Military Review

Will the T-90M America's best tank win?

56
For a number of reasons, currently the main way to develop the fleet of armored vehicles is the modernization of existing combat vehicles, while completely new Tanks appear extremely rarely. In this regard, it makes sense to evaluate modernized machines of known types. In addition, tanks updated for the latest projects can be compared with each other. This is exactly what one of the authors of the American publication The National Interest did in his recent article.


14 April edition has published a new article with the traditionally loud title of “The T-90 Is Dangerous Weapon. Could It Beat America's Best Tank in Battle? "(" Russian T-90 - Dangerous weapon. Will he be able to win the best tank of America in a battle? ”). As the title suggests, the author of the article, Charlie Gao, tried to compare the latest combat vehicles of the Russian armed forces and the American army. The newest model of modernized Russian-made equipment “participates” in this comparison, and therefore it is of particular interest.

His article Ch. Gao begins with a reminder of the features of the current situation. Tank T-14 "Armata" should become the newest and best tank in Russia, but it is still far from service in the army. In order to reinforce the existing armored forces in anticipation of the “Almaty”, Russia is engaged in the modernization of existing types of tanks, such as T-90. It was recently announced that four dozen such tanks are already being upgraded by the T-90M project, and will be handed over to the customer in the near future.



Ch. Gao compares the Russian modernization project with the American M1A2 SEP v.3, which also provides for an increase in the technical characteristics of the equipment through the installation of a set of new equipment. At the same time, unlike him, while there is no information on the supply of finished samples of T-90M. Remembering the American design, the author asks the question: how to compare two new “pumped” tanks?

The author believes that the new T-90M, unlike the previous Russian tanks, has almost all the features characteristic of modern foreign technology. Machines of past models had a combined day / night commanding sights, while there was no separate system for night work. Now the commander is invited to use your own PK-PAN sight. The gunner also has its own Sosna-U sight with a night channel. There is reason to believe that French Catherine matrices are still used in these instruments. Information about the equipment T-90M sights with thermal modules "Irbis-K" has not yet been received.

The sights of the commander and gunner are connected to the general fire control system, which provides some important opportunities. In particular, the commander, having discovered the target, can “transfer” it to the gunner. According to Russian sources, this opportunity was first implemented on a tank for the Russian army. At the same time, as noted by Ch. Gao, such a function has been present for a long time by the fire control systems of foreign tanks.

Previous modifications of the T-90 were completed with dynamic protection of the “Contact-5” type. In the new project it is replaced by the newest system "Relic". In addition, a kind of mesh or other screen is located on the lower surfaces of the tower and complements the dynamic protection units. This allows you to increase the resistance of the tank to cumulative ammunition. The author of The National Interest notes that in the first photos of the T-90M tank in this area were lattice screens. Later, starting from the autumn of last year, there appears a mesh screen. The grilles are also installed on the aft of the hull, which reduces the risks to the power plant.

There is information according to which in the future T-90M tanks will receive a new “reactive armor” of the “Malachite” type, but images of a combat vehicle with such dynamic protection have not yet been published. Probably the first serial T-90M will not receive such funds.

According to official data, the project T-90M allows you to get an increase in the accuracy of the main gun. However, this feature still uses the 2A46 family system. On the roof of the turret, above the commander’s workplace, there is now a remote-controlled installation with an 12,7-mm machine gun. This product is noticeably higher than previous T-90 tank systems. Ch. Gao believes that, in terms of its capabilities, the Russian combat module is approximately equal to the American systems of the CROWS family.

The upgraded tank retains sensors warning of laser irradiation, and, probably, still carries smoke grenade launchers from the system "curtain". In this case, the spotlights of this complex, resembling peculiar eyes, are removed. According to various estimates, the searchlights were removed due to their low effectiveness in countering modern anti-tank missile systems. At the same time, the active protection “Afganit” developed for the T-14 tank can be used as a new means of increasing survivability. However, as in the case of Malachite, there is still no evidence of the implementation of such proposals.

Ch. Gao notes the improvement in ergonomics in comparison with the previous Russian tanks. In particular, the habitable compartments are now serviced by new air conditioners. The department of management was modernized in order to improve the convenience of the driver. Instead of quite sophisticated in the development and use of levers, traditional for Russian tanks, a compact steering wheel is now used, similar to the equipment of M1A2 tanks. Also T-90M is equipped with a new control system with a self-diagnostic function and improved radio stations.

As the author recalls, the American project M1A2 SEP v.3 provides many innovations similar to those used in the Russian T-90M. As part of this modernization, the Abrams tank receives some improvements to the hull and turret, third-generation thermal imaging equipment in the sights of the commander and gunner, as well as a modified combat module CROWS. It is curious that the machine gun installations of the new type differ from the previous ones in smaller sizes, whereas in the Russian project T-90M a larger product is used.

The M1A2 tank in the SEP v.3 modification retains the existing 120-mm smooth-bore gun. At the same time, a new data channel appears in the fire control system, providing work with modern projectiles of several types. In particular, the M829A4 APFSDS shot can now be used to increase the combat potential. The American project involves the installation of an active protection complex Trophy. Finally, like the Russian design, it offers an upgrade of onboard communication and control systems.

The author of The National Interest believes that in their armament the two newest tanks of the leading countries are approximately equal to each other. The ammunition proposed for use by the M1A2 SEP v.3 project is referred to as a serious innovation, but similar possibilities with projectile programming before the shot were already implemented in one of the Russian projects. Back in the early nineties, the T-90K tank received an Ainet projectile with similar features.

The combat performance of the shells of the two tanks can also be similar. It is claimed that the American product M829A4 is capable of striking tanks with dynamic protection of the third generation, which includes the Relic system. Lattice and mesh screens designed to protect against shaped projectiles, will not be able to hold sub-caliber feathered ammunition.

Ch. Gao believes that the S-Lead armor-piercing shells in service with the past decade, but showing rather high characteristics, remain in the T-90M ammunition. Also, the tank retains the ability to use guided missiles "Invar", to launch which uses a standard weapon. The American tank M1A2 never had such an opportunity, although in theory it is capable of using Israeli-designed LAHAT missiles compatible with its gun.

In the field of observation, according to Ch. Gao, the advantage remains with the American tank. It is completed with a third-generation thermal imaging system of domestic production, while the Russian machine uses imported products. At the same time, T-90М, differing by a smaller combat mass, has a significant advantage in terms of mobility.

The author tried to compare the tanks of two new models in the context of a direct combat collision. He assumes that the presence of Invar guided missiles will not give advantages to the Russian combat vehicle. The tank M1A2 SEP v.3 is equipped with the Trophy active protection complex, which is likely to be able to repel the threat. The Russian rocket flies at a speed of 350 m / s, which corresponds to the capabilities of the Trophy. Moreover, according to the Israeli development company Raphael, the complex is capable of intercepting cumulative projectiles flying at speeds up to 900 m / s.

Getting together in a fight, both tanks are quite capable of inflicting certain damage on each other. Such results, among other things, contribute to the similar accuracy and power of the main armament. Nevertheless, according to Charlie Gao, the crew of the modernized Abrams has more chances to survive. Such survivability should be ensured by placing the ammunition in the aft niche of the tower, which is separated from the habitable compartment by an armored partition and equipped with roof ejection panels. T-90M in this respect corresponds to the traditions of the Soviet / Russian school of tank building. The main part of its ammunition is in the automatic loader and is located on the perimeter of the crew compartment. However, a certain amount of ammunition is now placed in the aft niche of the tower, which is equipped with drop-down panels like the American ones. This led to the fact that the T-90M turret is much longer than the corresponding units of the T-72 or T-90 tanks.

Charlie Gao completes his publication, the purpose of which was to evaluate the latest Russian tank, as well as its comparison with the latest American design, with a simple but logical conclusion. After examining the two newest armored vehicles, he came to the conclusion that the T-90M and M1A2 SEP v.3 would most likely be the winner of a tank with a more experienced and trained crew.

***

At the moment, the T-90M and M1A2 SEP v.3 projects can be considered the most advanced in their field. At present, even the leading developers of armored vehicles are trying to pay special attention to the improvement of existing vehicles, which allows them to maintain the required combat capability of troops at limited costs. The last steps of the United States and Russia in this direction were two projects for the modernization of production tanks M1A2 Abrams and T-90.

According to the latest data, both modernization projects have already been brought to mass production of equipment. So, in October last year, the American industry announced the completion of equipping the first few M1A2 tanks with the SEP v.3 update package. The assembly of the Russian T-90M tanks began in 2018 year. Until the end of this year, the industry of the two countries will have to transfer to the armies several dozen modernized combat vehicles of two types. In the future, work on the two projects will continue, leading to a noticeable renewal of the fleet of vehicles and an increase in the combat capabilities of the army.

According to known data, the last two modernization projects involve the use of various additional means that positively affect certain qualities or characteristics of the base tank. At the same time, as far as is known, certain parameters reach the highest possible level achievable subject to current conditions and restrictions.

Having serious advantages over the predecessor machines and having a number of common features, the upgraded T-90M and M1A2 SEP v.3 can indeed be equivalent combat vehicles. At the same time, it seems that parity in some areas may coexist with advantages or lags in others. Such a situation in which none of the machines has a decisive advantage increases the role of communication and control systems, as well as the importance of crew training. It is quite possible that the findings of Charlie Gao on the margins of a real battle could be confirmed. However, experienced tankers in any case will have a definite advantage over a poorly trained opponent.

Article “Russia's T-90 Is Dangerous Weapon. Could It Beat America's Best Tank in Battle? ”:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russias-t-90-dangerous-weapon-could-it-beat-americas-best-25379
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  1. RaptorF22
    RaptorF22 April 17 2018 06: 12
    +15
    If you shake thieving officials and sell their palaces and expensive cars winked etozh how much Armat can be built wink
    1. okko077
      okko077 April 17 2018 13: 54
      +9
      Another gingerbread for dummies ... How much can I repeat that tanks are not used in modern warfare either in the first or even the second tier !!! It is not necessary to project wars with partisans on a full-scale confrontation in Europe and other regions where there will be Americans in the ranks of the enemy .... tanks at the front line will be successfully destroyed by modern anti-tank weapons. who don’t fall into the area of ​​their return fire ... And Armata will also burn ... Publish similar advertising articles for buyers of our tanks in other countries, why "hang noodles on the ears" to our readers.
      Better talk about the complete absence in our tank units of informational reconnaissance and target designation tools to protect at least from enemy helicopters, about the ability to conduct this reconnaissance and target designation in real time ... Then, and rather after creating such systems, you can evaluate new opportunities and prospects tank attacks ... And so in all the troops .... Our new technology is blind and deaf and does not see the enemy, there is no Combat Information Systems ... Syria showed everything, there is nothing, we can not fight in a new way .... Instead LSI there are spotters - death row from the MTR for target designation .... who suffer losses and receive rewards, and this without ... the ground component ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 17 2018 17: 03
        +5
        Quote: okko077
        tanks on the front line will be successfully destroyed by modern anti-tank weapons. who do not fall into their return fire zone ...

        Which ones?
        1. Evgeny Strygin
          Evgeny Strygin April 19 2018 16: 38
          +2
          do not ask difficult questions. And then so the question of who will replace the tanks will come.
      2. cariperpaint
        cariperpaint April 17 2018 21: 07
        +1
        what nonsense ....
      3. kan123
        kan123 April 18 2018 14: 16
        +8
        Such (still not such) nonsense was launched under Gorbachev - "why do we need these V. S. - they took our entire standard of living, - without these tanks - missiles, everyone would live in Santa Barbara"
        Bombed, and then what? Put sentinels with jeeps on every corner? You would continue the thought, understand how stupid it is. The tank is the main force of the army, and will always remain, and the fact that it is vulnerable in some ways, questions for the engineers, means they have problems, or they need to be changed.
    2. Spook
      Spook April 17 2018 14: 13
      0
      And please introduce to the public a real plan for the implementation of your wishes
      1. okko077
        okko077 April 17 2018 17: 00
        0
        See below my comments, you might understand ....
    3. Petr petrov
      Petr petrov April 18 2018 09: 36
      0
      Only who will do it !!!!! ????
  2. Ber
    Ber April 17 2018 06: 36
    +1
    C. Gao believes that the T-90M ammunition retains Lead armor-piercing shells, which have been in service since the last decade, but which at the same time show rather high performance.


    Will the T-90M America's best tank win?


    If the tower is modified on which, in the event of a collision with America, it will be possible in the field to install the A3 container of the Burlak project, for armor-piercing cores of increased length 900 mm or more. In other cases, what is enough is enough.
    1. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 7 May 2018 04: 55
      0
      I read at one time the statement of an Israeli tanker about the T-72, after the war with the Arabs. T-72 is an excellent car. Managed by an experienced and courageous crew, he can become a mortal adversary. "These are the words of a military officer who encountered in battle with our tanks, under the control of the Syrians and others .... According to tank officers in 87, with whom he spoke in the army, a reliable machine, which the tractor driver was supposed to master in two years, in between jobs, so the same words can be said about the T-90 (except for the words about tractor drivers). hi
  3. Cxnumx
    Cxnumx April 17 2018 06: 37
    +8
    Having studied the two newest armored vehicles, he came to the conclusion that a tank with a more experienced and trained crew would most likely come out of the battle with the T-90M and M1A2 SEP v.3

    we still know from the Second World War when Oskin’s crew on the t-34-85 burned the Royal Tigers)))
    1. Evdokim
      Evdokim April 17 2018 08: 07
      +4
      Quote: K0
      the winner, most likely, will be a tank with a more experienced and trained crew

      Quote: K0
      we still know from the Second World War

      So you need diesel fuel, and ammunition, and drive l / s for days at a landfill. hi
    2. Proxima
      Proxima April 17 2018 11: 23
      +6
      Quote: K0
      Having studied the two newest armored vehicles, he came to the conclusion that a tank with a more experienced and trained crew would most likely come out of the battle with the T-90M and M1A2 SEP v.3

      we still know from the Second World War when Oskin’s crew on the t-34-85 burned the Royal Tigers)))

      Bravo! If anyone does not know, then we are talking about the famous tank battle "thirty fours" with the battalion of the Royal Tigers at Sandomierz bridgehead.
      On August 13, 1944, at 7 o’clock in the morning, the Germans, under cover of dense fog with forces of 11 heavy Tiger II tanks and two armored personnel carriers with infantry, launched an attack on an unnamed height located eastern Oglenduva. On the eastern slopes of this height, Soviet tankmen organized an ambush of two medium tanks. One of them was T-34-85 Guard Lieutenant Alexander Oskin. The tanks lined with shovels of compressed rye resembled haystacks. Oskin allowed German tanks to a distance of only 300 meters, after which he opened fire on them. As a result three "Royal Tigers" were destroyedand the rest decided to turn back. Alexander Oskin, not knowing that new enemy tanks are practically invulnerable, joined the battle with them and left him a winner.
      On my own behalf, I’ll add that with the debuts of the new weapons of the Third Reich on the Eastern Front "some kind of overlap" happens. Take the same The royal tiger, on the Western front, he not only made a splash, but even shocked the Anglo-Americans! belay
      And here is how the Royal Tigers debuted on the Eastern Front, it was already said above. negative
      1. dzvero
        dzvero April 17 2018 17: 34
        +7
        Do not misunderstand me, but according to memoirs, everything was a little wrong. I do not belittle the merits of the platoon of Lieutenant Oskin, but against the Royal Tigers the Soviet command of the station put forward not only the T-34, but also the self-propelled guns plus artillery with Katyushas. They had intelligence about new heavy German tanks, most likely preparing for the attack. Based on the characteristics of the teren, they calculated the tank-dangerous direction and pulled off serious funds. Tigers were caught before deployment, having arranged a fire bag for them. After the battle, it was not possible to determine who actually knocked them out; Lieutenant Oskin was introduced to the title of Hero, however quite rightly. He "played" with a "clockwork tank" and, if unsuccessful, would almost certainly die.
        By the way, the outcome of the battle was logical - in the 45th training and experience of soldiers and commanders, the Red Army markedly surpassed the Wehrmacht.
        Regarding the article - comparing spherical horses in a vacum is somewhat tired. Why do the authors of such opuses not bother to propose realistic situations? For me, such a confrontation bash-on-bash is possible by exception in very specific situations. For example, after breaking through the front, the tank unit of one of the sides enters the operational space, but is drawn into the oncoming battle with the tank reserve, delivering a counterattack. And here is "who - whom by TTX." Could you come up with such a simple preamble ...
        1. Proxima
          Proxima April 17 2018 22: 43
          +1
          Quote: dzvero
          Do not misunderstand me, but according to memoirs, everything was a little wrong. I do not detract from the platoon of Lieutenant Oskin, but against the Royal Tigers the Soviet command of the station put forward not only the T-34, but also the self-propelled guns plus artillery with Katyushas ....

          Naturally, unit in which there is a T-34-85 it includes not only this unit hi
  4. eugraphus
    eugraphus April 17 2018 06: 44
    +9
    It is necessary to squeeze somewhere Abrams to take to the landfill from it shandarahnut on t90, and then mutually from t 90 on Abrams. As in 2MB, the Tiger by t 34, and then by the Tiger. But first, drive the cat and mouse around the tank race course without firing. And draw conclusions.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic April 17 2018 12: 49
      +6
      Quote: eugraphus
      Tiger on t 34, and then on the Tiger.

      But nothing that the classes of cars are different?
      If we compare the IV-ku and 34-ku, or is it immediately clear that the comparison is not in favor of the poor?
      In general, the Tiger is propiarious to the point of amazement; they were released in the Reich for less than a thousand and a half, and there is a mention of them in each barrel directly. The same IVs are of the order of 9, and how much are they talking about.
  5. raw174
    raw174 April 17 2018 07: 14
    +5
    What is the point of these comparisons? there will be no duel in battle ... Punk needs to be protected from anti-tank systems and airstrikes. Whether the T-90 can resist Javelin, here's the question!
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov April 17 2018 09: 24
      +6
      Quote: raw174
      What is the point of these comparisons? there will be no duel in battle ... Punk needs to be protected from anti-tank systems and airstrikes. Whether the T-90 can resist Javelin, here's the question!

      There will be no duel in battle. Can the "Javelin" resist the Russian artillery, that's question 8)))
      1. raw174
        raw174 April 17 2018 09: 58
        +3
        Quote: Spade
        Can the "Javelin" resist the Russian artillery - this is question 8

        can our artillery defend themselves against their missile defense and aviation? wassat
        But if you return to the tanks, then you first of all need to save them from the KR and anti-tank systems, you can not compare with other tanks ...
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov April 17 2018 16: 04
          +8
          Quote: raw174
          can our artillery defend themselves against their missile defense and aviation?

          Easily.
          Artillery is located in the zone most saturated with the forces and means of air defense of the battlefield.
          1. Kibb
            Kibb April 17 2018 19: 29
            0
            That is, they will be demolished first
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov April 17 2018 20: 58
              +3
              Tortured to demolish. A modern self-propelled division is not less than 18 separate targets, which are all under the "umbrella" of air defense. Moreover, each of the goals changes its location after each short fire attack.
          2. raw174
            raw174 April 18 2018 06: 15
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Easily.
            Artillery is located in the zone most saturated with the forces and means of air defense of the battlefield.

            The main thing is not to be protected by the largest hat ...
  6. KVU-NSVD
    KVU-NSVD April 17 2018 07: 29
    +7
    Serious analysis cannot be reduced to evaluating the duel of two samples. A comparison of motorized rifle or tank brigades (regiments) would be more revealing. Given the inherent support forces (estimated), of course .. Everything else from the evil one, from nature, from the time of the year .. and so on and so forth ... And the tank duel (and any other possible) is won (in my opinion) by 90 % of people (with comparable technique of course), their ability to impose their rules, training, personal qualities, etc., etc. .. Although not far off the war of "smart" systems .. and there the rules will certainly change ..
    1. Soho
      Soho April 17 2018 08: 25
      +3
      A comparison of motorized rifle or tank brigades (regiments) would be more revealing

      Do not confuse tactics with weapons capabilities. The ability to detect the enemy earlier, hit him at a distance not accessible to his weapons, and even more likely than he is, is one of the most important criteria in assessing the combat potential of a vehicle. And people should really realize this potential.
      1. KVU-NSVD
        KVU-NSVD April 17 2018 08: 43
        +2
        Quote: Soho
        Do not confuse tactics with weapons capabilities. The ability to detect the enemy earlier, hit him at a distance not accessible to his weapons, and even more likely than he is, is one of the most important criteria in assessing the combat potential of a vehicle.

        It is the tactic of application, taking into account the capabilities of the potential enemy, that is the basis of victory and survival in a local battle. The potential of weapons and military equipment is only one of the foundations of such a battle. This was a summary of what I was taught in the tactics class.
        1. Soho
          Soho April 17 2018 08: 53
          +1
          Yes, no one pleads the importance of tactics! But one tactic is not to win the battle. Otherwise, what is the constant development of weapons for? Why did we need to adopt the expensive Su-57, with all its bells and whistles? Well, somehow they would have bypassed the old Su-27. Well, Bars does not allow in time to detect the enemy and make an attack on him, well, okay ... we’ll come up with some tactical trick .... so it turns out?
          1. KVU-NSVD
            KVU-NSVD April 17 2018 09: 08
            +3
            Otherwise, what is the constant development of weapons for?
            Improving the individual characteristics of individual samples leads to the tactical superiority of the units equipped with them. If the unit has a number of new models, but the basic level of armament is the same, then the unit will not become more dangerous. The main purpose of victory is in arming and training large arms of this armament and in coordinating various types of troops on the battlefield. In general, a well-coordinated team with a uniform technique and tactics over an unstable team with a variety of parks and arsenals will win. Even if the second arsenal will be partially "tricked out". The bells and whistles are interesting in coordinated work on the battlefield in a single gamut with the entire unit.
            1. Soho
              Soho April 17 2018 11: 21
              +3
              Why are you striking into beautiful words? Well-coordinated team, tactical superiority .... where have you seen this? In fact, this is so: half of the soldiers in your company are not shelled salazhat, P159 died because the batteries live for 2 hours, you are not sent under fire and the battalion commander didn’t even bother to warn the command about the raid, and the artillery threw cucumbers not against the enemy , but for you ... Where did you see the "well-coordinated brigades"? Afghanistan? Chechnya?
            2. Orionvit
              Orionvit April 17 2018 14: 03
              +1
              I remember in the mid-60s, when the BMP-1 was adopted for service, it was generally a new class of equipment that did not fall under any classification. And not a tank, and not an armored personnel carrier. And yet, when the Americans got a copy of themselves, drove it at their training grounds (as part of training battles), it turned out that the BMP almost always comes out the winner in fights with any American tanks. It is due to its tactical and technical data. But this is not even a tank. As for the Abrams and the T-90, the same thing, they are completely different as well as the tactics of their combat use, well, maybe their guns are comparable. By the way, “Abrams”, as one well-known character used to say, “they burn for a sweet soul.”
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov April 17 2018 09: 36
        0
        Quote: Soho
        Do not confuse tactics with weapons capabilities. The ability to detect the enemy earlier, hit him at a distance not accessible to his weapons, and even more likely than he is, is one of the most important criteria in assessing the combat potential of a vehicle.

        You contradict yourself. "The ability to detect the enemy earlier" is provided by external means, that is, the very tactics.
        1. Soho
          Soho April 17 2018 10: 38
          +1
          is it true? That is, the sighting and observation systems of the tank with all day and night channels - are they for entourage? And if there is no data from "external means", then how? Run ahead of the tank like in the movie "Come on, Maleshkin, well done Maleshkin! Push, Maleshkin!"?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov April 17 2018 16: 08
            +3
            Quote: Soho
            is it true? That is, the sighting and observation systems of the tank with all day and night channels - are they for entourage?

            In fact, yes. Even a company-level infantry RBF will detect an enemy tank earlier. 8 km is not Khukhra-Mukhra,
          2. okko077
            okko077 April 17 2018 16: 21
            +3
            What stone age cave did you come out of? 20 years ago, I would remind you about the concept of modern combined arms combat, about company strongholds .... This is a mystery for many, and for our generals too .... But now they are talking about network-centric approaches in the conduct of hostilities, about position areas, combat information systems ... The gray townsfolk, to whom our General Staff belongs, have no idea .... Recent Gerasimov’s pearl on the development of such
            systems just touches:
            "Work is underway to create an interspecific automated reconnaissance and strike system. Their result should be a 2–2,5 times reduction in the time parameters of the fire task solution cycle — from reconnaissance to target destruction."Just some kind of collective farm !!!
            1. okko077
              okko077 April 17 2018 16: 53
              +5
              But it’s nothing that such systems were developed, developed and have not been developed since 2000 under the presidential program, which provided for equipping the army with them until 2020? ... But nothing that Gerasimov personally adopted such a system at the beginning of the 10s as chairman of the State Commission, called the Unified Management System for the Tactical Link "Constellation-M"? ... The creation of such systems failed, the miserable useless crafts worth billions of rubles rot in warehouses, and the General Staff of the country did not even fully develop the concept of such systems, not to mention the basic principles of them creation !!!
              We are gouged in a non-nuclear conflict in the same way that the Germans defeated the Soviet Union’s many times superior army on their wedges and reached Moscow, only due to new tactics, or rather information systems ... in a modern interpretation ...
          3. Sander113
            Sander113 April 17 2018 17: 45
            +2
            In a collision of more or less large units, tanks are unlikely to detect targets themselves.
            1. Doliva63
              Doliva63 April 18 2018 19: 10
              +4
              Quote: Sander113
              In a collision of more or less large units, tanks are unlikely to detect targets themselves.

              Tin! Immediately visible tanker! laughing
              How many years did they serve in tank troops?
  7. Romario_Argo
    Romario_Argo April 17 2018 08: 51
    +1
    the modernization potential of the T-series tanks, in our case the T-90M is still very high
    the niche under the anti-nuclear lining is still empty (!)
    with ease, you can put panels made of boron carbide 110 mm equivalent to armor resistance 880 mm steel when fired at normal at 90 degrees. + side armor 80 mm = 940 mm
    * Bassoon - resting on the sidelines
    or shelling when hit at an angle of 75 degrees. cumulative equivalent = 1210 mm
    + anti-cumulative side screens
    * Israeli "subcalibers" just cry
  8. san4es
    san4es April 17 2018 10: 23
    +1
    Will the T-90M America's best tank win?
    Oct 2015 hi
  9. sleeve
    sleeve April 17 2018 11: 35
    0
    Price ... Comrade from America (I apologize for having a small) side got around the price of the question? The T-34 was not so hot in comparison with the old one, but cheap and cheerful. But how are things going? To our MO, as I understand it, it costs about 100 million rubles, and another 5-7 a year. And entih peace activists why the struggle itself?
  10. A. Privalov
    A. Privalov April 17 2018 11: 49
    +13
    ... meeting right in the middle of the street, the above-mentioned sages, without even greeting each other, began to furiously discuss the main question of philosophy: Who collects whom - an elephant or a whale?
    Philosophers argued until dark, and in the morning, the stunned citizens saw that the wise men did not retire. So another day passed and another night.
    Onlookers approached and heeded the cleverly twisted aporia, simple but intelligible zeugmas, primitive arguments, elegant tautologies, insane hypotheses, simple theses and antitheses and even ordinary verbal insults.
    On the third day, a compassionate merchant (whose name the ungrateful story did not save) built a small canopy over the disputants, since it was raining.
    It was on this day that the third philosopher, Semulyand, joined Babury and Feson. Fearlessly, he introduced into the fabric of the discussion the so-called “figure of the third superfluous”, proposing to give a palm in the imaginary fight of an elephant against a whale - a giraffe.
    The debaters instantly concluded a temporary truce and attacked the unfortunate with their fists, as a result of which the beaten sage landed in the hospital. Only then did the disputants come to their senses, visited their colleague who had suffered from them, and swore over his bed to consider the fundamental question of philosophy forever unsolvable.
    But the problem has already penetrated deep into the national consciousness. Pleisian nobles and merchants divided into two parties, argued for a very large sum and equipped a test expedition, as a result of which one caught elephant was drowned by a whale's tail blow, and one caught whale was trampled by a successful elephant. Giraffe, fortunately for the latter, failed to catch.
    Only then did the ignorant empiricists reach the whole depth of theoretical science, and they were ashamed and decided to give all the money collected for the construction of the Academy so that no one else would repeat their tragic mistake. Everybody felt sorry for the dead whale and the elephant, they all together despised the giraffe-deserter.
    (Mikhail Ouspensky, from the book “White Horseradish in Hemp Field”)
    hi
    1. Russian jacket
      Russian jacket 7 May 2018 05: 01
      0
      Fair. hi
  11. chingachguc
    chingachguc April 17 2018 14: 09
    +1
    all these conversations are like a fairy tale about a bast-bast ... until in a real battle they converge - it makes no sense to speak.
  12. Kibb
    Kibb April 17 2018 14: 46
    0
    For ten years, the coolest tank was Armata. They sold the T90M to Iraq and suddenly the coolest was the T90M.
  13. Kibb
    Kibb April 17 2018 16: 42
    +1
    Quote: Proxima
    Quote: K0
    Having studied the two newest armored vehicles, he came to the conclusion that a tank with a more experienced and trained crew would most likely come out of the battle with the T-90M and M1A2 SEP v.3

    we still know from the Second World War when Oskin’s crew on the t-34-85 burned the Royal Tigers)))

    Bravo! If anyone does not know, then we are talking about the famous tank battle "thirty fours" with the battalion of the Royal Tigers at Sandomierz bridgehead.
    On August 13, 1944, at 7 o’clock in the morning, the Germans, under cover of dense fog with forces of 11 heavy Tiger II tanks and two armored personnel carriers with infantry, launched an attack on an unnamed height located eastern Oglenduva. On the eastern slopes of this height, Soviet tankmen organized an ambush of two medium tanks. One of them was T-34-85 Guard Lieutenant Alexander Oskin. The tanks lined with shovels of compressed rye resembled haystacks. Oskin allowed German tanks to a distance of only 300 meters, after which he opened fire on them. As a result three "Royal Tigers" were destroyedand the rest decided to turn back. Alexander Oskin, not knowing that new enemy tanks are practically invulnerable, joined the battle with them and left him a winner.
    On my own behalf, I’ll add that with the debuts of the new weapons of the Third Reich on the Eastern Front "some kind of overlap" happens. Take the same The royal tiger, on the Western front, he not only made a splash, but even shocked the Anglo-Americans! belay
    And here is how the Royal Tigers debuted on the Eastern Front, it was already said above. negative

    This is not the Eastern Front, but a training ground, however, not the best tank - a rare shit.
  14. tima_ga
    tima_ga April 17 2018 20: 36
    0
    As for “Instead of the levers that are traditionally difficult to learn and use, traditional for Russian tanks, a compact helm is now being used ...” then in those days many mechanic drivers-conscripts had experience managing construction and agricultural machinery, and now this is a B category V, so that there is a reason at the helm
  15. The comment was deleted.
  16. nikoliski
    nikoliski April 17 2018 23: 56
    -1
    After playing a lot of online games that simulate tank battles (I know that our tankers also love them better than any simulator), I can absolutely say that experienced crews will defeat the enemy, all the same conditions, if they have dummies without real combat experience, whatever was, the Germans having drunk in Europe defeated 5000 of their tanks, the Soviet armada consisting of 41 vehicles in 26000 years! the tactics of flanking coverage, learned from the notes in Europe, helped the Germans defeat the T-41 and KV, excellent for 34 years, by using much worse cars (the clever one won’t go uphill, the smart one will go around, our fans were rushing off to attack, the Germans tried to go into the flanks to surround, to conduct maneuverable duels (the KV tank didn’t penetrate head-on with German cars of that time), here’s the Abrams’ advantage in armor - our guys will go around and burn it on the side, there’s nothing indestructible that was done by human hands, so I think our tank units are nothing and Of course, someone among those 26000 tanks in the Red Army had a lot of different huskies like the BT-7 (although they proved to be quite good against the Japs), but also compare the performance characteristics of German vehicles of 41 years old that didn’t have heavy tanks at all, pz2 with an automatic cannon of 20 mm caliber (this is like giving out a BMP-2 as a tank now) the best thing was that they had a groove of 4 then, but in 41 he had only a short-barreled gun, unable to penetrate either KV-1 or KV2, well-proven in Finnish), everything was decided by the tactics and training of the German crews, we must pay tribute to almost all the warriors who managed to fight almost in the minority, taking only two tigers in Africa, using the cunning and "imbosity" of German cars, to "beat" about a hundred British vehicles! Two tanks! At 45, one Jagdtiger could single-handedly destroy three dozen Shermans by taking the correct position from the impenetrable cabin (250 mm for the time when the armor is 2 meters)
  17. Catfish
    Catfish April 18 2018 00: 57
    0
    Quote: nikoliski
    ... among those 26000 tanks in the Red Army there were many different husks like the BT-7 (although they proved to be quite good against the Japs)


    So it was impossible to look at Japanese tanks without tears of pity. Riveted boxes that can be cracked with a DShK bullet like a nut. repeat

    One of the samples of Japanese miracle technology in Kubinka. The rest is no better. bully
    1. nikoliski
      nikoliski April 18 2018 01: 10
      -1
      It’s very good that our Japanese were scared at Khalkhin Gol, otherwise they would open a second front in 41, we would all speak German (by the way, a German farmer bought a bunch of collective farms in the Voronezh region, organized the holding Eco-Niva Agro and one of our Liskinsky the district produces milk more than 5 other regions of Russia and the German pays I won’t say that 70 machine operators get bad, milkmaids in the region of 000 (the milkmaid is the same name, they hung different electronics on cows, even fans blow them so that the flies do not sit down, otherwise milk yield may fall) We have the Germans by the way stood in the war on the other side of the Don, the grandfather tells the neighbor (he survived the occupation as a boy, now he receives a German pension supplement in the region of 30, a good increase to the main pension), so he tells how the Germans stood, they immediately laid in the literal sense, railways for tanks (steel sheets were bedded in a row for many kilometers) because when we deliver black chernozem in the spring, I even get tracked tractors in the fields t
  18. Doliva63
    Doliva63 April 18 2018 18: 57
    +5
    "In particular, the commander, having discovered the target, can" transfer "it to the gunner."
    On the good old T-62 it was like this - I saw the tank commander a priority target, pressed the right button, the gun turned, and the gunner sees it in the sight. Cheap, fast and reliable, the glory of the Soviet army! drinks
  19. Cannonball
    Cannonball April 21 2018 20: 08
    0
    If you are interested in the question of a potential winner in the alleged tank duel, I advise you to see the tank biathlon, where mostly the same tanks participate, but with crews of different training. It is very clearly shown that there are no ideal tanks. And in modern tanks, like 75 years ago, a lot depends on the crew’s readiness, their experience, coherence, tactical literacy, agility, psychological stability ...
    1. Alecsandr
      Alecsandr 9 May 2018 20: 55
      0
      I completely agree. He served as a mechanic in medium tanks and concluded for himself. In a real battle with enemy tanks, the tactics and training of the crew is of great importance.
  20. the47th
    the47th April 22 2018 16: 33
    0
    And then tanks in recent wars, except tanks, do not fight with anyone, yeah. The T-90 is being modernized with the expectation of protection not from tanks, but from grenade launchers, and the Americans are again riveting a "tank destroyer." The adventures of the Turkish Leopards in Syria should again show that the tank destroyers with the turret are now not much needed.
    I don’t understand why the Americans and other Europeans (ours, too, were led to this) distort so much on the combat station in the stern of the tower? To set fire to a BC located in the rear of a turret from an RPG or ATGM is much easier than to set fire to a BC under a turret. A destroyed BC is a minus tank, even if the rest of the car is safe and sound, and the crew is safe and sound.
  21. oleg13z
    oleg13z 3 May 2018 16: 08
    0
    Dear comrades! And you do not find that the identification marks on our technology (see photo in the article) from far away are very much like American ones? Personally, I really do not like it !!!! (http://army-news.ru/images_stati/aviatsiya_drlo_
    chast_4_2-651x420.jpg)