Military Review

How to cheapen F-35? In the US, break their heads

153
In the US, they are concerned about reducing the cost of maintenance for the F-35. Costs are becoming exorbitant even for the astronomical US military budget.


The exorbitant amount of expenses, which is formed in the modern version of maintenance, is connected, according to American experts, with the lack of software that would automatically tell the manufacturer that the maintenance time is already suitable.

Former head of the US Department of Defense's strategic development department, William Roper, who in the United States has made a name for himself in introducing innovative approaches to solving various technical problems, offers to invest in software development.

From his statement:
Many security problems will be solved if the software is done correctly, because preventive maintenance is largely due to software. And supply chain management occurs through software. In many ways, all this is similar to the domino principle. Only a predictive approach will ultimately help to build a chain so that it will reduce the overall maintenance costs of F-35. This will save both time and money.


Roper notes that, ideally, an artificial intelligence (AI) should follow the technical condition of a “smart” fighter. It is AI that is the cornerstone of the entire program.

So far, we have managed to reduce the cost of the F-35 pilot’s helmet. According to the latest data, its cost has decreased from the initial $ 700 thousand to approximately half a million dollars.

How to cheapen F-35? In the US, break their heads


Now the program of modernization of management software - C2D2 (Continuous Capability Development and Delivery) is being implemented. The program should provide an account of options for the operation of the aircraft, the nature of the use of its weapons, engine operating modes. She also in automatic mode should allow in advance to make a signal about the order of those or other spare parts.

Not so long ago, the situation boiled down to the fact that one of the F-35B parts had to be printed on an 3D printer in order not to waste time and money on deliveries through a very complex logistics system operating in the USA today.
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  1. Thrall
    Thrall April 30 2018 18: 45
    +17
    Increase the percentage of plywood in it smile
    1. Vard
      Vard April 30 2018 18: 47
      +4
      Throw it into the hangar ... cover it and once a month ... pick up a hair dryer, turn it on and direct it onto the face of another person, who is portraying a motorcycle ride, growls ... the principle was understood ... that's the same thing ...
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 April 30 2018 18: 55
        +4
        How to cheapen F-35? In the US, break their heads

        It is very simple: to deliver these planes in a disassembled form - like a DIY constructor, but without an assembly description.
      2. Hire
        Hire April 30 2018 18: 59
        +10
        As I understand it, they want to fire technical staff and save on their payroll. laughing And all the business. And how many clever words he said ...
      3. Hire
        Hire April 30 2018 20: 21
        +7
        Quote: Vard
        pick up a hair dryer, turn it on and direct it to the face of another person

        My building hair dryer gives an output of 600 degrees. laughing Can I use it?
    2. Lord of the Sith
      Lord of the Sith April 30 2018 19: 05
      +14
      Apparently in the USA, read my last comment:
      As you know, the average flight time per year is 300 hours in NATO countries and their allies. It gradually decreased from 420 to 200. There were several articles on this subject. In general, an AS pilot or sniper should have a flying time of up to 1000 hours at the end of the service. There have also been articles on this subject.
      And now we consider, for an hour of flight:
      F-16 - $ 22500 / hour
      F-18 - $ 24400 / hour
      F-22 - $ 68300 / hour
      F-35:
      in 2013 year $ 24000 / hour,
      in 2016 year $ 31000 / hour,
      in 2017 $ 45000 / hour,
      in 2018 year $ 50000 / hour.
      In other words, they had a decline from the 80s to 2000 from 420 to 200 hours a year. The decrease is due to the lack of tasks and the high cost of maintenance, and small military budgets. And this at a cost in the USA of $ 22500 / hour for F-16, F-18 aircraft, in Europe I think cheaper, due to lower fuel costs and salaries.
      And now they are buying F-35 aircraft, all this for 5 years, that is, over the years huge sums have already been allocated from military budgets. Now, pilots on each should fly an average of 300 hours a year.
      For example, a NATO country purchased 100 F-35 units. We multiply this by the number of pilots, it is quite possible that not one, but 2-3 pilots are assigned to each machine, and it will be so, since there are many pilots, and there are not enough planes, we multiply by the average number of hours and the cost of an hour.
      So consider: 100 F-35 x 2 pilots x 300 hours x $ 50000 / hour = $ 3.
      Perhaps in Europe, the cost of an hour is cheaper. Of course, maybe a little less or a bit more planes, one pilot, not two or three, and maybe not 300, but 200 hours.
      All the same $ 2–3 billion a year only on these aircraft and only the cost of the Air Force. And there are other fighters, tankers, attack aircraft, bombers, AWACS, transporters. In general, the F-35 is a vacuum cleaner for the military budgets of NATO countries and their allies.
      1. Vard
        Vard April 30 2018 19: 26
        +26
        Those guys who invented the Yak-141 and did not suspect that this aircraft had such destructive power ... so no one was able to undermine the defense of the west ...
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 30 2018 21: 11
          +10
          Yakovlevites - respect and thanks from the Israeli Air Force good as the creators of a great concept.
          Yak-141 failed to fight, but his grandson F-35, began a glorious fighting career.
          1. Lerych
            Lerych April 30 2018 21: 36
            +10
            What is your career? Grandson has not fought yet. How many f-35 shot down opponents in a real battle? Shot from behind a mound? From Lebanon. Enlighten ... Qassam often shoot?
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 30 2018 22: 13
              +2
              He is a fighter-bomber by definition. He had no air battles yet
              in the absence of enemy aircraft, and he carried out several bombing attacks on Iranian facilities in Syria. Apart from reconnaissance flights in the rear of the enemy.
              1. helmi8
                helmi8 April 30 2018 22: 31
                +9
                Quote: voyaka uh
                He is a fighter-bomber by definition.

                belay what What is it like? Formula 1 car is it a truck? Original ...
              2. dvina71
                dvina71 1 May 2018 00: 34
                +3
                Quote: voyaka uh
                and he carried out several bombing attacks on Iran’s facilities in Syria.

                Iran? And how did he get there? With hanging tanks? Or with refueling? And nobody noticed this?
                I'm not talking about the fact that the signature and f22 and f35 are registered in the same Iranian S-300
                1. omit
                  omit 1 May 2018 18: 25
                  0
                  dvina71
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  and he carried out several bombing attacks on Iran’s facilities in Syria.
                  Iran? And how did he get there?
                  Daragoi, Panymaesh, Iran’s facilities in Syria, right? Syria is close, yes? Objects in Syria, yes?
              3. vovanpain
                vovanpain 1 May 2018 05: 06
                +3
                Quote: voyaka uh
                He had no air battles yet

                As it was not Alexei Batkovich fellow The US defense budget was bombed and exterminated notably, now it’s yours. laughing hi
              4. 72jora72
                72jora72 1 May 2018 06: 26
                +2
                He is a fighter-bomber by definition.
                It sounds like a disinterested Jew.
          2. sabakina
            sabakina April 30 2018 22: 58
            +8
            Quote: voyaka uh
            Yak-141 failed to fight, but his grandson F-35,
            Listen, relative, drive the ruble! You haven’t met your great-grandson ... laughing
          3. alexnmv5
            alexnmv5 1 May 2018 00: 48
            0
            Aw, wake up. You either sleep or rave.
      2. papas-57
        papas-57 April 30 2018 20: 03
        +3
        "The decrease is due to the lack of tasks and the high cost of maintenance, and small military budgets." And you can in more detail about the small military budget. Or I missed something. Is 700 billion not enough? What, nothing planned for the Air Force?
        1. Lord of the Sith
          Lord of the Sith April 30 2018 20: 28
          +2
          Out of 700 billion, or rather, out of 711 billion, only 56 billion (8%) are spent on modernization and the purchase of new equipment. Everything else goes to the payment of insurance, pensions to old-timers, the payment of salaries to employees, rental and repair of bases, the purchase of fuel and lubricants.
          1. Conserp
            Conserp 1 May 2018 10: 55
            +1
            You forgot about buying regular nuts at $ 2000 apiece.
            1. Lord of the Sith
              Lord of the Sith 1 May 2018 12: 27
              0
              Right! I painted it so rudely. Of those 56 billion, I drank this one.
              1. Conserp
                Conserp 1 May 2018 13: 01
                +2
                To feel, here is the "announce the entire list":


                $ 74165 - aluminum stepladder
                $ 7622 - coffee maker
                $ 640 - plastic toilet seat
                $ 659 - ashtray
                $ 2043 - nut
                $ 387 - washer
                $ 37 - screw
                $ 2228 - adjustable wrench
                $ 748 - pliers
                $ 469 - wrench
                $ 437 - roulette
                $ 435 - hammer
                $ 285 - screwdriver
                $ 214 - flashlight

                It was in the early 1980s, prices in the then dollars excluding inflation
                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 1 May 2018 13: 08
                  0
                  Quote: Conserp
                  $ 74165 - aluminum stepladder

                  And definitely not gold, huh?
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 30 2018 21: 07
        +6

        "Anyway, in the year 2-3 billion. $ Only for these aircraft" ////

        So what? One successful military operation involving these aircraft pays for all costs.
        They flew to Syria. Banged warehouse with 200 Iranian BR. Calculate the cost of these missiles, the cost of damage from these missiles if they are used, the cost of missile defense if launched to intercept these missiles. And here is the balance: all the costs of the F-35 pay off.
        1. kventinasd
          kventinasd April 30 2018 21: 32
          +12
          They flew to Syria. Banged warehouse with 200 Iranian BR.

          At Poplar or Yars, the efficiency is even better. He will fly to one of the countries of the American litter, and there are no bases, no Fu-35, and there is no such country at all. laughing
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 30 2018 22: 18
            +1
            And who is arguing? ICBMs with nuclear weapons are very effective. Therefore, Russia does not spare funds for their maintenance and modernization.
            We also have such, as we also understand their importance.
            This is the topic of the price and costs of the F-35. A good weapon pays for itself.
            1. sabakina
              sabakina April 30 2018 23: 02
              +7
              Quote: voyaka uh
              ICBMs with nuclear weapons are very effective. Therefore, Russia does not spare funds for their maintenance and modernization. We also have such, as we also understand their importance. .

              YOU HAVE NO YARS. NO POPULAR, NO SATAN! Keep quiet in the hole, maybe it’ll blow! am
              1. Mih1974
                Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 11
                0
                On the "maybe blows" they do not need to be silent, but - wear diapers repeat , and then the sound may not be, but it will stink strongly. laughing
              2. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh 1 May 2018 09: 56
                +1
                "YOU HAVE NO YARS. NO POPULAR, NO SATAN!" ///

                These - of course not. smile Where from? We have different names. But they also fly very far.
                1. Vanek
                  Vanek 1 May 2018 11: 55
                  +2
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  fly very far.


                  Where have you experienced them?

                  The whole country is two for three hours away.

                  In your understanding, how much is it?

                  So here. Far away is when in seven, dashes, eight time zones. From Petersburg to Khabarovsk. This is far from nature.

                  From Siberia to you hi
            2. Monos
              Monos 1 May 2018 00: 18
              +8
              Quote: voyaka uh
              A good weapon pays for itself.

              Hitler thought so too. As a result, his descendants already think differently.
            3. 72jora72
              72jora72 1 May 2018 06: 27
              0
              We also have such, as we also understand their importance.
              Do not flatter yourself, you do not have such.
        2. Mih1974
          Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 10
          +1
          You're so smart, yes, who told you? Come on, “shock” us with evidence of what a wonderful Fu 35 who “did what he wasn’t capable of deliberate F-15 " tongue laughing laughing
        3. 72jora72
          72jora72 1 May 2018 12: 04
          +1
          They flew to Syria. Banged warehouse with 200 Iranian BR.
          100500 BR.
      4. iwind
        iwind April 30 2018 22: 11
        +4
        Quote: Sith Lord
        F-35:
        in 2013 $ 24000 / hour,
        in 2016 $ 31000 / hour,
        in 2017 $ 45000 / hour,
        in 2018 $ 50000 / hour.

        the amount is not correct
      5. Dr. Hub
        Dr. Hub 1 May 2018 03: 40
        0
        Let them fly in China. It's cheap there)))
      6. nikoliski
        nikoliski 1 May 2018 05: 35
        -1
        interesting numbers, but how much does it cost for a Su-35?
        1. Lord of the Sith
          Lord of the Sith 1 May 2018 13: 20
          0
          Specifically in Syria, the flight hour of various combat aircraft costs from 4 million to 7 million, an average flight hour of 5 million rubles.
          1. nikoliski
            nikoliski 1 May 2018 13: 53
            +2
            Well, it turns out more expensive than the F-35 (they have 50k dollars equal to 3 million rubles) why then such a howl that it is so expensive to maintain ??
            1. ZVO
              ZVO 2 May 2018 21: 12
              +2
              Quote: nikoliski
              Well, it turns out more expensive than the F-35 (they have 50k dollars equal to 3 million rubles) why then such a howl that it is so expensive to maintain ??


              The howl comes from notebooks (perhaps very likely professionally paid) guardians of cheers-patriotism.
              They have a training manual - if you are looking on this site look at "F-35" you will see. that in every news - the same people write the same thing.
              They do not understand that a Su-35S class aircraft cannot cost less than $ 100 million.
              For the cost of metals, materials, machines - market and exchange. The same as in the whole world.
              And we have even more.
              For the state order system is legalized theft and cut.
              Due to the system of restrictions on the supply of "court companies".
              After all, there must be various tolerances. accreditations, accounts and turnover at certain banks - which you just won’t get.

              Factory social networks - in no way reduce the cost of an enterprise’s work costs.
              Labor productivity (whatever you say) is significantly lower here.

              The fact that the Su-57 will cost significantly for 150 million dollars is the same with reasonable people is not in doubt ...
              High technology and unit production can never be low at cost.
    3. papas-57
      papas-57 April 30 2018 19: 56
      +1
      Cut into components. And the headache will go away. It will be cheaper.
    4. svp67
      svp67 April 30 2018 19: 57
      0
      Quote: Thrall
      Increase the percentage of plywood in it

      Could be so. But it’s better to ask our Chubais ... he will help them
    5. Maz
      Maz April 30 2018 19: 58
      0
      Evil tongues slander that when attacking Syria, Israel used small-diameter planning bombs of the GBU-39 type with a small EPR to overcome air defense systems, which were released on the basis of 47 brigades. Most likely they were used with F35 ...
      1. Shahno
        Shahno April 30 2018 20: 03
        +4
        Here you are restless .... And who pierced?
        1. sabakina
          sabakina April 30 2018 23: 06
          +4
          Quote: Shahno
          Here you are restless .... And who pierced?

          Shahno. Now I’m thinking now, will they make a hole in your body or in a tunic?
    6. krops777
      krops777 1 May 2018 04: 50
      0
      Increase the percentage of plywood in it


      Thrall, this is not an option, the cost of plywood will also be prohibitive, it will also be made from special types of wood and with nano-spraying to reduce EPR. laughing the only way out is to close its production and it will still be expensive. laughing
  2. Observer2014
    Observer2014 April 30 2018 18: 47
    +11
    How to cheapen F-35? In the US, break their heads
    In China collect or Malaysia.
    1. Captain Pushkin
      Captain Pushkin April 30 2018 20: 42
      0
      Quote: Observer2014
      Not so long ago, the situation boiled down to the fact that one of the F-35B parts had to be printed on an 3D printer in order not to waste time and money on deliveries through a very complex logistics system operating in the USA today.

      "Not so long ago, the situation boiled down to the fact that one of the parts of the F-35B had to be printed on a 3D printer, so as not to waste time and money on deliveries through a very sophisticated logistics system operating in the USA today."

      You need to complete the entire F-35 with the pilot on a 3D printer to print and use cheaper markers for coloring.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 30 2018 21: 16
        +5
        "We need the entire F-35 assembly with the pilot to print on a 3D printer" ///

        This would really reduce the cost of production. 3-dimensional printing - a progressive modern method of manufacturing complex parts. It is actively implemented everywhere, as it reduces costs.
        1. sabakina
          sabakina April 30 2018 23: 08
          +4
          Warrior wow today is completely bad ...
          1. Korax71
            Korax71 1 May 2018 04: 25
            0
            Don't you think you are chasing him lol under each comment your can be found. I, of course, may be mistaken. but one gets the impression request answer honestly, do you have some feelings of affection for the inhabitants of the promised land?
        2. Vanek
          Vanek 1 May 2018 12: 00
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          3-dimensional printing


          It’s like non-alcoholic beer, a rubber woman, and so on.

          Ugh! Nasty already.
          1. ZVO
            ZVO 2 May 2018 21: 24
            0
            Quote: Vanek
            Quote: voyaka uh
            3-dimensional printing


            It’s like non-alcoholic beer, a rubber woman, and so on.

            Ugh! Nasty already.


            and you have to learn the economy ...
            Production.
            Not the most loaded, but spatially complex part, the customer estimates at $ 1000.
            Here you have the choice of manufacturing 1000 parts on time - 3 years.
            Those. 1 part per day.
            AND...
            Your choice
            1. - purchase of 5 coordinate machines for 3-6 million dollars with a capacity of 100 parts per day. Namely, only such machines are able to work with such dimensions and shape of the part.
            and Maintain both workers and warehouse, etc. during these 3 years.
            2. - purchase of a 3-D printer for 800 thousand dollars and have a maximum speed and 3pcs per day.
            The first option will not give any profit only losses.
            the second - will give a small but profit.

            Finding a "load" (third-party work and part-time work) for complex equipment is extremely problematic ... For a military man - she is.

            So who is disgusted then? Besides your words?
            1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 72jora72
      72jora72 1 May 2018 06: 29
      0
      In China collect or Malaysia.
      Then in India ...............
  3. sir_obs
    sir_obs April 30 2018 18: 48
    +10
    Yes, everything is simple, give one to China, and then buy weight on aliexpress
    1. Observer2014
      Observer2014 April 30 2018 18: 53
      +13
      sir_obs (Boris)
      Yes, everything is simple, give one to China, and then buy weight on aliexpress
      But with seven SIM cards. And rainbow-colored backlight laughing
    2. Sergey39
      Sergey39 April 30 2018 19: 38
      0
      Given the money spent on development, the price will still be sky-high. There is only one way. Release a few thousand pieces. is free. Then the average price will be acceptable
  4. dgonni
    dgonni April 30 2018 18: 49
    0
    I am stupidly interested in understanding TSa meaning topic! And the need for this topic to be in this thread!
    1. LMN
      LMN April 30 2018 18: 59
      +5
      Quote: dgonni
      I am stupidly interested in understanding TSa meaning topic! And the need for this topic to be in this thread!

      Apparently the core of the news is that in the USA they not only recognized that there are “some problems with the child prodigy”, but they themselves have really realized this and are looking for a way out.
      In other words, they went to bed .. well at this stage at least.
      1. AlNikolaich
        AlNikolaich April 30 2018 20: 25
        +6
        They crawled not at this stage, but with the whole program! Now that they have smoked so much money, there is not enough courage to close this disgrace forever! Well, the level of modern technology does not meet the requirements for this car, well, nothing! There is no Shvets, a reaper and an archer with a tune. Swung to the impossible, somehow embodied, immediately set up several hundred, but it is not a fountain. Neither this nor that.
        Morality bully the customer needs to adequately look at things, and correlate Wishlist with reality. And the performer must be put on the staff of the position of Chief Designer, as in the USSR. Who could immediately say, based on experience and capabilities:
        -Customer wants some kind of unknown hell, but we won’t do it! Want to get a plane, let's discuss those tasks, approve the budget and specifications!
        1. LMN
          LMN April 30 2018 20: 56
          +4
          Are these their problems? winked
        2. Orionvit
          Orionvit April 30 2018 23: 58
          +2
          Quote: AlNikolaich
          Want to get a plane, let's discuss those assignments,

          Sorry, but with the Union, at the main customer, the appetites were healthy. They wanted everything universal and everything more, though they did not spare money either. But here you are right, the chief designers of different design bureaus, if they took up the work, then the hot ardor of the generals from the Moscow Region was cooled. Anyway, you need to give them their due, they created unique models of weapons.
        3. ZVO
          ZVO 2 May 2018 21: 33
          +1
          Quote: AlNikolaich
          There is no Shvets, a reaper and an archer with a tune.

          They have had such a concept for many decades.
          Was the chtoli phantom bad in its universalism? Or Mirages?
          Or maybe F-16, F18, F-15 are not multifunctional? Well, the composition of avionics look at them ... What modes does the radar use, What kind of suspension can they carry?

          You would really read the materiel ...
  5. XXXIII
    XXXIII April 30 2018 18: 56
    +2
    How to cheapen F-35? In the US, break their heads
    The poverty of the military-industrial complex of the states is constantly pursuing, solutions will not be found in the near future .... lol
    1. Wendigo
      Wendigo April 30 2018 19: 07
      +5
      Quote: XXXIII
      The poverty of the military-industrial complex of the states is constantly pursuing, solutions will not be found in the near future ....

      The price of the 35th is already lower than that of f 16. It remains only to fix the case with the service staff.
      The "no-needFU35" (according to the Uryakalok) has long exceeded orders for 3k, and even the Indians fled from the "unavailable analogs" of 50 tons.
      1. Pete mitchell
        Pete mitchell April 30 2018 19: 19
        +8
        Quote: Wendigo
        The price of the 35th is already lower than that of f 16
        And who reported this to you? Announce please. That's when his fly away cost reaches the one that was laid down in the task, then we will applaud. Of course they will cope, but it will not reduce the price
        1. Wendigo
          Wendigo April 30 2018 20: 10
          +2
          So the Internet is full of information, and a lot has been written about this on this site.
          The price tag on f 35 starting from 2019 is exactly 85 ml.
          1. Pete mitchell
            Pete mitchell April 30 2018 21: 56
            +7
            Quote: Wendigo
            .. starting from 2019 ..

            In the words of the cartoon hero who my children watch: the Internet does not lie. Po 85 I don’t remember, I probably missed it, they fight for 100. But the potential for advertising is behind ..
            1. Mih1974
              Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 20
              +3
              It was already about 85, but not for the plane, but for the glider, without engines and even heaps of everything. Moreover, as some here have already guessed, this is a "pure" price without any additions and bookmarks for research and development. That is - ALL development, refinement of the USA agree to take over, if only to bring in this shit. But they also themselves admitted that of the hundreds of riveted Fu-35s, more than half are unsuitable for use. Already - they refused to write off the A-10, already many customers have partially or completely refused the aircraft. tongue
          2. Conserp
            Conserp 1 May 2018 11: 28
            0
            Quote: Wendigo
            So the Internet is full of information, and a lot has been written about this on this site.
            The price tag on f 35 starting from 2019 is exactly 85 ml.

            What else remains pukanofakelny, except to lie?

            Cost per unit, in millions of dollars, from this year’s budget:

            F-35A
            PRIOR - 158.5
            FY2017 - 106.1
            FY2018 - 107.6
            FY2019 - 101.4
            FY2020 - 100.6
            FY2021 - 101.8
            FY2022 - 101.6
            FY2023 - 99.7

            F-35B
            PRIOR - 193.7
            FY2017 - 139.2
            FY2018 - 131.6
            FY2019 - 131.8
            FY2020 - 135.0
            FY2021 - 132.9
            FY2022 - 133.3
            FY2023 - 135.8

            F-35C
            PRIOR - 221.5
            FY2017 - 170.1
            FY2018 - 165.8
            FY2019 - 149.0
            FY2020 - 121.2
            FY2021 - 116.4
            FY2022 - 123.5
            FY2023 - 123.9
            1. NN52
              NN52 1 May 2018 12: 42
              0
              Weak prices are .....
              1. Conserp
                Conserp 1 May 2018 15: 25
                +2
                And these are, after all, domestic prices for the US Armed Forces, excluding development costs.

                And after all, we need spare parts (vertical engine - 28 million pieces!) And maintenance.

                Add to this the cost of finishing previously released raw (half of which cannot even fly). Even after improvements, previously released ones and those that are now being released will remain raw, not suitable for state testing, and will inevitably require further capital investments to finish beyond the price tag.
              2. Pete mitchell
                Pete mitchell 1 May 2018 20: 43
                +2
                Quote: NN52
                Weak prices are .....

                And this is just a glider, engines separately, maintenance separately, and you need to bring it to mind. It’s good when there is a printing press ..
                1. Conserp
                  Conserp 1 May 2018 22: 34
                  0
                  Specifically, these numbers are fully equipped aircraft. But without R&D.
                  1. iwind
                    iwind 1 May 2018 23: 33
                    +1
                    Quote: Conserp
                    Specifically, these numbers are fully equipped aircraft. But without R&D.

                    And they didn’t mention that it was with Support and even with Full Mission Simulators?
                    1. Conserp
                      Conserp 2 May 2018 00: 45
                      0
                      Quote: iwind
                      And they didn’t mention that it was with Support and even with Full Mission Simulators?

                      A set of required accessories and spare parts for each aircraft would be strange not to include in the price.
                      The Air Force simulators last bought 8 pieces in 2017 and that’s it.
                      1. iwind
                        iwind 2 May 2018 00: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Conserp
                        Quote: iwind
                        And they didn’t mention that it was with Support and even with Full Mission Simulators?

                        A set of required accessories and spare parts for each aircraft would be strange not to include in the price.
                        The Air Force simulators last bought 8 pieces in 2017 and that’s it.

                        And no one includes them.

                        Can you give an example where they are included in the price?

                        Or Peculiar Training Equipment?
                        101 is not very expensive for such a configuration. everything below Support - Support End Item Cost in 99 cases is not included in the price of the aircraft.
                        The aircraft itself is a Non-Recurring Cost (without the expense of simultaneous expenses).
                        namely
                        airframe
                        CFE Electronics
                        Engines / Eng ACC (†)
                        Ancillary equip
                    2. Conserp
                      Conserp 2 May 2018 10: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: iwind
                      And no one includes them.
                      Can you give an example where they are included in the price?

                      It is not true.
                      Usually, the price tag of any aircraft is considered very simple - divide the contract amount by the number of aircraft.

                      No one cares that simulators, test equipment, MGM, trolleys, stepladders, covers, plugs, tire sets and other consumables are included there and so on. Just because without all this, the operation of the aircraft is impossible.
                      1. ZVO
                        ZVO 2 May 2018 21: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Conserp
                        Quote: iwind
                        And no one includes them.
                        Can you give an example where they are included in the price?

                        It is not true.
                        Usually, the price tag of any aircraft is considered very simple - divide the contract amount by the number of aircraft.

                        No one cares that simulators, test equipment, MGM, trolleys, stepladders, covers, plugs, tire sets and other consumables are included there and so on. Just because without all this, the operation of the aircraft is impossible.


                        not complete truth
                        It all depends on the type of contract.
                        Either All In or Custom.
                        Parts of contracts may be in the form of dopnikov.
                        And may not be published.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
      2. LMN
        LMN April 30 2018 19: 25
        +7
        Quote: Wendigo
        Quote: XXXIII
        The poverty of the military-industrial complex of the states is constantly pursuing, solutions will not be found in the near future ....

        The price of the 35th is already lower than that of f 16. It remains only to fix the case with the service staff.
        The "no-needFU35" (according to the Uryakalok) has long exceeded orders for 3k, and even the Indians fled from the "unavailable analogs" of 50 tons.

        For starters, they would have to make ALL F-35 fly without problems.
        And then talk about cost reduction
        1. MadCat
          MadCat April 30 2018 19: 49
          +2
          Quote: LMN
          For starters, they would have to make ALL F-35 fly without problems.
          And then talk about cost reduction

          First, call me a plane that “Everything” flies without problems, laugh together.
          1. LMN
            LMN April 30 2018 20: 35
            +6


            This is the first link that came across. There are a lot of sources on the network. Everything, at least 95% was meant ..

            https://www.google.de/amp/s/topwar.ru/amp:134737-
            pentagon-polovina-f-35-ne-gotova-k-boyu.html
        2. XXXIII
          XXXIII April 30 2018 20: 04
          +3
          Quote: LMN
          For starters, they would have to make ALL F-35 fly without problems.
          And then talk about cost reduction

          So they are asking for different sauces of money, the options are the simplest and most primitive ....
          They lowered the price of f35, give us money for new developments ... We made f35 expensive, because it has no analogues .... etc. yes
        3. Conserp
          Conserp 1 May 2018 18: 51
          0
          Speaking of birds - F-16 is the same shamelessly advertised junk.

          Every eighth released - crashed.

          The plane has a cloud of structural and manufacturing defects.

          35% were written off without flying for 5 years.
          64% of aircraft did not live to be 10 years old.
          More than 80% did not survive to the mark of two decades. This is in the USA, with good service, and not with any Arabs and Pakistanis.
      3. XXXIII
        XXXIII April 30 2018 19: 59
        +2
        Quote: Wendigo
        The price of the 35th is already lower than that of f 16
        fool
        Unit cost
        F-16 $ 4,5 million (1975) $ 34 million F-16D Block 52
        F-35A: $ 83,4 million
        F-35B: $ 108,1 million
        F-35C: $ 93,3 million
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 30 2018 20: 21
          +3
          About like Rafal, Gripen, Typhoon. All of the modern western 4th generation pulls at 100 million. F-16s for Qatar were sold twice as low as 80 million.
          1. Captain Pushkin
            Captain Pushkin April 30 2018 20: 47
            +7
            Quote: voyaka uh
            About like Rafal, Gripen, Typhoon. All of the modern western 4th generation pulls at 100 million. F-16s for Qatar were sold twice as low as 80 million.

            The United States has exclusive prices for oil-producing Arabs, 2–2,5 times higher than for the rest.
        2. Vkd dvk
          Vkd dvk April 30 2018 20: 53
          +3
          Quote: XXXIII
          Quote: Wendigo
          The price of the 35th is already lower than that of f 16
          fool
          Unit cost
          F-16 $ 4,5 million (1975) $ 34 million F-16D Block 52
          F-35A: $ 83,4 million
          F-35B: $ 108,1 million
          F-35C: $ 93,3 million

          Yes, this is not the worst.
          They have long adapted to sell at almost cost, and by selling, and having bridled the buyer, they return the service staff a hundredfold. Full-time service, plus manufacturing, equals 480 million apiece.
          Exactly the same price is a piece of pure gold, equal in weight to this airplane.
          1. XXXIII
            XXXIII April 30 2018 21: 13
            +1
            Quote: Vkd dvk
            Exactly the same price is a piece of pure gold, equal in weight to this airplane.

            Here is the most interesting thing than paying, in dollars or gold, if in gold, then it's cool, if the Fed printed paper is full of shit .... laughing
            1. Vkd dvk
              Vkd dvk 2 May 2018 20: 31
              +1
              Quote: XXXIII
              Quote: Vkd dvk
              Exactly the same price is a piece of pure gold, equal in weight to this airplane.

              Here is the most interesting thing than paying, in dollars or gold, if in gold, then it's cool, if the Fed printed paper is full of shit .... laughing

              You are very mistaken. This is for the USA - the dollar is an empty piece of paper that can be printed as many as you like. But here any other country, buying in dollars, pays real money earned by its citizens. You do not know, apparently, the definition of what is MONEY. Economists say this is the equivalent of labor. So, in order to BUY dollars, any non-issuing country earns them by the labor of its citizens, that is, already REAL dollars, paying in their own currency. Or merchandise.
          2. Mih1974
            Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 26
            0
            The only problem is that if the Americans are stamping bucks and they generally have an "unlimited budget", then for the countries of buyers - no. So it turns out that even after buying “wooden F-35s, buyers will put them on joke due to lack of funds. Honor everyone who tries to sludge and have already sucked in the F-35 they’re used to living hearty and beautiful and don’t be forced to give them for any gadgets his "piece of butter" to Americans for servicing this shit. tongue good
            Why am I so sure - yes, because in the armies of Israel, Norway, Poland, etc. in addition to generals from the airline, there are plenty of other generals who also want a "piece of oil" repeat and they will obviously quietly strangle their aviators with the wording "here you have 2% of the budget and fly as you like" tongue
        3. Conserp
          Conserp 1 May 2018 11: 35
          0
          Quote: XXXIII
          F-35A: $ 83,4 million
          F-35B: $ 108,1 million
          F-35C: $ 93,3 million

          FY2019
          F-35A: 101.4 million
          F-35B: 131.8 million
          F-35C: 149.0 million

          See the source.

          The F-35B engine alone costs $ 28 million.
      4. Orionvit
        Orionvit 1 May 2018 00: 02
        +2
        Quote: Wendigo
        orders for 3k have been exceeded for a long time,

        American military equipment is bought only by US-dependent countries. Here, as in the old comedy, “And if they don’t take it, then turn off the gas”, in the sense they will cut sanctions. Both political and economic. So they take it, so it's not an indicator.
  6. Vlad Morozov
    Vlad Morozov April 30 2018 19: 04
    0
    This gadget on my bike just right!
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 30 2018 19: 07
    +1
    Bees versus honey? Lower maintenance costs ... I laugh. Why would they cut costs? Who needs this, neither to suppliers, nor to the warriors themselves !!!
    1. CAT BAIYUN
      CAT BAIYUN April 30 2018 19: 43
      +4
      Bees Against Honey

      Bees against honey can act only in one case (I think so), if they shine at the end of the performance an even larger piece of honey. Or are they just bees from another hive.
      I mean, software implementation (from development to real launch) has never been a super-cheap task ...
      So there is honey and there is a sickly ... But whether this will help all is another question.
    2. Orionvit
      Orionvit 1 May 2018 00: 11
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Lower maintenance costs ... I laugh

      This is of course interesting, but another thing is funny.
      the lack of software that could automatically tell the manufacturer that the maintenance time is right.
      A little magazine maintenance and routine work, weak to start? With dates, marks on the work done, with the signatures of the performers, with the dates of the next maintenance. Or have they entered the computer age in the state armies before they forgot what a pen and notebook are? And then they complain that something is constantly not working. Their brains do not work. I sometimes sincerely feel sorry for them.
  8. izya top
    izya top April 30 2018 19: 07
    +18
    when does the printing press overheat?
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 30 2018 21: 24
      +4
      Thanks to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Syrian air defenses were surprised to learn that they had shot down all of the American missiles. “We didn’t think that just shooting up we could bring down something,” one officer told a reporter.
      "But the Russians said that they had some kind of miracle on their first channel and, in general, glory be to Allah." smile
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII April 30 2018 21: 35
        +7
        Quote: voyaka uh
        "But the Russians said that they had some kind of miracle on their first channel and, in general, glory be to Allah."

        Yours do not cook noodles better ... yes
        Israelis alarmed by fake news of imminent war with Iran
        Hundreds of people managed to stir their friends and relatives with this alarming message, until Channel 10 denied the authenticity of the message.
        “For your information: this message is being distributed on social networks during these hours. We are talking about a fake, to which the news service of Channel 10 has nothing to do with it, ”said Channel 10 on Twitter.https://news.israelinfo.co.il/events/71918

        And immediately reassured the Jews, the war with Iran is postponed .... lol
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 30 2018 22: 20
          +3
          Yes, it happens with us, we drove this fake blizzard on a “vots-up” laughing
      2. kventinasd
        kventinasd April 30 2018 21: 40
        +4
        In your country with the name - "Middle East powder keg", apparently the media is quite a problem or Scotland is used to it. only yards to believe?
      3. helmi8
        helmi8 April 30 2018 22: 42
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        "We didn’t think that just shooting up we could bring down something," one officer told a reporter

        Well, if Trump called his fake news his media, then there is more confidence in Channel 1. And what, did the correspondents of your media appear in Syria? Or again from reliable sources from social networks? Or have White Helmets reported?
      4. sabakina
        sabakina April 30 2018 23: 15
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Thanks to the Russian Ministry of Defense, the Syrian air defenses were surprised to learn that they had shot down all of the American missiles. “We didn’t think that just shooting up we could bring down something,” one officer told a reporter.
        "But the Russians said that they had some kind of miracle on their first channel and, in general, glory be to Allah." smile

        Firstly, what the hell out of our Air Defense Forces. Secondly, we, Allah, the Lord and Buddha are against yours ... like him .... In short, you will be waist-high!
      5. Mih1974
        Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 30
        0
        Yes, yes, tell it to two dead Turkish pilots who also "thought that there was no serious Syrian air defense" before the war tongue and then the scraps of a riddled plane at sea were picked up. You have just been shown that the "old" Syrian air defense "can see" if in the sky (by chance repeat ) hangs A-50 good . And be rude - we will teach Syrian pilots to launch nuclear missiles good , well, how Americans teach European.
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 2 May 2018 21: 51
          +1
          Quote: Mih1974
          Yes, yes, tell it to two dead Turkish pilots who also "thought that there was no serious Syrian air defense" before the war tongue and then the scraps of a riddled plane at sea were picked up. You have just been shown that the "old" Syrian air defense "can see" if in the sky (by chance repeat ) hangs A-50 good . And be rude - we will teach Syrian pilots to launch nuclear missiles good , well, how Americans teach European.


          Hello dear friend ...
          If there is at least someone in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation with the same level of IQ as your Syrians will begin to teach nuclear weapons, then you will say goodbye to your mom and grandmother right away ..
          With a school teacher and classmates ...
          Say goodbye HERE ...
          For the nuclear scribe will come into this world very quickly.
          And the reason for this will be the person with your IQ like you ...

          But for some reason I’m sure that in our Mo, there are none.
          Therefore, none of the Russian military will ever give nuclear bombs or special knowledge to Arabs.
          For already wiser .. Since the 50s ...
          1. Arakius
            Arakius 3 May 2018 00: 42
            +1
            A man (judging by his nickname) is already 44 years old, and he argues at the level of a young boy. "and they are us - a thousand, a thousand, a thousand, and we them - a pysch, a pyshch, a pyshch and they flickered and fled, and we celebrate"
  9. taiga2018
    taiga2018 April 30 2018 19: 09
    +1
    then they’ve “rolled out” so many ideas at once, now the Americans are reading comments and choosing the best option ...
    1. Mih1974
      Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 33
      0
      The "best" - all applications and training F-35 to shoot immediately in Hollywood. good There you will at least have an avatar, even a death star. )))
  10. Blackbeard
    Blackbeard April 30 2018 19: 14
    +7
    let's wish the usa bigger F-35 and more expensive together fellow wassat
  11. vovashturman
    vovashturman April 30 2018 19: 20
    +4
    I wouldn’t like to fight in the air with such a bucket on my head ....
  12. bald
    bald April 30 2018 19: 25
    +2
    In vain they voiced the cost of the helmet. lol East is a delicate matter.
    1. AlNikolaich
      AlNikolaich April 30 2018 20: 30
      0
      Nobody will buy an enthic hat for ent anymore ... Except for a penguin, you can’t use it anywhere, and so, in life, nobody needs a fuck. Even on a motorbike it won't go, the view is dumb ...
      1. bald
        bald April 30 2018 20: 47
        0
        The main thing is brilliant and prestigious. So you can exchange, for example, hostages.
  13. evil partisan
    evil partisan April 30 2018 19: 27
    +2
    Cheaper? Easy! Translate your penguin to gas! I give an idea for free yes .
  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. Filxnumx
        Filxnumx April 30 2018 19: 55
        +2
        Not otherwise. And along the way, the remnants of the brain spread.
        I for Samosad okremo: but they said to my mother: "Don’t download, you fool!"
    2. LMN
      LMN April 30 2018 19: 51
      +3
      Did the bottom break through? lol
      The head is weak apparently .. what How are you going to fight with Russia ?! request
      One scribbles on Twitter, the other like Putin, Mixer decided to talk from a position of strength, and here you are ..
  15. Gnefredov
    Gnefredov April 30 2018 19: 40
    +2
    Quote: Vard
    Those guys who invented the Yak-141 and did not suspect that this aircraft had such destructive power ... so no one was able to undermine the defense of the west ...

    Ah ha ha! You made my evening lol
    1. Spez
      Spez 1 May 2018 02: 01
      +1
      He posts this phrase on a carbon copy in all topics. The mantra is like that. True, it does not save you from hemorrhoids and bedsores ...
  16. Jack O'Neill
    Jack O'Neill April 30 2018 19: 43
    +2
    How to cheapen F-35?

    Today, is there an F-35A, in the 60 lyam area, with an engine? Where is cheaper then? Level F-16V will not take everything exactly if the current is not 35-like spread out the cakes.
    Of course, 35 should become the same 16, the same massive and universal.
    However, the Americans will find a way out, especially since the queue for 35 is not small. Here you want you do not want, and the price tag will fall.
    1. LMN
      LMN April 30 2018 21: 23
      +4
      Can you hear the list of queues?
      Not those who are being imposed
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 30 2018 22: 27
        +1
        And Germany will have to master the F-35. After decommissioning a tornado to stay with an aging Typhoon? Based on F-35 technologies, at least something can be learned to make your future development.
        1. Mih1974
          Mih1974 1 May 2018 03: 37
          +1
          Oh, oh, "poor" incapable, unarmed Germany, where would it be incapable without a Fu-35? crying laughing And let me ask - what phaloss is they F-35, with whom should they fight? With Poland, with France or Denmark, no no - with Luxembourg, yes yes Luxembourg without hundreds of F -35 can not be defeated laughing . Let and WHY Germany in general defeat someone, that in a hurry they can calmly develop their fighter no worse than the F-35 even by 2040, I can’t hear laughing laughing
        2. LMN
          LMN 1 May 2018 13: 33
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          And Germany will have to master the F-35. After decommissioning a tornado to stay with an aging Typhoon? Based on F-35 technologies, at least something can be learned to make your future development.

          This is still an unresolved issue on the F-35 for Germany.
    2. Conserp
      Conserp 1 May 2018 13: 10
      0
      Quote: Jack O'Neill
      Today, the F-35A is there, in the region of 60 lyam, it is with the engine?

      $ 101 lam

      This is in reality, and not in your world of rainbow fantasies and Ukrainian Wikipedia.
  17. adma
    adma April 30 2018 20: 00
    +3
    How to cheapen F-35?

    Transfer production to UAZ. wassat
    1. ZVO
      ZVO 2 May 2018 21: 54
      0
      Quote: adma
      How to cheapen F-35?

      Transfer production to UAZ. wassat

      At UAZ, why it will cost 240 ... And in it, as usual, everything will fall apart just in the parking lot ... not even on the go.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 2 May 2018 21: 59
        0
        Quote: ZVO
        And in it, as usual, everything will fall apart just in the parking lot ... not even on the move

        Here you are lying FSE. As it collected UAZ. They stuck a dvigun from the six, and how did he kindly go.
        1. ZVO
          ZVO 2 May 2018 22: 11
          0
          Quote: mordvin xnumx
          Quote: ZVO
          And in it, as usual, everything will fall apart just in the parking lot ... not even on the move

          Here you are lying FSE. As it collected UAZ. They stuck a dvigun from the six, and how did he kindly go.


          Well, yes.
          I have almost 100 UAZ Patriots in submission.
          Of course "affectionate."
          And I'm lying.
          Only here was it necessary to save the driver, whose pump pulley was falling apart for the sixth time, for some reason made of pressed powder, ala pieces of textolite, and not UAZ workers ...
          But it was in the GAZ-Sale region.
          And at a temperature of minus 48 ...

          And in my practice there were not one or ten such cases ...
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 2 May 2018 22: 47
            0
            Quote: ZVO
            pump pulley, for some reason made of pressed powder, ala pieces of textolite - I had, and not the UAZ workers ...

            But can I replace it?
            1. ZVO
              ZVO 3 May 2018 10: 14
              0
              Quote: mordvin xnumx
              Quote: ZVO
              pump pulley, for some reason made of pressed powder, ala pieces of textolite - I had, and not the UAZ workers ...

              But can I replace it?


              The one in the stores?
              So it is the same - powder-molded textolite ...
              I had a moment. a few months ago.
              150 km from Nyagan, a pulley bursts at one of the UAZ Patriots (the last time this pulley was changed on this car 2 months ago with belts).
              In the evening.
              We send him to help from Urai (for 360 kilometers) - another UAZ, which would be picked up on a trailer and dragged to "civilization".
              30 kilometers to the meeting point, the second UAZ pulley breaks (the pulley was also changed less than a month ago).
              And they both get up.
              No pulley - no pump - no heat.
              On the street minus 35.
              This is a common practice for UAZ.

              As a result, they found a solution in the form of aluminum pulleys of reduced diameter. for whom I traveled to the Urals.
              During maintenance - we change slowly on all machines.
              North he is so ...
              Freezing to death due to the stupid UAZ engineers is easy.
  18. Strashila
    Strashila April 30 2018 20: 15
    0
    Of course, it’s strong ... to remove all kickbacks to lobbyists from the cost ... but only who will vote for it.
  19. faterdom
    faterdom April 30 2018 20: 46
    +4
    I imagine arising during the flight in the displays of this wonderful hat for 700 thousand lines on a blue background: "Flying do not continued. Load update!"
    1. Spez
      Spez 1 May 2018 02: 03
      0
      "Continued in the second part ..."
  20. Vkd dvk
    Vkd dvk April 30 2018 20: 47
    +4
    Hockey helmet. And do not get closer to Russian closer than 400 km. And all will be well. I promise.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. APASUS
    APASUS April 30 2018 20: 55
    +4
    How to cheapen F-35? In the US, break their heads

    Cheaper F-35? IN THE USA ? This is such a bad American humor, cheap F-35. Only on a nearby branch did they tell how the American military bred suppliers of electric breast pumps for nursing mothers.
    And then the whole F-35
    For example, one of the suppliers sold the pump for $ 1400, although, according to the report of the inspector general, "the same milk pump can be bought on the open market for $ 192."
    1. XXXIII
      XXXIII April 30 2018 21: 38
      +1
      Quote: APASUS
      Cheaper F-35? IN THE USA ? This is such a bad American humor, cheap F-35. Only on a nearby branch did they tell how the American military bred suppliers of electric breast pumps for nursing mothers.
      And then the whole F-35

      The answer is simple, this F35 skimmer is still, American mothers said their word ... laughing
  23. Beltasir matyagu
    Beltasir matyagu April 30 2018 22: 46
    0
    They think about it at the R&D stage and not later.
  24. shuravi
    shuravi April 30 2018 23: 04
    +4
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Yes, it happens with us, we drove this fake blizzard on a “vots-up” laughing


    Sorry, Lesha, but in matters of aviation, you are a banal cheer patriot with zero knowledge. hi
    1. sabakina
      sabakina April 30 2018 23: 27
      +1
      Vladimir, I'm with you! I go to the left! (ps, I'm just left-handed repeat )
  25. Orionvit
    Orionvit April 30 2018 23: 48
    +2
    While it was possible to reduce the cost of the pilot's helmet F-35
    I remembered the old joke:
    A man runs around the station, asks everyone
    - Citizens, no one accidentally found a large bundle of money tied with a blue ribbon?
    Everyone shrugs. Then one comes out of the crowd and says
    - I didn’t see the money, so I found the ribbon.
    So with these, they squandered money for the plane, but found a ribbon. In the sense of a helmet cheapened. laughing
  26. Alberr
    Alberr 1 May 2018 00: 20
    +2
    No way, the generals and lobbyists of the Lokhid have kids, villas, yachts, etc., and the kids are all the same and that in a circle, no matter how trump the expenses increase, not only combat indicators, but also cottage towns ay beverly hills
  27. shadow
    shadow 1 May 2018 00: 55
    0
    Start buying Yak-141E
  28. Sergey Averchenkov
    Sergey Averchenkov 1 May 2018 04: 34
    0
    I can tell you how to reduce the cost - which up.
  29. gukoyan
    gukoyan 1 May 2018 06: 52
    +1
    How to reduce the cost?
    Yes, just do not produce it and that's it)
  30. viktor.
    viktor. 1 May 2018 08: 44
    +1
    The greatest scam of the century wassat The most interesting thing will be if some kind of C 200 fills it, in 2008 the crisis will seem like a misunderstanding wassat
  31. net0103net
    net0103net 1 May 2018 11: 09
    0
    Yes they rave. If you do it cheaper, it’s only worse. They are at a technological dead end.
    In general, you can make it cheaper - you need to remove all the electronics and avionics, instead of engines, insert solid fuel elements and make training F-35s straight-forward targets for their oblique Patriots, It will not work cheaply, but it will be much more useful)).
  32. Aandrewsir
    Aandrewsir 1 May 2018 13: 41
    0
    Whose heads are "breaking" in the United States?
  33. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 1 May 2018 18: 27
    0
    Quote: Vard
    Throw it into the hangar ... cover it and once a month ... pick up a hair dryer, turn it on and direct it onto the face of another person, who is portraying a motorcycle ride, growls ... the principle was understood ... that's the same thing ...

    The plans of the mattresses to collect 2473 aircraft and install missile defense systems on them. Plus sales all over the world. This is where the full question arises about the total cost of ownership ... laughing tongue wassat
  34. pafegosoff
    pafegosoff 1 May 2018 18: 48
    0
    30 million rubles for a helmet ... Here Shary told how much it is customary to detach to intermediaries in Ukraine ... 400% of the real value!
    It is clear from whom Ukraine takes an example: from the owners!
  35. Olegi1
    Olegi1 1 May 2018 20: 12
    +1
    The exorbitant amount of expenses, which is formed in the modern version of maintenance, is connected, according to American experts, with the lack of software that would automatically tell the manufacturer that the maintenance time is already suitable.


    I’m just crap ... All this logistics has been organized in the civil sector for 10-15 years already, I participated in it myself. The plane pulled up to the sleeve while unloading - loading passengers, all data is transmitted to the airline. There to transfer a little bit, the amount, in the worst case, a few megabytes. Status of systems, info about failures, info about planned replacement (resource development). This is quite a bit. The center plans everything, if you need to change something, the unit arrives at the right point, and there it is changed. Reflashing software is also not a problem, there are a lot of solutions. Even on tablets there is: a technician approaches the plane, communicates with him via WiFi, receives all the data, the necessary software is loaded onto the tablet, and from there onto the plane. All this has long existed and works. About security, too, of course, everything is thought out and everything is very tough (I won’t tell you the details, take my word for it). All this can be taken and delivered, solved all the logistics. Well, that’s unless you cut 100500 lemons on the invention of a bicycle ...
    1. Vkd dvk
      Vkd dvk 2 May 2018 23: 14
      +1
      Quote: Olegi1
      The exorbitant amount of expenses, which is formed in the modern version of maintenance, is connected, according to American experts, with the lack of software that would automatically tell the manufacturer that the maintenance time is already suitable.


      I’m just crap ... All this logistics has been organized in the civil sector for 10-15 years already, I participated in it myself. The plane pulled up to the sleeve while unloading - loading passengers, all data is transmitted to the airline. There to transfer a little bit, the amount, in the worst case, a few megabytes. Status of systems, info about failures, info about planned replacement (resource development). This is quite a bit. The center plans everything, if you need to change something, the unit arrives at the right point, and there it is changed. Reflashing software is also not a problem, there are a lot of solutions. Even on tablets there is: a technician approaches the plane, communicates with him via WiFi, receives all the data, the necessary software is loaded onto the tablet, and from there onto the plane. All this has long existed and works. About security, too, of course, everything is thought out and everything is very tough (I won’t tell you the details, take my word for it). All this can be taken and delivered, solved all the logistics. Well, that’s unless you cut 100500 lemons on the invention of a bicycle ...

      Everything is correct. But only for civilian airplanes that are of no interest to competitors. But for the still very classified devices (the airplane is the last in the line for secrecy) - that’s why it is hung ..... And suddenly give access to Wi-Fi ..... You probably never held a little book in your hands, for reading of which you could get 10 years old.
  36. Leeder
    Leeder 1 May 2018 21: 15
    0
    The story of the F-35 more and more reminds me of a story with battleships. When the loss of even one unit becomes fatal for the country's defense. As a result, the generals will try to avoid releasing them into battle with all their might, which loses its very meaning in such weapons.
  37. gippernano
    gippernano 2 May 2018 05: 22
    0
    if you make the software right

    Bright heads did not translate in Americanism.