Military Review

Siberian divisions: beyond memory

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Siberian divisions: beyond memory



The hardest thing to write about what seems to be known to all, but at the same time is unknown to anyone. There are such topics. And they appeared, alas, in the "light of the decisions of the party and government" of the USSR after the war. Without any logic, in our opinion.

One of these topics is the Siberian divisions, brigades, separate regiments and battalions.

In almost every city that has been affected by the war, there are streets named after Siberian divisions. That is, with the mention in the title of the word "Siberian". The older generation, those who personally met with the participants of the major battles of the Great Patriotic War, remember very well how, for example, the defenders of Moscow responded to the question of who defended the capital from the Germans. Siberians and militia!

However, if you try to learn about the Siberian divisions in the Central Archive of the Ministry of Defense or in the memoirs of our military leaders, you will not find such information. The word "Siberian" is dimmed and replaced by a simple listing of numbers of parts or compounds.

Documents in the Central Archive are classified, and classified as indefinite! They say, on the personal instructions of Comrade Stalin. Even in the award department there is no information about the belonging of servicemen to the Siberian divisions. In short, we failed to find official confirmation of the fighting reputation of the Siberian warriors. Most likely, there are no such documents.

Meanwhile, immediately after the declaration of war, dozens and hundreds of thousands of volunteers came to the military registration and enlistment offices of Siberian cities. Workers, peasants, hunters, residents of distant taiga haunts came ... Hundreds of thousands of applications. As citizens, as men, Siberians showed themselves no worse than other regions.



Meanwhile, what to do was? The European part in 1941 year quickly became occupied territory. And if there was a calculation, then yes, to the inhabitants of the Urals and Siberia. This is logic comparable to the logic of the 152-mm projectile.

The first mention of Siberians in the German (!) Archives refers to the famous counteroffensive under Yelnya. The Germans, unlike us, kept the documents as they were originally. That is why the story about the defenders of Moscow should begin with the counteroffensive under Yelnya.

Many readers know about this operation. Many read about it in the memoirs of Marshal Zhukov. But only a few have read the first edition of this memoir. Single-volume, with a red-white dust jacket. Knowledge of the majority is limited by the official rate. stories and the Internet historical surrogate.

Remember that in your memory pops up at the mention of this operation? The first offensive of the Red Army in the war. Place of birth of the Soviet Guard. The first use of jet mortars "Katyusha". Well thought-out operation of the future Marshal of Victory ...

But, if you look closely at the reports of the Sovinforbyuro of that time, it turns out an interesting detail. Victory reports and summaries of parts and connections ended in 3 of the day! And the operation itself suddenly turned into just an episode of the Smolensk battle. So it is interpreted even today.

Everyone knows that the operation was carried out by two armies. 24 th and 43 th. But during the offensive 43-I army has not achieved significant success. She was forced to take up defense. But 24-I really fought successfully. But the fate of this army is tragic.

So, the 24th Army was formed in Novosibirsk. Moreover, the army included not recruits, but reserve soldiers. Those who were trained even sometimes had combat experience (Khasan and Khalkhin-Gol). As part of the army for the offensive there were 7 rifle divisions, a division of the people's militia, two tank divisions, a motorized division, ten artillery regiments of corps artillery (122-mm cannon of the 1931 model, 152-mm howitzers of the 1934 model, 203-mm howitzers of the 1931 model), the RGK and PTO regiments.

The army caused significant losses to the Germans. I threw them from Moscow for tens of kilometers to the west. However, as often happened at the beginning of the war, the command could not provide the army with reserves. In fact, the 24 Army operated autonomously. What the German scouts reported almost immediately.

Then the Germans acted according to the algorithm that had developed during the first months of the war. Tank strikes, dissection of the army into parts and the environment in the boilers. In this situation, after losing coordination, the soldiers of the Red Army had previously surrendered to subunits and units. It remained only to disarm and send to the camp.



And here the Siberians are first mentioned in the report of one of the regimental commanders. "These are not Red Army men, they are Siberians." The Germans had no experience of contact battles with Siberian units. And they acted exactly as before. The ranks of the soldiers advanced to the positions of the Russians, firing and pouring machine gun fire from the flanks.

However, as soon as the ranks approached the Russian positions, a well-organized, and most importantly, accurate fire from rifles and carbines followed. Even where the fascists reached positions, terrible melee fights began. Not only bayonets, but also sapper shovels, small weaponknives ...

Having lost more than 20 people during these attacks, the Germans refused to use infantry and destroyed the Siberians aviation, artillery and mortars. Infantry and tanks were used for reinforced blockade.

But even in these conditions, a small number of Soviet soldiers managed to break out of the boiler.

But back to the battle for Moscow. Was the number of Siberians there really sufficient to speak about their contribution to the victory near Moscow? So the numbers. In 1941, Moscow was defended by 17 Siberian divisions, 2 rifle brigades, separate regiments and battalions of skiers. Yes, it was these separate ski battalions that you could see on the 1941 parade of the year in Moscow, and the Germans in their rear areas before the next nightmare.



For exceptional services in the defense of the capital, the 32, 78, 82, 93, 119, 133 rifle divisions, 29 and 79 rifle brigades were converted into Guards.

I will not describe the fighting episodes from the life of all these formations and units. We are talking about the features of the combat reputation of Siberians. It is enough to tell about one connection, which is known to most Russians. At least in the famous movie "One Day of the Division Commander."

Almost everyone who has ever traveled along the Volokolamsk Highway at least once in their lives, saw a memorial complex with an eternal flame and a monument to the defenders of Moscow on the 41 kilometer. The eternal flame is now in exactly the place the Germans reached in 1941. It is in the place where the offensive of our troops began.



There is also a mass grave of Soviet soldiers who died at this turn. And the detached tomb of their commander - twice the hero of the Soviet Union, army general Afanasy Pavlantevich Beloborodov. The commander bequeathed to bury himself next to his 41 soldiers of the year.



The 78 Rifle Division Colonel Beloborodova arrived at the 36 echelons near Moscow in October 1941. And immediately it was directed to the most dangerous direction - Istra. 14,5 thousand Siberians against reinforced (22 thousand) SS division "Reich". It was this division, famous in France and Poland, that was supposed to take Moscow.

Talking about the counteroffensive under Yelnya, I mentioned the arming of German and Soviet units. The superiority of the Germans was overwhelming. That is why, despite the heroism and dedication of the soldiers of the Red Army, the Red Army retreated. Everyone retreated, including Siberians.

However, the harsh life has taught Siberians to search for extraordinary solutions. German officers and generals knew our military regulations quite well. Therefore, they could predict the actions of our commanders in various situations. Beloborodov acted differently. He acted using the strengths of his own soldiers.

I'll tell you two episodes from the combat biography of the 78 division.

Roadside villages are usually located on both sides of the highway. So it was located and the village Medvedevo. It was there that another war began for the Germans. If there was a counteroffensive under Yelnya, then in Medvedevo the Germans simply began to beat. Cruel, evil, sparing neither the enemy nor himself. To beat so that the memory of such battles was preserved by German soldiers until the end of life. Who managed to survive there. There were such, I must say.

To begin with, I will quote Yevgeniy Zakharovich Vorobiev, a war correspondent who was next to Boloborodov these days:

"On the outskirts, on the outskirts, stood the division commander 78, then Colonel Beloborodov, and spoke. A word-record was made on the same day:
- Understand, little brothers, well, there is no place for us to retreat. There is no such land where we could retreat, so that we, the Siberians, would not be ashamed to look into the eyes of people ... "


The fact is that during the day, using the fire superiority, the Germans occupied half of the village. The one that was behind the highway. In the morning, preparing the attack on the other half. And the outcome of this attack was predictable. And the division commander decided to carry out a bayonet attack at night!

Only in this case, the Germans could not use machine guns, mortars and tanks. Chances were equalized.

At night, silently, without shouting “Hurray!”, Without noise, the Siberians crossed the highway and split the Germans with bayonets. By morning, the German battalion did not exist. The village was liberated.

Another episode, which is beautifully played in the film I called, also took place in life. But in a slightly different form. Here it is necessary to listen to the general Beloborodov.

“There is a factory in the city of Dedovsk. It was well equipped. And I was entrusted, as commander of the division, with the duty to blow up objects and railways so that the Germans would not be, so to speak, ready road.
And so the factory was prepared for the explosion. I reported to the engineer comrade Bulkin.
We arrived in Dedovsk to the factory. I looked. Soul does not lie. And a half or two kilometers - the village of Rozhdestvenki. There are already Germans. What to do? Blow up or what?
Volkov asks me: "What about the explosion?"
I say: "You know that, Nikolai, the NP division will be here. And if the division commander will be here ... I think we will defend Dedovsk. But if the Germans capture, we will explode along with the factory ..."
K, fortunately the factory was not blown up ... "


Moreover, the division launched an offensive in the new status. Here is an assessment of the actions of Siberians by the then commander, Lieutenant-General Rokossovsky:

"This sudden strike saved the day. The Beloborodov Division made a significant contribution to the decisive battles."

And one more quote. People's Commissariat of Defense:

"For special achievements in the defense of Moscow, rename the 78 th rifle division into the 9 th guards. Assign it to Beloborodov commander Afanasy Pavlantevich the rank of major general."

I do not know if I managed to explain the essence of the Siberian character. The essence of the concept of "military reputation of Siberians". Moreover, I do not in the least detract from the heroism of other formations and units. It is enough to recall the feat of the militia, which we wrote about earlier.



But you must admit, Siberians really fought a little bit wrong. A little bit different. A bit meaner and reckless. Siberians did not like and do not like to run from danger.

And it’s not for nothing that the Germans in the official documents of the times of the war necessarily gave the definition of "Siberian", speaking of combat capabilities of the unit. The resistance of the Siberians the Germans experienced in other battles. But about this - in the next part.
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  1. Cat
    Cat April 26 2018 05: 21
    +7
    An interesting introduction of authors about the streets of Russian cities! I myself was born in Siberian Lane and never wondered why it was called that in the 50s (until that time all the lanes in N. Sergi were nameless).
  2. Mar.Tirah
    Mar.Tirah April 26 2018 05: 53
    +13
    Thank you for the memory. We in Siberia and Northern Kazakhstan have many streets with such names. 79 guards divisions, 314, guards divisions, Sibiryakov guardsmen st. I lived on these streets. Omsk, Tomsk, Krasnoyarsk, Novosibirsk. There they are There is a memory and pride. Some woes authors writing in Russian try to belittle the importance of these divisions. They say that they were not Siberian at all, but divisions transferred from the Far East, after the announcement that Japan was not going to attack us .But where did they come from there? Did they fall off the moon, and most importantly with such names, and in such numbers?
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 26 2018 08: 20
      +3
      you can declare anything you want just in the west divisions have become more needed
      Turks near the oil-bearing Transcaucasia posed a great threat to the USSR, and all Japanese naval bases with ships in them were within the radius of DB-3 from Primorye
    2. Swift
      Swift 1 May 2018 19: 41
      +2
      "there" stood an entire army, since the time of Halingol. And the divisions that arrived from Siberia did not have the names “Siberian”; these are fantasies of the authors of the article. The numbers and the point.
      By the way, in our city, far from Siberian, there is a street of Heroes-Siberians. So everyone remembers the feat of the Siberian fighters.
  3. Cartalon
    Cartalon April 26 2018 06: 25
    +18
    I did not understand, the authors argue that in the 1941 Red Army there were formations called the Siberian Rifle Division? And then, on the orders of Stalin, they were classified?
    The description of the war will come down for children of primary school age, but not as not for a specialized site.
    1. avt
      avt April 26 2018 07: 11
      +2
      Quote: Cartalon
      Siberian Rifle Division? And then, on the orders of Stalin, they were classified?

      Well, yes.
    2. kvs207
      kvs207 April 26 2018 07: 16
      +6
      I agree.
      If the empire had units and formations with the names: Siberian, Caucasian, Turkestan, etc., then the Red Army did not practice this.
      1. igordok
        igordok April 26 2018 07: 33
        +6
        Pskov was liberated by 128 and 376 rifle divisions. In honor of these compounds, the city streets are located in the areas where these divisions crossed the Velikuy River. (ul.128 infantry division, ul. Kuzbass division)
        128SD formed near Omsk, even before the war. Participated in the Finnish War. Is it possible, by the author's definition, to call it Siberian?
        376SD was formed near Kemerovo in 1941, and during the formation it received the name "Kuzbass", but not "Siberian". According to the author, here it is Siberian, although by 1944. the personnel of the division has changed significantly.
        In general, the article is interesting, but the presentation of facts, I do not like.
      2. Cannonball
        Cannonball 9 May 2018 16: 36
        +1
        The Civil was practiced. For example, the 1st Caucasian Cavalry Division. It existed from the 18th to the 20th years. Later, too, for example, the 201st Latvian Rifle (Latvian) Division (41st - 42nd years).

        During the war years, national units were formed in 11 union republics. In total, 66 national military formations were formed in the Red Army - 26 rifle and mountain rifle divisions, 22 cavalry divisions and 18 rifle brigades. Of this number, 37 national military units participated in hostilities on the fronts of World War II.

        Many military units during their existence changed their numbering and names, and in some cases lost their nationality.

        National units existed in the Soviet Army until the mid-50s.
  4. Horst78
    Horst78 April 26 2018 06: 37
    +3
    When I am in central Russia I always wonder why people react to me on an alien.
    1. cabbage
      cabbage April 26 2018 10: 12
      +16
      You probably forget to take off your spacesuit.
  5. andrewkor
    andrewkor April 26 2018 06: 45
    +8
    But Panfilov’s division, formed in Kyrgyzstan, fighting near Volokolamsk, dressed in short fur coats, than not Siberians!
  6. nivander
    nivander April 26 2018 08: 02
    +1
    yeah - if, at Yelnya 43, the army had at least somehow shown itself, then they could have taken Smolensk (30 km away). By the way, the Germans clearly divided Siberian divisions into personnel / non-personnel categories. Siberian, "Khabarovsk", Kazakhstani. And yet - everyone knows about the feat of the Siberians near Moscow, but the bulk of the Siberians went to the Volkhov and Northern Fronts (21,26,46,65,92,114 rifle divisions personnel --59,60 tank divisions personnel111 (2 forms) 265,292,309,311,312,314,327,363,372,374,376
    378,382 mobilization rifle divisions of at least 12 rifle brigades and almost all ski
  7. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 26 2018 08: 35
    +2
    A bit of history. Sequence of events.

    In early September, 41 Soviet intelligence officers Richard Zorhe reported from Japan that
    the Japanese made the final decision to attack the English and American
    forces in the Pacific, not Russia.
    And then the transfer of troops of the Far Eastern District to the West began.
    It took time, and they pulled themselves up to Moscow in November.
    Just when all the Soviet units near Moscow were defeated.
    But the Germans were completely exhausted. Halder read out serviceable
    tanks at the end of November: according to reports from their divisions, 72 were found.
    Halder ordered the cancellation of the assault on Moscow to move to defense.
    But after 2 days, the Red Army launched an offensive with
    fresh and trained Far Eastern divisions.
    A small number of tanks (half of them British) did not allow
    to develop an offensive, but the Germans were driven back from Moscow.
    1. nivander
      nivander April 26 2018 09: 29
      +3
      oh well --- the first fragmentary legends about R. Sorge collected and summarized loudly voiced the press attache of the imperial foreign minister Ribbentrop, Obersturmbannführer Paul Schmidt under the pseudonym Paul Karel in his science fiction book “Hitler Goes East” - and it was in In the context of the USSR brazenly betraying its Western allies without informing them of the open plans of the Japs, the massive transfer of troops from the Far East of Central Asia and the Caucasus began after the Vyazemsky rout defeat Tikhvin and Rostov (it was necessary to somehow patch up the collapsed front). Such a grouping of 1,2,15,17,25,35,36 armies of 13 infantry divisions, the same number of new ones for mobilization, 2 armored, 5 cavalry divisions, 12 armored and 20 infantry brigades remained in the Far East
      1. Swift
        Swift 1 May 2018 19: 52
        0
        I can’t operate with numbers, but I once read about the commander of the Far Eastern district or the front, what was there, and I still have the impression that he was simply confronted with the fact of removing his units and transferring them to the west, and he was ordered to form equivalent from local mobilization reserves. What he successfully did as soon as possible, without weakening the protection of the Far Eastern borders. For which he was awarded government awards, without conducting any fights.
        1. demo
          demo 3 May 2018 23: 14
          +1
          It seems the general’s last name is Afanasenkov.
          If I am not mistaken.
          Only he died in the first year of the war, together with his soldiers defending their homeland.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA April 26 2018 13: 31
      +3
      Quote: voyaka uh
      And then the transfer of troops of the Far Eastern District to the West began.
      It took time, and they pulled themselves up to Moscow in November.

      The transfer began much earlier. And besides Moscow, the divisions marched under the Volkhov - to where the fate of Leningrad was decided.
      Tank, rifle and motorized rifle divisions deployed west in 1941:
      "59 TD from the composition of the 2nd SC, FEF in July is being transferred to Smolensk with a simultaneous reorganization of 108 td.
      69 ppm from the composition of the 2nd SC, FEF in July is being transferred to Smolensk with a simultaneous reorganization of 107 td.
      21 CD from the 26th SC 1st SC, FEF in August-September is being transferred to Karelia, to the composition of the southern task force of the 7th detachment. AND
      26 CD from the 26th SC 1st SC, FEF in August-September transferred to the North-Western Front, in the 11th Army
      32 SD from the 25th A, FEF in September is transferred to the Volkhov, in the 4th division. AND
      114 sd from the 36th A, ZabVO in September is being transferred to Karelia, to the southern task force of the 7th division. AND
      58 TD from the 1st SC, Far Eastern Front in October is transferred to Moscow, to the 30th A of the Western Front.
      60 TD from the 15th A, FEF in October is transferred to the Volkhov, in the 4th division. AND.
      78 sd from the 35th A, Far Eastern Front in October is transferred to Moscow, to the 16th A of the Western Front.
      82 msd from the 17th A, ZabVO in October is transferred under Moscow, to the 5th A of the Western Front.
      92 SD from the 25th A, FEF in October is transferred to the Volkhov, in the 4th division. AND.
      93 sd from the 36th A, ZabVO in October is transferred to Moscow, to the 43rd A of the Western Front.
      413 sd from the composition of the 1st SC, the Far Eastern Front in October is transferred under Serpukhov to the 50th A of the Bryansk Front.
      65 sd from the 36th A, ZabVO in October-November is transferred under the Volkhov and enters the 4th detachment. AND
      415 sd from the structure of the 25th A, the Far Eastern Front in November-December is transferred under Serpukhov to the 49th A of the Western Front.
      239 battalion from the composition of the 1st SC, the Far Eastern Front in December is transferred to Ryazan, to the 10th A of the Western Front. "
      1. Yura Yakovlev
        Yura Yakovlev April 26 2018 17: 07
        +1
        In your list I do not see 370 sd formed in Tomsk and sent to the North-Western Front. After the capture of Berlin, it received the name Brandenburg.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA April 26 2018 19: 22
          0
          Quote: Yura Yakovlev
          In your list I do not see 370 sd formed in Tomsk and sent to the North-Western Front.

          370 SD was formed in the Siberian Military District. I gave data only for the Far Eastern Federal District and ZabVO.
    3. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak April 26 2018 14: 55
      +1
      voyaka "But after 2 days the Red Army launched an offensive with
      fresh and trained Far Eastern divisions. "
      The offensive began on December 5, 1941. By that time, the following reserves had been concentrated near Moscow. At the disposal of the Soviet General Staff were eight fresh armies:
      "- 1st shock army of Lieutenant General V.I. Kuznetsov;
      - 20th Army of Lieutenant General A.A. Vlasov;
      - 10th Army of Lieutenant General F.I.Golikov, which was formed mainly in the Moscow Military District;
      - 26th Army (soon becoming the 2nd shock) of Lieutenant General G.G.Sokolov, formed in the Volga Military District;
      - The 39th Army of Lieutenant General I.A. Bogdanov, formed in the Arkhangelsk Military District;
      - The 57th Army of Lieutenant General D.I. Ryabyshev, which was formed in the North Caucasus Military District in the region of Stalingrad;
      - The 60th Army (soon becoming the 3rd shock) of Lieutenant General M.A. Purkaev, formed in the Volga Military District;
      - The 61st Army of Colonel General F.I. Kuznetsov, also formed in the Volga Military District.
      The first two managed to take part in the last defensive battles near Moscow, supporting the crumbling front of the 16th and 30th armies. In December 1941, the 1st shock, 20th and 10th armies took part in the counterattack of the Western Front in the Moscow [13] direction. "
      Isaev Alexey Valerevich
      A short course in the history of the Second World War.
      The onset of Marshal Shaposhnikov p. 13.
    4. Proxima
      Proxima April 26 2018 15: 49
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      A bit of history. Sequence of events.

      Yes Alexey recourse you would write a story for the nursery group children. Honestly good Simple, but the kids have something in their head. My 5-year-old daughter tells me such stories when I take her from a kindergarten. She goes to St. Petersburg kindergarten and they hold lessons in patriotic education. He tells me a lot about the blockade, about the bombing, about the way of life ..... hi
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 26 2018 20: 25
        +1
        , "but something remains in the kids’s head" ///

        I am glad. good So, I'm writing normally. Printed text should be concise enough
        and understandable. Without water, preferably.
        1. Proxima
          Proxima April 26 2018 22: 56
          +1
          Quote: voyaka uh
          , "but something remains in the kids’s head" ///

          I am glad. good So, I'm writing normally. Printed text should be concise enough
          and understandable. Without water, preferably.

          I would have the honor to discuss with you, we will not go far, from your first lines - about the “message” of Richard Sorge, but you have to sleep tomorrow for work. If anything, ask yourself about the whole cluster of his "astrological predictions", which he gave before and after. And believe me, Stalin, making a decision on the transfer of troops from the Far East, was guided not only by his "SMS" hi
          1. Swift
            Swift 1 May 2018 19: 57
            0
            just a couple of days ago they repeated the "Option" Omega "" on this topic :)
  8. cabbage
    cabbage April 26 2018 09: 29
    +21
    But you must admit, Siberians really fought a little bit wrong. A little bit different. A bit meaner and reckless. Siberians did not like and do not like to run from danger.

    And it’s not for nothing that the Germans in the official documents of the times of the war necessarily gave the definition of "Siberian", speaking of combat capabilities of the unit. The resistance of the Siberians the Germans experienced in other battles. But about this - in the next part.


    A slippery author advocates sharing the quality of Soviet units, on the basis of territorial formation. In this sense, I agree with Comrade Stalin, who, according to the author, forbade such a separation. Divisions need to be assigned the geographical names of the places where they successfully fought (Stalingrad, Kiev, Minsk, etc.).
    Siberian divisions surprised the Germans in the fall of 1941, first of all, with the presence of a full staff of personnel and weapons, which allowed them to provide qualitative resistance. Over time, a large number of recruits from other places appeared in these divisions.
    My dad went to the front at the age of 17 in February 1943. My tongue wouldn’t turn to invite readers to agree that it fought somehow differently from everyone else. A little better, because he took part in the Belarusian or Vistula - Oder operation.
    All Soviet citizens who fought at the front are heroes! All Soviet citizens who worked in the rear are heroes!
    Shame on traitors!
    1. chenia
      chenia April 26 2018 09: 54
      +4
      Quote: cabbage
      Siberian divisions surprised the Germans in the fall of 1941, first of all, with the presence of a full staff of personnel and weapons, which allowed them to provide qualitative resistance.


      And the most important thing. at least four months of combat coordination (usually 3-4 months, the minimum period for the creation of a combat team.

      The tragedy of 1941 is precisely because we had to constantly throw (at the beginning of the war) raw, newly formed compounds (with minimal BP).

      As soon as we had such formations (winter 1941), the war went according to other rules.
      In 1942, our failures (the result of mistakes of command and losses of 1941) are connected with attempts tread on (Leningrad, Rzhev, near Kharkov, Crimea).

      There is even more, due to losses in 1941. If there were 2-3 associations more in these operations (with no lost weapons), it could have been different (despite the "jambs" of command.
      1. cabbage
        cabbage April 26 2018 10: 05
        +3
        And the most important thing. at least four months of combat coordination (usually 3-4 months, the minimum period for the creation of a combat team.


        I agree.
    2. Yura Yakovlev
      Yura Yakovlev April 26 2018 20: 52
      0
      I completely agree with you, but you must agree that you will not drink the experience.
      If a hunter-hunter gets to the front, then he preys on the enemy as a beast, and it makes no difference to him if he gets into the eye of a squirrel, or his opponent. It will not be enough patriotism alone to win, more experience and skill are needed.
      1. cabbage
        cabbage April 26 2018 21: 29
        +2
        True, hunting hunters are good. But it is unlikely that all Far Eastern divisions could be equipped with hunter-fishermen. Fighting regular military personnel, well-armed and trained.
      2. gladcu2
        gladcu2 April 28 2018 12: 45
        0
        The army is not a hunting club.
        There, they often peel potatoes and snipers cooks.
        In the army, the personal qualities of soldiers are averaged out, and individualism is harshly suppressed. And it is right.
        1. Yura Yakovlev
          Yura Yakovlev April 28 2018 22: 34
          +1
          The winter survival experience in a wooded area cannot be averaged, it can only be transferred to those who do not have it. Maybe in the Canadian army differently? I won’t argue, I don’t know.
  9. Moskovit
    Moskovit April 26 2018 09: 48
    +6
    I remember a funny story from childhood, from the USSR. We, in the Novosibirsk region, held another meeting with veterans. And they invited the grandfather of one of our peers. Grandfather was honored. Several orders and medals, but in peacetime he received the Order of Lenin for labor. He was straightforward man. And so it means that there is a meeting, a feat of the people, then, behold, everyone is cheating on a piece of paper. In the end, like there are any questions. Everyone is silent. And one pioneer suddenly asks, why did you get the medal? I don’t remember exactly which one, I won’t lie.
    Then grandfather says it was in '41. They were near Moscow in the fall. Katyusha struck, several missiles did not explode, and then they were secret. They were sent to collect unexploded missiles. They were then secret. they were found, dragged to their trenches, then the Germans fired at them, someone was killed, someone was wounded, but they carried their burden, and received a reward for this. The pioneer says, but how did you carry it? He says he took the armpit disc and ran. When the Germans started firing, he ran as fast as he had never run. I got a bullet in the back, but I didn’t even notice from the adrenaline, only in the trench did I understand.
    The hospital quickly patched up and again to the front. But in the winter everything turned out to be much more serious. Caught under mortar fire in the open field. He was wounded, lost consciousness, woke up, killed around, no one. Where to crawl, what to do, all in the blood. I thought the khan, suddenly voices, the Germans thought, no, our orderlies are dragging a wolves with the wounded. I say, only a hand from a snowdrift could raise, there was no strength to scream. They are to him, they say the drag is full, we can only bind you to it. In such a tug and brought to their own. How I survived, I don’t understand. But the wound was severe. Commissa, several fragments are still traveling through the body. Here is such a non-heroic feat of the Siberians.
    1. cabbage
      cabbage April 26 2018 10: 10
      0
      What question have you answered now?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Mic1969
      Mic1969 4 May 2018 09: 21
      +1
      The author of the article, and you after him want to say that the Siberians are heroes and the rest is crap?
  10. Was mammoth
    Was mammoth April 26 2018 10: 09
    +7
    "I do not know if I was able to explain the essence of the Siberian character."
    "But you must admit, the Siberians really fought a little bit wrong."

    And who else fought a little bit wrong?
    I have an auntSiberian went to the front as a volunteer. AND, two uncles from Alma-Ata, not the Siberians are in the same mass grave near the village of Kryukovo.
  11. vnord
    vnord April 26 2018 10: 14
    +1
    My grandfather was near Moscow, only the division was transferred from the Far East ...
  12. Fedor1
    Fedor1 April 26 2018 10: 37
    0
    Somehow a conversation arose about the defense of Moscow with a resident of Ukraine, so he is convinced that due to the fact that Ukraine took the first blow this saved Moscow, the question is, what about the participation of the Siberians, he laughed and waved his hand. Even the Muscovites themselves do not want to know about Siberians because this is inconvenient to their prevailing worldviews. And Moscow was really defended by people from Siberia, and to a greater extent Siberian peasants.
    1. Cartalon
      Cartalon April 26 2018 11: 54
      +3
      At the beginning of the operation in the Moscow direction there were 1. 2 million people plus reserves. Are you sure that the Siberians, for all their remarkable qualities, made up the majority?
    2. CentDo
      CentDo April 26 2018 12: 38
      +3
      Even Muscovites themselves do not want to know about Siberia because this is inconvenient to their prevailing worldviews

      You would be better off about what you don’t know. Muscovites (real native Muscovites) remember well who defended the city. And they will never belittle their merits.
      1. Cannonball
        Cannonball 9 May 2018 16: 42
        +1
        21 division of the national militia.
    3. Swift
      Swift 1 May 2018 20: 13
      +3
      Moscow, and with it all of Siberia and the rest of Russia, were defended by all the fighters and commanders of the entire Red Army, and all other paramilitary organizations, as well as all the workers and peasants who gave all their strength to supply the front.
  13. Loess
    Loess April 26 2018 10: 53
    +4
    Something somehow I do not understand. Do authors single out fighters of Siberian divisions as a separate nationality?
    1. Pattern
      Pattern April 27 2018 00: 05
      +2
      Precisely noticed. A new nation from another planet.
  14. kan123
    kan123 April 26 2018 11: 03
    +3
    The Siberians missed the whole mess - they were assembled armies, strongly motivated, educated - who was the commander in chief there - set up the Siberian Army. What is clear - the Halkin Goal recently died down, and the Kuril Islands turned into a bridgehead, which they would not create except for aggression.
    Firstly, we read different books — if you read two books, two “volumes” mean words) - Zhukov — then he marks 7 divisions that entered the Moscow Region as a spring that had been squeezed for a long time - and there it straightened a little - yes so Guderian went nuts - where such power comes from - we have already beaten them ten times.
    Secondly, in order to create such conditions for the Siberians, the European part of Russia had already thrashed Hitler for several months. Siberians are excellent shooters - hunting - poaching - skiing - Zhukov did not focus on them - they sent too few divisions. He noted the Siberians that while they were driving there they became infected with militancy - the whole armada according to Zhukov, George Konstantinich, was restrained by the people's militia - when the Siberians began to arrive (I specially write with a capital letter) - the Germans simply crumbled.
    That is, on the one hand, it was an infusion of fresh blood into the army, and secondly, they did not need to be arrogant - there were too few of them - to influence. They even played a detrimental role - Stalin still evolved, thought that he had taken the whole bank - because of these divisions - already in 1942 he wanted to solve everything - because the Siberians powerfully walked over the frostbitten Germans.
  15. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 26 2018 11: 53
    +3
    "A little bit meaner and reckless. The Siberians did not like and do not like to run from danger." ///

    This is not the case at all. Muscovites who signed up for the militia, too
    did not run from danger. But the Siberians were taught to shoot accurately, to run across and crawl correctly. Therefore, they had a chance to approach the Germans and, shooting aiming, to throw off the position or force to retreat. And the militias and hastily formed infantry divisions were shot from machine guns another hundred meters from the enemy. When they did not have time to make a single aimed shot.
    1. Forcecom
      Forcecom April 26 2018 12: 18
      +9
      I fully support.
      Sibiryachki say? Or maybe it was the Leningrad Sebiryachki defended? Or were they simple “Red Army men” who, according to affectors, raised their hands to the sky at the sight of the Germans?
      Guderian went to Tula with less than fifty serviceable tanks, I wonder who destroyed everything else / disabled - also probably the Siberians by the power of thought when they were transferred to the West in trains? Or maybe all the same it was done by "simple hand-raised Red Army men"? Did fresh personnel divisions from the Eastern districts hit the units of the Wehrmacht that were already bloodless in battles and exhausted by the "simple Red Army" and threw them away?
      the authors embark on very thin ice, raising the theme of the superiority and "slimness" of various people who lived in the USSR.
      Everyone fought, everyone died too, Victory belongs to everyone too, and there is no need to isolate anyone.
      1. Fitter65
        Fitter65 April 26 2018 14: 12
        +1
        Quote: Forcecom
        Or maybe it was Sebiryachki Leningrad defended?

        "Sebiryachki" who is this? So for fun. The husband of my grandmother’s younger sister, Yakovlev Pyotr Andrianovich, a Siberian from the village of Chingissa, Ordynsky District, Novosibirsk Region, served at the border post in the village of Slavyanka (those famous 3 barracks were built with him), Primorsky Krai. to the war in 1942 (I don’t remember exactly, he didn’t tell much, but now I won’t specify it yet) they were called the Far Easterners. Moreover, in the Siberian divisions there were conscripts from the western regions along with the native Siberians, and in considerable quantities, moreover, just the pre-war draft. Then the evacuees had already called ... In the defense of the same Brest Fortress there were quite a few Red Army soldiers called up from Siberia and the Far East ... So no one is isolating anyone, remember the same famous Ural Corps, how many people from different areas served there Union, but all of them are called URALIANS !!! And among other Leningrad Siberians defended, because there were not a few of them in the units and subunits that fought on the Leningrad Front ...
        1. Forcecom
          Forcecom April 26 2018 14: 35
          +3
          "Sibiryachki" is primarily those who are poorly versed (or not at all versed in the history of the Second World War) with their fingers wide open, that if it weren’t for their fathers and grandfathers who arrived in the Moscow direction in mid-autumn 41, as part of fresh personnel divisions of a pre-formed unit from the East Soviet Union districts, then the war would be lost, and we all, the inhabitants of the European part of Russia, should owe them (not their fathers and grandfathers, namely them) because, in their opinion, our fathers and grandfathers did not know how to fight and only did what they fled and gave up.
          My grandfather, a native of the city of Teykovo, Ivanovo Region, from 41 to 43 raised his fighter to protect the Leningrad sky, 9 shot down, died in 44, do you think that it is worse?
          1. Fitter65
            Fitter65 April 26 2018 15: 02
            0
            Quote: Forcecom
            My grandfather, a native of the city of Teykovo, Ivanovo Region, from 41 to 43 raised his fighter to protect the Leningrad sky, 9 shot down, died in 44, do you think that it is worse?

            Well, start with where you saw my counting is better, worse?
            Quote: Forcecom
            "Siberians"

            It is written without a soft sign. This time. I don’t think that my own grandfather, who died near Moscow in January 1941, is worse or better than yours. I don’t think that my other grandfather, my grandmother’s middle sister’s husband, who both left the army in the spring of 1941 and then guns towed the war on different fronts , then shells for them. He just brought back a couple of fragments from the war and several medals. He did not kill one Fritz, but he lost two ZiSa and one Studer ...
            1. Swift
              Swift 1 May 2018 20: 22
              +2
              not you, but the authors of the article contrast the other fighters with the Siberians precisely with a tendency to allegedly run away from the enemy.
              But in general, based on the example of your dialogue, we can conclude that the authors of the article achieve their goal - to drive a wedge between the Russians, or if anyone, the citizens of Russia, even using the heroic past of our fathers and grandfathers. Rotten article
      2. domokl
        domokl April 26 2018 15: 00
        +4
        Quote: Forcecom
        Or maybe it was Sebiryachki Leningrad defended?

        All fools, and today we are smart ... I do not know who defended Leningrad. Born in a small Siberian town. So there is not one hundred near Leningrad lay down. Including my grandmother's sister. The second sister was commissioned there by injury ...
        Insult Siberians are not worth it. It does not do you the honor.
        1. Forcecom
          Forcecom April 26 2018 16: 24
          +4
          Respected Fitter65 You yourself were the first to decide to go through your Worthy Ancestors with an indication of their military merits, so I just pointed out that everything was fought regardless of the place of birth, if you need I can also go through your ancestors - the war and the blockade left few of them alive.
          As for the insult of the Siberians, Dear domokl I had no purpose to offend the memory of those who gave their lives for our country. However, the parable repeated from time to time snapped at the edge that if it weren’t for the outstanding stamina and courage of the Siberian Divisions in the fall of 41, they would have lost the war already in December, as they say the inhabitants of the European part of the USSR didn’t know how to fight, but only draped from borders (by the way, these are not my words, I heard this phrase from a resident of Novosibirsk though with a lot of "black speech", as by the way, in your opinion, he did not insult me?)
          As it was pointed out more than once in the comments from the Eastern Districts, deployed, personnel and fully equipped units were transferred to the Moscow direction, this was primarily due to their significantly greater combat effectiveness compared to those divisions that were already at the front.
          As for the excerpts from the memoirs of the German military leaders indicated in the article, one should not forget that they somehow had to explain their failures, remember the superiority of the T-34 over the Pz3 and early modifications of the Pz4 Guderian also did not immediately notice in his memoirs. "However, during the journey, the dog was able to grow up."
          Everyone fought, everyone died too, Victory belongs to all the peoples of the USSR, it’s not worth anyone to highlight the “special qualities”.
          1. Swift
            Swift 1 May 2018 20: 27
            +1
            Yes, there was no need to explain it to the Germans. They, like ours, were supposed to transmit to the command all the information about the enemy that became available. Including the place of formation of the unit, and its combat path.
        2. cabbage
          cabbage April 26 2018 21: 57
          +3
          My father, a native of a small village near Voronezh, went to the front at the age of 17. He fought like everyone else. 2 wounds, 1 concussion. It never occurred to him to talk about the exceptional qualities of Voronezh fighters.
          Soviet citizens fought and Soviet citizens also came from the USSR.
        3. Swift
          Swift 1 May 2018 20: 29
          +2
          the authors of the article insulted other citizens of the USSR, opposing their Siberians with a tendency to run from the enemy.
          I think so, they are seeking a conflict between the Russian people.
    2. BAI
      BAI April 26 2018 13: 18
      +3
      Most importantly, from Siberia came fully provided with weapons, equipment, trained full-blooded personnel divisions. And not hastily knocked together, poorly armed, not trained divisions, hastily forming divisions in the European part of the USSR.
      But it should be noted that skillful use of existing troops was of great importance (the article already mentioned this). Rokossovsky killed one day a full-blooded tank division
      On November 16, Rokossovsky threw the 58th Panzer Division just transferred to him into battle. The division arrived from the Far East and joined the army on the 14th, did not have time to reconnoiter the terrain and location of the enemy. And then she was thrown into a frontal blow and, as usual, through a swamp. Many tanks got stuck and failed, the rest were shot by the Germans from disguised artillery positions. In one attack, the division irretrievably lost 157 tanks of 198 and 1731 killed and wounded - a third of the personnel.

      True, Rokossovsky was following Zhukov’s order. (The next day, 2 cavalry divisions from Central Asia died in the same way).
      While the 4 tank brigade of Katukov
      4th det. tank brigade formed on the basis of the Directive Deputy. NPO No. 725373ss dated September 14.09.1941, 671 in Stalingrad. GKO Decree No. 13.09.1941ss of 20/1941/34 GABTU was obliged to complete the formation of the brigade by September 1, 46. T-56 combat vehicles were received from the conveyor of the Stalingrad Tractor Plant. Crew members took part in the assembly of vehicles. A company of heavy tanks KV-6 arrived from the Urals. A total of 20 tanks were received (there is a version of 34 30 KV, 7 T-15 XNUMX BT-XNUMX tanks). The motorized rifle battalion was formed from natives of the Stalingrad and Saratov regions. Artillery units formed from parts of the XNUMXth TD.

      According to the former commissar of the tank regiment of the brigade Katukov, reserve colonel Y. Ya. Komlov, the regiment received 7 heavy KV tanks and 22 T-34 tanks.

      Four dozen tanks (1 battalion - completely on the BT-7) successfully restrained the entire tank army of Guderian.
      As you know, the Panfilov Division formed in Kazakhstan showed itself very well.
      1. chenia
        chenia April 26 2018 14: 03
        +1
        Quote: BAI
        Most importantly, from Siberia came fully provided with weapons, equipment, trained full-blooded personnel divisions.


        I agree. The main thing istrained and (who managed to create a combat team, there is such a subtlety). And here it doesn’t matter where. If the situation allowed, it would be better to withdraw from the battle formation after 1/3 of the losses, to understaff .. And not to create new ones.
        But alas. the Germans didn’t allow us at the beginning of the war.

        Quote: BAI
        While the 4 tank brigade of Katukov


        Small clarification. That was a little earlier.
        And in that time 1 Guards (the former 4 TBbr.) was just preparing (as part of the Cov.group of the Dovator) for the offensive (15 km from 58 TD).
        And finding between them 316 SD, too.
        Rokosovsky asked for a day to prepare, Zhukov did not. The enemy also did not give 16. On 11.41 the offensive of the 4th TG of the Wehrmacht began.

        Then 1 Guards. TBR covered the withdrawal (already) of 8 Guards SD
  16. Gopnik
    Gopnik April 26 2018 12: 21
    +4
    "The documents in the Central Archive are classified, and secret indefinitely! They say, on the personal instructions of Comrade Stalin. Even in the award department there is no information about the membership of the military personnel in the Siberian divisions. In short, we could not find official confirmation of the military reputation of the Siberian soldiers."

    Hey, what a game ... It's just not true.

    "But you must admit, the Siberians really fought a little bit differently. A little bit differently. A little bit more meaner and recklessly."

    We will not agree. Just like most other divisions with Russian personnel.

    "And it is not for nothing that the Germans in official documents of the time of the war necessarily gave the definition of" Siberian ", speaking about the combat capabilities of the compound."

    This is a fantasy. There was no "required". Maximum, individual cases at the beginning of the war, as an indicator of the Russian use of the deep reserve and the memory of the WWII with its "Siberian arrows".

    PySy If anything, my grandfather and great-grandfather the Siberians fought in the Second World War.
    1. Nagaibak
      Nagaibak April 26 2018 19: 20
      +2
      Gopnik "This is a fantasy. There was no" obligatory ". Maximum, some cases at the beginning of the war, as an indicator of the Russian use of a deep reserve and memory from the WWII with its" Siberian arrows "
      All right, the Germans' memory of Siberians comes from the First World War. Siberian corps spoiled their blood then. Near Moscow, Siberians also recorded divisions from the Urals, Central Asia, and the Far East. In addition, there were divisions castled from other sectors of the front. 2 Kav corps generally hell knows where it came from.))) Victory near Moscow is the merit of the whole country.
  17. BAI
    BAI April 26 2018 13: 04
    +1
    78th Infantry Division of Colonel Beloborodov.
    Division formed April 3, 1932 in the city of Tomsk based on the 40th Infantry Regiment and the Tomsk Infantry Division as the 78th Infantry Division (1st formation).
    In 1940 she was relocated to Khabarovsk. By the beginning of World War II, it was deployed in the Ussuri Territory, and was part of the Far Eastern Front.
    This is not the Siberian, but the Far Eastern division. In the essays devoted to this division and included in the collection "Fire Blizzard" of front-line correspondent Yevgeny Petrov, this division is called: "Far Eastern". and soldiers by the Far East. The division fought excellently, but is not suitable for illustrating the actions of Siberians. The Far East is not Siberia.
    1. domokl
      domokl April 26 2018 15: 07
      0
      Have you seen the photo from Volokolamki? Where is the general of the Beloborod army buried? Take a look. Those who put a monument did not agree with you ...
      1. BAI
        BAI April 26 2018 16: 36
        +1
        So the monument was erected by people who do not know history. Front-line Petrov, who was in the battle formations of the division and personally talking with Beloborodov, was somehow more visible at the scene than dozens of years later by strangers.
        1. domokl
          domokl April 26 2018 19: 58
          0
          This Beloborodov did not know the story? He created it there ... Memorial was created during his lifetime. And he was buried there in the 1990 year. Oh well...
          Why is it possible to believe Petrov, and Belovorodov is impossible?
          1. BAI
            BAI April 26 2018 21: 24
            +3
            What does Beloborodov have to do with it? The point is that during the battles near Moscow, front-line correspondent Petrov was at the forefront of the division, as well as personally talking with rank-and-file fighters, commanders and directly with the division commander — then still Colonel Beloborodov.
            And if you are talking about a complex in Bullfinches, then pay attention - the complex is dedicated to
            On the memorial plaques of the memorial the memory of two armies, 26 divisions, 6 infantry brigades was immortalized, and a list of 19 Siberian soldiers awarded the title Heroes of the Soviet Union was carved during the battle of Moscow.

            The authors, in order not to offend (not to forget) anyone that is absolutely correct, called all military units and formations that arrived from beyond the Urals “Siberians”, which is not correct, even if only from the point of view of geography. (There are parts formed in the European part of the USSR).
            There are also problems with history. Can you explain how the Tiger, which is represented there, has to do with the battle of Moscow?

            I certainly respect and thank the creators of the museum complex
            The creators of the museum were local residents, activists L.M. Smirnova, V.A. Samoilova, A.N. Antonov under the leadership of V.F. Sperka. Pupils of the Snegiryov secondary and eight-year schools provided great assistance in the creation.

            they raised a matter of great importance, but in some ways they were mistaken.

            Here we see (for example) the 4th tank brigade of Katukov, which had nothing to do with Siberia, etc.
            This is a generalized monument to ALL defenders of Moscow.
            And Beloborodov’s division is Far Eastern (you know, geography is such a science).
  18. viacheslav77
    viacheslav77 April 26 2018 13: 15
    0
    Exactly Siberian? Were there any Far Eastern ones? Or what's the difference, anyway beyond the MKAD?
    1. domokl
      domokl April 26 2018 15: 10
      +2
      Were Even the cavalry from Wed.Azii were. And the Cossack were later. And what does that change? Sniper from Yakutia were. But, as it seems to me, this, too, must be remembered and not forgotten ...
      Partizan Belarusian or Ukrainian, we call it Belarusian or Ukrainian. Although everyone fought there ... But who was the basis?
      1. Swift
        Swift 1 May 2018 20: 36
        0
        the basis was sabotage groups abandoned due to the front line.
        :)
  19. Moskovit
    Moskovit April 26 2018 13: 18
    +3
    It seems to me that the ability of Siberians to shoot accurately is overestimated. After all, Siberia and the Far East were sparsely populated. Well, how many hunters are there? The main replenishment came from cities, and there were few people with guns. Skiing, endure the cold is yes. Probably more angry, arrogant and more decisive, because many former prisoners settled, this really affects the character.
    1. domokl
      domokl April 26 2018 15: 13
      +1
      About the cold ... Talked a long time ago with one sergeant from the Beloborodov division. He defended in the Istra district of der. Castrovo, in my opinion. After the war he returned there. And called from the Kemerovo region. He says that many froze in the first week. The cold was exactly Siberian. And the humidity is more ... But they fought and stopped.
      1. Moskovit
        Moskovit April 27 2018 00: 21
        +3
        Yes, I judge by myself). At school, they skied before -17, and in general, -25-30 was not considered to be some kind of especially serious frost. But in the Moscow region, humidity in the cold is certainly more unpleasant than dry Siberian frost.
  20. nivander
    nivander April 26 2018 13: 19
    +5
    my paternal grandfather fought near Tikhvin — Siberian riflemen were very well dressed and armed — for example, in the company where my grandfather served, the best riflemen received ten-shot Li-enfield No. 1 carbines with a hefty bayonet dagger. in addition, most of the soldiers already fought in the snow and cold - someone for the Reds, someone for the Kolchak .-- for my grandfather (1901 gr. Yeniseysk) this was the third civil war, he fought for the whites, then he was called up to the Red Army for The war alarm of 1927 was fought on the CER. According to his stories, the Germans installed wire fences directly in the snow - the next snow they would close it they would lift it --- therefore, we dug tunnels in the snow right under the stakes and when the attack began, the Siberians quickly found themselves in a location about " Fritz who had gone away --- the massacre was such that the snow and felt boots swelled up quickly from the blood ----- in the middle of the battle, the grandfather and the soldiers of his company heard short whistles — this is a sign from the “throw everything here run” command platoon --- when the soldiers ran to their To a 50-year-old lieutenant, he ordered everyone to shoot down the slope --- grandfather took up a position in the bushes and began looking for targets ---- God's mother the entire slope and the entire plain was covered with poppies as Germans escaping in deep snow --- by them machine guns fired mortars R. "That day I committed a sin 47 times" - sometimes my grandfather said
  21. BAI
    BAI April 26 2018 13: 47
    +1
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Halder read out serviceable
    tanks at the end of November: according to reports from their divisions, 72 were found.
    Halder ordered the cancellation of the assault on Moscow to move to defense.
    But after 2 days, the Red Army launched an offensive with
    fresh and trained Far Eastern divisions.
    A small number of tanks (half of them British) did not allow
    to develop an offensive, but the Germans were driven back from Moscow.

    What interesting data.
    1.
    In late November, after it became known from undercover sources that Japan had no plans to attack the Soviet Union, about 10 divisions and hundreds of tanks were transferred from the Far East to Moscow. The troops of the Western, Kalinin and South-Western fronts were equipped with new divisions, as a result of which, by the beginning of the offensive, the Soviet group in the Moscow direction consisted of more than 1,1 million soldiers, 7700 guns and mortars, 750 tanks, as well as about 1 aircraft. However, it was opposed by a group of German troops, not inferior, but even superior in number. The number of personnel reached 1,7 million, tanks and aircraft were 1200 and 650, respectively. -

    You could say this:
    The number of military equipment of the Red Army:

    Guns and mortars - 7.600 units.
    Tanks and self-propelled guns - 990 units.
    Aircraft - 677 units.

    2. The number of troops of the Wehrmacht - 1.750.000 people.

    The number of military equipment:

    Guns and mortars - 13.680 units.
    Tanks and self-propelled guns - 1.683 units.
    Aircraft - 1.354 * units.


    3. Aspect ratio (RKKA: Wehrmacht):

    Personnel - 1: 1,4
    Guns and mortars - 1: 1,8
    Tanks and self-propelled guns - 1: 1,7
    Aircraft - 1: 2

    Those. Germans were far from a weak adversary.
    2.
    half of them are british
    Where is this from?
    Lend-Lease Supplies:


    361 tanks is 30% of 990, not half. And this is if ALL Lend-Lease tanks for 1941 will suddenly appear on December 5, 1941 near Moscow (without a single loss).
    In this case,
    In the battle of Moscow, imported military equipment was 20%

    Nobody reduces the role of Lend-Lease, but there is no need to exaggerate.
  22. Fitter65
    Fitter65 April 26 2018 13: 56
    +1
    Siberians really fought a little bit wrong. A little bit different. A little bit meaner and reckless. The Siberians did not and do not like to run from danger.

    Yes, we are !!! Although I have lived in the Far East for the last 28 years, I love my native NOVOSIBIRSK, the city in which my great-grandfather and grandfather built the opera and ballet theater in the 30s, the city where Pokryshkin himself was born and lived, where there is SIBIRYAKOV - GUARDIETS square. And we always knew in childhood, if a Siberian, then it’s necessarily a guard ...
  23. Retired2012
    Retired2012 April 26 2018 16: 23
    +6
    Yes, the Siberian regiments went to the front .... But Siberia to this day cannot restore human potential .....
    1. Gopnik
      Gopnik April 26 2018 17: 54
      +2
      As, in fact, the whole of Russia
  24. Konstantin Golenkov
    Konstantin Golenkov April 26 2018 17: 20
    0
    The Red Army introduced White Walkers and the Wild) Our Siberians are not a miss.
  25. Ham
    Ham April 26 2018 19: 19
    0
    the author even again deduced some sort of conspiracy theory ... they hush up, huh ... the seekers will find out, for example, since childhood I knew about the "Siberian" divisions and Zhukov wrote it to Katukov and other memoirs. The author also forgot about the Far East, and you could intrigue the article
    1. domokl
      domokl April 26 2018 20: 02
      +1
      And the article about the Far East? The author also forgot about Caucasians, about Tatars, Armenians, Jews and another hundred and fifty nations. So write you. So that we remember ...
  26. Altona
    Altona April 26 2018 20: 43
    +2
    Quote: voyaka uh
    But the Siberians were taught to shoot accurately, to run across and crawl correctly. Therefore, they had a chance to approach the Germans and, shooting aiming, to throw off the position or force to retreat. And the militias and hastily formed infantry divisions were shot from machine guns another hundred meters from the enemy. When they did not have time to make a single aimed shot.

    ---------------------------------
    If a person was a hunter-fisherman, who had literally an animal instinct for danger and for whom the wilderness was like a home, then he certainly had a great advantage over an ordinary city man, since he had already been trained in a lot. I think everyone who fought deserves respect. And the Urals, and Volga, and from the Non-Black Earth region. And whoever ensured Victory in the rear, took care of the evacuated, worked at the machine, they are all heroes. And the contribution and feat of the Siberian soldiers, in addition to archival data, is overgrown with legends. I have repeatedly heard stories about hunting cooperatives from Siberia, which, like the special forces "target accomplices" near Moscow, have returned to their places of permanent deployment.
  27. tasha
    tasha April 29 2018 15: 50
    +1
    I think that the authors are mistaken. This is not about some features of the inhabitants of Siberia and the Far East. I can only assume that the lost personnel divisions, which consisted of conscripts, were replaced by divisions of older people, more fundamentally, perhaps ..., with a different life experience.
  28. Swift
    Swift 1 May 2018 19: 30
    +2
    Do not be offended, Siberians, but not only Siberians and militias defended Moscow. The soldiers of the entire Red Army defended Moscow, and the NKVD — the same border guards who had come forward to defend the USSR with their breasts. If not for them, the Siberians would not even have time to get to the capital.
    In general, the article is very provocative. The question immediately arises, why do not the Kazakh divisions, the same Panfilov, be mentioned?
    The authors probably know that no one has secreted or destroyed any documents with the names “Siberian”, and that the names of the units did not initially contain the definition “Siberian”. But they have a task, using the heroic period of the Soviet people, to drive a wedge into the descendants of this people. To sow distrust and doubt in the actions of the Soviet leadership and present the “Muscovites”, residents of the European part of Russia, as ungrateful and not remembering what the Siberians did to defend their homeland. To sow with this the additional seeds of Siberian separatism, which is already being fed by haters of Russia.
    Yes, in our documents only part numbers were mentioned - it’s normal practice to not give the enemy extra information about the composition, combat effectiveness, weapons, command personnel and so on. our parts.
    Yes, in the reports of the Germans, on the contrary, they tried to give the command as much information as possible about the enemy units - including the combat route of the unit, the place of formation and so on. All this is important for the analysis of the operational and strategic situation.
    And as for the fact that the Siberians do not like to run away from danger and thereby contrasting them with “other formations and units” is a clear insult to all the fallen “non-Siberians” by licking conceit to the Siberian character.
    All of Russia understands that on the average Siberian character there are some differences from the average character of the inhabitants of the western part of Russia (I do not touch on the USSR theme), due to the fact that people who had some adventurous character went to the settlement of “new converts”. But would this adventurism help if the same people were part of the western districts at the time of the outbreak of war? Would constitute garrisons of Brest and other border cities and fortifications? When on the regiments and divisions that were not put on alert, all the power of the first strike of the Nazis fell? And all the same, when the Germans reached the Moscow borders without belittling the heroism of the capital’s defenders, we must admit that this was not the Wehrmacht that it was in June.
    Yes, an excellent non-standard solution with a night bayonet attack. But this is the decision of the unit commander, not fighters, they are Siberians or Novgorodians.
    In short, I think such articles are written under the order of opponents of Russia.
  29. colotun
    colotun 3 May 2018 13: 34
    0
    The main merit of Richard Sorge in Japan was that he was able to provoke a war between Japan and the United States and thereby prevent a Japanese attack on our Far East during the difficult period of WWII = 1941-1942. As soon as Stalin learned from Richard Sorge that Japan wanted to fight the United States, not the USSR, he immediately sent Siberian divisions to Moscow, removing them from the Far Eastern border.
  30. Mic1969
    Mic1969 4 May 2018 09: 31
    0
    I don’t understand, did the agitation for the separation of Siberia from Russia begin at VO? What is going on? Moderator, uh ...
  31. loha
    loha 5 May 2018 08: 31
    +1
    As I understood from the hints of the authors, the Siberians are a separate nation, and the command of these divisions studied at special super-Siberian military schools. The article smacks of when people begin to divide into those who live in one place and those who live in another. First, cautious hints under a plausible pretext, and then the glory of the outskirts, and the Mogilev province of the Russian Empire were written down to Belarusians with one decree. And now, many figures rave about the "Siberian Republic"
  32. Cannonball
    Cannonball 9 May 2018 15: 50
    +1
    In 1941, Moscow was defended by 17 Siberian divisions, 2 rifle brigades, separate regiments and battalions of skiers.
    This is called a juggling of facts.
    First, in the Battle of Moscow, 96 divisions, 14 brigades, 2 fortified areas (UR) participated on the side of the Red Army. Of these, only 9 are Siberian. At the same time, 21 militia divisions took part in the defense of Moscow.
    That is, the contribution of Siberian divisions to the defense of Moscow, even against the background of only divisions of the militia, not to mention the contribution of the entire army in this direction.
    Secondly, Siberian divisions played a greater role in the subsequent counterattack, when in October-December of the 41st ten divisions were transferred from Moscow to the Far East along with a thousand tanks and planes. And at the end of November - the beginning of December, three combined-arms armies (1st shock, 20th and 10th), nine rifle and two cavalry divisions, eight rifle, six tank brigades and a large number of special units were transferred to the Western Front . The Kalinin Front and the right wing of the Southwestern Front were also significantly strengthened.
    And thirdly, focusing only on Siberian divisions is clearly biased. For some reason, the author does not take into account the division from other regions of the USSR, for example, the particularly distinguished 316th Panfilov Rifle Division, which was formed in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan. Or, I’m not a stranger, the 360th Infantry Division, formed in the Urals, in the Orenburg region. But neither Kazakhstan, nor Kyrgyzstan, nor the Urals are Siberia, and their contribution to the Victory near Moscow is no less than that of the Siberians.
    Together they, like the Muscovites-militias, as well as the Red Army soldiers and commanders of other Red Army units, defended Moscow and drove the enemy out.
  33. Cannonball
    Cannonball 9 May 2018 16: 19
    +1
    reinforced (22 thousand) SS division "Reich

    Well, 22 thousand - it seems like a bust. Entering the territory of the USSR, this division had a little more than 19 thousand, of which, like in most German divisions, 35-40 percent of the personnel were non-combatant rear units.
    For several months of the hardest battles, the division suffered significant losses - this is a real fact.
    Yes, before the operation "Typhoon" she rested and replenished, but there are great doubts about the physical possibility of making up for 100% of losses, and even more so - about the possibility of increasing personnel.
    Yes, the division could be considered reinforced. But only in comparison with the divisions of the Wehrmacht, and not with other SS divisions. As a rule, SS divisions had three regiments, instead of two.
  34. Dmitry Golovkov
    Dmitry Golovkov 19 August 2020 08: 17
    0
    Authors, you would at least put down the dates when exactly the 78SD arrived at the Istra borders, the most dangerous, as you write, when it entered the battle, when there was an episode at the Dedovskoy factory. Otherwise, it turns out not docking with other battles in the same direction, only more distant lines. Specifically: on 12.10.41, 316 SD under the command of Major General Panfilov arrive at the Volokolamsk frontiers and occupy a 44 km defense zone. On October 16.10, the division enters the battle and for more than a month muses the Nazis on the distant approaches to Moscow, knowing that there is no one behind them (from the word at all). And those on, it turns out that they have 78 SD behind them and are fighting with the SS division. Somehow I did not hear that there were Germans in the rear of the Panfilovites. 16.11. the famous battle took place at the Dubosekovo junction (look at the map, where it is) 20.11. battalion under the command of Art. l-that Momush-Uly left positions near the village of Goryuny (now Anino) and for two days made his way to the main forces, which were no further than the Novopetrovskoe-Voskhod line. Only after these battles the 8th Guards SD was transferred to the Leningrad direction in the Kryukovo area, and the 78 SD was able to engage in battle and accomplish its feat. Between these two events, one more thing happened. The Istra reservoir was drained, scattering and freezing the remnants of the troops advancing on the Panfilovites ... (this is not a mat, this is an ellipsis at the end of the sentence)