Military Review

The mystery of the German losses in World War II. Part II. About Krivosheev

37
Summary of the last part: approximately 19 million people were mobilized to the German armed forces (WASH) during World War II. But how many WASH lost in the war? It is impossible to count this directly, there are no documents in which all the losses would have been taken into account, and it only remained to lay them down to get the necessary figure. The mass of German soldiers was out of action without any reflection in any statements.


The mystery of the German losses in World War II. Part II. About Krivosheev


Militaryhistorical the team led by Krivosheev stated: “the determination of ... the losses of the armed forces of Germany ... is a very difficult problem ... this is due to the lack of a complete set of reporting and statistical materials ...” (quote from the book “Russia and the USSR in the wars of the XX century”). To solve the problem of determining German losses, according to Krivosheev, it is possible by the balance method. We need to see: how much is mobilized in the WASH and how much is left at the time of surrender, the difference will be a decrease - it remains to distribute it for reasons. The result was (in thousand people):

Held in WASH on 1 March 1939 g. - 3214
Mobilized from 1.6.1939 to 30.4.1945 - 17893

Total for the war years attracted to the armed forces
Germany in view of serving 1 before 1939 March - 21107

To the beginning of the surrender of the German troops:
- remained in service - 4100
- was in hospitals - 700

During the war, departed (total) - 16307
of which:
a) Irretrievable loss (total) - 11844
Including:
- died, died from wounds and illness, was missing - 4457
- captured - 7387

b) Other loss (total) - 4463
of which:
- dismissed for injury and illness for a long time
as unfit for military service (disabled), deserted - 2463
- demobilized and sent to work
in industry - 2000

Balance according to Krivosheev: mobilized in the VSG - 21,1 million, of which 4,1 million (+ 0,7 million injured in hospitals) remained to surrender. Consequently, 16,3 million were eliminated during the war - of which 7,4 million were captured, 4,4 million were crippled or sent to industry; there is 4,5 million - this is the dead.

Figures Krivosheev have long been the object of criticism. The total number of mobilized (21 million) is overestimated. But the following figures are clearly questionable. Unclear column "demobilized for work in industry" - 2 000 000 people. Krivosheev himself does not provide any references or explanations for the origin of such a figure. So he just took it from Muller-Hillebrand. But how did you get this figure M-H? M-D does not give references; his book is fundamental, it doesn’t refer to anything, it refers to it. There is an opinion that these were soldiers, who were seriously wounded, because of which they could no longer do military service, but were still able to work. No, this contingent must be included in the column demobilized for disability (2,5 million people).

Unclear with the number of prisoners. 7,8 million counted as surrendered during hostilities. The number is incredible, the ratio of those who surrendered and died in the German army simply was not like this. After the surrender, 4,1 million more surrendered; 700 thousand were in hospitals - they should also be attributed to the captive. 7,8 million prisoners before surrender and 4,8 million after, total: German soldiers captured - 12,2 million

Krivosheev gives statistics: our troops reported on the capture of 4377,3 thousand prisoners. Of these, 752,5 thousand soldiers of the allied German countries. 600 more thousand people. were released directly on the fronts - it turned out that they were not German military personnel. It remains approximately 3 million.

The number of captured is really huge. But the problem is that it was not only German soldiers. There are mentions that firefighters and railway workers were in captivity (they are in uniform, men of military age); police officers were taken prisoner by all means; the same applies to members of militarized organizations, as well as the folkstorm, the German construction battalion, hiwi, the administration, etc.



From vivid examples: the troops reported that 134 000 prisoners were taken in Berlin. But there are publications whose authors insist that the German military in Berlin was no more than 50 000. The same with Konigsberg: 94 000 was taken prisoner, and the garrison was 48 000 according to German data, including folkshturm. In general, there were many prisoners, but how many of them were actually military? - It is unknown. What is the percentage of real military among the total number of prisoners - one can only guess.

The Western Allies surrendered 2,8 million people between the landing in Normandy and the end of April 1945, 1,5 million of them in April - the German front in the west collapsed at that time. The total number of prisoners of war counted by the Western allies, by 30 on April 1945 amounted to 3,15 million, and increased to 7,6 million after the surrender of Germany.

But the allies also counted as prisoners of war not only military personnel, but also personnel of numerous militias, functionaries of the Nazi Party, security and police, and even firefighters. 7,6 million were counted as prisoners, but there were significantly fewer real prisoners of war.

Canadian D. Buck drew attention to the huge discrepancy between how many allies captured and how much they then released. The number released is much less than the amount taken. From this D. Buck concluded that up to a million German prisoners died in the Allied camps. Critics of Buck were quick to assure that the prisoners were not punished, and discrepancies in numbers arose because of the disorderly, relaxed account.

Until April, 1945 in Soviet and Western captivity was taken by approximately 1,5 million people (if you count it with all the stretch). The total number of prisoners in Krivosheev is 12 million. It turns out that by April 1945 Germany had an 9-million army - despite all the defeats suffered. And, despite such an army, she suffered a final defeat in a month. Rather, it should be assumed that something is wrong with the calculation of prisoners. Perhaps there was a double counting of the same prisoners. 4,8 million prisoners taken after surrender were mixed with 7,4 million prisoners taken before surrender. So, the figure in 7,4 million taken prisoner before surrender can not be taken.

It is also not clear where the figure in 4,1 came from. The million soldiers who remained in the Supreme Military Council at the beginning of the surrender.



The map shows the territory remaining in the Reich by May 1945. By May 9 this territory has decreased even more. Could there be more 4 million soldiers on it? How was such a number established? Perhaps on the basis of the counting of those who surrendered after capitulation. We return to the question: who was in captivity, considered to be German soldiers?

Germany's total capitulation on 9 on May was preceded by a series of capitulations in the west: April 29 1945 was capitulated by German troops in Italy; 4 May signed the capitulation of the German armed forces in Holland, Denmark, and North-West Germany; 5 May capitulated to German troops in Bavaria and Western Austria.

By May 9, the operating German troops remained only before the Soviet army (in Czechoslovakia, Austria, and Kurland) and before the Yugoslav one. On the western fronts the Germans had already surrendered; there remained only the army in Norway (9 divisions with reinforcement units - no more than 300 000 military personnel) and small garrisons of several coastal fortresses. Soviet troops reported on 1,4 million taken prisoner after surrender; Yugoslavs reported on 200 000 prisoners. Together with the army in Norway it turns out no more than 2 million people (again, it is not known how many of them are actually military personnel). Perhaps the phrase “to the beginning of the surrender” means not by 9 of May, but by the end of April, when the surrender began on the western fronts. That is, 4,1 million in the ranks and 0,7 million in hospitals is the situation at the end of April. Krivosheev does not specify this.

4,5 million of the dead German soldiers - this figure in the end result received Krivosheev. A modern (comparatively) German researcher R. Overmans counted 5,1 million military dead (5,3 * together with dead civil servants (+ 1,2 million civilian dead)). This is more than the number Krivosheev. The Overmans figure - 5,3 million of the dead soldiers - is not officially accepted in Germany, but it is she who is indicated in the German wiki. That is, the society accepted it

In general, Krivosheev’s figures are clearly doubtful; he does not solve the problem of determining German losses. The balance method does not work here either, since there is no necessary reliable data for this. So the question remains: where did the 19 million fighters of the German army go?

There are researchers offering a method of demographic calculation: to determine the total losses of the population of Germany to them, and on their basis approximately estimate the military. There were such calculations on topwar (“Loss of the USSR and Germany in the Great Patriotic War”): population of Germany on 1939 - 70,2 million (without Austrians (6,76 million) and Sudeteners (3,64 million)). The occupation authorities in 1946 conducted a census of the population of Germany - counted 65 931 000 people. 70,2 - 65,9 = 4,3 million. To this figure it is necessary to add the natural population growth in 1939-46. - 3,5 – 3,8 million. Then it is necessary to subtract the figure of natural death rate for 1939-46 - 2,8 million people. And then add at least 6,5 million, and presumably even 8 million. These are Germans expelled from Sudetenland, Poznan and Upper Silesia (6,5 million) and about 1 — 1,5 million Germans fled from Alsace and Lorraine. The arithmetic average of 6,5 — 8 million - 7,25 million

So, it turns out:

Population in 1939 70,2 million people.
Population in 1946 65,93 million people.
Natural mortality 2,8 million.
The natural increase in 3,5 million.
Emigration inflow 7,25 million.
Total losses (70,2 - 65,93 - 2,8) + 3,5 + 7,25 = 12,22 million people.

However, the 1946 census is much obscure. It was carried out without the Saar (800 000 people of the pre-war population). Did the prisoners count in the camps? The author does not clarify this point; In the English wiki there is an indication that no has been taken into account The emigration inflow is clearly overstated; 1,5 million Germans did not flee from Alsace. In Alsace, however, it is not the Germans who live, but the Alsatians, loyal French citizens, they did not need to escape. 6,5 million Germans could not expel from the Sudetenland, Poznan and Upper Silesia - there were not so many Germans there. And part of the exiled settled in Austria, and not in Germany. But besides the Germans, others fled to Germany - many assorted accomplices, how many were there? Unknown even approximately. How were they counted in the census?

As Krivosheev wrote: “The determination with certainty of the scale of casualties of the German armed forces ... on the Soviet-German front during the Second World War is a very complex problem.” Krivosheev, apparently, believed that this problem is complex, but solvable. However, his attempt came out completely unconvincing. In fact, this task is simply unsolvable.

* Distribution of losses across fronts: 104 000 killed in the Balkans, 151 000 in Italy, 340 000 in the West, 2 743 000 in the East in the East, 291 000 in other theaters, and 1 230 in the final war period 000 495 East to a million), died in captivity (according to official data of the USSR and Western allies) 000 1,1. According to the Germans, XNUMX million died, mostly in the Soviet Union. According to the Soviet accounting in captivity, more than half less died. So, those who died, ascribed to Soviet captivity in Germany, actually died in battle (at least for the most part). After death, they were mobilized again - on the propaganda front.
Author:
Photos used:
From Wikipedia, QIP.ru
Articles from this series:
The mystery of the German losses in World War II. Part I. About Muller-Hillebrand
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  1. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 23 2018 06: 28
    +3
    However, his attempt came out completely unconvincing.

    I agree with the author, there are too many assumptions: 2 million German soldiers sent from the army to industry despite the fact that the well-known stiffening pumping of workers into the army during the war looks very contradictory.
    However, even in WWI its figures are unreliable.
    1. Bar1
      Bar1 April 23 2018 07: 10
      +1
      it turns out that the data of the USSR, that the Germans were killed -13mil.-all wrong?
      1. YELLOWSTONE
        YELLOWSTONE April 23 2018 07: 55
        +2
        Wikipedia does not say
        1. renics
          renics 27 June 2018 23: 00
          0
          And whoever writes there or should write, the same theorists like you.
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 23 2018 07: 58
      0
      Quote: Olgovich
      I agree with the author, too many assumptions:

      yes for example
      It is not officially accepted in Germany, but it is indicated on the German wiki. That is, society accepted it

      so it’s also a late researcher who has investigated
      1. Vladimir 5
        Vladimir 5 17 July 2018 15: 52
        -1
        The results of the Great Patriotic War of the war need to be analyzed, including the losses of all parties, for this the state institutions of the USSR worked, and not individual authors who could not afford such tasks. We did not publish this kind of statistical state collective work for political reasons (for political reasons, most of the statistics in the USSR were hidden, and a KGB officer who protected the data worked for each statistical organization), because the comparison of losses would look very unsightly: for example, the Germans lost up to the Eastern Front 3 million, including the last year of the 1945 war, as the Red Army lost more than 13 million soldiers, even two prisoners of war than all the German casualties. - The difference says a lot ...
  2. antivirus
    antivirus April 23 2018 07: 30
    +10
    THE ENTIRE LOSS CALCULATION SYSTEM IS NON-BAD.
    I wrote - "where to put the Baltic states, Vlasovites, Bandera and other allies of Germany?"

    losses should be considered like that - how many people - against how many fought and lost.

    and demography after WWII is to calculate the growth of mythical GDP.
    and now we measure the growth of wealth in GDP.

    the farther east - the simpler - another attitude to LIFE-DEATH.
    point.
    For centuries, hundreds of thousands were stolen from Russia and Russia and !!!!!!!!! nobody !!!!!!!!!!! I didn’t know where, how much, when they died, how much they lived, under what conditions — so did other eastern civilizations.
    Europe, by size, is well small for self-insulated development.

    POWER BROKEN POWER. FEAT OF THE USSR GREAT. and to add, to our achievements, the victories of Romania and France in the war with Germany - sadly, not funny
    1. renics
      renics 27 June 2018 23: 02
      0
      It refers to statistics on German losses, not their henchmen.
      1. antivirus
        antivirus 28 June 2018 08: 22
        0
        here and always-everywhere-- ABOUT THE PRICE OF VICTORY.
        it includes the ratio of losses - the "efficiency" of the state machine, including incapacity, mental and racial !!! COMPLETENESS !!! OUR GRANDFATES (and now - Russians cannot collect cars, all drunks, etc.) in contrast to the "true Aryans"
        1. renics
          renics 29 June 2018 22: 08
          0
          Verbal rubbish from exclamation marks, including those with a meaningless verbal set of some absurd cliches. Your comment reminds me of a clown clip with Ukupnik. Standartenfuhrer Stirlitz a true Aryan.
          1. antivirus
            antivirus 30 June 2018 20: 16
            0
            You, as a true democrat, I’m not looking for a point in a million deaths, including missing persons.
  3. Loess
    Loess April 23 2018 10: 05
    +10
    With such calculations of years through 50 it turns out that the Germans had no losses at all ...
  4. Operator
    Operator April 23 2018 11: 22
    +14
    The author is confused in three pines, all that is required is to calculate:
    - what was the size of the armed forces of the Third Reich at 1 of September 1939 of the year;
    - how many Germans were mobilized in the Third Reich, including Austria, to all paramilitary forces, including voluntary air defense, party militia, police and firefighters from 1 of September 1939 of the year to April of 1945 of the year;
    - how many Poles and Czechs mobilized by subjects of the Third Reich were mobilized on the territory of the respective governor generals;
    - how many Germans were released from Soviet, American, British and French captivity in 1945-1955 years.

    The difference between the number of aircraft at 1 September 1939 + the number of mobilized and the number released from captivity will leave the total losses of the Third Reich in WWII. It remains only to calculate the number of wounded Germans, Austrians, Czechs and Poles, who due to health reasons could not take part in the hostilities after the wound and the desired result (the number of citizens of the Third Reich killed) will be obtained.

    At the same time, to correctly compare with the general figures of the losses of the USSR in WWII, the losses of the Third Reich must include the losses of the civilian population of Germany, Austria, the Czech Republic and Poland from the bombing of cities and on evacuation routes.

    And one should not forget that the coalition from the Third Reich, Italy, Romania, Finland, France (Vichy regime), Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia and Bulgaria fought against the USSR. In the fighting against the USSR, military contingents from Spain and Norway participated. The SS troops were served by the Baltic states, Ukrainians, French and Belgians. On the side of the Third Reich, Russians, Crimean Tatar, Chechen-Ingush and other collaborators fought.

    The losses of these countries and ethnic groups should also be taken into account in the balance sheet of the losses of the Third Reich coalition when compared with the losses of the USSR, and the losses of Ukrainian, Baltic, Russian, Crimean Tatar, Chechen-Ingush and other German accomplices living on the territory of the USSR as of June 22 1941 years, it is necessary to exclude from the losses of the USSR.

    Plus the loss of the United States and Britain in Europe.

    Only after that it will be possible to objectively assess the losses of the warring parties in WWII at the European theater of operations.

    PS It is desirable to exclude the losses of the Jewish population of Europe as a result of German genocide from the losses of European states, since the vast majority of themselves consider themselves citizens of the Asian state of Israel.
    1. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 23 2018 12: 09
      +3
      There was a cat crying Russian from ROA, Chechens were deported for desertion, they couldn’t frankly run across, according to the Ingush, I. Pykhalov, the author of the compulsory reading books “For which Stalin deported peoples” and “The Great Slandered War” claims that there is a scale disloyalty was much less than Chechen, and it was possible to get by with purely police measures with targeted arrests.

      But these non-friends in any case, the loss of the USSR.

      Bulgaria did not fight against the USSR, more precisely, the USSR went to its borders and declared war, the little brothers had to blow away at the front line against the Germans for friendship with the Germans.

      The Jews of Germany were German citizens, this is for those who until now, in 2K18 claims that Stalin destroyed his people, and the Germans only strangers. Well, this is rubbish both in the first and in the second district. Hitler genocide of German citizens. You still say that Einstein was a Jew, or Mikhail Botvinnik, so neither one nor the other in Jewish was already boom-boom.
      1. Operator
        Operator April 23 2018 12: 37
        +9
        The main losses of the Jewish population of Europe are residents of the Polish Governor General of the Third Reich. If you subtract them from Poland’s losses in WWII, its cry for damage from Germany will greatly decrease, especially since almost all Jews in the territory of the former Polish Republic were arrested by the Polish police of the governor general.

        In second place in terms of Jewish population losses among European countries is Belarus. If you take this into account, then crying Litvin on their own type "every second, third, fourth" greatly diminished in scale.

        I’m not talking about whose citizens were European Jews in 1939-1945, I’m talking about who Jews themselves are now and what they write on modern commemorative tables in former concentration camps - such as “so many Jews died here” without indicating European citizenship . Well, no and no trial.

        On the Eastern Front, the Bulgarian anti-tank artillery regiment fought against the Red Army. Bulgaria was bombed by Americans and British, Bulgarian pilots were shot down by bombers of our allies. The Bulgarian infantry units in large numbers fought against our other allies - the Yugoslavs and Greeks.

        And you tie up with collaborationism - all Ukrainian, Baltic, Russian, Crimean Tatar, Chechen-Ingush and other trash from the population of the USSR, destroyed by the Red Army on the battlefields of the WWII, became subjects of the Third Reich at the time of joining the Wehrmacht, SS, police and auxiliary units after taking an oath of allegiance to the Fuhrer of the German nation.
        1. EvilLion
          EvilLion April 23 2018 16: 58
          +5
          But Great Britain, our ally, did not fight with Finland. I didn’t want to and that’s all, but what the USSR and the Finns have sort of a showdown is the USSR’s business. If the Allies bombed Bulgaria while it was neutral in relation to the USSR, these are also the problems of the Allies and the Bulgarians.

          And the Reich’s citizenship does not negate the fact that before the betrayal, they were citizens of the USSR, and therefore they go according to his losses, easily even to the military, if they managed to be called up and enlisted.

          By the way, the Poles in the Wehrmacht died even more than in the Polish armies, it was they who fought with the Germans. Maybe you remember, in 4 Tankmen, Guslik fled to the Soviet side after the Germans mobilized him. Well, Guslik, it was quite suitable for others, apparently.
          1. Operator
            Operator April 23 2018 18: 52
            +2
            For your understanding: Masha Gaidar renounced Russian citizenship and adopted Ukrainian, so in which case she will be listed in Ukraine, and not in Russia, regardless of where she was born.

            What the hell should I mention, who did not fight Finland in WWII, if the direct question of the balance of losses of the USSR and opponents of the USSR in the European theater of war is considered?

            Are you Bulgarian
          2. Nukesmoke
            Nukesmoke April 23 2018 22: 51
            0
            I fought. This is the United States did not fight. And the British quite demonstratively bombed Pechenga in 1941, by the way losing a bunch of planes.
        2. Olginskiy troll
          Olginskiy troll April 24 2018 16: 02
          0
          five points
    2. MrK
      MrK 2 June 2018 19: 42
      +2
      I agree. I’ll clarify.
      A study by the American military department, "The Yemen Manpower" - the most solid according to the statistical apparatus - determined the number of dead and missing German soldiers in 6 990 728 people. (This does not include deaths in hospitals from wounds, deaths in captivity).
      Losses of troops of the allies of Germany (Hungary, Italy, Romania, Finland and Slovakia) amounted to a total of 1 468 145 people.
      Thus, the total demographic irrevocable losses of Germany and its allies on the Eastern Front amounted to 8 649,3 thousand human.
      And what about the USSR? In his speech on TV, Mironenko once said that it was previously believed that the sum of all these losses of the USSR during the war amounted to 11 444,1 thousand people. These numbers are already out of date.
      To date, 939,7 thousand troops have been excluded from this number, considered at the beginning of the war as missing, but re-drafted into the army on the territory liberated from occupation, as well as 1 836 thousand former soldiers who returned from captivity after the end of the war - only 2775,7 thousand people.
      Thus, the actual number of irretrievable (demographic) losses of the Armed Forces of the USSR amounted to 8 853,3 thousand people . And this is taking into account 2 mln. 723 of thousands of Soviet soldiers and officers who died in German captivity.
  5. EvilLion
    EvilLion April 23 2018 12: 00
    +5
    Overmans has 2.7 million dead Germans by January of the 1945 year, after which there is no data. At the same time, according to his own data, during the summer of 44 the Soviet troops shot dead over 200 corpses, then a lot of things happened, all kinds of Bagration, then some decline in the fall, but a wonderful picture turns out, a million in six months of 44, but by the summer of 44- of all 1.7, plus or minus, there’s no picture right now for sure, but the order of numbers is this. At the same time, the German army was already waging a war for 3 of the year and, in fact, had already purged it, having rolled back to the Soviet borders. After the summer of 1942, the Germans did not have a single strategic victory, only Stalingrad, Kursk and a number of offensive operations of the Red Army of the 1944, each time the Germans draped. It is clear that there were still prisoners and crippled, well, let 4 million. This does not answer the question, but how did the Germans have reached such a deplorable state by that time? 4 million for 3 of the year, this is not even 100% of the size of the invading army, and for the most part all these losses were made up by the grown up boys. They in WWI probably suffered so many general losses, but this did not lead to a shortage of l / s. We did not have time to reach this in the WWI.

    On the other hand, the Red Army was already so exhausted that in the summer of the 44, it began to plug the rear positions with 17-year-olds. And yet, after 11 months, she put in the War such a point that they still remember. That is, the Germans were much worse.

    That is, Overmans openly underestimates losses, and the lack of data for the 1945 year may be intentional, sort of go. Although the 1945th could not give many corpses, there were no longer so many living Germans to kill, and the percentage of surrenders was forbidden.
  6. Weyland
    Weyland April 23 2018 13: 55
    +2
    From this D. Buck concluded that up to a million German prisoners died in the Allied camps. Buck's critics hastened to assure that the prisoners were not starved, and the differences in numbers arose due to careless, relaxed counting.
    Yeah, careless accounting ... How many Boers died in British concentration camps, recall? The Nazis did not feed our prisoners on the grounds that the USSR did not join the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War - and the impudent and pin-dos did not feed the captured Germans on an equally "legitimate" basis, that after the surrender of Germany, they formally lost their status of prisoners of war!
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker April 23 2018 14: 04
      0
      Quote: Weyland
      Buck's critics hastened to assure that the prisoners were not starved, and the differences in numbers arose due to careless, relaxed counting.
      Yeah, careless accounting ...

      I am tormented by vague doubts that the count of captured Germans who were in camps on the territory of the USSR was carried out carelessly.
      1. EvilLion
        EvilLion April 23 2018 16: 51
        +4
        In the camps on the territory of the USSR, he was doing just fine, there it is easy to lead. It’s bad (for the Germans) that they still had to get to the camps, the main cause of death among the Stalingrad prisoners is the banal front-line mess and the unavailability of owls. commands to such a quantity, as a result of 90k only 6k survived.

        And there is a big difference between the number of prisoners at the front, and their number already in the camps. Before the camp, some hot Ryazan guys could even shoot them corny, or they could just die from wounds or exhaustion, especially in winter.
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker April 23 2018 16: 57
          +6
          Quote: EvilLion
          It’s bad (for the Germans) that they still had to get to the camps, the main cause of death among the Stalingrad prisoners is the banal front-line mess and the unavailability of owls. commands to such a quantity, as a result of 90k only 6k survived.

          C'mon .... A mess in people’s heads, not in closets ....
          The condition of the German troops captured near Stalingrad was so bad due to the hunger of recent months that those who could still walk died from typhoid lice.
          Soviet doctors made the maximum possible. But saving German prisoners of war when tens of thousands of Soviet citizens, including children, were dying of starvation in besieged Leningrad, was nonsense.
    2. EvilLion
      EvilLion April 23 2018 16: 44
      0
      Interestingly, and what did these people in the camps do then? And didn’t they be fed with a fig when these people then raked everything that they had destroyed by joint efforts?
  7. NIKNN
    NIKNN April 23 2018 15: 16
    +1
    The mystery of the German casualties in World War II. Part II
    What is already a lot of letters, and where is the secret? ....
    1. shura7782
      shura7782 April 23 2018 16: 39
      +1
      Quote: NIKNN
      The mystery of the German casualties in World War II. Part II
      What is already a lot of letters, and where is the secret? ....

      See part III. wink
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN April 23 2018 16: 43
        +1
        Quote: shura7782
        In part III.

        Ahhh, well, if so ... then yes wink
  8. Nukesmoke
    Nukesmoke April 23 2018 22: 49
    0
    Like this! I admire the German ability to hide ends in water. Now how many do not fight, you will not prove anything!
    1. akims
      akims April 23 2018 23: 19
      0
      Some garbage turns out. Type, bad accounting has been set. Is it the Germans then?
      And about the archives, they say have not been preserved. The Germans had 16 !!! copies of archives. On which they fell upon later. They could not destroy everything and war crimes surfaced in detail. Losses really were somewhere 1 to 3.
      1. Nukesmoke
        Nukesmoke April 24 2018 14: 33
        +1
        Well, the question is priority. It is strategically more profitable to destroy data about your losses.
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  11. Begemot
    Begemot 3 May 2018 14: 54
    +1
    The calculator is the main enemy of historical legends and conjectures.
  12. Snoop
    Snoop 11 May 2018 05: 28
    +1
    So write a scientific paper on this topic. So far, apart from Krivosheev’s work, we don’t have anything intelligible regarding the German losses. And by the way, he is right in pointing out that it’s difficult to determine the exact losses of the Germans, I would say impossible. Take the same various support services, of which they had many. Since 1944, Todt’s same employees were often thrown into plugging holes, but their losses were not taken into account. Take women, served in the women's support services of the Wehrmacht, Kriegsmarine, Luftwaffe. But their losses are also essentially unknown, since until the age of 44 they were not officially military personnel. Only with the creation of a single female support service in 44 did they become members of the armed forces. The Germans themselves do not know how many women they served and how many died. Professor Pfeffer K.G. in the section “German Women and the War” in the book “Results of the Second World War. Conclusions of the vanquished ":
    “There is no doubt that, through voluntary recruitment alone, we would never have been able to create such a huge [481] army of female military personnel, the strength of which has not yet been precisely determined. Official obligations and national socialist legislation on the use of female labor made it possible, if necessary, to force women into military service. ”
    And the loss of all foreign SS legions in general darkness.
  13. Predator
    Predator 11 May 2018 10: 13
    +2
    On October 1.10.1941, 10. according to the Wehrmacht, the list of divisions on the Eastern Front was 11-18 thousand people, out of 220 thousand. We make calculations 7 x 1540 = 3.5 thousand. And this is for 3 months of the war, and XNUMX years ahead ........
  14. Cer59
    Cer59 15 May 2018 21: 23
    0
    The idiocy of stupidity and the complete nonsense of the author are striking.
    Well, read our holy fool:
    German casualties in the second world war.
    Dedicated to the 65th anniversary of our Great Victory.
    http://www.poteryww2.narod.ru/index.html

    the population of Germany on July 22, 1941, 111-117 million people.
    USSR 170 million
    by September, the USSR had lost about 40 million people, if not 45 million.
    Baltic States, Belarus, Ukraine. Germans near Leningrad ....
  15. Dzafdet
    Dzafdet 17 July 2018 16: 28
    -1
    Quote: Predator
    On October 1.10.1941, 10. according to the Wehrmacht, the list of divisions on the Eastern Front was 11-18 thousand people, out of 220 thousand. We make calculations 7 x 1540 = 3.5 thousand. And this is for 3 months of the war, and XNUMX years ahead ........

    The strength of the Wehrmacht division as of June 22.06.1941, 16,5 was 14200 thousand people. RKKA- 8,6 people .... The losses indicated above are ours and the Germans, they really amounted to 8,8 and XNUMX million people ...
  16. Zakirov Damir
    Zakirov Damir 21 November 2018 20: 09
    0
    The real losses of the Wehrmacht and the SS, the Air Force, the Navy were:
    6 947 900 dead in military operations, died from wounds;
    33 died in hospitals after the end of hostilities,
    included in the 700 wounded on a balance sheet;
    51 died at the stage of escort to Soviet camps; they are included in 800 captured during the hostilities on the Eastern Front for the period from 2/785/500 to 22.6.1941/11.5.1945/XNUMX;
    381 died in Soviet camps, are included in the 000 housed in camps;
    77 died in American, English, French captivity;
    Total: 7
    357 Soviet collaborators from among the military personnel of the Red Army and citizens of the USSR are included in 000 according to Krivosheev;
    Total: 7 847 700 of the total mobilized 19 107 000.

    The data I have obtained on the basis of a study of the works of Krivosheev, Müller-Hillebrand, Rüdiger Overmans. Analyze carefully all three - all numbers are on the surface. If the public does not see these figures, then this is a problem for the public, and not for our fathers, grandfathers, and great-grandfathers. They have done their job!
    For me, it’s clear after the study that there is a certain consensus in which the Russian side is already turning a blind eye to the German losses, and the German side to the participation of Soviet collaborators in the Wehrmacht and the SS, military formations outside the Wehrmacht and police units. That was such a geopolitical exchange in the early nineties. Krivosheev was well aware of the real German casualties and soldiers of the Red Army. Data will be open in 2045, when not a single veteran will survive. So the troupe-loaders will die, not the WINNERS! In 2045, these numbers will be revealed!
    1. Zakirov Damir
      Zakirov Damir 21 November 2018 20: 29
      0
      Why is my comment prohibited? I am not a site administrator.