Military Review

Modernization of BMP-1: serial cars will appear by the autumn

91
For reasons of economy, the Russian Ministry of Defense not only orders new armored combat vehicles, but also modernizes the existing equipment. One of the current projects of this kind provides for the renovation of the morally and physically outdated infantry fighting vehicles BMP-1. According to recent reports, the industry has already begun to carry out such work, and their first results will appear in the very near future. BMP-1 in the updated form will go into service in early autumn.


A few weeks ago, in early March, the Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation talked about ongoing work and preparations for the implementation of current orders. According to official reports, in 2018, enterprises from the corporation were to begin assembling four types of armored vehicles. In the series were supposed to go Tanks T-90M and T-80BVM, BMPT tank support vehicle and upgraded BMP-1 infantry fighting vehicle. The first samples of equipment of all these types were planned to be sent to service over the next few months.

Previously, some details of the modernization project of the BMP-1 were clarified, and now new data has been published. The main ways to improve the characteristics of technology, as well as the timing of work, have become known. In addition, it was announced the start of work on the restoration of one of the experimental machines, which in the near future will become a museum exhibit.


BMP-1 in the original configuration


A few days ago, the press service of Uralvagonzavod announced the company's intention to restore the prototype model of the BMP-1, known as the 765 Object. The armored vehicle, intended for passing various tests, was built in 1974 by the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant. For years, the car participated in various tests and thus ensured the development of its project. Over the years of testing and experimentation, the 765 Object has developed its life and could no longer be used for its intended purpose.

In 2013, the experienced "765 Object" changed owner. The unusable car was handed over to the corporation Uralvagonzavod. In connection with the development of the resource and the impossibility of further work, the armored vehicle could be sent for recycling. However, it was decided to save this prototype. Moreover, it was offered to repair and restore it, and then send it to the museum. The specialists of Uralvagonzavod have already studied the design documentation and carried out part of the restoration work. In particular, restored appearance of the chassis. In the foreseeable future, other elements of the machine will be restored.

In this case, we are talking about restoring an experienced "765 Object" with the return to its original form. Serial BMP-1, in turn, within the framework of the project adopted for implementation, will acquire a new look and gain new capabilities. The current modernization project involves the repair and restoration of some units with simultaneous replacement of others. The main goal of this project is to increase the combat capabilities through the use of a modern armament complex.

Upgraded BMP-1 must maintain the standard body, power plant and chassis. Thus, they will still have a full range of bulletproof protection with enhanced frontal projection. UTD-20 diesel engine with HP 300 power. allow you to maintain the desired mobility. The tracked undercarriage will provide for overcoming various obstacles, and in addition, it will retain the propulsion functions for moving through water. With the exception of certain features, the chassis meets current requirements and can continue to serve.

In the recent past, domestic enterprises repeatedly proposed this or that version of upgrading infantry fighting vehicles, but more often they did not provide for increased protection. Whether the upgraded BMP-1 will receive any hinged protection that complements the body's regular armor was not specified.

One of the main claims to the infantry fighting vehicles BMP-1 associated with obsolete weapons. The main weapons Such a technique is an 73-2 “Thunder” 28-mm smooth-bore gun, which no longer meets current requirements. In this regard, all new projects for the modernization of such combat vehicles provide for the replacement of weapons or combat compartment as a whole. As follows from recent reports, the current update of the BMP-1 also provides for the rejection of the outdated gun.

In the recent past, information was published on upgrading infantry fighting vehicles through the installation of a combat module B05YA01 "Berezhok" with cannon-machine-gun and rocket armament. In addition, until a certain time in the context of the update BMP-1 featured system "cleaver". 16 APRIA RIA News published other information on the rearmament of armored vehicles describing the current state of affairs in this area. According to his data, received from an unnamed representative of NPK Uralvagonzavod, instead of the standard tower, BMP-1 will receive a combat module borrowed from the BTR-82A armored personnel carrier.


Tower with 73-mm tool to be replaced


Thus, on the pursuit of the roof of the hull instead of a closed tower with internal placement of weapons will be located armored cap with external means of mounting a gun and a machine gun. The 2A72 30 automatic caliber mm gun will remain on the main swinging unit. The PKTM rifle caliber machine gun will be used as an auxiliary weapon. Also, the new combat module carries a set of smoke grenade launchers.

The equipment, borrowed from an armored personnel carrier, is equipped with a TKN-4GA combined sight, providing search and shelling of targets at any time of the day. The fire control system includes a two-plane stabilizer. Weapons can use ammunition of various types, suitable for defeating those or other purposes. In this case, the fire control system includes a channel for remotely detonating small-caliber artillery shells.

Such a re-equipment gives the upgraded BMP-1 notable advantages over the machines of the original configuration. The range and effectiveness of aimed fire increases in a perceptible way, as well as the possibility of attacking ground and air targets, including those with large elevation angles of the gun. In fact, in terms of firing characteristics, the updated BMP-1 becomes a direct analogue to the newer BMP-2 or the BTR-82A armored personnel carrier, which served as the source of components. At the same time, it retains high mobility and performance.

RIA Novosti, citing a source in the defense industry, indicates the main consequences of replacing the combat module. Tests have already been conducted, and the prototype with the new weapons showed itself from the best side. The chassis of an infantry fighting vehicle is heavier, wider and more stable in comparison with the BTR-82A, and therefore when fired, this technique hardly sways. This has a positive effect on shooting accuracy and effective range of fire. In addition, such a machine, having a tracked chassis of high maneuverability, can work in some combat formations with tanks.

According to RIA Novosti, the modernization program of the existing infantry fighting vehicles BMP-1 with the replacement of equipment and the installation of new weapons will give real results in the near future. Apparently, the required work has already started, and now you can wait for the first updated machines to go to the combat units of the ground forces.

The restructuring of the cash equipment will be completed in the very near future. Soon the first batch of cars will go to the tests, which are expected to be completed before the summer. After solving some issues of one kind or another, this technique will pass acceptance and will be returned to service. The transfer of the BMP-1 of the first batch must pass before the beginning of autumn. This will be followed by new works on the repair and modernization of existing combat vehicles, as a result of which the army will receive several more lots of equipment.

The volume of the existing order, the timing of its implementation and the cost has not yet been specified. Apparently, Uralvagonzavod NPK will continue to work for several years, and during this time dozens or hundreds of armored combat vehicles will be updated. However, we can not exclude a higher rate of work, allowing you to remake a greater number of equipment.


Armored personnel carrier BTR-82А with a combat module. The same equipment will receive upgraded BMP-1


A significant number of obsolete or obsolete infantry fighting vehicles of early models remain in service with the Russian army. For one reason or another, such equipment no longer meets modern requirements, as a result of which it needs to be modernized or even replaced. Wanting to get a certain savings, the Ministry of Defense is choosing the first path to the development of the fleet of vehicles. It provides for the preservation of existing machines with their simultaneous alteration in accordance with the new requirements.

However, some specific features of the proposed project raise questions. Starting with the BMP-1, all domestic infantry fighting vehicles carried anti-tank missile systems of various types. A new modernization project involves the installation of a combat module from the BTR-82A, which does not have this capability. At the same time, the Berezhok module, as well as other similar systems proposed for the modernization of domestic armored vehicles in the past, is completed with standard launchers for several missiles in containers. Why it was decided to abandon the rocket armament, which allows attacking protected targets at long ranges, is unknown.

Apparently, this choice of combat module is associated with the customer's desire to save on production. The BTR-82A armored personnel carriers and units for them have been mass-produced for a long time, and are also well mastered by the troops. However, alternative developments are also in the series, and they are planned to be used to update other equipment. So, last year it was argued that the already mentioned combat module "Berezhok" would be used in the modernization of existing BMP-2.

It is curious that, as a result of the implementation of the new project, Russia will join a kind of club of countries that have modernized their BMP-1 by replacing weapons. Previously, a number of such projects were created by order of several foreign armies, who also considered the standard weapon of such equipment unsuitable for use in modern conditions. The new Russian project adds to the list of options for modernization, which is likely to grow in the foreseeable future.

Despite the considerable age of such equipment, there are still a significant number of infantry fighting vehicles BMP-1 in units and at the storage bases of the Russian army. The disposal and disposal of these stocks has a definite meaning, but the military department found another way to get rid of obsolete samples with maximum benefit. A certain amount of morally and physically obsolete armored vehicles will undergo modernization, the results of which will be able to continue service along with newer models. The first BMP-1 with a new weapon will go to the army before the beginning of the next autumn.

On the materials of the sites:
http://tass.ru/
http://rg.ru/
http://ria.ru/
https://tvzvezda.ru/
http://uvz.ru/
Author:
Photos used:
Wikimedia Commons, Vitalykuzmin.net
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  1. nikoliski
    nikoliski April 19 2018 05: 50
    +5
    BMP-1 without KAZ is a coffin, therefore, first of all, it is necessary to equip all KAZ Arena vehicles, then already think about the rest
    1. Separ DNR
      Separ DNR April 19 2018 06: 00
      +9
      Quote: nikoliski
      BMP-1 without KAZ is a coffin

      But we, these coffins, the main equipment and the "fire power" of motorized rifle subunits.
      About the deplorable technical condition of our coffins, brought in by various winds, I already mentioned something in passing, and since then nothing has changed.

      What next?
      1. Per se.
        Per se. April 19 2018 12: 57
        +7
        Quote: Separ DNR
        But we, these coffins, the main equipment and the "fire power" of motorized rifle subunits.
        Any technique can become a coffin if it is stupid to use it. Any armor makes its way, and from under any armor, infantry will have to crawl out for battle, even if the Mouse is under the infantry or the mastodon T-15.
        1. Gennadich
          Gennadich April 19 2018 17: 33
          0
          so it’s true, but it means nothing needs to be done to improve it? well, you rely on tactics for use .. only the tactics without KAZ are worthless when ATGM works at a distance of at least 3 kilometers
          1. seos
            seos April 19 2018 19: 44
            +2
            Modernizing ATGMs to overcome the KAZ will cost several times less than installing a very expensive KAZ ... Let's say an ATGM is equipped with a warhead with a strike core and any KAZ equipment is coffins and wheels .....
          2. Per se.
            Per se. April 20 2018 05: 54
            +4
            Quote: Gennadich
            does it mean you don’t need to do anything to improve
            It is necessary, of course. But it will not be natural when a “heavy infantry fighting vehicle” is sent to someone in the head next to the tanks, and when such a “pregnant” infantry infantry infantry combat vehicle receives a gun-projectile from an enemy tank, or when the KAZ fires when its infantry rushes. This will be the "mass grave", and, here it is not a matter of armor or comfort, but of tactics, knowledge and skills in a war.
        2. nikoliski
          nikoliski April 19 2018 19: 56
          +13
          You are fundamentally wrong - the strikers covered in anti-cumulative grids withstood many hits from RPGs in Iraq, when they tested the Arena in Chechnya, then it shot down 18 grenades on approaching the tank! You can have thin armor, but if it is protected by an anti-cumulative screen + KAZ, then the car will become tenacious than making armor of 500 mm (which would have been pierced anyway) BMP 1 for today is a coffin that is not only afraid of RPGs, it is afraid of mines (all western cars now come with a trough-shaped bottom, to protect against land mines) in addition BMP 1 it is penetrated not only by any western small-caliber gun (all new western BMPs have circular protection from 14.5mm KPVT bullets, which incidentally penetrate armor no less than 30 mm BMP 2 gun), so that BMP1 can be flashed onboard from a regular RMB, I think nothing worth the box on which the soldiers ride on top, afraid to burn inside, this is zero, not a car, designed for the fact that "women still give birth" ...
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 April 20 2018 10: 35
            0
            Against the cumulative tandem grenades and missiles - a grid, trellis screens will not save a combat vehicle.
            1. nikoliski
              nikoliski April 20 2018 18: 32
              0
              Do you think that every barmaley in Ingushetia and Dagestan is walking around with us? The net completely saves itself from RPG 7 and that’s enough, by the way I read an interesting article, the person who fought really told, and so he was amazed at the effectiveness of the rubber screen (bulwark on the T72 tank), for the sake of interest, we fired at the burned tank, shooting on the screen, half of the grenades just bounced to the ground (the piece didn’t work poking into the soft rubber missed), and those that worked did pierce the screen, of course, but since it was at a distance from the main armor through penetration (with the exit of the jet inside the tank body) did not happen, so that's what I’m all about -If you will fight in a tank, I’m sure you yourself will additionally weigh the car with bags of sand at the halt, who knows these tens of centimeters of sand and is enough for the cumulative stream (which by the way does not like such heterogeneous media) not to break through the main armor.
    2. K.A.S.
      K.A.S. April 19 2018 08: 05
      +15
      This is actually a bmp. soldiers run out of it, turn into battle formation, and then the arena fires! Did you mean this when you said "think about the rest"?
      1. Dym71
        Dym71 April 19 2018 10: 52
        +2
        Quote: K.A.S.
        This is actually a bmp. soldiers run out of it, turn into battle formation, and then the arena fires!

        However, this fact does not prevent Jews from putting windbreakers on their infantry fighting vehicles. hi
        1. Aaron Zawi
          Aaron Zawi April 19 2018 11: 05
          +9
          Quote: Dym71

          However, this fact does not prevent Jews from putting windbreakers on their infantry fighting vehicles. hi

          We still do not have BMP. Only armored personnel carrier.
          1. jjj
            jjj April 19 2018 11: 13
            +9
            An infantry fighting vehicle is a combat unit around which the combat use of an infantry squad is built. This transport, and a mobile warehouse of personal belongings, and a heating point, and a firing point
            1. Separ DNR
              Separ DNR April 19 2018 16: 43
              +6
              Quote: jjj
              This is a transport, and a mobile warehouse of personal belongings

              Ow-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-z ... With our "economic" mechanical water and operators, the landing becomes a warehouse of their personal belongings wassat , well, and how the "chest of drawers" will put itself ... Then "+" or "-" his things laughing
          2. Dym71
            Dym71 April 19 2018 11: 34
            0
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            We still do not have BMP. Only armored personnel carrier.

            Thanks for the comment, otherwise I began to forget that Israel has the Defense Army - the military doctrine does not provide for the presence of infantry fighting vehicles?
          3. hohol95
            hohol95 April 19 2018 12: 05
            +1
            So they (armored personnel carriers - tracked or wheeled) perform only the TRANSPORT function for you and NEVER climb into serious fights?
            1. Aaron Zawi
              Aaron Zawi April 19 2018 12: 10
              +2
              Quote: hohol95
              So they (armored personnel carriers - tracked or wheeled) perform only the TRANSPORT function for you and NEVER climb into serious fights?

              In principle, do not climb. Although today, in connection with a sharp reduction in tank flames, there is talk of bringing armored personnel carriers into the infantry structure.
              1. hohol95
                hohol95 April 19 2018 12: 11
                +1
                And in what structure do you have them now? By themselves in the armored forces? hi
                1. Aaron Zawi
                  Aaron Zawi April 19 2018 12: 34
                  +3
                  Quote: hohol95
                  And in what structure do you have them now? By themselves in the armored forces? hi

                  Sorry, wrong. Meant BMP. An armored personnel carrier is an army workhorse.
                  1. hohol95
                    hohol95 April 19 2018 13: 24
                    +1
                    So your armored personnel carriers are full-fledged BMP! It’s just that someone decided once the enemies have BMPs, then we will only have armored personnel carriers! And they will perform the functions both for the BTR and the BMP ...
                    1. Blackgrifon
                      Blackgrifon April 20 2018 21: 23
                      0
                      Quote: hohol95
                      So your APCs are full-fledged BMP

                      But only Israel has an armored personnel carrier, because Despite their armor, they are not capable of supporting their infantry with fire.
          4. Per se.
            Per se. April 19 2018 12: 53
            +5
            Quote: Aron Zaavi
            We still do not have BMP
            In principle, the tank "Merkava" quite descends for the BMP, where everything is "in one bottle." The fact that there are no heavy infantry fighting vehicles in the IDF is quite reasonable. For the Russian army, it seems reasonable to have classic BMP (the best BMP-3) for maneuvering combat, marching throws and forcing water obstacles along the way, and using a heavy tank base. The tank base would include the tank itself, plus a heavy BTR (transport function, a BMO-T type vehicle), and a specialized fire support function, the BMPT. A heavy BMP is likely to be stupid, since the machine loses its main concept of mobility and versatility, and in specialization it will yield to a heavy armored personnel carrier and BMPT.
      2. nikoliski
        nikoliski April 19 2018 20: 26
        +1
        The arena should work when the landing is inside (most of the losses in Chechnya and Afghanistan during the shelling of columns) and when the infantry is landing it can be turned off, is it really so difficult for you ??
        1. K.A.S.
          K.A.S. April 19 2018 20: 56
          +6
          Yes, it's hard for me !!! I'm dumb and can just forget! And I’m also subtle and my skin is more expensive than paratroopers! And I’m not only dumb and vague, but also inventive !!! I can break it at all so that it doesn’t get rid of it at all! I have a house in the larks and a boar, and you will be raising my children (c) when you will be burned after disconnecting the arena? Here I am such a cowardly villain !!! As I put on my harness, I am dumb and dumb!
          It’s bold that you will cover my BMP from the outside hoping that the arena is off!
          And why do we need an arena if it is turned off anyway, and then when we are going into battle?
          But what if it works in a convoy next to a fuel truck? Or with the Urals with drugs?
          Your good idea is just not feasible in the form in which the BMP was conceived!
          1. nikoliski
            nikoliski April 19 2018 21: 06
            +1
            you save your fart at the couch of a warrior, you see how he was bombarded by a simple phrase (how your wife can live with you, you’re a neurotic, I’m telling you like an expert, don’t be offended)
          2. nikoliski
            nikoliski April 19 2018 21: 07
            0
            then, following your logic, you need to remove the afghanite from Armata urgently, and with the BMP3m arena, it will suddenly hurt someone inadvertently)
            1. K.A.S.
              K.A.S. April 19 2018 21: 38
              +5
              What does armata have to do with talking about BMPs? Dear, find out how BMP is applied and then write a tank about afghanit! Also suggest hanging active armor on this BMP!
              I'm not crazy, I have a certificate! (C)
              You have a strange reaction to the application problems I described !! If an arena is being hung up on a bmp, then it should be applied in a different way! Especially BMP 3 which thanks to armament is already a light tank!
              All buy by, I went on the couch to participate in other Internet battles !!!
              1. nikoliski
                nikoliski April 19 2018 21: 59
                0
                Well, you can do it when you want, quite reasonably and most importantly, without unnecessary emotions, plus I’m just for this message, I agree with him
      3. nikoliski
        nikoliski April 19 2018 23: 58
        +3
        By the way, the Arena, unlike the Israeli Trophy, does not have round-fire fire, it only works forward and to the side, that is, a dismounted infantry can quite move behind the BMP stern (as the special forces usually show in the movie), so all your insinuations about supposedly harm KAZ smacks of sabotage (you would have been shot in the old "good" times) Kaz Jews now even put on the Hummers, not at all worrying about supposedly some harm (if she knocks an RPG grenade on approaching a jeep, she will save the whole crew from the inevitable crematorium, the temperature and pressure inside the car will increase hundreds of times) so it’s better to risk putting someone under a stray fragment than the pictures of Grozny with burnt boxes with charred bodies protruding from them (and when the arena was tested in the first Chechen one, she shot down 18 grenades from an RPG!) and the t80 taking part in the test remained unscathed 18 carls! although theoretically even one could burn a car)
    3. Lex.
      Lex. April 19 2018 21: 33
      0
      So this kaz is worth more than this bmp
    4. Bar1
      Bar1 April 20 2018 08: 14
      0
      all this junk is just TARGETS on the battlefield, is it really not clear?
  2. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur April 19 2018 07: 52
    +2
    The BMP 1 in the initial version had anti-tank missiles for fighting tanks. And in a modernized version?
    1. vkl.47
      vkl.47 April 19 2018 08: 32
      0
      Perhaps put the module
    2. Owl
      Owl April 19 2018 09: 09
      0
      In the "landing" there is a place for the deployment of a portable launcher and ammunition of 4 missiles, on the modernized BMP-1 were placed PU "Fagot" 9P135 and 4 containers with missiles 9M111
      1. Seraphimamur
        Seraphimamur April 20 2018 08: 43
        0
        Is that better? In the initial version of the BMP 1 ATGM was located above the gun. Shot - left.
  3. K.A.S.
    K.A.S. April 19 2018 08: 13
    +8
    In remelting, the bulk is still junk! How much equipment was stamped in the USSR that now we don’t know where to put it! This is only the BMP and there are armored personnel carriers tanks, etc.! No wonder the USSR defeated itself!
    1. vkl.47
      vkl.47 April 19 2018 08: 45
      +3
      There are thousands of them in conservation. Judging by a good combat module, a car can get a second life. But with a module from BTR82a it’s more likely for marines to go. To infantry BMP2 with a module of carriages. It’s just that if you penetrate it, it’s necessary to change everything. she will not be able to swim. aerosol grenades are more likely to be protected from chunks
      1. Sailor
        Sailor April 19 2018 09: 23
        +2
        Reasonable arguments, let’s take a look. I believe that it is "running out" so they upgrade everything that is on the storage bases.
    2. Evdokim
      Evdokim April 19 2018 12: 13
      +7
      Quote: K.A.S.
      In remelting, the bulk is still junk!

      What for? You can podshamanit, and sell the Papuans in Papuans. On some, the motor resource has not been worked out at all, and it is just right for them to ride along the pampas. hi
    3. NIKNN
      NIKNN April 19 2018 14: 39
      +1
      Quote: K.A.S.
      In remelting, the bulk is still junk! How much equipment was stamped in the USSR that now we don’t know where to put it!

      Well, right away, they’ve already attached one and don’t cry ...
      Moreover, they offered to repair and restore it, and then send it to the museum. The specialists of Uralvagonzavod have already studied the design documentation and carried out part of the restoration work. In particular, the appearance of the chassis has been restored. In the foreseeable future, other elements of the machine will be restored.
    4. Evgeny Strygin
      Evgeny Strygin April 19 2018 16: 49
      +2
      it is surprising that someone believes in it.
    5. Doliva63
      Doliva63 April 19 2018 21: 48
      +7
      Quote: K.A.S.
      In remelting, the bulk is still junk! How much equipment was stamped in the USSR that now we don’t know where to put it! This is only the BMP and there are armored personnel carriers tanks, etc.! No wonder the USSR defeated itself!

      No need to smack nonsense. The union was economically killed in the early 60s, before the birth of the first BMP. And the illiterate continues to finish it until now, taking advantage of his successes.
  4. moreman78
    moreman78 April 19 2018 08: 41
    +11
    The top of insanity is to have many BMP-2s in storage, to give them to Syria, but for your own army to continue to operate and upgrade the BMP-1, and even with the not-so-successful combat module (without anti-tank systems)!
    1. alexmach
      alexmach April 19 2018 23: 55
      0
      That's about the combat module - you are fundamentally wrong - the module is a martial art piece. Well, yes, without anti-tank systems.
    2. nikoliski
      nikoliski April 20 2018 07: 18
      +5
      But Putin’s proposal to give the Ukrainians a hundred tons of T72 from the Crimea and the remaining ships (including a hydrograph and tugboats and a tanker) that would be useful to you yourself aren’t insanity? If the tanks are bad, you bury them on the tower near the border and let them serve like bunkers forever with us mismanagement fucking, there Jews they even remake trophies into something useful, you need to learn from them.
      1. Doliva63
        Doliva63 April 20 2018 20: 28
        +4
        Quote: nikoliski
        But Putin’s proposal to give the Ukrainians a hundred tons of T72 from the Crimea and the remaining ships (including a hydrograph and tugboats and a tanker) that would be useful to you yourself aren’t insanity? If the tanks are bad, you bury them on the tower near the border and let them serve like bunkers forever with us mismanagement fucking, there Jews they even remake trophies into something useful, you need to learn from them.

        Fixed tank firing points (NTOT) are not related to bunkers. And bunkers along the borders have not been built since the time of Karbyshev - he held in his hands the form of the DFS (long-term fortification), signed by him personally. There, in fact, a company strong point with its own medical unit, a source of water, etc.
        About the policy of organizing border defense: 30 units came to the fortified area T-72. Tankers UR (separate TB) were glad that they would change their 62 matches. An-no. The authorities ordered them to be placed in the NTOs, having removed the ISs from there. Like this.
  5. Izotovp
    Izotovp April 19 2018 08: 49
    +13
    Machines with outdated safety and mobility characteristics have a right to a second life, but not as first-line machines, but as machines not intended for direct combat. At its base it would be good to do MLRS, SAM, electronic warfare, self-propelled mortar.
  6. oldav
    oldav April 19 2018 09: 31
    +7
    Which is better: Have 10 bmp-1-2s that are cheap, unpretentious but really burn like matches or have one Bradley, Kurganets, etc. which are expensive to maintain and almost also vulnerable? What is the difference on what to approach the battlefield?
    1. astronom1973n
      astronom1973n April 19 2018 09: 47
      +6
      Quote: oldav
      Which is better: Have 10 bmp-1-2s that are cheap, unpretentious but really burn like matches or have one Bradley, Kurganets, etc. which are expensive to maintain and almost also vulnerable? What is the difference on what to approach the battlefield?

      Well, on the BMP-1,2 it’s a very small landing squad .... the overall one is cramped there. from the word very))))) they went upstairs above))) the main mechanic is sensible so that without jerking.
      1. oldav
        oldav April 19 2018 10: 14
        +3
        Well, 7-8 infantrymen will give me a ride, I think. It’s easy to jump from it. But you can’t jump from Bradley and the whole crew will most likely burn.
        1. astronom1973n
          astronom1973n April 19 2018 10: 23
          +2
          Quote: oldav
          Well, 7-8 infantrymen will give me a ride, I think. It’s easy to jump from it. But you can’t jump from Bradley and the whole crew will most likely burn.

          give a ride yes, it’s better outside))), from the inside in full outfit it’s uncomfortable for 7-8 people)))
        2. tchoni
          tchoni April 19 2018 14: 54
          +5
          Quote: oldav
          Well, 7-8 infantrymen will give me a ride, I think. It’s easy to jump from it. But you can’t jump from Bradley and the whole crew will most likely burn.

          Have you ever climbed out of the "mass grave of infantry"? - this, I tell you, is that balancing act. Especially in winter, when anryl squeezed into the upper hatch.
    2. tchoni
      tchoni April 19 2018 12: 44
      +8
      Quote: oldav
      Which is better: Have 10 bmp-1-2s that are cheap, unpretentious but really burn like matches or have one Bradley, Kurganets, etc. which are expensive to maintain and almost also vulnerable? What is the difference on what to approach the battlefield?

      Which is better, 10 infantry squads, burned down in full force along with boxes, or did one get to the dismounted zone?
    3. nikoliski
      nikoliski April 19 2018 20: 31
      +2
      If I’m a soldier and I have to choose what to go into battle, I’d better sit in the Israeli BMP converted from captured T55, the Jews managed to increase the protection to 600 mm equivalent to armor steel using additional elements + dynamic protection (and this is already a good protection against most RPGs from which most often died motorized rifle in Chechnya and Afghanistan)
    4. Glory1974
      Glory1974 April 19 2018 23: 17
      +1
      Which is better: Have 10 BMP-1-2 which are cheap, unpretentious but really burn like matches or have one Bradley, Kurganets, etc. which are expensive to maintain and almost also vulnerable?

      When they began to use infantry fighting vehicles, infantry losses were reduced by 2-3 times. From these numbers and we must dance. Everything else is TTX and economics.
  7. Vadim851
    Vadim851 April 19 2018 09: 56
    +8
    But with security, in general, nothing has changed. And there are more threats, the widespread prevalence of 12,7mm and large-caliber sniper rifles. Barret M82 or OSV-96 will flash this machine.
  8. Radikal
    Radikal April 19 2018 11: 24
    +9
    All this modernization looks strange (to say the least) against the background of reports that the main supplier of BMP-3, BMD-4 Kurganmashzavod is going to bankrupt because of loan debts. At the same time, it is said about the lack of demand for its products, meaning in the world market. And for our own army, we’ll come out to modernize the old stuff! That is, since modern designs cannot be promoted to foreign markets, but will we not supply these designs for our own army? It turns out so! Well, what then should all this be called? sad
    1. Azis
      Azis April 19 2018 12: 06
      +5
      I would like to believe that the bankruptcy of KMZ is a reason for the withdrawal of enterprises, incl. KMZ, out of control of the "Dutch" Machinery & Industrial Group NV But where will the curve lead ...
    2. ventel
      ventel April 19 2018 14: 12
      +1
      Peremoga! Indeed, it is so established in Russia.
  9. Izotovp
    Izotovp April 19 2018 12: 31
    0
    And as for the survivability of the crew, I’ll now express it, perhaps not very real ... though ... I hope that the next generation of armored vehicles of all types will already be equipped with catapults for the crew and the landing force.
  10. tchoni
    tchoni April 19 2018 12: 41
    +5
    The upgraded BMP-1 must maintain the full-time body, power plant and chassis. Thus, they will still have all-round bulletproof protection with enhanced frontal projection. UTD-20 diesel engine rated at 300 hp will maintain the desired mobility. The caterpillar undercarriage will provide overcoming of various obstacles, and in addition, will retain the functions of the propulsion device for moving on water.
    That is, in translation from the concentration camp, the Russian - as was the "mass grave of the infantry" - so it will remain ...
    It would be better if the production of something like BMOT from the old t-72 from storage bases or BTRT based on the same "stored" t-55/54 would be established by economists ....
    1. konstantin68
      konstantin68 April 19 2018 14: 53
      +5
      Well barmaley successfully use carts, so what? Weapons are tools, you need to be able to use them correctly. You can’t immediately take and build everything new, it doesn’t. And having many ready-made machines, they can be used depending on the situation. Example: evacuation of the wounded and equipment from the battlefield, transportation of guns (and not only) on the hook, instead of GAZ / Ural / ZIL, which are still very numerous in the army, etc. There will be much stronger Khiluks.
      1. tchoni
        tchoni April 20 2018 08: 25
        0
        Quote: konstantin68
        Well barmaley successfully use carts, so what? Weapon-tool, you must be able to use it correctly

        I have two sets of drma tools: one - retro-got from my great-grandfather, through my grandfather and father. Skoda and Solinger blades, very convenient. And there is a second set, personally bought and assembled. Part Chinese, but almost all electric. I know how to work well, and both. BUT! Let's say the furniture set for the bath is the second I do for a week or ten days, and the first will be busy for a month or even a half.
        Therefore, I work with Chinese electric. And I keep wooden-Czech-German as a memory and a heirloom.
        It is clear that if there is no screwdriver, then the passators will also pass for it, but why go out of steam ?! There was a time BMP1 was a high-tech. But, it was time for her to retire. For it no longer keeps up.
        PS
        Do you know what are the main advantages of "toyotakampfvagen" before the "mass grave of infantry" !?
        1) overhaul mileage (Toyota is 10 times (or even 100) higher).
        2) excellent commonality - everyone sees everything (from behi nothing is visible to everyone, including the commander - so everyone drives on armor)
        3) Toyota is very easy to get out of everyone.
        1. konstantin68
          konstantin68 April 20 2018 09: 05
          +3
          First: we cannot yet afford a "super-modern set of tools"
          Second: about the advantages of “cars”, someone deceived you, everything that you wrote would have rolled in peacetime, but not in conditions of warfare (heavy dust, dirt, abnormal operating conditions, lack of standard fuel and lubricants, etc., etc.) ) Regarding the speed of leaving the TC, so the detonation of a land mine is still faster.
          The advantage is a single-price issue, but! We already have them, that's what I'm talking about!
  11. Radikal
    Radikal April 19 2018 13: 28
    +3
    Quote: Azis
    I would like to believe that the bankruptcy of KMZ is a reason for the withdrawal of enterprises, incl. KMZ, out of control of the "Dutch" Machinery & Industrial Group NV But where will the curve lead ...

    That's it... .
  12. sib.ataman
    sib.ataman April 19 2018 15: 49
    +1
    It’s clear that it’s a pity to leave (too many of them are in the troops and at the bases), and in the form as it is already old. Chose Wed arithmetic. But such modernization is rather weak. In Syria, BMP-1 are still fighting in all, so our MO decided to choose the simplest and cheapest option. But as people say, simplicity is sometimes worse than cheating! In Chechnya, they were fired as matches in the greenhouse and in the headquarters of the RPG, which is why they are considered coffins. Without additional protection, they will remain coffins.
    1. CRP
      CRP April 19 2018 17: 13
      0
      Quote: sib.ataman
      Without additional protection, they will remain coffins.

      Tank dangerous infantry will carry as many anti-tank weapons as needed - 5-10-20 rounds, it doesn’t matter. Since it is not expensive. And yet tanks in the stern are worse to come up with. The BMP played its role as a scarecrow for NATO, as did the rest of the tank armada, but no more.
  13. Monarchist
    Monarchist April 19 2018 17: 05
    0
    Quote: tchoni
    Quote: oldav
    Well, 7-8 infantrymen will give me a ride, I think. It’s easy to jump from it. But you can’t jump from Bradley and the whole crew will most likely burn.

    Have you ever climbed out of the "mass grave of infantry"? - this, I tell you, is that balancing act. Especially in winter, when anryl squeezed into the upper hatch.

    Then you need to export open APCs, as in WWII, to immediately jump out
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski April 20 2018 07: 48
      0
      It’s cool to come up with an open top armored personnel carrier like a convertible, so that with one mortar mine all at once so that they won’t suffer for a long time) it’s better for me to ride a bike, it’s safer in any case than on such a “convertible”
  14. Gennadich
    Gennadich April 19 2018 17: 31
    +2
    it’s a coffin .. they said right here, without KAZ this modernization is like a manicure to the dead
  15. Glory1974
    Glory1974 April 19 2018 23: 14
    +2
    According to statistics of combat losses, if an infantry fighting vehicle is destroyed, then in 45% of cases the crew dies. If an APC is destroyed, the crew dies in 15% of cases. Therefore, I believe that the decision to put the 30 mm gun on an armored personnel carrier is correct, logically justified. But to revive the BMP, it doesn’t give a damn about the soldier’s lives for the sake of profit. I am definitely against, unfortunately, those in power know the correct answer, but outweigh the money.
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski April 19 2018 23: 20
      -1
      all that you wrote is true, BUT only with a mine explosion (wheeled armored personnel carriers when wheels are wider than the body suffer less from a mine than tracked vehicles) otherwise (penetration by an RPG grenade, aerial bomb falling on a car, etc., survival does not vary much)
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 19 2018 23: 32
        0
        the rest (penetration by a grenade from an RPG, the fall of an air bomb on a car and other things, the survival rate does not vary much)

        I gave statistics that do not depend on the way the machine is hit. Therefore, draw conclusions. If your company went into battle on an armored personnel carrier, 10 people will die from the 12 vehicles destroyed in the battle. If you destroy 10 BMPs, 36 people will die.
        1. nikoliski
          nikoliski April 19 2018 23: 48
          +1
          This is nonsense - armored personnel carriers, due to weaker armor, should not attack at all, this is only a means of transportation, I see that you are persisting in yours, believe the data that you brought about mines (I read about this a long time ago)
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 April 20 2018 11: 05
            0
            the data that you brought about mines

            You are mistaken. These are statistics of the general losses.
            Armored personnel carriers due to weaker armor should not attack at all, this is only a means of transportation

            Everyone thought that the BMP better protects than the APCs, until they got acquainted with the statistics. losses. And about the battle I said conditionally. An unsuppressed defense cannot be attacked at all, even on tanks. If terminology is so important to you, let's call it "in the process of completing combat missions"
        2. konstantin68
          konstantin68 April 20 2018 09: 14
          +2
          Quote: glory1974
          If your company went into battle on an armored personnel carrier,

          That's why the losses are stupid.
          1. Glory1974
            Glory1974 April 20 2018 11: 07
            0
            That's why the losses are stupid.

            casualties can be stupid if the tanks are not used correctly. And if you think that in the process of hostilities the infantry is running ahead and hiding the APCs in the rear, then you are mistaken.
            1. konstantin68
              konstantin68 April 20 2018 14: 09
              0
              This is exactly what I think and not only think. Had the honor, so to speak, "run ahead of the BMP"
        3. Servisinzhener
          Servisinzhener April 20 2018 13: 39
          0
          I correctly understand that you mean that in combat the squad is always inside the armored personnel carrier or infantry fighting vehicle?
      2. konstantin68
        konstantin68 April 20 2018 09: 17
        0
        Exactly. It used to happen that an armored personnel carrier "just" got a wheel off and it reached 7mi. Behi is worse here.
    2. mkpda
      mkpda April 23 2018 15: 50
      +1
      The situation is somewhat different. There is a choice - to go into battle on their own or with the support of BMP-1/2 and their modernized versions. It was in the USSR that there were large reserves of equipment for mobilizing and making up for losses. Now there is no such abundance, if modern technology is knocked out, we will wait for its arrival from industry. I'm afraid that 1941 will seem like a minor problem.
    3. Conserp
      Conserp April 23 2018 18: 35
      0
      Quote: glory1974
      According to statistics of combat losses, if an IFV is destroyed, then in 45% of cases the crew dies. If an APC is destroyed, the crew dies in 15% of cases.

      According to statistics, a boxer during the match many times gets in the face, and a chess player - not once.
      Therefore, a chess player blocks blows steeper than any boxer. Yes?

      In statistics, the most important thing is how the sample was formed. Without it, it’s like sucking from a finger.
      1. Glory1974
        Glory1974 April 24 2018 19: 45
        0
        In statistics, the most important thing is how the sample was formed.

        do not repeat thoughtlessly hackneyed stamps.
        if BMP is destroyed, then in 45% of cases the crew dies. If an APC is destroyed, the crew dies in 15% of cases

        read carefully. Absolute numbers are given to you. And the sample is what the previous commentators tried to tell about: under what conditions, from what weapon, etc.
        Therefore, a chess player blocks blows steeper than any boxer. Yes?

        Have fun! laughing You would have compared a member with a finger compared.
        1. Conserp
          Conserp April 24 2018 23: 27
          0
          Quote: glory1974
          You would have compared a member with a finger compared.

          Dear friend, it is you who do it.

          Quote: glory1974
          You are given absolute numbers

          Which without context is worthless.

          Because you can destroy one BMP with a nuclear bomb, and destroy one APC with a Finnish log trap. And also get the "statistics".
  16. tank66
    tank66 April 20 2018 11: 05
    0
    Damn. I can’t keep silent. There is such a gorge Lur-Koch. Introductory: to pick up the wounded and prisoners at the entrance. On foot - it's a shitty - mine AP, in general a lot. They stuck on the tank, and there is such a scattering / 70 meters wide / pebbles from a half-refrigerator. There were no sappers, the behha crawled. I never took off my shoes, only from the stern a container of water / not full-time / fell off. Here I started to respect the designers. Bather would rest there. And a tablet / MTLB / too .. I don’t want to carry meat in it all the time, but, damn it, cling to it with Kevlar, titanium polystyrene foam, ceramic gratings, “tadpoles” know what to “small” I didn’t take the caliber - and let them ride like a chassis for anything. Right now, just make the BMP case the same as in the USSR, from the budget of the Lyamov 30 ssss ... sow it. Even the Americans, over there, take out their abrasives, sandblast, and stuff them with new stuffing ..
    1. konstantin68
      konstantin68 April 20 2018 14: 12
      0
      To understand this, you need to participate.
  17. 52
    52 April 21 2018 11: 06
    0
    What can be modernized in this scam? Only to the dump!
  18. Praetorian4
    Praetorian4 April 21 2018 18: 49
    +2
    Then take it to Kamaz on May 9th.
  19. rennim166
    rennim166 April 23 2018 17: 11
    0
    If only they brought to the state of BMP-1D, it would be happiness.
  20. Sancho_SP
    Sancho_SP 13 May 2018 11: 10
    0
    Something I didn’t understand. And why the older BMP-1, if there are many BMP-2 in storage? Or BMP-2 has already ended, that is, all upgraded?
  21. onix757
    onix757 13 May 2018 11: 25
    0
    An armored vehicle designed to undergo various tests was built in 1974 by the Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant

    In 2013, the experienced “Object 765” changed its owner.

    The Chelyabinsk plant is in ruins, the Kurganmash plant is approaching the same state, but everything else is fine. We continue to implement the cunning plan.