Military Review

In the United States predicted the failure of the project Su-57

121
The suspension of India’s joint FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) project with the Russian Federation, involving the creation of the first Indian fighter based on the Su-57, will provoke the cancellation of Moscow’s plans for serial production of this aircraft, writes American expert Joseph Trevithik in his article for The Drive.




For Russians, the loss of India as a partner can turn into even greater problems. Without additional funds from the Indians needed to help the Su-57 program, the Kremlin may have to further reduce its plans for the plane,
quotes an expert Lenta.ru report.

He listed some features of the Su-57, which could not suit the Indians: "the first-generation engine AL-41F-1 and the lack of secrecy." The author also points out that “the FGFA program is too expensive for India,” and instead New Delhi may buy ready-made European or American fighters.

Previously repeatedly appeared news that “the Indian government is increasingly disappointed in the progress regarding the project and its capabilities; The decision may have significant consequences for both countries, ”the expert notes.

He also recalled that in recent years, plans for mass production of Su-57 have been postponed.

At first, Russia hoped to build 2020 Su-150 airplanes, most of which would be the final model, by 57. As a result, Moscow reduced this number to the purchase of a dozen planes of the original model. By the end of 2017, she still hadn't received these planes,
the author writes.

The Kremlin now claims that mass production (Su-57) will begin by the end of 2018, and that it can acquire entire 220 aircraft, which is doubtful given the recent cuts in the country's defense budget and its massive focus on costly advanced strategic weapons,
Trevithic believes.

According to him, having visited Syria for less than two weeks, two Su-57 "could hardly have accomplished any useful missions," and "Russia's progress in terms of Su-57 is very slow."

Therefore, "there is no guarantee that the aircraft will get the desired functions," the expert concludes.

Recall that in April 2018, it was reported that Russia completed the creation of the first generation engine for the Su-57. In the same month, according to Janes, India suspended its participation in the FGFA program.
Photos used:
http://www.globallookpress.com
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  1. Azazelo
    Azazelo April 25 2018 10: 14
    +25
    Well, yes ... finish your worthless guano first. Clowns.
    1. bouncyhunter
      bouncyhunter April 25 2018 10: 19
      +12
      That's it . They can’t deal with their sick Fu-35 suitcase with a constant increase in the defense budget. negative
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 April 25 2018 13: 56
        +6
        Well, if the Su-57 were even half as capable of steaming the F-35 for money, then they would all run contented and happy.

        And yes - if you pretend to be multipolarity in the world, be, if not equal, then close to Jupiter, and not an ordinary bull. To impose your expensive toys on your vassals is simply an urgent need.
        1. bouncyhunter
          bouncyhunter April 25 2018 14: 00
          +6
          It is one thing to bring the car to mind, and it is another to inhale a raw product to a customer, while praising it in every way.
          1. Evgeny Goncharov
            Evgeny Goncharov April 26 2018 01: 47
            0
            Why buyers do not take the raw F-15 \ 16 last blocks with export bells and whistles?
            1. bouncyhunter
              bouncyhunter April 26 2018 08: 25
              +2
              Because the United States is actively discouraging the money spent on the development / development / production of the Fu-35.
              1. Evgeny Goncharov
                Evgeny Goncharov April 27 2018 06: 29
                0
                Can you also show proofs?
                1. YELLOWSTONE
                  YELLOWSTONE April 27 2018 07: 33
                  +1
                  did you see his staircase? lol
    2. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov April 25 2018 10: 20
      +13
      For Russians, the loss of India as a partner can turn into even bigger problems. Without additional funds from the Indians needed to help the Su-57 program,

      It's a shame, but not critical ... If such sticks are inserted into our wheels, then the plane is worth it!
      Break through, there is such a saying among the Russians .. And all that is not being done for the better, gentlemen, schemers!
      1. Oden280
        Oden280 April 25 2018 15: 59
        +2
        Nothing offensive and surprising. The Hindus demanded the transfer of the entire technological chain, including secret technologies, ours did not agree. So the Indians also bucked. In addition, this FGFA, according to the old Soviet tradition, is at least one third inferior to the Su-57 ..
    3. NIKNN
      NIKNN April 25 2018 10: 21
      +8
      Quote: Azazelo
      Well, yes ... finish your worthless guano first. Clowns.
      Who are you pointing to? They know an order of magnitude more than our MO ...
      As a result, Moscow reduced this number to the purchase of a dozen aircraft of the original model.
      laughing They still cannot believe that now they are catching up, with an astonished face, they are creating an AI because theirs is not enough ... laughing
      1. Hire
        Hire April 25 2018 10: 44
        +16
        Amer evaluates from his position, based on his ideas about reality. He does not know how the factories evacuated from Minsk under the bombs began to produce products after a couple of months in the Urals. This is me to the fact that Russian reality can easily cover the American idea of ​​it. smile
        1. NIKNN
          NIKNN April 25 2018 10: 48
          +5
          They themselves are building the 5th generation of 40 years with today's result, well, it was so long ago that this expert does not remember already, probably not yet born ... yes
          1. Hire
            Hire April 25 2018 10: 53
            +6
            Quote: NIKNN
            probably not born yet ...

            laughing But, really, really ...
      2. Greenwood
        Greenwood April 25 2018 10: 44
        +12
        Quote: NIKNN
        They still can not believe what they are now catching up
        Whatever the unfinished F-35, but more than 100 pieces have riveted it (maybe more) plus 187 F-22 in the ranks. And the Su-57 is still being tested in the amount of several pieces. So about catching up, you obviously got excited.
        1. NIKNN
          NIKNN April 25 2018 11: 00
          +7
          Quote: Greenwood
          187 F-22 in service

          Serially issued. In the ranks less, in my opinion there are already 5 losses. Well, not a fact, I didn’t mean aviation to catch up, they have where to catch up with us and they really did not expect this and were very surprised ... hi
      3. Zhelezyakin
        Zhelezyakin April 25 2018 10: 47
        +15
        It seems to me that the logic of eGspert is simple ...
        I compared the budgets of the F-22 F-35 and T-50 projects, it doesn’t agree that its vaunted F-ks have similar characteristics and are many times more expensive. So the Russians are bluffing, so they have nothing ... Well, it can't be - for sure !!!
        That's right.
        1. grandfather_Kostya
          grandfather_Kostya April 25 2018 11: 38
          0
          Well, let them not bathe! We even allow reducing the requirements for their air defense systems, since everything is so good.
        2. alexmach
          alexmach April 25 2018 11: 51
          +2
          Yes, they have normal logic.
          The final cost of the product includes not only the purchase cost but also the cost of NIKOR, and the cost of organizing production - training of personnel. The smaller the series of manufactured products, the greater part of the "organizational costs" falls on each instance. The Americans drank their F-35 money immeasurably, but they obliged all their allies to buy it in order to maximize the series and smudge these expenses on it as much as possible. And the main reason for their swagger with India is the Indian market, which is not very valuable for them, but the breakdown in cooperation with Russia. This can really be a serious blow to the SU-57 program.
          1. Zhelezyakin
            Zhelezyakin April 25 2018 11: 58
            +8
            Of course, I could be mistaken, but the T-50 and FGFA programs are somewhat different and the fifty dollars can be tied to FGFA only through the state budget. Those influence is negligible. Given that part of the funds to the state budget from India has been received ...
            1. alexmach
              alexmach April 25 2018 13: 35
              +1
              Even if it is, the T-50 and the FGFA still intersect in parts, components and technologies, and in scientific research work, I don’t know how much, but most likely strong. For the same engines of the first stage. Radar, the same glider, weapons, information systems. All considerations applicable to the mass production of the final product are applicable to each of its components and spare parts separately. And even with the assembly of these FPGAs in India and the complete transfer of technology, something for Indian aircraft would be produced in Russia, and most likely the key components in the first place.
              1. askme
                askme April 26 2018 02: 01
                +3
                They intersect very weakly, because these are different cars. And the programs do not overlap at all. The tale that Indians indirectly finance the Su-57 program was launched exclusively in the West ten years ago. For all this time they painted our military-industrial complex as absolutely financially insolvent, projecting the 90s in the zero and tenth years.

                But the fact is that Russia only proposed the Su-57s to the Indians to develop together, even from the beginning of the 57s. They then refused. And propagandists from the West draw a picture for the townsfolk as if Indians from the very beginning in the Su-XNUMX program, which is bullshit.

                Therefore, then PAK FA was developed exclusively by the Russian Federation. And only after the first flight in the 2009th, the Indians sharply intensified, wanted to remove our acquired technologies for free. Absolutely brazenly. And our designers, especially for Indians, began to create an absolutely parallel replica of PAK FA on the principle of how much Indians invest - they will get it from technology (in the West they cynically ignore this fact by writing out their stupid opuses).

                And as the Indians' pathological greed intensified, they received practically nothing. And this tyagomotin lasted almost ten years. In the end, the Indians realized that they were initially adequately perceived as inadequate Gypsies, hoping, however, that the Indians would come to their senses in the end. Plus, THEN, the PR effect was important to us, as a joint project with the Indians, our developers increased their international weight (now Russia does not need this, the world now shows who the Pope is and who is the Papuan, in Syria). And when the Indians understood this last several. years, terribly offended. Well, good riddance. That is, this joint project was not originally, alas, connected with the Su-57, because the Indians did not invest anything in it. And ours did not strain for this reason in turn. The Su-57 was advancing powerfully.

                In the West, a tale about the connection between the Indians and the Su-57 was used in propaganda against the military-industrial complex of the Russian Federation, belittling its capabilities, exhibiting our latest projects in an ugly form. The Su-57 project in this case, as if allegedly in the strongest way connected with the Indian. Fools - they believe. And the Westerners did not need more. But here it is not necessary to broadcast it, IMHO)

                In short, this article is complete nonsense. Su-57 as developed, and is nearing completion. With the engine of the first stage. It's time for production cars. And military tests. Achieving combat readiness is just around the corner. New missiles in-in and so on. - made or close to completion. The Su-57 complex will soon enter service with the VKS. So far with the engines of the 1st stage. And after several. years after that, and the engines of the second stage will ripen.

                The Russian military-industrial complex has reached a level where synergy from efforts over the past ten shock years begins to appear. That is, the development time will be reduced, and their complexity will increase. It is because of the effect of synergy, the growth of the military-industrial complex as a system. The Su-57 has a great future. And the propaganda of the enemies here to pull is pure connection of VO to US propaganda. According to Trump’s statements that all 105 missiles “hit” targets in Syria, and the Russian air defense is “not good for anything”. This is propaganda. Prewar type. Those who reprint it uncritically are enemies.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach April 26 2018 07: 53
                  0
                  Why did you write so much text? Could be limited to one first sentence. Think not connected? I doubt it very much, but this is just my opinion against yours. Neither you nor I have reliable information about the projects.

                  I’ll even tell you more. If the Indians simply bought one of the production cars, the Su-35, for example, would already have a positive effect on the SU-57. It would simply additionally load production capacities.

                  And in my opinion to talk about the loss of any cooperation
                  Well, good riddance.

                  stupid thing. The damage from this for the Russian military-industrial complex is obvious to me.
                  1. askme
                    askme April 26 2018 10: 29
                    0
                    But for people like you who did not follow the events, unlike people like me who clearly remember the sequence of work on the Su-57, the text is written. But you, obviously, do not need facts when there is a preset that makes you want to see what you want to see.

                    I repeat once again: work on the Su-57 was started more than 5 years before the Indians really began to work on the creation of their fifth generation fighter. Those. PAK FA has already flown before the Indians began to have at least something to do with the program. Clear? And in the future, these programs did not overlap in practice.
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach April 26 2018 11: 36
                      0
                      But for people like you who did not follow the events, unlike people like me who clearly remember the sequence of work on the Su-57, the text is written.

                      Excuse me, where did you follow him? From the TV and forums?
                      obviously the facts are useless when there is a preset that makes you want to see

                      I re-read your post again, on 2 pages of the text I found already 2 facts.
                      1. what have been offered joint development since the beginning of 2000
                      2. that Indians connected in 2009
                      Everything else is open reasoning. About the leagues of the Western media, synegria, and God is also busy about what. I do not understand how the facts stated (2 pcs) contradict what I wrote above.
                      I repeat once again: work on the Su-57 was started more than 5 years before the Indians really began to work on the creation of their fifth generation fighter. Those. PAK FA has already flown before the Indians began to have at least something to do with the program. Clear?

                      Clearly understood. I have no objections, just how does this refute my reasoning above?
                      And in the future, these programs did not overlap in practice.

                      Yes Yes. Well, let's look for points where they might intersect .. well, purely theoretically.
                      1. Armament - intersects 100%. Perhaps FPGA would not have received everything that adapts to the Su-57, but certainly nothing would have been developed separately for the FPGA.
                      2. Engines - at the moment it intersects 100%, maybe the FPGA will not receive the engine of the second stage ... that's just the SU-57 has not received it yet.
                      3. Glider, materials, etc. - 90% cut off, perhaps a two-seat aircraft will be different from a single, but I think it’s not at all interesting.
                      And what can be different:
                      1. Radar. I’m not entirely aware of what the Indians were offered, but there may be differences ... But in any case, even if the SU-57 is equipped with a more advanced FPGA radar, it will still use one of the serial radars.
                      2. Avionics - here the Indians had their own ideas.
                      1. The comment was deleted.
        3. NEXUS
          NEXUS April 25 2018 12: 22
          +3
          Quote: Zhelezyakin
          I compared the budgets of the F-22 F-35 and T-50 projects, it doesn’t agree that its vaunted F-ks have similar characteristics and are many times more expensive.

          The fact is that in mattress reality, our economy is torn to shreds, which in turn dooms us to the fact that we are unable to build anything more complicated than a stapler for paper.
        4. Hire
          Hire April 25 2018 13: 01
          +5
          Quote: Zhelezyakin
          Well, it can’t be - for sure !!!

          laughing The logic of the cash register: since there is less money at the checkout, it means they bought cheap seeds, and not expensive jamon. But he doesn’t know that he is not in the ABC of Taste, but in the village general store.
    4. To be or not to be
      To be or not to be April 25 2018 10: 52
      +3
      Nothing personal — just business — drown competitors in the world market and praise your own ... expensive and unnecessary ..
      IN only yesterday wrote "Yesterday, 12:09
      The fifth-generation fighter of the US Air Force F-35 made an emergency landing on southwestern Japan on Tuesday
    5. alexmach
      alexmach April 25 2018 11: 35
      +3
      In their guamno they have a pre-order for several thousand copies, they can afford and tinker with it. On the Su-57 is good if there is an order for a hundred.
      1. Hire
        Hire April 25 2018 12: 48
        +5
        Quote: alexmach
        On the Su-57 is good if there is an order for a hundred.

        No problem. The main thing is that this hundred goes to OUR troops. smile And the Indians will buy something else from us.
        1. alexmach
          alexmach April 25 2018 13: 36
          +3
          Well, actually the idea of ​​the article lies in the fact that a hundred of everything is not clear when this is still a disaster. And this statement seems fair to me.
          1. Hire
            Hire April 25 2018 13: 52
            +5
            Quote: alexmach
            a hundred of everything and it is not clear when

            Amer version. Not a convincing version. Their experts were mistaken so many times that the word "expert" in their relation can be written only in brackets. smile
            1. Senior manager
              Senior manager April 26 2018 06: 58
              +1
              Quote: alexmach
              Well, actually the idea of ​​the article lies in the fact that a hundred of everything is not clear when this is still a disaster. And this statement seems fair to me.

              How many businessmen are there. Sale of aircraft is still a passing process, but tasty, but a passing one. The main task is to equip the Russian Aerospace Forces with a modern aircraft. And it is being carried out systematically.
              1. alexmach
                alexmach April 26 2018 07: 55
                0
                How many VO businessmen

                Like people who like to ignore objective reality ... I described above on my fingers why this "associated process" is important for the military-industrial complex as a whole and for a specific program in particular.

                Another example on the topic you want: recent news about the supply of T-90 to the troops. Modernization of the old and also the construction of new ones. What do you think they are connected with? With the growth of the military-industrial complex? With a growing understanding of the importance of tanks? They didn’t buy it for 10 years and suddenly decided to buy it. With deferrals of Almaty? Or with the fact that production lines are being developed under import contracts, and you can produce something for yourself for the company?
  2. Dormidont
    Dormidont April 25 2018 10: 14
    +2
    "Z" - envy
    1. Vard
      Vard April 25 2018 10: 21
      +9
      It has long been noticed ... if we are scolded ... then we are fine ... but if praised ... then as a rule you should drink Borjomi ...
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 April 25 2018 13: 28
        +4
        Quote: Vard
        if we are scolded ... then we are fine ... but if praised ...

        Everything is in order here. yes EMNIP, over the past year only Grudinin was praised from all our mattresses, and that only during the elections. laughing
  3. ultra
    ultra April 25 2018 10: 18
    +1
    The whole article is from the author’s assumptions! Sense of discussing this?
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich April 25 2018 10: 26
      +1
      Quote: ultra
      The whole article is from the author’s assumptions! Sense of discussing this?

      Well, not all "assumptions". The project is really tightened, they fiddled with the engine for a very long time.
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 April 25 2018 10: 30
      +2
      There is no sense, but we will have a plane!
  4. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh April 25 2018 10: 26
    +16
    Americans are right.
    I was amazed in the discussion about the FGFA, how Russians are dismissive and boorish
    speak about the Indians - the main partners and “breadwinners” of the Russian defense industry.
    Bramos, T-90, Su-30. The only country that purchases
    Russia has weapons in large quantities and regularly pays for it.
    I believe that Indians look at similar forums (with automatic
    translation into English is now no problem).
    What conclusions will they draw by reading the comments of the Russians?
    1. dnestr74
      dnestr74 April 25 2018 10: 29
      +32
      What you can’t trust Jews
      1. okko077
        okko077 April 25 2018 11: 49
        +2
        ... And the Malanians all the more ...
      2. Leon68
        Leon68 April 25 2018 14: 48
        0
        + 100500 !!!! good
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 25 2018 10: 31
      +1
      in English in discussions the British often provoke, then they call the Indians to see
      even no translator is needed
      1. jjj
        jjj April 25 2018 10: 42
        0
        And how much of their weapons and equipment did Israel bring to the Indians?
        1. YELLOWSTONE
          YELLOWSTONE April 25 2018 10: 43
          0
          maybe not only the British?
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 25 2018 11: 32
          +5
          We sell more and more. And we respect our customers
          products. Which I advise you.
          1. fighter angel
            fighter angel April 25 2018 13: 43
            +3
            Now you're lying, dear voyaka uh!
            Your IMI concern has been blacklisted in India.
            For corruption and repeated attempts to bribe and lobby.
            India is now permanently closed to yours!
            I do not advise lying and dodging!
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 25 2018 16: 35
              +2
              It was. But quite a while ago.
              And several Western companies were blacklisted.
              IMI has already been deleted from this list, and all purchases continued.
    3. Prisoner
      Prisoner April 25 2018 10: 40
      0
      And if you don’t drop in, then you will enlighten. laughing We understand and have no doubt.
    4. vovanpain
      vovanpain April 25 2018 10: 44
      +9
      Quote: voyaka uh
      What conclusions will they draw by reading the comments of the Russians?

      And here are the comments belay
      Quote: voyaka uh
      I was amazed in the discussion about the FGFA, how Russians are dismissive and boorish
      speak about the Indians - the main partners and “breadwinners” of the Russian defense industry.

      If you like when your partners have a fan of fingers and constant Wishlist, and at least put your pies on your backside.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      main partners and “breadwinners” of the Russian defense industry.

      Oh oh laughing The main breadwinner of the Russian military-industrial complex. Armed Forces of Russia. And yes, the FGFA for India and SU 57 for the Russian Aerospace Forces are different things, you don’t have to put everything in one heap, like a striped expert, you’ll be smarter than them. hi
      1. PalBor
        PalBor April 25 2018 12: 28
        0
        That's it.
    5. PalBor
      PalBor April 25 2018 10: 46
      +4
      What Indians are lazy, wild (in the bulk), greedy and even Indira Gandhi does not save the impression of them?
      Yes, they themselves know about it (he was a translator at the delegation in the 96th), only consider it a virtue.
      1. Zhelezyakin
        Zhelezyakin April 25 2018 12: 34
        +4
        Quote: PalBor
        indians are lazy

        I do not agree. Very hardworking people. Not very educated, yes, but not lazy ... At least those representatives of this people with whom I had to stop ...
        1. PalBor
          PalBor April 25 2018 12: 54
          +1
          As for the arbitrarily hardworking people - I bet. If you were hardworking - you would live better than China, stick a stick there - the mango will grow.
          Yes, there are several thousand Chuvachs out of 1.3 billion under the control of the USA and Israel ...
          Tell me, do they wash themselves, except for sacred baths in the Indus?
    6. Zhelezyakin
      Zhelezyakin April 25 2018 10: 57
      +7
      Curious, are you about members of the forum or about REAL engineering discussions? Indians are happy with Bramos, as well as Su 30. I won’t say anything about tanks ... Nevertheless, I did not begin to judge the attitudes on the forums.
      By the way, I often contact with Indians, at work. I can’t say that there is a certain misunderstanding or mutual hostility ... But they are complex partners, as we are for them ...
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 25 2018 11: 38
        +2
        "Curious, are you about members of the forum or about REAL engineering discussions?" ///

        You see, Google will give you both. And an Indian who wants to, say, start a business with Russia will overlook both those forums and those. And having learned that the Russians consider the Hindus to be “gypsies,” plus a dozen other curses, he will change his mind about contacting such people. Like you, probably in its place.
        1. okko077
          okko077 April 25 2018 11: 56
          +2
          Hey voyaka uh! What do you have about REAL engineering discussions?
          Do you have experience operating military, including aviation, equipment? Or experience organizing work on it? .... Or just a kettle with interest?
        2. Zhelezyakin
          Zhelezyakin April 25 2018 12: 30
          +5
          Following your logic, dear, the Indians did not have to contact us at all.

          Once again I draw your attention to the fact that choosing business partners for yourself, reading non-core forums, is at least not rational ...

          By the way, fly to the Daily, or to Mysore for example. It will be very interesting to read your comments after this ...

    7. Eduard petrov
      Eduard petrov April 25 2018 11: 09
      +2
      I believe that the Indians ...

      Not Indians, but Indians, Indians - in your opinion - Jews (religion). In all other respects I agree.
    8. Tektor
      Tektor April 25 2018 11: 11
      +6
      The Americans, or rather, this particular one, is stupid: he does not understand the difference between the Su-57 and the FGFA. In the latter case, the Indians did not like the design (greater visibility than they would like) and the small proportion of their components in India. For us, FGFA was an export, i.e. a truncated version of the 5th generation fighter with obviously worse parameters than the Su-57. Well, there will be no export version, that's all. We will do the Su-57 only for ourselves.
    9. Squelcher
      Squelcher April 25 2018 13: 10
      +2
      Akak boorish such as you, the "Jews" speak of the USSR and the Russians, Kazakhs and not only who fell on the battlefields saving your nation from burning in stoves .....
    10. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov April 25 2018 16: 30
      0
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Americans are right.
      I was amazed in the discussion about the FGFA, how Russians are dismissive and boorish
      speak about the Indians - the main partners and “breadwinners” of the Russian defense industry.
      Bramos, T-90, Su-30. The only country that purchases
      Russia has weapons in large quantities and regularly pays for it.
      I believe that Indians look at similar forums (with automatic
      translation into English is now no problem).
      What conclusions will they draw by reading the comments of the Russians?

      Okay, do not be stiff .. Your Work? So you tell them you want to sell your own US games .. These ALL will buy! The main thing is to push and be able to promise ..
      Moldavians Israel, have time everywhere .. negative
  5. inkass_98
    inkass_98 April 25 2018 10: 26
    +2
    Without the opinion of the most likely opponent, we’ll figure it out somehow.
  6. evil partisan
    evil partisan April 25 2018 10: 26
    +2
    Amer just hahly, who have been waiting for the collapse of Russia for 4 years, bit. Or breathed on them. yes
  7. flicker
    flicker April 25 2018 10: 28
    +5
    Indians could not suit: "the engine of the first generation AL-41F-1 and lack of secrecy."
    Well, I think the Indians will not mind if we sell these planes ... to Pakistan lol since the "first-generation engine and lack of secrecy."
    1. jjj
      jjj April 25 2018 10: 45
      0
      Well, that's what the defense ministers of India and Pakistan are sitting next to in China. And they are discussing together with Chinese and Russian colleagues the problems of security in the region and the world as a whole. And condemn Washington’s predatory policies
      1. flicker
        flicker April 25 2018 15: 37
        0
        now sitting in China next to the defense ministers of India and Pakistan. And discuss together
        ... and from whom or for whom do they need European and American fighters?
  8. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 April 25 2018 10: 31
    +3
    instead, New Delhi may buy pre-made European or american fighters.
    You can not comment, because the goal is clear. Therefore, the Americans and revolve around the Indians in a dance in the manner of "Bollywood" promising the golden mountains and the "best in the world" weapons.
  9. rrrd
    rrrd April 25 2018 10: 31
    +1
    Everything is very simple! Hindus are still gypsies! they don’t want to be given critical technologies. They are in a pose and get up! wink As they say they want to sit on a branch and eat a fish!
    1. ZVO
      ZVO April 25 2018 10: 43
      0
      Quote: rrrd
      Everything is very simple! Hindus are still gypsies! they don’t want to be given critical technologies. They are in a pose and get up! wink As they say they want to sit on a branch and eat a fish!


      They invested almost $ 4 billion in this program.
      They concluded contracts with us - on certain conditions, as the Indians say, on the terms of technology transfer.

      They have the right to demand.
      They bought their part of the project - ours sold.

      Who feeds the girl and dances - that then she uses it.
      1. Horon
        Horon April 25 2018 11: 36
        +5
        Where already 4 billion ???
        In the first phase programs worth $ 295 million the design of the Indian fighter was developed, but the FGFA project does not advance further due to the many disagreements that arose between the parties. Russia. India ...
        1. rrrd
          rrrd April 25 2018 11: 40
          0
          And I'm talking about the same !!! Most likely they want even what is not in the contract!
          1. ZVO
            ZVO April 25 2018 12: 48
            0
            Quote: rrrd
            And I'm talking about the same !!! Most likely they want even what is not in the contract!


            Have you read the contract of 2007?
            India and Russia signed an agreement on the joint development and production of a fifth-generation fighter in 2007.
            Joint.
            Remember this - SU-57 (PAK-FA) is a joint development of Russia and India.

            Hindus have invested $ 4 billion since the beginning.
            The total value of the contract on that money on an equal footing was first $ 7 billion, by 1016 it was $ 11 billion.
            In 2017, there was a message that ours demanded an additional $ 7 billion for allegedly transferring highly classified technologies.

            How so?
            If in 2007 you agreed to do everything together, share everything equally, and expenses and incomes and smart people, etc. What is it called?
            Without Indian money, we would hardly have "what is now" by now ...
            And the contract for these 295 million is not the main contract. This is just a contract for a project to finalize the main project to Indian requirements - a double and increased engine power.

            Hindus were supposed to get their first flying copy in 2014 - they got nothing. For now, they should have already had several planes — to retrain pilots — but also nothing.
            1. rrrd
              rrrd April 25 2018 13: 07
              +5
              Excuse me, but no one personally acquainted me with the contract! There are just some corrections. Bramos is also a joint development.) There is an analog of onyx that surpasses Bramos. Onyx Russian development. There is such a thing as export. Critical I repeat again critical technology no country in the world will sell! But the Indians already want to make amendments to the agreement!
            2. NN52
              NN52 April 25 2018 13: 32
              +4
              ZVO
              You either did not understand yourself, or deliberately mislead members of the forum with this epic with India ...
              In 2007, an "intergovernmental agreement on the joint production of T 50" was concluded. Then in 2010 they paid 295 cartoons of greens for preliminary development .. They wanted 166 single and 48 double sides for themselves ..
              But in 2012, they reduced their need to 127 single boards (the total cost of this project by 127 boards, which included all costs, was 25 billion greenery for them) ..
              The final joint production contract was NOT signed! (And here both sides were supposed to take 5,5 yards of greenery !!!!)
              INDIA did NOT pay us ANYTHING (except 295 million).
              Therefore, the question went into the plane of buying ready-made Su 57s with them .... Therefore, now all the "well-wishers" suddenly abruptly pour mud on the Su 57 ...
        2. ZVO
          ZVO April 25 2018 12: 49
          0
          Quote: Horon
          Where already 4 billion ???
          In the first phase programs worth $ 295 million the design of the Indian fighter was developed, but the FGFA project does not advance further due to the many disagreements that arose between the parties. Russia. India ...


          Look at 12 years ago ...
          The contract for the joint creation of a 5th generation fighter between India and Russia on an equal footing.
          1. Horon
            Horon April 25 2018 14: 15
            +2
            You have already been explained above that 4 billion is the cost of the entire contract, but you continue to claim that the entire amount has already been paid. In fact, only a part of 295 million was contributed. Now the Indians want to have ALL the developments related to the already created SU57, including secret ones. Ours offer them to take part in critical developments themselves, and not get our own free rein. Or ready-made aircraft, or we will help you to develop a similar aircraft tailored for your technology. It is because of the incomplete payment of the contract that the Indians are trying to bargain! No matter what, let the good American F-16s begin to produce, they are much better than the bad Russian planes!
            1. ZVO
              ZVO April 25 2018 14: 58
              0
              Quote: Horon
              In fact, only a part of 295 million was contributed. Now the Indians want to have ALL the developments related to the already created SU57, including secret ones. Ours offer them to take part in critical developments themselves, and not get our own free rein.


              Search further.
              4 billion Indians paid ...
              Then their 50% share increased to 6,5 billion
              And a year ago, ours demanded another 7 billion dollars from them and for this money we were ready to give all the secret achievements. Although, according to the first contract, on an equal footing, all the results are joint. those. belong to both.

              Those. make Indians pay both their and our half.
              1. Horon
                Horon April 25 2018 16: 32
                +3
                Come on! They already paid us $ 1 trillion. You even in the forehead, that spelled - no difference! Then why does the amount of 295 million appear as already paid? Well, probably, to that trillion who somewhere, someone, once paid or will pay! It must have been a tip to the previous ones!
                1. NN52
                  NN52 April 25 2018 22: 42
                  +1
                  Horon

                  Yes about the forehead ... it is useless to speak ...
                  ZVO apparently gave the money to the Indians ...
                  So do not pay attention, it happens in humans ...

                  And he is really stubborn ... just not the case ..
  10. rrrd
    rrrd April 25 2018 10: 34
    +1
    Let the fighting on the elephant warriors spin!
  11. rpuropuu
    rpuropuu April 25 2018 10: 36
    0
    The author also points out that “the FGFA program is too costly for India,” and instead New Delhi can buy ready-made European or American fighters.
    This is "5" good It’s good that American fighters are less expensive laughing
  12. helmi8
    helmi8 April 25 2018 10: 36
    +1
    Suspension by India of a joint project with the Russian Federation FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft), involving the creation of the first Indian fighter based on the Su-57

    The key phrase is Indian-based ... Here are the Indians and are bargaining for the transfer of production technologies. What is incomprehensible here? And to give the Indians the technology - to give them to the whole world. Do we need it? So let some rejoice and "analyze" how bad things are with us, and when the kirdyk comes. But just as they say in Odessa - you won’t wait!
    1. cariperpaint
      cariperpaint April 25 2018 12: 26
      0
      everything is more banal here. I personally think that the Indians stupidly left this project for banal calculation. Why invest in the program when Russia does everything for its money and then we will buy the finished one and that’s it. all the same, technology doesn’t give well and it makes sense to invest in development
  13. JonnyT
    JonnyT April 25 2018 10: 38
    0
    The cult American saga - everything is bad in Russia, in the continuation of the masterpiece "Russian air defense is not capable of anything"
  14. turbris
    turbris April 25 2018 10: 38
    +2
    We don’t have to breed us to accelerate the pace of development and adoption of the Su-57 and India has nothing to do with it, everything will happen according to the previously approved plan. Moreover, there is still no real data on any epoch-making advantages of 5th generation aircraft over modern air defense systems, or maybe they will not have any significant advantages in real combat operations. It should not be ruled out that generation 4 +++ aircraft in real combat operations will be more effective than generation 5 aircraft in terms of the number of sorties, real combat load and other parameters.
  15. megadeth
    megadeth April 25 2018 10: 41
    +1
    Instead of 51, one will purchase 28, at best ..... For an air strike ...
  16. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD April 25 2018 10: 44
    +2
    In short, a solid highlie ... The author is in trend .. winked
  17. sgr291158
    sgr291158 April 25 2018 10: 56
    0
    Sailor would have considered their failures. Take their planes, only the personnel to ruin.
  18. HMR333
    HMR333 April 25 2018 10: 56
    0
    the main thing contradicts itself in the article! claims that the abolition of the Indian version of the aircraft on the basis of su57 because for them it seemed noticeable to him the Indian version that outwardly designed no more! and this coffer immediately claims that this su 57 is too noticeable and the circus will not do it because it’s ready and is finished and the engines will be replaced, after which it will go into production and the Indians themselves will indicate that they will buy serial ones later! so complete nonsense should be spit on such experts with contradictions!
  19. Oleg Kozlov
    Oleg Kozlov April 25 2018 10: 58
    +3
    Time will tell who is right ... But the state of the aviation industry in Russia is only alarming. The state of industry in general and the economy in particular is alarming. The actions of the government are alarming ... And so, if you look at the zombie man, then everything is just wonderful ...
    1. turbris
      turbris April 25 2018 11: 16
      +1
      Well, where did you see in the zombie creator, how do you put it, that everything is just wonderful? They do not say anything at all about what is happening in Russia, except for accidents and catastrophes, and if the leadership goes somewhere, there is no information about life in regions, cities and other settlements. This is really alarming and distrusting the leadership of our media.
    2. rocket757
      rocket757 April 25 2018 11: 26
      +2
      Even if you look at the zombie, nothing looks so wonderful ... filters on the ears, remove the pink glasses in advance!
      All the prowess, at the same bullshit, we will start from the fact that not everything is in order in our house and this must be eliminated here and yesterday!
  20. Ruzhik420
    Ruzhik420 April 25 2018 11: 19
    +1
    There is one of two things. Either the author is dur @ k, or the manipulator. Even the last "sofa expert" knows that there is a difference between the development of the domestic model and the FGFA program with India.
  21. konstantin68
    konstantin68 April 25 2018 11: 21
    0
    So we are on the right track!
    ... "beware when the enemy praises you" ...
    Sun Tzu.
  22. Engineer
    Engineer April 25 2018 11: 21
    0
    Yes, everything will be fine! Now they will reassign the iPhone again as Prime Minister with his liberal gang and they will continue to bend the Kudrino line in the economy further. Again they will cut the budget for the defense industry, but from the tank, the GDP in the army is not growing, it turns out. We will have GLONASS satellites at 70% of the western elemental base, and maybe even more, there is no limit to perfection. There will be engines of the 57nd and 2rd stages on the Su-3. There will be a Mig-35 with AFAR someday, and maybe even a project of replacing the Mig29 with a 5th generation aircraft, after the Mig41 projection, of course. And on Mars on Soyuz-6, or maybe 7, Vesta will immediately fly. Or maybe even the Cortege after the inauguration of Putin in 2024. In general, the money cycle in the offices of Russian officials is eternal. The main thing is everything is stable, like the ruble exchange rate.
  23. Boris63
    Boris63 April 25 2018 11: 22
    0
    Hindus are likely to be "sent", and Americans ... they have not yet recovered from the unexpectedness of how Russia has restored its forces in 14 years and continues to improve them ... Yes, a cover operation was carried out at some point, but their brain still cannot understand. Everything is equal in itself ... they knocked out the budget, drank half (both the lobby, and at overstated rates, and just in your pocket). Based on this, it turns out that in our military-industrial complex they are stealing at least from Amers and they will bring and dry the Dryer, and something else .... they will rivet.
  24. cariperpaint
    cariperpaint April 25 2018 12: 23
    0
    Lord ... how the earth wears such iksperds ... India has invested a penny ... everything is done at our expense ...
  25. gippernano
    gippernano April 25 2018 12: 23
    0
    Quote: Hire
    Amer evaluates from his position, based on his ideas about reality

    So I look, it seems that it positions itself as an expert, but you read it and think: “Does he live on the moon?”
    And the exit from the Indians program can be called good news. They had a fifth leg in her like a dog, they were needed, and that they jumped off, it will only be easier for the mare.
  26. Berkut24
    Berkut24 April 25 2018 12: 31
    +1
    Project Su-57 is already difficult to fail. The plane practically took place. Russia got the technology. As they go to the troops, there are buyers. And common projects with the Indians - this is still a breakdown of the brain ...
  27. lis-ik
    lis-ik April 25 2018 12: 48
    0
    In general, everything is correctly written.
  28. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 25 2018 12: 57
    +3
    Well and what for these obyyanok. Then they want to enter the project, raise the entry price two times.
    In general, of course, predictions come true about pulling the countries to warring camps in a future war.
    And while it turns out that with us only China and Iran.
    Everyone else, including friends in defensive alliances, is against us. Well or not for us, which is basically the same thing.
    1. Beltasir matyagu
      Beltasir matyagu April 25 2018 13: 05
      +2
      Only army and navy
      1. rocket757
        rocket757 April 25 2018 13: 10
        +3
        No matter how absurd this sounds, they will be for us only when there is no one left against us!
        Of course they are cowardly mongrels, but when was it different?
  29. Beltasir matyagu
    Beltasir matyagu April 25 2018 13: 04
    +1
    Is progress slow? The United States has been developing the 5th generation for 35 years. And still raw. Trillion spent
    1. rocket757
      rocket757 April 25 2018 13: 11
      +2
      Striped AI took over to develop! I wonder how much it will drag on?
  30. 1536
    1536 April 25 2018 13: 08
    0
    Since when did the Indians become trendsetters in the aircraft industry of combat aircraft? Is it that since the "flight" of yogis in a dream or in reality ..? The United States took a deliberately wrong criterion for assessing the situation and sent a bunch of spam to the mountain so that Russia would be nervous, and some would say sacramental: “Why do we even need our own aircraft?” Well, if it is a graduate of the correctional class of a comprehensive school with inclusive education (no offense to him (!)) Who will bake wonderful buns in his own bakery, and if it is a graduate of the Moscow Aviation Institute or Baumansky working in the Sukhoi or MiG Design Bureau? Then someone in the US will check: "The task is complete!" And we continue to prepare a "mirror response"?
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 April 25 2018 13: 54
      0
      Hindus are a top customer - they are buying up a lot of different weapons and for the Indian market there is a real war between leading corporations and even countries. Plus, it’s a marker - if you refuse an airplane, then it can be used in bargaining or lobbying of another airplane, in third countries.

      For example, when Algeria rejected the upgraded MiGi29, several strong interests from third countries simply fell behind.
      1. 1536
        1536 April 25 2018 13: 55
        0
        And who paid whom for the “markers" how much?
  31. Romanenko
    Romanenko April 25 2018 13: 56
    0
    Quote: “Recall that in April 2018 it was reported that Russia completed the creation of the first generation engine for the Su-57. In the same month, according to Janes, India suspended its participation in the FGFA program.”
    Well, quite by accident I stopped, and no one from a friendly country called them, and did not advise at the visit, it just happened ...
    Papuans guys, Russia will make a plane without you, only you will stay with it?
  32. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General April 25 2018 14: 41
    +1
    Looks like they didn’t agree on some key technologies. FGFA and Su-57 planes are different, but Russia is not at hand to sell its most advanced technologies. And the Indians need everything at once.
    Well, nothing, and without them everything will work out for us, so that they don’t say in America.
  33. Hiller
    Hiller April 25 2018 18: 04
    0
    Wet dreams of some crivetics from mattress ..... storytellers
  34. kotmatroskin
    kotmatroskin April 25 2018 18: 08
    0
    The story of the Su-57 begins to turn into an endless series. I am afraid that when this machine is "brought to mind", then it will already be morally and technically obsolete. Maybe you should try out various innovations on it, so that having skipped the 5th generation, take on the sixth? Americans do not rest on their laurels and also work hard on the next generation of aircraft. By the way, why is the plant located in the Far East? To get away from Moscow? And the risks are great in case the situation worsens ... What is there to defend it?
  35. nikoliski
    nikoliski April 26 2018 02: 07
    0
    Well, we also have patriots who wrote a lot of nasty things about their F-35, which, despite a flurry of criticism, became the best-selling aircraft in the world (orders already years ahead), the Britons generally bought the most expensive option with GDP, which can hang (Doppler radars Mig -29 and Su-27 just don’t see the target whose speed is zero) all this, coupled with a low ESR, makes the amer unobtrusive enough (it may not use its excellent AFAR radar, it’s easy to get information from infrared sensors around it), and it’s hardly noticeable, which means it’s difficult destroy (how to destroy something that you don’t see, just hit the clouds with nuclear missiles?) So while the Su-57 is not put into series, consider the lag terrifying (we can protect ourselves from “invisibility” with the S-400), but in terms of the attacks, we now really lagged behind, what we have now for a massive attack plane? Tu22m3 with EPR like a football field (that means they will see and bring it down for 500km, NATO is far from being barmels running in the desert, they have everything) Or maybe the Su-24m has been flying since the 70s? so they soon themselves fall from old age, but the "war veteran" -invisibility we need to desperately ...
    1. Senior manager
      Senior manager April 26 2018 07: 32
      0
      The best-selling aircraft, about the reason for twisting hands to customers, is quite a successful business, with a gun and a lovely smile.
      1. nikoliski
        nikoliski April 26 2018 07: 46
        0
        Gone are the days of the Warsaw Pact, when we also sucked in our allies (it’s our fault that we have lost our last friends now, and India and China are buying the last samples, then they will overtake us and become exporters themselves)
    2. turbris
      turbris April 26 2018 11: 23
      0
      Well, if you don’t think, why write such comments? What an achievement, the plane crashes and Doppler radars do not see it, what nonsense, these radars are used to aim missiles, and pulsed radars are used to detect a target, our Su-35 can hang in the air, during an air battle, and not in front of the deck when landing. I read advertisements about the F-35 and gasped with delight, the lag terrifies him, first deal with your lag in the brain. And with invisibility, it’s also time to recall the laws of physics, it doesn’t exist, there is little noticeability in a specific range of radio waves and nothing more, it only affects the reduction of the target’s range, but at the same time it significantly affects the aerodynamic characteristics of the aircraft, its combat load and preparation time for the second departure. Calm down and come to your senses, everything is fine with our imaginary backlog.
      1. nikoliski
        nikoliski April 26 2018 12: 11
        0
        Well, how do you aim a missile at a target that it cannot capture? (Our cobra’s maneuver was also invented to discard the missile’s homing missile)
  36. alexmach
    alexmach April 26 2018 14: 29
    0
    askme,
    Yes, you are an ordinary VO trollin, obviously, according to your "theories" and boltology-demagogy.

    I do not see the point of continuing this conversation. You are an empty and limited person. Apparently, with the absence of elementary knowledge in itself, there is no basis for economic theory.