Military Review

The spiritual symbol of Barcelona

157
The last time we met with the Cathedral of Barcelona, ​​but this, let's say, is not the most famous object of religious architecture of this city. The most is, of course, the temple of the Holy Family, whose name completely sounds like this: The Expiatory Temple of the Holy Family. And this is exactly the temple, that is, the church in Barcelona, ​​and not the cathedral. The difference is this: it is accepted to call the cathedral that temple in the city where the episcopate chair is located. That is why the Diocesan Temple of Barcelona is the Cathedral of Saint Eulalia, and not at all the Temple of the Holy Family, although it looks so unusual and is built according to a project that was created by the famous Spanish architect, one can say the great architect, Antonio Gaudi.



The construction of the temple is in full swing ...

This temple is unique in that it is one of the world's most famous “long-term construction projects”. Why? Because, for some reason, the initiators of its construction at one time thought that it should be carried out only on voluntary donations. And they are going, yes, of course, but not always regularly and in the desired volumes. And then, it uses very complex stone blocks that need very careful processing and individual fit.


And this is how it looks in a hot city haze from the top of Montjuic.

And, of course, everyone who heard about him is attracted by his appearance, which made him today one of the main attractions of Barcelona. For example, in 2006, 2,26 was visited by a million people at its construction, as many as at the Prado Museum and the Alhambra Palace.

Despite the construction in this temple, which has the official title of the Little Papal Basilica, divine services regularly take place (official consecration was held on November 7 on November 2010 by Pope Benedict XVI). That is, this temple is not only a very important and popular tourist attraction for the city, but also an active Catholic church.


This is the queue at the entrance. It moves slowly. People ... darkness, and you have to stand for several hours in the heat to get inside. For tourists coming here by bus, the task is almost impossible.

Interestingly, the construction of the temple goes on a plot of land that does not belong to the Church, and is not supervised by the Barcelona Episcopate. That is, as it was this "folk construction", so it remains so to this day, and indeed this temple itself is also "folk" in essence!


Memorial sign of the beginning of construction.

Well, ah история This is truly amazing in all respects the structure is. The idea of ​​construction was born in 1874 year. Then, in 1881, a land plot was acquired for donations in the Eixample district of Barcelona, ​​which was in those years ... far from the city. The foundation stone for its foundation was laid on 19 March 1882, and this very day is considered to be the beginning of its construction. The original project belonged to the architect Francisco del Villar, and according to him, the temple was a neo-Gothic basilica, shaped like a traditional Latin cross, with five longitudinal and three transverse aisles. But it turned out that at the end of 1882, del Villar began to disagree with the customers and he left the project, after which the management of the work was transferred to Antonio Gaudi.


Taking pictures on the background of this temple is quite difficult. From afar - uncomfortable. And close it turns out, either the top or the bottom gets into the camera.

At first, Gaudi continued to embody the plans of his predecessor in stone and construction proceeded according to a previously approved plan. But then it happened that Gaudi received an unprecedented generous donation from an anonymous author and ... decisively reworked the entire project. He decided to crown the temple with many monumental towers, and to give all the elements of the cathedral, both inside and outside, a deeply symbolic meaning.


If someone saw how children make turrets of liquid sand on the beach, here their resemblance to the idea of ​​the architect is obvious.

Realizing that he could simply frighten the inhabitants of the city if he began to work according to his plan from the facade of the Passion of the Lord, where the crucifixion of Christ was to be depicted in detail, Gaudi decided to “prepare” them and in 1892 began with the work on the facade of Christmas. One of the features of the decor used by him was the design of the top of the towers and gutters of drainpipes with images of lizards and snails, which were then found in abundance in all the environs and ... were also God's creatures. Then in 1899, he completed the portal of the Holy Virgin of the Rosary, which also has a lot of symbolism. In 1911, Gaudi’s Passion Facade project was created, but its construction began after his death.


There are many different technical buildings around, so it’s difficult to photograph from all sides.

Finally, on November 30, 1925 was completed the construction of the bell tower of the 100 meters high Christmas facade, which was dedicated to St. Barnabas. Unfortunately, it was the only bell tower, completed during the life of Gaudi, who gave the construction of this temple ... more than forty years of his life.

When Gaudi died, his closest associate Domenech Sugranes, who had worked with him for more than 20 years, continued building. He died in 1938 year, but managed to build three belltowns of the facade of Christmas (1927 — 1930), completed work on ceramic cypress on the front entrance of the facade, and did a lot of things that Gaudi did not have time to do. The Spanish Civil War led to the fact that the construction of the facade of Christmas was possible to continue only in 1952 year.

The spiritual symbol of Barcelona

The walls of the temple and its facades are decorated with an impressive number of different sculptures.

In 1954, the year finally began to build the facade of the Passion on the basis of Gaudi's designs made by him from 1892 to 1917 year. In 1977, four towers of the facade of the Passion were completed, and in 1986, work began on sculptures for its decoration, which were finished at the beginning of the 21st century. At the same time in the windows were mounted stained glass windows dedicated to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and a bronze sculpture of the Ascension of the Lord was cast.


"Flight into Egypt." Immortalized even a donkey!

Today, the temple is working on the 170-meter central tower, topped with a cross, and the tower of the apse, dedicated to St. Virgin Mary. According to the existing plan, there should be four more towers in this part of the building, named after the Evangelists. All construction work must be completed in 2026 year, including the facade of Glory, begun in 2000 year.


"Facade of the Passion"

A fully prepared church will have eighteen towers. The twelve, that is, four on each of the facades, will be from 98 to 112 meters in height, and are dedicated to the twelve apostles. Accordingly, four more towers in 120 meters high, named after the Evangelists, will surround the main 170-meter tower of Jesus Christ, and the bell tower of the Virgin Mary will be located above the apse. The towers of the Evangelicals should be decorated with their sculptures and traditional symbols: Taurus (Luke), Angel (Matthew), Eagle (John) and Lion (Mark). On the central spire of the tower of Jesus Christ will be a huge cross. The total height of the Temple, according to Gaudi, also in no way could be accidental: it should not have been higher than the natural creation of the Lord, Montjuic, by its height. The remaining towers will have ornaments in the form of sheaves of wheat and bunches of grapes, which should symbolize Holy Communion.


This is how the temple looks inside!

The façade of Christmas, most of which was created during Gaudi’s lifetime, is formed by three portals glorifying the Christian virtues. All portals are decorated with sculptures made in a very realistic manner and dedicated to the earthly life of Jesus Christ. For example, over the left portal of Hope are shown, for example, scenes of the betrothal of Mary with Joseph, their flight to Egypt and the horrors of beating babies, while his tops with the inscription “Save us” symbolize Mount Montserrat. The right portal of the Faith is adorned with the sculptures “The Meeting of Elizabeth and the Mother of God”, “Jesus and the Pharisees”, “The Entry into the Temple” and “Jesus in the Master Carpenter”. Accordingly, the central portal under the Christmas star is decorated with sculptural compositions “The Birth of Jesus” and “The Adoration of the Shepherds and the Magi”, as well as scenes of the Annunciation and the Wedding of the Holy Virgin, over which the trumpet figures of angels “soar”.


And this is his columns and vault.

The shape of the tower-bell towers, similar to sand castles, was not chosen by chance. It determines the device passing inside the spiral staircases. At the very top of them, Gaudi wanted to install tubular bells, the sound of which should be combined with the sounds of as many as five organs and the voices of one and a half thousand choristers. On each of the bell towers from top to bottom is the following motto: "Glory to the Almighty." And above it polychrome spiers towering, with decorations in the form of symbols of the episcopal dignity - the Ring, Mithra, the Rod and the Cross.


Near the temple, which store you will not enter, there are everywhere its layouts in finished form. Where from paper ...

Inside the temple, all the interiors of Gaudi subject to strict geometric laws. There are round and elliptical-shaped windows and stained-glass windows, arches of hyperbolic outlines, helicoidal staircases, and also numerous stellar structures that appear at the intersection of various surfaces, and ellipsoids that adorn the supporting columns — this is an incomplete list of the geometric details of this unusual temple.


But in the Barcelona Chocolate Museum it is made of chocolate!

The main weight of the towers and vaults is supported by columns, which transfer their enormous weight to the foundation. In the cross section of the base columns have a star shape with the number of vertices from 4 to 12, which is associated with the load on each such column. As it approaches the arches, it forks and creates an unusual structure in the form of ... stems, which was dictated by the need to support the relevant parts of the arch as efficiently as possible.


Around full of tourists. Nowhere to spit! But literally a step to the side, and you can find yourself on such a completely quiet and shady street.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Montserrat. Monastery on the split mountain
157 comments
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  1. Cat
    Cat 5 May 2018 05: 13
    +4
    Looking at such a miracle, you begin to understand the meaning of the word - "monumental"!
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 May 2018 08: 02
      +9
      I do not agree. This is not monumentality, Sograda is very “airy”, however, like most of Gaudi’s creations. It was this effect that he achieved in his work, conducting a lot of practical mock experiments to minimize supporting elements in architecture.
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 5 May 2018 08: 21
      +1
      faith is based on dogmas and canons, and so this church confirms that this statement is false, there are no dogmas or canons of faith. The current civilization and its spiritual component Christianity is trying to move away from the canons, creating its own standards, but using this building as an example we see that it turns out badly.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 May 2018 08: 39
        +10
        This "church" is one of the most beautiful architectural structures of mankind, and you should not try to "be holier than the Pope."
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 5 May 2018 09: 59
          +2
          Quote: 3x3zsave
          This "church" is one of the most beautiful architectural structures of mankind, and you should not try to "be holier than the Pope."


          the blurry and smeared cannot be beautiful, the blurry cannot be crisp and clear, therefore cannot be understood. Here is the real beauty is the Church of the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary in Mexico City.


          Colonial style is real beauty.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 5 May 2018 10: 19
            +1

            Classic is beauty! good
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 5 May 2018 11: 34
              0
              Quote: Tlauicol

              Classic is beauty! good


              actually St. Peter is Baroque, not a classic.
            2. Weyland
              Weyland 5 May 2018 16: 04
              +1
              Quote: Bar1
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              This "church" is one of the most beautiful architectural structures of mankind, and you should not try to "be holier than the Pope."

              cannot be blurry and smeared beautiful,

              Colonial style is real beauty.

              Quote: Tlauicol
              Classic is beauty! good

              Yeah ... the taste and color, as they say ...

              I sang for years, and the Biscay ice cracked,
              And then, in the Prehistoric spring,
              Spirits of icebergs, cliffs, clumping hummocks
              From everywhere the conversation was with me.

              But a stranger from Solutre declared my style outre.
              I threw my counter-argument - and hit.
              And my stone ax finished the argument about tastes
              With the one who painted the mammoth in Grenelle.

              He cleverly removed the scalps from the dead, gave meat to their dogs,
              I hung their teeth on my chest.
              A dead enemy is a good enemy. I don’t want to listen to the wolf
              What is good in art, and what is by no means.

              That night my totem shook me completely
              He said, entering into my dream, like a knife in the heart:
              "There are a hundred ways and five to compose songs,
              And any of them is good in its own way ... "
          2. Curious
            Curious 5 May 2018 10: 57
            +8
            Each style is beautiful in its own way, if it was embodied by a master. The author simply did not have the opportunity to take a shot appropriate to the moment to show the Basílica i Temple Expiatori de la Sagrada Família completely, as in the picture below.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 5 May 2018 11: 36
              0
              Quote: Curious
              Each style is beautiful in its own way, if it was embodied by a master. The author simply did not have the opportunity to take a shot appropriate to the moment to show the Basílica i Temple Expiatori de la Sagrada Família completely, as in the picture below.


              it is not clear what the architects of the church hinted at with these blown forms. Here are the tops of the towers, what is it? What does it mean? unclear.
              1. Curious
                Curious 5 May 2018 12: 18
                +8
                The architects did not hint at anything. This is the architecture of Art Nouveau - the rejection of straight lines and angles in favor of more natural, a kind of natural lines, vertical, dominant tending upward, flowing forms one into another. Just Gaudi and is known for the ability to organically fit their buildings into the surrounding landscape.

                This is Park Guell in Barcelona. Created by Gaudi as conceived by Eusebi Güell already mentioned in the comments below. Unless you specifically like this style, this does not mean that it is bad in principle.
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 5 May 2018 13: 35
                  +3
                  Quote: Curious
                  Architects didn’t hint at anything


                  it’s a primitive understanding of life, even ANY word has even a few meanings, not to mention architecture. For example, a recently restored

                  St. Petersburg's St. Nicholas the Wonderworker Cathedral of Kronstat is a very remarkable building. It was opened after restoration in 2014 and was consecrated by the patriarch. It turns out that the cathedral is simply covered with the so-called CELTIC CROSSES.





                  1. Curious
                    Curious 5 May 2018 14: 25
                    +4
                    So what if it is Covered in CELTIC CROSSES !!! ??? What is SENSATION !!! ???
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 5 May 2018 15: 13
                      0
                      Quote: Curious
                      So what if it is Covered in CELTIC CROSSES !!! ??? What is SENSATION !!! ???


                      that it is an Orthodox church, but there is no Orthodox symbolism.
                      1. Curious
                        Curious 5 May 2018 15: 29
                        +7
                        Your comment only says that your knowledge in this matter is extremely limited, if not completely absent, but you boldly talk about a "primitive understanding of life." Were you in the temple?
                        Have you heard about the Byzantine style in Russian architecture? Have you read about Celtic holiness? Share your knowledge.

                        St. Nicholas Naval Cathedral. Iconostasis. Holy Apostles.
              2. 73bor
                73bor 6 May 2018 18: 17
                +1
                Gaudi himself somehow let slip that great works should never be completed, completeness is limited, that’s essentially what happens with the temple — there is no limit to perfection!
            2. tlauicol
              tlauicol 5 May 2018 12: 00
              +1
              Quote: Curious
              Each style is beautiful in its own way, if it was embodied by a master.

              yeah, cubism, symbolism, urbanism and other neo-primitivism - REP, for example stop negative
              Gaudi Cathedral for the eyes of the Abode of Thecaloid is called, and it is clear why
              1. Curious
                Curious 5 May 2018 12: 49
                +4
                "Horses mixed up in a heap, people ... Urbanism has nothing to do with architectural styles. This, let's say, is a city-planning concept that states the need to create and develop big cities. And in what style you implement it, that's another question.
                As for the rest, even worthy examples can be found there.

                The Swan Princess by Mikhail Vrubel is symbolism.
                1. Curious
                  Curious 5 May 2018 12: 52
                  +4
                  And even in Cubism, not everything is hopeless.

                  “Portrait of Anna Akhmatova”, Nathan Altman. This is cubism. Although I like Makovsky, I still like it better.
                  1. tlauicol
                    tlauicol 5 May 2018 17: 17
                    +1

                    here is the picture of the master! Raphael

                    and still remember the work of Botticelli in Florence
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 5 May 2018 17: 32
                      +5
                      Rafael - yes, master. And Florence is a beautiful city, although tourists, if removed, would be even more beautiful. But we have amazing things at hand. And do not go to Florence. Enough in Nizhny Novgorod.

                      "Minin on the square of Nizhny Novgorod, calling on people to donate." Konstantin Makovsky. The size of the painting is 698x594 cm. Twenty years of the artist's work. A canvas of tremendous power both in plot and in embodiment.
                      This topic is endless. The cultural heritage of mankind is vast and diverse. And everything is valuable in its own way.
                      1. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 5 May 2018 17: 41
                        +2
                        I like the "peplums" Semiradsky like good St. Petersburg palace architecture. Italy is all.
                        But this Gaudi, somehow in any way.
          3. Trilobite Master
            Trilobite Master 5 May 2018 11: 15
            +5
            "To whom priest, to whom come to whom to priest daughter."
            The most beautiful temples are the cave sanctuaries of the Paleolithic times. Everything is natural and beautiful, practically nothing is defiled by the human hand.
  2. Amurets
    Amurets 5 May 2018 05: 54
    +7
    Vyacheslav Olegovich, no comment. Just no words, thanks.
    1. kalibr
      5 May 2018 06: 19
      +6
      Dear Nicholas! I also had no words when I saw this. I read before the trip, looked at the pictures on the web. But when I was there, I won’t even say what I felt. Euphoria is perhaps one word.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 May 2018 07: 40
        +7
        I will subscribe to every word!
  3. Olgovich
    Olgovich 5 May 2018 06: 19
    +3
    Amazingly beautiful construction!
    The amazing genius of Gaudi!
    1. kalibr
      5 May 2018 06: 25
      +3
      And his death is terrible; injuries under the wheels of the tram, and then death in a hospital for the poor ...
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 May 2018 07: 43
        +4
        In retrospect to the previous article on the Book, Bastard is no better.
        1. kalibr
          5 May 2018 18: 12
          +3
          But now all the taxis (black and yellow) in Barcelona are taken to the hospital for free! Keep in mind! You sit down, make a pained face and say "Hospital!" - and "Free of charge!"
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 5 May 2018 18: 35
            +3
            In St. Petersburg, at the beginning of the 90s, bakers were passed by drivers at the age of the same age as the ambulance, and the Gayts did not pay attention to obvious traffic violations.
  4. Aviator_
    Aviator_ 5 May 2018 07: 22
    +1
    It is, of course, all is well, only an order to the Japanese sculptor for the image of Christ with the disciples (all have Mongoloid features) somewhat lubricates the impression of the building.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 May 2018 07: 51
      +5
      Do you want them to be like anime characters with half-eyes? request Or one of the living can claim to know Christ's "imagebot". Or is the "Shroud of Turin" recognized as material historical evidence, and not an artifact?
      1. Aviator_
        Aviator_ 5 May 2018 09: 14
        +1
        This Japanese, on the instructions of Gaudi, made anime in his understanding of the beginning of the 20 years of the last century. I want the sculpture of Christ to correspond as much as possible to the resident of the eastern Mediterranean, and not to the black or Chinese. Gaudi saved money - European sculptors were too expensive.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 May 2018 09: 42
          +4
          Yes, I saved, I had to save. Because the main financial source has closed. Guell died in 1918. And then what "resident of the eastern Mediterranean" do you mean? Modern or two thousand years old? Can you imagine the appearance of a Jew who lived 2000 years ago? No, it’s clear that he was not a Mongoloid, but the “Black Madonna” image is also not quite European.
  5. 3x3zsave
    3x3zsave 5 May 2018 07: 32
    +3
    Most likely, Eusebi Güell was a “certain anonymous person” - an iconic figure in the history of Barcelona, ​​an industrialist, a philanthropist, a politician and ... financial “muse” Anthony (this is the name and spelling of this name) Gaudi, who supported many of the architect's projects. By the way, the Eixample district at the time of the start of the construction of the “Sograda Familia” (the local name of the temple) was not at all an urban outskirts, on the contrary, it was actively built up, not chaotically, but according to the general master plan. By the end of the 19th century. the district becomes the most prestigious residence in Barcelona, ​​a kind of "facade of bourgeois Catalonia."
  6. midshipman
    midshipman 5 May 2018 09: 04
    +6
    By the decision of the Government, I had to be in Barcelona at the exhibition. The King of Spain became the Head of the country. Immediately arrived in Moscow. And 6 workers of the Defense Ministries sent us to the IL-86 at the aviation exhibition. There were 6 people on the plane. We fly, the pilot comes out and asks, "Comrade Ministers, look, fly over Mont Blanc." The picture was beautiful. At the exhibition, the Spaniards met us very well, and ordinary people greeted us with the words "But Pasaran." There he met Sikorsky’s son. He gave me a golden helicopter badge, and I gave him the MiG-25 airplane badge.
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 5 May 2018 09: 09
      +4
      Have you seen the temple?
      1. midshipman
        midshipman 5 May 2018 10: 07
        +4
        Not only seen. Even were in it.
    2. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 5 May 2018 09: 19
      +3
      I understand that the plane is departmental, but to drive IL-86 with a capacity of 300 people to Barcelona for the sake of 6 passengers is too much. To paraphrase the classic: "the circle of functionaries is narrow, they are terribly far from the people ..."
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 5 May 2018 09: 54
        +7
        To paraphrase the classic: "the circle of functionaries is narrow, they are terribly far from the people ..."

        Yuri Grigorievich (Michman) - constructor. And he and his team have so many inventions that they still use. For such a cruiser should be sent, not IL-86. And we must thank that he communicates with us on the site! soldier
        sent to the IL-86 at the aviation exhibition

        the plane flew to the exhibition. Which flew, in that the workers of the defense industry were sent.
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 5 May 2018 10: 25
          +3
          At such an exhibition - and only 6 people from the USSR? I recall Stanislavsky. It will not be enough. I have no doubt in the highest professionalism of Yuri Grigoryevich, he confirms this with his comments, but here, it seems, the usual gouging of ministerial clerks who do not consider state funds.
          1. Mikado
            Mikado 5 May 2018 10: 48
            +5
            the usual gagging of ministerial clerks who do not count state funds.

            I think then everything was stricter! Seriously! The exhibition is international, "honor of the USSR", all that .. Not the present times, when some dogs are taken to airplanes to the exhibition "to protect the honor of Russia". hi Moreover, we don’t know how our delegation arrived, in what order request
            However, Yuri Grigoryevich has one significant disadvantage wink He writes a little on the site! And I would ask him to write, to tell more! hi I’d like to add: “I have the honor”! soldier
            1. Aviator_
              Aviator_ 5 May 2018 10: 52
              +4
              I completely agree, the midshipman needs to write more here, otherwise VO loses its former level.
              1. Mikado
                Mikado 5 May 2018 12: 53
                +6
                and then VO loses its former level

                Sergey, I agree with you completely. drinks On the other hand .. there are so many “experts on everything and everything” that sometimes I don’t feel like writing comments - they will pour mud around with a smug look .. negative
                And Yuri Grigoryevich - more comments. If you have time, tell us, dear Michman, share your experience! hi
  7. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 5 May 2018 09: 08
    +4
    Well, and in addition to a good article, it’s good to read - on the subject - Dan Brown's Origin.
  8. tlauicol
    tlauicol 5 May 2018 10: 06
    +3
    This “creation” of Gaudi is one of the reasons why my family and I don’t go to Barcelona :)) I absolutely don’t like it request
    1. Aviator_
      Aviator_ 5 May 2018 10: 27
      +3
      Especially out of place there are cubists at the end of the entire exposition.
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 5 May 2018 12: 57
        +3
        It seems to me that 20th-century Spanish art is generally quite peculiar .. So to speak, far from the "classics". At least some figures.

        but Picasso’s civic stance can be grateful. Remember when the Nazi asked him the question: "Did you do this?", followed by the answer:"No. Did it YOU.." stop
        1. Aviator_
          Aviator_ 5 May 2018 13: 29
          +3
          Guernica - this is understandable, the result of the Franco bombing, a similar style is acceptable here, but to portray the original Christianity in approximately this form is a perversion. Well, there are enough original commentators, coupled with the same moderators.
    2. kalibr
      5 May 2018 18: 06
      +4
      But there is a lot of other interesting things there ... The Museum of the History of Catalonia, an excellent Aquarium, a chic maritime museum with LaReal gallery (there was an article about it in VO), an archaeological museum, the Salvator Dali museum, a chocolate museum ... I write about it in VO I can’t, but my article about him was in the magazine Mysteries of the XNUMXth Century. A maritime school, in the foyer of which is also an excellent maritime museum ... Again, two Gaudi houses - a house with bones and a house with crooked corners. And the New Year’s Kaganer in the central department store (if you go in the winter for Christmas) is definitely worth a look. Cathedral with geese Eulalia ... Zoo in the Citadel Park. Well, he is so-so ... The mountain and the park of Montjuic ... Again, Montserrat is nearby. Before him from Barcelona at hand. And you may not even look at the cathedral
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 May 2018 18: 52
        +2
        I will add one of the safest megacities in the world. Serious crimes - in tenths of a percent. By the way, local Russian-speakers say that this is a considerable merit of local organized crime. One significant minus, Barcelona is the European capital of pickpockets.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 5 May 2018 19: 27
        +5
        Barcelona is one of the most beautiful cities in the world. There, even the sleeping quarters-new buildings were designed by famous architects.
      3. tlauicol
        tlauicol 6 May 2018 05: 00
        +1
        A minuscule of attractions for such a metropolis, and besides, many are new negative Shanghai, New York, the Emirates also have different museums and water parks, but they are absolutely not attractive - there is no history, and modern temples and neon skyscrapers do not impress us - there is no sense of ancient achievements, titanic work, aesthetics. Plastic cities.
        Barcelona is not Abu Dhabi, of course, but it doesn’t pull. This is not Rome, not even small Kotor, where everything has been breathing for centuries. And these Gaudi - Shmaudi such an ancient city only ruined. IMHO
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 6 May 2018 14: 52
          +3
          I love modern architecture no less than
          ancient. And with your ratings, neon skyscrapers
          I can not agree.
          Combinability is exciting to combine with antiquity -
          fit one into the other. This is the skill
          modern architects. For example, erect
          a house with a glass wall opposite the old one to
          the stone in the glass was reflected and multiplied in the reflections.
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 6 May 2018 17: 17
            +1
            For instance ? What is reflected there beautifully? in Rome, in the center of the house, they do not build houses above 4 floors - this is skill and culture. And here we have Peter and Moscow already covered with glass
  9. Curious
    Curious 5 May 2018 10: 34
    +4
    I will allow myself a few additions.

    This is José María Bocabella, a Spanish bookseller, philanthropist, religious person, founder of El propagador de la devoción a San José (exemplary translation is the Association of Adherents of Saint José). At some times, the Association numbered up to 600 members.
    Visiting the Vatican in 1872, Bocabella visited the Basilica della Santa Casa in Loreto and got the urge to build something similar in Spain. It was under this plan that Bocabella bought a plot in Barcelona for 172 pesetas. Francisco de Paula del Villar and Lozano rejected Bocabello's idea of ​​building a copy of the Basilica della Santa Casa and proposed a project in the neo-Gothic style. Another outstanding Spanish architect, John Martorell, participated in the project. It was the differences between del Villar and Martorell that led to the resignation of Villar. Martorell himself also refused the offer to continue the project and proposed Antonio Gaudi, for whom this project became a matter of life.
    1. Curious
      Curious 5 May 2018 10: 36
      +6

      And this is the Basilica della Santa Casa in Loreto, inspired by Bocabello.
  10. Okolotochny
    Okolotochny 5 May 2018 10: 37
    +6
    Thank you, Vyacheslav Olegovich. It seems that he himself went on an excursion. And, I agree with Amurts ... there are no further words !!!
  11. Trilobite Master
    Trilobite Master 5 May 2018 11: 29
    +5
    Thanks to the author. For the first time I found out about this temple when I got into the hands of Aan Parsons' record "Gaudi". I really liked the music, now I remembered, I found, I listen ... "Who knows where the road may lead us, only the fool would say ..." Nostalgia ... Thanks again.
    1. Mikado
      Mikado 5 May 2018 13: 04
      +2
      Alan Parsons

      Alan Parsons Project? Not an expert, but heard. The very idea of ​​the group was original. As I understand it, the group gathered in session for recording albums, and did not have a permanent composition. I am very sorry that Radio Rocks no longer broadcasts in the FM band, only this group could be heard on it! request
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 5 May 2018 13: 41
        +3
        Quote: Mikado
        Alan Parsons Project?

        Exactly. Or as the speakers said in the USSR "Alan Parsosns group" smile
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjWSbKz6INQ
        1. Mikado
          Mikado 5 May 2018 14: 35
          +3
          Awesome! good I repent, I did not know about this song from them .. And the cathedral .. Yes, nostalgia, I understand. hi The saxophone was even included in the ensemble. The saxophone is always a figure, the rest is the background during its sound .. request That’s why I respect Mazaev for working at Autograph! good
          Let's hit the forum saxophone! soldier very interesting domestic artist. It sounds divine. The main theme is from 3.15. Eh, I wouldn’t be who I was, I would master .. recourse
          1. Curious
            Curious 5 May 2018 15: 14
            +2
            Fausto Papetti seems to be unknown to you. Or I'm wrong?
            1. Mikado
              Mikado 5 May 2018 15: 56
              +3
              Ignoramus! Do not be mistaken! drinks You understand, I listen to rock, and all that ... Good rock! hi and not oral delights patlaty drunks! stop You still ask me about S. mihaylova (unfortunately, namesake) and muzhebaba vaengu laughing

              "Everything you want, what you need!"Ah, the hero of the song found the perfect girl after a time of loneliness! drinks And .. I knew with her the unknown! love And we have launched the new Flurry ship Flurry. I am proud to work with the marine plant! soldier
              1. Curious
                Curious 5 May 2018 16: 01
                +2
                Somehow I didn’t get into the analogy of “Papetti - Oral Drunkards”. It seems that there was a question about the saxophone, then the transition to the drunken drunken oral ... It seems that I’ve gotten old and don’t catch up with the maxims of youth.
                1. Mikado
                  Mikado 5 May 2018 16: 03
                  +2
                  I meant listening to rock. But rock is good, not slurred yelling in a drunk voice! Do not trash, translate. And normal rock is a thing! drinks
                  but about Papetti - did not listen. Excuse me, Dear Man! recourse
                  1. Curious
                    Curious 5 May 2018 16: 11
                    +3
                    Yes, there are courageous guys who lace up their boots with reinforcement and, apart from the terribly heavy rock, they will not accept other rhythmic sound combinations. However, rock music also knows examples of the virtuoso use of the saxophone. Of the famous ones are Pink Floyd, Sting, mentioned by The Alan Parsons Project and even Eagles.
                    And Chicago, so they even played Miller’s “Moonlight Serenade” using a saxophone. But I like Papetti better. When I traveled long distances, I always turned it in the car.
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 5 May 2018 16: 35
                      +4
                      Eagles.

                      under them my dad danced with my mom, still a cadet. Under "Hotel California". He likes to remember .. By the way, he appreciated articles about Polotsk and Kingisepp! good
                      When I traveled long distances, I always turned it in the car.

                      I often twisted Autograph. The songs are perestroika, naive, but the duet of man and saxophone is wonderful. On the saxophone - Sergey Mazaev, listen from 3.15. And 3.45 is just a surge of energy!

                      "in the cinema .. in the gloom .. ersatz-love .."Has something changed? Erzatz is ersatz. request
                      1. Okolotochny
                        Okolotochny 6 May 2018 08: 04
                        +2
                        Nikolay, what about the SOS Autograph or John Lennon's Memory? This is the earliest Autograph.
                  2. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 5 May 2018 19: 21
                    +5
                    I'm now afraid to whisper about my penchant for punk rock. repeat Pancake! Martian, humanist, cosmopolitan, dog lover, builder, now also a punker! negative What nafig saxophone, there on the strings something doesn’t always fall!
                    1. Mikado
                      Mikado 5 May 2018 19: 52
                      +3
                      I'm now afraid to whisper about my penchant for punk rock

                      I don’t know about punk, but Alice Cooper is our everything! drinks
                    2. Hantengri
                      Hantengri 5 May 2018 20: 44
                      +3
                      Quote: 3x3zsave
                      I'm now afraid to whisper about my penchant for punk rock. Pancake!

                      Damn ... And I thought I was the only one so flawed! winked (Shyly whispers: Hoy!)
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 5 May 2018 21: 07
                        +3
                        What kind of hoy is that? Which Jura?
      2. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny 6 May 2018 07: 59
        +3
        There were Emerson, Lake and Palmer - ELP. Listen to their song "Old and Wise." This is the Thing, with a capital letter. On the Radio for some reason they do not twist.
  12. Bar1
    Bar1 5 May 2018 17: 30
    +1
    Curious,
    Well, your answer says that you prefer to speak on specific facts with your insignificant words. I say the crosses are not Orthodox, they are eternal, but Celtic inscribed in a circle, for whom is this church?
    1. Curious
      Curious 5 May 2018 18: 28
      +6
      So my words do not tell you anything because you do not know anything on the matter. But somewhere, some "neopagans" or some other folk folk historians grabbed information about the Celtic crosses and without even trying to figure out the issue, they immediately began to repeat that "the king is not real." And what, in this case, should I break out a cycle of lectures?
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 5 May 2018 19: 02
        0
        Quote: Curious
        So my words do not tell you anything because you do not know anything on the matter. But somewhere, some "neopagans" or some other folk folk historians grabbed information about the Celtic crosses and without even trying to figure out the issue, they immediately began to repeat that "the king is not real." And what, in this case, should I break out a cycle of lectures?


        "break out a lecture" is in the style of modern propaganda, we don’t need this, just look at the differences between the Celtic and Orthodox crosses. You only have proclamations instead of answers.
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 6 May 2018 00: 30
          +5
          Quote: Bar1
          we don’t need this, just look at the differences between the Celtic and Orthodox crosses.
          Yes, no lectures are needed, those who want to understand, are looking for sources of knowledge, those who do not want to go to the rumors. Here are the meanings of the Celtic cross.
          The Celtic cross at the moment is a symbol of wisdom, unity, harmony, prosperity. Its very form speaks of a looped life and a dense connection of the past with the present and future. CELTIC CROSS The image of the cross is sometimes incorrectly considered a purely Christian symbol. This image, like many others, was adopted by Christians. You can find similar images in almost any corner of the globe. Even on the majestic Buddha statues you can see this sign, which once again indicates that this is not a primordially Christian symbol, since the teachings of the Buddha are 6 centuries older than Christianity. Source: © http://grimuar.ru/zashita/keltskiy-krest.html
          1. Bar1
            Bar1 6 May 2018 13: 57
            0
            Quote: Amurets
            The Celtic cross at the moment is a symbol of wisdom,


            the Celtic cross is first of all a symbol of a forgotten history, it is also a Qatari cross.
            This is not the case, the Kronstadt Naval Cathedral is primarily an Orthodox church with its own symbolism, which SHOULD NOT change over time, because there are church traditions, which are called canons. But we see a departure from traditions and this causes bewilderment and not only bewilderment, but also the alarm for our religion, what is happening to it?
            1. Curious
              Curious 6 May 2018 23: 02
              +4
              In 1896, on the initiative of Vice Admiral N.I. Kaznakov, the chief commander of the Kronstadt port, the idea arose of constructing the Naval Cathedral, which would correspond in its greatness to the significance of Kronstadt as the cradle of the Russian fleet, and would be a worthy monument as the officers of the Maritime Department who died in the performance of official duties, as well as outstanding figures who contributed to the development and glory of the fleet.
              In 1897, with the highest permission, a Committee was formed under the chairmanship of Vice Admiral N. I. Kaznakov to collect donations for the construction of the Cathedral; in these donations participated both the Highest Persons and private individuals; the largest part of the donations was collected by the officers of the Maritime Department, who decided since 1898 to annually deduct 1/4 percent of the salary, dining rooms and sea allowance for the construction of the Cathedral. The committee rejected three projects, after which the compilation of the new project was entrusted to the builder of the Church of the Naval Department in the name of the Mother of God in Galernaya Harbor and the Naval Cathedral in Port EMPEROR ALEXANDER III, civil engineer professor V. A. Kosyakov.
              On April 16, 1901, the Committee, with the participation of invited chiefs of institutions and commanders and officers of the teams and crews located in Kronstadt, unanimously elected one of the two sketches submitted by Kosyakov. May 21, 1901 was followed by the Highest approval of this sketch, explained by a small model made in port workshops, and on March 18, 1902, the composition of the Construction Committee was established to carry out the project from the heads of certain parts of the local maritime administration and the chairman of the State Audit Office, chaired by the Chief Commander of the Port.
              The detailed blueprints for finishing the Cathedral designed by the builders were honored on August 19, 1908 with the consideration and approval of THEIR IMPERIAL MAJESTIES on the Alexandria Yacht in the presence of Committee Chairman Admiral K.P. Nikonov and the Cathedral Builder, and ITS IMPERIAL MAJESTY made comments on some details. These comments were adopted by the Builder for guidance in the manufacture of models of marble and bronze parts of the interior decoration, which were awarded the Highest IMPERIAL Majesty's approval upon presentation by the Committee Chairman Admiral I.K. Grigorovich and the Builder in December 1908 and spring 1909. THE IMPERIAL MAJESTIES were honored with visits and the work itself, where by this time the internal forests had already been dismantled. In general, the work was awarded the highest approval.
              The exterior and interior of the cathedral was distinguished by its richness and outstanding artistic quality. The best masters of their time worked on decorating the cathedral, leaving a noticeable mark in the history of Russian and world art. From historical sources it is known that the architect and artist G.A. took part in the work on the decoration of the cathedral. Kosyakov, Olovyanishnikovs bell-keepers, sculptor N.V. Popov, mosaic artist V.A. Frolov, ceramist P.K. Vaulin, painters K.S. Petrov-Vodkin, M.M. Vasiliev, F.R. Raylyan, A.V. Troitsky and others
              On June 10 (23), 1913, the Naval Cathedral was consecrated in the name of St. Nicholas the Wonderworker, the patron saint of sailors and all travelers. The consecration ceremony of the cathedral was conducted by the Protopresbyter of the naval and naval clergy Father Georgy Shavelsky, accompanied by the rector of the St. Petersburg Admiralty Cathedral, Metropolitan Archpriest Alexy Stavrovsky and the Kronstadt clergy.
              During the restoration process ORIGINAL ornaments, compositions, mosaics, stucco decoration, artificial marble, gilding WERE CALCULATED, STRENGTHENED AND RESTORED.
              And then a certain BAR 1 appears, who is perplexed, since he alone knows by what canons and traditions it is necessary to build churches and is holier than all the builders of this temple. Don't you find it funny?
              As for the canons, they are just strictly observed, since its sacred prototype is the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Constantinople. Kosyakov’s great merit is that he managed to creatively rework the Byzantine heritage.
              There is a lot of literature on the construction of the cathedral and on the Byzantine and Art Nouveau styles in Russian church architecture. Read and do not write nonsense about Celtic crosses and other folkhistorical and conspiratorial nonsense.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 May 2018 07: 10
                +4
                Well, it’s necessary to master the lope beech! Boredom !!! Meanwhile, the position: “But what do I know !!!! gives weight in my own eyes. At the same time, priests and zealots of faith somehow forget one of the fundamental theses: pride is a grave sin.
              2. Bar1
                Bar1 7 May 2018 08: 22
                0
                These comments were adopted by the Builder for guidance in the manufacture of models of marble and bronze parts of the interior decoration, which were awarded the Highest IMPERIAL MAJESTIES


                the fact that the king intervened in the construction of the temple says that this construction was under the control of the highest authority.
                But the king was German and Russian traditions were indifferent to him.
                Quote: Curious
                During the restoration process ORIGINAL ornaments, compositions, mosaics, stucco decoration, artificial marble, gilding WERE CALCULATED, STRENGTHENED AND RESTORED.


                the church was new and the decoration too, what was "restored" there?

                Quote: Curious
                And then a certain BAR 1 appears, who is perplexed, since he alone knows by what canons and traditions it is necessary to build churches and is holier than all the builders of this temple. Don't you find it funny?


                laughter out of place is a sign of people not in our circle.
                To take any Russian church, as we see the top of the dome - an eight-pointed cross - quite in Orthodox traditions and there are no questions.




                Quote: Curious
                As for the canons, they are just strictly observed, since its sacred prototype is the Cathedral of St. Sophia in Constantinople.


                can then show Celtic crosses on St. Sofia?

                In general, show me in what place it seemed to you that you answered my questions, point with your finger, or rather select a quote? How is it customary to do.

                Quote: Curious
                There is a lot of literature on the construction of the cathedral and on the Byzantine and Art Nouveau styles in Russian church architecture. Read and do not write nonsense about Celtic crosses and other folkhistorical and conspiratorial nonsense.


                I don’t use mass, because I also understand specifically on a specific issue.
                1. Curious
                  Curious 7 May 2018 08: 37
                  +5
                  Bar 1. I usually don’t spend time on types like you and I did not intend to persuade you, because Hippocrates did not swear an oath. Therefore, my comment was written in case anyone suddenly stumbles upon your “revelations”. And the fact that I used the verb "answered" to inform your person is a complete coincidence. All the best.
                  1. Bar1
                    Bar1 7 May 2018 08: 49
                    0
                    Quote: Curious
                    Bar 1. I usually don’t spend time on types like you and I did not intend to persuade you, because Hippocrates did not swear an oath. Therefore, my comment was written in case anyone suddenly stumbles upon your “revelations”. And the fact that I used the verb "answered" to inform your person is a complete coincidence. All the best.

                    this is called came in, paled and left. Why are you not so serious?
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 7 May 2018 09: 53
                      +4
                      Because feeding trolls is a pity. Seriously.
                      1. Bar1
                        Bar1 7 May 2018 09: 56
                        0
                        Quote: Curious
                        Because feeding trolls is a pity. Seriously.


                        Well, I’m just on the topic, about churches, and for what reasons did you post Vrubel, yes Almanof?
                2. 3x3zsave
                  3x3zsave 7 May 2018 11: 10
                  +1
                  Noticeably. Meanwhile, there are no crosses over Hagia Sophia, just crescents.
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 May 2018 19: 02
      +4
      Really for the Varangians?!?!?
      1. Mikado
        Mikado 5 May 2018 19: 22
        +4
        No, for the Papuans! Anton, do not swear! drinks
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 5 May 2018 19: 33
          +4
          Yes, I have not started, actually. "While changing the ladle, the Soviet athlete is warming up with dry wine"
  13. DimanC
    DimanC 5 May 2018 18: 58
    +4
    In short, you just need to save money and go there laughing
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 May 2018 19: 31
      +2
      Absolutely right! Only “Schengen” is better to draw up not Spanish, it is one of the most expensive, 120 euros (Finnish - 60), but, right away for a year.
      1. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 5 May 2018 21: 09
        +3
        There are still all sorts of nuances to whom it is interesting - I can tell in a "personal".
  14. Hantengri
    Hantengri 5 May 2018 21: 14
    +3
    3x3zsave,
    And he too! But I remember there was such a cry: "Punks hoi!" laughing
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 May 2018 21: 27
      +2
      From this time and sending me the "Ensemble" Waterfall "named after Vakhtang Kikabidze" is somehow closer. If from contemporaries, then probably "Pilot". There is still such a St. Petersburg team "Billi's band"
    2. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 5 May 2018 21: 47
      +2
      And, exactly, it was like that. The beginning of 90gg. F. Chistyakov, Panov ("Pig"). He was personally acquainted with the latter, a complete scumbag, everyone was looking for the fame of Sid Vicious, searched ...
  15. polikarpich
    polikarpich 6 May 2018 07: 51
    +1
    Temples are built to worship the Divine, therefore, the human emphasized is minimized, and this temple is the apotheosis of human worship. It is not surprising that there are predictions about the collapse of the existing civilization at the time of completion of the construction of this temple. It is clear that all kinds of predictions are complete nonsense, but when you look at the parades of perverts of various types, and especially at the dynamics of growth in the numbers of these types, the prophecies are recalled as quite real.
  16. NF68
    NF68 6 May 2018 16: 14
    +2
    Beautiful place. No wonder so many tourists go there.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 6 May 2018 20: 07
      +3
      Not so much already. Last year, the Barcelona authorities passed a law on restrictions on tourism business. Despite the fact that tourism is one of the most important sectors of the economy, it becomes uncomfortable to live in the city due to the huge influx of tourists.
      1. NF68
        NF68 7 May 2018 14: 49
        +2
        Quote: 3x3zsave
        Not so much already. Last year, the Barcelona authorities passed a law on restrictions on tourism business. Despite the fact that tourism is one of the most important sectors of the economy, it becomes uncomfortable to live in the city due to the huge influx of tourists.


        Nevertheless, it was in Catalonia last year that more tourists arrived than in any other region of Spain.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 May 2018 16: 33
          0
          And that is great!
          1. NF68
            NF68 8 May 2018 16: 20
            0
            Quote: 3x3zsave
            And that is great!


            Tourists are happy, and the Catalans will also get their own. By the number of tourists annually visiting Spain, Spain shares with the USA 2 / 3 places in the world second only to France.
  17. kalibr
    7 May 2018 06: 23
    +1
    Quote: Bar1

    the Celtic cross is first of all a symbol of a forgotten history, it is also a Qatari cross.

    The Qatari cross has never been Celtic. Here was an article about Qatar castles and there was a photo of their cross on the wall of a 13th century house.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 7 May 2018 08: 45
      0
      Quote: kalibr
      Quote: Bar1

      the Celtic cross is first of all a symbol of a forgotten history, it is also a Qatari cross.

      The Qatari cross has never been Celtic. Here was an article about Qatar castles and there was a photo of their cross on the wall of a 13th century house.


      here is the celtic cross



      here is the qatari cross


      find the differences? Both the one and the other cross are inscribed in a circle i.e. in a halo. Here it is the CIRCLE itself is very important.
      1. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 7 May 2018 12: 13
        +3

        This is a well-known symbol.

        And this is the same symbol, mirrored and combined with the original one.
        Sound familiar?
        Coincidence? I do not think.
        Conclusion: the Bolsheviks were secret Christians. And a little slanting Celts and Cathars.
      2. Trilobite Master
        Trilobite Master 7 May 2018 12: 44
        +3
        And here's another puzzle for the connoisseur of the cross.
        The first-graders in the classroom gave each other some note and giggled ugly. The teacher, having intercepted the note, saw on it a strange symbol — a slanting (Andreevsky) cross in a rectangular edged field, topped with inverted rafters. Question: what so fun first-graders?
        PS
        The story of my stormy childhood.
    2. Curious
      Curious 7 May 2018 10: 51
      +3
      Vyacheslav Olegovich, not worth the effort. This is something like the notorious Veni. The voice of reason is powerless here.
      1. kalibr
        7 May 2018 11: 05
        +3
        What surprises me, Viktor Nikolaevich! Everything is online. I typed and it will open for you. At the VO there was my article on Qatari castles, on the castle of Carcassonne with a photo of the “Toulouse Cross”, aka “Qatar Cross”. But a man is breaking through an open door, like "I had a flash of inspiration from above." A kind of extrasensory perception ...
        1. Curious
          Curious 7 May 2018 11: 36
          +2
          Rather, a kind of persecutory state.
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 May 2018 11: 58
            +3
            A good definition is most likely true. The question remains: what .... demon are we talking to? Psychotherapy is powerless here. Haloperidol in the studio!
            1. Curious
              Curious 7 May 2018 13: 20
              +2
              The fact is that the property of any fully developed individual is not to think badly about others. Nowadays, when the number of toxic people is constantly growing in society, this quality becomes a problem, since in most cases you cannot immediately determine a toxic individual, intuition does not always help. So we communicate.
            2. Bar1
              Bar1 7 May 2018 13: 30
              0
              Quote: 3x3zsave
              A good definition is most likely true. The question remains: what .... demon are we talking to? Psychotherapy is powerless here. Haloperidol in the studio!


              you have neither the strength to "communicate", nor the formation of a suitable one, and money from the Ministry of Justice will not help here. You can only crush in a heap and lay out stupid things, Frubel's inkwells, etc. Education of propagandists is not enough to know the history and not from the textbooks (into the stove of the Kautian trait), but the true one, which would at least be adequately opposed. In short, the low class, not a pure game.
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 May 2018 16: 09
                +2
                Oh yeah! Here I agree. This is Viktor Nikolaevich talking to people like you, for faith in the voice of reason in him is indestructible. My opinion about the fate of humanitarian ghouls is a basement, a rack and a bonfire! For you persist in heresies, and the spirit of Torquemada beats in my heart.
                1. Curious
                  Curious 7 May 2018 18: 28
                  +1
                  This is exactly the opposite. Despite its negative features, medieval heresies had a positive side. After all, the majority of the people were poor and uneducated. The church and the clergy had great power over him. And heretical ideas could bring confusion, but at the same time give people the opportunity to develop. And here everything is just mirrored - a movement into the darkness of ignorance under the guise of involvement in certain sacred knowledge obtained directly from the noosphere.
                  1. 3x3zsave
                    3x3zsave 7 May 2018 19: 57
                    +2
                    Viktor Nikolaevich, we can absolutely calmly consider and discuss any issue or problem, for they are insensitive and capable of a constructive dialogue (remember the “Norwegian partisans”). However, we do not pass on to individuals, knives and ballistic missiles. Any heresy is initially belligerent, for it is a protest. When a protest takes to the streets, it ends in great blood. The Qatari heresy, in this sense, is indicative. Yes, embarrassment of minds. provides an incentive for the development of society. but this requires minds. With the current development of technology and the embryonic development of critical thinking, any heresy can be the last. I don’t want my great-great-grandchildren to die by Hawking. I want to see Mars, even with binary code, according to Kurzweil.
                    1. Curious
                      Curious 7 May 2018 20: 08
                      +1
                      By the way, Kurzweil has such a "Law of Accelerating Return" - evolutionary systems are developing exponentially. Interestingly, is this applicable to degrading systems?
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 7 May 2018 20: 44
                        +1
                        Viktor Nikolaevich, at Kurzweil I read only Evolution of Reason (the only work published in Russian). Everything else _ snippets from the Internet and their own mind-building based on them. Therefore, if you want a dialogue, explain the terms. Otherwise, sorry for the deceived expectations.
                    2. kalibr
                      7 May 2018 20: 34
                      +1
                      Anton! There is a problem! I asked my students whether they knew about Fomenko, Suvorov, flat Earth, Hyperborrhea ... One (!) Read about the "earth". The rest have not even heard of all these miracles! And I formally do not even have the right to waste time on cultural studies, talking about "this." But ... suddenly five years will pass like this ... someone with a "clear mind" will find it this way, read it ... "penetrate" and that's it ... even a spoonful of tar will ruin a barrel of honey. But the program does not leave me time for ... "vaccination against nonsense," Theoretically, the level of knowledge given to her is the same. But ... there are also triples ...
                      1. 3x3zsave
                        3x3zsave 7 May 2018 21: 38
                        +2
                        Vyacheslav Olegovich, sometimes I don’t share your views, but I really appreciate your asceticism! This clinical case is not treated by verbal methods. This character is a ghoul. He eats your time and energy.
      2. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 May 2018 11: 30
        +2
        Victor Nikolaevich, Vyacheslav Olegovich, I understood the background of this heresy! It turns out that the fleet stood for three years “at the wall” in Helsinki, morally and politically decaying, because the Naval Cathedral was dotted with pagan and heretical symbols! It remains to collect the "ultra-Orthodox" and "neoproletarians" on one site - let them pass each other! Vyacheslav Olegovich, can you write something about the Cathedral of Christ the Savior? Only the Proto-Slavs will remain, well, with them, Neanderthals, it’s easier, they themselves will die out.
        1. kalibr
          7 May 2018 20: 28
          +2
          I don’t know about Christ the Savior .. I was there, of course, even again this summer ... But in order to write something interesting, it is necessary to go to his "leadership", and this is a long and troublesome process, and now I’m more through Moscow passing ...
          1. 3x3zsave
            3x3zsave 7 May 2018 20: 47
            +1
            Excuse me, please! I proposed this in the "inquisitorial" vein.
      3. 3x3zsave
        3x3zsave 7 May 2018 11: 39
        +3
        What nafig voice of reason!?!?!? The man with Peter Klyuchnik on "you"!
  18. vlad007
    vlad007 7 May 2018 09: 57
    +1
    The Temple of the Holy Family is an outstanding work of architecture, no doubt.
    "There is nothing better than Nevsky Prospekt, at least in St. Petersburg; for him, it is everything. Why does this street not shine - the beauty of our capital!" N.V. Gogol
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 7 May 2018 11: 44
      +1
      I will argue with Gogol - there is! This is the Rambla in Barcelona. She is not better, she is different. But beautiful too!
  19. Curious
    Curious 7 May 2018 10: 35
    +2
    Bar1,
    You do not like Vrubel? I can offer you personally Jon Bauer.
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 7 May 2018 11: 04
      +2
      Unpromising! "The Kalabukhov House has disappeared!" "The Heart of a Dog" (M. Bulgakov).
      Begins "Doom2" and "House 2" ...
    2. Bar1
      Bar1 7 May 2018 12: 43
      0
      Quote: Curious
      Bar1,
      You do not like Vrubel? I can offer you personally Jon Bauer.

      well, of course, after all meaningless words, the true face is revealed.
      1. kalibr
        7 May 2018 19: 05
        +2
        I still wonder why you at least do not listen to the advice of people who know you dozens of times more than you, have seen everything ... a lot. Remain in your opinion, but at least look, the testicles will not fall off from you. Here is your favorite Qatari cross on the wall of the house in the castle of Carcassonne - he took it himself, but he is also depicted on the coat of arms of Toulouse.
        And this is a cross on the monument on the Field burned at the ascent to the mountain, where the castle of Moncegur is located. I didn’t shoot it myself, I took it quickly from the Web ... But what is this? Forbidden to people like you to view? So that innocence is not lost? Some are afraid to look into the newspaper True, as if in the "holy USSR not to be disappointed," others ... are looped on the crosses. Okay, before I had to go to the library, now I pressed the button and EVERYTHING. But no, with persistence ... a man hammering his own. By God, I need to start writing articles about aliens from Nibiru and the time traveler of Christ lost in time ... Only a few deserve more than her!

        By the way, there are always flowers and ... who brings? Yeah! Secret Cathars live and do their job!
        1. Bar1
          Bar1 7 May 2018 19: 39
          0
          your imagination is not enough, your first cross has the same circle inscribed in the cross, but symbolically.
          That would be clear. Celtic cross

          qatari cross


          http://www.kfss.ru/page/simvolika-kfss

          a cross inscribed in a circle is what unites this symbolism.
          1. Curious
            Curious 7 May 2018 19: 58
            0

            And what is this cross?
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 7 May 2018 20: 26
              0
              Quote: Curious

              And what is this cross?

              this is an american indian cherokee.
              1. Curious
                Curious 7 May 2018 21: 36
                +1
                The Indians did not build stone churches. The next attempt.
          2. kalibr
            7 May 2018 20: 11
            +2
            And you, Timur, what is missing when you look at the cross of Cathars on the wall? Where is the circle? Here is the coat of arms of the county of Toulouse and this is the cross of the Cathars. There is no circle here.
            By the way, I was not too lazy to read your link. So what? There is nothing evidence there. Pictures and link to Fomenko. This is not a source. And about the Cathars, everything is written all wrong there. They have been doing it for a long time. And not only Fomenko. Abroad there is an excellent historiography of this issue. There are truly scientific articles on this subject. So do not refer to the first article you get from the Web just because you liked it. This is not an argument!
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 7 May 2018 20: 28
              0
              if you draw a solid line along the tips of the cross, there will be a circle. This cross is no longer canonical, but some kind of style of the Qatari cross, possibly already later.
              1. kalibr
                7 May 2018 20: 53
                +2
                If you hold ... and if grandfather cuts something, then there will be no canonical version of grandmother. Stubbornness, it is worse than drunkenness. Before you write clever words, sort it out when in what years which symbols were used. Later, how ... There were no later ... But I wrote to you here in VO there was a series of my articles about Qatari castles and their religion. This is better than some obscure sites of unknown people.
                1. Bar1
                  Bar1 7 May 2018 21: 29
                  0
                  In general, the Qatari history has been erased from the memory of mankind and the symbols of that era, which is strange and also leads to different thoughts. But there are old maps, which for some reason are now present on different sites and here is the strangeness, place names of those places in Galia, and France in those days Galia was called very strange, for example, the Rhone river was called -ROSNA and the tributaries were also strange - the rivers Don and Sosna, I can show maps if necessary. Everything is so intertwined.
                  1. kalibr
                    8 May 2018 07: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: Bar1
                    the Qatari history has been erased from the memory of mankind and the symbols of that era are not left, which is strange and also leads to different thoughts.

                    Let me begin by calling you quite accessible books for the Russian citizen on this "erased topic." Only authors with names will be long: Renee Nellie, Jean Marcale, Richard Smoley, Gerard de Sed (this one loves mystery very much, too, like you!), As well as M. Baiydent, G. Lincoln, R. Ley. Our Russian N. Osokin with the book “History of the Albigensians”, Jean Duverno “History of the Cathars” is a very interesting and scientific study. As you see, different countries, different nationalities ... And there is also untranslated literature, as well as scientific articles in scientific collections and magazines. The latter are generally unmeasured. Here it is for starters, at least you master, and then we return to this topic. Naturally, I do not insist on a personal visit to Montsegur and Carcassonne. And now here is a photograph of the monument on the Field burnt large. Look what a cross is depicted on it ... Just the same as on the wall of a house in Carcassonne.
                    1. Bar1
                      Bar1 8 May 2018 08: 48
                      0
                      Quote: kalibr
                      Quote: Bar1
                      the Qatari history has been erased from the memory of mankind and the symbols of that era are not left, which is strange and also leads to different thoughts.

                      Let me begin by calling you quite accessible books for the Russian citizen on this "erased topic." Only authors with names will be long: Renee Nellie, Jean Marcale, Richard Smoley, Gerard de Sed (this one loves mystery very much, too, like you!), As well as M. Baiydent, G. Lincoln, R. Ley. Our Russian N. Osokin with the book “History of the Albigensians”, Jean Duverno “History of the Cathars” is a very interesting and scientific study. As you see, different countries, different nationalities ... And there is also untranslated literature, as well as scientific articles in scientific collections and magazines. The latter are generally unmeasured. Here it is for starters, at least you master, and then we return to this topic. Naturally, I do not insist on a personal visit to Montsegur and Carcassonne. And now here is a photograph of the monument on the Field burnt large. Look what a cross is depicted on it ... Just the same as on the wall of a house in Carcassonne.


                      I’ll look from the list that it’s available, but I didn’t talk about what was written, but what has survived from the Cathars to this day. But little has been preserved, everything has been destroyed and most likely destroyed intentionally. These are precisely the monuments and erased. And as for this particular photograph / stella, I think this is not a monument, but a remake, have you read what is written? So do not insist.

                      Stella wrung out / made on social donations based on memoirs and research of the Cathars, spring 1960
                      1. kalibr
                        8 May 2018 10: 43
                        0
                        So they didn’t have anything special, and the victorious Catholics of course intentionally destroyed everything they could. Fools would be otherwise. But where does the conspiracy thesis. And the monument, yes, a remake, but for some reason you referred to it, right? Can’t I?
            2. Curious
              Curious 7 May 2018 21: 05
              +2
              Throw it, Vyacheslav Olegovich! Or did you decide to determine the maximum depth of a possible dive into the abyss of ignorance?
              1. 3x3zsave
                3x3zsave 7 May 2018 21: 17
                +1
                It is like a financial abyss - you can fall all your life.
              2. kalibr
                8 May 2018 07: 14
                +2
                You know, I’m a pensioner, I have finally completely retired and I have more time. I wonder ... this is the bottom. It’s lovely to read this: the Qatari story has been erased from the memory of mankind and the symbols of that era, which is strange and also leads to different thoughts. Erased !!! And someone has clearly erased the gyrus on the brain ... And nothing!
                1. Curious
                  Curious 8 May 2018 09: 54
                  +1
                  Have you decided to refresh Monk Brant with modern observations?
                  There’s another kind of fool
                  What hatched from an egg
                  Magpies or parrots.
                  Here is another wacky passion:
                  To seem very smart -
                  Always concern those topics.
                  But they see everything at once -
                  Fate brought them to a fool:
                  I did not say a word intelligently!
                  Take you such a fool
                  Like pepper in a mortar, day and night
                  For at least a year tirelessly crush,
                  Do not get the dope out of the boob:
                  Self-deception - the father of deception!
                  More than five hundred years ago, a man wrote, and it’s relevant today,
                  1. kalibr
                    8 May 2018 10: 45
                    +1
                    Yes, you know ... and another Arab wrote in XI: "A noble man is always a renegade among his fellow tribesmen and fellow tribesmen!" Also here and also relevant!
  20. Curious
    Curious 7 May 2018 21: 31
    +1
    3x3zsave,
    Exponential growth is an increase in a quantity when the growth rate is proportional to the value of the quantity itself. If I get away from higher mathematics, which I admit is not very good, then in practice this law is well illustrated by the example of an increase in the number of bacteria in a colony before resource limitations occur. First, one bacterium is divided in two, thereby doubling the size of the population. After the next period of time, each of these two bacteria will again be divided in two, and the population size will double again - now there will be four bacteria. After ten such doublings there will already be more than a thousand bacteria, after twenty - more than a million, and so on. If the population doubles with each division, its growth will continue indefinitely, while there are resources for this. So I wonder, can degradation develop according to this law?
    1. 3x3zsave
      3x3zsave 7 May 2018 22: 27
      0
      Understood what it was about. My opinion is it can. Only this is not an exponent (with this term with a sign), but the result of a degree raised to a power with the next numerical value, that is, 2 squared, 64 cubed, 262144 in the fourth power ... The raid of civilization is very thin, and no one has canceled the entropy.
      1. Curious
        Curious 7 May 2018 22: 32
        +2
        By the way, in the last answer, which was published by the 60% ovis, Veni's features are increasingly visible. The trail clearly leads to the halls of the superethnos.
        1. 3x3zsave
          3x3zsave 7 May 2018 22: 58
          +1
          I noticed. We have a continuous horror here. "Sometimes they come back!" Even Mikado became brutal ...
          1. Curious
            Curious 7 May 2018 23: 19
            +2
            The vice is persistent in us, repentance is feigned;
            Hurry to pay for everything
            Again, through the sin, laughing, the soul glides,
            Tears of cowardice washing his path shameful.
            1. Bar1
              Bar1 8 May 2018 09: 12
              0
              Quote: Curious
              And the fact that I used the verb "answered" to inform your person is a complete coincidence. All the best.

              And the fact that I used the verb "answered" to inform your person is a complete coincidence. All the best.


              How is a Jew different from an Englishman?
              the Englishman leaves without saying goodbye
              and the Jew says goodbye, but does not leave.
              1. Curious
                Curious 8 May 2018 10: 08
                +2
                I repent, repent, spoke. But a very interesting copy came across. Researcher curiosity, you know.
  21. Bar1
    Bar1 8 May 2018 11: 50
    0
    kalibr So they didn't have anything special,,


    how was it "not"? And the huge Qatari castles, probably the largest in the world. But the same Montsegur is so destroyed that it becomes clear that the winners wanted to hide something first of all. So it was, looking at the huge ruins.
    I’m reading Marcal “Monsegur”, which says that the Cathars / Albigensians / Bogomils are Bulgarians, Slavs from the Balkans. Then the Russian place names of the south of Galia / France / Occitania become clear later. Crosses were found in Sweden and he says that historians simply grappled heads- "where in Sweden is this"? The story then becomes interesting, there were wars between the West and the Slavs / Russians, and it was still so to say. Then, little by little, much becomes clear.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 8 May 2018 12: 00
      0
      still interestingly writes. Like that the Galas lived before Qatar, this round cross of the counts of Toulouse cannot be Qatar, but according to chronology it is Galician. But Markal even looked at the old maps France until the end of the 18th century was called Galia, so the Cathars and Gala, they are Celts, they are Celts, this can be quite the same, so it’s with the timeline that traditional historians have a big problem.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 8 May 2018 12: 18
        0
        Yes, the logic is called the same recommended by you Markal


        here were the Bogomils, they disappeared in an unknown place, and the Cathars came - from nowhere and they were the heirs of the ideas of the Bogomils. This "history" is called TI - one of the contradictions, breaks and questions respectively.
  22. kalibr
    8 May 2018 14: 42
    0
    Quote: Bar1
    A huge Qatari castles

    About huge Qatari castles was my article here. At VO ... easy to find. And they were never the biggest. I have been doing castles since 1995, and here my materials on them are published regularly. Montsegur was most heavily destroyed ... during the Second World War, the Germans held the defense there and the Americans "gave them heat." Carcassonne Castle is intact, was restored by Violette Le Duc in the 19 century. The other castles are nearby ... And another tip. Never get carried away by one book by one author! It is always useful to study the problem from different angles, knowing how it is seen by different authors based on different sources. Moreover, the source base is of paramount importance.