Military Review

Why didn't the Syrian army use Bastion II?

68
Coastal anti-ship missile systems "Bastion P" are considered the most secret and at the same time one of the most powerful systems weapons in the arsenal of the Syrian army, writes Messenger of Mordovia.


Why didn't the Syrian army use Bastion II?
Launch of the rocket "Bastion" on the objects of terrorists in the SAR in 2016.

It is difficult to argue with this: “Indeed, there are no such systems not only for the neighbors of Syria, but also for the majority of the developed military powers. A warhead weighing two hundred kilograms, mounted in a three-ton rocket, flying to a target at an altitude of 10 meters, leaves no chance for even large enemy ships to survive 300 km away, ”says Dmitry Lemeshko.

Earlier, experts noted that it is almost impossible to detect and intercept the missile of this coastal complex not only with modern, but also with promising means naval Air defense of NATO countries.

So why the "Bastions" did not use against the ships of Western countries during a rocket attack on Syria?

As the author explains, “the fact is, the strikes were delivered by surface ships, mainly from the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, that is, from an area that was beyond the reach of the missile systems,” aimed also at the Mediterranean.

In the Mediterranean then there were only French ships, one of which produced only three cruise missiles. "His role in the attack, apparently, was considered insignificant, and it decided not to spend expensive means of destruction," - concludes the publication.
Photos used:
RIA Novosti / Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
68 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. AL176STM30
    AL176STM30 April 19 2018 14: 40
    +13
    Yes, because. What. He is old, and, in modern realities, bespontovy ...
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov April 19 2018 14: 42
      +20
      Quote: AL176STM30
      Yes, because. What. He is old, and, in modern realities, bespontovy ...

      Well .. heh heh This system will be applied in extreme cases! And your AUG USA praised will sink within half an hour ..
    2. hrych
      hrych April 19 2018 14: 43
      +30
      Quote: AL176STM30
      Yes, because. What. He is old, and, in modern realities, bespontovy ...

      He’s younger than you, though ... He’s 7 years old, it’s time for school laughing It was adopted in 2010 wassat
    3. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 19 2018 14: 51
      +19
      Quote: AL176STM30
      Yes, because. What. He is old, and, in modern realities, bespontovy ...

      Seriously? And to argue weakly this bowel movement?
      1. LiSiCyn
        LiSiCyn April 19 2018 15: 09
        +6
        Someone already threw off the info ... About 337 wreaths and a reserved place at Arlington cemetery, just Cook's crew ... In the affected area, only he was.
        1. Alex777
          Alex777 April 19 2018 15: 14
          +8
          It was they who planned to blow it themselves. Blame us. Like the Skripals. They did not count on a gift in the form of a rocket. Then this script was canceled. hi
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Korb
              Korb April 23 2018 19: 41
              0
              "What do you know about the Skripals?" - rjunimagu wassat - And you ?!?! "That they were trailed by the Beginner is a fact." “You’ll already decide what a newbie is ... not only is it, for a moment, a BATTLE poisonous substance, not only is it more powerful than VX,” only the hamsters died, and then - from hunger and lack of water - well, yes Our "began to pile on a lie." laughing
      2. askort154
        askort154 April 19 2018 16: 04
        +7
        NEXUS.....Seriously? And to argue weakly this bowel movement?

        Andrei hi This is now a group of trolls settled on the site. They make a throw, and the first, and again into sleep mode. No need to react, this is their sore spot.
      3. venik
        venik April 19 2018 16: 21
        +10
        Quote: NEXUS
        Seriously? And to argue weakly this bowel movement?

        =======
        Yes, drop it! the "highly respected" AL176STM30 (he did not sensibly name) he probably thinks that Aegis is "new" ..... Poor guy! He is probably unaware that Aegis was developed back in the years of “my foggy youth” (and this year I’m retired). It is clear that over the years, Aegis has gone through a bunch of modernizations, BUT! This BIOS works fine for ballistic goals (even in near space!), but here on the supersonic highly maneuverable low-flying targets - Alas! Most Standard missiles (also not the latest invention) do not have warheads (!) And are designed for direct hit ("hit to kill") ...... But this means that against high-speed and maneuverable anti-ship missiles, the probability of destruction is - no more than 8 - 0.2 (!) ....
        Do you think in vain that this long-suffering “Cook” was removed “away from sin” before the operation?
        So, God, with him with this AL176STM30 - let him continue to be in "blissful" ignorance - the main thing is that the "ether does not clog" !!!
        1. misti1973
          misti1973 April 21 2018 08: 27
          0
          What about SM -6? They have ARLGSN and can bring down almost any anti-ship missiles. Yes and SM-2 also have a charge of 60 kg. And that with a kinetic warhead, then SM-3 high-altitude interceptor.
  2. Major Yurik
    Major Yurik April 19 2018 14: 41
    +33
    The French have survived, they already feel sorry for the rocket. They themselves will get scammed! negative
    1. hrych
      hrych April 19 2018 14: 53
      +25
      Quote: Major Yurik
      The French have survived, they already feel sorry for the rocket. They themselves will get scammed!

      Dratanyan is not the same laughing
      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 April 19 2018 15: 55
        +6
        Quote: hrych
        Dratanyan is not the same laughing

        Platini too. yes
        1. Sergey-72
          Sergey-72 April 19 2018 16: 08
          +8
          Given how they breed, soon all European teams will look like this, why be surprised?
          1. Paranoid50
            Paranoid50 April 19 2018 16: 10
            +4
            Quote: Sergey-72
            soon all European teams will look like this,

            Some time ago even one Russian “national” team looked like that. laughing
  3. tlauicol
    tlauicol April 19 2018 14: 45
    +16
    Those. sat watching the francs. They look - they shoot. Well, they think that if they release a dozen, we’ll drown! What nonsense
    1. Borik
      Borik April 19 2018 14: 53
      +3
      It is still unknown whether at least one French missile from three launched from the frigate to the coast of Syria flew.
      1. _Sergei_
        _Sergei_ April 19 2018 16: 13
        +1
        The Syrians handed over to Russia two "smart" American missiles, which fell themselves and did not explode, and almost whole. And where are the French.
  4. NIKNN
    NIKNN April 19 2018 14: 47
    +5
    Only the French ships were in the Mediterranean at that time, one of which launched only three cruise missiles. "His role in the attack, apparently, was recognized as insignificant, and they decided not to spend expensive means of destruction on him," concludes edition.

    Well, damn specialists (through YAT in Old Slavonic it is necessary to express oneself) one another is cooler ...
    1. venik
      venik April 19 2018 16: 34
      +1
      Quote: NIKNN
      Only the French ships were in the Mediterranean at that time, one of which launched only three cruise missiles.

      =======
      Lord Probably "behind the times", but still terribly interesting, what kind of "cruise missiles" did the Franks launch in Syria ?? As far as I remember, they have only one Caliber-class missile - Tomogavk - and that is still under development .....
      What did they shoot? "Exosets" ???
      1. NIKNN
        NIKNN April 19 2018 16: 47
        0
        Quote: venik
        What did they shoot?

        Scalp is old, well, relatively Range 1000km, warhead = 200 kg ... Storm Shadow new both new at our briefing were mentioned ...
        1. venik
          venik April 19 2018 18: 37
          +1
          Quote: NIKNN
          Scalp is old, well, relatively Range 1000km, warhead = 200 kg ... Storm Shadow new both new at our briefing were mentioned ...

          =========
          Stop! I do not understand .... But both of them seem to have a maximum firing range - approx. 250 km !! Where is 1 000 ?? I read somewhere that francs develop KR with a firing range of a little more than 1 km, but there seems to have not even reached the test .....
          Nikolay, if not a secret - "where are the woods from" ?? Can you tell me the source? Very interesting!
          1. NIKNN
            NIKNN April 19 2018 18: 56
            0
            Quote: venik
            Nikolay, if not a secret - "where are the woods from" ?? Can you tell me the source? Very interesting!

            I’m sorry, I’m guilty .. From somewhere in the old brains surfaced ... Yes, 250 km I myself wrote that it is the same as the S-200 D defeat Perhaps (I do not affirm and do not make excuses) the option of sea-based ... you have to look, lie to that I don’t want more than 2 times ... My apologies ... hi
            1. venik
              venik April 19 2018 19: 16
              +1
              Quote: NIKNN
              the option of sea-based ... I have to watch, lying all the more the second time I do not want ... My apologies ...

              ========
              Nikolay! You know, but you don’t seem to lie! I skipped over the Internet here - it seemed like something similar (SCALP Naval) seemed to have been adopted (and the range corresponds to about 1000 km ...) and it seems like the Greeks became interested in it ..... I really don’t understand HOW it can fit into the framework of the treaty "On the non-proliferation of rocket technologies" (France and Britain also signed it, as it were) ... (and it seems like it says that it is forbidden to sell missiles (or missile production technologies) with a range of more than 300 km and a warhead weighing more than 500 kg ...).
              Well, in general - "shake it - see!"
              1. NIKNN
                NIKNN April 19 2018 19: 28
                0
                Quote: venik
                with a range of more than 300 km and a warhead weighing more than 500 kg ...).

                Well, what kind of missile are they talking about? The same missile they have in two versions of aviation and sea-based, one has a range of 250 and the other 1000 of which request And we noticed this confusion exclusively among the French ... it’s difficult for us to somehow identify the Slavs, they understand everything ... hi
          2. NIKNN
            NIKNN April 19 2018 19: 06
            0
            Compared to the earlier version of the SCALP EG missile, the marine version of the SCALP Naval is equipped with a modified Microturbo engine and has a modified glider compatible with the Sylver universal vertical launchers (UVPU) and torpedo tubes. The penetrating type Broach unitary warhead has been replaced by a new multipurpose warhead, although the naval guidance system for the missile has remained the same. The maximum flight range of the Kyrgyz Republic exceeds 1000 km. The French Navy plans to acquire 200 SCALP marine missiles, 150 of which will be deployed on the Akiten type FREMM multipurpose frigates under construction,

            From here apparently ... https://raigap.livejournal.com/468875.html
            or here you can see http://bastion-karpenko.ru/mdcn/
  5. uhu189
    uhu189 April 19 2018 14: 50
    +11
    Why? Because they understand with their heads that they should not go into a direct war with NATO without extreme need, attacking a French warship and at the same time giving a chic occasion for systematic retaliation strikes. NATO has a perverse logic ...
    1. Graz
      Graz April 19 2018 15: 27
      +2
      and what’s left to ruin, most of the cities and so the ruins may have been an agreement nevertheless
      1. misti1973
        misti1973 April 21 2018 08: 18
        -1
        It’s not in the city, but somewhere on the sidelines. And the fact that the cities are in ruins, so we tried our best. Well, Assad’s aviation too.
  6. huntsman650
    huntsman650 April 19 2018 14: 50
    +3
    Stupid article. There were no targets in the affected area.
    1. yaros
      yaros April 19 2018 14: 54
      0
      That's right.
      Quote: huntsman650
      Stupid article. There were no targets in the affected area.
      1. prodi
        prodi April 19 2018 15: 37
        +1
        Well, would they - they answered? After all, the old MIG-21s could be spiked for the first time
        1. huntsman650
          huntsman650 April 19 2018 16: 09
          +1
          And if yes koby yes in the mouth mushrooms grew. Why do we need a war from Syria. Turn on the brain. And then only IMOTIONS. That instant 21 just shot down.
          1. prodi
            prodi April 19 2018 17: 44
            0
            in our place, I would have provoked it altogether, and so that not a single vessel would stay afloat
            1. misti1973
              misti1973 April 21 2018 08: 16
              0
              That is why you are not in our place! Weapons cannot be trusted such weapons - quickly unleash the Third World War.
  7. Bomb
    Bomb April 19 2018 14: 58
    +4
    Even if in the reach zone it would still not be used, because the eggs of some of the hands of the guides are in ticks.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS April 19 2018 15: 12
      +2
      Quote: Bomb
      Even if in the reach zone it would still not be used, because the eggs of some of the hands of the guides are in ticks.

      What does it have to do with it? Have our citizens suffered a missile strike? NO! So with what fright should we have drowned the carrier?
  8. Serg65
    Serg65 April 19 2018 15: 07
    +2
    laughing Klava, I am losing weight !!!!!
    So why the "Bastions" did not use against the ships of Western countries during a rocket attack on Syria?

    Interestingly ktozh on the Internet wanted to bullet the Bastions in milk?
    tlauikol, uhu189, Bomb, I advise you to inquire whether the Franks entered the access zone, and then try to play the clave Marlieson ballet wink
  9. rpuropuu
    rpuropuu April 19 2018 15: 08
    +1
    Quote: Bomb
    Even if in the reach zone it would still not be used, because the eggs of some of the hands of the guides are in ticks.

    By the fact that the big uncles had already decided everything in advance, and everyone had to preserve their reputation what
  10. tank66
    tank66 April 19 2018 15: 14
    0
    Why, why. At VO, in connection with the late / early / time, they did not hold express voting, Putin did not call Shoigu, and he was confused: whether to wake Assad or not. And when we woke up, the paddles AWAYED.
  11. Vittt
    Vittt April 19 2018 15: 35
    -1
    You can praise yourself "oh yes Stirlitz, oh yes son of a bitch," but the complexes "bastion, ball, yachont" are outdated. But!!! only if the claimed range is true.
  12. andrson
    andrson April 19 2018 16: 05
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Quote: Bomb
    Even if in the reach zone it would still not be used, because the eggs of some of the hands of the guides are in ticks.

    What does it have to do with it? Have our citizens suffered a missile strike? NO! So with what fright should we have drowned the carrier?

    And we will find out. what did Russian citizens suffer?
  13. Sergey-72
    Sergey-72 April 19 2018 16: 05
    0
    So why the "Bastions" did not use against the ships of Western countries during a rocket attack on Syria?

    "Bastion" probably still can be used against land bases. Target designation who submits to the complex, a drone or helicopters MA?
    1. huntsman650
      huntsman650 April 19 2018 16: 19
      0
      From the radar, which works from the shore by water. GOS what is the bastion, RL. the direction and range are entered, in a certain area the Bosko is switched on and begins to search for the target, then capture the guidance, before the target anti-aircraft maneuver.
    2. Doliva63
      Doliva63 April 19 2018 18: 34
      +5
      Quote: Sergey-72
      So why the "Bastions" did not use against the ships of Western countries during a rocket attack on Syria?

      "Bastion" probably still can be used against land bases. Target designation who submits to the complex, a drone or helicopters MA?

      So in the article there is a photo with a signature - launching a rocket at a terrorist base, not? drinks
  14. huntsman650
    huntsman650 April 19 2018 16: 21
    0
    It was possible to send a boat with grenade launchers to swim and shoot point blank, under the guise of a fishing schooner. Article is nonsense.
  15. Stas Snezhin
    Stas Snezhin April 19 2018 16: 23
    +2
    Quote: Paranoid50
    Quote: hrych
    Dratanyan is not the same laughing

    Platini too. yes

    Here, it would be Napoleon’s army ..))
  16. konstantin68
    konstantin68 April 19 2018 16: 41
    +2
    I did not apply because such a task was not set! The author of the article probably sincerely believes that there was a real war.
  17. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener April 19 2018 16: 56
    +3
    Because at least a little, but they think with their heads. And they will not translate a half-contracted strike by cruise missiles into a full-scale war. Because the destruction of the ship is a cause for war. And it will be a great gift for the United States to roll out Assad. Reducing all our efforts to zero.
  18. Chifka
    Chifka April 19 2018 17: 13
    +1
    Quote: Servisinzhener
    Because at least a little, but they think with their heads. And they will not translate a half-contracted strike by cruise missiles into a full-scale war. Because the destruction of the ship is a cause for war. And it will be a great gift for the United States to roll out Assad. Reducing all our efforts to zero.

    Surprisingly, in VO there are still intelligible and sensible comments good
  19. Z_G_R
    Z_G_R April 19 2018 17: 45
    +1
    not used because it’s stupid to do it now. It was necessary either to strike right away for the sake of alarm, or now when it will be completely clear that the end is coming.
  20. Wolka
    Wolka April 19 2018 18: 15
    0
    however, one racket still cost the paddling pool to point out their place ...
  21. rotor
    rotor April 19 2018 18: 37
    +1
    Syrian "Bastion P" awaits Amer AUG. As the AUG comes, it will sink it. laughing laughing laughing
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 19 2018 20: 05
      +3
      In, I just wanted to write this ... What did he exchange for the French?
      An aircraft carrier will do, and a dozen rockets will be slammed into it. Not the first time ... smile
  22. Old26
    Old26 April 19 2018 18: 50
    0
    The question in the article is not clear: WHY THE SYRIAN ARMY DID NOT APPLY BASTIONS if the author is well aware that launches from the bulk of surface ships passed from the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf.

    Well, the phrase
    A warhead weighing two hundred kilograms mounted in a three-ton rocket flying to a target at a height of 10 meters leaves no chance for surviving even large enemy ships at a distance of 300 km, ”says Dmitry Lemeshko.
    just killed. it would not hurt the actor to know that when shooting at low altitudes, but by no means 10 meters (this is only at the final stage, when the rocket leaves the radio horizon), the flight range is not more than 120 km

    Quote: MIKHAN
    This system will be applied in extreme cases! And your AUG USA praised will sink within half an hour ..

    Vitalik. Checker their saber. That's just how to sink the AUG, when it will be at a distance of 600 km. And in order for the rocket to reach its full range, that is, 300 km, it is necessary for it to go at a marching altitude of only 14 kilometer. Only the blind will not see her long before the GOS missile captures the target

    Quote: prodi
    After all, the old MIG-21s could be spiked for the first time

    Well, judging by your logic on ships, all anti-aircraft missiles will be sealed, as well as their launch systems, so as not to fire? The same "Aster-30" MIG-21 can "remove" from a distance of a hundred kilometers ...
    1. prodi
      prodi April 19 2018 19: 17
      0
      Quote: Old26
      The question in the article is not clear: WHY THE SYRIAN ARMY DID NOT APPLY BASTIONS if the author is well aware that launches from the bulk of surface ships passed from the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf.
      Quote: prodi
      After all, the old MIG-21s could be spiked for the first time

      Well, judging by your logic on ships, all anti-aircraft missiles will be sealed, as well as their launch systems, so as not to fire? The same "Aster-30" MIG-21 can "remove" from a distance of a hundred kilometers ...

      if they tried, then for the first time, in the bustle, it could have worked, but didn’t try the same? ..
      I’m just talking about what happened - this is a one-goal game, and it ALWAYS ends in a goal
      1. prodi
        prodi April 19 2018 20: 18
        0
        if in essence, then everything is maximally hung on the MIG, missiles are fired off before entering the air defense zone, one attacks from above, the other drops to water
        Yes ram ram
  23. APASUS
    APASUS April 19 2018 19: 58
    +1
    As the author explains, “the fact is, the strikes were delivered by surface ships, mainly from the Red Sea and the Persian Gulf, that is, from an area that was beyond the reach of the missile systems,” aimed also at the Mediterranean.
    Only the French ships were in the Mediterranean at that time, one of which launched only three cruise missiles. "His role in the attack, apparently, was recognized as insignificant, and they decided not to spend expensive means of destruction on him," the publication concludes

    Of course, this is a very serious fact and requires a balanced decision, but maybe it was worth putting the French to the bottom?
    France is not the United States and can swallow, because Syria has every right to protect itself from aggression. This will show the seriousness of the intentions of our authorities and once again show to what level you can reach.
    Although the decision is very serious
  24. Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan April 19 2018 20: 44
    +1
    Because it is not enough to have good weapons, to win you need determination and courage ... And here our and the Syrians just decided not to aggravate, they got scared ... It's just a shame and there is no excuse for that !!! If they hit even one rocket in your country, destroy the one who does it !!!
    1. misti1973
      misti1973 April 21 2018 08: 00
      0
      And do not get involved with a prompter ten times stronger than you! And then the answer is tormenting. We do not understand jokes. Another storm in the desert would have been arranged and that’s all. And we would have remained without bases.
  25. shirkoled
    shirkoled April 19 2018 21: 11
    0
    It was a performance! Everyone was satisfied! Americans fired into the white light, like a pretty penny-off! Russia and Syria have accused the Yankees of destabilization, and so on, also a set-off!
  26. Zomanus
    Zomanus April 20 2018 00: 13
    0
    Yes, because apply it and would go to a move more
    massive strikes and more powerful weapons.
  27. macgyver
    macgyver April 20 2018 00: 38
    0
    There, "Donald Cook" sailed for a long time, wanted to be allowed to the bottom ... and why "the natives did not eat Cook"? Apparently someone wiser did not allow ...
  28. Old26
    Old26 April 20 2018 09: 22
    0
    Quote: prodi
    if they tried, then for the first time, in the bustle, it could have worked, but didn’t try the same? ..

    This might not have worked the first time, but if it had been a routine. Once they didn’t answer, the second, third, tenth, and on the eleventh MIG-21 would have appeared. And when something is done for the first time, on the contrary, everyone is tense, waiting ...
    Quote: Sergey-72
    "Bastion" probably still can be used against land bases.

    Can. If they are in the affected area. And if not, then there is no trial.

    Quote: NIKNN
    I’m sorry, I’m guilty .. From somewhere in the old brains surfaced ... Yes, 250 km I myself wrote that it is the same as the S-200 D defeat Perhaps (I do not affirm and do not make excuses) the option of sea-based ... you have to look, lie to that I don’t want more than 2 times ... My apologies ...

    They fired, as far as it is known, not with "clean" Scalp missiles, but with its modified version of the "Scalp-EG", which has a range of 400 km. At least it was voiced initially. Then information passed that Scalpel Naval missiles with a range of 1000 km were used, but how reliable this information is is unknown. Well, "Storm Shadow" is the same "Scalp", but only British

    Quote: venik
    I don’t understand how it can fit into the framework of the treaty "On the Non-Proliferation of Missile Technologies" (France and Britain also signed it) ... (and it seems like it says that it’s forbidden to sell missiles (or missile production technologies) with a range of more than 300 km and a warhead weighing more than 500 kg ...).
    Well, in general - "shake it - see!"

    If you don't mind, I’ll answer the namesake. The thing is that in these Wassenaar agreements there is one detail that is rarely talked about. Restrictions on the range (300 km) and all 500 kg warheads apply when one of the parties (seller) is a party to these agreements and the other (buyer) is not.

    As an example,
    In Syria, which is not a signatory to this agreement, we can sell the same missiles in export modification, that is, with restrictions of 300 km and 500 kg. But in the same India, we can sell rockets without these restrictions. True, this can only concern sea and air-based missiles. On land, we are limited by another agreement - on the INF Treaty.

    Both France, and Great Britain, and Italy are parties to this agreement. And accordingly, these restrictions do not apply to them. as far as I know (there were such numbers) Britain bought 900 missiles, France - 500, Italy - 200 (though I can’t say which modification)

    Quote: prodi
    in our place, I would have provoked it altogether, and so that not a single vessel would stay afloat

    Their or ours?

    Quote: Doliva63
    Quote: Sergey-72
    So why the "Bastions" did not use against the ships of Western countries during a rocket attack on Syria?

    "Bastion" probably still can be used against land bases. Target designation who submits to the complex, a drone or helicopters MA?

    So in the article there is a photo with a signature - launching a rocket at a terrorist base, not? drinks

    Currently (EMNIP since 2015-2016), the Bastion has the ability to shoot at ground targets ...

    Quote: Ratmir_Ryazan
    If they hit even one rocket in your country, destroy the one who does it !!!

    A brilliant example. Let’s go - you worked out, on the carrier, and in response to several hundred rockets and about a hundred aircraft starts to roll you. You need to know where and when you can and should do it, and not hang up labels that cowards were scared
  29. misti1973
    misti1973 April 21 2018 07: 54
    0
    200 kg, even ArliBerk will not sink? In addition, they have a full-fledged anti-missile system and sm-6 with ARLGSN. They would have shot down and not 100 missiles would have flown in response, they would have carried out a large-scale operation to remove Assad. Therefore, they didn’t shoot, because this only aggravated that’s all.
  30. panzerfaust
    panzerfaust April 23 2018 20: 19
    0
    Range 300 km. This is already ridiculous. At least 1000 is needed.
  31. xomaNN
    xomaNN April 24 2018 18: 36
    0
    The question arises, "Are these DBKs in a combat-ready state?" am
  32. Anton001
    Anton001 April 25 2018 02: 50
    0
    It is thought that if the sinking of one of the ships would not provoke one of the loonies to take an even more unreasonable step