From 15 to 30 percent. In the US, ordered the development of a "lightweight" cartridge .50 BMG caliber

The command of the US Marine Corps intends to adopt lighter machine-gun ammunition, reports "Warspot" with reference to the portal businessinsider.com.

KMP has requested the possibility of modifying M33 ammunition in a DODIC A555 configuration (.50 BMG machine gun cartridges) to reduce 15% and 30% weight. To this end, a request for the creation of lighter ammunition was sent to commercial companies, and the prepared proposals of the company should be submitted by June to 1.

However, some companies indicate that there is the possibility of further reducing the mass of ammunition. So, the Chesapeake Cartridge Corporation at SHOT Show 2018 claimed that its new cartridges using aluminum sleeves may be half lighter than their brass counterparts. PCP Ammunition manufactures rifle cartridges with plastic sleeves, which gives weight reduction of 30%.

The bullet of the .50 BMG cartridge weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has energy in 15 – 20 kJ, which is five times larger than the Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm. The .50 BMG cartridge was created in 20-ies as an ammunition for the Browning M1921 heavy machine gun, and after the Second World War it was adopted as a standard ammunition in the armies of NATO member states.

Comments

[Ased]

Excuse me, but will this not affect ALL of his characteristics?

[Black_Vatnik]

It will tell, therefore, they will allocate money for the development, the developers will develop it, and then everyone will agree that the old cartridge is still good ... de jure, the work has been done, the budgets are spent, everyone is happy.

[Vard]

“A bullet of a .50 BMG cartridge weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of a Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber." Our bullet weighs 8 grams ... Or I don’t understand anything in physics ... or speed, and therefore the penetration rate of the American doesn’t go into any gate ...

[Ased]

I didn’t understand the comparison of 50 bgm and 7,62x39 calibers. Can we still put it with cannon calibers?

[Shurik70]

How can you compare the cartridge 12,7x99 and 7,62x39? The muzzle energy of the Russian 2A82-1A more than 20 MJ, which is more than 1000 times more than the cartridge .50 BMG

And when compared with the Soviet cartridge of 12,7 mm caliber, developed in the 30s, its energy is 17 042 J for a 48,3 g bullet and 18 537 J for a 59,2 g bullet. That is, they are approximately equal, although with the bulk of the Soviet bullet will fly further than NATO

[Mordvin 3]

So 50 BMG is 12,7x99 mm. What to compare it with the intermediate?

[Ased]

Quote: mordvin xnumx

So 50 BMG is 12,7x99 mm. What to compare it with the intermediate?

That's it. It’s like comparing a heavy boxing with a middle floor.

[tchoni]

If you look at American rifle forums, then, to your surprise, you will find that the intermediate cartridge 7.62x39 is considered there as a kind of "standard" in penetration into various obstacles. Why so - even kill - I don’t know. Maybe it went from Vietnam, maybe even why ... but, nevertheless, it is.

[ARES623]

Quote: tchoni

Why so - even kill - I don’t know. Maybe it went from Vietnam, maybe even why ... but, nevertheless, it is.

If they are accustomed to measuring ships with football fields, engineering and religious buildings with baseball courts, then God himself commanded to measure the penetrating ability to measure with the Soviet intermediate cartridge. They experience hostile relationships in the SI system, so simple universal meters, liters and kilograms are not about them.

[LSA57]

Quote: Vard

Or I don’t understand anything in physics ..

they have their own laws of physics
they have everything special that has no analogues

[Arakius]

Quote: Vard

“A bullet of a .50 BMG cartridge weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of a Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber." Our bullet weighs 8 grams ... Or I don’t understand anything in physics ... or speed, and therefore the penetration rate of the American doesn’t go into any gate ...

The energy is 7,62 × 39 - 2.2 kJ, which is not 5, but 7-9 times less than .50 BMG

And it is not clear why the heavy machine gun was compared with an intermediate caliber.

[Vanek]

Quote: Black_Jacket

budgets mastered, everyone is happy.

- Things are going. The office writes ...

Sweatshirt

[Ased]

The article somehow confused me.
Take our 12,7 × 108 cartridge and begin to “lighten” it with materials.
In my opinion will collapse most of the characteristics.

[Vanek]

Quote: ASed

In my opinion it will collapse

Not a fact.

ASh-12.

Although ...

[Ased]

Quote: Vanek

Not a fact. ASh-12.

FACT!
The weight depends on the weight, speed and all-all-all ....

[Vanek]

Quote: ASed

FACT!

I do not mind. I say - "though."

Yes. Yes, everything will change. It will be essentially a "different" cartridge. Hence all the consequences ...

If only:

Quote: Vanek

what? Recycling is not enough?

[Vanek]

Another aluminum sleeve ... For the first time, I actually hear ...

[Arakius]

From the weight of the sleeve? No, it does not. It will be easier to liner, not a bullet
And if an aluminum or plastic sleeve gives an obturation in the chamber no worse than brass, then the characteristics will not change

[Ased]

Excuse me from the material? And how will he "behave" during the shot?

[Arakius]

And how can he behave during a shot, except how to expand in the chamber under gas pressure? If the material is plastic (like brass) and the bullet is put into the sleeve qualitatively, then there will be no deterioration in the ballistic characteristics of the bullet.

Another thing is the operational characteristics of weapons. How durable the liner will be made of aluminum or plastic, how corrosion-resistant, how much it will be possible to reduce roughness on its surface (to reduce friction in the chamber and the possibility of rupture of the liner) - this is the most interesting. These characteristics should be no worse than brass, otherwise there is no sense in such a sleeve

[Ased]

And in the machine, the gas pressure will remain the same? And the dirtiness? And the resistance of structures? ETS.
I can continue.
You do not understand - physics has changed - mutability of a LOT of data!

[Arakius]

Quote: ASed

And in the machine, the gas pressure will remain the same? And the dirtiness? And the resistance of structures? ETS.
I can continue.
You do not understand - physics has changed - mutability of a LOT of data!

What makes you think that gas pressure, etc. will change? Give arguments please

[LSA57]

Quote: ASed

Take our 12,7 × 108 cartridge and begin to “lighten” it with materials.

Well, let's say they’re not going to lighten the cartridge itself

So, Chesapeake Cartridge Corporation at the SHOT Show 2018 announced that its new cartridges using aluminum sleeves may be half lighter than their brass counterparts

[Ased]

Yes, even if they make paper ones, the physics of the process will change.

PS Again - strange ideas from the United States that introduce additional taxes on the import of aluminum into the country?

[tchoni]

Quote: ASed

Take our 12,7 × 108 cartridge and begin to “lighten” it with materials.
In my opinion, most of the characteristics will collapse.

You note that they want to lighten only the sleeve (this is about half the weight of the cartridge, or even all 70%. For different ammunition - differently. And it is quite possible to do this without reducing or changing the energy characteristics of the cartridge.

[Ased]

I actually write about the liner.
Or do you think that changing the material will not change anything?

[tchoni]

Quote: ASed

I actually write about the liner.
Or do you think that changing the material will not change anything?

And what should change? The powder charge will remain the same. If the abstraction does not deteriorate, then almost nothing will change. The weight of the sleeve compared with the weight of the moving parts of the bolt group is miserable interest. So this will not affect much)

[tchoni]

Quote: ASed

I actually write about the liner.
Or do you think that changing the material will not change anything?

For example, from a semiautomatic device, the saiga shot both with a plastic sleeve and a copper one. No big difference.

[adma]

Quote: ASed

Take our 12,7 × 108 cartridge and begin to “lighten” it with materials.

So it has already been done. The brass sleeve was replaced with steel. True, modernization was not done to lighten the weight but the price.

[adma]

Not necessary. The use of modern materials in the production of cartridges, new gunpowder, which allows to develop the same initial velocity of the bullet, but with less weight, will reduce the weight of the cartridge.

[Ased]

Quote: adma

Not necessary. The use of modern materials in the production of cartridges, new gunpowder, which allows to develop the same initial velocity of the bullet, but with less weight, will reduce the weight of the cartridge.

Here is the WHOLE cartridge and has changed. Production, mining, cost, factories, etc.

[Vanek]

what? Recycling is not enough?

[Mazut.]

7.62 ... This is death to you all, the walking dead!

[Tank hard]

They want to remake the Browning M1921 in "manual"?)))

[sabakina]

The bullet .50 BMG cartridge weighs from 40 to 50 g and when fired has energy in 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than the Soviet intermediate ammunition caliber 7,62 × 39 mm.

I do not understand something. Taken from the wiki.

7,62 PS (GAU Index - 57-N-231) - cartridge with a bullet PS with a steel core
The mass of the cartridge, g - 16,5
Bullet weight, g - 7,9
Bullet length, mm - 26,8
Muzzle velocity, m / s - 710-725 (automatic machine gun)
Muzzle energy of a bullet, J - 1990-2080 (AKM submachine gun)
The steel sleeve has a length of 38,5 mm.

[Nikolaevich I]

Well, at least by the end of the “note” it became clear that we were talking about lightweight sleeves, and not “shortening” the cartridge (s) according to the Russian example (cartridge: 12,7 x 55 mm) ....

[K-50]

The .50 BMG cartridge bullet weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of the Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber.

It is strange to compare cartridges that differ almost two times only in caliber.
They would take and compare with our 12,7 * 108 cartridge or with 14,5 mm.

[LSA57]

Quote: K-50

They would take and compare with our 12,7 * 108 cartridge or with 14,5 mm.

or pistol cartridge with a howitzer shell

[family tree]

Here is such garbage. Ammo is very small, few and so on.
Well, there are always a few of them when there is no walkie-talkie, communication and channels to contact mortars, artillery and aviation, especially when you know them, drank vodka and you all realized that you are one.
First, the connection, and there it will suit 7,62x39. Well, 7,62x54, more of these, greedy me

[Mountain shooter]

In short, we expect aluminum alloy sleeves. This is normal. During the war, the Germans developed such air guns. And the Americans have their seven-barreled for "Warthog."

[viktor.]

The .50 BMG cartridge bullet weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of the Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber. An interesting direct comparison of 7,62 * 39 with 12,7 * 99 at 7.62 and the bullet is five times lighter.

[Donald72]

In Russia there is a special cartridge 12.7, with a short bullet and a sleeve. The sniper complex, if I’m not mistaken, a shaft and an automatic machine for special imitations. The plane can’t be shot down, but the bulletproof vest is easily full of holes and does not freeze the wounded.

[Doliva63]

Quote: Donald72

In Russia there is a special cartridge 12.7, with a short bullet and a sleeve. The sniper complex, if I’m not mistaken, a shaft and an automatic machine for special imitations. The plane can’t be shot down, but the bulletproof vest is easily full of holes and does not freeze the wounded.

Something in memory Shaft and Vintorez 9 mm., Not?

[family tree]

9mm. 12,7 on anti-snipers. Although, this is literature. 82 and 120 mm will be more effective, and 2A46 on a straight line, any anti-snaps OFSom, like a bull turtle

[Fedor egoist]

A bunch of terry sofa "experts." Comments, as if not on VO, but on VK I am ... Dumb nonsense, ignorance of equipment and illiteracy.
The post does not need comments.

[sabakina]

If special, why don't you fend off dilettans?

[Tank hard]

Such a surname .., knows, but will not share.))

[AID.S]

Quote: sabakina

If special, why don't you fend off dilettans?

He gave a non-disclosure subscription ... and so said too much .....

[family tree]

Quote: sabakina

If special, why don't you fend off dilettans?

Fall to their level? Now in LANs, and then aviation and artillery are playing the piano. The task of the infantry is to save the corrector and clear the territory.
AK-74, for this, is even an excess.
But let it be. Because of idiots, there is always a place in life for a feat, instead of a dumb, routine, by technology, although also, the working day is not standardized and the weekend can be

[Tank hard]

Quote: perepilka

The post does not need comments

Quote: perepilka

perepilka (Vladimir) Today, 20:49 ↑
Quote: sabakina
If special, why don't you fend off dilettans?
Fall to their level?

The Olympians ...

[Fedor egoist]

Quote: sabakina

If special, why don't you fend off dilettans?

Quote: Tank Hard

Such a surname .., knows, but will not share.))

:))
Okay, I’ll comment.
1. Comparison in the text of the 12,7x99mm NATO post with the Russian intermediate cartridge 7,62x39mm is foul nonsense, and it is completely unclear why this comparison is made at all. The post is about something else. After this passage, there was no longer any desire to comment on what was written.
2. Upset comments, where in different ways they began to compare the original NATO 12,7x99mm with anything: 7,62x39 / 7,62x54 / 9x39 / 12,7x55 / 12,7x108 ... didn’t miss anything? Moreover, when comparing the confusion TTX of cartridges, barrels and even the name of the weapon. I understand that I am not on the Hansa, but there should be minimal knowledge of the materiel. Although I saw some adequate comments, though not quite on the topic.
3. I remind you what the post is about. On facilitating the 12,7x99mm NATO cartridge with lighter materials used in the manufacture of liners. The bullet itself, like the powder mount, remain unchanged. The cartridge has a wide range (more than two dozen varieties), while the sleeve can be either brass or steel, aluminum and even plastic. If it makes sense to compare, it is the performance characteristics of a certain type of this cartridge (for example, M33), made in the variant with different types of cartridges. All other comparisons are meaningless by definition.
4. I believe that a change in the material from which the sleeve is made will affect (negatively) primarily the accuracy of firing at long distances. At short and medium distances this effect will be insignificant, so in this case, as well as in automatic shooting, this can be neglected. Considering that the weight of a portable / wearable ammunition is critical only for automatic weapons, I consider the lightening of the weight of machine-gun cartridges to be quite justified and promising. Match cartridges for long-range large-caliber sniper rifles will continue to be manufactured in a metal sleeve.

[Tank hard]

Here is such an answer to the plus with pleasure, people are all different, someone will read, draw conclusions, and will be grateful, sarcasm can also be appropriate, but it is better not "high." And on the Hansa, posts are generally not accepted to be read ...

[Donald72]

I apologize not for the shaft but the exhaust.

[faterdom]

Chesapeake Cartridge at the 2018 SHOT Show announced that its new cartridges using aluminum sleeves could be half as light as their brass counterparts.

That's who wants to help Deripaska!

[SCHMEL]

new cartridges using aluminum sleeves may be half lighter than their brass counterparts. PCP Ammunition produces rifle cartridges with plastic sleeves, resulting in a 30% weight reduction.

[Simargl]

The .50 BMG cartridge bullet weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of the Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber.

In fact, the difference is almost 10 times.
And compared with the "bullet" of the Yamato Group of Companies - 7,62 × 39 mm is nothing at all!

[andrewkor]

Compared 7,62 * 54 and 12,7 * 99, but how is 12,7 * 108?

[family tree]

Quote: andrewkor

Compared 7,62 * 54 and 12,7 * 99, but how is 12,7 * 108?

Why be modest, 14,5x114

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: perepilka

Why be modest ...

23x152

[family tree]

This is a cannon, and we are talking about machine guns
Well, Lana, the naval AK-130, ninety rounds per minute, not a queue. Who is bigger?

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: perepilka

This is a cannon, and we are talking about machine guns

Right I'm a bum

[family tree]

Quote: Golovan Jack

Right I'm a bum

It’s straight
Yes, our self-criticism ой

[Golovan Jack]

Quote: perepilka

It’s straight

Three answers: for sure, there is and is to blame

[family tree]

corrected.

[Vard]

I heard that work is underway to create shellless ammunition ... Perhaps this is more promising than making aluminum sleeves ...

[Tank hard]

The Fritzs even created ammunition and a rifle to it, but covered the subject, sort of because of financial problems.

[Non liberoid Russian]

most of the comments duplicate each other .... or have no special semantic load ... you can immediately see who is trying to analyze, and who is simply fasting for the sake of fasting, in order to quickly achieve the marshal's epaulets to amuse his vanity

[Tank hard]

Quote: Fedor Egoist

Fedor Egoist (Fedor) Yesterday, 16:36
A bunch of terry sofa "experts." Comments, as if not on VO, but on VK I am ... Dumb nonsense, ignorance of equipment and illiteracy.
The post does not need comments

In principle, he answered, though, um .., somewhat high ... And what is the semantic load carries your comment?

[Non liberoid Russian]

well, yours definitely confirms the last part of my comment

[Tank hard]

And I do not pretend.

[Fedor egoist]

Quote: Tank Hard

In principle, he replied, though, um .., somewhat high ...

At the request of the workers, he expanded his “arrogant” comment a little)

[Kerensky]

You can play, you can ... With packaging. Remember the drive from the PD. How did all this look ?! Three discs in a box with a wire handle. The ratio of the mass of the bullet to the packaging is monstrous!

[gromoboj]

“A bullet of a .50 BMG cartridge weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of a Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber."
What is this for? Can compare with a cartridge from the DShK?

[Chever]

The .50 BMG cartridge bullet weighs from 40 to 50 g and, when fired, has an energy of 15–20 kJ, which is five times more than that of the Soviet intermediate ammunition of 7,62 × 39 mm caliber.

What kind of traveler managed to compare these cartridges?