Military Review

Does not correspond to the fifth generation. India withdraws from FGFA

414
The Indian Air Force officially withdrew from the FGFA (Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft) program, under which it was planned to work with Russia to develop a fifth generation combat aircraft based on the Su-57, reports "Warspot" with reference to janes.com.


In October last year, the Indian Air Force Command demanded the closure of the FGFA. In early April of this year, representatives of the Indian Ministry of Defense made an official trip to Russia - one of the topics discussed was India’s withdrawal from the program.

Does not correspond to the fifth generation. India withdraws from FGFA


The Indian Air Force believes that the Russian Su-57 does not meet the stated secrecy requirements. In addition, the Indian side believes that combat avionics, radar and sensors of Russian design do not meet the standards of the fifth generation. At the same time, the Indian military declare that they may later reconsider their plans for the FGFA program, or they will be purchasing production samples of the Su-57 if the characteristics of its final version meet the requirements of the Indian Defense Ministry.

The FGFA program was launched in 2007, its main contractors were PJSC Company Sukhoi from the Russian side and Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd from the Indian side. The countries agreed to create a fifth-generation fighter based on the Russian PAK FA, also known as the T-50 and later renamed the Su-57. A few years later, the FGFA program changed its name to Perspective Multi-Role Fighter (PMF), but even in the Indian Air Force it is still called. As part of the first phase of the program, worth $ 295 million, the design of the Indian fighter was developed, but then the FGFA project did not advance because of the many differences that arose between the parties.
Photos used:
http://neboard.me/
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  1. Livonetc
    Livonetc April 21 2018 15: 38
    +54
    Let them then buy ready-made Russian vehicles.
    1. Muvka
      Muvka April 21 2018 15: 40
      +14
      Most likely they will purchase modified, with a stealth coating Su-35. It will be both cheap and not long in time. And the plane itself is excellent, especially if they work on its invisibility and stick the AFAR.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt April 21 2018 15: 42
        +51
        Quote: Muvka
        Most likely they will purchase modified, with a stealth coating Su-35.

        They will purchase F-35s.
        P.S. If the Su-57 being developed does not suit them in terms of stealth and radar (electronics), then you think the Su-35 is radically better than the 57th))). Money here plays a role insofar as, by the way.
        1. volodya
          volodya April 21 2018 15: 59
          +68
          Most likely they will re-populate, they will not sell anything at all! China has already said what to criticize - do it yourself!
          1. cniza
            cniza April 21 2018 16: 14
            +45
            It is very difficult to work with them, they are constantly throwing fortels, and in all areas.
            1. LSA57
              LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 27
              +16
              Quote: cniza
              It’s very difficult to work with them

              Hi hi
              Small but experience laughing I already shared smile
              We had in practice at the Indian unit. The son of the director of the same plant that we built there.
              He invited our senior unit to the restaurant. Who remembers the 70s, he remembers what it is smile Well, we sat, well, drank ... All in a bunch. The next weekend, our elder invited the Indian to his home on a return visit. Well, put a 3 liter jar of our folk samoplyasa laughing True with a good snack.
              Hindu day four at work. When he arrived, they put externally in a coffin more beautiful. Then from one word "SAMOGON" he turned green and ran away from the post to boast about the contents of the stomach laughing
              1. Doliva63
                Doliva63 April 21 2018 17: 34
                +26
                Quote: LSA57
                Quote: cniza
                It’s very difficult to work with them

                Hi hi
                Small but experience laughing I already shared smile
                We had in practice at the Indian unit. The son of the director of the same plant that we built there.
                He invited our senior unit to the restaurant. Who remembers the 70s, he remembers what it is smile Well, we sat, well, drank ... All in a bunch. The next weekend, our elder invited the Indian to his home on a return visit. Well, put a 3 liter jar of our folk samoplyasa laughing True with a good snack.
                Hindu day four at work. When he arrived, they put externally in a coffin more beautiful. Then from one word "SAMOGON" he turned green and ran away from the post to boast about the contents of the stomach laughing

                3 liters for two ?! belay I'm afraid I would also look like an Indian laughing drinks
                1. LSA57
                  LSA57 April 21 2018 17: 36
                  +7
                  Quote: Doliva63
                  3 liters for two ?!

                  Well, not all drunk laughing put on the table as expected. lol do not bottle wink we are such generous laughing
                  1. Doliva63
                    Doliva63 April 21 2018 18: 06
                    +9
                    Quote: LSA57
                    Quote: Doliva63
                    3 liters for two ?!

                    Well, not all drunk laughing put on the table as expected. lol do not bottle wink we are such generous laughing

                    Well, yes, they drank with an Indian laughing
                    1. LSA57
                      LSA57 April 21 2018 19: 54
                      +2
                      Quote: Doliva63
                      Well, yes, they drank with an Indian

                      amazed laughing laughing
                  2. NN52
                    NN52 April 21 2018 18: 33
                    +5
                    Not even poured into the carafe? drinks
                    1. LSA57
                      LSA57 April 21 2018 19: 56
                      +4
                      Quote: NN52
                      Not even poured into the carafe?

                      belay where is the carafe from? we are not a bar laughing
                      1. Doliva63
                        Doliva63 April 21 2018 20: 08
                        +18
                        About the carafe. We wash the stars. The people graduated at 62, serves at 80. It seems that you need to pour sleeves into the pallet, but what do you put in there? Few. Someone suggested finding a cartridge case from shot 62. No, that's a lot. Let's stupidly drink from a helmet! They called the company from the infantry, asked to bring a helmet. He comes, they explained to him why the helmet is needed. He grit - they would say earlier, I would have brought a sleeve from the T-62 ... Curtain laughing drinks
                  3. izNska
                    izNska April 22 2018 19: 44
                    0
                    Well no. There is simply no time for stupidity.
              2. Vkd dvk
                Vkd dvk April 21 2018 21: 48
                +12
                Quote: LSA57
                Quote: cniza
                It’s very difficult to work with them

                Hi hi
                Small but experience laughing I already shared smile
                We had in practice at the Indian unit. The son of the director of the same plant that we built there.
                He invited our senior unit to the restaurant. Who remembers the 70s, he remembers what it is smile Well, we sat, well, drank ... All in a bunch. The next weekend, our elder invited the Indian to his home on a return visit. Well, put a 3 liter jar of our folk samoplyasa laughing True with a good snack.
                Hindu day four at work. When he arrived, they put externally in a coffin more beautiful. Then from one word "SAMOGON" he turned green and ran away from the post to boast about the contents of the stomach laughing

                And what is the connection of a drunk in the insole of an Indian and aviation? Like a joke, "Speaking of the birds, Vanka’s bell-ringer on .... from the belfry, tweeted twice and died."
                1. LSA57
                  LSA57 April 21 2018 23: 31
                  0
                  Quote: Vkd dvk
                  And what is the connection of a drunk in the insole of an Indian and aviation?

                  gentleman .... but at least not through the line read, "censor" you are ours. I repeat what moonshine. specially for those who are late for the session
                  It’s very difficult to work with them, constantly throwing fortels

                  this is where the conversation started
                  study materiel hi
                  1. Vkd dvk
                    Vkd dvk April 22 2018 00: 38
                    +3
                    Quote: LSA57
                    Quote: Vkd dvk
                    And what is the connection of a drunk in the insole of an Indian and aviation?

                    gentleman .... but at least not through the line read, "censor" you are ours. I repeat what moonshine. specially for those who are late for the session
                    It’s very difficult to work with them, constantly throwing fortels

                    this is where the conversation started
                    study materiel hi

                    It’s better for you to organize some kind of your own fortel and exchange recipes for moonshine there. But do not start allegory on the military obrozhenie. It’s hard to work at all. And with those who pursue their own, and not your goals, especially. Hindus bring down prices. And if we don’t “meet us,” they will again say “Hindi-Russians bhai-bhai”, and they will buy ours, and for that price. which we appointed. If they go to buy from the Americans, you can wish them eternal happiness.
                    1. LSA57
                      LSA57 April 22 2018 01: 35
                      0
                      [quote = Vkd Dvk] It is better for you to organize your own trick and exchange moonshine recipes there. [/ quote]
                      Thanks, I'll think about it hi
                      [quote] But do not start allegory on the military obrozhenie. / quote]
                      with this question to admins hi
                      [quote] And with those who pursue their own, not your goals [/ quote]
                      How do you know my goals?
                      when presenting, read comments a couple of times
                  2. Vkd dvk
                    Vkd dvk April 22 2018 00: 55
                    +2
                    Quote: LSA57
                    this is where the conversation started

                    The time for adjustment has gone, I am writing in addition. Hindus need to be corrected a little. They are deeply wrong. Commercial laws prohibit the reduction of negative characteristics to products. Moreover, invented. Here, in every way, even hypertrophied praise is not prohibited.
                    1. tun5t
                      tun5t April 22 2018 17: 39
                      0
                      The Hindus of Amers were allowed to go where they should not, they meet with kurbashi-shaving, maybe you can open your eyes ?! (Dullness goes off scale, not without reason at one time Peter 1 removed the capital, away from sin
              3. Peter Rusin
                Peter Rusin April 22 2018 14: 16
                0
                Hindu one word !! I was towing Gremikha (in February) from the PM-65 Floating Workshop to Murmansk, for cutting into scrap metal! So with the captain of NEFTEGAZ (tug) a 3-liter can of alcohol for two days we persuaded, without diluting))
            2. Tiksi-3
              Tiksi-3 April 21 2018 16: 34
              +17
              Quote: cniza
              constantly throwing throws, and in all areas.

              they are gypsies ... what did you want from them?
            3. alexmach
              alexmach April 21 2018 16: 43
              +16
              In my opinion the news is very "not very". It’s possible that they’ll get to the bottom, but still they know more about ours with you about the characteristics of the aircraft and the current state of the project. And such a decision is alarming. It is clear that in fact, none of the existing machines now meet 100% of the requirements declared for the fifth generation (except perhaps the F-22 itself can be).
              1. Sirocco
                Sirocco April 21 2018 17: 38
                +13
                Quote: alexmach
                but nevertheless they know more about the characteristics of the aircraft and the current state of the project more than ours with you.

                They always have force majeure on all matters relating to armaments and deliveries thereof, then one or the other, or even taken together, are traded as always, and like gypsies, although why)))) The gypsies' neighbors were in the 80s, horror as the Indian films loved, according to the children, they understood something, how.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach April 21 2018 18: 19
                  +9
                  Nevertheless, there is absolutely nothing to rejoice at. Left without Indian money and received indirect evidence of the unavailability of the aircraft.
                  1. Aleks2048
                    Aleks2048 April 21 2018 21: 30
                    +13
                    It is possible that the problem is not SU57 ... or the readiness of the project ... It seems to me that in general India, being extremely dissatisfied with China's strengthening, and also taking into account the emerging friendship, although probably not friendship, but closer cooperation between the Russian Federation and China, wishes go to the US camp, especially since the latter will gladly accept such a gift of fate and will be ready to make financial concessions, since the economy allows. I fully admit the possibility of secret negotiations between the United States and India. By the way, this says a lot ... For example, in the Russian Federation as a whole, state-controlled media outlets actually systematically began to form among the masses the formation of an unreliable and extremely unpleasant military partner from India, it seems that the Russian defense industry is smoothly preparing to lose this market, and the United States by dumping prices their weapons will completely occupy this niche.
                    1. alexmach
                      alexmach April 21 2018 22: 58
                      +2
                      I agree, there can really be a lot of deeper reasons. I’m just reading your thoughts.
                      wants to go to US camp

                      I fully admit the possibility of secret negotiations between the United States and India.

                      It looks like the defense industry complex of Russia is smoothly preparing to lose this market

                      Something from them makes me even sadder than from my own.
                      1. Aleks2048
                        Aleks2048 April 22 2018 14: 36
                        +4
                        Actually, I don’t think that everything was lost and that everything should be abandoned and sad ... I think that Pakistan can do a lot with reasonable heating ... Yes, the Hindus themselves can change their minds, long contracts with Russia tightly bound the Indian army to weapons from The Russian Federation, and even very large, but temporary injections of weapons from the United States into India, will require a sharp increase in the culture of servicing expensive equipment, they will require investments in the material and technical base because repair bases do not arise on their own, and servicing expensive toys requires certain costs ... I think Indians they will receive cute toys that only show for the whole world, but domestic (from the Russian Federation) equipment will continue to work. Over time, Trump will leave, and the US economy loves China too much and it is unknown that the future US president can love China very much ... and India can fly for money ... Everything is too uncertain in the economy ... Namely, the economy dictates politics. So, at the moment it is better to stock up on popcorn and cola ... the movie promises to be very long and exciting. wink
                      2. Aleks2048
                        Aleks2048 April 22 2018 21: 05
                        0
                        By the way, China is able to outbid India from the United States if the latter begin to warm up the mood in India to aggravate the protracted territorial conflict between India and China.
                    2. Sirocco
                      Sirocco April 23 2018 14: 38
                      0
                      Quote: Alex2048
                      I fully admit the possibility of secret negotiations between the United States and India.

                      I think this is a fait accompli, they are sitting on two chairs, and as evidence of the Indo-Ukrainian bicopia, this is an admission to the submarines purchased by us from American specialists. Well, the Russian Federation, as always, expressed concern about this fact)))) No matter how the Indians turned out like in a movie, For two hares))))
                      1. Aleks2048
                        Aleks2048 April 23 2018 20: 07
                        0
                        She ... Indians will not receive from two birds with one stone. Rather, seven nannies will have 14 tites. There is no emptiness in the economy and if, due to politics, a vacuum is artificially temporarily created, it is filled with illegal supply in response to emerging demand. The sadness is that in the next tender for the purchase of weapons, India will make a discount that our defense industry will provide.
              2. Vlad.by
                Vlad.by April 21 2018 18: 31
                +17
                Yes, not news at all. The fact that the Indians will leave this program became clear when they were told that they would not be completely transferred the technology. Well, yes, the Moor has done his job, the Moor may leave. Americans, too, will not transfer technology to them, and how many decades will butt for a contract - only Brahma knows. Of course, the situation is not the best, but not fatal. Because how to return to our weapons will be on new conditions, and they will certainly be better than now. They have not yet broken the Poseidons and have not seen the bill for their repairs. Then Brahma and enlightenment will send on their head. Not everyone, of course. Someone who sticks a piece to their hands will stand behind the striped weapon to the end, but there are few of them.
                1. alexmach
                  alexmach April 21 2018 18: 35
                  +1
                  But after all, they agreed on something at the beginning of the program then. Are they then promised to give everything?
                  1. Solomon Kane
                    Solomon Kane April 22 2018 00: 07
                    +10
                    Are they then promised to give everything?

                    Not all, but Yes! At that time, the money for the Start Apa is Indian, oh how useful ...
                    But! Read the article carefully! Promising project. 2007. All that our Indians paid could “stick” them, but .....
                    As time went on, technical capabilities increased ..... again "but" .. this is other money, Comrades! Again, "friends" in the West "combed" .....
                    The policy of the Hindus has long been clear, as the situation with the purchase of an apartment from the developer: they paid for the "naked" odnushka in Biryulyovo, but they want a VIP apartment in Kutuzovsky ........
                2. yehat
                  yehat April 22 2018 13: 29
                  +4
                  It is not a matter of technology transfer itself, but that Indians want all the technology of the project in general, investing a quarter of the money needed for development on their strength.
                  Moreover, part of these technologies is a state secret.
                  If they were honestly traded and were sane trading partners, like the Chinese, then the Russian Federation would give everything they needed, but no - they want to confuse and rob. Now let them step on the rake again, as recently with the French. They wanted cheap stuff - in the end they got nothing. And they didn’t give a damn about the porch, speaking negatively about the performance characteristics of the aircraft and understanding little about it.
                  I don’t think that there, in India, are solid d_bills who do not understand that the advertising performance characteristics of American aircraft are fiction. I don’t understand another thing - what they ultimately want, because they will not receive what is declared from anyone.
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack April 22 2018 13: 49
                    +2
                    Quote: yehat
                    Indians want all the technology of the project ...
                    Moreover, part of these technologies is a state secret

                    Um ... but just now Voyaka Uh claimed that
                    Quote: voyaka uh
                    The Hindus asked for assembly at home, not for the production of all parts ...

                    And how to put it all together in your head? I do not understand request
                    1. yehat
                      yehat April 22 2018 16: 50
                      +2
                      they received the assembly even so, but they wanted more - one of the last requirements was to fully transfer the technology of the engines of the 2 stages for production at home, and without any additional charges.
              3. Gennadich
                Gennadich April 21 2018 22: 53
                +5
                you are right, cheers patriotism is out of place here .... toggt f 222 and f 35 are already serial and closer to the 5th generation ... we only have laboratories flying
                1. Abel
                  Abel April 22 2018 23: 53
                  0
                  F-35 serial? Surround !! Already the USA refuse them: expensive and tasteless. Now billions are needed to finalize and fix already sold
                  1. Gennadich
                    Gennadich April 23 2018 00: 31
                    0
                    you don’t worry about their billions, who has the printing press and the fist of power in the world? -that is .... finalizing serial products is still better than a flying laboratory
                    1. YELLOWSTONE
                      YELLOWSTONE April 23 2018 10: 36
                      +1
                      not always, it happens that then you have to write off too much in junk with excuses that this is due to problems with the very finances (this has already been stated).
              4. Bad_santa
                Bad_santa April 22 2018 00: 52
                +8
                Well, about the low stealth indicators in the radio range, they are most likely right. Even in the picture for the article, look at the cockpit lantern. It is not integral and at the junctions we can’t talk about any stealth technologies. Yes, and he himself is transparent. And there are a lot of such trifles, both obvious and hidden, in this aircraft. So it’s possible to judge by such trifles the culture of designing and assembling this aircraft. Strongly there, no one bothered about stealth technology. So the Indians are somewhat right
                1. Conserp
                  Conserp April 22 2018 13: 25
                  +4
                  Quote: Bad_Santa
                  Even in the picture for the article, look at the cockpit lantern. It is not integral and at the junctions we can’t talk about any stealth technologies.

                  Illiterate delirium.
                  1. ZVO
                    ZVO April 23 2018 10: 21
                    0
                    Quote: Conserp
                    Quote: Bad_Santa
                    Even in the picture for the article, look at the cockpit lantern. It is not integral and at the junctions we can’t talk about any stealth technologies.

                    Illiterate delirium.


                    And what is the nonsense?
                    The man correctly wrote that for the 5th generation - the lantern must be solid.
                    The lantern must be "gold" - i.e. have a multilayer structure that does not allow reflection of radio waves from elements of the cabin and the ejection seat.
                    Etc.
                    In those photos and videos of the Su-57 that go until recently - we do not see such a flashlight.
                    1. Conserp
                      Conserp April 23 2018 10: 30
                      0
                      Quote: ZVO
                      The man correctly wrote that for the 5th generation - the lantern must be solid.

                      The man wrote illiterate nonsense. And you write illiterate nonsense, as always.

                      Quote: ZVO
                      The lantern must be "gold"
                      This has nothing to do with "integrity".

                      For stealth, integrity is not needed, and a solid flashlight was never even a close sign of the 5th generation.
                      A solid flashlight does not give any advantages at all, on the contrary, it creates problems when ejecting.

                      Attempting to eject supersonic aircraft from American aircraft is fatal.
                      1. ZVO
                        ZVO April 23 2018 10: 46
                        0
                        Quote: Conserp
                        Quote: ZVO
                        The man correctly wrote that for the 5th generation - the lantern must be solid.

                        The man wrote illiterate nonsense. And you write illiterate nonsense, as always.

                        Quote: ZVO
                        The lantern must be "gold"
                        This has nothing to do with "integrity".

                        For stealth, integrity is not needed, and a solid flashlight was never even a close sign of the 5th generation.
                        A solid flashlight does not give any advantages at all, on the contrary, it creates problems when ejecting.

                        Attempting to eject supersonic aircraft from American aircraft is fatal.


                        You are talking nonsense ...
                        And here is supersonic?
                        Most vehicle accidents occur during take-off and landing modes.
                        At subsonic speeds.
                        One-piece flashlight must be on a stealth aircraft.
                        This has already been proven by all aircraft manufacturers.
                        And yes, aircraft are not built for bailouts, but for combat missions.
                        And stealth is the basis for the performance of a combat mission. But not the bailout of the pilot.
                        And yes, bring proofs that the lights of the latest versions of F-16, F-22, F-35, J-20 - kill / maim the pilot ...

                        The lack of repetition creates problems with distortions, makes us make more durable nodes, mechanisms. fastenings.
                        Creating a single, non-binding glass is a difficult task that not everyone can afford.
                        But lack of repetition - this is another brick in the overall stealth of the aircraft. And recognized by all.

                        And only one local rascal - says that the binding is garbage.
                        And alas, you!
                      2. yehat
                        yehat April 23 2018 10: 50
                        0
                        But how did the T50 flashlight take care of the lack of reflection?
                    2. Conserp
                      Conserp April 23 2018 11: 39
                      0
                      Quote: ZVO
                      One-piece flashlight must be on a stealth aircraft.

                      It remains only to repeat - illiterate delirium.

                      "Integrity" should only be electric.

                      Quote: ZVO
                      Creating a single, non-binding glass is a difficult task that not everyone can afford.

                      It was beyond anyone's strength even in the 50s. Even the Chinese do it.

                      What can I say - another illiterate nonsense.
                      1. ZVO
                        ZVO April 23 2018 15: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Conserp
                        Quote: ZVO
                        One-piece flashlight must be on a stealth aircraft.

                        It remains only to repeat - illiterate delirium.

                        "Integrity" should only be electric.

                        Quote: ZVO
                        Creating a single, non-binding glass is a difficult task that not everyone can afford.

                        It was beyond anyone's strength even in the 50s. Even the Chinese do it.

                        What can I say - another illiterate nonsense.


                        Oh well. what was there in the 50s?
                        Acrylic Glass Technology ...
                        With such an aplomb, blaming others for delirium is a complete nonsense ...
                        Enough self-fulfillment at someone else’s expense - you have too high FSW ... Having nothing behind ...
              5. SAG
                SAG April 22 2018 03: 44
                +9
                The Indian Air Force believes that the Russian Su-57 does not meet the stated requirements for secrecy. In addition, the Indian side believes that the combat avionics, radars and sensors of the Russian development do not meet the standards of the fifth generation

                Ah ha ha, I laughed for a long time both from them and from you))
                Hindus ahead of the rest in the field of 5th generation combat aircraft and know more about them laughing
                Have you ever wondered who formulates the requirements for new generations of military equipment ?! The answer is on the surface (those who are at the forefront of new developments on new principles) there are no Hindus here, except for the USA and Russia there is nobody there (except maybe some European manufacturers of individual elements)
                F-22 does not meet Russian requirements for 5th generation aircraft, such as over-maneuverability, multi-radar and take-off from a distance of 300-400m
                1. yehat
                  yehat April 22 2018 13: 30
                  +4
                  as well as practical range and a number of other requirements.
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 April 22 2018 23: 45
                    0
                    Quote: yehat
                    F-22 does not meet Russian requirements for 5th generation aircraft, such as over-maneuverability, multi-radar and take-off from a distance of 300-400m

                    Quote: yehat
                    as well as practical range and a number of other requirements.

                    We just have a different vision with 5th generation amers on most points - they emphasize stealth and dance primarily from this, we primarily have over maneuverability and dance already from it, as well as in terms of speed, range of enemy detection , and the battle ranges are approximately the same.
                    1. yehat
                      yehat April 23 2018 10: 43
                      +1
                      both sides agree that the 5th generation necessarily includes new standards of operational maneuverability - dramatically increased cruising speed. But speed without fuel is useless. For Americans, the F-22 has a radius of a front-line fighter and cannot realize its potential without additional tanks, and with tanks it loses stealth. And it doesn’t matter who sees the other details - the Americans themselves have created a problem that severely limits the combat capability of the f22.
            4. True
              True April 21 2018 17: 23
              +13
              Quote: cniza
              It’s very difficult to work with them, constantly throwing fortels, and in all areas

              This is their 24 Russia does not catch. He catches you and working with you is simple. All God's dew.
              1. Don
                Don April 21 2018 21: 11
                +7
                good Uryakalok has a split personality today. How is it that the Su-57, in their opinion, is the best combat aircraft in the world, after all, they said so according to the zombie creator, and he cannot lie. Rather, it can, but only western, and ours is correct, expounding only truth lol And why Indians then do not take? Yes, everything is simple, in their opinion, the gypsies just blamed something laughing
                1. Vlad.by
                  Vlad.by April 22 2018 20: 44
                  +2
                  And he is already the best, whatever you think. If only because he is 20 years younger than his American counterpart. Pregnant penguin ecu is not suitable for soles, and f-22 is already shamelessly outdated and now it is equal to our 4 ++
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 April 22 2018 23: 42
                    +1
                    Well, the 22nd snout is still far ahead of the rest in terms of stealth indicators, on the other hand, that it doesn’t change much - modern air defense systems see it well, from which the Americans are trying not to shine it especially in front of the same S-400 in Syria, well and the cost of coverage, which must be constantly updated very, very American.
                    Well, in general, the 22nd and 57th are very asymmetric - the first emphasis on stealth, the second on over maneuverability, the first should operate primarily in a strange sky, the second should cover its own.
                    1. ZVO
                      ZVO April 23 2018 10: 22
                      +3
                      Quote: Albert1988
                      the second on super maneuverability, the first should operate primarily in a strange sky, the second to cover his own.


                      To modern missiles, the aircraft’s over-maneuverability is not an obstacle.

                      But stealth is an obstacle for all missiles and all aircraft ...
                      1. Albert1988
                        Albert1988 April 23 2018 22: 15
                        0
                        Quote: ZVO
                        To modern missiles, the aircraft’s over-maneuverability is not an obstacle.
                        But stealth is an obstacle for all missiles and all aircraft ...

                        Not a fact, and stealth for missiles of air defense systems like the same S-300 is also not a strong hindrance.
              2. 72jora72
                72jora72 April 22 2018 01: 38
                +5
                This is their 24 Russia does not catch. He catches you and working with you is simple. All God's dew.
                and why was all this said, a crisis of communication?
            5. sir_obs
              sir_obs April 21 2018 17: 37
              +7
              Presentation. Was just without songs and dances.
            6. Krasnoyarsk
              Krasnoyarsk April 21 2018 18: 09
              +10
              Quote: cniza
              It is very difficult to work with them, they are constantly throwing fortels, and in all areas.

              It seems to me that this is not the case. Or not quite at that. I think that the Indians comparing the performance characteristics of the Su-57 and F-35 came to the conclusion that the Su-57 is not enough. And given the fact that their development based on the Su-57, a priori will be worse than the Su-57, then they made, in my opinion, the right decision.
              1. Albert1988
                Albert1988 April 21 2018 18: 48
                +5
                "Not enough"? Yes, at the price of 57th to 35th it does not reach much wink
                As for stealth, I’ll tell you a secret, with it the same F-35 is not much better than the Su-57, but to Khryapa, which the F-22, 57th really does not reach, and with the “penguin” it there is not much difference.
                1. Totah155
                  Totah155 April 21 2018 20: 35
                  +5
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  As for stealth, I’ll tell you a secret, with it the same F-35 is not much better than the Su-57,

                  Proof in the studio
                  And please add the price of 57
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 April 22 2018 23: 33
                    +1
                    Quote: Totah155
                    Proof in the studio
                    And please add the price of 57

                    Of course, I understand that due to the art of the Roskompozor with the Durov messenger, Google doesn’t work for some people, but there is Yandex, there are articles on VO)))
                2. Krasnoyarsk
                  Krasnoyarsk April 22 2018 13: 23
                  +1
                  Quote: Albert1988
                  "Not enough"? Yes, at the price of 57th to 35th it does not reach much wink
                  As for stealth, I’ll tell you a secret, with it the same F-35 is not much better than the Su-57, but to Khryapa, which the F-22, 57th really does not reach, and with the “penguin” it there is not much difference.

                  I’m a poorly educated person, so I don’t understand your Khryapa and Penguin. And from here and your whole post.
                  1. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 April 22 2018 23: 37
                    0
                    Quote: Krasnoyarsk
                    I’m a poorly educated person, so I don’t understand your Khryapa and Penguin. And from here and your whole post.

                    Well, I’m deciphering it - the “penguin” is the F-35, so named because of its resemblance to a swimming penguin - it’s a little potty, and also the association with the Americans, who are often called Ami after Yugoslavia - is a Serbian penguin.
                    Khryapa - hryaptor - raptor - it’s clear who we are talking about, so in the circles of our aircraft designers they call F-22, the hog became almost their native)))
          2. Nyrobsky
            Nyrobsky April 21 2018 16: 25
            +26
            Quote: volodya
            Most likely they will re-populate, they will not sell anything at all! China has already said what to criticize - do it yourself!

            That's right, let these gypsies in turban on elephants fly. They wanted to get balloons and planes and technologies and production on their territory in exchange for seasoning hazel and scented candles. Let them flip around the market and find someone who agrees to their conditions.
            1. Andrey NM
              Andrey NM April 21 2018 16: 36
              +16
              And what generation do they have? One flies, and everyone prays at him ... Or maybe not to fall?
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 April 21 2018 17: 40
                +3
                Quote: Andrey NM
                And what generation do they have?

                maximum 1 ++++++++ ..... ++++++
                1. Abel
                  Abel April 22 2018 23: 58
                  +1
                  Indian, eight-seater, single-engine
              2. Lumumba
                Lumumba April 21 2018 18: 35
                +5
                As I personally watched such a presentation, there was still a type of bicycle, a magic pyramid, I couldn’t stand it for a long time, I had to go to the toilet in order to burst, I barely kept not laughing right on the podium, they’re big
          3. faridg7
            faridg7 April 21 2018 17: 50
            +6
            Quote: volodya
            Most likely they will re-populate, they will not sell anything at all! China has already said what to criticize - do it yourself!

          4. Letun
            Letun April 21 2018 18: 57
            +3
            Quote: volodya
            Most likely they will re-populate, they will not sell anything at all!

            Who will not? We? But there will be the USA and Europe. Before you settle down, think to whom it is more profitable. We are losing money, Indians will spend their money in any case, but they will go to the development of not our enterprises and research institutes, but of the West ... But yes, you can farm likes with such a post!
        2. Hire
          Hire April 21 2018 16: 02
          +29
          combat avionics, radars and sensors of Russian design do not meet the standards of the fifth generation.

          Maybe someone will tell me. who developed these standards and when? And where did the Indians get them from?
          1. the most important
            the most important April 21 2018 16: 18
            +29
            Quote: Hire
            Maybe someone will tell me. who developed these standards and when? And where did the Indians get them from?

            And didn’t you know ??? There are no tusks on the plane - ramming is impossible !!! No ears - hear nothing !! And the coloring is too boring ... - the flowers should be all over the glider and around a ball of smoke sandalwood !!!
            1. Hire
              Hire April 21 2018 16: 41
              +17
              Quote: the most important
              flowers should be around the glider and around a ball of smoke sandalwood !!!

              laughing Well then, I have ammunition for them
              1. LSA57
                LSA57 April 21 2018 17: 41
                +5
                Quote: Hire
                Well then, I have ammunition for them

                they need reusable rubber
                1. Hire
                  Hire April 21 2018 17: 46
                  +9
                  Quote: LSA57
                  they need reusable rubber

                  To counter the Chinese? smile This is too cruel.
                  1. LSA57
                    LSA57 April 21 2018 17: 53
                    +4
                    Quote: Hire
                    To counter the Chinese?

                    rather to the Pakistanis. for the Chinese, super reusable, made of rubber
                    1. Hire
                      Hire April 21 2018 17: 56
                      +8
                      Quote: LSA57
                      rather to the Pakistanis. for the Chinese, super reusable, made of rubber

                      You are Kindness itself! smile
            2. Letun
              Letun April 21 2018 18: 59
              +6
              Quote: the most important
              And didn’t you know ??? There are no tusks on the plane - ramming is impossible !!! No ears - hear nothing !! And the coloring is too boring ... - the flowers should be all over the glider and around a ball of smoke sandalwood !!!

              Most important, I’m 100% sure that the Indians are not dumber than you and those, at the moment, 16 idiots plus your not quite smart post ...
              1. Hire
                Hire April 21 2018 19: 53
                +16
                Is there anything specific? Or did you just really want to write the word "ryakolka"? winked
                1. Letun
                  Letun April 21 2018 22: 07
                  +5
                  Quote: Hire
                  Is there anything specific? Or did you just really want to write the word "ryakolka"? winked

                  Scream laughing Dear, before you settle down, you would read a post on which I wrote a comment. Or do you really think that in India, where 1 billion people live, where the economy grows so that our Kudrin-Siluanov never dreamed of, really dumb people live a la "plane with horns for a ram and made of sandalwood"? Yes, calm down you already. We are the most exceptional, yes. laughing
                  1. Golovan Jack
                    Golovan Jack April 21 2018 22: 20
                    +9
                    Quote: Letun
                    in India, where 1 billion people live, where the economy grows so that our Kudrin-Siluanov never dreamed of, really stupid people live a la "plane with horns for ram and sandalwood"?

                    Excuse me, have you ever seen a living Indian? Communicated? My doubts.
                    And here I was - talking, but not with those that are hanging around on the street, but with the type of elite - programmers from Bangalore itself, wherever belay
                    Impression - goofy goofies, and in general ... they’re kind of strange ... you explain, as a person, what he did wrong, how to fix it ... "ec, ec ..." Obahees.
                    Does it all the same wrong, and wrong. But, it should be noted, they already learned to cover the ass with pieces of paper - formally, he completed everything. And that it didn’t work, it doesn’t work - it’s not him, panimish, sadness.
                    Quote: Letun
                    the economy is growing so that ...

                    Sure sure...
                    There are a billion people, a billion, Karl !! Perhaps what is growing there, just as this India was poor and half-wild in its mass, will remain for a long time to come.
                    And to work with them - brrrrrr ... God forbid from such happiness stop
                    1. Letun
                      Letun April 21 2018 23: 07
                      +5
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      Excuse me, have you ever seen a living Indian? Communicated? My doubts.

                      Banged in a puddle ...
                      Quote: Golovan Jack
                      Impression - goofy goofies, and in general ...

                      So I and grew, we Russians are exceptional! Take me pajalsta to your scammers campaign repeat You are so peppy to each other like doing tongue laughing
                      1. Golovan Jack
                        Golovan Jack April 21 2018 23: 18
                        +8
                        Quote: Letun
                        Quote: Golovan Jack
                        Excuse me, have you ever seen a living Indian? Communicated? My doubts.

                        Banged in a puddle ...

                        It's you in vain ... you need to be more careful, and more thorough.
                        And you are an Indian, that is, except in the picture - you have not seen.
                        For some reason, I immediately thought wink
                        Quote: Letun
                        Take me to your campaign

                        Oooooooo, how everything is running ...
                        Quote: Letun
                        Native, you before ...

                        ... words with mouth mouth, at least sometimes try to think, hop?
                        What I wrote - I saw myself. In an area in which there are many that I can. Is there anything to argue about the case? Go ahead, welcome. No - roll off. You are nobody to me, and it’s impossible to call you.
                        Something like this yes
                  2. Hire
                    Hire April 22 2018 11: 03
                    +8
                    Quote: Letun
                    Scream

                    laughing I was right. You, dear, stupid hamlo and demagogue. You will poke your finger in the ass. Tighten yourself, learn at least a few words, in addition to the "stuff". Be inventive. And then it hurts to look: like a Russian, but such a primitive schmo ...
                  3. Mih1974
                    Mih1974 April 22 2018 18: 16
                    +2
                    And wat you yourself as a "reason" can lead? tongue Let’s take the public “achievements” of the Indian military-industrial complex: the обор ж ж ун "’ tanks, having an almost unlimited number of modern Russian tanks and tank sets, could not create a comparable model, and some kind of wretched shelter, their обор ж ж ун "’ ’is both more and harder and less protected, inferior to tools in electronics (if not Israeli); aviation - “Tajiks”, I'm sorry to see what India did in the field of aviation (military) has always been an attempt to imitate and always extremely unsuccessful, their latest model of achievements also did not become a “breakthrough”, while I want to note that even the tiny Sweden against India the same Greenspan, not the Su-35 and not the "hryaptor," but it’s also quite suitable for itself.
                    And note - next to China, very similar to them in the initial conditions, ALREADY tearing the economy of the World, they already make tanks, so to speak, so different from the original, they are afraid to sell modern aviation because they can really steal a lot and start making full copies (parts). I will not venture to judge how much the Chinese copy of the Su-27 reached the level of the original or even surpassed it against the background of the obsolescence of the "twenty-seventh", but no one dares to call China backward in both military and civilian technologies. Okay with aviation and tanks, maybe the Indians made world-class artillery, maybe at least small arms? The answer is the same - NO. negative
                    Hindus are descendants of a very highly developed and “smart” people, therefore they have nuggets of just a fantastic natural mind, but civilizationally, at the level of the Country, they really slipped to the level of nomadic gypsies. negative Once again - compare them with the Chinese, who are in about the same climate zone, with the same population good
              2. Abel
                Abel April 23 2018 00: 01
                +1
                They are not stupid, they are greedy stupid: everything is free
            3. Don
              Don April 21 2018 21: 23
              +6
              Quote: the most important
              And didn’t you know ??? There are no tusks on the plane - ramming is impossible !!! No ears - hear nothing !! And the coloring is too boring ... - the flowers should be all over the glider and around a ball of smoke sandalwood !!!

              Yes, calm down already, and not only you, but all those who rushed to insult the Indians for abandoning this project. The goalkeepers behave like offended, abandoned girls. It’s good that the authorities are at least holding back, it’s not appropriate for a country like Russia to behave so low like brothel ladies.
          2. venik
            venik April 21 2018 17: 47
            +7
            Quote: Hire
            Maybe someone will tell me. who developed these standards and when? And where did the Indians get them from?

            ==========
            Here, my friend is already fit to quote Zhvanetsky: “A person has sorrow, he wants to bargain! A legitimate desire !!”
        3. mig29mks
          mig29mks April 21 2018 16: 14
          +9
          They thought that something like a fabulous viman will work, but no)))))
          1. LSA57
            LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 29
            +6
            Quote: mig29mks
            They thought that something like a fabulous viman will work, but no)))))

            Well, like a supersonic invisible aircraft carrier laughing
        4. figwam
          figwam April 21 2018 16: 15
          +11
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          They will purchase F-35s.

          It is very expensive and no one will give them technology. And according to the Su-57, they are so traded.
        5. edge
          edge April 21 2018 17: 13
          +4
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          They will purchase F-35s.

          they just wanted to grab the 5th generation, and then the bummer needs to be worked out, and this is pretty time-consuming "I will buy everything said gold ..."
        6. Kent0001
          Kent0001 April 21 2018 18: 17
          +2
          So that they do not buy, it will not fly in their hands.
        7. Dreamboat
          Dreamboat April 21 2018 19: 46
          +4
          The SU-57 is not suitable for them because of bribes and pressure from the United States.
          So let them buy the F-35 underfighter for an exorbitant price.
        8. Ustin
          Ustin April 22 2018 12: 29
          +1
          Money plays a significant role here. Now they have a standard task - to "squeeze" to the maximum, at the same time they decide to increase their share in the project. Moreover, there is such an opportunity. All this went through the MiG 27, Su 30MKI. Yes, and the last generation of the military leadership in India is oriented to the West. Something like this ...
        9. Alex777
          Alex777 April 22 2018 15: 03
          +1
          They will purchase F-35s.

          Do not tell my horseshoes! laughing
          To purchase the F-35 you need everything else. And ammunition, and service, and tankers, etc., etc.
          Therefore, they can’t get anywhere from our technology, because there are a lot of planes, and changing the entire infrastructure will definitely not have enough money. The Indians are still armed with the MIG-21. Buying our combat aircraft is cheaper than developing for Hindu requirements. And you say that this is not a question of money. bully
          But what they want is technology. Neither we nor the Yankees will give them to them. But they are trying to bargain. And the last - the defense minister who lobbied for the F-35 - several months as a retired. And the new woman is our man. So the option of purchasing our Su-57 will turn out both cheaper and faster. hi
          1. Mih1974
            Mih1974 April 22 2018 18: 29
            +1
            Excuse me, HOW do we get our technology "here to make a rasp" out of my head? fool These dancers with tambourines have already "improved" our Su-30s before installing one new and one old engine belay am which led to a series of accidents. They say the aircraft carrier from the "pot" on the first trip - their crew managed to ditch. And this is only the loudest, how much more they "technologically improve" they managed to scare me to think. No, if you approach from the point of view "give us the drawings, descriptions, specifications, tables and we will sell it together to the Americans, they will figure it out," then - yes, it will work, but whatever it wants. What will it give them for example ".. take the ***** altimeter produced by the ***** factory, attach it to M-23 and connect it to ****** and ***** with the appropriate cables ... "? Or they also ALL of those documentation on avionics, engines, metallurgy to give?
            1. Alex777
              Alex777 April 23 2018 10: 07
              0
              Yes, I don’t argue that they don’t have to give anything.
              Therefore, FGFA is not needed. In this project, they had to invest money in exchange for technology. But we do not need technology exchange IMHO. Let the finished buy. hi
        10. Mih1974
          Mih1974 April 22 2018 16: 56
          0
          What kind of idiots should they be to “stand in line” themselves against the background of the rest of the pool of buyers who are reducing or even abandoning Fu35? fool negative
          But as they say - each Aibolit himself tongue
      2. NN52
        NN52 April 21 2018 15: 49
        +11
        So they wanted to cut a double with us ... And this is almost a half new plane, unlike 57 ... And there is no need to invest money for development ... And they need today and now practically ...
        And I think then they will not be sold to them Su 57 .... As Americans, their 22, too, so far no one ...
        1. yehat
          yehat April 22 2018 16: 55
          0
          they need a double for naval aviation, and this is a long topic, nowhere to rush
          for single defense is enough.
      3. Nevsky_ZU
        Nevsky_ZU April 21 2018 16: 14
        +15
        Maybe they watched the speech of the Minister of Defense Sergei Shoigu at the conference call, where he made a reservation calling Su-57 4 generation fighter? Ay da Kuzhugetovich laughing

        We look at 2: 42:

      4. forester
        forester April 21 2018 16: 24
        +15
        I’m not pretending to do anything, but I think their refusal is connected with our refusal to transfer all technologies - joint work does not always provide for this — that’s why it was worn out. After all, we understand that from them our secrets can sail away to a potential enemy - mattresses with which the Indians also cooperate in the field of weapons
        1. Shahno
          Shahno April 21 2018 16: 31
          +18
          The Hindus understand what they want ... Their avionics and VPK load their glider. It will not work, they do not have such a relationship with the states. These will hand over with giblets for loot ... Our prime minister talked recently. They all leave no desire to throw Raphael.
          You do not know how to sit on two chairs, it is better to stay at all.
          1. Incvizitor
            Incvizitor April 21 2018 17: 04
            +7
            You do not know how to sit on two chairs, it is better to stay at all.

            It’s better to put your chair together, but unfortunately your hands ...
          2. XXXIII
            XXXIII April 21 2018 17: 29
            +3
            Quote: Shahno
            The Hindus understand what they want ... Their avionics and VPK load their glider. It will not work, they do not have such a relationship with the states. These will hand over with giblets for loot ... Our prime minister talked recently. They all leave no desire to throw Raphael.
            You do not know how to sit on two chairs, it is better to stay at all.

            Likely they will try to breed you (Rafael) for something, and the goal of them seems to be to collect a "hodgepodge" of what comes in vain. No wonder they abandoned fishing rods in all directions. hi
            The connection is already there .... lol
            This person can often be seen on the streets of the city of Hyderabad (India). He carries a cart (looks like a makeshift cart) with two coin operated coin-operated telephones. He bought them from a local telephone company at a price of 170 cu for each, and now every day, these, literally, “mobile phones” bring him half their value. Well, everyone earns as much as he can :)
        2. passerby
          passerby April 21 2018 17: 17
          +6
          Rather, it’s not a direct refusal to transfer technologies, but the installation of not the most modern equipment on the plane, hiding behind the fact that there is no more modern one. I think this explains the words of the Indians about "not meeting the standards of the fifth generation." Apparently they were offered to equip the aircraft with equipment that did not differ much from what their Su-30s cost.
          1. Shahno
            Shahno April 21 2018 17: 23
            +2
            Well, if so then it is strange. As if they didn’t know who the competitor would be ....
            1. passerby
              passerby April 21 2018 17: 31
              +8
              Apparently they believe that premature disclosure of information about the real characteristics of T-50 equipment will do more harm than you can get the benefits from India's partial financing of the T-50 creation program. Maybe it’s right, there are no firm contracts for the supply of T-50 to India, and it’s probably not worthwhile to disclose the real characteristics of the T-50 in exchange for partial financing of R&D by India for the new aircraft without guarantees that the Indians will purchase them in commodity quantities.
            2. XXXIII
              XXXIII April 21 2018 19: 25
              0
              Quote: Shahno
              Well, if so then it is strange. As if they didn’t know who the competitor would be ....

              In this case, not just a competitor, but a strategic competitor who can use other people's technologies and money is not the point here. Rafael specialists will surely be able to deal with equipment or technologies of other countries, work experience and sufficient knowledge. In general, strategic competitors, this is a completely different level and patents will not save here. Who needs a miserable fine or a ban on production when the technology is already known to everyone .. yes
          2. Hire
            Hire April 21 2018 17: 53
            +8
            Quote: bystander
            and installation on an airplane of not the most modern equipment,

            It is doubtful. Avionics Su-30 can not cope with the capabilities of the T-50.
            1. XXXIII
              XXXIII April 21 2018 19: 26
              +1
              Quote: Hire
              Quote: bystander
              and installation on an airplane of not the most modern equipment,

              It is doubtful. Avionics Su-30 can not cope with the capabilities of the T-50.

              So that's why they complain that it's not that .... lol
      5. RASKAT
        RASKAT April 21 2018 17: 35
        +9
        Most likely we sent Indians to where further. Because they probably requested the maximum configuration, and even with localization in India and the transfer of technology and documentation, but we did not agree to this.
        And in general, you need to move away from the practice of selling the latest designs until you have saturated your troops.
        1. Hire
          Hire April 21 2018 17: 54
          +10
          Quote: RASKAT
          And in general, you need to move away from the practice of selling the latest designs until you have saturated your troops.

          Not yet developed the next generation.
      6. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 21 2018 19: 33
        +2
        On the Su-35, it is useless to smear the coating. Like the F-15, this aircraft is not successful from the point of view of stealth because of the form. Even if you put the keels at an angle, as they did in the Silent-Eagle, then
        the effect is small.
        1. Muvka
          Muvka April 21 2018 20: 25
          +4
          Quote: voyaka uh
          On the Su-35, it is useless to smear the coating. Like the F-15, this aircraft is not successful from the point of view of stealth because of the form. Even if you put the keels at an angle, as they did in the Silent-Eagle, then
          the effect is small.

          There are no invisible aircraft. But visibility can be very seriously reduced. For Hindus, time is now very important. The Chinese are already mastering their 5th generation, and the FGFA have not even really begun to develop. But if you make a serious modernization of 35, then you get about the same thing, or maybe even better than the Chinese + low cost + development time is minimal. Yes, and there was news.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 06
            +1
            The Chinese, like the Su-57, the form of the glider was originally designed as a stealth.
            But the Su-35 does not. It is impossible to seriously reduce EPR in 4th generation aircraft.
            At least keels, for starters, must be placed at angles (not vertically). And much more.
            1. Mih1974
              Mih1974 April 22 2018 18: 48
              0
              Yes, you lifted up your foolishness about "invisibility". One of your "invisible" penguins already encountered an "ostrich" in the sky that immediately into a duck, so don’t ring here. Sane people have long known that ONE plane in the current modern war does not solve anything negative , only a complex of ground-based radars, early warning radars, space reconnaissance electronic warfare systems give an advantage. No matter how some boast of their invisibility, even they will not dare to guarantee a “breakthrough in the forehead” of the defense in advance described by me above !! Just for the reason that even the complete adherents of the "stealth" recognize that all stealth is ONLY with zero heading on the radar, and in the case of remote radars, and even more so if it is AWAC, then you can immediately forget about "invisibility". Also, all the vaunted "invisibility" of the dog under the tail as soon as the "stealth" turned on its radar negative , all - now he himself "glows" like a spotlight in the desert.
              A perfect illustration is the first desert storm, when the Americans didn’t defeat “by dumping corpses”, but just on the Separated Intelligence System, set targets, using electronic warfare and calculations delivered a simultaneous blow to all the key air defense points, after which they received complete dominance in the air. The same thing will happen against the "stealth", by the way I can’t understand what is the point of this undershot which sees good air defense, especially if your opponent is armed with nuclear weapons? The war between India and Pakistan is impossible if both countries do not want to disappear as countries. Even 100 warheads on each side will inflict prohibitive damage on the other’s population, which makes such a war not even a Pirova, but pure suicide. The same can be said about the United States and Russia, well, the Americans have “invisible” planes, “WHAT?” tongue laughing Will they help them strongly against our Strategic Rocket Forces?
      7. Totah155
        Totah155 April 21 2018 19: 48
        +3
        Quote: Muvka
        , with stealth coating

        Stealth coating does not particularly help if the design of the aircraft was not originally designed as a stealth.
        Physics, my friend
      8. The comment was deleted.
    2. NIKNN
      NIKNN April 21 2018 15: 41
      +22
      Quote: Livonetc
      Let them then buy ready-made Russian vehicles.

      Do you really believe that India is really able to master its own (well, together with us) development in industrial production while maintaining the given parameters. It is still necessary technology how much to master ...
      1. 210ox
        210ox April 21 2018 15: 45
        +20
        Well, what to answer these exclusive gouging!? Baba with a cart ... Of course, we will lose money from the Indians at first. Well, and at the second, they will have to "uncover the bag" ..
        Quote: NIKNN
        Quote: Livonetc
        Let them then buy ready-made Russian vehicles.

        Do you really believe that India is really able to master its own (well, together with us) development in industrial production while maintaining the given parameters. It is still necessary technology how much to master ...
        1. Vitaly Anisimov
          Vitaly Anisimov April 21 2018 15: 47
          +8
          Maybe all for the better ... We will get more! And these cars will be very useful to us soon!
        2. Orionvit
          Orionvit April 21 2018 16: 46
          +4
          Quote: 210ox
          Of course we lose the money from the Indians at first

          The avaricious pays twice, it seems the Indians forgot this simple truth. They don’t want to now, then they will pay more on Russian conditions.
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 21 2018 19: 39
            +2
            The truth applies to Russia: "a dog in the manger." Keep technological secrets in their hands until they finally become obsolete and become useless to anyone.
            With India, Russia had a chance to establish large-scale production of the 5th generation for the air forces of the two countries. India has money, and they have learned how to make electronics. Russia knows how to make a glider and engines, but funding is at zero.
            1. NIKNN
              NIKNN April 21 2018 20: 23
              +7
              There is only one technology for manufacturing a glider, but for the proposed price, the technology for the production of metals and components, technological equipment request a measured number of enterprises (I hope you understand that the aircraft creates more than one assembly shop), as it is not profitable for Russia. And I don’t remember when Israel was striving to deliver technology ... like a ready-made one is trying ... request
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 14
                +2
                Indians did not ask for metals and components. All kinds of turbine blades would be made in Russia, as now. The stake for Russia here (was, alas) is very high: either mass production of the 5th generation together with India, or a unit only for itself.
                I admit that the Su-57 will succeed, but I absolutely do not believe that there will be many of them.
                1. Golovan Jack
                  Golovan Jack April 21 2018 22: 28
                  0
                  Quote: voyaka uh
                  Indians did not ask for metals and components. All kinds of turbine blades would be made in Russia, as now

                  A warrior, in order to say such a thing, you have to be ... well, just a mega-insider.
                  Accordingly, the question is: where did the firewood come from? That is, information, naturally.
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh April 21 2018 23: 13
                    +4
                    There is no insider information. The Hindus asked for assembly at home, not for the production of all parts. In the form of a blade there is nothing secret, the secret is in the technology of manufacturing the alloy. And so far the Indians did not climb. And they could produce (and much more) avionics-radar-software even better than in Russia. The problem (and this can be seen from the comments) is that the Russians, by Soviet inertia, continue to feel like "older brothers", educating younger Indians. And this is no longer the case.
                    The Chinese are already frankly twisting their hands to the Russians, forcing them to sell what they need. And at their prices (Su-35, S-400). And without any cooperation.
                    And the Indians still want to be friends on an equal footing. But the Russians are bullying their nose and trying to "inhale" the products to the "Gypsies." It’s clear that in the end the deals are broken.
                    1. Golovan Jack
                      Golovan Jack April 21 2018 23: 25
                      +8
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      And the Indians still want to be friends on equal terms

                      All. From now on, your thoughts are uninteresting to me, sorry.
                      I repeat, probably - I have little (um) experience working with "Indian comrades" precisely in the field of software development. Where are they, like, almost ahead of the rest.
                      The impression is cephalopods (and arms ... cunning) inverted poets.
                      Pros come across, but drown in the total (very) gray mass.
                      A "friend" ... well, it's you for the kindergarten leave yes
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh April 21 2018 23: 58
                        +3
                        So I worked with them. It’s not easy, but if you keep on an equal footing and do not try to cheat, you can sell and collaborate with them. When they tried to fool me, I pretended not to notice, pretended that they simply “made mistakes” and ceased to deceive. To be friends in business is to maintain friendly relations, and not pour out a soul over a glass.
                    2. XXXIII
                      XXXIII April 21 2018 23: 34
                      +3
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      The Chinese are already frankly twisting their hands to the Russians, forcing them to sell what they need. And at their prices (Su-35, S-400). And without any cooperation.
                      What are you saying and what are their prices for our weapons?
                      China was the first to buy the S-400, it probably came out cheaper, invested in a Russian startup, received a discount .... laughing
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      And the Indians still want to be friends on an equal footing. But Russians they turn up their nose and try to “inhale” the products to “gypsies”. It’s clear that in the end the deals are broken.
                      If they will not be friends then what? The arms market doesn’t give a damn about friendship, whether you buy or not, money and goods are friends of the military market .... yes
                      And whoever lifts his nose there, has less to grimace and must behave constructively when solving such issues, and not be more impudent than others .... hi
                      1. voyaka uh
                        voyaka uh April 22 2018 00: 01
                        +1
                        Well, you see, your arguments confirm what I wrote: "the elder brother will be angry." smile Therefore, you fly past billions in righteous anger ...
                    3. Solomon Kane
                      Solomon Kane April 22 2018 00: 20
                      +6
                      What kind of people are you Jews?
                      Indulge in polemics indiscriminately .... with conviction ....
                      It’s all the same if we, Russians, start to speculate in whose “horse stables” are cooler in Maklaren or Ferrari ....
                      You yourself fly on other people's "wings", and La! And condemn the aircraft of Russia .... This is my friend, Moveton ......
                      1. Mih1974
                        Mih1974 April 22 2018 18: 57
                        +1
                        So what do you want from these poets (yzrailtians) it was they who coined the term "huttspa" - that there is an outrageous, unreasonable arrogance "and as soon as" by concepts "they are asked to answer for the bazaar and put on the pen, squeals start at once - oh the genocide of the "chosen by God." am This is a classic courtyard pozz which the "elders" sent or he himself was the first to break the "check for weak" beginner. Here, mark my word, as soon as the United States crumbles and pupates, Israel as a country will be crushed by the local lads, so to speak, “they will answer for the bazaar”.
                2. Mih1974
                  Mih1974 April 22 2018 18: 51
                  +1
                  but I don’t believe at all that a lot of them will be released
                  I really didn’t know that the Judean faith should include the Su-57. tongue laughing laughing
            2. SAG
              SAG April 22 2018 04: 00
              0
              You think like a trader, we all went through this in the 90s. You have forgotten the story, comrade from Israel, how entire nations destroyed and took away by force everything that they had so bargained for in their life, because they could not fight back (including technology)
      2. LSA57
        LSA57 April 21 2018 17: 45
        +5
        Quote: NIKNN
        It is still necessary technology how much to master ...

        Well, they know how. over there an iron pillar has stood for centuries and does not rust. Yes, through the jungle there is a drain of technological miracles ....
        1. NIKNN
          NIKNN April 21 2018 18: 04
          +2
          Quote: LSA57
          Quote: NIKNN
          It is still necessary technology how much to master ...

          Well, they know how. over there an iron pillar has stood for centuries and does not rust. Yes, through the jungle there is a drain of technological miracles ....

          So yes ... They have their own technologies in bulk ... It's like they, well, in the sense of their gods, the atomic warfare erased the first population of the earth ...
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 21 2018 20: 07
            +2
            India seems to have been the first "technological superpower" on this planet in the second millennium BC. But self-destructed in civil wars. Some of their prodigy waffles and other technologies have gone to China. China remained at a high level throughout the first millennium AD and also self-destructed due to internal strife.
            Egypt transferred its know-how to Rome and Greece. Well, the Sumerians from the Caucasus helped with metallurgy. Rome pushed forward Europe. Europe has leaned forward since the 2nd millennium. And she passed the baton to America.
        2. Mih1974
          Mih1974 April 22 2018 19: 05
          0
          I would like to laugh with you, but this is sad. Obviously Indians are descendants of a highly developed civilization, it is not for nothing that they just have unique ones, nuggets in mathematics, this is something genetic. The same artifacts and strange myths are very well now "stretched to the globe" of modern technology. But it’s just like with Chinese porcelain - it was NOT a technology, alas it was a certain field of raw materials that could not be repeated anywhere else and only Lomonosov and some kind of pops in Europe at the same time created the Technology, which already depended not on one field but from Raw materials in general. good
          The same thing with the "iron stainless column" - that is, it is, but no one can repeat it. Whereas in Russia, for example, Bulat was and has been revived again, it seems to be just metallurgy, but only those who revived it in mysticism hit in spite of all their degrees.
          So, as modern Italians are too brazen to call themselves descendants of Rome, so are Indians - descendants of their unknown ancestors.
    3. Fedor egoist
      Fedor egoist April 21 2018 15: 49
      +10
      The gypsies realized that they did not even pull the screwdriver assembly :))
      Well, political motives, of course. They butt off with Pakistan / China, they choose an ally. In vain, very vainly contact the States ...
    4. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi April 21 2018 15: 57
      +4
      Quote: Livonetc
      Let them then buy ready-made Russian vehicles.

      Reasonable.
    5. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU April 21 2018 16: 00
      +11
      Quote: Livonetc
      Let them then buy ready-made Russian vehicles.


      Yes nafig generally sell them Su-57? It will be purely ours, as for Americans F-22. Maximum Su-30 "Super Dry", but for insulting our Su-57, and the military-industrial complex as a whole, we will sell the Su-35 to Pakistan laughing
      1. alexmach
        alexmach April 21 2018 16: 48
        +3
        1. Does Pakistan need it? They seem to have their own (half Chinese) planes releasing nothing like that
        2. What for to sell? Well, as it were, the larger the production (in pieces), the cheaper each of these pieces.
    6. ancestors from Don
      ancestors from Don April 21 2018 16: 07
      +16
      Quote: Livonetc
      Let them then buy ready-made Russian vehicles.

      Never consider the Indians as serious partners in military cooperation, they simply buy haphazardly everything that they give in addition to the production technology, and now, having not received secret documentation on the SU-57, they have rolled away with a left bank, don’t go to the fortuneteller to beg for US -35, bully
      1. Andy
        Andy April 21 2018 16: 23
        +6
        five years ago they merged this documentation with amers. the plane doesn’t dance, and this is not standard.
        1. Orionvit
          Orionvit April 21 2018 16: 47
          +4
          Quote: Andy
          the plane doesn’t dance, and this is not standard.

          And does not sing. laughing
    7. Azazelo
      Azazelo April 21 2018 17: 08
      +2
      3 times more expensive.
    8. Bar1
      Bar1 April 21 2018 17: 53
      +1
      something is wrong with the product30 engines, they promised to deliver back to 16g, but they forgot everything about it as if. As for our electronics, what can we say if Russia still cannot make its own computer? Moreover, the authorities are not at all bothered by the fact that our military equipment is crammed with imports. Is this why India’s contentment?
    9. URAL72
      URAL72 April 21 2018 19: 55
      +4
      Where is our site heading? request Sore subject, and away we go! My friends, did you see the source indicated at the beginning of the article? He does not work for the KLA. And not to India ... A week ago, India officially confirmed that work is continuing. In Indian. Slowly ... Reading - think, 21st century, info technology. We learn the truth after the fact ...
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher April 21 2018 20: 27
        +3
        Quote: URAL72
        A week ago, India officially confirmed that work is ongoing.

        What job? For 11 years, nothing has been done on the topic of FGFA, and will not be. This is a dead topic.
    10. Ratmir_Ryazan
      Ratmir_Ryazan April 22 2018 00: 54
      +1
      They do not want to buy Russian, they are thinking of buying the F-22 or F-35 from the USA ... They think that the Americans are better, or the Americans have given anyone who needs it ...
    11. zenion
      zenion April 22 2018 13: 05
      +2
      For some reason, this does not resemble the effectiveness of the aircraft, but to which group it was assigned. This is already reminiscent of mouse fuss.
    12. yehat
      yehat April 22 2018 13: 50
      0
      I don’t understand why the stealth of India. They would have to equip defense forces - there are not small problems. All they need is sufficiently effective platforms for modern weapons and air defense objectives. And the 5th generation is not needed at all.
      enough of the 4th, upgraded to a number of specific advantages - like a superhornet or su-35.
      and save the money saved on training personnel for the Air Force and the aviation industry.
    13. vadim dok
      vadim dok April 22 2018 14: 29
      0
      This is unlikely! Most likely, they will buy the F-35 or F-22, if, of course, they sell!
    14. mss001
      mss001 April 22 2018 18: 02
      0
      Apparently, the Indians stole from us all the technologies they needed for the independent production of the apparatus and broke the contract. He doesn’t need them anymore. Plus, they will now sell our secrets FOR EXPENSELY to the Americans and Chinese. So again the Russians remained in the fools.
  2. NIKNN
    NIKNN April 21 2018 15: 38
    +3
    With these it is clear. The money allocated for the cut was mastered, until it was no longer possible to shake ... request
  3. Yaro Polk
    Yaro Polk April 21 2018 15: 40
    +11
    Yes, and to hell with them, dance from here, let Rafali buy, smelling mothballs stop
  4. Herculesic
    Herculesic April 21 2018 15: 42
    +10
    Let penguins buy, and require technology transfer from the states wassat ! And the Yankees will throw out a double price for each aircraft, and they will show an ordinary cookie about technology! !!! fool
    1. alexmach
      alexmach April 21 2018 16: 52
      +3
      Well, actually, the Americans made them a good offer with the transfer of the assembly line of the F-16 to India.
      1. Albert1988
        Albert1988 April 21 2018 18: 56
        +3
        Quote: alexmach
        Well, actually, the Americans made them a good offer with the transfer of the assembly line of the F-16 to India.

        Yeah, and in the colors they painted that applying the image of Shiva to the fuselage instantly raises the characteristics of a 4th generation light fighter to the characteristics of a 5th generation heavy fighter)))) And they danced well at the same time)))
        1. Hole puncher
          Hole puncher April 21 2018 20: 24
          +2
          Quote: Albert1988
          Yeah, and in the colors they painted that applying the image of Shiva to the fuselage instantly raises the characteristics of a 4th generation light fighter to the characteristics of a 5th generation heavy fighter)))) And they danced well at the same time)))

          You do not believe that LM offered to transfer the full production of F16 to India and carry out maintenance for all consumers thereof?
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 April 21 2018 20: 28
            +3
            Quote: Puncher
            You do not believe that LM offered to transfer the full production of F16 to India and carry out maintenance for all consumers thereof?

            You caught the essence of my koment? Hindus need technology localization 5th generationand now please explain to me what does the F-16 have to do with the fifth generation? Hmm?
            1. alexmach
              alexmach April 21 2018 23: 02
              0
              Firstly, the latest versions of it are rather 4+.
              Secondly, they generally need technology and their own production. If it does not work out with 5 generations, what is the fourth not an option? Moreover, it is not just about manufacturing in India for India, but actually for the whole world ... one of the most popular and best-selling aircraft in the world. No matter how mythical the 5th generation, but also sweetie.
  5. sabakina
    sabakina April 21 2018 15: 45
    +6
    Most likely, they liked the Japanese Yankees' offer about the crossover F-22 with F-35 ... laughing
    1. Shahno
      Shahno April 21 2018 16: 03
      +10
      Yes, a funny story .... In a sense, an independent assessment of Su 57 ... They got a platypus in the campaign ... And they thought maybe the penguin is better.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina April 21 2018 16: 07
        +9
        Paul, as we say, "wait and see."
        1. LSA57
          LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 36
          +5
          Quote: sabakina
          Paul, as we say, "wait and see."

          but I’m more like a living person, "we will shakesee " laughing
      2. alexhol
        alexhol April 21 2018 16: 31
        +2
        This is the story that all these superplanes, super tanks and super rockets are fake. What they managed to develop in the 80-90s, it is both "lit." and "winged" and it sells well. And all these armats and helicopters on trailers ....
        1. Dikson
          Dikson April 21 2018 16: 56
          +7
          Shaw, and an inflatable plane? )))
          1. alexhol
            alexhol April 21 2018 18: 03
            0
            I would say pumped up. Money. So even though they are made of metal, it’s still a “soap bubble”.
        2. Albert1988
          Albert1988 April 21 2018 18: 59
          +4
          Quote: alexhol
          This is the story that all these superplanes, super tanks and super rockets are fake. What they managed to develop in the 80-90s, it is both "lit." and "winged" and it sells well. And all these armats and helicopters on trailers ....

          Oh yes, where have you been before, such an "Xpert", and then the people hung their ears - you could quickly open your eyes to everything)))))
          Only advice to you - when you will be telling the "truth" about Armats and other PAK FAs - God forbid, don’t stumble upon those who really work on these projects, otherwise they may burst from your revelation with laughter, but we need personnel!
          1. alexhol
            alexhol April 21 2018 19: 14
            +2
            Cadres really decide everything. But I am afraid of them in Russia, judging by the migration statistics, there are practically no left. It is sad. Laughter will burst rather those who have seen cartoons about every secret superweapon there
            1. Albert1988
              Albert1988 April 21 2018 19: 51
              +3
              Yes, yes, yes, "practically no more", and the T-50 riveted three and a half grandfathers and one undergraduate student on his knee))))
              Naturally, there are problems, but to listen to you - so at least die with laughter, but like Belarus - a good healthy country, it doesn’t suffer from diseases, where do such "comedians" come from?
      3. Okolotochny
        Okolotochny April 21 2018 16: 31
        +9
        Who is independent from? Okay, USA and China. These can rate, because they have technology. Hindus on the basis of which give an "independent assessment"? Bollywood Pictures?
        1. Shahno
          Shahno April 21 2018 16: 36
          +4
          Well, you dig yourself. There are enough specialists in materials and electronics, and in aircraft systems ... Only they can do nothing on their own ... And that's enough.
          1. Albert1988
            Albert1988 April 21 2018 19: 00
            +5
            Quote: Shahno
            Only they can do nothing themselves

            And these specialists can give an independent assessment ... except for themselves, perhaps)))
          2. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny April 21 2018 23: 13
            +7
            So what kind of specialists are they, if they can’t do anything? So, then I'm generally a pro in the design of aviation and the Navy. Hindus can’t do a second generation tank. Although they were transferred and technology and production lines. You said stupidity and try to look smart. The purpose of your pearls is clear - in Russia everything is guano. Although Russia is much more advanced than Israel. Take the product range and compare. Just don’t cry.
            1. Okolotochny
              Okolotochny April 21 2018 23: 55
              +7
              I add - these statements of the Indians are akin to if the Israelis took to evaluate, for example, Russian icebreakers.
      4. LSA57
        LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 37
        +1
        Quote: Shahno
        And they thought maybe the penguin is better.

        hint that entih in the Balkans was called penguins? laughing
    2. LSA57
      LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 35
      +2
      Quote: sabakina
      Most likely, they liked the Japanese Yankees' proposal for a cross between F-22 and F-35.

      they will quickly master the taming of a mixture of a bulldog with a rhino. at ballet shoes laughing
      Vyacheslav, Physical Education hi
  6. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter April 21 2018 15: 47
    +9
    Indian traders ... Why don't I like gypsies? Because they don’t know how to do anything? But bargaining ... wassat
    1. LSA57
      LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 38
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      But are being traded ..

      rather than bargain, steal wassat
  7. _Ugene_
    _Ugene_ April 21 2018 15: 47
    +11
    in any case, this is not good, there is no money for mass production of the Su-57, now, it seems, there will be no
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU April 21 2018 16: 04
      +9
      Quote: _Ugene_
      in any case, this is not good, there is no money for mass production of the Su-57, now, it seems, there will be no

      The United States for itself in its fat years, the end of 90-x and the beginning of zero, could only rivet 180 PC F-22. They have a population of 320 lyams. And we don’t have USSR for a long time, and 146 million, therefore, if we have at least 48-60 Su-57, and the rest Su-35 (72 pieces), Su-30 (120 pieces), MiG-35 ( 36 pcs) and Su-34 (120 pcs) and in combination with powerful air defense, this is a good option for Russia. hi
      1. the most important
        the most important April 21 2018 16: 22
        +5
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        if we have at least 48-60 units Su-57, and the rest Su-35 (72 pieces), Su-30 (120 pieces), MiG-35 (36 pieces) and Su-34 (120 pieces) and combined with a powerful air defense, this is a good option for Russia.

        Very low numbers for Russia.
        1. Nevsky_ZU
          Nevsky_ZU April 21 2018 16: 31
          +3
          Quote: the most important
          Quote: Nevsky_ZU
          if we have at least 48-60 units Su-57, and the rest Su-35 (72 pieces), Su-30 (120 pieces), MiG-35 (36 pieces) and Su-34 (120 pieces) and combined with a powerful air defense, this is a good option for Russia.

          Very low numbers for Russia.

          Duc, military secret) stop
      2. _Ugene_
        _Ugene_ April 21 2018 16: 36
        +1
        judging the required number of aircraft is necessary, first of all, based on the size of the country, and the fact that almost all of our aircraft of the previous generation will not be buzzing at all, this is called technological superiority, and here also quantitative, too, we have one hope to the nuclear triad, it’s vitally important to keep up with the delivery vehicles, otherwise the khan
        1. Nevsky_ZU
          Nevsky_ZU April 21 2018 16: 45
          +1
          Quote: _Ugene_
          it is vital to keep up with the delivery means, otherwise Khan

          So Putin pays great attention to this, because no one wants to repeat 1941 for a year.
      3. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 22
        0
        "and in combination with powerful air defense, this is a good option for Russia" ////

        and in combination with powerful ICBMs, you wanted to say that this is a good option for Russia.
        You can’t argue ... but without this a trump card a couple of hundred modern aircraft for Russia will not be enough.
    2. Albert1988
      Albert1988 April 21 2018 19: 03
      +2
      So you are convinced that the money for the Su-57 came only from India? Well, consider further ... Only for India, an almost new plane with a two-seat cockpit was to be made. and God knows what requirements we don’t know about, and here they provided some of the funding for the development of this aircraft ...
      And so yes - there is no money, only production and tests are coming from something, American Khryapas were also not produced in hundreds somehow.
  8. Sands Careers General
    Sands Careers General April 21 2018 15: 48
    +10
    Well, good riddance. Recently, dancing chernopopiks really got their complaints, they don’t like it, and that’s it.

    Let them do it from scratch, or buy a finished product, but for other money.
  9. UVB
    UVB April 21 2018 15: 48
    +4
    But I wonder if the Indians themselves ever created something of a world level? I mean military equipment in any field.
    1. _Ugene_
      _Ugene_ April 21 2018 15: 54
      +5
      moreover, this, they pay if they are satisfied with the goods and do not pay if they are not satisfied, everything is simple
    2. LSA57
      LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 41
      +2
      Quote: UVB
      But I wonder if the Indians themselves ever created something of a world level?

      Mowgli did not. climbed wherever asked. all living creatures in the jungle laughing
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 25
      0
      Not yet, but they have booming economic growth. A lot of live money. And they are learning.
      In software and electronics, they have definitely advanced.
      And don't forget, the Indians are 1,4 billion. They order not units of equipment, but hundreds at once.
      And they pay in cash, not palm oil.
  10. Dezinto
    Dezinto April 21 2018 15: 48
    +22
    AND! Here it is. Well gentlemen dofiga engineering developed Indians .... excuse me for offering. All clear.....

    We are building some kind of airplanes here. - and they are WOBS! as they can!

    1. Sands Careers General
      Sands Careers General April 21 2018 15: 50
      +16
      Fighting cocks on the Indian-Pakistani border))
    2. NN52
      NN52 April 21 2018 15: 52
      +5
      Is it that they give so much honor? Foot instead of a hand? : -o
      1. Dezinto
        Dezinto April 21 2018 15: 56
        +12
        Is it that they give so much honor? Foot instead of a hand?




        We cannot understand with our fifth generation aircraft! we don’t yet know the secret meaning ... "hoba"
        The Hindus have already said ... guano is all your iron. A country that does not know the differentiation in terms of the heel lifted into the sky has no future.
        1. Bolo
          Bolo April 21 2018 18: 10
          +2
          Patsaki, why without muzzles?
      2. LSA57
        LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 43
        +2
        Quote: NN52
        Is it that they give so much honor? Foot instead of a hand?

        and then pull the trigger with what? belay
        1. NN52
          NN52 April 21 2018 18: 38
          +1
          Sergei
          laughing
          And I can’t say what trigger is pulled ... otherwise moderators will not appreciate it ///
    3. sergey32
      sergey32 April 21 2018 16: 00
      +3
      Wow, dancers. Before the injury, I was involved in MMA, so I would have grabbed it by the leg, turned it in my knee, extended it and knead it on the ground. Already reduces teeth from nostalgia.
      1. The comment was deleted.
    4. LSA57
      LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 46
      +1
      Quote: DEZINTO
      We are building some kind of airplanes here. - and they are WOBS! as they can!

      but I wonder if the cow will fit between them? repeat
      1. The comment was deleted.
  11. wicked pinnochio
    wicked pinnochio April 21 2018 15: 49
    +2
    apparently the brahmanas didn’t pull; they can only apparently dance as a disco dancer; is it interesting that Mithun Chakraborti is alive?
    1. Evgeny Goncharov
      Evgeny Goncharov April 22 2018 01: 33
      0
      good performance of Sukhoi Design Bureau
  12. NEXUS
    NEXUS April 21 2018 15: 51
    +9
    At the same time, the Indian military declares that they may later revise their plans for the FGFA program or will purchase serial models of the Su-57 if the characteristics of its final version meet the requirements of the Indian Ministry of Defense.

    And who in the next 10 years will sell the SU-57 for export? Even if (possibly) an export version appears in about 10 years, it will be truncated with TTX and the Indians will again begin to cry that this is not what they want.
    In the meantime, I think there will be a purchase of SU-35, again in the export version.
    1. Yura
      Yura April 21 2018 16: 25
      +4
      They had the opportunity to keep up with at least China, and now they have successfully cheated on her. After two hundred years of colonial dependence on the British, for some reason they decided that they had become one.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 32
        +1
        And Russia has taken such an opportunity. Both countries need to cry.
        1. Okolotochny
          Okolotochny April 21 2018 23: 11
          +4
          Why did Russia poheril? Do you have any details on this transaction? Did you emigrate on the instructions of the KGB? You a priori cannot know all the nuances of the transaction, but make an expert conclusion.
        2. Yura
          Yura April 21 2018 23: 35
          +1
          That's when Russia pocher condescension to you, you will sob, sprinkle ash on your head, tear your hair out if you have time for all this. You have enough mind to understand what I mean?
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 22 2018 00: 05
            +1
            "You have enough mind to understand what I mean?" "////

            Where can we ... to such heights laughing
            1. Yura
              Yura April 22 2018 00: 24
              +1
              Quote: voyaka uh
              To where

              It’s a pity that they didn’t try to answer, although there were several options, but all of them were wrong, except for mine. laughing tongue
      2. Evgeny Goncharov
        Evgeny Goncharov April 22 2018 01: 34
        +1
        not lag behind China with a program for 11 years on which nothing has been done? Fantazer you of course
        1. Yura
          Yura April 22 2018 03: 14
          +2
          Quote: Evgeny Goncharov
          for 11 years on which nothing has been done?

          Before making such statements, it did not bother you to familiarize yourself with the question. Before signing the first contract under which India paid us 295 billion greens, which also implies the first stage of the project (the meaning of which was to create an advance project of the future FGFA, that is, an export option. This was done and agreed upon), the fighter itself already had by this time:
          As part of the process of preparing a contract between the United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) and HAL Corporation for joint development of a fifth-generation fighter in Zhukovsky near Moscow, Ramenskoye, a new Russian promising front-line aviation complex (PAK FA) was shown to representatives of the Ministry of Defense and the Indian Air Force, as well as HAL Indian Aircraft Corporation. It is assumed that the share of HAL in the joint project will be at least 25 percent. The total project cost is estimated at eight to ten billion dollars. It is assumed that the Indian version of the fighter will subsequently be exported.
          Farther:
          UAC and Indian company Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) entered into a contract for the joint development and production of a fifth-generation fighter. Under the terms of the agreement, the Indian company will create an on-board computer FGFA, a navigation system, information displays in the cockpit and a self-defense system. The remaining work in the joint project will be undertaken by the Russian company Sukhoi.
          the conditions stipulated by the contract were fulfilled, for which they paid and did. And when the turn came, he agreed to agree on a more serious contract (Second stage), already for development and production.
          We agreed so far that the development of the Indian FGFA is carried out 50/50 - 4 billion cut on each side. In general, the program will cost India $ 25 billion (for 127 aircraft). Under the agreement, the Indian company will create an on-board computer FGFA, a navigation system, information displays in the cockpit and a self-defense system. Before abandoning the project, India began to demand the transfer of technology, which was understandably denied to them, and besides, I think that over the 11 years India has not been able to fulfill its obligations under the contract (the production of Su 30 MKI has not yet been mastered, not to mention about the fifth generation) and therefore they decided to leave the project under far-fetched pretexts.
  13. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch April 21 2018 15: 53
    +4
    stealth, the main thing is stealth. Yes, actually, something to bathe, the brahmaputra them in the attic stupid.
    Well, create suvprivimany yourself.
    Rafali in the stern.
  14. Deune
    Deune April 21 2018 15: 55
    +3
    Is it because of the refusal to disclose technology? Well, let them buy f35, and the tankers to it, and programs, and the infrastructure will be changed for penguins.
  15. prapor75m
    prapor75m April 21 2018 15: 55
    +4
    Yes, good riddance to them and good in one place, let f -35 buy, still cry with him
    1. Aaron Zawi
      Aaron Zawi April 21 2018 15: 58
      +4
      Quote: prapor75m
      Yes, good riddance to them and good in one place, let f -35 buy, still cry with him

      By itself.
      1. NN52
        NN52 April 21 2018 16: 04
        +2
        F 35 to buy them? And is it like in a truncated version? Or is it direct to sell as to all allies, as usual?
        1. Shahno
          Shahno April 21 2018 16: 08
          +5
          What Indians underestimate. They decided to see the states to play business. Against all beloved Chinese ...
          1. Okolotochny
            Okolotochny April 21 2018 16: 33
            +4
            Or they didn’t receive a rollback. They have what is not a deal, then with "bonuses."
        2. LSA57
          LSA57 April 21 2018 16: 48
          +4
          Quote: NN52
          F 35 to buy them? And is it like in a truncated version? Or is it direct to sell as to all allies, as usual?

          Yes, it does not matter to them what pilots to ruin. I’m ashamed to say this, but statistics are stubborn things
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 21 2018 16: 05
      +1
      the Chinese will sell them to them
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 21 2018 16: 07
      +4
      Quote: prapor75m
      let f-35 buy, still cry with him

      I don’t think ... it’s expensive, and mattresses understand that our specialists can get to the 35th in this case. I think that the Indians will dance with the French along the Rafals ...
  16. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon April 21 2018 16: 03
    +3
    Hindus were bought by Americans, and for a long time! So no wonder!
  17. viktor.
    viktor. April 21 2018 16: 06
    +2
    Only EFKI 35th need to be purchased wassat
  18. Dezinto
    Dezinto April 21 2018 16: 10
    +7
    I don’t want to offend anyone ......... but the sawing computers and tankers of FIGs understand who tell Russia - that they have bad planes.
    It's .... just .............. I'll go poru ....

    They’re able to do such garbage today, and they are telling us something.

  19. MadCat
    MadCat April 21 2018 16: 11
    +17
    After reading komenty I realized it turns out to be a victory! With another victory for you. wassat
    To lose the largest contract, you need to manage it, see the plane is really not so awesome as the propaganda draws it. request
    1. Dezinto
      Dezinto April 21 2018 16: 17
      +7
      I realized it turns out to be a victory! With another victory for you.

      Thank you we are winning on the sly ..... a lot of hedgehogs got it ... yes, I sent a bear to take some pies ..... normal, ... we are sitting on the sly .... yes, we are losing contracts. You write to our village about missing contracts more often, or you even forget how we bend.
      1. MadCat
        MadCat April 21 2018 16: 21
        +4
        Quote: DEZINTO
        Thank you we are winning on the sly ..... a lot of hedgehogs got it ... yes, I sent a bear to take some pies ..... normal, ... we are sitting on the sly .... yes, we are losing contracts. You write to our village about missing contracts more often, or you even forget how we bend.

        and well done, you made another victory over sanity, with the victory of you. laughing
    2. KaPToC
      KaPToC April 21 2018 17: 01
      +9
      Quote: MadCat
      Lose the largest contract, this must be managed

      The logic of a trader, you didn’t even think that there could be another logic that is not related to the exploitation of man by man.
      1. Normal ok
        Normal ok April 21 2018 17: 28
        0
        Quote: KaPToC
        you didn’t even think that there could be another logic that is not related to the exploitation of man by man

        And how is this related to the topic of the article?
        1. Yura
          Yura April 21 2018 17: 50
          +2
          Quote: MadCat
          After reading komenty I realized it turns out to be a victory! With another victory for you.

          Well, how does this relate to the topic of the article and where in the comments is what is in the quote above.
          Quote: Normal ok
          And how is this related to the topic of the article?
        2. KaPToC
          KaPToC April 21 2018 19: 25
          +1
          Quote: Normal ok
          And how is this related to the topic of the article?

          what up
    3. Albert1988
      Albert1988 April 21 2018 19: 09
      +4
      Og, that's it, you opened our eyes to us, let's go cry and drink the bitter! The entire largest contract went down the drain and other bodies located there, all the money is dumb, the coupons for the Internet are running out, we’ll finish the last meal and just stay on ... Everything ...
      1. MadCat
        MadCat April 21 2018 20: 52
        +1
        Quote: Albert1988
        ! The entire largest contract went down the drain and the other authorities located there, all the money is dumb, the coupons for the Internet are running out, we’ll eat the last one and just stay

        don’t you worry so much, since the government is taking care of you so well, what is the planned inflation for the year? With a victory, you too.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 April 22 2018 23: 32
          +1
          Quote: MadCat
          don’t you worry so much, since the government is taking care of you so well, what is the planned inflation for the year? With a victory, you too.

          Oh, well, you’re directly chopping the truth, cut the uterus, I don’t really know what to do - bitter drink or burst with laughter from you))))
  20. Strashila
    Strashila April 21 2018 16: 15
    +1
    Once again, the lackeys wanted ... let them turn to the Americans ... still have to stay.
  21. Coconut
    Coconut April 21 2018 16: 17
    +2
    Yes, do not care about stealth our MASTERPIECE (Su-57) he and the fighter and attack aircraft and bomber and ... in general, all in one bottle .. and do not care about stealth wassat
    1. Dezinto
      Dezinto April 21 2018 16: 19
      +7
      Are you sitting in the same office, yes?
      Yes, do not care about stealth our MASTERPIECE (Su-57)

      Let me guess. Koment to another article: it was necessary to build hospitals and schools, and not this one that wasn’t flying .... a rashka .... what else do you have there?
      Seen, we know.
    2. Evgeny Goncharov
      Evgeny Goncharov April 22 2018 01: 37
      0
      A checker of them, a checker!
  22. Seaflame
    Seaflame April 21 2018 16: 18
    +8
    In general, the news is never good ... Given the size of our military budget, the economic situation of the country, Indian money would not hurt us at all. Well, let's break through ...
    1. Albert1988
      Albert1988 April 21 2018 19: 11
      0
      Quote: Seaflame
      In general, the news is never good ... Given the size of our military budget, the economic situation of the country, Indian money would not hurt us at all. Well, let's break through ...

      But were they this money and how much were there? The Indians have one credo - to pay three pennies for a diamond, so the question is how much real money we had from them ...
      1. Hole puncher
        Hole puncher April 21 2018 20: 17
        0
        Quote: Albert1988
        But were they this money and how much were there?

        India is a rich country and everything is in order with money. They just burned more than once on Russian contracts, on one Vikramaditye how much money they lost. The T-50 really doesn’t work, the deadlines are constantly being postponed, which indicates frank miscalculations in the development, and the size of the purchases suggests that the Air Force does not need it.
        1. Albert1988
          Albert1988 April 21 2018 20: 26
          +3
          Quote: Puncher
          India is a rich country and everything is in order with money.

          The question is not how much money they have, but the question how much of that same money was transferred from them to us under the contract.

          Quote: Puncher
          They just burned more than once on Russian contracts, on one Vikramaditye how much money they lost.

          Oga - fireclay bricks of dubious origin to reduce the cost of almost shoving us instead of the regular staff - we burned them essentially, then we mounted Chinese-made batteries instead of Russian ones on the submarine - it was a fire))) So we burned a little more, considering. how they "exploit" everything there, keepers of the secret of magic vimanas)))
          Quote: Puncher
          The T-50 really doesn’t work, the deadlines are constantly being postponed, which indicates frank miscalculations in the development, and the size of the purchases suggests that the Air Force does not need it.

          And where do you experts come from! You see the deadlines, you see, it means nothing))) Well, yes, well, yes, after the 90s, to master the fifth-generation machine project in 15 years - this is just the time to spit, right? And I am amazed at your awareness - it turns out that our Air Force is already purchasing the Su-57! I somehow thought that while the test series was going on. which the Air Force should then transfer for trial operation ... But it turns out to be like that - already purchases are in the Air Force ...
  23. atesterev
    atesterev April 21 2018 16: 26
    +4
    How much did they do their Arjun for 30 years? How old is Teyas 20 years old? But this airplane is not even 4 generations ...
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. HMR333
    HMR333 April 21 2018 16: 42
    +1
    what are you diluting mud here? they just shake the money from them, they figured it out and decided to buy the serial su 57 and not turn around with their development and production at home! and they’re not boring. They have a bargaining style. They can’t be blamed for this because they want to, like everyone, cheaper and can!
    1. Seaflame
      Seaflame April 22 2018 12: 50
      +1
      Most likely it was not without persuasion and the influence of our American "partners." But the Americans will leave wonderful businessmen and Indians without pants. It's a shame that among the losers, not only Indians but also we ...
  26. Graz
    Graz April 21 2018 16: 46
    +3
    Su57 should be only for internal use, like the armata and the latest weapons, for export, no recent versions
  27. K-50
    K-50 April 21 2018 16: 52
    +3
    As part of the first phase of the program, worth $ 295 million, the design of the Indian fighter was developed, but then the FGFA project did not advance due to the many disagreements that arose between the parties.

    What disagreements could there be at all? belay request
    You might think that the Indians have tremendous experience in creating aircraft !!! laughing
    Therefore, there is an opinion of Russia, and the other is not correct. All the same, Russia has this experience, both in the creation of mass-produced machines, and in experimental ones, at least with what to eat, a lot in general.
    The Indians wouldn’t have to build figurines by flaring, but heed, but apparently ambition defeated common sense, and yet they could learn a lot from us.
    Well, okay, the fate of the projects will put everything in its place. yes
  28. The comment was deleted.
  29. lopvlad
    lopvlad April 21 2018 16: 59
    +6
    The Indian Air Force believes that the Russian Su-57 does not meet the stated requirements for secrecy. In addition, the Indian side believes that the combat avionics, radars and sensors of the Russian development do not meet the standards of the fifth generation.


    cunning Indians wanted the Russian side to share the SU-57 technologies and we refused them. That's the exit from the program.
    For tricks, there is an f-35 with one engine that is even inferior in maneuverability to the SU-35.
    1. G A_2
      G A_2 April 21 2018 18: 48
      +3
      Quote: lopvlad
      The Indian Air Force believes that the Russian Su-57 does not meet the stated requirements for secrecy. In addition, the Indian side believes that the combat avionics, radars and sensors of the Russian development do not meet the standards of the fifth generation.


      cunning Indians wanted the Russian side to share the SU-57 technologies and we refused them. That's the exit from the program.
      For tricks, there is an f-35 with one engine that is even inferior in maneuverability to the SU-35.

      Enough to rush already with this super-maneuverability. It is needed only for dogfight on guns and at exhibitions. Super-maneuverable near-range missiles that can hit a fighter that has entered the rear hemisphere. They are already there.
      1. lopvlad
        lopvlad April 21 2018 21: 28
        +2
        Quote: G A_2
        Enough to rush already with this super-maneuverability.


        just super-maneuverability saves life, but stealth is a marketing move for idiots. To understand stealth planes, the radars of Soviet S-300 systems were also accurately seen.

        Quote: G A_2
        Super-maneuverable near-range missiles that can hit a fighter that has entered the rear hemisphere. They are already there.


        that is why Russian designers increase the maneuverability of our aircraft.
  30. askme
    askme April 21 2018 17: 03
    +7
    This is very good news, because it means the complete end of the time when our "partners" in the military-technical cooperation considered us as "poor Russians" from whom we can snatch advanced military developments for nothing. Now they realized that they were not going to give them advanced technologies for glass beads. And left. This is their choice) The Yankees will definitely not be given any modern technology to them. Indians are stupid in military development and will come to Russia again. And then we’ll take the full price from them) Hare Krishna!)))
    1. Vita vko
      Vita vko April 21 2018 17: 36
      0
      Quote: askme
      And then we’ll take the full price from them) Hare Krishna!

      Over time, any technology becomes obsolete and cheaper. India just needs the FGFA project as a pomegranate monkey. In addition, probably the United States following the role played in this matter. In fact, the FGFA project had to be implemented with China for a long time. In this case, the Su-57 would have been mass-produced for a long time.
  31. flicker
    flicker April 21 2018 17: 14
    +2
    Capricious as children, you might think they have a great choice.
  32. Indifferent
    Indifferent April 21 2018 17: 25
    +2
    Smart Indians also want to eat fish and not sit on the big and thick root. And this does not happen. To get Raptor right away, you need to invest as much gold as it weighs. Modern technology is extremely expensive. And a radio-controlled ax on one chip, and even covered with radio-reflective enamel for a penny will not work. And even more so the plane. Maybe that's why we are more focused on air defense. There is simply not enough money for aviation. And the Indians would send the cunning ass to hell. Let the Raptors buy. Quickly without pants left. Although they already go without pants. I forgot how their national hope is called. It seems a sari.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. Div Divich
    Div Divich April 21 2018 17: 32
    +3
    Russia has been losing a lot lately.

    Even with India, contracts were signed for ships, and so in a couple of years India will throw Russia on that project, and Ukraine will receive orders for power plants for ships for several decades with Russian money.

    It turns out that Russia draws up contracts so that other countries profit from it. There is no Russian development strategy, there is no Russian competition strategy, one-day money overshadows the mind.
  35. Topol M
    Topol M April 21 2018 17: 36
    0
    Yes and xy with them
  36. Yak28
    Yak28 April 21 2018 17: 37
    +4
    Of course, there is no question about the stealth of the Su-57, you look at its nozzles from su 27, they will glow like a torch on the enemy’s radar. Naturally, the F-22 will be less noticeable. The Indian Air Force did the right thing, this plane is at most 4 ++ but not at all 5 wink
    1. Topol M
      Topol M April 21 2018 17: 39
      +1
      Where are you from clown 57th?
      1. Yak28
        Yak28 April 21 2018 18: 46
        +1
        Especially for the poor, I explain. Su-57 (T-50 factory index) is a promising fifth-generation Russian multi-functional fighter developed by the Sukhoi Design Bureau as part of the PAK FA project
        1. NN52
          NN52 April 21 2018 18: 55
          +4
          Yak28
          Oh how ...
          Already, photoshop with surging went into action ....
          Well done ...
          Did you advise the Indians?
          1. Yak28
            Yak28 April 21 2018 19: 43
            0
            Thanks, laughed
            1. Dezinto
              Dezinto April 21 2018 21: 33
              +3
              Naturally, the F-22 will be less noticeable.

              ok, you don’t tell the main thing to the pilots. And then they are afraid to fly.

              here is a photo of the pack fa in normal flight, no fiery streams escaping from it, and in general, what kind of an airplane could such a one have a fire the size of the floor of its body from a nozzle?
              And secondly, why is F 22 so inconspicuous if everything is arranged as in our SU, if the location of the engines is the same, and they get the same heat ... well, why should I drag Photoshop here?





              but the fact that you have in your picture the fantasy fruit of a bored troll ........
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 42
                +3
                "the position of the engines is the same and they are heated equally." ///

                The F-22 nozzles are a little deep and are covered from the sides with special partitions, and the Su-57 protrude far outward (this is due to over-maneuverability)
                Therefore, the thermal visibility of the Su-57 is much higher.
                1. NN52
                  NN52 April 21 2018 23: 21
                  +3
                  voyaka uh

                  No offense...
                  Tell pzhl the range of detection of the Raptor, with their "nozzles in depth" ...
                  And our Su 57 ...
                  And what is more important than an OLS or radar?
                  1. voyaka uh
                    voyaka uh April 22 2018 00: 09
                    0
                    Optics sees relatively close. First detected by radar.
                    In front of the EPR, the Su-57 is small. For oncoming rapprochement is suitable. It will glow on the air defense radars below. Indians are dissatisfied with this.
                    1. Astoria
                      Astoria April 22 2018 03: 25
                      0
                      Optics sees relatively close. First detected by radar.
                      In front of the EPR, the Su-57 is small. For oncoming rapprochement is suitable. It will glow on the air defense radars below. Indians are dissatisfied with this.
                      - for lack of another, your speculations are very valuable, stay on the line laughing
                    2. Hire
                      Hire April 22 2018 14: 38
                      +6
                      Quote: voyaka uh
                      It will glow on the air defense radars below.

                      Below, how is it? Flying over the radar? smile And will the F-22 from the bottom “glow” in the radio range? And on top of the A-50 radars? And in the meter range? And, in general, it is much easier to develop methods for detecting an aircraft than to hide it.
  37. Topol M
    Topol M April 21 2018 17: 37
    +4
    These cunning Hindus have already lifted up
  38. Topol M
    Topol M April 21 2018 17: 38
    0
    They want to eat a fish and sit on a stake
  39. Non liberoid Russian
    Non liberoid Russian April 21 2018 18: 15
    0
    broke off with technology that’s offended
  40. antikilller55
    antikilller55 April 21 2018 18: 15
    0
    Well, what our planes do not like, buy for a lot of money Amer rawhide.
  41. shahor
    shahor April 21 2018 18: 17
    +7
    How much arrogance and fanfare some commentators have! But a serious matter, a multibillion-dollar deal was broken, so necessary for the aviation industry. And- this is bad advertising. And do not think that the Indians will rush to buy a Su-35 or something else. Do not want more. The reason is quality and (old disease) no service. Half of the Su-30 is inoperative (no spare parts), 40% of the Mig-29 engines are out of order after 3 years of operation. Problems with the tanks. While the Hindus were under embargo, they depended on us. Today, the United States, France, Sweden, Israel stand in line with them (and do not disdain) ... Do you know that Ukraine today has 400 (!) MTC contracts and agreements with India? Previously, these were Russian contracts ... India was one of the two largest buyers (together with China) of the Russian defense industry and at the beginning of 2000 saved it (by purchasing the Su-30 and T90). Today, India and China, for various reasons, not without our fault, are leaving. Some of the commentators accompany this process with a drawing of lots. No matter how you cry! And do not blame everything on the handshakes of the Indians! If I’m not mistaken, a month ago a meeting of the Russian-Azerbaijani MTC Commission took place. We were presented with complaints about the quality - the Smerch MLRS missiles do not fly and do not explode, machine gun cartridges on the BTR-82 do not fire, tank electronics burn very quickly and are not replenished with supplies on time ... sadly. Soon, Bashar will remain our customers and we will lend to each other Maduro.
    1. alekc75
      alekc75 April 21 2018 19: 18
      +2
      all listed ?? expert!
    2. Astoria
      Astoria April 21 2018 19: 25
      0
      Nikolai, from commentary to commentary, you only whine and gundosit, is it your age or professional? laughing
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh April 21 2018 22: 49
        +2
        Much of what he listed was in the press. For example, the complaints of their auditors that the Su-30 really costs an Indian 100 million apiece, including numerous breakdowns and replacements
        quickly failing engines.
        They can’t get away from Russia in tanks, but there are plenty of alternatives with airplanes.
        1. Golovan Jack
          Golovan Jack April 21 2018 22: 54
          +2
          Quote: voyaka uh
          including numerous breakdowns and replacements of rapidly failing engines

          They are horned. Not the engines, in the sense, but the Indians.
          Give such a glass bolt - he And cut his hands, And break the bolt.
          Talents, damn it ... wild negative
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh April 22 2018 00: 13
            +1
            But service in India was made recently. Prior to this, all damage went to Russia. And stuck there for months. And more than 50% of their Su was idle without spare parts.
            It’s in the interests of the supplier to organize the service, keep technicians at their bases, and not blame the bad customer.
            1. Golovan Jack
              Golovan Jack April 22 2018 00: 21
              0
              Quote: voyaka uh
              ... all breakdowns ...

              Where the breakdown is from is what matters. And a comparison of the number and frequency of failures among Indian operators and ... non-Indians laughing
              I repeat, in my experience with them (the guys wrote separate pribludy for the company in which I was working at that time. I was involved in monitoring and acceptance) - the guys ... are very peculiar, to put it mildly.
              1. voyaka uh
                voyaka uh April 22 2018 01: 43
                +1
                I agree with you that kind of. But customers are often not chosen.
                I would also prefer to work only with the Americans: everything on the case, yes, no, no,
                price - real price, e-mail, return, contract, money transfer.
                But we did not come up with this globe with thousands of peoples, we have to work differently with everyone in order to earn money with bread and butter.
    3. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 April 22 2018 09: 59
      0
      Quote: shahor
      How much arrogance and fanfare some commentators have! But a serious matter, a multibillion-dollar deal was broken, so necessary for the aviation industry. And- this is bad advertising. And do not think that the Indians will rush to buy a Su-35 or something else. Do not want more. The reason is quality and (old disease) no service. Half of the Su-30 is inoperative (no spare parts), 40% of the Mig-29 engines are out of order after 3 years of operation. Problems with the tanks. While the Hindus were under embargo, they depended on us. Today, the United States, France, Sweden, Israel stand in line with them (and do not disdain) ... Do you know that Ukraine today has 400 (!) MTC contracts and agreements with India? Previously, these were Russian contracts ... India was one of the two largest buyers (together with China) of the Russian defense industry and at the beginning of 2000 saved it (by purchasing the Su-30 and T90). Today, India and China, for various reasons, not without our fault, are leaving. Some of the commentators accompany this process with a drawing of lots. No matter how you cry! And do not blame everything on the handshakes of the Indians! If I’m not mistaken, a month ago a meeting of the Russian-Azerbaijani MTC Commission took place. We were presented with complaints about the quality - the Smerch MLRS missiles do not fly and do not explode, machine gun cartridges on the BTR-82 do not fire, tank electronics burn very quickly and are not replenished with supplies on time ... sadly. Soon, Bashar will remain our customers and we will lend to each other Maduro.

      Any service depends on money. Hindus like to save, this is their business, but saving and service are sometimes antagonists. About the fact that we were buyers and became sellers in some ways, progress is such that you won’t stop it and it does not depend on our allegedly poor quality, but on the fact that industry is developing in China and India, and we helped. And the quality of our technology also has nothing to do with it.
    4. lopvlad
      lopvlad April 22 2018 17: 18
      +1
      Quote: shahor
      Today, India and China, for various reasons - not without our fault - are leaving


      good riddance. It is unnecessary for us to transfer modern technologies to them so that they later rivet crafts and begin to squeeze us on the arms market.
      The world is big and there will be enough countries for the sale of arms and then the Chinese and Indians will return. The Chinese stumbled for several years trying to make an analogue of the S-400 and then they came and bought from us so it will be with the Indians.
      Everyone knows about the direct hands of the Indians after the explosion of a submarine in the Indian port when these Gypsies loaded the BC through one place.
  42. Conserp
    Conserp April 21 2018 18: 24
    +1
    Again, a crowd of local baboons rushed to suck another faketo be refuted on Monday. For the hundredth time.

    1. NN52
      NN52 April 21 2018 18: 47
      0
      Conserp

      If you have info about promotion double option su 57... Tell pzhl to "local baboons" ... Until we ate bananas ..
      And if on Monday, as you write, there will be no other information? Then how then?
      1. Conserp
        Conserp April 21 2018 20: 05
        +1
        And even then, fakes from biased propaganda tabloids with links to anonymous names do not need to be sucked.

        You can start sucking only after official statements by officials of Russia and India.
  43. andrej-shironov
    andrej-shironov April 21 2018 18: 32
    +3
    Sorry! Sorry I say our urapatriots! How will they settle down now? However, they have already begun to fool around in a different way. wink
    1. Conserp
      Conserp April 21 2018 20: 09
      +1
      Lousy - about the bath, and Svidomo - about "utryakalok".
      1. andrej-shironov
        andrej-shironov April 22 2018 08: 31
        +1
        smile ABOUT! Another one under the dog's nickname!
  44. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha April 21 2018 18: 33
    0
    Well, the tricks of the Indians. Then, they say we will purchase, if the T-50 proves good. And immediately they will demand from us the transfer of technology, their construction in India, etc.
  45. Govorun
    Govorun April 21 2018 18: 35
    0
    They themselves do not know how to do anything, but in the technique they are EXPERTS ....
  46. parkello
    parkello April 21 2018 18: 45
    +3
    a flag in your hands, and a drum around your neck well ... you don’t want to, whatever you want) go then buy from the French for the same price or buy fu-35 from the Americans. and in your mouth tee sprat Vasya ...
  47. Penzyac
    Penzyac April 21 2018 18: 45
    +1
    Quote: Yak28
    Of course, there is no question about the stealth of the Su-57, you look at its nozzles from su 27, they will glow like a torch on the enemy’s radar. Naturally, the F-22 will be less noticeable. The Indian Air Force did the right thing, this plane is at most 4 ++ but not at all 5 wink

    Another "specialist" for generations ...
    And what generation does the penguin have? If the main thing is "stealth", then the Wright Brothers' rag Aircraft will be the best ...
    1. G A_2
      G A_2 April 21 2018 20: 00
      0
      Quote: PENZYAC
      Quote: Yak28
      Of course, there is no question about the stealth of the Su-57, you look at its nozzles from su 27, they will glow like a torch on the enemy’s radar. Naturally, the F-22 will be less noticeable. The Indian Air Force did the right thing, this plane is at most 4 ++ but not at all 5 wink

      Another "specialist" for generations ...
      And what generation does the penguin have? If the main thing is "stealth", then the Wright Brothers' rag Aircraft will be the best ...

      "Stealth" bullshit. Good. Two in the forest want to find and kill each other. Armed equally and both cool. Only one is dressed in a camouflage uniform and the other in a bright orange uniform. Question. What shape do you prefer?
      1. Conserp
        Conserp April 22 2018 01: 52
        +1
        Quote: G A_2
        Two in the forest want to find and kill each other. Armed equally and both cool. Only one is dressed in a camouflage uniform and the other in a bright orange uniform.

        In this case, it happens on a dark night and both with flashlights.

        Before you come up with stupid false analogies, you need to understand the subject a little.
  48. Outsider
    Outsider April 21 2018 18: 47
    +2
    Quote: Vlad.by
    Yes, not news at all. The fact that the Indians will leave this program became clear when they were told that they would not be completely transferred the technology.

    “So they came out because there is nothing to transmit ... Ihtamnet, of the necessary technologies.” Not in the design of the aircraft, there are no documents with which you can make the design of the stealth aircraft.
    That's why they came out ...
    1. Astoria
      Astoria April 21 2018 19: 27
      +1
      Thank you Michael, how come up with something new - do not keep in yourself, keep VO in the know laughing
  49. Outsider
    Outsider April 21 2018 18: 51
    +2
    Quote: Vita VKO
    Quote: askme
    And then we’ll take the full price from them) Hare Krishna!

    Over time, any technology becomes obsolete and cheaper. India just needs the FGFA project as a pomegranate monkey. In addition, probably the United States following the role played in this matter. In fact, the FGFA project had to be implemented with China for a long time. In this case, the Su-57 would have been mass-produced for a long time.

    - So China launched into the series, and - into the BIG series, J-20, - and the unfinished Su-57 on Kua China, from which its own ministry of defense turns its face ??
  50. Darth Vader
    Darth Vader April 21 2018 18: 57
    +1
    a woman to a platoon - a regimental mare is easier .... Hindus need everything at once, and for free, but it doesn’t happen .....
    1. Awaz
      Awaz April 21 2018 23: 44
      0
      Well, as if, if you were to do the same for the Indians, then for yourself the plane would be cheaper and, at the very worst, the volume of production and some other characteristics would be improved during joint operation ..
      1. XXXIII
        XXXIII April 21 2018 23: 59
        +1
        Quote: AwaZ
        Well, as if, if you were to do the same for the Indians, then for yourself the plane would be cheaper and, at the very worst, the volume of production and some other characteristics would be improved during joint operation ..

        What is the benefit of this RF, this Su-57 aircraft is fully developed and assembled from materials that are produced on the territory of the Russian Federation. We make them exclusively for ourselves, analogues for export are sold for other reasons, advertising, money, a side view of the plane by other institutes of the military-industrial complex. But export does not imply full or partial transfer of technology, assembly in another territory. If everything rested on money, they would still sell the drawings at the development stage or collect them for nothing yes