built icebreakers and ... icebreakers. The exception is three frigates for the Indian Navy. Everything.

Yes, submarines are being built here. I will even say more: we are building it just stunned what good submarines. And to argue with the fact that "Borey" is not scary for enemies, there will be only a clinical idiot.

We build boats. Artillery, anti-sabotage, rocket. But boats are being built in Ukraine. Not an indicator.

But frigates, corvettes - alas. Are standing. Without engines. And they will stand for a very long time. Even despite the fact that the Defense Ministry of the Russian Federation with all its forces is trying to complete them. It is possible that there is even money.

No strength.

Forces are those who “did not fit into the market” and now plow anywhere and in any field, but not where ships are assembled and engines are built for them.

Or - the most vile option - not in our country. This, too, quite often takes place.

Overall, the situation is not the most beautiful: to build your ships on a proper scale is not yet possible, and pride does not allow ordering in the same Korea.

Or the sad experience of Mistral.

Speaking of the fact that large ships did not build in Russia for a long time, only the second part of the problem is indicated. And indeed it is. Twenty years since the construction of the last big ship.

Sad? But a fact. Even gas tankers are easier to order for Koreans. And once the tankers of the project "Crimea" with a displacement of 180 000 tons were a reality.



But even considering that in the times of a developed democracy, not everything has been collapsed yet, nevertheless, it is always very difficult to organize the construction of ships in a completely new project. And the fact that we are building huge submarines will not help in the creation of frigates and destroyers.

It is good that they are slowly forgetting about the projects of atomic aircraft carriers.

We must start with a smaller one. With corvettes, frigates, BDK. And then, having restored the base and personnel system, try to build something aircraft carrier. Over 8 years. In the meantime, once in such a period, only the BDK in 5 000 tons is obtained, it’s too early to even think about aircraft carriers.

Although, of course, many will have a different opinion on this matter.
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152 comments
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  1. cedar
    cedar 8 May 2018 08: 02
    +13
    Roman, I didn’t understand in the end. Have you acted as a patriot today, or as an all-grave guard?
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 8 May 2018 08: 12
      +19
      Quote: cedar
      Roman, I didn’t understand in the end. Have you acted as a patriot today, or as an all-grave guard?

      Neither one nor the other! This article is a fan to warm up the audience, what are you a little later and see!
      1. Lycan
        Lycan 8 May 2018 11: 04
        +6
        Quote: Serg65
        This article is a fan to warm up the audience,

        1) There is a fan.
        2) Now we are waiting for the crowd with a carriage of a known substance and shovels.
        1. jaguar
          jaguar 8 May 2018 12: 28
          +28
          Now we are waiting for the crowd with a carriage of a known substance and shovels ....... And let's go without substances and shovels. I agree with the article, especially about the lack of specialists !!! I myself have been working in the repair service for more than 20 years, I will say frankly (not nostalgia) that the Union did not have such a bestial attitude towards workers .... so that, for example, a lousy security guard at the entrance would be more valuable than an experienced CNC machine operator !!!!!!!!! !!!!!!
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 8 May 2018 13: 01
            +7
            Quote: jaguar
            there was no such bestial attitude towards workers in the Union .... so that, for example, a lousy security guard at the checkpoint was more valuable than an experienced cnc machine operator !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

            laughing Each time a hero! Under the Union, a lousy warehouse was much more valuable than a CNC machine operator! wink
          2. Serge Gorely
            Serge Gorely 8 May 2018 15: 40
            +15
            69 rem. Factory. Kaliningrad. By July, the full reduction. Squares are prepared for sale. Hard workers - forest. Constructed more and need to be repaired. And to whom?
            1. Cotnik
              Cotnik 11 May 2018 12: 22
              0
              And this is not a liberal statement of the question.
          3. Lycan
            Lycan 9 May 2018 11: 15
            0
            Quote: jaguar
            I myself have been working in the repair service for more than 20 years, frankly (not nostalgia), the Union did not have such a bestial attitude towards workers

            Glory to the repairmen! But. USSR is gone longerthan since 1991 (it's 26 years old). Where did you find the Union?
            Quote: Serg65
            Each time a hero! Under the Union, a lousy warehouse was much more valuable than a CNC machine operator!

            A mournful opinion, however, based on facts.
          4. Cotnik
            Cotnik 11 May 2018 12: 20
            +4
            So during the time of liberalism, the machine tool and instrument making were destroyed. But there were a great many valuable guards, and given that many of them are Garni lads from Lviv and Rivne .... The situation is even worse. About where those machinists prepare a separate question. There was a training school in the Union and the understanding that a good machine operator is a master of profound qualification ... BUT, BUT this was the position of experienced production workers. And where are they now. ???
    2. yehat
      yehat 8 May 2018 13: 41
      +6
      cheers
    3. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 8 May 2018 19: 39
      +2
      A note like "both ours and yours", both sides should be satisfied.
      1. BastaKarapuzik And
        BastaKarapuzik And 9 May 2018 19: 34
        +2
        In the end, both will be unhappy.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 9 May 2018 20: 18
          +1
          Well, they should, but not required. In reality, such a "multi-vector" ultimately leads to immersion in a warm odorous liquid. Some insects love it (lat. Scathophagidae).
    4. Jamuqa
      Jamuqa 10 May 2018 14: 08
      0
      I did not understand the meaning of the article. Here is this article about what?
      1. Krasnoyarsk
        Krasnoyarsk 12 May 2018 10: 20
        +2
        Quote: Jamuha
        I did not understand the meaning of the article. Here is this article about what?

        An article about the real state of things. Without omnipotence and without urapatriotizma.
        This is what the country should push off from and go forward. What is the problem? In the absence of personnel (which decide everything) they must be urgently trained. And here the question is not only to Min. Form. This issue should be resolved by the enterprises themselves by creating basic vocational schools destroyed by liberals during the years of the triumph of democracy. (I remember I stood and worked in the workshop, a drilling machine made in vocational schools (!!!) was twenty years old and would still work, but the plant was destroyed, right down to the bricks) After all, the problem is not only in the engineering staff (and it is certainly burning), but also in professional workers.
        There are a lot of questions waiting to be resolved. It is a pity that the government’s desire to resolve these issues is not observed. Of course, they solve hundreds of large, brightly visible questions, but millions of invisible ones, at first glance, they do not see and (or) do not want to see.
        Why, for example, is the Kaliningrad ship repair closed? Not needed? Oh oh For this, Manturova for ..ope! And more than once !!
    5. Simargl
      Simargl 11 May 2018 15: 57
      0
      Quote: cedar
      have you come forward today as a patriot cheer or as an all-grave guard?
      Guard patriot.
      1. Golovan Jack
        Golovan Jack 11 May 2018 16: 09
        +1
        Quote: Simargl
        Patriot guard

        Alas, a patriot. Much more, IMHO.
  2. Serg65
    Serg65 8 May 2018 08: 09
    +18
    laughing Roman, I'm surprised with you!
    We build boats. Artillery, anti-sabotage, rocket. But boats are being built in Ukraine. Not an indicator.

    Started for peace, and finished for health
    You need to start with less.

    I’m not Mikhan, but I will give you my review of your essentially propaganda opus!
    Roman, if Russia builds icebreakers, can't it build destroyers? I have already asked a question not long ago, what is the difference between a destroyer and an icebreaker? The only difference is the availability of weapons on the first! Weapons are the bottleneck, not the ship’s hull wink ! Of course, the question can be solved radically, put on the hull of the destroyer of the tower from the T-90, Akatsiy, Gvozdik and defend the homeland with a song ahead! Weapons .... to create modern weapons you need a lot and the main thing is not even money, the main thing is TIME !!
    Of course, if “there is no money, but you are holding on,” then it is quite possible to get along with the rented dry cargo ships and rollers. Funny, of course, but what to do?

    Roman, BDK is a special landing ship !!!!! BDK - this is not military transport and not a cargo ship, and not even a skater! Therefore, before you laugh, you need to understand the topic. Of course, I understand that your article is not about the fleet at all, but at least some kind of respect for the homeland should probably be had?
    1. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber 8 May 2018 09: 54
      +21
      I agree with you!
      You need to have very little respect for the Motherland in order to "sink" to this: build a "special landing ship", as you say, in such !!! deadlines.
      When the descent, into the water, of the next "unavailable analogue" of the tugboat, is highlighted as the next VICTORY!
      Shame and disgrace
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 8 May 2018 11: 23
        +10
        Quote: The Siberian Barber
        Shame and disgrace

        Shame and Shame, my dear friend, brains do not work!
        Quote: The Siberian Barber
        "to sink" to this: build a "special landing ship", as you say, in such !!! deadlines.

        Have you ever wondered why it happened?
        Not interested in what kind of project 11711? And what does it have to do with pr.1171? Read, analyze, suddenly the thought dawns on you that the construction of Grena lobbied the USC, and not the Navy ???
        Quote: The Siberian Barber
        When the descent, into the water, of the next "unavailable analogue" of the tugboat, is highlighted as the next VICTORY!

        And here I very much agree with you! Roll up a party because of each boat, and do not sleep for long bully
        1. The Siberian barber
          The Siberian barber 8 May 2018 12: 55
          +4
          About 25 crabs, for various purposes, including the Rooks, were launched (not transferred to the Navy) last year .. It sounds encouraging, of course, if you do not take into account the total tonnage, at least ..)
          "Rook" - an example)
          Indeed, "you can sleep" ..)

          The story with Gren, in my opinion, is known to everyone who is at least a little interested in this topic. Oh, how much time has passed ... hi
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 8 May 2018 13: 42
            +6
            Quote: The Siberian Barber
            The story with Gren, in my opinion, is known to all

            Everyone knows the tip of the iceberg, but not the whole story. Gren, this is a modernized Tapir, pr.1171, the Neva guys without further ado have remade Tapir and presented MO on a platter with a blue border, naturally MO began to wobble! At 90% percent, I am sure that USC, having included its connections, simply pushed this project, and MO, reluctantly, took its visor!
    2. mutantik83
      mutantik83 8 May 2018 11: 29
      +10
      Well, I agree with the author about something. We can build hulls of destroyers and frigates, but engines for 25 years did not bother to develop. Therefore, it is in a hurry that Saturn is developing engines for unfinished frigates. As for the icebreakers, then you did not quite understand the topic. In modern realities, the icebreaker and the destroyer are completely different things. If it were all so simple, they would rivet the same hulls on different types of ships, and then in the dock they would decide what it would be: a destroyer, an icebreaker, or a passenger ship.
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 8 May 2018 12: 05
        +4
        Quote: mutantik83
        In modern realities, the icebreaker and the destroyer are completely different things.

        laughing Those. Anton, is an icebreaker a watercraft, but a destroyer is not a watercraft? bully Anton, I figuratively united the hulls of different ships, is the essence of building the hull the same, the icebreaker hull of what consists of? And the destroyer hull?
        Quote: mutantik83
        but the engines for 25 years did not bother to develop

        Before you can make your own engines, you must first earn money, build factories for the production of components, re-create technology! It just so happened that, under the 80 Union,% of the factories associated with military shipbuilding were located on the territory of the Ukrainian SSR and most of the technical documentation was there! The idea with the order of turbines in Nikolaev was correct. Why? Because, while Russian industry will master ship turbines, it takes time, and even then it was not enough!
      2. yehat
        yehat 8 May 2018 13: 51
        +11
        Corps destroyers and frigates we can build

        Yes? And from what? In the Russian Federation there was not a single metallurgical enterprise that produced special grades of steel for the fleet. All that we can build now is second-hand crafts, which in 15-20 years are guaranteed to become a joke. Well, or build, but cheaper to build from gold. What ships, when was the last time you saw a banal can opener in a store with normal steel and execution?
        To build ships well (otherwise it’s better not to build at all), you need to seriously raise the technological level of industry.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack 8 May 2018 14: 19
          +2
          Quote: yehat
          There was not a single metallurgical enterprise in the Russian Federation that produced special grades of steel for the fleet

          It can be clarified - what kind of steel, and where did the enterprises that produced them before go? Well, or at least - where did these steels come out before?
          Thank you yes
          1. yehat
            yehat 8 May 2018 15: 12
            +6
            I will not tell and search for you.
            I will give only 1 example - earlier the Kirov Plant provided supplies of rolled products and other products containing “high-quality and special steel grades”. There was unique equipment, convenient infrastructure (a shipyard, moorings and a bay nearby, a railway directly at the factory). Now this production is destroyed. The enterprises of the Leningrad region combined are able to partially produce analogues, but 10 times less and significantly more expensive. And a number of products such as large-rolled can not be reproduced at all. There is such a plant, but in Perm. Guess how much it costs to get from there? And how to comply with the delivery time? And not only shipbuilders need its products.

            In Nikolaev built from production of Donbass and there the same problems, but export partially saved until the last 5-8 years. And this is not 2-3 enterprises, the mass of production of high-quality products has been bent - pipes, non-ferrous metallurgy and so on.
            And that’s all - the fleet’s supplier base. I'm not talking about what Chinese cables use.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack 8 May 2018 15: 54
              +2
              Quote: yehat
              There was not a single metallurgical enterprise in the Russian Federation that produced special grades of steel for the fleet

              Quote: yehat
              The enterprises of the Leningrad region combined can partially produce analogues, but 10 times less and significantly more expensive

              Quote: yehat
              And a number of products such as large-rolled can not be reproduced at all. There is such a plant, but in Perm

              I didn’t understand anything ... there is no production, but it is ... "more expensive", "go further", yes. But is there?
              Quote: yehat
              In Nikolaev built from production of Donbass and there the same problems

              Nikolaev is Ukraine, or what didn’t I understand again?
              Quote: yehat
              I will not tell everything and look for you

              This, excuse me, is completely unreasonable run over. It’s not me who said it, you said:
              Quote: yehat
              All we can build now is second-hand crafts, which in 15-20 years are guaranteed to be fun

              , and all due to the fact that
              Quote: yehat
              There was not a single metallurgical enterprise in the Russian Federation that produced special grades of steel for the fleet

              You, as it were, and confirm what was said.
              Tell me, are there no "special grades of steel" for nuclear submarines either?
              By the way, I’m not kidding, but I really don’t understand - how so?
              Quote: yehat
              I'm not talking about the fact that Chinese cables use

              Well, at least you don’t talk about it ... enough of Nikolaev, KMK ...
              1. yehat
                yehat 8 May 2018 16: 45
                +10
                enough wacky attempts to catch the word troll
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack 8 May 2018 16: 48
                  +4
                  Quote: yehat
                  enough wacky attempts to catch the word

                  Why stupid? Above everything is painted in detail. With quotes from you.
                  Quote: yehat
                  troll

                  You yourself ... well, I'm not offended by exats, okay yes
                  The bottom line: all your cry Yaroslavna a couple of comments above - about nothing request
          2. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 10 May 2018 08: 37
            +1
            Tell from what - such a super - duper steel the hull is made? I can answer - my uncle worked for about 30 years at the KhSZ as a locksmith, an assembler of hull structures. Normal steel - a sheet with a thickness of 14 - 18 mm., Depending on the installation location.
            1. Simargl
              Simargl 11 May 2018 16: 05
              0
              Quote: TermNachTER
              Normal steel - sheet thickness 14 - 18 mm
              Any steel has a brand. And if you read - there is a rust, stainless steel and cast iron.
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 22
        +4
        Quote: mutantik83
        We can build hulls of destroyers and frigates, but engines for 25 years did not bother to develop.

        Work out just bothered. We didn’t bother to build our own full-cycle plant for their production, as a result of which the final operations for their manufacture were carried out at the plant left from the USSR in Nikolaev, the only ship gas-turbine engine factory in the USSR.
        Quote: mutantik83
        Therefore, it is in a hurry that Saturn is developing engines for unfinished frigates.

        Saturn is not developing anything. Saturn localizes the very stages of production that were previously in Nikolaev. GTE documentation has been around for a long time. But the papers cannot move the ship in motion. And in order to release a gas turbine engine, the same test bench is needed, which was not in the Russian Federation until 2017.
    3. URAL72
      URAL72 8 May 2018 11: 57
      +9
      The author forgot to turn on the brain. Near Green, amber pies were sculpted by fairly modern frigates with completely new missile and electronic weapons, and this is a much more difficult task. The author himself indicates that the project has been changed three times, funding has been stopped several times, and the same lamentation about incompetence and everything has disappeared ... The main thing that has disappeared is the efficiency, honesty and quickness of leading personnel at all levels. Let us recall how a third of the country was quickly and clearly evacuated in the Second World War, now this is hardly possible, precisely because of the state administration system. Previously asked from the head, but now from the deputies. Drink, walk, steal, nothing will happen to you, you are the power, albeit small. Just do not need about Putin, this is not his task, there are competent bodies and conscious citizens for this, but the system does not work ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. yehat
        yehat 8 May 2018 16: 52
        +4
        Quote: URAL72
        sculpted fairly modern frigates with a completely new missile and electronic weapons

        there are some doubts about the absolute news, especially when you consider that the electronic industry has almost died.
        and ship missile systems are generally a separate callus of our military-industrial complex.
    4. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 9 May 2018 01: 46
      +7
      Quote: Serg65
      Weapons .... to create modern weapons you need a lot and the main thing is not even money, the main thing is TIME !!
      Serge! hi
      A little remark. Time, of course, is very important ... But only where it OBJECTIVELY defines the process. ("Even if you collect 9 pregnant women, they still will not be able to give birth to a baby in a month.")
      Weapons are different IN BRAINS !!! This applies to the element base, and to the technological process, and to the mat / program. provision, and to material science ... ("Although he is lame, he will not be the first to come to the finish line!").
      And there is such a thing as "school" - in the narrow and broad sense of the word ... In the dashing 90-00, the best brains flowed over the hill, the teacher-bearers of the tradition "went into a better world, a different world ... only you and I remained, my friend!"
      So why now nod at the mirror if we have what we have! Need to look for "TALENTS"!
      + IMHO +
      1. Serg65
        Serg65 9 May 2018 05: 15
        +2
        Hi Sash hi
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        So why now nod at the mirror if we have what we have! Need to look for "TALENTS"!

        You're right, Sasha! Happy Victory Day soldier
      2. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 9 May 2018 12: 19
        +1
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Need to look for "TALENTS"!

        1. Who will teach them?
        2. How do you convince them to stay in Russia / return to Russia?
  3. san4es
    san4es 8 May 2018 08: 34
    +8
    Even gas tankers are easier to order for Koreans.

    hi ..In Korea, they don’t make an “ice class” ... Now, they’ll complete the “Star” and start it themselves.
    ... And once the tankers of the project "Crimea" with a displacement of 180 tons were a reality

    ...It's only the beginning fellow
    1. ZVO
      ZVO 8 May 2018 11: 57
      +5
      Quote: san4es
      Even gas tankers are easier to order for Koreans.

      hi ..In Korea, the "ice class" do not ...

      Are you sure. therein. that you understand the question and understand what you are writing?
      We see that not.
      You don't know anything.
      About. that Christoph type gas carriers were built in South Korea at the Daewoo Shipbuilding Marine Engineering (DSME) shipyard.
      Ice class. up to 2.1m of ice.
      And they planned to produce 15 pieces there.
      1. san4es
        san4es 8 May 2018 12: 15
        +2
        We see that not.

        .... Alexander I? ,
        Quote: ZVO
        ... Daewoo Shipbuilding Marine Engineering (DSME).
        Ice class. up to 2.1m of ice.
        And they planned to produce 15 pieces there.

        ... Well done - I checked ... But I did not - I was mistaken hi
        ... And on the "clean" (oil) tankers of the ice class, can you tell me how it is in Korea?
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 8 May 2018 14: 17
          +2
          Quote: san4es

          ... And on the "clean" (oil) tankers of the ice class, can you tell me how it is in Korea?

          Put an order - it will be clean.
          Just who needs them there?
          1. san4es
            san4es 8 May 2018 14: 28
            +2
            Quote: ZVO
            ... Put an order - it will be clean.
            Just who needs them there?

            belay ... These are the times .. "SovKomFlot ordered from Samsung Heavy Industries (Daewoo neighbors ...).
            On July 29, 2015, in South Korea, the Samsung Heavy Industries shipyard began cutting steel on the third tanker of the 3K Arctic Shuttle Tanker project.
            A new Arctic ice-class oil tanker is being built under an agreement with Sovcomflot (SKF).
            A series of 6 oil tankers is being built to transport oil from the Novoportovskoye oil and gas condensate field (NGKM).
            The construction of ships is in the class RS and Lloyd's Register.
            The length of the tanker is 232 meters, the width is 34 m, and the draft is about 9,5 meters.
            Deadweight - 42 thousand tons.
            These are not the largest tankers, but they are suitable for the shuttle route.
            SKF has Aker Arctic dual-use oil tankers with a deadweight of 70 tons, which were also built at the Samsung Heavy Industries shipyard. hi

            request ... It is unclear why Y. Filchenok put Patrushev's disu (0.20 min video). am
            ..what Asians do not know how to do ...
    2. tchoni
      tchoni 8 May 2018 12: 04
      +1
      Et lan, we’ll build an ent ... and will we take the idea of ​​dviglo ea ento junk?
  4. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 09: 22
    +12
    We must start with a smaller one. With corvettes, frigates, BDK. And then, having restored the base and personnel system, try to build something aircraft carrier. Over 8 years. In the meantime, once in such a period, only the BDK in 5 000 tons is obtained, it’s too early to even think about aircraft carriers.
    -----------------------------
    Well, how? And by whom? Instead of modern shipyards, we are investing money in Rusnano, which gives other people's developments for its own and sucks billions from the budget that it manages to give “giants of privatization” in the form of bonuses and bonuses, and at the same time, young people are weaned from working with such examples. You can talk for a long time. And about Lisa Peskova, who in fashionable slaps walked around the shipyard and taught everyone about "optimization". We have a lot of unnecessary hipster husk divorced instead of the present case. Yesterday, the appointments of "professionals" and "experienced people" to the Government are not encouraging. This is the same Krylov quartet.
    1. tchoni
      tchoni 8 May 2018 12: 05
      +5
      Have you ever forgotten about grandmas in US bonds laughing
    2. yehat
      yehat 8 May 2018 15: 17
      +4
      You need to start with the production of filling, appliances, machine tools, tools. For example, to put on a boat not Mans diesel, but your own. Posting is not Chinese, but your own. The radars are not Japanese, but their own, the terminals and connectors are not German, but their own. Etc. Do your own multimeters, your screwdrivers, your knives, your pans.
      Then we will have the opportunity to build good ships.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 32
        +2
        Quote: yehat
        You need to start with the production of filling, appliances, machine tools, tools. For example, to put on a boat not Mans diesel, but your own.

        Already tried - complete garbage turns out. Actually, the whole story with imported diesel engines began just after installing Kolomensky diesel engines on the head 20380. The fact is that the plant does not actually need this order - it lives great on orders from Russian Railways. And low-volume naval diesel engines with strict requirements for them ... with them more screech than wool. And most importantly, nobody else needs these diesel engines, and nobody else does them with us. So the position of the plant is clear: listen to your felt boots ... © - take what is, there will still be no other.
  5. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  6. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 10: 01
    +5
    Quote: sustav75
    And how many later trials in kickbacks and theft will be, after the construction of the "Star", as with the "East" and Sochi!

    ---------------------------
    Here I am about the same. As if in the end of the mountain gave birth to a mouse. Like the same Vostochny one, from which one and a half launches were made, and there are no starting tables for the heavy class. He never pays off.
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 8 May 2018 11: 03
      +2
      Quote: Altona
      and Sochi!

      and what is wrong with the oceans ?!
      by the way in the east, too, is not a very smart saying
    2. ZAV69
      ZAV69 8 May 2018 21: 13
      +4
      East will pay off. And for defense it will not be superfluous. Right now, Kazakhstan will wag its tail, and we won’t have a costodrome with heavy class tables. In Plesetsk, it makes no sense to build. So East without options.
  7. turbris
    turbris 8 May 2018 10: 06
    +6
    The article begins simply with insulting future readers, whoever disagrees with the author’s opinion, Roman enlisted as cheering patriots. And then comes the already “annoying” moan that we cannot build large ships, and so what? Let’s now throw all the resources for the construction of large BDKs, only because we need to support the group in Syria? And then where to use them? Are we going to land large landings in different parts of the world? So, the article is just about nothing, the author’s only desire to be smart and nothing more.
    1. The Siberian barber
      The Siberian barber 8 May 2018 10: 46
      +3
      The question of support, of our group, in Syria, and the feverish search for ways to solve it, very much shows the presence of a problem !!
      Speed ​​of construction too!
      And where to use ships of this class, you don’t really need to look, in the presence of an extended coastline and a large number of islands. Or let’s then abolish the marine corps, huh ?? We, however, do not need to land troops, from your words ..!
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 8 May 2018 11: 02
        +3
        Quote: The Siberian Barber
        , in the presence of a long coastline and a large number of islands

        you propose to send to each island on the BDK?
        1. The Siberian barber
          The Siberian barber 8 May 2018 11: 19
          +2
          And, I wrote: "Give each island its own BDK!" ???
          What are we going to "transport" Marines with equipment in the near future? Or, let them sit at home?
          Maybe you have hope for the strength of the Auxiliary Fleet? There is "not good," believe me!
          Yes, and the Kuril Islands, something remembered, to the topic ..
          Only, I ask you, not to mention the "Caliber"))) our discussion is not broadcast on TV (sorry) laughing
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 8 May 2018 12: 23
            +2
            Quote: The Siberian Barber
            On what are we going to "carry" the marines with equipment in the near future?

            what What have I already missed in my life? We don’t already have a BDK? Not one BDK left?
            Quote: The Siberian Barber
            Maybe you have hope for the strength of the Auxiliary Fleet?

            What does ovsiga have to do with it?
            1. The Siberian barber
              The Siberian barber 8 May 2018 13: 44
              +1
              Ovsiga, by the way, is very actively involved in the work of the same Syrian Express. As far as possible, so to speak))
              1. Serg65
                Serg65 8 May 2018 13: 55
                +3
                Quote: The Siberian Barber
                Ovsiga, by the way, is very actively involved in the work of the same Syrian Express. As far as possible, so to speak))

                Alksey, from ovsigi, as far as I remember, KIL-158 and SPK-46150 participated, I don’t count as bulk carriers. When the Union was in the 9th brigade of the Black Sea Fleet UVF, the only cargo ship Colchis was the only one in the entire USSR Navy; it appeared due to negotiations between Syria and the USSR on the construction of a powerful USSR Navy base at the PMTO base in Tartus, negotiations did not work out, and Colchis stood for a long time Coal big monument!
                hi
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 8 May 2018 16: 49
            +2
            Quote: The Siberian Barber
            What are we going to "transport" Marines with equipment in the near future? Or, let them sit at home?

            where?
            from the answer there will also be a decision how many and which
    2. yehat
      yehat 8 May 2018 13: 57
      +1
      And let's change Serdyukov and his Amazons with Korea in the ratio of 1 BDK for one carcass. You look, and there will be a fleet)))
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 40
        +4
        Quote: yehat
        And let's change Serdyukov and his Amazons with Korea in the ratio of 1 BDK for one carcass. You look, and there will be a fleet)))

        In Korea. smile
        Because the construction of new surface ships for the fleet began just with the furniture maker. It was with him that the decision was made to build "river caliber carriers." It was Serdyukov who, within the framework of the “tit in hand” concept (the delivery to the armed forces of slightly modified military equipment of serial export projects (11356, 636.3, Su-30SM, Su-30MK2, Mi-35), without waiting for the readiness of the promised wunderwaffes) ordered 11356 in parallel from 22350. As a result, the first three 11356 are already ready, and for 22350 there has been a continuous shift in terms for almost 5 years.
        1. Simargl
          Simargl 11 May 2018 16: 24
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          It Serdyukov in the framework of the concept of "titmouse in hands"
          No no! Serdyukov is evil! Tell me again that the Su-57 and T-14 are not on the “conscience” of Kuzhegetich!
    3. Antokha
      Antokha 11 June 2018 20: 30
      0
      Here truly! I thought with what words to draw up my sensation from the poured mud, and turbris already wrote.
      Quote: turbris
      The article begins simply with insulting future readers, whoever disagrees with the author’s opinion, Roman enlisted as cheering patriots. And then comes the already “annoying” moan that we cannot build large ships

      We don’t know anything, we are not that, not this, and it used to be bad, some mucus flows. When the author of the house sees the rubbish on the floor, writes a comprehensive article or just sweeps the floor? So there are enough of us who sweep. It comes to the fleet, and so dofigisa what is already being done there.
  8. TermNachTer
    TermNachTer 8 May 2018 10: 30
    +11
    In fact, the BDK, like all landing ships around the world, are being built for landing. And it is possible to carry goods to Syria, including for completely peaceful purposes - building materials, food, etc. on ordinary ships. Unfortunately, all turbo walks such as "Captain Smirnov" have been safely lost. It would be very useful for the "Syrian express".
    1. max702
      max702 8 May 2018 11: 07
      +8
      Quote: TermNachTER
      In fact, the BDK, like all landing ships around the world, are being built for landing. And it is possible to carry goods to Syria, including for completely peaceful purposes - building materials, food, etc. on ordinary ships. Unfortunately, all turbo walks such as "Captain Smirnov" have been safely lost. It would be very useful for the "Syrian express".

      That's it! BDK is not bad, but it’s not particularly relevant, the ship primarily protects the FLAG and then the armament, which is why these ships are needed

      1. Serg65
        Serg65 8 May 2018 11: 32
        +5
        Quote: max702
        the ship is protected primarily by the FLAG and only then the armament

        good Golden words, my friend! Noah would have added ... besides the flag, the ship still protects the power of the state!
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 8 May 2018 13: 23
          +4
          By the way, the series "Captain Smirnov" was built taking into account the installation of light weapons, even more serious than the "Mistral", but the truth is in the case of mobilization.
          1. Serg65
            Serg65 8 May 2018 14: 30
            +4
            Quote: TermNachTER
            By the way, the series "Captain Smirnov" was built taking into account the installation of light weapons

            The 1609 project was originally built as a military transport, and for the World Cup, where they attributed the entire "Atlantic", these rollers were unprofitable ... gas turbines and speed in 25 nodes cut down all the secrecy in the bud laughing
            Personally, my opinion ...
            In the event of a war with NATO, the Union, as in WWI, prepared the KChF to seize the Black Sea straits. Why do I think so? In the 1983 year in the Black Sea Fleet, the 39-I DiMDS was created as part of the 197 brdk and the 65-th destroyer division, in the 1985-th year the 126-I DIB was formed, while part of the division was deployed on the territory of the 810-th OGvBMP ( Cossack Bay), the last skater Vladimir Vaslyaev came into operation in 1987! The landing group in full force! Yes, I forgot to say that a large-scale exercise was held in 85 at the Opuk training ground, in which more than 242 ships and vessels took part, of which: landing ships and boats - 69, transports - 73, security ships - 51 and 49 ships of the Technical Unit support!
            1. TermNachTer
              TermNachTer 8 May 2018 18: 31
              +3
              There were unprofitable ships in peace, but during the war or in a special period, they had no price. How many cargo could deliver to Syria, one "Captain Smirnov" or his sisters - spikes. And most importantly - very fast.
    2. Servisinzhener
      Servisinzhener 8 May 2018 14: 37
      +4
      I completely agree. The solution of such transport problems with the help of the BDK is very doubtful in its effectiveness. Although some in VO lamented that we do not have Mistral, because they would be very useful in the "Syrian express" for the delivery of goods. It is more practical to have special transport vessels with a large capacity, at least one per fleet.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 8 May 2018 18: 33
        +3
        use the Mistral as a cargo ship - nonsense.
        1. max702
          max702 8 May 2018 22: 46
          +3
          Quote: TermNachTER
          use the Mistral as a cargo ship - nonsense.

          But he at least brought some kind of benefit, otherwise they would have rotted more than once without having visited it .. I’m wise for the billion of the type that was returned and it was necessary to buy a dozen worthy bulk carriers and roller carriers .. but .. The money is so interesting subject...
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 9 May 2018 10: 03
            +1
            We are talking about military value, not in dollar terms. In general, I believe that the Russian fleet did not need the Mistral on any side. In other matters, they are not needed even now. As far as I know, all five French “Mistrals” now mostly stand idle near the pier in Toulon. And the only thing that the "frogmen" are concerned with is to whom to "vparit" them?
            1. max702
              max702 9 May 2018 13: 14
              0
              Quote: TermNachTER
              And the only thing that the "frogmen" are concerned with is to whom to "vparit" them?

              They were sold to Egypt, and we will supply KA-52 there under a contract ...
              Regarding the Mistral, military value sooner or later becomes a monetary equivalent as well as political decisions, say, they wouldn’t hinder the Syrian express at all .. It's expensive, it's not rational, but it wouldn’t be superfluous .. It would be better than the decision that was made (purchase of treasuries for a billion) ..
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 9 May 2018 20: 46
                +1
                The two that were supposed to be sold to Russia were sold to Egypt. I mean, which the "paddlers" built for themselves. And now they don’t know what to take off. I will not name the exact number, but there are either 3 or 4. And basically they rust in Toulon, because there is nothing to apply them to. Yes, and I strongly doubt that the Egyptians will be able to bring such large and complex vessels to any mind.
                1. TermNachTer
                  TermNachTer 10 May 2018 19: 03
                  +1
                  By the way, I recently found out that the last of the “Smyrn’s” among the Americans was in command of sea carriers. Just made an insert of 40 meters. Increased capacity, well, the speed of a couple of nodes decreased. Cunning bastards
  9. Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 8 May 2018 10: 56
    +2
    For 8 years, a sea power has been building a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with a displacement of 97 tons. A power claiming to be a maritime company for the same period is building a BDK with a displacement of 000 tons
    actually a stupid comparison, go through perestroika in the USA and something like that in '91 is not sure that they would have built a cart in 8 years
    On the other hand, the development and construction of "Ivan Gren" lasted so long that it became outdated without going into operation. Fact

    Is the ship out of date in 8 years?
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 8 May 2018 13: 25
      0
      I want to note that aircraft carriers have always built. They had no breaks. I would like to see what they could if they survived the same devastation as Russia in the 90s.
      1. TermNachTer
        TermNachTer 8 May 2018 18: 34
        0
        If Gren has been out of date for 8 years, then what can we say for a BDK that is 20-30 years old? And those are not only in the Russian fleet.
      2. Dmitry Khayritdinov
        Dmitry Khayritdinov 9 May 2018 19: 30
        0
        You better notice the ruin of your shipbuilding at the end of the 2010s, when the Nikolaev shipbuilding plant, on which all aircraft-carrying cruisers were built, was banal bankrupt. glad to build a sprat fleet in the form of raid minesweepers ... in a single copy ...
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 9 May 2018 22: 25
          0
          And we don’t have it at all. so there’s no question of any devastation. At what not only Nikolaev plants, but also Kherson died
  10. WWLaDmayrulys118
    WWLaDmayrulys118 8 May 2018 11: 11
    +2
    The first one for God knows how many years the BDK, which will go into operation, is good. But there are nuances .... The word GOD is written with BIG LETTER
  11. AleksSandro
    AleksSandro 8 May 2018 11: 29
    +2
    "On the other hand, the development and construction of" Ivan Gren "lasted so long that it became outdated without going into operation. Fact." Or maybe the ship is not outdated, but the BDK itself is out of date? Maybe someone thought that in the near future the need for them would disappear? And do not need to "charter barges"? While one BMD will flop from point A to point B, a BTA airplane can make a hundred round-trip flights. And if not one plane, but a whole regiment of BTA? It’s even a little safer than by sea, it’s much easier to sink one large vessel than to bring down a dozen or two aircraft. But it will be much more expensive than by sea. And if the need for transportation will arise not so often? In addition, you can not spend money on the construction of the BOD! In general, there are pros and cons everywhere
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 8 May 2018 12: 25
      +2
      Quote: AleksSandro
      And if not one plane, but a whole regiment of BTA?

      belay And if the whole army of BTA? And two armies ??? Wow silisha what !!!! good
      laughing laughing crying
  12. tchoni
    tchoni 8 May 2018 12: 11
    +1
    Roma, of course, caught up with nonsense with the foam of his mouth. I think that the troubles with the "Toast" are not only and not so much because of the clumsy builders, but because of the guys from the Moscow Region. We want it, we want this and this, and this and that. Tz changed? - changed - and more than once. Here you have a long-term construction. There you have a reason. Mistralka would have been part of the fleet, so these underpowers would have been scrapped for scrap, and that’s the end. Nr, there is a grain of truth in Roma ... with the engines it's really a problem)
    1. Simargl
      Simargl 11 May 2018 16: 32
      0
      Quote: tchoni
      I think that the troubles with the "Toast" are not only and not so much because of the clumsy builders, but because of the guys from the Moscow Region. We want it, we want this and this, and this and that.
      Well, they wrote above that these BDKs are the OSK lobby, and not the Moscow Region’s Wishlist, that’s throwing with TK.
  13. Dababi
    Dababi 8 May 2018 12: 28
    +1
    Interesting scribblers - it seems they say in the case, taking care of the Motherland, but they will definitely put in a spoon of shit somewhere! And immediately ears become visible!
  14. Robin - Bobbin
    Robin - Bobbin 8 May 2018 12: 30
    +1
    The author of the article rejoices, with caustic irony, smashing our Navy. It would be pure analytics, we could read it calmly ... And it looks like the US media, that is, I mixed facts with a wagon of a known substance.
  15. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 12: 36
    +3
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    by the way in the east, too, is not a very smart saying

    -----------------------------
    I look at you all the statements are smart. Apparently, something starts from the Vostochny every day.
  16. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 12: 38
    +4
    Quote: max702
    the ship is protected primarily by the FLAG and only then the armament

    -----------------------------
    Yes, yes, yes ... The neutral flag at the Olympics, the fishermen from the Nord, so the little things, the Turkish tomatoes, protected everyone? Have you forgotten anyone?
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 8 May 2018 12: 54
      +4
      Quote: Altona
      Have you forgotten anyone?

      laughing It’s precisely that Vasilenko forgot to mention that fishing troulers and tankers of the USSR were once captured by so small countries that you need a magnifying glass to find them on the map and you know, the USSR did not start a war against them! And even against South Africa, which sank a Soviet cargo ship in Angola, hostilities were not launched! Well, now everything seems to be mentioned?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 44
        +2
        Quote: Serg65
        And even against South Africa, which sank a Soviet cargo ship in Angola, hostilities were not launched!

        And against Taiwan too. Only the film was shot.
  17. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 12: 42
    +3
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    actually a stupid comparison, go through perestroika in the USA and something like that in '91 is not sure that they would have built a cart in 8 years

    ------------------------------
    And what is perestroika here? And "something like that", especially. The United States has already deindustrialized a great deal in its economy, and removed a part of its production abroad. Or are you still collecting cars in your mind in Detroit? We have 30 years of GDP can not gather the right people with competencies in the right place to resume production. For 6 months, Stalin managed to remove 90% of the military factories from the territories that the Germans then occupied and start arms production. But Putin is much smarter than Stalin.
    1. Serg65
      Serg65 8 May 2018 12: 58
      +5
      Quote: Altona
      But Putin is much smarter than Stalin.

      Pimpets!
      And let's go the Stalinist way? We will drive the peasants into slavery, the hard workers for the scanty ZP in factories, we will dispossess half the country and on construction sites, who don’t like to shoot, and for the 10 years we will make an economic breakthrough unprecedented in the world! And then happily heal ... probably!
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 May 2018 13: 55
        +7
        Quote: Serg65
        And let's go the Stalinist way?

        And let's
        Quote: Serg65
        We drive the peasants into slavery, hard workers for a scanty ZP in factories,

        So already driven. Have you noticed? :)))
        1. Serg65
          Serg65 8 May 2018 14: 58
          +3
          hi Welcome Andrew!
          Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
          So already driven. Have you noticed? :)))

          No Andrew, I did not notice! Have passports taken away from modern peasants? Or are they given 5 years of camps for a stolen spikelet of wheat? They were forcibly driven into collective farms? Are they dispossessed to replenish labor on the construction of Zvezdochka, Vostochny or Krymsky Bridge?
          What do you think of the modern slavery of the peasants?
          1. hoot
            hoot 8 May 2018 16: 19
            +4
            Hello Sergey! I do not want to prove something to you, but still could not resist. How do you immediately one-sided, passports, camps, fists in which the fists "do not unbend", forcible dropping into collective farms ... You have the extreme right point of view. There is another extreme left ... But in reality there are no extremes. Passports were not taken away, but there were difficulties in obtaining them, and that was not always (my parents were from the village). Camps over the spikelet, only in wartime. The bulk of the peasants were poor and laborers, and they went to collective farms without weighty whips (again, I know from the source). In general, the community was always strong in the village. Modern slavery is the complete destruction of the village. If you do not take agricultural holdings, then the medium and small farms only have to survive and die. Schools, kindergartens, first-aid posts and hospitals are optimized by democrats, making money for a normal existence is not realistic. If there are units from the young generation who will live and work in such conditions, then it remains only to call them a slave. But there are no youth in the villages, only somewhere in the Kuban, the Stavropol Territory and other southern regions, in this respect a little better. Advice, always be critical of any information, especially of historical content.
            1. Serg65
              Serg65 8 May 2018 21: 12
              +2
              Hello hoot, I don’t know how to dignify you.
              Quote: hoot
              in reality there are no extremes

              I agree!
              Quote: hoot
              Passports were not taken away, but there were difficulties in obtaining them, and that was not always (my parents were from the village)

              Parents from the village were not only with you! My father straightened his passport from the head of the passport office (distant relative) in 49 for 2 bottles of moonshine. 6 loaves of bread and 2 kilo fat, times were hungry. If the collective farmer was going to go somewhere and only within his district, he was obliged to get a certificate proving his identity, the certificate lasted 30 days and the chairman of the collective farm issued this certificate. he was a king and God in the village, he wanted mercy, he wanted to wash powder! It all depended on his human qualities! But you are right in some way ... they still issued passports to the collective farmers, but only to those who went on leave, for study and treatment, and only with the permission of the collective farm meeting!
              Quote: hoot
              Camps over the spikelet, only in wartime. .

              Decisions of the CEC and SNK of the USSR of August 7 1932 years "On the protection of property of state enterprises, collective farms and cooperation and the strengthening of public (socialist) property"

              Quote: hoot
              But there are no youth in the villages, only somewhere in the Kuban, the Stavropol Territory and other southern regions, in this respect a little better

              Not in Khakassia, in the villages of the Kuraginsky district. Minusinsky. Shushensky districts of the Krasnoyarsk Territory, in the forest-steppe zone of the Altai Territory. Volgograd region. I will not speak for other regions of Russia, Belgorod Oblast, I haven’t been, and people live in the above quite normal!
              Quote: hoot
              Advice, always be critical of any information.

              laughing Thanks for the advice and wish you the same!
              1. Alexey RA
                Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 49
                +2
                Quote: Serg65
                Parents from the village were not only with you! My father straightened his passport from the head of the passport office (distant relative) in the 49th for 2 bottles of moonshine. 6 loaves of bread and 2 kilos of fat, times were hungry.

                It was necessary to leave earlier. My ancestors in the early 30s realized that the collective farm was going somewhere wrong - and sent a messenger to Leningrad. In those days, they didn’t look for inquiries - hands were urgently needed in the city, so my great-grandfather quickly got a job. And then it’s standard: there is work, there is a hostel - everything, there are all the necessary documents to officially become a city. And then he pulled his family into the city.
                Quote: Serg65
                all the same, they were issued passports to collective farmers, but only to those who went on leave, for study and treatment, and only with the permission of the collective farm meeting!

                EMNIP, there was another option not to return after the army - to get a job at the factory after the service.
          2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
            Andrei from Chelyabinsk 8 May 2018 20: 35
            +3
            Quote: Serg65
            No Andrew, I did not notice! Have modern peasants taken away passports?

            Did the evil Stalin really select them? :))))))) Sergey, passports were not issued to peasants in those years. And if you believe that this somehow limited them, then I strongly recommend that you look at the statistics of the rural and urban population - it was in the pre-war USSR that there was a massive displacement of the population from the village to the cities.
            Quote: Serg65
            Or are they given 5 years of camps for a stolen spike of wheat?

            This was, alas, the classic “local excess” when the law was passed for one, and worked completely differently, as a result of which we had to work on the mistakes and broadly amnesty the victims.
            Quote: Serg65
            They were forcibly driven into collective farms?

            No, they have every right to live a proud and impoverished farmer.
            Quote: Serg65
            Are they dispossessed to replenish labor on the construction of Zvezdochka, Vostochny or Krymsky Bridge?

            I agree, under Vissarionych, the fists had to be scanty. Dear Sergey, tell me, where are our fists in Russia? :))))
            Today, the peasantry of the Russian Federation is an extremely low-income social group of the population, their incomes are very, very small and in this respect today's realities are hardly any different from what was in the pre-war USSR
  18. Robin - Bobbin
    Robin - Bobbin 8 May 2018 12: 45
    0
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    actually a stupid comparison, go through perestroika in the USA and something like that in '91 is not sure that they would have built a cart in 8 years
    Altona just doesn't want to understand this ...
  19. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 13: 03
    +3
    Quote: Serg65
    And let's go the Stalinist way? We will drive the peasants into slavery, the hard workers for the scanty ZP in factories, we will dispossess half the country and on construction sites, who don’t like to shoot, and for the 10 years we will make an economic breakthrough unprecedented in the world! And then happily heal ... probably!

    -------------------------------
    And let's all lend on our ears and remove jobs. Isn't that the same thing? And I look directly at your fists for love. Do you also give bread a loan? As for the meager salaries, so you at Roosevelt in the Trudarmia generally work for a pack of cigarettes and a bowl of soup. And live happily, just learn a story for a start, otherwise you’ve got stamps in your head, like nails in a 16 kg box.
  20. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 13: 03
    +1
    Quote: Robin - Bobbin
    Altona just doesn't want to understand this ...

    ------------------------
    I see you have a lot of understanding, mister with a nickname from British folklore.
  21. ver_
    ver_ 8 May 2018 13: 06
    0
    Quote: Serg65
    laughing Roman, I'm surprised with you!
    We build boats. Artillery, anti-sabotage, rocket. But boats are being built in Ukraine. Not an indicator.

    Started for peace, and finished for health
    You need to start with less.

    I’m not Mikhan, but I will give you my review of your essentially propaganda opus!
    Roman, if Russia builds icebreakers, can't it build destroyers? I have already asked a question not long ago, what is the difference between a destroyer and an icebreaker? The only difference is the availability of weapons on the first! Weapons are the bottleneck, not the ship’s hull wink ! Of course, the question can be solved radically, put on the hull of the destroyer of the tower from the T-90, Akatsiy, Gvozdik and defend the homeland with a song ahead! Weapons .... to create modern weapons you need a lot and the main thing is not even money, the main thing is TIME !!
    Of course, if “there is no money, but you are holding on,” then it is quite possible to get along with the rented dry cargo ships and rollers. Funny, of course, but what to do?

    Roman, BDK is a special landing ship !!!!! BDK - this is not military transport and not a cargo ship, and not even a skater! Therefore, before you laugh, you need to understand the topic. Of course, I understand that your article is not about the fleet at all, but at least some kind of respect for the homeland should probably be had?

    ... everything is decided - Chubais and his companions on the oars of this * galley * .., and on a good journey - chi in the sky, chi in the sea ..
  22. Altona
    Altona 8 May 2018 13: 07
    +1
    Quote: Serg65
    It’s precisely that Vasilenko forgot to mention that fishing troulers and tankers of the USSR were once captured by so small countries that you need a magnifying glass to find them on the map and you know, the USSR did not start a war against them!

    ---------------------------
    Huh? And these "trawlers and tankers" were definitely Soviet? Or maybe their Sovcomflot rented from Liberia? You were not interested in such a small country, whose commercial fleet was the most powerful in the world?
  23. vlanis
    vlanis 8 May 2018 15: 09
    +4
    Quote: Serg65
    Quote: Altona
    But Putin is much smarter than Stalin.

    Pimpets!
    And let's go the Stalinist way? We will drive the peasants into slavery, the hard workers for the scanty ZP in factories, we will dispossess half the country and on construction sites, who don’t like to shoot, and for the 10 years we will make an economic breakthrough unprecedented in the world! And then happily heal ... probably!

    In any case, in my memory, locksmiths, turners, and welders received under the USSR more accountants and other economists. And the heads of enterprises were appointed exclusively from people with specialized education. For example, in aviation, only a real flying pilot could become the company commander. That's when the "effective managers" began to command the parade. Then they began to fly their Novosibirsk to Vladivostok through Moscow. It seems to be civil aviation, and the fleet is not the same thing, but the situation is very similar.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Serg65
      Serg65 8 May 2018 21: 15
      +1
      Quote: vlanis
      Anyway, in my memory

      belay Did you live under Stalin?
      1. vlanis
        vlanis 9 May 2018 08: 30
        +1
        Yes, he lived, he was still small, I vaguely remember, but I remember Khrushchev well. And they built not only under Stalin, Missiles Into space Korolev under Khrushchev launched, and the first Atomic icebreaker with him. My seniority began in 1966, so I can compare.
  24. nnz226
    nnz226 8 May 2018 15: 47
    +2
    It’s just that now the sea landing, if such happens on the enemy’s coast, despite the heroism and courage of the Russian marines, will have the fate of the ever-memorable Evpatoria (winter of 1941-42 years). Let me explain: then, because of the storm that broke out, the reinforcements could not come (what the “admiral” Oktyabrsky thought was - I don’t know, I don’t believe that weather forecasters could not predict the storm in a couple of days, and even in winter, and even on the Black Sea). Guys (about 600 people), ALL died. And they fought heroically. Today there are no landing support ships (at least artillery), I recall the good film "Sea Soul", which begins with an episode of working out the sea landing, and there stands the cruiser Ave. 58 (or 58bis) and threshes 12-mm barrels on the bank of the 152. And now??? 57-mm farting on the BDK ??? They will support ... Fit a cruiser like "Orlan" or other 1164 with a paired 130-mm system, so they are not "ground" for this ... "Mistrals" were made (in my humble understanding) due to the fact that more than 10 helicopters could be based, and attack helicopters, which could organize fire support for the marines, when the adversary would try to drop them into the sea by all means, including tanks. The feat of political officer Filchenkov and four other Black Sea sailors with him who threw grenades under German tanks is an example of heroism, but, as a role model, only in a critical situation. And then what to stop adversary tanks ??? What will go to the bridgehead ??? RPG-7 and further in increasing numbering ??? I'm afraid they will not be enough. Armored personnel carriers that are armed are vehicles for travel, not defense. So fire support for the amphibious assault will not be for sure! And these are unnecessary victims with a low chance of completing a combat mission. And Grenn already carries 2 (!!!) the helicopter .... So it’s good to use it only as a carrier of personnel and equipment ...
    1. Evgenii Xolod
      Evgenii Xolod 8 May 2018 17: 58
      +2
      I'm afraid during the amphibious operations of the sample 42 years have passed. all the more so, who interferes with ironing the coastal edge with caliber expanders, and rocket artillery to help with aviation. But I’m afraid the cruisers will be unnecessarily vulnerable with the direct support of landing operations in Yemen. I remember the stele of the boat got a rocket from the shore (and he’s any faster than a cruiser or a new corvette)
    2. Protos
      Protos 11 May 2018 00: 12
      0
      For work at the landing site, the BDK has MLRS laughing
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/А-215_Град-М
  25. Evgenii Xolod
    Evgenii Xolod 8 May 2018 17: 49
    +2
    I will try to answer.
    There was a break in the construction of ships for almost 1-odd years with the almost complete destruction of the shipbuilding industry, specialists who knew how to retire for a long time. What is happening now is the birth of the fleet again, hard and with a creak. But it is.
    2 sailors did not slow down the pace of production and re-equipment, avionosci are the main unit of their fleet (meaning not mass), and the technology for building these ships has been developed. So if you compare the time for the slipway, the submarine will help you.
    I do not quite understand these clever articles after 10 years of Leberoid rule in 90, the pace of recovery is not bad (and the whole country) they (Leberales) destroyed the country during the year of rule in 1916 so they collected it before the war. And then there was also a civil war with the destruction of everything and everything, starting with industry. And ending with pride in my country. And then suddenly they want the aircraft carrier to bake like grandmother’s pies ...... Expert and you knead the dough, prepare the filling, do you have a bake and bake for such pies ????
  26. Tomato
    Tomato 8 May 2018 18: 20
    0
    If so much torment, it would not be cheaper to order a similar ship in China or South Korea.
    I anticipate objections, but to build so much that it enters the stand is already morally obsolete, this is overkill.
    1. vlanis
      vlanis 9 May 2018 08: 48
      +5
      This cheapness comes sideways. They stopped teaching their artisans, eliminated vocational schools, old masters died out in almost 30 years, Plants were looted, and new ones were in no hurry to build. With the generation of lost skills and technology. There is no continuity. A good welder or locksmith must be learned for at least 5 years. A graduate of the institute studies for 5-6 years full-time, then he needs the same amount to reduce theories to practice before he can give something sensible, While there are still remnants of specialists, you need to build your ships, and do not spare money for these specialists .
      1. Tomato
        Tomato 9 May 2018 16: 06
        0
        This phenomenon has 2 sides. One is named by you - in solidarity.
        But there is a second. Recall the Russo-Japanese War. You lost because you didn’t have time to build several armadillos by a certain time. The Japanese have done this before. Moreover, both we and the Japanese ordered ships in the West - England, Germany, France.
        1. Dmitry Khayritdinov
          Dmitry Khayritdinov 9 May 2018 19: 21
          +1
          There is absolute ignorance of the question of the Russo-Japanese war. it’s not even the timing of construction, but as weapons. By the number of ships, we were not inferior to the Japanese fleet. The Russian fleet lost in tactics and in the type of shells. Re-read at least the “Tsushima” of Novikov-Priboy to learn that the Japanese “shimoza” inflicted more substantial damage to our ships. And again, in your own comment you yourself refuted your own statement. and therefore the Russian fleet lost, since Japan was prepared for war by Europe. Can you remind why we lost the defense of Sevastopol in 1854? recall the composition of the aggression?
          1. Tomato
            Tomato 9 May 2018 19: 51
            0
            1. "Tsushima" I read in childhood. It’s just funny to refer to a work of art. But unlike you, I still read a lot of more serious books, and research on the topic.
            Europa helped Russia no less:
            "during the construction of the cruiser" Bogatyr "on shipyards of the German company "Volcano"
            "similar excesses were observed and in Toulon during the construction of the "Tsesarevich" and "Bayan", and on shipyards of Kramp during the construction of "Retvisan" and "Varyag."
            "So, appointed commander of the building in Kiel cruiser Askold, 2nd-rank captain N.K. Reicenshtein, "
            ---------------------------------
            What, having already forgotten ??
            Just do not get into the discussion, if it is not clear what it is about.
            By the start of the war, half of the 10 battleships ordered had not been received. So it is today. Not a single modern BDK, but already around enemies.
          2. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 10 May 2018 08: 46
            +1
            Dmitry, "Tsushima" is a purely artistic work, also densely seasoned with ideological content. There are many other books where the events of 1904-05 are much more professionally understood. My personal opinion, the main thing that the Japanese excelled us in, is the preparation of l / s. Their commandants were better trained and their sights were better and artillery. Read Melnikov's "Varyag" and "Rurik was the first."
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 57
          +1
          Quote: Tomatoes
          You lost because you didn’t have time to build several armadillos by a certain time

          If you build as the Admiralty in St. Petersburg - nothing surprising. This is incomprehensible to the mind - during the construction of the lead ship of the Peresvechey series, Oslyaby, there, the Baltzavod managed to surrender the Peresvet fleet and the Victory that was laid down after its launch. Moreover, Oslyabya was also “late for the war” in Port Arthur, but the “Victory” laid down 3 years after it was not. belay
          Quote: Tomatoes
          Moreover, both we and the Japanese ordered ships in the West - England, Germany, France.

          We had a real chance to rearm with armored cruisers - “exotic cruisers”. But the mess and the lack of a single person responsible for negotiations and procurement killed this idea in the bud - the fleet and the Foreign Ministry acted in parallel, interfering with each other.
          However, the fleet can be understood - the last time the Foreign Ministry, acting alone, put the fleet before the fact that its base would be Port Arthur, which, according to the navies, was absolutely unsuitable for the base of the fleet.
          1. TermNachTer
            TermNachTer 10 May 2018 14: 11
            0
            Alexei, you are a little confused. Oslyabya was in the Far East, then returned to the Baltic and only then became part of the 2nd Pacific
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 10 May 2018 16: 24
              0
              Quote: TermNachTER
              Alexei, you are a little confused. Oslyabya was in the Far East, then returned to the Baltic and only then became part of the 2nd Pacific

              Was not "Oslyabya" on TO - not he managed to get there.
              It was only at the end of July 1903 that they managed to push him out of the Baltic Sea into the 1st TOE - and he went slowly, first alone, and then together with Aurora, Dmitry Donskoy and MM. As a result, by the beginning of the war, the detachment of Virenius only reached Djibouti - and turned back.
              1. TermNachTer
                TermNachTer 10 May 2018 17: 19
                0
                Sorry, wrong.
  27. ZAV69
    ZAV69 8 May 2018 21: 25
    +5
    Quote: Serg65
    hi Welcome Andrew!
    Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
    So already driven. Have you noticed? :)))

    No Andrew, I did not notice! Have passports taken away from modern peasants? Or are they given 5 years of camps for a stolen spikelet of wheat? They were forcibly driven into collective farms? Are they dispossessed to replenish labor on the construction of Zvezdochka, Vostochny or Krymsky Bridge?
    What do you think of the modern slavery of the peasants?

    And where do you see the peasants? There are almost no one in the village. Who to cry then? Senior citizens? Where there used to be a collective farm or state farm for 500 hard workers, it’s good if 2-3 farmers barely make ends meet. And everyone else in Moscow (security) or in the Moscow region on chips and dog food work.
    My (Tula) region borders on Moscow. This is so with us ..... But transport to Moscow, compared with the Soviet period, has risen significantly. Consider your production and no, but Moscow summer residents are spreading around the district, for their needs a huge number of construction yards, Uzbek loaders there. Like this. But there are no peasants. Absolutely.
  28. Serg65
    Serg65 8 May 2018 21: 26
    +2
    Quote: Altona
    And I look directly at your fists for love.

    I have a love for Russian people!
    Quote: Altona
    Are you also giving a loan of bread?

    Bread cannot be lent. my father always taught me this and I teach my children this! A man asks for bread, give him joyfully!
    Quote: Altona
    you are at Roosevelt's Trudarmia

    Why do I need the Roosevelt labor army, I am much more interested in the Soviet labor army!
    Quote: Altona
    and then the punches in my head typed, like nails in an 16 kg box.

    bully Rudeness has become an integral part of modern neocommunists !!!!
  29. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 8 May 2018 22: 02
    +2
    In vain, "Rhinos" were cut, oh in vain ... :(
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 10 May 2018 08: 47
      +2
      Then a lot of things were cut in vain. For example, BOD "Azov", with SAM - 300.
      1. Bersaglieri
        Bersaglieri 11 May 2018 01: 10
        0
        Yeah. Although the test platform is combat-ready. And left the "Kerch" old.
  30. NGK
    NGK 9 May 2018 04: 20
    +7
    In 1992, 2001 and 2007, I visited South Korea at the HHI shipyard in Ulsan and witnessed how South Koreans built ships of any size, without bravura marches and victorious interviews, without exclamations about their own exclusiveness and lack of analogues of their manufactured products. and appointments. Nearby, on the same territory, by the way, is a military shipyard, where frigates for the Korean Navy were probably built.
    The shipyard produces about 1 vessel per week - from tankers and gas carriers of any size and deadweight to dry cargo vessels. Dozens of ships are under construction at the same time.
    Transfer of the next vessel to the customer is a rather routine procedure and does not cause much excitement.
    It was very interesting to watch how the shipyard progressed from year to year. If in 1992 in
    Since ships were built according to European projects and with the installation of European and other non-Korean equipment and mechanisms, by 2007 almost everything was already Korean of its own design or licensed, made in Korea. That is, import substitution in action - without a campaign in the press and television appearances by the prime minister, president, etc.
    Their order portfolio is always full for several years ahead. The ships are built very high quality and it is a pleasure to work on them. The qualifications of engineers and workers are quite high. By the way, if in 1992 and 2002 there were a lot of "branded" specialists - adjusters of Europeans, then in 2007 there were already almost only Koreans. Yes, and Russians from the republics of Central Asia appeared in harmful paint industries. For Koreans, this has become considered prestigious and very dangerous.
    The most interesting thing is that the training system for workers and engineers, as well as the “social network” are very similar to our Soviet, if not to say that they are torn off. At the shipyard, there are analogues of our vocational schools and something like technical colleges.
    Decent houses were built for the workers around the shipyard, just like our high-rise buildings at one time. Hospitals, schools, kindergartens. Factory buses are constantly driving somewhere smiling and neatly dressed "Korean". And if you work at the shipyard with your wife, then your second child can study at the university for free, due to HHI. And also preferential interest-free loans, personal cars at the lowest prices, etc. Their vacation is very short, but in the working calendar of the year there are a lot of non-working holidays. We thought - no less than ours. And about workwear and other trade union stuff in every workshop and department, it’s not worth talking about. Everything to ensure that you work well for the company. And at the beginning of the working day, the obligatory ritual of the "oath" to work well. It is performed by all and strictly, even if the authorities do not see it. The salary is very decent - for highly skilled workers up to 4000 USD per month.
    That is, you just want to and in the short term - no more than the time that our president is at the helm - only one shipyard can configure you with any number of ships and warships of any size and purpose.
    Imagine - one ship per week! So you can, even with the level of corruption that they have there. But this requires a nationally oriented government, not
    all sorts of different Medvedevs, Dvorkovichs with Grefs and Chubais. And you all here, we had some kind of collapse, but how bad it was in the 90s and how good it is now. Now it’s worse than in the 90s, because there’s just a chatter and “Odessa noise that looks like work”!
    And one more interesting moment. Koreans are big drinkers. They can also afford to drive. And after a working day around the plant, heaps of hard workers and engineers are sitting at bars drinking, hugging, sometimes fighting among themselves, sometimes with the police. Then come rumpled with a fume in the morning to work. Yes, they have a national sport here - drink and go beat American soldiers. There was some American base nearby. I have not seen a single soldier in uniform and “in civilian life.” Probably, therefore.
    1. Cherry Nine
      Cherry Nine 9 May 2018 10: 51
      +3
      Quote: NGK
      That is, you just want to and in the short term - no more than the time that our president is at the helm - only one shipyard can configure you with any number of ships and warships of any size and purpose.

      It will seem strange to you, but one shipyard - Hyundai Heavy Industries - cannot do anything. What you saw at the shipyard is part of the national modernization project. The USSR until the 60s was something similar in spirit (but not in implementation).
      By the way, about presidents
      Park Geun-hye, 2013-2017 - 24 years in prison, corruption, nepotism, disclosure of state secrets.
      Lee Myung-bak, 2008-2013 - goes to interrogations while free. Corruption.
      But Mu Hyun, 2003-2008 - allegations of corruption ($ 6 million, Karl! Beggar!), Committed suicide.
      Kim Dae-jung, 1998-2003, died his death in freedom, but his grandfather's youth was cheerful. 1971st - presidential candidate, 45% of the vote. 1973, taken to the basement by Korean Cossacks. Released after US intervention. Immediately tied already officially, 5 years in prison. Lean back in 78th. In the 80s he was again arrested, sentenced to death for anti-state activities. Replaced for life. In 1982, he was deported to the United States.
      In general, a military grandfather. Bulk still grow and grow)))
      Kim Young Sam 1993-1998 Accusations of corruption, the son served three years.
      Ro Dae Woo, 1988-1993 In 1993, arrested, corruption, high treason, 22 years in prison. In the 98th amnestied.
      Chung Doo-hwan, 1980-1988 - Sentenced to death in 1996, later pardoned (pardoned by Kim Dae-jung, who was also sentenced to death under the same Chung Doo-hwan). The court verdict included $ 370M in damages, which the family of Chun Doo-hwan is still paying.
      Pak Jonghi, 1962-1979, the "father of South Korea" and the "Korean economic miracle", was killed in 1979.

      I doubt very much that the Korean way of modernization seems attractive to Vladimir Vladimirovich.
  31. Vladimir1155
    Vladimir1155 9 May 2018 08: 59
    +2
    urapatriot's answer to the all-wearer! BDKs do not become obsolete as fast as strike ships, so tapirs still serve, not to mention Polish BDKs, they reduced the Gren series because there is no need for numerous landing ships, there are enough of them. The author did not mention the trophy unit in the Crimea, it’s quite possible to return in operation, Total will add three BDK, then you can write off all four tapirs, if they cease to satisfy the requirements for the state of the building. In general, you need to switch to KFOR on the Moscow theater of operations in order to transfer them to inland waterways. then it’s possible to not build a BDK for another 25 years, because they are enough for oceanic theater of operations and, accordingly, they have 8 pieces for the whole country, replacing small landing ships on the seas.
    1. Dmitry Khayritdinov
      Dmitry Khayritdinov 9 May 2018 19: 11
      +1
      And here we have the Perekop Asset Management Company and, by the way, similar to it, also Polish built in the 80s. and nothing - plow the vast expanses of the oceans, teaching cadets of higher educational institutions !!!
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 10 May 2018 12: 07
      +4
      Quote: vladimir1155
      BDKs do not age as fast as strike ships, so tapirs still serve, not to mention Polish BDKs,

      BDK are already outdated - half a century ago. In the current conditions, bringing a huge box full of personnel, fuel and ammunition at low speed to the shore is a meat grinder. As the experience of the same Yankees has shown, it is almost never possible to reliably crush the BO, and it will not miss the target with the size of the BDK and the mortar.
      1. Vladimir1155
        Vladimir1155 10 May 2018 23: 41
        +2
        The BDKs are not outdated, there is no alternative to them, although for sea areas it is more efficient not to have large, but medium and small landing ships, less target, less visibility, less draft, faster landing, and plus the possibility of transferring GDP
  32. chingachguc
    chingachguc 9 May 2018 10: 24
    +2
    a landing ship is not the same as a cargo ship. You can, of course, carry goods from Sevastopol to Tartus to the BDK, but you must understand that the main task of the BDK is to deliver and unload troops to unequipped beaches. Therefore, the landing ship will not replace anything.
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 9 May 2018 22: 10
      +1
      Well, if you take into account that Russia does not suggest any such landings, then what is available is quite enough. And it will be visible there.
  33. Robin - Bobbin
    Robin - Bobbin 9 May 2018 12: 16
    +1
    Quote: Altona
    I see you have a lot of understanding, mister with a nickname from British folklore.

    Well, here is the transition to personality ... And it discusses TOTAL FIRST page-and TTX BDK. By the way, Russia cannot print unsecured pieces of paper unlike the USA, THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS FOR LAGING.
  34. Dmitry Khayritdinov
    Dmitry Khayritdinov 9 May 2018 19: 08
    0
    Yes, Roma, just to imagine that everything was gone. But didn’t that the Severodvinsk nuclear submarine or the first Boreya hull were waiting for more than twenty years to get off the slipway? And the fact that BDK Ivan Gray was launched was an achievement, not a problem. We have another problem now - diesel engines for a series of frigates, because the "neighbors" have ceased to supply their products. But we will solve this problem. And we’ll build a new type of aircraft carrier. have no doubt
  35. Alexander Voronkov
    Alexander Voronkov 9 May 2018 22: 14
    0
    "We have forgotten how to build large ships ..." Who are we, the author, the expert !? You Abrams, rejoicing for nothing, in general, were not able to build. Carabel ...
  36. d1975
    d1975 9 May 2018 23: 03
    +2
    Quote: Serg65
    Roman, BDK is a special landing ship !!!!! BDK - this is not military transport and not a cargo ship, and not even a skater! Therefore, before you laugh, you need to understand the topic. Of course, I understand that your article is not about the fleet at all, but at least some kind of respect for the homeland should probably be had?

    He has respect for the Motherland, a man wrote the truth. I will say more. The education system, and the entire system of our state, is not able to solve these problems and deal with such challenges. The social divide is crazy. A simple example, what is the salary of hard workers and white-collar workers standing above him? Here is the answer! Theft is universal, and everywhere. What is it worth, who will be worth all this, with whom is it all worth ??? yes
    1. TermNachTer
      TermNachTer 10 May 2018 08: 51
      +2
      I strongly recommend that you take an interest in the US education system. Not the one for the rich like Groton or Sidwell, but for ordinary citizens. Then the Russian system will seem fantastic to you.
      1. Cherry Nine
        Cherry Nine 10 May 2018 21: 33
        0
        Quote: TermNachTER
        I strongly recommend that you take an interest in the US education system

        Are you talking about school education? And what's interesting? PISA in the third ten, natural science is slightly better than in Russia, mathematics is somewhat worse. At the same time, at the International Mathematical Olympiad, Russia was higher than the United States for the last time in 2010 (2 and 3 places, respectively), in 2017 the USA was 4th (for the first time since 2010, not in the top three), Russia was 11th (never since 2010 was in the top three).
        Anything else to see?
        1. TermNachTer
          TermNachTer 11 May 2018 18: 34
          0
          Yeah, as a black man comes out of school who can neither write nor read. Only drug money can count
          1. Cherry Nine
            Cherry Nine 11 May 2018 23: 00
            +1
            Well, every African American after school can:
            1. Play basketball.
            2. Play the bass.
            3. Read gansta rap.
            4. To act in x-video.
            5. Go charging to Abrams.
            6. To sue the whites.
            7. Sit on benefits.

            There is also the "president of the US" branch, but there you need to go to school in Indonesia.

            Although, in principle, what is there is quite normal.
  37. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 10 May 2018 11: 15
    +3
    Syria has shown that if the state conducts active operations beyond its borders, then yes. Are needed.
    Of course, if “there is no money, but you are holding on,” then it is quite possible to get along with the rented dry cargo ships and rollers. Funny, of course, but what to do?
    “Dear, we are arranging a war here, give a dozen barges for hire ...”

    Just Syria has shown that the state in such situations needs its own merchant fleet more. And better - the Sea Transport Command with the same dry cargo ships and rollers. Not rented (everyone remembers why they had to organize a “Syrian express”), but their own - under the flag of auxiliary vessels of the Navy.
    The BDKs for such transportations are redundant - transportations go between equipped ports, and the landing capabilities of the BDKs remain unclaimed. But the cargo capacity of the BDK is insufficient.
    To use BDK on the Syrian route is to carry potatoes to the BMP. This measure was forced - due to the lack of the fleet of those same fleet.
    By the way, the situation "Dear, we are organizing a war here, give a dozen barges for rent"in the old days was called Operation Anadyr. smile
    But frigates, corvettes - alas. They stand. Without engines. And they will stand for a very long time.

    Frigates without engines will not stand for so long - the first experimental ship gas-turbine engine has been tested for them for a year now. This year they promised already serial. The problem of frigates is not in the engines, but in the SAM.
    And on the engines for corvettes you need to kick Kolomna - hard, long and thoughtful. For there are engines, but the fleet does not like their quality in any way.
    1. Yarhann
      Yarhann 13 May 2018 18: 49
      -1
      It was precisely noticed that the Navy needed its own merchant ships - albeit a little but needed. The Americans in Afghanistan and Iraq, too, not only delivered their equipment to the BTA, but hired ordinary carriers on an124.
      And UDCs should not be engaged in logistics, their task is to bring them once and then they will be engaged in support of both military and material and technical - that is, to play the role of a base standing on the roads or in the port. And transportation of fuels and lubricants, equipment and TP should be carried out by ordinary ships - as indeed it was during the Second World War.
  38. lopvlad
    lopvlad 10 May 2018 11: 50
    0
    Effective managers in the Central Bank will not give money to the fleet because the IMF has forbidden them. It is incorrect to compare with the United States because they can print money as much as they want without restriction, and before printing the amount in rubles, the Central Bank must sell this amount of dollars.
    So calm down and rejoice that we succeeded in pushing long-range cruise missiles into MRCs, otherwise it would be really bad.
    The old sailing crew needs to be lifted and mothballed from conservation, to see what else can go around the world and can be put into operation by cramming new weapons. If we solve the problem of production of marine engines, you can flush in the old building. Here at the Americans, half of the aircraft carriers built in the early 70's still in service, and we’ll be all right to write off ships of the 80s built for scrap.
  39. Peter Ivanov
    Peter Ivanov 10 May 2018 16: 55
    0
    In the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, for the capitalists? I WILL NOT GO BACK! He swore allegiance to the Soviet people and his government! Here we throw off the new "temporary" Yeltsin-Putin-bulk, return Socialism, the dictatorship of the proletariat and there is an incentive to get into operation!
    All Power to the Soviets! Happy Victory Day of the Soviet People over fascism!
  40. Paranoid50
    Paranoid50 11 May 2018 01: 04
    +2
    In the comments, everything was sorted "rib-wise". If you add - then only a clarification (a trifle, but ...)
    Baltic Shipyards built icebreakers and ... icebreakers. The exception is three frigates for the Indian Navy. All.
    I apologize, but the BALTIC FACTORY. And the shipyards ... and there "across the road" - the Admiralty, where, exactly, "bake" 636.3 and not only. Sometimes you pass along the Annunciation Bridge, and the soul rejoices at what he saw. yes good
  41. Valter1364
    Valter1364 13 May 2018 18: 06
    0
    Not quite correct reference to a series of tankers of the Crimea type.
    For several years he worked on the last of the series of the Sovetskaya Neft t / c.
    The steamers were raw. Steam engines on heavy fuel oil (fuel oil) consumed more than they transported crude oil. (a joke, but not far from reality).
    Vessels were very rolls, despite the innovative active pitching systems installed on board. They tried not to use them at all, because They did not work in antiphase, but vice versa. So I had to catch fridges and furniture torn from the bulkheads during bad weather.
    It is not strange, but we did not have experience in building large-tonnage vessels for the merchant fleet under the USSR.
    It is possible that this experience would certainly have appeared, had we continued to build them, but ...
    As for the construction of ships for the Navy, it was, and it was such that the ships built in those years in the USSR are still an unattainable role model.
    Our main trouble in the frames. First you need to re-educate several generations of specialists. Run them into the construction of a small fleet, and only then take on large-tonnage ships.
    There would be a willpower! And then there is power, and there is a will, but no strength-will.
    1. Yarhann
      Yarhann 13 May 2018 18: 44
      0
      Well here is quite understandable design miscalculations. In modern realities, this is minimized, thank God now everything is projected in digital form and everything is simulated in the same place - it is thanks to the rapid growth of computer technology that many countries, but rather, corporations and enterprises about which no one knew, now design and produce high-tech products. It is clear that not everyone produces it themselves but designs and produces to order.
      Therefore, there simply shouldn’t be problems in the project, but where to build and to whom the problem is there is no dock with the staff - everything went smoothly in Nikolaev.
  42. Yarhann
    Yarhann 13 May 2018 18: 17
    0
    GDKs like Grena are really old and meaningless - that's why they sculpted it for so long - there was a calculation on the Mistral, etc., etc.
    In modern realities, there is no need for an aircraft carrier and there is nowhere to build it - there is a need for a Ural-Mistral type UDC - creating a project is not a problem, there is also an air wing - the problem is only with the propulsion system - it all comes down to it. Well, and of course the place where to build it all - a dry dock of this size is also absent - in the union of all the giants stood in Nikolaev. You understand that you have to understand that the most difficult thing in this whole thing is the organization of such a dock with personnel, equipment, etc., etc. need to build it.
    Speaking of gas carriers - a similar dock is being built for them, that is, there will be personnel and equipment - well, creating a project is not a problem - it would be where to build and to whom. The docks that are built for gas carriers will certainly be able to build large ships, but I think there is a different opinion and orders for gas carriers will be decades ahead.
    So the main reason for the impossibility of building large vessels and ships is the lack of space for their construction - both in terms of equipment and in terms of personnel.
  43. Ironclad
    Ironclad 7 January 2019 22: 01
    -1
    There are no shipbuilders in Russia !!! There are managers of kravososa! And there’s nobody to build ships! I personally know a woman of 68 years was invited to repair a nuclear submarine in Vladik on cable wiring from Astrakhan! Not morons in education and certain high circles ????