Military Review

Why created the myth of the "Mongol" invasion

373
The myth of the "Mongol" invasion and the "Mongol" yoke created to hide the truth about the true stories Russia.


The degeneration of the Russian boyar-princely “elite” led to the first confusion - “baptism” (an attempt at conceptual and ideological subordination of the Eastern Roman Empire, and then Rome), civil war of “Christians” with “pagans”, feudal fragmentation and disintegration of the empire Rurik. Princely feuds led to a series of internecine wars, which seriously weakened Russia.

It is worth noting that the internecine wars in Russia were distinguished by extreme severity. Writers love to show the horrors of the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion and yoke, but the Russians were slaughtered with the Russians with no less bitterness and hatred. The Rus of Kiev, Galich, Polotsk, Novgorod, Suzdal and Vladimir were killed, robbed, taken to full as the Mongols would do later. There were no “discounts” on belonging to the same tribe and faith.

The collective West, having received a powerful rebuff from the Muslim world in the Middle East, decided to continue the “drang nah Osten” movement. Knights of the Order are being transferred to the East - powerful Catholic spiritual and military organizations that subordinated Rome to the tribes and peoples with fire and sword. In 1202, the Order of the Sword-bearers was founded in Riga, in 1237, it was transformed into the Livonian Order. The Teutonic Order was also thrown against Prussia, the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Russian and other Russian lands.

Obviously, fragmented Russia would be a victim of the collective West. It would be captured and "digested" in parts. The technique has already been tested during the capture and assimilation of Northern and Central Europe. Severe onslaught, total war, the baptism of "fire and sword." Creating castles, fortresses, strong points of occupation. The strategy of "divide, control and conquer," when some tribes of one language used against others. Destruction of recalcitrant nobility, domestication and baptism of the part that turned out to be ready for “cultural cooperation”, creation and upbringing of new nobility. But the people gradually, for tens and hundreds of years, lose their native traditions, culture, language. There are new “Germans” who have lost touch with their origins, native culture and language. Thus, Rome and knightly orders subordinated and “digested” the Slavic Pomerania (Pomerania), Prussia - Porussia, entrenched in the Baltic States (Livonia). The same fate awaited the Russian lands and the Russian people as part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and Russia, where the Russian element originally prevailed. This Russian state was eventually subordinated to Poland and Rome, that is, to the West. Pskov, Novgorod, Smolensk, Tver and other Russian lands and cities would inevitably follow this path. Separately, sooner or later, their resistance was broken, the recalcitrant, lush nobility was destroyed, the “flexible” nobility were bribed or persuaded.

Why created the myth of the "Mongol" invasion

Battle of Legnica. Miniature XIV century.

Russia was saved by an invasion from the East - the East-Siberian core of the super-ethnos Rus. As previously noted more than once, there was no “Mongol” in Russia (). This is a myth - created in the Vatican in order to distort the true story. In the West, they do not want to recognize the strategic defeat of the Russian-Horde Empire. Russia and the Horde stopped the centuries-long offensive of the West - “the onslaught to the East”. As a result, the collective West was able for some time to subjugate only West Russian lands (it became part of Hungary, Poland, and Lithuania), but could not go any further. For centuries, bloody and brutal wars were raging, but the West could not break into Asia through Russian territory.

Rusas fought with the Rus. Two passionary nuclei of the super-ethnos Rus, heirs of the Great Scythia. No "Mongols" conquered China, they did not reach the Caucasus, Persia, the Northern Black Sea region and Russia. Khalkhu, Oirat - self-name, ethnonym of autochthons (indigenous people) of Mongolia, real anthropological Mongoloids, then were a poor nomadic community. They were at a low stage of development - hunters and primitive shepherds, like part of the Indian tribes of North America. Shepherds and hunters who were at a primitive primitive communal level, under no circumstances could create a powerful military power and even more so the continental empire "from sea to sea". The real Mongols had neither a production, nor a military, or a state base for the creation of a first-class military power.

In this way, The myth of the “Mongols from Mongolia,” who created one of the greatest world empires in the history of mankind, is a deception and the greatest historical and informational sabotage of Rome and the West as a whole against Russia-Russia. The masters of the West deliberately distort and rewrite in their interests the true history of mankind. And this is done all the time, it’s enough to remember how literally before our eyes they distort the history of the Second and Great Patriotic Wars. Where, from the Russian (Soviet) soldiers, the liberators have already been converted into “invaders and rapists” who allegedly captured a significant part of Europe and “overpowered” all German women. Communism and Nazism, Hitler and Stalin were put on a par. Moreover, they already speak of Hitler, who “defended” Europe from the Bolshevik, red hordes of Stalin. And Europe was allegedly liberated by England and the United States, who defeated Hitler Germany.

The myth of the "Mongol" invasion and the "Mongol" yoke created to hide the truth about the true history of Russia, the heiress of the thousand-year northern tradition of Hyberborea and Great Scythia. The Russians were supposedly a “wild” tribe, which the German-Scandinavian Vikings and European Christian missionaries led to the “civilization”. A "Mongol" invasion threw Russia into the "darkness of ages", slowed down its development for several centuries, while the Russians were "slaves" of the Golden Horde khans. At the same time, the Russians adopted from the "Mongols" the principles of government and organization, "slave psychology". All this separated Russia from Western Europe, led to "backwardness."

In reality, the war brought together two parts of the former Great Scythia — North-Eastern Russia and the Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world. Anthropological studies of burial grounds during the period of the “Mongolian” invasion and dominion show the complete absence of the Mongoloid element in Russia. Invasion, battles, storming cities - all this was. There was tribute tithing, new hikes, fires and looting. But there was no "Mongol" army and the empire of the "Mongols". Since in the forest-steppe zone of Eurasia, including lands from the Northern Black Sea region, the North Caucasus, from the Dnieper, the Don and the Volga to the Altai and the Sayans, for thousands of years there is no real power, no people, except for the late Russ Siberians and the powerful Scythian-Siberian world (the heir the traditions of the Aryans and Great Scythia, which stopped the invasion of the Persian armies of the kings Darius and Cyrus) did not exist. It was a really powerful force - with a multi-thousand-year cultural, state, industrial and military tradition. Hundreds of generations united by language, traditions, united pagan faith. Only the Rus of the Scythian-Siberian world could create a huge continental empire, again unite the northern civilization from the borders of China to the Dnieper.

The Northern Caucasians more than once created kingdoms in China, the ruling dynasties, elites, guards, and bureaucrats gave the Celestial Empire to China. But it must be remembered that one or two generations and Russ in China became Chinese. Mongoloid signs of dominant. A similar story happened in the XX century. Many thousands of Russians fled during the Revolution and the Civil War in China. Harbin was a Russian city. But quite a bit of time passed, in historical terms, and only large gravestones and several cultural and historical monuments remained from the large Russian community. At the same time the Russians were not exterminated. Just their children and grandchildren became Chinese. Another interesting example is India. There, the arias, who came from the territory of modern Russia, and were carriers of the northern tradition common to us, created closed caste-varna and in many ways were able to preserve and conserve themselves. It is not surprising that Hindus from modern higher castes are brahman priests and Kshatriya warriors who are genetically and anthropologically the same Russ as the Russians. And the faith and traditions of the Hindus are the same as those of the 4 Aryan Rus thousands of years ago, or the Rus of the times of Oleg the Wise and Svyatoslav (like the cremation rite).

In a campaign to the west, the Scythian-Siberian Russes broke and subjugated their relatives in Central Asia, which was also previously part of Great Scythia, and although the local population was already Islamized, the Turkic and Mongoloid element had not yet become predominant. Also Tatars of the Urals and the Volga region, Alans and Polovtsians were brought into the army (they were also fragments of Great Scythia and superethnos). And then the Tatars were still pagans, and the Turkic group not long ago separated from the common language family and had almost no Mongoloid admixture (unlike the Crimean Tatars). Thus, the "Tatar-Mongol" invasion was an invasion of Scythian-Siberian pagan Rus, who dragged Tatar pagans, Polovtsy, Alans, inhabitants of Central Asia (descendants of Scythian Rus) into their campaign. So it was the war of the pagan Russes of Asia with the Christian Christians of the fragmented Vladimir-Suzdal and Kievan Rus. The war of two passionary nuclei of the super ethnic group of the Rus and the Russian civilization, the heiress of the great northern tradition of Great Scythia. Tales of the "Mongols" were composed by the enemies of the Russian superethnos and Russia. It was the Scythian-Siberian Rus that created the great "Mongol" empire, the Russian-Horde empire.

The Horde Empire (from the Russian word “clan”) began to rebirth and degrade from the ever-increasing and total Islamization, and the influx of a huge number of Arabs into the Golden (White) Horde. Islamization has become the main cause of intraelite strife and the collapse of the empire. The history of the Horde Empire was rewritten in their own interests by Muslim and Catholic authors. The Rusas of Ryazan and Novgorod and the Horde ruses had a common anthropological, cultural and linguistic background, and so were part of a single super-ethnos and a single northern tradition-civilization. At first, they were distinguished by their faith and way of life, as well as by the difference in socio-political development: the Rus Christian Christians overcame the tribal stage of development, had “developed” feudalism; The Horde Ruses were at the stage of a clan, “military” democracy. Therefore, later, when the center of control shifted to Moscow, the majority of the Horde people easily became Russian, not introducing any “Mongolian” signs to the Russian people. At the same time, the Islamization of the Hordes and Tatars led to the division of the superethnos, it cut off the Islamized Eurasian part from it, except for those “Tatars” who accepted Orthodoxy by many thousands and transferred to the service of the Moscow sovereign.

Naturally, in Rome and in the West, they tried to distort and hide the true history of the Russian superethnos and the Russian-Horde empire, the so-called "Tartaria", which was subordinate to most of the continent. In the West, they invented the “Mongol” invasion and the “Mongol” empire. The historians of the Romanovs (and the Germans were the first to write the official “history of Russia”) supported this myth, since westernized Petersburg sought to join the family of “enlightened and civilized” Europe and did not want to continue the tradition of the northern Eurasian empire and the Horde, Tartaria. The millennial history of the Russian civilization and the super-ethnos of the Rus tried to bury. However, she left so many traces that the truth immediately began to make its way. Already Lomonosov, Tatishchev, Lyubavsky, Ilovaisky and many other researchers found that the history of the Rus-Russians does not correspond to the generally accepted "classical" version.

Among the traces of the ancient empire, the fact that up to the XVI - XVII centuries, and sometimes in the XVIII century, the whole territory of continental Eurasia in Western Europe was called the Great Scythia (Sarmatia) by old memory, which were synonymous with the names "Great Tartary" and Russia . Historians of the time identified the ancient Scythians, Sarmatians and modern Russians, considering that the whole steppe Eurasia, as before, was inhabited by one people. In the Golden and other horde states that occupied in the XIII - XVI centuries. the entire steppe zone of the East European Plain, Central Asia and southern Siberia was based on the Scythian-Sarmatian-Alan-Rus population. So considered not only the authors, who used written sources, but also travelers, who themselves saw "Great Scythia - Tartaria".

Julius Pomponius Lat, a 15th-century Roman humanist, traveled to Scythia; visited Poland, at the Dnieper, at the mouth of the Don, described the customs and customs of the "Scythians". He mentioned Russian braga, honey, how the "Scythians", sitting at oak tables, proclaim toasts in honor of the guests, wrote down several "Scythian" words that turned out to be Slavic. He believed that "Scythia" stretches far to the east and borders India, he wrote about the "Khan of Asian Scythians". In the eyes of the author, the Scythians look Russian and the territory of their settlement includes not only the lands of the Russian-Lithuanian and Moscow states, but also others that are ruled by the khans and extend far to the east. And from the sources of the XIV - XVI centuries. we can learn that Siberia was then inhabited not by “Mongol-Tatars”, but by white people, remarkably similar to the ancient Scythians and modern Russians.

It is also worth remembering that the names Chemuchin (Temuchin), Batu, Berkei, Sebedi-Subudi, Guess, Mamai, Chagat (d) ai, Boro (n) Dai, etc. - these are not “Mongolian” names. These are also the names of the Rus superethnos, only not Orthodox, but pagan. Most of the Horde subjects were Rus-Russians. The fierce civil wars between the Rus were an ordinary thing for those times. Moscow waged war with the Russians of Ryazan, Tver, Novgorod and the Horde for the unification of the country. Reality is tragic, more tragic than it is customary to imagine. There were no horrible "Mongols". Russian fought with Russian. So, Tatar Murzas and Khans with many thousands of detachments constantly transferred to the service of the great princes of Vladimir and Moscow, Russian-Lithuanian. These transitions were accompanied by marriage unions and the inclusion of the Russian state in the elite. As a result, the Moscow aristocracy was formed from "Tatar" by a third. There was integration into the new state of the once united empire. At the same time, there are no signs of "Mongoloid" among the Russian people and the Moscow aristocracy.

In the middle of the XIV century. Horde elite converted to Islam. At the same time, the majority of the population of the hordes was preserved in the pagan tradition. In particular, the “Tale of Mamayev’s Battle”, a Russian written monument of the 15th century, mentions gods worshiped by “Tatars”. Among them are Perun and Horse. Islam has not yet become the dominant religion. Islamization of the Horde led to a series of brutal internecine war, the collapse of the empire. Moscow has become a new center of attraction for civilization and superethnos. For a half century, this new center was able to restore the main core of the empire. The first Russian tsar-emperor was Ivan the Terrible, heir to the ancient empire of Rurikovich and the Russian-Horde empire. During his reign, Rus turned to the south - to the Caucasus and the Caspian Sea, and to the southeast, to Kazan and Siberia. With one blow they returned all the Volga region, opened the way beyond the Urals and began to reunite with Siberia. The indigenous population of the great steppe, the descendants of the ancient Scythian-Sarmatian-Polovtsy- "Mongols", returned under the authority of their national center. At the same time, the “Scythians” - “Cossacks” simultaneously became the strike avant-garde of Russian civilization and superethnos, quickly returning and mastering the ancestral lands of the northern civilization - Eurasia.

Thus, under Ivan Vasilyevich the Terrible, the core of the “Great Scythia”, the Russian Empire, was restored. The same country and people knew and the ancient authors. It stretched from the Black (Russian) and Baltic seas to the borders of Japan, China and India. That is, Russia in the XVI - XIX centuries. she did not conquer the lands of others, but returned her own. The West, however, ran into powerful resistance from Russia and the Horde, and then the Russian kingdom, led by Moscow, was forced to seek new lands for conquest and plunder. So began the "Great geographical discoveries."
Author:
Articles from this series:
How did Western expansion begin?
373 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Uncle Vanya Susanin
    Uncle Vanya Susanin April 17 2018 05: 46
    +57
    Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?
    1. Cxnumx
      Cxnumx April 17 2018 06: 05
      +14
      Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

      baaaablo - pay for popular articles (with tons of comments and views). I don’t know whether the rate is fixed here or not, but the topic is popular and you can still raise a lot of dough on it hi
      1. Korsar4
        Korsar4 April 17 2018 07: 16
        +23
        More and more I begin to lean toward this version. And, the funny thing is, the system works.
        1. Proxima
          Proxima April 17 2018 10: 07
          +18
          Quote: Korsar4
          More and more I begin to lean toward this version. And, the funny thing is, the system works.

          There was no Horde yoke Well, then what happened? belay
          L.N. Gumilev, putting forward a thesis about "close union" of Russia and the Golden Horde in the second half of the XIII century, willingly or not, but rather rather than willingly, imposes on the general reader false ideas about the very, perhaps, difficult half-century in the history of the Russian people.
          Let's see what it was like the second half of the XIII century, for northeastern Russia, for example, the victim of the first campaign of the horde. Destroyed cities, burned villages, halved population. Teenagers, women and old people build houses, plow and reap, pulling out all the veins from themselves in order to survive and earn a tribute to the prince and the Horde. True, refugees returned from the forests, surviving families moved from dangerous steppe places. The Grand Duke of Vladimir Andrei Yaroslavich, a proud and courageous man, saying that "the best is to flee to foreign land rather than be friends and serve the Tatars", trying to conclude an anti-Horde alliance with Daniil Galitsky. Someone reported to the Golden Horde. And so it began!
          1254 year. The battle of Daniel Galitsky with the army of Kuremsa.

          1258 year. On the borders of the Principality of Galicia, a huge army appears, led by Burundi himself, who forces Daniel to destroy the fortresses and makes him a constant tributary of the Horde.

          1273 year. The troops of the Golden Horde attack the Novgorod lands twice. The ruin of Vologda, Bezhitsa and their environs.

          1275 year. The defeat of the southeastern outskirts of Russia, the Kursk region. "Tatar is great evil and great dirtyness and vexation of Christian crossroads, by volost, villages, grabis yards, horses and cattle, and the property have been taken away, and where they have met and who have flogged the naked to let go."

          1278 year. "The same summer, Tatarova came to Ryazan, and there was a lot of evil, making up for it, and having gone home."

          1281 year. The calendar middle of "symbiosis", "close union", the end of which our historian defines the year 1312 - we will still remember about this date ... A terrible middle! "Tatarova scattered throughout the earth ... and devastated all." Numerous Golden Horde troops under the command of Kovgady and Alchidai [Aleday] destroyed Murom and Pereyaslavl, plundered the surroundings of Suzdal, Rostov, Vladimir, Yuryev-Polsky, Tver, Torzhok, part of Novgorod villages.

          1282 year. A new devastating raid on Vladimir and Pereyaslav lands. "He came, a lot of evil was in the Suzdal land, and more likely than before you had done in the past summer."

          1283 year. The Vorgol, Rylsk and Lipetsk principalities, the cities of Kursk and Vorgol were devastated and plundered by the Horde army.

          1285 year. "Prince Eltorai of Ordinsk, Temirev son, come with your army to Ryazan, and the war of Ryazan, Murom, Mordva, and a lot of evil make up."

          1293 year. The worst year of the second half of the 6801th century. Behind the brief chronicle line “in the summer of 14, Duden came to Russia and captured XNUMX and later”, there is, in fact, a new invasion, which, perhaps, was not inferior to the controversy during the invasion of Batu Subudai, because Duden was in no hurry, and the chronicler boldly makes this comparison, because the enemies of the "village and volosts and monasteries" and "the whole earth are empty I’m done," people are not only from cities and villages, but even "from the forests of the know" to full. Were devastated by Murom, Moscow, Kolomna, Vladimir, Suzdal, Yuriev, Pereyaslavl, Mozhaisk, Volok, Dmitrov, Uglich-Pole.

          ..Here is such an "equal partnership" was established in Russia in the second half of the XIII century! Five attacks of the Golden Horde - 1252, 1258, 1281, 1282, 1293 - were of the nature of real invasions. V.V. Kargalov, a historian known for his meticulous search for truth, testifies: "Vladimir and Suzdal lands devastated five times during this time ... Tatars" Novgorod volosts "were smashed four times, principalities on the southern outskirts seven times (Kursk, Ryazan, Murom) , twice - Tver lands ... Pereyaslavl-Zalessky Tatars destroyed four times (in 1252, 1281, 1282, 1293), Murom - three times, Suzdal - three times, Ryazan - three times, Vladimir - at least two times (and even three times the Tatars devastated its surroundings) "
          Or someone wants to say that all this was not?
          So I brought you more moderate Gumilyov. What the newly-born "historians" write - scumbags - is incomprehensible to the mind! fool
          1. andrew42
            andrew42 April 17 2018 11: 05
            +21
            They forgot to write about the Bogolyubsky coalition and about the looting of Kiev. They also forgot about Yaroslav the Wise, and about the same Kiev, "having entered Novgorod and the fire of the church." Also were the Mongols? Oh yes, Bogolyubsky is a Mongol by reconstruction of his physiognomy! Agent Swallow Temujina.
            1. Proxima
              Proxima April 17 2018 11: 44
              +4
              Quote: andrew42
              They forgot to write about the Bogolyubsky coalition and about the looting of Kiev. They also forgot about Yaroslav the Wise, and about the same Kiev, "having entered Novgorod and the fire of the church." Also were the Mongols? Oh yes, Bogolyubsky is a Mongol by reconstruction of his physiognomy! Agent Swallow Temujina.

              The fact that the Russian civil strife is not better than the Horde raids - I do not argue. I’m talking about something else, there is a “firm opinion” that Batu conquered Russia and levied a tribute; Above, I mentioned that the horde did just zap 50 years after the "unification of the Lands" took place. hi
              1. Khazarin
                Khazarin April 17 2018 21: 24
                +18
                When reading chronicle lists (and they are just such, for there are no chronicles older than the XIV century), one must still remember one nuance. The annals themselves wrote and the lists were made with them, people deeply "party", or monastic monks! But a priori they could not write otherwise than in the spirit of "party discipline." This applies to PVL, and events with the Horde. In the spears, the ethnicity of the Horde is somehow omitted, from the word in general, there are mentions of the type - "go into the horde, come from the horde." Reading the descriptions of the Horde from M. Polo, you come to the conclusion that either he was not there, or the Horde was not correct!
                However, it should be taken into account that the current concepts of ethnic relations are completely unsuitable for understanding the ethnic groups of that time, as well as social relations between the arrogant and common people. We absolutely do not understand the sacredness of origin and generosity. And as for the amanatism (captivity) of that time, then there is absolutely nothing in common!
                As for the listed dates of the campaigns, they are certainly true, but the narrator gives only one side of the interpretation, that is his own, and such movements of the military administration, for no reason (no matter how objective or not objective) are! Moreover, the “invasion” is nothing more than a redistribution of property among the nobility of that time (the ethnic component of antagonism will appear several centuries later), simply could not go smoothly!
            2. ver_
              ver_ 9 May 2018 04: 34
              +3
              ... it’s a matter of time when Ulyanov = Blank * bit off * a piece of territory from China in 1920 and named it Mongolia — a nation appeared, Mongolian nationality .. Already up to stupefaction .. - they have known about the Chinese for hundreds of years. They belong to the Mongoloid race .., for some reason .. LUNCH - CAMOMILE .., conclusion - the race came up after 1920 .. Well, everywhere * inherited * God's chosen ..
          2. Monarchist
            Monarchist April 17 2018 15: 25
            +10
            Proxima, one must read: "the same summer the hyperbereans came" for the Mongols then only knew how to twist their horses tails.
          3. Setrac
            Setrac April 19 2018 01: 14
            +6
            Quote: Proxima
            Or someone wants to say that all this was not?

            In fact, if we discard all alternative husks, the claims are not to the “yoke” itself, but to its Mongol, nomadic component.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator April 23 2018 01: 17
              +3
              Quote: Setrac
              In fact, if we discard all alternative husks, the claims are not to the “yoke” itself, but to its Mongol, nomadic component.

              No, the claim is specifically to the very YGO as a POLITICAL vassalet.
          4. evgeny68
            evgeny68 April 22 2018 18: 51
            +4
            I will answer you with the same Gumilev that the internecine wars between the Russian princes were more bloody and lasted for centuries than the raids of the Mongol Tatar detachments. Gumilyov does not write about equal partnership; Gumilyov does not have such. Equal partners do not pay tribute.
            1. co-creator
              co-creator April 23 2018 00: 25
              +4
              Quote: evgeny68
              Equal partners do not pay tribute.

              Peter I PAYED KRYMCHAM EXIT They had equal rights, or overlord-vassal?
            2. 72jora72
              72jora72 April 23 2018 03: 27
              +5
              I will answer you with the same Gumilev that the internecine wars between the Russian princes were more bloody and lasted for centuries than the raids of the Mongol Tatar detachments. Gumilyov does not write about equal partnership; Gumilyov does not have such. Equal partners do not pay tribute.
              Why are you all the storyteller Gumilyov everywhere bustle.
              1. evgeny68
                evgeny68 April 27 2018 21: 20
                +3
                And you, as I understand it, are a specialist larger than Gumilyov. Us your works to read, not a storyteller. And they pop x ... well ...., this expression is appropriate in this context.
              2. evgeny68
                evgeny68 April 27 2018 21: 27
                +3
                And yet, in your opinion, when passing the candidate minimum, it is precisely Gumilyov’s work Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe that is included in the list of compulsory literature, just like Kant, Castaneda, Solonevich or these are also storytellers and poke them about anything.
              3. xtur
                xtur 31 May 2018 14: 01
                +2
                > storyteller Gumilyov

                M. Weber, a classic of sociology, has ideas that completely intersect with the main ideas of L. Gumilyov, moreover, these ideas are parental for the ideas of L. Gumilyov.
                These ideas are fully recognized in the West, no one refuses them. The ideas of L. Gumilyov is just a special case of the ideas of M. Weber - passionarity L. Gumilyova corresponds charisma M. Weber, receiving information from the host ecosystem, M. Weber has receiving irrational information from the outside of a person - without any specification, just from the outside.
                Compared with the concept of M. Weber, the concept of L. Gumilyov is clearer and more logical.

                so you druk, it’s better not to participate in a dispute in which you do not understand anything
          5. co-creator
            co-creator April 23 2018 01: 12
            +12
            Quote: Proxima
            Or someone wants to say that all this was not?

            Have you ever read about what you wrote? It means they burned everyone, filled everyone, and then who remained? You can generally assume that the chronicler is simply frankly a liar, or as usual this exaggerates reality? I think that you can not) you think. that he personally was in all these cities and saw this ruin, or is he writing from someone’s words?
            You can read how the Russian princes took the city of their relatives and how they ruined their lands. monasteries, etc. everything is like a carbon copy.
            Quote: Proxima
            ..Here is such an "equal partnership" was established in Russia in the second half of the XIII century!

            Equality is not equality, but Russia has never been a vassal of the Horde. There is no evidence for this except chronicles which are not confirmed by anything and are late lists. But there are curious facts.
            1. There was an Orthodox diocese in the Horde on an ongoing basis, a large number of Russians lived there. This suggests that the Russians in the Horde were not slaves, not prisoners, but free people.
            2. In Russian cities there were no mosques from the word at all, which means that there were no people who professed Islam. So there were no garrisons and Horde governors.
            3. Baskaki. There are no labels on behalf of the Basques to the princes to collect tribute in nature.
            4. There is not a single label to the princes from the khans wherever they would give them the throne. But there are several labels to the Lithuanian princes where it is written in black and white that after the feuds such and such a khan defeated and the princely merchants are called to return to trade, they will be provided with protection and you need to pay for it.
            5. During the horde, Russia from fragmented principalities turned into a large state with a center in Moscow, and in fact, Russia had two centers, Moscow and Vilna. The question is what kind of shisha did Moscow manage to crank it up?
            6. All these invasions, ruins, robberies did not leave any influence on culture, language, genetics at last.
            7. It turns out that Russia and the Horde have cooperated quite successfully against the backdrop of trade. The Horde controlled and ensured a safe Volga trade route, and the Russian princes paid for it. That prince who received the trade label actually became the main one in Russia.
            1. Zveruga
              Zveruga April 23 2018 14: 20
              +3
              The presence of Slavs in the horde means only one thing; this association did not exist on a national basis. So there are horde rules invented by Genghis Khan. Representatives of any peoples could live in it if they recognized the rules of the horde.
              1. co-creator
                co-creator April 23 2018 19: 00
                +5
                Quote: Zveruga
                The presence of Slavs in the horde means only one thing; this association did not exist on a national basis. So there are horde rules invented by Genghis Khan. Representatives of any peoples could live in it if they recognized the rules of the horde.

                If it is true . then the version of Fomenko that the khans of the horde could be Slavs is quite real.
          6. Sergey Horuzhik
            Sergey Horuzhik 4 June 2018 15: 25
            0
            It is only necessary to note that the reasons for the invasions were always internal conflicts between the princely families in Russia. When both of them invited foreign forces as their allies.
          7. Prosha
            Prosha 11 July 2018 20: 51
            0
            L.N. Gumilev, putting forward a thesis

            L. Gumilev is the same historian as Lenya Gozman and another character named Ponasyonkov!
          8. Asiat-s
            Asiat-s 16 July 2018 20: 36
            +2
            Quote: Proxima
            There was no Horde yoke, but what happened then?

            Quote: Proxima
            Or someone wants to say that all this was not?

            Wants, wants. There were a lot of things then, but the question is what do we for certain is it known? Let us not rely on the opinions of "authorities", but consider reliable and accessible (preserved) documents and archaeological finds that have come down to us. It’s easier for us now than for the same Gumilyov, since many historical documents and especially maps have already been digitized and entered the network. But you also need to be able to work with this avalanche of information. Here we need calm impartiality and common sense. Now, for example, the Kazakhs in the person of their irremovable head (and most of the "elite") without batting an eye say that they are direct heirs of the Golden Horde. That blood of genghisids flows in their veins. Now look at the maps of the Golden Horde ... But it IS NOT there! As there is no, and there was no "Great Roman Empire." These pseudo-empires can be found ONLY in history textbooks, which we diligently hammered into and “monographs of historians”. Regarding the Kazakhs, I just recommend reading the series of publications "Who are you Kazakh? Brother, friend or ..."
            wakeupnow.info/index.php/en/one-menu-facts-opinio
            n / 2840-kto-ty-kazakh-brat-drug-ili (open link - just copy two lines of the link as one)
            I recommend reading the entire series of articles (there are only seven) to get a feel for and understand the essence of the issue. It describes a chain of general historical events in the Eurasian space over the past 1000 years and the emergence of various ethnic groups (including Kazakhs). The latest genetics studies have also been used. I really hope that after reading (and obligatory comprehension) such pathos exclamations, which are quoted at the beginning of my comment, will subside. Not the fact, of course, it is impossible to convince some, not only real and reliable facts and evidence, but even shame. Dogmatism requires great efforts in overcoming it.
        2. dima9990
          dima9990 6 June 2018 18: 52
          0
          Type in YouTube Klim Zhukov. The comrade very intelligibly reports whether there was a yoke or not, from what sources he repels, gives links from where the woods are. It makes him laugh that there are no written sources about the existence of the Mongol empire. And he will tell where they are for today. True, one lecture is 1.5 hours. Overpower many beeches?
          1. co-creator
            co-creator 24 July 2018 12: 18
            +1
            Quote: dima9990
            Type in YouTube Klim Zhukov. The comrade very intelligibly reports whether there was a yoke or not, from what sources he repels, gives links from where the woods are. It makes him laugh that there are no written sources about the existence of the Mongol empire. And he will tell where they are for today. True, one lecture is 1.5 hours. Overpower many beeches?

            Zhukov is an ordinary clown and in his lecture there are many statements that he himself came up with or thought up.
      2. kalibr
        kalibr April 17 2018 08: 47
        +4
        + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 17 2018 09: 49
          +24
          After the success of fantasy Fomenko EVERYTHING is possible.
          Any fantasy rolls, if you start it methodically
          untwist.
          It pushes me to start promoting that penguins in Antarctica are
          gradually degraded ancient human civilization. And what?
          The climate has changed, frost, nothing to eat. Learned to dive, catch
          fish. Gradually transformed into creatures similar to birds.
          But they still go straight, hold meetings, hold meetings.
          If you hint that they are from Scythians and Aryans, supporters of the hypothesis will appear. fellow
          Again: the staples are "Antarctidanasha." The territory is huge, by the way, dissect? wink
          1. novel66
            novel66 April 17 2018 10: 53
            +18
            I do not know. warrior. Are you familiar with esotericists, and so in their opinion - Negroes are descendants of Atlanteans, and humanity as a whole did not come from monkeys, but from insects. so where are you with your penguins request
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 17 2018 13: 52
              +8
              I’m not familiar, but I have no doubt that no matter what the wild version
              no matter what I came up with, someone will slap another 10 times cooler! The main thing: consistently
              to spin in the internet, regularly do youtube with serious scientists from unknown academies
              in jackets with ties. And people will believe in flat land and in human-insects. fellow
              1. novel66
                novel66 April 17 2018 14: 13
                +7
                and how they study the Atlanteans - generally a song! IN A DREAM!
              2. NIKNN
                NIKNN April 17 2018 16: 35
                +14
                Quote: voyaka uh
                And people will believe in flat earth

                Yes, it’s flat ... it’s still lucky for us that it doesn’t stand on the edge, otherwise everyone would fall ... horror, I tremble all the time ...
                1. tv70
                  tv70 April 21 2018 16: 46
                  +1
                  Nevertheless, it is spinning! wink
                  1. NIKNN
                    NIKNN April 21 2018 16: 56
                    0
                    Quote: tv70
                    Nevertheless, it is spinning! wink

                    Where should she go? Still spinning ...
              3. The comment was deleted.
          2. Crane operator Nahamkinson
            Crane operator Nahamkinson April 17 2018 11: 22
            +11
            laughing warrior.
            Penguins in antarctica it's
            disappeared
            some kind of tribe of Jews.
            These are your relatives, warrior.
            Only they mutated a little.
            And so similar to you. wassat
            1. findin
              findin April 18 2018 23: 39
              0
              You to whom?
          3. Monarchist
            Monarchist April 17 2018 15: 30
            +5
            Warrior, and if you add that their evil matrix drove them there, Samsonov will take you as a co-author. That's just how you will do the fee?
          4. The comment was deleted.
          5. Khazarin
            Khazarin April 17 2018 21: 38
            +16
            And you are vainly scoffing at Fomenko! He and Nosovsky simply put forward one of the hypotheses for dating historical events, because the Scaligerian dating system is already lying about the early Middle Ages, almost 300 years ago! There is evidence of this in the form of Coptic dating and the perfect confusion between Aramaic and Hellenic (Byzantine) in the appendix to Scaligerian! But Fomenko and Nosovsky tried to apply mathematics in their method. Although their method may not be a panacea.
            1. voyaka uh
              voyaka uh April 17 2018 22: 48
              +3
              No. They began to juggle events with nonexistent “holes” in history. And they reached this point to complete clinical absurdity.
              By the way, the Jews dated their letters with the date “from the creation of the world” from about the new era approximately. And no "holes" in the history of Europe since ancient times and through the Middle Ages according to Jewish chronology were discovered by researchers. Jews read the handwritten Torah scroll all year and then symbolically "bury" (send to the store). Next year is a new scroll. There are many such storages. Each scroll is one year. Clear?
              And before the Middle Ages, and in it, and after. All eras in its classic place.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 19 2018 01: 19
                +8
                Quote: voyaka uh
                By the way, the Jews dated their letters with the date “from the creation of the world” from about the new era approximately.

                The younger the state - the more ancient history it wrote to itself, before the collapse of the USSR, the Jews were the most "ancient", but now it suddenly turned out that there was no one older than the Ukroshumeri.
                Quote: voyaka uh
                Clear?

                I see, you just made fun of someone, don’t want to make fun of yourself?
          6. Rey_ka
            Rey_ka April 19 2018 12: 27
            +2
            Well, not Antarctica and the Arctic (North) we do not need alien penguins
      3. RUSS
        RUSS April 17 2018 14: 51
        +1
        Quote: K0
        baaaablo - pay for popular articles (with tons of comments and views). I don’t know whether the rate is fixed here or not, but the topic is popular and you can still raise a lot of dough on it

        Plus, you can add the site rating, the higher its rating, for example, from the number of registered participants or the number of views, the more expensive advertising on this site, and the income from advertising for many sites is the only income.
      4. volot-voin
        volot-voin April 19 2018 20: 45
        +4
        Quote: K0
        baaaablo - pay for popular articles (with tons of comments and views). I don’t know whether the rate is fixed here or not, but the topic is popular and you can still raise a lot of dough on it

        Quote: K0
        Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
        Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

        baaaablo - pay for popular articles (with tons of comments and views). I don’t know whether the rate is fixed here or not, but the topic is popular and you can still raise a lot of dough on it hi
        [quoteThe Horde yoke was not there, but what then was there?] [/ quote] There was an invasion, but here is where so many Mongols to collect? There are about 1 million of them today, including the Buryats. (With all due respect to the Union people) .But then there was an active settlement of Siberia + a huge number of Caucasoid peoples east of Russia - Mordva, Chuvash, Polovtsy, etc., etc., I do not exclude that the Mongols could be in the composition . They could well be organized in the army-Horde by the Vladimir-Suzdal dynasty in their own interests, for example. Khan Alexander Nevsky - historical fact, google) One of his real military titles.
      5. Nagaibak
        Nagaibak 1 May 2018 07: 11
        0
        The question is who pays and why?))) Normal subversive work and no more.)))
      6. gladcu2
        gladcu2 15 May 2018 23: 26
        +2
        Kashchei?

        Why pay a lot for an article?
        Wisdom, you are ours ...
        1. Cxnumx
          Cxnumx 16 May 2018 06: 10
          +1
          Quote: gladcu2
          Kashchei?
          Why pay a lot for an article?
          Wisdom, you are ours ...

          and now get the sense of this set of phrases, otherwise I don’t throw grass.
      7. ava09
        ava09 24 May 2018 07: 31
        +2
        It is clear why Koschey ... "Salvage" is concentrated among those who benefit from the yoke myth. The bloggers who debunk him are left with crumbs ...
    2. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 17 2018 06: 09
      +2
      so that the last restraining factor disappears in the idiots.
    3. Moskovit
      Moskovit April 17 2018 06: 52
      +14
      The answer is simple - the government of Mongolia decided to improve the image of the country and launched a media company to justify Genghis Khan and Batu. The program "Mongols - the first pacifists of Asia" allocated 100500 tugriks.
      1. nixar
        nixar April 18 2018 23: 56
        +3
        and the monument to Genghis ?! Tsereteli resting
    4. Lizzzard
      Lizzzard April 17 2018 08: 07
      +6
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

      Demand creates supply, not otherwise. Someone is buying "Russian combat science fiction" and popananic waste paper.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt April 17 2018 08: 45
        +12
        Quote: K0
        baaaablo

        True, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. Pay attention to this very revealing and completely idiotic passage from the article: "...Naturally, in Rome and in the West they tried to distort and hide the true history of the Russian superethnos and the Russian-Horde Empire, the so-called Tartaria which subordinated most of the continent.
        In the Reich, Jewish scholars were stigmatized for belittling the dominant role of the great German people --- the valiant ruler of Eurasia, and here the West is collapsing.
        All these articles, books, Zadornovshchitsky etymology, “ancient” maps (which no one has seen in their eyes, because they exist only on the Internet in the form of pixels) are the same field of berries. but even in Kiev the same elder was with their great Cossacks, the sons of Perun, and the history was distorted by unclean Muscovites and Soviets.
        1. andrew42
          andrew42 April 17 2018 10: 59
          +8
          To use it blindly, it is imperative that there be a grain of reliable facts in the volume of misinformation, or allusions to those. Therefore, the current Zhid-Bandera people are beckoning their followers with Perun and embroidered shirts, the main thing is that the herd should go according to the plan of the "great architect". Embroidery here is not to blame. These embroidered shirts are our native too. A sophisticated method when, due to Hitlerism, they put an end to the swastika symbols of the entire Race, this is a classic of the genre.
        2. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh April 17 2018 15: 47
          +4
          "" Mongolian "invasion and" Mongolian "empire.
          The historians of the Romanovs (and the Germans were the first to write the official “history of Russia”) ////

          And who are the Germans ??? the same Rus (according to Samsonov): Pomerania (Pomors), Prussia (Porussia).
          that is, the Rus-Germans created the myth of the Mongols? (according to Samsonov) Uh ... a puncture in a harmonious theory.
          And the wars of Russia and Germany. As many as two. Also, it turns out: "the Russians fought with the Russians" (according to Samsonov). Passionarity is so ...
          1. 1970mk
            1970mk April 18 2018 10: 56
            +5
            Germans? Russ ???? Class! And when did the GERMANS appear at all? Something unfortunate historians of science fiction do not say that the same Europe on ethnic grounds was divided practically "yesterday" ....
        3. Khazarin
          Khazarin April 17 2018 21: 46
          +13
          What is sadness? But do you know, dear sir, that the so-called now Germans, for 20 ... 30 percent, consist of their assimilated Slavs, Slaves, Serbs, Bodriches, .....? Or, as an example, Nestor, who directly points to "Varangians, Russia," is not given, Swedes, Urmans, Angles (a tribe in Norway), namely Russia and does not tell about any interpreters, although such are already indicated in the description of the agreement with the Byzantines. Is something known to you about Great Moravia? So Zadornov did not dissemble how much he said that most of Europe was still Slavic!
        4. nixar
          nixar April 18 2018 23: 58
          0
          no, old cards are a fact
          1. Setrac
            Setrac April 19 2018 01: 21
            +4
            Quote: Nixarov
            no, old cards are a fact

            Oh, but how to check?
        5. Zveruga
          Zveruga April 23 2018 14: 27
          0
          But what does Zadornov have to do with it? He did not invent the Russian language and its roots are understood by the Slavs. Also, the existence of Hyperboreans cannot be denied, since there are references to them in ancient manuscripts. To deny the Aryan origin of the Slavs, Sanskrit as their proto-language, their use of runes, is also ridiculous as the denial of the Mongol-Tatar yoke.
          1. co-creator
            co-creator April 23 2018 19: 04
            +3
            Quote: Zveruga
            as ridiculous as the denial of the Mongol-Tatar yoke.

            it’s ridiculous to deny that which was not there, you are right in that.
        6. xtur
          xtur 31 May 2018 14: 09
          +2
          > Reich, Jewish scientists were branded for the fact that they belittled the dominant role of the great German people --- the valiant ruler of Eurasia, and then the West collapses.

          in general, the author referred to European maps, where the entire territory of the Russian Federation until the 17th century was called Scythia
      2. kalibr
        kalibr April 17 2018 08: 51
        +6
        Dmitry - laugh! Somehow I contacted a publishing house, offered them a history book ... And they told me - it’s not the people who hawl! "And what?" They told me - "Write that our paratrooper walked along the street and fell into a hole in time. He turned up in Rome, became a gladiator, sleeps with Cleopatra, then" raised the dough "and returned!" And honestly, seduced! I decided to try it, but I just won’t finish it ...
        1. Lizzzard
          Lizzzard April 17 2018 09: 00
          +2
          laughing
          Well, actually, yes. Books on the history of marginalized "intel" are interesting (and this is a miserable percentage). Those wishing to read about a beer about a paratrooper paratrooper will be more =)
          1. Varyag77
            Varyag77 April 18 2018 20: 23
            +6
            Quote: Lizzzard
            laughing
            Well, actually, yes. Books on the history of marginalized "intel" are interesting (and this is a miserable percentage). Those wishing to read about a beer about a paratrooper paratrooper will be more =)

            Have you read it yourself? Or from the category of "did not read, but condemn"? Read Mazin for example. there, in addition to the first two pages about the "hit by the GG," there is nothing "sort of" there. And there is a good historical detective-action movie. Believe me, this is much better than not reading at all. Moreover, it is written at a fairly high historical level. So I wouldn’t have to write off everything so indiscriminately. Mazin, Posnyakov give very suitable and interesting historical books. And the “tramp” is just for the lure.
            1. kalibr
              kalibr April 20 2018 08: 29
              0
              It’s a pity that you cannot read my historical novel “Pareto Law”. The Germans can (Russian-speaking), and ours ... can, but not the price of our salary.
        2. Rey_ka
          Rey_ka April 19 2018 12: 35
          0
          sleeping with Cleopatra
          I can offer a plot thread for tolerance: there is also either Caesar Gay Julius or Mark Anthony so that all together in one crib
    5. svp67
      svp67 April 17 2018 08: 26
      +7
      Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth?

      This is from a feeling of DEFICIENCY. I already thought that in Russia they had been ill with this, but no ... there are still "outbreaks of this disease." Look at Ukraine and you will see what “neglect, of this disease” leads to.
      The myth of the "Mongol" invasion and the "Mongol" yoke created to hide the truth about the true history of Russia, the heiress of the thousand-year northern tradition of Hyberborea and Great Scythia.
      Are the Sumerians too?
      It is a pity that a great country, someone coming up with something to raise its greatness. How shallow ...
      1. Khazarin
        Khazarin April 17 2018 21: 50
        +5
        Not you Sumerians yet! But you can become Mohicans in speed!
      2. The comment was deleted.
        1. Setrac
          Setrac April 19 2018 01: 23
          +2
          Quote: Nixarov
          in feudal slave Russia

          You maliciously violate the rules of the site.
          1. YELLOWSTONE
            YELLOWSTONE April 19 2018 01: 48
            0
            if it’s not, then there will be nothing for it lol
    6. Vend
      Vend April 17 2018 10: 08
      +4
      Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

      Then what you need to denigrate the history of Russia. These dreamers just amuse me. After all, then what happens, Russia and all Western countries, together came up with the Mongol invasion. Rare unanimity. The question is why? Well, at least they did not disgrace themselves with stupid things.
      1. Khazarin
        Khazarin April 17 2018 22: 07
        +10
        And when did the "history of Russia" actually appear? With the creation of the Russian Academy of Sciences. And who was at the origins of the academy? That's right, people really do not even know the language of Russia! How could one explain the despotism of eastern power? Only a centuries-old dependence on the eastern despots! And what events and documents could explain this? Exceptional annals of the Horde. So the Mongol Tatar yoke appears that is tied to the story of Genghisides. True, there is one very inconvenient fact, this is Timurchin (Tamerlan), he must be a vassal of the Genghisides, but for some reason he fights them, and even with deafening success, and he appeared to the world almost the heart of the Horde. Inconsistencies however. And there are so many of these inconsistencies that you are amazed!
        1. Vend
          Vend April 18 2018 09: 57
          0
          Quote: Khazarin
          And when did the "history of Russia" actually appear? With the creation of the Russian Academy of Sciences. And who was at the origins of the academy? That's right, people really do not even know the language of Russia! How could one explain the despotism of eastern power? Only a centuries-old dependence on the eastern despots! And what events and documents could explain this? Exceptional annals of the Horde. So the Mongol Tatar yoke appears that is tied to the story of Genghisides. True, there is one very inconvenient fact, this is Timurchin (Tamerlan), he must be a vassal of the Genghisides, but for some reason he fights them, and even with deafening success, and he appeared to the world almost the heart of the Horde. Inconsistencies however. And there are so many of these inconsistencies that you are amazed!

          The history of Russia appeared from the writing of chronographs written in the Old Russian principalities. And also in other sources, it is from this that historians begin the countdown. But the yoke fact did not appear at the academy, but in the same chronographs and other sources.
          1. Varyag77
            Varyag77 April 18 2018 20: 43
            +8
            Quote: Wend
            The history of Russia appeared from the writing of chronographs written in the Old Russian principalities.

            And where can I find these unconditionally authoritative documents?
            And at least their names can be recognized?
            And I do not even admit the thought that you DO NOT know that there is not a single original of ANY old Russian chronicle. There are only lists. And the dating of these lists is very far from the “like dating” of the originals.
            1. Vend
              Vend April 19 2018 09: 23
              0
              Quote: Varyag77
              Quote: Wend
              The history of Russia appeared from the writing of chronographs written in the Old Russian principalities.

              And where can I find these unconditionally authoritative documents?
              And at least their names can be recognized?
              And I do not even admit the thought that you DO NOT know that there is not a single original of ANY old Russian chronicle. There are only lists. And the dating of these lists is very far from the “like dating” of the originals.

              All originals are in museum repositories, but any documents are available online. Mostly in translation, but if you try, you can find it in the original, but if you can read in Old Russian, Latin, Greek, Arabic. Start with the Tale of Bygone Years. Procopia of Caesarea read. This is enough for you for a year for sure.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 19 2018 09: 36
                +5
                Quote: Wend
                All originals are in museum vaults

                Quote: Wend
                Start with the Tale of Bygone Years

                The story of the temporary years was not preserved in the original, only copies of the 18-19th century
              2. Varyag77
                Varyag77 April 19 2018 16: 28
                +6
                Quote: Wend
                All originals are in museum repositories, but any documents are available online. Mostly in translation, but if you try, you can find it in the original, but if you can read in Old Russian, Latin, Greek, Arabic. Start with the Tale of Bygone Years. Procopia of Caesarea read. This is enough for you for a year for sure.

                This was sarcasm, if you did not understand. There is not a single original of any old Russian annals. Including PVL. So I recommend that you study this issue. Enough for more than a year.
        2. Rey_ka
          Rey_ka April 19 2018 12: 38
          +3
          Was there a Horde? She did not leave megalithic structures like pyramids. And the fact that they paid tribute so maybe the princes laundered money?
          1. Zveruga
            Zveruga April 23 2018 14: 29
            0
            Horde is a nomadic state in which every shepherd was a warrior. What kind of buildings can a nomadic society have?
      2. Varyag77
        Varyag77 April 18 2018 20: 26
        +8
        Quote: Wend
        Then what you need to denigrate the history of Russia. These dreamers just amuse me.

        Do you seriously understand why? It’s sad. Apparently you forgot (or maybe you didn’t know) that it was TMI that substantiated the superiority of the West over Russia. Say, Russia stopped in development because of the yoke of filth. for 300 years she lagged behind the enlightened west. So now we must recognize the superiority of the West and accept everything that he says.
        Wend, it’s commonplace. and any schoolchild not a loser knows about this.
        It was an awesome ideological whip that made Russians believe in their wretchedness and backwardness.
        1. Vend
          Vend April 19 2018 09: 29
          0
          Quote: Varyag77
          Quote: Wend
          Then what you need to denigrate the history of Russia. These dreamers just amuse me.

          Do you seriously understand why? It’s sad. Apparently you forgot (or maybe you didn’t know) that it was TMI that substantiated the superiority of the West over Russia. Say, Russia stopped in development because of the yoke of filth. for 300 years she lagged behind the enlightened west. So now we must recognize the superiority of the West and accept everything that he says.
          Wend, it’s commonplace. and any schoolchild not a loser knows about this.
          It was an awesome ideological whip that made Russians believe in their wretchedness and backwardness.

          Well, where is the wretchedness and backwardness? After the invasion of Batu, Russia rebuilt anew, more than once "giving the teeth" to the Western invaders. In Moscow, they set up a stone fortress like that. You live in some parallel universe. See what is not in sight. The main thing that happened because of the yoke was a big loss in people and a complete reorientation of Russia to the east. Until the time of Peter I.
      3. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 04
        +2
        history cannot be denigrated or rewritten. you can only try to distort, shut up, replace it with mythology, and so far we have just that
      4. Setrac
        Setrac April 19 2018 01: 25
        +5
        Quote: Wend
        After all, then what happens, Russia and all Western countries, together came up with the Mongol invasion.

        They came up with the whole story. The need for such an instrument of propaganda as history appeared long before the advent of the so-called "scientific" methods of cognition.
        Quote: Wend
        The question is why?
        1. Vend
          Vend April 19 2018 09: 31
          0
          Quote: Setrac
          Quote: Wend
          After all, then what happens, Russia and all Western countries, together came up with the Mongol invasion.

          They came up with the whole story. The need for such an instrument of propaganda as history appeared long before the advent of the so-called "scientific" methods of cognition.
          Quote: Wend
          The question is why?

          Well, it started. Then physics and chemistry are generally the enemies of mankind. And mechanics is a way of destroying humanity. Stop.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Vend
              Vend April 19 2018 09: 42
              0
              Quote: Setrac
              Quote: Wend
              Then physics and chemistry are generally the enemies of mankind.

              Your brain is your personal enemy, and common sense is a universal evil in general, you have long defeated it.

              Everything is fine with my head. As one character said, "It's important to defeat the dragon in yourself." Here, in myself, I defeated him, and now I am fighting with those who cherish their dragons.
              1. Setrac
                Setrac April 19 2018 10: 22
                +5
                Quote: Wend
                and now I fight with those who cherish their dragons.

                You have broken cause and effect relationships, for some reason you think that the dragon of traditional history is somehow better (more like) the dragon of alternative history.
                And of all honest stories, the most honest and believable is the new Ukrainian history.
    7. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich April 17 2018 11: 06
      +5
      Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

      Because how many people - so many opinions yes Because for many, explanations for an event seem absurd, and therefore people are looking for more logical answers. Because, if a person is told that he, although this is not so, then with time he himself will believe in it. But if he sets himself the goal of proving that this is not so, then a different point of view arises that differs from the imposed one.
      Therefore, there are now two camps - one considers itself and its version to be right, for they are imposed (teaching in schools-institutes is non-alternative imposition), others find other interpretations of the same event. But the paradox is that some a priori consider themselves right, while others only want the truth, and not what is presented as truth ....
      1. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 08
        0
        there may be many opinions, but the truth is one. including historical. for example, the USSR, later Russia zealously denied the “sealed wagon”, sec. the protocols of Molotov-Ribbentrop, Wallenberg, Katyn, etc. Now this is not questioned, as well as the ability of Russians to believe in any nonsense
        1. SEER
          SEER 31 May 2018 18: 39
          +3
          Quote: Nixarov
          sec the protocols of Molotov-Ribbentrop, Wallenberg, Katyn, etc. Now this is not questioned, as well as the ability of Russians to believe in any nonsense
          have secret protocols been published yet? can i read
          Quote: Nixarov
          this is not questioned, as is the ability of Russians to believe in any nonsense
          for this it is possible and necessary for the horns ...
    8. Spnsr
      Spnsr April 17 2018 12: 33
      +5
      Here it’s probably worth making a clarification, the myth of TMI was created to conceal the whole history of mankind!
      So in itself, the meaning comes up, which implies the confrontation of several ideologies, as now, for example, the confrontation of Western ideology and Eastern, and then, with the development of civilization, the view in the rule of one ruler was somewhat different, relative to the other ruler
      1. Spnsr
        Spnsr April 17 2018 12: 59
        +4
        We are not talking here about the rulers of entities that did not share something among themselves, for example, between the rulers of Novgorod and Pskov, namely, the ruler supreme, whose subjects were Novgorod and Pskov. This is rude and arbitrary.
        For example, the period of the reign of the USSR, how dramatically changed the view on the construction of the state and what it led to. So earlier, at first the first developed territories, now it is called the European part of Eurasia, were divided according to the view of the device into eastern and western, and then they began to divide the territories among themselves !!!
        1. Spnsr
          Spnsr April 17 2018 13: 51
          +3
          And when the strife among themselves in the European part of Eurasia reaches a maximum, almost a village fights against the village, the so-called TMI appears. It unites the eastern part of Eurasia and invades the west, thereby allowing the Western Slavs to be preserved, under the name Slavs!
          1. Spnsr
            Spnsr April 17 2018 13: 59
            +5
            One can argue about the contingent contingent as much as you like, but for some reason, this contingent causes direct associations with the contingent of 1812, 1914, 1945 !!!
            And modern Mongols got their name only at the beginning of the 20th century, and obviously this was not the meaning that was invested in the description of the events of the 13th century !!!
            1. Spnsr
              Spnsr April 18 2018 12: 03
              +4
              In general, before thinking about history, you probably should have paid attention to how civilization developed! How it spread across the planet. And only after answering these questions, begin to talk about history.
              For example, as now, the main migration flows are from east to west. But this is so, for show.
              It is very striking that the European part of Eurasia was first mastered, and by the 13th century, it began to declare its identity, I mean that the cities, with the adjacent territory (the Khanate, the Principality, the kingdom,) began to fight among themselves,, for human resources and territories!
              1. Spnsr
                Spnsr April 18 2018 12: 41
                +3
                It was this, the massacre of the territory, the war, that gave rise to the events of the 13-14 centuries. And the unification of the territory, which is now called Russia, was the reason for the fact that it still exists! And here, the assertion that it was the yoke of the Mongol, in the understanding of the modern interpretation of the word, as it fades, before the Stalin, Romanovs, Ivan the Terrible, because everyone gathered and grew territories, a part of the world that is called Russia.
                And just such a view gives reason to argue that the Etruscans are Russians, but not from chauvinism, but from the understanding that we are descendants of the same tribe, but each went his own way, like Poland and Finland at the beginning of the last century, like Ukraine now! !
                So the whole European part of Eurasia a little earlier! come from one tribe!
                1. Spnsr
                  Spnsr April 18 2018 16: 55
                  +2
                  And here, no matter how blasphemous for the supporters of traditional history sounded to the ears, the development of the eastern part of Eurasia from the point of view of civilization is not a way of life and life, namely civilization in the broad sense of the word, takes place in the 17-19 centuries and is still ongoing . Although the first acquaintance with this territory occurs at a time when internecine strife rages in the European part of Eurasia
                  1. Spnsr
                    Spnsr April 18 2018 17: 49
                    +1
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    Although the first acquaintance with this territory occurs at a time when internecine strife rages in the European part of Eurasia

                    And this is the 12th century!
                    After that, the process begins, in modern language, of establishing constitutional order in the European part of Eurasia!
                  2. Spnsr
                    Spnsr April 19 2018 22: 47
                    +1
                    Quote: SpnSr
                    the first acquaintance with this territory occurs at a time when civil strife rages in the European part of Eurasia

                    The first acquaintance with this territory can be attributed to the period of Genghis Khan, this is an official story, but it is objectively evident that the one who came there for the first time was not in a hurry to enlighten, perhaps taught by the experience of events in the European part of Eurasia, or maybe because events in the European part of Eurasia distracted him from enlightening this territory; he leaves teachers there and leaves to restore order in Europe!
                    This is a bit of an official story with Augustus, where he is killed, for his desire to carry out reforms in the European part of Eurasia ...
                    And here, TMI appears, with the invasion of Europe !!!
              2. Spnsr
                Spnsr April 19 2018 22: 28
                +2
                Quote: SpnSr
                It is very striking that the European part of Eurasia was first mastered

                And the Vikings master this territory according to the official history - they are Vikings, their historians also call Russia, these are rowers in galleys. Having mastered the territory of Europe, they settle, begin to form some states, at that time, the state was limited to the city and nearby settlements, and then, by the middle of the 12th century, they began to fight with each other for territories and population!
                And this happened not only in the territory of modern Russia, but throughout Europe.
          2. Spnsr
            Spnsr April 21 2018 10: 29
            +2
            Quote: SpnSr
            the so-called tmi appears. It unites the eastern part of Eurasia and invades the west, thereby allowing the Western Slavs to be preserved, under the name Slavs!

            The most striking thing is that this invasion territorially stopped, as did the western borders of the Russian Empire, and the borders of the Warsaw Pact countries. But each time these boundaries became less and less ...
      2. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 16
        0
        and you didn’t go too far with generalizations: if you can try to “pull on” the dem. values ​​fr. revolution (this is nothing more than declarations), then the problem is already with the east: 1) Russia (bending to the west), 2) Islamic fundamentalism (the destruction of infidels, jihad "); 3) China - the" third way "- to capitalism, but under the banners of mao and pda: 4) kndr- refined socialism, etc .. it is clear that he didn’t get out of his mind, but you know a little Russian
    9. Bar1
      Bar1 April 17 2018 12: 53
      +4
      the myth of the "Mongols from Mongolia" who created one of the greatest world empires in the history of mankind is a deception and the greatest historical and informational sabotage of Rome and the West as a whole against Russia-Russia

      a little wrong Alexander Samsonov, the Mongols WERE. But only for understanding and avoiding the historical pit _mongols_ it is necessary to proceed to the correct reading of the historical documents, which are old maps. So the Mongols are _MONGALS / MUNGALS_ this is exactly what is written on the old maps.


      or here



      in the drawing book of Siberia Remezov we see the names of localities with characteristic names
      -MUNGALS- WHITE
      -MUNGALS-YELLOW
      -MUNGALS-BLACK


      but this is not all Mongols in the world, there were many such as African MONGALS, which is why the Russians in the 19th century were so anxious to create their own state in Ethiopia, because the Mongols / Russians always lived there.


      enough for now, so the _mongals_ are_mongols_ in the understanding of traditional history, but who were these mongals?
      It was GALY. Well, and here a completely different story begins and the fact that the Gali / Celts / Celts / Russians lived not only in Russia and Asia, but also, as Mavro Orbini said, the best European provinces subjugated the best European provinces to this, too, evidence appeared.
      1. Zveruga
        Zveruga April 23 2018 14: 37
        0
        Mongals and mungals are residents of the country of Mo and Mu. Mo sank and only Mu remained from her. Most of Mu also sank crushed by a glacier and only China remained from it. The Mongols are Chinese.
    10. RUSS
      RUSS April 17 2018 14: 52
      0
      I wonder what qualified historians and ethnographers think about Samsonov and his fantasy articles.
      1. Bar1
        Bar1 April 17 2018 21: 03
        +7
        Quote: RUSS
        I wonder what qualified historians and ethnographers think about Samsonov and his fantasy articles.


        there is enough qualification of our historians. if you only read thoughtful "ancient texts" in Old Slavonic or Latin, and then talk about what scoundrels the Russian princes were, who only acted out that they cut each other, betrayed each other. But this is not true. For example, there is Fomenko-Nosovsky’s study on the falsification of the Radzivilov Chronicle, where the fact of the Varangians coming to Russia is falsified, as well as a link to modern chronology. And what are “qualified historians”? Yes, they are just silent, like a fish on ice. Rather, there were attempts to refute, but they just look not convincing.
        1. Elena Khazova
          Elena Khazova April 21 2018 14: 32
          +4
          Thieves - in Russia - did not come, yes, they were - Russia
          and the Russians did not cut each other - this in this article is an overtone lie, if you sweep it away and perceive everything else, the picture becomes very true and very interesting

          LEN
          1. Varyag77
            Varyag77 April 21 2018 15: 19
            +3
            Quote: Elena Khazova
            Russians did not cut each other

            Blessed is he who believes. They cut it so that the rivers turned red with blood. Do not soar in the clouds. And learn the subject.
      2. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 09
        +4
        Quote: RUSS
        I wonder what qualified historians and ethnographers think about Samsonov and his fantasy articles.

        I believe that they are friends) Like a bad good cop)
      3. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 18
        +1
        interesting, not what they think, but what they can object essentially
      4. kalibr
        kalibr April 20 2018 08: 40
        -2
        And what is there to answer? In a nutshell you can’t explain, you will run into site rules. It is pointless to recommend reading the works of Pletneva, Khudyakov, Soloviev, Gorelik. Even when you give a photo of the covers of their books, no one reads anything ... And why after that explain something?
        1. xtur
          xtur 31 May 2018 15: 00
          +3
          > What is there to answer?

          Where are the Mongolian bones in commercial quantities in burials? where is the DNA analysis of these bones?
    11. skeptic31
      skeptic31 April 17 2018 17: 01
      0
      Really why? Before us is a kind of selection of information. The continuous chewing of even the smallest episodes of the 1st World War, even to the extent that it is declared domestic, and the propaganda of the latest “achievements of history”. This is a glorious life under kings priests and the overthrow of certain episodes of our history. For example, the Mongol-Tatar invasion. And it starts with some little things. Like, there was an invasion, but there were no Mongols. Those. the impression is that the authors did not read anything at all. This is a well-known fact that there really were very few Mongols in this invasion. Moreover, after they migrated to the Great Kurultai, there were practically none left. But what does the invasion have to do with it?
      1. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 23
        +2
        precisely at that: there was / was not. Unfortunately, there are very few "well-known facts" of those times. to overthrow "individual episodes of history" can only be facts and this is called quite differently - the establishment of a true story
    12. Nick
      Nick April 17 2018 23: 57
      +1
      Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

      Attack on Orthodoxy! At the very beginning of the article, the author talks about the imposition of Christianity in Russia by Byzantium (East Roman Empire), in order to subjugate Russia to Rome. Unproven statement. Orthodoxy and Catholicism, neither now, nor even then were not a single whole. The Orthodox still consider Catholics to be heretics, with all the consequences ...
      1. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 32
        +4
        yeah, the Equal-to-the-Apostles, through long-term thought, "received his sight" (than not a Buddha), and even went into Christianity. True, while violating one of the main XP. commandments, having abused the faith of their ancestors, because in the opinion of the Russian Orthodox Church, it’s still holy. by the way, most even morons know that in those days, about 1000 years ago, there was no division of Christianity into Catholics and Orthodox. but Van didn’t care about Susanin, Klava is at hand, and his hands itch, there is no one to give them, but better, by ...
        1. nixar
          nixar April 19 2018 00: 38
          +1
          By the way, who gave you the right to spoil the name of a true patriot of Russia, does it matter if this is a real person or a legend?
      2. Aleksandr_5
        Aleksandr_5 April 22 2018 16: 44
        0
        fine!!! Well, who pulled you? On religious grounds, here generally-stabbing will begin am
    13. co-creator
      co-creator April 18 2018 16: 08
      +3
      Quote: Uncle Vanya Susanin
      Why create a myth that the Mongol yoke is a myth? That is the question ?

      because official history instead of truth created the myth of the Tatar-Mongol yoke. For any myth, another myth is created, this is normal.
      1. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 40
        +1
        it’s a pity that he’s a conspirator. normal - when myths recede before the truth, but scoops are enough (and necessary) - only myths
        1. co-creator
          co-creator April 19 2018 13: 14
          +4
          Quote: Nixarov
          normal - when myths recede before the truth, but scoops are enough (and necessary) - only myths

          official historiography is not going to revise the myth of the Mongol-Tatar yoke, and even vice versa does everything to protect it with a 10 meter fence. Therefore, myths will always be inevitable.
        2. Aleksandr_5
          Aleksandr_5 April 22 2018 16: 52
          +3
          No one has called you a shit or a liberal anymore, dear. According to this, it will be appropriate for you not to use the words "scoop", "rashka" - (this is for the future, so to speak in preventive measures)
    14. Elena Khazova
      Elena Khazova April 21 2018 14: 27
      +4
      Mogolo Tartaria = Great TarHTaria
      and a bunch of maps in the storerooms of the Civil Defense of Russia, not to mention foreign museums
      GENUINE cards
      ANCIENT CARDS
      which displays - Tartaria, which is approx. corresponded to the territory of the USSR, and more

      and "our foreign partners" - called their fictional hell - Tartar

      you're not a fucker "Vanya", since you write such nonsense
      simple - Memory is returned to the Russian People

      for those who are in a tank and without a helmet - the petite fake-first one canceled the chronology by more than 7 thousand years and made from it - "1700 from rx"
      it is a fact documented and recognized by the official history

      LEN
      1. Spnsr
        Spnsr April 21 2018 17: 24
        +1
        Quote: Elena Khazova
        for those who are in a tank and without a helmet - the petite fake-first one canceled the chronology by more than 7 thousand years and made from it - "1700 from rx"

        You would not get excited! The fact is that a little over 1000 years have passed from edged weapons to today, so the calendar 2000 years are quite real for civilization!
        I do not dispute your point of view, but I want to give a grain of doubt!
        And the maps were drawn in the middle of the second, last millennium, in order to at least classify these lands, since they were not designated at all in any way, compared to the European part of Eurasia, and was qualified precisely by the inhabitants of Europe, since Asia was still not developed generally. And these maps were drawn, including for Peter, in the long term for the development of these territories.
        And tartar, it’s more like that. - unknown, not known ...
      2. Aleksandr_5
        Aleksandr_5 April 22 2018 16: 57
        +2
        Elena is bravissimo! love Excellently smeared! soldier
    15. evgeny68
      evgeny68 April 22 2018 18: 57
      0
      The author of course burns, especially about the Russian name Temuchin. Read Gumilyov Ancient Russia and the Great Steppe, there is an etymology of the origin of many names and titles. The author is curious who is by education that he gives out such pearls.
  2. Hole puncher
    Hole puncher April 17 2018 05: 47
    +7
    And who created the myth of the myth of the Mongol invasion?
  3. Moskovit
    Moskovit April 17 2018 05: 48
    +14
    I want to say in the words of the author: Thus began the "Great geographical discoveries" and, fortunately, the ravings of citizen Samsonov ended.
    1. igordok
      igordok April 17 2018 07: 38
      +12
      Quote: Moskovit
      ... and fortunately the ravings of citizen Samsonov ended.

      The ravings of citizen Samsonov, unfortunately, have not yet ended. Perhaps it will even increase. Just such Samsonovs destroy our history. Those. destroy Russia.
      For me, the difference between traditional and alternative history is the same as the difference between traditional sexual relations and non-traditional (homo) ones.
      For the interest.
      1. Seraphimamur
        Seraphimamur April 17 2018 10: 32
        +2
        All the same Vatican interpretation of history.
      2. Maestro Barabashkin
        Maestro Barabashkin April 18 2018 15: 31
        +4
        This nonsense contradicts even the so-called official history. On this map, the lands of the Slavic Slavs (namely from there the principalities of Rus, Lehits and Czechs were formed) are designated as German. Although Germanic tribes appeared east of the Rhine in only the 12th century! With the exception of the Goths, of course, but they almost immediately went south to the Black Sea. There are no Ilmen Slovenes / Slavs on this map, although judging by the chronicles, the city of Slovensk was founded three thousand years before our era. There are no Slavs, that is, Wends / Venets.

        As for the Mongols, there are a lot of jambs. For example, the Vatican pseudo-historians did not think through the moment with Mamaia. According to official history, two troops advanced immediately to Moscow, the Mongol led by Mamai, and the Cossack led ... by Mamai. Moreover, the Cossacks somewhere got lost along the way and disappeared. And the “Mongol” Mamai is credited with the acts of the Cossack Mamai, travel and alliance with Lithuania, for example. And the fact is that there were no Mongols and Mongols of Mamai. There was one Cossack Mamai who fought with Moscow in an alliance in Novgorod and the Lithuanians. For this reason, after the Battle of Kulikovo, Novgorod (for a minute, the richest city of that time) "suddenly" became part of the Moscow Principality. For a moment, Putin himself said that Muscovites fought against the Novgorodians on Kulikovo Field. If the first person the state says so, and even secret information is clearly known to him, then this is at least a reason to think.

        And also, drawing your attention to the Polovtsy, who have exactly the same armor with the Russians and who look like ordinary European Slavs in all engravings, and the very name "Polovtsy" means "fair-haired" (from the word "polota"), which does not fit into the official history that they were Türks and belonged to black hoods (that is, black-haired, a hood is such a hairstyle).
        1. Maestro Barabashkin
          Maestro Barabashkin April 18 2018 15: 35
          +5
          The Principality of Ostria disappeared somewhere else, which in the future would be captured by German barbarians and called Austria. Adriatic venets disappeared somewhere, and it was from there (from Krapina) that the journey of Lech, Czech and Rus made their journey along the amber path. Poland disappeared somewhere in the early stages ...

          I’m silent about the Etruscans, who were kindred (as they say today, fraternal) peoples for Venets. Venets and Etruscans used to be one peoples and were called Enets, on behalf of Enet, and they came from Troy after its fall. Well, where is all this? Everything I have described is in documents that the so-called official history recognizes. These are not theories and assumptions, these are facts. Just why are they not known to anyone, and yet the same official history manages to contradict them?
          1. Varyag77
            Varyag77 April 18 2018 20: 32
            +3
            Quote: Maestro Barabashkin
            The Principality of Ostria disappeared somewhere else, which in the future would be captured by German barbarians and called Austria.

            Here you stand on a slippery track. She, among others, ruined Fomenko and Nosovsky.
            Batu-Batu, Mom-Mamai. Austria is Osterreich (the original letter O is umlaut. We don’t have one and we can’t write such a sound) But it is translated simply and verbatim. East Reich. and don’t need to attract the similarity of words by the ears.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Varyag77
                Varyag77 April 19 2018 16: 44
                +1
                Quote: Maestro Barabashkin
                And it’s worth writing information from the annals, some * ugly will appear (sorry, but I can’t name you otherwise),

                And learn the manners of hamlo. Here people communicate.
                And with such kookies you’re not here clearly.
      3. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 17
        +4
        Quote: igordok
        The ravings of citizen Samsonov, unfortunately, have not yet ended. Perhaps it will even increase. Just such Samsonovs destroy our history. Those. destroy Russia.

        This is really nonsense.
      4. Aleksandr_5
        Aleksandr_5 April 22 2018 17: 03
        +2
        whose will you be? you don’t even have a Russian video !!!
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 17 2018 10: 52
      +1
      "and fortunately the delirium of the citizen ended ..." ///

      ABOUT! We are waiting for so many wonderful discoveries ...
      I bet that ancient Egyptian civilization was
      founded by Siberian Scythian-Rus! I can’t prove it yet, but I can smell it in my gut.
      I think Samsonov will help me. After all, if you prove it, then all
      civilized Earth - Scythian-Russian. Trump ace!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Aleksandr_5
        Aleksandr_5 April 22 2018 17: 23
        +1
        and the fact that many so-called artifacts were found on the territory of Siberia and Central European Russia, such as the Solar-Lunar calendar, according to conservative estimates of 18 thousand years ago, highly artistic jewelry, tools, fortifications and burials of more than twenty thousand years of history. Moreover, shamelessly hushed up by your official science. So, dear you, our erring Warrior wow, your pyramids sniffed dust from under the canvas boots of OUR ancestors !! yes
    3. nixar
      nixar April 19 2018 00: 44
      +2
      "Samsonov’s citizen" isn’t completely nonsense (not nonsense at all?). this is an occasion for everyone to think that there is a story, how true it is and, by and large, how much a Russian is capable of his own unbiased thinking / judgment, without regard to the "bosses"
  4. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 05: 55
    +6
    Well ... I started :)
    1. igordok
      igordok April 17 2018 06: 54
      +6
      Quote: Varyag77
      Well ... I started :)

      Once again.
  5. zoolu350
    zoolu350 April 17 2018 05: 57
    +8
    This already 100500 outlined srach according to "Igu" between the "chronic" and the adequate ones is bored.
    1. YELLOWSTONE
      YELLOWSTONE April 17 2018 06: 35
      +9
      Adequate too forgot to put in quotation marks
  6. Olgovich
    Olgovich April 17 2018 06: 04
    +7
    Reborn and degrading the Horde Empire (from the Russian word "kind")

    There is another Russian word from these letters: "odr" yes

    Sounds like a song:
    Batu - father
    Mom Mom .... yes
  7. moskowit
    moskowit April 17 2018 06: 37
    +6
    It is also worth remembering that the names Chemuchin (Temuchin), Batuy, Berkei, Sebeday-Subudey, Guess, Mamai, Chagat (d) ai, Boro (n) dai, etc. are not “Mongolian” names.

    And if you still trace the relationship from Mamai through the Glinsky to Ivan the Terrible and insert in the article, you get a generally unshakable theory ... So I give the idea to the Author .... Develop, Dear. Such a spacious "field" of various fantasies opens .... "Scary, already terrible ...."
    1. Cxnumx
      Cxnumx April 17 2018 09: 22
      +1
      Quote: moskowit
      And if you still trace the relationship from Mamai through the Glinsky to Ivan the Terrible and insert in the article, you get a generally unshakable theory ...

      it will be a "non-cable" theory)))
    2. Freeman
      Freeman April 17 2018 12: 45
      +1
      moskowit (Nikolai Ivanovich) Today, 06: 37
      And if you still trace the relationship from Mamai through the Glinsky to Ivan the Terrible and insert in the article, you get a generally unshakable theory ... So I give the idea to the Author .... Develop, Dear. Such a spacious "field" of various fantasies opens .... "Scary, already terrible ...."

      Yes, yes, I give a hint. This is how Mr. MikhAlkov did it. hi

      wassat laughing
    3. nixar
      nixar April 19 2018 00: 46
      0
      you are mistaken, history is not a fantasy, it is reasoned, evidence
      1. Setrac
        Setrac April 19 2018 01: 36
        +4
        Quote: Nixarov
        you are mistaken, history is not a fantasy, it is reasoned, evidence

        Especially Ukrainian ...?
  8. hunn
    hunn April 17 2018 06: 41
    +10
    It’s harmful to watch the REN-TV channel. Protoukry dug the Black Sea, Siberian Rus created the Horde.
  9. Cherkashin Ivan
    Cherkashin Ivan April 17 2018 06: 43
    +6
    When will this spring end? When the aggravation of the "comrades" will end?
    1. Hantengri
      Hantengri April 17 2018 07: 43
      +5
      Unfortunately, Samsonov’s exacerbation is permanent and does not depend on the changing seasons.
      1. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 48
        0
        do not vomit in vain, it is necessary to refute the facts, documents
  10. Gardamir
    Gardamir April 17 2018 06: 53
    +6
    Judging by the comments, Even if many in the history lessons sat with their backs to the teacher, they still remembered that there was a Mongol-Tatar yoke. They do not need evidence, neither for nor against, it was just.
    1. Korsar4
      Korsar4 April 17 2018 07: 14
      +5
      Still, someone was facing the teacher. And then, please tell me, what is conclusive in this article?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr April 17 2018 08: 56
        +6
        The most interesting for me personally is that the above picture wanders as a “proof” from one article (commentary) to another. Constantly! But there are no others ...! Either not found, but rather too lazy to look. I should have adopted this principle: a pair of helmets, a pair of swords, one chain mail, one or two castles on the mountain - and the whole design for the next article about the Middle Age is ready. And figs strain and for each to look for a new one?
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir April 17 2018 18: 13
        +5
        what is conclusive in this article?
        Rather, I mean not an article, but a discussion. The article is a reason to think.
      3. nixar
        nixar April 19 2018 00: 49
        0
        but what does not contradict the facts, documents, this is enough
  11. Nix1986
    Nix1986 April 17 2018 06: 56
    +6
    That's where the authors of the UFO magazine moved to this site !!!
  12. Korsar4
    Korsar4 April 17 2018 07: 12
    +6
    And again the slogans. And the symbol of the article is not the Mongolian name “Guess”. I don’t understand one thing - why all this?
  13. kolesov
    kolesov April 17 2018 07: 22
    +7
    In Siberia, only Tatars did not meet any Scythian Aryans in Siberia starting from the Nizhny Novgorod region in the south of Astrakhan and further the Bashkirs have the same language among the Avars.
    1. Seraphimamur
      Seraphimamur April 17 2018 10: 28
      +4
      Did Yermak personally tell you about this?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Spnsr
      Spnsr April 22 2018 21: 34
      +2
      Quote: kolesov
      In Siberia, only Tatars did not meet any Scythian Aryans in Siberia starting from the Nizhny Novgorod region in the south of Astrakhan and further the Bashkirs have the same language among the Avars.

      Strange, but where are the Tatars in the Astrakhan Khanate! ?? They probably forgot to call them that, but they called them Cossacks !!! After all, it is south and east of Kazan !!! In general, all this shnyaga with nationalities and races, that is, the doctrine of them, a product of the late 18th and early 19th centuries !!!
  14. Lizzzard
    Lizzzard April 17 2018 08: 03
    +8
    Wow and Mr. author’s vigorous plan! The article lacks only masons, reptilians and those who cannot be called. laughing
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 17 2018 16: 50
      +1
      ... they are invisibly present between the lines, will pop up
      in the sequels .... bully
    2. Maestro Barabashkin
      Maestro Barabashkin April 18 2018 15: 44
      0
      What is this?
      https://www.google.com/maps/place/Масонский+зал+Л
      ондона/@51.5151672,-0.1209639,3a,75y,70.73h,150.3
      5t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipOQwMNTiVLXB-c67ihTV9
      W7AKMNFPyeX93X6e1N!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.go
      ogleusercontent.com% 2Fp% 2FAF1QipOQwMNTiVLXB-c67ih
      TV9W7AKMNFPyeX93X6e1N%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-6.94188
      3-ya353.5-ro-0-fo100!7i9728!8i4864!4m8!1m2!2m1!1s
      freemason+hall!3m4!1s0x0:0xfb2c0d1be19ce658!8m2!3
      d51.5147252! 4d-0.1208496
      Mosfilm scenery?
  15. EvilLion
    EvilLion April 17 2018 08: 11
    +7
    Author, see the wall? Head on her, quickly, decisively.
    1. igordok
      igordok April 17 2018 10: 29
      +2
      Quote: EvilLion
      Author, see the wall? Head on her, quickly, decisively

      You are kind. Somehow you are mild to the author.
  16. Helmsman
    Helmsman April 17 2018 08: 12
    +3
    Good time of day, comrades. But I’m thinking, why not? Why not believe in such a fairy tale? What is the bad idea that we are a superfood? Although this is not so far from the truth, cockroaches in the head would be put in a stall, but in idiology, put things in order so that confusion and vacillations in our ranks diminished. PS by the way, you don’t have to go far. Hollywood does the same. One Captain America of which stit))))))
    1. Lizzzard
      Lizzzard April 17 2018 09: 02
      +3
      What is the bad idea that we are a superfood?

      Ask the Germans, they tried in the thirties. It ended with the occupation and division of the state into zones of influence. They didn’t really like it.
      1. andrew42
        andrew42 April 17 2018 10: 45
        +2
        If the Germans did not create the Third Reich not at the request of the "Anglo-American" (well, whose anyone) financial clans were left for drang, but "for their loved ones," this Reich would probably still be standing. Another thing is that it was originally a “mega-maidan”, in modern clichés, an aggressive and misanthropic tool, not a structure .. There is no direct connection between the “super-duper” and the rout / occupation. The devil is in the details.
        1. Lizzzard
          Lizzzard April 17 2018 10: 50
          +5
          Chauvinism condones inefficiency, embezzlement and stupidity, which ultimately did not bring anyone to good.
          Patriotic frenzy implicated in bare PR cannot replace real work for the good of the nation; it is a placebo, not a medicine.
          1. kalibr
            kalibr April 17 2018 11: 44
            0
            Well you said - you can print directly on the tablets of history. Can be used as an epigraph? Let ???
            1. Lizzzard
              Lizzzard April 17 2018 11: 52
              0
              Anonymous authors do not have copyright laughing
        2. The comment was deleted.
          1. Spnsr
            Spnsr April 18 2018 18: 04
            +1
            Quote: Maestro Barabashkin
            Scoop and asashai are two states occupied by the Jews with two artificially created economic systems and contradictions in order to have a reason for invading and occupying different countries. When almost all countries occupied, they took the least successful model (scoop) and destroyed it. Do you like this fact or not. For all my hatred of the Fryans, but there was the last bastion on the road to confrontation with world Zionism.

            I wouldn’t get so excited! As you say, scoop, ruined himself due to lack of understanding of what to strive for and how to build relationships!
            Capitalism also has a problem, it too can burn out if it does not change its approach and determines its goals, it can gobble up itself!
      2. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 25
        +2
        Quote: Lizzzard
        Ask the Germans, they tried in the thirties. It ended with the occupation and division of the state into zones of influence. They didn’t really like it.

        Or maybe we ask the Americans?
    2. nixar
      nixar April 19 2018 00: 54
      0
      would put things in order in idiology ... you are our helmsman
  17. dgonni
    dgonni April 17 2018 08: 54
    +2
    What chamber did the author escape from? Although probably not from the house, he smoked or sniffed something pickled. Bullshit is so easy not to compose
  18. solzh
    solzh April 17 2018 09: 01
    +1
    Stick-trees, what the ...? Here about a scientific fraternity fantasy! Nightmare!
  19. Yuri Guliy
    Yuri Guliy April 17 2018 09: 22
    +3
    To propagate the myth of the myth, another series on TV should be launched with the participation of recognizable and beloved artists like Galkin and Pugacheva.
    1. marline
      marline April 17 2018 15: 07
      0
      Quote: Yuri Guliy
      To propagate the myth of the myth, another series on TV should be launched with the participation of recognizable and beloved artists like Galkin and Pugacheva.

      "Tartars with the stars"? Or "Stars in Tartarara"?
    2. co-creator
      co-creator April 18 2018 16: 27
      +1
      Quote: Yuri Guliy
      To propagate the myth of the myth, another series on TV should be launched with the participation of recognizable and beloved artists like Galkin and Pugacheva.

      Yes, it seems there is already a "horde" called.
  20. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur April 17 2018 10: 27
    +5
    I believe the article. If already before our eyes the West is not embarrassed to rewrite history, and this is during global informatization, but what can we say about the events of 800 years ago: as the Vatican said, they don’t agree to the fire. Syria example. Trump said to the whole world that the United States defeated ISIS.
    I do not believe that the Mongol warriors held a dinner of abstinence and as a result, after 300 years, the yoke of the Russians is not narrow-eyed.
    1. zoolu350
      zoolu350 April 17 2018 17: 19
      -1
      Quote: Seraphimamur
      I do not believe that the Mongol warriors held a dinner of abstinence and as a result, after 300 years, the yoke of the Russians is not narrow-eyed.

      The basis of the troops of the Mongol Empire were Turks, and they are not complete Mongoloids. During the collapse of the Mongol Empire, the Ulus Jochi (Golden Horde) began to boil in its own juice, since the flow of Mongoloid genes ceased en masse. As a result, the gene set among the inhabitants of Eastern Russia and the western border of Ulus Jochi has become identical. And during the counterattack of the Moscow Kingdom (RI) in the 16-19 centuries, the gene set of the vast majority of the peoples of Russia shifted to a more Caucasoid side.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 29
        +1
        Quote: zoolu350
        As a result, the gene set among the inhabitants of Eastern Russia and the western border of Ulus Jochi has become identical. And during the counterattack of the Moscow Kingdom (RI) in the 16-19 centuries, the gene set of the vast majority of the peoples of Russia shifted to a more Caucasoid side.

        You invented it yourself or can you confirm something?
        1. zoolu350
          zoolu350 April 19 2018 04: 26
          0
          Why should I come up with something. Of course, I don’t have statistics on halogen groups for the 13-19th century (like yours), but the appearance of many aristocrats of the Moscow State, especially in the 14-16th century, is fully consistent with my data.
          1. co-creator
            co-creator April 19 2018 13: 21
            +1
            Quote: zoolu350
            Why should I come up with something.

            So I wonder why.
            Quote: zoolu350
            Of course, I don’t have statistics on halogen groups for the 13-19th century (like yours), but the appearance of many aristocrats of the Moscow State, especially in the 14-16th century, is fully consistent with my data.

            In the appearance of aristocrats, nothing can be learned from the word at all. There is genetics, and she says there are no Mongolian traces of Russians at all, and Turkic as neighbors should have.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  21. andrew42
    andrew42 April 17 2018 10: 38
    +8
    Already a couple of decades ago, I concluded for myself that quasi-Mongols are a pagan reaction. The division with the East European Slavs was mainly based on religion (after the baptism of Russia and Poland), and according to everyday life. The Baikal region is “Kurykans” according to Okladnikov, the Huns who had cities in the Voronezh region, the ancient Ugrians who “slipped” to Pannonia, the Kama Bulgarians — the Volgars, the Pechenegs, the population on the Irtysh and Tara, the Polovtsy and the “red girls of the Polovtsian”, who were perfectly at war in the snow and the forests of the "Mongol-Tatars" are facial prints of one super-ethnos in different historical eras. A common deep culture, a common worldview, which made it easy to find a common language for the Varangian from Ruyan and the Siberian Scythian from the Baraba forest-steppe.
  22. andrew42
    andrew42 April 17 2018 10: 48
    +6
    Samsonov Respect. Anyone who indiscriminately wants this concept, let him climb trees to the Drevlyans, and blow on the glades - to the glades. How not to love your family. so as not to look for traces of his greatness. - This is a complex, anyway.
    1. nixar
      nixar April 19 2018 01: 02
      +1
      complex is when you need to look for (invent) traces of greatness, which, for example, the descendants of "ukrov" do. greatness is manifested even without a thorough search, have you heard of the pyramids?
  23. Maxim L_2
    Maxim L_2 April 17 2018 10: 54
    +10
    Unfortunately, the written story does not always consist of facts. I just don’t understand why none of the commentators even admits the idea that the article has a right to exist. For some reason, DNA analysis is not an argument. This is one of the main scientific arguments. And how many indirect signs of the insolvency of the written history. I am sure that none of these scribblers both remembers and does not know that there was another calendar before, and the bill was kept long before Christmas. And talk about the background of fascism in this context can only be a pervert all over his head. No need to rush from one extreme to another. You do not know - it’s better to be silent, maybe you’ll marry a smart one.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  24. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 11: 03
    +13
    Colleagues. Let's separate the flies from the cutlets. After all, it is quite obvious that all the "alternative versions" were born not just and not from the itching of the authors in one place. They (versions) appeared as a result of a not very convincing "official" story. People find a bunch of questions, inconsistencies, inconsistencies, contradictions both in the logic of events, and relying on the sciences adjacent to the history, to which all these “officials” and personalities legitimized in their degrees and ranks do not understand ANYTHING. All answers come down to one. I am a professor of history, you are a ram. all. I'm a doctor - you're nobody.
    So things are not done. I understand that they (the officials) are extremely offended and painful to perceive doubt in their words. This is a big blow to the FAQ. But to blame for yourself.
    Now the official story looks like a canvas that was beautiful and monolithic until the end of the 20th century, and since the end of the 20th, due to the opportunity for a huge number of curious people to have access to a huge amount of information, this canvas began to crack at the seams and spread like a rotten toga homeless roman.
    Another thing is that many are very heavily logged. As a result, crazy versions and interpretations appear.
    But one must understand that even if the "alternative" is insane and indecent, this does not mean at all that the "official version" is the ultimate truth.
    Well and it is natural that in our country the main attention of alternative specialists is given to Igu specifically. After all, the official history of these events is in fact no less insane. It is generally almost impossible in its canonical form.
    Well, do not forget that truth is born precisely in disputes. But there are essentially no disputes as such. There is only spitting on everyone and everyone who dared to doubt the words of the officers.
    For example, I’m still waiting from the guru of the history of Mr. Shpakovsky about metal among the Mongols. Waiting, Waiting. maybe when and explain to me what a disease.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr April 17 2018 11: 51
      0
      But didn’t I write to you that you yourself can read everything on the website of the National Historical Museum of Mongolia in Ulan Bator? In my opinion I wrote. There are several blocks for reconstruction and everyday life, and their military history. Come and see. This is much more interesting than re-reading other people's words. Then I gave a link to the books of Khudyakov and his colleagues from Mongolia. There is also about metalworking ... I physically cannot answer in detail to everyone, they don’t pay me for it!
      1. Begemot
        Begemot April 17 2018 14: 04
        +13
        to kalibr
        There, in this museum, they also say that the Mongol wars could travel for three days in a deserted area, feeding on insects from their bodies, and horses just walked around with tree branches. Following the deep-rooted habit of visualizing information, he very vividly imagined a couple of kilograms of lice on a Mongol warrior, and the horses were refueled with firewood, while spare horses, too, not to get tired, also rode behind the rider on the main horse. Suddenly a war, and they are umtams! And about metal, tie these mantras about nomadic Mongol metallurgists. For a person even with the KMB in metallurgy, this phrase also cuts the ear as the statement that "the Roman Empire collapsed after the capture of its capital - New York by Grigory of Macedon." What a fabulous idle-break you need to be, so that spending a lot of time looking for a place where at the same time there is in the right quality, accessible form both original ore materials, and fuel, and soil for laying furnaces, and soil for foundry molds, and the place should be suitable for living having found such a place, it is necessary to equip the home, establish life, food, equip technological and production facilities, even the most primitive ones, to establish contacts with customers, etc., etc., but suddenly, by virtue of the nomadic nature, take and break through the Mongolian echtoy in nomadic steppe, only the dust flies.
        Complete nonsense!
        I agree with Varyag 77 on all 100%, learn to be convincing, gentlemen, historians, and most importantly, start YOU to create something yourself in your department, and not to drive doubters who refer to such historians as you.
        1. Rurikovich
          Rurikovich April 17 2018 21: 02
          +8
          Quote: Begemot
          I agree with Varyag 77 on all 100%, learn to be convincing, gentlemen, historians, and most importantly, start YOU to create something yourself in your department, and not to drive doubters who refer to such historians as you.

          good
        2. NN52
          NN52 April 17 2018 22: 38
          +7
          Begemot
          Varyag77

          I very much agree with you about the historian, who considers only his opinion to be correct, and rejects all the others ... it’s so convenient for him, he was taught that way ... And he writes his opinion on helmets and on metals ... It's amazing. ..
          Here is not a historian, but only interested in history ... Practice .. hobby ...
        3. co-creator
          co-creator April 18 2018 16: 39
          +4
          Quote: Begemot
          And about metal, tie these mantras about nomadic Mongol metallurgists.

          It is useless to him to explain; he is an ordinary sectarian. Any historical works that do not coincide with the opinion of CALIBER are automatically blacklisted by him and he promptly palm off the “correct” works)
        4. nixar
          nixar April 18 2018 17: 35
          +4
          even in modern conditions, 1-3 million lives on the territory of Mongolia. 800 years ago there were also no dairy rivers with jelly ... the nomadic way of life in rather scarce territories does not allow 1) to significantly increase the population; 2) suddenly (historically) to achieve a high level of metal production and processing, especially since the nomads do not need this in FIG
      2. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 35
        +3
        Quote: kalibr
        Then I gave a link to the books of Khudyakov and his colleagues from Mongolia.

        That is, Khudyakov um and his colleague from Mongolia are the only ones who broadcast the truth correctly?))
    2. Lizzzard
      Lizzzard April 17 2018 12: 00
      +5
      They (versions) appeared as a result of a not very convincing "official" story.

      If you think soberly, then the whole story right up to the invention and the massive introduction of printing should not be taken too seriously, it is much better to treat it as myths and legends, which it is for its extremely weak verification. =)
      1. nixar
        nixar April 18 2018 17: 38
        +3
        you are right, the true story is often replaced by myths that firmly live in the Russian consciousness, be it A. Nevsky or I. Stalin
    3. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh April 17 2018 13: 46
      +4
      "They (versions) appeared as a result of a not very convincing" official "story." ///

      No. Even if the “official story” were documented and confirmed by artifacts 100% year-on-year, such an alternative story would certainly have appeared.
      Reason: no one likes to lose. And losing the war to strange incomprehensible Mongols and falling into the position of vassal city-states for 200 years is a shame.
      Jews, for example, are also upset that the Romans once defeated them (that is, us) us, such “cool and smart”, to smithereens and settled them on the far outskirts of their empire.
      But what to do: insulting, but it happened. History is such an unsympathetic lady.
      But someday we will have the same alternative wassat who declares that the Roman emperors were also Jews, and the legionaries too. So we lost by ourselves
      yourself, which is not at all offensive, but very wonderful! laughing
      1. NN52
        NN52 April 17 2018 22: 42
        +2
        Alexey

        And why are you so actively involved in this topic? Just wondering?
        Or are you seriously interested in history?
        If so, you want to throw off the fot, can you determine what it is?
      2. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 51
        +3
        Quote: voyaka uh
        No. Even if the “official story” were documented and confirmed by artifacts 100% year-on-year, such an alternative story would certainly have appeared.

        WOULD FINALLY APPEAR, here for example there is a myth ALTERNATIVE version of WWII although it is all documented.
        Quote: voyaka uh
        Reason: no one likes to lose. And losing the war to strange incomprehensible Mongols and falling into the position of vassal city-states for 200 years is a shame.

        I understand correctly that, following your logic, the Holocaust is a myth, because it was a shame it just became and it was invented?
      3. nixar
        nixar April 18 2018 17: 43
        +3
        if some historical events are confirmed by artifacts, then historians, even biased ones, are forced to consider them genuine, this is the logic of science, unless evidence / artifacts are found that reject the accepted concept. for example: no evidence of a “grandiose” battle found on the sandpit
    4. The comment was deleted.
  25. BAI
    BAI April 17 2018 11: 41
    0
    hide the truth about the true history of Russia, the heiress of the thousand-year-old northern tradition of Gibberborea and Great Scythia.

    Ukroshumery nervously smoking on the sidelines.
    Why there are no links to the Block:
    Zillions - you. We - the darkness and darkness and darkness.
    Try, fight with us!
    Yes, we are Scythians! Yes, Asians - we,
    With slanted and greedy eyes!
    ...
    We are wide in the wilds and forests
    Before Europe, prigozhey
    Let's part! We will turn to you
    His Asian mug!

    .
    1. co-creator
      co-creator April 18 2018 16: 52
      +2
      Quote: BAI
      Ukroshumery nervously smoking on the sidelines.

      Samsonov is a writer, and ukrosumeri is the official version of the story.
      Quote: BAI
      Why there are no links to the Block:

      So he is a Jew.
    2. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 17: 46
      +1
      yes, perhaps these are the best lines of the block, but he didn’t pretend to be a story. autograph
  26. unignm
    unignm April 17 2018 11: 55
    0
    but about flat land will be
  27. V
    V April 17 2018 12: 07
    +5
    I will repeat from time to time, especially for the "adherents of the Tatar-Mongol yoke":
    V.V. Putin expressed his opinion on the Battle of Kulikovo, having studied the archives, which he later officially announced as open and accessible in the Russian Geographical Society (Russian Geographical Society). From these archives it follows that the Battle of Kulikovo was a civil war, in which Russian regiments stood on both sides and in which the Tatar cavalry was the main striking force. Including, the Tatar-Mongol yoke is nothing more than an invention of the German "professors" who together drew history to us.
    But in view of the fact that the information war has not stopped and will not stop, such information will always be very difficult to break through the hysteria and lies of the Anglo-Saxons and local "patriots of the Motherland" supporting them.
    1. Curious
      Curious April 17 2018 15: 05
      +5
      "VV Putin expressed his opinion on the Battle of Kulikovo ..."
      Do you have any information about his participation in it by chance?
      1. V
        V April 17 2018 16: 56
        +2
        Quote: Curious
        "VV Putin expressed his opinion on the Battle of Kulikovo ..."
        Do you have any information about his participation in it by chance?

        Historical archives are a stubborn thing. Your sarcasm is not appropriate.
        1. Curious
          Curious April 17 2018 18: 25
          +3
          Yes, what sarcasm is there, if personally expressed. Here it is necessary to perform.
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri April 17 2018 18: 41
          +2
          Quote: Vortex
          Historical archives are a stubborn thing. Your sarcasm is not appropriate.

          So you, this one, do not be shy, give citations from these archives and references to them. (Something tells me (the experience of communicating with people like you, probably) that you can’t, due to the lack of archives suitable for you.) laughing
          1. V
            V April 18 2018 10: 31
            +3
            Quote: HanTengri
            So you, this one, feel free to quote

            So you, this, do not be shy, laugh louder, troll more actively, read the wiki and enjoy life. (Something tells me (the experience of communicating with people like you, probably) that you cannot, for lack of gray matter or desire, find information from archives digitized and uninteresting to you.)
    2. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 17: 53
      +2
      Of course, Putin is “our everything,” the ultimate truth (as 78% of Russians think in elections). so the discussion is over. Well, the fact that they didn’t find a fig in the sandstone field: either they searched poorly, or they will still find it (try not to find it, if Putin said). it’s also interesting what archives he officially opened (really with documents of the 14th century!) and why were they closed?
  28. Altona
    Altona April 17 2018 12: 12
    0
    Quote: voyaka uh
    But they still go straight, hold meetings, hold meetings.

    ---------------------------
    Females force males to hatch offspring, which suggests the idea of ​​either late matriarchy or the achievement of complete democracy and tolerance. laughing laughing
  29. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 12: 25
    +7
    Quote: kalibr
    But didn’t I write to you that you yourself can read everything on the website of the National Historical Museum of Mongolia in Ulan Bator? In my opinion I wrote. There are several blocks for reconstruction and everyday life, and their military history. Come and see. This is much more interesting than re-reading other people's words. Then I gave a link to the books of Khudyakov and his colleagues from Mongolia. There is also about metalworking ... I physically cannot answer in detail to everyone, they don’t pay me for it!

    Are you talking about Mikhail Khudyakov? If about him, then where does the history of the Kazan Khanate come from? What does it have to do with the dense pastoralists of the Mongolian steppes?
    Yes, and about the metal. It would seem something easier to say. They had their own ore mining sites. Superbly developed blacksmithing. They produced remarkable steel in sufficient quantities. If you want more, then here is the book of Muslim PUPKIN. Read.
    So no. For some reason, the answer is exactly as I pointed out. Go look at some museum. Go to the Mongolian site. Read it. That is, there is no answer. But the pride of an official does not allow us to admit that there is simply no comprehensive information on this issue.
    That's how we live. And then we are surprised. Why are alternatives divorced like dirt. Alternative specialists are an exceptional offspring of official historians. You gave birth to them, gentlemen, scientists.
    1. Rurikovich
      Rurikovich April 17 2018 21: 03
      +2
      Quote: Varyag77
      Alternative specialists are an exceptional offspring of official historians. You gave birth to them, gentlemen, scientists.

      good
      Stupidly for the sake of interest, I can advise you to watch the alternative video, which is simply looking for answers
      "The lie of historians. Why is the truth hidden from us?"
      Just as one of the opinions that has the right to exist, regardless of the statements of officialdom wink hi
      Ps I don’t think the truth, but the questions sound interesting ...
      1. Varyag77
        Varyag77 April 17 2018 22: 59
        +4
        Quote: Rurikovich
        "The lie of historians. Why is the truth hidden from us?"

        An entertaining movie. Something really has a place to be.
  30. Dashing
    Dashing April 17 2018 12: 57
    +4
    Repeating the glorious song: "... I will not tell you for all Odessa ...", I will not speak for the entire Mongol-Tatar yoke and for the entire Mongol empire, but the maps of Tartaria were officially presented at a meeting of the Russian Geographical Society in the presence of Shoigu and Putin. Mr. Putin sent one of the cards (a copy, of course) to Mentimer Shaimiev as a gift. I think that the president of Russia, a staff member of the "bodies", will not be guided by unverified information, much less will not disseminate it. I’m trained, you know ... The fact that our Motherland is a country with an “unpredictable past” has become an axiom. However, in burials on the territory of the "country of cities" in the Southern Urals and the south of Bashkiria (Arkaim, Sintaksha, etc.), mummies of Caucasians with blond hair are found. And this is 4,5-5000 years BC
    1. BAI
      BAI April 17 2018 13: 36
      +1
      they find mummies of Caucasians with fair hair.

      So what? Does anyone have blond hair.

      Located east of Papua New Guinea in Oceania, the archipelago consists of a thousand islands, where more than half a million Melanesians live. They are the owners of the darkest skin in the world outside of Africa, but many have Afro blond on their heads.
      This is also the Slavs tried?
      There is thoroughbred fair-haired and red-haired Chinese - all not painted:



      cooler than them - only a red negro (again - natural, natural):

      If such appeared in the antediluvian times, then he would be either a god or an evil spirit. (I mean, either super good or super bad).
      1. Dashing
        Dashing April 17 2018 14: 24
        +2
        BAI, you are unacceptably inattentive. Moreover, there are light and red-haired blacks and Chinese, the number of one in a million. Albinos are happily present in any nation. I specifically mentioned the remains of representatives of the Caucasian race (the types you indicated do not belong to it) in burials on the territory of the Chelyabinsk region. According to the data of prof. Gennady Zdanovich, who discovered Arkaim to the world, for this historical period, the remains of representatives of other races in the excavations were not found.
        1. BAI
          BAI April 17 2018 16: 18
          0
          Yes, I saw that
          mummies Caucasians with blond hair.

          But the key word, it seems to me, is fair hair. The hair is immediately visible, but you still have to try on the skull and you can make a mistake. Then, it is still unknown how rare mutations were.
          But Caucasians know what fate could then get there. the slave trade, too, has not been canceled, as well as just trade.
          1. Dashing
            Dashing April 17 2018 17: 22
            +3
            Now you understand, dear BAI, why I like the movie “Cuckoo” (in addition to playing and directing) - the characters seem to actively communicate, communicate, but do not understand each other, speaking different languages ​​and different things. This is the essence of the picture: misunderstanding creates conflict. So it is with you and me, I write about Caucasians, you answer about Negro albinos, I cite Zdanovich’s conclusions, you about fair hair and - "And Caucasoids could have gotten in there then. The slave trade has not been canceled either, just like trading. " BAI, we are talking about the fact that on the territory of the Chelyabinsk region and the south of Bashkiria in the period 4,5-5000 years BC there was no one except for the representatives of the Caucasian race. Whether you like it or not. In addition to Arkaim, up to one and a half dozen cities have been excavated and explored, and everywhere in the burial grounds Caucasians. By the way, belonging to a particular race is determined by the skull, hair color is important, but secondary. And no, you know, slave trade.
            1. BAI
              BAI April 17 2018 20: 23
              0
              Let's go one more time.
              1.
              The first man appeared in the Urals about 100 thousand years ago. It is not unlikely that this happened before, but so far no findings have been made available to scientists at the disposal of scientists. The oldest Paleolithic site of primitive man was discovered in the area of ​​Lake Karabalykty, not far from the village of Tashbulatovo in the Abzelilovsky district of the Republic of Bashkortostan.

              Archaeologists O.N. Bader and V.A. Oborin, a well-known scholar of the Urals, argues that the pra-praralians were ordinary Neanderthals.

              Neanderthals are not Caucasians. Move on:
              2.
              It was established that people moved to this territory from Central Asia. For example, in Uzbekistan, a whole skeleton of a Neanderthal boy was found, whose lifetime was just the first development of the Urals

              Also, somehow closer to the Mongoloids, i.e. - to the Chinese in particular.
              3. Who have the local Neanderthals turned into?
              Aboriginal Uralets - who is he? For example, Bashkirs, Tatars, and Mari have been living in this region for only a few centuries. However, even before the arrival of these nationalities, this land was inhabited. Mansi were the indigenous peoplereferred to before the revolution vogulami. On the map of the Urals, and now you can find rivers and settlements, referred to as "Vogulka".


              Where do you see the Caucasoid here?
              1. BAI
                BAI April 17 2018 20: 42
                0
                PS. I forgot the most important thing - I am aware of the Cro-Magnons!
                1. Zveruga
                  Zveruga April 23 2018 14: 58
                  0
                  Now you understand what grief for the Slavs brought the Mongol-Tatar yoke? If you dig burial grounds, then you can find Caucasians there. But Genghis Khan, who was crowded in China, decided to create a nomadic militaristic state that absorbed many nations. Including even representatives of the Slavs. This gigantic state did not have a permanent capital, as they were nomads. They tore everything where they came. The peoples fleeing from them themselves became nomadic, rose from their places leaving their homes and wandered. Moreover, many of them obeyed the horde, adopted its laws and began to live according to the rules of the horde. So the Aryan farmers became nomads. And they include not only the Slavs, but also the Iranian and Turkic peoples. Genghis Khan muddied the topic and it raced around the world. It was not he alone who conquered all this, but the peoples that he turned to his side made this Mongol-Tatar yoke reaching Europe. At the same time, the Mongols themselves did not need to go from China to Europe. The Mongols raised the neighboring Turkic and Iranian peoples. And these, in turn, raised the Slavs. Which also rose from their seats and began to fight with each other. As if a wave of hatred swept across the continent.
                  1. co-creator
                    co-creator April 23 2018 19: 07
                    +2
                    Do you really believe in what you wrote? How can an empire not have a capital and administration? Well, call the same examples besides the fictional empire of Genghis Khan
          2. Hantengri
            Hantengri April 17 2018 19: 14
            0
            Quote: BAI
            But Caucasians know what fate could then get there. the slave trade, too, has not been canceled, as well as just trade.

            The main thing is that no one has canceled the ability of the species Homo sapiens in crowds to move from one locality to another.
          3. Zveruga
            Zveruga April 23 2018 14: 49
            +1
            Foreigners themselves restored the bust of the Altai princess from the mummy, now stored in Gornoaltaysk at the whim of the Altai people. She is Caucasoid!
        2. Hantengri
          Hantengri April 17 2018 19: 09
          0
          Quote: DARK
          I specifically mentioned the remains of representatives of the Caucasian race (the types you indicated do not belong to it) in burials on the territory of the Chelyabinsk region. According to the data of prof. Gennady Zdanovich, who discovered Arkaim to the world, for this historical period, the remains of representatives of other races in the excavations were not found.

          And in Kostenki Negroids were discovered! And what does this tell us, besides the fact that in Sintasht it is 4,5-5 thousand years BC Caucasians lived, and in Kostenki, on one of the campsites (36tl BC EMNIP) did Negroes live mixed with Neanderthals? How do you think this is connected with the Slavs, and especially the Russians?
          1. Dashing
            Dashing April 17 2018 19: 53
            +2
            What an interesting uncle you are, HanTengri. You will forgive us Sirs for an unworthy craving for facts. Your obedient servant did not mention the Russians and Slavs. The conversation was about the representatives of the Caucasian race, they could be just as successful ests, armor, Krivichi-Lutichi, Arias, as well as, I guess, like you HanTengri. Be more attentive to the opponent’s text in your violent revelations. These bones are located near Voronezh, for you, I understand, this is a trifle, but Voronezh is not Magnitogorsk, but it was all about the territory of the Chelyabinsk region. As far as I remember, the paleotic sites on Markovaya Gora date from 45 to 15000 BC, and “Your Negroid mixed with Neanderthals” turned out to be an interesting type: “This man’s Y-chromosome belongs to the C-M130 haplogroup - the same that was previously discovered in a Mesolithic man from La Branha in northern Spain. By the totality of alleles, a man from Markina Gora is closest to Mesolithic Europeans (Ivide in Sweden, La Branha in Spain, Loshbur in Luxembourg), as well as to the Upper Paleolithic child from Malta to Irkutsk Oblast. Among the 167 modern populations, the northern Europeans were closest to it. " Again Caucasoid, and even Nordic, God forgive you.
            1. Hantengri
              Hantengri April 17 2018 20: 38
              0
              Quote: DARK
              Again Caucasoid, and even Nordic, God forgive you.

              When you read the article, try 1) Read to the end. 2) Try to understand what the author wanted to say, and not just what resonates with the noise in your inter-ear space.
              But not everything is so sad. V.V. Bunak, as always, was right. Bones XIV really turned out to be as "undifferentiated" as genetically imagined. Its equatorial features, seasoned with a considerable share of archaic evidence of a recent exit from the tropics and can be regarded as close to the original for Homo sapiens. Obviously, its "melanesoidity" is not a convergent and not random property, but a testament to the unity of origin of all human races. Although modern Melanesians are genetically removed from Markina Gora, this speaks more about the past nearly forty thousand years, the infinite number of “bottlenecks” and “founder effects” in Europe and in Melanesia. In order to understand the interweaving that accompanied the addition of modern races, we need to study more of the Upper Paleolithic and modern people - both genetically and morphologically. And I think we are entering a new era of paleoanthropology ... http://almisto.mirtesen.ru/blog/43607099580/CHto-
              rasskazala-DNK-drevneyshego-papuasa-iz-Voronezhsk
              oy-oblasti? page = 3

              Quote: DARK
              The conversation was about the representatives of the Caucasian race, they could be just as successful ests, armor, Krivichi-Lutichi, Arias, as well as, I guess, like you HanTengri.

              Do you really think that these Caucasians lived in the Chelyabinsk region 6000 years ago, so well and lived, in the same place, before you were born? And could not go anywhere, could not be crowded out by other nations?
      2. co-creator
        co-creator April 18 2018 16: 58
        +1
        Quote: BAI
        There are purebred fair-haired and red-haired Chinese - all not dyed:

        Who checked thoroughbred?
        Quote: BAI
        cooler than them - only a red negro (again - natural, natural):

        Judging by facial features, his great-grandmother was raped by European sailors.
    2. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 17: 08
      0
      do not exaggerate the competence of Putin (and Shoigu) in matters of history, these are the same laymans, of whom the majority. geographic maps, of course, are historical, but there are some problems with authenticity / dating, for example, the famous flight map
    3. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 02
      0
      the former president decided to call Mintimer (by the way). and about the card ... even a shoigu, not to mention Putin, can even give Ramzan Akhmatovich a checker and a cloak of shamil (easily) and his horse (with some strain) tomorrow. also do not exaggerate the intellectual abilities of "personnel employees" especially as a captain, remember that even a well-known stake. assessor Kovalev was a major ... "
      1. Dashing
        Dashing April 18 2018 20: 08
        +2
        And you are harsh towards people, nixars. The specialists of the Russian Geographical Society are not authoritative for you. “Personnel employees” are not competent, Putin is not a lieutenant colonel, but a captain, and not in rank, but in rank ... I accept with Mintimer, not strong in Tatar, but I write my own name with a capital letter.
  31. Cympak
    Cympak April 17 2018 13: 57
    +3
    It is a pity that the article does not say anything about flat earth.
  32. Cympak
    Cympak April 17 2018 14: 11
    +2
    Once upon a time, Hyperboreans also owned Africa, but damned dominant genes ...
  33. thinker
    thinker April 17 2018 14: 26
    +2
    They read, smiled and forgot. In such opuses from the "new chronology" they have long been "proved" -
    prince Dmitry Donskoy aka Khan Tokhtamysh defeated the troops of the traitor Ivan Velyaminov, also known under the name - Mamai.
    1. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 04
      +1
      if you are a “thinker,” you should know that arguments are answered only with counterarguments, but they haven’t “smiled and forgot”
      1. thinker
        thinker April 18 2018 19: 25
        0
        To prove that the earth is round, fire. "New Chronology" Fomenko-Nosovsky - pseudoscientific theory of a radical revision of world history.
  34. tezey
    tezey April 17 2018 15: 20
    +3
    Blimey. It turns out I was always an ignoramus. Now enlightened. And by the way, Atlantis is the ancestral home of the super duper ethnic group of Russians and it was drowned by the bastard collective west. but then he was under the yoke of the wild tribes of ukrov, who dug up the Black Sea and drowned Atlantis. Therefore, the super ethnos rushed north into hyperborea and there created a great tartaria with the emperor Perun and his younger brother Odin. Then the truth Hyperborea drowned the same and the superethnos left in the steppes and became Mongols, they are Alans, they are also Russes and generally look at the author, he’ll think up better.
  35. Curious
    Curious April 17 2018 15: 31
    +4
    As I understand it, the author is just kidding, launching such stories on the air. The site does not mind, since the state of mind in a given historical period allows you to collect clicks with such simple tricks.
    If to present today's opus briefly, the following is obtained. There was Great Scythia, populated by ancient proto-prots, excuse me, by ancient proto-prs. The main occupation of the protorus was the extermination of the protorus in violent internecine wars.
    Due to this, as well as the influx of Arab Islamists, Great Scythia broke up into the Urals and Trans-Urals.
    Pre-Ural Great Scythians - the Protoruses were, to put it mildly, not up to par. The collective West comparatively easily put them in a well-known position and began to sharply select the habitat of the pre-Ural megaskifoprotoruses, planting along their geyropeyskie grips. The Trans-Ural protorusomegasquifs, seeing such a shame of foundations and a mockery of the shadows of forgotten ancestors, got together and went to put things in flames with a sword and sword and putting under the knife everything that moves, rightly believing that they themselves will figure out who is a sinner, who is righteous, and to restore the ancient power no sacrifice is excessive.
    The mission ended in success, ancient Greater Scythia shone from the taiga to the British seas.
    Then the Collective West, by its natural shit, decided to vindictively take revenge by taking away historical memory from protomegasciforusses and distort the whole process and invented the Mongol yoke.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator April 18 2018 17: 03
      +2
      Quote: Curious
      As I understand it, the author is just kidding, launching such stories on the air. The site does not mind, since the state of mind in a given historical period allows you to collect clicks with such simple tricks.

      Of course . There is such a section "alternative history" and he writes his version of it is his personal right. He does not explicitly claim this to be true, but for some reason official historians lose his temper.
    2. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 14
      0
      the Middle Ages are the same everywhere: in the territory of present-day Russia, in Europe, Asia, America, the strong sought to expand their possessions, subjugate, enslave, rob, not caring too much about foreign languages, other faiths and other troubles, it’s usually applied to Russia as a feud, that's all
  36. Monarchist
    Monarchist April 17 2018 15: 56
    +2
    At what time Samsonov is afraid of us with a fairy tale about hyperbires and claims that all chronicles are fake. And I am occupied with 2 questions: 1) where does he get such data from, what are the alternative annals? I2) is this “creativity" contagious or not? Judge for yourself: only we learned about the great "seafarers" and soon the Hyperbereans appeared. I would not be surprised if it turns out that the Egyptian dew pyramids, or the Hyperbereans, built along with the Ukrainians, and maybe the sea helped to dig? And what in the ancient annals is he called Russian? True, I already doubt: is it possible to trust the annals, after all, they are falsified
    1. co-creator
      co-creator April 18 2018 17: 06
      +2
      Quote: Monarchist
      And I am occupied with 2 questions: 1) where does he get such data from, what are the alternative annals?

      He actually writes journalism no more. What are you all so worried about)

      Quote: Monarchist
      2) is this "creativity" contagious or not?

      Any person has the right to write anything, freedom of speech with us. Did you not know?
      Quote: Monarchist
      I would not be surprised if it turns out that the Egyptian dew pyramids, or the Hyperbereans, built along with the Ukrainians, and maybe the sea helped to dig? And what in the ancient annals is he called Russian? True, I already doubt: is it possible to trust the annals, after all, they are falsified

      This is an ALTERNATIVE story, do you understand the meaning of the word?
    2. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 21
      +1
      note, Hyperboreans are known mines since the time of Herodotus (2500 years ago). about the pyramids: you may be right, read Fomenko / Nosovsky. Russian ancient annals are not younger than 16-17 centuries, the authenticity of some (many?) is in doubt, as, for example, "a word about the regiment ..."
    3. Net
      Net April 19 2018 16: 39
      +1
      "The Tale of Bygone Years": "And Dnepr will enter into the Pontic Sea with three necklaces, the same as the sea to say Rus'ke ..."
      150 years ago, Von-Vizin (yes, yes, the very one who wrote "The Undergrowth") calls the sea Russian. It was renamed arrogant Saxons 100-150 years ago from the filing of the Georgian prince (possibly after the battles with Nakhimov). "World sobstvo" with the German kings of Russia agreed with the renaming.
  37. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 16: 24
    +3
    Quote: voyaka uh
    Reason: no one likes to lose. And losing the war to strange incomprehensible Mongols and falling into the position of vassal city-states for 200 years is a shame.

    Yes, where does the insult? The greatness of the Russian state is visible to us. further descendants. And they just lived, loved, fought. Nobody thought of such concepts in those days. It is a big mistake to use modern morality, law, and the current understanding of justice to evaluate events.
    As an example, the killing of children of the vanquished. Now they say atrocities. earlier it was absolutely normal and within the framework of the existing morality. Surprise would cause a decision to spare them.
    So that’s not the point at all. The fact is that they do not want to make ends meet. And the whole story of the yoke exists exclusively on obscure pieces of paper under which everything else was rigged. And in fact, it has no tangible material evidence.
    For example, I specifically studied the issue of the burial of the Mongols. And if the rich and noble were buried through burning, ordinary soldiers were buried in the ground. Often using the so-called mass graves. Digging a hole. The corpses were taking shape. It was buried, and then the earth was rammed with horses.
    Now what in What? Where? When? Attention question. Where is at least one such burial in Russia? Or were they immortal? There is not one. But according to official history, the Tatars did not go to Novgorod precisely because they were weakened. painfully Russian fought well. So where's the Zin grave?
    And of such good to you, any adequate alternative person will throw a wagon and a couple of trolleys in addition. Such as Samsonov simply discredit the very concept of "alternative history" by throwing tartaria, hyperborea, Batu-Batya, reptilians and other heresies into the people.
    1. kan123
      kan123 April 17 2018 17: 46
      0
      And what Batu had to do in Novgorod - the Pope was trading a free city through Novgorod. It was a "free city" in the sense of a transit point. Today everything is in a fog, - the history has been confused, and the priests, scribes and the princes themselves, and whoever just didn’t mark it, was rewriting history. All these illiterate, lousy, stinky scribes, both among the Pope and the Mother, and the Ottomans and the Russians, competed for the Hans Christian Andersen Prize - but as a fact, Batu had an agreement with the Papa of Rome - they divided the territory - to whom it was - by bl . East, North, and "in. Europe." Across the Black Sea, the Popes organized a pretty slave trade from the Caucasus and future Ukraine. The Golden Horde, as Batu saw it, did not need Novgorod, or Theodosius, or Warsaw - these were all transshipment points, exchanging goods for gold. If he closed these cities, then the horde would have turned out, not golden, but wooden, or from what are the shepherds building wigwams there?
      1. Hantengri
        Hantengri April 17 2018 19: 30
        +1
        Quote: kan123
        but as a fact Batu had an agreement with the Pope, - they divided the territory - to whom, according to bl. East, North, and "in. Europe." Across the black sea

        The text of the contract is weak? lol And by the way, what was the name of the Pope, the one who signed the agreement with Batu? laughing
        1. co-creator
          co-creator April 18 2018 17: 12
          +1
          Quote: HanTengri
          The text of the contract is weak? And by the way, what was the name of the Pope, the one who signed the agreement with Batu?

          The text of the label where the Khans of the Golden Horde appoints Kalita to reign weakly? lol
    2. co-creator
      co-creator April 18 2018 17: 10
      +2
      Quote: Varyag77
      People like Samsonov simply discredit the notion of "alternative history"

      FOR THIS IT HE RECEIVES MONEY, therefore his articles are printed for example on this site. It was exactly the same with Fomenko. If initially he simply looked for inconsistencies and asked questions, then he simply stupidly began to write fairy tales. NOW ALL HIS WORKS are perceived as humor and no one even wants to discuss sound thoughts.
    3. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 28
      +1
      Yes, morality is ethical, changeable, only for wretched ("poor in spirit" - blessed) Christians from Moses to the end of the world. but this does not justify, say, the murder of a 3-year-old son (false?) by Dmitri and m. minishek or the murder of imperial daughters in the 18th. the rest are right, convincing evidence Tat.- mon. there is no yoke in Russia
  38. marline
    marline April 17 2018 17: 18
    +2
    Quote: tyu22
    Stupid and primitive forgery.
    But if we call Tartars Tatars, and their nickname among the Greeks, a mogul (tall, long) is transformed into a Mongol, then it rolls. Moreover, if you collect family books throughout Russia (under pain of the death penalty, by the way), and then burn them all, then the case will clearly have a good future.
    And for a snack, of course, you can call Muscovy Russia. Yes, and a saint. So that no one would have guessed at all.
    Those. there was not even a forgery. There was a falsification of real historical facts. Falsification of their interpretation and substitution of concepts. Very subtle, I must say, "work." Apparently Germans historically known by their last names received rather strong money for it.

    This is called the Dunning - Kruger effect.
    As for the fraud, interpretation and substitution of concepts - this is part of historical science.
    Here you have your own interpretation of those events, there is an official one. If you compare them, then the official one is certainly not a fountain, but it "works" better.
    Do not be offended, I even understand you, your opponent, Proxima, in the next branch in general, “halved” the whole population of Russia, and a certain lieutenant generally told about 90% ...
    1. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 33
      +1
      history, like any science, has its own rules of the game: you can put forward any most insane idea, but only it must be supported by facts. as Mr. Ford-1 said, you can order a Ford of any color, provided that it is black
      1. marline
        marline April 19 2018 15: 35
        0
        Quote: Nixarov
        history, like any science, has its own rules of the game: you can put forward any most insane idea, but only it must be supported by facts. as Mr. Ford-1 said, you can order a Ford of any color, provided that it is black

        KO?
  39. Scand1101
    Scand1101 April 17 2018 17: 19
    +2
    It is unfortunate that the Topwar site allows the publication of such pseudo-historical articles. So you can slide down to articles on a flat Earth. All the same, I would like to see more serious things, and not different nonsense
    1. nixar
      nixar April 18 2018 18: 38
      +1
      on the contrary, it is very useful: 1) the knowledge of true history is itself invaluable; 2) attitude to history, interpretation of events allows you to decide on life. the position, "to separate the goats from the sheep"; 3) understand that truth is not always the opinion of the majority (and even the presidency)
  40. kan123
    kan123 April 17 2018 17: 27
    0
    How could the Livonian Order, or the Pole King, Hungarian, papal people, capture Russia? In the first they were relatives - legal princes, the same as they were in Italy, or Scandinavia. De jure they were "in law", and de facto Russia could not be captured, with all desire. The orders were colonized along the coast, with support from the water, and to Russia it was useless to meddle, since it was all hovering across the rivers, some hundreds of meters wide. It was not taken in any way. Batu Khan invented a mockery of his Uzbeks - winter companies that no one in the world conducted, never - in the winter the army went to apartments. And in winter, Batu, as he walked along the M4, all the crops were harvested, all by the huts, as a holiday and not life.
    Secondly, there were no "Rus" in the sense of the people. There was - servants, - Slovenes, Slovenians, Krivich, all, squeeze, Vyatka, etc., ugrofins Udmurt Mordovians, etc., and sobsno - gentlemen Rusy - Rurik with his brother. The servants = slaves, they laid down in these "brutal" battles, maybe a couple more mercenaries from Lithuania, - "the lords fight - whoever has their forelocks cracking" - or what about the Russians? They could have “fought” there for years, they supposedly had fun, chasing war games - no TV needed. So they were celebrated, danced. Batu Khan taught these clowns, and sovr. there were no fortifications and statehoods, only Ruriks, and generally the princes of that breed, in Russia, to check it out - they cleaned everyone out, mixed them with the Chukchi, all these nobles, according to the Batu’s precepts.
  41. solzh
    solzh April 17 2018 17: 36
    +1
    tyu22
    if we call the Tartars Tatars, and their nickname among the Greeks, the mogul (tall, long) is transformed into a Mongol, then it rolls. For some reason, no one ever thought, but what do Tatars and Mongols have in common?

    The name "Tatars" was given by the Chinese - as they called the warlike northern tribes, which for centuries have troubled them, attacking the northern outskirts and ruining the settlements. And it was from Chinese literature that the word "Tatars" penetrated into Iran, into the East and further into Russia and Europe.
  42. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 18: 03
    +2
    Quote: kan123
    Batu Khan taught these clowns, and sovr. there were no fortifications and statehoods, only Ruriks, and generally the princes of that breed, in Russia, to check it out - they cleaned everyone out, mixed them with the Chukchi, all these nobles, according to the Batu’s precepts.

    And wipe Bat’s ass too? or are we all of these “kind of descendants”, and in our country I’ll look, each screwed up person considers himself a descendant of the Mongol Tatars, and in the evenings in the kitchens they broadcast wet stories to each other. So maybe we ENTih warriors taught us not to wipe our ass with our hands? Yes, in addition to everything, they gave everything that a civilized person is entitled to? Not? Otherwise, they would have sat in their yurts and wiped their ass with their hands, but dumplings chewed with koumiss while drinking. Mlyn civilizers were found.
    1. kan123
      kan123 April 17 2018 19: 18
      0
      Ethnos was not injured - sobsno all went north, there was a desert, and Batu began to withdraw troops, there was nothing to feed them, and to call on the princes, under whom the collective farmers were returning, because their land was already ready, and under the princes they were ready plow. But only under the princes, and under the "filthy" they refused at all. Then Batu bequeathed to bring all the princely families, and the grand ducal ones - to assimilate by forced marriages on the pegs. The problem of Grozny was that he was, maybe the most Russian Tsar, but a mug, like Viktor Tsoi. These are historical facts that after the Horde, there was not a single princely family in Russia - they all went to the "boyars" to be traders, so that their horde would not repress. These same merchants also raised an uprising in the Time of Troubles, and the time of troubles was caused by the absence of legal princes - they were invited from Poland, but in general the people turned out to be there - and who was chosen to be king? In addition to the merchants of the Romanovs, no one was found on the throne of Russia.
    2. Hantengri
      Hantengri April 17 2018 19: 38
      0
      Quote: Varyag77
      So maybe we ENTih warriors taught us not to wipe our ass with our hands?

      Not by hand. They, in places, are still wiped with a pebble, or with a clay spool. laughing
  43. bunta
    bunta April 17 2018 19: 36
    +2
    On the one hand, another distortion of Gumilyov’s theory or misunderstanding. On the other hand, this is an extra confirmation of his innocence.
  44. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 19: 46
    +2
    Quote: kan123
    Ethnos was not injured - sobsno all went north, there was a desert, and Batu began to withdraw troops, there was nothing to feed them, and to call on the princes, under whom the collective farmers were returning, because their land was already ready, and under the princes they were ready plow. But only under the princes, and under the "filthy" they refused at all. Then Batu bequeathed to bring all the princely families, and the grand ducal ones - to assimilate by forced marriages on the pegs. The problem of Grozny was that he was, maybe the most Russian Tsar, but a mug, like Viktor Tsoi. These are historical facts that after the Horde, there was not a single princely family in Russia - they all went to the "boyars" to be traders, so that their horde would not repress. These same merchants also raised an uprising in the Time of Troubles, and the time of troubles was caused by the absence of legal princes - they were invited from Poland, but in general the people turned out to be there - and who was chosen to be king? In addition to the merchants of the Romanovs, no one was found on the throne of Russia.

    It's just all gold on marble. In one piggy bank to the "alternative imperishable."
  45. Varyag77
    Varyag77 April 17 2018 19: 49
    +3
    Quote: bunta
    On the one hand, another distortion of Gumilyov’s theory or misunderstanding. On the other hand, this is an extra confirmation of his innocence.

    Come on, you really do. Gumilyov’s theory of the symbiosis of Russia and the Steppe will not stand up to criticism. Over the millennia, nothing has changed. There is too little in common in every sense between the sedentary European people (and the Russians are certainly Europeans) and the Asian nomadic so that they can coexist normally. Different priorities and values ​​are different. Paraphrasing one famous proverb "What is good for the Russian is death for the steppe"
  46. Servisinzhener
    Servisinzhener April 17 2018 21: 48
    0
    This article is a place in the Opinions section, not History.
  47. G.K
    G.K April 18 2018 01: 35
    +2
    From this article it follows that the Mongols were a quiet and helpless tribe. Apparently the Chinese were foolishly fencing themselves off from the "quiet" neighbors by the Great Wall. Author, you.
    1. 135lm
      135lm April 18 2018 07: 08
      +2
      Yes, yes))) Let him tell the Chinese that there were no Mongol invasions. Like the Manchu. Qing dynasty is a myth invented in the Vatican?))) Let him tell many how the "poor, primitive and worthless" barbarians crushed the great empires.
    2. Net
      Net April 18 2018 08: 28
      +3
      You’d better tell who it was that Genghis Khan was defending with defensive ramparts - 2300 km and 550 km long, much north of the Great Wall. And how the Chinese built the Great "Chinese" wall a thousand kilometers north of their border (South Sun) on the territory of three (!) Or more hostile states.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  48. 1970mk
    1970mk April 18 2018 08: 10
    +1
    ". The Rus of Kiev, Galich, Polotsk, Novgorod, Suzdal and Vladimir were killed, robbed, taken to the same place as the" Mongols "would do later." - RUS? And there were Rus? Can you name the source of your statement like this? Sleep?
    "The Russians were supposedly a" wild "tribe," - but were the "Russians"? So someone called himself?
    The bottom line is enough fantasy to spread here!
  49. Rafal Vahitov
    Rafal Vahitov April 18 2018 09: 25
    0
    The Mongol-Tatar yoke was invented by Russian historians in order to hide and subsequently justify the genocide of the Tatars of the Wild Field.
    1. Mavr-85
      Mavr-85 April 19 2018 19: 03
      0
      And you REALLY believe in that ?!
  50. The comment was deleted.